Honestly the part about "human suffering" during wars and other conflicts is barely considered in alternate history. Thanks for taking it into account here!
Ian Fleming based double 07 off of people he met in British intelligence during his service in the second world war. Without war, James Bond wouldn't exist.
0:28 Fun fact, many people think this guy is an example of shell shock, but in reality his eyes look freaky just because blue eyes look scary in old cameras. This is a Canadian soldier who at the time was shot in the neck and was squatting in the trench for 8 hours waiting to be picked up by medical personnel. His facial expression comes from the disbelief of him actually surviving this long while having a bullet hole in his neck. All and all, he survived this encounter and survived ww1.
Pls make a full video, this scenario is so interesting! No arab revolt, Ottoman governors make their own states, WW1 ends in less than a year before america or many others have even joined, which means no self-determination stuff but also a much milder peace treaty No russian revolutions or civil war, there's no hitler (but probably still mussolini) and Germany, Austria-Hungary and Russia might survive and WW2 will be completely changed if it even happens at all! I love this scenario pls continue it!!
no arab revolts? that's not probable, considering they were already revolting way before ww1, and i'm pretty sure that the ottoman empire continuing the way it did before ww1 would have very, dire, side effects on the armenian populations of the empire
If the Entente actually sent significant troops to Serbia in early 1915. instead to Gallipoli, they could won the war. Austro-hungary was exposed, Bulgaria wouldn't even dare to join the war, no land connection with Turkey... the Entante wins in 1916/7. But Brits only wanted to prevent Russia to take the straits after the war.
I would very much have liked a full video, if this scenario's premise didn't seem so flawed. I cannot find any mention on the internet of a Greek proposal to the Entente for the Greek army to land at Gallipoli in 1914. The Venizelos foundation says the proposal was made on February the 16th 1915, and that it was made by Venizelos to the rest of the Greek government, not to the Entente. It also mentions that the King was opposed to this plan, and that Venizelos's government resigned five days later. The very few other sources I found in my, admittedly, not extensive search all agreed that any such discussions were made in 1915, and that the King was steadfast in his support of Greece's neutrality.
@@t-uxe5539 The Dutch independence failed, The Reformation failed, The Hambsburgs have a branch line that focus enterily on Spain while another keeps on The HRE, England get a Spanish Queen, Portugal remain within the Iberian Union till it gets reduced to the same status as Aragon. And this is it
Very great video. It feals like people are obsessed with making the worst possible timelines happen in alt history (myself not innocent to that). Feels like this video and some of your other videos of recent have pushed back against this. I think thats great
This video seems weird to me. I cannot find any mention on the internet of a Greek proposal to the Entente for the Greek army to land at Gallipoli in 1914. The Venizelos foundation says the proposal was made on February the 16th 1915, but it was made by Venizelos to the rest of the Greek government, not to the Entente. It also mentions that the King was opposed to this plan, and that Venizelos's government resigned five days later. The very few other source I found in my, admittedly, not extensive search all agreed that any such discussions were made in 1915, and that the King was steadfast in his support of Greece's neutrality. Can you, or any one in the comments, please help me find an internet source for a 1914 Greek proposal?
This was a plan made by Ioannis Metaxas (fun fact the ww2 prime minister) a general and the Greeks were ready to strike but then ww2 began. So this plan was proposed to the entente but they rejected it as said in the video.
Wow, between “Hitler is bad” and “war sucks” were really getting into some hot takes with PH lately. But actually though, good on them for mentioning especially the former, as well as the latter. It sounds like the bare minimum, but the bar is in hell.
Drachinifel's video on the naval component of the Gallipoli campaign does a great job explaining just how unprepared the Ottomans were for a British attack and how much of a fuckup the British effort was
This plan existed but was unrelated to World War I. After the Balkan Wars (1912-1913) and the humiliating defeats Turkey suffered at sea, the Ottoman Empire acquired two powerful new warships in an effort to gain naval superiority and threatened to reclaim the eastern Aegean islands from Greece. In response, between 1913 and 1914 (i.e., before World War I), Greece considered two strategic plans: (1) To sink the two advanced Turkish warships before they could reach Constantinople. (2) To launch an invasion and land at Gallipoli in 1913 or 1914, without a formal declaration of war, aiming to catch the Turks off guard and block their fleet from accessing the Aegean. Ultimately, both plans were deemed too risky and were abandoned (the Gallipoli campaign would require a rather large army transported by sea, a move that the Turks could notice and prepare for). When World War I broke out, Greece chose not to participate in the Gallipoli campaign, as it had already evaluated the option and concluded that success in such a campaign would be impossible, given that by 1915 the Turks would be fully prepared and waiting. The main opponent of the Gallipoli campaign in 1915 was Ioannis Metaxas, who argued that the straits could not be taken by force in 1915 with the Turks ready to defend them; furthermore, he stated that Greece would never be able to maintain control of the western coast of Asia Minor and that any attempt at a landing there would be futile (history proved him right in 1922); notably, Metaxas later played a pivotal role in Greece’s victory against Italy in 1940-1941 (WW2). A Greco-Turkish war, which seemed imminent in 1914, was ultimately averted due to the outbreak of World War I, which shifted Turkey’s focus to other fronts.
Beside of this, there was also a plan for 1915 to land in Gallipoli, but the King in the end refused to accept it, though he had no right to do so. Greece was a parlamentary democracy
@@evangelosbaltatzis4266 Venizelos, the Prime Minister, wanted to participate in the campaign, but Metaxas, who was in the military and knew what was going on, said that this wouldn't work out. The King wanted to join Germany but couldn't (Greece was vulnerable at sea and the Greek navy would have no chance against Britain and France) and chose to go with Metaxas' suggestion to preserve neutrality. Venizelos resigned and then we had two Greek States fighting each other. But this is another story for another time...
@lithunoisan unless it means something like appearing on the Tonight Show (Whoever hosts, I don't watch tv anymore, haven't for years) after going viral and getting a book deal on one of his scenarios. Getting good sales is so hard that he'd probably still be doing these.
always remember that perfect italy means a war between Argentina and Brazil, where the italians living in the country would be paid by the italian government to be refugees, incrasing italian population they also could have larger population, meaning 200mi italians in Brazil and 75mi italians in Argentina, of these 75 and 25 respectively could fleed to italy, incrasing their perfect population from 180mi to 280mi
These were plans drawn up by Ioannis Metaxas, a military officer, and later dictator and Prime Minister of Greece from 1936-41, during the aftermath of the Balkan Wars 1912-13. Its catalyst was the ongoing persecution of the Greek communities in Asia Minor by the Ottoman authorities, and also the Ottomans' refusal to recognise Greece's annexation of the Aegean islands close to Turkey's shore during the Balkan conflicts. The plan's objective was to occupy Constantinople during the night to force the Ottoman government to negotiate a lasting end to these events. Whether or not the Greeks planned an extensive occupation is up for debate, but given Metaxas' vehement opposition to Greece's invasion of Turkey in 1919 I tend to think that this was not in the plans. He accurately predicted that any such occupation would lead Greece into a quagmire out of which it would be difficult to remove itself from. Interestingly, the British requested that the Greeks participate in their revised planned invasion of Gallipoli, but without the element of surprise (by now the Turks were well aware of an imminent British invasion and had prepared defences under the supervision of German officers) the Greek government rejected the proposal assuming that it would fail. Though there were some Greek volunteered who joined the expedition.
It's a cool concept, but with no alternate history. It also isn't, like, "good", per se. What would actually occur following such a short WW1? I want to see the new world. Do the Ottomans fight a war for freedom? Do the minorities that were supposed to be oppressed by the Ottomans instead get oppressed by imperial Russia? Do the Balkan countries start fighting each other again? Does Britain fight Russia? Does the Entente Cordial "perpetual peace treaty" of 1905 fall apart or do the colonialists fight other countries? Could you choose a future of this world to go forth?
the video litterally says there is no hope of the turks pushing out the entente. and Imperial Russia massively supported the Armenians in historically controlled russian armenia, while there was a brief period of Russification and oppression after 1905 this had ended and replaced with Armeniophilic treatment. Its not the greek and Armenian populations that would see oppression by the russians it would be people who find themselves as new minorities (like Turks and Kurds) that would see poor treatment.
RUclipsrs are either afraid of offending people with making such large scopes (which is reasonable since most people act like children these days) or they don't want to have to do possibly months of research to make a short video (which also makes total sense)
Well you still don't prevent all the horrors of French, British and Italian colonisation by leaving them stronger than ever to continue their imperialist policies who oppress millions of people.The destruction of those wars helped liberate millions of people
Alternate title what if the British and Greeks decided to pull another Copenhagen. I was surprised the narrator didn't mention that this would be directly compared to 1807.
Nobody ever does pre-emptive attacks like this. Because "my malicious actions averted a fictional possible worse world that could have happened if I didn't do it" never works or never flies. No matter how much it might be true.
Continue this time line It's so interesting to think about Ottomans collapsing so early on that ittihadist pashas in syria etc create their own states to hold out and negotiate. Also it looks like Germany in this time line won't get a harsh peacedeal. Maybe Memel and and Alsace Lorraine they can maybe keep some of their colonies. And I think Habsburgs could Keep their Empire somehow. Austria, Czechs and maybe Slovenes. Because of Italy not humiliating itself in Venice, they may get much more in Dalmatia which may results in Austria keeping Slovenia in order to prevent Serbia overwhelm the region. Hungary would keep the Slovakia because UK would know that any liberated Slavic State from Austria would be just a puppet of Russia. With Slovakians, I think Hungary would cede southern Transilvanian territories near Danube. Also what will happen to Bulgaria? Or Armenians in the Ottoman Empire? Just a lot od stuff to go through.
Why wouldn't Germany have a worse peace deal when France would probably be willing to fight the British to dismantle Germany? Especially with Russia supporting the French and no Americans to intervene and try and stop the French
What if the Aztec Empire survived, modernized with guns, iron weaponry, steel armours/helmets & horses then later joined WW1?* (in this cortez fails to conquer the aztec triple alliance and the aztec elite reacts by adapting to these new invaders by handing over cortez & some of his men back to spanish cuba in exchange for trade of horses, training with gunpowder weaponry and iron. (this isn't very realistic, but i find it fun anyway to speculate about.)
These counter arguments exist in our timeline with the Anglo-Soviet invasion of Iran in WW2 & the British Shelling of Copenhagen in the Napoleonic Wars, although I imagine in this timeline the counter argument would hold more weight.
I feel like without the world wars we’d have more wars, as it was this brutally that made us realize „maybe war is bad“. Up until 1914 it was seen as a great adventure to serve as a soldier. Here, we‘d just constantly have many smaller wars
We keep getting scenarios that end in the Ottomans being completely partitioned and unable to pull a comeback. Makes me hope that we get a what if everything went perfectly for Turkey (not the ottomans) scenario sometime
I think the criticism of the Brits would be on par with the criticism of the Americans for using the nukes on Japan. It ultimately wouldn't hurt them much.
Even if ww1 ended quickly i still think another conflict would happen. With germany weackened the russian french and british will all start hating each other. British might start supporting the german to have any balance of power. Also disolution of austria hungary results in wars and the ottoman is not gonna be happy
You should really make a video exploring the original Romanian plan for the first world war. It was suddenly switched up by the prime minister due to his russophobia, it originally intended to strike south into Bulgaria with everything under the pretext that a successful attack would drive Greece to join the entente, this would have supposedly knocked out Bulgaria and created a wide southern front in the Balkans, Russia was supposed to support this attack Alongside promised Franco British division's, while Romania felt confidently in covering the Austro Hungarian border.
Not only could this have prevented years of death due to war, it could also have prevented or reduced the scale of the Armenian Genocide. Another thing to note is that the Entente tried to force the straights in 1915, but when some of their ships hit a minefield, they abandoned the effort and invaded Gallipoli instead. “ Meanwhile, further attacks of bad weather delayed de Roebeck's assault. It was not until March 18 [1915] that the Allied fleet set sail. This time they encountered a line of mines that aerial reconnaissance had failed to detect. One historian has written, "A Turkish mine expert had taken a small steamer called the Nousret down into Eren Keui Bay and there, parallel to the Asiatic shore and just inside the slack water, he had laid a new line of twenty mines. He did this because he had seen British warships maneuvering there during the previous day." seen British warships maneuvering there during the previous day." The toll on the allied fleet was substantial. The Bouvet (French) and the Irresistible and Ocean (British) were sunk. The effect on British military opinion, once the news reached London, was catastrophic. All those associated with the enterprise behaved as if they never really believed in its viability and had given their support only with profound misgivings. The new reasoning was that to continue without a large military landing force would compound the original error. Only one voice continued to plead that the remaining ships should speed on to Constantinople. Only one voice urged anyone who would listen that in the appalling arithmetic of war, the losses sustained in the Straits so far were trifling compared with those that accrued daily on the western front. Churchill used every avenue at his command to continue the endeavor. He was certain that the Young Turk regime was at its last gasp; all intelligence pointed to this. But the military leadership had lost its appetite for the enterprise; Churchill's voice remained solitary. Only Roger Keyes, Carden's chief of staff, remained as convinced as Churchill that the attempt should continue. "I had a most indelible impression that we were in the presence of a beaten foe," he was later to write. "I thought he was beaten at 2 P.M. I knew he was beaten at 4 P.M.-and at midnight I knew with still greater certainty that he was absolutely beaten; and it only remained for us to organize a proper sweeping force and devise some means of dealing with the drifting mines to reap the fruits of our efforts. I felt that the guns of the forts and batteries and the concealed howitzers and mobile field guns were no longer a menace. Mines moored and drifting must, and could, be overcome." Then, on March 20, 1915, the New York Times carried the following story: TURKS AND KURDS REPORTED TO HAVE MASSACRED MEN, WOMEN AND CHILDREN. Appalling accounts of conditions in Armenia have reached the officials in London of the Armenian Red Cross Fund, ... The plain of Alashgard is virtually covered with the bodies of men, women and children… ” - G.S. Graber in “Caravans to Oblivion”
When the allies start to achieve success in Thrace, wouldn't Bulgaria immediately seize the opportunity to join in and try to regain losses from the 2nd balkan war?
I have serious doubts about the plan to sail up the danube river. Preventing boats to progress seems relatively easy, no counting ambushes and artillery. If anyone has sources on the faisability of this plan i'm really interested
The Gallipoli campaign was awful, I'm Australian so it's very significant to me which is why I know about it. The first few days thousands of Ottoman soldiers stormed trenches to slow down the allied powers until more Ottoman reinforcements would show up it was brutal and then the tide turned and thousands of soldiers died trying to push deeper unsuccessfully
Hey Possible History, for ANZAC Day, can you do an alternate history set around this subject? What if the Nusret mine-layer wasn't put to sea and the March 1915 Franco-British flotilla went through?
surely having your name abbreviated as 'PH' and using a orange and black colour scheme at the end of the video can't be a coincidence? Seems familiar... (love your stuff btw)
What if the Aztec Empire survived and joined the Central Powers in WW1??* The Huey Tlatoani joins Her Allies in Glorious war - Aztec Imperial Propaganda poster says. This would draw more US troops to our timeline's Mexico border with the USA and delay Allied victory in ww1. I wonder if the Aztec Empire would turn ultranationalist or maybe even become a Communist Mesomerican republic as backlash to being on the losing side of ww1.
What if the US had a Native American State? E.g. what if Sequoah was accepted as a us state or Oklahoma was a fully Native American state in the Union...
I enjoy history, and war is part of that so I enjoy that too even if brutal. That said, if PH added a few minutes to his videos talking about internal developments in detail, it would archive another great layer of alternate history storytelling
Scriptwriter here. I initially wrote this as a short essay (the idea of a collab didn't come about until much later) about purely how the Allies could have won World War I faster. Things like social, political, or cultural developments were not the focus. Not to say that these are off limit topics, but it wasn't relevant to the premise of "shorten human suffering asap"
@@The_CounterfactorThat was a really good scenario. The rest of the 20th Century would've been alot more peaceful overall if Britain had accepted the proposal.
@salvatoremaglione6398 Thanks, I appreciate it. It can sometimes be astonishing that military leaders make detrimental decisions that fly in the face of reality, result in unnecessary sacrifices and sometimes undermine their own cause. My favorite example of this is the Battle of the Alamo in 1836. Mexico's dictator Santa Anna chose to take the Alamo by direct assault instead of waiting for the heavy siege cannons scheduled to arrive in two days that would have obliterated the old mission with minimal Mexican losses. Although Santa Anna took the Alamo, he lost hundreds of his best troops, and the brutality of Mexico's army (Hundreds of Texan prisoners of war were slaughtered at Goliad under Santa Anna's orders and he had raised the red flag of "no quarter" at the beginning of the siege.) convinced the Texans to fight on.
With a short ww1, it's possible the British empire may have had a chance to reform into a more federal system, or at least give its dominions greater representation within the empire, potentially leading to some form of British Empire not only surviving up until this day, but perhaps being stronger than most imperial federation timelines. Not to mention, no Russian collapse = no USSR. Not no communism, mind you, as communist movements were popular across many liberal western nations (and Germany), however nothing like the Leninism and Stalinism seen in our world.
If this happen it would probs be seen simaler to how we see pearl harbour. A sudden attack that tho cruel it was necessary for the countries ambitions. One difference as it would be seen slightly better as the winner would be the one who did it
Now we need a continuation of this scenario, answering things like: will German nationalism still rise and lead to a nazi regime? Will Mussolini get to power in Greece? What about the Soviet Union, without the war lasting so long, socialist movements wouldn’t be that powerful
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Honestly the part about "human suffering" during wars and other conflicts is barely considered in alternate history. Thanks for taking it into account here!
Ian Fleming based double 07 off of people he met in British intelligence during his service in the second world war. Without war, James Bond wouldn't exist.
@@robertdowling4673 yeah, not worth all that human suffering
@@minestar2247 You don't like James bond?
@@robertdowling4673 well, the movies aren't that good, entertaining, but not good
@@minestar2247 I've never seen them but i thought the fact was interesting
Clear follow up video: What if everything went perfect for Greece?
Justinian plague never happens... Then we go from there
Venizelos lives forever timeline
fr
Constantinople with a cross on the top of the Hagia Sophia
Venizelos becomes dictator from 1910 until his death. The end.
Scenario: What if Knee Surgery was tomorrow?
Can u explain the meme
Is it from the grinch thing
@@HelloimthisguyYTthere is no meaning behind it, just absurdism
@@HelloimthisguyYTNo meaning. Yes, the grinch thing.
But what if arm surgery was also tomorrow and performed simultaneously on you
@@turos2 ty
0:28 Fun fact, many people think this guy is an example of shell shock, but in reality his eyes look freaky just because blue eyes look scary in old cameras. This is a Canadian soldier who at the time was shot in the neck and was squatting in the trench for 8 hours waiting to be picked up by medical personnel. His facial expression comes from the disbelief of him actually surviving this long while having a bullet hole in his neck. All and all, he survived this encounter and survived ww1.
As someone with blue eyes they just look freaky in general lol
Pls make a full video, this scenario is so interesting!
No arab revolt, Ottoman governors make their own states, WW1 ends in less than a year before america or many others have even joined, which means no self-determination stuff but also a much milder peace treaty
No russian revolutions or civil war, there's no hitler (but probably still mussolini) and Germany, Austria-Hungary and Russia might survive and WW2 will be completely changed if it even happens at all! I love this scenario pls continue it!!
!
no arab revolts? that's not probable, considering they were already revolting way before ww1, and i'm pretty sure that the ottoman empire continuing the way it did before ww1 would have very, dire, side effects on the armenian populations of the empire
If the Entente actually sent significant troops to Serbia in early 1915. instead to Gallipoli, they could won the war. Austro-hungary was exposed, Bulgaria wouldn't even dare to join the war, no land connection with Turkey... the Entante wins in 1916/7.
But Brits only wanted to prevent Russia to take the straits after the war.
I would very much have liked a full video, if this scenario's premise didn't seem so flawed.
I cannot find any mention on the internet of a Greek proposal to the Entente for the Greek army to land at Gallipoli in 1914. The Venizelos foundation says the proposal was made on February the 16th 1915, and that it was made by Venizelos to the rest of the Greek government, not to the Entente. It also mentions that the King was opposed to this plan, and that Venizelos's government resigned five days later.
The very few other sources I found in my, admittedly, not extensive search all agreed that any such discussions were made in 1915, and that the King was steadfast in his support of Greece's neutrality.
@@ErugoPurakushi its alt history tho, it isnt supposed to be 100% realistic
I like how lately, Possible History is promoting smaller alternate History channels
recruiting more for the coalition against whatifalthist and Z
You should do a continuation video
What if everything went perfect for Spain
!
A Dutch making a what if something went perfect for Spain would be so funny
L timeline
Spain gets and keeps ALL of the land under the Treaty of Tordesillas
/s
@@t-uxe5539 The Dutch independence failed, The Reformation failed, The Hambsburgs have a branch line that focus enterily on Spain while another keeps on The HRE, England get a Spanish Queen, Portugal remain within the Iberian Union till it gets reduced to the same status as Aragon.
And this is it
Scenario: What if everything went perfect for my parents' marriage?
Naval invasion of Budapest is wild
Wars on phone:😊
Wars in reality:💀
It’s not even like that on phone it is still much worse
@@EliMillhiser-w7q
I meant In mobile It's fun and there's no Effect
The warfare is terrible but sometimes it's necessary
@@cat-Tomato-5075 oh mb
Very great video. It feals like people are obsessed with making the worst possible timelines happen in alt history (myself not innocent to that). Feels like this video and some of your other videos of recent have pushed back against this. I think thats great
This video seems weird to me. I cannot find any mention on the internet of a Greek proposal to the Entente for the Greek army to land at Gallipoli in 1914. The Venizelos foundation says the proposal was made on February the 16th 1915, but it was made by Venizelos to the rest of the Greek government, not to the Entente. It also mentions that the King was opposed to this plan, and that Venizelos's government resigned five days later.
The very few other source I found in my, admittedly, not extensive search all agreed that any such discussions were made in 1915, and that the King was steadfast in his support of Greece's neutrality.
Can you, or any one in the comments, please help me find an internet source for a 1914 Greek proposal?
Churchill talked about it in his "World Crisis" series and there are some other sources (see the description) that discuss it as well.
This was a plan made by Ioannis Metaxas (fun fact the ww2 prime minister) a general and the Greeks were ready to strike but then ww2 began. So this plan was proposed to the entente but they rejected it as said in the video.
The Greek general Ioannis Metaxas devised the plan
it's important to remember that war is not about immense unnecessary human suffering, but about buff guys with cool guns
Wow, between “Hitler is bad” and “war sucks” were really getting into some hot takes with PH lately.
But actually though, good on them for mentioning especially the former, as well as the latter. It sounds like the bare minimum, but the bar is in hell.
Drachinifel's video on the naval component of the Gallipoli campaign does a great job explaining just how unprepared the Ottomans were for a British attack and how much of a fuckup the British effort was
If I were a German in this timeline I wouldn't even be mad, the Entente played its cards really well.
Wars suck...
I hope this is not a controversial opinion.
Despite the entertainment we derive from videos like this one
it is a fact that we should never forget.
Booooo, boring
You're correct Wars in fact sucked.
This plan existed but was unrelated to World War I.
After the Balkan Wars (1912-1913) and the humiliating defeats Turkey suffered at sea, the Ottoman Empire acquired two powerful new warships in an effort to gain naval superiority and threatened to reclaim the eastern Aegean islands from Greece.
In response, between 1913 and 1914 (i.e., before World War I), Greece considered two strategic plans:
(1) To sink the two advanced Turkish warships before they could reach Constantinople.
(2) To launch an invasion and land at Gallipoli in 1913 or 1914, without a formal declaration of war, aiming to catch the Turks off guard and block their fleet from accessing the Aegean.
Ultimately, both plans were deemed too risky and were abandoned (the Gallipoli campaign would require a rather large army transported by sea, a move that the Turks could notice and prepare for).
When World War I broke out, Greece chose not to participate in the Gallipoli campaign, as it had already evaluated the option and concluded that success in such a campaign would be impossible, given that by 1915 the Turks would be fully prepared and waiting.
The main opponent of the Gallipoli campaign in 1915 was Ioannis Metaxas, who argued that the straits could not be taken by force in 1915 with the Turks ready to defend them; furthermore, he stated that Greece would never be able to maintain control of the western coast of Asia Minor and that any attempt at a landing there would be futile (history proved him right in 1922); notably, Metaxas later played a pivotal role in Greece’s victory against Italy in 1940-1941 (WW2).
A Greco-Turkish war, which seemed imminent in 1914, was ultimately averted due to the outbreak of World War I, which shifted Turkey’s focus to other fronts.
Beside of this, there was also a plan for 1915 to land in Gallipoli, but the King in the end refused to accept it, though he had no right to do so. Greece was a parlamentary democracy
@@evangelosbaltatzis4266 Venizelos, the Prime Minister, wanted to participate in the campaign, but Metaxas, who was in the military and knew what was going on, said that this wouldn't work out. The King wanted to join Germany but couldn't (Greece was vulnerable at sea and the Greek navy would have no chance against Britain and France) and chose to go with Metaxas' suggestion to preserve neutrality. Venizelos resigned and then we had two Greek States fighting each other. But this is another story for another time...
Scenario idea: What if EVERYTHING went PERFECT for Possible History?
(also counterfactor 🗣🗣)
If everything went perfect for him then he wouldn’t be on RUclips.
@lithunoisan unless it means something like appearing on the Tonight Show (Whoever hosts, I don't watch tv anymore, haven't for years) after going viral and getting a book deal on one of his scenarios. Getting good sales is so hard that he'd probably still be doing these.
5:01 I notice that Italy isn't on this list
always remember that perfect italy means a war between Argentina and Brazil, where the italians living in the country would be paid by the italian government to be refugees, incrasing italian population
they also could have larger population, meaning 200mi italians in Brazil and 75mi italians in Argentina, of these 75 and 25 respectively could fleed to italy, incrasing their perfect population from 180mi to 280mi
In the anniversary of the end of the war, absolutely BASED
0:14 allegedly, Hitler openly said his time in WW1 were among his best days. Apparently, his former troop mates supported this claim
What if everything went perfect for Italy?
keep up.
The people yearn for it
👎
@@donaldtrumplover2254 why?
@@GabrieleFurfari there is no dislike button on RUclips anymore
These were plans drawn up by Ioannis Metaxas, a military officer, and later dictator and Prime Minister of Greece from 1936-41, during the aftermath of the Balkan Wars 1912-13. Its catalyst was the ongoing persecution of the Greek communities in Asia Minor by the Ottoman authorities, and also the Ottomans' refusal to recognise Greece's annexation of the Aegean islands close to Turkey's shore during the Balkan conflicts. The plan's objective was to occupy Constantinople during the night to force the Ottoman government to negotiate a lasting end to these events. Whether or not the Greeks planned an extensive occupation is up for debate, but given Metaxas' vehement opposition to Greece's invasion of Turkey in 1919 I tend to think that this was not in the plans. He accurately predicted that any such occupation would lead Greece into a quagmire out of which it would be difficult to remove itself from.
Interestingly, the British requested that the Greeks participate in their revised planned invasion of Gallipoli, but without the element of surprise (by now the Turks were well aware of an imminent British invasion and had prepared defences under the supervision of German officers) the Greek government rejected the proposal assuming that it would fail. Though there were some Greek volunteered who joined the expedition.
It's a cool concept, but with no alternate history. It also isn't, like, "good", per se.
What would actually occur following such a short WW1? I want to see the new world. Do the Ottomans fight a war for freedom? Do the minorities that were supposed to be oppressed by the Ottomans instead get oppressed by imperial Russia? Do the Balkan countries start fighting each other again? Does Britain fight Russia? Does the Entente Cordial "perpetual peace treaty" of 1905 fall apart or do the colonialists fight other countries? Could you choose a future of this world to go forth?
the video litterally says there is no hope of the turks pushing out the entente. and Imperial Russia massively supported the Armenians in historically controlled russian armenia, while there was a brief period of Russification and oppression after 1905 this had ended and replaced with Armeniophilic treatment. Its not the greek and Armenian populations that would see oppression by the russians it would be people who find themselves as new minorities (like Turks and Kurds) that would see poor treatment.
RUclipsrs are either afraid of offending people with making such large scopes (which is reasonable since most people act like children these days) or they don't want to have to do possibly months of research to make a short video (which also makes total sense)
W intro as always 🕊
8:15 and it wasn't already Malicious when the British Donated the Pistol Princip used to Kill the Archduke to the Blackhand?
"Anyone who says that enjoys this kind of thing is a either a liar or a madman"
Adrian Carton de Wiart: "I'll pretend i didnt hear that"
i haven't even watched this yet but i already know its going to be a banger!
Well you still don't prevent all the horrors of French, British and Italian colonisation by leaving them stronger than ever to continue their imperialist policies who oppress millions of people.The destruction of those wars helped liberate millions of people
Clearly that will be tomorrow's fight. This was just Europe engaging in an unexpectedly short skirmish.
What the hell kind of video was that? Why is there no aftermath?
I do like the intro about war. We must never forget the millions of lives who were needlessly lost.
I think a “What if everything went perfect for Finland?” Is an interesting idea
Alternate title what if the British and Greeks decided to pull another Copenhagen. I was surprised the narrator didn't mention that this would be directly compared to 1807.
Nobody ever does pre-emptive attacks like this. Because "my malicious actions averted a fictional possible worse world that could have happened if I didn't do it" never works or never flies. No matter how much it might be true.
Nice new upload
Video idea: What if the Jacobite rising of 1745 was successful?
Continue this time line It's so interesting to think about Ottomans collapsing so early on that ittihadist pashas in syria etc create their own states to hold out and negotiate. Also it looks like Germany in this time line won't get a harsh peacedeal. Maybe Memel and and Alsace Lorraine they can maybe keep some of their colonies. And I think Habsburgs could Keep their Empire somehow. Austria, Czechs and maybe Slovenes. Because of Italy not humiliating itself in Venice, they may get much more in Dalmatia which may results in Austria keeping Slovenia in order to prevent Serbia overwhelm the region. Hungary would keep the Slovakia because UK would know that any liberated Slavic State from Austria would be just a puppet of Russia. With Slovakians, I think Hungary would cede southern Transilvanian territories near Danube. Also what will happen to Bulgaria? Or Armenians in the Ottoman Empire? Just a lot od stuff to go through.
italy would probably get less territory since they join so late insuch a short war, purhaps only trentino (not the whole of south Tirole) if anything.
@matthiuskoenig3378 it all depends on UK to restrict Russia's Power
Why wouldn't Germany have a worse peace deal when France would probably be willing to fight the British to dismantle Germany? Especially with Russia supporting the French and no Americans to intervene and try and stop the French
Please do a part two this scenario seems amazing
What if the Aztec Empire survived, modernized with guns, iron weaponry, steel armours/helmets & horses then later joined WW1?* (in this cortez fails to conquer the aztec triple alliance and the aztec elite reacts by adapting to these new invaders by handing over cortez & some of his men back to spanish cuba in exchange for trade of horses, training with gunpowder weaponry and iron. (this isn't very realistic, but i find it fun anyway to speculate about.)
These counter arguments exist in our timeline with the Anglo-Soviet invasion of Iran in WW2 & the British Shelling of Copenhagen in the Napoleonic Wars, although I imagine in this timeline the counter argument would hold more weight.
Also the British invasion of Iceland
I love your content
What if Texas was partitioned after the Civil War?
Video 12 of asking the best history youtuber to do "what if everything went perfect for britan"
What if Germany favored Russia over Austria-Hungary in the Russo-Turkish War?
Once again, a potential perfect timeline for humanity was derailed by a random delulu brit who possessed much more power and rights than he deserved.
I feel like without the world wars we’d have more wars, as it was this brutally that made us realize „maybe war is bad“. Up until 1914 it was seen as a great adventure to serve as a soldier. Here, we‘d just constantly have many smaller wars
What if Germany remained neutral in World War 1?
I Didn't expect this
We keep getting scenarios that end in the Ottomans being completely partitioned and unable to pull a comeback. Makes me hope that we get a what if everything went perfectly for Turkey (not the ottomans) scenario sometime
I think the criticism of the Brits would be on par with the criticism of the Americans for using the nukes on Japan.
It ultimately wouldn't hurt them much.
Even if ww1 ended quickly i still think another conflict would happen. With germany weackened the russian french and british will all start hating each other. British might start supporting the german to have any balance of power. Also disolution of austria hungary results in wars and the ottoman is not gonna be happy
You should really make a video exploring the original Romanian plan for the first world war. It was suddenly switched up by the prime minister due to his russophobia, it originally intended to strike south into Bulgaria with everything under the pretext that a successful attack would drive Greece to join the entente, this would have supposedly knocked out Bulgaria and created a wide southern front in the Balkans, Russia was supposed to support this attack Alongside promised Franco British division's, while Romania felt confidently in covering the Austro Hungarian border.
As a Greek i think the combination of the Greek and Romanian plan would have been perfect
OR what if the Purepecha* Empire (Irechikwa) survived and modernized till the present??
Not only could this have prevented years of death due to war, it could also have prevented or reduced the scale of the Armenian Genocide. Another thing to note is that the Entente tried to force the straights in 1915, but when some of their ships hit a minefield, they abandoned the effort and invaded Gallipoli instead.
“
Meanwhile, further attacks of bad weather delayed de Roebeck's assault. It was not until March 18 [1915] that the Allied fleet set sail. This time they encountered a line of mines that aerial reconnaissance had failed to detect. One historian has written, "A Turkish mine expert had taken a small steamer called the Nousret down into Eren Keui Bay and there, parallel to the Asiatic shore and just inside the slack water, he had laid a new line of twenty mines. He did this because he had seen British warships maneuvering there during the previous day."
seen British warships maneuvering there during the previous day."
The toll on the allied fleet was substantial. The Bouvet (French) and the Irresistible and Ocean (British) were sunk.
The effect on British military opinion, once the news reached London, was catastrophic. All those associated with the enterprise behaved as if they never really believed in its viability and had given their support only with profound misgivings. The new reasoning was that to continue without a large military landing force would compound the original
error.
Only one voice continued to plead that the remaining ships should speed on to Constantinople. Only one voice urged anyone who would listen that in the appalling arithmetic of war, the losses sustained in the Straits so far were trifling compared with those that accrued daily on the western front.
Churchill used every avenue at his command to continue the endeavor. He was certain that the Young Turk regime was at its last gasp; all intelligence pointed to this. But the military leadership had lost its appetite for the enterprise; Churchill's voice remained solitary. Only Roger Keyes, Carden's chief of staff, remained as convinced as Churchill that the attempt should continue. "I had a most indelible impression that we were in the presence of a beaten foe," he was later to write. "I thought he was beaten at 2 P.M. I knew he was beaten at 4 P.M.-and at midnight I knew with still greater certainty that he was absolutely beaten; and it only remained for us to organize a proper sweeping force and devise some means of dealing with the drifting mines to reap the fruits of our efforts. I felt that the guns of the forts and batteries and the concealed howitzers and mobile field guns were no longer a menace. Mines moored and drifting must, and could, be overcome."
Then, on March 20, 1915, the New York Times carried the following story:
TURKS AND KURDS REPORTED TO HAVE MASSACRED MEN, WOMEN AND CHILDREN.
Appalling accounts of conditions in Armenia have reached the officials in London of the Armenian Red Cross Fund, ... The plain of Alashgard is virtually covered with the bodies of men, women and children…
”
- G.S. Graber in “Caravans to Oblivion”
Why did I read "The forbidden gum plushie" first?
When the allies start to achieve success in Thrace, wouldn't Bulgaria immediately seize the opportunity to join in and try to regain losses from the 2nd balkan war?
Imagine being a poor pesant in the great planes of the Carpathian basin and seeing Dreadnoughts booking it for Budapest.
could you pleace create a map of an peace conference after this scenario?
oh cmon, i was seriusly waiting for the map changues 😥
a quicker war means a far less harsh peace treaty
I have serious doubts about the plan to sail up the danube river. Preventing boats to progress seems relatively easy, no counting ambushes and artillery. If anyone has sources on the faisability of this plan i'm really interested
What if the Inca Empire survived and modernized??
"Frankly, I had enjoyed the war."
- Sir Adrian Carton de Wiart, probably a madman
Hi possible history nice video can you please do an episode about what if everything went perfect for Romania?
The Gallipoli campaign was awful, I'm Australian so it's very significant to me which is why I know about it. The first few days thousands of Ottoman soldiers stormed trenches to slow down the allied powers until more Ottoman reinforcements would show up it was brutal and then the tide turned and thousands of soldiers died trying to push deeper unsuccessfully
Great video
Hey Possible History, for ANZAC Day, can you do an alternate history set around this subject?
What if the Nusret mine-layer wasn't put to sea and the March 1915 Franco-British flotilla went through?
Can you make the peace deal in this scenario and the alternative history that comes after that? (sorry if my english is bad)
Where dod PLC scenario go?
0:18 Adrian Carton De Wairt
And I took that personally
Video 16 of asking for what if sun yat sen’s china survived
surely having your name abbreviated as 'PH' and using a orange and black colour scheme at the end of the video can't be a coincidence? Seems familiar...
(love your stuff btw)
Wait, uploads on Monday?
Broooother, we wanted to see the peace treaty...
0:17 Guess every US president is either lying or crazy.
Every US president was in the trenches of WWI?
What if the Aztec Empire survived and joined the Central Powers in WW1??* The Huey Tlatoani joins Her Allies in Glorious war - Aztec Imperial Propaganda poster says. This would draw more US troops to our timeline's Mexico border with the USA and delay Allied victory in ww1. I wonder if the Aztec Empire would turn ultranationalist or maybe even become a Communist Mesomerican republic as backlash to being on the losing side of ww1.
If the Entente actually sent significant troops to Serbia instead to Gallipoli, they could won the war.
exactly!
They did win.
my guy is schizo or something
What if the US had a Native American State? E.g. what if Sequoah was accepted as a us state or Oklahoma was a fully Native American state in the Union...
Do a continuation video
Why hasn’t he changed the upcoming videos?
I'm not sure if it is the projection, but something's different about Brittany 0:16.🤔
What would an alternate peace deal look like for this scenario?
Damn the king killed it off when qe had our best shot
Day one of asking for a "what if the Jacobites won"/"what if everything went perfect for Scotland" video
I enjoy history, and war is part of that so I enjoy that too even if brutal. That said, if PH added a few minutes to his videos talking about internal developments in detail, it would archive another great layer of alternate history storytelling
Scriptwriter here. I initially wrote this as a short essay (the idea of a collab didn't come about until much later) about purely how the Allies could have won World War I faster. Things like social, political, or cultural developments were not the focus. Not to say that these are off limit topics, but it wasn't relevant to the premise of "shorten human suffering asap"
@@The_CounterfactorThat was a really good scenario. The rest of the 20th Century would've been alot more peaceful overall if Britain had accepted the proposal.
@salvatoremaglione6398 Thanks, I appreciate it. It can sometimes be astonishing that military leaders make detrimental decisions that fly in the face of reality, result in unnecessary sacrifices and sometimes undermine their own cause. My favorite example of this is the Battle of the Alamo in 1836. Mexico's dictator Santa Anna chose to take the Alamo by direct assault instead of waiting for the heavy siege cannons scheduled to arrive in two days that would have obliterated the old mission with minimal Mexican losses. Although Santa Anna took the Alamo, he lost hundreds of his best troops, and the brutality of Mexico's army (Hundreds of Texan prisoners of war were slaughtered at Goliad under Santa Anna's orders and he had raised the red flag of "no quarter" at the beginning of the siege.) convinced the Texans to fight on.
Lore of The Forgotten Greek Plan to Win WW1 in 1915 momentum 100
Something more niche, but interesting:
What if everything went perfect for Saxony?
What if the trail of tears never occurred?
With a short ww1, it's possible the British empire may have had a chance to reform into a more federal system, or at least give its dominions greater representation within the empire, potentially leading to some form of British Empire not only surviving up until this day, but perhaps being stronger than most imperial federation timelines. Not to mention, no Russian collapse = no USSR. Not no communism, mind you, as communist movements were popular across many liberal western nations (and Germany), however nothing like the Leninism and Stalinism seen in our world.
If this happen it would probs be seen simaler to how we see pearl harbour. A sudden attack that tho cruel it was necessary for the countries ambitions. One difference as it would be seen slightly better as the winner would be the one who did it
These videos are always fun
1:30 among those who know...☠️☠️☠️☠️
Only Balkan knows💀
🥭🥭🥭🥭🥭
Thanks For this!! Love your content ❤❤❤❤
So this is basically "What if Greece won WWI" without it actually being such
Bulgaria gives transit rights to Greece?
The Bulgarians hated the Greeks and so did the Greeks to Bulgarians but they both despised the Turks
Now we need a continuation of this scenario, answering things like: will German nationalism still rise and lead to a nazi regime? Will Mussolini get to power in Greece? What about the Soviet Union, without the war lasting so long, socialist movements wouldn’t be that powerful
Finnaly someone says that Carol I was pro Germany
Please make the video what if everything went perfect for the Ottomans