Combining & Linking Bends | Smooth Flowing Motorcycle Riding on Country B Roads | Limit point
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- Опубликовано: 21 май 2021
- A more detailed look at positioning for bends, particularly looking at blending one bend smoothly into the next. I look at reading the road and using the Limit Point and Observation Links to help in the planning process of where to position the bike. The aim is to move the bike from one position to the next in a planned and unhurried way, to achieve safe, smooth, flowing progress.
00:12 Introduction
01:04 Slow motion analysis
13:23 Full speed smooth riding
#IPSGA #ridingtips #motorcycle #vlogger #advancedriding #iamroadsmart 
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Great breakdown and application of your strategy... cheers Mike.
Stay well
Steve.
Thanks 👍
As an Associate driver this is a great demonstration/explanation of limit points, and how when linking bends the limit point is often closer to you than you think. Thanks very much.
Chris, glad you found it useful. You may like this follow on video also ruclips.net/video/PjExMZvqTeE/видео.html
These instructional videos are really helpful, this is one of things my observer wants me to work on for our next ride so this was well timed for me. Thanks!
Great to hear! Encourages me to do more.
Watching this with Leanna, nothing wrong here, excellent explanation. Thanks.
Thanks Russ.
Great upload Mike, I've shared this with my current ERS students, love the way you break it down into easily digestible sections. Very useful, especially the point about obstructed views where the whole width of road is not yet visible, preventing change of position until the view opens up fully. Excellent stuff, thank you, Leanna 😊
Thanks. Yes not holding position long enough to actually get the view is a common problem some riders have. Of course some over do it, hold position way too long and then it's a mad rush to take up position for the next bend.
Hi pal very good video please keep up the good work regards chris
Thanks, will do!
Far and away the most helpful explanation of Limit Points that I’ve come across. Thanks a lot for the work you’ve put in to produce it.
Great to hear! This video uses the limit point in the planning of positioning. Perhaps I need to do a similar one on using it for initial bend assessment and choice of speed?
Great video Mike as always, thank you and keep them coming
Thanks Paul, just published a new one.
I enjoyed that Mike. In my role as an IAM examiner I’ve been thinking of doing something similar. Your way of slowing things down for presentation purposes worked well. Many roads up here are far more intensive in terms of bends per mile.
Thanks. I've used different techniques on my channel. Some have live commentary, some over dubbed comments, some are just captioned. I've used the freeze frame technique before on my roundabouts series ruclips.net/p/PL2VaWaOwZyrb9w4xiad1gd-4ZHA1NUU9R but didn't slow the footage down.
Thanks Mike. I'm currently working on this with an associate, and this will mesh perfectly with the practical riding.
Sounds great! Great to hear from others using these with their associates
An interesting and valuable subject Mike, well presented in the video. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Another very helpful video and well explained. Unless I have missed it, bend assessment, choice of speed and gear would be helpful.
Mark, thanks for the comment and watching another of my videos. It's impossible to cover everything in each video, so I try to concentrate on one particular aspect at a time. There's a couple of other videos that go hand in hand with this one. ruclips.net/video/lA2n-fT3CBw/видео.html and ruclips.net/video/PjExMZvqTeE/видео.html As a rider we need to build our knowledge on all the parts of Roadcraft and then combine them into our riding.
Hi Mike
Ohhh this is such a good video 👌 I can’t remember when I last heard the phrase dead-ground and the need to sometimes hold positions. Plus the the section on not moving back into position 3 on that left bend to then (possibly) have to move back to 2 👏👍
Excellent stuff. Great to see some more brilliant clips and commentary.
Have a good week Mike
Glad you enjoyed it! I'm planning to do some more videos. I'm keeping the camera on for most of my riding now looking for good example situations to discuss various techniques/observations.
@@mikeroberts great, I’ll be keeping a eye out for more 👏
Slow motion was Very helpful thanks...
Glad it helped
On the first bend you were in as you say position number 3 for better forward vision. However on approaching that bend or curve in the road it it appeared that you moved into road position number 2, the sump line as you ended up further away from the centre line,. Both positions were safe and would have been good for the curvature of that first bend.
At 4.00 we have a right hand bend and are in position number 1 near to the kerb [ about 2/3ft away ] and are continuing round that bend. However to our nearside there were two entrances with a loose gravel or similar surface to them . That was not mentioned at all and our position did not change as we remained in position 1. .
The question is if there is a such a junction to our nearside on such a bend should we not at least move over to our right slightly to equal the possible dangers of vehicles emerging from it or even of the gravel from it being brought out and into our surface.
Hello Mike
Thanks again for great video
Here In Spain on May 11 speed limits changed so all roads rural are now 30KM IE 18.64 mph across the whole country with huge fines for no compliance.
50km on dual carriageway
120 kmh on motorway
So making riding quite interesting.
Don't think I have ridden the FJR at 18.64 kmh for some time lol.
Seem to spend more time looking for police limit points.
Take care thanks again.
Regards Tony Knowler
Thanks. Wow, that sounds low. I'd read it was for urban roads, so within the confines of a town/city/settlement.
@@mikeroberts Hello Mike
Yes that's correct, interurban roads at 55mph.
Thanks for your time again 👍
this B road make's mine look like a motorway.
This is a reasonably large B road, like many that criss cross Suffolk and East Anglia.
@@mikeroberts yes, unfortunately i live in Derbyshire where the B roads are like pack horse routs.
Looks like a nice road to ride. I saw a lot of curves and some bends, no tight corners. so one can keep up on the top end of speeds as you did pretty well. Your speeds were at the top end of 55 to 60 mph throughout with maybe just one or two where one needed to be slower to 40 mph. One of the issues that I have with Roadcraft and therefore all other training established organisations who follow their guidance is that we see the safe speed being associated at 100% with the limit point. However when it actually comes to safe braking distances with the degree of turn and lean and speed that we can be obtain it will actually be different from those that can be obtained on a straight road and also the distances to that limit point. Sometimes whilst we are leant over we fail to recognise that our actual braking capacity is being compromised. Yes we can brake on a curve or bend, its something we do u regularly and probably unconsciously but if the distance to stop in at 60 mph is close to 240ft by the H.C if we are leant over at say 30 deg or tilt then as we will only have some 70% of braking capacity left. Therefore if we need to brake in any distance shorter than that 240ft we are in trouble as heavy braking could cause us to lose our grip and the end result could be fata
The limit point sometimes is as I have said not the actual braking distance but riders, even trained ones believe that it is. For example at 11.24 through to 11.30. some 6 seconds you are on a left hand bend in position 2 mid line of carriageway and there are hedges to your nearside that block you view of the road ahead , You decide not to go into position 3 as having had just been passed by an oncoming vehicle you decide to stay in position 2 rather than position 3 which you say might have caused you to sacrifice that position again should another vehicle be approaching you on that bend. Ok so you are taking that bend at 48 mph by your speedo.
At 50 mph your safe stopping distance is about 160ft to 175f ft depending on which authority you follow. That said your actual clear vision on that particular bend is reduced to being only about 130 ft. So with sever and harsh braking in the event of an emergency, such as a complete blocking of that road ahead apart from possibly losing all grip, you would not be able to stop should the need arise. If your lean angle was say 15 % from vertical it means that you would only have some 85% of grip still available and that means compromised braking capacity. With only 85% capacity of braking your safe stopping distance would be increased proportionately, so much further than the mere 130 ft that you have to the limit point.
Thanks for the comment. I take it the rest of it was useful and correct? Sad nerd that I am, I got out my calculator. There's 5 to 6 hazard line/gap combinations visible. Each of these are (if they've been painted to specification) 900cms (600cm line, 300cm gap). My calculator makes that 147ft to 177ft in old money. My speedo says 48, so that's a real speed of 45/6 allowing for display damping and its known over-reading. Also the bike is virtually upright on modern tyres with a flat profile. I'd say I was well within my stopping distances/speed parameters.
@@mikeroberts If you say so. Tho I do believe that at the point that I measured there was little more than 4 hazard lines with spaces. So we will agree to differ on that one. That said the point is still a valid one. As regards to lean angle I estimate that your lean angle from the vertical moved between 12 to 14 Deg so there was a lean although it was not a considerable one its still a lean that takes the contact patch away from the center of the tyre. Without any lean angle no bends could be taken and one has to take that into account.
Also the limit point that we all appear to ride to can actually be too close to stop in and we are advised some 12 times in Police Roadcraft specifically on the chapter on bends alone, to always ride at a speed that we can stop in the distance seen to be clear and on our side of the road. They also know that the limit point is sometimes not far enough away from us to stop in and thats why its repeated so many times for bends.
@@judgedredd49 On modern tyres, not being on the central contact patch is not as bad as it used to be. With the multiple profile tyres now manufactured there isn't the same 'falling off the edge' that there used to be. Of course our ability to brake heavily is reduced. With regard to your very last sentence, I don't know what you are trying to say. As the limit point is our furthest clear view of the road ahead AND we need to be able to stop in the distance we can see to be clear ... how can the limit point be too close sticking to those two definitions?
@@mikeroberts It matters not whether your particular tyre has a flat bottom profile as when you lean your contact patch will change from being central to being on one side of the centre of the tyre or the other. If it doesn't and it remains the same central patch then you will not be able to turn a bend at all. Turning is all about being on the side of the tyre caused by turning and the the lean angle and as said yours would be up to 15 deg. That said safety is all about the speed in which you engage on the bends and your lean angle and your point of contact ie. your grip level. The greater the speed and the greater the lean angle will change as will the amount of grip that you have available. As they increase then grip levels will diminish.. The more lean the less grip, the more speed and lean the less grip. If your speed was faster your lean angle would be greater and both these measurements lend themselves to having less grip available for braking should the need arise.
This in my point. You may assume that your speed and lean were well inside normal parameters but as you are leaning over, in the event of an emergency there may be the need to brake hard but your braking capacity has already been compromised by a 15 degree lean angle and your braking can only be as much as the remaining grip level that you have, ie 85 %. Now if your limit point, ie the furthest point that you can see, was such that in a straight line and your braking capacity was 100% and not compromised you could probably brake to a standstill in that distance that you can see, up to the limit point. Unfortunately at least some 15 % of your braking capacity is taken up by that lean angle on a bend so you can no longer use 100%of your brakes as you only have 85% of them left available to you. As a result your braking distance would now be stretched further than the limit point. That distance that you believe to be safe in.
Unfortunately that is a position that many rider get themselves into when leaning over, that unbeknown to them they have already compromise their ability to brake and thus fail to brake successfully within the distance seen to be clear, the distance to their limit point..
@@judgedredd49 I'm well aware of the traction pie or tyre grip trade off. You are making the mistake of assuming I'm riding at a speed that would need anywhere near 100% of my braking to stop by the limit point I'm riding at a speed "to be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear" already taking all the compromises to braking that you have mentioned into account..
How have you mounted your satnav?
Idle curiosity got the better of me 🤔😊
It's the official GPS mount from Triumph for the Gen 2 Explorer 1200. No longer available, but you can find them sometimes on auction sites etc. the part number is A9828022.
0:54 Did anyone noticed the red car on the right?
No, but I noticed the one on the left :) Thanks for watching and commenting (I couldn't resist)
@@mikeroberts😅sure, it's on the left
What is your cruising speed (max), you would ride on these roads? Thx
Not sure what you are asking. The road is an NSL so for bikes the max speed allowed is 60mph. Of course for a lot of it that isn't appropriate (being able to stop safely in the distance you can see to be clear, on your side of the road) but where the view is good and the road opens up, then I'd be achieving that.
@@mikeroberts The reason I ask is because riders like yourself have put a lot of thought in how to ride a motorcycle on UK roads. A lot of this training and guidance comes from the police road Craft.
The police have come up with a method to ride at break neck speed while in pursuit or attending an emergency. I don't ride fast myself as I'm an older rider but I will break ranks here and say sometimes I can go over the speed limit. Obviously I'm the only biker in Britain who admits to this.
The sport bike riders however seem to be going double my speed. Is this road Craft method?
Also what I'm saying if you are keeping within the speed limit, road positioning is not that important as on a modern bike yu can Stop or avoid as you are going slow enough to do anything.
@@booshallmighty Roadcraft applies whatever the speed. We position on the road not only to see ahead but also to be seen (as well as due to surface conditions and other hazards). Road positioning is important whether modern or old bike, slow, legal or well above the posted limit.
Nearly all normal biker techniques you can't do on your CBT/DAS as they considered "Advanced".. like moving out of P2 for bends
It's always worth discussing with your instructor. How much movement from P2 is allowed for the standard ministry test seems to be a bit variable by where you are.