That would mean no France surrendering jokes. Edit: anyone saying “What about the Franco Prussian war”, and, “1815?” good point, however WW2 popularized the joke a lot.
@@Tahirid_18Nah, probably not. The only reason why "France surrenders" is a meme is because of the Napoleonic wars and WW2 (and arguably the Franco-Prussian war). Since WW2 would've seen France flee to Algeria but continue fighting, while the Napoleonic wars would've just been France surrendering, there wouldn't be enough similarity between those 2 situations for people to make fun of France. Like at that point, it'd be like joking about Poland surrendering during WW2 or something. I doubt people would joke about Paris in this scenario.
Ironically enough, in this timeline De Gaulle could be a likely successor to Petain. In this scenario with allied France led by Petain, De Gaulle would have still served under him. De Gaulle's views weren't that far different from Petain's actually, with some speculting he even wanted a restoration of the monarchy. In a timeline where Petain's successor is De Gaulle we might see the regime slightly more liberal but still in the shape of an authoritarian amd conservative one. De Gaulle's France would be even more independent from the west than in our timeline and with such prominent state on the continent even the politics of other western countries such as Italy could be shifted to the right (of course not as far as f ascism) Maybe France, while still opposing the Soviets would endorse some non communist rivals to the west, such as Argentina during the falkland wars, but that's very far in the timeline
well, the us endorsed literal "bad party germans" to fight communism in germany in our timeline, it would make sense that if france was more right wing, that would make that fact more prominent and a bit more overt
The role of Fleet Admiral Darlan could also be mentionned. The French Navy was his personal fiefdom at the time, and so with the destruction of the Army, he led the only capable fighting force left. In their memoirs, Churchill and De Gaulle agree on just one thing : that if Darlan had declared himself for continuing the fight overseas he would have immediately enjoyed international recognition. In an alternate scenario, there is room for serious political infighting between Petain and Darlan, since despite his prestige the old marshall would always be vulnerable to a coup.
@@orionfreed6763 generally french military leadership was more authoritarian, while the the political was more liberal, even socialist now how much right each was is difficult to say exactly, especially for Darlan as he was assassinated sometime in 1943, but as he was considered for a while as a potential leader for the free French by the allies (particularly the Americans), it's not impossible to think he was more agreeable to the allies thus potentially more of a moderate strongman
I mean, portugal moved it's government to Brazil during the napoleonic wars so it's not unheard of. And Britain planned to move to Canada in case of an invasion
@@thatoneduck3875 I mean… losing your monarch to a colony they genuinely prefer over their home country is pretty embarrassing. Or would be, if you didn’t just have a revolution.
You've got it completely backwards. Surrendering in WW2 has turned France into the butt of jokes worldwide. When people now think about France militarily, this one capitulation ranks higher than France's many military victories. By comparison, continuing to fight from the colonies would today be regarded as one of France's defining and most courageous moments in its long history.
@@gengarzilla1685 lol, definitly not, mostly because they might get double handed by the algerians who hate them a lot, and it would still be remembered as a humiliating defeat because the anglo sphere still dislikes france(although more ironically that the places conquered by france)
5:10 Ah yes, relocating to otherseas territories, a "grave humiliation", as opposed to capitulating, letting Germany plunder the country to its heart’s content and becoming its willful, enthusiastic slave and collaborator. France might have had good reasons for surrenduring, but avoiding humiliation was by far the stupidest.
Withdrawing to Algeria would have been more humiliating, because the entire metropolian France would have been occupied by Germany and god knows what would have happened there. Of course entire France was ulitimately occupied in 1942 but this was obviously not known in 1940. Moreover, arriving to your colony after being kicked from your mainland territory with the status of defeated would also have been humiliating, and would have unpredictable consequences too. The whole point of surrendering was to preserve at least something out of France, as opposed to losing entire metropolian France. Technically, even German-occupied Northern France was within borders of Vichy France and it would have been returned after war with Britain (in summer 1940 everyone thought Britain would sign peace deal and war would have ended soon). After the war, France would have only lose Alsace-Lorraine, Pas-de-Calais and Nord. So, losing entire metropolian France as opposed to losing only Northern France (and this only temporarily) was seen as more humiliating.
@@differentview374 wouldn’t surrendering mean that the Germans could theoretically take or impose anything they desire on a helpless France? like having their overseas territories & colonies be broken up & redistributed to the Axis powers, forcing France to demilitarise, give away their Navy, aircrafts, and military vehicles, etc.? What made them think they can realistically “keep whatever they had left” by surrendering? If they’re bound to lose everything anyway, wouldn’t it be better for French “pride” if they continue to fight to the bitter end?
France was preserved. Collaboration worked. The resistance also won so France had perfect scenario irl (which he doesnt seem to understand in this vid)
One thing I think you've missed is that Petain only became Prime Minister after his Predecessor, Paul Reynaud, chose to resign rather than Surrender to Germany. So France could've technically continued without Petain becoming Prime Minister, all Reynaud would need to do is the same thing Georges Clemenceau did in WW1: Refuse to Surrender, and refuse to step down. If he didn't resign and managed to harass the Cabinet into allowing the war to continue. France wouldn't have surrendered. I'd argue this is a more likely scenario
And Reynaud maintaining control would actually push Europe to Unify, he was in favor of a United States of Europe, which essentially means a Federation like the US. That is provided he stayed in power long enough to see things through.
23:48 "hatred of germany" what? did de Gaulle love germany so much more than Petain and that is why he supported the EU or something? Petain be just as likely to support the EU as de Gaulle. Maybe even more since Petain dislike the UK even more, and the in the begining the EU was, at least in from the French perspective, seen as a way to increase their power compaired to the UK. Also why whould the Russians get so much land in Europe if they made way less progress when the germans surrendered. The equivalent Yalta conference would be extremely different.
For an in-depth and carefully researched exploration of this scenario (France continuing the war from North Africa), see 1940: Et si la France avait continué la guerre?
@@londegel Une autre version qui situe le point de divergence un peu plus tôt, mais avec le même résultat. Aussi connue sous le nom de Fantasque Time Line. Deux volumes et trois BD publiées pour le moment.
Everything perfect for Italy is literally just the Everything perfect for Roman Empire video. If Everything went perfect for Italy, Rome wouldn't have fallen.
the Saarland being french was actually pretty likely even in our timeline - the only thing that prevented it, is that France wanted to be on good terms with Germany after the war, and due to the creation of the European Coal and Steel community (which later became the EU) the Saarland stopped being so critically important - its not as important to control the steel production in the Saarland, if you can just buy that steel from Germany.
The siege of toulon would have been epic. I live there and there are fortification everywhere. The port is surrounded by mountain and all the enter point are blocked by fortified artillery position, underground tunnel, pill box etc... It's a multi layer defence and there is no other option that to face it frontally.
From what I understand, Operation Torch gave the Americans the experience of invading by sea and fighting the Germans. A 'D-Day' style of Normandy in this timeline might of been more bloodier, as the Americans may not have the experience, even if the Germans haven't fully fortified the French coast.
I can’t tell you how much I’ve thought about this scenario. One random day I open YoTube and boom, new Possible History video that answers my question.
Some corrections on Portugal and the Portuguese Overseas War: - It lasted 13 years, not 18; - The economy was actually not declining, instead, it had never been so great, reaching its peak of grouth in the 60s and earlie 70s.
I think in this scenario, its even less likely for Germany to become neutral than in our own Timeline. historically, stalin proposed a democratic unified neutral german state, but his idea was declined because the allies feared stalins definition of "democratic", and because they fought that west germany was more useful to them than east germany was to the soviets. With east Germany being even weaker here, I dont think the Allies would ever accept Stalins proposal.
There was also a proposal that was made just before the government left Paris, when key ministers proposed moving the government to Bordeaux (a city located on very undefensible terrain). To counter this proposal, Charles de Gaulle proposed to move the government to Quimper, and to defend only Brittany (the Breton precarré), which is a much more defensible territory than the south of France (It is a narrow peninsula, with many rivers and some mountains). Paul Reynaud historically chose a compromise, moving the government to Tours (halfway between Bordeaux and Quimper), but subsequently gave in to pressure from the majority of ministers and moved the government to Bordeaux. Not sure that De Gaulle's proposal is realistic, but it is an interesting fact.
21:15 a quick google search reveals your age number to be completely wrong! He was born in 1856, which would make him 89 years old in 1945, he never even made it to 98! He died in 1951 at the age of of 95.
Hitler might focus on the Med and Middle East because of the greater - and focus starting right after the fall of France. And he is able to bring in Spain since French colonies are on table.
The irony in here is that its petain the main reason for the capitualtion as the plan to continue in the colonies was the main one, and petain ditched it and imprisonned the politician who mooved to algeria to create a government in the colonies, he was pretty much an anti war figure, he not only capitulated to germany but also didnt went to war with britain after they attcked the french fleet (despite the will of the french admiralty) and gave up indochina to japan even after the local forces beat them back at first
00:23 isn't Zaolzie supposed to be part of Poland by the moment you shown? Sorry, for some nerd like stuff, maybe I sniffed too much glue this time. Btw like your videos, u always try to stick with realism and I can only watch you as possible alternative videos. Didn't watched till the end yet, but I'm sure this video would be as great as others.
@ It used to be very rich in coal and steel and the, at that time, only railway connecting Slovakia to Czechia ran through there. So overall, very strategically important for Czechoslovakia
I really doubt Italy would have invaded Greece in this scenario. With the loss of Libya and Ethiopia, the prestige of the "undefeated" Italy would have been harmed. And in this ATL, Italy would have had to commit much more military for the occupation of France, as well have to deal with the defence of their own shores from both a French and a British fleet. At least, even if the story of Greece and the Balkans unfolds the same way, I really doubt the Fall of Crete would have happened, with two major fleets defending it around it, the French and the British...
The main problem in your scénario is Pétain leading a non-surrendering France. Pétain décided the Armistice of June 1940 for ideological reasons, and Weygand supported it also because of his political stances. To make France fight on, you have to put or maintain someone else in charge of the French governement, like Paul Reynaud or Charles de Gaulle, who was the Minister of War in early June 1940. So, many developments you make in your scenario, related to Pétain's personality and ideology, wouldn't happen.
@@aidanjohnson1105 This channel focuses on realistic Alt Hist, so there has to be some level of justification for it. If you want to go buckwild with it then fine.
@@aidanjohnson1105Germany wouldn't want it anyway. East Prussia doesn't have any Germans anymore living there. Accepting East Prussia's return would just mean accepting having a Russian minority, which would make the German government vulnerable to influence from the Kremlin.
- Everyone would be mad - Germans would be mad - Prussians would be mad - Poor and unstable region - May eventually has to give independence to it due to internal and international pressure.
Hey, the intro was well done! It's pretty rare to hear people acknowledge that there truly was nothing to do, and that Pétain didn't work with the nazis by choice, but to preserve France as much as possible.
@@minestar2247et nous avons aussi l'obligation morale de rappeler aux Anglais que c'est plus facile pour eux de rembarquer, ce qu'ils avaient déjà commencé à faire en septembre 1914, lors de la première bataille de la Marne. Car lors de cette bataille, les Allemands avaient presque réussi à être aussi rapide qu'en 1940.
what if Everything went Perfect for myanmar, sudan, south africa, thailand, Indonesia, Australia, morocco, peru, lebanon, yemen, syria, korea and the DRC??
Minor detail, Austria might be given South Tyrol after the war as the main power which opposed this was the Soviet Union. Without their occupation (like potentially in the scenario) the could get it
What if Everything went Perfect for myanmar, sudan, south africa, thailand, Indonesia, Australia, morocco, peru, lebanon, yemen, syria, korea and the DRC??*
8:44 Franco was personal friends with Petain in real life. The Spanish dictator was a student under Petain and, before the war, the Marshall of the Republic was assigned to be the consul to Spain, given his affinity for Franco. Even de Gaulle wasn’t that far off them, ideologically. The main conflict between de Gaulle and Petain was which side would be the most beneficial for France.
what if Everything went Perfect for myanmar, sudan, south africa, thailand, Indonesia, Australia, morocco, peru, lebanon, yemen, syria, korea and the DRC???
In this timeline nuclear weapons being less taboo leads to a very different Korean war. MacArthur was basically salivating to use tactical nukes, but got told no. I bet he'd get to use them this time, leading to the first time nukes are used in combat in a war seen as much less important than WWII. I wouldn't be surprised if this timeline ends up being a nuclear hellscape when the Soviets try to extend their influence into a weaker Europe and accidentally turn the Cold War hot.
Shortening the war makes USSR stronger as they simply lose less young working age people, less immediate influence might not be a bad thing in the long term
Not necessarily. A big part of treaty negotiations is the clout so to speak. The fact that the Soviets liberated much of Eastern Europe as well as Berlin gave them a massive card to play in negotiations, and was part of the reason that the region fell under Soviet Influence. If the Western Powers were able to turn around their side of the war faster and beat the Soviets to those points, then they'd have more influence and could prevent the Soviets from establishing that zone of influence.
I know, what I'm saying is that avoiding losing tens of millions of able bodied people would have boosted their economic output and potentially led to a stronger USSR by 1985 even if initially would have been weaker on a clout standpoint.
Neat video. Though you do touch upon the French Navy at the beginning you underestimate the butterfly effect 4-6 more battleships (depending on how much life the allies feel like they can get out of the French pre WW1 ships) has on the Allied war at sea. This is very well troden ground in the Navy History crowd but ill give a summary of what happens. With Richelieu avalible, HMS Hood gets its long awaited refit and misses Denmark Straits, meaning it isnt sunk by Bismarcks golden BB. Wiithout the sinking of Hood the German Surface fleet gets the scrapping order from Mustashe man earlier. While in the med, the extra ships allow the Italian Navy to be bottled up sooner which in turn frees up more ships for the Far East. So Japan is faced with a larger Force Z which means it doesnt get overwhelmed, which means Singapore cant fall. Which means Japan fails to capture the Dutch East Indies. Even without Perl Harbour the US is still getting involved as soon as Japan attacks Britain and France. (Any attempt by Japan to take Indochina in this situation would cause the US to entre the war forgoing the embargo).
So, I'm guessing... -Italy invades and fails to annex Ottoman Libya -Italy joins the Central Powers and loses a few territories to France and Yugoslavia -Italy turns fascist and tries to invade Ethiopia (or Libya again) and fails -Italy joins the Axis Powers and loses even more territories maybe
I think a few things would've gone differently. The US, as MAGA as they already were back at those days, wanted to avoid involvement of WWII at all costs. With Japan having that Vietnam moment they might want to listen to the Nazis to invade Soviet Russia instead, meaning the Soviets would lose on two fronts. Petain would force the Nazis out of France, but maybe he would've signed then a deal with Nazi Germany in which each other's territorial integrities are respected after which the Brits are violently kicked out of France. I've no clue what this means for the Benelux. The Dutch Indies would remain under control of the exiled government just like Suriname. Maybe territorial concessions will be made over Benelux, maybe war over Belgium. I think the Nazis would've had a tighter grip on the Netherlands.
@@pieraig915 they would need some valid claimant to have any domestic support, Britain didn't help much to help Portugal keep Brazil and basically cheered them on.
I have contemplated this for a long time. Listened to a great book on the fall of France and I was wondering if a lack of surrender by France would have any long term effects. Happy to see someone make a scenario.
i think the policial scene of this france is kind of complicated, i dont think is sure that france would be a dictatorship after petain, with the defeat of the axis i think that anythin gmore extreme than him is discarted. I think is more posible that france would become a less staunch dictatorship under some general, but still with the same principles, and then possible a conservative-led democrachy, but this would still be shaken by the algeria war wich already colllapsed france it otl.
Petain was no hero of WW1. He was a clown who's only accomplishment was killing hundreds of thousand of his own men, and the men of other commander, by clowning around like an idiot.
I don’t think Germany would invade Russia in this timeline. If France moved to Algeria I feel like Hitler would want to focus on the war in Africa as he wouldn’t want to be exposed.
That would mean no France surrendering jokes.
Edit: anyone saying “What about the Franco Prussian war”, and, “1815?” good point, however WW2 popularized the joke a lot.
Maybe they could still make fun of France in some way...
THERE HAS TO BE A WAY!
Yet still "who was in Paris" jokes
That would be cool, because these jokes are stupid. You can make fun of the french in funnier and less annoying way
there would be jokes about france being easy to conquer
@@Tahirid_18Nah, probably not. The only reason why "France surrenders" is a meme is because of the Napoleonic wars and WW2 (and arguably the Franco-Prussian war).
Since WW2 would've seen France flee to Algeria but continue fighting, while the Napoleonic wars would've just been France surrendering, there wouldn't be enough similarity between those 2 situations for people to make fun of France.
Like at that point, it'd be like joking about Poland surrendering during WW2 or something. I doubt people would joke about Paris in this scenario.
Guess what, we are getting a "What if everything went perfect for Australia" before Italy
Fr
I'll try to remember this to see if it comes true
"what if everything went perfect for a random ass tribe in 56 B.C."
What if everything went perfect for Brainrot
What if everything went perfect for black people
Ironically enough, in this timeline De Gaulle could be a likely successor to Petain. In this scenario with allied France led by Petain, De Gaulle would have still served under him. De Gaulle's views weren't that far different from Petain's actually, with some speculting he even wanted a restoration of the monarchy. In a timeline where Petain's successor is De Gaulle we might see the regime slightly more liberal but still in the shape of an authoritarian amd conservative one. De Gaulle's France would be even more independent from the west than in our timeline and with such prominent state on the continent even the politics of other western countries such as Italy could be shifted to the right (of course not as far as f ascism)
Maybe France, while still opposing the Soviets would endorse some non communist rivals to the west, such as Argentina during the falkland wars, but that's very far in the timeline
Sei ancora vivo, wow
well, the us endorsed literal "bad party germans" to fight communism in germany in our timeline,
it would make sense that if france was more right wing, that would make that fact more prominent and a bit more overt
I could see them being similar to Franco’s Spain in this case, probably eventually still joins NATO controversially
@minestar2247 Source?
@@TeSu-fs7mp watch the "why germany never ne na si fied" by bes d marx
My therapist: French Taiwan isn't real, it can't hurt you!
French Taiwan:
French-occupied Taiwan is not real, what are you on about?
〇
@@Tee_34He meant a situation akin to Taiwan
@@Blankpieceofpaper Here, you dropped this. 👑
Did you meant French Corsica?
The role of Fleet Admiral Darlan could also be mentionned. The French Navy was his personal fiefdom at the time, and so with the destruction of the Army, he led the only capable fighting force left. In their memoirs, Churchill and De Gaulle agree on just one thing : that if Darlan had declared himself for continuing the fight overseas he would have immediately enjoyed international recognition. In an alternate scenario, there is room for serious political infighting between Petain and Darlan, since despite his prestige the old marshall would always be vulnerable to a coup.
Now the question is what if Darlan couped and took power for himself.
Wasn’t Darian far right tho?
@@orionfreed6763 generally french military leadership was more authoritarian, while the the political was more liberal, even socialist
now how much right each was is difficult to say exactly, especially for Darlan as he was assassinated sometime in 1943, but as he was considered for a while as a potential leader for the free French by the allies (particularly the Americans), it's not impossible to think he was more agreeable to the allies thus potentially more of a moderate strongman
Moving the french government to Africa is to humiliating, instead we should surrender completely and aid our age old enemies.
I mean, portugal moved it's government to Brazil during the napoleonic wars so it's not unheard of. And Britain planned to move to Canada in case of an invasion
@@thatoneduck3875 I mean… losing your monarch to a colony they genuinely prefer over their home country is pretty embarrassing. Or would be, if you didn’t just have a revolution.
You've got it completely backwards. Surrendering in WW2 has turned France into the butt of jokes worldwide. When people now think about France militarily, this one capitulation ranks higher than France's many military victories. By comparison, continuing to fight from the colonies would today be regarded as one of France's defining and most courageous moments in its long history.
@@gengarzilla1685 lol, definitly not, mostly because they might get double handed by the algerians who hate them a lot, and it would still be remembered as a humiliating defeat because the anglo sphere still dislikes france(although more ironically that the places conquered by france)
@gengarzilla1685 it's a joke, the original comment was being sarcastic
25:15 Bro thought he could hide it from us 💀
XD, he HAD to sneak Joseph Biden there...
Bro that's hilarious😂 had to sneak him in
I DIDNT EVEN NOTICE WHEN I WAS WATCHING THE VIDEO!
He really is our oldest president.
@@SinoLegionaireso far 😅
Bro, I thought I helucinated Biden in 25:15. I don't even have scisophrinia
I paused the video to read comments just when I saw Biden 😂😂
@@clairelu6924 same here XDDD
22:54 no Godzilla!!! Worse alternate timeline now
Best*
@ shush 🤫
He is doing everything before perfect Italy 😭
what if Garibaldi created a southern italian Republic in 1860
5:10 Ah yes, relocating to otherseas territories, a "grave humiliation", as opposed to capitulating, letting Germany plunder the country to its heart’s content and becoming its willful, enthusiastic slave and collaborator.
France might have had good reasons for surrenduring, but avoiding humiliation was by far the stupidest.
France did not, French politicians did, are you agreeing everything your govt do ?
Withdrawing to Algeria would have been more humiliating, because the entire metropolian France would have been occupied by Germany and god knows what would have happened there. Of course entire France was ulitimately occupied in 1942 but this was obviously not known in 1940. Moreover, arriving to your colony after being kicked from your mainland territory with the status of defeated would also have been humiliating, and would have unpredictable consequences too.
The whole point of surrendering was to preserve at least something out of France, as opposed to losing entire metropolian France. Technically, even German-occupied Northern France was within borders of Vichy France and it would have been returned after war with Britain (in summer 1940 everyone thought Britain would sign peace deal and war would have ended soon). After the war, France would have only lose Alsace-Lorraine, Pas-de-Calais and Nord.
So, losing entire metropolian France as opposed to losing only Northern France (and this only temporarily) was seen as more humiliating.
@@differentview374 wouldn’t surrendering mean that the Germans could theoretically take or impose anything they desire on a helpless France? like having their overseas territories & colonies be broken up & redistributed to the Axis powers, forcing France to demilitarise, give away their Navy, aircrafts, and military vehicles, etc.? What made them think they can realistically “keep whatever they had left” by surrendering? If they’re bound to lose everything anyway, wouldn’t it be better for French “pride” if they continue to fight to the bitter end?
France was preserved. Collaboration worked. The resistance also won so France had perfect scenario irl (which he doesnt seem to understand in this vid)
One thing I think you've missed is that Petain only became Prime Minister after his Predecessor, Paul Reynaud, chose to resign rather than Surrender to Germany.
So France could've technically continued without Petain becoming Prime Minister, all Reynaud would need to do is the same thing Georges Clemenceau did in WW1: Refuse to Surrender, and refuse to step down. If he didn't resign and managed to harass the Cabinet into allowing the war to continue. France wouldn't have surrendered.
I'd argue this is a more likely scenario
And Reynaud maintaining control would actually push Europe to Unify, he was in favor of a United States of Europe, which essentially means a Federation like the US. That is provided he stayed in power long enough to see things through.
23:48 "hatred of germany" what? did de Gaulle love germany so much more than Petain and that is why he supported the EU or something? Petain be just as likely to support the EU as de Gaulle. Maybe even more since Petain dislike the UK even more, and the in the begining the EU was, at least in from the French perspective, seen as a way to increase their power compaired to the UK. Also why whould the Russians get so much land in Europe if they made way less progress when the germans surrendered. The equivalent Yalta conference would be extremely different.
Agree, as Russians even tho would be promised something akin to canon they would have less of a say due to their performance.
I've been waiting for that scenario for years, it's finally here and it's a great video
For an in-depth and carefully researched exploration of this scenario (France continuing the war from North Africa), see 1940: Et si la France avait continué la guerre?
De Alterhis?
@@londegel Une autre version qui situe le point de divergence un peu plus tôt, mais avec le même résultat. Aussi connue sous le nom de Fantasque Time Line. Deux volumes et trois BD publiées pour le moment.
@@londegel wow la vidéo a l'ancienne
I don’t think bro is making an “Everything Goes Perfect for Italy” video at this point 💀
fr I think it just shows how much he hates italy xD
So uninterested in that video. They were doomed. Going perfect = no Mussolini + join allies asap.
Italy is already very lucky to even exist considering how fragile they are
Everything perfect for Italy is literally just the Everything perfect for Roman Empire video.
If Everything went perfect for Italy, Rome wouldn't have fallen.
@@nathanfallin2750 there isn't only ww2, and mussolini was actually a very liked leader until the war
the Saarland being french was actually pretty likely even in our timeline - the only thing that prevented it, is that France wanted to be on good terms with Germany after the war, and due to the creation of the European Coal and Steel community (which later became the EU) the Saarland stopped being so critically important - its not as important to control the steel production in the Saarland, if you can just buy that steel from Germany.
You should do i video that looks into a more harsh treaty of versailles and a less harsh treaty of versailles
He did? It is a viewers voted video.
He did that like a year ago
He did. Also it’s difficult to make a less harsh treaty than our timeline
@@KyloHen4162 Tell that to Austria-Hungary and the Ottomans, Germany is the mem of the due complaining about his migraine to Jesus
@@scorpixel1866Versailles was only for Germany
The siege of toulon would have been epic.
I live there and there are fortification everywhere. The port is surrounded by mountain and all the enter point are blocked by fortified artillery position, underground tunnel, pill box etc...
It's a multi layer defence and there is no other option that to face it frontally.
Wow. I have been wanting to see a scenario like this for so long. I love the concept
From what I understand, Operation Torch gave the Americans the experience of invading by sea and fighting the Germans. A 'D-Day' style of Normandy in this timeline might of been more bloodier, as the Americans may not have the experience, even if the Germans haven't fully fortified the French coast.
I refuse to live in a world without Godzilla and Fallout 3 . Thank you for your sacrifice , Monsieur Petain .
What if everything went perfect for Italy
I think it was done before
Yes, and the Kingdom of Greece.
@@unfunny4346 Nope
@Oppenheimer.J.Robert must've been the wind then
@@Oppenheimer.J.Robert actually there was what if everything went perfect for rome, ig it could count as italy?
I can’t tell you how much I’ve thought about this scenario. One random day I open YoTube and boom, new Possible History video that answers my question.
Congrats on reaching 1M views on a video!🎉
What if Charles V kept the Netherlands with the Austrian Habsburgs?
Some corrections on Portugal and the Portuguese Overseas War:
- It lasted 13 years, not 18;
- The economy was actually not declining, instead, it had never been so great, reaching its peak of grouth in the 60s and earlie 70s.
Here before italy guy. This feels wrong
I think in this scenario, its even less likely for Germany to become neutral than in our own Timeline. historically, stalin proposed a democratic unified neutral german state, but his idea was declined because the allies feared stalins definition of "democratic", and because they fought that west germany was more useful to them than east germany was to the soviets. With east Germany being even weaker here, I dont think the Allies would ever accept Stalins proposal.
There was also a proposal that was made just before the government left Paris, when key ministers proposed moving the government to Bordeaux (a city located on very undefensible terrain). To counter this proposal, Charles de Gaulle proposed to move the government to Quimper, and to defend only Brittany (the Breton precarré), which is a much more defensible territory than the south of France (It is a narrow peninsula, with many rivers and some mountains). Paul Reynaud historically chose a compromise, moving the government to Tours (halfway between Bordeaux and Quimper), but subsequently gave in to pressure from the majority of ministers and moved the government to Bordeaux.
Not sure that De Gaulle's proposal is realistic, but it is an interesting fact.
Please do a “what if everything went perfect for Italy”
21:15 a quick google search reveals your age number to be completely wrong! He was born in 1856, which would make him 89 years old in 1945, he never even made it to 98! He died in 1951 at the age of of 95.
Possible he got the numbers mixed up
Idea: on April folks make a vid called: What if Earth never existed? (Maybe go on a tangent about the upcoming alien invasion or something)
Hitler might focus on the Med and Middle East because of the greater - and focus starting right after the fall of France. And he is able to bring in Spain since French colonies are on table.
Do what if the Franco British union happened (and succeeded)
4 comments on one video is crazy
@@ArabmapperguyNo it's not
HOI4 moments:
The irony in here is that its petain the main reason for the capitualtion as the plan to continue in the colonies was the main one, and petain ditched it and imprisonned the politician who mooved to algeria to create a government in the colonies, he was pretty much an anti war figure, he not only capitulated to germany but also didnt went to war with britain after they attcked the french fleet (despite the will of the french admiralty) and gave up indochina to japan even after the local forces beat them back at first
Possible History Never Fails To Deliver Despite His Pregnancy!
00:23 isn't Zaolzie supposed to be part of Poland by the moment you shown? Sorry, for some nerd like stuff, maybe I sniffed too much glue this time. Btw like your videos, u always try to stick with realism and I can only watch you as possible alternative videos. Didn't watched till the end yet, but I'm sure this video would be as great as others.
And yeah, next second it depicts already partitioned Poland, I'm speaking 'bout the map after Czechoslovakian partition.
Zaolzie is shown as a part of Poland, the area actually isn’t as big as one might think
@@Diam0nD_007 oh, sorry then
What’s so important about this region again?
@ It used to be very rich in coal and steel and the, at that time, only railway connecting Slovakia to Czechia ran through there. So overall, very strategically important for Czechoslovakia
I really liked this scenario, and am very excited for the Decembrists!
What if the Soviet Union won the Polish Soviet War?
Awesome video,Keep it up!
I really doubt Italy would have invaded Greece in this scenario. With the loss of Libya and Ethiopia, the prestige of the "undefeated" Italy would have been harmed. And in this ATL, Italy would have had to commit much more military for the occupation of France, as well have to deal with the defence of their own shores from both a French and a British fleet. At least, even if the story of Greece and the Balkans unfolds the same way, I really doubt the Fall of Crete would have happened, with two major fleets defending it around it, the French and the British...
Never underestimate the complete and utter stupidity of Benito Mussolini.
Video 18 of asking for what if sun yat sen’s china survived
What if the big bang never happend
The main problem in your scénario is Pétain leading a non-surrendering France. Pétain décided the Armistice of June 1940 for ideological reasons, and Weygand supported it also because of his political stances. To make France fight on, you have to put or maintain someone else in charge of the French governement, like Paul Reynaud or Charles de Gaulle, who was the Minister of War in early June 1940.
So, many developments you make in your scenario, related to Pétain's personality and ideology, wouldn't happen.
10:05 what is the music used here called?
What if East Prussia was returned to Germany in the 90's?
Why would it be?
@@lucyla9947 Might as well be asking why do anything in alt history
@@aidanjohnson1105 This channel focuses on realistic Alt Hist, so there has to be some level of justification for it. If you want to go buckwild with it then fine.
@@aidanjohnson1105Germany wouldn't want it anyway.
East Prussia doesn't have any Germans anymore living there.
Accepting East Prussia's return would just mean accepting having a Russian minority, which would make the German government vulnerable to influence from the Kremlin.
- Everyone would be mad
- Germans would be mad
- Prussians would be mad
- Poor and unstable region
- May eventually has to give independence to it due to internal and international pressure.
Keep up the great content!
Do what’s if everything went perfect for Iran or armenia
Any specific starting time period you had in mind? They have a long history
@ probably starting around or a bit before ww1
@@irrelevantcheese8623 Interesting. I really do hope that your idea gets chosen
Hey, the intro was well done! It's pretty rare to hear people acknowledge that there truly was nothing to do, and that Pétain didn't work with the nazis by choice, but to preserve France as much as possible.
it's still a humiliating defeat that we have the moral obligation to remind them at every opportunity
Most people interested in history already recognize that Pete wasn't the moustache-twirling villain he was painted as.
@@minestar2247et nous avons aussi l'obligation morale de rappeler aux Anglais que c'est plus facile pour eux de rembarquer, ce qu'ils avaient déjà commencé à faire en septembre 1914, lors de la première bataille de la Marne. Car lors de cette bataille, les Allemands avaient presque réussi à être aussi rapide qu'en 1940.
@@MyVanirVery true, but I'm tired of hearing the same bullshit all the time
what if Everything went Perfect for myanmar, sudan, south africa, thailand, Indonesia, Australia, morocco, peru, lebanon, yemen, syria, korea and the DRC??
Minor detail, Austria might be given South Tyrol after the war as the main power which opposed this was the Soviet Union. Without their occupation (like potentially in the scenario) the could get it
And wouldn't that be great
What if Everything went Perfect for myanmar, sudan, south africa, thailand, Indonesia, Australia, morocco, peru, lebanon, yemen, syria, korea and the DRC??*
Video 15 of asking the best history youtuber to do "what if everything went perfect for britan"
25:15 is crazy 💀
Ahhhh Dementia Jumpscare !!
8:44 Franco was personal friends with Petain in real life. The Spanish dictator was a student under Petain and, before the war, the Marshall of the Republic was assigned to be the consul to Spain, given his affinity for Franco.
Even de Gaulle wasn’t that far off them, ideologically. The main conflict between de Gaulle and Petain was which side would be the most beneficial for France.
what if Everything went Perfect for myanmar, sudan, south africa, thailand, Indonesia, Australia, morocco, peru, lebanon, yemen, syria, korea and the DRC???
In this timeline nuclear weapons being less taboo leads to a very different Korean war. MacArthur was basically salivating to use tactical nukes, but got told no. I bet he'd get to use them this time, leading to the first time nukes are used in combat in a war seen as much less important than WWII. I wouldn't be surprised if this timeline ends up being a nuclear hellscape when the Soviets try to extend their influence into a weaker Europe and accidentally turn the Cold War hot.
What if France surrendered in 1917, but Germany still looses WW1?
I love your videos and i am a huge fan of you and alternate history
I love the new format where you look pretty far out in to the future!
Shortening the war makes USSR stronger as they simply lose less young working age people, less immediate influence might not be a bad thing in the long term
Not necessarily.
A big part of treaty negotiations is the clout so to speak. The fact that the Soviets liberated much of Eastern Europe as well as Berlin gave them a massive card to play in negotiations, and was part of the reason that the region fell under Soviet Influence.
If the Western Powers were able to turn around their side of the war faster and beat the Soviets to those points, then they'd have more influence and could prevent the Soviets from establishing that zone of influence.
I know, what I'm saying is that avoiding losing tens of millions of able bodied people would have boosted their economic output and potentially led to a stronger USSR by 1985 even if initially would have been weaker on a clout standpoint.
8:02 wait the numbers they dont add up
Another Possible History banger lets gooooooo!!! 🔥🔥🔥🔥🗣🗣🗣🗣
25:14 bro thought he was slick 💀
I love how every time there is a WW2 scenario the axis get fucked lmao
Do what if Burgundy formed the Netherlands
Neat video. Though you do touch upon the French Navy at the beginning you underestimate the butterfly effect 4-6 more battleships (depending on how much life the allies feel like they can get out of the French pre WW1 ships) has on the Allied war at sea.
This is very well troden ground in the Navy History crowd but ill give a summary of what happens. With Richelieu avalible, HMS Hood gets its long awaited refit and misses Denmark Straits, meaning it isnt sunk by Bismarcks golden BB.
Wiithout the sinking of Hood the German Surface fleet gets the scrapping order from Mustashe man earlier.
While in the med, the extra ships allow the Italian Navy to be bottled up sooner which in turn frees up more ships for the Far East. So Japan is faced with a larger Force Z which means it doesnt get overwhelmed, which means Singapore cant fall. Which means Japan fails to capture the Dutch East Indies. Even without Perl Harbour the US is still getting involved as soon as Japan attacks Britain and France. (Any attempt by Japan to take Indochina in this situation would cause the US to entre the war forgoing the embargo).
What if the Frenco-African plan worked, and France's land in Africa became a full part of France?
This was a really interesting scenario, really a fantastic exploration of the "butterfly effect". Thanks, PH!
Video idea: What if the Jacobite rising of 1745 was successful?
There should be a part 2 of this it would be interesting to see where this timeline heads to into the modern world
What if everything went perfect for Finland would go so hard
Day 2 of asking for what if the Soviets won the Polish Soviet War in 1920 (I’m a bit late to the party but whatever)
Wonderful! I was waiting for this video, to see what else could be imagined from Alterhis.
Next video: What if nothing changed for Italy
THANK YOU PH! I'm so happy
Its strange that Petain thought it was more humilating to relocate the government somewhere temporarily then losing a war.
because despite being part of france, algeria was seen as less important than the mainland, especially the natives(current algerians).
I love your vids
I read I love your kids
@@EduardoDistassi same 💀
So France not surrendering means no Godzilla?
And no anime
@@ido5269Anime would still exist as long as Japan got their military culture dismantled and still own Northern Honshu.
Please do what if everything went perfect for italy
You should do "What If Everything Went terrible for Italy"
What if i you ate Italy.
So, I'm guessing...
-Italy invades and fails to annex Ottoman Libya
-Italy joins the Central Powers and loses a few territories to France and Yugoslavia
-Italy turns fascist and tries to invade Ethiopia (or Libya again) and fails
-Italy joins the Axis Powers and loses even more territories maybe
I think a few things would've gone differently. The US, as MAGA as they already were back at those days, wanted to avoid involvement of WWII at all costs. With Japan having that Vietnam moment they might want to listen to the Nazis to invade Soviet Russia instead, meaning the Soviets would lose on two fronts. Petain would force the Nazis out of France, but maybe he would've signed then a deal with Nazi Germany in which each other's territorial integrities are respected after which the Brits are violently kicked out of France. I've no clue what this means for the Benelux. The Dutch Indies would remain under control of the exiled government just like Suriname. Maybe territorial concessions will be made over Benelux, maybe war over Belgium. I think the Nazis would've had a tighter grip on the Netherlands.
What if Spain kept the Louisiana Territory?
What if Portugal won the war of Spanish succession
That's an odd one considering they were just on the side of the hapsburgs and not their own candidate.
yeah like maybe they get the house of braganza backed by Britain or smth like that
@@pieraig915 they would need some valid claimant to have any domestic support, Britain didn't help much to help Portugal keep Brazil and basically cheered them on.
@@MohammedAli-hl4mr yeah but imagine it happened how funny would it be to have two iberian unions
I have contemplated this for a long time. Listened to a great book on the fall of France and I was wondering if a lack of surrender by France would have any long term effects. Happy to see someone make a scenario.
i think the policial scene of this france is kind of complicated, i dont think is sure that france would be a dictatorship after petain, with the defeat of the axis i think that anythin gmore extreme than him is discarted.
I think is more posible that france would become a less staunch dictatorship under some general, but still with the same principles, and then possible a conservative-led democrachy, but this would still be shaken by the algeria war wich already colllapsed france it otl.
Will you do another voting live stream like the ones with Germany and the US?
Petain was no hero of WW1. He was a clown who's only accomplishment was killing hundreds of thousand of his own men, and the men of other commander, by clowning around like an idiot.
I love this timeline, because Czechia is not suffering under communism
I don’t think Germany would invade Russia in this timeline. If France moved to Algeria I feel like Hitler would want to focus on the war in Africa as he wouldn’t want to be exposed.
Will we ever get a what if history went perfect for Italy?
search possible history Garibaldi South Italy
Possible history,I found that in your history reenacting scenarios,China always plays Germany's role,and India always plays Russia's role.
Franco-British Union video will be peak.
what if Everything went perfectly well for Kurdistan? what if Everything went Perfect for the Assyrians post-ww1?
What if Juan Carlos continued the Francoist regime and became the last absolute monarch of Europe?
What if 🇵🇱 Poland had enough allies to hold off both Germany 🇩🇪 and Russia 🇷🇺? Poland 🇵🇱’s new allies are USA 🇺🇸 West Germany 🇩🇪 and West China
This is so uncanny-- I made a scenario like this myself like two days ago :sob:
Also I am not saying he copied me. I am pointing out a coincidence
Great minds think alike
what if Lee Kuan Yew ruled over a united singapore-malaysia?
Pertain is such an interesting person, now he's looked at as an evil guy but back in 1940 he was the hero of France
Honestly Petain would never continue the fight. Even in WW1 he was quite overcautious in every step he made.