This is so useful, thank you. I own both a Sur Ron and a Cake Kalk&. I am going to change my & 72t sprocket to the OR 80t which is the largest they have right now. Even though it will reduce my top speed for the street it will still be fast enough for the roads I travel. And since extending range is my goal I'm hoping this will work on the Cake. Thank you for this test. Sustained high speed (40+MPH) on the road to get to offroad areas really sucks down the juice. I have figured out a way to charge my bikes (both the SR and Cake) at level 2 EVSE charging stations which is a game changer for the dual sport Kalk&.
I put a monstrous 64 tooth on my Sur Ron X. On my 48 tooth, I got a top speed of 48 mph and on the 64 tooth, I get a top speed of 35 mph. The 64 tooth turns the bike into a great rocket for stop and go riding and carves up the hills of San Francisco. My body weight is 240 at 6 foot tall. I did notice that my battery seemed to be lasting longer. You have to use a gps app to see your actual mph. Cheers.
Hey great job exsplaining this subject. I put a 54 on mine now I ordered a 58 & there almost impossible to get , I’m waiting 6 weeks . Tires are the same , if there the hot tire to run on Sur Ron there outta stock also . Fuck If I knew then what I know now I would of gotten a 58 off the start . Gas vs elec there way different like you explained.
thank you for your work. this will help me and others a lot. the only think would be: does this also apply for doing long tours on easy terrain or street. I think of that: In a race like yours you have a lot of breaking and acceleration. With higher teeth on your sproket you need less power to accelerat. But when you have allready speed, you would need a higher rpm to maintain the speed. But of course you need also more power to stay at that rpm with less teeth. So the question is: Does the surron take more battery when opperated with higher rpm and need less "power" to hold the higher rpm, or does it need not so much when operating with lower rpm but need more "power"
Just a interesting thing though I do a lot of road riding (extended time at WOT) to get to my short off-road trails and I swapped to a 52t sprocket from the stock and I got significantly worse range just going up 4 teeth when I swapped back to stock sprocket I was getting home with 20% more battery than with my 52t sprocket, I wish I could use the 52t I love the torque and quality of the sprocket itself but I’m stuck running the stock one I guess.
want even MORE range? make the wheels lighter. make the wheel sprocket freewheel with a pawl clutch system like on a mtb. use slimmer but taller OD tires. tires with a more dualsporty tread style. set the suspension so the front is softer, but the rear is harder. try braking less. drop the seat lower, and the bars too. eliminate batery sag. go higher voltage for more eficiency. less start and stop less slow down and speed up = more range. yeah i think that abt covers it lol. you might wanna go dual belt too, to further make the bike lighter and the drivetrain too. but havent looked into that fully yet, i do know BMX chain/track bike chain would extend range for sure too, but that means you need to swam chains 50% faster
Obviously you are referring to competition use. What about road usage ? If I wasn't concerned about acceleration and just used the bike for commuting, would a smaller rear sprocket allow for greater range ?
Nice vid man! Good info for when mine arrives.. I’ll take off the regen and the brake assist so I can coast on the trails … Was that a Tim’s cup I see? Lol
I actually was planning on getting my hands on a 64 tooth to see what happens and get some numbers! Watched your videos back in the day while waiting for my Sur-ron to arrive. Thanks for uploading 😊
i understand what your saying but when you say i used 46 percent less battery most people interperet that as you used nearly half as much battery, but in reality you meant 46 percent out of 200 percent which is closer to like 23 percent less battery overall, you should do that conversion when making statements like 54t sprocket used 46% less battery.
top speed significantly decreased so depends what u use surron for tight trails big sprocket would help but flat ground cruising u will loose all top speed so up to you preference really
Did a race on stock 48 t and pushed 1 mile to the finish . change the chain sprocket and 16in wheel i hope the range improves . people saw the bike rip but sur run should have way better parts the bikes never look like stock all mod to get it right
Excellent info. While you are racing, that's exactly the terrain that I prefer to ride. I have a 58T on order. I subscribe and should know, but are you using other than stock controller or battery during these runs? It could affect the results?
This analogy is the same as gas cars with respect to LOAD...with the 48 T and doing the trails compared to the 58 T there was too much load on the motor, hence the lever was improved using the 58 T sprocket. My Fiat 500 with only 101 HP revs at 2500 at 60 where my Challenger is coasting at 1400..because the smaller less powerful motor would actually use more fuel if the gear were taller and the RPM's were lower because the load would be too much. Im waiting for my Sur ron and one of the first things ill be doing is making another 30 ah 60 volt pack run in parallel under the seat in a nice designed case with brackets and a thick gauge wire running to the original battery. Has to be running the SAME ah as the original or you get into issues with the bigger pack trying to charge the smaller when its out of juice..I see some people running a smaller 20 ah in parallel and that isnt a good idea. That would save you from switching out the packs but would add some weight carrying the additional pack, but for me it doesnt matter.
Hi mate! This is really useful Content! thank you very much! there is one question from my side: have you been faster with the big sprocket ? what was your difference in Racing time? Best regards THOMAS
That's weird cause on electric RC when you raise the pinion to a higher tooth gear which will give higher top end and less torque it makes the motor run hotter and uses more battery. Seems opposite here?
There are several different places you can buy sprockets for the bike. Luna Cycle, Sur-ronShop, Sur-ron UK or Sur-ronUSA. I personally went with Luna because they are quick and trust Worthy
Do you have the stats to compare your average lap times with each sprocket? It's well known that top speed is reduced, but your lap times would give a great comparison for overall impact of sprocket changes for trail riding.
You're thinking if it was a smaller rear sprocket. Bigger rear sprocket = more torque. Bigger front sprocket = higher top speed. Luna says 58t gives 38mph top speed with %20 torque increase.
Based on this comment, I am wondering if people read the handlebar readouts after changing sprockets -- not realizing that reading is now incorrect. I had a friend argue with me that since his speedometer goes off the transmission, changing tire diameter didn't affect his speedometer. :)
Closely. I took away 20% of my top speed and added acceleration speed by about 20% as well. However, as far as range goes, it actually adding about 25% to it's range per battery.
@@eigil7712 If your just using for road use, I almost wouldnt worry about the range to much. Yes the larger sprocket would help, but just with the sock sprocket (48t) I've gotten 50+ miles on a charge just cruising
so wouldn't 33% left of 200% mean that you used about 15% less battery with the 52 tooth sprocket ??? ... per cent meaning "out of 100" and all (it's a math thing)
@@leetjohnson I cruise at 32 mph with my 42 tooth sprocket. Do you think I will get better range if I cruise at the same speed with the stock 48 tooth sprocket?
@@viggmania5916 I doubt it....unless there are hills to strain the motor with taller gearing. Shorter gears are more efficient and much more torque, better off the line....until you reach max motor speed or are cruising at higher speeds and rpm, then the taller gears are more efficient.
its accordint to speed u would like to go, if stay in a sweet spot u gona win some more range. Btw should admit in trail u dont do 50+mph as at straight roads , and as well uphills defiinetly make a corrections on how much power Emotor need.
What this shows is that your bike's power system is overloaded with the stock gearing, and that is ruining the efficiency. If the rider was 20lbs lighter the results would not be the same.
@@electricisbetter oh hell no, your one of the smaller western riders, but I think the average chinadude is like 5'2" 125lbs, the bike wasn't designed for larger.
@@electricisbetterwell it does in a straight line for what you are using it for maybe it does actually help but i have seen multiple test videos that show in a straight line the 48 accelerats faster that the 58 and the 48 has a higher top speed of about 5-8 mph but in tight turn and off road probably dosent affect it as much
Hey there, I’m surprised that in the test you described the 48 tooth accelerated faster. I have rode dirt bikes for years. Generally speaking if you raise teeth in the back sprocket you increase torque. If you decrease the rear sprocket you would gain top speed. If you have a smaller front sprocket you increase torque and if you add teeth you will increase top speed. Maybe it’s the electric drive is totally different. Anyway thx for all the videos. I would like to buy one soon. Curious what the realistic range is in a trail with elevation up and down. Does it actually have power to climb up a steep hill? Thank you
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
What ur basically doing is reducing phase amps, which reduces heat loss and stress and field weakening
Can you tell us more about your buddy's mx Sur Ron? I'm sure more than I would like to see more of it.
Man your buddy’s sur Ron looks so cool, Could you please do a video of it and all the other parts that he has upgraded
This is so useful, thank you. I own both a Sur Ron and a Cake Kalk&. I am going to change my & 72t sprocket to the OR 80t which is the largest they have right now. Even though it will reduce my top speed for the street it will still be fast enough for the roads I travel. And since extending range is my goal I'm hoping this will work on the Cake. Thank you for this test. Sustained high speed (40+MPH) on the road to get to offroad areas really sucks down the juice. I have figured out a way to charge my bikes (both the SR and Cake) at level 2 EVSE charging stations which is a game changer for the dual sport Kalk&.
Look into chibatteries they have a 60v 60ah battery ppl are getting 100mile range
I need a rear dual sprocket. 68t for torque riding under 20mph. And a 28t sprocket for the highway to keep up with the 80mph speed limit.
I put a monstrous 64 tooth on my Sur Ron X. On my 48 tooth, I got a top speed of 48 mph and on the 64 tooth, I get a top speed of 35 mph. The 64 tooth turns the bike into a great rocket for stop and go riding and carves up the hills of San Francisco. My body weight is 240 at 6 foot tall. I did notice that my battery seemed to be lasting longer. You have to use a gps app to see your actual mph. Cheers.
Bro thnx for sharing the info🤗
Great video man. Where can I find videos of your boy Shneed? I'd love to see his set up.
Great stuff! I would really like to see some acceleration figures using different sprockets. I would expect a significant difference.
Agreed. There are lots of ways to reduce energy usage, but most (or all) come at a cost....
@Jericho Karter No, nobody gives a shit. I see you and your accomplice/alias started your channels on the same day, a month ago. Imagine that.
Hey great job exsplaining this subject. I put a 54 on mine now I ordered a 58 & there almost impossible to get , I’m waiting 6 weeks . Tires are the same , if there the hot tire to run on Sur Ron there outta stock also . Fuck If I knew then what I know now I would of gotten a 58 off the start . Gas vs elec there way different like you explained.
thank you for your work. this will help me and others a lot. the only think would be: does this also apply for doing long tours on easy terrain or street. I think of that: In a race like yours you have a lot of breaking and acceleration. With higher teeth on your sproket you need less power to accelerat. But when you have allready speed, you would need a higher rpm to maintain the speed. But of course you need also more power to stay at that rpm with less teeth. So the question is: Does the surron take more battery when opperated with higher rpm and need less "power" to hold the higher rpm, or does it need not so much when operating with lower rpm but need more "power"
Great useful video, thanks for the info. It's a no-brainer to change to 58T...or even more.
Just a interesting thing though I do a lot of road riding (extended time at WOT) to get to my short off-road trails and I swapped to a 52t sprocket from the stock and I got significantly worse range just going up 4 teeth when I swapped back to stock sprocket I was getting home with 20% more battery than with my 52t sprocket, I wish I could use the 52t I love the torque and quality of the sprocket itself but I’m stuck running the stock one I guess.
Thanks, this is exactly what I was wondering. I wouldn't mind more range on the trails, but not if it's going to reduce my street riding range!
This very logical, I dint get that it works the other way!
0:39 cool build! Where can i read about this red surron?
I wonder what the range difference is on a flat paved road would be, staying at a cruising speed of 25-35mph.
Great real world test, Thanks.
Could you highlight your friends bike in a video? I really like his seat mods! I'm racing hare scrambles in Colorado this year cuz of you!
Where can I find these kinds of race events?
On my motorbike a larger rear sprocket made my fuel economy worse. This is great info though as I'm looking for longer range e-adventuring.
Great review 🙏
want even MORE range?
make the wheels lighter.
make the wheel sprocket freewheel with a pawl clutch system like on a mtb.
use slimmer but taller OD tires.
tires with a more dualsporty tread style.
set the suspension so the front is softer, but the rear is harder.
try braking less.
drop the seat lower, and the bars too.
eliminate batery sag.
go higher voltage for more eficiency.
less start and stop less slow down and speed up = more range.
yeah i think that abt covers it lol. you might wanna go dual belt too, to further make the bike lighter and the drivetrain too. but havent looked into that fully yet, i do know BMX chain/track bike chain would extend range for sure too, but that means you need to swam chains 50% faster
Someone needs to invent a derailer and multi gear cog for the Surron. Even if it’s only a 2 speed setup.
This would be so beneficial
You are absolutely right.
Same as a motorcycle, more teeth accelerates faster, less strain on engine, lower top speed. So less strain means less current draw from battery.
More torque as well
Thanks, that's some very useful info.
Impressive! How about the riding? More snappy? Faster out of corners? Better laptimes?
Obviously you are referring to competition use. What about road usage ? If I wasn't concerned about acceleration and just used the bike for commuting, would a smaller rear sprocket allow for greater range ?
A smaller rear sprocket would increase top speed but decrease torque. You would end up losing range if you have to stop and accelerate often.
Yes.
Nice vid man! Good info for when mine arrives.. I’ll take off the regen and the brake assist so I can coast on the trails … Was that a Tim’s cup I see? Lol
Great information. Subscribed 🤙🏽
Do you want to try a 64 tooth? It might be even better. It is my personal favorite. I will ship you one from Sur-ron USA
I actually was planning on getting my hands on a 64 tooth to see what happens and get some numbers! Watched your videos back in the day while waiting for my Sur-ron to arrive. Thanks for uploading 😊
@@electricisbetter If you message me on my website with your name I will get you one to test.
@@kimreeg1 sounds great. I'll be sure to give you guys credit! Appreciate it
Email sent
Sounds counterintuitive to lower your gear ratio and increase your range. But I guess it lets the motor work in a more efficient RPM range.
Could you tell us about your friends mx sur-Ron or link a RUclips video on the upgraded etc. I was wondering what he did to it?
interesting what about lap times where you faster on the 58T as well?
i understand what your saying but when you say i used 46 percent less battery most people interperet that as you used nearly half as much battery, but in reality you meant 46 percent out of 200 percent which is closer to like 23 percent less battery overall, you should do that conversion when making statements like 54t sprocket used 46% less battery.
OK good for increased distance but what was the time difference on laps on each sprockets
What seat is your buddy using looks more comfy than the standard seat.
top speed significantly decreased so depends what u use surron for tight trails big sprocket would help but flat ground cruising u will loose all top speed so up to you preference really
Did a race on stock 48 t and pushed 1 mile to the finish . change the chain sprocket and 16in wheel i hope the range improves . people saw the bike rip but sur run should have way better parts the bikes never look like stock all mod to get it right
Did you make a comparison of your laps time?
sweet...... i cant wait till they start makin options 4 us all belt drive guys 2 ...lol
They do...
@@bobbysakaki5989 look it up. There's only one option for ratio with belt drive
Excellent info. While you are racing, that's exactly the terrain that I prefer to ride. I have a 58T on order. I subscribe and should know, but are you using other than stock controller or battery during these runs? It could affect the results?
This analogy is the same as gas cars with respect to LOAD...with the 48 T and doing the trails compared to the 58 T there was too much load on the motor, hence the lever was improved using the 58 T sprocket. My Fiat 500 with only 101 HP revs at 2500 at 60 where my Challenger is coasting at 1400..because the smaller less powerful motor would actually use more fuel if the gear were taller and the RPM's were lower because the load would be too much. Im waiting for my Sur ron and one of the first things ill be doing is making another 30 ah 60 volt pack run in parallel under the seat in a nice designed case with brackets and a thick gauge wire running to the original battery. Has to be running the SAME ah as the original or you get into issues with the bigger pack trying to charge the smaller when its out of juice..I see some people running a smaller 20 ah in parallel and that isnt a good idea. That would save you from switching out the packs but would add some weight carrying the additional pack, but for me it doesnt matter.
Hi mate! This is really useful Content! thank you very much! there is one question from my side: have you been faster with the big sprocket ? what was your difference in Racing time? Best regards THOMAS
I didn't record the lap times, but I'd say yes. Being able to accelerate faster It was more useful than top speed.
@@electricisbetter thanks for the answer. When we do Racing in Austria, we compare our lap times 😆😅
thats a big difference! thanks man!
That's weird cause on electric RC when you raise the pinion to a higher tooth gear which will give higher top end and less torque it makes the motor run hotter and uses more battery. Seems opposite here?
You are referring to the motor's pinion. He is referring to the rear wheel sprocket.
Very informative video. Thank you
Will different size/amount of teeth increase climbing abilities ie steep hills if so do you have recommendation?
How wouldn't it be so ? Bigger sprocket = more torque ...
Nice video btw. but can u tell me how your frend made the sur-run look like a dirkt bike ?
Not sure 🤔
Is Luna Cycles the best way to get one of these? If I wanted to save some money, is there a better option?
There are several different places you can buy sprockets for the bike. Luna Cycle, Sur-ronShop, Sur-ron UK or Sur-ronUSA. I personally went with Luna because they are quick and trust Worthy
Thank you 🏁
Do you have the stats to compare your average lap times with each sprocket? It's well known that top speed is reduced, but your lap times would give a great comparison for overall impact of sprocket changes for trail riding.
I had them at the end of the races, but I didn't hold on to them. Should have. If I m remembering, they were about the same with each sprocket.
How did your friend retrofit those Honda plastics on it?
Not sure 🤔
Yes we'd all like to know more about his retrofit.
Does the change in bigger sprocket gain range but decrease speed? 🤔
Yes
What would happen if u had a gearbox then
Then you could shift
What is schneeds channel?
+1
If you get more teeth on a sprocket will it make you have more torque or less?
More teeth = more torque
Bruhh thats insane
Great video
Bro you can get 48mph but it takes more time to reach that speed🤗
You're thinking if it was a smaller rear sprocket. Bigger rear sprocket = more torque. Bigger front sprocket = higher top speed. Luna says 58t gives 38mph top speed with %20 torque increase.
Nope, the rev is limited, so you want get same top speed with a 60t over a 42t 52t 54t etc ...
Based on this comment, I am wondering if people read the handlebar readouts after changing sprockets -- not realizing that reading is now incorrect. I had a friend argue with me that since his speedometer goes off the transmission, changing tire diameter didn't affect his speedometer. :)
So it seems to be a similar percentage increase in range to tooth count
Closely. I took away 20% of my top speed and added acceleration speed by about 20% as well. However, as far as range goes, it actually adding about 25% to it's range per battery.
Well done :)
Does your buddy have a channel?
He does not ☹️
@@electricisbetter Gotcha. Where did that footage come from? Looks like he's trying to show off his stuff!
@@ericmcintire7418 facebook. Join the Surron owners group! He's in there alot!
@@electricisbetter Which Facebook group is it? I'd love to see more info on his build
@@hudsonparker1555 surron owners group official is the name
so how many teeth should i get if i just want as long range as possible?
64t is a pretty big one. I'm getting one soon here, but I haven't tested a range for it yet. But it should be longer than the 58t
@@electricisbetter okay thanks alot, are there are any other upgrades you recommend for more range, i will be using the bike only for road use
@@eigil7712 If your just using for road use, I almost wouldnt worry about the range to much. Yes the larger sprocket would help, but just with the sock sprocket (48t) I've gotten 50+ miles on a charge just cruising
@@electricisbetter what speed would u say u averaged when u get 50 miles?
so wouldn't 33% left of 200% mean that you used about 15% less battery with the 52 tooth sprocket ???
... per cent meaning "out of 100" and all (it's a math thing)
What about on the road? Does it still extend range?
Yes
No, not at higher speeds. You will get less range.
@@leetjohnson I cruise at 32 mph with my 42 tooth sprocket. Do you think I will get better range if I cruise at the same speed with the stock 48 tooth sprocket?
@@viggmania5916 I doubt it....unless there are hills to strain the motor with taller gearing. Shorter gears are more efficient and much more torque, better off the line....until you reach max motor speed or are cruising at higher speeds and rpm, then the taller gears are more efficient.
@@viggmania5916 Taller = less teeth
Shorter = more teeth
so witch one has longer range ?? 48
58th
its accordint to speed u would like to go, if stay in a sweet spot u gona win some more range. Btw should admit in trail u dont do 50+mph as at straight roads , and as well uphills defiinetly make a corrections on how much power Emotor need.
sounds like a transmission would help electric bikes be more efficient. I dont understand why they are not on most ebikes, to save cost?
Exactly... ruclips.net/video/zbBiMlinzlo/видео.html
why only 20 miles per battery??
He's pushing the bike as fast as he can -- and passing some gassers, I might add!
Hello friend more range now is more torque
I just want to see more pics and details on that Motocross bike at the beginning of the video.
What this shows is that your bike's power system is overloaded with the stock gearing, and that is ruining the efficiency.
If the rider was 20lbs lighter the results would not be the same.
You calling me fat?!
@@electricisbetter oh hell no, your one of the smaller western riders, but I think the average chinadude is like 5'2" 125lbs, the bike wasn't designed for larger.
@@xch3no2 yes I'm just goofing. Yes if course Itd have better range with a smaller rider.
Weight is a big factor. I'm 190lbs and the girls I ride with are 120lbs and they use much less battery.
I want to send you a 64 tooth but I don't know where to send it
Who are you with?
ive heard that putting the higher tooth sprocket greatly decreases ur acceleration and top speed tho
Depends on how many teeth you up it.
@@electricisbetterwell it does in a straight line for what you are using it for maybe it does actually help but i have seen multiple test videos that show in a straight line the 48 accelerats faster that the 58 and the 48 has a higher top speed of about 5-8 mph but in tight turn and off road probably dosent affect it as much
Hey there, I’m surprised that in the test you described the 48 tooth accelerated faster. I have rode dirt bikes for years. Generally speaking if you raise teeth in the back sprocket you increase torque. If you decrease the rear sprocket you would gain top speed. If you have a smaller front sprocket you increase torque and if you add teeth you will increase top speed. Maybe it’s the electric drive is totally different. Anyway thx for all the videos. I would like to buy one soon. Curious what the realistic range is in a trail with elevation up and down. Does it actually have power to climb up a steep hill? Thank you
@@p20dirtrider changing the rear sprocket will DROP the top speed. But at the same time, get you to accelerate faster
Sonic Riders how long could you ride it for if you were on the throttle pretty hard. Like that 4 lap race I watched?
20% vs 25% means 100% vs 125% = 25% more real range
What was an average speed in mph u did the lap? Where is sweet spot of speed in 58
58T tops at 39mph