Do a google for "Mobile Weighing Services" they come to you and weigh you on flat ground. Want to do it yourself buy "Reich Caravan Weight Control Orange 1500 kg" and "Tow Ball Weight Scale"
As prime minister, or legendary RUclipsr amongst other roles, can you do this land a solid and print double sided. Or better yet, scrap the prehistoric-esk paper and 3 point shoot out to writing your notes on an iPad or similar? Thx thx 🙏
I used to work at a caravan/ trailer repair workshop. The amount of people who towed boats and caravans far beyond their vehicle's towing ability was staggering. I fondly remember a customer who bought a 3.5T boat and trailer combo in QLD and towed it back to Sydney with no working trailer brakes behind his Audi Q7. He was unhappy with the cost of getting the trailer brakes repaired because he had to get his Q7 brakes replaced by the Audi dealer... It's frankly amazing we don't see more accidents involving boat trailers and caravans.
My best friend still tells the story of him witnessing a Datsun 120 Y suffering catastrophic failure directly in front of the foundry that he was working in at the time. Surprisingly, the vehicle had made it a whole two kilometres before both the engine and gearbox failed in unison, somewhat surprisingly to the driver.
Agreed....I have a bit of experience towing unbraked trailers and implements up to about that weight behind smaller tractors (approx 2500kg kerb weight) on vineyards.....even at lower speeds (
@@AutoExpertJC Audi Q7 braked towing capacity 3500kg. GCM 6440kg. This is not an example of “overloading”. The car was more than capable. Just really poor judgement doing it without operating trailer brakes.
Having been a law enforcement officer for over 30 years your video resurrected memories I’ve tried to suppress. Sounds like your appellate court judges reside in the real world. Justice was served. Excellent video John. Folks need to realize there are consequences for stupidity and carelessness.
Not so sure about consequences of stupidity in fact it's kinda feeling like they're almost protected 😂 read your comment and I was a towie and i know wtf is going on when a blokes staring off into nowhere. Triggers are a barsted you probably also check the traffic so ya don't pass a crash. I get so bloody angry that so many vehicles go by speed cameras ect that well you know what I mean I'm sure. Let the copper copper 🤦 but same thing with licencing when i got my licence what did ppl tell me. Now you can go learn to drive and horrifically that wasn't a bloody joke. I became a bad hoon and a older hoon/bikie told me how it was. I started driving the truck on the week I'd lost my licence dealing with the cop who'd taken it every other day 😂 he never mentioned it. That bikie did something amazing letting us hoons work at the yard on our car's. My job included showing them enough to teach but yea only enough 😔 so my story is bikies hoons copper's and other responders standing around waiting as brothers 😢 together. So when it's hard keep adding numbers then think how many hiways town's. When we cry a massive absolutely enormous number of brothers shed a 😢 with us
Many years ago I used to work weekends at a servo and some clown showed up one day with a Pulsar wanting to rent a car float, and said he was going to tow a Falcon with it. I wouldn't let him take the trailer and I got in the poop for it. People have a very casual approach to overloading, it's terrifying.
I hope you don’t feel bad for being told off letting business go because you very well might have saved some lives. Most towbars have loading specs on them these days and if you can point out the inadequacies of their towing vehicle, you give them less reason to complain. Being able to explain for good reasons why the electric and mechanical trailer brake systems are not going to be adequate with their tow vehicle is educating them and making the highways safer for everyone …
@@chrisbraid2907 thanks mate, no I knew I was in the right and I certainly didn't want to be responsible for what could have happened if he did that. I explained to him why it was a bad, bad idea but he wasn't interested and complained to the boss. As I said it was just a weekend job so it didn't phase me too much. And to be honest he probably just went somewhere else and they let him have a trailer. Unfortunately you can't legislate against stupidity, but you certainly don't have to enable it either!
@@mahcooharper9577 I know this comment is a year on but... If you did lend it out to him you would have been exposed to liability in case of an accident or even a fine (don't trailer hire places ask what you'll be using to tow the trailer with? I only hired one last month and I already forgot lol). You did the right thing though.
@deanchur they're supposed to yes, last time I hired one I booked it online and picked it up from a computer kiosk - it told me the capacity of the trailer but didn't ask what I was towing or even tell me I needed to stay under the capacity. You're exactly right, I would have had some liability and so would the servo, and he could have killed someone I care about - it was a hard no from me lol
Hello John, Greetings from Cumbria in the U.K. I want to extend my condolences to the family’s relatives. I lost my 28 year old son 9 years ago due to a car crash. He was stopped at a roundabout entry waiting for a clearing to get up and go. A car being driven at extreme speed around the roundabout, hit the kerb followed by my son’s drivers side Kia C’eed. My son was in a coma for 5 days before passing away. Last November my wife passed away, too. She never got over the loss of our son. There needs to be more talk about dangerous driving and people need to be shocked into action. Thank you for posting this video john. Stay safe and well.
Yeah, the UK seems to be getting worse for outright dangerous and inconsiderate driving, I am guessing some of it is due to the almost complete lack of any enforcement. Hardly see any Police about now, and there appears to be no disincentives to this trend of bad driving. My car was destroyed by a drunk driver who was never brought to justice, it was only due the fact it was a Volvo that we were not badly injured.
The loss of one of our children is surely the worst pain to bear. No imagining or fear of such a tragedy can prepare you for this. Sincere sympathy and…..unfortunately, genuine understanding.
I got a week ban off Facebook when I suggested that it was pure insanity that a person with no training or licence can hook up a 3.5T effluent box and piss off down to Dingo Piss Creek for a week. Truly a protected species.
I called someone a potato once for making a really dumb comment and got a week long posting ban. Funny thing is that was after I rephrased my comment with self censorship lol.
Excellent report JC. As an experienced heavy vehicle driver I see this all the time with caravans. Let’s not forget the family trailer boat that gets used as a “uhaul” to get the family and all their crap up to the rental beach shack on Australia Day etc.
Thank You John. You handled that commentary on such a difficult topic so very sensitively. I felt so very sorry for the unfortunate victims who died. When I bought and started towing a 3 tonne caravan exactly a year ago I spent endless hours watching videos like yours discussing towing weights. It was relatively easy for me as I love maths. I then spent six months working everything through correctly before I towed Perth to Adelaide in September. Of all the people I met I felt I was one of the very few who truly understood the equation. I had my situation confirmed by a full service caravan weighing expert on my arrival back into Perth. In my opinion it is neither LEGAL or INSURABLE to tow a 3 tonne plus caravan with a Landcruiser type tug without the vehicle undergoing a GVM upgrade and yet I can hardly get any of my towing colleagues to agree with me. I will definitely be sharing your video with them. My double apology for owning both a caravan and a Landcruiser. John B
It’s important to note that intent has little bearing here - Mr Russell had no intent to hurt anyone, the crime was committed because he failed in his duty of care as a driver by operating the vehicle in the grossly overloaded condition. You don’t have to know it’s overloaded, you don’t have to intentionally set out to break the law, but you can be charged and sent to gaol regardless if tragedy occurs.
Intent has no bearing on the CONVICTION but it has a lot of bearing on the SENTENCE. If the guy had been able to credibly claim that he had no reasonable way of knowing he was overloaded he may have been convicted, but he would not have gone to the slammer for four years.
My wife and I had been travelling around in a converted Nissan Civilian bus. When we realized it was not going to take us places where wanted to go, we went through a lengthy process of researching of what type of vehicle and or combination that would take us to those places and do it safely. We bought a 4x4 expedition truck that goes where you cannot take a caravan or camper trailer. We have seen far too many crashes involving caravans where loss of control was due to overloading and or excessive speed. The police have to start booking people to change this culture. It is illegal for heavy vehicle to tow a pig trailer that is heavier than the truck towing it. Cars or SUVs towing caravans that are heavier than the towing vehicle is just insanity.
As a lawyer, I like your explanation about the distinction between road rules (which are regulatory offences not involving a victim, and used to create DISCIPLINE among drivers) and crimes (usually involving VICTIMS). Very well explained.
This video needs to go viral, There needs to be a system put in place where drivers of caravans or heavy trailers in general need a separate license to tow such vehicles.
"A mistake is only as small as the result it causes." That's one of my personal favourite life lessons. It reminds me to consider the bigger picture, and not just the one in front of me at any given moment.
@BB49 I dont know but I think Rampart is just showing a logical falacy in the statement. Small result = small mistake ergo no result = no mistake. Dont misunderstand me I agree with the sentiment expressed in the saying.
So the van disconnected from the tow vehicle, hit the guard rail and had its contents "shotgunned all over the road" (odd turn of phrase to be using in court, but OK). I assume they determined its ATM by collecting the contents, along with the van wreck and weighing it all. What I don't understand is how they could determine that the towball down load limit was exceeded. For that they'd need to know how the contents were distributed in the van, and it's not clear how they could determine that.
The van is overloaded. Even if the weight was correctly distributed, the tow ball weight would have been 80kg more than allowed. The tow ball weight is deducted from the vehicle's allowable load so you probably would be overweight in the vehicle with the boat, not to mention, four occupants and who knows what else was in the vehicle, without reading the court documents.
I have seen a couple of overload scenarios that will stay with me for a while. I pulled into a truck stop to see an old jackaroo pulling a GQ patrol on a car trailer. This particular model (the same as mine at the time) had a towing capacity of 2250kgs and a 120kg ball load. The patrol and trailer would have been 3000kgs easily. He told me the car didn’t know it was there…I have also seen a commodore wagon towing an 80 series on a trailer pulled over by the cops on a motorway. Just crazy.
As a family who tows an old van up, down, and all over the place, I gotta say I appreciate all the helpful advice you offer so we can improve the experience and be more mindful of our mechanical limitations. I swear I dream about weight distribution for a week before we set off. So sad that fellas holiday turned into such a clusterfuck. I feel terrible for everyone involved.
I'll guarantee he feels worse. I'd have probably spared him jail, even the prison showers "gorillas in the mist" experience pales into insignificance next to what his own mind will do to him for the rest of his life.
@@rosiehawtrey yup, can't imagine wanting to carry on but we ain't all wired up the same, some blokes always find a way of feeling sorry for themselves so gorillas in the mist it is.
I'm watching from Denver, Colorado, US. We don't have as many caravans (or trailer-campers, as they're known here) but your video contains many valuable lessons. Thank you.
One thing you have missed in the overloading issue is the availability of moving trailers. I hired one a while back and stuffed it to the lid. I was about 2ks into a 145k trip when I realised that it was more than the tow vehicle (2003 4.8 Nissan Patrol with 3.5t tow capacity) was OK with. Unloaded some of it and was good to go. The problem is most people would just keep going.
5:10 John, I once worked for a small transport company that serviced the Bilo/Moura/Banana/Mt Morgan/and central QLD coalfields regions from Rockhampton. I witnessed the owner of the business picking up 4 tonnes of laminated board from the distributor 100 metres up the road, and then driving that truck from there to the depot with the entire 4 tonnes on the passenger side of the tray with nothing else on board, negotiating steeping driveway angles etc. That same truck would then be loaded with more freight and sent off to Bilo or Emerald. Usually 7 to 8 tons on a six-ton body truck. I had a run-in with him when he threatened to fire me for getting a 'down to wires and canvas' rear tyre replaced before I returned from Bilo with 6 tonne of freight on board, most of it hay, so the load was sitting high. I got back to the depot and he started yelling at me about how he decides what is roadworthy, not the Transport department. So, after a fourteen-hour day on the road that should have only been six, I grabbed him by the ear and physically dragged him by said ear under the truck to look at the tyre I'd replaced. He stormed back into the office and there was a huge argument between his daughter, the logistics manager and him. I did hear her say, "If you want to kill someone, drive the truck yourself! But don't make MY drivers operate unsafe trucks!" After that day he wouldn't talk to me or touch my (his) truck. I had to load it myself, partly based on the tyre incident, and when he pierced a 20-litre drum of hydrochloric acid with his fork tines and it spilt over the entire load one night (7pm) when loading my truck for my 2am start. It took me four hours to clean up the mess and make it safe. I banned him from loading it ever again. I only dealt with his daughter after that.
I worked for a courier company and I was at one of my regular pick ups (1 pallet weighing about 800 KGs) and this new guy comes in after me and they place a smaller 300 KG load on the back of his ute and he proceeds to secure his load with occy straps.... lol. The forklift driver and I just looked at each other stunned..... we stopped him from leaving and informed our company......
I have no comment on Mr Russell but it’s a bloody tragedy that its typically it’s the innocent people who get killed or injured from these scenarios. My sister is now confined to a wheelchair because some waste of life was attempting to drift their XE falcon on a country road.
It's crazy to believe retirees can go out buy a big bertha caravan with their Super money just because they want to do one-upmanship at the caravan parks. when in their life they never every tow a box trailer before buying a caravan. Their should be a up-grade system to your drivers licence if you want to tow 2 tons. They do it with truck licences. Why not your car licence.
Some years ago I was walking with the wife when we came across a yachtie that had been pulled over. His boat was a very large unit which looked like it wouldn't have been out of place in the Sydney to Hobart race. He was towing it with a Subaru Brumby!!! Not sure about the weight of the yacht but without exaggeration it was 4 times the length of the Brumby and half as wide again. I could clearly hear him telling the police "but I've always pulled it with this"
I assisted in administering First Aid to a lad who'd torn his WRX in half on the road between Emu Park and Rockhampton one night in the early 2000s. He'd lost it on a wide, sweeping bend. It had been raining, so his myriad lacerations were getting cleaned, and the fire his engine started on the other side of the road stayed under control. There were car parts strewn for over 150 metres, and he was still strapped into his belt in what was left of the cabin. Anyway, I knew he would survive. He was too wasted to suffer any serious injuries (you know, floppy drunk body thing). Nine months later, after I'd all but forgotten about the incident, there was news article in the local paper where he'd been charged with dangerous driving, DUI, undue care, speeding etc. Thankfully he didn't kill anyone. I was in a rollover in the early 80s that nearly killed me (drunk). I didn't know if anyone else was in the car when I came out of the three-day coma I was in. It took another 24 hours to find out I was the sole occupant. That was the very worst (even worse than my soulmate dying) experience I've ever endured. 24 hours not knowing if I'd killed anyone, or how many. The last memory of that day I had, I was in another car, driving, and picking up two hitch-hikers who squeezed into the Monaro that me and my three mates were in. I was driving. The crash happened in another car, some 6 hours after that last memory. I know this little tale of mine won't make the ten-foot and bulletproof think (I was that lad) but I hope it gives at least one younger driver food for thought.
@@Rampart.X there far more sober drivers statistically at given time than drunk drivers, so what is your point? That drunk drivers are safer? That's a fallacy..
@@telcobilly you don't know how many drink drivers, drugged drivers and incompetent drivers unless you test them. The brain dead, reflexive parroting of government statistics is fallacious. We all know it's highway robbery, revenue raising. Drink drivers are not the problem. BAD drivers are the problem. Admittedly, bad drivers are probably worse after a few drinks because alcohol aggravates their arrogant attitude. Good drivers, on the other hand, are not adversely affected by some alcohol and I will assert that they are better than sober BAD drivers.
@@nomyafiftyonefifty8081 Why? Because I randomly drunk-comment about my experiences related to vehicle crashes? Nah, mate. Just passing on experience in the vain hope that someone reads it and thinks more about the message than my mental health. What I related in the previous comment is really nothing compared to what I've seen. That's a gentle introduction. Try to imagine an old-style guard rail going sideways through the driver's side door of a Falcon sedan at about diaphragm/chest height. 'Professional help' doesn't erase that stuff, mate. It's brutally ugly.
Thank you John. We never hear the true and tragic details of car crashes. Your explanation of the multiple follies, should have every parent grab their kids to watch your warning. Even we adults need to be reminded of the profound risks to life in operation of cars and tows.
I live in Central West NSW, so a caravan mecca, especially during the Bogan Mecca known as the Bathurst 1000, and the number of times I've seen obviously overloaded caravans is unbelievable. How do I know they're overloaded? The tow vehicle's headlights are pointing at the sky. What ticks me off is I oft see the RMS with their mobile heavy vehicle checking stations pulling trucks over, but ignoring caravans. I've always said that before one can buy a caravan they need to do a course and have a license, even if they were a truckie in a previous life, and their tow vehicle needs to be checked. Also I feel they need to be checked at weigh stations and mobile heavy vehicle checking stations, like trucks are.
Thanks for this video JC, hopefully it gets through to people who are knowingly overloaded and makes them really think about the possible outcomes if things turn to shit.
Great report John. Surely this highlights the need for anyone towing something behind there vehicle needs to get a licence just like a truck driver and be subject to the same rules and regulations as overloaded and incorrectly loaded caravans and trailers is a very common problem .
Just a few weeks ago I followed a single cab tray ute, clearly overloaded with what looked like paving sand, unable to accellerate up an on ramp onto Eastlink. I chose to follow well behind and as we approached 80kph the fishtailing began. Fortunately they had enough sense to lift their foot off the accellerator and pull over into the emergency lane. "She'll be right mate" has become a plague.
Lifting the foot off the accelerator can actually make it worse. I experienced trailer sway many years ago and I was lucky to learn a couple of tricks as well as executing one that I had heard about. I kept the foot down and accelerated out of the sway and then slowed down carefully. But best to not get into the situation in the first place.
John there was a case in northern Tasmania a few years ago where a guy towing a heavy trailer whicj=h he had not bothered to fix the safety chains , parted company and wiped out a mini bus and killed 2 people- the guy is cooling his heels in goal.
In Western Australia, you can weigh your rig FOR FREE by driving through the weighbridge at any of the grain depots throughout the wheatbelt. You just drive on, and a red LCD display shows the weight and you drive off. And just to encourage people to use them, outside of harvest time, there won’t usually be anyone else looking at the scale, so it is confidential, as well.
@@Rampart.X Yes, it is available to anyone. I have used those weighbridges to check a ute and trailer weight, and also a truck weight, in the past. I don’t own a caravan.
It’s a bit late if you have already driven half way to your destination, weigh at a grain site, only to find that you are overweight - how are you going to fix it then ? Fix it before you get on the road, not afterwards.
Yer but most never listen cos they have been doing it for years and nothing went wrong but you only need that one time for hell to brake lose and your screwed I believe carmakers should be held accountable for all the false and misleading information about towing 3.5 tonne as well
@@rais1953 car makers only care about selling thier products to anyone who has the money Even a land cruiser and Nissan patrol are suitable to tow 3.5 tonne But more ideally your Ford f150 ,250 and 350 or a 3 to 5 tonne truck would be mote suitable and safe as a towing vehicle All the other Ute's on the market are just accidents waiting to happen Even the Ford Ranger Personally I think is stupid to tow 3.5 tonne unless it's by a truck or one of the Ford F series Ute range I was told the towing vehicle had to be at least the weight of the loaded trailer behind it or more Towing is dangerous at the best of times with out road conditions ,been tired or overloading or uneven weight distribution etc I'm surprised that there aren't more accidents like this happening more regularly
Ok let's let's start with ABOUT FU#@ING TIME. I've driven road-trains for way too many years and have been amazed how trucks are targeted when it comes to weights and have always been so fu@#ing angry to see so many overloaded vans with no consequences. I feel this guy should have gotten two life sentences for the people he killed. Especially for the fact that (based on your report) he was a truck driver and thus knew better. I have just brought a 4X4 hybrid van and we do mostly beaches and Forrest trips. I weigh the van and car separately as well as in combination every trip. I have been amazed how many people have no idea what their weights are and also amazed how much I get told I'm a fucking wanker for weighing it. How ever I think this episode shows how the $60 is fucking worth it. Excellent episode mate 👍👍
The weighbridges in my city are at every rubbish transfer station. Drive in, get weighed, drive out over the weighbridge again.. pay $15 as the minimum charge.... all good; receipt has the weights....
Now let's gaol truck drivers who tailgate cars driving under the speed limit. You know you do it. It's illegal and dangerous yet I've never heard of anyone being prosecuted, let alone incarcerated.
The trucking industry sh!t in it's own nest by operating well over the limits for decades, and if like you claim you have been an operator in the transport industry for many years, you well know this, it has set a precedence in which the government was forced to create a whole department to control the problem, and as anyone who has had any dealings with the government, once a governmental department is in place, it's here to stay. I'm sure when enough people or important enough people die from over loaded caravan incidentes, they will have the appropriate amount of attention placed apon them.
After years of consideration, I recently put a metaphorical line through "get a caravan one day" and struck it from my bucket list. Once the FJ and rooftop tent have worn out their welcome, I'll get a campervan or some other kind of all-in-one vehicle.
Yep, it's a much better idea to get the travelling abode bolted to a truck / bus chassis & engine combo pulling a smaller run about vehicle for when you get to each way point.
Had the misfortune as a volunteer Firefighter to have to go clean up the aftermath of such caravan/boat incidents here in NZ. Never a pretty sight usually some innocent person traveling in the opposite direction gets taken out but the fishtailing caravan/boat. NZ roads are very narrow and windy with lots of hills perfect recipe for this sort of tragedy.
Great video John, I love to tow our dunny behind us and have spent a lot of time and money keeping it legal. Thanks for doing this video. Really makes you think and hopefully will save this from happening again. 👍
I was going to make light of your love of caravans, but changed my mind part way through. Having been involved in the forensic process of road trauma, this is too serious an issue for that. McMansions on wheels, that everyone seems to want, allow people to carry way too much stuff. Whilst this was a case of negligence on behalf of the driver, we need to stop making vans bigger and bigger as this is the end result. We personally travel with a small off-road camper trailer (no effluent carrying capacity) when we go to dingo piss creek and are constantly amazed at all the giant vans we find ourselves surrounded, by wobbling all over our roads.
Agreed - I just returned from a trip to Fraser Island and the number of massive caravans swaying around was frightening. I towed a 650kg camper trailer behind my ute so no issues there.
Such an important topic. Your advice about attending a public weigh bridge is really good. It’s the very first step responsible caravan owners should take to ensure they know the tare weight of the van before starting to load it up for a trip. And take note of the weight of item’s being loaded into the van. It still amazes me the amount of vans and trailers you see being towed which are quite obviously overloaded.
I am a b double driver. There are many big companies in Australia that demand a weigh bridge test and carried printout of the weigh bridge test for the entire journey. Failure to show the weigh bridge test certificate will mean you are banned from all the company's sites nationwide. Over loading is not a joke to blue chip organisations so it should start dripping down.
13:55 Yep, commenting as I watch. I've seen way too much road trauma in my days on the road. I drive with the thought in mind that every other person behind the wheel of the steel killing machines around me is trying to kill me. I NEVER assume someone is going to do what you would expect at an intersection or roundabout. On the highway, when vehicles are approaching, I look for 'outs' on the left or right, just in case the approaching driver drifts into my lane. n suburban traffic I keep an eye on what's happening not only directly in front of me, but five cars in front if possible. I stop at lights etc far enough behind vehicles to see their rear wheels over my bonnet. I do the 2-second or 3-second rule on the road. I even use indicators properly. In the city, I won't turn on the radio unless it has traffic reports. Yep, I'm a driver nerd. I even maintain my own vehicle. Driving on the road inside your death machine is a serious responsibility. It takes a fraction of a second for your road trip adventure, or mundane commute to change to a tragedy. Having written all that, I'll just add that I abhor drivers who do 90kmh before a passing zone, and then proceed to do 110 through the zone, only to slow down again once the lane closes. Those people shit me to tears.
As someone who regularly tows and have gone to the trouble of weighing my vehicle/trailer combination, I would suggest that getting access to a weigh scale for your 4wd and trailer should be easier. From where I live (North East metro Perth) the nearest public weigh bridge is 33km one way and is unreliably available. 66km round trip potentially overloaded, seems sub-optimal. Maybe as part of a national road safety campaign weigh stations could be installed at several service stations or car washes, coin operated perhaps?
Thanks for the info John. Just wanted to say if the driver was an experienced truck driver he should have had an accurate working knowledge of the weights and measures of the vehicles he was in control of and should have been charged with 2 counts of Manslaughter instead of just the negligent charges. Sorry for the lack of commas etc but am slightly worked up over this. Cheers Mark
It amazes me how many people are driving around overloaded just in their 4x4s. There is surprisingly not alot of weight wriggle room especially in wagons.
Put a steel bull bar and a winch on the front. Weigh the front axle. Add the weight of two average adults in, and the result is often that it is overweight on the front axle. That is regardless of any other bit of gear that gets added.
You're absolutely correct. The. only way to get it right and accurate, is to load up your beast with everything you'll be taking with you (including extra water fuel and water, passenger weight etc, . . .) and drive down to a public weighbridge, weigh it and check against your GVM. Peace of mind and a clean conscience, not to mention having to worry about the boys in blue or your insurance. cover. Thanks again John.
To be fair it's not the overloading that kills you, it's how you treat that weight. If you ignore the wobble because you think it's someone else problem, or maybe you've got an electronic gizmo that will fix it, either way these are the things that bite you. I doubt an overloaded vehicle has ever crashed when they've driven at speeds safe for those conditions. Legal ramifications, different story
I've been putting together my new 'home and workshop on wheels' over the past 12 months, and EVERY decision I make on what to add to the ute, weight is at the forefront. I want to stay well under the rated loads for both the ute and the essential trailer. I'll be running a mobile 'bush' workshop as well as living in the ute, so I have to be very careful about my gear decisions.
This is one of the best videos you’ve done, John. I did a few years as a first responder (volunteer) and some of the MVAs I saw first hand were frightening. I really wish there was more education enforced on drivers than this laser focus on speed being the major issue (not saying it’s not), but seriously, people need to understand just how badly things can go when you F around on the road. Want a license? Learn the physics and prove it with a offensive / defensive driving course. And get your first aid cert. Learn how ti maintain a car etc etc. Want to tow? Learn how to tow by doing an accredited towing course, and get your van/boat etc weighed yearly. Renewing your rego? Get your car inspected and ensure it’s safe. Renewing your license? Time for a re-test and update on the rules. After what I’ve seen, I’d vote for all of the above to be written in in to law.
Gday John thanks for sharing this video on such a serious topic. Your closing comments really does show how much of a problem overloading is in this country not to mention the dismissive attitude of those who should really know better. Thanks so much for sharing this. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
While I understand that ignorance of the law is not a defence, I imagine the court would have considered that this bloke was a truck driver & should known about load limits more than the average punter!
A few years ago in early January my wife and I did a road trip from Sydney to Melbourne going the pretty way, around the coast on country roads which sometimes were not all that great. As usual when travelling abroad (eg 'merrika) I discovered that the speed limits were only for foreign tourists. Despite sticking to the speed limits (+5 to 10%) I was amazed at the number of speeding vehicles that overtook us that were towing caravans and trailers. The said combos then fishtailing off into the distance at alarming rate of knots. It was quite often like being in a Whacky Races cartoon!
Licencing for any braked trailer. Also, some enforcement around the works of fiction caravan compliance plates typically are. Hot tip: Take your van empty to a weigh bridge and find out exactly what it weighs. Then take it home and carefully add weight to be within some arbitrary margin of the maximum loading. Say 50kg or so, ensuring you fill the various tanks and gas bottles etc. Take it back down to the weighbridge and double check your weights are correct including GTM and ATM. Then assuming everything is in spec, measure the distance between the drawbar and the ground at a specific point and the chassis and the ground at a specific point such as the rear spring hangars. You now have a proxy for the weight in the van. All you need to do is make sure that the towball weight is the same (can by inexpensive scales for that) and that the drawbar is at the correct height. You can then measure the distance at the rear to see if the load imposed is above or below the max determined earlier, or within a margin of error that means you should reconsider what you're doing.
My father had hernia surgery so I did the driving as a driver with about 2 years experience. Renault Safrane 2.5 auto pulling a 16ft van and my dad is the type who checks weights and measurements, balances what's where, as best you can, so off we go. Final destination Switzerland. So we're on the autoroute somewhere in Garlicstan and we're on a long downward hill, but it's shallow enough that no one noticed, car is smooth as silk as usual. All of a sudden the whole thing starts to wriggle and I'm wondering what the hell is happening - scan across the dash - and everything is green, temp, oil pressure, rpm and then I see the speedo. *85mph.* I very carefully take my foot off the throttle and I know enough not to even look at the brakes wrong, the car coasts down until its stable again and the cruise goes on at 65mph. *Its not just overloading that can kill* when you are towing *anything*. I still don't know how that combination stayed stable up to almost 90mph (although we did have some sort of jointed spring gadget that locked into the van and dropped into a carrier on the tow bar) but I'm betting if dad hadn't loaded it carefully it wouldn't have. We've seen idiots towing little empty trailers on motorways and the trailers are doing a passable impression of an ekranoplan - they're flying a foot off the road on the airflow from under the towcar..
I am a very experienced Heavy Vehicle driver and has driven vast distances over a lifetime , have constantly been amazed seeing so many " light vehicles " towing heavy loads and being overloaded . A 4 wheel drive vehicle with a lot of extras along with a full cabin is already at capacity . But most people cannot understand this !
I lived on a round-a-bout in Rosewater (Adelaide). We heard a v8 car racing around and also sirens. The police chase came down our street. The V8 Monaro tried to turn at the off camber round-a-bout and lost control. It speared off into a park and bounced off several trees. By the time it stopped the police were already there, sirens all the way. Next day in the news it was reported the chase was called off minutes earlier. No it wasn't. We had a ring side seat from our front garden.
Same. I saw a police chase through red-lights, in the rain. The speeder went through first, then I went across the path of the road when the lights were green and was barely missed by a police car in pursuit. The speeder crashed and the cops were literally about 5 seconds behind. Channel 10 reported that the police were not in a pursuit but arrived on the scene of the crash soon after. This is why we hate them.
Thank you for this video. As a full-time traveller, we are very conscious of weights. We talk to other travellers and a lot do not give a flying Fuck about their weights. The amount of overloaded car and caravan combinations we see daily is beyond belief. Wake up caravan operators weight matters. This report should be regarded as an eye opener, and if you fail to adhere to the rules in regards to weights and overloading well, the next step is either death or jail time. Great video, as always.
Hey John, thank you for sharing your knowledge with us all. I know when it came to going on my own adventure away, I made sure to make it a priority to comply with weights etc. Something I wouldn't have considered beforehand, so thanks again
I just came down the M1 from Newy to Sydney this afternoon. Passed a port-a-hovel rig. The consist was an older BT-50 hitched to the mobile effluent carrier happy ending equivalent, a Retreat Daydreamer. The Daydreamer is a two axle pig trailer and it looked a weighty beast. The old BT-50 was loaded up to the gunnels under the canopy on the tray. One look at it screamed overloaded. I was thinking JC would be all over this bad old boy. When I got home, I opened up RUclips and lo and behold up pops this sobering and excellent report. I looked up the weight of the Daydream shit-toir (spelling?) - can be up to 3500kg. Didn’t pass the IQ test to me. They Are Out There. Overloaded caravans like a pox upon our highways. Well done JC for this report. It should be compulsory viewing for every van owner and new van buyer. Yes - and make weigh bridge certificates for each rig law. Cheers Mark
Driving back from the south coast a couple of years back we were driving up the steep hill on the Sydney side of the Picton turn off just after Mt Ousley. To the surprise of my son and I the tour bus full of people near the top of the hill had it’s rather large trailer decide that it wanted a conscious uncoupling. The weather was drizzling as usual for this area and the trailer came careering down the hill at us and the rest of the Sunday afternoon traffic. Cars were quickly forcing their way into the other lane as the trailer went uncontrollably down the road. I know it’s a different situation but it makes you wonder just how much training people towing vehicles have had before taking off down our highways. I never saw the result of this piece of negligence but there needs to be more scrutiny of people towing behind vehicles.
4 Year is not enough Two people are dead and one seriously injured. Thanks john for the report hope people will take this info and stop overloading their vehicles or towing overloaded.
Great video John. The CCA is its own Court and not part of the Supreme Court. Its decisions do, however, set precedents which bind other courts to. In other words, their decision of when the dangerous driving started is now the standard for a situation of similar facts, ie overloaded combination.
I used to go on caravan holidays as a kid with my grandparents and still remember the fuss my grandad made with loading the van. He showed me where to find the max weight and then how to load it safely, we never had any issues but it always stuck with me. Nowadays I can't see the point in taking the family you can't wait to get away from from a big box, put them all.in a small box, drive for 3 hours and then park in a muddy field..
Back when dinosaurs were a thing my army driving instructor said you wouldn't do dumb shit with a loaded weapon. Don't do dumb shit with a heavy vehicle. It's going to kill people just as dead. Thanks for the enlightenment. Regards Tony
Awesome public service John. Many people make poor decisions without thinking about the consequences. Unfortunately in my line of work I meet many of these type of individuals which can be very depressing.
Great content. As an engineer who spends my time simulating fatigue and impact capacity of structures, I always wonder how much more money than sense someone must have to lumber their poor vehicle with the cost, weight and wind resistance of a caravan. It's worth people knowing that approx twice the load = twice the stress = one eighth of the fatigue life. The relationship is cubic (but with much statistical scatter). And worse if anything yields.
I hate caravans too but here I am. It makes sense that dangerous driving begins at the moment you decide to drive a overloaded caravan/boat/whatever. Its our responsibilty to make sure we're not overweight. Ignorance of the law is not a defence.
I consider myself incredibly lucky. My very first job required me to tow heavy trailers. It just so happened that the leading hands that were assigned with the task of alleviating my youthful ignorance both had HA licenses and extensive experience. Both of them were also fairly seasoned bikers. Needless to say, I received a very good education with regards to safe towing practices, and they're lessons that I'll never forget.
I've seen a couple of mobile weighing businesses around that weigh every part of your vehicle and van separately including tow ball weight. I was watching this at a boat ramp car park on a quiet day. Worth the money.
As soon as you said catastrophic roof failure, I immediately thought of every vehicle with a GVM upgrade. Fine whilst on it's wheels but what happens to the structural integrity of the roof when all that extra weight is forced upon it in a roll over. Hmm very interesting and highly concerning.
Valid point. I have never thought of it like that. When the mass of the vehicle is 20%(avg) above that of which the manufacturer tests for in certain crash situations. 🤔
@@MrM1CHA3L yes a GVM upgrade consists of load carrying capacity. Yet the roof is a load bearing structure, including rollover protection. That as you stated has been designed for the maximum GVM from factory. To increase GVM without increasing the structural integrity of the roof/ cabins roll-over protection seems highly negligent. I'm a nobody and can see this, surely every single "engineer" who approves of such upgrades would most certainly have to be aware of. Buildings are over engineered here because if it fails it falls back on the engineer. Obviously this isn't the case in the automotive industry. Until some bean counter/lawyer from an insurance company figures out the obvious flaw in our current laws.. I see trouble on the horizon for anyone who has increased their vehicles GVM
I know it's a different vehicle and a different set of circumstances, my brother-inlaw years ago was driving a truck with a 26000KG limit (this is in the UK) and when he got to the place to dispose of the waste material he was carrying he was actually at 38000KG. The weight check guy thought the scales had a problem because of the the weight shown, it was spot on. Imagine the fine if he was caught.
John, I was driving home from the tip one day and saw this car and trailer coming towards me getting very very loose and flicking side to side. Just as I was getting the hell off the road it went past me and did the death flicks and spun the guy around. Did a u bolt and it was a 6x4 chock full of dirt (well it was, lots all over the road) and one wheel and hub axle bent at 45 degrees. So it can happen on a 6x4. Poor guy crapped himself.
Experienced truck driver mate, Appeals court would have taken this into account. Realising Mr Russell knew the system and knew too well the vehicle was overloaded knowing that there wasn't a requirement to be weighed at a safety weighing station, he was playing the system. This is why the book was thrown at him. Same reason companies use these oversized vans with trailers registered as cars to avoid the need to use log books with restricted hours and no need for weighing stations, gaming the system is nothing new.
In most countries, the "Driver" is responsible for ensuring compliance. Some crimes are "Vehicle owner" of course. If in doubt - weigh it. I was sent to the wharf 30 years ago as an owner driver to collect two containers "Weighing 12 tonne each". Truck wouldn't get out of 1st gear. Stumbled to the weighbridge at the port - 25 tonnes each! - 62 tonnes all up with a legal limit of 40. Made them unload me. Hateful, dishonest trucking companies.
Dear John: In 2021, I had a chance to realize a lifelong dream and drive across U.S.A from Myrtle Beach, South Carolina to Stinson Beach, California, exploring many famous fossil and mineral localities along the way and engaging with, mainly, rural Americans. I took Interstate highways and scenic byways alike. Next to that minority of truckers who drove terribly--not knowing what "keep right except to pass" meant, and the ones pushing double trailers, the R.V.er's with their caravans were the bane of the roadtrip. I have no idea whether their vehicles and regalia were overloaded, but their driving skills were decidedly underpowered making them, even more than the truckers, a menace to society in general and my Subaru Forester in particular. I truly feel sorry for Mr. Russell not so much because he'll endure four years in an Oz slammer, but for the regret ( and bad karma ) he has incurred from stupidity far more than malice. Nice report, John. So when are you going to review the Subaru Forester Wilderness. It's no WRX, but you'll have fun driving it.
An educational video - as always. Well done! I don't know what the theory syllabus for learner drivers is today, but when I did mine, there was nothing about towing, and certainly nothing about vehicle loading and weight management (sadly, which I need not only for my vehicle). If this isn't in the syllabus today, it sounds like there should be.. Or, maybe a license issued doesn't allow the driver to tow until the driver has done an endorsement covering the theory and a practical assessment pf weight management and towing?
John, I am a fan, this is the best video that you have ever made. In my opinion. If this is a legal precedent then a majority of caravaners are illegal. I watched a caravan manufacturer owner take his wife in a loaded Land Cruiser GR with a "3.5 tonne" caravan with video to show what they had inside. I would have loved to have seen that vehicle on a weigh bridge . This is a premium manufacturer. Bonkers. Compare that to an Adelaide manufacturer/ dealer who advised me to buy an American Ute with 4.5t towing for any caravan above 3t. This video needs to go viral as overloading causes breakdown delays, frustration to other drivers due to slow driving, stuff flying off roof bars, poor braking ability causing shunts, greater capacity to lose control of the vehicle .......... Overloading causes problems to other road users and it should be better policied.
John, thank you. Having been an avid caravaner and always striving to be legal (which was not always successful) like you, I urge anyone who is contemplating towing anything of weight PLEASE CHECK YOUR NUMBERS AND CONFIRM BY USING A WEIGH-BRIDGE. THIS IS SERIOUS SH!T……
Hi John. I obtained my Motorcycle License in 1985 and the test was cursory at best. Thankfully, the requirements for obtaining a Motorcycle License in 2023 are much more rigorous. No doubt, road trauma statistics involving motorcyclists played a key role in the introduction of these requirements and their subsequent review as the years have passed. A new Motorcyclist, even though they may have driven a vehicle for many years, are still required to undertake the nessesary education and training in order to obtain their Motorcycle License. I'm not against Caravans or the people that enjoy that form of travel but I hope trauma statistics are not the key indicator that enforces change to education and training requirements for those who intend to be at the helm of an articulated mass containing, in many cases, a GCM of 4 tonnes or more.
Started my working career in factorys and did not see much of the outside world, then I started doing onsite maintenance which was either local or country NSW. I was staggered by the lack of critical thinking being used in industry and by the rolling deathtraps on the road, either lack of knowledge or I do not give a crap. How long has Drink driving advertising and RBT been on TV and people still do it and in high numbers, Mobile Phone handling while driving because people have the attention span of a TikTok video. You can not educate idiots or the I don't care crowd, your concern about this issue works on the people that care but is forgotten in seconds by the morons who may or may not have a license.
bingo; I tooted a moron who was weaving around like a drunk, because he was texting on his phone and he became furious with my intervention and went full on road rage at me, swerving and brake checking..
Hello John. Re towing. I had a mate who built his own combo horse float/caravan. He pulled it with a F100 which he had specially modified with fuel wheels and a goose neck hitch for his float. He had his float specially built with 2 axles at the rear. I don't know the weight distribution etc but it travel well. No load in the truck and the comfort of the horses in rear of the float was his major concern. Gordon
Be careful, one of the problems I have had with hiring trailers is the trailer weight is rusted out or has a rivet through the label making it almost unreadable. The staff (petrol station) have no clue. These trailers are made to stand extreme abuse and are very, very heavy and for a basic car allow very little extra load , with a large double axle trailer this can be as little as only an extra 200 kg load.
Yes, I did notice this when looking at moveyourself or some such. On the website, the 5x7 unbraked caged was the same as the 6x4 with only 200kgs of load instead of 350kg. So the more room, the less weight, that's a potential recipe for disaster.
That's a good report there john. I'm not surprised at the fact that people are towing overloaded caravans/trailers. There's a tv commercial I fondly remember from a few years back and don't ask my how it got on tv without criticism but it was the advertisement for the RG series two Holden trailblazer from what I can remember. It shows the Holden trailblazer driving on a country road with two adults and a young boy in the back about the age 8. They come up to a slower vehicle towing a caravan and they overtake, as they're overtaking, the boy looks over at the caravan being overtaken and says "Bloody caravanners" and the ad ends in a line pretty much saying "The new Holden trailblazer, let's go there". I don't know if you remember that ad but it was a fair assessment. There's also many people who make the mistake of towing an unladen caravan that breaches the vehicles towing capacity thus straining the vehicle. Most caravanners are good but more education is needed. One expression I was told by somebody and it will apply to almost anything including those who try and overcomplicate things when loading their caravans and towing vehicles. It's called the KISS strategy. It spells, "Keep It Simple Stupid"! That also should be taught to car manufacturers that overcomplicate the design and engineering of their vehicles, you'd agree with that John. Lastly I send out my condolences the families of those two people who were killed in that tragic but avoidable accident highlighted in this episode. Also condolences to the third person who suffered potentially life altering injuries in the accident as well. Caravanners, you've been warned!
Well done, about time someone took this on. My kids have just got their first cars and I am constantly pointing this out. Watching young blokes leave worksites in their flash 4 wd with fitted tool boxes, winches and high lift kits towing a builders trailer loaded to the shitter. As I explained to my kids, that is a disaster waiting to happen. That's not taking into account the 4 90 kilo blokes piling in and then what is more scary is what are they doing on the weekend. I know it sounds ridiculous but I almost think you should have to do some sort of driver training if you are going to 4wd or tow, I had to do this with the company I worked for as part of my employment contract many years ago.
It would be good if the commercial seller of the trailer took more responsibility with the instruction to the seller on loading and towing the item he is selling. The compliance Plates I think are inadequate because they come As a blank and anything can be embossed on the plate by the dealer without any documentation from the manufacturer.
As well as overloading, poor load placement can be just as bad for death sway, but "She'll be right, we're within the weight limit". This, and a 3t moving truck can be rented for under $100 a day. Caravans aren't freight carriers. Use the right stuff for the job.
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Do a google for "Mobile Weighing Services" they come to you and weigh you on flat ground.
Want to do it yourself buy "Reich Caravan Weight Control Orange 1500 kg" and "Tow Ball Weight Scale"
Love your videos
Imagine killing 2 people because you're a moron and you only get 4yrs..... make capital punishment great again!
As prime minister, or legendary RUclipsr amongst other roles, can you do this land a solid and print double sided. Or better yet, scrap the prehistoric-esk paper and 3 point shoot out to writing your notes on an iPad or similar? Thx thx 🙏
I used to work at a caravan/ trailer repair workshop. The amount of people who towed boats and caravans far beyond their vehicle's towing ability was staggering. I fondly remember a customer who bought a 3.5T boat and trailer combo in QLD and towed it back to Sydney with no working trailer brakes behind his Audi Q7. He was unhappy with the cost of getting the trailer brakes repaired because he had to get his Q7 brakes replaced by the Audi dealer... It's frankly amazing we don't see more accidents involving boat trailers and caravans.
I know - overloading is almost becoming a badge of honour...
Damn! My boat and trailer weigh 360kg combined. To paraphrase Roy Scheider "I'm gonna need a bigger boat".
My best friend still tells the story of him witnessing a Datsun 120 Y suffering catastrophic failure directly in front of the foundry that he was working in at the time. Surprisingly, the vehicle had made it a whole two kilometres before both the
engine and gearbox failed in unison, somewhat surprisingly to the driver.
Agreed....I have a bit of experience towing unbraked trailers and implements up to about that weight behind smaller tractors (approx 2500kg kerb weight) on vineyards.....even at lower speeds (
@@AutoExpertJC Audi Q7 braked towing capacity 3500kg. GCM 6440kg. This is not an example of “overloading”. The car was more than capable. Just really poor judgement doing it without operating trailer brakes.
Having been a law enforcement officer for over 30 years your video resurrected memories I’ve tried to suppress. Sounds like your appellate court judges reside in the real world. Justice was served.
Excellent video John. Folks need to realize there are consequences for stupidity and carelessness.
Ya, but, daammmn!
Not so sure about consequences of stupidity in fact it's kinda feeling like they're almost protected 😂 read your comment and I was a towie and i know wtf is going on when a blokes staring off into nowhere. Triggers are a barsted you probably also check the traffic so ya don't pass a crash. I get so bloody angry that so many vehicles go by speed cameras ect that well you know what I mean I'm sure. Let the copper copper 🤦 but same thing with licencing when i got my licence what did ppl tell me. Now you can go learn to drive and horrifically that wasn't a bloody joke. I became a bad hoon and a older hoon/bikie told me how it was. I started driving the truck on the week I'd lost my licence dealing with the cop who'd taken it every other day 😂 he never mentioned it. That bikie did something amazing letting us hoons work at the yard on our car's. My job included showing them enough to teach but yea only enough 😔 so my story is bikies hoons copper's and other responders standing around waiting as brothers 😢 together. So when it's hard keep adding numbers then think how many hiways town's. When we cry a massive absolutely enormous number of brothers shed a 😢 with us
Many years ago I used to work weekends at a servo and some clown showed up one day with a Pulsar wanting to rent a car float, and said he was going to tow a Falcon with it. I wouldn't let him take the trailer and I got in the poop for it. People have a very casual approach to overloading, it's terrifying.
I hope you don’t feel bad for being told off letting business go because you very well might have saved some lives. Most towbars have loading specs on them these days and if you can point out the inadequacies of their towing vehicle, you give them less reason to complain. Being able to explain for good reasons why the electric and mechanical trailer brake systems are not going to be adequate with their tow vehicle is educating them and making the highways safer for everyone …
@@chrisbraid2907 thanks mate, no I knew I was in the right and I certainly didn't want to be responsible for what could have happened if he did that. I explained to him why it was a bad, bad idea but he wasn't interested and complained to the boss. As I said it was just a weekend job so it didn't phase me too much. And to be honest he probably just went somewhere else and they let him have a trailer. Unfortunately you can't legislate against stupidity, but you certainly don't have to enable it either!
@@mahcooharper9577 I know this comment is a year on but...
If you did lend it out to him you would have been exposed to liability in case of an accident or even a fine (don't trailer hire places ask what you'll be using to tow the trailer with? I only hired one last month and I already forgot lol). You did the right thing though.
@deanchur they're supposed to yes, last time I hired one I booked it online and picked it up from a computer kiosk - it told me the capacity of the trailer but didn't ask what I was towing or even tell me I needed to stay under the capacity.
You're exactly right, I would have had some liability and so would the servo, and he could have killed someone I care about - it was a hard no from me lol
Hello John,
Greetings from Cumbria in the U.K.
I want to extend my condolences to the family’s relatives.
I lost my 28 year old son 9 years ago due to a car crash. He was stopped at a roundabout entry waiting for a clearing to get up and go.
A car being driven at extreme speed around the roundabout, hit the kerb followed by my son’s drivers side Kia C’eed. My son was in a coma for 5 days before passing away. Last November my wife passed away, too. She never got over the loss of our son.
There needs to be more talk about dangerous driving and people need to be shocked into action.
Thank you for posting this video john. Stay safe and well.
Yeah, the UK seems to be getting worse for outright dangerous and inconsiderate driving, I am guessing some of it is due to the almost complete lack of any enforcement. Hardly see any Police about now, and there appears to be no disincentives to this trend of bad driving. My car was destroyed by a drunk driver who was never brought to justice, it was only due the fact it was a Volvo that we were not badly injured.
The loss of one of our children is surely the worst pain to bear. No imagining or fear of such a tragedy can prepare you for this. Sincere sympathy and…..unfortunately, genuine understanding.
His name isJohn ! Not Steve?
@@damodoesall6240 good point. Thanks for pointing that out. I changed it.
I got a week ban off Facebook when I suggested that it was pure insanity that a person with no training or licence can hook up a 3.5T effluent box and piss off down to Dingo Piss Creek for a week.
Truly a protected species.
It was probably the manner in which you suggested it.
not more licences, dont give the government ideas to raise more revenue, this country is full of useless bureaucracy
I called someone a potato once for making a really dumb comment and got a week long posting ban. Funny thing is that was after I rephrased my comment with self censorship lol.
Don't worry, try talking about clueless put put ding dings in transport driving doubles and road trains and you get banned for a month at a time.
@@AutoExpertJC ain't that the woke way; being punished for hurting someone's feelings..
Excellent report JC.
As an experienced heavy vehicle driver I see this all the time with caravans.
Let’s not forget the family trailer boat that gets used as a “uhaul” to get the family and all their crap up to the rental beach shack on Australia Day etc.
Thank You John. You handled that commentary on such a difficult topic so very sensitively. I felt so very sorry for the unfortunate victims who died. When I bought and started towing a 3 tonne caravan exactly a year ago I spent endless hours watching videos like yours discussing towing weights. It was relatively easy for me as I love maths. I then spent six months working everything through correctly before I towed Perth to Adelaide in September. Of all the people I met I felt I was one of the very few who truly understood the equation. I had my situation confirmed by a full service caravan weighing expert on my arrival back into Perth. In my opinion it is neither LEGAL or INSURABLE to tow a 3 tonne plus caravan with a Landcruiser type tug without the vehicle undergoing a GVM upgrade and yet I can hardly get any of my towing colleagues to agree with me. I will definitely be sharing your video with them. My double apology for owning both a caravan and a Landcruiser. John B
It’s important to note that intent has little bearing here - Mr Russell had no intent to hurt anyone, the crime was committed because he failed in his duty of care as a driver by operating the vehicle in the grossly overloaded condition. You don’t have to know it’s overloaded, you don’t have to intentionally set out to break the law, but you can be charged and sent to gaol regardless if tragedy occurs.
Intent has no bearing on the CONVICTION but it has a lot of bearing on the SENTENCE. If the guy had been able to credibly claim that he had no reasonable way of knowing he was overloaded he may have been convicted, but he would not have gone to the slammer for four years.
ignorance is not an excuse.
My wife and I had been travelling around in a converted Nissan Civilian bus. When we realized it was not going to take us places where wanted to go, we went through a lengthy process of researching of what type of vehicle and or combination that would take us to those places and do it safely. We bought a 4x4 expedition truck that goes where you cannot take a caravan or camper trailer. We have seen far too many crashes involving caravans where loss of control was due to overloading and or excessive speed. The police have to start booking people to change this culture. It is illegal for heavy vehicle to tow a pig trailer that is heavier than the truck towing it. Cars or SUVs towing caravans that are heavier than the towing vehicle is just insanity.
As a lawyer, I like your explanation about the distinction between road rules (which are regulatory offences not involving a victim, and used to create DISCIPLINE among drivers) and crimes (usually involving VICTIMS). Very well explained.
Lawyer here too. This is not the first time this man’s legal explanations have impressed me.
I was somewhat amused about the reference to police activity -- "the police discontinued the chase just before the collision"
This video needs to go viral, There needs to be a system put in place where drivers of caravans or heavy trailers in general need a separate license to tow such vehicles.
"A mistake is only as small as the result it causes."
That's one of my personal favourite life lessons. It reminds me to consider the bigger picture, and not just the one in front of me at any given moment.
I had not heard that before, but it is an excellent way to view the severity of errors.
If it causes no harm, then no mistake.
@@user-ru2vu7cp9g feel free to explain why not.
@@user-ru2vu7cp9g are you seriously suggesting that a mistake is something that doesn't cause harm?
@BB49 I dont know but I think Rampart is just showing a logical falacy in the statement. Small result = small mistake ergo no result = no mistake. Dont misunderstand me I agree with the sentiment expressed in the saying.
So the van disconnected from the tow vehicle, hit the guard rail and had its contents "shotgunned all over the road" (odd turn of phrase to be using in court, but OK). I assume they determined its ATM by collecting the contents, along with the van wreck and weighing it all. What I don't understand is how they could determine that the towball down load limit was exceeded. For that they'd need to know how the contents were distributed in the van, and it's not clear how they could determine that.
they look at the deformation damage to the towbar and vehicle.
The van is overloaded. Even if the weight was correctly distributed, the tow ball weight would have been 80kg more than allowed. The tow ball weight is deducted from the vehicle's allowable load so you probably would be overweight in the vehicle with the boat, not to mention, four occupants and who knows what else was in the vehicle, without reading the court documents.
I have seen a couple of overload scenarios that will stay with me for a while. I pulled into a truck stop to see an old jackaroo pulling a GQ patrol on a car trailer. This particular model (the same as mine at the time) had a towing capacity of 2250kgs and a 120kg ball load. The patrol and trailer would have been 3000kgs easily. He told me the car didn’t know it was there…I have also seen a commodore wagon towing an 80 series on a trailer pulled over by the cops on a motorway. Just crazy.
As a family who tows an old van up, down, and all over the place, I gotta say I appreciate all the helpful advice you offer so we can improve the experience and be more mindful of our mechanical limitations.
I swear I dream about weight distribution for a week before we set off.
So sad that fellas holiday turned into such a clusterfuck. I feel terrible for everyone involved.
I'll guarantee he feels worse. I'd have probably spared him jail, even the prison showers "gorillas in the mist" experience pales into insignificance next to what his own mind will do to him for the rest of his life.
@@rosiehawtrey yup, can't imagine wanting to carry on but we ain't all wired up the same, some blokes always find a way of feeling sorry for themselves so gorillas in the mist it is.
@@rosiehawtrey not sure how I feel about punishment, all I know is, lives got lost and that's a whole lot of pain forever for some people.
@@zopEnglandzip Them frequent visitor points leave me to believe he isn't too much of a thinker
@@gavinb9627 missed that bit, was he already on first name terms with the concierge before this stay?
I'm watching from Denver, Colorado, US.
We don't have as many caravans (or trailer-campers, as they're known here) but your video contains many valuable lessons. Thank you.
One thing you have missed in the overloading issue is the availability of moving trailers. I hired one a while back and stuffed it to the lid. I was about 2ks into a 145k trip when I realised that it was more than the tow vehicle (2003 4.8 Nissan Patrol with 3.5t tow capacity) was OK with. Unloaded some of it and was good to go. The problem is most people would just keep going.
That was sensible.
Good on you 👍. Even tho it says 3500 towing capability common sense must be used.
5:10 John, I once worked for a small transport company that serviced the Bilo/Moura/Banana/Mt Morgan/and central QLD coalfields regions from Rockhampton.
I witnessed the owner of the business picking up 4 tonnes of laminated board from the distributor 100 metres up the road, and then driving that truck from there to the depot with the entire 4 tonnes on the passenger side of the tray with nothing else on board, negotiating steeping driveway angles etc. That same truck would then be loaded with more freight and sent off to Bilo or Emerald. Usually 7 to 8 tons on a six-ton body truck.
I had a run-in with him when he threatened to fire me for getting a 'down to wires and canvas' rear tyre replaced before I returned from Bilo with 6 tonne of freight on board, most of it hay, so the load was sitting high. I got back to the depot and he started yelling at me about how he decides what is roadworthy, not the Transport department. So, after a fourteen-hour day on the road that should have only been six, I grabbed him by the ear and physically dragged him by said ear under the truck to look at the tyre I'd replaced. He stormed back into the office and there was a huge argument between his daughter, the logistics manager and him. I did hear her say, "If you want to kill someone, drive the truck yourself! But don't make MY drivers operate unsafe trucks!"
After that day he wouldn't talk to me or touch my (his) truck. I had to load it myself, partly based on the tyre incident, and when he pierced a 20-litre drum of hydrochloric acid with his fork tines and it spilt over the entire load one night (7pm) when loading my truck for my 2am start. It took me four hours to clean up the mess and make it safe. I banned him from loading it ever again. I only dealt with his daughter after that.
I had a boss like that, and told him where to get off. Phoned me the next day, and asked me to please come back.
I worked for a courier company and I was at one of my regular pick ups (1 pallet weighing about 800 KGs) and this new guy comes in after me and they place a smaller 300 KG load on the back of his ute and he proceeds to secure his load with occy straps.... lol. The forklift driver and I just looked at each other stunned..... we stopped him from leaving and informed our company......
@@robdotcom71 What are occy straps?
@@BubblesTheCat1Bungy cords, by another name. Definitely NOT a load restraint, in any vehicle loading code, despite the advertising.
@@michaelguerin56 Ok thanks. Here in South Africa people will use anything, even string to tie down stuff. No laws against it, or repercussions.
I have no comment on Mr Russell but it’s a bloody tragedy that its typically it’s the innocent people who get killed or injured from these scenarios.
My sister is now confined to a wheelchair because some waste of life was attempting to drift their XE falcon on a country road.
It's crazy to believe retirees can go out buy a big bertha caravan with their Super money just because they want to do one-upmanship at the caravan parks. when in their life they never every tow a box trailer before buying a caravan. Their should be a up-grade system to your drivers licence if you want to tow 2 tons. They do it with truck licences. Why not your car licence.
Some years ago I was walking with the wife when we came across a yachtie that had been pulled over. His boat was a very large unit which looked like it wouldn't have been out of place in the Sydney to Hobart race. He was towing it with a Subaru Brumby!!! Not sure about the weight of the yacht but without exaggeration it was 4 times the length of the Brumby and half as wide again. I could clearly hear him telling the police "but I've always pulled it with this"
Guy is a LEGEND!
Why oh why is there not a special licence required in order to be able to tow anything bigger than a dog transport?
I assisted in administering First Aid to a lad who'd torn his WRX in half on the road between Emu Park and Rockhampton one night in the early 2000s. He'd lost it on a wide, sweeping bend. It had been raining, so his myriad lacerations were getting cleaned, and the fire his engine started on the other side of the road stayed under control. There were car parts strewn for over 150 metres, and he was still strapped into his belt in what was left of the cabin. Anyway, I knew he would survive. He was too wasted to suffer any serious injuries (you know, floppy drunk body thing). Nine months later, after I'd all but forgotten about the incident, there was news article in the local paper where he'd been charged with dangerous driving, DUI, undue care, speeding etc. Thankfully he didn't kill anyone.
I was in a rollover in the early 80s that nearly killed me (drunk). I didn't know if anyone else was in the car when I came out of the three-day coma I was in. It took another 24 hours to find out I was the sole occupant. That was the very worst (even worse than my soulmate dying) experience I've ever endured. 24 hours not knowing if I'd killed anyone, or how many. The last memory of that day I had, I was in another car, driving, and picking up two hitch-hikers who squeezed into the Monaro that me and my three mates were in. I was driving. The crash happened in another car, some 6 hours after that last memory.
I know this little tale of mine won't make the ten-foot and bulletproof think (I was that lad) but I hope it gives at least one younger driver food for thought.
More accidents are caused by sober drivers 🤔
@@Rampart.X there far more sober drivers statistically at given time than drunk drivers, so what is your point? That drunk drivers are safer? That's a fallacy..
@@telcobilly you don't know how many drink drivers, drugged drivers and incompetent drivers unless you test them. The brain dead, reflexive parroting of government statistics is fallacious. We all know it's highway robbery, revenue raising. Drink drivers are not the problem. BAD drivers are the problem. Admittedly, bad drivers are probably worse after a few drinks because alcohol aggravates their arrogant attitude. Good drivers, on the other hand, are not adversely affected by some alcohol and I will assert that they are better than sober BAD drivers.
I'm sorry but it sounds like you need to get professional help over your experiences.
@@nomyafiftyonefifty8081 Why? Because I randomly drunk-comment about my experiences related to vehicle crashes? Nah, mate. Just passing on experience in the vain hope that someone reads it and thinks more about the message than my mental health. What I related in the previous comment is really nothing compared to what I've seen. That's a gentle introduction. Try to imagine an old-style guard rail going sideways through the driver's side door of a Falcon sedan at about diaphragm/chest height. 'Professional help' doesn't erase that stuff, mate. It's brutally ugly.
Well said John, most caravan drivers are unaware of their responsibilities with towing.
Keep up the great work.
Richard
Thank you John. We never hear the true and tragic details of car crashes. Your explanation of the multiple follies, should have every parent grab their kids to watch your warning. Even we adults need to be reminded of the profound risks to life in operation of cars and tows.
I live in Central West NSW, so a caravan mecca, especially during the Bogan Mecca known as the Bathurst 1000, and the number of times I've seen obviously overloaded caravans is unbelievable. How do I know they're overloaded? The tow vehicle's headlights are pointing at the sky. What ticks me off is I oft see the RMS with their mobile heavy vehicle checking stations pulling trucks over, but ignoring caravans. I've always said that before one can buy a caravan they need to do a course and have a license, even if they were a truckie in a previous life, and their tow vehicle needs to be checked. Also I feel they need to be checked at weigh stations and mobile heavy vehicle checking stations, like trucks are.
it's all about the $$$$$$$$
Thanks for this video JC, hopefully it gets through to people who are knowingly overloaded and makes them really think about the possible outcomes if things turn to shit.
Thank You John - this is the type of conversation that needs to be had with all of us, being complacent comes so easily.
With the weight of some people i reckon there are many small cars overloaded just with the people in them
Great report John. Surely this highlights the need for anyone towing something behind there vehicle needs to get a licence just like a truck driver and be subject to the same rules and regulations as overloaded and incorrectly loaded caravans and trailers is a very common problem .
Just a few weeks ago I followed a single cab tray ute, clearly overloaded with what looked like paving sand, unable to accellerate up an on ramp onto Eastlink. I chose to follow well behind and as we approached 80kph the fishtailing began. Fortunately they had enough sense to lift their foot off the accellerator and pull over into the emergency lane. "She'll be right mate" has become a plague.
Lifting the foot off the accelerator can actually make it worse. I experienced trailer sway many years ago and I was lucky to learn a couple of tricks as well as executing one that I had heard about. I kept the foot down and accelerated out of the sway and then slowed down carefully. But best to not get into the situation in the first place.
John there was a case in northern Tasmania a few years ago where a guy towing a heavy trailer whicj=h he had not bothered to fix the safety chains , parted company and wiped out a mini bus and killed 2 people- the guy is cooling his heels in goal.
In Western Australia, you can weigh your rig FOR FREE by driving through the weighbridge at any of the grain depots throughout the wheatbelt. You just drive on, and a red LCD display shows the weight and you drive off. And just to encourage people to use them, outside of harvest time, there won’t usually be anyone else looking at the scale, so it is confidential, as well.
A rare, intelligent solution. Should be available for hitched SUV drivers too.
@@Rampart.X Yes, it is available to anyone. I have used those weighbridges to check a ute and trailer weight, and also a truck weight, in the past. I don’t own a caravan.
It’s a bit late if you have already driven half way to your destination, weigh at a grain site, only to find that you are overweight - how are you going to fix it then ? Fix it before you get on the road, not afterwards.
Thanks for that report John. A lot of people with caravans or boat trailers need to hear that.
Yer but most never listen cos they have been doing it for years and nothing went wrong but you only need that one time for hell to brake lose and your screwed
I believe carmakers should be held accountable for all the false and misleading information about towing 3.5 tonne as well
@@waynehewett4017 Yes if they say the car can tow 3.5 tonnes they need to spell out all the limitations.
@@rais1953 car makers only care about selling thier products to anyone who has the money
Even a land cruiser and Nissan patrol are suitable to tow 3.5 tonne
But more ideally your Ford f150 ,250 and 350 or a 3 to 5 tonne truck would be mote suitable and safe as a towing vehicle
All the other Ute's on the market are just accidents waiting to happen
Even the Ford Ranger
Personally I think is stupid to tow 3.5 tonne unless it's by a truck or one of the Ford F series Ute range
I was told the towing vehicle had to be at least the weight of the loaded trailer behind it or more
Towing is dangerous at the best of times with out road conditions ,been tired or overloading or uneven weight distribution etc
I'm surprised that there aren't more accidents like this happening more regularly
Ok let's let's start with ABOUT FU#@ING TIME.
I've driven road-trains for way too many years and have been amazed how trucks are targeted when it comes to weights and have always been so fu@#ing angry to see so many overloaded vans with no consequences. I feel this guy should have gotten two life sentences for the people he killed. Especially for the fact that (based on your report) he was a truck driver and thus knew better.
I have just brought a 4X4 hybrid van and we do mostly beaches and Forrest trips. I weigh the van and car separately as well as in combination every trip. I have been amazed how many people have no idea what their weights are and also amazed how much I get told I'm a fucking wanker for weighing it. How ever I think this episode shows how the $60 is fucking worth it.
Excellent episode mate 👍👍
The weighbridges in my city are at every rubbish transfer station.
Drive in, get weighed, drive out over the weighbridge again..
pay $15 as the minimum charge....
all good;
receipt has the weights....
OK HERO HA HA
Now let's gaol truck drivers who tailgate cars driving under the speed limit. You know you do it. It's illegal and dangerous yet I've never heard of anyone being prosecuted, let alone incarcerated.
@@Rampart.X start with every wanker with a bullbar on their tuppatruck (4x4 ute) first
The trucking industry sh!t in it's own nest by operating well over the limits for decades, and if like you claim you have been an operator in the transport industry for many years, you well know this, it has set a precedence in which the government was forced to create a whole department to control the problem, and as anyone who has had any dealings with the government, once a governmental department is in place, it's here to stay. I'm sure when enough people or important enough people die from over loaded caravan incidentes, they will have the appropriate amount of attention placed apon them.
After years of consideration, I recently put a metaphorical line through "get a caravan one day" and struck it from my bucket list. Once the FJ and rooftop tent have worn out their welcome, I'll get a campervan or some other kind of all-in-one vehicle.
Sounds like a plan.
Yep, it's a much better idea to get the travelling abode bolted to a truck / bus chassis & engine combo pulling a smaller run about vehicle for when you get to each way point.
That decision could save your life.
Had the misfortune as a volunteer Firefighter to have to go clean up the aftermath of such caravan/boat incidents here in NZ. Never a pretty sight usually some innocent person traveling in the opposite direction gets taken out but the fishtailing caravan/boat. NZ roads are very narrow and windy with lots of hills perfect recipe for this sort of tragedy.
*aftermath
@@Mike-me3sp thanks
Great video John, I love to tow our dunny behind us and have spent a lot of time and money keeping it legal. Thanks for doing this video. Really makes you think and hopefully will save this from happening again. 👍
I was going to make light of your love of caravans, but changed my mind part way through. Having been involved in the forensic process of road trauma, this is too serious an issue for that. McMansions on wheels, that everyone seems to want, allow people to carry way too much stuff. Whilst this was a case of negligence on behalf of the driver, we need to stop making vans bigger and bigger as this is the end result. We personally travel with a small off-road camper trailer (no effluent carrying capacity) when we go to dingo piss creek and are constantly amazed at all the giant vans we find ourselves surrounded, by wobbling all over our roads.
Agreed - I just returned from a trip to Fraser Island and the number of massive caravans swaying around was frightening. I towed a 650kg camper trailer behind my ute so no issues there.
Thanks John. Your sincerity is only matched by your intelligence and insight. I’d vote for ya!
Such an important topic. Your advice about attending a public weigh bridge is really good. It’s the very first step responsible caravan owners should take to ensure they know the tare weight of the van before starting to load it up for a trip. And take note of the weight of item’s being loaded into the van.
It still amazes me the amount of vans and trailers you see being towed which are quite obviously overloaded.
I am a b double driver. There are many big companies in Australia that demand a weigh bridge test and carried printout of the weigh bridge test for the entire journey. Failure to show the weigh bridge test certificate will mean you are banned from all the company's sites nationwide. Over loading is not a joke to blue chip organisations so it should start dripping down.
@@davidshepherd1107 Totally agree.
The skunkworks t-shirt did not go unmissed. Nice. Kelly Johnson, a genius in any sense of the word.
Quite. Legend.
13:55 Yep, commenting as I watch. I've seen way too much road trauma in my days on the road. I drive with the thought in mind that every other person behind the wheel of the steel killing machines around me is trying to kill me. I NEVER assume someone is going to do what you would expect at an intersection or roundabout. On the highway, when vehicles are approaching, I look for 'outs' on the left or right, just in case the approaching driver drifts into my lane. n suburban traffic I keep an eye on what's happening not only directly in front of me, but five cars in front if possible. I stop at lights etc far enough behind vehicles to see their rear wheels over my bonnet. I do the 2-second or 3-second rule on the road. I even use indicators properly. In the city, I won't turn on the radio unless it has traffic reports. Yep, I'm a driver nerd. I even maintain my own vehicle. Driving on the road inside your death machine is a serious responsibility. It takes a fraction of a second for your road trip adventure, or mundane commute to change to a tragedy.
Having written all that, I'll just add that I abhor drivers who do 90kmh before a passing zone, and then proceed to do 110 through the zone, only to slow down again once the lane closes. Those people shit me to tears.
The overtaking zone zombies drive me crazy also. Have they not heard of cruise control which will maintain a reasonably constant speed.
As someone who regularly tows and have gone to the trouble of weighing my vehicle/trailer combination, I would suggest that getting access to a weigh scale for your 4wd and trailer should be easier. From where I live (North East metro Perth) the nearest public weigh bridge is 33km one way and is unreliably available. 66km round trip potentially overloaded, seems sub-optimal.
Maybe as part of a national road safety campaign weigh stations could be installed at several service stations or car washes, coin operated perhaps?
Thanks for the info John. Just wanted to say if the driver was an experienced truck driver he should have had an accurate working knowledge of the weights and measures of the vehicles he was in control of and should have been charged with 2 counts of Manslaughter instead of just the negligent charges. Sorry for the lack of commas etc but am slightly worked up over this. Cheers Mark
It amazes me how many people are driving around overloaded just in their 4x4s. There is surprisingly not alot of weight wriggle room especially in wagons.
You can bolt on so much crap now...
Put a steel bull bar and a winch on the front. Weigh the front axle.
Add the weight of two average adults in, and the result is often that it is overweight on the front axle. That is regardless of any other bit of gear that gets added.
You're absolutely correct. The. only way to get it right and accurate, is to load up your beast with everything you'll be taking with you (including extra water fuel and water, passenger weight etc, . . .) and drive down to a public weighbridge, weigh it and check against your GVM.
Peace of mind and a clean conscience, not to mention having to worry about the boys in blue or your insurance. cover.
Thanks again John.
This is one of the most important videos you have done.
@@commonsense-grs You can pick the good caravaners easily. There van is either on or behind a truck, not a 4WD.
“She’ll be right.” The Aussie motto that drives these accidents waiting to happen.
To be fair it's not the overloading that kills you, it's how you treat that weight. If you ignore the wobble because you think it's someone else problem, or maybe you've got an electronic gizmo that will fix it, either way these are the things that bite you. I doubt an overloaded vehicle has ever crashed when they've driven at speeds safe for those conditions. Legal ramifications, different story
@@salem9477 I know what your saying. Moving along overloaded is ok but stopping and avoiding obstacles are the issue. It’s all good until it’s not.
I've been putting together my new 'home and workshop on wheels' over the past 12 months, and EVERY decision I make on what to add to the ute, weight is at the forefront. I want to stay well under the rated loads for both the ute and the essential trailer. I'll be running a mobile 'bush' workshop as well as living in the ute, so I have to be very careful about my gear decisions.
This is one of the best videos you’ve done, John.
I did a few years as a first responder (volunteer) and some of the MVAs I saw first hand were frightening.
I really wish there was more education enforced on drivers than this laser focus on speed being the major issue (not saying it’s not), but seriously, people need to understand just how badly things can go when you F around on the road.
Want a license? Learn the physics and prove it with a offensive / defensive driving course. And get your first aid cert. Learn how ti maintain a car etc etc.
Want to tow? Learn how to tow by doing an accredited towing course, and get your van/boat etc weighed yearly.
Renewing your rego? Get your car inspected and ensure it’s safe.
Renewing your license? Time for a re-test and update on the rules.
After what I’ve seen, I’d vote for all of the above to be written in in to law.
Gday John thanks for sharing this video on such a serious topic. Your closing comments really does show how much of a problem overloading is in this country not to mention the dismissive attitude of those who should really know better. Thanks so much for sharing this. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
While I understand that ignorance of the law is not a defence, I imagine the court would have considered that this bloke was a truck driver & should known about load limits more than the average punter!
I think that was considered.
A few years ago in early January my wife and I did a road trip from Sydney to Melbourne going the pretty way, around the coast on country roads which sometimes were not all that great. As usual when travelling abroad (eg 'merrika) I discovered that the speed limits were only for foreign tourists. Despite sticking to the speed limits (+5 to 10%) I was amazed at the number of speeding vehicles that overtook us that were towing caravans and trailers. The said combos then fishtailing off into the distance at alarming rate of knots. It was quite often like being in a Whacky Races cartoon!
Licencing for any braked trailer.
Also, some enforcement around the works of fiction caravan compliance plates typically are.
Hot tip:
Take your van empty to a weigh bridge and find out exactly what it weighs. Then take it home and carefully add weight to be within some arbitrary margin of the maximum loading. Say 50kg or so, ensuring you fill the various tanks and gas bottles etc.
Take it back down to the weighbridge and double check your weights are correct including GTM and ATM. Then assuming everything is in spec, measure the distance between the drawbar and the ground at a specific point and the chassis and the ground at a specific point such as the rear spring hangars.
You now have a proxy for the weight in the van. All you need to do is make sure that the towball weight is the same (can by inexpensive scales for that) and that the drawbar is at the correct height. You can then measure the distance at the rear to see if the load imposed is above or below the max determined earlier, or within a margin of error that means you should reconsider what you're doing.
My father had hernia surgery so I did the driving as a driver with about 2 years experience. Renault Safrane 2.5 auto pulling a 16ft van and my dad is the type who checks weights and measurements, balances what's where, as best you can, so off we go. Final destination Switzerland. So we're on the autoroute somewhere in Garlicstan and we're on a long downward hill, but it's shallow enough that no one noticed, car is smooth as silk as usual. All of a sudden the whole thing starts to wriggle and I'm wondering what the hell is happening - scan across the dash - and everything is green, temp, oil pressure, rpm and then I see the speedo. *85mph.* I very carefully take my foot off the throttle and I know enough not to even look at the brakes wrong, the car coasts down until its stable again and the cruise goes on at 65mph.
*Its not just overloading that can kill* when you are towing *anything*. I still don't know how that combination stayed stable up to almost 90mph (although we did have some sort of jointed spring gadget that locked into the van and dropped into a carrier on the tow bar) but I'm betting if dad hadn't loaded it carefully it wouldn't have. We've seen idiots towing little empty trailers on motorways and the trailers are doing a passable impression of an ekranoplan - they're flying a foot off the road on the airflow from under the towcar..
I am a very experienced Heavy Vehicle driver and has driven vast distances over a lifetime , have constantly been amazed seeing so many " light vehicles " towing heavy loads and being overloaded . A 4 wheel drive vehicle with a lot of extras along with a full cabin is already at capacity . But most people cannot understand this !
I lived on a round-a-bout in Rosewater (Adelaide). We heard a v8 car racing around and also sirens. The police chase came down our street. The V8 Monaro tried to turn at the off camber round-a-bout and lost control. It speared off into a park and bounced off several trees. By the time it stopped the police were already there, sirens all the way. Next day in the news it was reported the chase was called off minutes earlier. No it wasn't. We had a ring side seat from our front garden.
police tell a fib? say it ain't so..
What's this gotta do with overweight towing?
@@biingyin5522 Cadogan talked about police calling off chases when it got too dangerous; did you watch the whole video?
At the end of the day if you are being chased by the cops and ‘screw the pooch’ it’s your fault not theirs.
Same. I saw a police chase through red-lights, in the rain. The speeder went through first, then I went across the path of the road when the lights were green and was barely missed by a police car in pursuit. The speeder crashed and the cops were literally about 5 seconds behind.
Channel 10 reported that the police were not in a pursuit but arrived on the scene of the crash soon after.
This is why we hate them.
Great video John. Thank you for your summation of a very difficult topic.
Thank you for this video.
As a full-time traveller, we are very conscious of weights.
We talk to other travellers and a lot do not give a flying Fuck about their weights. The amount of overloaded car and caravan combinations we see daily is beyond belief.
Wake up caravan operators weight matters.
This report should be regarded as an eye opener, and if you fail to adhere to the rules in regards to weights and overloading well, the next step is either death or jail time.
Great video, as always.
“Your Worship” old school, I love it. In NSW we only “Honour” now. It’s always a tragedy when the legal system leaves someone behind.
Hey John, thank you for sharing your knowledge with us all. I know when it came to going on my own adventure away, I made sure to make it a priority to comply with weights etc. Something I wouldn't have considered beforehand, so thanks again
I just came down the M1 from Newy to Sydney this afternoon. Passed a port-a-hovel rig. The consist was an older BT-50 hitched to the mobile effluent carrier happy ending equivalent, a Retreat Daydreamer. The Daydreamer is a two axle pig trailer and it looked a weighty beast. The old BT-50 was loaded up to the gunnels under the canopy on the tray. One look at it screamed overloaded. I was thinking JC would be all over this bad old boy.
When I got home, I opened up RUclips and lo and behold up pops this sobering and excellent report. I looked up the weight of the Daydream shit-toir (spelling?) - can be up to 3500kg. Didn’t pass the IQ test to me. They Are Out There. Overloaded caravans like a pox upon our highways. Well done JC for this report. It should be compulsory viewing for every van owner and new van buyer. Yes - and make weigh bridge certificates for each rig law.
Cheers
Mark
Driving back from the south coast a couple of years back we were driving up the steep hill on the Sydney side of the Picton turn off just after Mt Ousley. To the surprise of my son and I the tour bus full of people near the top of the hill had it’s rather large trailer decide that it wanted a conscious uncoupling.
The weather was drizzling as usual for this area and the trailer came careering down the hill at us and the rest of the Sunday afternoon traffic.
Cars were quickly forcing their way into the other lane as the trailer went uncontrollably down the road.
I know it’s a different situation but it makes you wonder just how much training people towing vehicles have had before taking off down our highways.
I never saw the result of this piece of negligence but there needs to be more scrutiny of people towing behind vehicles.
Thanks for the reporting on this negligence & bringing awareness to the public & Ps I’m curious how many baskets u made
As a first responder that attends things like this. Heed this man's fucking words!
4 Year is not enough Two people are dead and one seriously injured. Thanks john for the report hope people will take this info and stop overloading their vehicles or towing overloaded.
Great video John.
The CCA is its own Court and not part of the Supreme Court. Its decisions do, however, set precedents which bind other courts to. In other words, their decision of when the dangerous driving started is now the standard for a situation of similar facts, ie overloaded combination.
I used to go on caravan holidays as a kid with my grandparents and still remember the fuss my grandad made with loading the van. He showed me where to find the max weight and then how to load it safely, we never had any issues but it always stuck with me. Nowadays I can't see the point in taking the family you can't wait to get away from from a big box, put them all.in a small box, drive for 3 hours and then park in a muddy field..
Back when dinosaurs were a thing my army driving instructor said you wouldn't do dumb shit with a loaded weapon. Don't do dumb shit with a heavy vehicle. It's going to kill people just as dead.
Thanks for the enlightenment.
Regards Tony
Awesome public service John. Many people make poor decisions without thinking about the consequences. Unfortunately in my line of work I meet many of these type of individuals which can be very depressing.
Absolutely tragic JC. I am lost for any more words.
Excellent journalism..
Great content. As an engineer who spends my time simulating fatigue and impact capacity of structures, I always wonder how much more money than sense someone must have to lumber their poor vehicle with the cost, weight and wind resistance of a caravan. It's worth people knowing that approx twice the load = twice the stress = one eighth of the fatigue life. The relationship is cubic (but with much statistical scatter). And worse if anything yields.
Cubic? YIKE.
I hate caravans too but here I am. It makes sense that dangerous driving begins at the moment you decide to drive a overloaded caravan/boat/whatever. Its our responsibilty to make sure we're not overweight. Ignorance of the law is not a defence.
I consider myself incredibly lucky. My very first job required me to tow heavy trailers.
It just so happened that the leading hands that were assigned with the task of alleviating
my youthful ignorance both had HA licenses and extensive experience.
Both of them were also fairly seasoned bikers. Needless to say, I received a very good education with regards to safe towing practices, and they're lessons that I'll never forget.
I've seen a couple of mobile weighing businesses around that weigh every part of your vehicle and van separately including tow ball weight. I was watching this at a boat ramp car park on a quiet day. Worth the money.
As soon as you said catastrophic roof failure, I immediately thought of every vehicle with a GVM upgrade. Fine whilst on it's wheels but what happens to the structural integrity of the roof when all that extra weight is forced upon it in a roll over. Hmm very interesting and highly concerning.
Valid point. I have never thought of it like that. When the mass of the vehicle is 20%(avg) above that of which the manufacturer tests for in certain crash situations. 🤔
@@MrM1CHA3L yes a GVM upgrade consists of load carrying capacity. Yet the roof is a load bearing structure, including rollover protection. That as you stated has been designed for the maximum GVM from factory. To increase GVM without increasing the structural integrity of the roof/ cabins roll-over protection seems highly negligent. I'm a nobody and can see this, surely every single "engineer" who approves of such upgrades would most certainly have to be aware of. Buildings are over engineered here because if it fails it falls back on the engineer. Obviously this isn't the case in the automotive industry. Until some bean counter/lawyer from an insurance company figures out the obvious flaw in our current laws.. I see trouble on the horizon for anyone who has increased their vehicles GVM
GVM increases are a complete hack.
I know it's a different vehicle and a different set of circumstances, my brother-inlaw years ago was driving a truck with a 26000KG limit (this is in the UK) and when he got to the place to dispose of the waste material he was carrying he was actually at 38000KG. The weight check guy thought the scales had a problem because of the the weight shown, it was spot on. Imagine the fine if he was caught.
John, I was driving home from the tip one day and saw this car and trailer coming towards me getting very very loose and flicking side to side. Just as I was getting the hell off the road it went past me and did the death flicks and spun the guy around. Did a u bolt and it was a 6x4 chock full of dirt (well it was, lots all over the road) and one wheel and hub axle bent at 45 degrees. So it can happen on a 6x4.
Poor guy crapped himself.
Experienced truck driver mate, Appeals court would have taken this into account. Realising Mr Russell knew the system and knew too well the vehicle was overloaded knowing that there wasn't a requirement to be weighed at a safety weighing station, he was playing the system. This is why the book was thrown at him. Same reason companies use these oversized vans with trailers registered as cars to avoid the need to use log books with restricted hours and no need for weighing stations, gaming the system is nothing new.
Not just the weight but where it is in the van. Even a couple of bicycles dangling of the back of a small van can be a recipe for disaster.
Every 30cm behind the axle additional weight has 3 times the effect...
so 20kg of bikes and rack= 60kg in effect...
Now I simply never want to do any heavy towing and can't with my current vehicle. Thanks for this video as it was sobering listening.
In most countries, the "Driver" is responsible for ensuring compliance. Some crimes are "Vehicle owner" of course. If in doubt - weigh it. I was sent to the wharf 30 years ago as an owner driver to collect two containers "Weighing 12 tonne each". Truck wouldn't get out of 1st gear. Stumbled to the weighbridge at the port - 25 tonnes each! - 62 tonnes all up with a legal limit of 40. Made them unload me. Hateful, dishonest trucking companies.
Dear John: In 2021, I had a chance to realize a lifelong dream and drive across U.S.A from Myrtle Beach, South Carolina to Stinson Beach, California, exploring many famous fossil and mineral localities along the way and engaging with, mainly, rural Americans. I took Interstate highways and scenic byways alike. Next to that minority of truckers who drove terribly--not knowing what "keep right except to pass" meant, and the ones pushing double trailers, the R.V.er's with their caravans were the bane of the roadtrip. I have no idea whether their vehicles and regalia were overloaded, but their driving skills were decidedly underpowered making them, even more than the truckers, a menace to society in general and my Subaru Forester in particular. I truly feel sorry for Mr. Russell not so much because he'll endure four years in an Oz slammer, but for the regret ( and bad karma ) he has incurred from stupidity far more than malice. Nice report, John. So when are you going to review the Subaru Forester Wilderness. It's no WRX, but you'll have fun driving it.
An educational video - as always. Well done! I don't know what the theory syllabus for learner drivers is today, but when I did mine, there was nothing about towing, and certainly nothing about vehicle loading and weight management (sadly, which I need not only for my vehicle). If this isn't in the syllabus today, it sounds like there should be.. Or, maybe a license issued doesn't allow the driver to tow until the driver has done an endorsement covering the theory and a practical assessment pf weight management and towing?
John, I am a fan, this is the best video that you have ever made. In my opinion. If this is a legal precedent then a majority of caravaners are illegal. I watched a caravan manufacturer owner take his wife in a loaded Land Cruiser GR with a "3.5 tonne" caravan with video to show what they had inside. I would have loved to have seen that vehicle on a weigh bridge . This is a premium manufacturer. Bonkers. Compare that to an Adelaide manufacturer/ dealer who advised me to buy an American Ute with 4.5t towing for any caravan above 3t.
This video needs to go viral as overloading causes breakdown delays, frustration to other drivers due to slow driving, stuff flying off roof bars, poor braking ability causing shunts, greater capacity to lose control of the vehicle .......... Overloading causes problems to other road users and it should be better policied.
Most people have no idea how heavy they are loaded it's scary. By the way bull bar saved my ute again on Saturday from a kangaroo just saying 👍
John, thank you. Having been an avid caravaner and always striving to be legal (which was not always successful) like you, I urge anyone who is contemplating towing anything of weight PLEASE CHECK YOUR NUMBERS AND CONFIRM BY USING A WEIGH-BRIDGE.
THIS IS SERIOUS SH!T……
Hi John.
I obtained my Motorcycle License in 1985 and the test was cursory at best.
Thankfully, the requirements for obtaining a Motorcycle License in 2023 are much more rigorous.
No doubt, road trauma statistics involving motorcyclists played a key role in the introduction of these requirements and their subsequent review as the years have passed.
A new Motorcyclist, even though they may have driven a vehicle for many years, are still required to undertake the nessesary education and training in order to obtain their Motorcycle License.
I'm not against Caravans or the people that enjoy that form of travel but I hope trauma statistics are not the key indicator that enforces change to education and training requirements for those who intend to be at the helm of an articulated mass containing, in many cases, a GCM of 4 tonnes or more.
0:47 oh no no, I hate caravans too but I do love to learn(as an aspiring mech engineer) and I love your delivery
Started my working career in factorys and did not see much of the outside world, then I started doing onsite maintenance which was either local or country NSW.
I was staggered by the lack of critical thinking being used in industry and by the rolling deathtraps on the road, either lack of knowledge or I do not give a crap.
How long has Drink driving advertising and RBT been on TV and people still do it and in high numbers, Mobile Phone handling while driving because people have the attention span of a TikTok video.
You can not educate idiots or the I don't care crowd, your concern about this issue works on the people that care but is forgotten in seconds by the morons who may or may not have a license.
bingo; I tooted a moron who was weaving around like a drunk, because he was texting on his phone and he became furious with my intervention and went full on road rage at me, swerving and brake checking..
Hello John.
Re towing.
I had a mate who built his own combo horse float/caravan. He pulled it with a F100 which he had specially modified with fuel wheels and a goose neck hitch for his float. He had his float specially built with 2 axles at the rear. I don't know the weight distribution etc but it travel well. No load in the truck and the comfort of the horses in rear of the float was his major concern. Gordon
Be careful, one of the problems I have had with hiring trailers is the trailer weight is rusted out or has a rivet through the label making it almost unreadable. The staff (petrol station) have no clue. These trailers are made to stand extreme abuse and are very, very heavy and for a basic car allow very little extra load , with a large double axle trailer this can be as little as only an extra 200 kg load.
Yes, I did notice this when looking at moveyourself or some such. On the website, the 5x7 unbraked caged was the same as the 6x4 with only 200kgs of load instead of 350kg. So the more room, the less weight, that's a potential recipe for disaster.
That's a good report there john. I'm not surprised at the fact that people are towing overloaded caravans/trailers. There's a tv commercial I fondly remember from a few years back and don't ask my how it got on tv without criticism but it was the advertisement for the RG series two Holden trailblazer from what I can remember. It shows the Holden trailblazer driving on a country road with two adults and a young boy in the back about the age 8. They come up to a slower vehicle towing a caravan and they overtake, as they're overtaking, the boy looks over at the caravan being overtaken and says "Bloody caravanners" and the ad ends in a line pretty much saying "The new Holden trailblazer, let's go there". I don't know if you remember that ad but it was a fair assessment. There's also many people who make the mistake of towing an unladen caravan that breaches the vehicles towing capacity thus straining the vehicle. Most caravanners are good but more education is needed. One expression I was told by somebody and it will apply to almost anything including those who try and overcomplicate things when loading their caravans and towing vehicles. It's called the KISS strategy. It spells, "Keep It Simple Stupid"! That also should be taught to car manufacturers that overcomplicate the design and engineering of their vehicles, you'd agree with that John. Lastly I send out my condolences the families of those two people who were killed in that tragic but avoidable accident highlighted in this episode. Also condolences to the third person who suffered potentially life altering injuries in the accident as well. Caravanners, you've been warned!
I ink a guy that got a new van and the dealer would not let him pick it up unless he had a Landcruiser or patrol because of the towing weight.
Well, that's a salesman with conscience, respect.
Well done, about time someone took this on. My kids have just got their first cars and I am constantly pointing this out. Watching young blokes leave worksites in their flash 4 wd with fitted tool boxes, winches and high lift kits towing a builders trailer loaded to the shitter. As I explained to my kids, that is a disaster waiting to happen. That's not taking into account the 4 90 kilo blokes piling in and then what is more scary is what are they doing on the weekend. I know it sounds ridiculous but I almost think you should have to do some sort of driver training if you are going to 4wd or tow, I had to do this with the company I worked for as part of my employment contract many years ago.
It would be good if the commercial seller of the trailer took more responsibility with the instruction to the seller on loading and towing the item he is selling. The compliance
Plates I think are inadequate because they come
As a blank and anything can be embossed on the plate by the dealer without any documentation from the manufacturer.
VERY GOOD DETAILED VIDEO
As well as overloading, poor load placement can be just as bad for death sway, but "She'll be right, we're within the weight limit".
This, and a 3t moving truck can be rented for under $100 a day. Caravans aren't freight carriers. Use the right stuff for the job.
But that $100 can be spent on a slab of beer. Priorities!!!