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Thank you! I’m glad the visual completed the picture, so to speak.

That would be a cool catalog collection. I can dial the pressure back on the ag stuff. Show them at 20/35/55 psi. Might not always get that top end on the bigger stuff, but I can dial it back.

That’s very cool to know. The contractor I worked for in 1986 put in 1,000’s of them from about 1985 to 2000. Nelson just wasn’t showing up nationwide the way Rain Bird did in those years. I think it was Rain Bird’s management and their sales department that made the difference against LR Nelson in those days. I agree the sprinklers were as good. The other thing is LR Nelson was dominant in the hose end market, and I think that division got more than its fair share of company resources.

Yes. The 502, 511, and 521 are all full or part circle. At the same time they made the models 302, 211, and 221 that were only full circle.

Thanks, Dave. I think they were always getting feedback from the field, either through their own outreach or (sometimes angry) phone calls and requests for service. I can remember those sessions with Buckner leadership in the 1990’s as we pressed for a full, modern line of golf rotors.

Thank you! Glad that you’re enjoying it, and I appreciate that you’re watching.

You did a great job showing that incredible collection of yours, Kerry! It’s great to have someone who is even more passionate than me about these things to partner with in preserving the knowledge and memory of these incredible inventions.

The arm or Lever as Buckner referred, is designed to be the same and balanced for both directions, they advertised it to be slow rotating consistent in both directions, this is not always the case. I mentioned above many of the aspects that affect the operation, still a great sprinkler to this day and when they work good they are awesome! The ones you saw were just shy of 70 years old! Glad you enjoy the brass from the past and thanks to Bill for the hard work to present this!

@@kerryvinci5287 Again thank you for your part in this and obviously the huge collection that you have. So do you see any reason for the difference in the speed of the lever from one direction to the other?

Glad you’re enjoying the series! They should run the same speed in each direction. Things happen to the sprinklers over time. They get slightly bent in different places, a bit of material can get knocked off the arm knocking or out of balance. I’ve heard of old-time service guys from Buckner literally shaving the levers a little to make them run correctly again. As you note, thought, they generally run forever. You can see, especially in my collection, that a few of the ones in this video have been through it.

Thanks! Yes, that would be very cool. Kerry has that, in part, at least.

Thanks.... It is fun to be able to have the Rockers in use for sure, but its tough sometimes as there is so many great ol brass sprinklers to display just not enough space for them all to work.

@@kerryvinci5287 yes I understand that. I have so many sprinklers and popups and big guns I live in an apartment and use my friends field for testing and videos and I feel that I could do well with a place of my own like a house where I could get a PTO pump and be able to run my bigger guns like they are intended. What I have right now is decent but I want to be able to test out my 205 Rainbird and P200 like what I see in the fields. I just don't have the room or even a engine to drive it or even a cart to mount it to. maybe some day! You have a nice property there though. It's nice seeing the rockers keeping the water down on the area!

@NelsonBigGunP200Fan you make the most of those opportunities you get. Love it when you fill a garbage can or bin with water to pump out of.

@@antiquesprinklers yes I try. Sometimes I figure I'll try and if it doesn't work, then I learned something! The time I watered my parents roof with the single pump and 51DS and trashcan was funny! Lol

That’s a good question. Could be. They were also expensive to make.

Likely not considered for a rotor, as Buckner already had a very proven rotor with the Cam Drive 1284 series that was out many years before the Rockers Jet; and very well proven for full circle turf use, part circle heads if needed could be riser mounted more easily and not affect turf too much.... also this head was designed to be used for quick coupler manual turf irrigation application as the systems were very economical compared to rotor installations.. These were produced all the way until 1980, although they're popularity fell off with quick coupler systems being converted to rotors and most new installations from the late 60's onward were mostly underground pop up rotors; and by this time Impact rotors were reliable and became the norm, even Buckner's own impact rotors competing against they're proven Cam drive heads. The diameter of the housing would be very large and the bowl always tend to fill with water during operation and would interfere with the counterweight...... It is a cool concept and would be fun to see one!!

I hear that a lot. People getting an interest from seeing them as children. My interest came later, but I know a lot of people who came to them they way you did. I think it’s great.

It is. I think these things are fantastic.

I can honestly say that’s the first time I’ve been asked in my long life. So, I’ve never given it any thought before, but in case it’s a serious question, no, no I don’t.

Very cool.

Good question. The pipe, the valves, sprinklers, etc all vibrate with the motion of water in them.

I can confirm they are different castings. Royal Coach/Buckner had their own foundry at the time and made these in house. Their foundry did a little work for Rain Bird, but that was mostly quick couplers, not impacts. I’m not sure when Rain Bird closed/divested their own foundry (it was called CAMSCO [first initial of the founder Clement , a son Anthony, the wife Mary, and a daughter Sarah] and was opened in 1957). Many companies (not rain bird or Buckner [with the tiniest caveat] used Western Brass as their impacts supplier, and those look identical between brands end-to-end. Buckner did include in the 1990’s and 2000’s the 400SU from western brass and possibly the next-sized-down sprinkler western brass made. So, the 65D as a single nozzle part circle 1” female impact sprinkler and the 10151 as a dual over under nozzle part circle 1” female impact sprinkler are similar looking, but made by two different companies (from at least the point of being chunks of brass and bronze) in two different places.

That’s a great comparison.

Thanks, Dave!

Thanks. My gut is that a company out of Florida called Safe-t-Lawn made if for them back in the 1970’s, but I have no proof of that.

@@antiquesprinklers I certainly cannot confirm or deny this truth. I would love to see a real close up of this sprinkler as it appears to be much like one that I purchased from China. Time will tell.

Thanks!

Thank you!

Agree!

Thanks. I can tell you it took a ton of digging to find the tiny bit of information I did about the company.

I love these stories of homegrown ingenuity. That’s an impressive invention, regardless of whether that is THE invention of that device. It would have to have been early to be close to first, which isn’t impossible. Pop up cam and gear drive rotors were developed in the 1920’s. Rain Bird sold an impact in a can starting in 1940. So, if she’s in her 80’s or 90’s and her dad did it before she was born or, in the case she means just an impact when she was very small, all the biology could work. Could be a prototype for the safe-t-lawn head, as you mention. That would have come along in the 60’s.

Good point! I suspect it was the Florida company Safe-T-Lawn that actually made those.

Thanks! Yeah, JM made those between 1972 and 1979. It’s great that you have one with the JM logo. Buckner and Royal Coach kept using o-rings in their smaller plastic heads in the 1980’s and one day late in the decade I blew each one of them out on a residential system.

@@antiquesprinklers with that plastic flange design I can see why that happened. That old green plastic was a bit brittle as well.

@sprinklercraft yeah, this one was my fault for not pressing the contractor for a pressure reading. The sprinkler casing and internal were basically fine. Somehow we forced a small section of each o-ring up into the cavity of the sprinkler case because we ran them at 120 psi. Even at that it shouldn’t have been possible without breaking something, but these were not the highest quality sprinklers.

Thank you!

Thank you! It would be great to see you run the 250 or their 2” part circle model, the 5910.

For sure. Where you had an elevation change of more than 7’ across a lateral, you’d definitely have no choice but to go external. Not so much an issue on sports turf. Suppose someone could have used these on a large estate where there could have been large elevation changes on a lateral. In block systems on golf courses, where elevation change on a lateral is very common one way we’d combat that was valving high and low sprinklers together where a fairway had a slant to it (that tended to match up watering requirements better, too). You’d still run into changes significant enough between the valve and the sprinklers that would cause you to go with an external check valve. I did a course that way in the side of a “mountain” with some fairways that were tilted like a funhouse. Tee complexes could also have a lot of elevation change on a lateral on block systems.

I’m not sure I feel strongly about one of the modern sprinklers over another. I have I-20’s from Hunter in my yard. They seem pretty durable. When I look at what Rain Bird is doing in the professional residential/commercial market their stuff looks pretty good. I think Hunter and Rain Bird are both excellent, quality-minded companies. Might be because they’re still held by their founding families. For my own house it would have come down to either of those companies, but what matters most is the contractor’s skill. Way beyond what brand of stuff is installed. I’m just a little too disconnected from that market today. 30 years ago I would have had a definitive answer.

If a reference to something out there, it went over my head, but I love the spirit of it. If an actual question, none of the kids who’ve ever called me dad are named Tiffany.

Very cool. I have a Hydrawise at my house. Hydraulically, I can only run one zone at a time. I’m trying hard not to collect vintage controllers, but I do have a couple.

Thank you, Gisbert. I aspire one day to reach the sublime perfection of the least of your efforts.

Thank You, I am glad you are enjoying the tour.... our yard , with sprinklers, plants and rocks is a huge labor of love everything fits together and the main reason for the lushness is definitely the use of good ol Brass Buckner and Rain Bird impact heads, including pop up rotors and sprays: most all Brass the old school way. The grass is Paspallum and mowed at1/4"every 5 days.....its a lot of work.. Rocker Jets are truly a unique head, one of my favorite; I was sad when they didn't make the transition from JM to Royal Coach; not sure why, they were a reliable head of sure, I could only imagine maybe were more difficult to manufacture and the castings had to be more precise.

Thanks! Would love to see how the Gilmour looked and operated. Buckner made a Thunder Jet branded under Febco when they owned them, and their largest rocker jets were sold to and made by Weather Tec for a bit, but otherwise I’d never heard of another brand making one until you mentioned this. It’s one of the things I love about this community. I’m constantly learning new things.

@@antiquesprinklers Something I thought about after I made my comment earlier, and that is why did he make the rotation for the full circle models go in the clockwise direction since it easily could have been designed to go to the left instead. Yes the spring operated sprinklers were already going clockwise, but he did not have to make his go the same way. When he made the part circle models, there basically is no difference in performance from one direction to the other. We consider the counter-clockwise direction as being the reverse direction, when that easily could have been the primary direction and the clockwise direction could have been the reverse direction. Is it all because so many of us are right handed?

@randyvanheusden732 Randy, I would bet somewhere someone has done deeper research into the notion of clockwise as the natural forward direction (though not in races around a track be they by foot, horse, or track), and I would not at all be surprised for it to be related to the dominance of right-handedness. I’ve also learned through the overwhelming accumulation of times I was wrong in my life that there could be something else at work. For instance, would a sprinkler inventor in the southern hemisphere unaware of the work done in the north have made counterclockwise the forward direction? I like that you think about this sort of thing recognizing that even if it was driven by unconscious biases, the direction of travel was probably a choice. <here is where a mechanical engineer comes in and explains why the choice is prefferable>

@@antiquesprinklers So it means there really is no justification to the choice one way or another. But I had to ask.

@randyvanheusden732 I wouldn’t say that, just one I don’t know. I can ask the friend I mentioned in part II. He might have a thought.

Thanks, Dave!

Thank you!

Good evening, The 250 is a beast for sure, we use them for prewatering earth moving projects. that was a diesel powered 4" booster pump being fed from a well you could hear in the video. Also that was a RB 90 running in the background; we frequently use many 80B/C/E impact heads as they are easier to move around in the mud; I also use a couple of 100B if there is an adequate supply of water. The 250 is one of the favorites to use as it has much better range than the 80's and will run a pair of them on 2.5" fire hose normally of a city fire hydrant. I have 6 250's 3 of them work good and one won't work the other two are temperamental.. not sure if Lever is bent, I have messed with adjusting it but don't have the time or patience for figuring it out..... Know that with all the Rockers that I have some of them just do not work well..... The alignment of the Lever and especially the baffle/Blade that intersects the water directly from the nozzle is critical for the alignment and sharpness to cut the water then direct to the reaction spoon for drive and actuate the arm swing; if its off a little sometimes it won't drive strong or will just kind of skip or bounce in the stream of water.

@@kerryvinci5287 Thats' really cool. I enjoyed seeing the footage! Yeah my 205 has bad bearings and the arm has some play in it, it short strokes. But its really old and I kind of expected it. There are others at the dealer i should look and see if theres one with good bearings. I also have a 100B but it's stuck on a cut pipe, i wonder if they could either thread the pipe or weld a slightly smaller pipe onto it that's threaded. We tried to get it off the pipe at the dealer but i just ended up picking the guy up who i was helping. Literally picking him up off the ground with these big pipe wrenches with cheater bars on them. I just have 2 5HP Pacer transfer pumps in series I can run my P200 with a small nozzle. Anyhow. I'd like to get myself a 250 too. The footage you have of them running is neat! Good range! Are those 2" input?

I’ll let Kerry answer, but I seem to recall stainless steel pedestals.

We have 2; both are golf Stainless Pedestal ESP-SAT 40 stations, we have 72 valves mostly RB EA/EFA-CP 075,100,150 about about 25 of them are old school with the good ITT solenoid, a few with the DVA actuator, there is 5 WeatherMatic 8024B brass valves (running the Rockers in the video) and 6 Toro 216 series Brass valves. I normally do not like modern digital computer controllers; I actually have an extensive collection of Elecro-Mechanical controllers from many many manufacturers, many new and unused including the RB RC-12/18/23B....... The Buckner ICM series my all time favorite though. I just didn't have enough complete working units to build a consistent control system and most systems are designed at about 60-75% meter capacity making multiple valve operation at the same time not feasible; and trying to coordinate 4 or 5 separate controllers to not overlap would be an exercise in futility and decided to use the 2 ESP-SAT controllers as it is easier to keep the schedules coordinated between the A and B clock.

Thanks, Kerry! Your collection, amazing system, beautiful setting, encyclopedic knowledge, and passion for the subject all make these collaborations great and a pleasure to create.

Agree. Those are incredibly durable sprinklers. Love hearing someone is using them as intended.

Thanks, Frank! I think that Orr Kerry has steals the show! Glad to hear some folks in the business are getting to see it. Thanks for sharing it!

Thank you! Part II should go up Thursday evening.

Thank you!

Sonnenhut is a great name for those. Sunbathing Cap? Unfortunately, my engineering shortened the life of the swing joint under the quick coupler I use during warm weather as the water source for my videos. So, I had to change sources. Laziness around carrying stuff to the traditional location created the homage to what we call Purple Cone Flowers or more prosaically, echinacea.

You’re probably my right!

Thank you. A complete list of companies that manufactured sprinklers in the US would be much longer than I thought a few years ago.

Thanks!

Thanks, and you are so right!