Hi-Fi Real Talk ! 🚫 STOP "upgrading" the wrong way. Less is MORE
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- Опубликовано: 14 дек 2020
- We all want to upgrade out Hi-Fi rig, but sometimes adding the wrong cheap hifi tweaks can do more harm than good to your audiophile system.
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Hi-Fi Real Talk ! Maximize/evaluate your Speaker's performance in a small room
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for more info on our Reviewer info, patreon, and personal interest in our reviews: nbtsmedia.com/about-us/
Also check out a video about...
Spotify for Hi-Fi Absolutely Sucks? 🤔
ruclips.net/video/Wj4SXqsDgM8/видео.html
Why you shouldn't buy Chinese Hi-Fi products
ruclips.net/video/rvQkJYKYw0o/видео.html
Is HiFi For Rich People because I can't afford anything: ruclips.net/video/E2pjBAq-VgQ/видео.html
Hi-Fi Real Talk ! Maximize/evaluate your Speaker's performance in a small room
ruclips.net/video/i1LMzgRWfaI/видео.html
Hi Jay, be great to see you test 2x DACs connected together such as a USB to Topping D10s to Topping E30 to Amp. Then compare the combo to single DACs.
You probably dont care but if you are bored like me atm then you can stream pretty much all of the latest movies and series on InstaFlixxer. I've been streaming with my gf lately :)
@Lucas Alexzander Definitely, I've been using instaflixxer for months myself :D
Keep it simple, room treatment is reasonable, and maybe the most overlooked. Sometimes people are just gearheads though!
I would agree but on the other hand not everyone wants room treatment in their living space
I think the best way forwards in hifi is to always try things out and listen to things before buying (as and when possible).
As equally there are some great little hidden Jem's out there too..even in the bargain buckle price range! As I have just had the exact opposite experience... trying out a friends very very cheap fxaudio tube01 pre amp (with some Russian tubes) in my humble system.
Naturally I was highly sceptical at first, but luckily curious enough to give it a try for a few weeks and was so surprised with the resulting sonic improvements... as it provided exactly what I wanted and was looking for. I had demo'd and was saving up for a Freya tube pre amp yet this little thing just was great in my system...all for £40 with better tubes.
So for me the real ongoing hifi lesson (no matter what our budget) is to be open to try things out..as the real aim is to get the sound we want and also sort the chaff from the wheat.
Bargain buckle?
@@HareDeLunelol... Aah the joys of predictive text and not proof reading ...I meant bargain bucket
@@humanitech
You are not alone, my friend.
Believe me.
You’re quite right on repositioning racks, etc. In my experience positioning and room treatment, within reason, have a much greater effect than many upgrades.
Great points and channel.
Refreshing to hear someone not be a shill just to sell stuff. Hats off to you
This is exactly the reason why I always invest in integrated amplifiers instead of a pre power combination. Keep it simple is the best advice I have heard for a long time now. Congratulations, your videos are awesome, highlighting simple things that many of us have been overlooking for quite some time
I always consider my room as the main component, it may be technicaly wrong,, I don't know! But it always reminds me of how important it is, number 2 is placement, positioning of speakers. My sound has always been good with sh%tty gear paired well. Really good, not high end or anything like that, just seems to fill the room well balanced and undistorted. I've heard expensive gear in bad rooms, and it was hard to listen to. After half an hour at a party, you would end up in the kitchen talking.
100% agree, for example, in some cinema post-production auditoriums, the gear is not always exceptional (some JBL 8320 in mixing rooms or Mackies hr8 for sound design for example) but it's sound amazing because they make some crazy acoustic treatments, they hire acousticians who analyze and correct the frequency response
Don't beat yourself up Jay, experience is the best teacher, guy. You can talk with authority because you 've been there done THAT.
bruh is going off...he must be doing vlogmas because we getting A1 solid-platinum content every damn day ...and Im down for this fr fr!
Amazing timing. I just got a high quality tube buffer to add some "magic" but I found that I could get what I wanted by changing interconnect on my existing system. It was a dramatic effect.
You are correct that multiple electronics can lead to undesirable changes in the setup.
Never was much on tweaks. Especially power conditioners. I always found they constrict the musicality of amps. You covered the big two. “Speaker Placement” and “The Listening Room”. However, one tweak concerning power that did make a difference for me was putting in two dedicated 20-amp circuits with really grabby hospital grade outlets for my mono-blocks. They are class A and really like being able to freely draw current as they need it. I found this to be way less expensive than power conditioners. Plus, when you get an electrician who will pay attention to eliminating ground loops. A way more effective solution to providing good clean power, mitigating line noise, and hum. We won’t talk about my electric bill though.
I wanted to use the "less is more" simplicity of Magnepan speakers but I wanted the purity of a single ended triode amplifier which require much more sensitive speakers than Magnepan. I read about some crazy Japanese tube artist who built a SET which uses broadcast AM radio station transmitter tubes, the 833A, which is as big as a quart jar. Because I cannot afford most audio gear that I like, I have been designing and building my own amps and preamps for years. I wanted to build an 833A SET which I could do for a small fraction of the cost of any of the ho-hum high end tube amplifiers advertised in Stereophile and The Absolute Sound. I began the project and I had to try out and pick the best sounding designs from many alternatives. My final design uses a 45 SET transformer coupled to the grid of the 833A through a straight 5K to 600 Ohm headphone transformer. By a salubrious coincidence, the 833A can run at zero grid bias drawing only 125 ma with 1000 Volts on the plate.There is no grid voltage power supply in the signal path circuit of transformer windings to the grounded cathode and the grid. Less is more. The cathode heater has to be pure DC and I had to build a 10 Volt 10 amp supply which requires pre-charging the 4.5 Farad final ripple filter capacitor. At 1000 Volts and little over 1/10 an Ampere the 833A will last a long time and it never has to be driven hard enough to introduce distortion. The 833A has to be the Stradivari of music reproducing vacuum tubes. I and visitors have never heard anything like it.
Big thanks for the reminder, man
Great advice!! Thanks!
Isolated Power Supply is the upgrade that is value for money (less than US2K). It will certainly outlast other components. Acoustics treatment in your room is another.
You wasted 2k.
Enjoy your videos very much. Old timer here trying to stay current.
It is generally recommended to plug amps into the wall outlet, not a power conditioner, with certain exceptions. Your ears heard what they should heard. Power conditioners can have a negative audible effect on amps.
I look forward to your video on use of power conditioners with other components. I believe the results will be different.
Valid points. I think one should ask, what am I lacking in my current setup? Such as, I wish I had better separation, soundstage, less noise, etc to see how the problem can be addressed. The next question is based on the sound chain: is the problem caused by an inherint characteristic of a component? For example, if you feel the sound is a bit fatiguing and you are using a headphone that is known to be fatiguing (maybe you don't know about it yet) or an amp that can be fatuiguing, do further research on the components to see if there are others complaining about the same thing. Sometimes there is only so much you can do with tweaking to alter components default sound signature and presentation; you can't transform them to something they are not. Pairing to neutralize counter balance some decifiencies may help... to a certain extent.
The answer is easier than that but needs measurements. Hifi is about obtaining a low noise floor across the entire system.
Fix what has the highest noise floor first. Typically you go (1) Room (2) Speaker (3) Amp then (4) Source/tweaks and (5) Power Supply.
But people arent logical nor objective.. we buy what is pretty to us...
Room Treatment is a must for me i can play a real 3-5watts peak and run you out of my nearfield room ! And yes the only reason i have an audiostand is because of me utube channel if i had one system yeah it would be on the floor in a heartbeat ! That will really open the sound up ! Also have your speakers grounded down the best you can spikes/boards whatever it takes also jays right move your speakers but also move your LISTING CHAIR ! Thanks Jay great job as always !
Seldom do I hear positive results of amps/power conditioners. I get the tube buffer idea, but better to get a tube preamp.
love the tone of this. Keep it real
Yes, you have learned with your ears👍. This is good advice that some may not like.
Great points! I considered adding a sub, but after optimizing my system I reckon I don't really need one. ... Although a nice sub would be sweet.
I've had my VAC PA 100 100 tube amp and ARC LS15 tube pre amp since 1995
I've changed speakers & sources over the years, but one source I'm hanging onto is my Oppo BD 105! Recently l have added a Exogal Comet Plus DAC and Audiolab 6000N streamer and to me both are excellent additions My current speakers are the Magnepan .7's
I have good interconnects and speakers wire, but not crazy expensive and no tweaks to speak of. I've always used the Brickwall surge protector for my equipment and not sure that would be considered a tweak
I would like to present a dissenting opinion...
If you are strapped for cash, the advice in this video is spot on... however... If you can afford it, try EVERYTHING. You don't necessarily have to get the best of the best, but get the best you can afford, and try out multiple combinations of equipment and accessories! Maybe you hit a magic combination (yes there are some) that is far better than the sum of it's parts. You can usually return big ticket items within a time window... Other stuff you can bite the bullet and sell to someone else to try.
That was how I stumbled on one mid/low combination that I absolutely love, and I sold off some higher priced items (and moved some to the bedroom system) in favour of it.
You may laugh but I am running a Fluance RT85 turntable (with the Ortofon Blue cartridge) , through Ortofon RCA cables to a Chinese Little Bear T11 all tube preamp (fed power through a cheap WAudio power cable) with matched ElectroHarmonix Ukrainian tubes... This sounds better (to my ears) than any other combination I have heard... None of those are really expensive, but the sum of the parts sounds better to me (again it's my ears that matter in my place) than a turntable four times the price playing through a much "better" preamp...
I wouldn't have tripped over this combination if I hadn't been experimenting with lots of different pieces... I have 3 different full systems in my home, and when I get new stuff I swap all kinds of things around between them to see if I find any unexpected synergy.
Again... If you only have one system, and you can't afford to buy a bunch of stuff you might not keep... The video is right... Go minimalist. One good source, one good amp, great speakers and acoustic treatment and work your way up. (towers! ... Bookshelf speakers are for surrounds! LOL)
Looking forward to your power conditioner "another topic for another day" RUclips video, given I'm thinking of buying either PSAudio or Audioquest Niagara.
Audioquest Niagara is the superior choice between the two, power regeneration isn't as good. PS Audio's stuff in general are not the best for the money.
Nah regenerators are better than "filters'" in general but they are system dependent. I have a P12 and I love it!
Normal power conditioners tend to smooth out the sound but strangle the dynamics. The PS Audio Powerplants don't work that way, they recreate a sine wave by regenerating the power and to me they sound good.
Totally depends on the mains you are connected to. I bought a PS Audio "power plant" some years ago. It takes your AC mains input, converts AC power to DC and then back to AC output so it's nice and clean and stable. Yeah it helped when I was on a main street in a medium sized city next to a large restaurant running electric motors all day but I haven't needed it since relocating to a rural area which provides AC power that is normally clean and stable. The power used by the unit itself became a problem as well. Overheating tended to be an issue and electricity costs money. Removing it made one less link in the chain to operate and pay for, basically like shutting off a small space heater that was running all the time. Free advice? Monitor your power source first. You can't fix a problem that isn't there.
Boulder Audio, the maker of $200k high end amps that is universally acclaimed, specifically said PS audio power plants do weird things to the power and they don't recommend it
I think I'm good for now, but I did just order about $ 300 in tubes..
I agree that you should think more on your chain and avoid overspending. Simple is, for me, better. However, side note: you actually may not get your noise higher is your chain if you add something. If you add in the digital side, you basically don't add any noise, maybe just some delay (emphasis on maybe). If you add on the analog side, you can maybe add to the noise floor, but you can get a higher SNR, because a cleaner gain earlier in the chain is more beneficial. Of course, you have to look for distortion and other stuff, but it's just to keep this in mind. Look out for the Friis formula for noise to understand this better.
I believe having all your equipment plugged into the same dedicated 120VAC electrical phase is huge for keeping noise down and incoming phase issues unless you have noise coming in from outside like your at the end of the transformer line. normally noise from your neighbor isn't an issue. it works for me, I can turn my amp up all the way and with no signal i cant hear anything from my speakers. Easy enough to try with a good extension cord. But not all amps are that quite depending on the damping factor. Like tubes would have a tendency to have more noise. Granted a lot of this isn't audible while playing music. So really is a none issue. It's usually pretty easy process of elimination where the noise is coming from. Sometimes it's just separating the high level cables from the low level cables.
power conditioner was the best upgrade for my system. can;t imagine changing an existing component and upgrading it with a 500 euros more expensive piece, and getting the outcome i got by adding a power cnditioner in the 600 euro range
So let me tell you as story... My dekstop system comprises a Mac Mini, Burson Conductor over USB, Vista Audio Spark 2 integrated amp and Harbeth P3ESR speakers. Up to yesterday I was thinking my Burson Conductor DAC was maybe too bright in my desktop system or that I needed to upgrade my amp, because the treble of the Vista Spark 2 was maybe not refined enough for the Harbeths and the bass was lacking. I was also thinking that maybe I had way to many reflections in my setup causing this sharpness. Based on some advice I read on a forum I decided to change my relatively cheap $25 RCA cables for Oyaide neo d+ class a cables and my standard OFC copper speaker cables for Oyaide Explorer V2. BOOMMMM!! Huge change in the system. It is a if my older RCA cables could just not handle the resolution coming from the Burson, resulting in thin bass and sharpness in the treble. The biggest change came from the upgrade of the RCA cables, the speaker cables only were a small step in comparison. The problems I had with sharpness or edginess almost fully disappeared and the bass on the Harbeths went from lacking and thin sounding to full sounding. The difference was as big as going from my Aune X8 dac to the Burson Conductor. My advice for anyone upgrading your components, also upgrade the cables!! The previous cables I had worked fine with the Aune X8 / Triangle Borea combo, but not when you step up the game. I am not saying you need to spent a few hundreds of dollars on 1 cable, but just buy something with decent copper conductivity like the Oyaide cables that use 102 SSC copper as conductor. It has been the best tweak I have made this year and it was a relatively cheap one.
Jay, what are those diffuser panels on the wall? They look good. How much difference do they make to the sound quality?
Jay, please compare direct DAC with variable volume to power amps and then insert the DOGE preamp. Do you gain or lose sound quality?
Yes, you are right on, expensive cables will not make a bad amp sound good.
I feel that voltage regulation is more important than conditioned power. You dont want sagging voltage in your system. I agree less is more as you will achieve a cleaner single path. This shouldn't only apply to your system components. But also everything on a circuit to your home breaker panel. Thats why many people use a dedicated line straight to their system. But that is a topic for another day lol
Start with the source component.Interconnects. Preamplifier. Power amplifier. Speaker cable. Speakers. The most important audio components in a sound system are the source components Every other audio component in the system merely passes on this signal with greater or lesser accuracy. None can enhance or improve it.
Hey Jay,
if you do have an audio rack for once, it wouldn't be interesting to keep it behind your speakers.
Grtz Phil
The obvious place to upgrade in a system is the speakers. Next is amplification. Then digital sources. The future of audio is in room correction/EQ such as Anthem ARC and others as the room acoustics is as important to sound quality as anything else. Some people have limited ability to add acoustic panels and such or even the ability to move speakers around much if at all Less is often more is good advice and of course applies to so much in life.
Upgrading from entry level component to mid level usually wont go wrong. But upgrading from mid to hi-end takes alot of risks and can be hard to justify if the outcome does not suit your taste.
Thanks Jay!
Good message.
What do you want out of your sound? More bass? Add a sub. More warmth? Get some tubes. Not loud enough? Sit closer. Etc etc. stop listening to the gear and start listening to the music.
Part of the fun is experimenting with different electronics .
R to 'R trend started by Mr. Soekris who has a new version of his top model 2541. Perfect for a Zoom interview. Some mulit $1000 equipment uses his board as there DAC guts.
By the way nice videos man
the worst thing to add to a signal chain.. An EQ ... especially a smiling one...
Ya but spending money is more fun than trying-this, trying-that too much work. ^) Another often asked question is, "what am I missing, what can I buy to make me happier?" -rolleyes.
Thanks for trying to talk me out of my future bad decisions. I look forward to regretting not listening to you.
I see them Alyssas in the back. I cant wait for the review!
Does this mean you recommend an integrated amplifier over an amplifier & pre-amp as separate components ... as a general rule?
Definitely not. Even budget, used separates are often times better than expensive integrateds. Within reason of course.
I added cheap FX audio (tube 01) tube buffer and the difference is substantial
that hing is great
I still want to try a tube buffer, im opting for the DIY approach for experience, ive never really messed with the hybrid approach so Im curious : )
I have the iFi tube2. It really brings in life if you feel ur system is sterile.
I also have a Icon Audio BA3 Buffer Amplifier and it’s been a great addition to my system. Adding a more life like holographic soundstage minus any additional audible noises has been my experience.
@@lionellandrews9606 im just going for the bare PCB of the little bear tube buffer & a set of GE tubes. The goal is to fabricate a wood chassis and add a remote control pot.
@@AllboroLCD I had a little bear tube buffer that was never right, it added loud clipping distortion to the signal. GE tubes made no difference either. I have a feeling it was the cheapo volume knob, but I'm no expert.
I love having a preamp and listening to others and changing them and all. I hate intigrated you can't tweak as much.
After years of trials, i understood how crucial the power amp is. When you find a real good amp (i own Sanders magtech amps), the others components make a little to no difference in the system. The speakers of course are crucial too (i own Usher Audio Be-10) but with a perfect amp, it all that matters at the end...
There is no real difference in amps, blind testing between a Sony of about €150,- and a AVM of around €4000,- made that real clear. Speakers were B&W 801D.
Any amp decent amp will just increase the input linear over the entire frequency response.
@@robertwillemen6407 Damn wrong. The clipping appears when the volume goes up in several hifi amp with low power. On heavy power amps, it may be more difficult to spot the differences if they are well engineered. With a good amp, the source in blind test is irrelevant. Cables work like filters so the lower the resistance, inductance and capacitance the better (except on fast speakers like electrostatics ones).
@@laiguilleetlefeu3240 it all depends on your speakers and the volume levels you are listening on... You really need a bad amp with most of today's efficient loudspeakers to start clipping.
Choice and placement of speakers and room treatment will always be the best way to enhance your sound quality
@@laiguilleetlefeu3240 if your cables work like filters than you have crappy cables!
You need kilometres of cable for those things to affect sound quality
@@robertwillemen6407 At low volume, every amps can't clip so they will sound the same. High efficiency speakers are not good enough for high fidelity in my experience.
Try high resistance cables and low resistance ones with short length and dare to find no differences.
Hi Jay, I want to ask a question. It's going to be a bit controversial but it's what I truly believe. Firstly, I've been into Hifi for a long time now and have been having lots of fun with vintage equipments, one of the reasons because they are relatively cheap to buy. However, it terms of really hearing the music how its intended, I honestly believe you have to spend at least 5k on a Hifi setup to at least start to hear how the music sounded live in the studio. 10k will get you to a point where you are hearing "honesty", in that I mean where colouration becomes invisible and doesn't put a veil on the reproduction.
Bugdet and mid-fi is adequate for casual listening.. But for real Hifi, unfortunately serious money is needed.
What do you think?
Good points.
I will upgrade with tube preamp (Schiite Freya +)...It was going to be reasonably cheap upgrade,but i already spent £1k in tubes.I bought many NOS 6SN7 tubes and then discovered that 2C22 tubes are much better (used with an adapter)and x10 cheaper 😅....Well thank God there is Ebay and i can resale something i don't like in the future...
My buddy eliminated all stuff in path Creating the shortest path went from Bluesound to dac to amplifier. To speakers this was recommended by Tommy O’Brien From digital amplifier company check out his stuff
"Put your equipment on the floor"
And that's what you say, who made "cable lifters"
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Hi Jay this is one of your best videos to date for me,I`m not into the speakers,dac`s bla bla rubbish,sorry no offense intended,do like your denafrips video though(lol).
This was a true & honest video & I`ve had the same experiences as you so can vouch for what you`re saying here,cheers happy holidays from the u.k.
#hifi4ever
#vinyl4ever
#music4ever
I tried a Chang Lightspeed powerline filter 25 years ago and it sucked so I always plug amplifiers directly into the wall. I've upgraded the outlets with commercial grade outlets. Not sure they make any difference but they're more rugged.
25 years ago was before the internet. So I would read reviews, call people and dealers looking for answers. They would always try to sell me something. So I would buy things just to sell them later and lose money. I once talked to Ted Denney of Synergistic Research for an hour. He was talking about some voodoo pixie dust nonsense. He's one of the biggest bullshit artists in the industry. Don't call people like him. And try everything before you buy.
Just curious as to what Synergistic product you tried that didn't work?
@@solarfall2728 That was over 20 years ago but it was some real expensive cables. I thought they sounded terrible. So I called and was totally unprepared for what I was about to hear from Ted Denney. It was like supernatural black magic occult crap. I swear he was making it up as he spoke. I sent the cables back to the dealer and disregarded any publication that reviewed their products. A lot of the high end business was like that at the time. You have to take everything with a grain of salt. Do your own research.
Hmmm baby alta alec’s in the back ground,can hardly wait for the review!
Sometimes we just like to buy a new toy
Bought the tube buffer in the picture with good money. Tap on the tubes, should hear microphonics right? But you will hear nothing. Basically a scam. Also switch off and on the wrong order and it will pop, can fry your amp if you are unlucky. You have good ears.
well said
Something about your voice is satisfying
Me, I like his hair! 😆🤦♀️
I'm suprised by your power conditioner woes (boy some people in the US must have crap power) and trying to imagine how it could degrade things
imo: power conditioners are pure BS snake oil. A total waste of money. I've never experienced ANY improvement by putting one into a system...mine or someone else's systems.
The electrical engineering in your source or amp either works or its dangerous. The 12v electrical signal going to your speakers is either good or bad, there's no in between, a spectrum or better than good.
You see $500 to $10000 'pure' cables going for sale online, its just twisted copper in a pvc jacket and none of it matters. The whole audiophile space is full of scams.
Man your wrong about that yaquin. My friend sent me a fully modded one with soviet mig tubes ....with my p7000 halfler and marantz it beat my 7000$ genelecs adelle uses . No offense but why pick that for the picture? It works great ! It called an SET follower configuration. It beats my gu700 technics hands down. Because of that modded yaquin.
💯
Yes, less is more..!!
Millions of People all over the World are buying high end phone’s. The audio technology built into these phone’s today means you already bought the best audio quality available that fits in your pocket along with millions of applications available.All on one device.
This is why high end home audio stores have been closing like crazy. Phones have already killed the CD business. Some stores have stopped selling CD’s, that trend will continue. Music labels are not going to produce CD’s if sales profits don’t warrant it.
People’s lifestyle’s have been changing dramatically. That trend will continue.
The couch potato generation is dying off filling up the cemeteries.
I know some people will get mad at me for saying this, but I feel that the internet has hurt the high end audio industry, more than helped it. Before the internet, there were real consequences to your actions. If you made a mistake on a pair of $5000 speakers, for example, you knew you would only get about 25 cents on the dollar trade in value. You either got better at making purchases, or you got out of the hobby. With the internet, anyone can be a reviewer, and anyone can make much better deals buying and selling gear. I'm not saying this is all bad, but I see too many people changing gear instead of learning what to not buy in the first place.
hilarious....I bought one of that stupid Yaqin tube buffer in your thumbnail pic.
Complete waste of money....not to mention the 3 sets of tubes I bought for it.
It did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
Replacing the brass jumpers on my speakers with some 8AWG cardas speaker cables for $25 made a big difference on my speaker's sound
Nice first comment
Paul (PS Audio) doesn't like power conditioning. He is always going on about how conditioning is bad and you should get a regenerator
Yeah BUT his company MAKES regenerators so I've say he's a bit biased wouldn't you? In fact PS Audio is one of the only company that makes them and they sell several models!
what jay is saying is ........ just get a receiver
Get your gear off your rack and put it on the floor ?!? The worst advice I have ever heard LOL
Not a great video. U must be running out of ideas.
Well expensive DACs are complete BS for a start.
It depends on what you mean by expensive! Its all a matter of perspective.