*Here is are somewater cooling tips for you Lee;* First, never let a pump run without water, water lubricates the pump & without it the pump will instantly be damaged. Second, the soft tubing will pop off without clamps, just a matter of time, will need soft tubing clamps, the kind from a Automotive shop should be good enough. Third, it will most likely take hours to saturate that set up with heat to be able to compare raspberry pies.. but it might just run a degree or two above ambien forever, so no need too. Fouth, hats off to the maker of that setup for such a low price, but it is a mixed metal setup with the copper heatsink & the aluminum radiator, if anyone wanted to use this for month or years, I'd replace the aluminum radiator with a copper radiator.
The spring kind are called bejesus clamps because it takes the will of God to get em on and if the pliers slip and it smacks your finger...it hurts like bejesus ...the screw type are "hose clamps" :D
I think the various thicknesses of thermal pads are to allow for the different heights of the chips on the Pi. The official cooler comes with different thickness pads for this very reason. The paste you applied to the chips other than the soc won't be effective, and will likely make a mess over time. I'd suggest paste for the soc, and pads for the other chips for best results. Be interesting to see if that level of cooling is enough to overclock even more...
Anything beyond the ICE tower that is at the beginning of the video already showed that it doesn’t provide any gains in terms of Over Clocking. The SOC can’t simply be overclocked anymore like to saturate the ICE tower
@@jjptech some things, once thought, must be said, therefore: ONE DOES NOT SIMPLY overclock a pi5 beyond 3ghz Ps: i bet you it *can* go beyond 3ghz, but by going beyond the silly and into the patently ludicrous. Ambient or subambient core temperatures.
@@johnbeer4963 So you will purchase a nitrogen tank with a criogenic pump to cool down a raspi enough to push it to 3.2 ghz. Or you believe that the Overclock is linearly proportional to the Kelvin scale?
@@jjptech Naw. The beauty of these lower power devices like ARM is they make TECs viable at least for a play around just to see what can be done... and if you've got watercooling hw around you can cascade them.
This is super fun. 🙂 My 4 GB Raspberry PI 5 will only do 2.9 Ghz on the CPU and 900 Mhz on the video. If I go to 3 Ghz CPU or 1 Ghz GPU, it boots but immediately hard freezes. I'm using the official active cooler.
Thanks Lee for the demonstration of this cooler. It looks it would be the solution for my heat problems in Tucson ,Arizona in the summer. I also thought of an another application of this cooler, run piping through my Chase Lounge while relaxing outdoors…😂! Have a great day!
The only thing you have to worry about is unlike metals, i.e., brass and aluminum. If you do, it will cause galvanic corrosion. Also never run the pump dry. Water is the lubricant for the ceramic bearing.
Amusingly overkill for a single Pi, but I think the real utility here is for Pi clusters (as you suggested at the end). A single 120mm rad should be able to keep about 15 RPis comfortably cool even with all running at full tilt. The question then is whether the pump has enough power to push through that many CPU blocks.
I'm pretty the pump will be just fine :) Judging only based on the looks of the components (sadly seeedstudio doesn't provide any specifics of used components) - it looks as standard DDC pump (or some clone perhaps) and the CPU block also looks as having barely any fins (if even any). So restrictivity of that block is very low.
I would recommend buying some brass or copper plate stock from lowes and cut it down to the size of the cpu, then put on top of the chips, heat sink compound on top as well...and sandwich between the board and the heatsink so if you don't have enough room it will give enough space to not short out other components on the board... Interesting setup...never thought of watercooling and ARM device...only push out like 15 watts...
This is a pretty cool piece of kit for the Raspberry Pi 5. Don't know if I'd ever buy one even thou I do live in an area that gets into the 100f every summer. Also give your cat pets for me please. 🐈
It does seem overkill for even hotter climates, especially when you add the cost to a Pi 5 set-up, which makes it a very expensive proposition indeed for what the board is. It did look pretty though with the lights.
Nice overkill. I done a similar overkill and cooled my Pi 5 with a fan for rooms. Wing diameter 35 cm. Needs 65 W power. It's a bit loud and windy, but it cools my Pi well. My room temperature was 21°C and with the fan in idle the Pi was 27°C. Under very heavy full load it was 56°C. Without using a heat sink. (Very heavy full load = 10,7W power of the Pi by using FET on all cores. Sysbench and stress-ng use much less power. Only around 7 to 8W. You can see that in several videos on my channel.
You didnt touch on it in the video, but i'd love to know if you could still attach a PCI ribbon cable with this thing on. Obviously mounting an NVME underneath isnt gonna happen with a heat spreader underneath, but perhaps keeping a PCI board off to the side or as a hat would be a good solution? Provided it remains accessible.
I can’t get my pi 5 8gb to overclock to 3ghz . My set up is 2.9ghz / 950mhz / voltage 6/ force 1 . This set up is fast using you KDE plasma . Batocera is set on the same . Amazing video . Keep up with the good work
This looks like an excellent entry level project to learn how to bend acrylic rods instead of using the flexible hosing. Do you know if rigid acrylic water cooling pipes for pcs could be used in this application? I assume you would have to change the connections at a minimum
@leepspvideo It sounded like you said your son had built his own water cooling system although I'm not sure if that included the custom bending of acrylic pipes. It might make a neat video if he was able to help you and you could custom bend those pipes to put them in some kind of aftermarket case or some other custom build.
If you pour from the side rather from the end you don't get the glugging on those 5 litres bottles. Useful to know when topping up your oil in the car too.
"Engineering" defines a process whereby someone creates a solution to a problem in the real world that others would definitely wish to use as their own solution. I have invented a new word, "geerling" to define a process like water cooling a Raspberry Pi or connecting 100+ hard drives to a Raspberry Pi where everyone goes "okay, very clever, but why would anyone do this in the real world anyway? And how does this help me teach 30 kids in a classroom with a Pi each the basics of programming?" Very nice and all that but if I need a 3 GHz CPU I can pick up a 3rd or 4th generation Core i5 or i7 in a used SFF PC for the same (or less price) than a Pi 5 and know I'm operating it within its specified parameters, confident that it probably won't die from over-exertion at any moment.
Speaking of overkill... I overclocked my pi 5 cpu to 3.0 GHz and graphics to 900 MHz using the factory integrated cooler and never exceed 80° C in a 23° C room with stress-ng hammering all CPU and GPU cores. Maybe I just got lucky with the silicon lottery. I do have a pi 5 ice cooler but so far I haven’t even bothered to set it up.
@@leepspvideo Very true, but this all depends on use case. I use my pi as a homelab / docker server where it rarely exceeds 25% load and even overclocked my temps are usually in the 40s. While you’re absolutely right that 80 is too high long-term, so is 100% load. Still, I really like the way, the water cooling looks - great work!
@@marklewus5468 The pi documentation said that below 80°C is fine. They even tested with 120°C, but in that case it aged too fast. (sadly they didn't wrote an exact time how long it was running with that temperature. They only wrote that it was running fine.)
stress-ng without any parameter doesn't produce much heat. Only 8.6W. There are other tools that produce much more heat. My max is 11W so far. Here in the comment an other guy wrote he used a tool that needed 12W. Sadly he didn't wrote the name of his tool.
Water cooling is only good for short runs (aka until it reaches saturation) but if you have to do long runs you still need to make sure that the rad can move the heat it is the one reason i hate water cooling videos as they never run to heat saturation to see how long it takes and if it will fail after saturation because there is not enuf radiator cooling -if the radiator is not enuf after heat saturation you will get thermal runaway and that means the death of hardware just so you know thermal runaway is why servers are rarely built with water cooling, as air cooling will will hit heat saturation faster and it is easier to monitor for that and make adjustment in code or the bios to account for it i am not saying that it cant be done for water cooling but it takes alot of time to to do the calculations and verification's, i am talking days/weeks with the device running at full power using every part of if the whole time
It’s not a normal laptop This Laptop with no OS works with everything! Dopesplay DR158W ruclips.net/video/jfnwSbSWLHU/видео.html This works with most laptops Use your Laptop as a Monitor. HDMI input. Xbox series S/X through Windows or Mac. £9 Capture device ruclips.net/video/sMmBOCqHs48/видео.html
hey, I'm currently on a retro handheld project with the raspberry pi 4. I wanted to try out gamecube and wii emulation, but therefore I must switch to a 64 bit system because of the dolphin emulator. I'm using retropie, butcan anyone suggest a good alternative? Also does anyone have the monkajaro 64 bit retropie image and maybe could send it to me?
@@leepspvideo Thank you, but I really would like to get gc and wii on retropie. Is there any way to get a 64 bit retropie image without installing it on a 64 bit raspberry pi os? Or can you install retropie on 64 bit raspberry pi os lite and run a script that autostarts retropie? If this works it would be a nice video idea..
it's really cool but (not to be an a-hole but) but it's really silly. Probably consumes close to 50% of the power of the Pi5 at stock. The aircooled temps were fine. For the cost of this plus a pi5 you could have got an Intel N100 fanless mini PC that would pwn a Pi5 in every measurable or definable meaningful way. In short, mixed feelings. Delightful, yet silly.
Why? My RPi5 already overclocks to 2.8Ghz with a $5 heatsink/fan. Apart from being able to go around and say 'I did it', it seems to serve no practical purpose as there are virtually 100's of other single board computers that will outperform it. And if one is so into overclocking then overclock desktop PCs instead as it is more fun and actually can give significant practical benefits. Would seem better to spend the money elsewhere to enhance the Pi. Before getting my Raspberry Pi 5, I seriously considered the much faster and better spec Orange Pi 5 Plus. Considering all the logical and rational reasons, the final decision was based not on performance but useability and software availability, etc. I have my home-grow water-cooled over-clocked gaming PC to satisfy that need.
hmm... In my opinion much too much thermal paste. Even on large x86 cpus most guys recommend to use less thermal paste. The thermal paste should only fill the gaps between cooler and cpu. it shouldn't be a layer between cpu and cool, since thermal paste is in most cases of course better then air, but poorer then the cooler (especially if you have a copper cooler)
That water cooler is eye candy! A radiator of that size can easily dissipate perhaps 100 W. At max load the pi 5 dissipates ~12 W, call it 15-18 W overclocked. So yeah, utter overkill, but there are certain builds where the looks alone might be worth it! Not sure I would use distilled water as it can be very corrosive. @emuclone154 suggestion of 50/50 Prestone s better.
*Here is are somewater cooling tips for you Lee;*
First, never let a pump run without water, water lubricates the pump & without it the pump will instantly be damaged.
Second, the soft tubing will pop off without clamps, just a matter of time, will need soft tubing clamps, the kind from a Automotive shop should be good enough.
Third, it will most likely take hours to saturate that set up with heat to be able to compare raspberry pies.. but it might just run a degree or two above ambien forever, so no need too.
Fouth, hats off to the maker of that setup for such a low price, but it is a mixed metal setup with the copper heatsink & the aluminum radiator, if anyone wanted to use this for month or years, I'd replace the aluminum radiator with a copper radiator.
The spring kind are called bejesus clamps because it takes the will of God to get em on and if the pliers slip and it smacks your finger...it hurts like bejesus ...the screw type are "hose clamps" :D
I think the various thicknesses of thermal pads are to allow for the different heights of the chips on the Pi. The official cooler comes with different thickness pads for this very reason. The paste you applied to the chips other than the soc won't be effective, and will likely make a mess over time. I'd suggest paste for the soc, and pads for the other chips for best results. Be interesting to see if that level of cooling is enough to overclock even more...
Anything beyond the ICE tower that is at the beginning of the video already showed that it doesn’t provide any gains in terms of Over Clocking. The SOC can’t simply be overclocked anymore like to saturate the ICE tower
@@jjptech some things, once thought, must be said, therefore: ONE DOES NOT SIMPLY overclock a pi5 beyond 3ghz
Ps: i bet you it *can* go beyond 3ghz, but by going beyond the silly and into the patently ludicrous. Ambient or subambient core temperatures.
@@johnbeer4963 So you will purchase a nitrogen tank with a criogenic pump to cool down a raspi enough to push it to 3.2 ghz. Or you believe that the Overclock is linearly proportional to the Kelvin scale?
@@jjptech Naw. The beauty of these lower power devices like ARM is they make TECs viable at least for a play around just to see what can be done... and if you've got watercooling hw around you can cascade them.
This is super fun. 🙂
My 4 GB Raspberry PI 5 will only do 2.9 Ghz on the CPU and 900 Mhz on the video. If I go to 3 Ghz CPU or 1 Ghz GPU, it boots but immediately hard freezes. I'm using the official active cooler.
Try more voltage
Still a decent Overclock 👍🏼
Sometimes the Question isn´t if i need it, but if i want it 🥶
Thanks Lee for the demonstration of this cooler. It looks it would be the solution for my heat problems in Tucson ,Arizona in the summer.
I also thought of an another application of this cooler, run piping through my Chase Lounge while relaxing outdoors…😂!
Have a great day!
For those wondering the best performing coolant is prestone antifreeze/coolant universal 50/50.
What year make and model for that vehicle?
No reason to use antifreeze
The only thing you have to worry about is unlike metals, i.e., brass and aluminum. If you do, it will cause galvanic corrosion. Also never run the pump dry. Water is the lubricant for the ceramic bearing.
LOL, I hope you are just trolling. Cuz using such collant would kill the pump slowly. This is not a car pump bruh 😂
@WaterCoolFool when it's sub 0 outside I like to go out and OC
Amusingly overkill for a single Pi, but I think the real utility here is for Pi clusters (as you suggested at the end). A single 120mm rad should be able to keep about 15 RPis comfortably cool even with all running at full tilt. The question then is whether the pump has enough power to push through that many CPU blocks.
I'm pretty the pump will be just fine :) Judging only based on the looks of the components (sadly seeedstudio doesn't provide any specifics of used components) - it looks as standard DDC pump (or some clone perhaps) and the CPU block also looks as having barely any fins (if even any). So restrictivity of that block is very low.
OMG how much I like it. It is the best cooler I have ever seen...
I would recommend buying some brass or copper plate stock from lowes and cut it down to the size of the cpu, then put on top of the chips, heat sink compound on top as well...and sandwich between the board and the heatsink so if you don't have enough room it will give enough space to not short out other components on the board...
Interesting setup...never thought of watercooling and ARM device...only push out like 15 watts...
This is a pretty cool piece of kit for the Raspberry Pi 5. Don't know if I'd ever buy one even thou I do live in an area that gets into the 100f every summer.
Also give your cat pets for me please. 🐈
It does seem overkill for even hotter climates, especially when you add the cost to a Pi 5 set-up, which makes it a very expensive proposition indeed for what the board is. It did look pretty though with the lights.
Looks awesome!
Very interesting test. Would have been good to put it through tests which showed the performance difference, not just the degree of cooling.
Another interesting video Lee you should try this with pre mixed Motorcycle coolant (not car) it should be even better.
this channel is up next i can tell just by the intro sound and consistency keep up the good work bro
Wotah cooling. V cool.
veg.oil as coolant also works..and no algees...as bit higher temps...
Great video thanks, waiting future videos with some more agresive overclock tests with it .
I have tried my Pi higher at 3050 and 3100 with other cooling. It wasn’t too hot but did lock up
Nice overkill. I done a similar overkill and cooled my Pi 5 with a fan for rooms. Wing diameter 35 cm. Needs 65 W power. It's a bit loud and windy, but it cools my Pi well. My room temperature was 21°C and with the fan in idle the Pi was 27°C. Under very heavy full load it was 56°C. Without using a heat sink. (Very heavy full load = 10,7W power of the Pi by using FET on all cores. Sysbench and stress-ng use much less power. Only around 7 to 8W. You can see that in several videos on my channel.
You didnt touch on it in the video, but i'd love to know if you could still attach a PCI ribbon cable with this thing on. Obviously mounting an NVME underneath isnt gonna happen with a heat spreader underneath, but perhaps keeping a PCI board off to the side or as a hat would be a good solution? Provided it remains accessible.
I have a Geekworm nvme that would fit as it just uses the 4 screws. Without the heat spreader
Very cool ! hehe - may have to wait a while for stock to become available.
I feel this journey can only end with liquid nitrogen. You have led us most of the way. But not all of the way.
One of my raspberry pi's has frozen up on me a few times. Overclocked and factory default settings with the active cooler.
I can’t get my pi 5 8gb to overclock to 3ghz . My set up is 2.9ghz / 950mhz / voltage 6/ force 1 . This set up is fast using you KDE plasma . Batocera is set on the same . Amazing video . Keep up with the good work
Bravo! Thank you for the video.
Finally! That teaser was too much 😆
Agreed
Love it!
This looks like an excellent entry level project to learn how to bend acrylic rods instead of using the flexible hosing. Do you know if rigid acrylic water cooling pipes for pcs could be used in this application? I assume you would have to change the connections at a minimum
I don’t have any experience in liquid cooling
@leepspvideo It sounded like you said your son had built his own water cooling system although I'm not sure if that included the custom bending of acrylic pipes. It might make a neat video if he was able to help you and you could custom bend those pipes to put them in some kind of aftermarket case or some other custom build.
If you pour from the side rather from the end you don't get the glugging on those 5 litres bottles. Useful to know when topping up your oil in the car too.
ROFL!! Love it!
All that's missing is some fish to make a screensaver and a spout for tea. Thanks.
No table of bench mark comparisons with the temps and CPU overclocking?!?!?
Nope
🙋
I have an N100 sbc I wouldn’t mind liquid cooling.
I've seen a few N100 machines on the market. How are you liking yours?
When your cooling solution is 1000x bigger than the computer.
It's a computerized watercooler.
Love it but need to make it so it can cool multiple pi's
They sell extras
amzn.to/4bkIhuO
is that the new Raspberry Pi-Cat at 1:50 ?
I hear they have some very fast cores but with some really lazy processors too. not much ram though. ha ha
Have you tried pushing it until it is power limited? Maybe next is liquid nitrogen overclocking :D
Others have said the firmware doesn't allow overclocking above 3Ghz.
@@Toimu13 sad
how do the temps compare to a big copper heatsink and 120/140mm fan?
You need a funnel to pour into the other funnel
Fancy.
I'm thinking this needs to be part of a cyberdeck build.
What a overkill cooling, but I like it.
Can you push the clock more, or is 3.1Ghz the max possible?
I have tested before. Beyond 3050 my system would lock up. I may revisit playing around with power more
Its not dry ice on top a tower cooler but nice!
next topic "how to program cat" 1:48 :D nice video btw :)
Do you sell or have available the different OS configuration flashes ? I barely know what I'm doing with that
This is the os I use. Links in the description
My Linux setup Raspberry Pi 5 Part 2. KDE Plasma
ruclips.net/video/ODNF-J_CSp4/видео.html
What about a higher overclock?
Seems to lock up. I may try some power settings
"Engineering" defines a process whereby someone creates a solution to a problem in the real world that others would definitely wish to use as their own solution.
I have invented a new word, "geerling" to define a process like water cooling a Raspberry Pi or connecting 100+ hard drives to a Raspberry Pi where everyone goes "okay, very clever, but why would anyone do this in the real world anyway? And how does this help me teach 30 kids in a classroom with a Pi each the basics of programming?"
Very nice and all that but if I need a 3 GHz CPU I can pick up a 3rd or 4th generation Core i5 or i7 in a used SFF PC for the same (or less price) than a Pi 5 and know I'm operating it within its specified parameters, confident that it probably won't die from over-exertion at any moment.
Speaking of overkill... I overclocked my pi 5 cpu to 3.0 GHz and graphics to 900 MHz using the factory integrated cooler and never exceed 80° C in a 23° C room with stress-ng hammering all CPU and GPU cores. Maybe I just got lucky with the silicon lottery. I do have a pi 5 ice cooler but so far I haven’t even bothered to set it up.
80 is very different to 36. Also the fan would have ramped up a lot at 80
The factory cooler is great and tiny. 👍🏼
@@leepspvideo Very true, but this all depends on use case. I use my pi as a homelab / docker server where it rarely exceeds 25% load and even overclocked my temps are usually in the 40s. While you’re absolutely right that 80 is too high long-term, so is 100% load. Still, I really like the way, the water cooling looks - great work!
@@marklewus5468 The pi documentation said that below 80°C is fine. They even tested with 120°C, but in that case it aged too fast. (sadly they didn't wrote an exact time how long it was running with that temperature. They only wrote that it was running fine.)
stress-ng without any parameter doesn't produce much heat. Only 8.6W. There are other tools that produce much more heat. My max is 11W so far. Here in the comment an other guy wrote he used a tool that needed 12W. Sadly he didn't wrote the name of his tool.
What dock is that
This Laptop with no OS works with everything! Dopesplay DR158W
ruclips.net/video/jfnwSbSWLHU/видео.html
Water cooling is only good for short runs (aka until it reaches saturation) but if you have to do long runs you still need to make sure that the rad can move the heat
it is the one reason i hate water cooling videos as they never run to heat saturation to see how long it takes and if it will fail after saturation because there is not enuf radiator cooling
-if the radiator is not enuf after heat saturation you will get thermal runaway and that means the death of hardware
just so you know thermal runaway is why servers are rarely built with water cooling, as air cooling will will hit heat saturation faster and it is easier to monitor for that and make adjustment in code or the bios to account for it
i am not saying that it cant be done for water cooling but it takes alot of time to to do the calculations and verification's, i am talking days/weeks with the device running at full power using every part of if the whole time
what is the cat name🤩
Leo
his face looks like despise you, it just a pie what a fuss
When you're cooling solution uses more power than the RPi5🤣
what laptop is that? o.O
It’s not a normal laptop
This Laptop with no OS works with everything! Dopesplay DR158W
ruclips.net/video/jfnwSbSWLHU/видео.html
This works with most laptops
Use your Laptop as a Monitor. HDMI input. Xbox series S/X through Windows or Mac. £9 Capture device
ruclips.net/video/sMmBOCqHs48/видео.html
hey, I'm currently on a retro handheld project with the raspberry pi 4. I wanted to try out gamecube and wii emulation, but therefore I must switch to a 64 bit system because of the dolphin emulator. I'm using retropie, butcan anyone suggest a good alternative? Also does anyone have the monkajaro 64 bit retropie image and maybe could send it to me?
Best Nintendo GameCube emulation so far! Raspberry Pi 4 2325MHz Overclock.
ruclips.net/video/9FaJfqAWOeM/видео.html
@@leepspvideo Thank you, but I really would like to get gc and wii on retropie. Is there any way to get a 64 bit retropie image without installing it on a 64 bit raspberry pi os? Or can you install retropie on 64 bit raspberry pi os lite and run a script that autostarts retropie? If this works it would be a nice video idea..
it's really cool but (not to be an a-hole but) but it's really silly. Probably consumes close to 50% of the power of the Pi5 at stock. The aircooled temps were fine. For the cost of this plus a pi5 you could have got an Intel N100 fanless mini PC that would pwn a Pi5 in every measurable or definable meaningful way. In short, mixed feelings. Delightful, yet silly.
PS: combine this with a TEC for some low temp playing and it gets more delightful AND more silly.
Just 2 drops of red food coloring into the reservoir.
Why? My RPi5 already overclocks to 2.8Ghz with a $5 heatsink/fan.
Apart from being able to go around and say 'I did it', it seems to serve no practical purpose as there are virtually 100's of other single board computers that will outperform it. And if one is so into overclocking then overclock desktop PCs instead as it is more fun and actually can give significant practical benefits. Would seem better to spend the money elsewhere to enhance the Pi.
Before getting my Raspberry Pi 5, I seriously considered the much faster and better spec Orange Pi 5 Plus. Considering all the logical and rational reasons, the final decision was based not on performance but useability and software availability, etc. I have my home-grow water-cooled over-clocked gaming PC to satisfy that need.
Holy way too much thermal paste, Batman!
Very cool video though.
That's absurd. Max 36 degC... I mean, it's so tiny. Did you ever go back and overclock the RPi5?
I plan to @@briandowdell358
it made me remember a guy using watercooling on a i3 or a celeron, makes no sense whatsoever
It defeats the whole point of using a raspberry pi 😁
Buy a Raspberry Pi.
Then pay twice as much again for a cooler.
Yeah that makes sense.
hmm... In my opinion much too much thermal paste. Even on large x86 cpus most guys recommend to use less thermal paste. The thermal paste should only fill the gaps between cooler and cpu. it shouldn't be a layer between cpu and cool, since thermal paste is in most cases of course better then air, but poorer then the cooler (especially if you have a copper cooler)
At this point, you just buy a normal mini pc. This is getting ridiculous
Ridiculous is exactly why it's fun to do.
Too much thermal paste
It's a non issue
The temps say otherwise.
That water cooler is eye candy! A radiator of that size can easily dissipate perhaps 100 W. At max load the pi 5 dissipates ~12 W, call it 15-18 W overclocked. So yeah, utter overkill, but there are certain builds where the looks alone might be worth it! Not sure I would use distilled water as it can be very corrosive. @emuclone154 suggestion of 50/50 Prestone s better.
Hi. I am interested in how you got 12W. My max was 11W so far. What software did you use to get 12W?