Hello, I know this is a long shot, but is there anyway I could contact someone about purchasing the most recent plushie drop? I know the window to purchase one closed, but my boyfriend collects them and has gotten every single one up until this point. He was very disappointed when he missed the window to purchase the most recent one. I wanted to know if there was anyway I could purchase one for him, even if it meant paying more than normal. Thank you for considering.
What? That is literally the oposite. A sorther frontier lowers the manpower requirements. The concentrated defense can be applied in a much more effecive way. We are talking of a about 1/5 or 1/4 less of frontier. Imagine how mcuh less manpower that would be@@thomastakesatollforthedark2231
That was Augustus' plan (Frontier at the Elbe + Danube, rather than Rhine + Danube). Which is also kind of why he wanted to conquer Germania in the first place.
I am Italian. I cannot NOT think of Rome. I mean, we pick up VERY basic understanding of Latin (not much in class, but enough to get the gist of random inscriptions) and Roman numerals as children through sheer exposure to random Latin inscriptions we find everywhere and church clocks with Roman numerals, we think of Rome multiple times per day because we're guaranteed to stumble into something that reminds us of it every time we step out of our homes. And that's the guys who live into places built AFTER the fall of Rome, I live in a Roman city and we've got signs that explain what was done in that street back in Roman time, a small archeological museum dedicated entirely to Roman artifacts found here, and even a small tract of a Roman road preserved under a Fascist-era building in the city center...
Im Persian and I always talk about Persia, but people in the west usually either talk about the propaganda of the western nations or %2 of our awesome Warrior nation.😂😂
I would love a second video but the problem is that he said it at the end of the video, assuming there is no 3rd century crisis basically everything changes. Would Attila/leader of a great migration be able to endanger the Romans or would they be able to defend themselves decently until he dies or gets tired and goes somewhere else? - If Attila manages to invade the empire and does not move capital would the eastern or western section fall? In case the eastern part falls I see it possible that the western part survives especially because they would only have to defend the eastern flank since the Mediterranean and the Atlantic defend them. - If Attila does not manage to invade the empire or does so and it survives could Rome continue like the Persian/Chinese empires in which they are able to perpetuate themselves/stagnate? I don't see the empire growing beyond this point, in Scandinavia there is literally nothing that they don't already have, they already have an almost perfect defense with the rivers The problem is that there are so many changed facts and we are so far from the initial point that this would basically be very strong speculation. My edgy take would be to say that the eastern part falls and the western part is severely damaged and cannot retake the eastern part, a new religion like Islam appears and conquers Anatolia + Balkans and creates a rivalry with Western Rome.
@@segiraldovi On the other hand, he often describes his alternate timelines as "this is just one of the many possible ways history could have unfolded" or some such. It doesn't have to be "perfect" or even the most likely scenario imaginable in order to be interesting. This man made some very satisfying and enlightening videos that went wild with the scenarios, like an intact Doggerland leading to western Europeans horse nomads or a world where Rome never had the chance to expand at all. And he wrote a whole book about an alternate future 1000 years after Nazi Germany won WW2! Expanding on what would happen after Rome conquered Germany might be easier in comparison. Could even explore several scenarios. I'll happily devour hours of content based on this.
Rome probably wouldn't have conquered Britain if they had conquered Germany. A large reason behind Claudius' invasion was likely the uncertainty following Teutonberg. He might've campaigned further into Germany instead, mirroring Tiberius to assert his control. Rome probably maintains friendly relations with some of the southern Briton tribes and maybe intervenes occasionally, but many of the economic and political reasons behind that invasion are gone.
@@goroakechi6126Yes the Christian expansion into europe is kind of an inevitable when you consider that the religion actively encourages conversion and as a religion is far more appealing than most pagan religions were (seeing as more often than not pagan religions were designed to explain natural phenomena and thus led to world that was cruel and dangerous vs Christianity's preaching of the importance of humans.)
I'd imagine they'd push for Britainnia after they found out there were gold mines there, they were what made the isles so important to the romans and also why development of the isles ceased when they were exhausted of all the gold the romans had the technology to extract
@@notthefbi7015 That's hard to say. Christians were still a minority when the emperors decided to turn Christianity into the state religion. It was also largely an urban phenomenon to which the countryside with its much more traditional social structures remained quite resistant, especially in the western half of the empire.
Honestly, this kind of far-back historical change video is my favorite part of alternate history, and I'm always impressed by how well-done your channel's scenarios are! Loved it and would really like to see a sequel.
I don't think it's really that disturbing. For all we know, Germany as a country would be in a much, much better economic spot if they were conquered by the Romans and had roots in Roman institutions, like Britain did. Germany would've probably unified a LOT sooner than in our timeline. Maybe Rome wouldn't have been in Germania long enough for German to be latinized, who knows.
9:45 actually not quite the same forest. The Statue is located in Detmold in the south of the Teutoburg forest, which they thought at the time was where the battle took place. But archeological findings since then placed the actual place of battle at Kalkriese near Osnabrück, roughly 75 kilometers to the northwest.
Because unfortunately they are "boring" and unavoidable without modern medicine. More or less the same reason why throwing stones is less likely to be depicted when talking about "non modern" warfare.
Please do a follow up episode for this! This was great stuff. You covered a lot more important details about this topic than most others, especially regarding resources and trade routes; reasons the Roman’s would likely have stayed and developed Germania. Other channels hardly touch on any of that, or not at all, describing Germania simply as useless forests. I’d love to see where you think the history might branch out from where you left off with potentially no third century crisis.
I have waited ever since the fall of Rome for Cody to make a video on this topic. It's a coincidence I wanted to suggest it today. Thanks Cody for making my dreams come true
As a long time viewer of your channel for 10 years+ , this video is one of your very best. The critical importance of Roman medicine for Roman Power is rarely ever mentioned. I have new found respect for Roman Medicine, Modern Medicine, and your channel after watching this video. Thankyou very much for your very excellent content. Looking forward to the next ten years of Alternate History Hub.
I think the most important reason to push the border to the Elbe would be to shorten the overall frontier. Of course, that also means that the Oder is better. And the Vistula is even better. And yes, please explore this more!
You could definitely see a logic playing out where they first stabilize the area up the Elbe. Then a successor Emperor decides that to gain fame for themselves they'll redo it all under the same logic of shorter borders and push up to the Elbe. And then repeat for someone later eventually taking everything up to the Vistula. With the border being basically the Vistula, Carpathian Mountains, Danube river in the end. Which should really be a highly defensible frontier. if you could but manage to conquer and integrate all those areas. Beyond that point the border shortening logic breaks down really and all you see if the basically ever expanding hard to defend plains areas beyond. Still, that would gain you an extra thousand kilometers worth of ultimately fertile areas with a lot of trees in the short and medium term to use up as well. That much extra buffer area that doesn't really add to any added communication time would make it very hard to defeat Rome with attacks from the plains. If it could have actually happened to that extent though... I don't know, but one can certainly wonder. And one can wonder what would have become of Rome in such a timeline as well, because nothing lasts forever. Be it internal or external, something would eventually have broken it up one imagines.
@ Nah. Look at how miserable the Russian borders are throughout history. For what? Marginal land that is only barely useful in the industrial era. No, much better to have your border roughly along the narrowest point between the Baltic and Black Seas. Then, have a few allied states on the steppe to trade with for horses and grain. No long term commitments or obligations. No need for them: all of continental Europe and the Mediterranean basin is enough to be a global hyperpower, if Rome can keep its act together through the centuries.
@@Quickshot0 Beyond the Vistua you tend to meet the old Russia-is-really-fucking-big-problem that brought down empires. And that with successively lower value the further you go. Even pushing beyond the Oder at that time is questionable. Population just got sparcer and sparcer.
This whole concept is crazy inspiring. Imagining just how different Europe would be in the 1500s of this alternate universe makes me wanna stop what I’m doing and write a long epic. I hope you continue with this concept!
Super cool ideas and alternate history potential!! Please return to this some day!!! If Rome holds control of Germania & Britain longer the cultural impacts and potential for hypothetical romance languages is very interesting. Perhaps then it is Slavic rather than Germanic invasions that cause the collapse of Rome. Maybe the Slavs start with the Balkans and topple Eastern Rome first, leaving Western Rome
You could try a theory on the Manhattan project, 3 entered my mind this week: 1. What if the project was delayed for whatever reason? 2. What if they listened to Teller and built a Hydrogen bomb instead? 3. What if Germany didn't surrender as early and they used the bombs on Germany instead?
Need to defend Varus: he followed the standard procedure and indications from a source he had no reason to not trust, even Caesar would have bought it (and, being Caesar, likely found a way to break through the ambush, but that's Caesar).
I really dont think that Ceaser could have gotten out. From the few sources we have, it seems the legion was attacked from all side all at once while marching. There were no formations, many men probably would've stowed wepons , armor, and ammunition for slings, bows, and the like. The Legions were also followed by lots of civilian camp followers who are not prepared for a battle. It's very likely that Arminus would've know that without officers and the signle men, ranks couldn't be formed and very likely had his men kill them first. So, no officers, unprepared men, loose ranks, and civilian panic. This would've been utter chaos and there is probably no way in hell that anyone could've gotten out of that. The biggest strength of the Roman Military was cohesion and tactics. With such chaos tactics are thown out the windo.
@@codymoon7552 I know it's extremely unlikely. But after the miracle at Alesia, where Caesar had to face two enemy armies, each of which outnumbered his and that were attacking at the same time while taking advantage of the piece of terrain where the Romans couldn't make the field fortifications intended precisely to deal with this kind of surprises and STILL CRUSHED THEM ONE AT A TIME, one can expect almost anything from him.
@lordMartiya At Alesia, Ceaser had well groomed, high moraled, well prepared men standing in formation. He would have had none of those things in the woods.
@codymoon7552 At Teutoburg, Varus had all of that except the formations. And Caesar, being Caesar and having already been burned due Vercingerorix having been a close friend, would have suspected what was going to happen the moment Arminius disappeared. That's the difference between Caesar and Varus, Caesar could see the ambush coming before it could be sprung. And if Varus' men could exact a heavy toll in the situation they found themselves in, Caesar could find a way out.
@@lordMartiya that was literally impossible. The ambush that Arminius organized was almost perfect. The Romans were marching in a narrow terrain surrounded by trees and formeling a column kilometers long. The germanic tribes attacked the back of the column so they could exploit numerical superiority and no backup from the front could arrive in time. For three days they employed the hit and run tactic until the three legions were decimated. The only thing that we can agree on is that probably a capable man like Caesar wouldn't have fallen in such a trap. When Varus saw the smoke coming from the other side of the forest he trusted Arminius and marched through the forest. Caesar wouldn't have been so s*tupid to pass through the forest. Anyways, this Teutoburg ambush was ignored by historians until the 19th century, when Germans were looking for an historical episode to justify their union and create a sense of nationality (same narrative was adopted by the nazis in early 20th century). From that day on, the Teutoburg distaster has been hyped so much that people believe that it was the main cause of the Romans withdrawal from Germany. In my opinion this episode is completely overrated, just a couple of years later, germanicus defeated Arminius multiple times, and even later, romans crossed the Rhine several times to launch punitive campaigns (like Maximinus Trax or constantine did), and every time they kicked a huge amount of germanic a*sses. The reality was much more complex than that, but the conquest or the superiority in battle was never a problem for the romans. The main reason for the missed conquest of Germania was mainly in the non centralized structure of the germanic tribes that were anything but mot unified group of people ( like the 19th and early 20th centuries german propaganda wanted us to believe). The problem is that most of the people today still believe in this false propaganda.
0:37 I’m disappointed in you Cody that you purposely didn’t include the big bird video on this tier list. I’d have to place it under. “Plausable” Also you spelled Plausible wrong….
Germany winning WW1 is one of the most realistic alternate history scenarios you could imagine. There are around 1000 little things that all went in favor of the entente and one single piece changing would/could have tipped the scale in favor of Germany. Examples: - Schlieffen Plan carried out as intended. In reality, during the first battle on the Marne (almost in eyesight of Paris) a gap opened in the German lines and they had to slightly retreat after pretty much winning everything up until this point. The original plan called for more divisions on the Western front and less on the eastern front. With those reserves, the gap is filled and they continue marching. - 12th battle of Isonzo: What started off as a small relief offense by third grade Austrian troops supported by some German Stormtroops, would have completely kicked Italy out of the war, closing a front for the Central Powers, opening another one for the French. - T.E. Lawrence against all odds making friends with the Arabs and making them valuable assets (while his government betrayed his friends). Up to this point, the British did not much but lose in that region - Unrestricted submarine warefare (twice) plus Zimmermann Telegram. Both did nothing to help Germany or harm the Entente, but brought the U.S. into the war. The hope for America was everything that kept France from falling apart at that stage. - Constantine I (of Greece) winning instead of losing the power struggle. No additional point of attack for the entente - Austria-Hungary not accidentally marching into a Serbian army without a plan to do so. Serbia could have been out of the war within a few months, completely closing the southern front and so on and so forth. Those may be 10% of the single occurrences that went against the central powers.
Yeah unlike WW2, Germany actually had a legitimate playing field. They were THE economic and military power house of Europe. There are so many ways that Germany sees a victory especially early in the war. It's a little frustrating to hear people say that Germany stood no chance in WW1, when there were so many moments in which it could've played out a different way that people seem to overlook.
@@dishrame4946 The "Germany had no chance in WW1" is mostly parroted by Anglo propagandists, ironically this paints Germany as even more capable as they practically solo'd France the UK and Russia Hell even for VERDUN most of that battle was supplied by a single road, a single road where during the total areal supremacy the Germans had nobody thought to bomb the supply trucks, the minute difference of a few pilots not deciding to strafe these trucks slowed the war down tremendously as even a single truck breaking down would've caused a massive congestion and supply issues (being a mud ridden hellhole) So many tiny moments where everything could've changed, meanwhile in reality almost everything that could go wrong went wrong for the Germans (in both wars funnily enough, they just occasionally lucked out with the enemy capturing their plans and not believing them)
Loved your bit about Roman medicine and public health. My favorite/best paper I ever wrote while in college for public health was about Roman pub health institutions.
I've come to tell you a tale🎵 Of how Rome could've prevailed🎶 This tale is full of conquests🎵 Full of regret and forests🎶 How Germans became Romans🎵 And built forts against nomads🎶 Listen closely, Julia🎵 It's Roman Germania🎶
I would like to add a few things 1) Good portion of Germanic tribes that brought down Rome like Goths, Vandals and Jutes still are outside of Roman borders and can cause problems. They might even be more advanced as they have better contact with Rome. And Sassanids still are pain in the ass. 2) I don’t see Roman internal problems being any better. Therefore I could still see Northern Balkans Italy, Southern Gaul, Hispania and North Africa being overrun in the fifth century. However I don’t think the much more powerful presence in Northwestern Europe would be overrun (The Germans that did it are integrated), at most loosing Britannia to some proto Vikings. Thus a second powerful Roman successor state would exist in area similar to the Frankish kingdom
4:36 and he shows normal map with the border on the Rhine ... The romans during that period controled up to the Elbe river Also Britania wasnt part of the Empire yet Also Tiberius wasnt yet Emperor during any of his campaigns ( Augustus was still around ) When he was an Emperor he didnt leave Italy even once
Because everyone had to pay to stop the vikings and also the Vikings only accepted coin so barter good bye very quickly as it was a race to the bottom of tax and people passing it on it also meant lords payed taxes
This seems like a very interesting alternate timeline. Amazing how disease always seems to be overlooked when it comes to why there was a crisis. I mean, a big reason why North America was able to be conquered is due to European explorers accidentally bringing over diseases the natives were unfamiliar with which wiped out a good chunk of population.
What if Brazil was a Superpower? What if Mutapa survived and became an industrialized african great power? What if the Kingdom of Madagascar still existed? What if the Konbaung Empire survived and modernized? What if the Qing Dynasty modernized and industrialized?*
Roma Invicta Roma Invicta Dear god, Rome can't get out of My head, i was playing Rome 2 and suddenly this video hits Please make a part 2 I through i was cured, i was wrong My addiction has returned
There's some trees in New Zealand and East Africa that could potentially have their resin turn into amber. It's a fossilization processes, so it takes 1000s of years.
I assume Europe would be more "Scandinavian" ... no mercenaries from Germania and a later demise of Roe would mean mercenaries from Scandinavia following the Viking Age.
I like the idea of the frontier being the Vistula-Dneister with a military march along the Carpathians in the gap between the two rivers. And Hadrian's Wall can be built in Jutland. Lol
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Bruh
State anthems 2 when? I want your opinion on Ohio’s.
Hello, I know this is a long shot, but is there anyway I could contact someone about purchasing the most recent plushie drop? I know the window to purchase one closed, but my boyfriend collects them and has gotten every single one up until this point. He was very disappointed when he missed the window to purchase the most recent one. I wanted to know if there was anyway I could purchase one for him, even if it meant paying more than normal. Thank you for considering.
Just get yo ass on nebula pls not paying for more subscriptions
do remake of americas never colonized 5th reply
Another advantage of pacifying Germania is ironically a *shorter* frontier that requires less manpower to defend.
And possibly more people to defend it
What? That is literally the oposite. A sorther frontier lowers the manpower requirements. The concentrated defense can be applied in a much more effecive way. We are talking of a about 1/5 or 1/4 less of frontier. Imagine how mcuh less manpower that would be@@thomastakesatollforthedark2231
That was Augustus' plan (Frontier at the Elbe + Danube, rather than Rhine + Danube). Which is also kind of why he wanted to conquer Germania in the first place.
@@thomastakesatollforthedark2231 And don't forget that the frontier would *also* be farther away from major population centers in Italy and Gaul
@@SamForShort In 200 years and the economic importance we could have big centers in Germany too
“I never stop thinking about Rome.” Trust me, the Ottomans and Russia never stopped thinking about Rome.
No one stops thinking about Rome
@ all thoughts lead to Rome
I am Italian. I cannot NOT think of Rome. I mean, we pick up VERY basic understanding of Latin (not much in class, but enough to get the gist of random inscriptions) and Roman numerals as children through sheer exposure to random Latin inscriptions we find everywhere and church clocks with Roman numerals, we think of Rome multiple times per day because we're guaranteed to stumble into something that reminds us of it every time we step out of our homes.
And that's the guys who live into places built AFTER the fall of Rome, I live in a Roman city and we've got signs that explain what was done in that street back in Roman time, a small archeological museum dedicated entirely to Roman artifacts found here, and even a small tract of a Roman road preserved under a Fascist-era building in the city center...
Im Persian and I always talk about Persia, but people in the west usually either talk about the propaganda of the western nations or %2 of our awesome Warrior nation.😂😂
@@Raccoon.City.Police.DepartmentPersia is budget Rome
Pls make PART TWO.
I second this motion.
I would love a second video but the problem is that he said it at the end of the video, assuming there is no 3rd century crisis basically everything changes. Would Attila/leader of a great migration be able to endanger the Romans or would they be able to defend themselves decently until he dies or gets tired and goes somewhere else?
- If Attila manages to invade the empire and does not move capital would the eastern or western section fall? In case the eastern part falls I see it possible that the western part survives especially because they would only have to defend the eastern flank since the Mediterranean and the Atlantic defend them.
- If Attila does not manage to invade the empire or does so and it survives could Rome continue like the Persian/Chinese empires in which they are able to perpetuate themselves/stagnate? I don't see the empire growing beyond this point, in Scandinavia there is literally nothing that they don't already have, they already have an almost perfect defense with the rivers
The problem is that there are so many changed facts and we are so far from the initial point that this would basically be very strong speculation. My edgy take would be to say that the eastern part falls and the western part is severely damaged and cannot retake the eastern part, a new religion like Islam appears and conquers Anatolia + Balkans and creates a rivalry with Western Rome.
@@segiraldovi On the other hand, he often describes his alternate timelines as "this is just one of the many possible ways history could have unfolded" or some such. It doesn't have to be "perfect" or even the most likely scenario imaginable in order to be interesting. This man made some very satisfying and enlightening videos that went wild with the scenarios, like an intact Doggerland leading to western Europeans horse nomads or a world where Rome never had the chance to expand at all. And he wrote a whole book about an alternate future 1000 years after Nazi Germany won WW2! Expanding on what would happen after Rome conquered Germany might be easier in comparison. Could even explore several scenarios. I'll happily devour hours of content based on this.
@@wolfheartdarnell324 I third this
The Holy Roman Empire was just like the Roman Empire. Something that turned into an absolute mess until it was ultimately destroyed by the French
The real circle of life if you ask me
In what way did the French destroy the Roman Empire?
@@Ayem427 Went from flipping over to flipping burning cars
Um AcTuAlLy It WaS tHe ViSiGoThS tHaT aCtUaLlY sAcKeD tHe CiTy!!!!1111!!1!!!11!
@@PintoRagazzo I think he's referring to Gaul's in general
Rome probably wouldn't have conquered Britain if they had conquered Germany. A large reason behind Claudius' invasion was likely the uncertainty following Teutonberg. He might've campaigned further into Germany instead, mirroring Tiberius to assert his control. Rome probably maintains friendly relations with some of the southern Briton tribes and maybe intervenes occasionally, but many of the economic and political reasons behind that invasion are gone.
This actually raises another question, would Christianity be as expansionistic as it was in our timeline?
@@goroakechi6126Yes the Christian expansion into europe is kind of an inevitable when you consider that the religion actively encourages conversion and as a religion is far more appealing than most pagan religions were (seeing as more often than not pagan religions were designed to explain natural phenomena and thus led to world that was cruel and dangerous vs Christianity's preaching of the importance of humans.)
I'd imagine they'd push for Britainnia after they found out there were gold mines there, they were what made the isles so important to the romans and also why development of the isles ceased when they were exhausted of all the gold the romans had the technology to extract
@@notthefbi7015 "far more appealing" Pretty much the same way as the first islamic expansion was. Humanitarian navel-gazing wasn't their thing.
@@notthefbi7015 That's hard to say. Christians were still a minority when the emperors decided to turn Christianity into the state religion. It was also largely an urban phenomenon to which the countryside with its much more traditional social structures remained quite resistant, especially in the western half of the empire.
Germans: (crying nervously) "I AM ROMAN! I AM ROMAN! I AM ROMAN!"
Also Germans: "HA! Never conquered, take that Romans! God bless the Kaiser!"
(Roman Deity) bless the (Roman title/name)
Honestly, this kind of far-back historical change video is my favorite part of alternate history, and I'm always impressed by how well-done your channel's scenarios are! Loved it and would really like to see a sequel.
Also well written and fun to listen to, even when they go a bit crazy. Presentation counts for a lot!
As a German Speaker, this concept disturbs me. The idea of a Latin or *HIGHLY* Latin influenced Germania, Es ist mega schrecklich.
I don't think it's really that disturbing. For all we know, Germany as a country would be in a much, much better economic spot if they were conquered by the Romans and had roots in Roman institutions, like Britain did. Germany would've probably unified a LOT sooner than in our timeline.
Maybe Rome wouldn't have been in Germania long enough for German to be latinized, who knows.
@@reaperz5677 Counterpoint: I dont wanna
@@reaperz5677 Counterpoint: The commentor would not exist if it happened.
Quite a few people would not exist. A lot of Americans have German ancestry too, so lots of us won't exist either. @scottthejatt
@@reaperz5677
All fair points
Augustus: "Quintili Vare, legiones redde!"
Cody: "Okay."
Missed out on a perfect opportunity to say “Okae”
Rome content goes crazy
9:45 actually not quite the same forest. The Statue is located in Detmold in the south of the Teutoburg forest, which they thought at the time was where the battle took place. But archeological findings since then placed the actual place of battle at Kalkriese near Osnabrück, roughly 75 kilometers to the northwest.
From what I've heard, you can actually stand on the hill that the legions were destroyed on.
@codymoon7552 somewhat, the place is actually fairly flat, we went there in school once
another great video already?
keep up the good work
Plagues are often the nost overlooked events in history good to see the antonian Plague get covered
Because unfortunately they are "boring" and unavoidable without modern medicine.
More or less the same reason why throwing stones is less likely to be depicted when talking about "non modern" warfare.
Please do a follow up episode for this! This was great stuff. You covered a lot more important details about this topic than most others, especially regarding resources and trade routes; reasons the Roman’s would likely have stayed and developed Germania. Other channels hardly touch on any of that, or not at all, describing Germania simply as useless forests. I’d love to see where you think the history might branch out from where you left off with potentially no third century crisis.
I have waited ever since the fall of Rome for Cody to make a video on this topic. It's a coincidence I wanted to suggest it today. Thanks Cody for making my dreams come true
As a long time viewer of your channel for 10 years+ , this video is one of your very best.
The critical importance of Roman medicine for Roman Power is rarely ever mentioned.
I have new found respect for Roman Medicine, Modern Medicine, and your channel after watching this video.
Thankyou very much for your very excellent content. Looking forward to the next ten years of Alternate History Hub.
There's a certain Caligula SI on QQ that I'm obsessed with right now, so this is perfect. Thanks for making it Cody!
Oh this is going to be a good one! Thanks for the video Cody, I'm having a very rough week
"Varus, Give me back my LEGIONS!!!!"😫
How bout you oil up?
I think the most important reason to push the border to the Elbe would be to shorten the overall frontier.
Of course, that also means that the Oder is better.
And the Vistula is even better.
And yes, please explore this more!
the shortest border is when you conquer the whole world
You could definitely see a logic playing out where they first stabilize the area up the Elbe. Then a successor Emperor decides that to gain fame for themselves they'll redo it all under the same logic of shorter borders and push up to the Elbe. And then repeat for someone later eventually taking everything up to the Vistula. With the border being basically the Vistula, Carpathian Mountains, Danube river in the end. Which should really be a highly defensible frontier. if you could but manage to conquer and integrate all those areas.
Beyond that point the border shortening logic breaks down really and all you see if the basically ever expanding hard to defend plains areas beyond. Still, that would gain you an extra thousand kilometers worth of ultimately fertile areas with a lot of trees in the short and medium term to use up as well. That much extra buffer area that doesn't really add to any added communication time would make it very hard to defeat Rome with attacks from the plains.
If it could have actually happened to that extent though... I don't know, but one can certainly wonder. And one can wonder what would have become of Rome in such a timeline as well, because nothing lasts forever. Be it internal or external, something would eventually have broken it up one imagines.
And then roman border is in fucking Siberia
@ Nah. Look at how miserable the Russian borders are throughout history. For what? Marginal land that is only barely useful in the industrial era. No, much better to have your border roughly along the narrowest point between the Baltic and Black Seas. Then, have a few allied states on the steppe to trade with for horses and grain. No long term commitments or obligations. No need for them: all of continental Europe and the Mediterranean basin is enough to be a global hyperpower, if Rome can keep its act together through the centuries.
@@Quickshot0 Beyond the Vistua you tend to meet the old Russia-is-really-fucking-big-problem that brought down empires. And that with successively lower value the further you go. Even pushing beyond the Oder at that time is questionable. Population just got sparcer and sparcer.
This whole concept is crazy inspiring. Imagining just how different Europe would be in the 1500s of this alternate universe makes me wanna stop what I’m doing and write a long epic.
I hope you continue with this concept!
I could get behind that timeline.
Love this concept man
I can't believe Cody had the... Gaul to tackle this subject.
I've already removed myself from the gene pool. You're welcome.
ohhh, ive been wanting this one
What if the Heavenly Kingdom had won the Taiping rebellion?
Yes, this.
Super cool ideas and alternate history potential!! Please return to this some day!!!
If Rome holds control of Germania & Britain longer the cultural impacts and potential for hypothetical romance languages is very interesting. Perhaps then it is Slavic rather than Germanic invasions that cause the collapse of Rome. Maybe the Slavs start with the Balkans and topple Eastern Rome first, leaving Western Rome
Yeah and slavs settling anatolia, bulgaria, grecce and maybe even syria. That would be a crazy timeline to see.
This was really fun to watch. Please do a part 2!
You MUST continue this PLEASE
The good timeline.
That was such an interesting timeline! Good job!
Great work as always luv to see a pt 2
You could try a theory on the Manhattan project, 3 entered my mind this week:
1. What if the project was delayed for whatever reason?
2. What if they listened to Teller and built a Hydrogen bomb instead?
3. What if Germany didn't surrender as early and they used the bombs on Germany instead?
20:08 You don't need a wall for that; you just need a slightly bigger hill.
"Himmelbjerget", hahaha...
Cody: "Sigh i never stop thinking about rome please help me"
Me: No i don't think i will.
Need to defend Varus: he followed the standard procedure and indications from a source he had no reason to not trust, even Caesar would have bought it (and, being Caesar, likely found a way to break through the ambush, but that's Caesar).
I really dont think that Ceaser could have gotten out. From the few sources we have, it seems the legion was attacked from all side all at once while marching. There were no formations, many men probably would've stowed wepons , armor, and ammunition for slings, bows, and the like. The Legions were also followed by lots of civilian camp followers who are not prepared for a battle. It's very likely that Arminus would've know that without officers and the signle men, ranks couldn't be formed and very likely had his men kill them first. So, no officers, unprepared men, loose ranks, and civilian panic. This would've been utter chaos and there is probably no way in hell that anyone could've gotten out of that. The biggest strength of the Roman Military was cohesion and tactics. With such chaos tactics are thown out the windo.
@@codymoon7552 I know it's extremely unlikely. But after the miracle at Alesia, where Caesar had to face two enemy armies, each of which outnumbered his and that were attacking at the same time while taking advantage of the piece of terrain where the Romans couldn't make the field fortifications intended precisely to deal with this kind of surprises and STILL CRUSHED THEM ONE AT A TIME, one can expect almost anything from him.
@lordMartiya At Alesia, Ceaser had well groomed, high moraled, well prepared men standing in formation. He would have had none of those things in the woods.
@codymoon7552 At Teutoburg, Varus had all of that except the formations. And Caesar, being Caesar and having already been burned due Vercingerorix having been a close friend, would have suspected what was going to happen the moment Arminius disappeared.
That's the difference between Caesar and Varus, Caesar could see the ambush coming before it could be sprung. And if Varus' men could exact a heavy toll in the situation they found themselves in, Caesar could find a way out.
@@lordMartiya that was literally impossible. The ambush that Arminius organized was almost perfect. The Romans were marching in a narrow terrain surrounded by trees and formeling a column kilometers long. The germanic tribes attacked the back of the column so they could exploit numerical superiority and no backup from the front could arrive in time. For three days they employed the hit and run tactic until the three legions were decimated. The only thing that we can agree on is that probably a capable man like Caesar wouldn't have fallen in such a trap. When Varus saw the smoke coming from the other side of the forest he trusted Arminius and marched through the forest. Caesar wouldn't have been so s*tupid to pass through the forest. Anyways, this Teutoburg ambush was ignored by historians until the 19th century, when Germans were looking for an historical episode to justify their union and create a sense of nationality (same narrative was adopted by the nazis in early 20th century). From that day on, the Teutoburg distaster has been hyped so much that people believe that it was the main cause of the Romans withdrawal from Germany. In my opinion this episode is completely overrated, just a couple of years later, germanicus defeated Arminius multiple times, and even later, romans crossed the Rhine several times to launch punitive campaigns (like Maximinus Trax or constantine did), and every time they kicked a huge amount of germanic a*sses. The reality was much more complex than that, but the conquest or the superiority in battle was never a problem for the romans. The main reason for the missed conquest of Germania was mainly in the non centralized structure of the germanic tribes that were anything but mot unified group of people ( like the 19th and early 20th centuries german propaganda wanted us to believe). The problem is that most of the people today still believe in this false propaganda.
0:37 I’m disappointed in you Cody that you purposely didn’t include the big bird video on this tier list. I’d have to place it under. “Plausable”
Also you spelled Plausible wrong….
That's just part of the Cody flavor, like saying "calvary".
Please do come back and visit this at some point. Very well done video and a very interesting concept.
Great video, I need part two!
Would be great to see this continued,
This is probably the best video you've ever done, loved every second!
Awesome video. Sequel please!!! 🙏
Oh my god, Arminus is Lion El’Johnson and Augustus is Roboute Guilliman
BRING PART TWO PLS👍
yes part 2
pleaseeee continue this, this is so cool
Please resume more on this topic!
Germany winning WW1 is one of the most realistic alternate history scenarios you could imagine. There are around 1000 little things that all went in favor of the entente and one single piece changing would/could have tipped the scale in favor of Germany. Examples:
- Schlieffen Plan carried out as intended. In reality, during the first battle on the Marne (almost in eyesight of Paris) a gap opened in the German lines and they had to slightly retreat after pretty much winning everything up until this point. The original plan called for more divisions on the Western front and less on the eastern front. With those reserves, the gap is filled and they continue marching.
- 12th battle of Isonzo: What started off as a small relief offense by third grade Austrian troops supported by some German Stormtroops, would have completely kicked Italy out of the war, closing a front for the Central Powers, opening another one for the French.
- T.E. Lawrence against all odds making friends with the Arabs and making them valuable assets (while his government betrayed his friends). Up to this point, the British did not much but lose in that region
- Unrestricted submarine warefare (twice) plus Zimmermann Telegram. Both did nothing to help Germany or harm the Entente, but brought the U.S. into the war. The hope for America was everything that kept France from falling apart at that stage.
- Constantine I (of Greece) winning instead of losing the power struggle. No additional point of attack for the entente
- Austria-Hungary not accidentally marching into a Serbian army without a plan to do so. Serbia could have been out of the war within a few months, completely closing the southern front
and so on and so forth. Those may be 10% of the single occurrences that went against the central powers.
Yeah unlike WW2, Germany actually had a legitimate playing field. They were THE economic and military power house of Europe. There are so many ways that Germany sees a victory especially early in the war. It's a little frustrating to hear people say that Germany stood no chance in WW1, when there were so many moments in which it could've played out a different way that people seem to overlook.
@@dishrame4946
The "Germany had no chance in WW1" is mostly parroted by Anglo propagandists, ironically this paints Germany as even more capable as they practically solo'd France the UK and Russia
Hell even for VERDUN most of that battle was supplied by a single road, a single road where during the total areal supremacy the Germans had nobody thought to bomb the supply trucks, the minute difference of a few pilots not deciding to strafe these trucks slowed the war down tremendously as even a single truck breaking down would've caused a massive congestion and supply issues (being a mud ridden hellhole)
So many tiny moments where everything could've changed, meanwhile in reality almost everything that could go wrong went wrong for the Germans (in both wars funnily enough, they just occasionally lucked out with the enemy capturing their plans and not believing them)
Video idea: What if Gladiator didn’t get a sequel
But it didn't..?
good thing we live in that timeline already
Letssss gooooo a video on Friday. Thats all I have to say.
new kendrick and althistoryhub both dropped in the same morning damn it feels good to be alive
I’d love to see a part 2.
Loved your bit about Roman medicine and public health. My favorite/best paper I ever wrote while in college for public health was about Roman pub health institutions.
The follow up video on this would be awesome. The implications from a Roman Germany would be huge.
This is insane!! Good job Cody!!
“What if the Antonine plague never happened” when?
Part 2 please, this was amazing ❤
Yes please make a part two
Why does the Roman figure in the thumbnail looks like he’s going to sing
I've come to tell you a tale🎵
Of how Rome could've prevailed🎶
This tale is full of conquests🎵
Full of regret and forests🎶
How Germans became Romans🎵
And built forts against nomads🎶
Listen closely, Julia🎵
It's Roman Germania🎶
I think a part two could be good!
Another fantastic video
Keep up the good work man
Yet another what IF I'd love to see continued!
I would like to add a few things
1) Good portion of Germanic tribes that brought down Rome like Goths, Vandals and Jutes still are outside of Roman borders and can cause problems. They might even be more advanced as they have better contact with Rome. And Sassanids still are pain in the ass.
2) I don’t see Roman internal problems being any better.
Therefore I could still see Northern Balkans Italy, Southern Gaul, Hispania and North Africa being overrun in the fifth century.
However I don’t think the much more powerful presence in Northwestern Europe would be overrun (The Germans that did it are integrated), at most loosing Britannia to some proto Vikings. Thus a second powerful Roman successor state would exist in area similar to the Frankish kingdom
Part 2 is a must
Been waiting for this topic covered for awhile now
4:36 and he shows normal map with the border on the Rhine ...
The romans during that period controled up to the Elbe river
Also Britania wasnt part of the Empire yet
Also Tiberius wasnt yet Emperor during any of his campaigns ( Augustus was still around )
When he was an Emperor he didnt leave Italy even once
The Viking raids created a tax system in England that would at times bring in more tax then the Byzantine empire
Because everyone had to pay to stop the vikings and also the Vikings only accepted coin so barter good bye very quickly as it was a race to the bottom of tax and people passing it on it also meant lords payed taxes
great vid. id love an ep 2. your most fun scenarios are the ones you develope into series. like i love scar nicky
This was a super cool concept, and like you said, very difficult to predict the aftershocks. It would be awesome to see you take a stab at it though!
I did really enjoy this one.
I really enjoyed this so you should come back and see where things go from here.
This seems like a very interesting alternate timeline. Amazing how disease always seems to be overlooked when it comes to why there was a crisis. I mean, a big reason why North America was able to be conquered is due to European explorers accidentally bringing over diseases the natives were unfamiliar with which wiped out a good chunk of population.
What if Brazil was a Superpower? What if Mutapa survived and became an industrialized african great power? What if the Kingdom of Madagascar still existed? What if the Konbaung Empire survived and modernized? What if the Qing Dynasty modernized and industrialized?*
I would really like to see a continuation on this senario, please consider it
This was one of the most interesting alternative history scenarios I have come across!
Please make a sequel to this video! I really want to see a post Roman romanized Germany lol.
Please do a part 2
Roma Invicta
Roma Invicta
Dear god, Rome can't get out of My head, i was playing Rome 2 and suddenly this video hits
Please make a part 2
I through i was cured, i was wrong
My addiction has returned
very good video part 2 would be great
Come back for a part 2 please. Also, I'm still waiting for the next part of the State songs series.
I really enjoyed this and would *love* to see it developed even further to show how it impacted later historical events.
This was very well done!
I love this ep, please do a follow up
I got an idea for an alt history: what if the American revolution ended in a stalemate?
What is interesting is that I never really heard about that specific plague and it’s consequences, but it really does make sense.
Please do make a part 2
DO PART 2 PLEASE!
W THUMBNAIL!!!!
THAT'S MY ALTERNATE HISTORY HUB!!!!!!
This is the best day ever, Kendrick and Alternate History Hub dropped, W day
The King has returned! 🎉
Dont most trees have sap that hardens into amber? Also i miss the jazz could you please bring that back? Adds a good effect to the vids
There's some trees in New Zealand and East Africa that could potentially have their resin turn into amber. It's a fossilization processes, so it takes 1000s of years.
Please make a part 2! Even if it's not necessarily realistic lmao. This timeline is just super interesting
This is a great video. The RUclips channel Maiorianus has some great Rome-focused alternate histories, especially in Late Antiquity.
Make a part 2!
The blocking of Denmark made me laugh and I don’t know why.
I assume Europe would be more "Scandinavian" ... no mercenaries from Germania and a later demise of Roe would mean mercenaries from Scandinavia following the Viking Age.
A great video, really hope you make a follow-up!
I like the idea of the frontier being the Vistula-Dneister with a military march along the Carpathians in the gap between the two rivers.
And Hadrian's Wall can be built in Jutland. Lol
"Last but not least, we have to talk to the biggest threat to the Romans themselves..."
Uhm... was it themselves?
"Trees!"
Oh, of course! :)
Do a video on how the Viking raids created a really good tax system in England