Source Engine Measurements
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- Опубликовано: 26 апр 2023
- CORRECTIONS WERE MADE: Check this video too! - • Source Engine Scale, C...
Here we talk about measuring with Hammer Units, and measure the size of a few objects, and even the engine itself!
Music used: Abandoned In Place (from Half-Life 2: Episode Two) 
Игры
CORRECTION FOR THIS VIDEO AND MY HAMMER UNITS SHORT:
When I was talking about the real size of a Hammer Unit, I was using *the wrong scale* scale on accident to measure characters. I incorrectly remembered a Hammer Unit being consistently 1.905cm (1/16 foot) at all times. However, it turns out Source is a bit more complicated than that, and typically Source uses multiple systems for scale in every game. I'm going to end up making a correction video on this at some point because this was, frankly, a pretty stupid error for me to make. Sorry about that.
Edit: Correction video available here - ruclips.net/video/Y1E8N8OQSfU/видео.html
A thing to note is, there's an engine branch known as the Strata Source Engine, it's the basis for Momentum Mod, Portal 2 Community Edition and Portal: Revolution. They've increased almost all engine limits including and not limited to map size and entity limit. With the map size being -65536 to 65536. It makes me wonder what it's Source cube ends up being. Maybe it's the same, maybe it's different, may be worth checking out at some point, as sadly, neither of the 3 games are public as of typing this.
Yeah, that's the part I got confused about, because I always read in the dev docs that 1 HU was meant to be exactly 1 inch, the same way that 1 Minecraft block is explicitly 1 meter on each axis (meaning Steve is quite chonky). I guess it makes sense that each game would have a different scaling standard for their art styles (does that mean Freeman is canonically taller than the Mercenaries, because he comes from a world with a larger scale factor?)...
Maybe the low height can be accounted for be assuming that is just where the camera viewpoint is located? At 3:01 we can also assume that if the camera viewpoint is directly at eye height there would still be additional height from the eyes to the top of the head, giving "Gordon" an additional 7 to 8 centimeters. So at 3:02 when you estimate the height to be 172.8cm it would check out if you add the space from the eyes to the top of the head. Ca. 8 cm. to a total of 180cm+.
By the way, an international oil drum should be about 85,1 cm in height.
For most purposes, 1 hammer unit would be roughly 40x real world scale, IF scaling to the player. Because you see, HL2 scales things around ~52x relative to real scale for narrative reasons (making the world feel bigger). Eye height is also lower than it should realistically be, this is to prevent the camera clipping.
Doesn't matter gaben short that's why
Valve actually uses two different scales when designing certain models. Maps and architecture use the standard 16 units=1 foot, while character models and certain other props use a smaller scale of 12 units=1 foot.
So Gordon Freeman, and other humanoid characters, are supposed to be roughly 6 feet tall. I believe this scaling is done so the world looks more spacious on a 2D screen.
In HL:Alyx, the global scale is now a consistent 12 units=1 foot, since being in VR already makes the world feel spacious. Try playing the HL2 VR mod, and you'll see a difference in how the world is scaled.
It varies game to game, and I accidentally made the mistake of using TF2's scale for HL2, which uh... I probably should have double-checked. Whoops. In TF2 Hammer Units are indeed 1/16th of a foot. Again, error on my part, sorry.
I was going to say that I always thought that Gordon was 6ft, as that's just a round and desirable number that's easy to work with and has that 'hero' element to it.
@@FlyboyHelosim Every human character is approximately 72 units, which would be 6 feet in entity scale.
But in map scale, it's 4.5 feet, which is much shorter than the average adult.
Pretty much this, a lot of people tend to overlook the fact that in Source they used a different scale for the player and the world. Some of you who have used addons in Garry's Mod like simfphys will take note of how you can set your speedometer relative to either player or world size, and how the former is the technically correct setting to use.
@@FlyboyHelosim It is also a more desirable number when scaling props created in real world scale to Source scale, since it rounds out to around 40 times.
Here before it blows up
Here before blowy up 😮
Here too
aye
It blew up
Same >:)
the player and NPCs being a bit short compared to everything else is on purpose. it makes all the rooms... more roomy, without having to blow the rooms themselves out of proportion
7:46 "you know what else has that much volume"
That's a dangerous question to ask on the internet
youre mom
Man. What can I say? I love this video. Idk why, I did not understand most things mentioned in this video, but I like your way of explaining things!
You got a new subscriber; keep going.
I see the correction and a few comments about it, that you answered, I also wanna add that in CS:GO ingame 1 unit also equals 1 inch, which I have used as a start to make a tool to calculate damage falloff for the weapons and the bomb, as well as determining distances and the map's size. With this the characters would be 6 ft tall, also there is a command that shows you how far your bullet traveled when shot in meters, which concurs with 1 inch.
Okay now back to watching :D
hi, i just wanted to say this video was very interesting like usually, keep up the good work!
So if we were inside Source, almost every person irl would be considered giants.
Very cool.
Is it possible to do this with other games and engines? Would make for an interesting series.
It's definitely possible, and is something I'm considering doing at some point in the future depending on how I'm feeling and what I'm able to do.
Most modern engines use SI for base units. Blender and Unity use meters, Autodesk Maya and Unreal Engine use centimeters.
I love these types of videos, you should make more
Love this video man, great to see it get some love, i really enjoy these types of videos and you are great at explaining stuff!
This is surprisingly good for a small channel!! Very well done, will subscribe :3
Thank you for using the metric system in your videos. I always scratch my head when people start talking about feet or inches or whatever😂
Use me as a ‘this video deserves 1m views’ button.
Always love source engine bullshitery, and the technical analysis aspects are always welcome in my opinion, great video man
I didn’t know I needed this knowledge but I’m here for it.
You got yourself a new sub. This vids are amazing!
Your style of videos is so good.
When other channels try to make jokes or say funny things, they always come up as forced and fake.
You, you know how to do it right.
Keep up the good work.
"What the fuck is a KILOMETER!"
Thx for the metric system measurements
Such an underrated RUclipsr, I hope you become successful!
I’d say the conversion made for gordon’s height is the “true” conversion in hl2. Everything other than props works on this conversion. You can see this whenever you walk through a doorway. A 5 foot tall doorway would be totally unreasonable, but a 6 foot doorway seems about right, unless you want to argue that every human is 4’6” in-universe.
The larger entities are the real error.
I can't blame youtube algorithms this time, I am glad I found your channel!
Liked and subbed after losing my sides to Gordon's existential crisis joke.
Great stuff 👌
very informative, nice vid!
Of note, GoldSrc Half-Life's units appear to be different to Counter-Strike's ones. I used to make maps for both and would often use prefabs that I'd made based on HL texture sizes in CS maps, but then once in-game everything seemed bigger. This means that CS players are smaller than those in HL.
I was skeptical about your claim and went to look for the actual heights in CS 1.6 and Half-Life as they are defined in code. These dimensions are defined in their respective mods. But it turns out they are exactly the same in both.
Either had a different FOV or something. Maps are 1:1 in both games. Some Half-Life textures and full-scale prefabs are also used in CS 1.6 maps (e.g. railings, dispensers, vehicles etc.).
@@dealloc Well all I know is back in the day for some of my more complex CS maps, I would first make them for, and run them through, Half-Life as they loaded quicker without all the additional CS entities and WADs, etc. Once I'd got the basic layout and architecture down, I'd then edit them as CS maps and add-in the CS-specific stuff. There were a few maps that seemed to be a bit off in scale once loaded into CS. Things like chairs that were about waist-height in HL were now almost as big as the player. Small office items were now bricks. And things like curbs which could be stepped up just by walking into them now had to be jumped. I don't remember which version of CS was current at the time, but I'm not even necessarily talking about CS 1.6... probably earlier... if anything even changed between versions I don't know. FOV was default in all cases as that wasn't really a thing you even heard about back then.
Some time in CS's development they dropped the eye level to just 64u (4'). Nobody is quite sure why, not even Gooseman. But I heard Gooseman subconsciously accepted it because he's a small man himself.
@@mfaizsyahmi Cool, thanks for the info! I'm glad I wasn't losing my mind!
I always wondered how the hell do people measure objects in video games
Loved the video, Keep it up!!!!!
this was so fun 😂 love it
correction, 389,468,314 (3.984 * 10^8) earths can fit inside it (assuming earth volume is 2.598*10^11mi^3)
oh damn you still upload, found you through source map limits video
Whenever I did personal measurements of hammer units, I assumed gordon was 6 foot for the 72 unit measurement and got that 1 hammer unit is exactly 1 inch, it depends on how you measure that you get different results I suppose.
Very good condition used panen video for sale, hasn't blown up yet
You should test out source's 2 engine limits next!
2:33
"Wash Yer Back!"
I wonder why doesn't the engine just use centimeters or inches. It'd be so much simpler for everyone.
It does use inches, he just got the wrong measurement from using tf2's slightly larger scale.
Because programmers really love working with powers of 2, so using 16u:1ft scale is really convenient. The structures in the in-game world aligns to the 16u grid as real life structures align to the foot.
Because there's a limit on how big worlds can be (32768³ units), and if you want to make a game with a much bigger scale (such as a space exploration game), your maps would be pretty limited working with 1 unit = 1".
good video!
Good shit dude.
love the vid!
Loading these maps into GMOD VR and scaling it to myself props and heights and their proportions did seem a bit off. even with fine tuning the scaling.
I've heard that FPS games either have the players be smaller or the environment larger than average, so players don't struggle with doors and other obstacles. A forgot which COD game this was, but the players are like 5'2'' in-game.
There's an 8192 brush limit that you'd probably run into trying to build a small city.
damn that's pretty big
again, why so little views? algorithm, pick this up please
anyways, great vid, very interesting!
A barrel 0.6m in diameter and 0.8m in height?
Maybe you've confused the radius with the diameter because that's a 3:4 ratio.
This aside it all seems so small... maybe because I am 1.9m but that's besides the point.
Why didnt you use the gordon hight method as main method? Still, the video is made greatly and explanations are very good.
Well? Thank you good sir but can we kindly ask how to created assets for SFM using blander?
I wish Hammer could convert between HUs and inches, because for some reason 90% of the entity keyvalues representing distance use inches instead of engine units. Also, for some reason every time I try to convert between them manually it's incredibly far off from the distance I wanted.
I would LOVE to see a HL2 map of a real life city like boston or new york. If I could I'd make a HL2 map of the town I live in. I'd like to be able to get in the buggy at my house and drive down the road and after around 6 miles reach the next town over and see stores and other things.
I thought 1 hammer unit was 1 inch, since Valve seems to use them interchangeably
Big game
So is it possible to go beyond 32k to make an open world on one map?
can you do this for doom
Here before Pyro get’s to this “niche” video
So, hypothetically, could you fit the entire Citadel in a source map?
Dr. Isaac Kleiner IRL
5:37 question.
can´t you technically increase the map size from 624.23merters by 624.23meters by stacking 3 maps on top of each other and have the player teleport from one edge to the next (whit the portal thingi (not Portal the game but source portals thingi).
thoes as a example creating a map that is 2 x 2 the size (by stacking 4 maps on top of each other), 1248,46 meters by 1248,46 minus the space for the portals/doorways to work.
You actually can, but then you should not use 3D skybox because it will break (obviously why).
@@fantastikboom1094 ... really? I remember that you could have multiple 3d sky boxes. or was that just sky boxes.
@@Zack_Wester There is only 1 possible 3D skybox on a single map. Oh and even only one 2D skybox(
Where's source 1 map limit sequel video for source 2?
Did my man just say *giga*meters?!?!
This is the kind of stuff my stupid nerd brain loves
I thought hammer units were 1 inch? Them being 1 inch means that the player is actually 6 foot
They are when measuring character models in Half-Life 2, I just accidentally used TF2's Hu conversions instead of HL2's which was a dumb mistake on my part. Whoops.
Using this for physics class.
3kliks if he did a fat line. Love your content mate.
WHAT'S UP DAUNTLESS? MY NAME IS ALFREDJR2K. AND I GONNA TELL YOU WHY I ALWAYS HAVE NORMAL HL2 AND IT'S EPISODES WITHOUT ANYTHING CUSTOMIZED.
🤯🤯🤯
Very interesting video! The only thing that's throwing me off is your usage of m instead of cm. Instead of 29.21cm you use 0.2921m, which is arguably a lot more confusing and not how you'd measure it. I understand you might've wanted to have a sizing standard, but I still think that cm would've been more applicable.
Great video though!
Metric system user here. Never heard before of a gigameter until now. Why does it exist?
Giga- is just the prefix for x1 billion, so it's 1 billion meters. To be honest there's no real reason to use it in everyday life but it exists because why not, I suppose
Imperial units are always confusing.
Note: I am a Korean.
Another based half life video
I thought hammer units were 1 inch per Hu, meaning each npc is 6ft, or something close to that.
I accidentally used the TF2 scale in this video, which I feel really stupid for doing considering I should have double-checked it. In TF2, 1 Hu = 1/16th foot, but in Half-Life 2 it depends on context, and in the case of NPCs, one unit is equal to one inch.
@@dauntlesswuff Ah, 1/16th of a foot seems pretty accurate to tf2. Tf2 scale is alot bigger than hl2s
why is my text italicized
Can someone translate 7 inches into hammer units
7 hammer units
11
no shot this has only 4k views
hi
1 hammer unit is 1 inch.
freedom units moment
When measuring character models in HL2, yes. I accidentally used TF2's Hu conversions instead of HL2's, which was *really* stupid of me to do. Whoops.
the half life 2 and CSS player and NPC models use 12hu/1ft. Otherwise it's 16hu/1ft. This is why tf2 models are so much larger than HL2 and CSS models
"🤓"
Meter, not feet.
1foot = 12 Hu, that's it anything other than that is total bullshit i make my maps keeping that in mind...
It also means
1inch = 1Hu
100th comment
based
WHAT THE FUCK IS A KILOMETERRRRR
It's weird people assume one HU is this value, HU is equal to ONE INCH, this way playermodel is exactly six feet or 180 centimeters, which uhhh... makes sense? And the Citadel with that assumption is about 3.5km in height, which makes more sense, I guess?
I made a very stupid mistake in that I used *TF2's* scale for Hu instead of one of the like 3 that HL2 uses. In TF2, 1 Hu is 1/16th of a foot, I just didn't double-check this for HL2 because I'm an idiot. I'll probably make a correction video eventually.
The measurement is actually on a by-game basis, with the standard being 12hu/1ft for player models and 16hu/1ft for the map and props. This is why in garry's mod tf2 models are bigger than hl2 models, as tf2 uses 16hu/1ft for players and maps. So on a prop size basis a hl2 model is 4'6", but in model basis it's 6'0". This leads to the conclusion that the Citadel is actually 2.5km in height using prop and map size basis, and 3.4km on a playermodel size basis.
@@diggy5884 ah
@@diggy5884 weird they decided to go that way though
@@dauntlesswuff don't. nothing is wrong with this video. Valve really use 2 different scales which made people 25% smaller. It's not the world that's too big, it's the people in it that are too small.
I find it a bit obnoxious how you spent all that time explaining how skybox objects use a different scale, and then proceed to purposefully calculate the citadel's height using the wrong scale anyway. That, and treating the discrepancy between the world scale and player/NPCs scale as a surprising finding rather than being basic information on the subject.
Help I'm American
3:00 Canonically though, Gordon is 6'2"
Why do you sound like Great Blue?
I did my own research on this long time ago. Actually I was trying to understand the size of Minecraft block for HL2/Gmod... because existing maps are bad, people are making every block 32hU^3, and the player is higher than 2 stacked on top. The funny thing is that in Quake the meter is actually 32hU, so there it would be right. Btw 1qU=3,125cm.
I looked at the player size. The player is 72hU high, and humans are 180cm high in average, then if you add 10% you'll get 200cm, so respectively do the same to 72hU. Then divide 200 by 80 and get 2,5 - that's the ratio of the hammer unit and cm. And it is almost 1 inch, which is 2,54 cm.
What about props... they actually look too big in comparison with humans. Though I don't think the geometry was designed under 1/16 scale, it perfectly works with 1/12 too. You can say props are 25% bigger, just like the human characters are 25% smaller. But you know, taller player means more detalization, because unit would be smaller in cm, that's good.
Thank you for using the metric system in your videos. I always scratch my head when people start talking about feet or inches or whatever😂