Massive EV cement truck fire: official 'explanation' versus the facts | Auto Expert John Cadogan
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 18 дек 2023
- Save thousands on any new car (Australia-only): autoexpert.com.au/contact
OLIGHT DISCOUNT! (Awesome torches.)
bit.ly/3zF5hCQ
12% off: Use code AEJC
VEVOR DISCOUNT! (Industrial & DIY tools at great prices.)
s.vevor.com/bfQqSa
Get 5% off with code VVSALES
BLUETTI DISCOUNT! (Portable 240-volt power & power failure protection.)
www.bluettipower.com.au/?ref=...
Discount codes here: autoexpert.com.au/bluetti
Help support my independent reporting, securely, via Patreon: www.patreon.com/user?u=54778969
Podcast (audio-only version, for listening in the car, etc.): anchor.fm/autoexpert
Save thousands on any new car (Australia-only): autoexpert.com.au/contact
AutoExpert discount roadside assistance package:
247roadservices.com.au/autoex...
Did you like this report? You can help support the channel, securely via PayPal: www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr... 
Авто/Мото
It's not a fire, it's a special unscheduled rapid oxidation event
Haha. That's it! Just call it a different name and all the numptys are happy it is not a fire!
Ha ha reminds me of crocodile Dundee...Diesel fire?...that's not a fire. This EV truck - now THAT's a fire.
I put it to you, that this truck is on fire!
No its not, its just a thermal event
A single cell malfunction. Phew, that's good I thought it might have been an electrical fire.
@@rogerpearson9081 SpaceX calls them a rapid unexpected disassembly - or as most of us would call an explosion!
As a retired driver with a few million kilometres of experience behind me, I can say the following.
Any truck that pulls a large load uphill will raise the temperature of the engine and only an additional amount of cooling system keeps it from overheating. On a flat road, a smaller amount of coolant is needed to pass through the engine than on hills. Then the thermostat comes into effect, which is maximally open and allows the maximum circulation of the liquid, and the fan works at the highest revolutions to draw the maximum volume of air through the radiator in order to cool the liquid. Most trucks have two thermostats next to each other in the same housing. On days when the outside temperature is 40 degrees C, it will be necessary to use a lower gear to relieve the engine. When you have reached the top of the hill, in this case the top of the bridge, there is usually a downhill, down which we manage to cool the engine. This is not the case with electric vehicles, because kinetic energy is used on the downhill to charge the batteries, where overheating occurs again. And that's where the friends from Janus&company failed. If they want to play with trucks, they should hire someone who understands trucks.
Great point about the regen.
I’d never really thought about the strain on the battery in those circumstances.
QUBE cart sugarcane product. That's got me a little concerned....
That is a factor I didn't think of.
Have we had a Tesla truck catch fire? Err no. Okay Janus has had a blow out just like SpaceX has. You can only test soo much until you try it out for real, they will learn from this. Just like all the diesel trucks that catch fire every year, yawn, yawn, but they still haven't sorted diesel burnouts out in over 100 years have they?
Typical Aussie Gob, to enjoy someone's difficulties who is trying to do good and improve life for everyone, just rush in and give them a kicking, while they are on the deck.! After all you cheat at cricket, so what else would we expect? That's why we sent you to Australia in the first place! Hahaha.
Tesla have always had properly cooled batteries, so there new trucks will have proper thermal management... Unlike the Janus swap and go 330kw twin packs, that are air cooled... @@jcfallows
Another factor that John can add to his statistical analysis of the EV vs diesel truck fire probability is the TOTAL MILES ACCUMULATED. Real trucks doing real jobs on a daily basis will accumulate 100k-160k km in a year's time. This prototype EV was probably only making short test runs or photo op appearances and was being obsessively pampered with the best maintenance every day.
I think saying "the best maintenance" is a stretch, any day... lol. Since the idiots didn't take the battery pack out of service, even with their 3 weeks of warming.
I do agree it was a photo op, promo truck.
That's a point, right enough... I wonder what the range is, loaded with cement, obviously without the bonfire, on one of these things. (Actually, not builder's guestimate).
Yes, that is correct - the statistical analysis must include the total exposure (miles covered). One other point that I see omitted is the size of the fire and the final state of the vehicle after the fire. A small engine compartment fire (from a leaky fuel rail or fuel pump) that is quickly and easily extinguished with a hand fire extinguisher gets ranked as a "diesel-powered truck fire" in the column even though it might be relatively insignificant in comparison to the EV-powered fires under discussion.
@@1973retrorabbit I think that "three weeks of warning" was only with the benefit of hindsight, when they realised what they'd missed. There were clearly npo alerts from the BMS until the one the driver got, just before the fire.
There were 1000 or so cells per pack. I thought there were more than one pack in that truck.
@@1973retrorabbit They didn't have three weeks of warning; they had three weeks of data variance and didn't know what to do with it. Given the potential impact of an incident, methinks the nothing they did was probably not the right thing to do. Stress-to-failure is a viable destructive test, but those are usually done in a controlled environment with adequate safety precautions, not on a public highway . . . in a photo-op truck! 😀
Given these battery "packs" are made up of thousands of smaller cells, it only takes a manufacturing defect in one of them to cause this sort of catastrophic failure. I think we've found the EV eqivalent of the timing chain.
Reminds me of a diesel runaway, same idea of a failure causing a catastrophic positive feedback loop to form. At least with a diesel you can put an emergency cutoff valve on the air intake to mitigate it though, or if you're brave block the intake manually.
Rubber timing belt ,ala Porsche,Vauhall slant four etc etc etc .
@@treelineresearch3387 Stuff it in the lowest gear and dump the clutch. After that get out and watch the fireworks
Yes but even with a timing belt being a weak point there is non-interference engines. So if the belt does break it still doesn't cause a catastrophic engine failure. At worst it just leaves you with a stalled engine on the side of the road. Pop a new belt on and off you go! Also Timing chains are super stout. I have never to this day have had an engine failure due to timing chain failure. And like I mentioned before there is non-interference engine designs.
Don't recall a timing chain failure ever burning the car and house to the ground 🤣🤣🤣
Something that is more than a little scary is that the if the truck caught fire 8 minutes later in the drive, it would have potentially been in the Burnley Tunnel. Perfect place to let it burn itself out for 80 minutes! Even if the tunnel didn't get destroyed, it would have made so much damage, the tunnel would be closed for repairs for many months, and we all know how much spare capacity the Melbourne road network has 🙂
Some tunnels restrict propane, electric restrictions next? A ship and load of cars was lost due to battery fires.
Correct. Tunnels do not allow placarded (hazardous) loads. However there seems no restrictions for powerplant.. evs drive thru all the time.
Also rather fortunately, cement Australia trucks get off at Todd road and head around Lorimer, not using the tunnels.. not to say other companies with similar trucks don't use them...
These EV fires are I believe in the 2000 to 4000 F range, so I would say, the tunnel would have been destroyed.
@@DarrenCoull Yeah 2 miles of tunnel! 🤒😵💫🤢🤮! Toxic cobalt gas & 2,500°C fire & explosions! Imagine a small ev car next to the bus if it's battery exploded in the tunnel! The blast & the heat might set the ev car's battery on fire! The mind boggles at the potential danger & simultaneous ignorance of that danger! As I've said before, more people are gonna have to die before they stop this ridiculous experiment.
Crumbs - imagine what would have happened if TWO cells had failed!
It may have been a nuclear explosion 🔥
Offshore tinker you gave me a good laugh. Glad my mouth wasn't full of coffee when I read your comment.
HAHA! You're hilarious!
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Two did fail. Then 3, 4,5...
All the way to 1050 cells.
The truck driver gets a message warning him that the battery pack is having issues. And his plan of attack is to exit the vehicle and attempt to control it with a fire extinguisher. Sounds a bit like the hull monitoring system on the Titan submersible. It warns you that things are going bad at a point in time when your goose is already cooked.
Like the 'rearview mirror' method of problem solving. Everything looks great after the fact.
And then the driver gets hit with a fine for answering a text message while driving. Fun for everyone!
Kinda reminds me of the old 'safe and effective' line from about 2-3 years back. It's always safe when you have a vested interest.
Yup, and officialdom is still not 'fessing up to that disaster of modern techthink.
If they knew for a number of weeks that there was a dangerous problem with that cell and didn't fix it, then wouldn't they have been liable for any property or personal damage that a third party may have suffered?
given the number of fires that are now occurring (and the corresponding issues with insurance) it is foreseeable that a battery pack will catch fire - the simple fact that they adopted the risky practice of using batteries may be sufficient to make them liable PLUS there is a legal doctrine that if you allow a fire to escape your property you are likely to be liable in any event.
In the short term, no, because EVs are a protected species. Nothing will be done. Long term the incidents will stack up, and it will reach breaking point when we have some kind of high casualty event caused by an EV. A likely scenario I see is an underground car park with multiple EVs charging, or a tunnel of some sort. Another possibility is a apartment block car park or a hotel.
Safety rules are written in blood. Our leadership have demonstrated so far that they are willfully ignoring the risks, and have zero interest in any kind of standards, regulations or even specific emergency responses for EVs, because to do so would be to admit there are risks with EVs, which isn't good PR for the EV program. So yes, people have to die before this giant experiment gets any serious scrutiny. And one person here another there, sucks for them, it will be swept under the rug. It will take a very public event, maybe several, where lots of people are killed or injured for anything to be done about safety or accountability.
aka tombstone engineering @@Patrick-857
These clowns are clearly backed by the powers at be. There's clearly an agenda to push for an EV world at all costs. Especially public safety.
There's monitoring sofware and data logging but no battery log analyst on the payroll, it seems. So, why even log?
I believe that Cement Australia have grounded all these EV trucks
I guess that explains it all.
They've cemented their position
Trouble is, they're still dangerous even if parked up.
Grounding an electrical device can solve some problems.....
The enormous waste of using the earths rare materials for EV’s will come back to haunt future generations…criminally insane in my view
I ask?
How exactly will battery cars solve your suggest issues? (climate)
I fail to see how it is better. Burning more fossil fuel mining minerals for battery that don't make energy and never will!
And in many cases get energy from fossil fuel (Australia 75%)
Even if you didn't use massive amounts of fossil fuel wining the minerals, cars represent 8% of CO2 emissions.
Far from a solution.
@@0Aus Ev’s are less friendly to environment…but just to tell you….co2 is not an issue, and warming is normal out of an ice age, and the warming they fuss about is not even proven
As to "Burning more fossil fuel mining minerals for battery that don't make energy and never will!", you do understand that's a straw man argument? No-one is claiming that batteries make energy, the point is with significant Renewable Electric supplies, EV's deliver a net carbon benefit.
You seem to be ignoring that there is a massive energy cost in mining, transport, refining, distribution and retailing of transport fossil fuels. And also that burning petrochemicals also drives massive energy and financial costs from health care, air, water and ground pollution.
This causes increased carbon costs from infrastructure maintenance, loss of agricultural productivity from acid rain and changing climate patterns, added to by more extreme climate damage from hurricanes, flooding and fires.
If you look up the carbon footprint and consumption net benefit time of EV's relative to ICE, it's an average of about 5 years where there is more than 50% renewable electricity. As new batteries are increasingly more efficient this net benefit time will decrease.
Renewable energy supply fractions are growing rapidly, worldwide including Australia, and in fact many EV owners choose to buy renewable sourced electricity, driving greener supply. China's renewable electricity now powers 100% of their domestic use and they are working towards 100% for industry. New higher efficiency cells are making that goal easier. Australia has great opportunities to do similarly.
The argument that cars are a small contributor to CO2 fails. Every reduction in CO2 is important to the end goal.
@@trumpisvaccinatedsoshouldy1269 yes the strawman sales attempt The EV jockey go to. In your case it appears instead of paying attention to the point being made.
Warming planet and reason!
You speak in absolutes yet it's a theory.
If true we are told not a moment is to be wasted we must reduce fossil fuel emissions immediately!!
Is additional mining on a massive scale for lithium ect reducing? No.
As inconvenient as it is My point is sound batteries don't make energy.
Yet EV jockeys always try comparison.
Batteries don't make energy so why try comparing them with that of fossil fuels?
Battery cars will have their place they won't replace ICE any time soon as EV'S just aren't capable.
As for powering the battery cars Australia is 75% coal.
What emission reduction?
Then just for shits & giggle thermal runaway. Catch fire without warning cannot be extinguished emitting deadly toxic gas! All that for a best case reduction of 8%lol
No strawman just reality.
@@trumpisvaccinatedsoshouldy1269Co2 is plant food, the carbon cycle is essential to life, carbon had been decreasing for millions of years from 1600 parts per million to 300 parts per million. At 150 parts per million all plant life dies.
Human activity has prevented this catastrophic event.
The reason for the carbon fall?
Sea life creating shells and reefs from calcium carbonate, in other words using Co2 to make shells.
Life itself uses Co2. Carbon is the scaffolding for all biological molecules.
When the planet was at 1600 parts of Co2 per million parts the temperature did not rise in correlation to Co2 rise. The geological records on our planet show this history clearly.
The "carbon myth" is dead, peaple like yourself use myths as scaremongering.
The evidence shows the opposite of what you say regarding carbon.
"Carbon tax" is a political tool that has no basis in any evidence.
Why has the founder of greenpeace been holding presentations showing the scientific reasoning that carbon is being used as nothing more than scaremongering?
Why would the founder of greenpeace do this if there was no truth in it?
Why do people believe whatever they want irrespective of reality?
Do real research, you will find the carbon cycle is essential to life.
Another point, Co2 being at 400 parts per million is still only 0.04%
Co2 has risen 0.01% due to human activity. Hardly choking in a Venus style atmosphere is it?
0.01% rise in Co2, it is nothing.
As a member of the NSW Rural Fire Fighting Service (RFS), I have a horror scenario of an EV on a country road skidding off & being involved in a rollover or into a tree. The vehicle catches fire, our brigade turns up, and the driver is still alive but trapped inside. Our instructions are to stay away upwind & let it burn. The screaming from the person trapped would haunt me for the rest of my days.
On the plus side owner has plenty of time to think their purchase choices, but yeah that would be traumatic to firefighters alone and no one should burn like that. When i lived in apartment building i was worried if neighbor bought EV and their car burned the building down since garages were on the bottom floor.. right next to fire exit. Now on summer i'm keeping nose keen on forest fires since lots of rich people around and time will tell when their eve burns down and burns half of the post code with it on dry summer.
I work in automotive and with our Battery team and I can assure you that our cell suppliers most certainly do work with you to tell you what you can and can’t do and what to look for, how to monitor etc etc etc. Hugh Janus is clearly swimming the barrier reef with armbands, well out of their depth.
Proof the technology is not quite at the level required but conversely there are plenty of idiots who think it is 😂
EVIdiots
There are other battery manufacturers. ruclips.net/video/tzcas4D_0Ek/видео.htmlsi=NHmC3HWq327h9JtO
Lots of techeeees on other channels comparing data & loving it. 😂 Head in sand, same as governments.
Look up InvestAnswers - the king of EVdiots (watch his Tesla videos)
Proof an inexperienced Ev Builder got something wrong somewhere, probably. But not proof of any fault with the technology as such.
Thanks John. You have bought up a little mentioned possibility and that is these trucks going off in a suburban street, or a electric bus going up with a full load of school kids or the community electric van chokers with the elderly heading to the mall. It's staggering to think just how bad the situation can get with little warning.
An electric bus went off in London last week.
Excellent commentary, John. You deserve a gold medal.
This incident was far too close to where I work and live. Three weeks and they did nothing. That's disgusting.
Just a knowledgeable heads up. That "single cell" was wired in PARALLEL with many other cells. Therefore their BMS could only at best check the performance and condition of of that particular set of PARALLEL cells. It cannot ever check the performance of a single cell within that PARALLEL set.
Agreed, you know they didn't have the tech individually monitor them and the many parameters that could be monitored, even interrupt the cells not playing the game.
Yeah I also call bullshit on their ability to monitor a single cell battery on an array of over 1000. Sounds like a typical pr stunt bs coverup if you ask me.
This is the critical flaw in most lithium batteries.
I'm sure you COULD do it. But holy shart. That'd be expensive. It's not like a single cell would ever be replaced anyways so... moot.
Each pair of cells could have a temperature sensor between them. This would narrow the fault down to a single cell.
When thousands of cells are connected in series and parallel groups I would be interested to know how you can check the state and performance / behaviour of one single cell in that jungle...
The answer is that you don't.
They can and they do. By having wires going to each node they can check the voltage of each cell. They can also have a temp sensor at each node.
It makes for a super complex non serviceable battery though as far as I can tell. Instead of trying to repair some of these EVs with small dents on the battery they just send the whole brand new car to the junk yard. Thing is though, some junk yards are rejecting them because they've been catching fire.
Sometimes like a whole month after receiving the car at their junk yard.
@@arcrides6841 A group of cells in parallel behaves like one cell, unless one one cell goes short circuit and drags the voltage down.... But if that happens you are already too late - because you get no warning, a shorted cell will immediately start one of those chain-reaction that an EV battery is getting infamous for.
It's done all the time, it just requires a dedicated wiring to each cell for the BMS monitor. If just monitoring voltage a single wire per cell is needed. With right set up a control can cycle thru banks of cells during charge discharge and monitor the cells. I assume this system uses large rectangular pack style cells and not tiny AA sized ones so its not thousands of cells to wire.
@@adrianwilson7536 Another person who doesn't understand basic electrical principles. You can only do that with cells that are in series, not parallel. And parallel is more convenient for manufacturing reasons mainly.
There are more than 200 truck fires every year in NSW alone according to the NSW EPA, who have a guide on how to prevent them. I guess a document update is in order to add an extra failure mode.
I read the report, found it hilarious they said it took 80mins to put out and they pulled the batteries out
Hi John, awesome vid. Look, I'm a carpenter and as a rule we have a rough idea of what size a piece of wood or steel should be but we're not allowed to chuck it up and see what happens , for that we have these peoples called.....engineers....to spec up the show so as to not to fall down. The point here is in fact anything that could break is done beforehand , in controlled conditions, not as we build . Maybe there is a point here . Cheers , James .
Yep. But you missed the part where EVs are a protected species that is immune from criticism and is safe and effective by definition. All that pesky safety stuff isn't necessary, it's bad PR for EVs.
We live in a world where all the lessons that were learned through unimaginable amounts of pain, suffering and death are being casually tossed out at an alarming rate by ignorant leaders who think they know better.
@@Patrick-857 He didn't miss it - he is specifically stating that the lack of engineering standards on this truck is unacceptable. The political capital of greenwashing EVs is now so obvious, it doesn't even need to be stated outright anymore.
@@andoletube I was being a little sarcastic.
Holden & Ford would road test new cars for hundreds of thousands of km before releasing a new model, to get the cars to a point where they were reliable enough to sell to the public.
Just wondering if you’ve heard or seen pictures of where BYD are storing their cars in Melbourne? Right next to a petrol station and there would have to be at least 200 of them there. And 100 metres from a home for the elderly and 200-300m from residential homes. Every time I drive by, I’m almost not regretting my ex wife ruining my life and removing us and our kids from living less than a km away. They are parked as close as cars in a carpark. But coordinated by colour
Wasn't Janus the god with 2 faces? I could be wrong but if so there's definitely some irony at play
You are not wrong...
Yep.
As always, brilliant John. What I never understand, is how common sense and your general points dont make it into general circulation? and how can this be changed?
How does it happen? Exactly the same way that Adolf H, Stalin and Pol pot did it.
Can’t be changed - the overwhelming majority are drinking the cool aid
Edit : root cause - propaganda accepted by the majority
Like, subscribe and share👍
Generally, they fail to remember to think of the important questions when writing: who, what, where, when, why, and most importantly, how.
@adammacdonald1252 - won't happen under this Labor Govt the albo bowen woke leftist ideology..
Most of the media are fully into climate change hysteria and are consequently fully supporting the use of EV's.
They carefully bury all news that does not support the narrative.
Just 1,050 weak links in the death battery chain. How reassuring.
Trying to fight a thermal runaway battery fire with a fire extinguisher is like trying to take on a tank battalion with an empty water pistol.
A "single cell failure" is like saying only a bit of the fuel in the tank initially caught fire.
Excellent clarification!
All i'm going to say is " nail on the head john"!! This is totally unacceptable and as an ex long distance truck driver I'm extremely happy I don't have to get behind the wheel of one of these "shit boxes "😂🤔
Don't sweat that . These are only local deliveries only . To put a battery into a truck half the load capacity would be battery's. And it would take a week or more to recharge that baby .😅
Right on point about the "Prime Mincer" JC, and I'm sure he'd be a big proponent of the J-Anus truck experiment as well.
Since they have helpfully arranged for their (totally safe) product to text them (not the emergency services mind, just them) when it is about to put on pyrotechnic display, I feel it is incumbent on them all, to immediately get themselves to the scene of the next 'event'. Once there, they should position themselves downwind of the resultant toxic plume, in order to demonstrate to us all, how incredibly safe their product actually is. Once the 'Darwin Effect' has presumably kick-in, we can all get back to our day jobs. 🤔
So they’re now reporting EV fires with the same honesty as they report jab side effects.
... Perhaps have a look at Gary Null's "A Second Opinion" and/or Brent Leung's "House of Numbers".
John when the golf club near me went up in smoke recently thanks to them charging electric golf carts in a storage area in the building causing many millions of dollars damage in an interview with the local fire brigade Captain he said they attend this kind of fire at least 4 times a month meaning I assume lithium ion battery fires.
23:43 EV sales are tanking, every fire event increases insurance, let alone the risk to life.
As ever a great video .
Range anxiety and increased electricity cost and anxiety of being able to charge, makes the experimental vehicles impractical.
What are you basing your statement on? It wouldn't be global EV sales because they are still increasing year on year. 100 more ICE fires per car than EV and then you are looking down the barrel of cars being delivered in January with these batteries. ruclips.net/video/tzcas4D_0Ek/видео.htmlsi=NHmC3HWq327h9JtO
Don't forget Mobile Phone Coverage for the pay apps. A lady recently wrote about her experience driving an Iqonic 5 instead of her Corolla. Driving from Sydney to Melbourne and back with her 5 year old son. She drove the 130kms to Sutton Forest and discovered there was no phone coverage with Vodaphone. All up the round trip cost her $210 in the EV compared to her previous trip in the Corolla which was $140 and 7 stops for the EV compared to 2.
The lithium ion batteries are amazing technology but the technology is not up to the job.
Problem is any battery storing even more energy, for greater range of course, is going to be even more dangerous, like the difference between one ton of tnt and two tons of tnt. The risk from battery technology is not going to become safer, it is going to become more dangerous. And as new technologies are developed they are also going to be heavier technologies so any additional power is going to be expended moving a greater weight. For those who do not know, lithium is the lightest of all metals. Every other metal is heavier.
@@jeremyashford2145 good thing there's no explosive potential in ICE vehicles.
@@jeremyashford2145 Less safe like these batteries ruclips.net/video/tzcas4D_0Ek/видео.htmlsi=NHmC3HWq327h9JtO
I can guarantee the BMS does NOT monitor each and every cell individually. This in essence is the elephant in the room regarding LiOn traction batteries...You would need a temp sensor on EVERY CELL. Guess what, there isn't. Basically, its like each cell is a thermal runaway waiting to happen. Its the same story with the fluid cooling, assumptions made about the temperature of EVERY cell. They simply can't monitor EVERY cell...The End...🤔😳🙄🇬🇧
"We didn't know cells could fail this way." I guess Janus missed every EV battery recall ever that got "solved" by upgrading BMS software to (hopefully) catch misbehaving cells before they do this. If one cell is acting out of wack, you've got a battery recall on your hand because it is only a matter of time before it fails catastrophically. No ifs or buts.
1050 cells, one fails truck burns down. So we have 1050 changes to burn everything down
In IT it's called a single point of failure. 1050 single points of failure is a system designed for a catastrophe.
I find it a little number. Would there not be way way more batteries. Or is it a plug-in?
@@RealButcher could be large cells. I think l read somewhere Teslas have 7000 cells.
@@paulcattapan2481been wondering about this. Does the truck have several battery packs, each with 1050 cells? I would expect a truck to have a battery several times bigger than a car.
The fact that a single cell failed and caused this makes it worse not better!
Because if 1 cell can cause this, every truck will have 10,000 cells just waiting to cause this.
They're basically saying their pack design has zero tolerance for a single cell failure.
You don't like gambling?
@@IntegerOfDoomi do.
I'd have one for shits and giggles.
I'm just not sure it's good for society as a whole...
@@IntegerOfDoom Remember, 5 out of 6 people believe Russian roulette with a handgun is safe....
Yeah exactly, what's the rate of defective cells being put in EV batteries? If it's 1/1,000,000 cells is defective every few hundred battery packs is potentially a toxic bonfire waiting to happen.
When the truth does not fit the narrative.
The truth becomes blurred and buried.
I dread to think of the damage that would have occurred to the Westgate Bridge if the thing had stopped up there. The sheer chaos caused by the fire on the day would pale into insignificance against the permanent closing of one of Melbournes most critical arterial roads.
Very well researched, analysed, and articulated. I agree with your conclusions and sentiments on this green religious lunacy.
The engineering could have had a failure from improper design or choice of materials, material failure incorrect BMS specifications, and/or construction issues. That does not make the concept of electrification lunacy. There are newer battery types that are not fire prone. The "research" you mention makes no reference to this.
In fact, in my opinion after a minor attempt at analysis, the way Little Johnny "races to the bottom" with his J-anus attempted humour, is disturbingly biased. For instance, where is there any attempt at verification of the safety standards applicable or any attempt at contacting the EPA, fire services, or Vicroads for comment?
Lithium power tool battery fire inside car.
John, you've been warning us about this hazard for more than a year.
My brother had an 8 amp/hour lithium cordless power tool battery on the rear passenger side floor of his car. It was new, fully charged once, free-standing, not on the charger or the power tool. Overnight it self ignited and burned the interior of his locked car until it ran out of air and self extinguished. NRMA Insurance wrote off the Triton, despite the fire being confined to the back of the front passenger seat
The inside of the cab would have been coated in toxic waste. Worse than having someone die in it
@@theairstig9164 Just like a dunny filled with toxic waste .... WHAT A STINK ! ... the inside of the car could have been cleaned or, if it is down to ELF and SAFETY women to make a decision, then the inside of the car could have been ripped out and replaced at far less expense than writing off the car. You can bet your life that the bastards didn't pay out the full market price. Insurance companies are far too keen to write off cars that could be repaired especially if they think that they can get away with fraud when it comes to pay-outs. The law should require manufacturers to provide ALL components at a fair price. Nearly all insurance companies are run by thieving scum.
I wonder what thing-a-me-bob's brother would have done if he only had third party insurance. I suggest that he would have cleaned the interior ...and stuck a bit of plastic over the damaged back of the one damaged seat.
He could, of course, have tried suing the battery provider for supplying a battery that was not fit for purpose thereby causing consequential damage to his property. After all, you expect batteries to last without incident for more than one charge.
@@terryhoath1983you can’t clean up the hazmat residue from a battery fire easily. It takes specialists and there would still be a risk that material would be left behind to potentially harm future occupants. If a car has caught fire, even a small fire, the insurance always will write off the car to mitigate the risk. it’s not about screwing the insured out of a few micro pesos it’s about risk management. Not that I’m sticking up for insurance companies as they’re parasites we could well do without.
I'm curious if it was a shit no name brand or a big brand, because more likely to happen if you cut corners
Think there may have been fault with the floor . It isn't the size of the battery but the heat with which it burns .
IF, and it is a humongously gigantic IF, a single cell caused this much of a fire and resultant damage, we can only be grateful that the other 1,049 cells did not decide to burn also!
Did you hear about the fire at GMs battery plant in Detroit Michigan? It's the second fire this year.
These days "staff writer" is most likely to be the infamous Mr. ChatGPT
If they're not willing to put their name to it it's bullshit
With the Woke dial turned up to 11
Hugh Janus is related to Biggus Dickus in Rome.
I know his cousin …
Kockus Headly …
Hugh G. Rexshun, etc., etc.
As a former OEM supplier to the commercial transport industry in Australia, both coach and heavy vehicles, we had to supply all tech specs to the various engineering departments for our products. Accuracies (we were instrument specialists) MTF etc. We also built inhouse a series of master check gauges for one particular commercial vehicle builder so that they could check the quality of all deliveries we sent to them for themselves. We designed and built this, then handed it to a NATA lab to establish its credentials before sending it to the client. In light on my experience of 27 years in the industry I am amazed that they accepted the batteries and didn't do any stressing of the cells to see what would happen in any worst case scenario. Seems that driving that truck up over the bridge would have dragged a lot of electrons from the packs generating a lot of heat in the process.. and then going down the other side would have kept the heat load on them if they were using regen braking. As you said JC, a huge brave new green world experiment that can and probably will have tragic consequences one day. Coming to a street near you.
John , the EV manufacturing sector is really digging its own grave one could surmise . I have just read a book by Bob McDonald titled 'The future is now' and what I concluded is that EV is just a 'blip' in automotive history . Hydrogen tech will hopefully get their act together .
With the current (no pun intended) crop of EV 'ungineers' ruining their own reputations , the market will vote with their wallets .
Thank you sir ! Another gem presentation .
straight forward and insightful. Don't hold back, these events are a danger to the community.
imagine if this occurred in a tunnel. I for one will be avoiding tunnels, while E Vs are on the road.
An EV fire in a busy tunnel sounds like a movie waiting to be made.
Oh dear. Stay in your little bubble there Charles. 'Little' John Cadogan is doing is best work in stirring up his disciples, clearly.
A problem with a lot of ev's is the fact that the battery packs are not serviceable.
Teslas packs are the most well known, but they near all do something similar, welded together batterys, sealed in together in expanded foam.
When a cell starts to fail, you can't isolate it, you near need to throw the whole battery into a furnace melt it down to it's base metals and start again.
Because you need them like that for thermal management.
The radiator coils run past each battery.
unfortunately no recycling system exists. Another issue with EVs
@@Robert-cu9bm I understand that.. probably why this thing failed.
@@GSimpsonOAM that's just incorrect information. Phone batteries and computer equipment have been recycled for years.
ruclips.net/video/s2xrarUWVRQ/видео.htmlsi=NpxD0grp0-dUBYmW
They shred it and start from scratch...
However just like a wreckers yard, there is generally more value selling the cells on than recycling them
A lot of people make home made potential house fires at home with diy home batteries for solar capture.
What about that facility that grinds them up and makes brand new batteries? It's the future! 100% recyclable. We'll never need to mine again.@@GSimpsonOAM
John I totally enjoy your vids. A joy to watch.
John I would love to see a review of people’s EV holiday travel experiences, with queues, wait times,charging times, cost per charge, etc?
I think this would be very informative
Well, last summer when everyone went on holiday with the kids the people in petrol cars were taking the usual 10 minute break to fill up. With all the extra traffic the people with EVs were queueing up 7-8 hours for their turn at the charger. Plus the time to charge. It was in the news but confined to the middle pages out of sight. I wouldn't want to try and entertain the kids for that length of time when they want to be on the beach eating ice cream and not sat in a service station while Daddy moves his car a few feet every hour into darkness waiting to charge the shit box.
@davidhancock91 David check out Geoff Buys Cars on RUclips. An English guy who had a friendly challenge with his mate to get from the Northern tip of Scotland to the Southern tip of England in a diesel BMW versus a new EV Porche. All the comparisons of time, range anxiety, cost of fuel, where to charge, how long to charge etc. are there. It's amusing but chilling...I'll not spoil it for you. But you can guess the results. Cheers Roj
Yes! The gift that keeps on giving, Hugh-Janus and his famous buns.
😂🤣
Lets face it, Oppenheimer wasn't 100% sure the 'explosion' would not destroy the earth, but pressed the button anyway.
Our government's and corporations are insanely sick. Let's hope that there is hope. Thank you John for your intelligence and common sense. As well as your moral and ethical decency.
Quality information and humor once again, thanks dude
The gullibility of the general public due to educators the media and politicians around fixing the global issue is pathetic. It's a shame more folks do not look at the facts as presented by John and realise the depth to which they've been misled, and this is appalling for the future.
So an EV battery can turn itself into a Takata airbag? never thought about that before.
Thanks John. You really nailed this one.
Ahhhh “discharging like sailers on shore leave…” love it!
Their PR reminds me of the late John Clarke in "The Front Fell Off".
You are LEGEND, JC. It is actually quite fitting that a not ready for public consumption vehicle was represented by a the worst example of public relations in recent memory.. Nothing worse than negligence and incompetence represented with arrogance and condescension. His risk comparison stats were particularly egregious and insulting. {Weasel emoji unavailable). Thanks for the info, the snark, and continuing to provide the one of the few bullshit free zones on RUclips. Cheers! 🏁
Awesome as usual, John. Taking into account the difference of 5 vs 11 months, I get 'sparky' is 60x more likely to light up your afternoon commute.
Their next theory has to be that the fire was triggered by an unusually toasty afternoon - a direct result of climate change. Something they are determined to do their bit for. Evidently.
A quick check of the BOM website for the closest weather monitoring station (Olympic Park) for the day of the incident shows that the maximum temperature reached for 28 Nov was a blistering 23.2°.
Room temperature...definitely fighting the climate change there.
@@col.firefly Bring one up to the Tanami desert, only low 40's this week a great way to test any vehicle cooling.
Seems that EVs have a lot more points of catastrophic failure than ICE vehicles.
The amazing thing is that while i may be utterly uninterested in E.V.s in every capacity other than trains, i do watch a few channels where people whom i find interesting or knowledgeable on some given subject or field(machining related most likely), are also fans of E.V.s and actually endeavor to make their own conversions, which often results in battery pack issues, where one is confronted by a ridiculous price for a new pack, a ridiculous price for a used pack(bad idea) or the project of making one yourself... Through those people - self-proclaimed amateurs and hobbyists in the field of batteries - and their projects, I have apparently learned more than Janus el. knows even today... Every single cell in a pack should correspond tightly to a very narrow range of voltages... If one cell is acting anomalous, the whole pack is taken out of commission, opened and all the cells are checked, balanced and the anomalous cell is also balance charged and inspected... You don`t just let a low voltage cell chill out, because a low voltage battery does not chill, it gets hot, or rather, the conductors leading from it get hot, like melting metal hot, and that shit is very bad when occurring within a close knit unit of battery cells and their conductors, all of which have to be insulated and kept in pretty much ``pleasant household`` conditions to even perform optimally... Having a low voltage cell means proportional spike in amperage to the delta of current volts to nominal charge...
As a mech apprentice, i have seen people with sub 11V accumulators(batteries) in their car have their car towed in with the customer stating that they tried starting the car when something smelled funny and the whole car just died... You proceed to open the battery compartment, only to find exactly what you expect - molten mains or terminal clamps(the cheap cast ones you get for 1.25$ a pack) that just got obliterated when the starter motor tried cranking the engine with its already high amp draw even on nominal voltage...
Quite ridiculous to see a large tax payer funded corp. having so little grip on the field in which they are working, but on the other hand, what is tax for, other than to reduce your overall living standard and feed the corruption and lost causes anyways... Honestly, i would rather pay the medieval 1/10th to the Church... At least they put out some nice buildings and torture devices for the wicked around... Oh the good old days... *contemplates high speed lead - skull augmentations*
These criminals should be brought to jail for years. No other path.
One of your most important exposures yet, these clowns need your heat and be held accountable . Keep up the fight.
John, I just love your delivery of the facts - so eloquent!
Did they really have telemetry for every single cell independently? And they dont use it for anything except after the event PR?
The BMS software was either under cooked or the driver knew, over rode the warning and by the time he was on the bridge it was too late to stop.
We have had reliability engineering sensors for aviation piston and turbine engines in the field for 20 years. I’ve seen cracked and bent valves, worn gearbox bearings and turbine vane elongation predicted weeks before it resulted in an actionable indication on the gauges.
IN EVERY CASE the service provider called the operator and said “our sensors have determined ‘X’ is failing. Our recommendation is ‘Y’”. The operator then (for example) didn’t fly over water or try a maximum performance takeoff over people. Instead they managed the risk and booked in the maintenance. Before the engine lost power and killed a lot of people
Like Rolls Royce supposedly knew where MH370s Engines were whilst in flight.
@@theairstig9164 It sounds like any telemetry is not fed to the driver so your analogy is irrelevant. The company that should be monitoring their prototype vehicles only just found out, if its even true that they have any idea what really happened other than battery failure of some sort, which we all know.
@@TomSmith-cv8hkyes, they knew and many other agencies also knew too. Complicity seems close to liability
What I'd like to know is how much damage would have been done to the bridge concrete if the driver had bailed earlier.
Give the guy a break he was probably running for his life . I know i would have been
Good on you, John....well explained, thanks.
Good update John.
I’m pretty sure that of the 250 diesel truck fires very few (less than 5% I would wager) would be actual diesel fuel related fires. Other causes such as electrical shorts/overloading and overheated brakes/tires will be the major ones.
I had an oil pressure line break and spray engine oil onto a hot turbo which caused a fire. Extinguished with one 5lb ABC fire extinguisher so kind of a non event. And it still wasn’t a diesel fire.
Cheers
One thing John surprisingly failed to say is that those two hundred and fifty ICE truck fires were likely a variety of scales of event ranging from the simplest short circuit that the drive IS able to extinguish himself, and that the most serious was likely nowhere near as dangerous as the Jasshole Fire. Brilliant talk but. Thanks John for adding a touch of reality to the conversation.
I was waiting for a bus at the Sydney QVB when an LPG fueled bus caught fire, the passengers alerted the driver who thought the kids were just being a nuisance and refused to open the doors until he was alerted from onlookers. He exited the vehicle as did the passengers and attempted to extinguish the blaze with a tiny little powder canister but was unable to access the engine compartment. I had called the fire brigade, as did others and they attacked the engine bay doors with axes and then flooded with water,. It was all over in minutes and another bus turned up and we all got on and went on our way. Brand new bus too. By the by, LPG is not zero emissions.
@@seanworkman431 That's strange, over here the extinguisher ports are visible from about a hundred meters away. For some reason LNG buses are not allowed underground. Electric buses are fine for some reason. It's surprising we don't have better engine bay monitoring with all the data available to the ECM, I would expect a fire would be pretty simple to identify.
Break down of the truck fire types - probably a number of collisions with long distance driving, roll-overs etc poor maintenance, old vehicles - wouldn't think joy riders stealing them but who knows, if you got a long distant truck then with a sleeper cab and smoker who's trying to manage fatigue breaks could be in there as well.
@@kampar82I would train heavy vehicle operators the same as seafarers, fire and first aid training..Australia is a backward place, just have a look at our energy policy.
We export our natural resources and then import solar panels, wind turbines while destroying our energy grid and making life un-affordable for the general population.
Same in many places..
How many of the Diesel Truck fires are actually related to the Diesel part? Brakes overheating can cause a fire in a Diesel truck, as can a build up of grass/plant matter around hot non-diesel parts of the vehicle. It could also be caused by the lithium ion battery in the impact wrench that the Driver uses to change the tyre.
Greatest hits Vol 1. to enhance your EV driving experience:- 1. Runaway - The Coors 2. Chain Reaction - Donna Summer. Two tracks are all you need...
Add this to the list, Electric Six - Danger High Voltage (the lyric why do we keep starting fires is a great one)
You’re on fire!!!🔥
Meanwhile for the people back at the depot "We Didn't Start the Fire" by Billy Joel.
@@jeremyashford2145 always a fan favourite ❤️
@14:53 You nailed this point. "Do not try to fight that fire"
One of your best John....love the Sailor analogy.....
Just wondering how they did the forensics? From what I have read it is just guess work since the evidence was destroyed, and the "evidence" they are using is just previous BMS logs, which may or may not have any connection to reality and is definitely not smoking gun, just circumstantial.
The BMS data was stored in the cloud, in real time. That’s not in the public news. They knew what they were dealing with, weeks earlier. Now you know why the driver got a call while he was still on the scene
Supposedly they have
Telemetry , but I'm sceptical
Don’t hold back John 🤣🤣🍻
Thanks, John. Well done, as usual.
I used to work at Janus and tried to tell them about overheating issues. They kicked my groin and fired me.
Good comments about serious engineers needing to understand failure modes before deploying new technology and the way in which complexity compounds the failure modes. There should be an engineering principle - design simple and safe products - or don't bother.
There's no way to know if a modern engineer was hired whether due to his educated prowess or to his/her/zer/zim diversity status.
The whole "destroy the environment to save the environment " comes to mind. A wise man said
"Definitely no carbon emissions come out of EVs" , unless it's on firel, Doesn't take much to wonder why the sales have tanke I suppose.
Problem is they ignore all the “carbon footprint” it takes to produce the batteries and motors, plus the carbon footprint to generate the electricity to charge them (yes, even windmills and solar panels have huge “carbon footprints.”)
With a few added bleeps to prevent the smattering of expletives from offending the delicate eared this video should be played around the WORLD !
Please do not hold back and tell us how you really feel about the situation. 🤩🤩 I Love your videos keep up the great work.👍👍👍
But it was only one rogue cell that started it. It is unfair to blame the other 1049 innocent cells for causing the problem! It's like punishing the whole platoon for Gomer Pyle's jelly donut.
The electric vehicle that destroyed a house here in New Zealand in a little place called Cooks Beach did $3.7 million dollars worth of damage. It destroyed 3 houses
How do I not know about this? I'm in New Zealand.
Well said John, keep up the good work with solid facts
There is a very elegant solution to this problem... That big bit on the back; instead of carrying cement, should have been carrying nothing but water. And this water could be plumbed into the battery internals, ready to be deployed by the battery monitoring system in the event of even the slightest whiff of the possibility of a thermal runaway starting. There you go: I have fixed the problem - the fire will be out before even starts 🙂
The same could be done with electric cars: They should be forced to tow a giant water tank on a trailer - similarly plumbed into the battery.
I do not believe this is an unreasonable suggestion: in some countries, like Belgium, Denmark, Norway, and Sweden, it's a requirement to have a small extinguisher in car. Obviously a standard fire extinguisher isn't going to be much use with an Exploding Vehicle: a REALLY BIG trailer with about FIFTY THOUSAND gallons of water should do the job, though? 🤣🤣🤣
Lithium + water... That sounds like a good plan!
@Vincent_Sullivan now that is funny 😁 So tell me, how do firemen put out electric car fires? They pour 💩-tonnes of water on it... 🤣
But seriously... I suggest you look up the latest advances in EV firefighting, which basically involves injecting water directly into the heart of the battery... It is quite fascinating and very effective: the technology is here NOW, which can put out an EV fire almost as fast as an ICE car fire. Google it and learn something 😉
Having all these EV's on our roads (mobile bombs) could be considered an act of war but Australia has done it to its self and it isn't over by a long shot.
What about petrol tankers, trucks loaded with bulk ANFO, bulk xylene or anhydrous ammonia? Boxes full of paint tins?. I’ve seen a Coca Cola spill take out a layer of tar in an hour
Exactly EV are time bombs 💣
@@theairstig9164 I don't remember the last time one of these caught fire on a freeway, despite the fact that they are literally everywhere and have been running around on our roads for years. Just imagine though, an EV truck, pulling a trailer carrying some of this stuff and having a thermal runaway like this. Luckily this one was only a cement tanker
@@theairstig9164with quite literally thousands of the vehicles you mention running around the country every day how many fires/explosions do you hear of and if there is one it’s been caused by an outside source like a crash for example not spontaneous combustion.
@@timjohnun4297exactly. Imagine if it was carrying petrol for example.
Another great year of factual reporting John. Merry Christmas to you and your loved ones. EV or no EV? not a chance.
Good job on all the research and I also agree with your knowledge that could only make sense
What sort of registration/compliance for the road did this J. Anus truck have and how did they get it?
the standard sort that looks at heavy vehicles i doubt that there is an Australian Standard for heavy vehicle batteries but John may wish to clarify (i think he said this was a special approval) in my state if you want to modify a vehicle you apply to the department of transport front up with your engineers reports and if the engineer has ticked all the right boxes and the papers are in order of you go rego in hand.
FLAME ON
Battery Fires are not the type of Fire that most people understand. These battery fires are not Oxidation Fires. They are ReDox Fires which nobody is familiar with.
A ReDox fire does not happen by Oxidation like a regular fire. It happens Electrically and doesn't need any outside additives in the way a regular fire needs Oxygen.
I had a Fire with 20kg of powder in a Chem Lab which started ReDox Burning by itself. We tried everything to put it out, even Liquid Nitrogen, and Nothing stopped it.
The reason the fire looks like a Normal Vehicle fire is because the Vehicle is burning normally and we cannot see the ReDox fire happening separately inside the Battery Pack.
If that is adequately described as a "thermal event" imagine what a catastrophic fire that incinerated the PoS would look like.
We knew that was happening but we thought "Meh, whats the worst that can happen?"
Thanks John another very informative clip.
Glad someone is sorting out all the bullshit snd saying it as it is.
Good point on the diesel fires. Wonder how many of those fires were from some minor cab electric fires that were of minor consequence or even a result of a highway crash.
I love how an ad popped up mid-video advertising Allianz EV insurance, which I now know even covers battery fires!
Best read the F I N E print !!!
How far can a big, heavy cement truck go on 1K batteries like I use in my flashlight?