What if Greece joined the Central Powers?
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- #possiblehistory #ph
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This will be fact checked by the most Venizelist greek there is
Correction #1: Venizelos was not a liberal, he was staunchly anti democratic and anti Semitic, he simply wanted total control over the government to go to war with Turkey
This video was fact checked
By Venizlos himself
@@IdanGhengis indeed
Venizelist Liberal Democracy forever!! ❤
@@RegentOfGreece he wasn't democratic
Make a what if everything went perfect for Greece
Is that Alexander Empire survived?
@@NontonSejarah-drg.naufalprob based around Ottomon independence and ww1
Need this to exist
@@NontonSejarah-drg.naufal That would rather be "What if everything went perfectly for the Greek civilization"
Yes
Suggestion: This scenario but for *Sweden.* Near the beginning of the war, a rogue Russian admiral planned a pre-emptive attack on the Swedish navy because he thought they were going to join the war as an ally of Germany, but he was pulled back before he could strike. If he manages to get through and violate Swedish neutrality, that not only opens up another front in Finland/Aland but also counter-balances the diplomatic hit Germany took from the rest of the world when it violated Belgian neutrality.
This
yep, thats peak right there
This would be SO interesting to see, I didn't even know about this event.
What if Sweden joined the Central Powers?
Good video, but I’d like to see some more what if videos for the Medieval Era, I’m curious to see how you’d handle the whole duchy/county system in the H.R.E. I’m willing to bet it’d be a good video though.
Video idea: What if the Ottoman Empire collapsed in 1912?
Only ogs remember the 6 pixel old thumbnail
2 weeks waiting for this
Did you guys just notice the new thumbnail(it sucks)
I was pleasantly surprised by the low resolution thumbnail
Please, what if history went perfect for Sweden
Why is the Thumbnail 144 Pixels😭
What if the Ottoman Empire joined the entente?
This was a very interesting scenario, thank you for making it.
Bulgaria having the Aegean coast is really interesting, as it can serve as a buffer between Turkey and Greece. One thing that was interesting is the Cold War, where Bulgaria gets to keep it, so the Communist world has a gateway to the Mediterranean Sea. The Greek civil war after WW2 has a higher chance of the communists winning, although it's still unlikely.
Great video PH!
Omg its another member of the Alternate History Multiverse
Unban me from your server
@@Triple_Alliance you're not real for that
On the other hand, the Allies may want to deny this Aegean coastline to the Soviets. I think Bulgaria would only keep it in this scenario if they're not a Soviet puppet.
BRO FR SAID "but this isn't Hearts of Iron 4" I'M FUCKING LAUGHING TILL' DEATH
Whats the timestamp I still haven't heard that part lol
12:54 is when he said it
lol it's a legit thing to add imo. Some people would for real think real life works like HoI IV because that's where their knowledge of warfare comes from xD
Nah the 3 greek and bulgarian giga-tank divisions would encircle the entire russian army and win the war for the central powers just like hoi
@@maciejbala477Yea. Armies are made up of people, not automatons. HoI4 wouldn’t be nearly as fun if it put in “no we ain’t gonna do that lmao” Ai
Just a greek here who wants to give some extra context. The king of Greece had family ties with queen Sophia of Germany, which explains his stance towards the central powers and not wanting to join the entente. Greece had also fought in two balkan wars and was exhausted, while the king was the commander of the army during those wars which successfully doubled our territory. Combined with the church's support for him, you can see you have a lot of people who liked him.
I still prefer venizelos's vision and actions, but you kind of made the king seem kinda dumb, can't say youre completely wrong though..
Blud thought he could hop on a horse and defeat the Turks.
It _was_ dumb of him to not act after Bulgaria made a move on Greece. He lost an unacceptable amount of face on this backdown. He'd just proved that Greek sovereignty against the Bulgarians came second to Greek relations with the Germans.
@@gengarzilla1685 he certainly lost support just giving up kavala for free
@ComradeLenny well they almost destroyed the Turkish army in 1922 and had the turks retreated (which they were planning) they would have lost Ankara
@@mariosvourliotakis Venizelos gave kavala
As a Greek it is truly painful to see Greece lose even more territories!
Cope.
@@katarzynasosnowska5899 What do you mean man?
But greek gain few territories 😅
@@Prussiankingdom1871 I mean that in this scenario where Greece gets treated like a member of the Centrals Powers
As a Greek, I agree, and it's even more painful to see that in the best scenario Greece it's still the same
unironically, what if WW1 or WW2 had Hoi4 mechanics would be a very interesting and very funny video to make
"Instead of going around the Maginot line, the German high command opted to paradrop a single battalion of paratroopers into Paris, which was enough to cause France to surrender."
Later in the video: "Operation Barbarossa would be far more successful, with Axis forces pushing past Moscow. Germany managed to encircle a large portion of the Soviet army near the start of the invasion: propaganda maps showing this encirclement were frequently dropped on Allied nations in Operation Reddit. However, due to neither side understanding the supply system, the Eastern Front stagnated for the rest of the war."
Near the end: "with most of Japan's army stuck in China (again, neither side could make any progress due to logistical issues), the Allies launched a naval invasion of the home islands. This caught Japan completely off guard, with the 8 divisions guarding the home islands quickly overrun."
I’m gonna call BS on the first scenario, if this happened the central powers would back royalist Greece and the bulgars and A-H would send troops in to help the king like the entente is helping the rebel state. Realistically the rebels would lose, they don’t have the resources or time to reinforce long enough for entente reinforcements to arrive( the entente need to find the men, and gather the necessary logistics to supply those men which would take time).
Let assume that generously 25k out the 30k join the terror state even so the terror state needs to find a way to reinforce there position as well as feed and arm 25 thousand people, the central powers should be able to at LEAST create a small break though the rebels ramshackle defenses and reinforce the royal government and eventually eradicate them entirely.
Entente troops were already there and Britains naval supremacy would let them keep them supplied
@@capadociaash8003 thank you bringing that up I did not know that, but the entente only brought enough to garrison thessaloniki. That still means that 25k extra men would still starve and food and equipment would have to be drawn up and shipped to thessaloniki with all haste as men can only go a couple months without food before they are unfit for battle to be fair though I’m sure the traitorous forces as well as the entente can stretch there rations and seize food form the local populous to sustain themselves long enough for the entente supplies and reinforcements to arrive.
To clarify so that there is no confusion I believe the rebels would most likely march to thessaloniki with all haste to reinforce the entente garrison and secure access to a port to ensure resupply. This makes the most tactical sense as there only other realistic option would be holding out in the mountains and that would be worse approach as good will eventually run out of food and army was never trained in irregular tactics( I.e hit and run, ambush etc).
Moving on there is something that needs to be said is that of the average soldier. I have a strong feeling that the majority of troops that in our timeline joined the rebels had no idea what was happening and it was the generals who were loyal to Venizelos. This is relevant because once the average soldier realizes they are fighting against the king and Greece they would begin to desert on mass as they have no reason to trust Venizelos or treasonous generals but have every reason to desert there position given how the side they are is harming there country.
Moving on, we now need to look at the geographic situation of Thessaloniki to determine how easy(or difficult) it is to seize, pulling up a map of the city and the surrounding countryside we tell geographically the city is almost surrounded entirely of flat lines with there being a small Mt ridge to the northeast of the city far enough away that it pose much a logistical issue to the central powers when it comes to supply there men, with these flat plains we also surmise that trench’s will become the norm just like any other ww1 front. As for the entente they will suffer a disadvantage given how there is bay surrounding thessaloniki which the central powers can easily exploit to harass supply lines being to sent to the city. I would recommend placing art batteries and then later navel batteries in Angelochori and the Delta Aksiou. I could continue but I’m sure I’m boring you by now, good day.
Suggestion: What if Ned Kelly started an Australian Revolution?
Great idea!!
As an Australian, this would make me very happy.
What if the thumbnail of this video had more than 7 pixels
An interesting thing to take into account is that, if Constantine actually declared war on the Entente, and the situation escalated, then upon Venizelos' return the king would be declared a traitor, he'd never be allowed to return like he did in 1920 and it's even possible that Greece would be declared a republic. If the royalists didn't return then the Entente wouldn't retire their support for Greece in Anatolia, at least not in the same way they did in reality (taking back the Greek wartime loan and the French gifting arms to Turkey) and also the Greek Venizelist generals wouldn't be purged. It's very likely that the war in Anatolia reaches a stalemate
I think Turkey would make Axis experience a hard time because at the path to 1939, Turkey started to modernise its military consists of experienced troops and generals that have seen War of Tripoli,Frist Balkan War,Second Balkan War,WW1 and Turkish War of Independence. Turkey would still hold on to Istanbul but it would maybe lose Thrace temprorarly. At the end stage of the war though, Turkey would have advanced into the Balkans. This would also effect Turkey's politics during 40s and 50's. B3cause one of the reasons that caused CHP defeat to DP was the food shortages for a possible war senario preparation and because in this senario Turkey entered the war, public wouldn't critisized CHP for the food shortages because again in this senario Axis Powers invaded Turkey.
Turkey also fortified its European border during WWII iotl, so ttl's Greece and Italy would struggle with Thrace.
Thumbnail is 5 pixels bruh
Why the thumbnail built like that 😭
Possible History Thumbnail Budget Runs Out😭😭
Venizelist Greece looks... interesting to say the least.
Supaaa crispyyy
Hey, could you do what would happen if Great Britain signed peace with Germany in 1940, but then when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, Germany would declare war on the USA. And let's assume, of course, that for some reason the British will not join the war again and the Japanese will not attack them either because the Germans will not agree. Then we would have a neutral Britain while the USA and the USSR fight against Germany, Italy and Japan. Would the USA send forces to the USSR (Because an invasion across the Atlantic would not be possible for the Americans, just like it was for the Germans) Or would they just support the USSR through an enlarged land lease and focus on defeating Japan?
Ayo that‘s a great idea
I see potential here
@@WilhelmRillhelm Yes... imagine the Battle of Kursk with the Americans alongside the Russians fighting the Germans. I think that the Cold War in such a situation would be much colder, although it is not known how the USA would come to an agreement with the USSR in such a situation, I would not be surprised even if, without England's participation in the war, Roosevelt would agree to include all of Europe in the USSR's influence to ensure Europe's final "PEACE"🤣. Although, from what I know, Roosevelt was not stupid enough to believe in the complete innocence of the USSR and Stalin, but he probably thought that he would finally be able to reach an understanding with Stalin in the name of world peace, but at the end, before his death, apparently he was screaming in a wheelchair to his people that Stalin had deceived him and had not kept any of the agreements. By the way, if the USA helped the USSR in this way, the USSR would probably also help in the fight against Japan from maybe the middle or end of 1942, I assume, although it is not known how quickly the Americans would reach the Eastern Front, but I bet that they would They would have happened in 1943, somewhere around the Battle of Kursk. although I doubt whether they would have made it to the Battle of Stalingrad, unless of course they wanted to send Russian help so quickly. Although, in general, if we assumed that Britain would be neutral, in theory Germany could still trade with them, but perhaps Britain, under pressure from the US, would embargo Germany and especially oil. But if they hadn't done it, I bet that in the end the Germans would have "withstood" the war with difficulty but somehow. I'm not saying that they would push the Russians and Americans beyond the Urals, but in the long run, Germany is closer to the USSR than the USA, and if the Germans did not invest so much in the fleet and did not want to fight very much with the Americans, they could produce the same number of tanks as the Russians, no. but I doubt whether the Germans would try so hard to match the Russians in terms of numbers, especially if the USA also sent troops to the USSR. Although I think that probably if the USA were prudent, they would help the USSR, but only until they drove the Germans out of Russia, then they would ask the USSR to negotiate an armistice with Germany because they would be afraid of Soviet Europe. well, I bet that Roosevelt will hope for Soviet Europe to help him destroy colonial Britain. because Roosevelt hoped for a strong USSR which would weaken English colonialism
They would eat cats
Surely
It’s likely
Real
Yes
100%
Greece was then promptly betrayed by the Entente and left genocided in Anatolia OOF
Yup. Add the fact that Venizelos had been ousted from parliament thus GB's and FR's hype was killed off when the royals came back in charge, the royals had 0 vision for the Great Idea and were constantly infighting on what to do and Lenin provided weapons and supplies to the Neo-Ottomans.
30000 Greeks killed by Turks: Genocide
30000 Buildings burned by Greeks: “Accident”
@@Qwerka Genocide implies living beings. Buildings are not.
@@georgedevries3992 Good point. Tho some people called that point a shelter. I won’t be responding from now on.
@@Qwerka Actually it's a million Greeks murdered by the Turkish army. And the other thing you said is most likely a myth, but I digress. The destruction Turkey caused on Greece and Anatolia is far greater than Greece ever possibly could have, even if it wanted to
bro, what the fuck is this new thumbnail
Make video about Grees win the Greco-Turkish war
What If China 🇨🇳 and Japan 🇯🇵 stayed neutral in WW2
I'm not usually one to come up with Alternate History Ideas, but what if Mao Zedong's son, Mao Anying, who was both politically and military active, as well as having no (at least known or severe) mental health issues, unlike his brother Anqing, had not died in the Korean War fighting the U.S, but instead survived (whether of not he is wounded or not hit at all by the air strike that killed him is of little concern to me as long as he isn't dead or unfit to lead), and succeeded Mao as leader of China, creating a second dynastic Communist power in East Asia.
"This is not HOI4" I think he knows what his entire fanbase plays
Not HOI4? That implies that the game is unrealistic which cannot be true as I just saw 2 Italian tanks land in the Isle of man
I love how large gibraltar is
Possible history what, Dutch political party are you voting for?
I think if Greece joined, Greece and Bulgaria would sue for peace, once the other ones do, and so there wouldn't be any fighting on their soil and they might not lose any land
I could also see the other Central Powers get slightly nicer treaties (especially Austria-Hungary because Serbia might not gain that much land)
Without fighting Greece, the Turks could also be more successfull in their independence war and might successfully push for Mosul (something they tried to achieve in OTL)
Make a what if Venizelios becomes the Bismarck of Greece, and conquers Constantinople (Just like Bismarck did with Paris)
What if everything went perfect for Italy?
I want this video
We want this, we need this.
fr
I guess it starts with the First War of Italian Independence being a success, and Sardinia isn't forced to bargain away Savoie and Nizza to the French for their support.
And it could have Amedeo staying king of spain
Crunchy thumbnail.
What if everything went perfect for Romania/What if Romania entered WW1 on the side of the Central Powers/WW2 on the side of the Allies (before Barbarossa), please
Romania inherits the Roman Empire
why doesn't albania gain territory, 0/10, no greater albania 😔😔😔
What if history perfect Ukraine?
bro started riot when he deleted Ukraine idea (it's sad, i liked idea)
I like how basically any and all World War Two scenarios hurt the axis unless specifically designed to do otherwise. Shows just how unlikely it was for Germany to carry Italy so competently
This channel has a lot of BIAS on allied superiority. The truth is that don't believe it so much, although this man makes good scenarios, most of them (like this one) are very unrealistic.He always skips important things or advantages that the countries he talks about have and makes the allies almost invincible.
hitler postponed his invasion of the soviet union to take out yugo and greece after the failed italian invasion of greece. So with that logic: who knows what would happen to yugoslavia in this time line, and hitler would most likely delay his invasion of the soviets by a whole year if they do a failed invasion of turkey.... which could be terrible for allies. a germany not fighting the soviets could focus up and kill turkey and take the middle east and win in africa
Why does the Thumbnail have noticeably worser quality than usual?
Make a what if everything for Romania went perfect
I somehow read this as 'what if Greece joined the Axis Powers'
very literate 👍
Bro, what is that thumbnail? 💀
SUGGESTIONS
What if the crusades succeeded?
What if the Ottomans modernised?
What if Sweden won the Great Northern War?
What if France won the Franco-Prussian War?
What if China colonised Siberia?
What if the League of Three Emporerss succeeded?
What if England and the Netherlands remained in a union?
"What if the Ottomans modernised?" I don't see that happening even in a hypothetical scenario.
@@georgedevries3992 LOL
Idea: What If Carthage wins the Third Punic War?
good idea
That doesn’t exist
What if existed and won? @@TheJimminater08
@@barkankirecci6939 that is a great point
it was basically impossible at that point
I am very glad to see this scenario, I had been waiting for this for quite some time!
I mostly agree with this, though, I would like to point out that 7:35, that land you mentioned being given to Turkey was already part of the Ottoman Empire pre-war
The Bulgarian-Ottoman border didn't actually follow the Embros river, and in fact, the Germans promised that strip of land to Bulgaria if they joined the Central Powers
Overall though, that was a minor mistake but I am kinda of a map-nerd myself lmao
BTW your pronunciation of Venizelos was perfect
You mean the Evros AKA Maritsa river. But yes Bulgaria did end up getting a tiny strip between Tundzha river and Svilengrad after the war though of course had to cede much more terittory to Greece and Yugoslavia.
thumbnail 💀
am i the only one thinking the scenarios are getting boring and very uneventful?
Fr
what if kievan rus never got conquered by the mongols, and managed to fight them off
what if timur reunited the mongol empire
What if Qing China formed an alliance with the German Empire and the USA?? please make a video on this
Why is Bulgaria (or the "bulgars" as the are called) screwed in the most nasty ways?
Bad luck, I guess?
@@georgedevries3992 ig, but it doesnt make sense as to why he would make the post ww1 borders that he made in this video. Why would Greece be even given land from Bulgaria, when they were both in the same faction? Why would Bulgaria be left with this moxkery of a situation, where they technically still have a coast to the agean sea, but in practise its mostly useless and has no major city or port? Its barely even defencible.
You know someone is crazy, if someone is suggesting that Greece fight on the same side as Turkey! 😂😮 Even in the NAVO they go on war to each other, dìd you hear from Cyprus?!
"Even in the NAVO they go on war to each other, dìd you hear from Cyprus?!" Courtesy of Turkey.
Ngl a little disappointed there’s no mention of the communists during WWII, I’d imagine an axis government would be much more harsh on them so the civil war would either be non-existent or much more communist/popular front favored. Would’ve loved to have heard your thoughts on that
thumbnail is 2 pixels at most
I haven’t watched the video yet but let me guess entente still wins am I right?
I think in the second scenario, with an early entry of Greece into the war and bulgarian and greek troops sitting idle, Romania may not join the war.
If that happens Germany can keep pressure up on France in Verdun.
What if Hispanic America united in the first Pan-american congress?
What if Qing China formed an alliance with the German Empire and the USA???
Video 12 of asking Possible History for a video about "If Valery Sablin was succesful"
Yes let’s go
What if Qing China formed an alliance with the German Empire and the US???
what if everything went PERFECT for italy?
“But this isn’t hearts of iron 4” ✍🏿 🔥
Pls: Waht if the American los the Independence war
Please dont call bulgarians bulgars Those are 2 different type of People bulgars are turkic Bulgarians are slavs
Sadly no meation of the Greek Genocide, even though the Dutch parliament recognized it in 2015.
It's a tragedy that not many people know of. I guess the Greeks need to make a bigger fuss about it like the Jews do to this day regarding the Holocaust.
hello guys! while making this comment, i have 40 minutes of my birthday left.
Where I am you’d have an extra 4 hours for just over 3 hours remaining
What if Iran joined the central powers???
Can you do a what if everything went perfect for imperial Japan?
What if Al-Andalus colonised Brazil??
Idea: what if the Czechoslovak revolt suceeded in 1969
What if the Inca Empire survived??
that's not king contantine, that's just J.K. simmons with a moustache
What if everything went perfect for the swedish empire
What if everything went perfect for…
Serbia/Yugoslavia?
Greece?
Japan?
What if Denmark and Norway went to war in 1933?
(Please do a what if everything went perfect for Norway scenario)
Bro MIGHT be Swedish
pls
I'm more interested to the ongoing drama of Ukraine idea being deleted. Please make an alternate video of what if the idea wasn't deleted.
Why do the eyes in the thumbnail look like that
Day 2 of asking possible history to make What if Sweden Won the Great Northern War
you should really do what if the ottomans joined the entente as the ottomans would survive ww1 and greece would probably join the central powers
the funny thing is that the ottomans tried to ally themselves with the british and the french before they eventualy aligned themselves with the germans
Nice!
Is this your first Greece-centred video? Not counting the peloponnesian war video you did or any ones based on ancient times.
You know, I'd you should make a video about * "What if everything went perfect for Greece" *, but as far as I know, through its modern history, Greece did like, about as perfect as it could. It only lost two of the wars it fought in (Greco-Turkish war of 1987 and Greco-Turkish war of 1919, you could also count the Greco-Cypriot Enosis which failed) while on every other war it won well enough (in ww2 greece got occupied but it was on the winning side and also absolutely humiliated italy so that counts as a win right?). I can see things going better ( _cough cough_ Constantinopolis _cough cough_ ) but over all Greece really did in a way 'perfect'...
_ignore the economical crisis, shut up_
I have an alt history proposition. Where would I submit it?
What if the united nations federalized
cool
"Italy would get some lands from little Greece."
I dont think you understand how Zervas would take that opinion at the treaty signage
Watching with subtitles: “Venezuela is put in charge of a temporary Greek government“ 😂
He meant Venizelos
What if the Central powers didn't give up in 1918?
What if history went perfect for sweden🗣🔥🗣🔥🗣🔥🗣🔥🗣
I understand the spirit of this video, but Greece joining the Axis powers would be highly unlikely. Greeks fought tooth and nail in the Balkan wars and during WW2 against both Italy and Germany, fair proof of their high idealism. Their historical footprint and dna goes against allying with the Germans at the time, for sure. Same seeing famously neutral Turkey being aligned strongly towards the Allies.
In both world wars, Greece reveived very little land and recongnision despite fighting heroicly and aiding the allies in the best way any other country did. In ww2, Greece pushed back the Italians and held up then against the: Italians,Germans and Bulgarians for a lot amount of time. All the Greeks were hoping sor AT LEAST: Sicily and southern Italy, until even Naples, parts of Albania, until like some km away from Tirana, some parts of Bulgaria (like 1/8) and the most importand of all, Constantinople. My grandmother said that the greeks were saying that as long as they had Constantinople and ofc mainland Greece, they didnt need anything else.
Why the invading Entent armies in northern Greece were O.K. and the greek governement shouldn't react but on the contrary it should react when the Bulgarians invaded too?
Actually the greek army wasn't pro Venizelos coup d' 'etat.Only a minority of officers.
If you were looking at the map when these events took part would someone see that the king was no pro-Central Powers.He was just rational.
Iirc early in the war the Germans tried to get Greece to join the war on their side by promising them parts of south Serbia (now North Macedonia) , which Venizelos of course refused. in my opinion there's absolutely no way that Greece might have joined the Central Powers unless Bulgaria or the Ottomans or both joined the Entente (very unlikely)
PS. I think on your map you've drawn Ottoman Thrace a little smaller than it actually was.
This is not hoi4🤣
I wonder - if Greece had joined the Central Powers, would Winston Churchill be less inclined to help them during WW2? Thus, more troops, and equipment, are left in North Africa to stop Rommel.
Is the Microsoft paint
In reality, there's no way would Greece have ever allied with their strategic adversaries Bulgaria and the Ottomans, especially Bulgaria at the time