SaltEMike Reacts to CIG Explaining How Cargo Works in 4.0
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- Опубликовано: 19 дек 2024
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It should be really easy in game to search for places wanting to buy commodities. No trader in real life would buy a truckload of a commodity and drive around hoping to find a buyer, they would arrange sale before leaving. This should be possible in the game. Enter a menu for trade, search for buyers of a specific commodity and then make an agreement for them to accept your cargo when you get there. Job done.
And companies doing the shipping (like what you do in game) don’t actually pay for the commodities, they are just shipping. This game has you do both
In X4 Foundations, you set up a trade order for ships. The items ate reserved, paid for when picked up, and profit when sold.
@@leoormesher2762 i believe thats more how the cargo missions work. this is free form cargo and your where your acting as a bit more of a travelling salesman.
You realistically need a player who is really into spreadsheets and bureaucracy in order to do all the logistics for you. I would, but I do bureaucracy for a living, and I just wanna be a space trucker.
This system linking traders to buyers, arrives - in game - in Q4 2026.
What about cargo centres; since their introduction not much has happened with them? Why can't we trade more with them?
Same thing with the Freelancer. Forgotten on the back burner.
Exactly,that's what CIG they inferred that distbution centre would be busy with haulage and deliveries.
The Cargo Centers I believe are not meant to be a store for commodities. It's more or less just a warehouse.
@@Strasak-- or a fancy FPS map
Why does Sakura Sun (component manufacturer) have security that shoots on sight? So many questions....
I just loooove that the devs have an idea of how the game should be played but it takes bug submissions and forum posts to get them to communicate those ideas
they have a job to do, they can't sit around writing on spectrum all day about stuff that isn't finished/open to change, that would be a waste. Ideas are ideas for a reason
@ironwarr and yet they are on Spectrum all the time. I don’t disagree that it’s a waste of their time. I’d prefer CIG address communication issues proactively and make that someone else’s full-time job
Only a basic idea and only took 11 years..
@ironwarr no one is asking them to. Why isn't Jared covering this stuff? How do they expect us to test features if they don't tell us what the feature is supposed to be? This game is WAY too complex and incomplete for them to treat this like it's a fun surprise. It's not.
This was talked about in ISC long ago. I even remember Tony Zurovec explaining it.
there is no real hard restriction they are not going to prevent large ships from trading in whatever cargo you want... its just going to be super inconvenient to have to go to multiple sites with a huge ship just to get a little bit of cargo... its like going to a 7-11 with a transport truck to try to fill it with all their chips.. sure you could do it but if you wanna fill that truck its gonna take you alot of stops at 7-11's to do it.
it's an awesome design and very realistic
I totally agree.
As someone who spent years working in logistics, I wouldn't send a massive artic (Caterpillar?) to pick up a couple of boxes or a pallet from some family run shop in a little country village somewhere. I'd send a local courier in a sprinter van (Cutter), to bring it back to my nearest transport depot where I'd consolidate it into a bulk container with other groupage cargo. I'd then trunk it to an airport or seaport for loading into a cargo plane (C2) or container ship (Hull-C/D/E? Ironclad?) for international shipping, or to a distribution centre for domestic delivery by more 7.5tonners (Cutty? MSR?) or more sprinters.
For something really urgent or high value I'd maybe do it door to door, even internationally across Europe, in a single dedicated courier (Herald? MSR? Zeus?) at a significant premium.
It seems like these are the kinds of real world patterns of efficiency and consolidation they're looking to replicate. It honestly sounds pretty cool and like it has lots of gameplay potential, rather than being a hard limit.
For example, you and your 4 friends in Pyro jump in a bunch of Cutters and to collect low volume high value cargo from all over the system, a few SCU from outposts all over. You bring those disparate small collections back to one RR station, where together you load it all (safely via freight elevators in private hangars), into something more proportionate to the consolidated volume ... An ironclad maybe, or a Hull series if you've been particularly busy bees... You all crew that larger ship for the flight back to Stanton or Terra, leaving your Cutters at the station. You can then either make a big bulk sale at an orbital or legrange point in Stanton from your bulk carrier, or once again distribute it out onto smaller ships for you each to crew in search of the low volume high value sale.
Sounds pretty sweet to me if they can balance the cost and sale prices realistically to the distance, supply, demand, effort etc.
Addendum; I wouldn't *deliberately* send the artic to the little village. At least not without buying the driver an apology beer the next day. 😅
Its a ludricrous design and makes things like base crafting and even shipbuilding look like they will be prohibitively arduous when they actually come out.
Sounds a bit to me as if every department of CIG is working on a different Game and none of them communicate with eachother . . . .
yeah they do that, they said they add things and they will be later connecting it all, but im not sure if this is what you are talking about rn, im just starting the video
It's very apparent that Chris Roberts main focus from 2012 till today was SQ42, hence why we see that in many cases CIG has put the cart before the horse with exception of how they develop the systems for SQ42. I'm convinced that even now they haven't bothered to create any Design Briefs for Gameplay loops, hence why they keep pumping out content that doesn't really fit the scope of the 'intended gameplay'.
Scarcity based commodity pricing is what we need. If no one has sold steel to Hurston all day, I want to see offers increase. I want to see NPC haulers. So you could spend time wrecking NPC steel haulers, and then go and sell steel for a premium to that destination because it would be scarce.
Wouldn't that cargo be flagged as stolen though? Therefore you'd only be able to sell at grimhex or pyro?
Only if it's from mission spawned cargo missions I think. Resources bought straight by players I *think* won't be labeled stolen
I think what they need is a wide variety of cargo boxes/pallets that allow oddly shaped things or small uniformly shaped things, to be combined into a form factor that i compatible with cargo grids. The simplest example being pallets that allow for combining many small cargo boxes into one larger sized cargo box. The most exotic being a pallet that has built in hard points for mounting ship weapons onto a stackable pallet, compatible wit the cargo grid. Could also be done with ship components, where the box/pallet could have mounting points, where ship components could attach to, securing them and making their container stackable and stable.
They got those hover trolleys, that in my opinion can be used as pallet and moved without extra machinery.
The reply to the reply was pretty funny.
Commentor: it doesn’t make sense to take this sort of risk unless the return on investment is 400%+
Cig dev: best we can offer is 12%
We need that 4x ROI to hire escorts and patrols. I get that they want to balance the game so that trading isn't OP, but if our hiring rates aren't competitive with bounty contracts, then it makes more sense for a given PvP player to choose bounties or piracy instead.
@@4tonmike 4x ROI just means you do it in the off-peak time for a server and keep all the profits. Unless these goods are limited to being available prime-time, "hiring escorts" is just a meme.
@@stopmotion4535
Heh. "Hiring escorts"😉
Yep. Unfortunately most of the PvP incidents I've encountered were during off time hours. 2-6 AM. My guess is less players also mean less risk for griefers retaliation too.
The main goal is that we don't want a C2 and Cutty competing for the same commodities. OMG it's as if they're repeating back to me what I wrote out in all those feedback threads and have been saying for years. I'm sure this is what most people were saying but it's rare that CIG really understands it. Between the future mining ideas and this my mind is pretty blown.
My biggest piece of advice when it comes to trading in SC has always been "Send the big and small ships on completely different routs and make sure it's not efficient for the larger ships to fill up on as much of the high value commodities as possible before moving onto the bulk items intended for their size of ship." You probably need the players to sell and/or purchase way off their normal bulk commodity trade route (so the C2 can do the Cutty Black trade if they want but it doesn't really make sense interrupting their normal bulk trade route).
Off couse, because that is completely logical. Is common sense and fits with realism. I dunno if CIG understands or not, but they keep it for themselves most of the time so we only can guess.
20:56 💯 They need to view the community as collaborators instead of opponents. It’s almost like they don’t understand how human nature works and how to work well with it.
Commodity info doesn't need to be a UI thing they could put up a trade board at ttd's and station admins to start and add to the UI later just list all the in system locations and what they are buying and selling at price per scu
In theory that's how it should go. In planets the Trade Centers got the boards, but there was a hint for remote boards with the Ursa Lynx. Mess halls can have monitors where to toggle such info.
6:52 Yeah. So they should open price data to the community in the meantime, so we can make our own tools that we can use for the next 4-5 years. But CIG doesn’t want to do that, because they think they’re going to get it done soon.
Absolutely not.... UEX does a great job using player driven data. CIG doing it would just be handing it to you on a plate and takes away from basic exploration
soon tm
I would love to get back into trading, most urgently IMO, we need to be able to look up which locations are purchasing what. Flying to, landing and checking manually is absolutely ridiculous. I want a trade tab on my mobi where I can look at any commodity, ore, component, etc. and view the prices at all locations for purchasing and selling. Seems like a very basic feature that is missing.
I think it's fine to artificially cap the amount of a specific commodity or ore that I can find in an outpost, their storage would be limited, like say 36 SCU. This would make something like a Cutty Black more appealing for running that cargo. But as a C2 hauler I should be able to visit 20 outposts to fill my ship with that same commodity if I choose.
We need crates for ship components, particularly launches and guns. Actual system units are regular enough to move around and snap to the grid like SCU boxes. Ship weapons would need to be placed into a container and then that container snaps to the cargo grid so it doesn't bounce all over the place.
They have them in 4.0. I don't think we can get them, but I was doing a CZ Hangar, and it had cargo crates with ship weapons nestled in some foam inside of them.
They have 16 scu boxes modeled with open ends and nothing in them, but we can't get them.
@drewbydoobydoo2918 That's great to hear!
@@steppahouse it is *if* they allow us to buy/use them
They need at the very least an in-game codex of commodities, that tells us 1.what they are, 2. where can I generally find them, 3. Who should I be selling them to.
I don't even need specifics, just give us generalizations - like you can find more ICE the farther away from the sun you go.. then tell us what that could be used for to hint at where the demand might be. I think that would be a fantastic first step. (honestly, I think the game is in DIRE need of an in-game codex, but that's another discussion)
CIG is killing trade entirely. Guess im going to have to stick to hauling missions in Stanton to avoid all the bs.
Could make some goofy commodity that *insert bs lore reason like the scm explanation” so the more you carry the lower its instability timer before explosion and make it meta. Set the timer so certain sized ships cant fill up and sell.
The outpost hangar solution is the real solution, but cig doesnt want the prey too safe
Their last gameplay changes only punish pve players to the max, you cant flee with shields on to have a chance, you now get restrictions on what to trade and where and it all is in favor to pvp players that now have a way easier time to find and kill players
And then you have streamers like this that say they have 2 people just searching for things in game for them the whole time just for them.... Then they preach to you about how solo players need to get held back. Solo PVE players are always getting fucked and people like this that have bodies on hand at the drop of a pin can't even separate themselves enough to see "normal" players.
Most things they've done over the past year cater more towards group gank fests and not solo or PVE content
Star Map should include a lot of information per PoI. Commodities for sale/purchase, what shops if any are there, what kind of landinghangars are available etc
This would be extremely ideal.
Ships like Hull-E cant bring their cargo planet side. CIG did tell us a long time ago that you would see bulk cargo being moved between stations and then smaller ships moving cargo between the planets and the stations.
This still hasnt been implemented. Realistically though, there should be missions/contracts to move cargo between stations and planets. But if you want to cut out the middle man and move a commodity like Food straight from a farm straight to a planet city it should pay higher because you are not dealing with the middle man
So Hull E should be selling more for cheaper, but make up the profit on volume
The Hull E will move cargo from system to system. Specially from Stanton to Terra.
Pryo sucks for industrial loops as one can't get from point a to b without getting ganked...
Spectrum official post is by definition 1st party, no?
9:59 Sums up the era were in right now lol
Honestly I think the best route to give players a progression path with cargo is to simply factor in the mass of cargo. For example you may only be able to half fill your cutlass cargo due to the mass of the commodity you’re hauling which would prompt you to work for a bigger, more powerful, ship which can haul more mass.
I wonder when this server meshing will take off. People are like wow 500 people. But it is actually 500 on 10 servers, where in the past it was 100 on 1. Which means a 50 percent reduction in performance if 4.0 can do only 500. So it is worse then what it was in the past. It just allows them to shove more servers in to help, but that won't make it any cheaper to run. I hope some day they actually going to look into making it more performant.
I don't remember them saying it could only do 500 players to a shard, but we also only have 2/5 of the verse they've got planned. This is just a first iteration, so I'd expect a few bumps in shard player count as well go, with the bigger bumps coming with the other systems. The average player count per sever isn't as important though. I get a better game when there aren't 100 people on my server lol.
But yeah, I'd look more at how it feels than just the raw averaged numbers. Those will shift as they go anyway.
What I would love to see is a contract-style ui element which would not only show where a particular commodity can be bought or sold, but also the current values. A great second phase to this would be a dynamic pricing system which would adjust depending on the flow of those commodities in and out of each location. In turn, I feel that this would automatically adjust risk/reward/quantities etc due to the transactions made by the player base.
At least in live, the Journal tab in the Mobiglass has a commodity price update (or some similarly wording entry). I have not played 4.0 PTU to see if it exists there. But that might be your source of information, and even if it's not working currently, at least it's something they could probably use to add information without involving the UI team.
The comment on the UI team still not having the starmap done is a prime example of what is possibly CIG's biggest problem. They've tried to go for way too much in this game. They don't have enough personnel to create it. Even the personnel they have are underperforming in some areas as mentioned above. On top of that, once the game is finished, it will take a larger than expected number of personnel to maintain a game with so many moving parts. This will require an extraordinary amount of monthly cash flow, which they will never get unless they can pull this thing out of the gutter.
The personel is either busy making another game that now is voiced to be released in 2026, or trying to make servers operable.
Kind of makes sense, like A class, B class, you carry mats based on the size of ship based on resource usage/fuel, etc.
As soon as you explained hangars it blew my mind. Such a simple thing that can REALLY help!
Having different ships for different commodities is entirely logical - that's how the real world works. You have tankers, break-bulk carriers, RO/ROs, container vessels, with multiple configurations for each type.
We should absolutely have at the MINIMUM - Container ships, break-bulk ships, and fueling/gas vessels (for neon or other gases).
Easiest way to make it easier for cargo players, since the ability to list commodities in the in game ui just isn’t even on the horizon, just publish somewhere what’s what and where’s where publicly as a temporary equivalent, rather than just keeping what cargo info should be visible but can’t currently close too chest for no reason.
edit: just got to the end, two minds think alike
It's like waiting for a tram
I'm a trucker. They should get some truckers to talk about the dynamics of the actual freight market and how you could form it or encourage it in game.
Reality is, the C2 should accel at either large and heavy volume freight OR the ability to haul several smaller orders at a time, the pilots ability to organize and plan routes is how they would make more money with that type of ship.
The Caterpillar is even better because of the compartmentalization. however the catwalk is annoying as hell.
Kind of like how I use the C2 to run 5-6 individual haul missions that all drop at the same locations. Takes a bit longer to load, organize and plan, but ultimately it does make more money.
So I REALLY like the idea here. The problem is the players. I can't trade with a C1 in small high value cargo because inevitably there's going to be a guy on another server spamming buy to fill his C2
Well I will say this. I'm very happy that they are making an effort at keeping smaller cargo haulers relevant. That was something I have been worried about for some time. I didn't want cargo hauling to devolve to everyone running around in C2s and Ironclads and Hull Cs. I think its important for ship variety and just general gameplay for certain things to be limited to smaller ships. I still think they should go back to wormhole sizing restricting certain ship sizes as a further mechanic to incentivize smaller ships of all kinds, not just cargo haulers, but anyway. I'm glad to see CIG is making a concerted effort to keep the smaller ships relevant.
Selling ships without first having a solid plan for gameplay is the Achilles heel of Star Citizen.
i am finally seeing a real game form around the 4.0 ptu, even sc content creators are talking more about how to play and seem to know what the puzzle pieces are, its just now fitting them into a coherent vision for everyone.
Add a trade module thing to the ship, so you can see prices in an area so once you traveled you have the prices.
So they get saved in your mobiglass. Or hell an app you can purchase on your mobiglass for all i care. No reason it should be api / third party sites. And just started the video so might get covered in it 😂
sounds like they don't know how to balance the economy. You make the rare commodities low availability and high value. you can farm the smaller boxes with smaller ships and then have multiple smaller ships dump off thier goods at a C2 waiting to haul the goods to a safe zone that has high demand. by doing the "balance" like he's describing they kill logistics chains, which should play an important role in crafting and overall trade. Typically if an item is rare, it just means you make more when you have a shitton of it. if you're willing to put in the time it shouldn't matter what ship carries the goods. If they're going to limit what ships can carry they need to put weight in the game. this gameified crap is just crap.
thanks for getting this out there mike. also, couldnt agree more with the tier -1 mobi info dump. its something an intern or junior could do with little guidance, and the small time investment for such a thing would be worth the better data that will come from it, for the cig economy folks and general testers alike
You could have a magic SCU box that holds more weapons than it theoretically should. Special 24 SCU transport box built by grey cat it stacks weapons perfectly so saves a colossal amount of space.
Took a blizzard cooler, an avalanche cooler, and a coverall shield generator from pyro contested zones to orson. They only sold for 1,800, 1200, and 910 auec respectively.
lol like stuff is going to work. almost got us
They really need to make a market API that allows the community to pull data for tooling
The last time I tried cargo hauling in my freelancer I got killed after landing at an outpost, just before I tried unloading a measly amount of hydrogen from a hauling mission. For being a “lawful” star system, it really isn’t.
Seriously, who trades with a Cutty anyway.
If it’s the biggest ship you own…
In the same way that maps are provided in game for major locations, there should be some rudimentary system wide supply and demand information available in game - requested through mobiglass. Perhaps they could create a location at each major landing zone that would serve as an information Center for Development of Trade. Nah, they would just make it back asswards anyway.
They need to add a trade computer screen with info about commodities and prices to each trade ship. Just a pop up ui would be fine. Same for navigation.
I feel like the merchantman and multiplayer aspect around it will end up fleshing out the cargo system in ways we might not be seeing. Just a guess.
Just take it all to Jita IV
Isn't this already fostering kind of a "shadow" data running model? Folks who are interested in that loop can visit various locations, make note of what they buy/sell, and then sell that information to traders. Get in a fast ship, zip around taking notes, and sell that info.
The way freelancer did it was the best. You could buy rumours for different planets sales and needs from the bars. I feel like that is the way to go for the non player economy as it adds another sink and could be taken away gradually as the player run economy takes over.
Youve been ERADICATED
If you hate moving cargo,....your not a cargo hauler....best money is pick up safe drop in high risk/Contrsted.....everyone has it back wards...go to Pyro to see what they need then go to Stanton, then STAY SAFE and sell to highest buyer.....buy as you wish...do what you want....if you want more think outside the box and step your game up
I enjoy loading and unloading cargo. But the stress of buggy elevators makes most people avoid the activity.
There's a big difference between shipping human hearts and shipping a load of cobalt. One is a purchase/sell situation and the other should be a mission task. Human hearts aren't a typically bought/sold commodity. Small cargo haulers should operate more like an Amazon truck and less on the scale of an 18 wheeler. For large haulers, reliable routes is key to making them worth running. Low profit/high reliability in profit vs a smaller hauler which has high profit but no reliable routes.
Why not make it like we have today?
Small cargo ships for interplanetary selling/buying. Medium for intersystem selling/buying and large for system selling/buying.
A location on a planet can only do small amounts of buying/selling. Stations/landing zones can take more while they could make distribution stations in a central location that takes large amounts of cargo and then has it distributed across the system.
Distribution (large), stations/landing zones (medium), outposts (small)
I don't think 'Large" ship trade (Pyro-Stanton) is viable until you can make it through the wormhole most every time.
Cargo hauling in Pyro: spend an hour loading all of the hauling contract cargo, and then get shot and waste time for nothing.
Let’s make mining locations and trade routes time limited and actually lootables in contested zones on data pads that players can sell and trade
Personally, I don't like the auto-load thing. To be specific, I dont like the "Magical" auto-load thing. I want to be able to see the station loading/unloading cargo or to be able to do this faster if you have the crew (or Station NPCs, ATLSs, Station Tractor Beams etc). Other that that, I agree. I don't want hard-limits on what each ship is meant to carry. Also, I'm fine with some outposts not having hangars and autoload features, but I would like to see some POIs to have those on each system (unless they introduce a completely uninhabited system).
14:00 so basically where is our Jita gonna be and we don't have a proper infrastructure to fully commit to hauling.
Hull C Trading is fun when it works, keywords right there, when it works. However I've lost more money trying to pickup the commodities that I just paid for but never get loaded because of game bug reasons. Honestly there are a few things I would love to have changed for that in regards to the Hull C if not trading in general, I should be able to purchase and store the commodity in my warehouse for one with my Hull C, both loading and unloading. I should also instead of docking going in to sell cargo, get undocked and going to cargo, it should just be allowed to call up the cargo dock right off the bat have your stuff unloaded into the "local warehouse" and then you dock/go in to the station to sell off the inventory you just delivered. Honestly right now I just want my Hull C to work cause I like the idea of carrying so much cargo to sell, its why I got the Hull D, but even I see that the issues with that is that demand is easily met in game and so a Hull C's cargo capacity quickly overshadows a station's demand for supplies. I don't want to sit there for hours/days trying to sell a handful of the items at a time and not going around doing trading elsewhere with my Hull C+ I want to load it up with all that delicious cargo and unload that cargo. I honestly can't see how the Hull D, which has roughly around 5x the cargo capacity of the Hull C, much less the Hull E will work in a game where demands are nowhere sufficient enough to justify using said ships.
I dislike the idea of ships for certain items specifically because the community would scream that it's just forcing people to get more ships and overly complicating it. I don't like the idea of shoehorning a ship into one specific hauling type for unnecessary reasons. The way they do it, or claim it'll work, makes some sense to me. They aren't saying you can't use a c2 to grab those smaller items. Just it makes more sense to use something smaller. You could easily fly around to all those locations and buy up all of it and slowly load the C2. But it makes sense the higher value items may be in smaller quantities assuming high value is because the material is rarer and wouldn't normally be available is large quantities without going around and rounding it up.
It has to be that stations are running out of supplies like water, weapons and food if they don't get deliveries. The lower they get on supplies the better the price has to be. But it's essential that they can run out of stuff. No fuel delivered. Bad nobody can refuel. No FPS weapons or ammo delivered. No guns to buy etc. That would be good for trade and the economy. Places must actually produce something with raw materials. That's where this should go.
So starsim, got it. 😂
That would be a cool idea but they need to really allow auto loading. There’s no way I can imagine a space trucker carrying tons of cargo doesn’t have any help from the station employees to help unload. It’s painful to carry cargo all in one single containers what type of gameplay is that fun
The thing I really hope we see is player driven trading to the point that, if certain goods dont get somewhere those locations cant function, like you can fuel your ships or get ammo or food unless x shipments arrive. cross system trading should be do able from gateway station to gateway stations, but also beyond. I for one wish H2o was a more important commodity to mine and be needed to deliver for stations to perform at best capacity. Remember the Cant'!
to add, im totally content hauling waste and scrap for small margins as long as there is positive earnings per session. The aUEC/Hour madness is a bit over blown and hurts trade over all. I guess smaller value will come into play for construction and crafting will make those items more sought after.
@@flightsimulatoradventures7246
I like that idea too. X4 Foundations does that.
Problem is that CIG has already mentioned that players are participating in a much larger background NPC economy, which effectively means there are artificial guardrails on the tops and bottoms of prices. What a shame.
Traders are not only risk capped by pirate activity and bugs, but also profit capped.
I get that they want to balance things out, but if a trader can't compete with ERT bounties when hiring escort pilots to deter piracy (or provide content for PvP pirates) then traders go without and eventually get screwed over or don't trade at all.
You also have to deal with some places not purchasing larger size SCU containers.
I would envision all locations putting in orders (missions) for commodities that are needed in ea location. I would also think like Bourbon_Gaming have a trade board or something to show where commodities can be purchased minus the UEE value. If were trying to be "Real World" there should be open orders with maybe limited missions to that location for xx SCU needed.
Dude I was just asking in spectrum if there is something coming out for us to know where can we sell our bought commodities without relying in a site outside the game, Ive been traumatized by those times where 30ks where every 20 minutes so having cargo on my ship for long periods of time gets me nervous, so going station from station see who take it its just not very fun.
Scouts in starter ships could check prices manually, but you'd need higher margins to hire them.
We could replace the UI team with wild Ducks pecking a keyboard and do as well
We really need an in game way to check what stations and outposts buy and sell things without having to run around the entire game looking to see for ourselves all while hauling around cargo for pirates to snatch. why is it that a thousand years in the future we cant just look up who is buy and selling what? i highly doubt in lore that haulers just wander around looking who's willing to buy their crap.
Bro is so far ahead of the development hes worried about economy. Dude it dosent matter take a vacation your stressing over nothing. You play this game right you see how it plays, can it even be fixed? Do you see what we have after 14 years? The buggest game ever and it sometimes take 3 hours to even get started, because you have to server hop when elvators dont work, your ship can still randomly blow up now and then, and finaly server errors. Ui errors, party reticule not working half the time. Quest indicaters disapearing. Bugged hanger issue, claim time bugs where you have to keep claiming for it to finally work. Expitdite ship issues, Certian animation issues. Docking issue where it makes your whole ship disapear, or wont ato dock/manaul dock. Npc issues galore. Polaris hanger bugs/ship'(s) disapering or armasist zone bug etheir the polaris or the ship in your polaris's hanger. Qt drive bugs here and there. Cargo lifts not working half the time planet side. Fps problems and so much more. This game is trash right now bro with the promise it will get better but when? I wouldnt even be worried about pyro and tradeing.
People thought manually loading cargo was going to fun but it turns it's not? No... Nobody with there head remotely screwed on thought manually loading more than 10 boxes would be enjoyable.
For some reason this guy gives me clarity
Maybe make the ship specific cargo with different storage modules fit different ships. As example gas or liquid tanks need to be preinstalled and dont fit in every ship cause the support beam in the ship structure wouldnt support the weight or the engines are to close and the vibration would be risky. Same for ore that need support beams that are build for the ship to halt the weight. Maybe for weapon there could be a law thing that restrict a maximum numbers of carried weapons and if you carry more you could do that at your own risk. I like the idea for specialization, but with the option to switch a lil bit without buying a new ship. Just make a timeor money restriction that you can switch betwin types of cargo.
21:55 hey mike, you ask if CIG might post useful data now in raw form, then make it look pretty later?... no CIG will only make things look pretty first, then useful later-- they won't post any data until they can make it transparent blue and a blurry hologram in a font that is nearly unreadable but looks futuristic alieeennn...
Also, readily available pricing info is necessary for pirates to ambush lazy traders.
As far as spreadsheets going or them releasing any like standard information about where these things are I mean I think that's part of Lee going to be scanning and people selling information
Once again we see the brilliant incompetence of CIG on high here. No dept at CIG talks to each other.. they're all makig their own game without communicating to each other, and they all ahve their own vision and understanding of what the game is supposed to be, and how it currently plays...
And ther are still people out there who think:
1) This game won't be a dumpster fire at release if it ever releases.
2) They think this game will come out before 2040. (It won't, in any real way. They might push a fake 1.0 full release out the door, but it won't be, because 85% of the promised stuff from 10 years ago isn't even remotely close to being in the game yet, that was supposed to be full release.)
I see, were getting rare trades and bulk trades outside of just drugs vs materials
In short, players should be finding this information themselves.
Play the cargo missions. They take you to all the different locations that buy and sell stuff. While there, you can checkout what they buy, what they sell and in what sort of quantities. You can check out the prices. Take note of that information. It is valuable. It doesn't take long to get to a point where commodity trading is better by orders of magnitude than cargo missions. But there is also far more risk.
It is kinda tedious to listen SC players complain gameplay loops either don't exist or aren't well developed enough when they won't even engage with what's already there. And these players who are crying about loading boxes being too much are the same players who will crow about SC's fidelity and physicalised everything. If discovering trade routes is too hard, exploration gameplay will be DOA and nobody will want to be an engineer.
Just admit you're all here for the JPGs.
CIG wants haulers to PAY for security from the player base. It's that SIMPLE. Don't like getting jacked? HIRE SECURITY or take the risk and deal with the consequences.
Gee who would have thought manually loading and unloading physicalized cargo would not be fun??? Oh wait… literally dozens of us who were screaming about it in comments and on the forums for the past year or 2. CIG, wake up. No one wants a box moving sim
It not hard restricting big ships but its less time efficient and more dangerous
Is this game gonna turn out to be trash? Im Searously consider it. Its so broken with so many bugs, im tired of it. I just want to use the vulture/Polaris after scrapping the scrape put my ship into the pol's hanger and my vulture disapeared into nothing.
It might be fun in about 10 years when they can finally get all these different systems implemented and maybe balanced. The question is can this company survive that long.
@@senn4237 you said it. will the money last..
I still don't know why CIG doesn't just send Mike a paycheck for real world testing and take his findings seriously?
Some advice nobody asked for from me, If I was CIG , Moneyball a Delta Force test crew, like, NOW, ...maybe John Winters, Salt E, CozyBoy, AV1, Foxy, Voidy, BoredGamer, Berks, Buzzcut, Tomato, etc?.
If it was at the blue sky phase ( game before ships as Mike said ), give them carte' blanche on opinions and take it for real. If NOW, do the same as best you can. It's not like you can't send them a paycheck.
Either that or yea, as many say, Devs need to start PLAYing this game, getting into more rando in game situations. Then planning and using solutions and fixes earlier from their findings.
I've seen a lot of game dev from the other side and CIG is often not taking a "measure twice cut once" approach
At some point, pyro will catch fire.
I think cargo is too easy. 4 minutes to fill up a Starlancer. That is not enough time. People should not be able to load there ship in 4 minutes, fly to another location and unload in 4 minutes to sell and make massive amounts of money. That is not in line with the other game loops. Also where is the dynamic economy. That would change cargo hauling completely based on supply and demand. Some of the areas might be very risky to get or deliver cargo but the payouts would be better. There also needs to be a mobiglass app that keeps up with the prices in real time.
Wasn't cargo missions supposed to teach the good trade routes? Did anyone try to compile all the missions?
I yeeted star citizen folder and suddenly all the frustration with nerfs, rugpulls, lies and cheating went away. I aint installing that shit back till they make it actually worth my time. They fucked me over, got my money but im not FORCED to give them my time as well. Especially if they dont respect it so much.
Ive seen CIG react only in one usecase scenario... when money is involved... no money, your feedback is worthless....
I know ill be following content creators for popcorn effect if anything.
Good luck citizens o7
the miner should have the opportunity to offer his refined goods at the stations for his own price. then you could fly to the stations and go bargain hunting. and traders can distribute goods in stations and offer them at their prices.
i just want XL hangars in space stations so i can do hauling with my big cargo ships, and not only trading cause if we're gonna have to wait till they fix auto cargo loading for hauling i think star citizen 7.0 will be out, i'm also not interested in driving around with 44.5 mpuv tractors and 50 extra personal to carry boxes of scu from my ironclad or anything similar to the hangar every 5 seconds that a hangar door is open i'm playing a space game i'm not running an entire company of goons that do my bidding
Hangers not at outposts is on purpose
Why do we want a speadsheet? Why even play the game if we're just gonna min/max.. Take out a piece of paper, write, "I won everything! and I hauled all the cargo", admire it, feel good about yourself, and then go do something else. Isn't this supposed to be an immersive sim? It's becoming more and more like a live-service game and I want my money back and I think the community is part of the problem.
8:30 "Dont tell me what to trade and what not to trade" is a dumb take... use some critical thinking skills and see what has the highest reward/risk ratio for you. The developer isn't pigeon-holing you either, if you want to trade random commodities to your hearts content you can have fun doing that too. You just won't make as much.
While I understand the desire to post "the spreadsheet" of data, I don't think it's a good idea and I say that as someone who enjoys the industrial elements of the game more than I thought I would (mining 1000%, cargo hauling and Salvage as well). I came into the game thinking I was going to be a bounty hunter and PvP / military type functions. I have fallen in love with the industrial side (possibly because the other side doesn't really have game play but we'll see haha). Anyways, I think it's a bad idea to release the sheet and here's why.
You don't want people to game the system. If you release the spreadsheet data, then people will optimize what commodity to go for creating an entirely solo loop on all aspects: I scout for rock, I mine rock, I refine what I mine, I transport what I refine, I sell what I transport. I think CIG would rather the system be somewhat ambugious to people so it forces people to specialize in one aspect of the loop: I'm a scientist / geologist. I'm a miner. I'm a refiner. I'm a hauler. I'm a business trade person.
Imagine a game loop where people with exploration ships have to stuff regions and then find where good mining spots are. They sell this data to miners who take their operation and come collect all the resource; miners know the optimal ships they need and how to break down that resource to get everything in the highest possible quality condition. Now paired with this operation, those miners might probably also refine on site, knowing exactly what settings to tune to turn that high quality raw resource into a high-quality, finished, sellable one. Or maybe they get it transported to the nearest safest option to do the refining. Once the refining is done, you get a cargo hauling group that know the routes to avoid and where the current pirate blockades are, the best techniques to keep their presence low and the tricks of the trade to disguise their cargo (shielding from scanning - especially if they are smugglers). Finally the get the cargo transported to a local region where a business savvy person will know the best places to take the cargo and sell for the best prices. This practice should change based on market demand, that those business savvy players actually spend the time to know and interest with the system.
You run a system like that, while it's possible for someone to play all roles, it's inefficient so you're just doing it for fun. For people maximizing profit, they have to build relationships with people who stay on top of the respective pieces. In this manner, people can't gamify the system to grossly benefit because CIG released the data.
you are the asmongold of star citizen
Off the subject, what does your "NOTICE" say? ;-)
Or if I can't sell the cobalt, give me some place to turn that cobalt into something else and sell that product for profit.
Trading needs tools, even Elite Dangerous figured out how to show me what I buy is cheaper/more expensive than galactic average, also the map shows me what to move to where, even without having to go to third party websites I can figure out trade routes... Not so much in SC :|