I have a 2004 Heritage 88 twin cam. I have had the S&S gear driven kit in it for 3 years. For the record the cams do not whine, knock or make funny noises and they will last forever. Between HD and S&S upgrade kits I'll take S&S every time as they have corrected Harley's design and engineering shortcomings forever.
I have a 06 RK and I just removed the Primary cover to have a look. I had a little pitting in the primary shoe but not bad. I do run 100% syn oil and that, I believe, makes a huge difference! I'm going to button it up and not worry about it for another 20k miles.
@@theroadking547 Well, I had that done, and some other work done, all told it was about $2000. But, I think the cost of the parts was $700, plus 2 hours labor (I think they priced it out at), so it was just short of $1000 for that alone. But, like I said, I had a bunch of work done over the winter. Unfortunately, I dont have a garage, and I live in New England, so, I dont do my own work.
I have an 03 Dyna Super Glide with over a hundred and twenty thousand miles on it. I just changed the tensioners tonight. So every engine will wear differently. They were ready for new ones but they lasted a hundred and twenty thousand miles. You don't hear me complaining. I'm going to try to get another hundred twenty thousand.
03 super glide is a beaut. Good to hear. I have a 2002 Low Rider and it’s been a POS for me since I bought it last year. It only has 15,000 miles on it but so many things have gone wrong. Last month was the stator and swing arm bearing. Anyway I’d be very pleasantly surprised if I pull off that cam plate and I have decent looking shoes with little wear. But the fact that you did over 120K on yours gives me a sliver of optimism.
i bought my Super Glide from the original owner with 42,000 miles and had checked via mirror inspection on my last oil change and the original tensioners were fine andmore than likely had another 40,000 miles left on them but i am going on a long trip and decided npt to tempt fate and upgrade to the screaming eagle setup and because i change my oil with synthetic every 2000 miles as did previous owner i feel i am quite safe to go on my trip and i know many might feel changing oil every 2000 miles might be a tad obsessive but remember every engine has some metal pieces in it that is why mose oil drain plugs are magnetic to catch that debree so changing oil is not just for old or failing oil it is for cleaning the engine .everyone especially Harley Haters are quick to say negative comments about Harley but ive owned 46 bikes most of them japanese and onley one Shovelhead ,a ironhead also an evo 1200 Sportster now an o5 Dyna and even my goldwing did not go as far as my Dyna without very expensive work so unless you personally have owned Harley's and actually had experience with them your opinion is useless my Hondas althogh great bikes were ready for rebuilds which were such a pain and expense that I will sell them before going thoigh the time and money to fix them so as far as reliability I would put my Harleys againsat all other brands except my big two strokes because they may have smoked a bit but they were bullet proof
Robbie Gray hey man, the dinos are a tough bike. I have an 03 Dyna Super Glide with over a hundred and twenty thousand miles on it. I just changed the cam chain tensioners tonight and they were ready for it. I might have had another 500 miles before I would have metal on metal. So every engine is different. Some might need it at 50000 some 80,000 some 100,000. If you got yourself a dyna you have a tuff machine. Hang on to it. I would never get rid of mine.
i have a 2000 flhtcui, at 5k i put the chain eliminator, an oil pump upgrade, and a power commander to compensate for the cams. at 70k, its going strong. screw a "factory upgrade" aftermarket is the way to go.
It seems like a no brainer that Harley should have used gears on the back side and the chain on the front. You wouldn't have to rip out the cam chest to change shoes shoes and the front chain would still absorb crank runout. That would be the cheapest and most effective aftermarket solution as well but everyone would rather gamble that gear drive won't destruct from runout or rip out the whole cam chest for that rear shoe.
You can always trust Harley Davidson, the assemblers of "premium motorcycles" to cut corners and reduce quality where ever possible. If they didn't, S&S, Fueling and the others would have gone out of business eons ago. So don't reward these cheap, greedy bozos. Screaming eagle parts are what should be in the motorcycle right from the factory. Don't pay these dips twice! Buy better parts from trusted, reliable manufacturers.
anybody ever had stuck plungers on screaming eagle cam plate upgrade ? the person that did this job put the plunger spring in the wrong way and it was stuck i put it in the right and it still gets stuck when you push it all the way in like something is out of round on the round part of the shoe and the guide .i also pulled the plate and found the rear one was also stuck but it seemed to be in correct and would pry free but when i push it in it still gets stuck this thing has not been run much since they done the kit she was rattling up a storm ,so im going back with stock new ones but what caused the rear one to stick just like the front one any feed is appreciated Peace!
I am so glad I have a new 2017 M8. The cam chain tentioner is just 1 with 1 cam, the single tentioner has a 40k run out ,after that I will install the s&s gear cam kit.
Scott Brown, no not really. HD improved when they changed to the hydraulic system but they are still known to cause problems. They have a very limited amount of travel before they can cock in the cylinder bore and jamb up. This can sometimes lead to a catastrophic failure with the plastic pad actually tearing off and ending up being circulated through your motor in the oil. The only way presently known to eliminate all of these problems is gear drive but HD's loosening of the pinion runout spec to 10 thousandths negates this fix on many engines as thew total allowed run out for gears is only 3 thou. You would have to redo or replace your crank if you fall beyond the 3 thou limit and this is far more costly than most want to spend. The most cost effective fix is to use an improved tensioner like the Zippers Red Shift tensioners or equal. Due to the dual piston design, these units are far less likely to cock in the bore and sieze. They also have a slightly greater wear surface for a longer life span. Just sayin.......
Didn't ya hear me screaming "shut that fucker down" at 10 secs in..... I can't believe ya let that run on with that metal on metal racket..dam. Clearly it was time to get out the wrench..
I have a sportster and it isn't a top fuel dragster but I just did the saddle sore 1000 on it🖒 1060 miles in 22 hours 19 minutes. Iron Butt association. It's a 2016 sportster iron 883. So If you want a fun little cruiser with not big twin problems, maybe take it into consideration.
No bad for being on a girl bike. After 60 years of riding on a pretty much daily basis I'm sure I have well over a million miles under my belt. The early years on a hydraglide... not exactly a comfortable bike. I like the old sportsters and had a 67 XLH that was a really good bike. Could have used a fifth gear though.
Putting the upgrade kit is great, but I have an 04 Harley Davidson Electra Glide Classic flhtci with a Salvage Title so I just went with the OEM Replacement Tensioners, I did buy the outer chain since that Tensioner was broken on the outside got new needle bearings gasket kit all o-rings wish me luck they wanted $2880 to do the Harley upgrade kit, Bike had 30,000 miles on it 10,000 when I got it,I have always used 20/50 Synthetic in all 3 places. If I get another 30,000 I will be happy. Depending on what kind of price I get buying all my own stuff. Plus they always want to fix every other thing they can find. I told only do Tensioner Job & change oil we will see what it's gonna cost now. Labor is $110 an hour. It was going to be 7 hours for the upgrade job. Ranman
Ouch !!!- Yeah did the screaming eagle switch out: Hydraulic plate High out put oil pump. 47000 on the clock- Threw in a set of Cvo 253 “103” cams fer given too. And wella!!!- Quiet and mid range pulls like freight train !!!- F-n epa cams !!!-
Great video! Harley Davidson should be giving EVERYBODY that owns a tc88 this kit. Why should we be paying for this because Willie G. has a bunch of ignorant ass engineers coming up with bull shit like spring cam chain tensioners.Thank GOD for S&S, or harley would have been out of business years ago!!!!!
To all: Look guys, use the parts you want to use. I’m just explaining options and the ones that I like. However like all manufactures, parts can and do fail at some point. Anyone can go back and reengineer something better, even hd on their own part so don’t be so quick to disrespect hd. Ya know it seems some people that ride and love hd, at the same time hate hd for being a manufacturer and making parts, especially when someone else comes out with a better part and it’s like their pissed at the manufacturer for making a less superior part. As if hd knew the part was going to fail in the first place. I think that some just like having something to bitch about so they feel cooler about themselves by down talking the motor company. If you don’t like hd then quit riding them and go buy a something else but do not down talk hd and certainly don’t do it on this video; that is not unless you can tell me about another American made , American based motorcycle brand that makes better looking, sounding motorcycle that never breaks down, never has recalls on parts , never needs more than an oil change, runs forever, or that has been around for over a hundred years and stood the test of time. They are the manufacturer, designer, and engineers building these things and every other company comes up with parts to make them better ,following HD’s lead.
Look I have watched dozens of HD video's and from this, in my opinion HD is probably the worst motorcycle ever. For 28 to 30 thousand dollars to buy a piece of crap like these motorcycles is highway robbery. My 1964 Royal Enfield is a thousand times better than any HD ever produced. The modern Royal Enfield's are crap just like HD so do not buy one of these ever, never ever. I do not know what is going on in this modern world when engineers can not design a motorcycle that will last more than 40,000 miles. It is just soul destroying to see people being ripped off like this. My Royal Enfield may not be the fastest motorcycle around but it gets lots of respect, goes where I want it to and if something goes wrong it is so simple I can fix it myself so I never have to go near a money grubbing dealer ever. This is what makes a good motorcycle a truly great motorcycle.
Is it okay to put a new cam chest and oil pump on a 103 that has done 30,000 miles? and would it be advisable to change the inner cam bearings at the same time?
I had a problem with the 26035-99B Part and the Harley Repare Shop installed the 25284-11. In my view this new Part is the same showed in this video, am I correct in this? In my understand the engine will be a better performance to the oil system. And the coil tensors was changed to hydraulic parts, am I sure? I am owner of Harley Heritage Softail - 2003/03 - 100th Anniversary Model. Thanks and best regards.
I just installed feuling 525 cams camplate oil pump lifters and pushrods on my 01 RK. Due to some confusion and wrong parts shipped, I went with the spring loaded tensioners instead of the hydraulic ones I wanted. The problem is the primary tensioner has been replaced twice in less than 2000 miles. The secondary looks fine. The primary one is from Dennis Kirk and the secondary is J&P because J&P was out of stock both times on the primary. What could be causing the fast wear of the primary tensioner? Also my bike is now running hot. There is a lot of noise in my rocker boxes and the bike blew a lot of oil out the air intake and front cylinder exhaust pipe. The bike ran perfect before this work was done.
Could be a lot of things but the first thing I'd look at is the cam sprocket timing. Could be off a tooth. As to the tensioner wearing out almost immediately..... no thoughts on that except that it must be way too tight. Go with the hydraulics!
Twin Cam engines all come with a pressed together crankshaft, which can twist out of true, therefore, installing metal gears for cam operation is not much of a solution on these engines, without first fixing the crankshaft, taking it to a performance specialty shop to true it up and balance it and weld the halves together, properly to attain a max run out of 0.001".
All the concern about pressed cranks on t/c doesn't really come into play if you ride normally. Unless you're constantly dropping the clutch and going from no load to full load doing stationary burnouts, the stresses applied under normal conditions won't effect. Heck, even a rolling burnout won't inflict much of a problem.
hey when you getting the Screamin Eagle hydraulic upgrade kit do you get new inner and outer bearings with the kit and are the bearings already pressed into the support plate? thanks..
Why use HD parts...their parts and engineering failed the first time...am I missing something here? S&S always appears to come up with a better product before HD is aware of the problem...perhaps not wanting to aknowledge their failure...but ....wouldn't you rather support a company that does it right the first time...
so he says gear drives whine , yep, but the gears dont whine nearly as loud as i would having to replace a motor. And really guys, the pipes on mine drown out the gear whine anyway. Harleys are neither quiet or stealth, its a cornucopia of noise, whats a little gear whine among friends? his periodic checks are 600$ a pop at YOUR expense every 15 k miles if its pre 06.
Rod X thank you for your input. the “Noise” is 1. A red flag for most techs and good ones will bring up having them checked if that noise present because it usually is how bad cam chain tensioners sound in the early stages. 2. The whine, or one of the many other noises an h-d produces are serious concerns for most riders and many times why a rider will bring his bike in to have it checked. Now each rider is different and some may accept some noise where others can’t stand it. Really the gear drives sound pretty close to an Evo engines cam noise. Depends on the individual rider. 3. The check shouldn’t cost anywhere near 600 bucks. The check involves removing the exhaust and cam cover and should be somewhere around 1 and 1/2 hours labor and a the price of a cam cover gasket and a exhaust gasket ( each dealer is different check with your shop)..provided everything is stock or close to it and there is no damage. Now if there is damage inside then cost will vary. 4. The cam tensioner check every 15k miles is not accurate either. Once replaced with the new tensioner system I would recommend checking every 100k. Back to costs.Cost of the gear drive system is more expensive, can require grinding out the inside of the cam cover for clearance and can be even more expensive if your out of spec on the crank runout. The gear drive cams don’t include a new oil pump either. H-D only supports H-D products. For these reasons I recommend the S.E. Hydraulic kit. Now personally I really like the gear drive systems and it is probably the best option but it is also an overkill solution and the most expensive solution for most riders. Disclaimer: I no longer represent the dealer in the video but am happy to help anyone with any questions they have. Thanks
HD should have bitten the bullet and fixed this problem...instead they went the low road and came up with a fix...which we have to pay for for failed engineering. ++ for them because now they get to make money on parts too and they don't have to fix anything.
I agree, HD should have had a recall for the shoddy design on the tensioners. But like most motorcycle companies, it is buyer beware. I replaced mine with the screamin eagle kit, it looks to be well engineered and well built and much cheaper than the aftermarket ones.
yelorsirhc hey man. Every engine on a Harley is different. I have a Dyna Super Glide 03 with over a hundred twenty thousand miles and I just changed the cam chain tensioners tonight and they were ready for it. Somewhere out at 50000 and some 80 and some 100 hundred. It's just one of those things. If you own a bike and work on it yourself, and if you don't know how to learn, you just have to check into these things. Again every engine is not the same and will not wear the same.
twcaldwell1951 I got to over a hundred and twenty thousand miles on mine. I just changed them tonight and going to try to get a hundred and twenty thousand more.
jason07770 that's kind of a problem... Assembly line procedures and quality control in manufacturing should ensure every engine is not different. They should all be the same.
yelorsirhc well I guess quality control was on their job on mine. Like I said I got a hundred and twenty thousand miles and some only get 50 or 80 thousand. But mine has been well taken care of with oil changes and maintenance at the right time.
I believe 2006 dyna series had the hydraulic tensioners and also the ("bicycle") newer style chains, (which have a smoother outer surface, hence less aggressive ware on tensioner). The softail tc range didn't get the change untill '07. The earlier chains can have the outside surface polished, like a jewellers polish. This reduces abrasion and will help extend life of the tensioners.
I ride a 2006 electraglide standard FLHTI. 43000 miles and the cam shaft tension pads are like new, hardly any wear. I bought new pads, and new push rods to do this job. What a waste of time and money. This is alot of crap. Maybe I change my oil and do not beat the shit outta my harley. Are most harley riders idiots? Never change the engine oil and wind the engines up excessively??
my 30k check up, (at the dealer) and inspection of the tensioners appeared to be fine. the dealer never mentioned to install any over priced update kit... 41k the tensioner broke 75 miles from home, no indication, never any trouble. (2002 CVO Roadking) now a little over $2k and it should be fixed. an issue that HD always knew existed.
Question, if replace my cam tensions on my 04 RK with gear on gear and I am within spec. Can I replace my standard oil pump with the screaming eagle oil pump on the existing cam plate? Any help is much appreciated ...thanks
Hi Stan, Usually you will be within spec on the 04 however the runout on the pinion gear should be checked, don't just assume it's good. If it is out of spec and you do use gear drive it could cause major damage so please check it first. I don't see h-d offering a stand alone oil pump and I would not recommend trying it. I have used the stand alone oil pumps from Fueling in the past and they are very good. I also see S&S is making one now that i'm sure would work well also. Thanks for the question, and if you have any others feel free to ask. thanks, Jeremiah
How do you check the runout on the crank? I'm considering an S&S 97" Big Bore kit on my 06 Super Glide. If I'm going to have to strip the bike down anyways, I'm really considering swapping out the chain drive cams to the S&S gear drive with a new cam.
kep67 sorry for the late reply. The pinion gear runout is checked with a speciality tool or by affixing a dial indicator onto the engine with the tip of the dial indicator on the pinion shaft and turning the crankshaft.
Stupid engineers,why not use gear driven cams to start with. Went with them on my 2002 RK after the inner shoe was worn to the metal. I'm almost on the verge of getting away from HD.
Look I have watched dozens of HD video's and from this, in my opinion HD is probably the worst motorcycle ever. For 28 to 30 thousand dollars to buy a piece of crap like these motorcycles is highway robbery. My 1964 Royal Enfield is a thousand times better than any HD ever produced. The modern Royal Enfield's are crap just like HD so do not buy one of these ever, never ever. I do not know what is going on in this modern world when engineers can not design a motorcycle that will last more than 40,000 miles. It is just soul destroying to see people being ripped off like this. My Royal Enfield may not be the fastest motorcycle around but it gets lots of respect, goes where I want it to and if something goes wrong it is so simple I can fix it myself so I never have to go near a money grubbing dealer ever. This is what makes a good motorcycle a truly great motorcycle.
7316bobe I have over 100,000 miles on my Road King with stock chain tensioner that I changed at 98,000 miles to hydraulic and it was not bad. I ride my bikes all over the country from coast to coast and not one of them has ever broke down. As shown here the newer models are better for the chain tensioner and that's why I upgraded my Road King.
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I have a 2004 Heritage 88 twin cam. I have had the S&S gear driven kit in it for 3 years. For the record the cams do not whine, knock or make funny noises and they will last forever. Between HD and S&S upgrade kits I'll take S&S every time as they have corrected Harley's design and engineering shortcomings forever.
tjonessc can you tell me what you bought ? I have 2005 88 twin cam. I want to upgrade before mine goes out
I agree if you can afford it
I’ve been thinking a lot about my 2006’s tensioner’s. Watching this and learning mine has the hydraulic type eased my mind.
I believe only the Dynas have hydraulic in 2006
I have a 06 RK and I just removed the Primary cover to have a look. I had a little pitting in the primary shoe but not bad. I do run 100% syn oil and that, I believe, makes a huge difference! I'm going to button it up and not worry about it for another 20k miles.
I just replaced mine over the winter with this system. I had my dealer do it, but thank you for explaining exactly how it works.
Mr.Bill Reed, what was the price from the Dealer. Just curious. Thanks
@@theroadking547 Well, I had that done, and some other work done, all told it was about $2000. But, I think the cost of the parts was $700, plus 2 hours labor (I think they priced it out at), so it was just short of $1000 for that alone. But, like I said, I had a bunch of work done over the winter. Unfortunately, I dont have a garage, and I live in New England, so, I dont do my own work.
Very thorough explanation of how it works and what happens. Appreciate the detail.👍
Thank you for the detail in what you showed.
Congrats!!! this is one of the best explanations I ever seen of cams worn out!!! Best regards from Mexico and keep doing such a wonderful job!
I have an 03 Dyna Super Glide with over a hundred and twenty thousand miles on it. I just changed the tensioners tonight. So every engine will wear differently. They were ready for new ones but they lasted a hundred and twenty thousand miles. You don't hear me complaining. I'm going to try to get another hundred twenty thousand.
Me too have 94000 with original tensioner on 2000 wide glide almost half way worn down, will be changing them soon. Love my twin cam.
Holly cam
03 super glide is a beaut.
Good to hear. I have a 2002 Low Rider and it’s been a POS for me since I bought it last year. It only has 15,000 miles on it but so many things have gone wrong. Last month was the stator and swing arm bearing.
Anyway I’d be very pleasantly surprised if I pull off that cam plate and I have decent looking shoes with little wear.
But the fact that you did over 120K on yours gives me a sliver of optimism.
You shouldn't complain is the Dyno a 1380 ci or the 88 ci it only happened on the 88ci engines
Awesome video...Great job explaining the facts...I'll pull mine apart and look.
Thanks for the heads up. I have 21,000 miles on my 02 Road King. I'm gonna check it out and see what's going on.
what was the damage? im curious
Thank you. A lot of good information here I’ve been trying to find.
i bought my Super Glide from the original owner with 42,000 miles and had checked via mirror inspection on my last oil change and the original tensioners were fine andmore than likely had another 40,000 miles left on them but i am going on a long trip and decided npt to tempt fate and upgrade to the screaming eagle setup and because i change my oil with synthetic every 2000 miles as did previous owner i feel i am quite safe to go on my trip and i know many might feel changing oil every 2000 miles might be a tad obsessive but remember every engine has some metal pieces in it that is why mose oil drain plugs are magnetic to catch that debree so changing oil is not just for old or failing oil it is for cleaning the engine .everyone especially Harley Haters are quick to say negative comments about Harley but ive owned 46 bikes most of them japanese and onley one Shovelhead ,a ironhead also an evo 1200 Sportster now an o5 Dyna and even my goldwing did not go as far as my Dyna without very expensive work so unless you personally have owned Harley's and actually had experience with them your opinion is useless my Hondas althogh great bikes were ready for rebuilds which were such a pain and expense that I will sell them before going thoigh the time and money to fix them so as far as reliability I would put my Harleys againsat all other brands except my big two strokes because they may have smoked a bit but they were bullet proof
Robbie Gray hey man, the dinos are a tough bike. I have an 03 Dyna Super Glide with over a hundred and twenty thousand miles on it. I just changed the cam chain tensioners tonight and they were ready for it. I might have had another 500 miles before I would have metal on metal. So every engine is different. Some might need it at 50000 some 80,000 some 100,000. If you got yourself a dyna you have a tuff machine. Hang on to it. I would never get rid of mine.
i have a 2000 flhtcui, at 5k i put the chain eliminator, an oil pump upgrade, and a power commander to compensate for the cams. at 70k, its going strong. screw a "factory upgrade" aftermarket is the way to go.
Rod X can you tell me what you put in yours ? I want to upgrade mine ASAP!
At 5000 miles. Wow it's not even broken yet.
It seems like a no brainer that Harley should have used gears on the back side and the chain on the front. You wouldn't have to rip out the cam chest to change shoes shoes and the front chain would still absorb crank runout. That would be the cheapest and most effective aftermarket solution as well but everyone would rather gamble that gear drive won't destruct from runout or rip out the whole cam chest for that rear shoe.
You can always trust Harley Davidson, the assemblers of "premium motorcycles" to cut corners and reduce quality where ever possible. If they didn't, S&S, Fueling and the others would have gone out of business eons ago. So don't reward these cheap, greedy bozos. Screaming eagle parts are what should be in the motorcycle right from the factory. Don't pay these dips twice! Buy better parts from trusted, reliable manufacturers.
anybody ever had stuck plungers on screaming eagle cam plate upgrade ? the person that did this job put the plunger spring in the wrong way and it was stuck i put it in the right and it still gets stuck when you push it all the way in like something is out of round on the round part of the shoe and the guide .i also pulled the plate and found the rear one was also stuck but it seemed to be in correct and would pry free but when i push it in it still gets stuck this thing has not been run much since they done the kit she was rattling up a storm ,so im going back with stock new ones but what caused the rear one to stick just like the front one any feed is appreciated Peace!
I am so glad I have a new 2017 M8. The cam chain tentioner is just 1 with 1 cam, the single tentioner has a 40k run out ,after that I will install the s&s gear cam kit.
S&S is always the safe bet...
I have a 2006 street glide. I'm glad he said twice on the vidio that they changed it in 2006. I sure am glad I can ride with peace of mind.
Scott Brown, no not really. HD improved when they changed to the hydraulic system but they are still known to cause problems. They have a very limited amount of travel before they can cock in the cylinder bore and jamb up. This can sometimes lead to a catastrophic failure with the plastic pad actually tearing off and ending up being circulated through your motor in the oil. The only way presently known to eliminate all of these problems is gear drive but HD's loosening of the pinion runout spec to 10 thousandths negates this fix on many engines as thew total allowed run out for gears is only 3 thou. You would have to redo or replace your crank if you fall beyond the 3 thou limit and this is far more costly than most want to spend. The most cost effective fix is to use an improved tensioner like the Zippers Red Shift tensioners or equal. Due to the dual piston design, these units are far less likely to cock in the bore and sieze. They also have a slightly greater wear surface for a longer life span. Just sayin.......
@@scottbrown2475 I be an 06 street bob. I felt the same way when he said it twice too..
Didn't ya hear me screaming "shut that fucker down" at 10 secs in..... I can't believe ya let that run on with that metal on metal racket..dam. Clearly it was time to get out the wrench..
Get the S&S Tensioners with this kit - it rocks!!!
Thank you for this well explained video. Learnt a lot from it.
I have a sportster and it isn't a top fuel dragster but I just did the saddle sore 1000 on it🖒 1060 miles in 22 hours 19 minutes. Iron Butt association. It's a 2016 sportster iron 883. So If you want a fun little cruiser with not big twin problems, maybe take it into consideration.
1030 miles in under 15 hours Portland Oregon to just outside of billings Montana iron butt for sure
No bad for being on a girl bike. After 60 years of riding on a pretty much daily basis I'm sure I have well over a million miles under my belt. The early years on a hydraglide... not exactly a comfortable bike. I like the old sportsters and had a 67 XLH that was a really good bike. Could have used a fifth gear though.
Putting the upgrade kit is great, but I have an 04 Harley Davidson Electra Glide Classic flhtci with a Salvage Title so I just went with the OEM Replacement Tensioners, I did buy the outer chain since that Tensioner was broken on the outside got new needle bearings gasket kit all o-rings wish me luck they wanted $2880 to do the Harley upgrade kit, Bike had 30,000 miles on it 10,000 when I got it,I have always used 20/50 Synthetic in all 3 places. If I get another 30,000 I will be happy. Depending on what kind of price I get buying all my own stuff. Plus they always want to fix every other thing they can find. I told only do Tensioner Job & change oil we will see what it's gonna cost now. Labor is $110 an hour. It was going to be 7 hours for the upgrade job. Ranman
Ouch !!!-
Yeah did the screaming eagle switch out:
Hydraulic plate
High out put oil pump.
47000 on the clock-
Threw in a set of Cvo 253 “103” cams fer given too.
And wella!!!-
Quiet and mid range pulls like freight train !!!-
F-n epa cams !!!-
Great video! Harley Davidson should be giving EVERYBODY that owns a tc88 this kit. Why should we be paying for this because Willie G. has a bunch of ignorant ass engineers coming up with bull shit like spring cam chain tensioners.Thank GOD for S&S, or harley would have been out of business years ago!!!!!
Hd 20 50 oil has alot less lubrication than amsoil or mobile 1 synthetic and this should help extend the inevitable teardown.
Wasn’t there a change in 2006 to the tensioner shoe material?
Nice if them pads had more plastic. The black one seems to last longer 🤔
To all:
Look guys, use the parts you want to use. I’m just explaining options and the ones that I like. However like all manufactures, parts can and do fail at some point. Anyone can go back and reengineer something better, even hd on their own part so don’t be so quick to disrespect hd. Ya know it seems some people that ride and love hd, at the same time hate hd for being a manufacturer and making parts, especially when someone else comes out with a better part and it’s like their pissed at the manufacturer for making a less superior part. As if hd knew the part was going to fail in the first place. I think that some just like having something to bitch about so they feel cooler about themselves by down talking the motor company. If you don’t like hd then quit riding them and go buy a something else but do not down talk hd and certainly don’t do it on this video; that is not unless you can tell me about another American made , American based motorcycle brand that makes better looking, sounding motorcycle that never breaks down, never has recalls on parts , never needs more than an oil change, runs forever, or that has been around for over a hundred years and stood the test of time. They are the manufacturer, designer, and engineers building these things and every other company comes up with parts to make them better ,following HD’s lead.
Look I have watched dozens of HD video's and from this, in my opinion HD is probably the worst motorcycle ever. For 28 to 30 thousand dollars to buy a piece of crap like these motorcycles is highway robbery. My 1964 Royal Enfield is a thousand times better than any HD ever produced. The modern Royal Enfield's are crap just like HD so do not buy one of these
ever, never ever. I do not know what is going on in this modern world when engineers can not design a motorcycle that will last more than 40,000 miles. It is just soul destroying to see people being ripped off like this. My Royal Enfield may not be the fastest motorcycle around but it gets lots of respect, goes where I want it to and if something goes wrong it is so simple I can fix it myself so I never have to go near a money grubbing dealer ever. This is what makes a good motorcycle a truly great motorcycle.
Thank you, I love my HDRK & FB 05 & 03 BOUGHT USED fixed best machine evere
Very well put, thanx!
any time it is a harley davidson part, run for the hills! If it is harley made I go beyond human endurance to find anything else to replace it with:)
I have a 2006 Electra glide. Does mine srill have spring tensioners? I was told 99 to 06 had spring tensioners and Harley upgraded to hydraulic in 07
Is it okay to put a new cam chest and oil pump on a 103 that has done 30,000 miles? and would it be advisable to change the inner cam bearings at the same time?
What's the mileage you should check the hydraulic tensioners compared to the spring
very informative i learned today thank you
My 03 went at 18K miles. It sucked - but it wasn't metal to metal. I caught it early.
I had a problem with the 26035-99B Part and the Harley Repare Shop installed the 25284-11. In my view this new Part is the same showed in this video, am I correct in this?
In my understand the engine will be a better performance to the oil system. And the coil tensors was changed to hydraulic parts, am I sure?
I am owner of Harley Heritage Softail - 2003/03 - 100th Anniversary Model.
Thanks and best regards.
Nice explanation!!!! 😎
You reversed the tensioner cylinder when u put it back over the spring.
Eason Sylus yep . Has been mentioned before read the previous posts
good catch...
I just installed feuling 525 cams camplate oil pump lifters and pushrods on my 01 RK. Due to some confusion and wrong parts shipped, I went with the spring loaded tensioners instead of the hydraulic ones I wanted. The problem is the primary tensioner has been replaced twice in less than 2000 miles. The secondary looks fine. The primary one is from Dennis Kirk and the secondary is J&P because J&P was out of stock both times on the primary. What could be causing the fast wear of the primary tensioner? Also my bike is now running hot. There is a lot of noise in my rocker boxes and the bike blew a lot of oil out the air intake and front cylinder exhaust pipe. The bike ran perfect before this work was done.
Could be a lot of things but the first thing I'd look at is the cam sprocket timing. Could be off a tooth. As to the tensioner wearing out almost immediately..... no thoughts on that except that it must be way too tight. Go with the hydraulics!
I am considering upgrading to a 2013 - 2016 dyna switchback. Has this issue improved at all on these motors? Any feedback would be much appreciated.
Twin Cam engines all come with a pressed together crankshaft, which can twist out of true, therefore, installing metal gears for cam operation is not much of a solution on these engines, without first fixing the crankshaft, taking it to a performance specialty shop to true it up and balance it and weld the halves together, properly to attain a max run out of 0.001".
Go away old man.
All the concern about pressed cranks on t/c doesn't really come into play if you ride normally. Unless you're constantly dropping the clutch and going from no load to full load doing stationary burnouts, the stresses applied under normal conditions won't effect. Heck, even a rolling burnout won't inflict much of a problem.
DANNY NOEL 🤘
You put the hydronic lifter together wrong. Just saying.
I just bought a 2006 deluxe. Will it come with the upgraded hydraulic cam tensioner? I thought the 2006’s had the same issue with these
From what I understand it is 99 thru 06 with this issue. I just picked up an 06 heritage classic today.
hey when you getting the Screamin Eagle hydraulic upgrade kit do you get new inner and outer bearings with the kit and are the bearings already pressed into the support plate? thanks..
Argofukyrslf 72 sorry for the late reply. You do get new bearings but buy the se ones from the se catalog. And no the bearings are not pressed in.
Why use HD parts...their parts and engineering failed the first time...am I missing something here? S&S always appears to come up with a better product before HD is aware of the problem...perhaps not wanting to aknowledge their failure...but ....wouldn't you rather support a company that does it right the first time...
Dudeareno Rodent please read the comments before posting as I explained this once before.
It's all about the Benjamins$$
What does it cost to do this upgrade ???
I don’t know anymore. You’d have to get an estimate from a shop.
so he says gear drives whine , yep, but the gears dont whine nearly as loud as i would having to replace a motor. And really guys, the pipes on mine drown out the gear whine anyway. Harleys are neither quiet or stealth, its a cornucopia of noise, whats a little gear whine among friends? his periodic checks are 600$ a pop at YOUR expense every 15 k miles if its pre 06.
Rod X thank you for your input. the “Noise” is 1. A red flag for most techs and good ones will bring up having them checked if that noise present because it usually is how bad cam chain tensioners sound in the early stages. 2. The whine, or one of the many other noises an h-d produces are serious concerns for most riders and many times why a rider will bring his bike in to have it checked. Now each rider is different and some may accept some noise where others can’t stand it. Really the gear drives sound pretty close to an Evo engines cam noise. Depends on the individual rider. 3. The check shouldn’t cost anywhere near 600 bucks. The check involves removing the exhaust and cam cover and should be somewhere around 1 and 1/2 hours labor and a the price of a cam cover gasket and a exhaust gasket ( each dealer is different check with your shop)..provided everything is stock or close to it and there is no damage. Now if there is damage inside then cost will vary. 4. The cam tensioner check every 15k miles is not accurate either. Once replaced with the new tensioner system I would recommend checking every 100k. Back to costs.Cost of the gear drive system is more expensive, can require grinding out the inside of the cam cover for clearance and can be even more expensive if your out of spec on the crank runout. The gear drive cams don’t include a new oil pump either. H-D only supports H-D products. For these reasons I recommend the S.E. Hydraulic kit. Now personally I really like the gear drive systems and it is probably the best option but it is also an overkill solution and the most expensive solution for most riders. Disclaimer: I no longer represent the dealer in the video but am happy to help anyone with any questions they have. Thanks
Is the noise played at the beginning of the video early or late stage failure? Sounds to me like it's late stage but just wanted to confirm.
gvente87 this is definitely late stage.
HD should have bitten the bullet and fixed this problem...instead they went the low road and came up with a fix...which we have to pay for for failed engineering. ++ for them because now they get to make money on parts too and they don't have to fix anything.
I agree, HD should have had a recall for the shoddy design on the tensioners. But like most motorcycle companies, it is buyer beware. I replaced mine with the screamin eagle kit, it looks to be well engineered and well built and much cheaper than the aftermarket ones.
yelorsirhc hey man. Every engine on a Harley is different. I have a Dyna Super Glide 03 with over a hundred twenty thousand miles and I just changed the cam chain tensioners tonight and they were ready for it. Somewhere out at 50000 and some 80 and some 100 hundred. It's just one of those things. If you own a bike and work on it yourself, and if you don't know how to learn, you just have to check into these things. Again every engine is not the same and will not wear the same.
twcaldwell1951 I got to over a hundred and twenty thousand miles on mine. I just changed them tonight and going to try to get a hundred and twenty thousand more.
jason07770 that's kind of a problem... Assembly line procedures and quality control in manufacturing should ensure every engine is not different. They should all be the same.
yelorsirhc well I guess quality control was on their job on mine. Like I said I got a hundred and twenty thousand miles and some only get 50 or 80 thousand. But mine has been well taken care of with oil changes and maintenance at the right time.
I am using da hy-brid
Does anyone know if a 2010 superglide custom has hydrolic tensioners? Or the old style spring?
They have the good Hydraulic ones on anything past 06 when they went to the 96 ci
Are you saying 2006 is exempt?
It is not. I have an 06 road king with them. The only ones exempt i think are the dynas
I believe 2006 dyna series had the hydraulic tensioners and also the ("bicycle") newer style chains, (which have a smoother outer surface, hence less aggressive ware on tensioner). The softail tc range didn't get the change untill '07.
The earlier chains can have the outside surface polished, like a jewellers polish. This reduces abrasion and will help extend life of the tensioners.
I ride a 2006 electraglide standard FLHTI. 43000 miles and the cam shaft tension pads are like new, hardly any wear. I bought new pads, and new push rods to do this job. What a waste of time and money. This is alot of crap. Maybe I change my oil and do not beat the shit outta my harley. Are most harley riders idiots? Never change the engine oil and wind the engines up excessively??
Yes I have noticed some do not need anything but they are few and the check is simple and well worth taking a look.
my 30k check up, (at the dealer) and inspection of the tensioners appeared to be fine. the dealer never mentioned to install any over priced update kit... 41k the tensioner broke 75 miles from home, no indication, never any trouble. (2002 CVO Roadking) now a little over $2k and it should be fixed. an issue that HD always knew existed.
Question, if replace my cam tensions on my 04 RK with gear on gear and I am within spec. Can I replace my standard oil pump with the screaming eagle oil pump on the existing cam plate? Any help is much appreciated ...thanks
Hi Stan,
Usually you will be within spec on the 04 however the runout on the pinion gear should be checked, don't just assume it's good. If it is out of spec and you do use gear drive it could cause major damage so please check it first. I don't see h-d offering a stand alone oil pump and I would not recommend trying it. I have used the stand alone oil pumps from Fueling in the past and they are very good. I also see S&S is making one now that i'm sure would work well also. Thanks for the question, and if you have any others feel free to ask.
thanks,
Jeremiah
How do you check the runout on the crank? I'm considering an S&S 97" Big Bore kit on my 06 Super Glide. If I'm going to have to strip the bike down anyways, I'm really considering swapping out the chain drive cams to the S&S gear drive with a new cam.
kep67 sorry for the late reply. The pinion gear runout is checked with a speciality tool or by affixing a dial indicator onto the engine with the tip of the dial indicator on the pinion shaft and turning the crankshaft.
Stupid engineers,why not use gear driven cams to start with. Went with them on my 2002 RK after the inner shoe was worn to the metal. I'm almost on the verge of getting away from HD.
How many miles and were you using Synthetic oil?
I don't understand why Harley makes such bad products!
is this FatHead?
gear drive cams suck
Soo... honda is better. Haaa!¡
Hondas last forever
Look I have watched dozens of HD video's and from this, in my opinion HD is probably the worst motorcycle ever. For 28 to 30 thousand dollars to buy a piece of crap like these motorcycles is highway robbery. My 1964 Royal Enfield is a thousand times better than any HD ever produced. The modern Royal Enfield's are crap just like HD so do not buy one of these
ever, never ever. I do not know what is going on in this modern world when engineers can not design a motorcycle that will last more than 40,000 miles. It is just soul destroying to see people being ripped off like this. My Royal Enfield may not be the fastest motorcycle around but it gets lots of respect, goes where I want it to and if something goes wrong it is so simple I can fix it myself so I never have to go near a money grubbing dealer ever. This is what makes a good motorcycle a truly great motorcycle.
7316bobe I have over 100,000 miles on my Road King with stock chain tensioner that I changed at 98,000 miles to hydraulic and it was not bad. I ride my bikes all over the country from coast to coast and not one of them has ever broke down.
As shown here the newer models are better for the chain tensioner and that's why I upgraded my Road King.