Hobby Science: Paint Pigments
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- Опубликовано: 18 май 2020
- It's time to learn about those pretty colors in our paint! Let's find where art and chemistry meet, and see if we can understand our art supplies a bit better.
Pigments are the lovely powders that give paint their color. In this episode we mix our own paint, look at chemical structures, read paint labels, and generally try to get our head around the materials that we use every day at our hobby desk.
And of course, I slap some paint on some poor drukhari kabalite warriors from warhammer 40k! :-)
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Came for the paint chemistry, stayed for the deer eating a pumpkin.
Oh yeah, that's how I get cha! :-)
@@GoobertownHobbies I have no Idea what you said during the time the deer were on. They looked so happy eating that pumpkin lol.
I was very confused what this was about, and now I’ve learned. Somehow deer eating a pumpkin is far more entertaining than it should be on its own… The chem lesson is always a bonus
The weirdest part is how I switched to this video after watching several shorts of people feeding deer carrots and bananas.
That's 100% how I'm planning to get my wife to watch this!
Brent; "... painting a happy little Drukhari ..."
Me; "HE SAID THE LINE!"
I thought the same. :-)
;-)
Are there even happy little Drukhari?
@@geronimo8159 yes, if they have a friend. Because everyone deserves a friend!
science brent, science brent, I love science brent
Brent: analyses paints and pigments on a deep level to better understand them using chemistry and science
Me: "so that's a darker green paint..."
This is like if Bob Ross had a PhD in chemistry. Thanks for sharing!
Bob ross did have a PhD in chemistry
@@tpdbuilder what? Bob Ross was a high school dropout. He never got a degree.
@@omfgblondie yes, that is part of the story. He did carpenttry, joined the Air Force and bartended and painted part-time. Eventually he was making more money selling his art than from being in the military, so he retired form the Air Force after 20 years.
I just observed an Elven Mage giving an introductory lecture on his vast knowledge on alchemy, and even though his sonorous voice is full of wisdom, my Barbarian brain still pictures him shredding a lute as part of a Norscan-metal bard troupe.
There's a miniature of what I'm sure is this Brent, and it has decidedly barbarian vibes: www.ebay.com/itm/Trouble-In-The-Tavern/124058455513?hash=item1ce275cdd9:m:m6bdE-V66HBNA4F1iPJw_oA&var=424889615525
@@bramverbeek7109 yes that is the Artisan Guild sculpt they did of Brent
If you're interested in the spectrum reflections of different paints, you can make an easy setup with projecting white light through a spectrum and seeing where along the rainbow a certain paint reflects. What's hard to do, is making the whole dark enough so you only see the right reflection, but with some creativity, it's possible to pull this off.
Your content is awesome, and the presentation is as good, keep at it!
I had a really stressful day at work, got home had dinner, poured a large rum, hmm still stressed, popped RUclips on watched this, now completely chilled out and looking at my paints in a whole other way. Thankyou Brent.
1. Goobertown Paints - I'd buy them.
Especially if the range had a yellow that that didn't make me cry when I realise I have to do 20 coats to get a smooth finish.
That and some strong metallics.
2. Brent is the Walter White of mini painting.
PINK IS THE KEY
Check out the Vallejo game air metallics. I paint them on and airbrush them - great coverage, a lot less clumping.
@@kriegsblade7094 Pink is the key? Please, divulge these secrets!
@@willjones1696 A pink undercoat gives the yellow a warm "orange" shading. Yellow over a black undercoat is difficult to give adequate coverage, and gives a greenish tinge at times. There's a Goobertown vid that uses the pink undercoat and explains it.
@@BlackCoyote66 Very interesting. I will have to give that a try once I find that video. I plan to experiment with underpainting in greyscale tomorrow and will have to try this pink undercoat for any yellow I paint. Thank you : ]
Science!
There are museums that store some of the pure sources of pigment (shells, plants, metals, etc), which make for fascinating viewing.
Indeed! It's fascinating stuff, We'll need to go deeper! :-)
Ancient Egyptians used Bone for white pigment. Imagine a “skulls for the skull throne” made out of actual skulls.
There was a color called, mummy brown, that was made from actual mummies lol.
Great to see you back discussing the chemistry side of things. It's something you do that I've not seen from anyone else.
Ah, I love science flow into our hobby.
Best Video chart! TY!
Science Brent is the Best Brent!
And Kimera Kolors are absolutely amazing, but they cannot at all used as you are used to by other mini painting brands. It needs a LOT of practice to get nice results with them. However, if you got that practice, there is nothing better (at least for display painting). They are not really suited for casual painting or army painting, cause they have no coverage at all because of the missing titanium white in the hues.
@@KevinvL Interesting! good to know :-)
Those are all on my list of things I'd like to learn someday. Once I understand that stuff I'll definitely make a vid! :-)
This was so interesting! Seriously considering adding this video to my chemistry curriculum next year, and now I'm super stoked for your future physics video on reflection and absorption as it's one of my favorite topics to teach. Hooray science!
Hooray!- Glad you liked it! I'll have to keep reading up on this stuff and make some more vids ;-)
@@GoobertownHobbies Hey, I know this is about 2 years after the video, but I do have a reference that you might like:
"The Artist's Handbook of Materials and Techniques" by Ralph Mayer
It has all sorts of stuff including pigment information including reflectance spectra, chemical formula, common names, color index names, and medium compatibility.
As an Oil Engineer, i countinuously get things like, pressure, connections, capilarity, fluids mechanics that apply to the painting and hobbing world that surprize me, everything is interconnected and its wonderful, this was such a great video Goober, thanks, i felt i havent learn this much in such a long time! Keep up the awesome work!
As much as i enjoy your videos about miniature painting, but those videos about crafts products chemistry are precious. If ever you fancy doing more, you have an audience. Thanks for the joy and knowledge!
I was actually thinking yesterday "I wonder what Brent is up to, I haven't seen an upload for a while", interesting video dude, thanks!
Hey hey!!!! :-)
Same here! I had even gone searching for his channel to see what new video I had missed!
@@GoobertownHobbies Hey from Luci. Thanks for the video!!! You ask for more info on pigment and spectral data on pigments. I work with the most famous and world renown pigment expert and pigment chemist Luke. (from Lucid Colour and Mafia Pigments) You should contact him as he would be happy to work on giving you the technical info (near impossible to get info) from the secret pigment world. Luci
Hey from Luci. Thanks for the video!!! You ask for more info on pigment and spectral data on pigments. I work with the most famous and world renown pigment expert and pigment chemist Luke. (from Lucid Colour and Mafia Pigments) You should contact him as he would be happy to work on giving you the technical info (near impossible to get info) from the secret pigment world. Luci
@@GoobertownHobbies 6666 to on offer too too on out oit is a food that too iou you
I'm only 5 minutes in and I *know* this is going to be one of my go-to videos. Your information is transparent, easy to understand It's completely facilitating!
Hunting down the pure pigments will help easily spot the unidentified ones like GW.
We just recently had discovered a new blue pigment for the first time in 200 years! To say this science is stable is an understatement.
Thanks for pointing this out a while back: it has been rattling around in my head for a while as a means of organization.
Chroma, hue and value will enable there to be quite literally millions of distinct paints, never mind medium or carrier ratios or dispersants.
The main takeaway is the less pigments, the less likely to go grey or brown when mixing.
Just to come back to the fineness of grind. I have worked for 5 years as Material engineer dealing with ceramic tape casting, so a process similar to paint manufacturing: solvents, binder, dispersant and a powder. Fineness of grind has a massive influence on viscosity. So grinding a bit more will make your paint more fluid.
And second, I'm a subscriber of Anne Foerster, the ex-Reaper paints chemist. In one of her first video she mentions also that claiming to have extra fine pigment was a commercial ploy as each pigment has its optimal fineness of grind and if you go too fine the pigment start to become transparent.
So, please continue these more scientific videos, I love them.
Amazing video! Our hobby is starving for more information like this. I'm definitely with you in that science is beautiful and can only enhance the art. And while I'm all for experimentation in painting, it's also nice to avoid mistakes with some good information before starting! Keep making these videos!
Right on! Finding stuff that's the right mixture of science+ art is tricky, but as I keep learning things I'll keep sharing them, I'm glad you like this stuff too! :-)
Coming from the art side of pigment appreciation, I can only second the importance of understanding the qualities of different pigments, rather than thinking of paint as just paint. Mini painting have kinda been spoiled by being an art form that came about after the synthetic colour revolution of the early 1900's. That's not to say that natural pigments are inherently superior to synthetic (quite the opposite is true in many cases) but rather that the limitation that naturally comes with having a limited range of specific hues is a great motivator for actually learning colour theory rather than getting super caught up with what specific paints are used for a given effect. That becomes a roadblock to creative improvement in my opinion - ie. thinking "what colour from the Citadel(TM) product line did they use for that effect?" rather than "what approach to color did they use to create that effect?" obscures what it is that is really the reason the model look good.
Mixing all the colours from the base colours is difficult, as you say, but not impossible and practising it is, IMO, the best way to get a practical grasp of colour theory. I follow the same principle with mini paints as with paint-on-canvas paints: Get a good quality red, blue, yellow, white and black paint and mix your way from there, and only buy more paints from there when the need for it arises naturally - ie. if for my army I need a lot of, say, indian yellow and turquoise, I'll specifically get those colours, but primarily as a convenience, to save me time.
This became kinda tangential and I don't want to bash anyone's way of painting, I just know that for myself personally, my painting level took a quantum leap when I started to think about paint as a limited palette of basic "carmine reds" and "raw siennas" and so on (sort of "god given" pigments in that they are of a naturally limited number) that I have to wrestle into the hue I want, rather than as a practically infinite range of specific hues that I have free choice between.
One of my friends took a class where one of the big projects was just being able to mix the color wheel from 3 primaries, and he said it was super challenging but also really rewarding when he got it figured out. This is such a deep deeeeeep subject to jump into, but it's super fun and useful! :-)
@@GoobertownHobbies as I write in comment, I was searching for your "futur episode" that you didnt seem to done yet, the subjects really interest me because as many people I coulnd make a nice purple by mixing red and blue and we have different sets of primarys as I think you said in a video, the red blue yellow and magenta cyan yellow principaly, in paint, now can I mix magenta with a bit of yellow to have a red then mix on another side cyan with a little bit of magenta to have a blue then use theses (blue and red) then mix them to have a nice purple ? So have basically magenta and cyan and yellow to have a purple.. while yellow is complementary of purple so should avoid making a red with magenta and yellow and instead use directly magenta instead of making a red.. I feel none of these primary sets are perfect. A perfect red(not magenta) and a perfect blue (not cyan) gives a very dark purple that isnt even teally purple, its very redish brown or blue grey.
I doesnt really trust in primary anymore or at least do not think anymore that, as the person in the comment said, that you can just have the blue red yellow white and black to do every color.. I would personnaly have both blue and red so a nice pure.blue, kind of cobalt imo PLUS cyan, same for the red, the purest red I can find PLUS magenta. To these double blues and red I would also take two yellow the purest and a cool yellow for the greens then even test.my "purest yellow" with red to see if I have a nice orange, if not I ll take a 3rd yellow that would be an orangish yellow. To this I would buy a purple even having double blues and double reds and test the cool yellow with both of the blues to see if at least ones gives me a perfect green which I doubt because the purest blue as he say for me seems to tend to red and the cyan to have white, to be whitish so even green I would buy ..
So I think orange would be the unique secondary I would not buy.. or.. maybe even a "purest" orange..
Plus black and white
From there the first thing I would do is preparing unsatured colors, a lot writing the precise mix on the bootles, I.would start with olive/camo colors that I dont call green because.. mix a yellow and black and.. you'll understand..
So I would start with basics ones with each of them using one of the yellows plus black then I would, do more unsaturated ones using different mix of a yellow plus cyan or the other blue and black.
Then I ll do some browns, greys and other colors.
I know I'm a few years late to the party, but I also come from sort of artistic background (hobby art, I'm not pro or anything), specifically watercolours and coloured pencils. While not having pigment information with coloured pencils is not a big deal, since you tend to have more colours available for relatively speaking cheaper price, with watercolours it quickly became a problem for me. I love to use limited palette and I was lucky enough that I met artists who explained the difference between "light" primaries (the ones used in light mixing, which could be easily RYB) and "pigment" primaries (similar to in cartridges, CMYK). While CMYK isn't perfect, it's the best 3 (well, 4 or 5 if you count black and possibly white) primary colour limited palette you can find.
But I also find that if you start with limited palette and do the mixing yourself, you can learn a lot and creating "muddy" colours is also a skill that's used. Now for watercolour I adopted "split primary" approach, I do have cooler and warmer versions of each colour plus split neutrals. This has given me the most freedom in mixing whatever the heck I want in paints. However, there's one more key thing. As mentioned in the video, titanium white and a lot of black pigments tend to lean opaque. There are other opaque pigments, but these two are the major ones. Transparent colours I find to be the best for mixing new colours. And not only on the palette, you can use with glazes or layering visual mixing with them. But when you go for opaque colours, it starts to get trickier.
I started acrylics journey (just miniatures, I don't use acrylics on anything else) with opaque colours. With no pigment information. And I got frustrated super fast with mixing the colours I want. And I don't think it was specifically a problem of not knowing the exact pigment code, I could do without that. But as mentioned in the video, problem is with the colours being mixed from quite a few things, some of them stronger than others, some of them with weird undertones if you mix white in them. It's a pure frustration. If they used a single pigment or 2 similar pigments like you tend to have with most artist colour paints, I could do without the pigment information. Just knowing it's a single/two pigment formula (preferably also knowing if it contains white or black pigment), I could be happy. This made me actually go for artist acrylics instead of hobby paints since I love mixing. And as a bonus, you can find transparent (to an extend, it's acrylics after all) colours in their ranges. And as I mentioned, those work for me much better for colour mixing.
Of course most people don't stop with the "basics" and start to aquire "convenience" colours so they don't have to mix every single thing if they use it a lot. But for me the imporant things missing on hobby paints is their opaque/transparency rating and at least something about pigment (like a mix of 2 blue pigments, a mix of green and white, whatever, or just you know, use the pigment codes artist paints use). Both play a huge role in how I mix colours and the success before even trying to mix the colours.
The most problematic thing about RYB btw is that you can't mix all the colours in their most saturated form. While you can easily desaturate any colour you want, you never can make it more saturated than the mix gives you. And the reason opaque colours have more of a problem with this mixing is that you need to mix white into some of the paints to bring out their colour, because the mix is too dark to see anything (it basically looks black). This is most visible with mixing purple or green colours, since blue is the colour with lowest value in saturated form. Some of the vibrancy (or saturation) of the colour gets lost when adding white. Hence why I lean toward transparent colours, but as I said, even those in limited palette aren't perfect. But they're as close as you can get.
And I wanted to say, lovely to read both of your coments and seeing this video, I really appreciate it.
The library of 'good colors' is huge too. All you can do is ask in the community that revolves around the paint subject and hope that someone knows the exact color you mean. On top of that there's the color difference on monitors and before you think about brightness and color settings, the fact that if you're using an old monitor will change things too.
If you can invent or find a new yellow pigment that covers well, you'll be *RICH*.
Gotta get that yellow! :-)
painting those dhrukari with home-made paints reminds me of the time squidmar made an "ikea marine"
right? :-)
Yessss, this is my jaaammm!!
I love pigments and would absolutely love a deep chemistry nerdy dive!!
I have a few friends who mull and make their own watercolours from either self-sourced or bought pigments, and tbh I am a little addicted.
I loved this video so much.
I also love just how certain pigments can produce such a wide variety of colours, like PR101, PBr7 and PV19.
I think one of my biggest peeves with mini paints is just how many of them clearly contain white, most probably PW6. I know this is a highly personal peeve from someone who came in from other kinds of traditional art, but argh.
I have been waiting to get the Kimera Kolors for about six months now. Not having access to good mixing colours and pigment and lightfastness info is part of why it took me so long to get into mini painting, so when I saw Marco Frisoni mention KK, I was sold!
They have been sold out for most of that time, even before the lockdown, though. I know they I working on making more, and my wallet is ready!
Thank you, Brent!
Moar pigment and dye nerdery! MOAR!!!
MOAR!!! :-)
Well one of us has a PhD in chemistry! Good video, Dr, Goober! It gives me a new appreciation for my Vallejo and Army Painter sets and the work that goes into them. Cheers.
Can't wait to see your debunk video of the unscientific red/blue/yellow color wheel we are taught in elementary school.
In photography we use the *real* RGB/CMY color wheel, and have the phrase: "Really Young Girls Can Be Merry" to remember Red, Yellow, Green, Cyan, Blue, and Magenta in order around the wheel.
I still remember my mind-blow when I learned that "Brown" is just dark orange, or that mixing cyan and magenta make an extremely vibrant blue: a "primary color"
Hehehe, I'm still wrapping my head around why violet and red are next to each other on the color wheel but opposite ends of the rainbow ;-) When that sinks in, it's gonna be a fun video!
@@GoobertownHobbies really interesting that talks about the phenomenon you are talking about was posted here at Technology Connections: ruclips.net/video/uYbdx4I7STg/видео.html
In a nutshell, violet and pink are only percievable in our minds because nerves in our eyes are being stimulated by opposite ends of the color spectrum at the same time. Our experience of magenta/violet/purple is the brain's reaction to this phenomenon. Our brain creates this color as a subconcious experience to "fill in the gap" in the color "wheel" that our brain creates. Simply put, all the other colors can gradate into eachother, so why not blue and red? Lol
that thumbnail will be in my nightmares for weeks to come
I love the b roll of you looking at the paint pots.
I'm curious to see how the minis you coated at the end turned out once they dried, what a tease.
Whoops! I forgot to include that shot! Nothing funky happened when they dried from what you saw, lots of white poking through after one coat, but all-in-all not terrible. :-)
I was also curious about that. Maybe put up some pictures somewhere Brent?
Probably look like a 80s copy of White Dwarf
@@GoobertownHobbies maybe he can drop a shot on the discord =)
I discovered your channel two months ago. Since then, I watched all old videos, because they are not only well done, but also very soothing. You have become my Bob Ross of Miniature Gaming. 😂
I love watching your videos and listen to your soft and calm voice. Havent painted a single mini in my whole life!
Hehehe, I'll talk you into it one of these days! :-)
Saving this to watch for later but dropping the like now as Goobertown videos are always number one in my
book
Thanks Brent, this is honestly something I have never actually looked into for some reason, time to buy a coffee grinder XD. This one will be bookmarked ^_^
The science behind miniature painting. I love it.
Hey Brent, I want to thank you so much, I've only watched a couple of your videos for the past few days and you've totally got me hooked into mini painting! When I was 5, my favourite thing in the world was this tiny gamesworkshop store but as fast as I discovered it, it sadly shut down. After that the only things to remind me were a second hand collection of a Sisters of Battle minis and a single white dwarf magazine. Now after a long wait, an intro to D&D last year, and a spark of this old flame, I think It's time to go out, grab some minis, and get to some painting!
(Nothing but admiration, inspiration and respect towards you!)
Hey hey, I'm glad that you're back into it!! You'll have to paint those sisters one of these days :-)
Hahaha, happy little Drukhari warrior... you truly are becoming the Bob Ross of minis!
13:34 magnetized paint handle !!! wow !! clever !!
He has a full video on those, among his first ones
Thank you for this. There are too many myths circulating in the hobby that basically boil down to people not really having a grasp on what paint even is, and this video has a chance of helping with that
Right on! I'm still trying to get a handle on all this myself, one step at a time! :-)
@@GoobertownHobbies By the way, and I dunno if this is obvious or news to you or not since I'm a physics student talking to a chemist here but I seem to recall that you can get the color spectra for various compounds from the band structures, and those do get calculated for a lot of different compounds so that's something to look at?
Juste coming back to this one once in a while when the day is hard and you want to (re)learn how it all works.
Love when you teach us, waiting for a next lesson!
This must have been a lot of work, really interesting and delivered in an easy to understand way. Cant wait for the next one. Thanks Brent.
Tunes in for cool paintings and knowledge. Now headed to the store to buy pigments and medium to play with....
As someone who has a BSc & worked as an industrial chemist for years before switching to study fine art, these videos are good on so many levels. Thank you!
Those chemical diagrams have really put me off putting my brush in my mouth!
Brilliant video. Many years ago BBC (I think) had a documentary on paints. From what I recall, there are actually very few paint production factories. And paint brand companies will copyright colors from these factories, resulting in creating a competition on making different chemical builds, and with a different build it's then a new "paint" and can be use and again copyrighted. Also, the paint production factories use a massive color chart to select colors, and if the paint color was just a small % different on the chart it's technically a different color and free to use/copyright again.
Not sure how accurate that is for the paint business today, the documentary was very old, and unfortunately I have yet to find it again, but I found it very interesting.
Oh yeah, those gits are definitely guarding their little paint recipes :-) All this is fascinating, there's soooo much to learn on this topic!
@@GoobertownHobbies Absolutely. It's kinda strange that' the whole business is such a mystery too. I've tried to find sources of the whole process, with no avail. Please take what I said above with a pinch of salt. Like I said, it's was an old documentary (well over 10-15 years ago) and I am just going off memory...which is not to be trusted. lol
Listening to you speak when I have a horrible migraine is so soothing. No crazy music, no bright lights and no loud sounds. Just your great voice distracting me from a terrible night. Thank you!
a mad scientist Brent episode. My favorite type of episode
hehehe me too!
Duncan Rhodes: 2 thin coats.
Goober: hold my beer!
I've been using more and more high quality artist acrylic paints and honestly, I'm getting to where I will never go back to the junk they make specifically for gaming. They're just so good. My favorites/recommendations:
*Golden High Flow and Fluid Colors - The high flow are AMAZING through the airbrush and the fluid colors are really good for brush painting
*Liquitex Soft Body Acrylics and Acrylic Gauche - both are just great, Marco Frisoni did a dwarf on his channel with the gauche if you want to see it in action
*You already touched on the greatness of artist inks
Sure, some of the paints need a bit of thinning with mediums, but geez, you cannot beat the quality (and typically price!), IMO.
Thanks for the recommendations! Yeah I definitely want to experiment with more of these! :-)
Excellent video Brent! I love Science with Goobertown Hobbies. The Happy little drakari line made my day. Please keep up the great work good sir!
This dude is very smart, very skilled, and very calming. Great combination.
I was wondering when someone would get around to making a video like this for miniature painting. From what I understand, the basic problem with acrylics is the molecular weight of the medium isn't very high when compared to the oil mediums, like linseed and safflower. The higher the molecular weight, the greater the pigment load the medium can take. You also mentioned solubility, which is also a factor in how much pigment can be crammed into paint.
Furthermore, many of the "good" pigments, the ones with good solubility and opacity, are either toxic (cadmium reds, oranges, and yellows, red lead, red mercury, chrome green, lead white), expensive (vanadium purple), or earth tones (umbers, ochers, and iron black). The safer and cheaper alternatives tend to be lakes, precipitations of dyes using metal salts, which are by definition transparent. The lower pigment loading combined with a quarter to a third of the color wheel being dominated by transparent lakes means that craft and hobby acrylics on the whole struggle with coverage, particularly with highly saturated colors.
Manufacturers of craft and hobby paints try to compensate by introducing extra titanium white, which is heavy and sometimes chalky, or boosting saturation of a more opaque pigment with lakes. This also accounts for the non-linear way acrylics mix, since some are cocktails of lakes and an opacifier while others are simpler blends of truly opaque pigments.
Oil is more acidic than acrylic too so that means some pigments that are perfectly safe to use aren’t available in the latter medium. Prussian Blue, for example is very rarely seen.
This subject is SO DEEP, I'm really enjoying learning about it. :-) That bit about manufacturers adding titanium white to paints to increase coverage- whoa! that makes sense, I hadn't noticed that!
@@GoobertownHobbies Adding zinc white (which is admittedly more transparent than titanium white) to watercolours is the traditional way of making your own gouache, but that's changed a lot in the last century.
@@GoobertownHobbies Really good paints (very rare to find) will not use titanium to increase "coverage" but use similar shade in combination to original pigment with a low toxicity MMO (mixed metal oxides). Mom are reasonably priced and easy to modify to make more opaque for "coverage". Titanium dioxide is $1 per/Lb ($2per/Kg) = cheap paints... Hidden secrets of the manufacture ;-)
This is really interesting, as a whole pigment history is something I'm super interested in, great video! I'll admit, maybe in many ways game paints might be emulating GW in their 'you must use these multiple colours to achieve the result rather then mixing your own which is incredibly cheaper' thing. Once you know cool v warm colours, you can mix colours knowing exactly what will result
As someone who comes from an art background, I still found all of this interesting and at no point did it seem redundant or like you were missing the point but instead just that you were approaching it from a different angle. This is a perfect example of how and why diversity works because watching you mix the pigments with various solvents was really an eye opener; seeing which ones remained suspended longer was fascinating.
I'm glad you touched on color mixing because it really is a far more complex process than what most of us were taught. Though I'm not entirely sure I buy Vallejo's explanation completely, you can see some of this complexity when you pick up a bottle of Model Color that's sat for a while and really started to separate; often times you can see most, if not all, of the various colors that went into mixing one bottle (you'd be surprised how many non-green colors have green in them). It definitely throws you through a loop when you mix two colors, expecting them to produce a specific color, and instead you wind up with something completely different because you weren't aware of what pigments were used.
The Bob Ross of minis - LOVE IT.
Here I was, having a bad day start, thanks a lot Goobertown Hobbies, 23 minutes of relaxing therapy! Can't wait to finish work and try to paint some minis, also just ordered Zombicide Season 1 (was on sale :D), tons of really forgiving paint zombies minis!
Hi,where did you get Zombicide on sale? Please share the link😁
@@drummerdanny1269 Oh, I live in Brazil, the Zombicides usually goes for around R$350-500 ($60-100), found the season 1 on Amazon.com.br for R$199 ($35), couldn't resist. Also was like 3am and it only lasted for a couple minutes until was out of stock.
@@Wa11breaker I see. It's awesome that you got lucky. The best time to get games is when they go on sale. Thanks for the reply.
Hey Brent! This is by far the earliest you’ve posted!
one thing that i've found really helps when youre mixing your own colors is the understanding that pigments are not perfect. there is no pigment that reflects 100% blue light and nothing else. every blue you find will be just barely nudged slightly to either red or yellow. so naturally you want to leverage this by picking your colors wisely. if you want to make a vivid green you need to pick a yellow and a blue that are already tipped in that direction. if you use either a warmer yellow or a warmer blue then the green will be muddy.
As a spectroscopy chemist, I found this video pleasing.
20:20
I'm not sure if that's actually true
I remember somewhere in a bit of information from Winsor & Newton, that this is an issue that they have with certain pigments when it comes to making sure the colour is correct, that different grinds can effect the colour pretty substantially
I don't think my analogy is quite right, but possibly there's a similar effect to how quantum dots, and the effect of size determining excitation energies, to that of the crystals of some of the ground pigments, and them possibly having size dependent optical properties?
It's only something I remember hearing a while back with regards to colour and grind, could have been marketing nonsense, but I'm leaning more on the idea that at least certain pigments have grind-dependent colours (if even subtley) than not!
Anyway, great video, enjoyed seeing some of the compounds making up the pigments we use every day!
Was quite shocked at the effect of those halogens on the pthalo blue/green and what a difference it made! :)
Interesting! Yeah I'm thinking of all this as a gas-phase spectroscopist, but you're right, at some point the physicists have a say in how light interacts with small particles ;-) Thanks for the lead, I'll spend more time looking into what Winsor & Newton publish and keep trying to piece together the truth of all this! For the Phthalo compounds there are a few sub-variants based on how the ligand is coordinated with the copper... I've gotta brush up on my inoragnic chemistry too!
@@GoobertownHobbies Physics background, guilty as charged ;)
By all means, please keep us all up to date with more videos on the topic! The blend of your Chemistry background and your hobby really did make for a special video :)
I work as an engineer in the R+D of a paint manufacturer. The size of your particles matter very much. The smaller the particle size, the clearer your Hue. If your particles are to big they settle Mode easily at the bottom and your hue will mit be as bright and clear.
That are only some examples why this matters, there are more which are very in depth and would need more explaining.
PS: some Pigments need more grinding and extensive force (ie. CIPB15) while others dont.
Tim-Yannick Schulze am I right in thinking one of the key differences between modern gouache and watercolour is the pigment grind? A lot of ranges don’t use zinc white for opacity anymore.
I might try to find some of these! They look interesting and fun! 🖌
Enjoy! :-)
All colors in a hobby paint range selling for the same price is the biggest sign that quality within that range will be highly variable. Different pigments have different costs to manufacture, which is why artist paints have variable pricing structures: they aim at homogeneity in characteristics.
That's a really interesting way of looking at it, either there's a MASSIVE markup or they're cutting some corners somewhere.
One of my engineer friends talked to me about properties of clay. Telling me the small platelets will accept an electrostatic charge which lets them slip over each other like they are small magnets. He was mostly concerned with clay hillsides slipping out from under roads after receiving thumping from cars rolling over roads on the top of clay banks cause an electrostatic charge to build up in the clay. A demonstration of this is to make a bit of throwing clay into a tower and tap the base till it suddenly slumps. I have watched this effect in a stiff stoneware clay which required a lot of stirring before it would suddenly change viscosity and could be poured into a mold. Pigments in my paints seem to react to stirring in the same way. I now stir my paint by hand to make it flow as though I had added thinner.
Pfft, you Scientists have all the best toys! :P Awesome video, found it very informative, never really looked at paint to this level before. Thanks for sharing this info with us!
This is cool I was actually about to get into painting and getting into Warhammer 40k epic time
I like this. This encourages a level of understanding that makes subtle differences in how to achieve a particularly desired result/effect. It is knowing which tool to reach for to perform a certain task. Once you understand the tool, how it is made, what is its purpose, and the raw material you are transforming, you truly reach a deeper level of craftsmanship.
10/10 mate. Both Schmincke and Golden acrylic paint companies are at the cutting edge of paint tech for artists and their websites are a chemists heaven. Used both of them for 20+ years. Here in New Zealand the fugitive light sensitive reds are a real problem due to our personally aggressive sunlight. great to hear all the technical terms. thanks heaps. Chur.
"Actually yes" got to me don't know why but it did
A hair-god chemist? Huh. I'd make a chemistry joke, but I fear the reaction would be detrimental. But color me a stroke more educated than before!
I love having a deeper understanding of our hobby. Watching how much pigment you dumped in and seeing the result really made me appreciate how much work goes into to getting the proper proportions together to make our hobby paints.
Mulling pigments is for dispersion in the suspension. It's more abundant in watercolors. Handprint is a cool source to go to
I think most of the game color lines hide their pigment lists because they're deliberately trying to match Citadel's tones, and they don't want to expose themselves as copying the pigment recipe.
Yup yup, there's a bunch of corporate/ IP shenanigans going on there. Still annoying for us as consumers tho! :-)
Can you even trademark a formula? I would think that you could not patent it either.
I really want to get my hands on some of those old dark eldar models
Oh they're super handy to have around! :-)
Good job on this video man. Hope you are happy, safe and healthy .
I love this man more with every video. Loved the hobby and goes out of his way to answer questions of curiosity about it
love u 2!
Your videos are the best. I love how the chemistry view makes everything click into place when using these glues, pigments and what not. I noticed how I actually understand what's going on now and how that makes me calmer and more confident when using the materials. Thanks!
Do you know the youtuber NileRed? He's a chemistry youtuber and he's done some work on pigments. I would be interested in seeing a collaboration. Cheers!
Yea he does some cool stuff! :-)
Warning: chemist at work.
I love getting the chemistry side of painting and I found watching you mix the paints with those slick shots. Great job! My eyes also didn't glaze over when you went into some of the detail on the compounds, so great job on keeping that stuff accessible.
It would be cool if Vallejo and other conpanies listed their pigments, but I think that it's fair for companies to want to keep their trade secrets. Plus nobody would want to go first! As for the languages, removing a language potentially puts your product in violation of local trade laws, plus potentially cutting off a whole market to seel product in. Not surprised companies would want to avoid that! Great job, Brent, I really learned a ton from this amazing video!
Every time i watch deer eating pumpkins it reminds me of a pack of wolves feeding.
i'm now starting to understand why games workshop said they had to paint an entire chapter worth of space marine test models while developing contrast paints. which leaves me wondering, what is the difference between acrylic paint and acrylic ink?
Paint to Ink is mostly the ratio of water to binder polymer to pigment. :-)
@@GoobertownHobbies I was under the impression (probably from marketing) that inks tended to have more pigment in them as well.
@@redleg1376 I'm not sure what the exact ration are of solvent to pigment, but inks certainly have less binder than paints. Same basic ingredients, just different ratios. :-)
Redleg 137 you can tell inks have a pretty high pigment load because you can dilute them fairly far without losing intensity. Though it helps that most ink ranges use pigments like the phthalos that have very high staining. Ultramarine blue, by comparison, is very rarely seen in most acrylic ink lines (and you almost never see a hobby paint for Ultramarines that uses ultramarine! They tend to be PB15.1 or PB15.6, red-shade phthalo blue)
@@nicholascaldwell6079 Yeah, I am pretty new to the miniature painting hobby and was pretty bummed to find out that ultramarine is not ultramarine... With the limited painting I did before I was used to just get seven hobby-art colors (lemon yellow, carmine red, magenta, cyan, ultramarine, black, white) and mix everything else. Doesn't work so well with hobby paints.
I never heard about pigments before I discovered this channel.
When you go to your local hobby store, it's like a wizard has mixed the contents of the paint bottles. Anyone got the pigment powder code for GW's Macragge Blue ? I've looked around and have not figured it out yet.
All I can find is "The hexadecimal color code #0d407f is a medium dark shade of cyan-blue. In the RGB color model #0d407f is comprised of 5.1% red, 25.1% green and 49.8% blue. In the HSL color space #0d407f has a hue of 213° (degrees), 81% saturation and 27% lightness. This color has an approximate wavelength of 473.62 nm."
Ths video is the first of its kind and is awesome.
The cowards hide their pigments! No good yellow bellied pigment hogs... :-)
If Macragge is what they're calling Ultramarine Blue now, I'm guessing it's probably just ultramarine blue, which is a standard artist colour.
@@gavinmillar what I would like is a website which gives you RGB ratings or R,G or B powder pigments, like a value of 0-255, then you could mix the powders with matt medium and get the Citadel color just right
Speaking as a theoretical chemist who's only dipped their toes into painting: Oh yes please make more nerdy paint videos, I love them :D
Hi I’m Brent and this week on Goobertown Labs
I'm just waiting for the weigh boats, magnetic stir bars, and flasks to get brought out. I'm here for science in hobbies.
When smart people do art, it's very beneficial to all! This was fascinating. I'm digging into how to make my own paints and this has given me such a better understanding. Thanks!
Very concise and informative! Thank you Dr. Brent :)
For pigment proprieties, I know that the channel of Dr oto kano explains a lot and the difference of pigments in different watercolor brands with really similar names. And which ones make the most vibrant secondaries. While its watercolor, since the pigments are listed its easy to see which pigment does what as a result. Great subject. Artist grade paints are often deemed too expensive while people gush over some miniature paint lines that are not that much cheaper by the liter. Pigments are whats important and you have a right to know whats used in them paint. It affects your health and your painting. Single pigments are often more desireable for their previsibility but multi pigmented ones are great as convenient colors. Again, terrific idea to go more in depht on this. The community will benefit greatly from this. An informed buyer makes better choices for their needs :D (and not every mini painter comes from a traditional art background)
Hey thanks for the recommendation! This is such a big+ fun topic, I'm excited to learn more :-)
I came here from your "so you wanna paint minis do ya" video, which was excellent. I am now well versed in paint pigments and have learned great techniques and practices in just over an hour.
You sir, produce amazing videos. Thanks!
Thank you for your videos. It may seem strange, but I am beginning to rely on your videos. Not only does it scratch my hobby itch, but it feels like chatting with a friend.
i live in the intersection of chemistry and art, what a lovely video!!
Love the pigment analysis. When not enjoying my other hobbies watercolour painting is in my hobby box.
Having a chemist explain pigments is a welcome addition since all I knew was the more pigment the better and the better the cost was higher.
Finally some good science content !
YAY - science!
This video explains perfectly why you should add some white to your yellow on the first few coats to get opacity. Or undercoat with various shades to get undertones for yellow
Brent is strikingly intelligent. What a man.
Great video, there are a few things I feel I can contribute. I work for a company which produces ink for industrial printing processes, which is essentially identical to water-based acrylic paint. It should be known that to be useful in commercial-grade ink or paint, the particle size of these pigments must be reduced. This is done usually in a bead mill, where a suspension of the pigment (such as you made) is ground until a certain fine particle size is reached. The result is much greater colour development at the same pigment loading levels. There are special acrylic binders for this job which are called pigment dispersing resins. These products have very good wetting and adhesion but poor resistance properties.
The resulting pigment dispersion - which normally contains around 30% pigment - can be mixed with other pigment dispersions to create any colour you wish. Colours are matched in this way.
In this mixture, the % of total pigment dispersion probably won't exceed around 30-40% - so only ~10% total pigment. The rest of the paint will be made up of some soft acrylic polymer which has a great combination of low glass transition temperature (the film it forms is soft and flexible), resolubility (it won't dry so fast that it can't be cleaned and ruin your brushes), and resistance properties in the dried film. A matting agent like fumed silica will be used to give the matt finish. A few other additives will be present such as a defoamer (
Found this by accident (You Tube's channel recommendations) but I found it absolutely fascinating. I will be 69 next week and have built models since I was about 10, so I have a lot of experiences, but I haven't run into a good source like this that explains WHY paints and other colorants work like they do. I'm certainly no chemist, but your breakdown of pigment structures was an eye opener. Over the years I have used different media for different projects or to get certain effects, but it was always based on someone else's research or practice. Your information is helping me to see more of why my coatings perform. I still have a lot to learn so I'll be back for more.
This is outstanding, Brent!
;-) shouldn't you be painting orks???
More of these! I love looking at art through a scientific lens! I would love to see the videos you mentioned you were so excited to make “in the future”. The future is now Brent 🥹
Aw yiss - hobby science time. Splendid video as always.