also! please check out this podcast me and some friends are doing! ruclips.net/video/wXGEcDVBDK4/видео.htmlsi=dbigx4VhE0eKGzA_ Edit: to the person spamming all the comments and my other videos comments- congrats on being the 2nd person ever to be banned from my channel for a reason other than saying slurs! for context there was a person replying to like half of the comments on this video saying i hate or harrass nb people, which has never been true. (my old @ was kanincotton
i dunno, all im seeing is the Hear: "let's see different people's different perspectives (built by different life experiences) on this topic with no solid consensus just yet" into Conclusion: "Error 404 nonbinary no existo" combo
We really need a better language to describe and differentiate these different attitudes and schools of thought. From the jump, at least, I do appreciate the clear disavowal of the pick-me's who say "Oooh I'm just a mentally-ill man! Feel free to throw a tomato at me if you want! Can I come to your party yet?" For me, it's fairly obvious that gender identity is fundamentally rooted in biology and then further shaped by one's social experiences, language, and self-perception. The two most critical ideas for me are that a) people have a fundamental human right to self-expression, self-realization, and self-actualization, provided they don't infringe upon others' rights to the same, and b) both practically and ethically, people cannot and should not be bullied, brainwashed, pestered, lectured, concern-trolled, or persuaded into changing their fundamental core sexual or gender identity---at most, their behavior, their language, and their ability to imagine certain possibilities can be constrained or focused. There are likely a number of potential reasons people might identify as or feel non-binary, and I'd say that's only the business of scientists, philosophers, those individuals themselves, and those individuals' therapists. My personal hypothesis is that the average human being probably has a greater capacity for gender and sexual fluidity than we've historically recognized, and it's not unreasonable to assume that perhaps nonbinary people just happen to be tethered to a looser, longer biological and/or psychological "leash" in that regard compared to the average cis or trans person whose identity is more binary. My ultimate goal is to continue to dismantle the oppressive and intrusive walls and boxes that prevent people from expressing and knowing themselves as fully as they could otherwise, and believe that we'll actually learn more about how identity itself works as we move closer to that utopian society. Now, personally, I'd prefer to live in a world where most people identify as sexually--fluid and use non-binary pronouns, but that's my personal pipe dream.
Honestly I completely agree, only thing I disagree on is the idea that non-binary individuals have a looser metaphorical leash on identity. Their identity is as rock solid as anyone else's, and it's wired the same way as cis-gender folks' brains are, just in a different pattern. I do think perhaps they have an easier time finding out and coming to terms with being enby, and so maybe it might seem like it's looser, but I disagree on the notion they'd be more fluid in their gender identity, I just think it's easier to realize and express. That, and I completely agree that expressing yourself in whatever damn way you please is a human right, no one can control what you do with your body, that's a line we do not cross, period. The only place where the "your right to punch ends at the tip of my nose" argument, while solid, is a little flimsy as to what we consider the metaphorical tip of the nose to be. Whether that be using certain bathrooms, or playing in sports, those are questions best left to be answered by real professionals and not politicians or the general public in my opinion.
@@That_Damn_Plaid_Ram , that's perfect sensible! Just to clarify, my leash metapohor wasn't meant to suggest that non-binary people are less confident or strong in how they feel (far from it!) but just that most human beings reportedly feel a moderate-to-strong attachment to either the Green Team or the Red Team, and non-binary people obviously break from that pattern. I believe our first aim as a society should be to include and integrate everyone who's willing to play ball and coexist with others peaceably in a free, open, tolerant society, and if we have to offer accommodations or do some tweaks to make the playing field "fair" (whatever that might mean) we can cross those bridges when we get to them. I agree that we need to look to the data when making trickier or more complicated decisions, and not just go based on our stereotypes or unexamined gut feelings. Frankly, the screaming about bathrooms and competitive sports is largely just an intentional bad-faith distraction being artificially generated by a bunch of people and special interest groups that not only just hate trans people, but are actively seeking to weaponize transphobia to roll back society more generally. Such people should always be asked to articulate the specific harms and pushed to suggest a solution for those harms that does not entail the exclusion, dehumanization, subjugation, or otherization of some group, and anyone who can't meet those terms should be dismissed back to the kiddie table.
@@dinosaysrawr I honestly could not have said that any better, some things have to change if we want to continue living peacefully here. Unfortunately, America as a whole does not share the sentiment, and an entire half of the ruling class uses them as political pawns in an issue that shouldn't be political for votes and pandering. Thankfully I won't be here much longer lol My sibling is trans and my ENTIRE damn family including myself is some fabulous flavor of fruity and America isn't.. exactly the best place for that kind of family, right now-
As a nonbinary person I absolutely experience gender dysphoria. I have ALWAYS. felt different growing up. I was never my AGAB. As soon as I could speak coherently I wanted to go by a different name and pronouns and I had no idea what those terms even were. I tried this again later a few times (family was supportive) and it never stuck until I discovered nonbinary. I had never felt so seen and comfortable with myself until that point. My dad always suspected I might be intersex because of the way I was growing up and I might not be physically that I know of, but I guess you could say that mentally I always was in a way. I'm not a fan of people who are clearly not nonbinary and are identifying as such for political or trivial reasons. I personally believe in order to be trans or nonbinary you need to have gender dysphoria otherwise it's something else like gender non-conforming, gender apathetic, genderfluid etc etc. I'm a bit of a stickler for labels and definitions so naturally I'm also not a fan of "nonbinary lesbians" as the definition of lesbian was "A woman who likes other women." I believe it's been adjusted now to throw in nonbinary people, but to me it feels like an afterthought. As someone who has thought they were a demi-boy for the longest time I don't mind the new gay flag (green and blue) and somewhat identify with it as it feels less harsh compared to the rainbow flag both visually and in my experiences. I also like the terms "uranic, platonic, neptunic / trixic, toric, enbian" etc. Those are nonbinary specific sexualities that for me anyway make me feel seen and included. I'm honestly surprised the skeptic and non-supportive people came in calmly and maturely to discuss their opinions instead of being incredibly hateful and scrutinizing. I also believe it's good to hear other points of view and I'm not a fan of people who instantly scream "You're enby/transphobic if you dont agree with my certain viewpoints!!!1!1!1" I used to identify as Agender as I wanted to present neutrally because that's how I felt. I was lowkey bullied out of it and eventually came to nonbinary because I didn't like people telling me "You know you're not an alien, right?" & "Look.. I support you, but I don't believe you're an alien/you exist" (You dont support me if you're going to say those things to my face?? also I literally never said I was an alien which arse cheek are you pulling that crap out of??) Anyway whoops long comment but thank you for making this video Kanin. It helped put into words my thoughts and beliefs I could never find words to speak. I feel unrealistically validated by some trans dude online letting it be known he supports nonbinary people and I just want to say thank you for that. It means more than it should to me. Where I live I'm not seen or accepted a lot, so validation and acceptance means a lot to me.
honestly as a nonbinary person I give people the respect they deserve with this topic, if someone says "I don't believe its real and this is why" ok cool, lets talk about that! but if they give the jeffree star approach and say "I think people were just bored during quarantine and its all just for attention" and they cant explain further, I walk the other way. I do think even if im not trans med, more people would be if they knew hating nonbinary people isnt a necessary stance to take when being trans med. it is important though we start recognizing gender dysphoria as something every trans person inherently has, nonbinary or binary trans because it came to my surprise that people who arent in lgbtq spaces whether or not they support trans people dont know its more then just "im going to start becoming a different gender now" and not that its a life long mental health issue that transitioning can help but not "fix".
@@ssnowstarr4985 sorry not trying to be hostile just genuinely curious here, I know socially like being called by the wrong pronouns and being referred to as your deadname can cause dysphoria not just your physical body parts but all I said was that every trans person has dysphoria to some capacity? I think im confused about what you're saying 🥲
I've heard people say that gender dysphoria is required to be trans, but I personally feel it's the other way around. Many trans people experience dysphoria BECAUSE they're trans. BECAUSE their gender and sex don't match, sometimes that can CAUSE feelings of discomfort and distress. Why is having a mental disorder required to exist as your identity? Wouldn't it make more sense that some people develop this disorder because of their identity instead? I'd love to learn more about the transmed mindset around to being trans/genderqueer and how it's related to gender dysphoria and passing (such as presenting masc if you're a trans man and vice versa), because I'm a bit confused on how y'all view the relationship between them :)
the best explanation that we have currently is through brain function and structure. theres been some very promising and interesting FMRI studies (all studies referenced are under my "about me" link bc yt hates links). there are consistent sexually dimorphic areas in both brain structure and in functioning. trans people consistently show functioning of that of their gender they identify with, including in regions of the brain responsible for bodily perception. this is currently our best understanding of why people are trans, and directly correlates to bodily perception in brain function not matching the actual reality of our bodies: causing dysphoria. while these areas of the brain are decently well understood and i feel confident saying trans people have neurological and neurochemical differences from cis folks as well as our birth sex, it is a strongly supported though not fully proven hypothesis that these differences are the cause of gender dysphoria. point of mentioning that being is the identity and the dysphoria are directly interlinked, the cause for the identity is the cause for the dysphoria. they are inseparable parts of a whole. the identity is simply the social way in which we define it. the identity its self is a social construct, as humans created the words male female trans and cis, but the experience of being any of those things is not socially constructed and exists weather i say woman, female, kvinne, mujer, or something else. humans like to catagorize things into neat little boxes, but those things still exist regardless of the boxes we create for them. an atom is still a real object no matter what we call it or what things we consider a part of that catagory, basically. on that note with gender, i dont see the identity as seperate from dysphoria in any way. dysphoria is the result in neurological differences which have been shown to develop in the womb (sources in about me link) and that development would occur weather or not we had an identity tied to it. essentially the identity dosent come first because the identity is a result of the dysphoria, its the label weve chosen go catagorize this experience through. as its become a more well known one, people have failed ro understand what it is and why it exists and choose to classify it at soley socially constructed and tried to divorce it from its actual source- the neurological differences and therefore dysphoria. i do think plenty of trans people may not realize theyre dysphoric until later in life, and i think a lot of misconceptions around what dysphoria is has caused some people to falsely claim they dont experience it. which also can fuel the idea that dysphoria can come later instead of being the causing factor. along side again the attempt to redefine the words into purely social and neglecting their tangible basis. TLDR: you will know youre trans because you experience dysphoria, weather or not people actually recognize their feelings as dysphoria. dysphoria comes from sexually dimorphic brain function in areas lf the brain responsible for body perception, and isnt so much a type of mental illness as it is a neurological condition.
@@godlesssnowshoe Ah, alright, thank you for the response! That's interesting to think about. I would like to point out though that your source link appears to not work, it says it's been deleted or something along those lines :)
oh damn lemme fix it gimme a sec 😭 shit lol edit: it was a google doc n i ran outa space on my gmail and i think i accidentally killed it 😭 gotta remake it, ill send another comment when its fixed i thought it was just a broken link 🥲
I’ve heard a lot of people in the Transmedical subreddit argue that there are only 2 sexes and so you can’t transition to a sex that doesn’t exist, which is weird because this isn’t about gametes but rather about characteristics which can overlap or be intermediate between differing sexed body maps. I’m an NB transmed so obviously I disagree with those people very strongly. I will say the folks on r/Transmedical seem by and large incredibly vitriolic and nasty about their anti-NB stance and regularly shame people as being freaks and fetishists if their dysphoria causes them to desire dual or intermediate genitalia, and yeah the vibe is just too cruel there and they complain about us constantly and assert that our dysphoria isn’t real, valid, or worthy of being called dysphoria at all.
as someone who is nonbinary, if someone identifies as nonbinary thats cool!! im not gonna ask them questions about it cus who cares if their attention seeking or lying or “arent actually nonbinary” for whatever reason. i dont care. i do think that there should be more research into nonbinary brains because i heard somewhere (cant remember the source) that nonbinary-ism is more common in autistic people because of a more complex view on gender than people who are not autistic. im not a transmed tho so i guess my opinion doesnt matter or something
where did anyone say ur opinion doesn't matter if ur not transmed? i said in this video i think discussing these things civilly is useful both within transmed spaces and outside of them. honestly i agree with everything you said here but i dont appreciate the kinda snarky assumption at the end there. /nm
Idk why this got recommended to me or wtf half these things mean but here we go lol From an outsiders perspective it just seems like people are trying to gatekeep lol, kinda reminds me of the saying "the more outwardly accepting a group is the more inwardly toxic it is". At the end of the day, just be true to yourself and don't let no goobers ESPECIALLY online goobers tell you what to do with yourself 😎
@@godlesssnowshoeit’s kinda like the guitarist community. If you go in wanting to learn, you’ll find a lot of support, but if you pretend like you know everything and you don’t even pick up a guitar, people might question ya a bit 😂 (This is probably a bad analogy, but I’m trying)
Gatekeeping is often necessary, especially with medical conditions. For example there are many people who pretend to have autism or claim that they're autistic without a any diagnosis which is harmful to autistic people because these people often spread misinformation about autism. It also spreads the idea that autism is a trend. As a result of lots of people IDing as non binary bc they're GNC and not trans means that there are lots of people who ID as non binary who spread misinformation as they don't have dysphoria. Trans meds don't want these people spreading misinformation.
As a nonbinary who is in their 40s and has felt this way since childhood I now proclaim myself a freaking fairy. Cus if I don't exist I might as well have magic too
Currently I'm an admin in a medium-large trans server on discord, and it's been really frustrating trying to bring up anything regarding transmeds (multiple members regularly say things like "Truscum are the fascists of the trans community"). It's so frustrating because I feel like the only way to find good scientific data is by listening to transmeds and going through their sources lol it just sucks the label has been so tarnished by people online strawmanning, when generally transmeds seem to be pretty accepting overall...? lol
I think the bad ones were what made people hate them. I remember falling following some pretty shitty ones that really started to mess with my mental health and alot I interacted with were just rude. It's only until I found this channel I started thinking oh there are some decent trans meds out there. It's definitely frustrating the few peices if crap ruined the term for everyone
@ssnowstarr4985 never done that lmao. said I was one bitter comment away from blocking you so congrats on being the literally second ever person to be blocked from my comments ig LOL
one of the reasons i've been very skeptical of transmeds is because of the ones against non-binary genders. i also found it kind of weird to treat being anti-non-binary as *just* another opinion. like yeah of course it's fine to not know everything about non-binary people but being "against" non-binary people just seems so weird and needlessly exclusionary.
Duuuuude I need the vid on kalvin I'm not even gonna hold you on that one bro, pleassssse lmao Kalvin low-key turned me sexist in highschool, he had me spouting shit about how the pay gap isn't real, I was turning into the worst kind of man basically. Cause I took kalvin as fact (I was like 13 don't bully me now lmao) and he was pretty against the concept of an other gender (which is what I actually am) I use to be a hardcore transmedicalist, but now I'm just a fella existing, still involved in trans issues but more middle ground? I don't speak loudly in the space as I look like a cis woman easily rn (living in the south atm, so being androgynous is kinda hard, small town & not trying to be a statistic yk?) but I still try to amplify my trans homies, and still yk am affected by trans issues lol. I now identify as basically nonbinary, but use a dif term cause I have a complete disconnect from my sex/body due to extensive childhood trauma. My genders always felt.. conflicted though. My body is more so just a tool now, and I struggle with identity cause I don't feel or not feel like a man or woman, lots of conflicting confusing emotions 😅 anyways sorry for the long yap, would just love to hear a trans man speak about garrah, I love hearing all perspectives and I've heard non trans-medicalist trans men talk about him, but not someone like you thus I'm very curious :3 I love hearing as many perspectives as I can, and typically I agree with you on most topics and even when I don't, you present your points in such respectable way that it doesn't take away from the value of your content. You're what more commentators should be tbh, keep bein great dude, imma pack another bowl and watch more of your vid/vids(in a binge mood and I think I missed a few uploads) 😎😎✌️
i really wanna make a video on it but im worried the nuance will make ppl think im defending him which is absolutely not how i feel abt him LOL- i rlly wanna make the video but incase i dont the like short answer to it ig is like, i think his content was overwhelmingly harmful to both the trans community as a whole, and honestly to transmed spaces as well. but i think we also need to be aware he was a child when making this content, a bully, but a child. obviously for the larger trans community i feel its obvious that it was harmful, he caused countless people to be harrassed, and spread a lot of ideas that even as a transmed i think were really just based on hate and judgement more than any grounded reasoning. i do think overall he was harmful to transmed communities as well though, admittedly not nearly as much as the wider trans community ofc, but he encouraged a lot of us to become really angry people and encouraged really immature ways of discussing things. i feel lije a lot of transmeds now, at least in the spaces i exist in, are for the most part pretty level headed and have some kind of solid basis for our beliefs, but he really did just encourage pretty much the opposite of that and that caused a really toxic culture. ALL THAT BEING SAID however, i feel like ig this is where im worried people will think im defending him, and i wanna make it clear thats not the case as a 16-17 yo should still know better than this, i just still think this is important to acknowledge- he was a child who had a platform grow pretty rapidly, and also did regular collabs with blair who was in her mid 20s at the time. (which is kinda sus on her part) that obviously does not make his actions excusable, especially since they followed some people such as Fern (Lars) into real life. but i think some people are unable to understand that hes grown as a person, because he was a 16/17yo with a massive platform getting attention from much bigger creators. hes active on twitter and used to have a tiktok where he was openly accepting of gnc trans folks and even wore a skirt, and has supported nb folks. that being said NO ONE is obligated to forgive him, like him, etc. i still personally am not a fan of him despite acknowledging hes grown a lot. but he was kind of a kid who was clearly insecure and was rewarded for taking that insecurity out on others through rapid attention, money, and attention from bigger adult creators. ig my point was all that is he did a LOT of harm but people look at him like hes a cartoon villain, and i really dont think he is- he was a teenage bully who grew a platform before being able to mature and change his behavior, and that bullying was rewarded instead?
I'm bi and the "it's a just stepping stone or coping mechanism" position is reminiscent of some biphobic rhetoric than bi people are actually just gay/lesbian but won't admit it or just straight but confused. Definitely curious on how the NB isn't real group thinks about bisexuality considering the similarity in the arguments.
also bi and yeah i agree tbh. while i think thats definitely the case for some people, actually including myself (i identified as agender for years) i think saying thats what NB is as a whole is pretty incorrect. lots of people cycle through different labels when exploring both sexuality and gender identity but that doesn't mean the labels someone previously used aren't real. they just didn't fit that person in the end. i am definitely not agender, and i would say it was a "stepping stone" for me, because i was honestly scared to admit being ftm to myself and wanted to almost "ease into it". but that being said one of my close friends is agender and has has nullo bottom surgery and is like, definitely agender lol. theyre not a confused or in denial trans woman. their experience actually went to opposite way of mine that they identified as MTF before agender, and that doesn't make trans women not a thing just because that wasnt what fit them best either 🤷♂️
@godlesssnowshoe oh BTW I found an article in the Journal of 53xual Medicine that's might be of interest since it discussed nonbinary vs trans people's desires for gender affirming care and transition motives. It's called "Gender Affirming Medical Treatment Desire and Treatment Motives in Binary and Non-Binary Transgender Individuals." Admittedly the journal's SJR is lower than desired (.83), but flawed evidence is better than no evidence, plus it might be a jumping off point for more sources into the topic. Sorry if you already saw this comment, I think it got automatically removed for including a link.
Found an interesting Reddit entry years ago about this I’ll paste it here: In a literal sense, the rhetoric is wrong because dysphoria isn't the prerequisite of being trans, just a common result of it. The cause of being transgender is known as gender incongruence, which is when a person identifies as and/or feels more comfortable and authentic as a gender that doesn't match their assigned one. Gender incongruence can manifest in a manner of different ways, but they can all be grouped up into two vague categories: euphoria and dysphoria. Gender euphoria is a feeling of happiness when you present in a way that validates your gender. That can include shaving, tucking/binding, wearing gender affirming clothing, et cetera. The bottom line, though, is that it's a distinctly positive feeling. Gender dysphoria, therefore, is the feeling of distress that a trans person gets due to that incongruence. Common forms include bottom (genital) dysphoria, top (chest) dysphoria, and voice dysphoria. Social and mental dysphoria exist as well, of course, but body dysphoria is easier to provide examples of. The idea is, though, that dysphoria is the distinctly negative feeling caused by gender incongruence. Truscum believe that incongruence always results in dysphoria, and they posit that euphoria is inextricably tied to dysphoria-rather than being a separate feeling of happiness, they say that it's caused by relief from dysphoria. As such, they believe that every trans person must experience dysphoria to really be trans, and if they don't they aren't really transgender. They call these people "tucutes". The issue with this line of thinking is that it tries to tightly define a deeply personal experience. Gender euphoria and gender dysphoria both originate from the feeling that you would be more comfortable in a different gender. How that manifests is different for every trans person. In my case, l have bad social dysphoria-| really want to be perceived as a woman by society. But I lack, for instance, voice dysphoria. I don't hate my voice for being too masculine, and I actually sing. Just because I don't have voice dysphoria doesn't make me not trans though, I have other forms of dysphoria. But another trans person might have no social dysphoria and very bad voice dysphoria. That's because incongruence manifests differently for everybody who has it. That's why truscum ideology is harmful. It argues that a trans person needs to experience their incongruence in a certain way (some argue a certain amount of dysphoria, some argue certain forms of dysphoria, some argue any form of dysphoria at all) to be worthy of transitioning. When in reality, if a person wants to transition for any reason, they should be allowed to. If it would make them happier, it should be an option open to them. For an analogy to really hammer my point home, imagine if there were effeminate gay men (participate in gay culture, watch/do drag, et cetera) who argue that more masculine gay men weren't really gay because they aren't effeminate enough. It's true that many gay men are more effeminate than straight men. Most, actually, I would say. But to try and gatekeep gayness with effeminacy is just not right. It's the same idea with truscum.
very disappointed i read through all that for the person to give an accurate descriptor of transmedicalism just for everything following it to be presumptive. transmedicalism = you need dysphoria to be trans. not you need this much or this specific type, it mean you need dysphoria. there are transmeds who will say any range of "yep as long as u got it" to very specific things, and honestly i feel ad though i fall into a middle range of if you do not care at all about being precived as a different gender (passing) thats not being trans. also, gender euphoria is the opposite side of the coin to dysphoria. its the alleviation of dysphoria. if you care about gender euphoria enough to deal with the consequences of being trans in the world we exist in, and/or undergo medical procedures, i 100% believe u experience dysphoria. but unfortunately inclus tend to boil down dysphoria into self hatred, hating your body, or hating parts of yourself. that is absolutely not the only way dysphoria is experienced and it causes people to not understand theyre dysphoric (i did a video on this and got a plethora of comment basically going "oh shit i do actually have dysphoria ig") and regarding the voice example, while i dont think voice dysphoria is some magical qualifier of being trans and im sure theres ppl without it, you can like one aspect about something and dislike others. i actually liked my voice pre T in the sense that my boyfriend at the time was a theatre kid and basically gave me voice lessons and i loved how i sang, but it also made me uncomfortable and on edge that in lther contexts id be seen as male till i opened my mouth. its not all hate or all love all the time, you can have mixxed feelings kf things outside those two emotions. i think in an ideal world anyone should be able to transition weather theyre transsexual or not, im all for bpdy modification, its your body do what ever you want. but we dont live in an ideal world, we live in a world with months to years long wait lists for consultations let alone surgeries, where these medications and surgeries are veiwed as cosmetic by many insurance providers contrary to evidence. for no other medication or procedure would we say people who just want something, even if genuinely would make them happy, should be placed as equal priority to those with a medical need for it. especially not when doctors who provide those services are limited and have long wait lists, and insurance already veiws them as cosmetic and nkt nessasry treatment.
@@boringnoninterestingname65 This is how I feel about it. I don’t really see how you can meet a trans person (or “cis person who is just confused”) who is perfectly happy with any medical and social transition they have gone through because it has helped them feel truly comfortable with themselves but who simply doesn’t feel dysphoria/feel it the way you as an outsider want them to and come to the conclusion that they are the problem and not you. It is a relief to hear that seemingly a lot a transmeds are accepting of nonbinary people and that doing basically a reverse transvestigaton (as op said in the video) is not productive and will basically just lead to harm for everyone involved. I hope that this sort of sentiment is extended to binary trans people who don’t have dysphoria (/haven’t sufficiently “proved” to the nearest transmed that they have it). Policing what people are allowed to do with their bodies and how they refer to themselves because you don’t understand it doesn’t have the best track record as far as community health goes.
@@godlesssnowshoe Didn’t see your comment! I’ve always thought that dysphoria=hating your body was a transmed idea. It’s basically “Hey, look how much I hate my body for what puberty did! Look how miserable I am, that means I am trans! It is the very core of transness.” And that a more inclusive view of it is that you don’t need to hate yourself. Sometimes you would just rather your body looked a different way and for people to perceive you a certain way and that is okay and you might even be trans, but you don’t need to miserable all the time and hate every part of yourself to be trans or be “worthy” of gender affirming care.
@@dragonfly5835 i mean i think thats part of the problem is people just assume thats what transmeds think, when its really because (imo) most people refuse to actually speak to us. so the narrative just gets passed around from inside inclus communities with very few people stopping to go "wait maybe i should actually ask what they believe" and even when people do, other inclus will say its defending transphobia or the person is secretly transmed for any attempt to solve the problem. inclus "posion the well" a lot- i dont think its ALWAYS intentional but either 1. someone sees a really extreamist transmed and assumes were all like that then shares it around, then everyone thinks were evil or is scared of us so that misinformtion never gets challenged (we actually have a name for more extreame people, radmed, because most of us dont agree with them) or 2. someone does intentionally poision the well and dramatasizes things to make us look worse, in order to scare people away from the possibility of hearing other ideas. because their OWN reasons for holding the beliefs they do is fragile and might be challenged by outside perspectives. and then the well has in fact been poisioned, so theres no attempt to consider what we say or even still disagree but get an accurate understanding and then go "oh okay they dont think what i thought they did, but i still disagree". they now see us as evil and/or scary so theres no opportunity for anyone to seek out accurate infromation, and on the rare occasion they do, the social pressure prevents anyone from sharing it because they will be lumped into the group being demonized. gender dysphoria is the, acording to the diagnositic criteria, unease, distress, or discomfort. that can manifest in a lot of ways that arent self hatred. dissosiation, denial, internalizing issues or feelings, social withdawl, anxeity, etc. it CAN be hating your body, but it can also be kinda mentally tapping out when misgendered or forced into a situation where youre seen as your birth sex, it can be feeling like your body dosent belong to you, it can be anxiety that you may or may not be aware is tied to gender, it can be a feeling of restlessness about your gender or gender presentation, it can become other types of body dysmorphia, it can be a lot of things. people dont all present the same symptom in the same way, just how a person with quiet BPD may be a push over because of the same fear of abandonment that causes a person with impuslive BPD to become overlly reactive and defensive. polar opposite presentation, same symptom. (i have impuslive bpd and my bf has quiet so thats my go-to example sorry lol) it IS inherintly distressing, but distress does not equate self hatred nor like all encompassing agony. and it also dosent have to equate to hating everything assosiated with your birth sex. imo euphoria is the allivation of dysphoria people didnt know was dysphoria. you get so used to being in a state where you dissasoaite from your body or tune things out to where its just normal. you dont even realize its an issue. then suddenly that feeling is gone and youre happy, you feel good and present. (or any other varraition of this) sorry this is very long lol- it just really frustrates me that people assume the "dysphoria is agonizing self hatred" thing is a transmed idea, because its not, its an idea made to demonize people with differing opinions and prevent others from ever considering or speaking to transmeds, bc its seen as a gate way drug into becoming a terf or a trump supporter. /nm
@@dragonfly5835 i for some reason cannot see the comment ur replying to ack 😭 i dont think most transmeds (that i know anyway and i have a decent sized transmed server) really reverse trasvesitgate binary trans people either- at least not anyone i know. there are absoutly people that i see say certian things (like someone saying theyre ftm and they actually love showing off their chest, or they like being called she/her etc) and ill be fully honest, i mentally am like "nope absoutly not yikes" but that is very much an "inside thought" type thing. i dont want to be friends with people like that, nor do i want to engage in trans related discussion with them, but im not gonna say a single word about that to them or say it at all except maybe in my own house to my boyfriend. which is why i generally talk about these topics in a broad sense, on my own platform where people have to choose to interact with it. not to individuals, and not on other people's accounts. i dont have to agree people like that are trans to treat them respectfully, use their correct pronouns, etc. my "inside thought" dosent translate in to thinking its appropiate to go up to people like that and say rude things to them or misgender them. i will simply avoid being around people like that, and if i cant, just be normal and co-exist w/o any kind of attempt to form a closer realtionship. they probably wouldnt like me and i probably wouldnt like them, so i keep my distance and just. be normal?
I love this, I've actually been taking polls on the same subreddit that I plan to post a video on soon. This opened my eyes a lot to the vitriolic ways I've engaged with anti-nb and nb skeptic people in some ways, though I find it interesting how when a binary person hosts these discussions they end up more civil than when a nonbinary person does. I appreciate the summary of perspectives posted here! It's very helpful for visualizing the distinct schools of thought within the community!
I settled with nonbinary because it helps others to have something to label me as. I believe we are limiting ourselves in our own gender expression by basing it of societal structures that don't tend to align with each other throughout different cultures and history. That being said i still experience dysphoria, but it doesn't stem from the want to be a woman, rather I know what's attractive to me and how i can make my body more aligned to that. We shouldn't limit ourselves to frameworks that are clearly dysfunctional, we should be free to express and pursue whatever we need to be our true selves.
gender is not just social construct, gender roles/expectations/norms etc are social constructs. im not a man because i have short hair or wear pants or like hockey, but because of the way my brain developed and functionings affecting my self perception of my own sex characteristics
@@godlesssnowshoe Do you have a video where you go more in-depth on this? I'm doing research about gender, and this makes the most sense to me; I'd love to hear more.
@@misterfishbowl not on this exclusively i dong think, at least not one that's not old and poor quality 😅 I kinda discuss it in the context of other topics usually but I've been meaning to eventually just make a full video dedicated to that topic!
This is why I look forward for when LGBT topics and science are taught in sex ed. (If that happens, maybe in 100 years lol) We will then be able to give young adults the facts and science behind gender theory. No more lowkey grooming online and misinformation that takes up all the "safe spaces" in our community
I am nonbinary but i do use transmasc as a sub gender identity because just using the nonbinary label dose not feel enough to me. And I only use the transmasc part around other trans people because the label transmasc is not a commonly known label. Another thing to add your label can change over time and that's fine also, being nonbinary has nothing to do with how you dress, act or sound. You are nonbinary if you want to be no matter what! 💛🤍💜🖤
If I could like this video twice I would. Even if gender is binary and dysphoria is neurological our understanding of ourselves is shaped by personality and environment. I think that some(most?) NB people are trans.
The term "nonbinary" itself I feel gives a lot of people a false trinary where they think nonbinary is this specific thing very separate from male/female when in actuality there can be overlap. That's why I really like the terminology of duosex & nullsex dysphoria patterns that makes it a lot more self-explanatory. I also like to read about genderfluid dysphoria patterns, since virtually all discussing of genderfluidity comes off as about freedom of gender expression and nonconformity, but I am certain there have to be people out there whose actual gender is fluid, not just presentation.
This video feels like someone trying to explain why people feel "naturally self segregate" is a proper argument as a means to avoid the history of racism. Like for sure, using labels that represent the natural world in order to help us identify issues is good. But /why/ we describe a topic as real/natural can be based more on social expectations rather than what is actually present in reality. Like it's true people self segregate in our current society but much of that segregation is tied to past laws and traditions, not that people actually self segregate to that level when given the chance. However since our society does give more easy options to segregate than integrate, being "neutral" or "only basing x on what's real" is 99% of the time is just following society's wrong standards or slightly remixing those wrong standards. So if someone said "I'm agnostic about race mixing because the one drop rule proves you to be x" then you can clearly tell they're not agnostic, they just have an unreasonable bar of proof required while still being ok with the harm resulting from "waiting for proof" but are too shy/"polite" to stand by their logic. So the transmed position can try to be non-hateful as much as it wants. The results that come from transmed beliefs being propagated through the game of telephone will more often result in a blaire whites or eugenicist rather than actually solving people's underlying issues around gender. The debate you're describing is one that's already breached off from the main tree trunk and understanding that branch requires ignoring the rest of the tree trunk above
i dont really think comparing it to that is very reasonable tbh. especially considering the last paragraph being largely untrue when very few transmeds like or agree with people like blair, and she is not a transmed in her beliefs nor has she called herself one/ interacted with our community. inlcusionist ideas that gender is nothing but a social construct and dosent exist is just as much its own branch as transmedicalism, if anything the "trunk" is just "sex does not equal gender". inclus ideas very easily horseshoe them selves into coming to the same conclusion as terfs if you follow the argument to its end. transness also actually has a solid basis in biology- every time someone tries to do "race science" its just finding a reason someone is lesser or more than someone else and its complete pseudoscience. and even in those contexts its not trying to explain why or if at all certain races exist (which is done through evolutionary biology which is is real science. and does not relate to social aspects/ history beyond how and when humans migrated to certain areas) someone saying "i dunno if this thing exists" is pretty much the definition of agnostic. lack of knowledge. a-gnostic. its not an unreasonable ammount of evidence to say youd want the same studies done about binary trans people to be done regarding nb people. its a consistent and previously met standard. theres not "harm" from holding all your beliefs to the same standard of evidence, especially considering the studies regarding binary people are from universities and medical institutions who have ethics boards and essentially equate to getting an MRI or FMRI but letting people use the data from it. being respectful of what others wish to be called while refusing to take a hard stance due to lack of knowledge is not being "too polite to stand by their logic" its just being a decent person. i stand by my logic on religion but i dont tell people to theyre face everything wrong with the bible when someone talks about their pastor or church. i just nod and move on. because sure i think theyre wrong but its needlessly rude. and being unsure due to lack of evidence does not equate to being against something. itd be more harmful for someone unsure what their stance is to assume a negative and disrepect someone, then be wrong, than to just nod along while being unsure. theres nothing harmful about wanting evidence before you believe something. especially not when that exact standard of evidence has been met on essentially a different niche of the same topic. and saying inclus arguing gender has no relation to biology and is just a made up social idea CERTAINLY isnt solving any problems around gender, its shoving them under the bed to collect dust.
@@godlesssnowshoe That's why I said "game of telephone". Hobbyist transmed folk may have more nuances but the average person is not going that deep into gender. They'll take other general information, which from my experiences tends to be more like the example I gave. People learning gender is a social construct tends to work out better even when the game of telephone happens. Cause let's be real, people also aren't medical doctors who understand how the human body works on a practical level. The average person knows the high level view of how the body functions and will base responses off that abstraction. You can say that's wrong but it's most certainly not any kin of transmedicalism. Tracing the linage of a person and putting a label to that is a more reasonable version of how race can work, even if race is just a social construct. The linage of a kin is real and science, it's certain expectations we have that makes figuring said linage harmful. Same for gender/sex/brain development, it's a material thing humans used as a means to create social expectations. Like you can't say there's no evidence that a group of humans have ancestors that correlate to previous humans from wherever those specific humans lived before and acclimated to said locations, denying that would be silly. Our modern sciences made real branches that helped people because we dropped the pseudoscience portions of those studies. In my opinion, the transmed talks are also, as another example, like religious talks in that in order to discuss the transmed topic you have to take on beliefs one does not actually hold because fundamentally the argument is not one of mutual information exchange but transmeds requiring an acceptance of evidence that isn't actually beneficial aka, a normie turns into a "polite" blaire white more often than not. If taking at face value, yes not knowing is someone being agnostic. However, if you consider things like the southern strategy, that notion becomes fuzzier. Cause the person themselves may not know but the information/ideology clearly does so if pointed out that type of person tends to freeze and deflect because they would have to accept an uncomfortable truth to their logic. A way to get around that is just by stating willful deliberate agnosticism. For sure do the studies, studies good, but rule 1 of any study that any college should teach is that biases always occur. Why you pick a study or how you study anything is in it of itself a question to be asked so you know what biases are present. When it's not asked, a lot of harm can be done like the "respect" being to act nice to someone rather than actually being nice to someone. You are not directly mean to religious folks in your religion videos, but the hostile reaction you get sometimes by talking negatively about religion is because you are being disrespectful to the standards of the religion person. You're just being nice about it. If someone will say someone's pronoun only because they don't want to create direct conflict but will vote for certain folks or fund certain studies that harm those same people, then it's not actual respect and is when you pair that with the "Idk" it's also not taking a real stance for why a person believes in their beliefs. IT'S DEFENTILY A BETTER OUTCOME, but it's still not a good outcome. Just accidental harm reduction. Also your videos are good, you do give evidence. But that evidence is still formed around a bias which is why there can be so much disagreement of what "standard evidence" means. For example: I didn't say gender has no relation to biology, I said it was a social construct and social constructs are made up of relationships to the real world but abstracted in different ways. Which hopefully you can see is more nuanced that what you're portraying at that comment there. But that's just me, I'll eventually be making videos as to why transmeds is a bad way to go about stuff so we'll see how that goes!
This is an interesting video. Thanks for doing the poll and presenting the range of opinions. Personally I think the neurological model for gender, while I agree with it to some extent, I think it's only 1 piece of a much more complex puzzle. Even if the social aspect can't change your neurological gender, what it can do is affect the way it presents / observed / measured. And unless we have a perfect brain scanner (and take a moment to think, what would you do if one existed and it misgendered you?), all we can go on is what we observe, not what's actually there. I would argue, while there is value in doing more scientific research into brain neurologoly of transness, it's not very useful when it comes to how one views themselves. One's social identity may or may not perfectly align with neurology (and of course without the 100% perfect brain scanner we have no way of knowing). And when it comes to interaction with others, only the social identity is relevant. Even though for a lot of trans people, dysphoria is innate, static and fixed... I don't think it is always that simple. Especially as dysphoria is not a monolith. This is why I'm not a transmed myself, combined with the fact I have an experience not fitting neatly into any box. As you quite rightly point out, non-binary does offer a lot for oneself to explore their gender (whether or not they actually are non-binary) and allows a high degree of non-specificity... which is important when your (or should I say my own) experience doesn't fit neatly into boxes. One thing you mentioned was "apathy about birth sex". And you claimed no difference from being cis. I personally don't share that belief. I personally think apathy could be both neurologically cis and could also be neurologically trans. But again we don't know without the perfect brain scanner. It's just that, if one is apathetic, they are more likely to not question and therefore be socially cis (whether or not this is actually correct neurologically). Also the apathy can vary on how connected they are with their body (which can also be fluid).
do you have a read on, in general, what transmeds feel about multiple sources for gender dysphoria? what i mean is, everywhere i look discussion on transness seems to stem from this question of what One Thing makes people trans. like this brain structure debate. I don't know why nobody seems to consider that gender dysphoria is real but can develop due to multiple reasons, but whichever it 'stems from' transitioning is likely an effective treatment. I think you underestimate the 'societal' piece of what gender entails. it's not only biology. as social creatures, our biology, especially brain-wise, develops based on our social conditions. I think assuming all cases of someone identifying as nonbinary while not having a 'nonbinary brain' is kind of short-sighted. sure, that could be a piece of the puzzle, but I also think some people choose to use they/them or he/they or whatever pronouns because it signifies to the people around them more 'correct' or 'comfortable' assumptions about the social role they play. It's a separate social gender structure than the average societal model of Man and Woman. This doubles for like, neopronouns. It's most certainly a way online cultures have developed different signifiers than those of the real world. I don't get it, but that's just because it isn't the social circle I inhabit. this is coming from someone who would probably be considered a binary trans man who identifies solely with he/him because of what that means people assume about me. I don't like being called they/them. But like. They/them has different social meanings and associations to different people, that certainly affects their choice regarding what they 'Are', because you can't perceive yourself entirely separate from the lens of how other people see you and how other people see themselves. That is what defines social constructs- of which gender (not sex) is one. to be clear, this is a genuine comment out of the desire to share my opinion. im not trying to be a hater lmao. i welcome responses and i love discussing things.
IMO? It's *very likely* that non-binary exists, but not certain...yet. The intersex argument you mentioned is why I have this opinion; it's basically perfect. This doesn't mean that a lot of people who identify as such aren't doing so based on a flawed constructionist conception of gender, though. I'll generally respect their pronouns (unless they're neopronouns but that's a different conversation), etc because yeah, it's weird and time-consuming to obsessively pick out which is "fake" and which is not
Genuine question from a trans person who does experience dysphoria but doesn’t describe themself as transmed, why do you think that gender dysphoria is necessary? I do get that discomfort from being referred to as one’s bio sex is generally a very common among trans folks, but I’ve also heard some people describe their trans-ness as a disconnect from their birth gender, rather than distinct discomfort from their bio sex. I mean this in the most polite, genuine way btw, not trying to like argue my opinion or anything, just curious :]
To me it's like saying why should someone with autism have to have autistic traits? Or why should someone who is gay need to like the same gender? It's because that makes them trans. People who say that they only have a disconnect and not dysphoria usually are either confusing gender idenity and gender stereotypes or they don't realise that they actually are experiencing dysphoria. Dysphoria doesn't have to be unbearable and many people disassociate to deal with it.
If possible, could you explain in further detail what you mean by somebody feeling "disconnected" from their AGAB? If you mean like disassociation, then that sounds like something caused by dysphoria that the person isn't aware of. But if you meant something else then I really don't know. If you don't know how else to describe it that's fine, I just want to make sure I understand what you mean.
@@Silly-The-Third ah, not entirely sure, I assume just not feeling like it fully fits I suppose? I dunno as I wouldn’t describe my experience with my gender as just a disconnect, so I can’t explain much, sorry ^^
Good I noticed this vid and checked it, I could have accidentally sub to a transmedicalist. Many people will probably just see the vids about Trump and religion and not notice this.
I thought transmed was the same as truscum except they differ on the nb topic. Like truscum believe nb is a gender and have dysphoria but transmeds believe nb isn’t a genders and doesn’t have dysphoria
nope. transmed are truscum both mean you need dysphoria to be trans. some people consider transmed to focus on the biological origin for transness and accessibility of transition care more, but generally theyre interchangeable
eh, im not a big fan of the "non-binary lesbian" thing but i also understand the relectance to use labels like that. i personally would fit my own sexuality into "polyesxual" more accuratly but i really do not like microlables, so i say im bisexual or just "i dont like dicks" as my sexuality because it communicates it better. imo at least to me, the purpose of labels is to be able to communicate something without having to explain it. if you say "lesbian" they know you like women. if you say "gynosexual" theres a solid chance that dosent mean anything to the person your talking to- i had to look it up to reply to this and i make content on this stuff lol. ie, i say bisexual because they will know i like both genders, which is true. sure i would not date someone with a dick regardless of their AGAB or gender idenity, but if i say im bisexual that communicates more clearly "i am dating a man but also im attracted to women and NB people". instead of "im polysexual" and then "oh what does that mean". lol. i do think it makes more sense for people who arent male presenting, or at least if they look more butch than like, idk look like a cis man with facial hair and pecks and shit lol, but at the end of the day while its off putting to me, i get why they do it lol. that being said this line of reasoning does not apply to people saying theyre trans masc nb or trans men lol. atp you are aligning yourself with being a man, just say youre straight.
Transmed is the belief that you have to feel dysphoria to be trans. I am a rather feminine AMAB, so I really only get dysphoria from hearing my pronouns on a she or they day. Anyways, you count and you’re valid :>
that's a good video, i wasn't really aware of what transmed is before and i kinda had misconceptions on it. about my stance: i am non-binary not transmed (obviously) and i believe that non-binary is valid but there are some people who might actually be trans/cis, gender is a confusing thing and it's hard to understand sometimes, i do allign a bit more with my agab so i'm not really non-binary as middle of the road kinda person. i generally believe that non-binary identity could not be medical and that some non-binary people fall under the trans umbrella but some might not and the non-binary identity is a social thing and could also have a lot to do with your upbringing, i personally found my gender identity to be non-binary because i do not think i fullfill binary gender roles but i do not feel like transitioning to the other gender
Hi, transmed here. I do believe that nonbinary is a thing, I really do, and I think most radical right side people are kinda dumb when they refer to they/them as difficult to use. Its insanely easy, Ill never understand that. I do say, though, nonbinary is its own thing. I dont see it as a transgender/transsexual thing. We experience two different types of discomfort. There is no ideal of passing through the world as nonbinary as there is for man or woman. Im not against the idea of nonbinary people fighting for what they believe in, but being transgender/transsexual comes strictly from gender dysphoria, and if you dont have that extreme discomfort with your sex and the drive to fix it, then there is no reason why you'd be trans to begin with. I can't turn off my discomfort and what almost feels like a disability to function through the world and it hurts seeing people who clearly can and parade what im struggling with as something beautiful, and even worst, speaking on behalf of people like me when we experience two completely different lives. I can not relate to the nonbinary experience. I would be happy to see science on what nonbinary people feel, but without it, it's just a different way of gender expression with some possible irreversible cosmetic changes (hrt, surgery). I do believe nonbinary should be treated like trans in a way as we all should receive therapy before going through any form of permanent changes. I hope nothing I've said has offended anyone, I believe almost everyone is beautiful and should live a life without harm to others, as long as you are happy. Im a transsexual man with a fluid expression, but Im very firm in binary. Im open to conversation and replies to what I have said, but I really wanted to give my thoughts on the conversation.
Hello! I’m a nonbinary person! And I would like to to say that (in my personal experience) that non-binary people can experience gender dysphoria, although there is probably many that don’t. I do agree that the idea of passing as a NB person is a little different than a ftm/mtf person, but I feel that the ideal look (at least for me) is to look androgynous. Thank you for reading this and I’m sorry if it’s worded terribly
@@Ra1npudd1e No you worded it fine! I appreciate the feedback. I just wonder if the gender dysphoria is more of a branch of the mental disorder specifically for non binary people since its something only some nb identified people experience. All transsexual people experience gender dysphoria, so what is the case of people who don't experience GD yet still identify as the opposite gender or nb? I believe its less of the person having a mental disorder and more of a social identity - something someone can just feel more comfortable choosing. I don't know why many people become upset when someone says that their experience isn't trans and is instead something else. I would be happy, knowing how gender dysphoria affects me, to hear my experience is something else, but not everyone wants to hear that. Sorry for being a yapper ;o;
also! please check out this podcast me and some friends are doing! ruclips.net/video/wXGEcDVBDK4/видео.htmlsi=dbigx4VhE0eKGzA_
Edit: to the person spamming all the comments and my other videos comments- congrats on being the 2nd person ever to be banned from my channel for a reason other than saying slurs! for context there was a person replying to like half of the comments on this video saying i hate or harrass nb people, which has never been true. (my old @ was kanincotton
YAY 🎉🎉🎉
as a nonbinary person I can confirm I don’t exist
that is not at all what im trying to say with this video bro
@@godlesssnowshoe I am just a figment of your imagination *insert ghostly noises here*
@@godlesssnowshoe idk if this person was claiming that ur trying to say this, I took it as a just joke lol. Maybe im missing context though
i dunno, all im seeing is the Hear: "let's see different people's different perspectives (built by different life experiences) on this topic with no solid consensus just yet" into Conclusion: "Error 404 nonbinary no existo" combo
@@spyritsolz i am autism im sorry 😭😭😭
We really need a better language to describe and differentiate these different attitudes and schools of thought. From the jump, at least, I do appreciate the clear disavowal of the pick-me's who say "Oooh I'm just a mentally-ill man! Feel free to throw a tomato at me if you want! Can I come to your party yet?"
For me, it's fairly obvious that gender identity is fundamentally rooted in biology and then further shaped by one's social experiences, language, and self-perception. The two most critical ideas for me are that a) people have a fundamental human right to self-expression, self-realization, and self-actualization, provided they don't infringe upon others' rights to the same, and b) both practically and ethically, people cannot and should not be bullied, brainwashed, pestered, lectured, concern-trolled, or persuaded into changing their fundamental core sexual or gender identity---at most, their behavior, their language, and their ability to imagine certain possibilities can be constrained or focused.
There are likely a number of potential reasons people might identify as or feel non-binary, and I'd say that's only the business of scientists, philosophers, those individuals themselves, and those individuals' therapists. My personal hypothesis is that the average human being probably has a greater capacity for gender and sexual fluidity than we've historically recognized, and it's not unreasonable to assume that perhaps nonbinary people just happen to be tethered to a looser, longer biological and/or psychological "leash" in that regard compared to the average cis or trans person whose identity is more binary.
My ultimate goal is to continue to dismantle the oppressive and intrusive walls and boxes that prevent people from expressing and knowing themselves as fully as they could otherwise, and believe that we'll actually learn more about how identity itself works as we move closer to that utopian society.
Now, personally, I'd prefer to live in a world where most people identify as sexually--fluid and use non-binary pronouns, but that's my personal pipe dream.
Honestly I completely agree, only thing I disagree on is the idea that non-binary individuals have a looser metaphorical leash on identity. Their identity is as rock solid as anyone else's, and it's wired the same way as cis-gender folks' brains are, just in a different pattern. I do think perhaps they have an easier time finding out and coming to terms with being enby, and so maybe it might seem like it's looser, but I disagree on the notion they'd be more fluid in their gender identity, I just think it's easier to realize and express.
That, and I completely agree that expressing yourself in whatever damn way you please is a human right, no one can control what you do with your body, that's a line we do not cross, period. The only place where the "your right to punch ends at the tip of my nose" argument, while solid, is a little flimsy as to what we consider the metaphorical tip of the nose to be. Whether that be using certain bathrooms, or playing in sports, those are questions best left to be answered by real professionals and not politicians or the general public in my opinion.
@@That_Damn_Plaid_Ram , that's perfect sensible! Just to clarify, my leash metapohor wasn't meant to suggest that non-binary people are less confident or strong in how they feel (far from it!) but just that most human beings reportedly feel a moderate-to-strong attachment to either the Green Team or the Red Team, and non-binary people obviously break from that pattern.
I believe our first aim as a society should be to include and integrate everyone who's willing to play ball and coexist with others peaceably in a free, open, tolerant society, and if we have to offer accommodations or do some tweaks to make the playing field "fair" (whatever that might mean) we can cross those bridges when we get to them. I agree that we need to look to the data when making trickier or more complicated decisions, and not just go based on our stereotypes or unexamined gut feelings. Frankly, the screaming about bathrooms and competitive sports is largely just an intentional bad-faith distraction being artificially generated by a bunch of people and special interest groups that not only just hate trans people, but are actively seeking to weaponize transphobia to roll back society more generally. Such people should always be asked to articulate the specific harms and pushed to suggest a solution for those harms that does not entail the exclusion, dehumanization, subjugation, or otherization of some group, and anyone who can't meet those terms should be dismissed back to the kiddie table.
@@dinosaysrawr I honestly could not have said that any better, some things have to change if we want to continue living peacefully here. Unfortunately, America as a whole does not share the sentiment, and an entire half of the ruling class uses them as political pawns in an issue that shouldn't be political for votes and pandering. Thankfully I won't be here much longer lol
My sibling is trans and my ENTIRE damn family including myself is some fabulous flavor of fruity and America isn't.. exactly the best place for that kind of family, right now-
nothing really to add but i love this comment, agree, and wanna acknowledge it lol
@@godlesssnowshoe I'm glad we all seem to see eye-to-eye :>
As a nonbinary person I absolutely experience gender dysphoria. I have ALWAYS. felt different growing up. I was never my AGAB. As soon as I could speak coherently I wanted to go by a different name and pronouns and I had no idea what those terms even were. I tried this again later a few times (family was supportive) and it never stuck until I discovered nonbinary. I had never felt so seen and comfortable with myself until that point. My dad always suspected I might be intersex because of the way I was growing up and I might not be physically that I know of, but I guess you could say that mentally I always was in a way. I'm not a fan of people who are clearly not nonbinary and are identifying as such for political or trivial reasons. I personally believe in order to be trans or nonbinary you need to have gender dysphoria otherwise it's something else like gender non-conforming, gender apathetic, genderfluid etc etc. I'm a bit of a stickler for labels and definitions so naturally I'm also not a fan of "nonbinary lesbians" as the definition of lesbian was "A woman who likes other women." I believe it's been adjusted now to throw in nonbinary people, but to me it feels like an afterthought. As someone who has thought they were a demi-boy for the longest time I don't mind the new gay flag (green and blue) and somewhat identify with it as it feels less harsh compared to the rainbow flag both visually and in my experiences. I also like the terms "uranic, platonic, neptunic / trixic, toric, enbian" etc. Those are nonbinary specific sexualities that for me anyway make me feel seen and included. I'm honestly surprised the skeptic and non-supportive people came in calmly and maturely to discuss their opinions instead of being incredibly hateful and scrutinizing. I also believe it's good to hear other points of view and I'm not a fan of people who instantly scream "You're enby/transphobic if you dont agree with my certain viewpoints!!!1!1!1"
I used to identify as Agender as I wanted to present neutrally because that's how I felt. I was lowkey bullied out of it and eventually came to nonbinary because I didn't like people telling me "You know you're not an alien, right?" & "Look.. I support you, but I don't believe you're an alien/you exist" (You dont support me if you're going to say those things to my face?? also I literally never said I was an alien which arse cheek are you pulling that crap out of??) Anyway whoops long comment but thank you for making this video Kanin. It helped put into words my thoughts and beliefs I could never find words to speak. I feel unrealistically validated by some trans dude online letting it be known he supports nonbinary people and I just want to say thank you for that. It means more than it should to me. Where I live I'm not seen or accepted a lot, so validation and acceptance means a lot to me.
honestly as a nonbinary person I give people the respect they deserve with this topic, if someone says "I don't believe its real and this is why" ok cool, lets talk about that! but if they give the jeffree star approach and say "I think people were just bored during quarantine and its all just for attention" and they cant explain further, I walk the other way. I do think even if im not trans med, more people would be if they knew hating nonbinary people isnt a necessary stance to take when being trans med.
it is important though we start recognizing gender dysphoria as something every trans person inherently has, nonbinary or binary trans because it came to my surprise that people who arent in lgbtq spaces whether or not they support trans people dont know its more then just "im going to start becoming a different gender now" and not that its a life long mental health issue that transitioning can help but not "fix".
@@ssnowstarr4985 sorry not trying to be hostile just genuinely curious here, I know socially like being called by the wrong pronouns and being referred to as your deadname can cause dysphoria not just your physical body parts but all I said was that every trans person has dysphoria to some capacity? I think im confused about what you're saying 🥲
I've heard people say that gender dysphoria is required to be trans, but I personally feel it's the other way around. Many trans people experience dysphoria BECAUSE they're trans. BECAUSE their gender and sex don't match, sometimes that can CAUSE feelings of discomfort and distress. Why is having a mental disorder required to exist as your identity? Wouldn't it make more sense that some people develop this disorder because of their identity instead?
I'd love to learn more about the transmed mindset around to being trans/genderqueer and how it's related to gender dysphoria and passing (such as presenting masc if you're a trans man and vice versa), because I'm a bit confused on how y'all view the relationship between them :)
the best explanation that we have currently is through brain function and structure. theres been some very promising and interesting FMRI studies (all studies referenced are under my "about me" link bc yt hates links). there are consistent sexually dimorphic areas in both brain structure and in functioning.
trans people consistently show functioning of that of their gender they identify with, including in regions of the brain responsible for bodily perception. this is currently our best understanding of why people are trans, and directly correlates to bodily perception in brain function not matching the actual reality of our bodies: causing dysphoria.
while these areas of the brain are decently well understood and i feel confident saying trans people have neurological and neurochemical differences from cis folks as well as our birth sex, it is a strongly supported though not fully proven hypothesis that these differences are the cause of gender dysphoria.
point of mentioning that being is the identity and the dysphoria are directly interlinked, the cause for the identity is the cause for the dysphoria. they are inseparable parts of a whole. the identity is simply the social way in which we define it. the identity its self is a social construct, as humans created the words male female trans and cis, but the experience of being any of those things is not socially constructed and exists weather i say woman, female, kvinne, mujer, or something else.
humans like to catagorize things into neat little boxes, but those things still exist regardless of the boxes we create for them. an atom is still a real object no matter what we call it or what things we consider a part of that catagory, basically.
on that note with gender, i dont see the identity as seperate from dysphoria in any way. dysphoria is the result in neurological differences which have been shown to develop in the womb (sources in about me link) and that development would occur weather or not we had an identity tied to it.
essentially the identity dosent come first because the identity is a result of the dysphoria, its the label weve chosen go catagorize this experience through. as its become a more well known one, people have failed ro understand what it is and why it exists and choose to classify it at soley socially constructed and tried to divorce it from its actual source- the neurological differences and therefore dysphoria.
i do think plenty of trans people may not realize theyre dysphoric until later in life, and i think a lot of misconceptions around what dysphoria is has caused some people to falsely claim they dont experience it. which also can fuel the idea that dysphoria can come later instead of being the causing factor. along side again the attempt to redefine the words into purely social and neglecting their tangible basis.
TLDR: you will know youre trans because you experience dysphoria, weather or not people actually recognize their feelings as dysphoria. dysphoria comes from sexually dimorphic brain function in areas lf the brain responsible for body perception, and isnt so much a type of mental illness as it is a neurological condition.
@@godlesssnowshoe Ah, alright, thank you for the response! That's interesting to think about. I would like to point out though that your source link appears to not work, it says it's been deleted or something along those lines :)
oh damn lemme fix it gimme a sec 😭 shit lol edit: it was a google doc n i ran outa space on my gmail and i think i accidentally killed it 😭 gotta remake it, ill send another comment when its fixed i thought it was just a broken link 🥲
@@godlesssnowshoe No worries!
OKAY I CONTACTED GOOGLE DRIVE SUPPORT IT SHOULD BE RECOVERED 🙏🙏🙏 i was so scared it died lol
for me, being nonbinary is just like being the purple between pink and blue-no specific gender, you just kinda exist between the chaos
the thing is very confusing though, so i would definitely suggest more people to do more studies on it, its truly fascinating to me!
I’ve heard a lot of people in the Transmedical subreddit argue that there are only 2 sexes and so you can’t transition to a sex that doesn’t exist, which is weird because this isn’t about gametes but rather about characteristics which can overlap or be intermediate between differing sexed body maps. I’m an NB transmed so obviously I disagree with those people very strongly. I will say the folks on r/Transmedical seem by and large incredibly vitriolic and nasty about their anti-NB stance and regularly shame people as being freaks and fetishists if their dysphoria causes them to desire dual or intermediate genitalia, and yeah the vibe is just too cruel there and they complain about us constantly and assert that our dysphoria isn’t real, valid, or worthy of being called dysphoria at all.
as someone who is nonbinary, if someone identifies as nonbinary thats cool!! im not gonna ask them questions about it cus who cares if their attention seeking or lying or “arent actually nonbinary” for whatever reason. i dont care. i do think that there should be more research into nonbinary brains because i heard somewhere (cant remember the source) that nonbinary-ism is more common in autistic people because of a more complex view on gender than people who are not autistic. im not a transmed tho so i guess my opinion doesnt matter or something
where did anyone say ur opinion doesn't matter if ur not transmed? i said in this video i think discussing these things civilly is useful both within transmed spaces and outside of them. honestly i agree with everything you said here but i dont appreciate the kinda snarky assumption at the end there. /nm
@@godlesssnowshoe sorry i saw the comments was full of transmeds and i didnt know if inclusionists were like. supposed to/allowed to watch this
Idk why this got recommended to me or wtf half these things mean but here we go lol
From an outsiders perspective it just seems like people are trying to gatekeep lol, kinda reminds me of the saying "the more outwardly accepting a group is the more inwardly toxic it is".
At the end of the day, just be true to yourself and don't let no goobers ESPECIALLY online goobers tell you what to do with yourself 😎
gatekeeping is a morally neutral action, it depends on context!
@@godlesssnowshoeit’s kinda like the guitarist community. If you go in wanting to learn, you’ll find a lot of support, but if you pretend like you know everything and you don’t even pick up a guitar, people might question ya a bit 😂
(This is probably a bad analogy, but I’m trying)
@@ravenblackwing7888 I get that, lying is always gonna catch up to people who do lie, it's definitely annoying to see lol
i mean yeah pretty much this LOL
Gatekeeping is often necessary, especially with medical conditions. For example there are many people who pretend to have autism or claim that they're autistic without a any diagnosis which is harmful to autistic people because these people often spread misinformation about autism. It also spreads the idea that autism is a trend.
As a result of lots of people IDing as non binary bc they're GNC and not trans means that there are lots of people who ID as non binary who spread misinformation as they don't have dysphoria. Trans meds don't want these people spreading misinformation.
As a nonbinary who is in their 40s and has felt this way since childhood I now proclaim myself a freaking fairy. Cus if I don't exist I might as well have magic too
did you actually watch the video or like
Currently I'm an admin in a medium-large trans server on discord, and it's been really frustrating trying to bring up anything regarding transmeds (multiple members regularly say things like "Truscum are the fascists of the trans community"). It's so frustrating because I feel like the only way to find good scientific data is by listening to transmeds and going through their sources lol
it just sucks the label has been so tarnished by people online strawmanning, when generally transmeds seem to be pretty accepting overall...? lol
I think the bad ones were what made people hate them. I remember falling following some pretty shitty ones that really started to mess with my mental health and alot I interacted with were just rude. It's only until I found this channel I started thinking oh there are some decent trans meds out there. It's definitely frustrating the few peices if crap ruined the term for everyone
@ssnowstarr4985 never done that lmao. said I was one bitter comment away from blocking you so congrats on being the literally second ever person to be blocked from my comments ig LOL
one of the reasons i've been very skeptical of transmeds is because of the ones against non-binary genders. i also found it kind of weird to treat being anti-non-binary as *just* another opinion. like yeah of course it's fine to not know everything about non-binary people but being "against" non-binary people just seems so weird and needlessly exclusionary.
As the resident nb of the server I'm here xD
👍
COVID WIZARD
@@godlesssnowshoe yessss my immunity to covid is legendary
It’s such a pleasant surprise to find a RUclips video that discusses transness in a productive and respectful way and isn’t about fighting transphobes
Nb here. Trying to figure out if i want to be a girl. I’m working on looking androgynous. This video was fantastic and i always love your stuff!
best of luck to you, thanks! 💞💞
@@godlesssnowshoe thank you! Your channel has helped a lot
Duuuuude I need the vid on kalvin I'm not even gonna hold you on that one bro, pleassssse lmao
Kalvin low-key turned me sexist in highschool, he had me spouting shit about how the pay gap isn't real, I was turning into the worst kind of man basically. Cause I took kalvin as fact (I was like 13 don't bully me now lmao) and he was pretty against the concept of an other gender (which is what I actually am) I use to be a hardcore transmedicalist, but now I'm just a fella existing, still involved in trans issues but more middle ground? I don't speak loudly in the space as I look like a cis woman easily rn (living in the south atm, so being androgynous is kinda hard, small town & not trying to be a statistic yk?) but I still try to amplify my trans homies, and still yk am affected by trans issues lol. I now identify as basically nonbinary, but use a dif term cause I have a complete disconnect from my sex/body due to extensive childhood trauma. My genders always felt.. conflicted though. My body is more so just a tool now, and I struggle with identity cause I don't feel or not feel like a man or woman, lots of conflicting confusing emotions 😅 anyways sorry for the long yap, would just love to hear a trans man speak about garrah, I love hearing all perspectives and I've heard non trans-medicalist trans men talk about him, but not someone like you thus I'm very curious :3 I love hearing as many perspectives as I can, and typically I agree with you on most topics and even when I don't, you present your points in such respectable way that it doesn't take away from the value of your content. You're what more commentators should be tbh, keep bein great dude, imma pack another bowl and watch more of your vid/vids(in a binge mood and I think I missed a few uploads) 😎😎✌️
i really wanna make a video on it but im worried the nuance will make ppl think im defending him which is absolutely not how i feel abt him LOL- i rlly wanna make the video but incase i dont the like short answer to it ig is like, i think his content was overwhelmingly harmful to both the trans community as a whole, and honestly to transmed spaces as well. but i think we also need to be aware he was a child when making this content, a bully, but a child.
obviously for the larger trans community i feel its obvious that it was harmful, he caused countless people to be harrassed, and spread a lot of ideas that even as a transmed i think were really just based on hate and judgement more than any grounded reasoning.
i do think overall he was harmful to transmed communities as well though, admittedly not nearly as much as the wider trans community ofc, but he encouraged a lot of us to become really angry people and encouraged really immature ways of discussing things. i feel lije a lot of transmeds now, at least in the spaces i exist in, are for the most part pretty level headed and have some kind of solid basis for our beliefs, but he really did just encourage pretty much the opposite of that and that caused a really toxic culture.
ALL THAT BEING SAID however, i feel like ig this is where im worried people will think im defending him, and i wanna make it clear thats not the case as a 16-17 yo should still know better than this, i just still think this is important to acknowledge-
he was a child who had a platform grow pretty rapidly, and also did regular collabs with blair who was in her mid 20s at the time. (which is kinda sus on her part)
that obviously does not make his actions excusable, especially since they followed some people such as Fern (Lars) into real life. but i think some people are unable to understand that hes grown as a person, because he was a 16/17yo with a massive platform getting attention from much bigger creators. hes active on twitter and used to have a tiktok where he was openly accepting of gnc trans folks and even wore a skirt, and has supported nb folks.
that being said NO ONE is obligated to forgive him, like him, etc. i still personally am not a fan of him despite acknowledging hes grown a lot. but he was kind of a kid who was clearly insecure and was rewarded for taking that insecurity out on others through rapid attention, money, and attention from bigger adult creators.
ig my point was all that is he did a LOT of harm but people look at him like hes a cartoon villain, and i really dont think he is- he was a teenage bully who grew a platform before being able to mature and change his behavior, and that bullying was rewarded instead?
I'm bi and the "it's a just stepping stone or coping mechanism" position is reminiscent of some biphobic rhetoric than bi people are actually just gay/lesbian but won't admit it or just straight but confused. Definitely curious on how the NB isn't real group thinks about bisexuality considering the similarity in the arguments.
also bi and yeah i agree tbh. while i think thats definitely the case for some people, actually including myself (i identified as agender for years) i think saying thats what NB is as a whole is pretty incorrect. lots of people cycle through different labels when exploring both sexuality and gender identity but that doesn't mean the labels someone previously used aren't real. they just didn't fit that person in the end.
i am definitely not agender, and i would say it was a "stepping stone" for me, because i was honestly scared to admit being ftm to myself and wanted to almost "ease into it". but that being said one of my close friends is agender and has has nullo bottom surgery and is like, definitely agender lol. theyre not a confused or in denial trans woman. their experience actually went to opposite way of mine that they identified as MTF before agender, and that doesn't make trans women not a thing just because that wasnt what fit them best either 🤷♂️
@godlesssnowshoe oh BTW I found an article in the Journal of 53xual Medicine that's might be of interest since it discussed nonbinary vs trans people's desires for gender affirming care and transition motives. It's called "Gender Affirming Medical Treatment Desire and Treatment Motives in Binary and Non-Binary Transgender Individuals." Admittedly the journal's SJR is lower than desired (.83), but flawed evidence is better than no evidence, plus it might be a jumping off point for more sources into the topic. Sorry if you already saw this comment, I think it got automatically removed for including a link.
Found an interesting Reddit entry years ago about this I’ll paste it here: In a literal sense, the rhetoric is wrong because dysphoria isn't the prerequisite of being trans, just a common result of it. The cause of being transgender is known as gender incongruence, which is when a person identifies as and/or feels more comfortable and authentic as a gender that doesn't match their assigned one. Gender incongruence can manifest in a manner of different ways, but they can all be grouped up into two vague categories: euphoria and dysphoria.
Gender euphoria is a feeling of happiness when you present in a way that validates your gender. That can include shaving, tucking/binding, wearing gender affirming clothing, et cetera. The bottom line, though, is that it's a distinctly positive feeling.
Gender dysphoria, therefore, is the feeling of distress that a trans person gets due to that incongruence. Common forms include bottom (genital) dysphoria, top (chest) dysphoria, and voice dysphoria. Social and mental dysphoria exist as well, of course, but body dysphoria is easier to provide examples of. The idea is, though, that dysphoria is the distinctly negative feeling caused by gender incongruence.
Truscum believe that incongruence always results in dysphoria, and they posit that euphoria is inextricably tied to dysphoria-rather than being a separate feeling of happiness, they say that it's caused by relief from dysphoria. As such, they believe that every trans person must experience dysphoria to really be trans, and if they don't they aren't really transgender. They call these people "tucutes".
The issue with this line of thinking is that it tries to tightly define a deeply personal experience. Gender euphoria and gender dysphoria both originate from the feeling that you would be more comfortable in a different gender. How that manifests is different for every trans person. In my case, l have bad social dysphoria-| really want to be perceived as a woman by society. But I lack, for instance, voice dysphoria. I don't hate my voice for being too masculine, and I actually sing. Just because I don't have voice dysphoria doesn't make me not trans though, I have other forms of dysphoria. But another trans person might have no social dysphoria and very bad voice dysphoria. That's because incongruence manifests differently for everybody who has it.
That's why truscum ideology is harmful. It argues that a trans person needs to experience their incongruence in a certain way (some argue a certain amount of dysphoria, some argue certain forms of dysphoria, some argue any form of dysphoria at all) to be worthy of transitioning.
When in reality, if a person wants to transition for any reason, they should be allowed to. If it would make them happier, it should be an option open to them.
For an analogy to really hammer my point home, imagine if there were effeminate gay men (participate in gay culture, watch/do drag, et cetera) who argue that more masculine gay men weren't really gay because they aren't effeminate enough. It's true that many gay men are more effeminate than straight men. Most, actually, I would say. But to try and gatekeep gayness with effeminacy is just not right. It's the same idea with truscum.
very disappointed i read through all that for the person to give an accurate descriptor of transmedicalism just for everything following it to be presumptive. transmedicalism = you need dysphoria to be trans. not you need this much or this specific type, it mean you need dysphoria. there are transmeds who will say any range of "yep as long as u got it" to very specific things, and honestly i feel ad though i fall into a middle range of if you do not care at all about being precived as a different gender (passing) thats not being trans.
also, gender euphoria is the opposite side of the coin to dysphoria. its the alleviation of dysphoria. if you care about gender euphoria enough to deal with the consequences of being trans in the world we exist in, and/or undergo medical procedures, i 100% believe u experience dysphoria. but unfortunately inclus tend to boil down dysphoria into self hatred, hating your body, or hating parts of yourself. that is absolutely not the only way dysphoria is experienced and it causes people to not understand theyre dysphoric (i did a video on this and got a plethora of comment basically going "oh shit i do actually have dysphoria ig") and regarding the voice example, while i dont think voice dysphoria is some magical qualifier of being trans and im sure theres ppl without it, you can like one aspect about something and dislike others. i actually liked my voice pre T in the sense that my boyfriend at the time was a theatre kid and basically gave me voice lessons and i loved how i sang, but it also made me uncomfortable and on edge that in lther contexts id be seen as male till i opened my mouth. its not all hate or all love all the time, you can have mixxed feelings kf things outside those two emotions.
i think in an ideal world anyone should be able to transition weather theyre transsexual or not, im all for bpdy modification, its your body do what ever you want. but we dont live in an ideal world, we live in a world with months to years long wait lists for consultations let alone surgeries, where these medications and surgeries are veiwed as cosmetic by many insurance providers contrary to evidence. for no other medication or procedure would we say people who just want something, even if genuinely would make them happy, should be placed as equal priority to those with a medical need for it. especially not when doctors who provide those services are limited and have long wait lists, and insurance already veiws them as cosmetic and nkt nessasry treatment.
@@boringnoninterestingname65 This is how I feel about it. I don’t really see how you can meet a trans person (or “cis person who is just confused”) who is perfectly happy with any medical and social transition they have gone through because it has helped them feel truly comfortable with themselves but who simply doesn’t feel dysphoria/feel it the way you as an outsider want them to and come to the conclusion that they are the problem and not you.
It is a relief to hear that seemingly a lot a transmeds are accepting of nonbinary people and that doing basically a reverse transvestigaton (as op said in the video) is not productive and will basically just lead to harm for everyone involved. I hope that this sort of sentiment is extended to binary trans people who don’t have dysphoria (/haven’t sufficiently “proved” to the nearest transmed that they have it). Policing what people are allowed to do with their bodies and how they refer to themselves because you don’t understand it doesn’t have the best track record as far as community health goes.
@@godlesssnowshoe Didn’t see your comment! I’ve always thought that dysphoria=hating your body was a transmed idea. It’s basically “Hey, look how much I hate my body for what puberty did! Look how miserable I am, that means I am trans! It is the very core of transness.” And that a more inclusive view of it is that you don’t need to hate yourself. Sometimes you would just rather your body looked a different way and for people to perceive you a certain way and that is okay and you might even be trans, but you don’t need to miserable all the time and hate every part of yourself to be trans or be “worthy” of gender affirming care.
@@dragonfly5835 i mean i think thats part of the problem is people just assume thats what transmeds think, when its really because (imo) most people refuse to actually speak to us.
so the narrative just gets passed around from inside inclus communities with very few people stopping to go "wait maybe i should actually ask what they believe" and even when people do, other inclus will say its defending transphobia or the person is secretly transmed for any attempt to solve the problem.
inclus "posion the well" a lot- i dont think its ALWAYS intentional but either
1. someone sees a really extreamist transmed and assumes were all like that then shares it around, then everyone thinks were evil or is scared of us so that misinformtion never gets challenged (we actually have a name for more extreame people, radmed, because most of us dont agree with them)
or 2. someone does intentionally poision the well and dramatasizes things to make us look worse, in order to scare people away from the possibility of hearing other ideas. because their OWN reasons for holding the beliefs they do is fragile and might be challenged by outside perspectives.
and then the well has in fact been poisioned, so theres no attempt to consider what we say or even still disagree but get an accurate understanding and then go "oh okay they dont think what i thought they did, but i still disagree".
they now see us as evil and/or scary so theres no opportunity for anyone to seek out accurate infromation, and on the rare occasion they do, the social pressure prevents anyone from sharing it because they will be lumped into the group being demonized.
gender dysphoria is the, acording to the diagnositic criteria, unease, distress, or discomfort. that can manifest in a lot of ways that arent self hatred. dissosiation, denial, internalizing issues or feelings, social withdawl, anxeity, etc.
it CAN be hating your body, but it can also be kinda mentally tapping out when misgendered or forced into a situation where youre seen as your birth sex, it can be feeling like your body dosent belong to you, it can be anxiety that you may or may not be aware is tied to gender, it can be a feeling of restlessness about your gender or gender presentation, it can become other types of body dysmorphia, it can be a lot of things.
people dont all present the same symptom in the same way, just how a person with quiet BPD may be a push over because of the same fear of abandonment that causes a person with impuslive BPD to become overlly reactive and defensive. polar opposite presentation, same symptom.
(i have impuslive bpd and my bf has quiet so thats my go-to example sorry lol)
it IS inherintly distressing, but distress does not equate self hatred nor like all encompassing agony. and it also dosent have to equate to hating everything assosiated with your birth sex.
imo euphoria is the allivation of dysphoria people didnt know was dysphoria. you get so used to being in a state where you dissasoaite from your body or tune things out to where its just normal. you dont even realize its an issue. then suddenly that feeling is gone and youre happy, you feel good and present. (or any other varraition of this)
sorry this is very long lol- it just really frustrates me that people assume the "dysphoria is agonizing self hatred" thing is a transmed idea, because its not, its an idea made to demonize people with differing opinions and prevent others from ever considering or speaking to transmeds, bc its seen as a gate way drug into becoming a terf or a trump supporter. /nm
@@dragonfly5835 i for some reason cannot see the comment ur replying to ack 😭 i dont think most transmeds (that i know anyway and i have a decent sized transmed server) really reverse trasvesitgate binary trans people either- at least not anyone i know.
there are absoutly people that i see say certian things (like someone saying theyre ftm and they actually love showing off their chest, or they like being called she/her etc) and ill be fully honest, i mentally am like "nope absoutly not yikes" but that is very much an "inside thought" type thing.
i dont want to be friends with people like that, nor do i want to engage in trans related discussion with them, but im not gonna say a single word about that to them or say it at all except maybe in my own house to my boyfriend. which is why i generally talk about these topics in a broad sense, on my own platform where people have to choose to interact with it. not to individuals, and not on other people's accounts.
i dont have to agree people like that are trans to treat them respectfully, use their correct pronouns, etc. my "inside thought" dosent translate in to thinking its appropiate to go up to people like that and say rude things to them or misgender them. i will simply avoid being around people like that, and if i cant, just be normal and co-exist w/o any kind of attempt to form a closer realtionship. they probably wouldnt like me and i probably wouldnt like them, so i keep my distance and just. be normal?
I love this, I've actually been taking polls on the same subreddit that I plan to post a video on soon. This opened my eyes a lot to the vitriolic ways I've engaged with anti-nb and nb skeptic people in some ways, though I find it interesting how when a binary person hosts these discussions they end up more civil than when a nonbinary person does. I appreciate the summary of perspectives posted here! It's very helpful for visualizing the distinct schools of thought within the community!
I settled with nonbinary because it helps others to have something to label me as. I believe we are limiting ourselves in our own gender expression by basing it of societal structures that don't tend to align with each other throughout different cultures and history. That being said i still experience dysphoria, but it doesn't stem from the want to be a woman, rather I know what's attractive to me and how i can make my body more aligned to that. We shouldn't limit ourselves to frameworks that are clearly dysfunctional, we should be free to express and pursue whatever we need to be our true selves.
gender is not just social construct, gender roles/expectations/norms etc are social constructs. im not a man because i have short hair or wear pants or like hockey, but because of the way my brain developed and functionings affecting my self perception of my own sex characteristics
@@godlesssnowshoe Do you have a video where you go more in-depth on this? I'm doing research about gender, and this makes the most sense to me; I'd love to hear more.
@@misterfishbowl not on this exclusively i dong think, at least not one that's not old and poor quality 😅 I kinda discuss it in the context of other topics usually but I've been meaning to eventually just make a full video dedicated to that topic!
This is why I look forward for when LGBT topics and science are taught in sex ed. (If that happens, maybe in 100 years lol)
We will then be able to give young adults the facts and science behind gender theory. No more lowkey grooming online and misinformation that takes up all the "safe spaces" in our community
I am nonbinary but i do use transmasc as a sub gender identity because just using the nonbinary label dose not feel enough to me. And I only use the transmasc part around other trans people because the label transmasc is not a commonly known label. Another thing to add your label can change over time and that's fine also, being nonbinary has nothing to do with how you dress, act or sound. You are nonbinary if you want to be no matter what! 💛🤍💜🖤
If I could like this video twice I would.
Even if gender is binary and dysphoria is neurological our understanding of ourselves is shaped by personality and environment. I think that some(most?) NB people are trans.
The term "nonbinary" itself I feel gives a lot of people a false trinary where they think nonbinary is this specific thing very separate from male/female when in actuality there can be overlap. That's why I really like the terminology of duosex & nullsex dysphoria patterns that makes it a lot more self-explanatory.
I also like to read about genderfluid dysphoria patterns, since virtually all discussing of genderfluidity comes off as about freedom of gender expression and nonconformity, but I am certain there have to be people out there whose actual gender is fluid, not just presentation.
This video feels like someone trying to explain why people feel "naturally self segregate" is a proper argument as a means to avoid the history of racism. Like for sure, using labels that represent the natural world in order to help us identify issues is good. But /why/ we describe a topic as real/natural can be based more on social expectations rather than what is actually present in reality. Like it's true people self segregate in our current society but much of that segregation is tied to past laws and traditions, not that people actually self segregate to that level when given the chance. However since our society does give more easy options to segregate than integrate, being "neutral" or "only basing x on what's real" is 99% of the time is just following society's wrong standards or slightly remixing those wrong standards. So if someone said "I'm agnostic about race mixing because the one drop rule proves you to be x" then you can clearly tell they're not agnostic, they just have an unreasonable bar of proof required while still being ok with the harm resulting from "waiting for proof" but are too shy/"polite" to stand by their logic.
So the transmed position can try to be non-hateful as much as it wants. The results that come from transmed beliefs being propagated through the game of telephone will more often result in a blaire whites or eugenicist rather than actually solving people's underlying issues around gender. The debate you're describing is one that's already breached off from the main tree trunk and understanding that branch requires ignoring the rest of the tree trunk above
i dont really think comparing it to that is very reasonable tbh. especially considering the last paragraph being largely untrue when very few transmeds like or agree with people like blair, and she is not a transmed in her beliefs nor has she called herself one/ interacted with our community. inlcusionist ideas that gender is nothing but a social construct and dosent exist is just as much its own branch as transmedicalism, if anything the "trunk" is just "sex does not equal gender". inclus ideas very easily horseshoe them selves into coming to the same conclusion as terfs if you follow the argument to its end.
transness also actually has a solid basis in biology- every time someone tries to do "race science" its just finding a reason someone is lesser or more than someone else and its complete pseudoscience. and even in those contexts its not trying to explain why or if at all certain races exist (which is done through evolutionary biology which is is real science. and does not relate to social aspects/ history beyond how and when humans migrated to certain areas)
someone saying "i dunno if this thing exists" is pretty much the definition of agnostic. lack of knowledge. a-gnostic. its not an unreasonable ammount of evidence to say youd want the same studies done about binary trans people to be done regarding nb people. its a consistent and previously met standard. theres not "harm" from holding all your beliefs to the same standard of evidence, especially considering the studies regarding binary people are from universities and medical institutions who have ethics boards and essentially equate to getting an MRI or FMRI but letting people use the data from it.
being respectful of what others wish to be called while refusing to take a hard stance due to lack of knowledge is not being "too polite to stand by their logic" its just being a decent person. i stand by my logic on religion but i dont tell people to theyre face everything wrong with the bible when someone talks about their pastor or church. i just nod and move on. because sure i think theyre wrong but its needlessly rude. and being unsure due to lack of evidence does not equate to being against something. itd be more harmful for someone unsure what their stance is to assume a negative and disrepect someone, then be wrong, than to just nod along while being unsure.
theres nothing harmful about wanting evidence before you believe something. especially not when that exact standard of evidence has been met on essentially a different niche of the same topic. and saying inclus arguing gender has no relation to biology and is just a made up social idea CERTAINLY isnt solving any problems around gender, its shoving them under the bed to collect dust.
@@godlesssnowshoe That's why I said "game of telephone". Hobbyist transmed folk may have more nuances but the average person is not going that deep into gender. They'll take other general information, which from my experiences tends to be more like the example I gave. People learning gender is a social construct tends to work out better even when the game of telephone happens. Cause let's be real, people also aren't medical doctors who understand how the human body works on a practical level. The average person knows the high level view of how the body functions and will base responses off that abstraction. You can say that's wrong but it's most certainly not any kin of transmedicalism.
Tracing the linage of a person and putting a label to that is a more reasonable version of how race can work, even if race is just a social construct. The linage of a kin is real and science, it's certain expectations we have that makes figuring said linage harmful. Same for gender/sex/brain development, it's a material thing humans used as a means to create social expectations. Like you can't say there's no evidence that a group of humans have ancestors that correlate to previous humans from wherever those specific humans lived before and acclimated to said locations, denying that would be silly. Our modern sciences made real branches that helped people because we dropped the pseudoscience portions of those studies. In my opinion, the transmed talks are also, as another example, like religious talks in that in order to discuss the transmed topic you have to take on beliefs one does not actually hold because fundamentally the argument is not one of mutual information exchange but transmeds requiring an acceptance of evidence that isn't actually beneficial aka, a normie turns into a "polite" blaire white more often than not.
If taking at face value, yes not knowing is someone being agnostic. However, if you consider things like the southern strategy, that notion becomes fuzzier. Cause the person themselves may not know but the information/ideology clearly does so if pointed out that type of person tends to freeze and deflect because they would have to accept an uncomfortable truth to their logic. A way to get around that is just by stating willful deliberate agnosticism. For sure do the studies, studies good, but rule 1 of any study that any college should teach is that biases always occur. Why you pick a study or how you study anything is in it of itself a question to be asked so you know what biases are present. When it's not asked, a lot of harm can be done like the "respect" being to act nice to someone rather than actually being nice to someone. You are not directly mean to religious folks in your religion videos, but the hostile reaction you get sometimes by talking negatively about religion is because you are being disrespectful to the standards of the religion person. You're just being nice about it. If someone will say someone's pronoun only because they don't want to create direct conflict but will vote for certain folks or fund certain studies that harm those same people, then it's not actual respect and is when you pair that with the "Idk" it's also not taking a real stance for why a person believes in their beliefs.
IT'S DEFENTILY A BETTER OUTCOME, but it's still not a good outcome. Just accidental harm reduction. Also your videos are good, you do give evidence. But that evidence is still formed around a bias which is why there can be so much disagreement of what "standard evidence" means. For example: I didn't say gender has no relation to biology, I said it was a social construct and social constructs are made up of relationships to the real world but abstracted in different ways. Which hopefully you can see is more nuanced that what you're portraying at that comment there. But that's just me, I'll eventually be making videos as to why transmeds is a bad way to go about stuff so we'll see how that goes!
This is an interesting video. Thanks for doing the poll and presenting the range of opinions.
Personally I think the neurological model for gender, while I agree with it to some extent, I think it's only 1 piece of a much more complex puzzle.
Even if the social aspect can't change your neurological gender, what it can do is affect the way it presents / observed / measured.
And unless we have a perfect brain scanner (and take a moment to think, what would you do if one existed and it misgendered you?), all we can go on is what we observe, not what's actually there.
I would argue, while there is value in doing more scientific research into brain neurologoly of transness, it's not very useful when it comes to how one views themselves.
One's social identity may or may not perfectly align with neurology (and of course without the 100% perfect brain scanner we have no way of knowing). And when it comes to interaction with others, only the social identity is relevant.
Even though for a lot of trans people, dysphoria is innate, static and fixed... I don't think it is always that simple. Especially as dysphoria is not a monolith.
This is why I'm not a transmed myself, combined with the fact I have an experience not fitting neatly into any box.
As you quite rightly point out, non-binary does offer a lot for oneself to explore their gender (whether or not they actually are non-binary) and allows a high degree of non-specificity... which is important when your (or should I say my own) experience doesn't fit neatly into boxes.
One thing you mentioned was "apathy about birth sex". And you claimed no difference from being cis. I personally don't share that belief.
I personally think apathy could be both neurologically cis and could also be neurologically trans. But again we don't know without the perfect brain scanner. It's just that, if one is apathetic, they are more likely to not question and therefore be socially cis (whether or not this is actually correct neurologically).
Also the apathy can vary on how connected they are with their body (which can also be fluid).
do you have a read on, in general, what transmeds feel about multiple sources for gender dysphoria? what i mean is, everywhere i look discussion on transness seems to stem from this question of what One Thing makes people trans. like this brain structure debate. I don't know why nobody seems to consider that gender dysphoria is real but can develop due to multiple reasons, but whichever it 'stems from' transitioning is likely an effective treatment. I think you underestimate the 'societal' piece of what gender entails. it's not only biology. as social creatures, our biology, especially brain-wise, develops based on our social conditions. I think assuming all cases of someone identifying as nonbinary while not having a 'nonbinary brain' is kind of short-sighted. sure, that could be a piece of the puzzle, but I also think some people choose to use they/them or he/they or whatever pronouns because it signifies to the people around them more 'correct' or 'comfortable' assumptions about the social role they play. It's a separate social gender structure than the average societal model of Man and Woman. This doubles for like, neopronouns. It's most certainly a way online cultures have developed different signifiers than those of the real world. I don't get it, but that's just because it isn't the social circle I inhabit.
this is coming from someone who would probably be considered a binary trans man who identifies solely with he/him because of what that means people assume about me. I don't like being called they/them. But like. They/them has different social meanings and associations to different people, that certainly affects their choice regarding what they 'Are', because you can't perceive yourself entirely separate from the lens of how other people see you and how other people see themselves. That is what defines social constructs- of which gender (not sex) is one. to be clear, this is a genuine comment out of the desire to share my opinion. im not trying to be a hater lmao. i welcome responses and i love discussing things.
IMO? It's *very likely* that non-binary exists, but not certain...yet. The intersex argument you mentioned is why I have this opinion; it's basically perfect.
This doesn't mean that a lot of people who identify as such aren't doing so based on a flawed constructionist conception of gender, though. I'll generally respect their pronouns (unless they're neopronouns but that's a different conversation), etc because yeah, it's weird and time-consuming to obsessively pick out which is "fake" and which is not
Genuine question from a trans person who does experience dysphoria but doesn’t describe themself as transmed, why do you think that gender dysphoria is necessary? I do get that discomfort from being referred to as one’s bio sex is generally a very common among trans folks, but I’ve also heard some people describe their trans-ness as a disconnect from their birth gender, rather than distinct discomfort from their bio sex. I mean this in the most polite, genuine way btw, not trying to like argue my opinion or anything, just curious :]
To me it's like saying why should someone with autism have to have autistic traits? Or why should someone who is gay need to like the same gender? It's because that makes them trans. People who say that they only have a disconnect and not dysphoria usually are either confusing gender idenity and gender stereotypes or they don't realise that they actually are experiencing dysphoria. Dysphoria doesn't have to be unbearable and many people disassociate to deal with it.
If possible, could you explain in further detail what you mean by somebody feeling "disconnected" from their AGAB? If you mean like disassociation, then that sounds like something caused by dysphoria that the person isn't aware of. But if you meant something else then I really don't know. If you don't know how else to describe it that's fine, I just want to make sure I understand what you mean.
@@Silly-The-Third ah, not entirely sure, I assume just not feeling like it fully fits I suppose? I dunno as I wouldn’t describe my experience with my gender as just a disconnect, so I can’t explain much, sorry ^^
Good I noticed this vid and checked it, I could have accidentally sub to a transmedicalist. Many people will probably just see the vids about Trump and religion and not notice this.
Hey as one of the transes I like your painting and voice so I completely agree
I thought transmed was the same as truscum except they differ on the nb topic. Like truscum believe nb is a gender and have dysphoria but transmeds believe nb isn’t a genders and doesn’t have dysphoria
nope. transmed are truscum both mean you need dysphoria to be trans. some people consider transmed to focus on the biological origin for transness and accessibility of transition care more, but generally theyre interchangeable
More people need to see this.
I don't quite understand nonbinary people that call themselves lesbian. Why not gynosexual?
eh, im not a big fan of the "non-binary lesbian" thing but i also understand the relectance to use labels like that. i personally would fit my own sexuality into "polyesxual" more accuratly but i really do not like microlables, so i say im bisexual or just "i dont like dicks" as my sexuality because it communicates it better.
imo at least to me, the purpose of labels is to be able to communicate something without having to explain it. if you say "lesbian" they know you like women. if you say "gynosexual" theres a solid chance that dosent mean anything to the person your talking to- i had to look it up to reply to this and i make content on this stuff lol.
ie, i say bisexual because they will know i like both genders, which is true. sure i would not date someone with a dick regardless of their AGAB or gender idenity, but if i say im bisexual that communicates more clearly "i am dating a man but also im attracted to women and NB people". instead of "im polysexual" and then "oh what does that mean". lol.
i do think it makes more sense for people who arent male presenting, or at least if they look more butch than like, idk look like a cis man with facial hair and pecks and shit lol, but at the end of the day while its off putting to me, i get why they do it lol.
that being said this line of reasoning does not apply to people saying theyre trans masc nb or trans men lol. atp you are aligning yourself with being a man, just say youre straight.
@@godlesssnowshoe Alright I understand, thanks
I mean there can be sapphic.
Premiere!!
the server link doesn't work :(
I’m genderfluid and I feel some dysphoria when I’m more masculine identifying so idk how I fit into this
Transmed is the belief that you have to feel dysphoria to be trans. I am a rather feminine AMAB, so I really only get dysphoria from hearing my pronouns on a she or they day.
Anyways, you count and you’re valid :>
@@Jjjjjjjjthe aww thank you Afab myself So it’s the opposite lol
Ello :D
This video and the comments make me wanna vote for Trump
@FlorieCanuck He’s still too easy on you guys though
@@theendof_alice why does this video and comments make you want to vote for a fascist?
@@Guts17-q4n He’s not a fascist lol. He sucks but at least he isn’t pro-rainbow like Kamala
bait spotted, opinion ignored
@@Silly-The-Third What is up with people calling everything they don’t agree with bait? Hello? Different opinions exist
that's a good video, i wasn't really aware of what transmed is before and i kinda had misconceptions on it. about my stance: i am non-binary not transmed (obviously) and i believe that non-binary is valid but there are some people who might actually be trans/cis, gender is a confusing thing and it's hard to understand sometimes, i do allign a bit more with my agab so i'm not really non-binary as middle of the road kinda person. i generally believe that non-binary identity could not be medical and that some non-binary people fall under the trans umbrella but some might not and the non-binary identity is a social thing and could also have a lot to do with your upbringing, i personally found my gender identity to be non-binary because i do not think i fullfill binary gender roles but i do not feel like transitioning to the other gender
also my partner is non-binary (agender)but transmasc so is kinda reverse of me, i don't know it's exact reasons on gender but i could ask him sometime
Hi, transmed here.
I do believe that nonbinary is a thing, I really do, and I think most radical right side people are kinda dumb when they refer to they/them as difficult to use. Its insanely easy, Ill never understand that.
I do say, though, nonbinary is its own thing. I dont see it as a transgender/transsexual thing. We experience two different types of discomfort. There is no ideal of passing through the world as nonbinary as there is for man or woman. Im not against the idea of nonbinary people fighting for what they believe in, but being transgender/transsexual comes strictly from gender dysphoria, and if you dont have that extreme discomfort with your sex and the drive to fix it, then there is no reason why you'd be trans to begin with. I can't turn off my discomfort and what almost feels like a disability to function through the world and it hurts seeing people who clearly can and parade what im struggling with as something beautiful, and even worst, speaking on behalf of people like me when we experience two completely different lives. I can not relate to the nonbinary experience.
I would be happy to see science on what nonbinary people feel, but without it, it's just a different way of gender expression with some possible irreversible cosmetic changes (hrt, surgery). I do believe nonbinary should be treated like trans in a way as we all should receive therapy before going through any form of permanent changes.
I hope nothing I've said has offended anyone, I believe almost everyone is beautiful and should live a life without harm to others, as long as you are happy. Im a transsexual man with a fluid expression, but Im very firm in binary. Im open to conversation and replies to what I have said, but I really wanted to give my thoughts on the conversation.
Hello! I’m a nonbinary person! And I would like to to say that (in my personal experience) that non-binary people can experience gender dysphoria, although there is probably many that don’t.
I do agree that the idea of passing as a NB person is a little different than a ftm/mtf person, but I feel that the ideal look (at least for me) is to look androgynous.
Thank you for reading this and I’m sorry if it’s worded terribly
i dont exactly agree with this, but none the less i think its an interesting comment!
@@Ra1npudd1e No you worded it fine! I appreciate the feedback. I just wonder if the gender dysphoria is more of a branch of the mental disorder specifically for non binary people since its something only some nb identified people experience. All transsexual people experience gender dysphoria, so what is the case of people who don't experience GD yet still identify as the opposite gender or nb? I believe its less of the person having a mental disorder and more of a social identity - something someone can just feel more comfortable choosing. I don't know why many people become upset when someone says that their experience isn't trans and is instead something else. I would be happy, knowing how gender dysphoria affects me, to hear my experience is something else, but not everyone wants to hear that. Sorry for being a yapper ;o;