Hi John. Here is a story that will amuse you and the viewers. I volunteer to conduct maintenance checks on a small fleet of ambulances in regional WA. Recently we received a brand-new Mercedes sprinter Ambulance. All mod cons including, adaptive cruise, lane assist etc. But no dip sticks to check the engine oil. The first week we had it took a while to commission and long story short the batteries became flat. When I tried to unlock the doors, of course nothing happened. It was then I realised there was no mechanical key which the older vehicle keys have as an option for such eventuality. All ambulances are fitted with an external charger so all we had to do was charge the batteries and all was well. Of course, I would imagine that if you buy the vehicle for other purposes there is no external charging option. What is one supposed to do? you can't get to the engine bay (release is inside the vehicle) and there's no way of opening the doors. I discussed this problem with the local Mercedes dealership service manager, and he said there is no solution that he knows of! Indeed, he asked me how we managed to open the doors. He suggested we keep the window wound down halfway... A vehicle that costs probably around $80,000 and if the battery goes flat no one can unlock it. Now that's what I call money well spent. R
leaving the window down half way is a solution for an old POS with 'trick' doors warped frames and mostly rust and body filler not a supposedly state of the art rescue vehicle and the price is a bit higher than 80k for those ambulances
They call this progress, all the progressives that they know better than everyone else. The Green Marxists . Watermelons 🍉, green on the outside red on the inside .
Excellent advice on identifying the fire exits and getting out. This applies to any building (or aircraft, car etc.). Early in my career (40 years ago) I was forced to become a part-time fire and safety officer at the engineering works and iron foundry who employed me. I was sent on a week's course. The excellent training (from RoSPA - the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents) has left me with a lifetime routine of identifying the emergency exits wherever I go. At worst this is a harmless habit but at best it could save my life.
Yes, I’ve attended various fire safety courses in my career. The first thing they recommended, like you, is scouting out the building’s fire exit. Secondly one advised keeping valuable and essential items, wallet, passport, keys etc in a small grab bag available as you flee.
One thing I do when seated on a plane is count how many rows of seats I will have to climb over to get to an exit. When it's dark, and I need to get out as quickly as possible, I will not be attempting to join a disorderly queue in the aisle.
When booking your seat on a flight make sure your seat is 7 or less rows from the emergency exit Beyond that ONLY getting into the emergency position and kissing you A...ss good bye is of any worth
@@daviddaw999unfortunately your strategy is likely to kill you. The extra effort in climbing seats will cause you to suffer more seriously from smoke inhalation. Then you'll probably create aggression at the exit if you get there, killing more people. Better to get out slowly and live than rush to your death. Get down and follow the lights.
The fire resulted in £20 million of improvements to Luton Airport. Anyone who regularly visits Luton will be devastated to know that it didn't spread to the town.
What I particularly loved was the way the concrete hadn't even cooled down before they were blaming 'Diesel' for the fire. Never in all the long history of the Fire Service was an investigation carried out and wrapped up so quickly . . . "Nothing to see here, move along, please!"
Whoever thinks this was a diesel ⛽ car fire 🔥 is absolutely crazy 😂 The fact that the press and a 🚒 firefighter was so quick to jump to conclusions and state that it was a "Diesel' before any searches of wreckages and reports were even attempted should ring alarm bells 🔔 The fact that the owner of that so-called single vehicle in flames has not come forward. The fact that the person videoing that lone vehicle has not come forward or been named...or even why they happened to be casually filming at the time...and not bothering calling 999. The fact that a second video of the same car filmed from the front just happened to turn up online days later...🙄 The fact that it hasn't even been established that this was filmed at the Luton car park... The fact that no actual proof of anything so far. The fact that this single vehicle caused the collapse of a whole level of car park on top of another... It's all far too suspect...and definitely a cover up.
@@lillie13ify Where is the actual proof that this vehicle was the 'start' of the blaze...where is the proof that it was actually taken in that car park ...where is the time-stamp showing the actual time of recording the video (to match with time if car park fire)...where is the owner of that particular vehicle...who was it that hung around videoing that particular vehicle...why would that same person inside a carp park, walk past the blazing car to casually film the front of the vehicle...then wait several days to release footage of the second video? I say that it is all bullshit and an obvious cover up.
I expect it was an EV hybrid simply because of the obvious MSM blackout. If it WAS a pure diesel I would bet my house they would be shouting it from the rooftops. BTW I live in England, the EV greenwashing is in full on mode here, same with heat pumps, solar, turbines and all the rest, even though we contribute less than 1% towards global emissions.
I worked in the FRS in the UK for over 30 years. The use of the word "believe" is a breathing space so that the Service can position itself in the best part of the final truth. When this changes is when there is loss of life. Senior Managers do not want to "believe" because that has so many more serious implications for them if they appear to have misled the Coroner and or the public. In those cases they always say "cause under investigation". I can't remember being involved in a diesel fire that wasn't malicious in nature, as a result of a high impact or, and rarely, and electrical issue. Hell I am struggling to remember such fires. Lorries that are the main users of diesel on our motorways typically have brake fires that set fire to frozen fish fingers in the back and the Fire-fighters spend their time slipping around on un-ignited diesel. They will do anything to save fish fingers.
I'm in very rural Northern BC Canada. I have seen plenty of diesel powered vehicles burn over the years. Here are some common denominators. The fires were started initially by; (1) Electrical failure resulting in plastics beginning to burn (as you mentioned) (2) Failure of the turbo at load. This isn't a situation where the vehicle was idling or cruising through a parkade with a low EGT. It was a situation where loaded commercial vehicle are climbing steep hills. (3) Some sort of oil line or oil cooler failure, again, with that vehicle under load and the oil ignited by some source of heat... like a turbo. I am particularly familiar with one circumstance where my own Ram 3500 diesel burned on the side of the highway one evening. It had taken damage to the grill and an engine or transmission cooler by a large rock from a passing vehicle. Approximately 2 hours of highway driving later after several stops to check for leaks, I believe the oil cooler failed and the oil was likely ignited by the hot turbocharger of my Cummins Diesel engine. My fire extinguisher did not have enough capacity to extinguish the fire. Here's the important part. After roughly half an hour of burning, the diesel fuel tank began to melt (Plastic Poly of some sort) and leak. It did not explode. The diesel ignited under the vehicle, on the ground, in a pool and that pool slowly and lazily burned as it migrated away from the vehicle and extinguished itself roughly 3 meters from the burning vehicle. This was clearly visible from my vantage point 50 meters away. Trust me, that was close enough given the explosions from the inflated tires as they burned and failed. I see a fire external to the engine compartment. Vehicle lights still on meaning the 12 volt system is not affected. Doors closed, so not an interior fire. A very hot fire nowhere near a fuel tank location. A vehicle operating at next to zero load so don't talk about a regen canister blow-out. A fire that just happens to be in the same location as this model hybrid's battery location. In this Luton case, there is no pool of lazily burning diesel on the ground. This fire is unrelated to whatever petroleum product may be in the vehicle. Being as the flames are acting in a manner that they are being propelled, like a burning battery does in thermal runaway, there is absolutely no reason to "believe" this is a diesel related fire. I guess we will have to wait and listen to what the media is told to say. As of this writing, I call bullshit on non-EV related.
@@danharasty6686 So far, that's the only person nobody is allowed to talk to. Besides, If I owned that car, I'd slide off into the night and wait for someone to phone me. Then I'd claim someone stole it.
Exactly; This fire in Luton,,, was almost 100% NOT caused by diesel...... Certainly not alone. Look at the photo/video: Fire is to the front and left of the car. And burning violently.....yet the lights are still on, on that vehicle...... It's a sham and /(as an ex Fireman from the UK) I am ashamed that a so called Senior Fire Officer can STATE as he did.... "The fire originated in a diesel Range Rover". Bull Sh#T of the highest order. Than man must be reprimanded at the very least: You do not give such opinions within minutes of arriving at the scene. You wait for the full investigation. He's obviously a puppet of the Government....or at least his HQ are.
You do not make sense to me. What was burning? There would only be a minority of electric cars there. If it was a deisel hybred they are the most likely to catch fire, followed by ICE and then electric. The whole car park burnt down and the fuel played a part
Absolutely bloody brilliant. You're a hell of a writer, and clearly stuffed full of common sense, knowledge, and pragmatism. Thank you for your insightful and hilarious commentary. I was driving on the M25 when this was happening. I had never before seen a sign on the gantry saying that Luton was closed. I knew something serious must be going on. My first thought was terrorist attack. As I was driving, I couldn't look it up. Come to find out, it's a damn Range Rover that's exploded!
I was over in the West Midlands (M54) when I saw a sign about it. At least Luton is fairly close to the M25! I had the same thoughts - terrorism, but also airliner crash and (cynical third thought) maybe an EV fire. Also knew that The Authorities would have issued endless obfuscating denials if it had been the third option. As JC pointed out, words like 'believe' don't belong in objective reporting.
Glad to see SOMEBODY else noticing this. The fire is clearly at it's most intense at the left side of the vehicle. Even if we assume ANYTHING else started the fire (DPF, starter motor, evil pixies), there's clearly something under the left side of the vehicle that's much more flammable than the rest of the vehicle. I wonder what that could be???
That is where the DPF is positioned on that car..... it's a 2014 Range Rover Sport 3.0L diesel, and is registered as such, check the reg number to obtain the details E10EFL
@@mikehunt8968 And that reg nr was at another place..NOT AT LUTON AIRPORT!!!!. Please dont talk to your mother when watching these kind of videos.. Or stay with cartoons..
A couple of things here, The car pictured as the cause of the Luton fire is said to be an Evoque but if you focus on the tail lights they are far more like the Landrover Sport from 2021/22. The Evoque's are a much narrower double red tail light and the 2023 Sport looks similar. If it is a Sport it is more likely to be a hybrid model as the fire was in Britain. Another strange thing happened in Scotland a day ago because a news report flashed up on some peoples phones of a car on fire in a Glasgow sub floor carpark and it was reported to be an EV and the video clip with it looked like an EV fire but as quickly as the news broke it disappeared and no mention of it could be found anywhere. Spooky
Apart from the bit where he said 'literally all the information on these vehicles has the battery on the left'. The workshop manual has it on the right. The fire rescue App has it on the right. NCAP in their crash reports has it on the right. In fact everywhere I've looked, as a mechanic myself has it on the right. He's just googled the first marketing image he could find and ran with it. What a muppet. As a so called auto 'expert' I thought he would have checked with the manual or some technical resource. Maybe, just maybe, he's not an 'auto expert' after all and he's just another RUclipsr that's slave to clickbait.
@@davep3969 Not to mention that he literally has no idea and it's all conjecture. The number plate has been traced back to a 2014 Range Rover sport diesel V6 - not a hybrid.
I worked on mercedes vehicles for all of my career. And diesel fuel leaks were as common as folks drinking coffee in the morning. And in all those years and all those leaks, i never saw or heard of a fire caused by those diesel leaks. Diesel just takes waaay to much to catch fire. Soooo, my honest opinion is that this fure was not caused by a diesel leak.
I don't think anyone said that. Just that the vehicle that initially caught fire was diesel powered. The idea that only EV's catch fire is nonsense. Once a fire has started in a car park like that it is always going to be a sh*t show, regardless of the fuel type being used by the vehicles.
Diesel vehicle fires are common, but it is the effect of heat, vibration or chemically degrading the vehicle components that tends to initiate the fires. In this hybrid it may be the lithium battery that was the major accelerant, but initial ignition point may still have been due to the use of a deisel engine.
As the son of a professional truck driver and former "armed gas station attendant" (Mitltary fuel truck driver) as my mom would sometimes teasingly call him, I can tell you that diesel does take some effort to get going. Take that for what it is.
"Diesel does take some time to get going." This is exactly why most, if not all, schools got rid of their gasoline powered school busses after the Carrolton Bus Crash.
Our medias take on this event has been of the "nothing to see here, move along" genre. The fact they rushed to exonerate EV involvement just proved it was an EV. We're not all that stupid. Great analysis and conclusion. 👏🏻👏🏻
Exactly nothing to see here, it's just DIESEL Range Rover Sport L494 on fire. The FRONT LEFT is the CATALYTIC CONVERTER, there should be no reason why the area around a CATALYTIC CONVERTER could catch on fire. (sarcasm if you didn't get it) The media just wants to BLAME Electric Vehicles and ignore the mechanical facts.
FYI The EV Charging Stations are in Terminal Car Park 1 ONE. This building that burnt down is Terminal Car Park 2 TWO. Nothing to see here, move along. Just ignore the facts.
My my. Imagine all those years of no Airport multi storey car park fires, with all those diesel cars parked over the decades. We should count ourselves so lucky to have survived 🙄.
It seems so but it’s not confirmed yet. Nor is that number plate that people have been throwing around. Until I see a picture myself showing the number plate, it is just a random number plate someone has found.
Regarding diesel and matches, on a ramp in Detroit MI as an aircraft mechanic, the airplane that I was on was being fueled and the shutoff malfunctioned sending jet fuel out the wingtips causing a lake of jet fuel probably 30 feet in diameter and was pooling. A “safety” truck pulled onto the scene and drove right through the middle of his fuel spill and it did nothing. No ignition, no fire, no explosion, absolutely nothing and it was about 70 degrees or so out side as we scrambled to prevent the fuel from getting into the drains.
Owning an EV here in the UK will soon be near impossible, as insurance companies are really jacking up the prices by silly amounts and some no longer insuring EVs. Just waiting for the insurance companies to stop home insurance if you park an EV within a certain distance of your house.
All insurance is going up in the UK, not just EV's. My insurance on my EV went up from £300 to £450 so a massive jump. I think it's more to do with how new cars are made and how difficult they are to repair. Maybe there will be a "right to repair" movement soon like they are doing with electronic devices such as phones to allow for easier repairs. Take a look at the Rivian dent removal that a guy was quoted $41k for. Nothing to do with it being an EV, just trying to repair a dent.
Probably they'll ask if any EVs are parked near your home, like they ask about trees within a certain distance. I get a discount for parking my ICE car off road, I can imagine soon it will be a surcharge if you have an EV off road or in a garage, providing you can find someone to insure it!
Picked up a single motor tesla to save on petrol. My insurance is twice as much as I paid for a heavily modified supercharged 4.5L Cayenne Turbos S that was way faster and I had all the modifications declared. Makes 0 sense.
Geoff buys cars did an update on this fire and it was an hybrid/diesel RR according to his information. It won't be the legislators that put an end to this madness, it will be the insurance companies. They don't make money paying out claims and a public liability claim on a 20 mill carpark full of cars is not what they want.
I live down the road from Luton, info on the vehicle 😉 These have been recalled for the same reason it caught fire. - Range Rover Hybrid Power: New family of 3.0-litre straight-six Ingenium diesel engines features 48V Mild Hybrid Electric Vehicle (MHEV) technology and joins Plug-In Hybrid.
In the UK, because of the fires when the car is charging on the owners property, some cars have gone on fire and caused significant damage to their property,thus Insurance companies are either refusing to insure the property or loading the premium, I've also heard the insurers ask if your next door neighbour have a EV charger,even if you don't
I was watching the BBC news channel the morning following the fire; their reporter on the ground said at 07:15, the fire was "believed to be started by a vehicle, an electric vehicle." This was the one and only time the reporter said those words. All reports after that point didn't mention the vehicle until other sources started banging the Diesel drum. I suspect the initial report was correct, that the vehicle was indeed a hybrid Diesel vehicle, and judging by the photos showing the fire position and lack of black smoke, I'm inclined to trust in your assessment John.
Even if it was a hybrid, Evoque hybrids are MHEVs with tiny batteries, 0.2 kwh. And they don’t burn easily or for no reason either. Black smoke/white smoke? Ever seen jet aircraft displaying and trailing white smoke? Diesel fuel being injected into the exhaust. White smoke.
There are lots of Americans here who would tell the reporter firmly something they had no actual knowledge of. Subsequent reports after people who actually look at events in Luton sre more likely to be correct. Those which involve looking up the actual vehicle even more so. Perhaps the driver will pop up in due course, although he may bd keeping his head down.
The carpark design is like a IKEA flat pack carpark design made to be easily assembled and quickly built and cheap to produce. Structurally, it's a steel girder frame with metal platforms covered in a tarmac style coating. Scary thought is a lot of these new build carparks are seen across the UK at train stations, town centres and some large supermarkets. A lot of the older carparks in the UK have actually got some form of sprinkler system fitted and are built of concrete.
You have highlighted my thoughts about this incident. As you pointed out, not the only one. The media here in the UK has been desperate to avoid the thought that the vehicle contained a traction battery. Even the fire service were a bit too fast in saying it was a diesel vehicle. Way before any investigation had taken place. Whatever the cause, these car parks with no sprinkler system are potentially lethal in any fire, and your advice to be aware and make plans for if the worst should happen, is great advice.
The airport carpark is smothered in CCTV, there's absolutely no way they wouldn't have the number plate of the vehicle that started the fire and therefore be able to identify its fuel type within a couple of minutes.
@@Trevor_Austin that's a strange statement. Nobody said they would. Sprinkler systems will help contain a fire to a much smaller area, they also often give people adequate time to escape before conditions are unsurvivable or lead to a collapse. And that's before we talk about how 90% of cars in most car parks are still ICE. It's about REDUCING RISK, not having the ultimate solution to everything.
So deliciously eloquent! Not sure if you'll also note that the Rover was still in the drive lane, it wasn't parked. They did concede that several EVs burst into flames. I believe they said sprinklers should be installed in all multi storey car parks - but, would it really help in such a situation.
Your analysis of the fire (around time mark 7m30s and after) is quite correct IMO. Corroborating: the color (NA; colour elsewhere) of the fire under the vehicle, consistent with an oxygen-rich (= injected) combustion, around or above 1200C (2200F, 1500K). The explosion front (around 9m10s) is also very white. And if what we see there is a deflagration that destroys the floor under the car - there is no chance that a relatively slow petrol/diesel atmospheric burn could do this, both energetically and directionally..
no chance... mate, strong winds, heat, you must win lotto everytime you buy a ticket hey.... pfft. Could have been a case where someones fueld up a diesel vehicle with petrol for example, overheats, runs away. etc. its a guessing game based on the pics we all have.
This is the best discussion of this matter I have seen. Controlling the talk to control reality never works because a head in the sand approach dulls the urgency in identifying and resolving problems. People hate being blamed. Building codes definitely need a review - cars are changing, fire load due to plastics increased, DPF and other technical developments, sprinklers not mandatory in the existing car parks and probably not new ones.
Why would multiple firefighters lie? How big is the conspiracy to cover it up? Again why would firefighter's lie? Are firefighters known to love electric cars? I don't think so. I think they would love to say it was an EV.
I agree fire fighters are unlikely to lie, it is unlikely there is a conspiracy to cover things up. I agree given the difficulty extinguishing EV fires fire fighters would probably like to have an EV fire to highlight their concerns. The issue is not at that level. It is far more subtle. The problem is ‘mal- information’ which is information that is true but nudges public opinion the ‘wrong way’ - call it negative publicity for a worthy cause. You may not agree but I see increasing pressure on media and everyday discussion to not point out anything negative on certain topics where it is considered important to get all the fish swimming in the same direction. I think people sense this and the result is that people begin to feel patronized and mistrustful this is a perfectly normal reaction. We naturally sense when other people walk on eggshells or are guarding the interests of say a friend. The best way to inspire trust is to allow the details to be published and have an open discussion rather than labelling people or content to stop further discussion. I am not pro ICE or EV. I think both are I incredible human creations. We do however need to appreciate the changing risk profiles of technological change which is increasingly rapid compared with traditional management based on steady state conditions.
@@BertWald-wp9pz I see a concerted effort to put fake EV fires all over the internet. And it is not just firefighters. Police and private security would have to be involved. They saw the video before the fire started including when the vehicle entered. Anybody who they spoke to before the word got out that we were going to make this look like it was not an EV fire would have to be silenced. The owner of the vehicle and anybody he told that was my car would have to be silenced to make it seem this was a deisel fire. Somebody would sell them out by now.
To me this seems like the perfect opportunity for insurance companies to hike insurance premiums for all cars, or not being able to insure your car/house at all. Another step towards the goals of no private ownership of cars/houses and no flights to holidays abroad.
@@charliepapa6848 I just renewed my insurance on my van which is used for work and personal use , i've had an increase of nearly £600 , they was quoting £800 increase at first which was nearly double
you are 100% correct on diesel characteristics, I was trying to get rid of some small tree stumps last year, and after hacking, I tried burning them. I only had gasoline and diesel available and I wanted a slow burn, not an explosion so the diesel was my choice. Small butane lighters would not start the fuel, so I finally got the diesel burning with a propane torch. Lots of black smoke too. Thank you for your insights.
There is a lack of understanding of the difference between the flashpoint and the autoignition temperature of petrol and diesel. On a hot surface it is diesel that will ignite at a lower temperature. Petrol is likely to evaporate before ignition and would then require a spark or flame to ignite.
@@carrollsanders9376A NEW SCAM BY ` ANTI-EV CHANNELS ` IS REPORTING YOUR COMMENTS AS FRAUDUALANT, SPAM, DECEPTIVE - TO CREATE A STRIKE ON YOUR CHANNEL - TO SHUT YOU DOWN....
There are many apartment building car parks that are not adequately fire rated and could lead to the building being rendered uninhabitable in the event of a fire like this.
The fire requirements was taken from the fire service many years ago and given totally to building control ,hence the truly lack of expertise in requirements 🤔
There are a few carparks in Sydney that give preferential parking to EV's on the ground floor. A standard fire suppression system may mitigate damage but not put out the fire, esp. if all the EV's are in a row.
yea.... i might have constructed one of those last week... we do have sprinter and air lock to the building (as per law of cause). I didn´t do the fire calculation, but the building suppose to be evacuated if there is a large fire. And that should really not be a problem. A full high pressure sprinter system is (at least here) by law required for any full indoor parking. That SHOULD suppress the fire sufficiently so it should not spreed.... ... Should... it might not. This really needs to be tested. I honestly don´t think the people in the building i make is at risk (i didn´t make the fire safety system, just the general construction). The question really is the damage to the building, and if people get sick from the smoke. and.. well the material value. Is insurance premium going to go up for homes due to cars? That is kind of unfair that everyone that don´t have a EV have to pay for them
JC, forgot to mention about the seat belt, you would be surprised how many people do not think in situations just like these, and are stuck to their seats, wasting many seconds in ratifying the problem of them getting out of a burning car, tragic.
A pilot friend of mine bought a Range Rover few years ago. The PD wasn't done properly. The inlet line from the fuel tank into the HPFP came off, while he was driving to work. The car went into limp and died on the side of the motorway. Diesel from the fuel tank got depleted into the engine bay. The dang thing still did not catch fire. The Luton fire doesn't add up.
Rumers are starting to evolve from some whistle blowers to say a business man late for a flight drove into the car park realised his car was on fire handed his keys for the car to the reception and ran off to catch his flight. The car was a hybrid, by the time the airport realised it was on fire the fire was out of control. There seems some controversy about the reg. plate as the rear plate is different. That is why the Police have arrested someone.
The reason diesel (and not gasoline) is used in boats (of all sizes) is it is very hard to ignite (boats being no place to escape from in case of a fire). If you ever see a boat on fire, it is because it is one of the few with a gasoline engine.
@AlanWilliams-su4bs If you are asking whether a boat with a diesel engine & tank can burn, yes, of course it can, depending upon the hull material and other factors but it is an extremely rare event, compared to fires on gasoline powered boats. This has long been recognized in insurance rates for boats.
My father was a diesel/hgv mechanic and I grew up with diesels. I never witnessed any sudden combustion or fires. The quality of wiring in petrol cars, it the 1.0l ecoboost ford as an example and the deployment of electrical powered vehicles has been the commonality of these events. Range rover is known for poor electrics in their vehicles, just ask any recovery driver or mechanic. The fire service was towing the eco mob line pdq rather than getting on with investigating the cause. As with many other countries infested by the "green doctrines" our politically correct services are blowing with the wind. Thanks for debunking the hyperbole John.
@@RichardFraser-y9t How did the fire manifest itself? Explosively or as a steady fire? I think that's the point being made. As others have said, diesel fires do not seem to fit the profile of this fire. I'm not an expert on fire but my very limited experience of fossil fel fires is that diesel simply does not "blow up" the way petrol does and the way I know lithium ion batteries do. Lookign at the aviation world, they have had quite a few lithium ion batetry incidents which have been sudden, explosive and very difficult to contain. This is an interesting little clip from ABC News Australia: www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=ev+catching+fire#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:a6c84487,vid:NWvI1daNils,st:0
I love your attitude and carefully crafted sarcastic and entertaining approach to the BS we all have to navigate through in our lives. Keep it coming 😂
Hi John , many years ago driving north up here in the sunshine state I was stopped by a Policeman in Rockhampton, was told a Semi was on fire just up the highway , road closed , the next morning stopped at the burnt out semi , had been loaded with hairspray tarp covered , driver smoking , flicked a smoke out of the window onto the tarp causing the fire , apparently a marvellous fire show following as the spray cans exploded , when I arrived all out , the heat generated actually melted parts of the vehicle , trailer, and prime-mover there was diesel dripping from the step tanks had not caught fire . Old jc
I had to burn off red diesel ( big spillage on a motorway construction site in 1972 ) , the various matches went out ( with a puff of white smoke ) , I had to load an old T shirt with diesel set it on fire and slowly place it on the pool of diesel , but eventually it burnt with LOTS of black smoke , This was a battery fire , for sure , you are right ! ... DAVE™🛑
Good advice, great video. Back in 1975 my Austin Maxi caught fire whilst parked in a pub car park (where else!). On rushing out I found the inside full of smoke but could see the fire was coming from the steering column (ignition switch?) and after a few dramas with the pub's fire extinguisher got fire out. What was interesting was that all the lights were on and the horn was continuously sounding. It turned out it was an electrical fault.
In my time as a bus driver I’ve known of several bus fires where none of which were caused by the fuel, being CNG or diesel. In all cases it was a coolant circuit leak dripping onto hot exhaust components causing the hydrocarbons in the coolant to burst into flame! Scary shit indeed.
Interesting you mention coolant fire, i had fire on an 800ton mining excavator (yes 800 TONS). Just prior to the fire i could smell strong smell of hot coolant. Went down to the engine bays to investigate (twin engine) and found a blue purple flame burning in the v of the engine, right below a turbocharger. Coolant line on turbo had failed and the vapours from coolant had ignited. Was able to put it out with an extinguisher, and the mechanics argied that i only had a coolant leak and it could never had a fire. Next day it happened again. On investigation it was determined that the glycol in coolant, the vapours could ignite when super heated (coolant fitting spraying coolant in a mist under pressure over the turbo)
@@HighTowerAU yep, I’ve seen the same colour fire on a CNG bus before it burned to a crisp. The bus in question was found to have had a coolant line failure which ignited on the hot exhaust, caught the fibreglass body panels and raced away uncontrollably. When the fire got into the roof the gas cylinders started venting via a safety pressure release and gouts of burning gas shot out thirty feet long!
This video raises a whole new set of thought processes in my mind. Thank you so much for this content, I have not seen anything so well structured about this subject. I live close to Liverpool and I had not realised the implications of the fire in the car park there. Unfortunately, the uk government are not too good at learning lessons, for example, the Grenfell Tower fire.
Brilliant presentation. We are now being lied to even about car fires that need to be exposed so we are aware of how to reduce the overall damage. To people and property. Good advice given.
Maybe an after effect of the Grenfell fire which is costing property developers and flat-owners so much £££ (it should be just the property magnates paying as their design error just like the error in no sprinklers at luton, but not in this world)
The Landrover SE Luton, in Flame Red metallic, furnace orange leather interior. Options included cold weather external feet warmers, an explosive drop down escape function (for quick exit from car parks) and a self disposal function when you complete a journey. 😄
I am a retired electrical engineer, and I love your sense of humor. Every point you make is true. The customers always try to cut corners. I once built a 2 million BTU tank heater. When I pointed out that they needed a level switch for the tank they declined the extra 2563 dollars. Guess what three days after signing off on the job. Some moron forgot to check the tank. It melted in around 6 mins. So back we came as they paid us to remove the wreckage. And replace the burners, tank, and add a level switch. They will not change anything till lots of people die.
Excellent analysis. Regarding sprinklers, they are installed in underground car parks but never to open , above ground facilities. It's about saving lives so to remove smoke to assist in people finding exits to the location before suffocating & not saving cars. After all, cars are insured. No firefighter in modern times will risk even a minor cut to stop a property fire. They are issued with large bags of popcorn & dvd players in the trucks while they wait for the fire to burn out
Spot on with your analysis there, in fact an eye witness that appeared on British TV shortly after the fire said he'd seen a "JET" of flame emitting from the vehicle which set fire to neighbouring vehicles. Needless to say his testimony has never been aired since to my knowledge. This stinks of EV technology. The raft of insurance claims and counter claims is likely to drag on for years.
@@PowerOn- The cause is irrelevant the fire loading due to the presence of EV's which burn at 2500 degrees C would be the cause of collapse. Such high temp would cause the concrete to fail and the steel re-enforcement to expand, a common cause of collapse. This will happen again, You cannot have a chemical incident occurring on this regular basis
Another factor (not related specifically to EVs) that has been identified in previous multi-storey car park fires is the increasing numbers of very large vehicles especially SUVs. The problem here is not just their weight, but the large amount of fuel and combustibles they contain. When many of these car parks were designed, cars were much smaller and lighter, the flammable load was much lower. They were never designed to cope with the fire risk we have now. This was becoming a problem before EVs, but EVs can only make it much worse.
A big issue in a previous car park fire in Liverpool in 2018, which was started by a 15-year-old Range Rover (when are we going to ban these?), is that modern car parks are designed to allow good drainage. Standing water is bad for safety, both car stopping time and that of peds. The floors are therefore slightly tilted and drainage channels take water away. All good in theory but once you have a multiple vehicle fire and burning fuel runs down the surfaces and drains and spreads to other vehicles and into the drain. The petrol/diesel tanks on modern vehicles are usually plastic and only need to sustain flame for 2 minutes before failure to meet regulations, so it doesn't take much to set the next car alight. It was noted a particular issue was most of the drainage system was PVC piping which quickly gave way under fire conditions as well, so the burning fuel going down the drain spreads to other floors that way. Older garages tended to use iron/steel piping which survives much longer. In the Liverpool fire, 1500 cars were destroyed.
@@blaylum His explanation was spot on. Take a 1000 Ford Focus in a car park. Total weight is 1400 metric tonnes. Now 1000 EV6. Total 2200. So an extra 800 metric tonnes. You still happy that a 20 year carpark is able to handle the extra weight of the new large EV,s and SUV,s?
I think (rather like the lab leak theory) when authorities are overly anxious to impose a narrative & suppress obvious questions, then you have to be suspicious. If the exact make a model of a car which has caused a fire remains mysterious, & is not immediately clarified then you've got to ask why? Transparency in a democracy should be the default - when it's not, it's time to get curious.
When the news broke of this fire and the message was over the top to say its a diesel a few colleagues and myself surmised it was more than likely a diesel hybrid that went up. When I saw the tail lights you showed I immediately thought it was a Range Rover Sport as they did do a diesel hybrid but was unaware of a diesel Evoque hybrid at the age of that tail light design.
The problem with EV's isn't necessarily their risk of catching fire, although that may be an issue in the future, it's the way they burn. The intense flame jet that comes from the battery once burning, greatly increases fire spread, which is particularly an issue when many of them are parked closely to each other, especially when in a roofed enclosure like a multistorey carpark. Factor in that EV's are also particularly large, means their total fire loading is also much more.
And that is worse than the plastic fuel tank rupturing and spreading burning liquids everywhere? Fires in car parks that are full are always going to be sh*t shows regardless of the fuel type of the vehicles.
@jonathanbuzzard1376 where did I say it was worse, you're arguing a claim I haven't made? But now you mention it, at least a running fuel fire can be extinguished with foan, a runaway EVB fire cannot be extinguished with standard fireground media.
@@jonathanbuzzard1376BS. EVs are rolling bombs. They will randomly combust or explode. It's not a question of if, just when. Cars, scooters, bikes - doesn't matter. Same for those crap smartphones, and anything else powered by Lithium batteries.
@@wombatdk ICE cars will randomly combust too. I am happy to admit that the data suggests the rate is higher in EV's than ICE (it's not orders of magnitude higher either) but to suggest that it is zero in ICE vehicles is complete nonsense.
@@wombatdk So how about the newer LFP batteries, now being used in some makes of EV? These batteries have zero thermal runaway characteristics. The manufacturers have tested them by driving steel spikes through them.
One question - firefighters around the world have countless decades of controlling and extinguishing vehicle fires, they do it every day, they have the experience, the equipment and the techniques to do so. Why then could they not extinguish a 'diesel fire'? It's impossible to accept that with 15 fire trucks and over 100 firefighters they were all standing around with their finger up their rear ends wondering why this fire could not be dealt with - Quite the opposite, I am certain they were doing ALL they could possibily do. Along with the pile of burnt out cars there is also a massive pile of BS to be cleared up.
Hi John I live about 30 miles from Luton Airport and what we are hearing from friends who live close by it turns out they are reporting white grey ish smoke coming from the car park so I think you are right m8 it must have been a hybrid or pure electric car all the best John
John Cadogan's analysis of the situation is very well considered. I am persuaded that the balance of probabilities, indicates that the battery suffered a thermal runaway, just as the car was being parked. The owner hadn't even got as far as switching the lights off. The absence of black smoke discounts uncontrolled combustion of diesel fuel. A Li-ion battery contains enough oxidant to support a furious rate of combustion.
Even if it’s a hybrid, Evoque’s are MHEVs with tiny batteries - 0.2kwh. They’ll burn if you get them hot enough, just like diesel will. And as for the black smoke, have you seen the Red Arrows? Know how they generate their smoke trails? By spraying diesel fuel into their exhaust. That’s white smoke by the way, so just perhaps that white smoke was unburnt diesel fuel hitting a hot surface - on its way to burning, of course.
John, that car park was built from new as part of the airport expansion project. I even did some electrical testing at the site office during its construction. Yes, how can you believe that no fire suppression system was included? Well as usual,done on the cheap at a mere 20 million bucks! Looks like another twin town with shitsville. I'm just watching your fantastic video having been working at Lu ' ton today and that's how I'm going to spell it and pronounce it from now on. Just beautiful mate. It sounds so exotic 😂
Ha ha yeah. I grew up in Luton many years ago before it was trashed and was quite tickled by his new frenchy play on the name. 🤣 I’m appalled at what happened at the airport though and loved this explanation. It really does seem like a cover up of the events from what I hear.
I was a fuel engineer for the UK MOD I've demonstrated how difficult it is to ignite diesel. Then when you can ignite it you get a yellow flame and impenetrably thick smoke.
Friend of mine suffered a moving car fire - fortunately he saw the smoke/flames in the rear view mirror (mid-engine car), told the passenger to "take his seat belt off, and unlock the door. Then when he stopped the car, bail out and run, don't look back until you're well clear". They both survived, likely due to his cool headedness under pressure - the car not so much!
From what I heard from another YTer it was labeled as "an EV fire burned down a car park" in the early hours of it happening and only changed to "a diesel fire" a few hours later. He was pretty radical then saying EV sells are now dead in the UK. And people aren't stupid, even if a diesel started it, the presence of EVs made it thousand times worse.The starting point doesn't matters that much than what helped it become uncontrolable. It's like with furnitures and ornament in hotels, ships, planes,... they aren't easily flammable nowaday because you don't want places were people are packed to become deathtraps in seconds. LPG car owners face restrictions when parking in car parks for a reason, and I won't be surprise if EVs faces some restriction of thi nature in the future.
From an antidepressant to the best battery ever to a pyro's dream... It's been nice getting to know the third lightest element but I kind of hope we run out or move on before it gets spread over us like peanut butter.
Would not normally watch a 27mim video unless it was about wildlife, but this was an exception, loved the technical and fact along with the humour and the scathing sarcasm aimed at the bureaucrats. Keep up the sterling work, retired UK firefighter 🚒
John, great video. This was also covered by "geoff buys cars" and he did the forensics on the car rear lights and concludes it is a RR Sport diesel hybrid and as the fire is coming from left lower rear wheel arch supports this as this is where RR puts the battery. He also noted that RR Evoque have a track record of self igniting (diesel). which still happens on new cars despite a recall. It appears it is to do with the dpf filter regenerating and setting the engine bay on fire. He also showed a Tesla dealership in France , which has quickly removed from the person who posted (probably told too by Electric Jesus) and I counted at least 10 model 3 wiped out to a skeletons. No ICE cars in sight , which is annoying as they can't be blamed and the building looked fully intact. Luton and "Lie" just match perfectly. It was news to me that Evoques and other Range Rovers have a fire issue, turning into the Ford f150 issue in the 80's. Not a Range Rover fan (or JLR) but they still sell well here in the UK, not sure were the money comes from as they expensive.
The Tesla site (in Frankfurt Germany) was arson. If somebody tells you it's in France you're not going to find much when you Google. The red 2014 Range Rover Sport (non hybrid) diesel E10 EFL (video of the front of the car is available) that started it all had 84,000 miles and passed it's most recent MOT.
In Britain it is common for people to buy an 'old' registration number and put them on their car because the old reg contains their initials or attempts to spell their name. (yawn...)
@@hunchanchoc8418 and in Britain if you have the reg number you can look up whether the car has an MOT, whether it's taxed etc and what make and model it is. If you pay you can get mileage and any MOT advisories over the years. E10 EFL is a red 2014 Range Rover Sport 3.0 diesel (non hybrid) with 84,000 miles at it's last MOT.
I was watching this on my phone while waiting in my car for my wife to buy another special handbag at a very large shopping centre today. I was parked on the lower level of a 2 storey under ground car park which is under the multistorey shopping complex. Started taking note of the single exit that went through the upper level carpark and the type of cars parked around me. Its hard to tell which ones are hybrids etc. but I could see at least 3 Teslas from where I was sitting. And then a Tesla decided to park next to me. By this time I getting a little anxious as I recalled seeing a couple of Range Rovers and a near new Discovery on my way in. The description of the wonderful features of her new handbag when she finally returned fell on deaf ears as I navigated our way out of the labyrinth as rapidly as safely possible and resumed breathing normally when we emerged in to sunshine and fresh air. The only compensating factor in comparison with the Luton disaster was the fact that this carpark is fitted out with a sprinkler sytem. However if I venture back to that consumerism complex I'll be using the outside carparks in future. Sooner or later the holes in the swiss cheese of EV engineering design flaws will line up with the lack of regulatory controls and the physical inadequacies of constructed buildings and a major loss of life event will occur.
@@BrianMorrison Yes as a retired Building Surveyor I am fully aware of that. However given the nature of BEV fires I wouldn't be relying on a sprinkler system to either allow safe passage out of there or to protect the structural integrity of the building. Current building standards are inadequate in this situation and there are many in the built environment that don't meet even that low benchmark which can be altered by "fire engineers" to accommodate design and in some cases budgetary considerations. The rapid introduction of a new transport system without mitigating all the risk factors and developing regulatory control for the protection of people and property is irresponsible. However, as in the past little will change until events force politicians to act.
@@willpeony5534 That's very true but their relative status can change rapidly and even the most (very ) expensive can be left sitting on the shelf (they don't get lonely) when a new "must have" comes to light. I do it with tools but that's different as I actually use them sometimes for practical purposes.
@@andrewwatson5360 I do it with swords ...... the problem began when I bought my first one. Like tools, there is no "one for every job". I was kidding about the handbags by the way, that's just marketing.
Very good and useful analysis... too many large corps are trying to divert our reasoning to their own benefit.. we need people like yourself that is not trying to gaslight. Thank you.
Funny I live 30 miles from Luton Airport and it takes an Aussie some 12,000 miles away to give me the best assessment of the event. Thanks Mate, like the channel and may come back.
the reg was E10 EFL, a red 2014 Range Rover diesel Comments on other sites have mentioned a huge fire in a Liverpool car park back in 2017/18 which caused massive destruction. It started with a diesel SUV - one of the JLR products. The flammability of diesel is not a primary issue, , since vehicle fires usually start with electrical faults, oil/hydraulic fluid/fuel leaking on to hot turbos/exhausts, etc.. Once the vehicle is alight, it will burn whatever the fuel/power source.
Liverpool's fire was started by an L322 Range Rover from the looks, either that or Classic it was one of the boxier models. People have incorrectly stated a burned out Discovery Series 1, started it but it was sadly just a victim.
When I was an apprentice the instructor asked us what steps we would take if were involved in a big fire. The majority of use favoured long strides al’ la Usain Bolt
My venture from Luton was made all the smoother by a reliable parking service. The straightforward booking, competitive rates, and secure, accessible spots were exactly what I needed. The staff were on the ball, providing swift and courteous service. Coming back to my car in the same condition I left it was the reassurance I needed. For seamless parking at Luton, EzyBook is a solid choice.
Some of my experiences says diesel doesn’t ignite like that, but a tiny 5000 mAh Remote Control car Lipo battery sure has a rather big white flash bang smoke fire affair. Your analysis is spot on regarding engine running (lights on) 12v operational, the lipo location on the drivers front and the flash bang would be how I would imagine how a full size car lipo would go poo poo. Love your stuff John, keep up the good reporting.
This was a great vid , informative and intelligent and put across in a typical Aussie fashion ,up front no cobblers and in such a way that even a "just the basics " guy like me can understand everything you said .Thanks for this mate I subscribed because I think I will learn a lot from you .
From the picture it is possible that the vehicle that ignited was behind the Range Rover. Also, even if it was caused by a diesel car, then how many electric cars ignited as a result of the heat?
They say the registration number is E10 EFL which is a diesel Range Rover. Does the registration plate in that video contain 6 digits or is it a much shorter cherished number?
That interview and the comments made by the fire officer just smacks of being a cover up. Any other major fire that takes place over here in the UK, the investigation takes weeks if not months to complete. It is rather strange that this guy can state within hours of the fire that the cause was a diesel vehicle. Very few car parks over here in blighty have sprinkler systems, vandalism is the main reason given for this .
You think it's strange that the fire fighter could see the car that started the fire? Or that he knows/thinks that it is not a hybrid or EV is the strange part?
@@colin4850 I'm not sure how that affects the ability of the firefighter to determine that the vehicle is solely powered by diesel and that the vehicle in qestion doesn't have any traction batteries. maybe you should just wait for the investigation report before you stock up on alfoil to make your hats.
In over 40 years of driving and car ownership I've had only one vehicle burst into flames. Yes, it was a series 3 land rover. It had only 4 fuses, and, impressively, none of them blew even though the wiring loom was on fire. Rover have never been good in this area
The only thing I could imagine besides the DPF on a Diesel would be a runaway Turbo Diesel, but it would be a remarkable accomplishment if Range Rover could manage this on a modern car in urban british traffic. I also found the part where "a sprinkler system could have helped" amazing. It's almost as if those things were made for such cases. While writing this, I got told that not far away from here (central Germany) a Train was burning and guess what was on it... Defenders.
The fire service said the car park was not fitted with sprinklers. It is thought the fire started with a diesel-powered vehicle "and then that fire has quickly and rapidly spread", said Andrew Hopkinson, Bedfordshire's chief fire officer
One of the most common ways (although still a rare event) that diesel causes a fire in a vehicle's engine compartment is if you spring a leak in your fuel system on the high pressure side of the injection pump & it sprays a fine mist of fuel directly onto the hot exhaust manifold, but the vehicles engine obviously has to be running for this to occur.
@@jessh5310 - Nope, all you need is a heat source that is at a higher temperature than the flash point of diesel, & the exhaust manifold temp gets way higher than the flashpoint of diesel, especially atomized diesel. Otherwise a diesel engine simply wouldn't work, as diesel is combusted on contact with the compressed heated air in the cylinder that is higher than the flashpoint of diesel. No spark or flame required in a diesel engine buddy. By the way, i'm a marine engineer with more than 25 years experience, with several advanced marine firefighting courses under my belt.
@@andrewstewart9263 that's strange, I had a fuel filter on my 6.7 diesel go out located on the top rear of the engine that leaked diesel all over the engine and exhaust on the highway for approximately an hour and no fire.
@@kenneth9874 - Dunno, but all i can say for sure, is that for whatever reason, one or more of the conditions required for that diesel to combust wasn't met. Luckily i've never experienced a fire because of diesel being injected onto a hot manifold, but i do know other engineers that have, & we are taught in marine firefighting school that this very scenario is indeed a fire hazard which has been the cause of many engine room fire incidents on vessels in the past.
It's been confirmed by the vehicle registration and the DVLA register that the vehicle concerned was a straight TDV6 i.e. it was NOT a hybrid or EV. As someone who lives quite local to Luton I can see no reason whatsoever why Bedfordshire FRS would do anything other than report the facts to quell the speculation around the cause of the fire. They certainly have no reason to be shilling for the EV industry or anyone else, as they have a statutory duty with regard to fire safety and prevention. I'm not quite sure why so many 'experts' from half way around the world think they have a better insight into what happened than the people who actually dealt with the fire on site. So can we please stop with all the ludicrous conspiracy theories.
Geoff Buys Cars did an interesting video on identifying the type of Range Rover in the photo. He also discussed the DPF being a possible cause of the fire or a hybrid's battery.
my friends 2015 defender popped off its diesel return pipe on the motorway, it removed all the underseal before he noticed his fuel dropping fast, to add insult, he went to the coast a few weeks later to find the head of the dealership tasked with repair, using it to launch his boat, with no underseal. He actually claimed he was using the salt to prepare it for the undersealing.
I live just 10 miles from this Airport and I suspect this car park next to the front door of the Airport was probably full of EV's as it's only the wealthy that could afford to park there. I'm not sure sprinklers would have much effect as my understanding the amount of water it takes to extinguish an EV is about 10 times that of a regular combustion engine. Thanks John for your informative and entertaining video.
Was thinking the same about the sprinkler system. You can also just make out that the number plate is a private one. If there is any security entry video to the car park the number plate will give the game away right away.
No EV that was plugged it caught fire while charging. These Hybrid diesel Range Rovers have been recalled for the same reason it caught fire. - Range Rover Hybrid Power: 3.0-litre straight-six Ingenium diesel engines features 48V Mild Hybrid Electric Vehicle (MHEV) The Hybrid battery on those are situated on the N/S
I parked at Luton the other week. That car park was almost £200 for 10 days - I parked off site and took a shuttle bus for half that cost. So it's not going to be cheap cars in there.
My neighbour once used a disposable bbq and because he was a bit ocd about his garden he has disposed of it in his rubbish bin, at about 3am the front of the semi detached house and 2 petrol cars ware lit, the fire brigade was called and i mamaged to safely move my cars to a safe place, there was no explosion and it took the fire brigade about 15 minutes to put it out once they arrived, it was the plastic rubbish bins that caused the fire to spread not the cars. My point is that even if petrol/diesel cars catch fire they are easy to put out and the fire is more localised so they are less likely to affect other stuff.
I've messed with lipo batteries for 20 years now in rc planes and in that time I had a fire which was due to electronic speed controller getting wet and shorting out the battery, Was on a lake and looked like a bomb had gone off, it was a 1.3ah 3 cell battery, been super careful with them since lol, the thought of sitting in a cage on top of one scares me.
Hi John, I am somewhat dubious about this fire, I mean I can't recall such a thing in my lifetime. Bottom line is, if it was a diesel fire how come the fire brigade didn't do their thing? EV's must be responsible if not for the ignition event, then certainly for 5he steelwork going all wobbly, and obvious resulting collapse. EV's (even if they aren't responsible on this occasion) shouldn't be allowed to charge up in such places. Drive in tanks that can instantly be flooded with thousands of liters of chilled brine might be the only safe option in built up areas.
There's literally a video of the discovery on fire , the Liverpool car park and plenty of other car park fires before EV's were around show that these things happen , or maybe its a conspiracy and they were all electrified DeLoreans time traveling ??
Why "must" Ev's be responsible? Was the car park magically free of petrol vehicles on this occasion? If an EV is set on fire by a burning ICE vehicle why does the EV become responsible? I suspect you have never seen what happens to steel work in a large hydrocarbon fire. Steel will bend quite happily without a lithium ion battery fire.
These have been recalled for the same reason it caught fire. - Range Rover Hybrid Power: 3.0-litre straight-six Ingenium diesel engines features 48V Mild Hybrid Electric Vehicle (MHEV) Soon carparks ferries,trains etc will ban EVs
But the Norwegian Ferry Company spent the money and installed the briner system. They will take EVs anywhere because they feel (and can prove) that their company has the possibility of a fire and the means to fight it......under control. Commercial gold mine as a just reward for investing in the right fire fighting gear at the right time. @@tardeliesmagic
Unless they are out of the country and not heard the news, surely they must know who the owner is. They will surely be putting in an insurance claim for the vehicle. The details of what the vehicle is will then be known. Also, if the VIN number plate is still readable, that will also reveal the vehicle details.
Nicely put John. Humans will mostly wait till it's very late before implementing change. The harnessing of electricity and the advent of aviation are two notable examples. In their respective times, many people died and the dangers seems insurmountable. Both are now very safe when you consider the ingredients that are going into the mixing bowl. Also, why does Range Rover appear to leave the validation of their new technologies to their customers?
Great episode John. Very much appreciated the scathing, but hilarious criticism of a subject that concerns itself, not just with a vehicle producer, but how politics and media appears to have become joined at the hip these days. As for the term, External Combustion Vehicles...still LMAO! A new fan🤣
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Hi John.
Here is a story that will amuse you and the viewers.
I volunteer to conduct maintenance checks on a small fleet of ambulances in regional WA.
Recently we received a brand-new Mercedes sprinter Ambulance. All mod cons including, adaptive cruise, lane assist etc. But no dip sticks to check the engine oil.
The first week we had it took a while to commission and long story short the batteries became flat.
When I tried to unlock the doors, of course nothing happened. It was then I realised there was no mechanical key which the older vehicle keys have as an option for such eventuality.
All ambulances are fitted with an external charger so all we had to do was charge the batteries and all was well.
Of course, I would imagine that if you buy the vehicle for other purposes there is no external charging option.
What is one supposed to do? you can't get to the engine bay (release is inside the vehicle) and there's no way of opening the doors.
I discussed this problem with the local Mercedes dealership service manager, and he said there is no solution that he knows of! Indeed, he asked me how we managed to open the doors.
He suggested we keep the window wound down halfway...
A vehicle that costs probably around $80,000 and if the battery goes flat no one can unlock it. Now that's what I call money well spent.
R
leaving the window down half way is a solution for an old POS with 'trick' doors warped frames and mostly rust and body filler
not a supposedly state of the art rescue vehicle
and the price is a bit higher than 80k for those ambulances
You simply smash the glass you mug 😂
They call this progress, all the progressives that they know better than everyone else. The Green Marxists .
Watermelons 🍉, green on the outside red on the inside .
The Merc key is releasd from the remote fob and fits in a slot under the door handle, surprised the dealer doesn't know this !
@@Dr.Jellyfingers not in the latest model
Excellent advice on identifying the fire exits and getting out. This applies to any building (or aircraft, car etc.). Early in my career (40 years ago) I was forced to become a part-time fire and safety officer at the engineering works and iron foundry who employed me. I was sent on a week's course. The excellent training (from RoSPA - the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents) has left me with a lifetime routine of identifying the emergency exits wherever I go. At worst this is a harmless habit but at best it could save my life.
Yes, I’ve attended various fire safety courses in my career. The first thing they recommended, like you, is scouting out the building’s fire exit. Secondly one advised keeping valuable and essential items, wallet, passport, keys etc in a small grab bag available as you flee.
One thing I do when seated on a plane is count how many rows of seats I will have to climb over to get to an exit. When it's dark, and I need to get out as quickly as possible, I will not be attempting to join a disorderly queue in the aisle.
When booking your seat on a flight make sure your seat is 7 or less rows from the emergency exit
Beyond that ONLY getting into the emergency position and kissing you A...ss good bye is of any worth
@@daviddaw999unfortunately your strategy is likely to kill you. The extra effort in climbing seats will cause you to suffer more seriously from smoke inhalation. Then you'll probably create aggression at the exit if you get there, killing more people.
Better to get out slowly and live than rush to your death. Get down and follow the lights.
Ditto for this NYFD licensed fire safety director for high rise office buildings. The training made me permanently hyper aware of exits and hazards
The fire resulted in £20 million of improvements to Luton Airport. Anyone who regularly visits Luton will be devastated to know that it didn't spread to the town.
😂
I'm told Loo-ton is looking better already 😂.
good one ha ha ha
😂😂
Haaaa. 😂😂
What I particularly loved was the way the concrete hadn't even cooled down before they were blaming 'Diesel' for the fire.
Never in all the long history of the Fire Service was an investigation carried out and wrapped up so quickly . . . "Nothing to see here, move along, please!"
BBC did this in the 13.30 news, by 6pm news they didn’t comment on what kind of car it was (they probably knew by then it was a hybrid)
Whoever thinks this was a diesel ⛽ car fire 🔥 is absolutely crazy 😂
The fact that the press and a 🚒 firefighter was so quick to jump to conclusions and state that it was a "Diesel' before any searches of wreckages and reports were even attempted should ring alarm bells 🔔
The fact that the owner of that so-called single vehicle in flames has not come forward. The fact that the person videoing that lone vehicle has not come forward or been named...or even why they happened to be casually filming at the time...and not bothering calling 999.
The fact that a second video of the same car filmed from the front just happened to turn up online days later...🙄
The fact that it hasn't even been established that this was filmed at the Luton car park...
The fact that no actual proof of anything so far.
The fact that this single vehicle caused the collapse of a whole level of car park on top of another...
It's all far too suspect...and definitely a cover up.
There was literally a video of the start of the fire being a range rover...
@@lillie13ify Yeah. Would you care to explain why the fire appears to be on the offside front wheel and NOT from the engine bay?
@@lillie13ify Where is the actual proof that this vehicle was the 'start' of the blaze...where is the proof that it was actually taken in that car park ...where is the time-stamp showing the actual time of recording the video (to match with time if car park fire)...where is the owner of that particular vehicle...who was it that hung around videoing that particular vehicle...why would that same person inside a carp park, walk past the blazing car to casually film the front of the vehicle...then wait several days to release footage of the second video? I say that it is all bullshit and an obvious cover up.
I expect it was an EV hybrid simply because of the obvious MSM blackout. If it WAS a pure diesel I would bet my house they would be shouting it from the rooftops. BTW I live in England, the EV greenwashing is in full on mode here, same with heat pumps, solar, turbines and all the rest, even though we contribute less than 1% towards global emissions.
What blackout? 🤦♂️ If anyone wants a blackout, it's Range Rover, specially because it's a uk brand.
It was a diesel. They know the reg number.
Range Rover is owned by The Indian company Tata Motors.@@globalist1990
@@LiamE69😂😂 diesel does not explode
@@sempereadem54eadem64 It burns. As does a lot of other stuff in a car.
The only "explosion" was caused by the floor collapse.
I worked in the FRS in the UK for over 30 years. The use of the word "believe" is a breathing space so that the Service can position itself in the best part of the final truth. When this changes is when there is loss of life. Senior Managers do not want to "believe" because that has so many more serious implications for them if they appear to have misled the Coroner and or the public. In those cases they always say "cause under investigation". I can't remember being involved in a diesel fire that wasn't malicious in nature, as a result of a high impact or, and rarely, and electrical issue. Hell I am struggling to remember such fires. Lorries that are the main users of diesel on our motorways typically have brake fires that set fire to frozen fish fingers in the back and the Fire-fighters spend their time slipping around on un-ignited diesel. They will do anything to save fish fingers.
If they go in for fish fingers and custard, they'll have shown their true dedication.
Must be the right custard
Your advice to get away from the smoke plume - I've made a note. I didn't realize. Nature and TT News have some interesting articles.
Today the fire service's website - news page - says established - the belief has been confirmed.
I'm in very rural Northern BC Canada. I have seen plenty of diesel powered vehicles burn over the years. Here are some common denominators. The fires were started initially by;
(1) Electrical failure resulting in plastics beginning to burn (as you mentioned)
(2) Failure of the turbo at load. This isn't a situation where the vehicle was idling or cruising through a parkade with a low EGT. It was a situation where loaded commercial vehicle are climbing steep hills.
(3) Some sort of oil line or oil cooler failure, again, with that vehicle under load and the oil ignited by some source of heat... like a turbo.
I am particularly familiar with one circumstance where my own Ram 3500 diesel burned on the side of the highway one evening. It had taken damage to the grill and an engine or transmission cooler by a large rock from a passing vehicle. Approximately 2 hours of highway driving later after several stops to check for leaks, I believe the oil cooler failed and the oil was likely ignited by the hot turbocharger of my Cummins Diesel engine. My fire extinguisher did not have enough capacity to extinguish the fire.
Here's the important part.
After roughly half an hour of burning, the diesel fuel tank began to melt (Plastic Poly of some sort) and leak. It did not explode. The diesel ignited under the vehicle, on the ground, in a pool and that pool slowly and lazily burned as it migrated away from the vehicle and extinguished itself roughly 3 meters from the burning vehicle. This was clearly visible from my vantage point 50 meters away. Trust me, that was close enough given the explosions from the inflated tires as they burned and failed.
I see a fire external to the engine compartment. Vehicle lights still on meaning the 12 volt system is not affected. Doors closed, so not an interior fire. A very hot fire nowhere near a fuel tank location. A vehicle operating at next to zero load so don't talk about a regen canister blow-out. A fire that just happens to be in the same location as this model hybrid's battery location.
In this Luton case, there is no pool of lazily burning diesel on the ground. This fire is unrelated to whatever petroleum product may be in the vehicle. Being as the flames are acting in a manner that they are being propelled, like a burning battery does in thermal runaway, there is absolutely no reason to "believe" this is a diesel related fire.
I guess we will have to wait and listen to what the media is told to say. As of this writing, I call bullshit on non-EV related.
Just apply prior mentioned Spooky Ability and ask driver what make car it was .
@@danharasty6686 So far, that's the only person nobody is allowed to talk to. Besides, If I owned that car, I'd slide off into the night and wait for someone to phone me. Then I'd claim someone stole it.
Exactly; This fire in Luton,,, was almost 100% NOT caused by diesel...... Certainly not alone. Look at the photo/video: Fire is to the front and left of the car.
And burning violently.....yet the lights are still on, on that vehicle......
It's a sham and /(as an ex Fireman from the UK) I am ashamed that a so called Senior Fire Officer can STATE as he did.... "The fire originated in a diesel Range Rover".
Bull Sh#T of the highest order.
Than man must be reprimanded at the very least: You do not give such opinions within minutes of arriving at the scene. You wait for the full investigation.
He's obviously a puppet of the Government....or at least his HQ are.
Hey up ray yep your right on the money mate that's the diesel way it definitely doesn't explode
You do not make sense to me. What was burning? There would only be a minority of electric cars there. If it was a deisel hybred they are the most likely to catch fire, followed by ICE and then electric. The whole car park burnt down and the fuel played a part
Absolutely bloody brilliant. You're a hell of a writer, and clearly stuffed full of common sense, knowledge, and pragmatism. Thank you for your insightful and hilarious commentary. I was driving on the M25 when this was happening. I had never before seen a sign on the gantry saying that Luton was closed. I knew something serious must be going on. My first thought was terrorist attack. As I was driving, I couldn't look it up. Come to find out, it's a damn Range Rover that's exploded!
I was over in the West Midlands (M54) when I saw a sign about it. At least Luton is fairly close to the M25! I had the same thoughts - terrorism, but also airliner crash and (cynical third thought) maybe an EV fire. Also knew that The Authorities would have issued endless obfuscating denials if it had been the third option. As JC pointed out, words like 'believe' don't belong in objective reporting.
what in the fk would happen if a couple of ev's batts were tinkered with to go boom on demand?? holy poo-poo Batman!
To be honest, this is an improvement for Luton
Cruel but fair.
The repair cost is estimated to be around £26.95 😅
It has not impacted the passenger experience at all!
Yes,makes it look like Syri@ 😂 Very homewarming.
Correction: Lutonistan.
Glad to see SOMEBODY else noticing this.
The fire is clearly at it's most intense at the left side of the vehicle.
Even if we assume ANYTHING else started the fire (DPF, starter motor, evil pixies), there's clearly something under the left side of the vehicle that's much more flammable than the rest of the vehicle.
I wonder what that could be???
A battery maybe
That is where the DPF is positioned on that car..... it's a 2014 Range Rover Sport 3.0L diesel, and is registered as such, check the reg number to obtain the details E10EFL
@@Van-1954 Batteries are heavy. So they are central. So doubly no.
@@AdrianMidgley You haven´t seen the video. That´s makes you a TROLL!
@@mikehunt8968 And that reg nr was at another place..NOT AT LUTON AIRPORT!!!!. Please dont talk to your mother when watching these kind of videos.. Or stay with cartoons..
A couple of things here, The car pictured as the cause of the Luton fire is said to be an Evoque but if you focus on the tail lights they are far more like the Landrover Sport from 2021/22. The Evoque's are a much narrower double red tail light and the 2023 Sport looks similar. If it is a Sport it is more likely to be a hybrid model as the fire was in Britain. Another strange thing happened in Scotland a day ago because a news report flashed up on some peoples phones of a car on fire in a Glasgow sub floor carpark and it was reported to be an EV and the video clip with it looked like an EV fire but as quickly as the news broke it disappeared and no mention of it could be found anywhere. Spooky
It was a 2014 Range Rover Sport SE TDV6 Diesel. The registration plate was E10 EFL.
They tried same cover up when that car transport ship burned recently, but luckily truth was told by fire officer in that case.
That fire in Glasgow Airport was a Ford mondeo taxi 3 weeks ago...
@@SimonCoates and no, they didn't do hybrid versions of them back then, so there's that ...
@@SimonCoates source? Also, if true, then that means that the physics around diesel have changed.
As a former mechanic, that was a beautiful investigative analysis 👌
Everything you said was spot on
Except he was wrong. The car's registration number is E10EFL, registered to a Range Rover Sport Diesel. Not a hybrid.
Hilarious. EV = 🔥🔥🔥🔥
@@zoobrizz Or, in this case, diesel = 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Apart from the bit where he said 'literally all the information on these vehicles has the battery on the left'. The workshop manual has it on the right. The fire rescue App has it on the right. NCAP in their crash reports has it on the right. In fact everywhere I've looked, as a mechanic myself has it on the right. He's just googled the first marketing image he could find and ran with it. What a muppet. As a so called auto 'expert' I thought he would have checked with the manual or some technical resource. Maybe, just maybe, he's not an 'auto expert' after all and he's just another RUclipsr that's slave to clickbait.
@@davep3969 Not to mention that he literally has no idea and it's all conjecture. The number plate has been traced back to a 2014 Range Rover sport diesel V6 - not a hybrid.
I worked on mercedes vehicles for all of my career. And diesel fuel leaks were as common as folks drinking coffee in the morning. And in all those years and all those leaks, i never saw or heard of a fire caused by those diesel leaks. Diesel just takes waaay to much to catch fire. Soooo, my honest opinion is that this fure was not caused by a diesel leak.
They are writing a new science, from 9/11, Plandemic, Green and Climate..
I don't think anyone said that. Just that the vehicle that initially caught fire was diesel powered. The idea that only EV's catch fire is nonsense. Once a fire has started in a car park like that it is always going to be a sh*t show, regardless of the fuel type being used by the vehicles.
Diesel vehicle fires are common, but it is the effect of heat, vibration or chemically degrading the vehicle components that tends to initiate the fires. In this hybrid it may be the lithium battery that was the major accelerant, but initial ignition point may still have been due to the use of a deisel engine.
@@johnpublicprofile6261 was it a hybrid, or are you just assuming that because of this video?
I agree with you, the colour of that fire has to be the battery
As the son of a professional truck driver and former "armed gas station attendant" (Mitltary fuel truck driver) as my mom would sometimes teasingly call him, I can tell you that diesel does take some effort to get going. Take that for what it is.
Forgive me, I jumped the gun (come and get me yah bloody Bobby's lol) regarding Disel's reluctance to combust.
"Diesel does take some time to get going." This is exactly why most, if not all, schools got rid of their gasoline powered school busses after the Carrolton Bus Crash.
I work in a fire testing facility everything he is saying is legit, very good advice
Hopefully you have learnt something from the actual evidence that it was a diesel vehicle that was the cause of the accident.
Our medias take on this event has been of the "nothing to see here, move along" genre.
The fact they rushed to exonerate EV involvement just proved it was an EV. We're not all that stupid.
Great analysis and conclusion.
👏🏻👏🏻
Unless you’re mayor of London
Exactly nothing to see here, it's just DIESEL Range Rover Sport L494 on fire. The FRONT LEFT is the CATALYTIC CONVERTER, there should be no reason why the area around a CATALYTIC CONVERTER could catch on fire. (sarcasm if you didn't get it)
The media just wants to BLAME Electric Vehicles and ignore the mechanical facts.
FYI The EV Charging Stations are in Terminal Car Park 1 ONE. This building that burnt down is Terminal Car Park 2 TWO.
Nothing to see here, move along. Just ignore the facts.
You need to be corrected. The investigation found that it started in a Range Rover. No EVs were involved.
Unfortunately you and Jon Cadogan are WRONG.
My my. Imagine all those years of no Airport multi storey car park fires, with all those diesel cars parked over the decades. We should count ourselves so lucky to have survived 🙄.
Indeed, if we knew they were so dangerous... 😂
It was a diesel hybrid Range Rover, and the fire started around the front left quarter, where the HV battery is located.
The vehicle has been identified it was a 2014 RR Sport V6 diesel registration E10EFL videos have confirmed this.
It seems so but it’s not confirmed yet. Nor is that number plate that people have been throwing around. Until I see a picture myself showing the number plate, it is just a random number plate someone has found.
What videos?
Whos a good little shill house then.. On parrot mode @@ItsAllJustBollox
@@oliverpolden 100% confirmed. The reg is visible in pics taken from the reverse angle.
Those very same building codes that brought you the ability to clad large apartment buildings with flammable cladding.
- and in some regions even laminated glass is deemed too flammable to be incorporated in a (multi story) high curtain wall.
Regarding diesel and matches, on a ramp in Detroit MI as an aircraft mechanic, the airplane that I was on was being fueled and the shutoff malfunctioned sending jet fuel out the wingtips causing a lake of jet fuel probably 30 feet in diameter and was pooling. A “safety” truck pulled onto the scene and drove right through the middle of his fuel spill and it did nothing. No ignition, no fire, no explosion, absolutely nothing and it was about 70 degrees or so out side as we scrambled to prevent the fuel from getting into the drains.
A side note. BYD has had numerous battery fires in China, but it's not published because the government says so, it's not good for business.
BYD now a shortened version of "burn your driveway."
They have thousands sitting idles in fields! They build them just to show/tell the world they've build so many of them.
But of course you know this
Owning an EV here in the UK will soon be near impossible, as insurance companies are really jacking up the prices by silly amounts and some no longer insuring EVs. Just waiting for the insurance companies to stop home insurance if you park an EV within a certain distance of your house.
All insurance is going up in the UK, not just EV's. My insurance on my EV went up from £300 to £450 so a massive jump. I think it's more to do with how new cars are made and how difficult they are to repair.
Maybe there will be a "right to repair" movement soon like they are doing with electronic devices such as phones to allow for easier repairs. Take a look at the Rivian dent removal that a guy was quoted $41k for. Nothing to do with it being an EV, just trying to repair a dent.
That was the reason why I did not purchase one
Probably they'll ask if any EVs are parked near your home, like they ask about trees within a certain distance. I get a discount for parking my ICE car off road, I can imagine soon it will be a surcharge if you have an EV off road or in a garage, providing you can find someone to insure it!
Picked up a single motor tesla to save on petrol. My insurance is twice as much as I paid for a heavily modified supercharged 4.5L Cayenne Turbos S that was way faster and I had all the modifications declared. Makes 0 sense.
Geoff buys cars did an update on this fire and it was an hybrid/diesel RR according to his information. It won't be the legislators that put an end to this madness, it will be the insurance companies. They don't make money paying out claims and a public liability claim on a 20 mill carpark full of cars is not what they want.
I live down the road from Luton, info on the vehicle 😉 These have been recalled for the same reason it caught fire. - Range Rover Hybrid Power: New family of 3.0-litre straight-six Ingenium diesel engines features 48V Mild Hybrid Electric Vehicle (MHEV) technology and joins Plug-In Hybrid.
In the UK, because of the fires when the car is charging on the owners property, some cars have gone on fire and caused significant damage to their property,thus Insurance companies are either refusing to insure the property or loading the premium, I've also heard the insurers ask if your next door neighbour have a EV charger,even if you don't
😮
Wow, insurance companies are asking if your neighbours have an EV!
That’s crazy, but makes sense from a risk mitigation POV.
I was watching the BBC news channel the morning following the fire; their reporter on the ground said at 07:15, the fire was "believed to be started by a vehicle, an electric vehicle." This was the one and only time the reporter said those words. All reports after that point didn't mention the vehicle until other sources started banging the Diesel drum. I suspect the initial report was correct, that the vehicle was indeed a hybrid Diesel vehicle, and judging by the photos showing the fire position and lack of black smoke, I'm inclined to trust in your assessment John.
Even if it was a hybrid, Evoque hybrids are MHEVs with tiny batteries, 0.2 kwh. And they don’t burn easily or for no reason either. Black smoke/white smoke? Ever seen jet aircraft displaying and trailing white smoke? Diesel fuel being injected into the exhaust. White smoke.
Orwellian isn't it.
They have always been doing this for years British bulsh***ing corporation
@@oldgit15 It's not an Evoque.
There are lots of Americans here who would tell the reporter firmly something they had no actual knowledge of. Subsequent reports after people who actually look at events in Luton sre more likely to be correct. Those which involve looking up the actual vehicle even more so. Perhaps the driver will pop up in due course, although he may bd keeping his head down.
Imagine a 4 year old car park not having a sprinkler system! They have been compulsory in Australia for 40 years
Car park is rated to last evacuation period. 15 minutes I googled so happy to be put right. No one killed so probably worked.
The thing is a sprinkler system in a car park filled with EV's would be as effective in a fire as stopping an eruption by pissing in a vulcano.
The carpark design is like a IKEA flat pack carpark design made to be easily assembled and quickly built and cheap to produce. Structurally, it's a steel girder frame with metal platforms covered in a tarmac style coating. Scary thought is a lot of these new build carparks are seen across the UK at train stations, town centres and some large supermarkets. A lot of the older carparks in the UK have actually got some form of sprinkler system fitted and are built of concrete.
@@RenghisKhan maybe, but I don't think an EV would have caught fire in the first place. We need to ban ice, they are dangerous fire risks
@@crumbschief5628 I agree with banning ice, though more from a lactose intolerant and a 'don't spoil my whisky' point of view.
You have highlighted my thoughts about this incident. As you pointed out, not the only one. The media here in the UK has been desperate to avoid the thought that the vehicle contained a traction battery. Even the fire service were a bit too fast in saying it was a diesel vehicle. Way before any investigation had taken place. Whatever the cause, these car parks with no sprinkler system are potentially lethal in any fire, and your advice to be aware and make plans for if the worst should happen, is great advice.
Sprinkler systems? How will they deal with EV thermal runaways?
@@Trevor_Austin they won't but they do deal with non EV fires quite adequately
The airport carpark is smothered in CCTV, there's absolutely no way they wouldn't have the number plate of the vehicle that started the fire and therefore be able to identify its fuel type within a couple of minutes.
@@Trevor_Austin that's a strange statement.
Nobody said they would.
Sprinkler systems will help contain a fire to a much smaller area, they also often give people adequate time to escape before conditions are unsurvivable or lead to a collapse.
And that's before we talk about how 90% of cars in most car parks are still ICE.
It's about REDUCING RISK, not having the ultimate solution to everything.
The car was identified by plate on camera and verified that it was a diesel only powertrain.
That was easy.
So deliciously eloquent! Not sure if you'll also note that the Rover was still in the drive lane, it wasn't parked. They did concede that several EVs burst into flames. I believe they said sprinklers should be installed in all multi storey car parks - but, would it really help in such a situation.
From the Dutch example, yes. The help might only be a short delay, but that may be critical.
Your analysis of the fire (around time mark 7m30s and after) is quite correct IMO. Corroborating: the color (NA; colour elsewhere) of the fire under the vehicle, consistent with an oxygen-rich (= injected) combustion, around or above 1200C (2200F, 1500K). The explosion front (around 9m10s) is also very white. And if what we see there is a deflagration that destroys the floor under the car - there is no chance that a relatively slow petrol/diesel atmospheric burn could do this, both energetically and directionally..
no chance... mate, strong winds, heat, you must win lotto everytime you buy a ticket hey.... pfft. Could have been a case where someones fueld up a diesel vehicle with petrol for example, overheats, runs away. etc. its a guessing game based on the pics we all have.
The car's registration number is E10EFL, registered to a Range Rover Sport Diesel. Not a hybrid.
@@jasoncattThe light shapes are from the hybrid version
@@jasoncattthat’s what “ they “ told ya. 😉
@@olly7248 That's not what the government register for the vehicle says.
This is the best discussion of this matter I have seen. Controlling the talk to control reality never works because a head in the sand approach dulls the urgency in identifying and resolving problems. People hate being blamed. Building codes definitely need a review - cars are changing, fire load due to plastics increased, DPF and other technical developments, sprinklers not mandatory in the existing car parks and probably not new ones.
Why would multiple firefighters lie? How big is the conspiracy to cover it up? Again why would firefighter's lie? Are firefighters known to love electric cars? I don't think so. I think they would love to say it was an EV.
I agree fire fighters are unlikely to lie, it is unlikely there is a conspiracy to cover things up. I agree given the difficulty extinguishing EV fires fire fighters would probably like to have an EV fire to highlight their concerns. The issue is not at that level. It is far more subtle. The problem is ‘mal- information’ which is information that is true but nudges public opinion the ‘wrong way’ - call it negative publicity for a worthy cause. You may not agree but I see increasing pressure on media and everyday discussion to not point out anything negative on certain topics where it is considered important to get all the fish swimming in the same direction. I think people sense this and the result is that people begin to feel patronized and mistrustful this is a perfectly normal reaction. We naturally sense when other people walk on eggshells or are guarding the interests of say a friend. The best way to inspire trust is to allow the details to be published and have an open discussion rather than labelling people or content to stop further discussion. I am not pro ICE or EV. I think both are I incredible human creations. We do however need to appreciate the changing risk profiles of technological change which is increasingly rapid compared with traditional management based on steady state conditions.
Hot stuff
@@BertWald-wp9pz I see a concerted effort to put fake EV fires all over the internet. And it is not just firefighters. Police and private security would have to be involved. They saw the video before the fire started including when the vehicle entered. Anybody who they spoke to before the word got out that we were going to make this look like it was not an EV fire would have to be silenced. The owner of the vehicle and anybody he told that was my car would have to be silenced to make it seem this was a deisel fire. Somebody would sell them out by now.
@@KingBravo-lo3vcit wouldn't be the first time people have been told to lie to save their job.
To me this seems like the perfect opportunity for insurance companies to hike insurance premiums for all cars, or not being able to insure your car/house at all. Another step towards the goals of no private ownership of cars/houses and no flights to holidays abroad.
Have you insured your car lately, the premiums are going through the roof, and this incident will add fuel to the flames, couldn't resist the pum.
Class D fires are not going to like water 😮
No no no. As is stands now ICE owners are subsidizing insurance premiums for EV’s.
@@charliepapa6848 I just renewed my insurance on my van which is used for work and personal use , i've had an increase of nearly £600 , they was quoting £800 increase at first which was nearly double
you are 100% correct on diesel characteristics, I was trying to get rid of some small tree stumps last year, and after hacking, I tried burning them. I only had gasoline and diesel available and I wanted a slow burn, not an explosion so the diesel was my choice. Small butane lighters would not start the fuel, so I finally got the diesel burning with a propane torch. Lots of black smoke too. Thank you for your insights.
There is a lack of understanding of the difference between the flashpoint and the autoignition temperature of petrol and diesel. On a hot surface it is diesel that will ignite at a lower temperature. Petrol is likely to evaporate before ignition and would then require a spark or flame to ignite.
@@gdll9247Yes it all depends on flash point.
The car's registration number is E10EFL, registered to a Range Rover Sport Diesel. Not a hybrid.
@@Derick-s7u I never even looked Like a Lithium battery fire, knew it was diesel all along.
@@carrollsanders9376A NEW SCAM BY ` ANTI-EV CHANNELS ` IS REPORTING YOUR COMMENTS AS FRAUDUALANT, SPAM, DECEPTIVE - TO CREATE A STRIKE ON YOUR CHANNEL - TO SHUT YOU DOWN....
There are many apartment building car parks that are not adequately fire rated and could lead to the building being rendered uninhabitable in the event of a fire like this.
It means they used cheap concrete
The fire requirements was taken from the fire service many years ago and given totally to building control ,hence the truly lack of expertise in requirements 🤔
There are a few carparks in Sydney that give preferential parking to EV's on the ground floor. A standard fire suppression system may mitigate damage but not put out the fire, esp. if all the EV's are in a row.
yea.... i might have constructed one of those last week... we do have sprinter and air lock to the building (as per law of cause).
I didn´t do the fire calculation, but the building suppose to be evacuated if there is a large fire. And that should really not be a problem.
A full high pressure sprinter system is (at least here) by law required for any full indoor parking. That SHOULD suppress the fire sufficiently so it should not spreed.... ... Should... it might not.
This really needs to be tested.
I honestly don´t think the people in the building i make is at risk (i didn´t make the fire safety system, just the general construction). The question really is the damage to the building, and if people get sick from the smoke. and.. well the material value.
Is insurance premium going to go up for homes due to cars? That is kind of unfair that everyone that don´t have a EV have to pay for them
Bloody good advice JC, those last few minutes were gold. Thank you.
JC, forgot to mention about the seat belt, you would be surprised how many people do not think in situations just like these, and are stuck to their seats, wasting many seconds in ratifying the problem of them getting out of a burning car, tragic.
A pilot friend of mine bought a Range Rover few years ago. The PD wasn't done properly. The inlet line from the fuel tank into the HPFP came off, while he was driving to work. The car went into limp and died on the side of the motorway. Diesel from the fuel tank got depleted into the engine bay. The dang thing still did not catch fire. The Luton fire doesn't add up.
"The Luton fire doesn't add up." = understatement of the year!
I had no idea
car parks were lethally dangerous!
Rumers are starting to evolve from some whistle blowers to say a business man late for a flight drove into the car park realised his car was on fire handed his keys for the car to the reception and ran off to catch his flight. The car was a hybrid, by the time the airport realised it was on fire the fire was out of control. There seems some controversy about the reg. plate as the rear plate is different. That is why the Police have arrested someone.
Yes it does add up. It was a diesel hybrid. Lithium ion battery right where it was burning. 2014 Ranger Rover Diesel Hybrid.
@@GMbowtie350What 2014 model exactly?
The car's registration number is E10EFL, registered to a Range Rover Sport Diesel. Not a hybrid.
The reason diesel (and not gasoline) is used in boats (of all sizes) is it is very hard to ignite (boats being no place to escape from in case of a fire). If you ever see a boat on fire, it is because it is one of the few with a gasoline engine.
And that’s ALWAYS the case??
@AlanWilliams-su4bs If you are asking whether a boat with a diesel engine & tank can burn, yes, of course it can, depending upon the hull material and other factors but it is an extremely rare event, compared to fires on gasoline powered boats. This has long been recognized in insurance rates for boats.
glad to know that all of the elecrical circuits are SELV from a 9V battery then..
My father was a diesel/hgv mechanic and I grew up with diesels. I never witnessed any sudden combustion or fires. The quality of wiring in petrol cars, it the 1.0l ecoboost ford as an example and the deployment of electrical powered vehicles has been the commonality of these events. Range rover is known for poor electrics in their vehicles, just ask any recovery driver or mechanic. The fire service was towing the eco mob line pdq rather than getting on with investigating the cause. As with many other countries infested by the "green doctrines" our politically correct services are blowing with the wind. Thanks for debunking the hyperbole John.
"Range rover is known for poor electrics in their vehicles" - are they still supplied by Lucas, the Prince of Darkness?
Funny. My step mothers diesel ford escort caught fire on the driveway and this was caused by an electrical fault.
But sure. Believe what you prefer.
@@RichardFraser-y9t2 month old account toeing the party line? Bott or gov shill....
The second i saw this, i knew it was either an EV fire, or a cultural enrichment fire.
@@RichardFraser-y9t How did the fire manifest itself? Explosively or as a steady fire? I think that's the point being made. As others have said, diesel fires do not seem to fit the profile of this fire. I'm not an expert on fire but my very limited experience of fossil fel fires is that diesel simply does not "blow up" the way petrol does and the way I know lithium ion batteries do.
Lookign at the aviation world, they have had quite a few lithium ion batetry incidents which have been sudden, explosive and very difficult to contain.
This is an interesting little clip from ABC News Australia: www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=ev+catching+fire#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:a6c84487,vid:NWvI1daNils,st:0
I love your attitude and carefully crafted sarcastic and entertaining approach to the BS we all have to navigate through in our lives. Keep it coming 😂
Hi John , many years ago driving north up here in the sunshine state I was stopped by a Policeman in Rockhampton, was told a Semi was on fire just up the highway , road closed , the next morning stopped at the burnt out semi , had been loaded with hairspray tarp covered , driver smoking , flicked a smoke out of the window onto the tarp causing the fire , apparently a marvellous fire show following as the spray cans exploded , when I arrived all out , the heat generated actually melted parts of the vehicle , trailer, and prime-mover there was diesel dripping from the step tanks had not caught fire . Old jc
Yes John.
I had heard the owner used the fire extinguisher before leaving giving the airport employee the keys and raising the alarm.
I had to burn off red diesel ( big spillage on a motorway construction site in 1972 ) , the various matches went out ( with a puff of white smoke ) , I had to load an old T shirt with diesel set it on fire and slowly place it on the pool of diesel , but eventually it burnt with LOTS of black smoke , This was a battery fire , for sure , you are right ! ... DAVE™🛑
Good advice, great video. Back in 1975 my Austin Maxi caught fire whilst parked in a pub car park (where else!). On rushing out I found the inside full of smoke but could see the fire was coming from the steering column (ignition switch?) and after a few dramas with the pub's fire extinguisher got fire out. What was interesting was that all the lights were on and the horn was continuously sounding. It turned out it was an electrical fault.
How weird, a fault with a Lucas system that actually turned the lights on!
I don't know why but many older cars had the horn wire on top of the loom so any fire would set off the horn which was earth to sound. Early safety?
Why did you put it out
@@thadiusthudpucker We all make mistakes!
Good thing about Maxis you could put a water bed in them.
In my time as a bus driver I’ve known of several bus fires where none of which were caused by the fuel, being CNG or diesel. In all cases it was a coolant circuit leak dripping onto hot exhaust components causing the hydrocarbons in the coolant to burst into flame! Scary shit indeed.
Interesting you mention coolant fire, i had fire on an 800ton mining excavator (yes 800 TONS). Just prior to the fire i could smell strong smell of hot coolant. Went down to the engine bays to investigate (twin engine) and found a blue purple flame burning in the v of the engine, right below a turbocharger. Coolant line on turbo had failed and the vapours from coolant had ignited. Was able to put it out with an extinguisher, and the mechanics argied that i only had a coolant leak and it could never had a fire. Next day it happened again. On investigation it was determined that the glycol in coolant, the vapours could ignite when super heated (coolant fitting spraying coolant in a mist under pressure over the turbo)
@@HighTowerAU yep, I’ve seen the same colour fire on a CNG bus before it burned to a crisp. The bus in question was found to have had a coolant line failure which ignited on the hot exhaust, caught the fibreglass body panels and raced away uncontrollably. When the fire got into the roof the gas cylinders started venting via a safety pressure release and gouts of burning gas shot out thirty feet long!
This video raises a whole new set of thought processes in my mind. Thank you so much for this content, I have not seen anything so well structured about this subject. I live close to Liverpool and I had not realised the implications of the fire in the car park there. Unfortunately, the uk government are not too good at learning lessons, for example, the Grenfell Tower fire.
Brilliant presentation. We are now being lied to even about car fires that need to be exposed so we are aware of how to reduce the overall damage. To people and property. Good advice given.
Maybe an after effect of the Grenfell fire which is costing property developers and flat-owners so much £££ (it should be just the property magnates paying as their design error just like the error in no sprinklers at luton, but not in this world)
The Landrover SE Luton, in Flame Red metallic, furnace orange leather interior. Options included cold weather external feet warmers, an explosive drop down escape function (for quick exit from car parks) and a self disposal function when you complete a journey. 😄
No ejection seat?
😂😂😂😂
Getting diesel to burn is like getting the missus m...st , you have to try really hard with a lot of pressure
@voltare2amstereo you're doing it wrong, I had no problem.
I am a retired electrical engineer, and I love your sense of humor. Every point you make is true. The customers always try to cut corners. I once built a 2 million BTU tank heater. When I pointed out that they needed a level switch for the tank they declined the extra 2563 dollars. Guess what three days after signing off on the job. Some moron forgot to check the tank. It melted in around 6 mins. So back we came as they paid us to remove the wreckage. And replace the burners, tank, and add a level switch. They will not change anything till lots of people die.
The Range Rover is not even parked in a bay so the driver must have been in the car when the fire started.
Excellent analysis. Regarding sprinklers, they are installed in underground car parks but never to open , above ground facilities. It's about saving lives so to remove smoke to assist in people finding exits to the location before suffocating & not saving cars. After all, cars are insured. No firefighter in modern times will risk even a minor cut to stop a property fire. They are issued with large bags of popcorn & dvd players in the trucks while they wait for the fire to burn out
If you look at the tail-lights, it comes from a Range Rover Sport which is a hybrid.
Spot on with your analysis there, in fact an eye witness that appeared on British TV shortly after the fire said he'd seen a "JET" of flame emitting from the vehicle which set fire to neighbouring vehicles. Needless to say his testimony has never been aired since to my knowledge. This stinks of EV technology. The raft of insurance claims and counter claims is likely to drag on for years.
Except John was entirely wrong in his assessments - it's now confirmed a diesel caused the accident
@@PowerOn- The cause is irrelevant the fire loading due to the presence of EV's which burn at 2500 degrees C would be the cause of collapse. Such high temp would cause the concrete to fail and the steel re-enforcement to expand, a common cause of collapse. This will happen again, You cannot have a chemical incident occurring on this regular basis
Another factor (not related specifically to EVs) that has been identified in previous multi-storey car park fires is the increasing numbers of very large vehicles especially SUVs. The problem here is not just their weight, but the large amount of fuel and combustibles they contain. When many of these car parks were designed, cars were much smaller and lighter, the flammable load was much lower. They were never designed to cope with the fire risk we have now. This was becoming a problem before EVs, but EVs can only make it much worse.
A big issue in a previous car park fire in Liverpool in 2018, which was started by a 15-year-old Range Rover (when are we going to ban these?), is that modern car parks are designed to allow good drainage. Standing water is bad for safety, both car stopping time and that of peds. The floors are therefore slightly tilted and drainage channels take water away. All good in theory but once you have a multiple vehicle fire and burning fuel runs down the surfaces and drains and spreads to other vehicles and into the drain. The petrol/diesel tanks on modern vehicles are usually plastic and only need to sustain flame for 2 minutes before failure to meet regulations, so it doesn't take much to set the next car alight. It was noted a particular issue was most of the drainage system was PVC piping which quickly gave way under fire conditions as well, so the burning fuel going down the drain spreads to other floors that way. Older garages tended to use iron/steel piping which survives much longer. In the Liverpool fire, 1500 cars were destroyed.
The car park was almost brand new, 4 years old if you listen to the first 10 seconds of the video.
@@Titan6040
The video looks more like a hybrid and they are using diesel side to hide the fact.
@@blaylum His explanation was spot on.
Take a 1000 Ford Focus in a car park. Total weight is 1400 metric tonnes.
Now 1000 EV6. Total 2200.
So an extra 800 metric tonnes.
You still happy that a 20 year carpark is able to handle the extra weight of the new large EV,s and SUV,s?
I think (rather like the lab leak theory) when authorities are overly anxious to impose a narrative & suppress obvious questions, then you have to be suspicious. If the exact make a model of a car which has caused a fire remains mysterious, & is not immediately clarified then you've got to ask why? Transparency in a democracy should be the default - when it's not, it's time to get curious.
Does that apply to the covid jab. Sorry vaccine.
When the news broke of this fire and the message was over the top to say its a diesel a few colleagues and myself surmised it was more than likely a diesel hybrid that went up. When I saw the tail lights you showed I immediately thought it was a Range Rover Sport as they did do a diesel hybrid but was unaware of a diesel Evoque hybrid at the age of that tail light design.
The number plate, visible in some photos and videos is E10 EFL, registered to a red 2014 Range Rover Sport TDV6 with a diesel engine.
The problem with EV's isn't necessarily their risk of catching fire, although that may be an issue in the future, it's the way they burn. The intense flame jet that comes from the battery once burning, greatly increases fire spread, which is particularly an issue when many of them are parked closely to each other, especially when in a roofed enclosure like a multistorey carpark. Factor in that EV's are also particularly large, means their total fire loading is also much more.
And that is worse than the plastic fuel tank rupturing and spreading burning liquids everywhere? Fires in car parks that are full are always going to be sh*t shows regardless of the fuel type of the vehicles.
@jonathanbuzzard1376 where did I say it was worse, you're arguing a claim I haven't made? But now you mention it, at least a running fuel fire can be extinguished with foan, a runaway EVB fire cannot be extinguished with standard fireground media.
@@jonathanbuzzard1376BS. EVs are rolling bombs. They will randomly combust or explode. It's not a question of if, just when. Cars, scooters, bikes - doesn't matter. Same for those crap smartphones, and anything else powered by Lithium batteries.
@@wombatdk ICE cars will randomly combust too. I am happy to admit that the data suggests the rate is higher in EV's than ICE (it's not orders of magnitude higher either) but to suggest that it is zero in ICE vehicles is complete nonsense.
@@wombatdk So how about the newer LFP batteries, now being used in some makes of EV? These batteries have zero thermal runaway characteristics. The manufacturers have tested them by driving steel spikes through them.
One question - firefighters around the world have countless decades of controlling and extinguishing vehicle fires, they do it every day, they have the experience, the equipment and the techniques to do so. Why then could they not extinguish a 'diesel fire'? It's impossible to accept that with 15 fire trucks and over 100 firefighters they were all standing around with their finger up their rear ends wondering why this fire could not be dealt with - Quite the opposite, I am certain they were doing ALL they could possibily do. Along with the pile of burnt out cars there is also a massive pile of BS to be cleared up.
*crickets*. Please answer this, EV-bots.
Added to your report. 4 firefighters and one security guard were hospitalised due to fume inhalation.
Hi John I live about 30 miles from Luton Airport and what we are hearing from friends who live close by it turns out they are reporting white grey ish smoke coming from the car park so I think you are right m8 it must have been a hybrid or pure electric car all the best John
2014 Pure Electric Range Rover does not exist. Stop with insane assumption.
DVLA site shows a pure diesel with the reg of the vehicle.
Time has shown your comment to be dead wrong. It was a Range Rover and no EVs were involved.
John Cadogan's analysis of the situation is very well considered. I am persuaded that the balance of probabilities, indicates that the battery suffered a thermal runaway, just as the car was being parked. The owner hadn't even got as far as switching the lights off. The absence of black smoke discounts uncontrolled combustion of diesel fuel. A Li-ion battery contains enough oxidant to support a furious rate of combustion.
Even if it’s a hybrid, Evoque’s are MHEVs with tiny batteries - 0.2kwh. They’ll burn if you get them hot enough, just like diesel will. And as for the black smoke, have you seen the Red Arrows? Know how they generate their smoke trails? By spraying diesel fuel into their exhaust. That’s white smoke by the way, so just perhaps that white smoke was unburnt diesel fuel hitting a hot surface - on its way to burning, of course.
John is an armchair sportsman with degrees in theory.
Nothing more.
I know you, I know you work for Rover @@oldgit15
quite a lot of oxygen available at red arrows speed, not so much in a carpark@@oldgit15
Already been shown to be a diesel. 2014 RR sport diesel V6, reg E10EFL. not a hybrid, no lithium ion battery.
Probably one of the best bits of automotive journalism I've heard or read for years. Excellent work there. Legend.
John, that car park was built from new as part of the airport expansion project. I even did some electrical testing at the site office during its construction. Yes, how can you believe that no fire suppression system was included? Well as usual,done on the cheap at a mere 20 million bucks! Looks like another twin town with shitsville. I'm just watching your fantastic video having been working at Lu ' ton today and that's how I'm going to spell it and pronounce it from now on. Just beautiful mate. It sounds so exotic 😂
Ha ha yeah. I grew up in Luton many years ago before it was trashed and was quite tickled by his new frenchy play on the name. 🤣 I’m appalled at what happened at the airport though and loved this explanation. It really does seem like a cover up of the events from what I hear.
A brand new £20million car park with no sprinklers.
I was a fuel engineer for the UK MOD I've demonstrated how difficult it is to ignite diesel. Then when you can ignite it you get a yellow flame and impenetrably thick smoke.
Friend of mine suffered a moving car fire - fortunately he saw the smoke/flames in the rear view mirror (mid-engine car), told the passenger to "take his seat belt off, and unlock the door. Then when he stopped the car, bail out and run, don't look back until you're well clear". They both survived, likely due to his cool headedness under pressure - the car not so much!
From what I heard from another YTer it was labeled as "an EV fire burned down a car park" in the early hours of it happening and only changed to "a diesel fire" a few hours later. He was pretty radical then saying EV sells are now dead in the UK.
And people aren't stupid, even if a diesel started it, the presence of EVs made it thousand times worse.The starting point doesn't matters that much than what helped it become uncontrolable. It's like with furnitures and ornament in hotels, ships, planes,... they aren't easily flammable nowaday because you don't want places were people are packed to become deathtraps in seconds.
LPG car owners face restrictions when parking in car parks for a reason, and I won't be surprise if EVs faces some restriction of thi nature in the future.
I suggest you don't keep an ev phone in your pocket, because it's been proven to be dangerous. Diesel phone for me!
Gasoline made it uncontrollable.
From an antidepressant to the best battery ever to a pyro's dream...
It's been nice getting to know the third lightest element but I kind of hope we run out or move on before it gets spread over us like peanut butter.
@@globalist1990say what you rly mean and stop speaking in tongues
Ah another shill...
Would not normally watch a 27mim video unless it was about wildlife, but this was an exception, loved the technical and fact along with the humour and the scathing sarcasm aimed at the bureaucrats. Keep up the sterling work, retired UK firefighter 🚒
John, great video. This was also covered by "geoff buys cars" and he did the forensics on the car rear lights and concludes it is a RR Sport diesel hybrid and as the fire is coming from left lower rear wheel arch supports this as this is where RR puts the battery. He also noted that RR Evoque have a track record of self igniting (diesel). which still happens on new cars despite a recall. It appears it is to do with the dpf filter regenerating and setting the engine bay on fire. He also showed a Tesla dealership in France , which has quickly removed from the person who posted (probably told too by Electric Jesus) and I counted at least 10 model 3 wiped out to a skeletons. No ICE cars in sight , which is annoying as they can't be blamed and the building looked fully intact. Luton and "Lie" just match perfectly. It was news to me that Evoques and other Range Rovers have a fire issue, turning into the Ford f150 issue in the 80's. Not a Range Rover fan (or JLR) but they still sell well here in the UK, not sure were the money comes from as they expensive.
The Tesla site (in Frankfurt Germany) was arson.
If somebody tells you it's in France you're not going to find much when you Google.
The red 2014 Range Rover Sport (non hybrid) diesel E10 EFL (video of the front of the car is available) that started it all had 84,000 miles and passed it's most recent MOT.
Funny that the cars reg proves it's a 2014 3 liter...
@@thesynaesthesiac1839. Please post the rego #, and the source, because it sure doesnt look like a 2013 model ?
In Britain it is common for people to buy an 'old' registration number and put them on their car because the old reg contains their initials or attempts to spell their name. (yawn...)
@@hunchanchoc8418 and in Britain if you have the reg number you can look up whether the car has an MOT, whether it's taxed etc and what make and model it is. If you pay you can get mileage and any MOT advisories over the years.
E10 EFL is a red 2014 Range Rover Sport 3.0 diesel (non hybrid) with 84,000 miles at it's last MOT.
I was watching this on my phone while waiting in my car for my wife to buy another special handbag at a very large shopping centre today.
I was parked on the lower level of a 2 storey under ground car park which is under the multistorey shopping complex.
Started taking note of the single exit that went through the upper level carpark and the type of cars parked around me. Its hard to tell which ones are hybrids etc. but I could see at least 3 Teslas from where I was sitting. And then a Tesla decided to park next to me. By this time I getting a little anxious as I recalled seeing a couple of Range Rovers and a near new Discovery on my way in.
The description of the wonderful features of her new handbag when she finally returned fell on deaf ears as I navigated our way out of the labyrinth as rapidly as safely possible and resumed breathing normally when we emerged in to sunshine and fresh air.
The only compensating factor in comparison with the Luton disaster was the fact that this carpark is fitted out with a sprinkler sytem. However if I venture back to that consumerism complex I'll be using the outside carparks in future.
Sooner or later the holes in the swiss cheese of EV engineering design flaws will line up with the lack of regulatory controls and the physical inadequacies of constructed buildings and a major loss of life event will occur.
Still though, there are handbags.....and 'handbags'.
Underground car parks must have sprinkler systems fitted according to building regs, which are enforceable by law.
@@BrianMorrison Yes as a retired Building Surveyor I am fully aware of that. However given the nature of BEV fires I wouldn't be relying on a sprinkler system to either allow safe passage out of there or to protect the structural integrity of the building.
Current building standards are inadequate in this situation and there are many in the built environment that don't meet even that low benchmark which can be altered by "fire engineers" to accommodate design and in some cases budgetary considerations.
The rapid introduction of a new transport system without mitigating all the risk factors and developing regulatory control for the protection of people and property is irresponsible.
However, as in the past little will change until events force politicians to act.
@@willpeony5534 That's very true but their relative status can change rapidly and even the most (very ) expensive can be left sitting on the shelf (they don't get lonely) when a new "must have" comes to light.
I do it with tools but that's different as I actually use them sometimes for practical purposes.
@@andrewwatson5360 I do it with swords ...... the problem began when I bought my first one. Like tools, there is no "one for every job". I was kidding about the handbags by the way, that's just marketing.
Very good and useful analysis... too many large corps are trying to divert our reasoning to their own benefit.. we need people like yourself that is not trying to gaslight. Thank you.
Funny I live 30 miles from Luton Airport and it takes an Aussie some 12,000 miles away to give me the best assessment of the event. Thanks Mate, like the channel and may come back.
Except John was entirely wrong in his assessments - it's now confirmed a diesel caused the accident
the reg was E10 EFL, a red 2014 Range Rover diesel
Comments on other sites have mentioned a huge fire in a Liverpool car park back in 2017/18 which caused massive destruction. It started with a diesel SUV - one of the JLR products.
The flammability of diesel is not a primary issue, , since vehicle fires usually start with electrical faults, oil/hydraulic fluid/fuel leaking on to hot turbos/exhausts, etc.. Once the vehicle is alight, it will burn whatever the fuel/power source.
Liverpool's fire was started by an L322 Range Rover from the looks, either that or Classic it was one of the boxier models.
People have incorrectly stated a burned out Discovery Series 1, started it but it was sadly just a victim.
Personal number plate.....older number Series on later vehicle ?
@settertwo A 2014 diesel only range rover. Read some other articles, view the front on video all freely available.
@@Christian-ut5umDo an internet search on E10EFL. LUTON
Brilliant analysis John, big respect from the UK 🇬🇧
When I was an apprentice the instructor asked us what steps we would take if were involved in a big fire. The majority of use favoured long strides al’ la Usain Bolt
My venture from Luton was made all the smoother by a reliable parking service. The straightforward booking, competitive rates, and secure, accessible spots were exactly what I needed. The staff were on the ball, providing swift and courteous service. Coming back to my car in the same condition I left it was the reassurance I needed. For seamless parking at Luton, EzyBook is a solid choice.
Some of my experiences says diesel doesn’t ignite like that, but a tiny 5000 mAh Remote Control car Lipo battery sure has a rather big white flash bang smoke fire affair.
Your analysis is spot on regarding engine running (lights on) 12v operational, the lipo location on the drivers front and the flash bang would be how I would imagine how a full size car lipo would go poo poo.
Love your stuff John, keep up the good reporting.
When charging lipo batteries we put them in lipo bags in case of problems .
EV batteries aren’t LIPO.
There's very little difference between lipo and li-ion, same basic chemistry in fact from a combustion point of view.
This was a great vid , informative and intelligent and put across in a typical Aussie fashion ,up front no cobblers and in such a way that even a "just the basics " guy like me can understand everything you said .Thanks for this mate I subscribed because I think I will learn a lot from you .
Yep, good ta see more oz vids.
From the picture it is possible that the vehicle that ignited was behind the Range Rover. Also, even if it was caused by a diesel car, then how many electric cars ignited as a result of the heat?
They say the registration number is E10 EFL which is a diesel Range Rover.
Does the registration plate in that video contain 6 digits or is it a much shorter cherished number?
That interview and the comments made by the fire officer just smacks of being a cover up. Any other major fire that takes place over here in the UK, the investigation takes weeks if not months to complete. It is rather strange that this guy can state within hours of the fire that the cause was a diesel vehicle. Very few car parks over here in blighty have sprinkler systems, vandalism is the main reason given for this .
You think it's strange that the fire fighter could see the car that started the fire? Or that he knows/thinks that it is not a hybrid or EV is the strange part?
They had the car, the registration on camera. It did not need a massive investigation.
@MrGundawindy all I will say is that diesel cars do not explode like that, you can throw a match into a bucket of diesel and the match will go out.
@@colin4850 I'm not sure how that affects the ability of the firefighter to determine that the vehicle is solely powered by diesel and that the vehicle in qestion doesn't have any traction batteries. maybe you should just wait for the investigation report before you stock up on alfoil to make your hats.
@@colin4850 simplification, now put it in a pressurised or atomised situation and behaviour changes. It's a fuel for combustion.
In over 40 years of driving and car ownership I've had only one vehicle burst into flames. Yes, it was a series 3 land rover. It had only 4 fuses, and, impressively, none of them blew even though the wiring loom was on fire. Rover have never been good in this area
You sum that up SO well! Thanks for posting.
and how was such a building allowed to be built without automatic sprinklers? thats a crime in itself
The only thing I could imagine besides the DPF on a Diesel would be a runaway Turbo Diesel, but it would be a remarkable accomplishment if Range Rover could manage this on a modern car in urban british traffic.
I also found the part where "a sprinkler system could have helped" amazing. It's almost as if those things were made for such cases.
While writing this, I got told that not far away from here (central Germany) a Train was burning and guess what was on it... Defenders.
As an Ex mechanic who worked on those POS as an apprentice, nothing about Landrover would shock me except they eventually build a decent vehicle.
The fire service said the car park was not fitted with sprinklers. It is thought the fire started with a diesel-powered vehicle "and then that fire has quickly and rapidly spread", said Andrew Hopkinson, Bedfordshire's chief fire officer
They are talking rubbish.
quickly and rapidly, hmm, even speedily, expeditiously, and hastily
@@sempereadem54eadem64 Sure they are. What do the Fire Service know about fires, eh?
@@Brian-om2hh - Apparently they know damned little if they can’t put out a diesel fire …
One of the most common ways (although still a rare event) that diesel causes a fire in a vehicle's engine compartment is if you spring a leak in your fuel system on the high pressure side of the injection pump & it sprays a fine mist of fuel directly onto the hot exhaust manifold, but the vehicles engine obviously has to be running for this to occur.
I had that happen on a HGV and no fire. Unless there is a flame or fairly continuous spark it will not catch.
@@jessh5310 - Nope, all you need is a heat source that is at a higher temperature than the flash point of diesel, & the exhaust manifold temp gets way higher than the flashpoint of diesel, especially atomized diesel.
Otherwise a diesel engine simply wouldn't work, as diesel is combusted on contact with the compressed heated air in the cylinder that is higher than the flashpoint of diesel.
No spark or flame required in a diesel engine buddy.
By the way, i'm a marine engineer with more than 25 years experience, with several advanced marine firefighting courses under my belt.
@@andrewstewart9263 that's strange, I had a fuel filter on my 6.7 diesel go out located on the top rear of the engine that leaked diesel all over the engine and exhaust on the highway for approximately an hour and no fire.
@@kenneth9874 - Dunno, but all i can say for sure, is that for whatever reason, one or more of the conditions required for that diesel to combust wasn't met.
Luckily i've never experienced a fire because of diesel being injected onto a hot manifold, but i do know other engineers that have, & we are taught in marine firefighting school that this very scenario is indeed a fire hazard which has been the cause of many engine room fire incidents on vessels in the past.
@@andrewstewart9263 I don't know either but I do know that had it been gasoline it wouldn't have been nice .
It's been confirmed by the vehicle registration and the DVLA register that the vehicle concerned was a straight TDV6 i.e. it was NOT a hybrid or EV. As someone who lives quite local to Luton I can see no reason whatsoever why Bedfordshire FRS would do anything other than report the facts to quell the speculation around the cause of the fire. They certainly have no reason to be shilling for the EV industry or anyone else, as they have a statutory duty with regard to fire safety and prevention. I'm not quite sure why so many 'experts' from half way around the world think they have a better insight into what happened than the people who actually dealt with the fire on site. So can we please stop with all the ludicrous conspiracy theories.
its a evoque hybrid , and the battery is sittuated near the left wheel , where it seems to be venting from
Geoff Buys Cars did an interesting video on identifying the type of Range Rover in the photo. He also discussed the DPF being a possible cause of the fire or a hybrid's battery.
my friends 2015 defender popped off its diesel return pipe on the motorway, it removed all the underseal before he noticed his fuel dropping fast, to add insult, he went to the coast a few weeks later to find the head of the dealership tasked with repair, using it to launch his boat, with no underseal.
He actually claimed he was using the salt to prepare it for the undersealing.
😮
I live just 10 miles from this Airport and I suspect this car park next to the front door of the Airport was probably full of EV's as it's only the wealthy that could afford to park there. I'm not sure sprinklers would have much effect as my understanding the amount of water it takes to extinguish an EV is about 10 times that of a regular combustion engine. Thanks John for your informative and entertaining video.
Was thinking the same about the sprinkler system. You can also just make out that the number plate is a private one. If there is any security entry video to the car park the number plate will give the game away right away.
No EV that was plugged it caught fire while charging. These Hybrid diesel Range Rovers have been recalled for the same reason it caught fire. - Range Rover Hybrid Power: 3.0-litre straight-six Ingenium diesel engines features 48V Mild Hybrid Electric Vehicle (MHEV) The Hybrid battery on those are situated on the N/S
Sprinklers may not extinguish a burning EV, but they would dramatically reduce the spread of fire from one car to another.
@@tardeliesmagic MHEVs can’t be plugged in. So there’s that.
I parked at Luton the other week. That car park was almost £200 for 10 days - I parked off site and took a shuttle bus for half that cost. So it's not going to be cheap cars in there.
My neighbour once used a disposable bbq and because he was a bit ocd about his garden he has disposed of it in his rubbish bin, at about 3am the front of the semi detached house and 2 petrol cars ware lit, the fire brigade was called and i mamaged to safely move my cars to a safe place, there was no explosion and it took the fire brigade about 15 minutes to put it out once they arrived, it was the plastic rubbish bins that caused the fire to spread not the cars.
My point is that even if petrol/diesel cars catch fire they are easy to put out and the fire is more localised so they are less likely to affect other stuff.
I've messed with lipo batteries for 20 years now in rc planes and in that time I had a fire which was due to electronic speed controller getting wet and shorting out the battery,
Was on a lake and looked like a bomb had gone off, it was a 1.3ah 3 cell battery,
been super careful with them since lol, the thought of sitting in a cage on top of one scares me.
Hi John, I am somewhat dubious about this fire, I mean I can't recall such a thing in my lifetime. Bottom line is, if it was a diesel fire how come the fire brigade didn't do their thing? EV's must be responsible if not for the ignition event, then certainly for 5he steelwork going all wobbly, and obvious resulting collapse. EV's (even if they aren't responsible on this occasion) shouldn't be allowed to charge up in such places. Drive in tanks that can instantly be flooded with thousands of liters of chilled brine might be the only safe option in built up areas.
I saw news of plenty of mass car fires in the previous century I.e. 1970-1999. There weren't many EV's around, other than milk floats.
There's literally a video of the discovery on fire , the Liverpool car park and plenty of other car park fires before EV's were around show that these things happen , or maybe its a conspiracy and they were all electrified DeLoreans time traveling ??
Why "must" Ev's be responsible? Was the car park magically free of petrol vehicles on this occasion? If an EV is set on fire by a burning ICE vehicle why does the EV become responsible? I suspect you have never seen what happens to steel work in a large hydrocarbon fire. Steel will bend quite happily without a lithium ion battery fire.
These have been recalled for the same reason it caught fire. - Range Rover Hybrid Power: 3.0-litre straight-six Ingenium diesel engines features 48V Mild Hybrid Electric Vehicle (MHEV) Soon carparks ferries,trains etc will ban EVs
But the Norwegian Ferry Company spent the money and installed the briner system.
They will take EVs anywhere because they feel (and can prove) that their company has the possibility of a fire and the means to fight it......under control.
Commercial gold mine as a just reward for investing in the right fire fighting gear at the right time.
@@tardeliesmagic
Unless they are out of the country and not heard the news, surely they must know who the owner is.
They will surely be putting in an insurance claim for the vehicle. The details of what the vehicle is will then be known. Also, if the VIN number plate is still readable, that will also reveal the vehicle details.
I'm pro eV but totally agree with your observations and prognosis.
Great advice at the end and agree that it should be broadcast as a PSA.
Thanks John, a brilliant commentary along with good and vital knowledge to stay alive by.
The car's registration number is E10EFL, registered to a Range Rover Sport Diesel. Not a hybrid.
Nicely put John. Humans will mostly wait till it's very late before implementing change. The harnessing of electricity and the advent of aviation are two notable examples. In their respective times, many people died and the dangers seems insurmountable. Both are now very safe when you consider the ingredients that are going into the mixing bowl. Also, why does Range Rover appear to leave the validation of their new technologies to their customers?
Really interesting video, well thought out and eloquently presented, appreciate it.
Great episode John. Very much appreciated the scathing, but hilarious criticism of a subject that concerns itself, not just with a vehicle producer, but how politics and media appears to have become joined at the hip these days. As for the term, External Combustion Vehicles...still LMAO! A new fan🤣