The distribution centers make sense to me. The way I see it, product or commodity made or mined in the far reaches of Pyro is packed up and loaded onto a Hull C for shipment to a whole other star system, Stanton. Hull C makes its long journey across Pyro and through the jump point to Stanton. Once in Stanton, it takes a route from one space station to the next, dropping cargo to one or many. That cargo is split up at the stations and sent down to the distribution centers, on the planets, the regional distribution center, one might call them, in C2s and Caterpillars. Those shipments are again broken down and shipped out to the different outposts, both on the planet and its moons, in Hull As, A1s, etc. Then, in reverse, those outposts, like Shubin mining outposts, have cargo that needs to be shipped the reverse direction. Small cargo from outpost to distribution center. Small cargos are combined into medium cargos and sent to stations. Mediums combined to larges and sent across the system or beyond. They can also start doing small cargo missions, sending mining commodities from mining outposts to processing outposts. Not sure why they never started doing that before. They could make a small to medium cargo mission today, where you pickup a cargo load from a Shubin mining outpost and take it to a Shubin processing facility on another moon or a station, with what they have today.
Multiple distribution centers handling the distribtion of products across a planet make way more sense than a single space station handling all the interplanetary trade and all the distribution for a planet.
Im at the 9:16 point of this video and I have a few comments: Mike says "they should have just delayed the patch but they didnt bc of the ship sale" but he doesnt remember when we had a literal year of no patches bc the upcoming kept getting delayed.CIG is making a huge point to make 4 patches a year even if they are small, this patch wasnt released JUST for the ship sale, its not like they couldnt just add new ships in a 3.22.x patch. Also Mike is bored bc he has had access to 3.23 for... a month now? He def is a biased voice here, which is cool. Shows the difference between an Evo and someone who isnt.
They said they would do 4 a year but I don’t think there was one year they achieved that. They said they would do staggered dev to improve dev time but that was binned off years later. Let’s not forget the issue here is never the backer it’s cig not doing things in a sensible amount of time. No one wants deadlines but truth is sometimes we need deadlines.
@@Eagle6Airsoft I think the only year they missed 4 quarterly patches was 2 years ago when they announced they were going to miss the patch bc PES was such a monster. They are doing staggered development, its an internal process - the team thats finishing 3.23 will begin work/has started 3.25 and the team that released 3.22 is going to release 3.24. Thats what the go-no go meetings are though, deadlines. The fact that this cargo update isnt in the .0 patch shows that CIG is respecting deadlines instead of missing quarterly target completely.
@@TheMonkey55 twist and twist and twist, you could work for cig with that level of obfuscation. Cig and backers conveniently forgetting the years of late patches when you want to. Cig has missed and pushed back so many patches not to mention the fact that that they will gut a patch just to be able to get one “technically” out the door while trying to tell You, well you wouldn’t want it “rushed”. No, I wanted it done right and on time in the first place. As per their own internal estimates. Remember the only dates set are set by cig, they have set there own dates and missed them from day one. Yet the backers the problem for complaining. Manage expectations better.
@@Eagle6Airsoft I dont think CIG has ever blamed the backers for complaining? I def get the feeling you dont understand project management and thats fine. Even the light patches they release benefit the game, so breaking into a new branch every quarter is always a good idea.
I am so sick to death of hearing "it's a challenge", "we're struggling", "we're not sure where to go from here". How in the world is it not time, after 12 years, to hire people that can ACTUALLY do this? People have had no problem half completing something they were paid to make and then just completely dumping the project and leave the company, so why are they so afraid of firing people that are producing next to no results? If you hired a mechanic to build you a race car, gave them 3 years to do it, and they REPEATEDLY tell you they're facing challenges and aren't sure what to do and have extended the time to build the car to 12 years would you keep this mechanic? This is beyond absurd at this point. All of the hand flailing and esoteric verbiage is a sign of someone who has no idea what the hell they are doing. No, I don't know how game development works, I don't know the ins and outs, but I DO know body language, I SEE lying on resumes when seeking employees, and I KNOW incompetence when I see it; whether it's in the form of game development or something else. I also know that it's been 12 entire years and the live environment is still hardly any different to what it was 6 years ago, and if you have to keep HARPING this diatribe EVERY WEEK of "our team is so talented and blah blah blah" then maybe we need to take a lesson out of Tywinn Lannister's book. "A man who says he is King is no king at all." Just lie to me at this point if the news is going to be this consistently terrible for the next 10 fucking years of development.
took the words right out of my mouth. more people really need to start speaking up about the sheer incompetence this studio enables. it's time to boycott. hard.
Other studios would not delay the patch, they would have never told you about the feature till it was 100% green lit to go live. Then a patch would go out for an event or sell. I have not worked on any live service game that did not have hard release dates whose scope had to be adjusted to fit that date.
I dont see us using the C2 to make 30 small runs to outposts to pick up a few SCU at a time. It could be expensive to maintain and fuel and staff a ship that size. I see us using the freelancer and such to go out and gather that stuff and bring it to the C2. Or just deal in bulk
Honestly I could see you taking the freelancer or something of the same size to make a bunch of stops and pick up all the small orders to bank in the hangar for a time when demand rises. If we can store cargo in the home hanger it's essentially like playing stocks.
From my understanding, distribution centers are owned by a faction. So they're either a collection center for nearby resource extraction/manufacturing to then send into the larger trade ecosystem, or where they pull resources from the larger trade ecosystem and then distribute it among their nearby faction outposts. Like most companies are going to have their own warehouses to track and store their products and aren't going to rely entirely on renting space in the dockyard of an international trade port. Also, I'm not sure the LEOs could handle the volume of all the last mile transactions for a single planet by themselves. Even if one ship can quickly go from station to final destination planetside, the station can't necessarily handle hundreds of simultaneous ships arriving and departing. It can, however handle a few large ships that break that load up into more locations that can in turn support more trading across all of them simultaneously. Maybe that'd just mean more LEO stations around a planet, but it's not unreasonable that a huge planetside instillation would be cheaper to build and maintain than an equally huge orbital instillation.
So long term, if they add a hanger upgrade path. But you automatically are assigned a hangar for free based on the biggest ship you own, essentially if you buy a idris now, you will be gifted for free the “end game” size hanger for free. That’s not pay 2 win at all is it. How much will it cost a starter ship owner upgrading hangers over time. Don’t get me wrong I want the progression, I want to grind and unlock bigger hangers, the issue is not that game play loop it’s that someone else has spent money to skip it.
Yeah this is really suspicious to me. Surely they realise how dumb it is to make hangar size based on what's owned at the time it's assigned, so this really seems like a sneaky cash grab.
@@Turbovolver I mean that would be the icing on the cake wouldn’t it, upgrades showing on the store front. But I suspect there cash grab to be more subtile. People will soon realise buying a bigger ship gets your a bigger hanger and the melts will beginning to make sure they have at least one of the largest ship. Meanwhile it will be just another thing played down as meaningless “it’s just like lti, it doesn’t really mean anything”. Yet people are getting entire hulls gifted back for free when another person doesn’t. I mean, this is the problem with cig actually starting to build out this game, have they built a rod for there own back with regards to selling so much on the “pledge” store. And we haven’t even gotten to land claims yet!
I always said the low hanging tech would come earlier than the meaty stuff. The Hangars and Freight Elevators were always going to be transformative. I predict were going to get tier 0 of the hangars and elevators about 3 weeks to a month after the base 3.23 patch and a couple of hot-fixes.
I have always been puzzled by why they haven't done something with the Journal alerts. Even if they weren't wired into the whole Tony Z. economy thing, they have them working now. It would be so easy to have the system suddenly alert everyone that there is a substantial discount or paying substantially more on a particular commodity at a particular location that if you hurry, you can make really good profit. I could see cargo people staying glued to those Journal alerts, ready to jump on the latest deal. That literally could be a weekends worth of dev work to add and it would be ongoing compelling game play, that would pit players against each other, that could be put on autopilot. Build some story telling into it about medical supplies being needed desperately, due to Nine Tails attacks in the sector, or Processed Food being low in a sector due to pirate activity, etc..
That's not just a weekend's worth of dev work, since the alerts have to pull from object containers that may not be streamed in or regularly updated, so it requires an over-arching system to monitor entry changes on commodities across the verse. So it would be pulling more network resources than what it does now, which is sort of what the economy team is partially working on. But it's also why the Tony Z system is so important to have in concert with server meshing.
We need basic guild/friends functionality. Permissions, ranks, etc. Orgs buy rights to DC's getting first dibs on better sell/buy prices at the DC. No limit to how many Orgs can buy rights but the more/less with rights changes how big of a piece of the pie you can get making people branch out to other DCs. Miners/hunters etc. in the area might stop bringing their goods to that dc if the volume of a certain item is really high plummeting the sell price. More volume going through the DC could also make rights more expensive pushing orgs out of competition. If we had ranks, permissions and actual roles with functionality it'd be cool if you as a 'distribution manager' in your org with assigned jurisdiction over a specific DC can setup trade routes for the org from the dc to other outposts or maybe you only have permissions to set buy/sell requests here. Which would spawn contracts for your org members that they can take, complete and earn rep in the org. The org leaders could assign different tiers of rep, rewards and permission unlocks allowing the use of org ships, vehicles and assets so they can continue to put more work into the org and move up the ranks. Eventually a player may become a very reputable hauler within that org and because they have a tangible proof of their work the org may request them to do inter system trade routes or high risk jobs through hostile areas. That player's personal reputation as a hauler becomes more 'certified/reputable'. If they outgrow the org they can branch out to bigger things if they wish to.
@@sirbonobo3907 Except it's not, because it's tied to object container and entity authority management, which is network dependent, which has been overhauled multiple times due to database changee, replication, entity culling, and server meshing. If they implemented org features eight years ago they would have had to refactor them every single time they imeplemented a new major tech feature.
Regarding the trade routes. I think you may can see it this way. The LEO and other stations work solely on a stellar system scale. When we have more systems in the game, it even becomes bigger. This means that the LEO's doesn't have the capacity to repackage that large amount of cargo to smaller stations. Instead it just reshuffles the 32/24 SCU containers to different DC's or directly to the cities, that then work on a planetary scale. This is also why we would have different DC's around the planet. Because they work in different regions of the planetary system. From here, stuff is distributed to larger or smaller stations, including on the moons, where the final scale is individual packages ie. the FedEx driver in SC.
When they say we have to take into account our starting location. Will more planeta have surface entrances like New Babb, or will I always pick MicroTech because of the surface entrance and the easy of going to the comms.
As for the cargo ship sizes and always using a C2, might be a lot of fuel and time to run around and load/unload S1, S2 boxes. The smaller places might not have enough to fil the hull of a C2 and you are flying everywhere trying to be efficient but a smaller ship can to A to B quicker and cheaper?
I didnt catch it, but just to be sure - did they ask/answer the question about what will happen if you get a "medium sized hangar" when spawning in the first time, but then mid-patch buy a Large ship? What happens to the size of your hangar?
Great episode. I will always prefer they hold features back and get them right rather than rushing them in half done and broken. Good call by the team. Chad seems like he knows exactly what he's doing. I don't mind waiting longer for this massive change to come in correct.
Around 20:35 ish talking about players not in your party getting into your hanger: Could add a security checkpoint near the elevator. Player(s) that are not in your party are unable to pass through the security checkpoint gate and unable to mess with or steal any of your items in the hanger before said timer is up. Even if they try to body block the gate, the timer will remove them shortly. This way you do not have to worry about randos running in your elevator and then charging into your hanger and taking items or crashing your ship, ect.
i work in a distribution center. it makes perfect sense. a distribution center does alot more than you think with consolidating, breaking packages down ect. they are absolutely necessary. the space stations are like your ports which dont deal with consolidating smaller packages. the size of these places are irrelevant. Just because ships can quantum jump is again based on costs and efficiency. you can load up a big cargo plane and fly it to a destination in 1/10 of the time but its not as efficient
Ports will deal in small boxes though, Mike is being stupid again and talking over himself instead of listening to the Q&A. Port stations like Everus will be able to go UP to the larger size SCU crates, not only deal in those. What's being limited is places like outposts that can only deal in 1 and 2 size SCU boxes
RIP RMC runs from Rappel, Picker's Field, and Dunboro... unless you are flying a small cargo ship, but it makes sense because making 2 mil per run was OP.
In RL our cargo system works much like he is talking about, let’s use the mail for an example. From your house to the post office a small vehicle is used, then from the post office it gets sorted by destination. Then it gets taken to a larger, regional distribution center it is then put on trucks to got to another regional distribution center to reverse the process. This system sounds the same, to make the trips worth the money to do, small vessels would move stuff too and from small locations to the distribution centers then either to another distribution center for “local” planetary distribution or consolidate it into one large shipment to go up to the space station from there it would further consolidate depending on final destination. Sure there could be something like UPS, FedEx or DHL that can do more direct shipping but they all have the same functions in place.
37:04 Mike, new game loop!! Star Movers, Empire Movers, Colonial Movers (a shout out to Battlestar Galactica) - just a few company names. The process: create beacon or use whatever mission creation mechanism CIG develops to ask for a player cargo hauler to move your gear from your digs (example...) at A18 to your new digs at MT. Set a payout (what's it worth to you to move your crap?). If no PCs take your contract within, say, 30 minutes, an NPC mover does it for what you put in your contract offer but with some minimum amount so people don't game the system and pay 1aEUC for a move. There are other possible ways to develop the loop such as whether you pack your stuff in xSCU boxes for the mover or if it is an auto-pack system. However the cargo crates get loaded, the moving company comes to your hangar (you don't have to be there) and retrieves the boxes, moves them to the destination and unloads them at a Distro Center. After some delay (15 minutes?), your stuff is at your new hangar and when you go to your new hangar, you see all your stuff where it was in the old hangar... There are many ways this loop could be built, but it's an engagement factor for cargo professionals to enjoy.
The station receives bulk orders and sends bulk orders. The distribution center receives said bulk orders and splits it into individual orders to distribute on the planet. It's akin to ups or amazon sorting centers. A station doesn't have the logistical capacity to send small orders even if it's one jump away. DC's are designed to sort and allocate bulk as a specialty so they aren't giving out bulk all too much, though maybe I'm wrong for sc
1:06:35 I really like this actually! In terms of what Mike said about still being able to use big ships at outpost; yeah you can, but the advantage of the bigger ship is outweighed by the time-sink of having to MANUALLY load it with "1 or 2 SCU sized boxes". I think the idea of what Chad was saying is if I'm flying my C2 I'm going to the locations that allow me to load 32SCU boxes and then buy potentially lower value commodities but in much bigger volumes, whereas if I'm going to a small outpost to buy gold or quant and I take my Cutty or my C1 I can probably only buy 30 SCU (and it's in 1 or 2 SCU sized boxes) at that location anyway and those smaller ships will get me in and out so much faster than a CAT or a C2 would.
For the smaller packages to make a difference they would need to be in places that are more difficult or costly for larger ships to get to. Ex: small outposts planet side, stations in the middle of dense astroid fields, dangerous areas where stealth is more viable than a knock down drag out fight. Then smaller ships could take those to buyers, hubs, or mission targets.
Also, in atmosphere travel and leaving the atmosphere should be more costly for fuel and wear and tear on ships. Hopefully we'll see this change happen if/when the atmosphere model gets introduced. This would also make a space for ground vehicles as they would consume orders of magnitude less fuel.
Thinking its more like a highway when they are talking about trade route so they would have a giant cargo on a main line run going a certain route while the smaller cargo ships are a little more flexible for locations
I am in an Org currently and there are people in the Org that I would not want to have access to my inventory. It goes back to the level of power as a party for example. I do not think Org 2.0 would fix the issue at hand here.
Yes. Knowing that allowing a stranger into a party gives them so much access will make people think twice. True, someone can be kicked - but that will be only after they've misbehaved and damage is done. Trust and then verify or verify and then trust is the decision people will face.
It was always going to be a point patch release, and even then, NOT just a single point patch either. The changes required were just too big, and too broadly across the board, affecting or being affected by other systems in the game. Basically they wanted to avoid another 3.18 "Moment"
Yep, and yet people were just losing their minds about it on reddit/spectrum. Those same people would be losing their minds if they would be unable to play the game at all because you cannot leave the hangar at all.
@@Billy-bc8pk LoL, These are the people who are never satisfied with what they have (and believe themselves to be more knowledgeable than the Devs, as what the games requires in order to be what it 'should' be) and barely use the half of it!!
When the dev said we have to figure out a way to make this stuff work in the economy means 2 things. 1. Tony Z and quanta is not happening, because they seems to redoing the whole economy from zero 2. They are still bringing stuff before designing the economy first.
I like the idea of Hull D/E running routes to/from the system jump gate stations. The Hull C maybe could run to/from LEOs and Jump Gate stations. C2/Cat runs to distribution centers and main city. Smaller cargo can be ran from LZ to POI or something within the planet
My head cannon for cargo lanes and how DCs fit in is this: Villages/Bases/outposts = irl residential doorstep. Starter/small cargo ships (and possibly even ground vehicles🤞 depending on distance, weather, terrain and road access) deliver small quantities of specific goods. Planetary landing pads = distribution centers for said doorsteps. Medium cargo ships deliver medium quantities of various goods from the new larger DCs. New DCs & major landing zones = distribution centers for the regional planetary landing pads. Large vessels capable of planetary landing travel between DCs and in-system space stations Space stations = irl ports. Largest vessels travel to and from other stations and systems I don't personally see the new DCs as illogical or redundant even though they are essentially DCs for DCs. Not only will they likely be responsible for fabricating some goods of their own considering their corporate ownership, but also in a world of this scale it seems natural to have to add another stop. Not only does this give every sized cargo ship a role to play, but it would also help to more efficiently organize incoming and outgoing goods. All that said, I don't think ships of certain sizes should/will be limited to these specific roles, I just think this is how they will be operated most efficiently.
I see the trade routes as, small/medium ships do the distribution and moves small cargo from outposts and distro stations, to the space stations. The larger ships move large quantities of cargo between stations. And then XL ships move extra large quantities (and more) between systems. Also feel like larger ships would consume too much fuel to have to fly down in atmo, vs lighter ships. (Sure fuel prices will become a factor too)
So even if you PLEDGE a larger ship after the fact, you're still strapped with the hangar size you started with. Unfortunate, but at least the store is also effected.
For the ideas you were having about 1:15 minutes in. My thought is having priority cargo routes that are for small amounts of cargo direct from location to location, or station to surface, that pay a bonus based on how fast you finish the delivery.
idk where i want to start now, i wanted to spawn in orison cause the elevators will allow ground vehicles to be able to spawn but if i cant change it this patch idk
1:15:20 I love how Mike completely forgot that we'll be able to choose what kind of size SCU containers we purchase stuff in, and that in this Q&A we're being told that those stations can go UP to that size. The only thing limited is outposts dealing in 1 and 2 scu size boxes
I’m fairly new to star citizen but I was trying to figure out the solution to making smaller cargo ships more relevant once you have the bigger C2 and etc. But I believe the systems are already right in our face. With engineering on the way you would have to crew to your ship with more players which would lower your profit. Also, with having a bigger profile and possibility for more loot you are a bigger target for pirates as well. Not to mention the maneuverability and pad sizes, having a bigger ship for these smaller 1-3 SCU runs seems like a hassle. I do believe more systems will be put in place but I think we are going to have pretty good reasons to travel light soon
Maybe this is an idea: you can load or unload at freight elevators in hangars yes but also down on freight decks can consolidate or break your SCU of cargo - so players can manually decide to pack 1SCU into 32 SCU boxes and vice versa
To the point of distribution centers, The need for a distro center is only required because of space. You need room for all the cargo. Also, buildings on a planet are easier than massive space stations.
Exactly, even our Sea Port doesn't store all the shipments, they already need the storage space for loading and unloading the cargo from and onto ships. A one glance at an LEO station, would suggest that they can't hold a great amount of cargo in place. I would treat DC as literal distribution centers/warehouse. Not all commodities are to be delivered to customer immediately. There are items that would be stockpiled and will be moved according to demands. There is no way an LEO station could store that many amount of cargo...4 Hull C delivery and it would be full...looking at it size..
@@fajarn7052 This makes me want orbital stations that operate as warehouses that are just enormous. A sea of containers. Would be cool to dog fight in and around.
@fajarn7052 Go actually fly around the container storage areas. They are utterly massive already. NOT a few Hull-C shipments. You are probably still right, and that gives plenty reason for DCs to exist, but there is tens of thousands of crates if not hundreds of thousands. Stations DO need to accept shipments from Hull-E's. Stanton having entire planets bought for ship and weapon manufacturing will certainly have Hull-E shipments.
56:30 "tractor beams in personal hangar" - means you can drop 8scu container on a trespasser. I once killed myself trying to fit an extra couple of 1scu boxes in Vulture. So probably trespasser can do the same...hmm..
to me cargo seems to relate very similarly to airports and air freight. Having worked at both a FBO and several Airlines (Delta, American, FedEx and Amazon) doing freight. basically larger craft require larger airports. I believe the Airlines hub and spoke concept is where we have our thought of how Distribution Centers would or should work. So running larger ships with cargo with multiple final destinations and then have the small to medium ships do the typical final mile deliveries unless they have us using ground vehicles to do first/last mile deliveries with in the DC. I would also like to see missions where there is on demand freight where its not scheduled and you go point to point, and have them at random times this would justify possibly using a larger ship depending on what the load is. I do hope they change it to where the first and final mile deliveries actually matter most of the time.
Expanding on the why distro centers should still have the same last mile feeling as todays distro centers is related to the size and cost. Owning a giant space station for storing materials would in theory be much more expensive than having a surface area for that item storage. The stations are your ports of transit focused on getting cargo moved where the distro centers can have more of a warehouse roll. Along with the larger cheaper warehouse roll the distro center also makes sense to be the location that can repack items and take those 32 1 scu crates and make it one 32scu crate and vise versa where the station would again be a trade hub focused on getting cargo in and out and not that warehouse/distro center role.
@14:34 - Mike, imo eptu IS THE PURPOSE of having 3.18 testing it and being able to fix untill PU. A reminder 3.18 was on LIVE service fcked as hell. @22:57 you have so much unused space @spaceports, make another type of 'store' - detention chamber, can be instanced, to store thieves for few minutes; @26:00 - allowing ppl to acces hangars of group members will discourage ppl from making random groups. There should be additional UI element to allow/forbid accessing random ppl hangars and inventory.
They could delay the patch and simply release Theatres of War instead, but that would actually require CIG to not have lied about Theatres of War existing in the first place all those years ago. That would keep us occupied while they polish the supposedly existant content we've been deprived of in this now supposedly 'gutted' 3.23(5.3) patch.
Bruv, ToW was being developed by a contracted 3rd party dev studio. That studio got bought and the contract for ToW died in the acquisition. CIG optimistically thought they'd be able to get to it at some point, but clearly that didn't work out. They didn't lie. Plans had to change. It wasn't malicious. Would you rather have SQ42 finished and those devs moved to SC or ToW?
@@jackinthebox301Sure man. Just do yourself and everyone else a favor and leave the excuse makng to CIG. You're not being paid for it. 'I'm a reasonable human hur- dur-hur' 😆
@@jrddoubleu514 Its honestly pretty easy. My life satisfaction doesn't revolve around the promises of a corporation over which I have no control. You should try it sometime.
I'm very interested in how this is going to work when base building is eventually implemented. Imagine if instead of spawning ships in, you had a massive sort of "garage" where every ship you have is stored physically and they're persistent/don't despawn, so you could run around and just look at all your ships like it's a ship showroom. That would be awesome.
@@Billy-bc8pk Yes, but keep in mind the eventual idea behind dynamic server meshing is that vacant areas are going to be streamed out. So if a player isn't at their base, you can offload that area. Maybe the overall hit on memory wouldn't be too bad. Idk, I'm not a software engineer.
The only way to keep players from using their large cargo ships in small locations is to not allow them to land there. That aside I'd like to know how CIG is going to stop trolls from yeeting your boxes away while manually loading at outposts. If the cargo hauler can use their tractor beam so can anyone else and just like with those players that love to stowaway on your ships, there will be tons of trolls and pirates that'll steal your boxes, only you can't even shoot them at outposts and even uf you could, you'd be the one stuck with CS.
The explanation for 'why' is fine in a vacuum. In the wider context of how beleaguered the "cargo refactor" rollout has been, in the context of persistent hangars being a 3.18 card that got pulled that still isn't ready a year later, in the context of how long this has all been drug out, I'm still not thrilled. Okay, so it wasn't ready for 3.23.0. Why, after all this time, is it still not ready? Bc looking at the monthly reports and shit, it's hard to see how they have not just lied about how long this was worked on. They told us the hangars were going to be in 3.18 and then February of this year the monthly report laid out that they had barely even started fucking with instancing. So while the 'why' makes sense in a vacuum, it doesn't make me feel better knowing they lied about having been working on it, knowing all those prior cases of it slipping or becoming a 'separate deliverable' were not because it wasn't ready but because they hadn't started. I'm just tired of being misled. Chad told me on spectrum last fall that they'd just started working on tractor beams, while the progress tracker had shown USPU working on it for a year prior. I'm fucking tired of being misled. They said 'weeks, not months.' But we didn't see these features at all, not in evo, not in PTU. We don't know what state they're in. We only have the word of people who have lied to us about the state they were in before. I don't care what they say until it's in PTU and I can see it with my own eyes, honestly. I'd be annoyed if this is how patches work going forward (which realistically it already is) bc it just lets them keep underdelivering while making it look like "oh look how much we did in [patch]." Idk. I just want them to start delivering. I don't think they can. Also yeah I absolutely do care about calling vehicles in the freight elevator bc it's still so much easier to call ground vehicles on a separate lift and drive them onto your already parked ship than it is to juggle shit around.
Regarding the Distribution Centers, the only reason I can argue for their existence is that a corporation may want control of its own logistics, and don't want to for instance pay cargo and storage fees at the LEO. So for instance if you're Sakura Sun, you may want your own Distribution on your own, owned piece of land, because it makes more sense for your specific storage needs, you can control the whole pipeline. So DC's existing does actually make sense to me. Nothing to do with spaceships and quantum, corporations will always prefer situations where they can control the logistical pipeline. Now knowing Star Citizen, DC's will be used for 50,000 different uses and not represent safety or logistics at all, so I don't doubt they'll fuck it up one way or another.
47:39 This needs to be discussed in detail way way more. If you’re talking about using internal voice comms is there a system wide comm, galaxy wide comm? I want SC to push away meta gaming and external communication. 1:13:59 I think the smaller more agile ships will serve the “later game role” of moving either extremely high value cargo or time sensitive cargo. It’s very similar to what we used to do in EVE. Freighters move bulk to stationary locations. Smaller cargo runners are outfitted to run blockades, reapply carriers, and rearm capital ships that are rotating out of combat zones.
One way to discourage the use the big ships is making locations inaccessible to them or at least very inconvenient. You can do that with geography and location structure. For example, an outpost in the middle of a forest or a rock formation.
separating the box sizes means smaller ships will be able to focus on the small boxes and bigger ships might not see value in traveling a longer distance to pick up small boxes. then because smaller ships have access to smaller jump areas to get to other locations they might be better for higher risk small volatile cargo. a bigger ship probably would not want to deal with hundreds of explosive boxes ect if it might ruin their whole haul if it goes bad.
Would really have preferred 3.23 to be delayed to wait for the cargo work but there's bound to be features in 3.23 that underpin fleet week and ship sales and, if true, it was inevitable it would be split like this.
It would be interesting to see a situation where what you see is a difference in trade routes between Raw materials vs Commodities. So For Raw materials it might be from LEO/Refinery/Etc. > LEO > DC all in large sizes, where Commodities (finished products) would be DC > LEO > LEO > Destination or DC > Destination if on the same planet, and then DC > LEO and LEO > DC is Large sizes (24/32scu), but DC/LEO > Destination is smaller, so commodities would get dispersed in smaller quantities directly from LEOs, but raw materials would be in larger sizes.
I watched this live but watching the video now when you are talking about cargo ships, and where is the value in small ones and whats the point b/c the C2 can do everything. I don't think we considered also enginneering will be a thing. So while a C2 can do it, with engineering would it be beneficial? Or would it be better to just roll in my C1 solo and not have to manage as such. Granted a big part of that also relates to if you are being attacked or not. Which if you aren't then it's probably less of a factor, but on the flip side a larger cargo ship is probably more enticing to pirates vs something small like a C1, Freelancer, Cutty, etc.
I really need them to work out some good solution for vehicle items to be loaded as cargo. Right now, salvaging things like guns and components is more trouble than they are worth, because of the storage hassle of having a buncha items jumping around your cargo bay, sparking and loading up your ship with hit points. I wish they had pallets, that could have items connected to them and then the pallet would be attachable to the cargo grid. Maybe a pallet that had weapon hardpoints that guns could attach to. Pallets that have missile racks. Pallets that have gun racks. I was really hoping the new cargo boxes we can now buy would allow us to drag these items into them, but I haven't been able to get that to work.
How i understand the Balance with the boxes is that, if you can only get small boxes, you might not wanna spend ages un/loading all those small boxes to buy/sell them + as he said the fee and time will be higher if you have small boxes
I think of dc’s as “org personal hangers” for a lack of a better term. They keep and ship things from there where they have total control over their cargo
delivering large loads in space keeps larger ships from costly entering and exiting of planets. distribution centers on surfaces are for storing products that are delivered. even if we have space ships what your saying is products needs to be delivered directly to where they need to go without any backup storage anywhere. there could be enough supplies stashed on a planet to provide services for a year. yes you could potentially have hundreds of space drop offs to hold your goods but eventually you will have cluttered space around your planet blocking travel. like going to a beach and realizing there are 1500 boat docks with ships on the coastline blocking your entrance.
So just to be clear, what he's saying is in the initial release my personal hangar will only be big enough to fit a Cutter, but players who spent more on the pledge store will get bigger hangars. I get that they haven't sorted the hangar upgrade features yet, but in that case why not just default everyone to having the largest personal hangar until you've got those features in? Coz as it stands this makes my personal hangar basically pointless.
I'm hoping that eventually there will be a way for a criminal to basically hide thier identity. This would allow them to dock in a safe zone. At the same time a bounty hunter if tracking that player finds them in a safe zone, but hidden in thier hanger. They could walk up to a guard by the hanger elevators and say here is my paper work have you seen this guy. If that player(criminal) used an elevator near that guard. The guard can inform the bounty hunter yes, he is at hanger 21. Then the bounty hunter can go there without being trespassed. Of course a criminal station might not inform you of this. Or maybe there could be some kind of rep system for each station. If your rep is higher then the criminals, they guards will tell you.
meh... so, everyone atm has tons of hangars because every ship pledge contains a hangar. but they'll give you only the biggest and the others - please buy....
Fingers crossed for a .1 release but maybe it's like 3.17.2 and is fairly big (100player count, ghost hollow, and stations have hangars instead of landing pads) that got into ptu in mid July and released in August.
Just delay the whole patch till it can come out as a whole. It gives MM more time in the oven, it gives UI chance to make necessary changes or spruce up things they aren't happy with, gives Animation time to move forward with the Zero-G team on additional animation/push pull, etc. If you delay the whole patch, you have a more cohesive and stable base for everything as a whole, not just them rushing to get Cargo/Hangars out for 3.23.1/3.23.2, etc. Also, the lack of moving off the rip is kind of a bummer. I like living out at MIC-L1 for the fog/asteroids. Every wipe, I throw all my stuff in my ship, fly out, dump it all off, and then claim all my ships over there. So knowing I miss out on the personal hangar by wanting to do that kind of sucks. I also agree with a necessity to make living on your ship more feasible. Maybe allow players to place/decorate with items as PURELY DECORATIVE, removing them from the inventory and removing their functionality, but binding them to that X/Y/Z on the ship as part of a "layout", so that way if you do die, you can just load the "layout" and have your ship fully decorated again, leaving you to only have to stock food, new guns in your racks, etc. That would make the idea of living on your ship a lot less of a tedious feeling, if you blow up/die.
I completely see your point on distribution centers vs stationary ports being the last mile. What may throw a loop in this is that cheaper planetary only ships might be used from dist. centers rather than quantum capable ships jumping from planatery stations direct to points on the planet. Most likely, these quantum capable ships won't be as available as cheaper atmo only ships or train systems etc... and therefore dist. centers could make sense as the last mile or a hop between stations. having a quantum capable ship deliver direct to a final location would be much more expensive... sort of like using fedex aircraft vs fedex trucks... just my 2 cents. No way it would be cost effective for instance to have a c2 deliver directly to client, but instead from station to dist. center. Even smaller ships like cutters wouldn't be cost effective to fly 30 of them from station to direct point... you would have hundreds of ships. I think this would more than likely mirror our current systems more than they wouldn't. Yes there are no current trains etc... but this is how i see it working.
As for the jukebox being able to play your own music; there are broadcast rules in different countries. In Canada you need a broadcast license to play TV/Music that the "public" hears. So let's say you have another user join your hanger and they are listening to your son playlist. Legally, you would have to have a broadcast license in order to do that. Frankly, I don't blame CIG for not wanting to get into that circus. That's just for broadcasting, then you have arstis who want their cut every time you listen to one of their sons (like radio stations have to do). How do you calculate that?
I think people at the hanger piracy issue in present state vs the options provided by future state. Sure, you want people to be able to raid hangers. So make that a thing in lawless space. Stanton has security and laws? Pyro does not. So if you make your spawn point in Pyro you are down for piracy. If you make your home in Stanton then you want the benifits of the security systems in place.
I think hangar size should be tied to rep or something. Work for it. Happy people can drop money on ships to support the game but we need to have more things tied to actual gameplay and rep. So even if you buy all the big ships, you gotta sweat to get that nice big boss hangar via trading, fighting, even exploration or something.
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Starting off, I gotta say I’m starting to hate the misuse of ‘LEO’ as much as I hate ‘bespoke’. It should be something like ‘LOS’ (low orbit station’) and ‘OEM’. (I don’t have to explain that one, right?) There, soapbox concluded. 1:17:00 Generally, I agree. I see the station as the terminal for inter-station transport, an orbital distribution center, if you will. I see the distribution center planet-side as central hubs on the surface from which local runs originate. When base building and crafting comes online, that’s where resources transit from orbit (LOS) to surface (DC) to point of consumption, and where products transit from PC- or NPC-owned production sites to surface to orbit. However, DCs and LOS facilities should allow all size ships for all size cargo runs. Unlike RL where big oceanic cargo ships and ONLY those big ships operate between seaports, the game should support shipments of all sizes to transit all facilities, from sub-SCU hand-carry-able boxes up through the biggest SCU boxes. What you haul as a player, then, depends on the size of your ship and the available missions. Precious cargo (high-value) might be a 2SCU box moved in an Avenger Titan, for example, from the station at Port Tressler to a DC on Hurston. This could be a target of opportunity for pirate gameplay…
For what its worth with the box size limits, if I have a C1 that I want to load up, I want my two 32 SCU boxes loaded up then I get gone as quickly as possible, limiting box sizes half defeats the purpose of how that ship exists for cargo as far as I'm concerned.
I don't actually get what the advantage of the personal hanger is. ...Just that we can use our decorations again and leave stuff out without it being deleted or moved around? That's not really enough of a game changer to make go down to planet to access it. Are they just deleting local storage altogether and making you get everything from the magic elevator?
Think about how many things you can do on your own terms with it, like stockpiling components, commodity speculation, inventory prep, not to mention that it probably allows for temporarily holding on to stolen ships between play sessions. And yes I want decorations not as a cosmetic but as a way of working towards something. Most MMO endgames eventually become fashion after all. Yes all local storage will be accessed by freight elevator or item bank
If they get Vulkun and if I get for fps I am fine with it and I also want server recovery I was never excited about cargo Unless I can get persional hangers in space stations
My problem is my biggest ship currently own with real world money is a C1 and they already give me shitty hangars for the ship size and clearly needs a larger hangar. Why cant a mechanic be implemented that if you buy a larger ship with real money you also get a hangar upgrade with the larger ship. Would the best way to get around this currently is to upgrade your pledge ship to a larger ship to solidify the hangar upgrade and size before the new patch rolls through and then just downgrade back to the fleet you want once your hangar size is locked in? If that’s possible I don’t mind melting down a few of my other ships and upgrading my pledge package to the carrack temporarily till the patch drops
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The distribution centers make sense to me. The way I see it, product or commodity made or mined in the far reaches of Pyro is packed up and loaded onto a Hull C for shipment to a whole other star system, Stanton. Hull C makes its long journey across Pyro and through the jump point to Stanton. Once in Stanton, it takes a route from one space station to the next, dropping cargo to one or many. That cargo is split up at the stations and sent down to the distribution centers, on the planets, the regional distribution center, one might call them, in C2s and Caterpillars. Those shipments are again broken down and shipped out to the different outposts, both on the planet and its moons, in Hull As, A1s, etc.
Then, in reverse, those outposts, like Shubin mining outposts, have cargo that needs to be shipped the reverse direction. Small cargo from outpost to distribution center. Small cargos are combined into medium cargos and sent to stations. Mediums combined to larges and sent across the system or beyond. They can also start doing small cargo missions, sending mining commodities from mining outposts to processing outposts. Not sure why they never started doing that before. They could make a small to medium cargo mission today, where you pickup a cargo load from a Shubin mining outpost and take it to a Shubin processing facility on another moon or a station, with what they have today.
I wouldn't want to be working or living at an outpost if the local hauler delivered by A1
Multiple distribution centers handling the distribtion of products across a planet make way more sense than a single space station handling all the interplanetary trade and all the distribution for a planet.
Im at the 9:16 point of this video and I have a few comments: Mike says "they should have just delayed the patch but they didnt bc of the ship sale" but he doesnt remember when we had a literal year of no patches bc the upcoming kept getting delayed.CIG is making a huge point to make 4 patches a year even if they are small, this patch wasnt released JUST for the ship sale, its not like they couldnt just add new ships in a 3.22.x patch.
Also Mike is bored bc he has had access to 3.23 for... a month now? He def is a biased voice here, which is cool. Shows the difference between an Evo and someone who isnt.
They said they would do 4 a year but I don’t think there was one year they achieved that. They said they would do staggered dev to improve dev time but that was binned off years later.
Let’s not forget the issue here is never the backer it’s cig not doing things in a sensible amount of time.
No one wants deadlines but truth is sometimes we need deadlines.
@@Eagle6Airsoft I think the only year they missed 4 quarterly patches was 2 years ago when they announced they were going to miss the patch bc PES was such a monster.
They are doing staggered development, its an internal process - the team thats finishing 3.23 will begin work/has started 3.25 and the team that released 3.22 is going to release 3.24.
Thats what the go-no go meetings are though, deadlines. The fact that this cargo update isnt in the .0 patch shows that CIG is respecting deadlines instead of missing quarterly target completely.
@@TheMonkey55 twist and twist and twist, you could work for cig with that level of obfuscation. Cig and backers conveniently forgetting the years of late patches when you want to. Cig has missed and pushed back so many patches not to mention the fact that that they will gut a patch just to be able to get one “technically” out the door while trying to tell
You, well you wouldn’t want it “rushed”.
No, I wanted it done right and on time in the first place. As per their own internal estimates.
Remember the only dates set are set by cig, they have set there own dates and missed them from day one. Yet the backers the problem for complaining. Manage expectations better.
@@Eagle6Airsoft I dont think CIG has ever blamed the backers for complaining?
I def get the feeling you dont understand project management and thats fine. Even the light patches they release benefit the game, so breaking into a new branch every quarter is always a good idea.
@@TheMonkey55they 100 have and did. They called us too noisy and distracting them multiple times as excuse for not meeting deadlines.
I am so sick to death of hearing "it's a challenge", "we're struggling", "we're not sure where to go from here".
How in the world is it not time, after 12 years, to hire people that can ACTUALLY do this? People have had no problem half completing something they were paid to make and then just completely dumping the project and leave the company, so why are they so afraid of firing people that are producing next to no results?
If you hired a mechanic to build you a race car, gave them 3 years to do it, and they REPEATEDLY tell you they're facing challenges and aren't sure what to do and have extended the time to build the car to 12 years would you keep this mechanic? This is beyond absurd at this point. All of the hand flailing and esoteric verbiage is a sign of someone who has no idea what the hell they are doing.
No, I don't know how game development works, I don't know the ins and outs, but I DO know body language, I SEE lying on resumes when seeking employees, and I KNOW incompetence when I see it; whether it's in the form of game development or something else. I also know that it's been 12 entire years and the live environment is still hardly any different to what it was 6 years ago, and if you have to keep HARPING this diatribe EVERY WEEK of "our team is so talented and blah blah blah" then maybe we need to take a lesson out of Tywinn Lannister's book. "A man who says he is King is no king at all."
Just lie to me at this point if the news is going to be this consistently terrible for the next 10 fucking years of development.
took the words right out of my mouth. more people really need to start speaking up about the sheer incompetence this studio enables. it's time to boycott. hard.
Other studios would not delay the patch, they would have never told you about the feature till it was 100% green lit to go live. Then a patch would go out for an event or sell. I have not worked on any live service game that did not have hard release dates whose scope had to be adjusted to fit that date.
I dont see us using the C2 to make 30 small runs to outposts to pick up a few SCU at a time. It could be expensive to maintain and fuel and staff a ship that size.
I see us using the freelancer and such to go out and gather that stuff and bring it to the C2. Or just deal in bulk
Honestly I could see you taking the freelancer or something of the same size to make a bunch of stops and pick up all the small orders to bank in the hangar for a time when demand rises. If we can store cargo in the home hanger it's essentially like playing stocks.
Other studios don’t communicate what’s in a patch until it’s Locked in, so you don’t know what actually was moved out of a patch.
also they put out more than one patch a year
From my understanding, distribution centers are owned by a faction. So they're either a collection center for nearby resource extraction/manufacturing to then send into the larger trade ecosystem, or where they pull resources from the larger trade ecosystem and then distribute it among their nearby faction outposts. Like most companies are going to have their own warehouses to track and store their products and aren't going to rely entirely on renting space in the dockyard of an international trade port.
Also, I'm not sure the LEOs could handle the volume of all the last mile transactions for a single planet by themselves. Even if one ship can quickly go from station to final destination planetside, the station can't necessarily handle hundreds of simultaneous ships arriving and departing. It can, however handle a few large ships that break that load up into more locations that can in turn support more trading across all of them simultaneously. Maybe that'd just mean more LEO stations around a planet, but it's not unreasonable that a huge planetside instillation would be cheaper to build and maintain than an equally huge orbital instillation.
1:24:28 we need outposts and DC's to have a finite amount of space and items they can hold
I am Jacks complete lack of surprise
I am Jack's smirking revenge 😏
I am Jack's cargo elevator. I get desync and kill Jack.
His name was Robert Paulson
Lack of surprise at...?
@@vorpalrobot first rule is we can't talk about it
So long term, if they add a hanger upgrade path. But you automatically are assigned a hangar for free based on the biggest ship you own, essentially if you buy a idris now, you will be gifted for free the “end game” size hanger for free. That’s not pay 2 win at all is it. How much will it cost a starter ship owner upgrading hangers over time. Don’t get me wrong I want the progression, I want to grind and unlock bigger hangers, the issue is not that game play loop it’s that someone else has spent money to skip it.
Yeah this is really suspicious to me. Surely they realise how dumb it is to make hangar size based on what's owned at the time it's assigned, so this really seems like a sneaky cash grab.
@@Turbovolver I mean that would be the icing on the cake wouldn’t it, upgrades showing on the store front. But I suspect there cash grab to be more subtile. People will soon realise buying a bigger ship gets your a bigger hanger and the melts will beginning to make sure they have at least one of the largest ship.
Meanwhile it will be just another thing played down as meaningless “it’s just like lti, it doesn’t really mean anything”. Yet people are getting entire hulls gifted back for free when another person doesn’t.
I mean, this is the problem with cig actually starting to build out this game, have they built a rod for there own back with regards to selling so much on the “pledge” store. And we haven’t even gotten to land claims yet!
I always said the low hanging tech would come earlier than the meaty stuff. The Hangars and Freight Elevators were always going to be transformative. I predict were going to get tier 0 of the hangars and elevators about 3 weeks to a month after the base 3.23 patch and a couple of hot-fixes.
I predict 3 years
2 years away
two more weeks
I predict 4 more videos of how it works and showing it work in game, then 2 years until it launches. Let’s see tho lol
I have always been puzzled by why they haven't done something with the Journal alerts. Even if they weren't wired into the whole Tony Z. economy thing, they have them working now. It would be so easy to have the system suddenly alert everyone that there is a substantial discount or paying substantially more on a particular commodity at a particular location that if you hurry, you can make really good profit. I could see cargo people staying glued to those Journal alerts, ready to jump on the latest deal. That literally could be a weekends worth of dev work to add and it would be ongoing compelling game play, that would pit players against each other, that could be put on autopilot. Build some story telling into it about medical supplies being needed desperately, due to Nine Tails attacks in the sector, or Processed Food being low in a sector due to pirate activity, etc..
That's not just a weekend's worth of dev work, since the alerts have to pull from object containers that may not be streamed in or regularly updated, so it requires an over-arching system to monitor entry changes on commodities across the verse. So it would be pulling more network resources than what it does now, which is sort of what the economy team is partially working on. But it's also why the Tony Z system is so important to have in concert with server meshing.
We need basic guild/friends functionality. Permissions, ranks, etc. Orgs buy rights to DC's getting first dibs on better sell/buy prices at the DC. No limit to how many Orgs can buy rights but the more/less with rights changes how big of a piece of the pie you can get making people branch out to other DCs. Miners/hunters etc. in the area might stop bringing their goods to that dc if the volume of a certain item is really high plummeting the sell price. More volume going through the DC could also make rights more expensive pushing orgs out of competition. If we had ranks, permissions and actual roles with functionality it'd be cool if you as a 'distribution manager' in your org with assigned jurisdiction over a specific DC can setup trade routes for the org from the dc to other outposts or maybe you only have permissions to set buy/sell requests here. Which would spawn contracts for your org members that they can take, complete and earn rep in the org. The org leaders could assign different tiers of rep, rewards and permission unlocks allowing the use of org ships, vehicles and assets so they can continue to put more work into the org and move up the ranks. Eventually a player may become a very reputable hauler within that org and because they have a tangible proof of their work the org may request them to do inter system trade routes or high risk jobs through hostile areas. That player's personal reputation as a hauler becomes more 'certified/reputable'. If they outgrow the org they can branch out to bigger things if they wish to.
This Shit is Missing since atleast 8 years and should be so fucking easy to imolement ffs
@@sirbonobo3907 Except it's not, because it's tied to object container and entity authority management, which is network dependent, which has been overhauled multiple times due to database changee, replication, entity culling, and server meshing. If they implemented org features eight years ago they would have had to refactor them every single time they imeplemented a new major tech feature.
I only need a ingame deathnote. Or a real bounty board.
Regarding the trade routes. I think you may can see it this way. The LEO and other stations work solely on a stellar system scale. When we have more systems in the game, it even becomes bigger. This means that the LEO's doesn't have the capacity to repackage that large amount of cargo to smaller stations. Instead it just reshuffles the 32/24 SCU containers to different DC's or directly to the cities, that then work on a planetary scale. This is also why we would have different DC's around the planet. Because they work in different regions of the planetary system. From here, stuff is distributed to larger or smaller stations, including on the moons, where the final scale is individual packages ie. the FedEx driver in SC.
Make remote locations pay more but accept smaller amounts of freight. That might make the different hulls more useful in different scenarios
When they say we have to take into account our starting location. Will more planeta have surface entrances like New Babb, or will I always pick MicroTech because of the surface entrance and the easy of going to the comms.
As for the cargo ship sizes and always using a C2, might be a lot of fuel and time to run around and load/unload S1, S2 boxes. The smaller places might not have enough to fil the hull of a C2 and you are flying everywhere trying to be efficient but a smaller ship can to A to B quicker and cheaper?
I didnt catch it, but just to be sure - did they ask/answer the question about what will happen if you get a "medium sized hangar" when spawning in the first time, but then mid-patch buy a Large ship? What happens to the size of your hangar?
Great episode. I will always prefer they hold features back and get them right rather than rushing them in half done and broken. Good call by the team. Chad seems like he knows exactly what he's doing. I don't mind waiting longer for this massive change to come in correct.
Around 20:35 ish talking about players not in your party getting into your hanger: Could add a security checkpoint near the elevator. Player(s) that are not in your party are unable to pass through the security checkpoint gate and unable to mess with or steal any of your items in the hanger before said timer is up. Even if they try to body block the gate, the timer will remove them shortly. This way you do not have to worry about randos running in your elevator and then charging into your hanger and taking items or crashing your ship, ect.
i work in a distribution center. it makes perfect sense. a distribution center does alot more than you think with consolidating, breaking packages down ect. they are absolutely necessary. the space stations are like your ports which dont deal with consolidating smaller packages. the size of these places are irrelevant.
Just because ships can quantum jump is again based on costs and efficiency. you can load up a big cargo plane and fly it to a destination in 1/10 of the time but its not as efficient
Ports will deal in small boxes though, Mike is being stupid again and talking over himself instead of listening to the Q&A.
Port stations like Everus will be able to go UP to the larger size SCU crates, not only deal in those.
What's being limited is places like outposts that can only deal in 1 and 2 size SCU boxes
@@IchigoKurosaki011 well half of mikes takes dont really make sense lol
RIP RMC runs from Rappel, Picker's Field, and Dunboro... unless you are flying a small cargo ship, but it makes sense because making 2 mil per run was OP.
In RL our cargo system works much like he is talking about, let’s use the mail for an example. From your house to the post office a small vehicle is used, then from the post office it gets sorted by destination. Then it gets taken to a larger, regional distribution center it is then put on trucks to got to another regional distribution center to reverse the process. This system sounds the same, to make the trips worth the money to do, small vessels would move stuff too and from small locations to the distribution centers then either to another distribution center for “local” planetary distribution or consolidate it into one large shipment to go up to the space station from there it would further consolidate depending on final destination. Sure there could be something like UPS, FedEx or DHL that can do more direct shipping but they all have the same functions in place.
37:04 Mike, new game loop!! Star Movers, Empire Movers, Colonial Movers (a shout out to Battlestar Galactica) - just a few company names. The process: create beacon or use whatever mission creation mechanism CIG develops to ask for a player cargo hauler to move your gear from your digs (example...) at A18 to your new digs at MT. Set a payout (what's it worth to you to move your crap?). If no PCs take your contract within, say, 30 minutes, an NPC mover does it for what you put in your contract offer but with some minimum amount so people don't game the system and pay 1aEUC for a move. There are other possible ways to develop the loop such as whether you pack your stuff in xSCU boxes for the mover or if it is an auto-pack system. However the cargo crates get loaded, the moving company comes to your hangar (you don't have to be there) and retrieves the boxes, moves them to the destination and unloads them at a Distro Center. After some delay (15 minutes?), your stuff is at your new hangar and when you go to your new hangar, you see all your stuff where it was in the old hangar...
There are many ways this loop could be built, but it's an engagement factor for cargo professionals to enjoy.
The station receives bulk orders and sends bulk orders. The distribution center receives said bulk orders and splits it into individual orders to distribute on the planet. It's akin to ups or amazon sorting centers. A station doesn't have the logistical capacity to send small orders even if it's one jump away. DC's are designed to sort and allocate bulk as a specialty so they aren't giving out bulk all too much, though maybe I'm wrong for sc
1:06:35 I really like this actually! In terms of what Mike said about still being able to use big ships at outpost; yeah you can, but the advantage of the bigger ship is outweighed by the time-sink of having to MANUALLY load it with "1 or 2 SCU sized boxes". I think the idea of what Chad was saying is if I'm flying my C2 I'm going to the locations that allow me to load 32SCU boxes and then buy potentially lower value commodities but in much bigger volumes, whereas if I'm going to a small outpost to buy gold or quant and I take my Cutty or my C1 I can probably only buy 30 SCU (and it's in 1 or 2 SCU sized boxes) at that location anyway and those smaller ships will get me in and out so much faster than a CAT or a C2 would.
For the smaller packages to make a difference they would need to be in places that are more difficult or costly for larger ships to get to. Ex: small outposts planet side, stations in the middle of dense astroid fields, dangerous areas where stealth is more viable than a knock down drag out fight. Then smaller ships could take those to buyers, hubs, or mission targets.
Also, in atmosphere travel and leaving the atmosphere should be more costly for fuel and wear and tear on ships. Hopefully we'll see this change happen if/when the atmosphere model gets introduced. This would also make a space for ground vehicles as they would consume orders of magnitude less fuel.
Thinking its more like a highway when they are talking about trade route
so they would have a giant cargo on a main line run going a certain route while the smaller cargo ships are a little more flexible for locations
I am in an Org currently and there are people in the Org that I would not want to have access to my inventory. It goes back to the level of power as a party for example. I do not think Org 2.0 would fix the issue at hand here.
Yes. Knowing that allowing a stranger into a party gives them so much access will make people think twice. True, someone can be kicked - but that will be only after they've misbehaved and damage is done. Trust and then verify or verify and then trust is the decision people will face.
It was always going to be a point patch release, and even then, NOT just a single point patch either. The changes required were just too big, and too broadly across the board, affecting or being affected by other systems in the game. Basically they wanted to avoid another 3.18 "Moment"
Yep, and yet people were just losing their minds about it on reddit/spectrum. Those same people would be losing their minds if they would be unable to play the game at all because you cannot leave the hangar at all.
@@Billy-bc8pk LoL, These are the people who are never satisfied with what they have (and believe themselves to be more knowledgeable than the Devs, as what the games requires in order to be what it 'should' be) and barely use the half of it!!
When the dev said we have to figure out a way to make this stuff work in the economy means 2 things.
1. Tony Z and quanta is not happening, because they seems to redoing the whole economy from zero
2. They are still bringing stuff before designing the economy first.
I like the idea of Hull D/E running routes to/from the system jump gate stations. The Hull C maybe could run to/from LEOs and Jump Gate stations. C2/Cat runs to distribution centers and main city. Smaller cargo can be ran from LZ to POI or something within the planet
I am wondering about places like Dunboro and Picker's Field, Astor's Clearing etc. Vis a Vis manual v automatic cargo loading.
My head cannon for cargo lanes and how DCs fit in is this:
Villages/Bases/outposts = irl residential doorstep. Starter/small cargo ships (and possibly even ground vehicles🤞 depending on distance, weather, terrain and road access) deliver small quantities of specific goods.
Planetary landing pads = distribution centers for said doorsteps. Medium cargo ships deliver medium quantities of various goods from the new larger DCs.
New DCs & major landing zones = distribution centers for the regional planetary landing pads. Large vessels capable of planetary landing travel between DCs and in-system space stations
Space stations = irl ports. Largest vessels travel to and from other stations and systems
I don't personally see the new DCs as illogical or redundant even though they are essentially DCs for DCs. Not only will they likely be responsible for fabricating some goods of their own considering their corporate ownership, but also in a world of this scale it seems natural to have to add another stop. Not only does this give every sized cargo ship a role to play, but it would also help to more efficiently organize incoming and outgoing goods.
All that said, I don't think ships of certain sizes should/will be limited to these specific roles, I just think this is how they will be operated most efficiently.
I see the trade routes as, small/medium ships do the distribution and moves small cargo from outposts and distro stations, to the space stations. The larger ships move large quantities of cargo between stations. And then XL ships move extra large quantities (and more) between systems.
Also feel like larger ships would consume too much fuel to have to fly down in atmo, vs lighter ships. (Sure fuel prices will become a factor too)
So even if you PLEDGE a larger ship after the fact, you're still strapped with the hangar size you started with. Unfortunate, but at least the store is also effected.
For the ideas you were having about 1:15 minutes in. My thought is having priority cargo routes that are for small amounts of cargo direct from location to location, or station to surface, that pay a bonus based on how fast you finish the delivery.
idk where i want to start now, i wanted to spawn in orison cause the elevators will allow ground vehicles to be able to spawn but if i cant change it this patch idk
1:15:20 I love how Mike completely forgot that we'll be able to choose what kind of size SCU containers we purchase stuff in, and that in this Q&A we're being told that those stations can go UP to that size. The only thing limited is outposts dealing in 1 and 2 scu size boxes
Not to mention we already have the reclaimer allowing us to choose what size cargo we print our boxes in lol
I’m fairly new to star citizen but I was trying to figure out the solution to making smaller cargo ships more relevant once you have the bigger C2 and etc. But I believe the systems are already right in our face. With engineering on the way you would have to crew to your ship with more players which would lower your profit. Also, with having a bigger profile and possibility for more loot you are a bigger target for pirates as well. Not to mention the maneuverability and pad sizes, having a bigger ship for these smaller 1-3 SCU runs seems like a hassle. I do believe more systems will be put in place but I think we are going to have pretty good reasons to travel light soon
Maybe this is an idea: you can load or unload at freight elevators in hangars yes but also down on freight decks can consolidate or break your SCU of cargo - so players can manually decide to pack 1SCU into 32 SCU boxes and vice versa
Currently after you enter an elevator and select a destination the elevator can still open again to allow someone else into the elevator.
To the point of distribution centers, The need for a distro center is only required because of space. You need room for all the cargo. Also, buildings on a planet are easier than massive space stations.
Exactly, even our Sea Port doesn't store all the shipments, they already need the storage space for loading and unloading the cargo from and onto ships. A one glance at an LEO station, would suggest that they can't hold a great amount of cargo in place.
I would treat DC as literal distribution centers/warehouse. Not all commodities are to be delivered to customer immediately. There are items that would be stockpiled and will be moved according to demands. There is no way an LEO station could store that many amount of cargo...4 Hull C delivery and it would be full...looking at it size..
@@fajarn7052 This makes me want orbital stations that operate as warehouses that are just enormous. A sea of containers. Would be cool to dog fight in and around.
@fajarn7052 Go actually fly around the container storage areas. They are utterly massive already. NOT a few Hull-C shipments. You are probably still right, and that gives plenty reason for DCs to exist, but there is tens of thousands of crates if not hundreds of thousands.
Stations DO need to accept shipments from Hull-E's. Stanton having entire planets bought for ship and weapon manufacturing will certainly have Hull-E shipments.
@@jackinthebox301 That would be pretty cool
56:30 "tractor beams in personal hangar" - means you can drop 8scu container on a trespasser. I once killed myself trying to fit an extra couple of 1scu boxes in Vulture. So probably trespasser can do the same...hmm..
to me cargo seems to relate very similarly to airports and air freight. Having worked at both a FBO and several Airlines (Delta, American, FedEx and Amazon) doing freight. basically larger craft require larger airports. I believe the Airlines hub and spoke concept is where we have our thought of how Distribution Centers would or should work. So running larger ships with cargo with multiple final destinations and then have the small to medium ships do the typical final mile deliveries unless they have us using ground vehicles to do first/last mile deliveries with in the DC. I would also like to see missions where there is on demand freight where its not scheduled and you go point to point, and have them at random times this would justify possibly using a larger ship depending on what the load is. I do hope they change it to where the first and final mile deliveries actually matter most of the time.
Expanding on the why distro centers should still have the same last mile feeling as todays distro centers is related to the size and cost. Owning a giant space station for storing materials would in theory be much more expensive than having a surface area for that item storage. The stations are your ports of transit focused on getting cargo moved where the distro centers can have more of a warehouse roll. Along with the larger cheaper warehouse roll the distro center also makes sense to be the location that can repack items and take those 32 1 scu crates and make it one 32scu crate and vise versa where the station would again be a trade hub focused on getting cargo in and out and not that warehouse/distro center role.
58:00
Tell me this guy doesn't live in California because his reasoning why at 58 minutes sounds exactly like what a Californian would say on Crime.
@14:34 - Mike, imo eptu IS THE PURPOSE of having 3.18 testing it and being able to fix untill PU. A reminder 3.18 was on LIVE service fcked as hell.
@22:57 you have so much unused space @spaceports, make another type of 'store' - detention chamber, can be instanced, to store thieves for few minutes;
@26:00 - allowing ppl to acces hangars of group members will discourage ppl from making random groups. There should be additional UI element to allow/forbid accessing random ppl hangars and inventory.
They could delay the patch and simply release Theatres of War instead, but that would actually require CIG to not have lied about Theatres of War existing in the first place all those years ago.
That would keep us occupied while they polish the supposedly existant content we've been deprived of in this now supposedly 'gutted' 3.23(5.3) patch.
Bruv, ToW was being developed by a contracted 3rd party dev studio. That studio got bought and the contract for ToW died in the acquisition. CIG optimistically thought they'd be able to get to it at some point, but clearly that didn't work out. They didn't lie. Plans had to change. It wasn't malicious. Would you rather have SQ42 finished and those devs moved to SC or ToW?
@@jackinthebox301 Rich.
@@jrddoubleu514 Rich. Or, you know, being a reasonable human being.
@@jackinthebox301Sure man. Just do yourself and everyone else a favor and leave the excuse makng to CIG.
You're not being paid for it.
'I'm a reasonable human hur- dur-hur' 😆
@@jrddoubleu514 Its honestly pretty easy. My life satisfaction doesn't revolve around the promises of a corporation over which I have no control. You should try it sometime.
man the cargo elevators and missions were the thing i was really looking forward to
I'm very interested in how this is going to work when base building is eventually implemented. Imagine if instead of spawning ships in, you had a massive sort of "garage" where every ship you have is stored physically and they're persistent/don't despawn, so you could run around and just look at all your ships like it's a ship showroom. That would be awesome.
That's also a massive memory sink. Not saying it won't ever happen, but it's not a very resource considerate feature.
@@Billy-bc8pk Yes, but keep in mind the eventual idea behind dynamic server meshing is that vacant areas are going to be streamed out. So if a player isn't at their base, you can offload that area. Maybe the overall hit on memory wouldn't be too bad. Idk, I'm not a software engineer.
@@LargeGamer1if everybody had a space where all the ships where out display that would get out of hand very quickly
The only way to keep players from using their large cargo ships in small locations is to not allow them to land there.
That aside I'd like to know how CIG is going to stop trolls from yeeting your boxes away while manually loading at outposts. If the cargo hauler can use their tractor beam so can anyone else and just like with those players that love to stowaway on your ships, there will be tons of trolls and pirates that'll steal your boxes, only you can't even shoot them at outposts and even uf you could, you'd be the one stuck with CS.
You know there are Hangars at those structures lining the avenue approach to the Jump Portal
1:36:10 "but not corpses" - right. You can make corpses, you can blow, tow and throw them, but not attach to the cargo grid. How polite.
The explanation for 'why' is fine in a vacuum. In the wider context of how beleaguered the "cargo refactor" rollout has been, in the context of persistent hangars being a 3.18 card that got pulled that still isn't ready a year later, in the context of how long this has all been drug out, I'm still not thrilled. Okay, so it wasn't ready for 3.23.0. Why, after all this time, is it still not ready? Bc looking at the monthly reports and shit, it's hard to see how they have not just lied about how long this was worked on. They told us the hangars were going to be in 3.18 and then February of this year the monthly report laid out that they had barely even started fucking with instancing. So while the 'why' makes sense in a vacuum, it doesn't make me feel better knowing they lied about having been working on it, knowing all those prior cases of it slipping or becoming a 'separate deliverable' were not because it wasn't ready but because they hadn't started. I'm just tired of being misled. Chad told me on spectrum last fall that they'd just started working on tractor beams, while the progress tracker had shown USPU working on it for a year prior. I'm fucking tired of being misled.
They said 'weeks, not months.' But we didn't see these features at all, not in evo, not in PTU. We don't know what state they're in. We only have the word of people who have lied to us about the state they were in before. I don't care what they say until it's in PTU and I can see it with my own eyes, honestly. I'd be annoyed if this is how patches work going forward (which realistically it already is) bc it just lets them keep underdelivering while making it look like "oh look how much we did in [patch]." Idk. I just want them to start delivering. I don't think they can.
Also yeah I absolutely do care about calling vehicles in the freight elevator bc it's still so much easier to call ground vehicles on a separate lift and drive them onto your already parked ship than it is to juggle shit around.
Regarding the Distribution Centers, the only reason I can argue for their existence is that a corporation may want control of its own logistics, and don't want to for instance pay cargo and storage fees at the LEO. So for instance if you're Sakura Sun, you may want your own Distribution on your own, owned piece of land, because it makes more sense for your specific storage needs, you can control the whole pipeline. So DC's existing does actually make sense to me. Nothing to do with spaceships and quantum, corporations will always prefer situations where they can control the logistical pipeline.
Now knowing Star Citizen, DC's will be used for 50,000 different uses and not represent safety or logistics at all, so I don't doubt they'll fuck it up one way or another.
47:39 This needs to be discussed in detail way way more. If you’re talking about using internal voice comms is there a system wide comm, galaxy wide comm? I want SC to push away meta gaming and external communication.
1:13:59 I think the smaller more agile ships will serve the “later game role” of moving either extremely high value cargo or time sensitive cargo. It’s very similar to what we used to do in EVE. Freighters move bulk to stationary locations. Smaller cargo runners are outfitted to run blockades, reapply carriers, and rearm capital ships that are rotating out of combat zones.
I want a spot in the Hangar where I can park a vehicle I bring up on the elevator. or several vehicles.
One way to discourage the use the big ships is making locations inaccessible to them or at least very inconvenient. You can do that with geography and location structure. For example, an outpost in the middle of a forest or a rock formation.
separating the box sizes means smaller ships will be able to focus on the small boxes and bigger ships might not see value in traveling a longer distance to pick up small boxes.
then because smaller ships have access to smaller jump areas to get to other locations they might be better for higher risk small volatile cargo. a bigger ship probably would not want to deal with hundreds of explosive boxes ect if it might ruin their whole haul if it goes bad.
So, The Asteriod Hangar is gone forever?
Nope. Asteroid bases required more R&D, they mentioned it last year. Probably won't get those back until after base building is in.
what happened at 3.18 ??
I can't believe I watched that WHOLE video! Proof I can have a long attentions span if the content is worthwhile.
Is reclaimer considered XL or L?
Would really have preferred 3.23 to be delayed to wait for the cargo work but there's bound to be features in 3.23 that underpin fleet week and ship sales and, if true, it was inevitable it would be split like this.
It would be interesting to see a situation where what you see is a difference in trade routes between Raw materials vs Commodities. So For Raw materials it might be from LEO/Refinery/Etc. > LEO > DC all in large sizes, where Commodities (finished products) would be DC > LEO > LEO > Destination or DC > Destination if on the same planet, and then DC > LEO and LEO > DC is Large sizes (24/32scu), but DC/LEO > Destination is smaller, so commodities would get dispersed in smaller quantities directly from LEOs, but raw materials would be in larger sizes.
Have you tried ground vehicles in the 3.23 patch?! They teleport all over the place then you end up upside down!
This is one of my favorite Jared shows. Good info here. And I don't care what any haters think...
Hell yeah. Tell those haters how much you don't care. Not even a little bit at all.
I watched this live but watching the video now when you are talking about cargo ships, and where is the value in small ones and whats the point b/c the C2 can do everything. I don't think we considered also enginneering will be a thing. So while a C2 can do it, with engineering would it be beneficial? Or would it be better to just roll in my C1 solo and not have to manage as such. Granted a big part of that also relates to if you are being attacked or not. Which if you aren't then it's probably less of a factor, but on the flip side a larger cargo ship is probably more enticing to pirates vs something small like a C1, Freelancer, Cutty, etc.
I really need them to work out some good solution for vehicle items to be loaded as cargo. Right now, salvaging things like guns and components is more trouble than they are worth, because of the storage hassle of having a buncha items jumping around your cargo bay, sparking and loading up your ship with hit points. I wish they had pallets, that could have items connected to them and then the pallet would be attachable to the cargo grid. Maybe a pallet that had weapon hardpoints that guns could attach to. Pallets that have missile racks. Pallets that have gun racks. I was really hoping the new cargo boxes we can now buy would allow us to drag these items into them, but I haven't been able to get that to work.
Sounds like character repair would be a good way to reassign hangar size...
I like this Q&A. At least they sound transparent and sincere on the reasons why.
How i understand the Balance with the boxes is that, if you can only get small boxes, you might not wanna spend ages un/loading all those small boxes to buy/sell them + as he said the fee and time will be higher if you have small boxes
I think of dc’s as “org personal hangers” for a lack of a better term. They keep and ship things from there where they have total control over their cargo
delivering large loads in space keeps larger ships from costly entering and exiting of planets. distribution centers on surfaces are for storing products that are delivered. even if we have space ships what your saying is products needs to be delivered directly to where they need to go without any backup storage anywhere. there could be enough supplies stashed on a planet to provide services for a year. yes you could potentially have hundreds of space drop offs to hold your goods but eventually you will have cluttered space around your planet blocking travel. like going to a beach and realizing there are 1500 boat docks with ships on the coastline blocking your entrance.
So just to be clear, what he's saying is in the initial release my personal hangar will only be big enough to fit a Cutter, but players who spent more on the pledge store will get bigger hangars. I get that they haven't sorted the hangar upgrade features yet, but in that case why not just default everyone to having the largest personal hangar until you've got those features in? Coz as it stands this makes my personal hangar basically pointless.
25:24 org and such is probably hold back by server meshing. And it’s a quality of life feature and not necessarily for now.
I'm hoping that eventually there will be a way for a criminal to basically hide thier identity. This would allow them to dock in a safe zone. At the same time a bounty hunter if tracking that player finds them in a safe zone, but hidden in thier hanger. They could walk up to a guard by the hanger elevators and say here is my paper work have you seen this guy. If that player(criminal) used an elevator near that guard. The guard can inform the bounty hunter yes, he is at hanger 21. Then the bounty hunter can go there without being trespassed. Of course a criminal station might not inform you of this. Or maybe there could be some kind of rep system for each station. If your rep is higher then the criminals, they guards will tell you.
Just put a force shield across the elevator door that only party members can walk through
Let the owner set the specific entry settings. Solo - Party - Anyone. Lawful / Unlawful. Various other options they could do.
Has jared had a stroke?
meh...
so, everyone atm has tons of hangars because every ship pledge contains a hangar.
but they'll give you only the biggest and the others - please buy....
Fingers crossed for a .1 release but maybe it's like 3.17.2 and is fairly big (100player count, ghost hollow, and stations have hangars instead of landing pads) that got into ptu in mid July and released in August.
at 29:30 did they just kill the game?
Just delay the whole patch till it can come out as a whole. It gives MM more time in the oven, it gives UI chance to make necessary changes or spruce up things they aren't happy with, gives Animation time to move forward with the Zero-G team on additional animation/push pull, etc. If you delay the whole patch, you have a more cohesive and stable base for everything as a whole, not just them rushing to get Cargo/Hangars out for 3.23.1/3.23.2, etc.
Also, the lack of moving off the rip is kind of a bummer. I like living out at MIC-L1 for the fog/asteroids. Every wipe, I throw all my stuff in my ship, fly out, dump it all off, and then claim all my ships over there. So knowing I miss out on the personal hangar by wanting to do that kind of sucks.
I also agree with a necessity to make living on your ship more feasible. Maybe allow players to place/decorate with items as PURELY DECORATIVE, removing them from the inventory and removing their functionality, but binding them to that X/Y/Z on the ship as part of a "layout", so that way if you do die, you can just load the "layout" and have your ship fully decorated again, leaving you to only have to stock food, new guns in your racks, etc. That would make the idea of living on your ship a lot less of a tedious feeling, if you blow up/die.
I completely see your point on distribution centers vs stationary ports being the last mile. What may throw a loop in this is that cheaper planetary only ships might be used from dist. centers rather than quantum capable ships jumping from planatery stations direct to points on the planet. Most likely, these quantum capable ships won't be as available as cheaper atmo only ships or train systems etc... and therefore dist. centers could make sense as the last mile or a hop between stations. having a quantum capable ship deliver direct to a final location would be much more expensive... sort of like using fedex aircraft vs fedex trucks... just my 2 cents. No way it would be cost effective for instance to have a c2 deliver directly to client, but instead from station to dist. center. Even smaller ships like cutters wouldn't be cost effective to fly 30 of them from station to direct point... you would have hundreds of ships. I think this would more than likely mirror our current systems more than they wouldn't. Yes there are no current trains etc... but this is how i see it working.
As for the jukebox being able to play your own music; there are broadcast rules in different countries. In Canada you need a broadcast license to play TV/Music that the "public" hears. So let's say you have another user join your hanger and they are listening to your son playlist. Legally, you would have to have a broadcast license in order to do that. Frankly, I don't blame CIG for not wanting to get into that circus. That's just for broadcasting, then you have arstis who want their cut every time you listen to one of their sons (like radio stations have to do). How do you calculate that?
I think people at the hanger piracy issue in present state vs the options provided by future state. Sure, you want people to be able to raid hangers. So make that a thing in lawless space. Stanton has security and laws? Pyro does not. So if you make your spawn point in Pyro you are down for piracy. If you make your home in Stanton then you want the benifits of the security systems in place.
I think hangar size should be tied to rep or something. Work for it. Happy people can drop money on ships to support the game but we need to have more things tied to actual gameplay and rep. So even if you buy all the big ships, you gotta sweat to get that nice big boss hangar via trading, fighting, even exploration or something.
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Starting off, I gotta say I’m starting to hate the misuse of ‘LEO’ as much as I hate ‘bespoke’. It should be something like ‘LOS’ (low orbit station’) and ‘OEM’. (I don’t have to explain that one, right?) There, soapbox concluded.
1:17:00 Generally, I agree. I see the station as the terminal for inter-station transport, an orbital distribution center, if you will. I see the distribution center planet-side as central hubs on the surface from which local runs originate. When base building and crafting comes online, that’s where resources transit from orbit (LOS) to surface (DC) to point of consumption, and where products transit from PC- or NPC-owned production sites to surface to orbit. However, DCs and LOS facilities should allow all size ships for all size cargo runs. Unlike RL where big oceanic cargo ships and ONLY those big ships operate between seaports, the game should support shipments of all sizes to transit all facilities, from sub-SCU hand-carry-able boxes up through the biggest SCU boxes. What you haul as a player, then, depends on the size of your ship and the available missions. Precious cargo (high-value) might be a 2SCU box moved in an Avenger Titan, for example, from the station at Port Tressler to a DC on Hurston. This could be a target of opportunity for pirate gameplay…
For what its worth with the box size limits, if I have a C1 that I want to load up, I want my two 32 SCU boxes loaded up then I get gone as quickly as possible, limiting box sizes half defeats the purpose of how that ship exists for cargo as far as I'm concerned.
Also: isn't the Argo RAFT designed specifically to hold 32 SCU containers?
I don't actually get what the advantage of the personal hanger is. ...Just that we can use our decorations again and leave stuff out without it being deleted or moved around? That's not really enough of a game changer to make go down to planet to access it. Are they just deleting local storage altogether and making you get everything from the magic elevator?
Think about how many things you can do on your own terms with it, like stockpiling components, commodity speculation, inventory prep, not to mention that it probably allows for temporarily holding on to stolen ships between play sessions. And yes I want decorations not as a cosmetic but as a way of working towards something. Most MMO endgames eventually become fashion after all. Yes all local storage will be accessed by freight elevator or item bank
Were you going to be playing 3.22.1 mike? Probably not so what is the difference?
I hope for a mission for Argo Cargo ships where you can load NPC'S Hull C. Though I prefer it to be a player ship.
If they get Vulkun and if I get for fps I am fine with it and I also want server recovery I was never excited about cargo Unless I can get persional hangers in space stations
My problem is my biggest ship currently own with real world money is a C1 and they already give me shitty hangars for the ship size and clearly needs a larger hangar. Why cant a mechanic be implemented that if you buy a larger ship with real money you also get a hangar upgrade with the larger ship. Would the best way to get around this currently is to upgrade your pledge ship to a larger ship to solidify the hangar upgrade and size before the new patch rolls through and then just downgrade back to the fleet you want once your hangar size is locked in?
If that’s possible I don’t mind melting down a few of my other ships and upgrading my pledge package to the carrack temporarily till the patch drops
Why is this like listening to someone's testimony to a crime?
Before this SCL I was very worried and annoyed with the push of Cargo stuff in 3.23. After this SCL, I feel much better.
Need an insured closet on your ship where u can store stuff ,, that respawns within your ship on ddesth
Death
Yeah no, accept loss of gear and move on