Advanced MTB Suspension Setup - How To Find The Perfect Balance
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2024
- Suspension nerd Seb Stott talks through the process of fine tuning your suspension for the perfect balance of support and suppleness. Whether it's low & high speed compression, spring rate, low & high speed rebound damping or the use of volume spaces, this video covers everything you need to know.
MTB Suspension Setup - How To Get It Dialled In 10-Minutes - • 10 Minute Suspension S...
1:56 - Spring rate
3:45 - Progression (Volume spacers)
5:20 - LSC (start anti clockwise)
9:20 - HSC
11:25 - LSC and HSC progressive / regressiv
12:48 - Set up steps
13:10 - Rebound
17:50 - Ride the same trail again and again ;)
I've watched the Fox Dialed series, GMBN tech, and countless others who all seem to regurgitate the same lingo from suspension manufacturers to just "set it in the middle", "bracket", and "doesn't matter how you setup as long as you do it consistently any time you make adjustments". That's all well and good, but then I feel like I'm just blindly turning dials and searching for a difference. This video gives me direction. It reminds me that everyone's riding will differ, but makes it easier to diagnose a problem and have a general idea of what dial to turn and what direction. Now to find half a day and a trail I can repeat...
Agree 100%. I've watched all of those too, but this one explained it the best.
Easily the most detailed, yet easy to understand suspension video I’ve seen. Thanks!
Finally! A clear explanation of low speed compression adjustment. Great video!
Two of the most interesting mtb videos I have ever watched.
Glad you found them useful!
Very detailed indeed. No other cycling channel has this amount of detail on suspension. Good job BikeRadar.
Vorsprung Suspension, it will blow your socks away.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS EXCELLENT EXPLANATION! For me this kind video with deep, complete and easy explanation, costs hundreds of nice videos from GMBN. Now we have too many different video channels and vlogers, but it's usually more fun, or even lost of the time. but this video is something that I rewatched several time (some of the difficult moments) saved in my video library and will share with my friends. Please keep doing like that, this kind of content is a gold on RUclips and differentiates you from others.
Thanks for the kind words Yuri. Any suggestions for topics you'd like to see covered in the future?
I guess all cycling subjects can be retold if they are retold in a better way as you did with suspension setup. I believe if you have deep knowledge in any cycling subject it will be very interesting to watch. For me right now the questions related to wheels and tires are interesting: In long term I'm planning to make an upgrade on my hard tail and full suspension bikes, and there are several related question that sounds easy, but they still make me thinking:
1. what is the optimal tires width. There are many factors that influence this decision: terrain, type of riding etc. - it can be already nice video, if it will be also complete and deep overview. In my case I want to be fast and light, but I was impressed with amount of grip that wide tires provide in the corners) 1.1 does it make sense to use wider tire in front to have more grip there?
2. what should be rim width in relation to tire width? and if to ignore this relation what are the consequences: e,g now I have light rim with internal width 20mm, what if I install 2,35 or even 2.6 inch tire for the winter period (with snow)? this sounds as not a good idea, right? so I'm thinking about buying wider carbon rim e.g int. rim width 30.mm. to add more stability to the tire, but then in summer if I consider to use this perfect wheel-set with slimier tires, e.g. 2.25 will it be okay? what are the pluses and minuses of the 30mm rims with narrow tires, or will it be better to select 25mm rim as a compromise
3. how to balance tires and suspension pressure? to make tires softer to absorb the small bumps or suspension
This is the best video I’ve seen on this subject. Thank you!
Thank you so much for the good info and detailed explanation of the differences between HSC vs. LSC.
videos like this are so much more helpful the second time, i finally get it now
Fantastic. I find it all so confusing but this pretty much sorts it out. I can't believe I found it so hard to get a grasp on which direction to turn the dials.
WOW!!! This is absolutely the BEST suspension video out there, period. Save it and watch it over and over. His explanation for tuning your air spring rate by pressure rather than sag is deep, and I had to wrap my mind around it. But once I got it and how volume spacers affect pressure...game changer.
This video explained low speed compression to me in such a nice simple way.
Finally... everything explained as it should. Definitely an asset video. I am curious about those disliked the video. These are the guys you don’t want to mess with your suspension settings😂
this was an amazing episode. i really learned how suspension works. great work guys!
Love the deep dive. A lot of youtube videos are short and simple mostly catering towards beginners but this is more my like it. I have a little notebook I keep track and make notes about my suspension setup. I found this help me approach my setup in a more scientific way.
Been wanting to fully understand this for ages
Thanks for producing such an in depth, yet clear and easy to follow video
Suspension is no longer a dark art and I now know how to get the most out of my bike!
This is a really great video! Helped me understand how to get my suspension dialed from start to finish.
Thanks for watching!
Cheers Seb. That was massively useful. I was always confused about the interplay sag/PSI, LSC, and volume spacers. Now I understand! I've always found my Pike a bit jarring on square edge hits. Now I think I know why. Guess I'm just going to have to hit the trails and do a bit of tweaking :)
Suspension nerds unite! ✊🏻
🤘🏼🐻🤘🏼
Thanks. I will rewatch this a few more times.
Best suspension setup explanation video! Thank you, great work again!
Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for watching!
very helpful, a lot better than any other ones
thanks heaps for those two videos especially the the second one as i had really been struggleing with my set up but you guys have put it in a way thats verry easy to understand thank heaps . keep up the great work
Dudes, just perfect, congratulations
I've been taught that sag is everything. After you set sag then add volume spacers if you are bottoming out. If you try to add more pressure you don't end up using all of your travel and won't be as supple.
Coming from motocross, that’s how I was taught as well with the best results. Reducing sag is a symptom of poorly valved suspension in my opinion.
this was a very detailed video and the best one when it comes to suspension. Good job!👍
Best explanation ever🤘
Thank you, you make best videos for suspension tuning
Great to hear you liked the video and thanks for watching!
Great job everyone!
As a complete newb to Mountain biking, I appreciate the simplicity of this explanation. Unfortunately, no matter how many videos I watch, I still can't wrap my head around the need for setting sag.
Out of pure curiosity, what would be the adverse effect of skipping Sag and just going straight to setting the compression?
Wouldn't the more extensive range of compression settings, already cover the smaller sag settings? Almost like a 'Buy 1, get 1 free' kind of concept?
Hopefully, I'm making sense. lol. 😄
I have the new YT capra pro race and came from the Giant reign carbon but with the 36 rc2 fork and x2 shock so the same as my new bike but the settings wouldn't work when I transferred over to my new bike. I ride a 4 mile loop in the forest 13.5 miles and 5 or 6 times a week and come from a motocross back ground and admit I am a suspension nerd. Your video is very good. I ride the same loop I can feel the difference if one day is wet and one day is warm without even changing settings. The fox x2 shock is superb with very fine adjustment and gives great feel.
I agree best video so far on this
Thanks for watching the video, hope you found it useful!
Great video mate , very informative and makes a not of sense . Your like the Brian cox of bikes ,you make complicated stuff sound easy to understand
This explains it so well. Thankyou.
My dudes!!!!!! I needed this
Ok, great video. If I roll over roots very fast, is it more Low or High Speed Compression? I mean in an rather flat terrain, not those huge root drops.
Thanks!
idk if you ever got an answer but its probably low speed.
Vorsprung have some good vids if you want to nerd out on this stuff. Good vid guys.
Great video, I saw this from the free MTB guide I got online somewhere. I love my new budget Sr sun tour remote lock out shocks I got from eBay that I stuck some Sr suntour XCM stickers but I am unsure if I can adjust them which hopefully a bicycle store can help me with 😅
Good vid, I'm using progressive setup with a little low speed damping but high speed damping is 1 out from full for big hits (rock shox Vivid Air)
Vivid doesn´t have adjustable high speed compression (unless you tuned shimstack)
Next video suggestion:
Expert MTB Suspension Setup - How to change shims for different oil flow + oil viscosity.
I am about to service my DVO Topaz T3 shock and my Formula Selva EX. The shock is phenomenal, my fork can not keep up with it and I did that much with almost all CTS drop-in valves to change the suspension curve, played with the progression with the ballistol oil on the air chamber instead of tokens but I can not find a setup who will balance the bike front to rear.
This is really frustrating and I only can think about to change the oil at this point with a better viscosity for faster oil flow.
Any other Suggestions? Maybe a professional tuner?
You need to balance spring rates and progressivity first and foremost, not mess with damping instead.
Superb explanation.
COMPREHENSIVE! You’ve earned a subscriber 👌
Glad to have you onboard!
Yeah Seb, great vid! Will look into this on the new bike 👊
Great video although has anyone had the issue of when you put lots of low speed compression that it makes a noise quite irritating
Seb is the man!
What I do is I run my fork 180mm and shock 160mm at 30% sag. Then I put 5/6 volume spacers on the rear shock and set the rebound so it overshoots sag by 5 - 8%. I run no volume spacers in the fork giving it a nice and linear feel. I am still a light and young rider about 56kg in riding gear. So u may want some volume spacers in the fork. However my shock and fork feel great. 👍.
great explanation ..thanks a lot
Great ! Thank You so much !
I have a Cane Creek DBAirCS. If my main concern is safe predictable jump take-offs (everything else is just comfort) is it mainly LSC and LSR to prevent bucking? Is HSC and HSR mainly in play during landing big drops? Thanks!
Thats exactly what I needed! Thank you sooo much! :)
Great explanations!
So silly question from a roadie, doesn't the temperature effect the pressure in the shocks (mean of course it does, but maybe not enough to matter)? also don't they warm up after some hard riding, and thus increase the pressure as well?
Not a silly question at all! Air temperature will affect spring rate. Going from 0°C to 20°C will increase pressure (and therefore spring rate) by about 7% (the pressure is roughly proportional to the temperature measured in Kelvin). This will also affect the viscosity of damping oil slightly; so as the air temperature increases, the spring gets firmer and the damping gets softer, making for a springier ride. More importantly, dampers generate lots of heat (that's what they do). In air shocks, the heat from the damper can raise the temperature, and therefore the pressure, of the air in the spring. Again, this leads to a springier feel on long descents. That's why it's common to get bucked on jumps at the bottom of long downhill tracks. A famous example would be the jumps at the bottom of the Fort William World cup track, where it's not uncommon for top-level racers to go over the bars. In that case, you might want to start with your suspension too soft and slow, so it's "optimised" when up to temperature.
hsr and lsr finaly clarified
Great video, thank you!!
thank you thank you thank you for the clarity ;)
Good subject
This is such a useful and insightful video. Hats off and great deal of respect for putting this out!
I still have a question though: my FOX 34 Fit4 fork does have only simple rebound adjustment (not HSR/ LSR) and after 2 years of tinkering with it, I still can't make it to feel right in all conditions.
I am particularly dissatisfied with how it performs over rockgardens and roots at lower speeds, being overly harsh and giving me the feeling that I'm riding a mad bull that want's to buck me over.
On the other hand, if I attack technical sections at higher speeds, it is quite ok. I have to mention that I run a volume spacer, and that I have 160mm of travel, but never use full travel, not even after drops or jumps. Any tips on improving the sensitivity/overall feel and way it reacts on the more low speed chunk?
I don't think it's possible to ride rock gardens and roots at low speed without feeling like you're riding a bull, you just need to work on your line and/or hit it faster
Since it’s harsh at low speeds and you never use full travel, it sounds like your air pressure is too high. Your rebound is mainly LSR. Set it just slow enough to keep it from bouncing as in the video with the LSC on top full open (fast). Leave it there and ride.
At 8:20 the fork compresses all the way and the drop isn’t even that big. Can someone explain why that is? Too little psi? Rebound? I have the same thing happening to my bike on bigger drops and I don’t know what to do.
1 Springrate 2 in this case HSC and HSR because it’s the second part off the travel/ high speed impact. There is a lot of bodyweight at the front of the mtb.
Thank you Seb!
Very well done!
Really helpful! Thank you!
So good. THANK YOU!
Glad you found the video useful!
Something that i find (nearly) allways to be missig in such guides is, that you cant have everything. Your suspension cant be set up to work optimally on jumps, small bumps, berms, rough terrrain, flat sections, drops and steep sections. It is just impossible. While this isnt something that helps you to set up your suspension, it is something thats important, because some riders never find a point that they are happy at so they keep screwing around with their suspension, hoping they can make it do everything perfectly. He talked about it in relation to rebound, but not in general.
You're absolutely right. You can't have everything; it's all about compromise. Finding that compromise is what this video is all about.
When you do dirt jumps you need max pressure
Pole M A C H I N E ftw !
Great video thanks i made it to the edn!
Ok, no volume spacers and HSC and LSC almost dialed all the way open. Fork feels supportive and tracks ground fairly well, but it only uses 75% of travel even on larger hits, drops etc. I should lower spring rate, then use compression to dial back in support if wallowey? 2020 fox factory 36, grip 2.
Awesome video. Quick question: I'm getting way too much vibration through my bars into my hands but I am always very close to bottoming out my fork. I ride Queenstown bike park mostly so lots of very steep trail with very deep ruts but also lost of fast chattery stuff. Because of this, I'm gripping my bars a lot more and have developed a gripping related injury in my fingers (A2 pulley injury for any budding physios out there). So after watching your video, I'm thinking I should try some volume spacers/tokens instead of reducing the amount of air in the suspension. Does that sound right? Thanks!
You could also try softer grips and maybe carbon bars to reduce the vibrations going through your hands
Awesome video! How would you change the settings on muddy conditions? Thanks
Maybe a bit less rebound damping and a bit more compression damping
very informative video, thanks! but i have a question, how much compression is consider too much to relook into the spring rate? more than 1/2 of the total compression dial? 3/4 of the compression dial?
the spring rate and damping rate are two different things even though they have somewhat similar effect sometimes. If your spring rate isn´t good, no amount of damping will correct it .
You forgot to say... If you play with any setting then you need to revisit your rebound speed. For example pressure change effects rebound speed
Great video thanks
Glad you enjoyed it. Have you tried out any of the tips in the video yet?
Didn't know shocks or forks have hsr I always thought of volume spacers as that. Is there a difference , just curious I have a dpx2 with a spacer about double the size of stock and love it for the terrain I seek out.
Very informative
Is high and low seller compression affected by weight.
No, just shaft speed.
What if you have many styles of riding on the same rig? I ride XC, All mountain, DH and Park all on my Patrol? Surprisingly my ride feels good on all these types of terrain?
i tend to set rebound a little slower on the fork than what you gus suggest, but counter the packup by adding low speed compressin. do some pros do that as well?
Brilliant!
very helpful
I recently swapped my Trek Remedy for a Scott Voltage, and I am now running on a Coil Shock, I have checked the manufacturer chart and the spring rate is just fine for me. I went for a ride last week and I found myself nose diving on jumps, I tried slowing down the rebound and it helped but I was still not comfortable with the way things was going.
I have now tried to change the bike configuration from 190mm to 170mm on the shock do you think this can help? Do you have any tips that can help me get airborne safely? Maybe too little rebound on the fork?
Thank you!
Hey Bruno, You're right to slow down the rebound on the shock - that's a good first step. Another cause of nosediving on jumps can be using too much travel on the take-off transition. In this case, increasing low-speed compression damping can help to hold the shock a bit higher in its travel, so it has less travel to rebound through. You might also want to double-check the spring rate on the fork and shock and make sure they feel balanced when you compress the suspension on flat ground. Ultimately, though, good jumping demands good technique, as well as good setup.
HSR or LSR for getting (nearly) bucked on lips? This is also consistent lips... as in the same ones that don’t look any different (eg 2nd tabletop at cannop for a small one but as you are there in the vid) or one specific but not the biggest or steepest on the new red @417 ... and on the same bike and shock.. CC DB Air CS ... in fact with CS left on by accident it doesn’t happen ... Equally doesn’t happen on the road gap or table top (cannop in your vid) ... it’s almost there ... I just don’t want to start randomly playing with both...
Hey Stephen, If your suspension is rebounding like we showed you in the more basic video (link in description) and you're still getting bucked, that suggests your HSR is too fast. I'd slow that down first. If you're still getting bucked, start slowing down the LSR. I'd say with HSR it's safer to start with it closed to avoid getting bucked, then speed it up until it starts to feel too unpredictable on big impacts.
Thanks Seb, I'll give it a go with the HSR closed next time and open it slowly it's on 2/4 so I have 2 turns ... I still need to remove "user error" in terms of why it only seems to happen on specific lips... Perhaps a part of this is I'm expecting it to happen and going stiff... but although non of these are particularly big they are big enough for the LSR to return and equally big enough that I'd like to avoid a nose dive OTB. (stuff breaks more easily my side of 50) I should drag the HT over and then I'm 100% certain I have no shock rebound issues :D
This is a new (to me) frame and shock (Mega 275 in the old Large)... and the other thing I noticed is in general the back feels lethargic/settled on trails compared to my Medium T-130. This isn't unexpected...(being longer, slacker and more travel). it just seems at odds with the kick I'm getting on the Mega on jumps..
can the rockhox judy silver fit volume spacers i heard some forks can't fit those ?
I need a classroom instruction on getting my FS rig to where I feel comfortable and not being tossed out of the saddle.
I weigh around 160lb all geared up and i have 2 volume spacers on my x2 (150mm travel) and i feel its too progressive. should i try 0 spacer or just take out 1?
I would NOT start with LSC wide open... Running damper settings all the way open or closed usually means that your spring rate is waaay off and you'll be trying to compensate for the issues created with a fully open/closed damper setting with having another setting way off. So if HSC was closed up all the way, running the rebound wide open to "prevent packing" will just make things worse. You really need to adjust spring rates with volume spacers and air pressure if you find yourself adjusting the settings wide open/closed.
I don't know what to feel, i have been riding hardtails forever , the rear shock just feels good
How does the CTD switch affect things? Is it high or low speed compression (or both)?
Mtb Highlands I have a Fox 32 float 110mm and the CTD is low speed.
Best thing i did was put a Vorsprung Luftkappe in my pikes, Feel like a totally different set of forks compared to standard. Couldn't recommend it enough
2019 DebonAir airshaft should do the same for less $$. And it's retrofitable.
@@pulDag that wasn't available when I got the luftkappe last year haha
thanks!
epiq!!! thank you
Thank bikeradar. Now i. Finnally understand
Is there any way to make the shock harder without affecting the sag
Not "harder" maybe, but harsher, by dialing in compression.
please help, i have a sr suntour epixon, can i use volume spacers? i cant find anything on the internet.
Can someone please help
I have my sag, rebound dialed
But my bike shakes a lot on small pumps
And it doesn’t sit enough for my liking to turn fast
I need help figuring out what clicks to make
i need some help, i setup my fox 40 preload to the recommended sag on the website (i cant recall the exact measurement) but i am not using the full travel on my bike, even with every other knob open all the way?
It will probably be that you have 1 or 2 more volume spacers than you need. There easy to take out ( just take off the air cap) but take it for a ride before you do so. Go through this video and there other, simpler one to make sure everything is set correctly. Then consider removing a spacer.
@@Luca-ft1kv lol i should've clarified its a coil fork
@@TheDHJunkie might be theirs excessive air trapped in the lowers or their might be to much oil in the lowers. Thats about all i could think of. You might have to ask someone else
I have a rockshox pike 160mm fork on my kona and always wondered what the charger damper meant. They made the knob blue so at first I thought it was a low speed compression adjustment but I don't think it is. I always just leave it fully open but could someone explain this to me?
If you have a single dial with multiple, I believe it is LSC.
Sooo, in a nut shell rent or buy a shock whiz and it will do all the thinking for you and all u do is turn knobs!
You can't have 1 setup for all trails. One setup might be perfect for one trail and not good for another. It's a continual thing and needs to be adjusted according to the terrain involved and style of trail.
Set it slightly too firm and roll it back until comfortable.
That’s right. Actually, he also says that when he talks about downhillers that use a more solid setup. But it's important that you mention it!👍🏻
@@sportiefbezigutrecht3883 Yes the firmer setup the better for racing. Racing isn't about being comfortable, it's about being fast.
se ve algún sendero de la sierra de Mijas, zona embotelladora
Did he forget to say that low speed compression damping helps against the fork diving under braking or did I just not hear it?
Specific, yes he forgot. But no he doesn’t because he mention that LSC helps you to setup ‘anti diving’.