You have a well-argued viewpoint sensibly that is concisely expressed, Mike. The point about the overlap is very valid: as humans if we want to do something to a high standard, we are better off just doing one task at a time. When we begin to do two, or more, things at once we do not perform optimally. For me that is probably the best thing about riding to the System.
Thanks David. The System also gives you so much more time to deal with things if you stick to the order. People say I can't get all that in before the corner. That's the idea ... slow down a bit. You can add the speed afterwards.
Very well put. I'll be editing mine soon which exactly backs this up. Drain off that testosterone and be limited only by your view... Or prove yourself on the track.
Thanks Mike, a very timely video on an important subject. The roads are so full of vehicles and of increasing sizes. Even in the countryside there are more houses and industrial units with entrances straight on to the main roads. Road surfaces are often degraded and driving distractions have increased and driving standards have decreased! The roads are not a race track unless it's the Isle of Man TT.
Very good points about what constrains speed through a bend. Perhaps the topic of braking in a bend, which you mentioned (downhill junction) or steep downhill hairpin type bends, could be a useful future video? Thanks Mike.
Mike ... The video on trail braking was excellent putting the subject into context providing a proper explanation of the benefits and potential pitfalls if used inappropriately your time and effort is appreciated.👍
Excellent video and explanation Mike, when on the track its apex to apex, riding on the limit to gain each tenth of a second over your competitor. On the road, riding to the system, safety is the priority, being able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear on your side of the road,in the correct position, all within the speed limit, at the correct speed, in the correct gear for the bend or hazard, keep up the good work, these are excellent reference video's for associates.
Really well presented Mike... I’ve seen it discussed a lot recently on this side of the pond in recent years... never felt the need for it myself, and as you rightly pointed out, braking during a corner and trail braking are different animals. Have I practised it? Yes, but in the grand scheme of things I’ve not felt the need to use it on my regular rides... it’s a tool to keep in the toolbox for sure... I just haven’t had the reason to use it... if I was track riding then absolutely I’d use it... but riding streets/roads etc... nope, not yet. Cheers Mike Stay well, Steve
This was great, and an incredibly likable presentation! Thanks Mike! I'm going to check out all your other videos now!! I personally still have a snag with this.. and i can summarize it with just four words before corninging... Wait for the Weight... for me personally, i think there's a great deal of cornering-confidence that comes from moving the weight of the bike from back to front in a corner and getting comfortable making that happen and knowing how much front wheel traction 'you have in the bank' when you do get suprised is optimal, again for me, seems like it increases your odds in a surprise situation if i need to counter-steer harder or less to miss an obstacle.. that said... i'm just a noob.. only been riding a year, so this is just a noob opinion. Thanks again for this effort!!
Thanks for another great vid Mike. I have returned to motorcycles after about a 10 year absence, and as I am much older now, I am taking it a lot more seriously. I have followed Back2theBike, Seaflyfisher, Roadcraft Nottingham, to name but a few. All have been invaluable to my return to two wheels. My personnel style of riding is not use the brakes at all! I know it sounds stupid, but its my way of staying within the posted speed limits, and practicing smooth riding. I will definitely take some form of advanced test in the not so distant future. Thanks for the great informative videos, you have a new subscriber.
Welcome onboard. If you are not using the brakes it sounds like you are probably slowing on the gears. Have a look at these two videos that demo getting your slowing done on on the brakes before the corner. ruclips.net/video/lA2n-fT3CBw/видео.html and ruclips.net/video/o8TCSm24Eko/видео.html Get yourself signed up with your local IAM or ROSPA group. I'm sure you'll enjoy it.
@@mikeroberts Thanks for that Mike, just this minute watched the vids. All you above mentioned guys make it look so easy, taking in all the available information, and acting appropriately. I find it quite easy to do on my daily commute road, but if i venture outside my comfort zone, everything goes out the window. Definitely more training needed. Sorry for going off topic. As for trail braking, seems to me that it is only going to benefit track riding/racing.
Thanks for the comment. Well spotted. The downside of of the times I use the fixed camera is that you don't get to see any head movements (that's also its big advantage). This is a nasty little angled crossroads with a narrow bridge (where I cut in). On the approach I get a clear view up the road I am turning into. On this occasion it was clear so the line I took smooths the right turn, reducing the angle, while still allowing a good view up the road I'm entering. If anything is coming I can stop on the road I am on until any vehicle has come over the narrow bridge. Here's the Google Street View link of the approach so you can 'ride' and view it yourself. goo.gl/maps/tx98QRcYD5oo1X4z8
Hi Mike, I'm currently doing my Advanced Rider course with IAM. We've been taught to separate braking & steering by using the system. Many riders that I know and have been through the course, and passed the test have reverted to trail breaking. I'm pretty inexperienced as a rider, but i do have an in-depth background in physics and automotive engineering. Without wanting to be partisan, i have to say that all the physics and engineering principles align with trail breaking - from physicists and engineers the response is always the same; i.e the altered geometry afforded by keeping the forks depressed is *undeniably* a benefit. I am dutifully applying system in my training, it definitely works - that's not in question - but physics _cannot_ lie. I've spent over a year - prior to my IAM training - studying the geometry of cornering on bikes, and without wanting to disparage the IAM, I'm 100% convinced that trail breaking IS the safest way to corner. The IAM is fantastic, but each time i question the instructors/observers i always get the feeling that they _believe_ trail breaking is correct, but they are obliged to defend the IAMs stance. Its all very confusing, if you watch Police Riders, they trail brake, but on Roadsafe courses they caution against it.
Thanks for the comment. You must be watching different police riders to me. If the altered geometry of having the forks loaded is such a great benefit why not just drop the forks a couple of mill through the headstock permanently? Get the bike setup before the corner using System. Drive the bike through the corner at a speed you can stop in the distance ... etc. Why would I want to load the front end into a bend I know nothing about, other than to carry more speed? View and hazards control my speed on the road 99% of the time on the road, not steering geometry changes or my ability to get through a bend.
Just enjoying and learning from watching some of your videos again Mike. On this one on ‘trail braking’, at 3:20 you mention a couple of occasions when it might be necessary to trail brake ie. downhill turn, and a very short slip road off a ‘fast’ carriage way...........so in these circumstances, would you be using the front or rear brake, or both? Or is it one of those ‘it depends’ moments?
Everything is an "It depends" 😀 For the fast slip road I'd be using both brakes. For say a left turn, major to minor, which is down hill, I'd approach using both brakes and then use the back to trail through the turn.
I find it comes in handy when you have an Audi up your chuff as you come into a bend. Having said that, the better option is to regulate speed beforehand to add his diminishing safety buffer on to your own.
Your second option is the much better one. Not letting another vehicle force you into a more dangerous situation (eg entering the corner quicker than you desire AND with a car inches behind).
![Gunna - HIM ALL ALONG [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HiCxoDeo0hc/mqdefault.jpg)
You have a well-argued viewpoint sensibly that is concisely expressed, Mike. The point about the overlap is very valid: as humans if we want to do something to a high standard, we are better off just doing one task at a time. When we begin to do two, or more, things at once we do not perform optimally. For me that is probably the best thing about riding to the System.
Thanks David. The System also gives you so much more time to deal with things if you stick to the order. People say I can't get all that in before the corner. That's the idea ... slow down a bit. You can add the speed afterwards.
Very well put. I'll be editing mine soon which exactly backs this up. Drain off that testosterone and be limited only by your view... Or prove yourself on the track.
Thanks Russ. I look forward to your vid.
Thanks Mike, a very timely video on an important subject.
The roads are so full of vehicles and of increasing sizes.
Even in the countryside there are more houses and industrial units with entrances straight on to the main roads.
Road surfaces are often degraded and driving distractions have increased and driving standards have decreased!
The roads are not a race track unless it's the Isle of Man TT.
Thanks for the supportive feedback
Seems a perfectly well worded explanation of why we should "keep it for the track" in terms of cornering VERY fast.
Thanks for the positive feedback.
Very good points about what constrains speed through a bend. Perhaps the topic of braking in a bend, which you mentioned (downhill junction) or steep downhill hairpin type bends, could be a useful future video?
Thanks Mike.
Thanks Richard. A follow up video is the plan.
Perfect explanation of how this fits with Road Craft. Thanks Mike.
Thanks DervMan. 👍
Mike ... The video on trail braking was excellent putting the subject into context providing a proper explanation of the benefits and potential pitfalls if used inappropriately your time and effort is appreciated.👍
Awesome, thank you!
A clear explanation of the technique Mike, and your view, which I agree with, is well presented
Thanks for the positive feed back.
"Have the skill but use it sparingly" - a perfect summation. Thanks for that video Mike. Top class!
Glad you liked it!
Excellent video and explanation Mike, when on the track its apex to apex, riding on the limit to gain each tenth of a second over your competitor. On the road, riding to the system, safety is the priority, being able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear on your side of the road,in the correct position, all within the speed limit, at the correct speed, in the correct gear for the bend or hazard, keep up the good work, these are excellent reference video's for associates.
Thanks Andy. Much appreciated.
Can't believe how polite your subscribers are! Come over to my channel and read my trail braking comments but bring your flak jacket! 😂
😇😀 I thought it may be a bit more lively here. Maybe once it gets visibility outside my subscribers.
@@mikeroberts nah, you stay here on your safe little fence 😂
Really well presented Mike... I’ve seen it discussed a lot recently on this side of the pond in recent years... never felt the need for it myself, and as you rightly pointed out, braking during a corner and trail braking are different animals.
Have I practised it? Yes, but in the grand scheme of things I’ve not felt the need to use it on my regular rides... it’s a tool to keep in the toolbox for sure... I just haven’t had the reason to use it... if I was track riding then absolutely I’d use it... but riding streets/roads etc... nope, not yet.
Cheers Mike
Stay well,
Steve
Thanks for the positive response.
This was great, and an incredibly likable presentation!
Thanks Mike!
I'm going to check out all your other videos now!!
I personally still have a snag with this..
and i can summarize it with just four words before corninging...
Wait for the Weight...
for me personally, i think there's a great deal of cornering-confidence that comes from moving the weight of the bike from back to front in a corner and getting comfortable making that happen and knowing how much front wheel traction 'you have in the bank' when you do get suprised is optimal, again for me, seems like it increases your odds in a surprise situation if i need to counter-steer harder or less to miss an obstacle.. that said... i'm just a noob.. only been riding a year, so this is just a noob opinion.
Thanks again for this effort!!
Thanks. This ruclips.net/video/lA2n-fT3CBw/видео.html may be a good one to start on, then The System playlist, then the demo rides.
I’m not a noob, and have both track and race school experience. But I agree with Mike’s advice for road riding: “Have the skill but use it sparingly.”
Thanks for another great vid Mike. I have returned to motorcycles after about a 10 year absence, and as I am much older now, I am taking it a lot more seriously. I have followed Back2theBike, Seaflyfisher, Roadcraft Nottingham, to name but a few.
All have been invaluable to my return to two wheels. My personnel style of riding is not use the brakes at all! I know it sounds stupid, but its my way of staying within the posted speed limits, and practicing smooth riding.
I will definitely take some form of advanced test in the not so distant future.
Thanks for the great informative videos, you have a new subscriber.
Welcome onboard. If you are not using the brakes it sounds like you are probably slowing on the gears. Have a look at these two videos that demo getting your slowing done on on the brakes before the corner. ruclips.net/video/lA2n-fT3CBw/видео.html and ruclips.net/video/o8TCSm24Eko/видео.html Get yourself signed up with your local IAM or ROSPA group. I'm sure you'll enjoy it.
@@mikeroberts Thanks for that Mike, just this minute watched the vids. All you above mentioned guys make it look so easy, taking in all the available information, and acting appropriately. I find it quite easy to do on my daily commute road, but if i venture outside my comfort zone, everything goes out the window. Definitely more training needed. Sorry for going off topic. As for trail braking, seems to me that it is only going to benefit track riding/racing.
I'm told it's a good idea, when using engine braking, to touch the brakes just enough to make your brake light come on.
"Have the skill but use it sparingly" - yep, I'll go with that. Thanks for the common sense!
Thanks for the supportive comment.
Adrian Sparrow You don’t have the skill if you don’t practise it. Use it or lose it.
Excellent and sensible explanation Mike, whilst watching though, I couldn't get the distraction of your corner cut at 27 secs out of my head?
Thanks for the comment. Well spotted. The downside of of the times I use the fixed camera is that you don't get to see any head movements (that's also its big advantage). This is a nasty little angled crossroads with a narrow bridge (where I cut in). On the approach I get a clear view up the road I am turning into. On this occasion it was clear so the line I took smooths the right turn, reducing the angle, while still allowing a good view up the road I'm entering. If anything is coming I can stop on the road I am on until any vehicle has come over the narrow bridge. Here's the Google Street View link of the approach so you can 'ride' and view it yourself. goo.gl/maps/tx98QRcYD5oo1X4z8
@@mikeroberts Cheers, Mike, thanks for the link, which helps to understand that particular junction.
Hi Mike,
I'm currently doing my Advanced Rider course with IAM.
We've been taught to separate braking & steering by using the system.
Many riders that I know and have been through the course, and passed the test have reverted to trail breaking.
I'm pretty inexperienced as a rider, but i do have an in-depth background in physics and automotive engineering.
Without wanting to be partisan, i have to say that all the physics and engineering principles align with trail breaking - from physicists and engineers the response is always the same; i.e the altered geometry afforded by keeping the forks depressed is *undeniably* a benefit.
I am dutifully applying system in my training, it definitely works - that's not in question - but physics _cannot_ lie. I've spent over a year - prior to my IAM training - studying the geometry of cornering on bikes, and without wanting to disparage the IAM, I'm 100% convinced that trail breaking IS the safest way to corner.
The IAM is fantastic, but each time i question the instructors/observers i always get the feeling that they _believe_ trail breaking is correct, but they are obliged to defend the IAMs stance.
Its all very confusing, if you watch Police Riders, they trail brake, but on Roadsafe courses they caution against it.
Thanks for the comment. You must be watching different police riders to me. If the altered geometry of having the forks loaded is such a great benefit why not just drop the forks a couple of mill through the headstock permanently? Get the bike setup before the corner using System. Drive the bike through the corner at a speed you can stop in the distance ... etc. Why would I want to load the front end into a bend I know nothing about, other than to carry more speed? View and hazards control my speed on the road 99% of the time on the road, not steering geometry changes or my ability to get through a bend.
That's a very refreshing reply 👍
Hi Mike.
Ahhhhh I knew that was coming ☺️
Enjoyed watching the ride however 👍
Glad you enjoyed it
Just enjoying and learning from watching some of your videos again Mike.
On this one on ‘trail braking’, at 3:20 you mention a couple of occasions when it might be necessary to trail brake ie. downhill turn, and a very short slip road off a ‘fast’ carriage way...........so in these circumstances, would you be using the front or rear brake, or both? Or is it one of those ‘it depends’ moments?
Everything is an "It depends" 😀 For the fast slip road I'd be using both brakes. For say a left turn, major to minor, which is down hill, I'd approach using both brakes and then use the back to trail through the turn.
@@mikeroberts Thanks Mike for the quick reply, much appreciated :-)
Hello Mike
My view is rock on IPSGA
Regards Tony Knowler 🏍️
👍
Nice one Mike. Complements Nottingham Roadcrafts recent film too.
Thanks Neil. Be good to get it shared elsewhere. Mine prompted Russ to get his finished and published. 😉
No, mine compliments his! 😂 😉
I find it comes in handy when you have an Audi up your chuff as you come into a bend. Having said that, the better option is to regulate speed beforehand to add his diminishing safety buffer on to your own.
Your second option is the much better one. Not letting another vehicle force you into a more dangerous situation (eg entering the corner quicker than you desire AND with a car inches behind).
@@mikeroberts yep, forward (rearward) planning, extended braking with a few well timed brake light taps would be more favourable.
@@RoadcraftNottingham Try a few well timed brake light taps in NZ and you'll likely receive a few light taps without the brake lights in return! ;-)
@@Spuggy0453 prove it, send me a video of you warning a tailgater off 😂