Heroes 3 Tier List || Tier 7 Unit upgrades || Alex_The_Magician || Heroes 3 Creature Guide
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- Опубликовано: 17 апр 2021
- This video is another Heroes 3 Tier list, in which I rank tier 7 creature upgrades. Let me know what you think!
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Игры
This serie is really helpful to get a better understanding of the game! Thanks!
Glad to help!
gold dragon is super annoying in that they become immune to resurrect and they can still be imploded; at least with black you regret not being able to resurrect but you get to have full immunity
yep, gold dragons are also affected by titan's lighting bolt(spell from Titan's Thunder artifact).
Another downside is that you cant use Sacrifice to resurrect them. The "sacrifice" part of the spell is lvl 5, but the "resurrect" part is lvl 4, so you can sacrifice them to resurrect something else, but you cannot resurrect them, which is a shame for balance/strategy reasons. If you could resurrect them via Sacrifice spell it would balance they weakness that you can Implosion them, but not use the normal Resurrection spell on them. Since Magic Mirror is kinda shit, it just leaves them a target for Implosions/Titan's Thunder(rare) and no other way to buff them. I think they should fix that in HOTA since its an unofficial expansion made to balance and add to the main game without altering it too much. I will find that change quite refreshing tbh. Just my 2 cents.
@@stambe8605 Gold dragons an Black Dragons become balanced with orb of venerability, which nulify natural creature magic immunity. That orb is very handy in good hands(blinding or slowing magic immune dragons etc.)
Agreed. And as for first strike. Pegasi covers this. Gold dragon is an OK
Good video and nice explanations.
I didn't notice if you mentioned it but Titans + Golden Bow was the dream combo when I started playing the game.
Incredibly satisfying :)
Haspids increase all damage with revenge, and the scaling is more like, if they have taken 50% losses, they will deal 50% extra damage, so this matters allot, but only in the last fight usually.
Hey Alex, here's a suggestion : if you coach someone, and they are okay with it, record the coaching session and post it - I believe that seeing the 'common' mistakes live gives different insight into how we can improve, as well as observe different people's playstyles and breaking down the strengths and weaknesses. Why you got to disrespect my Archdevils man
Thanks! Good suggestion!
⁰00
These videos are really informative. Which is nice.
Glad you like them :)
Ancient behemoth really should be higher
Nearly double health and the 80% defense ignore is insane. Go from being a pretty slow & average unit to probably the scariest creature to get hit by in the game.
It is a good upgrade, but I definitely stand by my ranking of them, mainly because of their speed.
AB is not that great. Spell vulnerability disavnatage
@@brianmayabella5992 what spell vulnerability?
@@csarmii spell vulnerability or debuff. Behemoth can be affected by most spell. Even 1st level spell. As strong as they were in melee fight, they can be debuff.
@@brianmayabella5992 they can be anti magic'd
You forgot to mention titans have mind spell immunity, which is super duper important, but remembered that they hate black dragons lol
True, thanks for the correction!
Watched all of these its good that you explained your reasons usually quite nicely. I still think black dragons are lower as there is hardly ever need to get them in my games at least but maybe its good in JC I don't play that too much tho.
Thanks for watching, and for the feedback :)
Thanks! Enjoyed it. Also understand the black dragons bias, coming from homm2 32167 :-)
Would you have a link to that black dragon armageddon game please?
Keep it up.
I don't, it was on stream, but I wasn't affiliate then so It didn't get recorded, and I wasn't recording my streams back then unfortunately.
Nice breakdown. Now I know why I got rekt by Haspids against my friend.
Haspids are scary :)
The Titan/Black Dragon hate ability is a reference to heroes 2, where Titans and Black Dragons where rivals on being the best unit in the game. Both with their pros and cons. The only thing that can beat both of them, is a good old big snowball of skeletons. Yeah Necropolis and necromancy is just as busted in that game as in heroes 3 complete XD
So I like alot of your thoughts, but you ignore the Cost Improvement and how hard it is to get the building. Would be interessting to see a ranking that involves the downsides of Upgrading. =)
The upgrade tier lists that I did are based purely on how much of an improvement the upgraded version of the unit is over the unupgraded version. I believe I mentioned this in one of the videos. So cost and difficulty of building isn't considered, just how much better the upgraded unit is in terms of stats/hp/abilities.
I did do a tier 7 dwelling ranking where I do take into account factors like how easy/difficult they are to build.
I have a sweetspot for black dragons and titans aswell.. mostly because of heroes 2.
Same here!
titans\black dragons hate each other, they gain 50% more damage when they attack a blackdragon\titan, nothing amazing when it comes to ability, "since its kinda situational" but its a fun lore thing
i thinks its also a throwback to Heroes 2, where black dragon was the most powerful unit in the game and the only unit that could stand up to it was Titan
@@TheUrionak i think it comes from the Might and Magic franchise, where dragons hate giants vice verse.
My feeling in the game is, if my enemy has, say, a pack of upgraded 7 creatures , I have a lot of pressure. However if my enemy has a pack of ungraded level 7 creatures, I don’t worry about it at all. Of course, it doesn’t include ghost dragons and hydras.
I know you talk more about PVP, but Devils shine in custom single player scenarios vs AI. He can protect ammo cart and shooter power stack behind force field. He's speed is good, only what he need more damage output and health close to 250 hp.
Not specifically for protecting ammo carts but Archdevils are so easy to cheese the AI with in general
@@j.d.1291 i know, i just talk about their speed usefulness. Except Titan, you cant fit 2 hex unit with ammo cart.
Arch devils might even be the best or atleast among the best against AI because it is such a cheesy unit. Chaos hydra is also significantly better against AI than they are against human players.
what are Haspits? They are not in the normal Heroes 3 Complete game.. its a mod or something?
heroes.thelazy.net/index.php/Sea_Serpent_and_Haspid
They were added in horn of the abyss, which is an unofficial expansion, but the most widely played one today, you can get it for free if you have heroes 3 complete, just google download hota.
job done
Reminds me of Homm2 Titans are OP and black dragons OP
Well as far as the Upgrade goes, yes, but if we just rank upgraded tier 7 units, archangels would probably be the best. But in this video I wanted to highlight the IMPROVEMENT of the upgraded version over the non upgraded, and the titan upgrade is a ridiculous improvement over the giants.
Oh yeah I feel the same with Vampires also wolf raiders and master gremlins. Some units are trash before upgrade lol
Haspids are too fast for a huge fat snake, they should have 10 speed movement, they're already very strong
Red tires XD
timtan
tower kinda do be op doe
You didnt concider the price per unit and price to upgrade or the bonus per week for phoenix
No I didn't, this video is purely based on how much better the upgraded unit is over it's non upgraded version in terms of stats/abilities.
I love Black dragons and all that, however how are AA not on the top spot? they get 50% improvement both in att/deff and in speed. Yes they only get 25% increse in hp, but they also get a scalable ressurect ability. That is huge.
and the angels usual health is pretty stupid to begin with.
Yeah, their ranking is not so much a detriment to the archangels themselves, but a testament to how strong angels are, I just feel like the increase is not as strong as with Titans. Black dragons I suppose you could argue against, but Black dragons have always been my favorite units, ever since Heroes 2, so perhaps that influenced me to rank them higher.
@@alex_the_magician9483 its ok , they are my favourite unit too. But in heroes 2 the bone dragons were my favourite dragons , because they looked badass, easy to build and cheap as Well . But i can see the argument for Titans being best lvl 7 upgrade .
AA is insane but when you talk about improvement angel to aa is not that amazing. By that time you usually have res anyway the speed is great but i think alex ddint mention that they also become 2hex units which is usually a disadvantage over the angel 1 hex (easier to reach, can fire wall/force field as effectivly). Considering you deal with aa by implo most of teh time the 50 hp more is nothing compared to teh huge increase of polar bears or titans
@@alex_the_magician9483 Another thing that should be takken into consideration(maybe) is super late game scaleing. I mean in maps like Wayferer and such where unfortunately Both Gold and Black dragons have little to no flexibility in how they can be used, both in the hands of the player and in the hands of the AI. In the hands of the player it has little flexibility because you can't ressurect them or use terribly unfaire tactitcs , and they are also problematic in the hands of the Ai too because it requires the mapmaker to give the player orb of vulnerability in most cases.
Compare that to other lvl 7 units that do scale very well for such maps, such as Arch Angels, Titans, Behes, and Arch Devils(kinds).
That being said, there are maps where Dragons with immunities do scale probably better than the other lvl 7 units, and those are Huge maps with no movement spells, such as Town Portal , Fly and Dimension Door. For example, there is this map called "Barren Lands" and magic immune creatures with Arma spaming and magic dmg in general scale very very well because you rarely have the time to reinforce your heroes, because all of them are main heroes , so the only way to reinforce is to lose a battle and retreat to a castle with army ready to be takken.
Back when I played the game, I never recruited tier 7 units unless they were upgraded. Tier 7 out posts were the obvious exception.
cool
In my oppinion, behemoth should be ranked as A, because its attack are not weaker than both angel and phoenix
Hydras need some speed buff , they are unplayable almost , at least same as behemoth speed will be ok…..
Gotta say, respect big time for the channel but this particular ranking seems really off. Arch Angel is clearly top and I see the point on black dragons, but their build path sucks making them A tier at best. Gold dragons are terrible from a build path and the immunity aspect. Arch Devils have a clear utility that I'd argue is better than titans. Ancient Behemoths brawling and build path put them on par with phoenix as A tier. Just feels wrong but I dig your content.
I see your point, but for this particular ranking the build path is irrelevant. Here the only thing I'm ranking is how big of an IMPROVEMENT the upgrade is over the non upgraded unit. So while I agree that Archangels are the best upgraded tier 7 unit, when you look at the improvement over the angel, you only gain 50 hp, which is a 25% gain, while the titan actually doubles the HP over the giant.
Ahhh gotcha, that makes more sense and I totally missed that! Curious of your thoughts on if you would change anything on Level 7 via a mod. I always thought Hydras need a big buff because the chances of attacking 5 hexes against a human are basically zero. I'd want to add 2 speed and make them 22 attack and 30 def. Fits the theme of the town better.
@@blainethemono19 Sorry, missed this message somehow. Regarding changes, there are definitely some I'd make. Something to make skills like eagle eye less useless for example. On templates like jebus cross I'd get rid of quest artifacts and reduce the value of imp caches and mansions. And a bunch of other changes, but regarding any major ones like buffs to units I'm not sure if I'd touch anything cause while some factions could use a buff (inferno for example) I'm not sure of how to buff something that would still keep it balanced. Although the tower buff of adding lamps was a pretty good one.
So 50hp and one level of spell immunity = 4 tiers? Reds and greens are nearly identical, as best as I can tell.
Yep, being immune to all magic is huge, meaning black dragons can't get imploe'd, which makes them way better than golds in my book. I stand by my ranking.
@@alex_the_magician9483 Yeah, but immunity to everything but implosion isn't exactly peanuts. Blacks are def better, I'm mostly thinking you're underselling golds and that 4 tiers is too much.
COMMENT
Moral of this video: Ressurection, not that impressive!
:)
I dont like how you rank the unit base on its pure power instead of how it impacts on the game.
Ancient Behe is so wonderful. It's so easy to build, kinda cheap compare to AA or Titans. Best unit to fight the desert and Utopia. In JC or JO Ancient Behe is the most dominant choice of tier 7 upgrade.
i agree, Bears are powerful to cheese any tier 7 units blocking path to sand zone.
I think he is rating them not by how impactful it is. He rate them how much upgrade improve that unit.
Ancient are great but normal behemoths are also strong - they can be used in battle. Meanwhile giants are almost useless, titans are strong. The gap is greater with them than with behemoths.
@@niewpisze7493 he rank then basing on pvp matches, while in general every tier 7 is useful. Necro without Ghost Dragons would not be able to act fast, while hydra is typical tank unit. Bears are universal in both defense or charge attack. Sending Dragons in first turn is bad idea, as they will be smashed pretty hard.
He has a different tier 7 units in term of power vid if I am not wrong. This one is about how strong the upgrade is from non upgrade to upgrade.
@@clorkmagnus I know it's about the upgrade, but he ranked the tier list by how much stronger in term of pure power the upgrade is rather than how much more impactful the upgrade is in the gameplay. From Behe to A. Behe is so huge but easy to upgrade.
Guys listen to his words before you reply.
gold dragons better than arch devils.... that does not seem right. devils are so much better. you also forgot that titans have mind spell imunity witch makes them imune to blins berserk hypnotize etc spells
Devils even tho they dont have spell immunity and can be targeted by Implosion or meteor shower, you can still ressurect them, also expert anti magic make devils better then combined Gold and Black Dragons. Anti-Magic + force field favour Inferno Town. On Jebus Cross, it's easy to build devils + castle week 1.
This list is not for how strong or good the units themselves are but how much of an improvement the upgraded version is over the unupgraded one. For AD the improvement is 7/7 atk and def, 40 hp, 6 mp and an additional -1 to luck. For Gold dragons it is 9/9 atk/def, 6 mp, 70 health, and immunity to lvl 4 spells, which in my opinion is better than the AD. For titans I didn't forget, I just didn't mention it because it isn't an improvement - giants are also mind spell immune. Hope that makes sense.
@@alex_the_magician9483 still Gold dragons can be targeted by implosion and their dwelling is very expensive to build in town. Also without black orb you will not be able to recover their loses.
@@michazmuda1477 true, thats why i like black dragons more
I dont agree with the archdevil being so low, they have 17 speed when upgraded. You always 100% of the time get first turn.
Not to mention the rocket speed your hero gets if he has only archdevils at the start.
17 speed is very hard to beat, even with speed items and archangels or dragon flies.
Dude you messed them up abit. Not too much but the basic concept is all wrong. Black dragon is not S. I don't even think its A. Phoenix is S, archangel is S or A , archangel upgraded and the hit and run you think is soo good becomes 0, and it also becomes 0 against inferno archdevil and rampart. So S tear phoenix, archangel (both fast and strong, phoenixes strongest becouse of numbers). A tear for behemoth (in terms of power he could be S tear)and maybe titan(titan is strong but slow too). Blackdragon and devil in B tear. Theres that race thats new for me and no idea so i cant rank it. Archdevil you have to put much higher like B tear. Its 3rd fastest unit ingame and this counters hit and run tactics.
I think you misunderstand this ranking, I'm not ranking how good the unit itself is, but how much of an IMPROVEMENT the upgrade is over the regular unit.
@@alex_the_magician9483 Yes. The achdevil is way stronger and the phoenix is better than the black dragon in any possible way. Of yourse you are forced to count the numbers since phoenixes have twice the growth and are better even at hit and run tactics that won't even work in most cases as a decent player as it's easy to get a faster t7 unit from the map with diplomacy. Even without diplomacy Castle, rampart, conflux and inferno have faster t7 upgrades making them actually a mediocre unit. Most likely B tear for black dragon. S for Phoenix archangel titan. A for devil and behemoth. With S and A still debatable between theese 5. Behemoth could be S even if slow. The 80% reduction on defence on lategame with 30+ atack/Def heroes is very strong. It's the hardest hitting unit in the game against t7(or high Def targets)
I stopped the video after seeing ancient behemoths being put in B tier. The man didn't play the game lmao