It should be really easy in game to search for places wanting to buy commodities. No trader in real life would buy a truckload of a commodity and drive around hoping to find a buyer, they would arrange sale before leaving. This should be possible in the game. Enter a menu for trade, search for buyers of a specific commodity and then make an agreement for them to accept your cargo when you get there. Job done.
@@leoormesher2762 i believe thats more how the cargo missions work. this is free form cargo and your where your acting as a bit more of a travelling salesman.
You realistically need a player who is really into spreadsheets and bureaucracy in order to do all the logistics for you. I would, but I do bureaucracy for a living, and I just wanna be a space trucker.
yeah they do that, they said they add things and they will be later connecting it all, but im not sure if this is what you are talking about rn, im just starting the video
It's very apparent that Chris Roberts main focus from 2012 till today was SQ42, hence why we see that in many cases CIG has put the cart before the horse with exception of how they develop the systems for SQ42. I'm convinced that even now they haven't bothered to create any Design Briefs for Gameplay loops, hence why they keep pumping out content that doesn't really fit the scope of the 'intended gameplay'.
I just loooove that the devs have an idea of how the game should be played but it takes bug submissions and forum posts to get them to communicate those ideas
they have a job to do, they can't sit around writing on spectrum all day about stuff that isn't finished/open to change, that would be a waste. Ideas are ideas for a reason
@ironwarr and yet they are on Spectrum all the time. I don’t disagree that it’s a waste of their time. I’d prefer CIG address communication issues proactively and make that someone else’s full-time job
@ironwarr no one is asking them to. Why isn't Jared covering this stuff? How do they expect us to test features if they don't tell us what the feature is supposed to be? This game is WAY too complex and incomplete for them to treat this like it's a fun surprise. It's not.
Scarcity based commodity pricing is what we need. If no one has sold steel to Hurston all day, I want to see offers increase. I want to see NPC haulers. So you could spend time wrecking NPC steel haulers, and then go and sell steel for a premium to that destination because it would be scarce.
@seeker_rodan3113 well maybe they have acquired the steel legally but they purposefully wreck NPC steel haulers to drive up steel prices. The pirated steel they can sell in pyro. A cool way to coordinate in a dynamic economy
@@seeker_rodan3113 I think you missed the point. The point is, if you strangle supply by taking down NPC suppliers, a location will up its prices so you can then sell them purchased or mined commodities at a premium due to scarcity.
there is no real hard restriction they are not going to prevent large ships from trading in whatever cargo you want... its just going to be super inconvenient to have to go to multiple sites with a huge ship just to get a little bit of cargo... its like going to a 7-11 with a transport truck to try to fill it with all their chips.. sure you could do it but if you wanna fill that truck its gonna take you alot of stops at 7-11's to do it.
I totally agree. As someone who spent years working in logistics, I wouldn't send a massive artic (Caterpillar?) to pick up a couple of boxes or a pallet from some family run shop in a little country village somewhere. I'd send a local courier in a sprinter van (Cutter), to bring it back to my nearest transport depot where I'd consolidate it into a bulk container with other groupage cargo. I'd then trunk it to an airport or seaport for loading into a cargo plane (C2) or container ship (Hull-C/D/E? Ironclad?) for international shipping, or to a distribution centre for domestic delivery by more 7.5tonners (Cutty? MSR?) or more sprinters. For something really urgent or high value I'd maybe do it door to door, even internationally across Europe, in a single dedicated courier (Herald? MSR? Zeus?) at a significant premium. It seems like these are the kinds of real world patterns of efficiency and consolidation they're looking to replicate. It honestly sounds pretty cool and like it has lots of gameplay potential, rather than being a hard limit. For example, you and your 4 friends in Pyro jump in a bunch of Cutters and to collect low volume high value cargo from all over the system, a few SCU from outposts all over. You bring those disparate small collections back to one RR station, where together you load it all (safely via freight elevators in private hangars), into something more proportionate to the consolidated volume ... An ironclad maybe, or a Hull series if you've been particularly busy bees... You all crew that larger ship for the flight back to Stanton or Terra, leaving your Cutters at the station. You can then either make a big bulk sale at an orbital or legrange point in Stanton from your bulk carrier, or once again distribute it out onto smaller ships for you each to crew in search of the low volume high value sale. Sounds pretty sweet to me if they can balance the cost and sale prices realistically to the distance, supply, demand, effort etc.
Its a ludricrous design and makes things like base crafting and even shipbuilding look like they will be prohibitively arduous when they actually come out.
I think what they need is a wide variety of cargo boxes/pallets that allow oddly shaped things or small uniformly shaped things, to be combined into a form factor that i compatible with cargo grids. The simplest example being pallets that allow for combining many small cargo boxes into one larger sized cargo box. The most exotic being a pallet that has built in hard points for mounting ship weapons onto a stackable pallet, compatible wit the cargo grid. Could also be done with ship components, where the box/pallet could have mounting points, where ship components could attach to, securing them and making their container stackable and stable.
The reply to the reply was pretty funny. Commentor: it doesn’t make sense to take this sort of risk unless the return on investment is 400%+ Cig dev: best we can offer is 12%
We need that 4x ROI to hire escorts and patrols. I get that they want to balance the game so that trading isn't OP, but if our hiring rates aren't competitive with bounty contracts, then it makes more sense for a given PvP player to choose bounties or piracy instead.
@@4tonmike 4x ROI just means you do it in the off-peak time for a server and keep all the profits. Unless these goods are limited to being available prime-time, "hiring escorts" is just a meme.
@@stopmotion4535 Heh. "Hiring escorts"😉 Yep. Unfortunately most of the PvP incidents I've encountered were during off time hours. 2-6 AM. My guess is less players also mean less risk for griefers retaliation too.
I really love your idea with putting different sized hangars at different sized locations. This could help foster their idea about smaller ships being more viable for certain locations (and therefore commodities), while mediums are better for other locations and so on. With the hangars, players could have a safe place to load/offload or even make use of QOL amenities like auto-loading. So sure. You *could* bring your C2, land on the pad, and use the exposed freight elevator. But you're exposing yourself to risks you otherwise wouldn't have to worry about. You also don't get access to auto-loading. This keeps the choice in players hands, but provides tangible benefits to using a smaller ship for those locations and commodities.
Elite dangerous does this with stations and outposts. It's why I like the Python, medium ship can land most places, while the anaconda needs a large landing pad.
"If it feels like you can't ever fill the ship you are using with the commodity you are trying to trade... That might just be because that commodity isn't meant to trade in that much volume." Is an awesome line. Makes 100% Sense to me. When it comes to getting the information, I get every ones gripe with not having it in game. But I feel that I am on the fence with this one. I really do like the aspect of players finding out the information themselves. What I mean by that is that I like the rush of kind of finding the hidden gem of trading, and almost keeping it to yourself to make that profit. BUT at the same time, I would really like to see that in game "Stock Market" come into play. Where someone could be looking for the low value commodity and storing it until the price is right. In more simpler terms, I like the aspect of finding that hidden value in the cargo. But, I would also like more RNG with the prices that maybe move more consistently. Could also do different things like having steel or certain foods being more valuable in a certain time of the year or in game events that demand certain items overall.
The main goal is that we don't want a C2 and Cutty competing for the same commodities. OMG it's as if they're repeating back to me what I wrote out in all those feedback threads and have been saying for years. I'm sure this is what most people were saying but it's rare that CIG really understands it. Between the future mining ideas and this my mind is pretty blown. My biggest piece of advice when it comes to trading in SC has always been "Send the big and small ships on completely different routs and make sure it's not efficient for the larger ships to fill up on as much of the high value commodities as possible before moving onto the bulk items intended for their size of ship." You probably need the players to sell and/or purchase way off their normal bulk commodity trade route (so the C2 can do the Cutty Black trade if they want but it doesn't really make sense interrupting their normal bulk trade route).
Off couse, because that is completely logical. Is common sense and fits with realism. I dunno if CIG understands or not, but they keep it for themselves most of the time so we only can guess.
6:52 Yeah. So they should open price data to the community in the meantime, so we can make our own tools that we can use for the next 4-5 years. But CIG doesn’t want to do that, because they think they’re going to get it done soon.
Absolutely not.... UEX does a great job using player driven data. CIG doing it would just be handing it to you on a plate and takes away from basic exploration
20:56 💯 They need to view the community as collaborators instead of opponents. It’s almost like they don’t understand how human nature works and how to work well with it.
thanks for getting this out there mike. also, couldnt agree more with the tier -1 mobi info dump. its something an intern or junior could do with little guidance, and the small time investment for such a thing would be worth the better data that will come from it, for the cig economy folks and general testers alike
They need at the very least an in-game codex of commodities, that tells us 1.what they are, 2. where can I generally find them, 3. Who should I be selling them to. I don't even need specifics, just give us generalizations - like you can find more ICE the farther away from the sun you go.. then tell us what that could be used for to hint at where the demand might be. I think that would be a fantastic first step. (honestly, I think the game is in DIRE need of an in-game codex, but that's another discussion)
Ships like Hull-E cant bring their cargo planet side. CIG did tell us a long time ago that you would see bulk cargo being moved between stations and then smaller ships moving cargo between the planets and the stations. This still hasnt been implemented. Realistically though, there should be missions/contracts to move cargo between stations and planets. But if you want to cut out the middle man and move a commodity like Food straight from a farm straight to a planet city it should pay higher because you are not dealing with the middle man So Hull E should be selling more for cheaper, but make up the profit on volume
Star Map should include a lot of information per PoI. Commodities for sale/purchase, what shops if any are there, what kind of landinghangars are available etc
We need crates for ship components, particularly launches and guns. Actual system units are regular enough to move around and snap to the grid like SCU boxes. Ship weapons would need to be placed into a container and then that container snaps to the cargo grid so it doesn't bounce all over the place.
They have them in 4.0. I don't think we can get them, but I was doing a CZ Hangar, and it had cargo crates with ship weapons nestled in some foam inside of them. They have 16 scu boxes modeled with open ends and nothing in them, but we can't get them.
At least in live, the Journal tab in the Mobiglass has a commodity price update (or some similarly wording entry). I have not played 4.0 PTU to see if it exists there. But that might be your source of information, and even if it's not working currently, at least it's something they could probably use to add information without involving the UI team.
Could make some goofy commodity that *insert bs lore reason like the scm explanation” so the more you carry the lower its instability timer before explosion and make it meta. Set the timer so certain sized ships cant fill up and sell. The outpost hangar solution is the real solution, but cig doesnt want the prey too safe
Viable delivery from Stanton to Pyro is another major way to add value to Pyro. It would it be an ideal way to incentivize new players and return trips to Pyro and it makes logical sense that buyers in Pyro are sometimes willing to pay a premium for goods more easily manufactured in "civilized" space. To give an example, syndicate big shots would realistically covet all sorts high end luxury goods. Some of these game loops could easily be smuggling runs well suited to stealth spec'd players.
Commodity info doesn't need to be a UI thing they could put up a trade board at ttd's and station admins to start and add to the UI later just list all the in system locations and what they are buying and selling at price per scu
In theory that's how it should go. In planets the Trade Centers got the boards, but there was a hint for remote boards with the Ursa Lynx. Mess halls can have monitors where to toggle such info.
Re: release the spreadsheet They can release it, but I wouldn't use it. Discovering trade routes is essentially an exploration game loop. Reading the Prima Strategy Guide to Trading in Pyro would take out most of the fun, especially when we're going into Pyro for the first time and can treat it like an unexplored system. If they do release it, expect the highest profit routes to be off limits, because they'll be camped by pirates worse than they are in Stanton. The information about certain ships being more fit to trade at certain locations was put out years ago, even if it was just, "this is what we intend to do." I watched react videos a long time ago going over the dynamic of, "Hull series ships do large runs between orbital stations, and small cargo ships distribute goods to outposts. Steel doesn't trade in the same volume as diamonds."
Their last gameplay changes only punish pve players to the max, you cant flee with shields on to have a chance, you now get restrictions on what to trade and where and it all is in favor to pvp players that now have a way easier time to find and kill players
And then you have streamers like this that say they have 2 people just searching for things in game for them the whole time just for them.... Then they preach to you about how solo players need to get held back. Solo PVE players are always getting fucked and people like this that have bodies on hand at the drop of a pin can't even separate themselves enough to see "normal" players. Most things they've done over the past year cater more towards group gank fests and not solo or PVE content
I wonder when this server meshing will take off. People are like wow 500 people. But it is actually 500 on 10 servers, where in the past it was 100 on 1. Which means a 50 percent reduction in performance if 4.0 can do only 500. So it is worse then what it was in the past. It just allows them to shove more servers in to help, but that won't make it any cheaper to run. I hope some day they actually going to look into making it more performant.
I don't remember them saying it could only do 500 players to a shard, but we also only have 2/5 of the verse they've got planned. This is just a first iteration, so I'd expect a few bumps in shard player count as well go, with the bigger bumps coming with the other systems. The average player count per sever isn't as important though. I get a better game when there aren't 100 people on my server lol. But yeah, I'd look more at how it feels than just the raw averaged numbers. Those will shift as they go anyway.
i am finally seeing a real game form around the 4.0 ptu, even sc content creators are talking more about how to play and seem to know what the puzzle pieces are, its just now fitting them into a coherent vision for everyone.
Honestly I think the best route to give players a progression path with cargo is to simply factor in the mass of cargo. For example you may only be able to half fill your cutlass cargo due to the mass of the commodity you’re hauling which would prompt you to work for a bigger, more powerful, ship which can haul more mass.
What I would love to see is a contract-style ui element which would not only show where a particular commodity can be bought or sold, but also the current values. A great second phase to this would be a dynamic pricing system which would adjust depending on the flow of those commodities in and out of each location. In turn, I feel that this would automatically adjust risk/reward/quantities etc due to the transactions made by the player base.
I would love to get back into trading, most urgently IMO, we need to be able to look up which locations are purchasing what. Flying to, landing and checking manually is absolutely ridiculous. I want a trade tab on my mobi where I can look at any commodity, ore, component, etc. and view the prices at all locations for purchasing and selling. Seems like a very basic feature that is missing. I think it's fine to artificially cap the amount of a specific commodity or ore that I can find in an outpost, their storage would be limited, like say 36 SCU. This would make something like a Cutty Black more appealing for running that cargo. But as a C2 hauler I should be able to visit 20 outposts to fill my ship with that same commodity if I choose.
It's pretty simple really: - If you own a 16 wheeler with a 53' trailer (about 140 SCU), you can't expect to roll up to the 711 and fill it up with potato chip bags. The store doesn't have enough stock. - If you own a 16 wheeler with a 53' trailer (about 140 SCU), you can't excpect to roll up to the 711 and sell an entire load of potato chips. The store doesn't want that much stock. That's how Outposts, Stations and TDDs should scale. It's not rocket science and both CIG should be able to figure that out, and players should be able to understand it. Cheers! Canuck2099 :)
I'm a trucker. They should get some truckers to talk about the dynamics of the actual freight market and how you could form it or encourage it in game. Reality is, the C2 should accel at either large and heavy volume freight OR the ability to haul several smaller orders at a time, the pilots ability to organize and plan routes is how they would make more money with that type of ship. The Caterpillar is even better because of the compartmentalization. however the catwalk is annoying as hell. Kind of like how I use the C2 to run 5-6 individual haul missions that all drop at the same locations. Takes a bit longer to load, organize and plan, but ultimately it does make more money.
Having different ships for different commodities is entirely logical - that's how the real world works. You have tankers, break-bulk carriers, RO/ROs, container vessels, with multiple configurations for each type. We should absolutely have at the MINIMUM - Container ships, break-bulk ships, and fueling/gas vessels (for neon or other gases).
Well I will say this. I'm very happy that they are making an effort at keeping smaller cargo haulers relevant. That was something I have been worried about for some time. I didn't want cargo hauling to devolve to everyone running around in C2s and Ironclads and Hull Cs. I think its important for ship variety and just general gameplay for certain things to be limited to smaller ships. I still think they should go back to wormhole sizing restricting certain ship sizes as a further mechanic to incentivize smaller ships of all kinds, not just cargo haulers, but anyway. I'm glad to see CIG is making a concerted effort to keep the smaller ships relevant.
The comment on the UI team still not having the starmap done is a prime example of what is possibly CIG's biggest problem. They've tried to go for way too much in this game. They don't have enough personnel to create it. Even the personnel they have are underperforming in some areas as mentioned above. On top of that, once the game is finished, it will take a larger than expected number of personnel to maintain a game with so many moving parts. This will require an extraordinary amount of monthly cash flow, which they will never get unless they can pull this thing out of the gutter.
People thought manually loading cargo was going to fun but it turns it's not? No... Nobody with there head remotely screwed on thought manually loading more than 10 boxes would be enjoyable.
Add a trade module thing to the ship, so you can see prices in an area so once you traveled you have the prices. So they get saved in your mobiglass. Or hell an app you can purchase on your mobiglass for all i care. No reason it should be api / third party sites. And just started the video so might get covered in it 😂
In X3, you had to buy a trading computer upgrade for your ship to have access to trading prices at all places. It gives a sense of accomplishment when you earn enough to upgrade your ship and become a more efficient trader.
The thing I really hope we see is player driven trading to the point that, if certain goods dont get somewhere those locations cant function, like you can fuel your ships or get ammo or food unless x shipments arrive. cross system trading should be do able from gateway station to gateway stations, but also beyond. I for one wish H2o was a more important commodity to mine and be needed to deliver for stations to perform at best capacity. Remember the Cant'!
to add, im totally content hauling waste and scrap for small margins as long as there is positive earnings per session. The aUEC/Hour madness is a bit over blown and hurts trade over all. I guess smaller value will come into play for construction and crafting will make those items more sought after.
@@flightsimulatoradventures7246 I like that idea too. X4 Foundations does that. Problem is that CIG has already mentioned that players are participating in a much larger background NPC economy, which effectively means there are artificial guardrails on the tops and bottoms of prices. What a shame. Traders are not only risk capped by pirate activity and bugs, but also profit capped. I get that they want to balance things out, but if a trader can't compete with ERT bounties when hiring escort pilots to deter piracy (or provide content for PvP pirates) then traders go without and eventually get screwed over or don't trade at all.
RR stations could also be the Rough and Ready. There are some good loops in Pyro where you can go to several stations and trade at each station. Pyro to Staton is a bit more profitable but not worth the extra distance and time.
For some reason I'm only getting trainee hauling missions to the same two locations 300km away. I've done 30 of these and have junior rep. Still no new missions
In the same way that maps are provided in game for major locations, there should be some rudimentary system wide supply and demand information available in game - requested through mobiglass. Perhaps they could create a location at each major landing zone that would serve as an information Center for Development of Trade. Nah, they would just make it back asswards anyway.
Not a cargo trader, but when the Expanse comes out, can I buy RAW ores and refine them on the way to sell? Would be cool if you could buy raw ores when refining ships make it to the PTU.
a lot if this is due to the fact that it's rather one dimensional. Players find the most efficient route for the most profitable goods and then stick to that and then they start getting in conflict with eachother. If then someone at CiG is going to say "we don't want these types of ships to cross paths with these kinds of ships"... well that's all god and well but you can't disperse trade if the only motivations are price + shortest routes. The "starsim" has to come online and create dynamic supply/demand chains, and on the ship level, and sometimes you might even employ a situation where volatile materials have to be extra protected, or perhaps time sensitive materials can be thrown into the high demand mix at well at times so you create variation and dilemmas.
You could have a magic SCU box that holds more weapons than it theoretically should. Special 24 SCU transport box built by grey cat it stacks weapons perfectly so saves a colossal amount of space.
Took a blizzard cooler, an avalanche cooler, and a coverall shield generator from pyro contested zones to orson. They only sold for 1,800, 1200, and 910 auec respectively.
Hull C Trading is fun when it works, keywords right there, when it works. However I've lost more money trying to pickup the commodities that I just paid for but never get loaded because of game bug reasons. Honestly there are a few things I would love to have changed for that in regards to the Hull C if not trading in general, I should be able to purchase and store the commodity in my warehouse for one with my Hull C, both loading and unloading. I should also instead of docking going in to sell cargo, get undocked and going to cargo, it should just be allowed to call up the cargo dock right off the bat have your stuff unloaded into the "local warehouse" and then you dock/go in to the station to sell off the inventory you just delivered. Honestly right now I just want my Hull C to work cause I like the idea of carrying so much cargo to sell, its why I got the Hull D, but even I see that the issues with that is that demand is easily met in game and so a Hull C's cargo capacity quickly overshadows a station's demand for supplies. I don't want to sit there for hours/days trying to sell a handful of the items at a time and not going around doing trading elsewhere with my Hull C+ I want to load it up with all that delicious cargo and unload that cargo. I honestly can't see how the Hull D, which has roughly around 5x the cargo capacity of the Hull C, much less the Hull E will work in a game where demands are nowhere sufficient enough to justify using said ships.
They need to add a trade computer screen with info about commodities and prices to each trade ship. Just a pop up ui would be fine. Same for navigation.
The way freelancer did it was the best. You could buy rumours for different planets sales and needs from the bars. I feel like that is the way to go for the non player economy as it adds another sink and could be taken away gradually as the player run economy takes over.
Dude I was just asking in spectrum if there is something coming out for us to know where can we sell our bought commodities without relying in a site outside the game, Ive been traumatized by those times where 30ks where every 20 minutes so having cargo on my ship for long periods of time gets me nervous, so going station from station see who take it its just not very fun.
So I REALLY like the idea here. The problem is the players. I can't trade with a C1 in small high value cargo because inevitably there's going to be a guy on another server spamming buy to fill his C2
21:55 hey mike, you ask if CIG might post useful data now in raw form, then make it look pretty later?... no CIG will only make things look pretty first, then useful later-- they won't post any data until they can make it transparent blue and a blurry hologram in a font that is nearly unreadable but looks futuristic alieeennn...
Eve online employs proper economists to help set pricing and manage the market. While it's mostly player driven, it also gets manipulated by them to keep the right things at the right price. If CIG want to get the economy right, they'll need to have an Economist too and make sure they KNOW the game and what it's about AND that they know our players (and their quirks).
I would envision all locations putting in orders (missions) for commodities that are needed in ea location. I would also think like Bourbon_Gaming have a trade board or something to show where commodities can be purchased minus the UEE value. If were trying to be "Real World" there should be open orders with maybe limited missions to that location for xx SCU needed.
The last time I tried cargo hauling in my freelancer I got killed after landing at an outpost, just before I tried unloading a measly amount of hydrogen from a hauling mission. For being a “lawful” star system, it really isn’t.
Trading and commodities should be driven by demand. This market should be visible as demand is required, you would ask for it. Thats how you'll drive resources to where they're most needed.
Isn't this already fostering kind of a "shadow" data running model? Folks who are interested in that loop can visit various locations, make note of what they buy/sell, and then sell that information to traders. Get in a fast ship, zip around taking notes, and sell that info.
I just wish that the ASOP bug that doesn't allow you to spawn your ship/blank screen, would get fixed. Experienced in both 3.24 AND 4.0 Tried everything from a an uninstall to a full character reset. No fix.
Maybe make the ship specific cargo with different storage modules fit different ships. As example gas or liquid tanks need to be preinstalled and dont fit in every ship cause the support beam in the ship structure wouldnt support the weight or the engines are to close and the vibration would be risky. Same for ore that need support beams that are build for the ship to halt the weight. Maybe for weapon there could be a law thing that restrict a maximum numbers of carried weapons and if you carry more you could do that at your own risk. I like the idea for specialization, but with the option to switch a lil bit without buying a new ship. Just make a timeor money restriction that you can switch betwin types of cargo.
As far as spreadsheets going or them releasing any like standard information about where these things are I mean I think that's part of Lee going to be scanning and people selling information
Personally, I don't like the auto-load thing. To be specific, I dont like the "Magical" auto-load thing. I want to be able to see the station loading/unloading cargo or to be able to do this faster if you have the crew (or Station NPCs, ATLSs, Station Tractor Beams etc). Other that that, I agree. I don't want hard-limits on what each ship is meant to carry. Also, I'm fine with some outposts not having hangars and autoload features, but I would like to see some POIs to have those on each system (unless they introduce a completely uninhabited system).
I dislike the idea of ships for certain items specifically because the community would scream that it's just forcing people to get more ships and overly complicating it. I don't like the idea of shoehorning a ship into one specific hauling type for unnecessary reasons. The way they do it, or claim it'll work, makes some sense to me. They aren't saying you can't use a c2 to grab those smaller items. Just it makes more sense to use something smaller. You could easily fly around to all those locations and buy up all of it and slowly load the C2. But it makes sense the higher value items may be in smaller quantities assuming high value is because the material is rarer and wouldn't normally be available is large quantities without going around and rounding it up.
I have to say that I would be against CIG releasing "the spreadsheet " of trade and mining information for a couple of reasons. First and foremost, that would mean that everything is locked in place, no dynamic economy. Second, finding the current info and selling, trading, or inputting it into a third-party sight is itself a game play loop and we need as many as we can get.
Why not make it like we have today? Small cargo ships for interplanetary selling/buying. Medium for intersystem selling/buying and large for system selling/buying. A location on a planet can only do small amounts of buying/selling. Stations/landing zones can take more while they could make distribution stations in a central location that takes large amounts of cargo and then has it distributed across the system. Distribution (large), stations/landing zones (medium), outposts (small)
Nah man. A tanker for liquids and gases would be great, but everything else, as well as tanks for liquids and gases has to go on the cargo grid. We need to be able to choose a smaller box size in the hauling contracts, though. I had a contract for 99 SCU and I couldn't fit them in my Freelancer MAX because of the Box size.
Another thing they should address is the enemy AI. It feels like im either fighting some like 4 y/o with a controller sometimes, and other times it's like i'm doing a 1v1 with john wick
If you hate moving cargo,....your not a cargo hauler....best money is pick up safe drop in high risk/Contrsted.....everyone has it back wards...go to Pyro to see what they need then go to Stanton, then STAY SAFE and sell to highest buyer.....buy as you wish...do what you want....if you want more think outside the box and step your game up
It has to be that stations are running out of supplies like water, weapons and food if they don't get deliveries. The lower they get on supplies the better the price has to be. But it's essential that they can run out of stuff. No fuel delivered. Bad nobody can refuel. No FPS weapons or ammo delivered. No guns to buy etc. That would be good for trade and the economy. Places must actually produce something with raw materials. That's where this should go.
That would be a cool idea but they need to really allow auto loading. There’s no way I can imagine a space trucker carrying tons of cargo doesn’t have any help from the station employees to help unload. It’s painful to carry cargo all in one single containers what type of gameplay is that fun
Is this game gonna turn out to be trash? Im Searously consider it. Its so broken with so many bugs, im tired of it. I just want to use the vulture/Polaris after scrapping the scrape put my ship into the pol's hanger and my vulture disapeared into nothing.
It might be fun in about 10 years when they can finally get all these different systems implemented and maybe balanced. The question is can this company survive that long.
There's a big difference between shipping human hearts and shipping a load of cobalt. One is a purchase/sell situation and the other should be a mission task. Human hearts aren't a typically bought/sold commodity. Small cargo haulers should operate more like an Amazon truck and less on the scale of an 18 wheeler. For large haulers, reliable routes is key to making them worth running. Low profit/high reliability in profit vs a smaller hauler which has high profit but no reliable routes.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
It should be really easy in game to search for places wanting to buy commodities. No trader in real life would buy a truckload of a commodity and drive around hoping to find a buyer, they would arrange sale before leaving. This should be possible in the game. Enter a menu for trade, search for buyers of a specific commodity and then make an agreement for them to accept your cargo when you get there. Job done.
And companies doing the shipping (like what you do in game) don’t actually pay for the commodities, they are just shipping. This game has you do both
In X4 Foundations, you set up a trade order for ships. The items ate reserved, paid for when picked up, and profit when sold.
@@leoormesher2762 i believe thats more how the cargo missions work. this is free form cargo and your where your acting as a bit more of a travelling salesman.
You realistically need a player who is really into spreadsheets and bureaucracy in order to do all the logistics for you. I would, but I do bureaucracy for a living, and I just wanna be a space trucker.
This system linking traders to buyers, arrives - in game - in Q4 2026.
What about cargo centres; since their introduction not much has happened with them? Why can't we trade more with them?
Same thing with the Freelancer. Forgotten on the back burner.
Exactly,that's what CIG they inferred that distbution centre would be busy with haulage and deliveries.
The Cargo Centers I believe are not meant to be a store for commodities. It's more or less just a warehouse.
@@Strasak-- or a fancy FPS map
Why does Sakura Sun (component manufacturer) have security that shoots on sight? So many questions....
Sounds a bit to me as if every department of CIG is working on a different Game and none of them communicate with eachother . . . .
yeah they do that, they said they add things and they will be later connecting it all, but im not sure if this is what you are talking about rn, im just starting the video
It's very apparent that Chris Roberts main focus from 2012 till today was SQ42, hence why we see that in many cases CIG has put the cart before the horse with exception of how they develop the systems for SQ42. I'm convinced that even now they haven't bothered to create any Design Briefs for Gameplay loops, hence why they keep pumping out content that doesn't really fit the scope of the 'intended gameplay'.
I'm cyber lazy...moving alot of cargo is time consuming.
I just loooove that the devs have an idea of how the game should be played but it takes bug submissions and forum posts to get them to communicate those ideas
they have a job to do, they can't sit around writing on spectrum all day about stuff that isn't finished/open to change, that would be a waste. Ideas are ideas for a reason
@ironwarr and yet they are on Spectrum all the time. I don’t disagree that it’s a waste of their time. I’d prefer CIG address communication issues proactively and make that someone else’s full-time job
Only a basic idea and only took 11 years..
@ironwarr no one is asking them to. Why isn't Jared covering this stuff? How do they expect us to test features if they don't tell us what the feature is supposed to be? This game is WAY too complex and incomplete for them to treat this like it's a fun surprise. It's not.
This was talked about in ISC long ago. I even remember Tony Zurovec explaining it.
Scarcity based commodity pricing is what we need. If no one has sold steel to Hurston all day, I want to see offers increase. I want to see NPC haulers. So you could spend time wrecking NPC steel haulers, and then go and sell steel for a premium to that destination because it would be scarce.
Wouldn't that cargo be flagged as stolen though? Therefore you'd only be able to sell at grimhex or pyro?
Only if it's from mission spawned cargo missions I think. Resources bought straight by players I *think* won't be labeled stolen
@seeker_rodan3113 well maybe they have acquired the steel legally but they purposefully wreck NPC steel haulers to drive up steel prices. The pirated steel they can sell in pyro. A cool way to coordinate in a dynamic economy
@@seeker_rodan3113 I think you missed the point. The point is, if you strangle supply by taking down NPC suppliers, a location will up its prices so you can then sell them purchased or mined commodities at a premium due to scarcity.
there is no real hard restriction they are not going to prevent large ships from trading in whatever cargo you want... its just going to be super inconvenient to have to go to multiple sites with a huge ship just to get a little bit of cargo... its like going to a 7-11 with a transport truck to try to fill it with all their chips.. sure you could do it but if you wanna fill that truck its gonna take you alot of stops at 7-11's to do it.
it's an awesome design and very realistic
I totally agree.
As someone who spent years working in logistics, I wouldn't send a massive artic (Caterpillar?) to pick up a couple of boxes or a pallet from some family run shop in a little country village somewhere. I'd send a local courier in a sprinter van (Cutter), to bring it back to my nearest transport depot where I'd consolidate it into a bulk container with other groupage cargo. I'd then trunk it to an airport or seaport for loading into a cargo plane (C2) or container ship (Hull-C/D/E? Ironclad?) for international shipping, or to a distribution centre for domestic delivery by more 7.5tonners (Cutty? MSR?) or more sprinters.
For something really urgent or high value I'd maybe do it door to door, even internationally across Europe, in a single dedicated courier (Herald? MSR? Zeus?) at a significant premium.
It seems like these are the kinds of real world patterns of efficiency and consolidation they're looking to replicate. It honestly sounds pretty cool and like it has lots of gameplay potential, rather than being a hard limit.
For example, you and your 4 friends in Pyro jump in a bunch of Cutters and to collect low volume high value cargo from all over the system, a few SCU from outposts all over. You bring those disparate small collections back to one RR station, where together you load it all (safely via freight elevators in private hangars), into something more proportionate to the consolidated volume ... An ironclad maybe, or a Hull series if you've been particularly busy bees... You all crew that larger ship for the flight back to Stanton or Terra, leaving your Cutters at the station. You can then either make a big bulk sale at an orbital or legrange point in Stanton from your bulk carrier, or once again distribute it out onto smaller ships for you each to crew in search of the low volume high value sale.
Sounds pretty sweet to me if they can balance the cost and sale prices realistically to the distance, supply, demand, effort etc.
Addendum; I wouldn't *deliberately* send the artic to the little village. At least not without buying the driver an apology beer the next day. 😅
Its a ludricrous design and makes things like base crafting and even shipbuilding look like they will be prohibitively arduous when they actually come out.
@@shellshokked It's literally how it works in reality. Deal with it
I think what they need is a wide variety of cargo boxes/pallets that allow oddly shaped things or small uniformly shaped things, to be combined into a form factor that i compatible with cargo grids. The simplest example being pallets that allow for combining many small cargo boxes into one larger sized cargo box. The most exotic being a pallet that has built in hard points for mounting ship weapons onto a stackable pallet, compatible wit the cargo grid. Could also be done with ship components, where the box/pallet could have mounting points, where ship components could attach to, securing them and making their container stackable and stable.
They got those hover trolleys, that in my opinion can be used as pallet and moved without extra machinery.
The reply to the reply was pretty funny.
Commentor: it doesn’t make sense to take this sort of risk unless the return on investment is 400%+
Cig dev: best we can offer is 12%
We need that 4x ROI to hire escorts and patrols. I get that they want to balance the game so that trading isn't OP, but if our hiring rates aren't competitive with bounty contracts, then it makes more sense for a given PvP player to choose bounties or piracy instead.
@@4tonmike 4x ROI just means you do it in the off-peak time for a server and keep all the profits. Unless these goods are limited to being available prime-time, "hiring escorts" is just a meme.
@@stopmotion4535
Heh. "Hiring escorts"😉
Yep. Unfortunately most of the PvP incidents I've encountered were during off time hours. 2-6 AM. My guess is less players also mean less risk for griefers retaliation too.
I really love your idea with putting different sized hangars at different sized locations.
This could help foster their idea about smaller ships being more viable for certain locations (and therefore commodities), while mediums are better for other locations and so on.
With the hangars, players could have a safe place to load/offload or even make use of QOL amenities like auto-loading. So sure. You *could* bring your C2, land on the pad, and use the exposed freight elevator. But you're exposing yourself to risks you otherwise wouldn't have to worry about. You also don't get access to auto-loading.
This keeps the choice in players hands, but provides tangible benefits to using a smaller ship for those locations and commodities.
Elite dangerous does this with stations and outposts. It's why I like the Python, medium ship can land most places, while the anaconda needs a large landing pad.
"If it feels like you can't ever fill the ship you are using with the commodity you are trying to trade... That might just be because that commodity isn't meant to trade in that much volume." Is an awesome line. Makes 100% Sense to me.
When it comes to getting the information, I get every ones gripe with not having it in game. But I feel that I am on the fence with this one. I really do like the aspect of players finding out the information themselves.
What I mean by that is that I like the rush of kind of finding the hidden gem of trading, and almost keeping it to yourself to make that profit. BUT at the same time, I would really like to see that in game "Stock Market" come into play. Where someone could be looking for the low value commodity and storing it until the price is right.
In more simpler terms, I like the aspect of finding that hidden value in the cargo. But, I would also like more RNG with the prices that maybe move more consistently. Could also do different things like having steel or certain foods being more valuable in a certain time of the year or in game events that demand certain items overall.
As soon as you explained hangars it blew my mind. Such a simple thing that can REALLY help!
The main goal is that we don't want a C2 and Cutty competing for the same commodities. OMG it's as if they're repeating back to me what I wrote out in all those feedback threads and have been saying for years. I'm sure this is what most people were saying but it's rare that CIG really understands it. Between the future mining ideas and this my mind is pretty blown.
My biggest piece of advice when it comes to trading in SC has always been "Send the big and small ships on completely different routs and make sure it's not efficient for the larger ships to fill up on as much of the high value commodities as possible before moving onto the bulk items intended for their size of ship." You probably need the players to sell and/or purchase way off their normal bulk commodity trade route (so the C2 can do the Cutty Black trade if they want but it doesn't really make sense interrupting their normal bulk trade route).
Off couse, because that is completely logical. Is common sense and fits with realism. I dunno if CIG understands or not, but they keep it for themselves most of the time so we only can guess.
I love the manual freight loading and unloading. I've done a good 100 + SCU and enjoyed it in my Fatlancer Max
6:52 Yeah. So they should open price data to the community in the meantime, so we can make our own tools that we can use for the next 4-5 years. But CIG doesn’t want to do that, because they think they’re going to get it done soon.
Absolutely not.... UEX does a great job using player driven data. CIG doing it would just be handing it to you on a plate and takes away from basic exploration
soon tm
Awesome content and updates!
20:56 💯 They need to view the community as collaborators instead of opponents. It’s almost like they don’t understand how human nature works and how to work well with it.
thanks for getting this out there mike. also, couldnt agree more with the tier -1 mobi info dump. its something an intern or junior could do with little guidance, and the small time investment for such a thing would be worth the better data that will come from it, for the cig economy folks and general testers alike
They need at the very least an in-game codex of commodities, that tells us 1.what they are, 2. where can I generally find them, 3. Who should I be selling them to.
I don't even need specifics, just give us generalizations - like you can find more ICE the farther away from the sun you go.. then tell us what that could be used for to hint at where the demand might be. I think that would be a fantastic first step. (honestly, I think the game is in DIRE need of an in-game codex, but that's another discussion)
Ships like Hull-E cant bring their cargo planet side. CIG did tell us a long time ago that you would see bulk cargo being moved between stations and then smaller ships moving cargo between the planets and the stations.
This still hasnt been implemented. Realistically though, there should be missions/contracts to move cargo between stations and planets. But if you want to cut out the middle man and move a commodity like Food straight from a farm straight to a planet city it should pay higher because you are not dealing with the middle man
So Hull E should be selling more for cheaper, but make up the profit on volume
The Hull E will move cargo from system to system. Specially from Stanton to Terra.
Selling ships without first having a solid plan for gameplay is the Achilles heel of Star Citizen.
Star Map should include a lot of information per PoI. Commodities for sale/purchase, what shops if any are there, what kind of landinghangars are available etc
This would be extremely ideal.
We need crates for ship components, particularly launches and guns. Actual system units are regular enough to move around and snap to the grid like SCU boxes. Ship weapons would need to be placed into a container and then that container snaps to the cargo grid so it doesn't bounce all over the place.
They have them in 4.0. I don't think we can get them, but I was doing a CZ Hangar, and it had cargo crates with ship weapons nestled in some foam inside of them.
They have 16 scu boxes modeled with open ends and nothing in them, but we can't get them.
@drewbydoobydoo2918 That's great to hear!
@@steppahouse it is *if* they allow us to buy/use them
At least in live, the Journal tab in the Mobiglass has a commodity price update (or some similarly wording entry). I have not played 4.0 PTU to see if it exists there. But that might be your source of information, and even if it's not working currently, at least it's something they could probably use to add information without involving the UI team.
I did tons of trading using the commodity price updates in previous patches. It was great for finding trade routes.
Could make some goofy commodity that *insert bs lore reason like the scm explanation” so the more you carry the lower its instability timer before explosion and make it meta. Set the timer so certain sized ships cant fill up and sell.
The outpost hangar solution is the real solution, but cig doesnt want the prey too safe
An in-game subscription paid for with aUEC, where you can check values. An SC version of a real world trade index.
Viable delivery from Stanton to Pyro is another major way to add value to Pyro. It would it be an ideal way to incentivize new players and return trips to Pyro and it makes logical sense that buyers in Pyro are sometimes willing to pay a premium for goods more easily manufactured in "civilized" space. To give an example, syndicate big shots would realistically covet all sorts high end luxury goods. Some of these game loops could easily be smuggling runs well suited to stealth spec'd players.
Omg I kinda made a video lmao
Pretty cool, thanks for noticing, Mike!
Commodity info doesn't need to be a UI thing they could put up a trade board at ttd's and station admins to start and add to the UI later just list all the in system locations and what they are buying and selling at price per scu
In theory that's how it should go. In planets the Trade Centers got the boards, but there was a hint for remote boards with the Ursa Lynx. Mess halls can have monitors where to toggle such info.
Re: release the spreadsheet
They can release it, but I wouldn't use it. Discovering trade routes is essentially an exploration game loop. Reading the Prima Strategy Guide to Trading in Pyro would take out most of the fun, especially when we're going into Pyro for the first time and can treat it like an unexplored system. If they do release it, expect the highest profit routes to be off limits, because they'll be camped by pirates worse than they are in Stanton.
The information about certain ships being more fit to trade at certain locations was put out years ago, even if it was just, "this is what we intend to do." I watched react videos a long time ago going over the dynamic of, "Hull series ships do large runs between orbital stations, and small cargo ships distribute goods to outposts. Steel doesn't trade in the same volume as diamonds."
Their last gameplay changes only punish pve players to the max, you cant flee with shields on to have a chance, you now get restrictions on what to trade and where and it all is in favor to pvp players that now have a way easier time to find and kill players
And then you have streamers like this that say they have 2 people just searching for things in game for them the whole time just for them.... Then they preach to you about how solo players need to get held back. Solo PVE players are always getting fucked and people like this that have bodies on hand at the drop of a pin can't even separate themselves enough to see "normal" players.
Most things they've done over the past year cater more towards group gank fests and not solo or PVE content
I wonder when this server meshing will take off. People are like wow 500 people. But it is actually 500 on 10 servers, where in the past it was 100 on 1. Which means a 50 percent reduction in performance if 4.0 can do only 500. So it is worse then what it was in the past. It just allows them to shove more servers in to help, but that won't make it any cheaper to run. I hope some day they actually going to look into making it more performant.
I don't remember them saying it could only do 500 players to a shard, but we also only have 2/5 of the verse they've got planned. This is just a first iteration, so I'd expect a few bumps in shard player count as well go, with the bigger bumps coming with the other systems. The average player count per sever isn't as important though. I get a better game when there aren't 100 people on my server lol.
But yeah, I'd look more at how it feels than just the raw averaged numbers. Those will shift as they go anyway.
i am finally seeing a real game form around the 4.0 ptu, even sc content creators are talking more about how to play and seem to know what the puzzle pieces are, its just now fitting them into a coherent vision for everyone.
Honestly I think the best route to give players a progression path with cargo is to simply factor in the mass of cargo. For example you may only be able to half fill your cutlass cargo due to the mass of the commodity you’re hauling which would prompt you to work for a bigger, more powerful, ship which can haul more mass.
9:59 Sums up the era were in right now lol
Kind of makes sense, like A class, B class, you carry mats based on the size of ship based on resource usage/fuel, etc.
What I would love to see is a contract-style ui element which would not only show where a particular commodity can be bought or sold, but also the current values. A great second phase to this would be a dynamic pricing system which would adjust depending on the flow of those commodities in and out of each location. In turn, I feel that this would automatically adjust risk/reward/quantities etc due to the transactions made by the player base.
I would love to get back into trading, most urgently IMO, we need to be able to look up which locations are purchasing what. Flying to, landing and checking manually is absolutely ridiculous. I want a trade tab on my mobi where I can look at any commodity, ore, component, etc. and view the prices at all locations for purchasing and selling. Seems like a very basic feature that is missing.
I think it's fine to artificially cap the amount of a specific commodity or ore that I can find in an outpost, their storage would be limited, like say 36 SCU. This would make something like a Cutty Black more appealing for running that cargo. But as a C2 hauler I should be able to visit 20 outposts to fill my ship with that same commodity if I choose.
It's pretty simple really:
- If you own a 16 wheeler with a 53' trailer (about 140 SCU), you can't expect to roll up to the 711 and fill it up with potato chip bags. The store doesn't have enough stock.
- If you own a 16 wheeler with a 53' trailer (about 140 SCU), you can't excpect to roll up to the 711 and sell an entire load of potato chips. The store doesn't want that much stock.
That's how Outposts, Stations and TDDs should scale. It's not rocket science and both CIG should be able to figure that out, and players should be able to understand it.
Cheers! Canuck2099 :)
I'm a trucker. They should get some truckers to talk about the dynamics of the actual freight market and how you could form it or encourage it in game.
Reality is, the C2 should accel at either large and heavy volume freight OR the ability to haul several smaller orders at a time, the pilots ability to organize and plan routes is how they would make more money with that type of ship.
The Caterpillar is even better because of the compartmentalization. however the catwalk is annoying as hell.
Kind of like how I use the C2 to run 5-6 individual haul missions that all drop at the same locations. Takes a bit longer to load, organize and plan, but ultimately it does make more money.
Having different ships for different commodities is entirely logical - that's how the real world works. You have tankers, break-bulk carriers, RO/ROs, container vessels, with multiple configurations for each type.
We should absolutely have at the MINIMUM - Container ships, break-bulk ships, and fueling/gas vessels (for neon or other gases).
Well I will say this. I'm very happy that they are making an effort at keeping smaller cargo haulers relevant. That was something I have been worried about for some time. I didn't want cargo hauling to devolve to everyone running around in C2s and Ironclads and Hull Cs. I think its important for ship variety and just general gameplay for certain things to be limited to smaller ships. I still think they should go back to wormhole sizing restricting certain ship sizes as a further mechanic to incentivize smaller ships of all kinds, not just cargo haulers, but anyway. I'm glad to see CIG is making a concerted effort to keep the smaller ships relevant.
The comment on the UI team still not having the starmap done is a prime example of what is possibly CIG's biggest problem. They've tried to go for way too much in this game. They don't have enough personnel to create it. Even the personnel they have are underperforming in some areas as mentioned above. On top of that, once the game is finished, it will take a larger than expected number of personnel to maintain a game with so many moving parts. This will require an extraordinary amount of monthly cash flow, which they will never get unless they can pull this thing out of the gutter.
The personel is either busy making another game that now is voiced to be released in 2026, or trying to make servers operable.
For some reason this guy gives me clarity
People thought manually loading cargo was going to fun but it turns it's not? No... Nobody with there head remotely screwed on thought manually loading more than 10 boxes would be enjoyable.
To me its only fun if the profit makes sense and it there is a real cat/mouse with pirates
My problem with the tdd is the hull c can't go there. Like it is the biggest cargo ship and it can't land at any city while loaded.
Add a trade module thing to the ship, so you can see prices in an area so once you traveled you have the prices.
So they get saved in your mobiglass. Or hell an app you can purchase on your mobiglass for all i care. No reason it should be api / third party sites. And just started the video so might get covered in it 😂
In X3, you had to buy a trading computer upgrade for your ship to have access to trading prices at all places. It gives a sense of accomplishment when you earn enough to upgrade your ship and become a more efficient trader.
The thing I really hope we see is player driven trading to the point that, if certain goods dont get somewhere those locations cant function, like you can fuel your ships or get ammo or food unless x shipments arrive. cross system trading should be do able from gateway station to gateway stations, but also beyond. I for one wish H2o was a more important commodity to mine and be needed to deliver for stations to perform at best capacity. Remember the Cant'!
to add, im totally content hauling waste and scrap for small margins as long as there is positive earnings per session. The aUEC/Hour madness is a bit over blown and hurts trade over all. I guess smaller value will come into play for construction and crafting will make those items more sought after.
@@flightsimulatoradventures7246
I like that idea too. X4 Foundations does that.
Problem is that CIG has already mentioned that players are participating in a much larger background NPC economy, which effectively means there are artificial guardrails on the tops and bottoms of prices. What a shame.
Traders are not only risk capped by pirate activity and bugs, but also profit capped.
I get that they want to balance things out, but if a trader can't compete with ERT bounties when hiring escort pilots to deter piracy (or provide content for PvP pirates) then traders go without and eventually get screwed over or don't trade at all.
RR stations could also be the Rough and Ready. There are some good loops in Pyro where you can go to several stations and trade at each station. Pyro to Staton is a bit more profitable but not worth the extra distance and time.
For some reason I'm only getting trainee hauling missions to the same two locations 300km away. I've done 30 of these and have junior rep. Still no new missions
In the same way that maps are provided in game for major locations, there should be some rudimentary system wide supply and demand information available in game - requested through mobiglass. Perhaps they could create a location at each major landing zone that would serve as an information Center for Development of Trade. Nah, they would just make it back asswards anyway.
Spectrum official post is by definition 1st party, no?
Not a cargo trader, but when the Expanse comes out, can I buy RAW ores and refine them on the way to sell? Would be cool if you could buy raw ores when refining ships make it to the PTU.
It makes perfect sense that certain ships would ship different things. A semi truck wouldn't deliver the same thing a fed ex truck would ect
a lot if this is due to the fact that it's rather one dimensional. Players find the most efficient route for the most profitable goods and then stick to that and then they start getting in conflict with eachother. If then someone at CiG is going to say "we don't want these types of ships to cross paths with these kinds of ships"... well that's all god and well but you can't disperse trade if the only motivations are price + shortest routes. The "starsim" has to come online and create dynamic supply/demand chains, and on the ship level, and sometimes you might even employ a situation where volatile materials have to be extra protected, or perhaps time sensitive materials can be thrown into the high demand mix at well at times so you create variation and dilemmas.
You could have a magic SCU box that holds more weapons than it theoretically should. Special 24 SCU transport box built by grey cat it stacks weapons perfectly so saves a colossal amount of space.
Took a blizzard cooler, an avalanche cooler, and a coverall shield generator from pyro contested zones to orson. They only sold for 1,800, 1200, and 910 auec respectively.
They really need to make a market API that allows the community to pull data for tooling
Hull C Trading is fun when it works, keywords right there, when it works. However I've lost more money trying to pickup the commodities that I just paid for but never get loaded because of game bug reasons. Honestly there are a few things I would love to have changed for that in regards to the Hull C if not trading in general, I should be able to purchase and store the commodity in my warehouse for one with my Hull C, both loading and unloading. I should also instead of docking going in to sell cargo, get undocked and going to cargo, it should just be allowed to call up the cargo dock right off the bat have your stuff unloaded into the "local warehouse" and then you dock/go in to the station to sell off the inventory you just delivered. Honestly right now I just want my Hull C to work cause I like the idea of carrying so much cargo to sell, its why I got the Hull D, but even I see that the issues with that is that demand is easily met in game and so a Hull C's cargo capacity quickly overshadows a station's demand for supplies. I don't want to sit there for hours/days trying to sell a handful of the items at a time and not going around doing trading elsewhere with my Hull C+ I want to load it up with all that delicious cargo and unload that cargo. I honestly can't see how the Hull D, which has roughly around 5x the cargo capacity of the Hull C, much less the Hull E will work in a game where demands are nowhere sufficient enough to justify using said ships.
They need to add a trade computer screen with info about commodities and prices to each trade ship. Just a pop up ui would be fine. Same for navigation.
The way freelancer did it was the best. You could buy rumours for different planets sales and needs from the bars. I feel like that is the way to go for the non player economy as it adds another sink and could be taken away gradually as the player run economy takes over.
Dude I was just asking in spectrum if there is something coming out for us to know where can we sell our bought commodities without relying in a site outside the game, Ive been traumatized by those times where 30ks where every 20 minutes so having cargo on my ship for long periods of time gets me nervous, so going station from station see who take it its just not very fun.
Scouts in starter ships could check prices manually, but you'd need higher margins to hire them.
So I REALLY like the idea here. The problem is the players. I can't trade with a C1 in small high value cargo because inevitably there's going to be a guy on another server spamming buy to fill his C2
Can someone PLEASE explain step-by-step how to auto-load and auto-unload? I have yet to get this feature to work. I always get an error.
I'm pretty sure it's glitched at the moment
I feel like the merchantman and multiplayer aspect around it will end up fleshing out the cargo system in ways we might not be seeing. Just a guess.
It's funny he mentions in a MSR to do "this" but if in something smaller like a Zeus, to do "that"...
The MSR has 114 SCU, the Zeus CL has 128 SCU.
21:55 hey mike, you ask if CIG might post useful data now in raw form, then make it look pretty later?... no CIG will only make things look pretty first, then useful later-- they won't post any data until they can make it transparent blue and a blurry hologram in a font that is nearly unreadable but looks futuristic alieeennn...
I’ve never heard funnels called faucets. Is this a Mike term or a new word for funnel in the industry. I’ve been out of game Developement for a while.
Eve online employs proper economists to help set pricing and manage the market. While it's mostly player driven, it also gets manipulated by them to keep the right things at the right price.
If CIG want to get the economy right, they'll need to have an Economist too and make sure they KNOW the game and what it's about AND that they know our players (and their quirks).
mabey, they add a pyro npc drivin defense instead of an Armistice Zone. If your weapons are unholstered, you're getting shot kinda thing.
I would envision all locations putting in orders (missions) for commodities that are needed in ea location. I would also think like Bourbon_Gaming have a trade board or something to show where commodities can be purchased minus the UEE value. If were trying to be "Real World" there should be open orders with maybe limited missions to that location for xx SCU needed.
The last time I tried cargo hauling in my freelancer I got killed after landing at an outpost, just before I tried unloading a measly amount of hydrogen from a hauling mission. For being a “lawful” star system, it really isn’t.
Pryo sucks for industrial loops as one can't get from point a to b without getting ganked...
Trading and commodities should be driven by demand. This market should be visible as demand is required, you would ask for it. Thats how you'll drive resources to where they're most needed.
Isn't this already fostering kind of a "shadow" data running model? Folks who are interested in that loop can visit various locations, make note of what they buy/sell, and then sell that information to traders. Get in a fast ship, zip around taking notes, and sell that info.
I just wish that the ASOP bug that doesn't allow you to spawn your ship/blank screen, would get fixed. Experienced in both 3.24 AND 4.0
Tried everything from a an uninstall to a full character reset. No fix.
Maybe make the ship specific cargo with different storage modules fit different ships. As example gas or liquid tanks need to be preinstalled and dont fit in every ship cause the support beam in the ship structure wouldnt support the weight or the engines are to close and the vibration would be risky. Same for ore that need support beams that are build for the ship to halt the weight. Maybe for weapon there could be a law thing that restrict a maximum numbers of carried weapons and if you carry more you could do that at your own risk. I like the idea for specialization, but with the option to switch a lil bit without buying a new ship. Just make a timeor money restriction that you can switch betwin types of cargo.
They need to add what buys what in the menu that pops up when you click on a station or outpost
As far as spreadsheets going or them releasing any like standard information about where these things are I mean I think that's part of Lee going to be scanning and people selling information
Personally, I don't like the auto-load thing. To be specific, I dont like the "Magical" auto-load thing. I want to be able to see the station loading/unloading cargo or to be able to do this faster if you have the crew (or Station NPCs, ATLSs, Station Tractor Beams etc). Other that that, I agree. I don't want hard-limits on what each ship is meant to carry. Also, I'm fine with some outposts not having hangars and autoload features, but I would like to see some POIs to have those on each system (unless they introduce a completely uninhabited system).
I dislike the idea of ships for certain items specifically because the community would scream that it's just forcing people to get more ships and overly complicating it. I don't like the idea of shoehorning a ship into one specific hauling type for unnecessary reasons. The way they do it, or claim it'll work, makes some sense to me. They aren't saying you can't use a c2 to grab those smaller items. Just it makes more sense to use something smaller. You could easily fly around to all those locations and buy up all of it and slowly load the C2. But it makes sense the higher value items may be in smaller quantities assuming high value is because the material is rarer and wouldn't normally be available is large quantities without going around and rounding it up.
Wasn't cargo missions supposed to teach the good trade routes? Did anyone try to compile all the missions?
this info coul'd be provided behind trading guild rep and diferent guilds whould provide different intel (comodity or location...)
I have to say that I would be against CIG releasing "the spreadsheet " of trade and mining information for a couple of reasons. First and foremost, that would mean that everything is locked in place, no dynamic economy. Second, finding the current info and selling, trading, or inputting it into a third-party sight is itself a game play loop and we need as many as we can get.
I don't think 'Large" ship trade (Pyro-Stanton) is viable until you can make it through the wormhole most every time.
Why not make it like we have today?
Small cargo ships for interplanetary selling/buying. Medium for intersystem selling/buying and large for system selling/buying.
A location on a planet can only do small amounts of buying/selling. Stations/landing zones can take more while they could make distribution stations in a central location that takes large amounts of cargo and then has it distributed across the system.
Distribution (large), stations/landing zones (medium), outposts (small)
Nah man. A tanker for liquids and gases would be great, but everything else, as well as tanks for liquids and gases has to go on the cargo grid.
We need to be able to choose a smaller box size in the hauling contracts, though. I had a contract for 99 SCU and I couldn't fit them in my Freelancer MAX because of the Box size.
lol like stuff is going to work. almost got us
Another thing they should address is the enemy AI. It feels like im either fighting some like 4 y/o with a controller sometimes, and other times it's like i'm doing a 1v1 with john wick
If you hate moving cargo,....your not a cargo hauler....best money is pick up safe drop in high risk/Contrsted.....everyone has it back wards...go to Pyro to see what they need then go to Stanton, then STAY SAFE and sell to highest buyer.....buy as you wish...do what you want....if you want more think outside the box and step your game up
CIG is killing trade entirely. Guess im going to have to stick to hauling missions in Stanton to avoid all the bs.
All they care about is catering to the incredibly small percentage of hardcore pvp players. Making the same mistakes as other mmos before them.
It has to be that stations are running out of supplies like water, weapons and food if they don't get deliveries. The lower they get on supplies the better the price has to be. But it's essential that they can run out of stuff. No fuel delivered. Bad nobody can refuel. No FPS weapons or ammo delivered. No guns to buy etc. That would be good for trade and the economy. Places must actually produce something with raw materials. That's where this should go.
So starsim, got it. 😂
That would be a cool idea but they need to really allow auto loading. There’s no way I can imagine a space trucker carrying tons of cargo doesn’t have any help from the station employees to help unload. It’s painful to carry cargo all in one single containers what type of gameplay is that fun
You also have to deal with some places not purchasing larger size SCU containers.
Is this game gonna turn out to be trash? Im Searously consider it. Its so broken with so many bugs, im tired of it. I just want to use the vulture/Polaris after scrapping the scrape put my ship into the pol's hanger and my vulture disapeared into nothing.
It might be fun in about 10 years when they can finally get all these different systems implemented and maybe balanced. The question is can this company survive that long.
@@senn4237 you said it. will the money last..
C2 is still nearly unusable in 4 live due to bouncing around the hangar. And last night local jump points weren’t working.
There's a big difference between shipping human hearts and shipping a load of cobalt. One is a purchase/sell situation and the other should be a mission task. Human hearts aren't a typically bought/sold commodity. Small cargo haulers should operate more like an Amazon truck and less on the scale of an 18 wheeler. For large haulers, reliable routes is key to making them worth running. Low profit/high reliability in profit vs a smaller hauler which has high profit but no reliable routes.
Wish i could bring materials from piro to Stanton, then take things like equipment back. (Tanks, atvs, mining drills, ext) not crates all the time.
We could replace the UI team with wild Ducks pecking a keyboard and do as well
I enjoy loading and unloading cargo. But the stress of buggy elevators makes most people avoid the activity.