What if America and Britain Went to War in 1933?
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- Опубликовано: 13 июн 2024
- #possiblehistory #ph
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In a similar vain, here's a thought, what if France and Britain refused to back down during the Suez crisis, and The US and The Soviet Union decided to collaborate militarily against them?
*vein. Interesting idea, though.
It sounds like the Biafra War during the Cold War.
I think it would just be nuclear war...
One of the big reasons for the USA standing on the side of Egypt was because the USSR was threatening NUCLEAR WAR.
It may well have been a bluff, but you can imagine the USA would rather risk losing its closest ally than letting said ally bring about the potential end of human civilisation.
With hindsight, it was a bit of a dick move by the US, but absolutely was the lesser of two evils.
As an interesting side note, another reason the US supported Egypt was the fact that they wanted to leave the door open for nurturing closer ties with the Middle East in future, to keep them away from the Soviets.
Of course, with hindsight we now know that such reasoning was pointless years later.
Sounds interesting I hope he sees that
i like this idea a lot
Every Modern Empire isn't even on the list anymore 😭😭😭😭😭
Is there a timestamp?
7:36 it does say it’s still open to change
We need to make our petition
@@The_whales Thank you
And the danelaw
The UK: You underestimate my power!
The US: Don't try it
Britain never really had power after ww1, even in 1939, hence why France fell incredibly quickly during ww1. in realty, both nations lacked any real power on the world stage
@@user-bo6ru6rk3d Britain did have power just not a lot due to the short time they had, They had a navy that could protect the isle and the RAF to stop the Germans in the battle of Britain i wouldn't say that they were very powerful but they where the 3rd most powerful on the allied side
@@SandboxRaptorthe only reason America and the USSR were strong after the war is because America had money given to it by Britain and free france because the ussr was only around 6th strongest on earth and the USA was around 5th
@Noahshistoryandmapping you got that backwards. The US has to offer massive discounts to Britain before the US joined. The US is fabulously rich.
Can anyone please share me a link to possible history discord
Please do a scenario where as part of the Russian sale of Alaska, the US and Russia sign a mutual defense pact against UK and Japan. People don't realize that Russia and US both had concerns about both, and that the UK and Japan where very close between the 1870s and 1920s
This would really go smooth until the Russo-Japan war; and the constant thread of the UK joining in.
Yeah, it’s kinda ironic looking back at the closeness of two natioms who today despise eachother
@@Joobaiyes OP didn't say Russia and US were close. He said they had "mutual concerns" which means a hot load of nothing in reality.
@@Joobaiyes Britain and Japan, Japan and China, USA and the Soviet Union. Etc.
@@Joobaiyesthey only despise each other thanks to the USSR
Wake up babe, new Possible History just dropped
Bro what are you talking about I'm your roommate
@@void_fruit212 talking about me dw
oke
Can anyone please share me link to possible history discord
It's just too late for Britain. Sure, they were at their territorial peak, but the British Empire was already in decline for a long time before that, whilst the US was on the rise.
Check your spelling please 😂
That’s irrelevant the Americans are fighting against Britain and Japan combined in a two front naval war.
Navy’s number 1 and 3 would easily decimate number 2 before it ever could hope to reach number 1.
That’s not even taking into account the possibility of France’s entry.
@@MCLegend13And that gives them the opportunity to properly win the war in America how? That gives them the opportunity to retake Canada?
Despite the importance of Canada
America wasn’t completely an overseas America, even if the UK and Japan win the Naval war it overall would be an unnecessary war
@@kurocchi5190 they couldn’t retake Canada but what I’m saying is it’s impossible for America to take anything else. Britain would enforce a naval Blockade of the Atlantic and America couldn’t send its entire navy to break the blockade as Japan would be making repaid gains in the pacific.
And if France joins the war it seals the deal for America on the seas their global trade would be devastated.
In the end both sides would be to sick of the war and sue for a peace Britain would loose Canada in exchange Britain and France gain the American Caribbean and Japan gets the Philippines and splits the American pacific holdings with the dominions of Australia and Newzealand.
Imagine in this timeline Germany invites America to the axis due to their mutual enemies instead of Japan.
More likely the UK allied with Germany
And then Japan joins allies, China joins axis 😮. Wonder how this changes the Pacific and Soviet-German war
America under Roosevelt (or any of the candidates in 1932, 1936, or 1940) wouldn't cooperate with the Nazis, like, at all, ever. You would need a significantly earlier and major POD.
Dude I love how the maps look I don’t even know how to explain it, they just tingle my brain so much
Real
Can anyone please share me link to possible history discord
Same brother
"This video explores a purely hypothetical scenario" yes,,, this is an alternate history video,,, this is what I am here for king
When there's a really unrealistic scenario I always imagine someone timetravelling specifically to change it.
This was for sure done by a bunch of drunk interns from America, England, Canada and one guy from Portugal who were arguing about who'd win and happened to be just lucky and persuasive enough to test it out.
What if Alaska was sold to Lichtenstein. Russia originally offeres Alaska to the landlocked(at the time, it is now double landlocked meaning it only borders landlocked nations) micro nation of Lichenstein, and they understandably declined.
this 100% needs a continuation, what a dope scenario
What really needs a continuation is the WW2 three way war video
More like what a sad scenario
@@savedata1987threesome*
It’s very inaccurate if you understand basic naval history and military logistics.
Also America after taking Canada and causing the Indian to revolt for independence they would eventually just wait till Britain exhausts itself and just force them to sign a peace Britain would be.
Il give you my continuation.
Britain after loosing Canada and India would fall to Facsim under King Edward The 8th and Oswald Mosley.
The British Empire would ally with the Third Reich and Italian state in order for them to maintain their still massive African, Middle Eastern and Far Eastern empire.
The dominions of Australia and Newzealand have similar government changes as does South Africa. The 3 remaining dominions form their own alliance with Britain and the weakened but still not quite out Japan who now are just as extremist as Europe.
France would fall under civil war shortly after Spains one finished but the Facist would win easily thanks to being militarily aided by Spain, Italy, Germany and Britain. All 4 European Facists along side Spain, Greece, Portugal Hungary, and Bulgaria, all form the Axis. And begin planning their expansion goals.
They would adjust borders of Europe with
French expansion into Belgium and Luxembourg,
German Expansion into Austria, Czechoslovakia, Denmark and Poland,
Italian Expansion into Yugoslavia and most of Albania.
British Expansion into Ireland, Iceland and Norway, which Sweden too would take some of.
Bulgarian expansion into Macedonia and parts of Romania.
And Greek expansion into parts of Yugoslavia and the rest of Albania.
And Hungarian expansion into the rest of Yugoslavia and Transylvania.
And Spain and Portugal Merging to form Iberia.
WW2 would officially begin as the Euro Soviet War With Japan siding with Europe against the Soviets. And America would remain neutral but possibly eventually join after British and Japanese do an attack on the pacific fleet at Pearl Harbour and the Atlantic fleet in US Occupied former British colony of Bermuda.
Americas Navy on both coasts is completely knocked out of the war for atleast half a year allowing for Britain and Japan to go rampant in the Atlantic and pacific.
Not sure how to go from there give me some ideas?
If the americans avoid a naval battle wouldn't britian just raid the coast so if they protect the coast a naval battle would happen , I believe that the USA wouldn't have a wipeout win especially if japan is helping. I believe that at least, this would be a 1816 scenario
I would surely see the UK try a Pearl harbour style attack
you mean 1812?
@@sovietdominion Which, is what they did against Italy OTL at Taranto before Pearl Harbour.
@@somerandompersonidk2272 exactly
The reason that wouldn't happen is the British Fleet was too Heavy, they'd doctrinally married themselves to the Idea of a Decisive battle.
And bringing their Heavy ships that close to the East Coast which was already dotted with Air Bases would just be suicide.
And because they'd focused so much effort on the Heavy ships. They didn't have enough Crusiers and down (which was a MASSIVE part of lend lease that gets overlooked) meaning detaching enough of those ships for that kind of raid would leave them in the same scenario. Their Heavyweights completely exposed to American retaliation.
It's the same reason they got mauled by the IJN in WWII the British hyperfocus on large Decisive Battles left their fleet without the ability to actually adapt and dangerously vulnerable to anyone who didn't want to play that game.
Which being fair to the British here, was the right choice, as their navy at the time was mostly focused on Countering the German Navy who were equally obsessed over Decisive Battles. The Royal Navy as policy had a "Do Not get into that fight" stance on the IJN and USN.
As for the Japanese here, it's basically just the Pacific Front half a decade earlier. The IJN of 1936 had the exact same issues as the IJN WWII, they've just got more logistical wiggle room here. War Plan Orange, already called for just cutting off the IJA and IJN and letting them wither on the Vine, except here there's not really a massive Logistical Wack a Mole for the USN to deal with in the Atlantic.
In fact Potential History is being VERY Generous with the British here, because their IRL plan wasn't just "Don't reinforce Canada" it was "Bribe the US with Canada so we don't have to fight them." THAT'S how poorly British High Command actually rated their chances of winning a Prolonged War with the US at the time.
Man this format worked.
You should have considered an alternative Axis with Brtiain.
So basically, Asia gets the good ending and Europe gets the bad ending
I think Europe was always going to get a bad ending.
Asia and America tbh
If you understand naval history and infrastructure you’d understand that America didn’t start their huge build up thill the early 40s this is still the early 30s so it’s hardly accurate plus Britain and Japan combined easily would out match the American navy of the 30s.
@@ayeeeeeeee6240 nah at least Trudeau wouldn't become president, would take Biden over him any day.
@@MCLegend13 Lime detected
I believe that some of the naval aspects of this sanario are inaccurate. One of these is the absence of the Panama canal, which would have been needed to transfer the US naval units from each seabord. The other is that the shipbuilding graph ignores the difference in size of drydocks which limits what can be built. This means that in terms of capital ships it is likely that the uk and Japan can keep up which with their fleet dispersed means an atlantic campaign by the Americans l would be less decisive than indicated by this video.
The US still controlled the Panama Canal
@@stargazer-eliteBut the british could seize the Panama canal early on.
@@mihel1640 this would be on Americas side of the pond they would already have it fortified
@@stargazer-eliteIf Britain invades the Panama Canal very early in the war, it’ll cause 1 of 2 scenarios to happen:
1. The US Fleet sails out to meet the British Fleet, successfully creating the conditions for the decisive naval battle Britain was looking for.
2. The US doesn’t attempt to contest the British fleet, resulting in the canal falling and the US fleet being effectively split in half.
Neither scenario is good for the US
@@Phrogoid well said sir well said. Yeah if this war happened a decade later I 100% agree with all the points Possible history said but this is the early 1930s not the 1940s.
US and UK: Went to War in 1933
Hitler who just came to power: bruh
Want a fun fact he actually thought this would actually happen but wanted Britain to win.
@@MCLegend13He also thought we would be allied with him.
UK: Is seen as the bad guy for invading Ireland
Canada getting invaded by the US at the start of the war for no reason: Am I a joke to you?
Possible Histroy threw logic and common sense out of the window for this one.
Canada was a dominion of the UK, and would base British troops and fleets, as well as fight on their behalf. At the very least they would be considered a military ally of the British. Ireland, in contrast, was not a dominion of the US, nor a military ally in this scenario. But a British invasion would be very likely anyway.
And it's not like it's the first time the British would attack a neutral power, ask the Danes.
@@shorewall irrelevant because America still invaded first and the dominions had significant autonomy so nope your point is noted but still very contradictory.
@@shorewallStill, Canada in theory could declare neutrality since they were pretty much independent. So America invading them after that still wouldn't help their case of not being the bad guy in this war
Oh boy. Britain is in for a ROUGH time
On land yes but on sea ask the Germans French, or Spanish what happens
@@MCLegend13
Plus how much of America's industry and population centers were in battleship shelling range at the time pre 1940's America still needs time to ramp up its capabilities that will be seriously hampered if they get shelled.
@@Kakarot64. exactly pre 1940s America needs at least half a decade or more to fully ramp up. And let’s not even begin to talk about American logistics at this period.
@@MCLegend13 Still, Britain can basically only win the naval war, and the RAF can't bomb much of the U.S. Industry. Also, even if Britain destroyed the navy, the U.S. would just rebuild the navy, and as said, makes it a more and more unwinnable war for the British.
@@mrsillytacos I mean most of the american build up didnt happen untill the early 40s.
and if Japans on Britains side that equalises the gap even if America builds up massivley.
not to mention britain has the most advanced and Experienced Naval Infrastucture in the world. they too could easily respond to any american build up in the same way they did with Germany.
and thats before you even take into account the japanese 8 8 program.
Britain alone sure they may loose but the Anglo Japanese Alliance easliy could win you will never be able to convince me other wise.
What if France held on to it's Colonial empire
it has
Even harder?
@@Tommuli_HaudankaivajaIm hard
@@savedata1987why are you and eddie white
A best case scenario might start with a big colonial reform right after WW1. It could be motivated by realpolitk and recognition of colonial troops achievements in the war.
Avoiding the humiliation of capitulation in WW2 is a must have. Temporarily moving the capital in Alger would mitigate this issue and justify further reforms for the French colonial Empire.
By playing its cards right, France could end up with some sort of loose commonwealth of Nations in Africa / Asia.
Keeping Algeria as proper France would be hard, but possible IMO. Especially if France is ready to only keep parts of it. It would involve recognising and dividing the local Arabs/Berbers, increasing european settlement and maybe giving up chunks of the country preventively : idealy by keeping the coastline and adding Arab / Kabyles / Minor Berber states to the aforementioned commonwealth.
Bottom line: Britain should have stayed out of WW1, and maintained their alliance with Japan
Same applies for WW2
If britain did that, it is hard telling how powerful they would be in the modern day
Possible history has just posted another video (my day has been made)
This would lead to a very different and interesting world perhaps a part 2 to explore this idea?
He mentioned at the end that that he will continue the scenario with the focus being a nazi vs soviet war without us intervention
@@lordInquisitorBritain would be Facist as they would be vengeful at America for the loss of Canada and India.
under pro German king Edward the 8th and pro German and Italian prime minister Oswald Mosley. They would want to maintain their still vast African + Middle and Far Eastern Empire.
Also forget the part where he said America would strip Australia and New Zealand away from the empire they would realistically just give up the war after Taking Canada and causing India’s independence and just fight till Britain eventually exhausts itself and backs off.
France would become facist too as they are surrounded by Fascists in Germany, Italy, Spain and now Britain too.
The French would likely fall under a civil war similar to Spain as they were pretty unstable at the time. But because they are surrounded the Facist would win in France.
Europe would be a completely facist or nationalist continent apart from Ireland, Poland, the Baltics, Benelux, and Scandinavia. As the only surviving democracy’s left.
What if you continued this alternate universe and explore a different world war 2 and cold war
What if the uk built an indestructible bridge to france in 1935?
Whatcha mean
With land
@@_Zofwell……
Wouldn’t it be invaded before the world wars and not exist?
@@DinoRickychanged it
I don't think that's... y'know, Possible History..?
2:58 Is that a Serbian flag in the corner of the waving flag?
True looks like it
Genuinely love how your maps get increasing detailed each video as you have more time to increase accuracy
Note: He doesn't take into consideration that American military training was terrible compared to British training at the time.
That doesn’t matter when pensaylvannia produces more weapons in a year than the axis in the entirety of ww2 the Americans will simply out produce britian and get a decisive victory it’s why IMO the Cold War wasn’t because the Soviet Union and America both had the same firepower capability potential cause America far eclipsed them but it’s the fact that the nuclear weapon was new and terrifying and the Soviets got ahold of it
Yeah Britain would’ve been dominating at the start. Until of course the US just draft twice as many soldiers as the UK has people.
@@Gustavosusfring69420I highly doubt the us army would have 80-90 million soldiers because uk population at that time was there or near abouts 🥴 also you need to consider the fact that millions of men from the empires would have been conscripted too….
@@Gustavosusfring69420Its almost like britian has an empire with literally 25% of earth living in it. The US doesn't remotely have a numbers advantage
It wouldn't be a Possible History video if it didn't get half the things wrong :x
Whats wrong with
@@SquidMonke4He never mentioned the Panama canal, and blocking it would cut the US Navy in half and deprive the Atlantic fleet from a lot of reinforcements since most of the US's ship building are in the West coast.
@@imlivingunderyourbed7845 with Canada Invasion, surely they would plan to fortify Panama Canal and UK would have more on their hands than attempting a distant invasion under US Naval supremacy. So Panama Canal can be left out I guess
@@761sttankbattalion They don't need to land troops into Panama. Just blockading the canal even from one side is enough to freeze the flow of ships there.
theres literally no way he can 100% accurately predict what would have happened because it didn’t happen, THATS THE POINT
1:08 Is it known why there is a blur bar between 'the' and 'company'?
7:34 what if estonia had captured st.petersburg thank you for putting that on the planning board ive personally wanted a video about that for a while
I'd liked to see that scenario. It wouldn't make the whites win the civic war so easy, since most of the red moved to Moscow, and most of industrial capacity were in central Russia, but it will cripple their morale and naval force, whom played first role in revolution, and not last in fight in the Baltic
@@tenshihinanawi4546 When Estonia was nearing St. Petersburg, the civil war had already ended. The soviets had won and wanted to retake Estonia, but many White Russians defected to Estonia, which helped them push close to the city. It may have restarted the civil war however.
We need “If history Went perfect for Mexico”!
It would be annexed into America. Lol
@@demarcomixon with the crazy amount of Mexicans in the US, I think that will not be possible
@@demarcomixon cuz we are proud cartellians
@@demarcomixon 🇲🇽🇲🇽🇲🇽🇲🇽🇲🇽🇲🇽
@@SerdarBerdimuhproud cartels more like 😂
Of course, there's lots of reasons to plan wars against your friends. It makes you examine all kinds of potentially useful possibilities that you might not consider when studying your enemies. It can be useful in aiding your if your ally if it is attacked since you had to really examine their strengths and weaknesses. Military staffs need to stay in practice. You may find weaknesses in your military, or your allies, that might have been overlooked. And so on...
Please continue this its super interesting
This is absolutely great i am hyped for the Next episodes
Yes apart from the fact where America magically makes a huge Navy about a decade before the could in ww2 and during the Great Depression…
@@geo.m1639 exactly the two ocean naval act wasn’t even a thing until after Japan left the Second London Naval Treaty in 1937 using the escalator cause.
Also the new built ship yards and dockyards and other infrastructure wouldn’t be properly finished and constructed till the early 40s and This is 1933.
Half of the newer American ships wouldn’t have even begun construction yet and as for Britain the only ships they wouldn’t have access to is the KGVs as they too didn’t begin construction till a few years later.
Dang Your right@@MCLegend13
What if The Paris Commune Suceeded?
i feel like during this timeline, Britain and Germany could consider becoming allies? Since having mutual enemies and their interests might've aligned a little better
100%, and the USSR would then ally with USA.
Love It!
More Of This Timeline Please! ^^
Great video
I will keep asking for this funny idea :)
Instead of “what if Germany kept trying” do “what if France kept trying”
1871 - France loses Franco Prussian war, cedes Alsace Laurene to Germany
1914-1919 - France’s loses the weltkreig, and cedes the border region of Alsace, cedes Nancy, dunkirk, and Lillie, while Germany annexes Luxembourg and the all the land up to the Meuse river, while making a puppet of Belgium. Also France ends up undergoing a far left revolution and the original government flees to Africa
1939-1945 - France loses the second weltkrieg, and cedes the area around Calais and up to Amiens, which is given to Germanys Belgian puppet. France’s original government is restored to power under restrictions
1948 - France loses 3rd weltkreig, forced to cede the Lorraine plateau behind the cities of Nancy and Metz, and also cedes all of the French alps to Italy, while Switzerland also gains land up to annecy, furthermore, britanny gains full independence while France itself becomes a complete puppet government of Germany, permanently.
The problem i see with this scenario is that yes, the Americans have a better industry, but since it was mainly on the coast or directly bordering Canada, it could have been crippled at the beginning of the conflict. And if the US were the one attacking, the probability for Britain getting support from other countries would be greater.
Tbh even if the Canadians started conflict the Americans genuinely planned to use chemical weapons against the civilian targets so Britain would at least get France on its side maybe if promised some of the American Caribbean holdings.
And potentially Italy if promised that Britain and France wouldn’t oppose any Italian expansion into Yugoslavia, or Albania or Abyssinia.
Japan is for sure joining to get the Philippines and as much of the American Pacific as possible.
And as for Germany the Austrian painter saw war between Britain and America as inevitable but wanted Britain to win. So yeah Britains fine.
4 of the big 5 of the Washington naval treaty even if America has its huge naval build up to eclipse Britain. But Britain and Japan together easily stand a chance and adding in France and Italy would easily tip the balance.
Thats not even taking into account that the 🇬🇧 Royal Navy, 🇯🇵 Imperial Navy, 🇮🇹 Regia Marina and 🇫🇷 Marine National would all be responding with ships of their own.
not to mention with everyone distracted with America Germany would be quietly building away and making the 🇩🇪 Kreigsmarine larger too tho probably not by much as their infrastructure couldn’t support much.
And who knows maybe even they join just to show good will to Britain and in order to distract them from their own plans.
It wouldn’t be a fun war for America even if it’s just Britain and Japan alone if just one other European country allies with Britain it becomes a nightmare Let alone multiple European countries.
@@MCLegend13is it possible for the Soviet union to join on America's side in this war?
@@MCLegend13and I think it would be more like china, us, Soviet union vs Britain, Canada, France, Italy and Germany.
@@JahkiCaryand Japan
@@JahkiCarytbh if that happened the war would be such a stalemate that in the end everyone would get so exhausted everyone would just call for a cease fire because. Yes The USA, USSR, China and possibly the recently a rebelling India are huge in population and land area but the other side inn doubtably has the larger navy and adding all of Europes factory’s they are probably the bigger industry too. So it would just end up being a huge stalemate with millions upon millions dead.
You should really continue this scenario! It seems like it would make a great video
You HAVE to continue this scenario !!
Bulgariaaaa
Bulgariaaaaa
Bulgariaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Bulgaria :)
Nah but bulgaria is cooked in that world😭
What the fuck is political stabilityyyyyy!? 🦁🦁🦁
This was very good here. It might be interesting to explore later some of the other colorful war plans of the United States, such as War Plan Orange against the Empire of Japan and War Plan Black against the German Empire. Or the war plans for the invasion of the United States and the United Kingdom by the German Empire.
What a fun video to watch first thing in the afternoon! W ❤️
I want to know where you found these so I can look at them
i need a part 2 plz papa possible 🙏😭
19 views in 2 minutes? Bro is famous.
Can you make a sort of part 2 basically continuing WW2 after these events
Great video!
What if Norway and Denmark Went to War in 1933? (Not an impossible scenario for once)
(Please do a what if everything went perfect for Norway scenario)
For Canada not being that important it was sure called upon heavily during both the world wars and after to support the "mother country".
One sided relationship. UK always saw its colonies as servants.
6:23 : paradox deciding how big to make iwo jim’s in hoi4
I have some interesting scenario. It is a story about " what if Siam (Thailand) didn't dispel the Russo-Siamese crown prince from royal family during end of Rama-5 and become Tsar of southeast Asian. Also, mother of crown prince name " Екатерина Иванова Десницыки " and father is name "Chakrabon". Disclaimer This act of comment didn't meant to " Overthrow the current monarchy, just introduce for educational and entertainment purpose "
Make a video about What if bojinka plot succeeded
Now do what if Francisco Morazan's Centroamerica succeeded/what if everything went perfect for the United Provinces of Centroamerica
Interesting is there going to be a part two
Really interesting scenario that could be explored more if it wasn't so hard to predict what could happen next. Honestly still my favorite alt-history channel since I discovered you about a year ago.
Avarage hoi4 playthrough as usa:
Rule britania britania Rules the waves
Anchors Away my boys, Anchors Away! 🇺🇸
@@nightwatcher114wrong that’s not how the rest of the lyrics go it goes
“Britons never never ever shall be slaves”
@@nightwatcher114Ah yes I love how America magically produced a fleet and destroyed britain. PH got extremely lazy towards the end of the video but it did start well
@@geo.m1639 for real lol
@@geo.m1639The largest navy on planet earth and most experienced one (probably) just sits and waits for the largest industrial power to produce a lot of ships that will have the skills to sort out the recently former largest navy on earth. It makes sense yeah. They say Britain got no land army. Certainly has enough well battle hardened troops to put on a few island and load them up with supplies preventing USA to move further and closer to the USA in years time even if USA sorts out the royal navy.
Can you do this but around 1900? I think it would be a lot more interesting to see ww1 develope around this conflict
When is the next stream planned?
I am very skeptical about the notion that Canada would be able to hold the front for years, yes a few months of hard fighting, and then collapse. On another front, your scenario for some reason disregards the UK's ability to gain allies in Europe, I highly doubt that only Portugal would join the UK, I believe that the conditions that made the war between the UK and the USA possible will also bring France into the equation, not to mention that Hitler Germany would enthusiastically support the UK even without direct entry into the conflict, in any case, wars between great powers have the tendency to drag small neutrals, so it is inevitable that colonial positions of Holland and Denmark in the Americas and Asia will see combat too, ironically, this could end up becoming a war between the small imperialist powers of Europe and Japan against the continental giants of the USA, USSR and China!
That adds an anti-colonial motivation which the US, USSR, and China (who was currently being invaded by Japan) would love to push. Supporting nativist uprisings in the colonies to leave them free yet weak, ready to enter the US sphere of Influence as the new World Naval Power. (From an American POV. :D)
It would be interesting to see what strange bedfellows there would be. With Hitler in Germany, he would love to fight the USSR on the same page as UK and France. With the need to support USSR, but a hostile UK or Japan in between, I think the Pacific takes on greater importance, since all 3 powers can focus on solely Japan. On the other hand, China has less desires outside of the Pacific region, so maybe let them handle most of the fighting there, with support from US and USSR, while they pincer Europe from both sides.
I think getting support to China and USSR is essential, however, so it still comes down to winning the Naval war in the Pacific. If Japan is dealt with, and the war can shift its focus to Europe, maybe the Chinese can be transported via rail in USSR to help the European front, if the Soviets have enough trust. Depending on how the war is going might sway their minds.
India would be a wild card. A huge aspect of diplomacy would be getting India to not help, even if it be by rebellion or even civil war. It would be difficult for China and India to fight a direct land war, but Indian troops could bolster the Euro forces. If they sit out, it throws a huge wrench into their plans.
I think the US is vulnerable to the Naval war, at least in the course of a normal war. They could eventually build up their navy, but it would take a while. Once Canada was firmly in US hands, and could be had in the peace deal, calls for peace in the US would be strong. Ironically, the only thing that could change that is successful action on the UK's side. If they do too well, then the US might just get pissed off and decide to go for as long as it takes.
I have to disagree with this thinking here. Japan would almost certainly join the war, and the UK would immediately hit Panama from British Honduras or the West Indies. This would essentially cut the US fleet in half, and with most of their shipbuilding concentrated on the pacific side, the UK could easily reinforce Canada via the Atlantic. Even on the Pacific side, Japan could fairly quickly hit Alaska, and Hawaii would fall quickly. Throw imperial troops and Japanese troops into Canada, and the fact that the UK and Japanese would almost certainly have air dominance with their more advanced air forces, I don't see any way the US could realistically win this scenario. If the war was postponed for 3-4 more years, then I don't see any way the US could lose, but from 33 its a sure-fire UK-Japanese win.
Doesn’t really change the outcome there’s no way that the us surrenders early
One thing you missed Canada whould have been knocked out and an proper invasion will mean bankrupting the empire
Mainland USA has a larger population than UK, Japan, and Canada put together. Even if all of your points came true, and they poured troops in, the US would mass Mobilize like the Soviets did to defend their homeland.
I do think that the US is weaker in the Naval power, but fighting a land war in North America would be worse than fighting a land war in China at the time. Like the Japanese said about a potential invasion of Mainland USA, there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.
And it wouldn't be like fighting 3rd worlders over a far flung colony. It would be fighting a peer opponent, with a lot of land barrier, in their home turf. And every troop you send has to cross an ocean. And China and USSR are just as likely to want to fight the Japanese.
@@shorewallThis was 1933, so the US was still struggling from the Great Depression. Their economy would not be doing great either. Not to mention at the time, British forces had much better training than Americans at the time
@@shorewallBut the entire US doesn't need to be invaded. Realistically the whole blade of grass thing isnt relevant. The US capital is pretty close to canada , the British Empire and Japan really don't need to take that much of the US and in terms of population the british empire had a way larger population than the US did and if push came to shove could easily mobalise practically innumerable amounts of men to fight
Please make every modern empire video
Hey! You're still working on Every Modern Empire, right?
This is also assuming the other American countries don’t join the war on americas side once the tides turn which I know for sure they would.
US could fan the flames of anti-colonialism.
Why would they do that though?
@@RoyalRegimentofScotland well considering Argentina went against Britain BY ITSELF irl it wouldn’t be a stretch that they would try to seize the falklands with American help
America in this timeline would be 2-1 agaisnt the British. Depending on if you consider the war of 1812 a victory for Britain or not
It’s also a 2v1 so it wouldn’t be an American victory at all people who say that don’t understand naval warfare and don’t understand how advanced British naval ship building infrastructure truly was back then.
Just look into any historical case of a 2 front war it really doesn’t go well for anyone who is on the receiving end of having to fight one.
It would be 3-0
I mean the US would most likely literally never win a war vs the UK in this scenario anyway especially since its practically a 2v1. 1933 US was no where near as strong as the british empire was let alone the british empire and Japan. The US wasn't even a superpower till practically a decade later
@@Mark-nx5pk you're delusional if you think the USA won 1812
Man, this new season of Red Vs Blue is wild.
Please continue the scenario as a mini series with this new German Soviet scenario please! Maybe with both choices between a prepared France or still the one in our timeline too
if japan alone was able to fight the usa one on one in our timeline. before the naval expansion in the late 1930s, the UK and Japan would obliterate any pacific naval forces very quickly, it would be more likely for panama to fall and from there a anglo-japanese fleet would be a match for any american one, also the usa would most likely underestimate submarine capabilities as they did in real life and lose many ships.
Saying that the US fleet would be obliterated isn't accurate, for one, Japan would enter later in the war, long enough for the US fleet to expand further, second, the Panama canal falling isn't likely, the US would've known the importance of the Panama Canal and would've reinforced it heavily, not to mention the extreme distant naval invasion required to invade it, and third, it is highly unlikely that an anglo-japanese fleet would form, one: both would be far away from each other. Two: There is a massive language barrier between the two fleets. And three: the navy of the British empire is spreadout across the empire, and would rather protect shipping by this point rather than do any offensive operation.
Actually no, the Japanese managed a surprise attack on the US that crippled their navy, that's why it sucked so much. However ever since 1942 when the US Navy recovered, Japan was doomed to fail. The only way the British could win is by acting a surprise attack, but given the Industrial capabilities shown by the US, this would just delay the inevitable.
Also, the american military was pathetic at the time. Britain was a global empire and Japan was a determined militaristic nation, together they would crush the USA easily.
@@footisman2059 yeah no, this isn't 1812 anymore.
Japan really weren't able to fight the US 1v1.
they had the element of surprise and enough speed at the start to get the advantage, and once that ended they could only fiercely defend what they captured, add the fact that pearl harbor would never happen and Japan would have an even harder time defending the gains.
and as he said, once the UK is out or if China joins the war on the US side the Japan is done for
What if everything went right for Iran/Persia??
Would be pretty cool considering how it could impact the Ottomans, Russians and British possessions 😊
Starting when ? Sassanid Persia could become a world superpower if you start early on enough
@@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547 I feel like the most interesting scenario would be either during the Safavid; Iran overcoming the Ottomans (maybe taking their place) or during the Qajar period; with them evading the great game and resisting the russian and British invasions that took so much of their territory and reduced them to a backwater.
There is no mention of the Panama Canal here, but surely the most obvious thing to do for the British and Japanese is to capture or at least blockade the canal to isolate the US Pacific and Atlantic fleets.
I dont know if this would be your style, but I'd like to hear you analyze some of the nations that could've (Brazil and India) been UNSC Permanent Members, and some others that have been working for it recently. I know Brazil, India, Japan and Germany have all been pushing for seats recently.
For the Brazil and India thing, VERY early on while the plans were being worked on, the USSR wanted a country that would also say no to the US along side it, because it was the USSR, USA, UK and the Republic of China at the time, and before France, america offered to appoint Brazil to the UNSC. For India, instead of the PRC taking Taiwans spot on the UNSC, America offered to instead change its spot for India, but India said no.
I loved the part where you explained how the Americans magically took over the Atlantic… there’s no way the Americans would be able to attack British shipping from suez with no bases anywhere near Europe
He’s got no knowledge in naval history so don’t blame him
Anyone with even the small amount of naval history knowledge like me knows America wouldn’t be able to achieve that.
At least the way I saw the Americans attacking Mediterranean shipping was them spawn camping ships coming through the Strait of Gibraltar
my understanding was that the US seized the azores from portugal due to british use of them as a naval base.
@@cosmosyn2514 America would be blockaded and simultaneously fighting Japan aka not being able to deploy their whole navy to counter Britains blockade this video really makes no sense there are so many inaccuracy’s especially since the major American 2 ocean building program didn’t start til the early 40s and this is a decade before that.
@@MCLegend13 my comment was regards to the OPs naval base critique. everything you replied to me with is irrelevant to that and i dont care about it.
What if Sweden became a superpower AFTER the napoleonic wars?
How would they do that?
@@the_roman_emperor_fisheatermaybe if they win the Finnish war of 1808
@@the_roman_emperor_fisheater well they were compensated after the war by acquiring Norway. The Bernadotte family still had their eyes set on recapturing Finland from Russia due to the historical territory and the Swedish population. If they play there cards right, they could get it back after the Crimean war. The great powers floated the idea of giving the Congo and Macau to Sweden in our timeline so who knows, maybe they could get that and more.
This was an amazing scenario, you should definitely make a part 2 to this, would the soviets or Germany win? Would america intervene? Idk but it would be awesome to see another part
Very inaccurate
@@MCLegend13 what's inaccurate?
I thought that said "1833" and you were going to do one about the pig war
What If Russia 🇷🇺 never annexed or conquered Siberia and didn't expand East into Asia
We need continuation.
👇
Please, make an scenario in which the USSR and the British Empire went to war around 1930s.
3:22 i'm the only ona that is upset that France is not called Indigo or other blue variants?
Aspects that PH deliberately forgot to make a total BS conclusion because "Muh murica better, no.1 choeseborgar in tha wurld".
1. America's underdeveloped and untrained army facing professional Canadians on their soil and possible commonwealth landings on famously unprotected coastlines.
2. Most of America's fleet was in the Pacific (Facing superior Anglo, Japanese and Commonwealth fleets), with the East Coast being held by the more undesirable warships, which have to face against main bulk of Britain's veteran fleets (not counting other commonwealth fleets).
3. The American merchant fleet would mostly cease outside of small River/Costal runs, meaning imports would dry up for the American industry.
4. American industry after 4 years since the great depression was certainly not 3 times the size of the British commonwealth, this is not 1945, this is 1933.
5. Britain doesn't even need to blockade the whole US east coat, Belize is right beside the Panama canal.
6. America, attacking its old ally would essentially be isolating itself diplomatically even more than FDR and Woodrow Wilson could dream of.
I can't think of anything else, if any of you people can conjure up more reasons why this 2020's Hollywood levels of plot armour is complete bs, please let me know.
PH didn’t make up this scenario from scratch-he’s using this video to explore an American war game. We don’t lose at our war games-we just change the rules until the side representing the U. S. wins. Is this dumb? Yes, very. Do we do it anyway? Yes we do. Your arguments are valid, but PH is working off of someone else’s flawed scenario. He’s not entirely to blame here.
The US would be the graveyard of empires. After triggering Spain's collapse, and now Britain's, the US would be more feared.
3-1 USA-Britain
or 2-1 depending on being generous to Britian
It’s inaccurate Britain and Japan could hold their own they significantly out number the USN plus the Americans are fighting two fronts. Those who understand logistics would understand how bad two front wars go no matter who you are.
@@MCLegend13 How, the USA fleet is still massive with much more production than the Uk and Japan combined. The British and Japanese have no hope of beating the USA in a land war so Canada is dead. Then what. A two front wars is dead easy when you can out produce your enemies 3 fold and are under absolutely zero threat. There is nothing that the Uk and the later Japanese entrance can do to seriously threaten the American heartland. We can retreat from the pacific making Japan and the Asian colonial forces bleed while we focus on breaking Britain. Control the Atlantic and Britian would be a non threat. Then just push the Japanese who can’t replace losses and are 5-7 years short on their naval buildup. Britian is fighting an even harder 2 front war because our history shows Japan cannot hold the U.S. alone and not to mention history again. The USA was able to commit to Europe, the Atlantic, and Africa, while still fighting in the Pacific and assisting in Asia.
The industrial overmight the USA has is like saying Britian couldn’t win a war against Belgium and the Netherlands because it would be a multi front war for them. When all Britian needs to do is retreat where needed colonially and smash the homelands
@@kylezdancewicz7346 War of 1812 was a draw fyi
@@Mark-nx5pk that’s why it’s 3-1 or 2-1. I gave both a point for the draw
"daramerignynksrcomigforghus!" - Winston Churchill 1933
Do a second part please 😢
America didn’t have a ship building overmight above Britain did you see how quickly Britain churned out the grand fleet. Less than a decade they were able to churn out 34 Dreadnaughts, and dozens of cruiser plus swarms of destroyers.
Remember your talking about the country that still had a we want eight and we won’t wait campaign which actually resulted in the Revenge class super Dreadnaughts and Renown class Battlecruisers.
Plus they also have Nelson Rodney and Hood the 3 biggest and most powerful capital ships of the 1930s not to mention Hoods sheer speed.
Adding in their a much larger renewed building program with modernised G3 Battlecruisers and N3 Battleships plus maybe a better and maybe a modern and more viable 20 inch gun armed HMS Incomparable.
America wins on land just to become the next victim of the greatest navy in history.
“RULE BRITAINNIA BRITAINNIA RULE THE WAVES BRITONS NEVER NEVER EVER SHALL BE SLAVES” 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
On a more serious note I Personally think it’s delusional to think America can win a 2 front war against Britain and Japan look what happened to every other power in history fighting a 2 front war. There is absolutely no way America can hope to simultaneously beat the British Royal Navy and Imperial Japanese navy.
The more realistic and accurate scenario is Britain boxes America in on the Atlantic coast by basing its Fleet off Bermuda. And harassing US Shipping.
Meanwhile Japan simultaneously occupies the Philippines and Invades Hawaii. Allowing for a blockade of the American West coast completely cutting America off from global trade. Eventually causing the Americans to sue for peace.
The British Navy is not beating an American Navy that after Canada falls has no more real need to build up the army so will put basically all resources into the navy.
@@littleabigail4328look what happened to Germany after they tried to compete.
Same with France Spain and the Dutch. Britain never allows any power to beat them in a naval build up.
The same country that has a we want eight and we won’t wait campaign against the biggest industrial power house in Europe Germany would still be around plus the Japanese 8 BB 8 BC building program it just results in America beating the British out of of Canada but loosing all their Caribbean to Britain and their Pacific to Japan.
@@littleabigail4328also are you so full of yourself that I need to do the most simple task of explaining how horrible two front wars go.
Battling in two oceans is not a two front war like has happened historically and you may have man in the high castle syndrome if you think they’re gonna launch simultaneous land invasions.
You also just have general stupidity with the idea britains gonna exhaust it’s entire colonial and imperial resource so it can get a phyricc victory against America in a colonial war
It’s gonna destroy America to be if it Japan and hold onto the Caribbean for 6 extra years. Do you think before you type
@@MCLegend13 Lol, your Scenario is a win for the US. US cares way more for Canada than its meager island possessions. They might even consider a straight swap.
And I want you to compare the US and Germany. The US is like if you combined USSR and Germany, and gave them huge coastlines, and distance from any enemies.
as a Canadian i am a bit frustrated that there have now been 2 where we get annexed by the US but there hasn't been even one where we annex the US. Please make what if everything went perfect for canada
You did kinda get that with PH’s video on if the American Revolution failed but I’d also like to see a perfect Canada.
Yal even today with migration allowed are 40m people roughly. Back then the Americans wouldn't have to worry about yal with 40m people. France with a bit more and a land army that could smoke USA peacetime army due to it's laughable size is another story.
@@CAProductions051 he said that with that there wouldent be any idea of an america and a canada, i still want canada just a bigger canada: like maybe canada wins the war of 1812 and gains some land from the US and russia decides to sell alaska to us instead of america and canada gets way more of the oregon territory
@@pdp117O That makes sense, maybe Canada could get Greenland and the British Caribbean territories as well.
@@pdp117O That would be worse for Canada. It just gives the US a casus Belli to attack for their land back, as well as the rest.
There is no realistic way that Canada, as a nation and not as a puppet of some other stronger power, survives the US as anything other than friendly neighbor.
Can you do a what if everthing went perfect for imperial Japan video?
yo @possiblehistory how do u get your maps and how do u make them for vids? just askin
Canada:💀💀
This if everything went perfectly for the US witch it wouldnt
Everything doesn’t have to go perfectly for the US to overwhelm Britain with industry, that’s inevitable.
@@drksideofthewal industry Elone does not win a war
@@lgpt9832
It actually does, in this kind of war. There would come a point when Britain simply doesn't have enough tonnage in the water to protect its sea lines of communication, and that will be the death knell for a naval empire. America wouldn't even have to invade Great Britain.
@@lgpt9832 Starting from the American Civil War, Industry is a pretty good indicator of who will win the war. Southern Rebels were believed to have better soldiers, and won many great victories. They still lost. Germany in both world wars were believed to have very highly skilled soldiers and won many great victories. They still lost.
Industry is also an indicator of demographics, because the country with more people will have more industry. So having more people, more industry, food and resource security, those are all pretty good indicators of who will win the war.
@@drksideofthewal the uk were actually building more planes during ww2 than the US plus the US military was not modernised between ww1 and ww2 point plus the UK had more and advanced aircraft carriers than the us and as shown in ww2 the aircraft carrier dominates the naval ingagement plus the US didn't really know hour to use the aircraft carrier in a battle situation until ww2 Britain was more open to aicraft carrier tactics and more experienced than the US thus they would have a better understanding about aircraft carriers than the us thus i believe the uk would win the naval engagement through their carriers
here's just a quick thought, if say france did get declared on by germany, the us may not send soldiers but they may send advisors as if saying "you should put better defenses here" as that would then be our only mainland ally in europe.
What background music do you use?
Bro really thinks the US navy can outmatch the centuries old elite of Royal Navy gunnery and intense japanese obsession to destroy the US combined 😂😂
This
Them being on opposite sides of the planet and racism will keep them from ever joint up into one super fleet. Add on to Britain’s navy being spread all over the world protecting their colonies and trade routes then yes, they will lose eventually.
The British will keep protecting their colonies and trade route by the way because they need those resources to keep their economy running and build up their military. The US will have all of North Americas resources under their control after Canada falls and trading with Mexico overland will never cease. So that’s everything they need to keep going and continue building up for decades.
Because it ended well for Japan historically.
@@bigchungus1920
The Japan that was also fighting China, France and the British Empire as well? What a surprise.
@@ale-xsantos1078destroyed most of our navy and still got their ass served to them on a silver platter, lmao.
Day one of asking: what if Germany didn't declare war on the United States after Pearl harbor?
USA declares war on Germany, little to nothing changes.
I think Japanese involvement could lead to a Soviet intervention in Manchuria, especially if the war goes on for too long.
100%.
I would like to make an inquiry about your Destruction of the Second World. There is no article on the fate of Sakhalin. It is marked in light blue in the page where you discussed Finland, the Urals, and Mongolia, but it is not there.