Most of the popular metrics people use to understand others -- attachment styles, Myers-Briggs, love languages -- are functionally useless for predicting behavior. The key to understanding others lies in appreciating the incentives under which they are operating: the carrot and the stick. Keep in mind that, in order to be motivating, these incentives don't actually have to exist in reality: they need only exist in their perceptions. In this episode, I discuss some of the ramifications of these observations. Social Media Facebook: facebook.com/profile.php?id=100090053889622 LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/orion-taraban-070b45168/ Instagram: instagram.com/psyc.hacks Twitter: twitter.com/oriontaraban Website: oriontarabanpsyd.com Orion's Theme: ruclips.net/video/WrXBzQ2HDEQ/видео.html Thinking of going to grad school? Check out STELLAR, my top-rated GRE self-study program based on the world's only empirically-validated test prep system. Use the code "PSYCH" for 10% off all membership plans: stellargre.com. Become a Stellar affiliate and earn a 10% commission for every membership purchased by a new student you conduct into the program: stellargre.tapfiliate.com. GRE Bites: www.youtube.com/@grebites4993 Become a Psychonaut and join PsycHack's member community: ruclips.net/channel/UCSduXBjCHkLoo_y9ss2xzXwjoin Book a paid consultation: oriontarabanpsyd.com/consultations Sound mixing/editing by: valntinomusic.com Presented by Orion Taraban, Psy.D. PsycHacks provides viewers with a brief, thought-provoking video several days a week on a variety of psychological topics, inspired by his clinical practice. The intention is for the core idea contained within each video to inspire viewers to see something about themselves or their world in a slightly different light. The ultimate mission of the channel is to reduce the amount of unnecessary suffering in the world. #psychology #personality #wisdom
Hey Dr. O, this is a guy currently in Bumfuck, India, that's thanking you with what I can afford, in a disastrous currency thats taking a whooping against the dollar, because i just want to say... Thank you.
Same. His explanation made perfect sense. My perception about people's disapproval or other 'negative' responses was disproportionately inflated in my mind.
"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle." -- Sun Tzu, The Art of War Hold a contract to their head and make them do it. Well done. Discovering the internal sticks and carrots can be difficult.
A literal goldmine you are. Would love a more practical example of how we can apply this in real life situations, like a case studie of some sorts, comments are always welcome! Have a great weekend all ❤
@@CeceliPS3yeah, psychacks is like the teacher that explain the lesson but don't always give exercises with the correction. To have something a little bit more concrete I would recommend the channel hoe_maths. There you can see a lot of examples of what psychacks is talking about but in the context of modern dating for people in there 20's. Then again, hoe_maths is like half theory, half practice. For true case studies the best is still to do your own experiences. Learn the principles taught by these channels, think how you could verify these principles in your own life, do the experiments, analyze the results and conclude how accurate and useful their ideas are to your own circumstances. Kinda like the scientific approach.
i was just thinking about this yesterday. it's important to listen actively to what people are saying and then think about why they might be saying it or acting the way they are
Thank you. You made me realize that I am the perfect carrot for my person of interests present and intermediate future. Now we need to check our personal compatibility.
It's absolutely true that carrots and sticks are often subjective, and they can vary a lot from person to person. But isn't it possible that certain psychological frameworks (like the Big Five personality traits) could help us gauge how likely a person is to respond strongly to a certain carrot or stick? It seems like the carrot-and-stick idea and the psychological frameworks wouldn't necessarily be in conflict with each other.
I suppose as an experienced phycologist, Taraban is very interested in a single person’s perception and experience in life, like one of his many clients, it is his job after all lol. Those formal phycological frameworks could definitely be used to generalize a person’s behavior and predict their perspectives, that make sense to me. It’s quite attractive to the general population because it’s broad, quick and simple, a lot less strenuous and time consuming than years of professional education and study.
Most of them are BS. It has been knwo that all of those personality tests don't work, that is known since 1940 when they were made, and psuchologist said this, the ones that made them. But yes, for general population is fun and simple to have something like that that tell you a personality. That is also why in the US Supreme Court, psychological test are forbidden as proof, even if therapy is recommended that only work as a starting point becauise maybe the diagnosis will change. this is why is not so useful to know personality, specially for people that is not psychologist.
Exactly what I thought. The personality models actually help with understanding someone's motivations as everyone has their own personal versions of carrots and sticks. If Tariban as a psychologist were to assess someone based on his or her psychological carrots and sticks, his assessment would likely be mappable to one of the categories from the personality frameworks.
@@codniggh1139There are lots of disagreements on how useful the type systems are, as there has been forever. So you hear they are useless and useful depending on who you ask. I learned about the Myers Briggs from a chaplain in the Army. He accurately predicted the short careers of myself and another new officer in our class based on our type. We also probably had the two highest IQ scores in our class, lol.
Im 34, married 10+ years. We have 2 kids and loce each other deeply. Those metrics are all helpful when used together to understand our partners. Men and women think differently and miscommunications are a huge burden on marriage. Understanding my husband is ISTP and im INFP, really helps us give each other space and freedom to accept one another and not try to force the other to change. We accept each others God given natures, but we needed help to figure out how to navigate our differences. Your advice is an added layer of helpfulness but that alone isnt going to keep a marriage for a lifetime. Thats just behaviorism, there is more to connection than "psychology" its MANY LAYERS DEEP.
3 basic principles - 1. Most human interactions are manipulative; 2. Most human relationships are transactional; 3. Most people have no issue getting a 'good deal' at your expense.
@@Doberman_6773Could these 3 principles be largely influenced and propagated by Consumer Capitalism since, according to Marx, fundamentally depends upon worker exploitation and social alienation?
@@jonprince3237 In many primitive tribes and even third world "socialist" communities today, human relationships are not manipulative and transsactional. They are based on ancient traditions and family ties based on spiritual principles like respecting Mother Nature which Industrialization and burning oil does not. You are just a deductive reasoner of your own subjective philosophy which isn't as bright or intelligent as you believe it to be.
Am so glad you raised this topic Orion. Admittedly I personally like the Meyers-Briggs Personality Profiling as a Framework for filtering. Being an INFJ, Intuition and gut instinct is almost 99.9% accurate for me, however I do concede that the MB Framework may not be everybody's cup of tea... it is used widely today in job selection. I believe the system has merit. P. S. : I Love your channel... whether you know this or not... by helping men back to their Devine Masculine, you are allowing women to step back into their Devine Femininity.😊
I agree with your perception, his diatribe reduces human function down 2 a risk / reward reaction similar 2 training a dog 4 good behavior. I use the MBTI as part of a composite, it not only provides insight but also allows me 2 determine if I can make the needed adjustments 2 fit a given personality. Carrots & Sticks, like Trix, R 4 kids
you beat me to speak. i too am an INFJ. I love myers briggs. I am still learning about the "cognitive functions." i will admit that it is a bit "difficult to navigate" for the average person. (i theorize that intuitive persons would be able to put it to work.) Nevertheless, I still believe that Dr Taraban has given me much useful insight, especially the tips that bring me "back to earth," such as embracing the masculine and feminine qualities of people.
@@stephanvillavicencio5679I think we enjoy Meyers Briggs because we finally feel understood. Infjs are rare and often misunderstood. Not exactly an easy personality type.
I understand your analogy with the carrot and the stick; the incentive and the punishment. However, I've learned that there are three ways in which to control other people's behavior: 1. Incentives (carrot) 2. Emotions 3. Force (stick) Emotions can be a powerful form of control, and can include virtually all emotions, including: 1. Hatred (you ignite hatred in someone about something and they are likely to do something they wouldn't do otherwise) 2. Shame (shameful people are likely to withdraw and forfeit multiple activities) 3. Honor/virtue/etc (people are likely to do things if you convince them that such is the "right" way, the "virtuose" way)
I think your point about incentives and punishment driving behavior is excellent but I've personally found BOTH MBTI and Love Languages phenomenally useful in understanding people and women I date
For example, love languages basically outlines what you and someone else see as "rewards". My GF and I share physical touch as our #1 and acts of service and words of affirmation so we both find it naturally rewarding the way we both interact
This makes a lot of sense, I really like this episode. Can you expand on this concept further do an episode on how to figure out the carrot and stick incentives that matter to people?
Love how you boil things down to easy to understand concepts... in a hard to understand, seemingly inconsistent and confusing field of study (human behavior). You bring such clarity.
Honestly im using this more introspectively. Like when you say how people tend to imagine carrots and sticks that dont exist in reality. Although i feel confident in my ability to be realistic, i think paying more attention to where my ideas of sticks comes from can help with my anxiety issues i deal with day to day. Ive always had success "logic-ing" my way out of mental ruts, and this is a very useful tool for such endeavors!
I'm very much appreciating this content. Not only it is useful in relationships of love. But it's very important, normal relationships with colleges, neighbours and friends. Thank you
I found you're yt channel out yesterday and your videos are insightful, as a 20 yr old guy. This seems to be better source of information than those diluted online videos on men and women and relationship dynamics.
Brilliant rundown. One must ask what in your opinion is the best way to find out someone's sticks & carrot. The 1st thought is to ask questions, but the subject may not even know it themselves because most people live in a personal reality and not true. Questioning them may work but also may not. Maybe a mixture of questions and observations but the latter takes longer.
Once I tried to change someone's behavior by talking and discussing it with all kindness, but he didn't change. I was very angry and couldn't stand his behavior with me, so I left for a while to calm down. When I came back, I was surprised that he was hurt by my leaving and asked me why I left. I told him that I had no motive to stay! His behavior with me changed since then. Now I know that my leaving was like a stick (pain) for him. And my not staying was because he didn't give me any carrots (pleasure).
The incentives concept and the personality frameworks like MBTI complement each other. I find the MBTI theory extremely helpful in predicting my own and others behaviour, and to understand what makes people tick. Knowing someone’s MBTI type definitely helps with finding their strengths or what they like, and their blind spots or their fears.
Yes, incentives and motivations are the best predictor. It tells you WHY people do what they do. People do things for a payoff. You may not UNDERSTAND what they consider a payoff, but that is irrelevant to understanding their motivation and incentive.
It makes sense. My life experience so far teaches me that most people don’t care to act and they’d rather destroy the relationship. Taking for granted is very common. You spoke about it already.
Thank you! Yes! I've been talking about that for years. I'm a game designer and the way I define games is "systems of incentives toward a goal" and people always bash me on the head when I say "everything regarding living being, especially humans, especially as enomonic agents(agents that transact value through rearranging resources) IS A GAME" GOD I finally feel understood. Love your videos, espwcially the way you abstract relationships as mediums which value is exchanged. Could you recommend some research resources so I can increase my baggage?
Dang you even use the same analogy as I use! Rewards and Punishments are the way to steer agents toward the desired goal. I need to get in touch with you Orion.
I can't wait for your book!! Please let us know soon as it's out. I will be getting it right away! *y'all he mentioned this on a recent show with FnF 😊
Great video! I laughed almost the entire time. I never knew it but, i guess i spent all this time working out my own carrots and sticks, realizing that others do the most to try and figure out what they are. I suppose that ive landed on the ethics part of the situation and practical application. The thumbnail is righteous illustration because how you piece together the notes generally LOOKS crazy...
I've long said that fear of loss, in the stock market, is 4x the motivator versus greed (opportunity for gain). This is why so many sell at the bottom, when pain is greatest, completely missing the fact that this is also when opportunity is actually greatest. I was off by only a fraction in my calculation.
I think the myers briggs is useful to understand oneself. Helped me understand that being creative is more important than to keep trying to push my creativity aside to fit in to society. And it's been true since I've made creativity a priority and stopped trying do what other people do well naturally to keep up with them. I now carve my own path in my skill set. Mbti helped me there.
Listening to people like Dr David Buss and The Lead Attorney, both seem to agree a very important personality trait in the wife is calmness, peacefulness, patience, tolerance to stress, emotional stability, agreeableness. If your wife is aggressive, bossy, combative, disagreeable you will end up in a high conflict divorce.
All due respect, it's wild that this observation is considered insightful. Aggressive, bossy, combative people generally don't do well at maintaining any kind of relationship. It should be as simple as saying "just find someone you get along with", but from what I can tell from the whingings of redpilled guys, most of them seem to just zombie-walk into relationships, and after applying zero selective measures, they're utterly shocked to find their spouse is a antisocial disaster (who likely saw the guy for the sucker he was).
Well yes. But a lot of people don’t want that or they wouldn’t be married to these “crazy women” 😂 Some people like the highs of conflict. Tension. Jealousies. Arguments. Never knowing where you stand. . Or all these women would be single and also it’s biased to put that on women. Men are just as crazy and crap as there is that type of women
@@showcase0525 I think I understand what you're saying... I didn't say it was easy. I went through seven lonely years of celibacy before I met my wife. It was well worth the wait.
@@ALForb Glad you had a positive outcome, but unfortunately your experience is reinforcing my point. No optionality, no means to apply selective measures.
You just helped me get started on putting some finishing touches on somethings. Big appreciation, which is why I'm commenting cause that's about all I can do to support this big dawg wisdom.
Yes, right there at 3:53 -- "Human Action" -- the distillate of Ludvig von Mises book by the same name. Individuals (Human Beings) work toward their own individual benefit -- each of their Human Actions is performed as a means to avoid pain (or discomfort) Or to seek pleasure (comfort)... actions are often cumulative in terms of manifesting a meta-goal such that a measure of discomfort is party to a larger pleasure (achievement). Climbing a mountain (literally) is just one example of this paradigm. If the goal's measure of value is diminished, then the amount of discomfort accomodated will decrease to the point of recognizing a Critical Point -- find a new goal, change directions, invest resources accordingly.
I'm not sure if your name sounds like a hyperspace lane or the frequency that's sets minds up to understand how other people work, but you're on point consistently and without the nonsense modern psychology has adopted in fear of their own carrot/stick decision. I jest as someone who gave his kids 800 years old names, so your parents have to be cool. I'm much more well versed in the oddities of human interactions and reactions, but you manage to repeatedly put observations I've made into words. Thank you.
I've found carrots don't work that well, what would be a carrot for me might make little difference to a woman who I regard as quite similar to myself. I think if you find out what people fear (the stick) and provide reassurance that you are aware of it but will never apply it (if they play ball, of course) they are more likely to stay in your life long-term. For example, if someone fears that if they are unemployed you will drop them or associate with them less, you can say "I'll always be your friend, no matter what. Jobs come and go, what matters to me is you have a good heart." That would make the unemployment-fearing person more likely to relax about your friendship.
I was right this kind of skill i really need to sharpen... I was reading books about this "understanding people." Also I found a psychologist channel hahahaha im so happy to have you sir. You look like tinker in dota 2 too, he is smart like you❤
When you have been hurt narcissists and healing and seeing reality then Dr Taraban gives the absolute truth, I was chasing the carrot to avoid pain...but only pain comes more and more.❤
Unfortunately, the problem with incentives is that not many people really react to incentives as much as we think they do. Heck, even I procrastinate constantly and even when in my best interest would be to get myself to really focus on my work for couple of days. I am also regularly putting off making important decisions or actions even when I know in my best interest is to do them quickly. So incentives is something that is good to understand but we also have to understand that many people behave irrationally or contrary to their own interests and they are frequently aware of the fact that they are hurting themselves with their own actions -- and still can't do much about it. Some people I know can act according to their incentives and just this is enough to get them to be wildly successful. Yes, just not sabotaging yourself is enough to be very successful person.
@psychacks not just positive incentives, avoiding pain or loss is also an incentive to get off your butt. Contentment is another a factor that plays a role in how aggressive or conservative a person might be.
procrastination is also a matter of carrot and stick, but very complex, because people procatrstrinate beause the internalized stick is more powerful than the apparent carrot.
Letting them talk about their past is the easiest way. We are all children who grow up and are forced to be adults. But I think its pretty easy. We are all human, with the same brain chemicals surging thru out bodies. But you definitely have to get an understanding of their childhood
I love the bullshit Orion, the magical thinking of personality types and horoscopes and tarot readings. I love hocus pocus esoteric fantasy bullshit. Archetypes and religions and rituals and Carl Jung and especially INFJs- Great video
My high school economics teacher preached the same thing about incentives. Does that make love a business? It’s certainly an exchange of services. Often negotiated passive aggressively by women.
you've got to know people's OWN incentives: punishment (stick) and reward (carrot). sometimes people have rational behaviors to irrational perceptions. once you understand their carrots and sticks, you can get how their personality works even better than with generic personality tests
Totally agree with you. How can I develop the skills to see the unique combinations of sticks and carrots for each individual and apply it to my relationships?
My (extremely abusive, but very effective) stepfather would try lots of things, and see what stuck, then mashed that button till the other person was raw, and then just alluded to it, and let the other person imagine it. Extremely effective, if immoral. Eventually though my mother and I discovered intrinsic regards that he could not break, and we got rid of him. Hope that helps, don't abuse people with this, it does not end well for anyone.
Heck yeah. Been a kind person, but not really a nice guy. Gets me into trouble with my narcissistic younger violent alcoholic brother. On an island in the middle of the ocean so I can’t escape, so I go no contact/ as I have aged I feel like Bartleby the scrivener, I would prefer not to, so I stay in my lane and seek out people who are purpose driven towards life and less victim driven. Also appreciate people who don’t choose the red or blue pill, I prefer the third pill, the choice not to choose. Choice is so convoluted these days. Anyway, you are a cool dude, appreciated your Mark interview. Next level intellectual rambling you can do, love it. I definitely can’t afford to talk to you, but if I could, I would. Funny how money is the best incentive for most carbon units these days. I find incentives in the now and maybe one day living under a bridge cause I just couldn’t get into society and it’s group psyche. Resisting anyway. ❤😂🤙
It's true that incentives carry a lot of explanatory power when it comes human behaviour (and the behaviour of life in general), but it's unwise for one to move through their interpersonal terrain with carrots and sticks at the forefront of their thoughts. Prioritizing "getting what you want" out of a social life is what a psychopath does. In my experience, that kind of person can be successful in a Machiavellian sense, but they don't tend to build meaningful relationships. You need to have a genuine and affectionate curiosity about individuals if you're to truly understand them in a way that enriches your social life.
I’ve found the people that say they aren’t driven by ego / narcissism … and want to be altruistic are the ones you have to worry about most This is life and best to understand the game then live in fantasy land. How many men got screwed over thinking “but she loves me” or how many women think offering sex will make a man commit to them. It takes more then “love” to turn the wheels of life I always have to use the analogy. You love your wife conditionally. No you don’t have unconditional love for her. If she wanted to do whatever she wanted and you unconditionally supported that. Then you’d be ok if she brought over three dudes and kicked you out of your house to have fun in bed with them. No you would not love that person anymore because why….. an unmet expectation that you have in the relationship she would never dare dream of doing something like that. It’s all conditional at the end of the day. Best accept it so you don’t get ran over at the railroads of divorce court or at least be informed what consequences could be.
@@ssing7113 I don’t deny at all that there’s always a layer of game theory happening, not only in all human interactions, but in all of nature, and I think it’s interesting and it’s good to have an understanding of it. But there are many other layers in a relationship, especially with a friend or spouse, including (sure, always conditional) love. Perhaps I’m a sap, but I’ll always intentionally focus on my affection for people over ever contemplating their carrots/sticks, and this outlook has resulted in a social life and a marriage that keep me happy and healthy. Again, I agree that one should have some awareness of incentives, but I find that people who put an intentional focus on game theory in their relationships tend to reap what they sow.
What if my stick is other people trying to figure out what my carrot and sticks are and my carrot is people just trying to chill and hang out and not stress too much about trying to get things from me.
Edit this: although I like most of your contributions, I must say this one really disappointed me. I am a coach and know how personality types can help people see their own filters, as well as the filters of others. Of course filters are not all what count, but in a Family setting or office relationship, it really helps.
I think, that the sticks and carrots are consequences of deeper emotions, and even the perception of them is. My father used to quote someone, I don't remember who:" If a woman loves you, she forgives all your mistakes, but if she doesn't, she won't even forgive what you do right."
Will you please make a video of examples of psychological carrots and sticks. I beleive that would add some great clarity as to how people interact with each other. How can carrots and sticks be used properly. Such a great topic "Corrots and sticks."
using carrot and sticks are fine and as you pointed out finding out what is a carrot and what is a stick to every individual is extremely variable. now this is where I think other frameworks come in, carrot and sticks! yes I agree, so what framework would you use to know whether something is a stick or a carrot for a particular individual, if you decided to use trial and error on every human on the planet there would be a lot of variance but some people would still fall closer to some than others. then you would have created your own framework. For example a person's father passes away, some people would like to be constantly around other people while some would like to be alone, and just like that a category has been created. as you said most people are not special and we all know someone in our lives who behaves very similarly to someone else that we are also close to. I simply would not recommend going trial and error with every single person in our lives, even if that's what most people do, understanding them a little before hand will definitely be more effective in getting what one wants in almost all scenarios. As someone with a Ph.D in psychology i would to clarify if you think all the research on personality types (Big five and MBTI) was a waste of time and it is not really useful?
As a Virgo-Tiger, INTJ, Right-leaning libertarian Sigma Male, with an IQ somewhere between 155-160 (depending on the day), I can categorically confirm all the above is bollocks, when push comes to shove... You're absolutely correct. Carrots and sticks trump all.
@@hondahirny - 😂... Honestly, as you've obviously spotted, I've come across so many ridiculous generalisations, that supposedly reveal one's character, and none of them mean squat, ultimately. If nothing else, the variations, within various groups, are so great - and overlap so far - as to make them pointless for attempting any meaningful (or useful) character assessment of a specific individual.
Most of the popular metrics people use to understand others -- attachment styles, Myers-Briggs, love languages -- are functionally useless for predicting behavior. The key to understanding others lies in appreciating the incentives under which they are operating: the carrot and the stick. Keep in mind that, in order to be motivating, these incentives don't actually have to exist in reality: they need only exist in their perceptions. In this episode, I discuss some of the ramifications of these observations.
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Presented by Orion Taraban, Psy.D. PsycHacks provides viewers with a brief, thought-provoking video several days a week on a variety of psychological topics, inspired by his clinical practice. The intention is for the core idea contained within each video to inspire viewers to see something about themselves or their world in a slightly different light. The ultimate mission of the channel is to reduce the amount of unnecessary suffering in the world.
#psychology #personality #wisdom
What do you think of the Enneagram?
Behaviorism never fails if properly understood.
Hey Dr. O, this is a guy currently in Bumfuck, India, that's thanking you with what I can afford, in a disastrous currency thats taking a whooping against the dollar, because i just want to say... Thank you.
Damn, this is alot of money.
As a reformed people-pleaser, I agree 100% with Dr. Taraban; I just wish I had known this earlier in life.
Amen to that.
Same. His explanation made perfect sense. My perception about people's disapproval or other 'negative' responses was disproportionately inflated in my mind.
Best is just to not care...
so true. Only realised that now.@@yehonathan.thomas
@@rm6857 As a default position, yes; keep your eye out for exceptions though.
Possibly my favorite channel on RUclips currently.
"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle."
-- Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Hold a contract to their head and make them do it.
Well done. Discovering the internal sticks and carrots can be difficult.
A literal goldmine you are. Would love a more practical example of how we can apply this in real life situations, like a case studie of some sorts, comments are always welcome! Have a great weekend all ❤
You gotta tip him in proportion to the value you feel you've derived from the video first.
He rarely gives practical examples.
@@CeceliPS3yeah, psychacks is like the teacher that explain the lesson but don't always give exercises with the correction. To have something a little bit more concrete I would recommend the channel hoe_maths. There you can see a lot of examples of what psychacks is talking about but in the context of modern dating for people in there 20's.
Then again, hoe_maths is like half theory, half practice.
For true case studies the best is still to do your own experiences. Learn the principles taught by these channels, think how you could verify these principles in your own life, do the experiments, analyze the results and conclude how accurate and useful their ideas are to your own circumstances. Kinda like the scientific approach.
@@Hollowed2wiz Thank you for your very elaborative response, it is appreciated!
@@distinctloafer Hahahaha smooth
i was just thinking about this yesterday. it's important to listen actively to what people are saying and then think about why they might be saying it or acting the way they are
Listen and ask, not listen and assume 😂
Great comment
Thank you.
You made me realize that I am the perfect carrot for my person of interests present and intermediate future. Now we need to check our personal compatibility.
It's absolutely true that carrots and sticks are often subjective, and they can vary a lot from person to person. But isn't it possible that certain psychological frameworks (like the Big Five personality traits) could help us gauge how likely a person is to respond strongly to a certain carrot or stick? It seems like the carrot-and-stick idea and the psychological frameworks wouldn't necessarily be in conflict with each other.
Yeah behaviorism “carrot and stick” is useful, but not in isolation
I suppose as an experienced phycologist, Taraban is very interested in a single person’s perception and experience in life, like one of his many clients, it is his job after all lol. Those formal phycological frameworks could definitely be used to generalize a person’s behavior and predict their perspectives, that make sense to me. It’s quite attractive to the general population because it’s broad, quick and simple, a lot less strenuous and time consuming than years of professional education and study.
Most of them are BS. It has been knwo that all of those personality tests don't work, that is known since 1940 when they were made, and psuchologist said this, the ones that made them. But yes, for general population is fun and simple to have something like that that tell you a personality. That is also why in the US Supreme Court, psychological test are forbidden as proof, even if therapy is recommended that only work as a starting point becauise maybe the diagnosis will change. this is why is not so useful to know personality, specially for people that is not psychologist.
Exactly what I thought. The personality models actually help with understanding someone's motivations as everyone has their own personal versions of carrots and sticks. If Tariban as a psychologist were to assess someone based on his or her psychological carrots and sticks, his assessment would likely be mappable to one of the categories from the personality frameworks.
@@codniggh1139There are lots of disagreements on how useful the type systems are, as there has been forever. So you hear they are useless and useful depending on who you ask.
I learned about the Myers Briggs from a chaplain in the Army. He accurately predicted the short careers of myself and another new officer in our class based on our type. We also probably had the two highest IQ scores in our class, lol.
Im 34, married 10+ years. We have 2 kids and loce each other deeply. Those metrics are all helpful when used together to understand our partners. Men and women think differently and miscommunications are a huge burden on marriage. Understanding my husband is ISTP and im INFP, really helps us give each other space and freedom to accept one another and not try to force the other to change. We accept each others God given natures, but we needed help to figure out how to navigate our differences. Your advice is an added layer of helpfulness but that alone isnt going to keep a marriage for a lifetime. Thats just behaviorism, there is more to connection than "psychology" its MANY LAYERS DEEP.
Its pretty easy to understand people. Everyone's full of shit, just identify their motives & you can cut through the bullshit.
3 basic principles -
1. Most human interactions are manipulative;
2. Most human relationships are transactional;
3. Most people have no issue getting a 'good deal' at your expense.
@@Doberman_6773Could these 3 principles be largely influenced and propagated by Consumer Capitalism since, according to Marx, fundamentally depends upon worker exploitation and social alienation?
@@bgoodfella7413 well, which came first, humans or capitalism?
@@jonprince3237 In many primitive tribes and even third world "socialist" communities today, human relationships are not manipulative and transsactional. They are based on ancient traditions and family ties based on spiritual principles like respecting Mother Nature which Industrialization and burning oil does not.
You are just a deductive reasoner of your own subjective philosophy which isn't as bright or intelligent as you believe it to be.
Living an average life style shouldn't be considered a severe punishment but thanks to social media, it is to guess which gender.
I love being boring. It makes me more adaptable and flexible and content not having to be the center of attention
Am so glad you raised this topic Orion. Admittedly I personally like the Meyers-Briggs Personality Profiling as a Framework for filtering. Being an INFJ, Intuition and gut instinct is almost 99.9% accurate for me, however I do concede that the MB Framework may not be everybody's cup of tea... it is used widely today in job selection. I believe the system has merit.
P. S. : I Love your channel... whether you know this or not... by helping men back to their Devine Masculine, you are allowing women to step back into their Devine Femininity.😊
I agree with your perception, his diatribe reduces human function down 2 a risk / reward reaction similar 2 training a dog 4 good behavior. I use the MBTI as part of a composite, it not only provides insight but also allows me 2 determine if I can make the needed adjustments 2 fit a given personality. Carrots & Sticks, like Trix, R 4 kids
Meyer-Briggs is about as useful as astrology and Tarot cards.
you beat me to speak. i too am an INFJ. I love myers briggs. I am still learning about the "cognitive functions." i will admit that it is a bit "difficult to navigate" for the average person. (i theorize that intuitive persons would be able to put it to work.) Nevertheless, I still believe that Dr Taraban has given me much useful insight, especially the tips that bring me "back to earth," such as embracing the masculine and feminine qualities of people.
@@stephanvillavicencio5679I think we enjoy Meyers Briggs because we finally feel understood. Infjs are rare and often misunderstood. Not exactly an easy personality type.
@@strikingitrich7630Not true! I study Vedic astrology and Meyers Briggs is most advanced.
I have been working on detachment and find myself farrr less anxiuos. Thank you for the lesson.
I understand your analogy with the carrot and the stick; the incentive and the punishment.
However, I've learned that there are three ways in which to control other people's behavior:
1. Incentives (carrot)
2. Emotions
3. Force (stick)
Emotions can be a powerful form of control, and can include virtually all emotions, including:
1. Hatred (you ignite hatred in someone about something and they are likely to do something they wouldn't do otherwise)
2. Shame (shameful people are likely to withdraw and forfeit multiple activities)
3. Honor/virtue/etc (people are likely to do things if you convince them that such is the "right" way, the "virtuose" way)
Very usefull video. The way Dr. Taraban describes psycholgy is amazing!
I think your point about incentives and punishment driving behavior is excellent but I've personally found BOTH MBTI and Love Languages phenomenally useful in understanding people and women I date
For example, love languages basically outlines what you and someone else see as "rewards". My GF and I share physical touch as our #1 and acts of service and words of affirmation so we both find it naturally rewarding the way we both interact
This makes a lot of sense, I really like this episode. Can you expand on this concept further do an episode on how to figure out the carrot and stick incentives that matter to people?
You speak with authority and logic. Just two of the reasons why I watch you and respect your content.
this dude is elite, every video he makes is a goldmine basically
Love how you boil things down to easy to understand concepts... in a hard to understand, seemingly inconsistent and confusing field of study (human behavior). You bring such clarity.
I will always be impressed by this gentleman.
This is one of the most PRACTICAL videos I have watched, thank you.
Honestly im using this more introspectively. Like when you say how people tend to imagine carrots and sticks that dont exist in reality. Although i feel confident in my ability to be realistic, i think paying more attention to where my ideas of sticks comes from can help with my anxiety issues i deal with day to day. Ive always had success "logic-ing" my way out of mental ruts, and this is a very useful tool for such endeavors!
What are some examples of sticks and carrots? You don’t have to say your own ones
I'm very much appreciating this content. Not only it is useful in relationships of love. But it's very important, normal relationships with colleges, neighbours and friends.
Thank you
I found you're yt channel out yesterday and your videos are insightful, as a 20 yr old guy. This seems to be better source of information than those diluted online videos on men and women and relationship dynamics.
Brilliant rundown. One must ask what in your opinion is the best way to find out someone's sticks & carrot.
The 1st thought is to ask questions, but the subject may not even know it themselves because most people live in a personal reality and not true. Questioning them may work but also may not. Maybe a mixture of questions and observations but the latter takes longer.
Once I tried to change someone's behavior by talking and discussing it with all kindness, but he didn't change. I was very angry and couldn't stand his behavior with me, so I left for a while to calm down. When I came back, I was surprised that he was hurt by my leaving and asked me why I left. I told him that I had no motive to stay! His behavior with me changed since then. Now I know that my leaving was like a stick (pain) for him. And my not staying was because he didn't give me any carrots (pleasure).
Any time you are ready to start doing long form talks, I’m ready to pay for them. Love your insights.
The incentives concept and the personality frameworks like MBTI complement each other. I find the MBTI theory extremely helpful in predicting my own and others behaviour, and to understand what makes people tick. Knowing someone’s MBTI type definitely helps with finding their strengths or what they like, and their blind spots or their fears.
True!
Why does an INFJ's auxiliary have to be extraverted feeling? Why couldn't it be extaverted intuition?
How is introverted feeling different from introverted thinking?
I have read Jung on types and didn't get satisfying answers.
@@joshua_finchi suppose thinking and feeling are about attachment and detachment while forming judgements
“When value is clear, decisions are easy.”
Awesome episode! Thank you for what you do!!
Yes, incentives and motivations are the best predictor. It tells you WHY people do what they do. People do things for a payoff. You may not UNDERSTAND what they consider a payoff, but that is irrelevant to understanding their motivation and incentive.
Nice mid century setup Doc 😉
It makes sense.
My life experience so far teaches me that most people don’t care to act and they’d rather destroy the relationship. Taking for granted is very common. You spoke about it already.
Thank you! Yes! I've been talking about that for years. I'm a game designer and the way I define games is "systems of incentives toward a goal" and people always bash me on the head when I say "everything regarding living being, especially humans, especially as enomonic agents(agents that transact value through rearranging resources) IS A GAME"
GOD I finally feel understood. Love your videos, espwcially the way you abstract relationships as mediums which value is exchanged. Could you recommend some research resources so I can increase my baggage?
Dang you even use the same analogy as I use!
Rewards and Punishments are the way to steer agents toward the desired goal.
I need to get in touch with you Orion.
I can't wait for your book!! Please let us know soon as it's out. I will be getting it right away!
*y'all he mentioned this on a recent show with FnF 😊
This man doesn’t miss!
Great video!
I laughed almost the entire time. I never knew it but, i guess i spent all this time working out my own carrots and sticks, realizing that others do the most to try and figure out what they are. I suppose that ive landed on the ethics part of the situation and practical application.
The thumbnail is righteous illustration because how you piece together the notes generally LOOKS crazy...
Dr.Taraban you’ve come at the right time for us.
Dr. Orion Taraban is a true gift! Thank you and Happy Holidays.
Eye-opening perspective. Thank you!
I've long said that fear of loss, in the stock market, is 4x the motivator versus greed (opportunity for gain). This is why so many sell at the bottom, when pain is greatest, completely missing the fact that this is also when opportunity is actually greatest. I was off by only a fraction in my calculation.
A LOT of wisdom in this video, as always, Thanks for sharing all these videos for free
Daammn! This goes hard! I’m so glad I subscribed to this channel🔥🔥
I think the myers briggs is useful to understand oneself. Helped me understand that being creative is more important than to keep trying to push my creativity aside to fit in to society. And it's been true since I've made creativity a priority and stopped trying do what other people do well naturally to keep up with them. I now carve my own path in my skill set. Mbti helped me there.
Listening to people like Dr David Buss and The Lead Attorney, both seem to agree a very important personality trait in the wife is calmness, peacefulness, patience, tolerance to stress, emotional stability, agreeableness. If your wife is aggressive, bossy, combative, disagreeable you will end up in a high conflict divorce.
All due respect, it's wild that this observation is considered insightful. Aggressive, bossy, combative people generally don't do well at maintaining any kind of relationship. It should be as simple as saying "just find someone you get along with", but from what I can tell from the whingings of redpilled guys, most of them seem to just zombie-walk into relationships, and after applying zero selective measures, they're utterly shocked to find their spouse is a antisocial disaster (who likely saw the guy for the sucker he was).
Well yes. But a lot of people don’t want that or they wouldn’t be married to these “crazy women” 😂
Some people like the highs of conflict. Tension. Jealousies. Arguments. Never knowing where you stand. . Or all these women would be single and also it’s biased to put that on women. Men are just as crazy and crap as there is that type of women
@@ALForbif you think most guys have the optionally to apply selectiveness that your holding in your mind, then you might reevaluate your position.
@@showcase0525 I think I understand what you're saying...
I didn't say it was easy. I went through seven lonely years of celibacy before I met my wife. It was well worth the wait.
@@ALForb Glad you had a positive outcome, but unfortunately your experience is reinforcing my point. No optionality, no means to apply selective measures.
You just helped me get started on putting some finishing touches on somethings. Big appreciation, which is why I'm commenting cause that's about all I can do to support this big dawg wisdom.
Yes, right there at 3:53 -- "Human Action" -- the distillate of Ludvig von Mises book by the same name. Individuals (Human Beings) work toward their own individual benefit -- each of their Human Actions is performed as a means to avoid pain (or discomfort) Or to seek pleasure (comfort)... actions are often cumulative in terms of manifesting a meta-goal such that a measure of discomfort is party to a larger pleasure (achievement). Climbing a mountain (literally) is just one example of this paradigm. If the goal's measure of value is diminished, then the amount of discomfort accomodated will decrease to the point of recognizing a Critical Point -- find a new goal, change directions, invest resources accordingly.
Thanks Orion
In gambling, I ALWAYS remember the many of losses over the few wins. (I live in Vegas, so I sometimes put a twenty in a machine at a grocery store. )
Maybe you should stop doing that.
You’re outstanding. Thank you ✊
Thanks from Austria! Great content!
I'm not sure if your name sounds like a hyperspace lane or the frequency that's sets minds up to understand how other people work, but you're on point consistently and without the nonsense modern psychology has adopted in fear of their own carrot/stick decision. I jest as someone who gave his kids 800 years old names, so your parents have to be cool. I'm much more well versed in the oddities of human interactions and reactions, but you manage to repeatedly put observations I've made into words. Thank you.
I've found carrots don't work that well, what would be a carrot for me might make little difference to a woman who I regard as quite similar to myself. I think if you find out what people fear (the stick) and provide reassurance that you are aware of it but will never apply it (if they play ball, of course) they are more likely to stay in your life long-term. For example, if someone fears that if they are unemployed you will drop them or associate with them less, you can say "I'll always be your friend, no matter what. Jobs come and go, what matters to me is you have a good heart." That would make the unemployment-fearing person more likely to relax about your friendship.
I was right this kind of skill i really need to sharpen... I was reading books about this "understanding people." Also I found a psychologist channel hahahaha im so happy to have you sir. You look like tinker in dota 2 too, he is smart like you❤
Please elaborate further or give examples of both carrots and sticks in another video! Great content!
When you have been hurt narcissists and healing and seeing reality then Dr Taraban gives the absolute truth, I was chasing the carrot to avoid pain...but only pain comes more and more.❤
Unfortunately, the problem with incentives is that not many people really react to incentives as much as we think they do.
Heck, even I procrastinate constantly and even when in my best interest would be to get myself to really focus on my work for couple of days.
I am also regularly putting off making important decisions or actions even when I know in my best interest is to do them quickly.
So incentives is something that is good to understand but we also have to understand that many people behave irrationally or contrary to their own interests and they are frequently aware of the fact that they are hurting themselves with their own actions -- and still can't do much about it.
Some people I know can act according to their incentives and just this is enough to get them to be wildly successful. Yes, just not sabotaging yourself is enough to be very successful person.
Keep in mind that incentives are what *actually* motivate behavior -- not what we might think *should* do so.
@psychacks not just positive incentives, avoiding pain or loss is also an incentive to get off your butt. Contentment is another a factor that plays a role in how aggressive or conservative a person might be.
procrastination is also a matter of carrot and stick, but very complex, because people procatrstrinate beause the internalized stick is more powerful than the apparent carrot.
The Dr. Does it again
In a Post-Apocalyptic world, I'll be using this to RULE and RECRUIT my Gang of Looters ... and I'll have an actual Stick that I will nickname "Carrot"
“You’re really only limited by the punitive function of society and your own conscience” 🤣🤣
Fantastic insight. Yes, it fits with my experience. :)
This is a FANTASTIC episode. Could you do a more detailed follow up episode on how to determine what peoples carrots and sticks are?
Sentiment is the same. It felt like a teaser. I was so locked in and then tue episode ended.😅
Agreed, too interesting a topic! Please expand.
Letting them talk about their past is the easiest way. We are all children who grow up and are forced to be adults. But I think its pretty easy. We are all human, with the same brain chemicals surging thru out bodies. But you definitely have to get an understanding of their childhood
True we need more concrete examples
People like to understand themselves and others.
Great topic! Please expand in future videos!
“A glorified horoscope” I’ve never laughed so hard at something so undeniably true
I love the bullshit Orion, the magical thinking of personality types and horoscopes and tarot readings. I love hocus pocus esoteric fantasy bullshit. Archetypes and religions and rituals and Carl Jung and especially INFJs- Great video
I just read a book that mentioned Jung being part of the Feminist movement .. thought was interesting. *or at least an influence
Same, especially infj and Carl Jung
My high school economics teacher preached the same thing about incentives. Does that make love a business? It’s certainly an exchange of services. Often negotiated passive aggressively by women.
Thank you Orion
you've got to know people's OWN incentives: punishment (stick) and reward (carrot). sometimes people have rational behaviors to irrational perceptions. once you understand their carrots and sticks, you can get how their personality works even better than with generic personality tests
Totally agree with you. How can I develop the skills to see the unique combinations of sticks and carrots for each individual and apply it to my relationships?
Ask yourself what’s the motivating factor for the opposite sex’s desire for a relationship.
My (extremely abusive, but very effective) stepfather would try lots of things, and see what stuck, then mashed that button till the other person was raw, and then just alluded to it, and let the other person imagine it. Extremely effective, if immoral. Eventually though my mother and I discovered intrinsic regards that he could not break, and we got rid of him.
Hope that helps, don't abuse people with this, it does not end well for anyone.
That's a powerful framework...
Heck yeah. Been a kind person, but not really a nice guy. Gets me into trouble with my narcissistic younger violent alcoholic brother. On an island in the middle of the ocean so I can’t escape, so I go no contact/ as I have aged I feel like Bartleby the scrivener, I would prefer not to, so I stay in my lane and seek out people who are purpose driven towards life and less victim driven. Also appreciate people who don’t choose the red or blue pill, I prefer the third pill, the choice not to choose. Choice is so convoluted these days. Anyway, you are a cool dude, appreciated your Mark interview. Next level intellectual rambling you can do, love it. I definitely can’t afford to talk to you, but if I could, I would. Funny how money is the best incentive for most carbon units these days. I find incentives in the now and maybe one day living under a bridge cause I just couldn’t get into society and it’s group psyche. Resisting anyway. ❤😂🤙
As always, great insights.
Your video is so amazing. Keep it up and you will do GREAT
Thanks!
wow, this was gold
Mind blowing,orion :)
MBTI helped me immensely in choosing a partner in my culture. Lol!
True! You always have to consider their environment & values.
Good stuff Doc.
amazing
It's true that incentives carry a lot of explanatory power when it comes human behaviour (and the behaviour of life in general), but it's unwise for one to move through their interpersonal terrain with carrots and sticks at the forefront of their thoughts. Prioritizing "getting what you want" out of a social life is what a psychopath does. In my experience, that kind of person can be successful in a Machiavellian sense, but they don't tend to build meaningful relationships. You need to have a genuine and affectionate curiosity about individuals if you're to truly understand them in a way that enriches your social life.
So...is building meaningful relationships and having genuine curiosity what you want out of life?
@@psychacks Yes, good point. But doing so doesn't involve many carrots or sticks.
I’ve found the people that say they aren’t driven by ego / narcissism … and want to be altruistic are the ones you have to worry about most
This is life and best to understand the game then live in fantasy land. How many men got screwed over thinking “but she loves me” or how many women think offering sex will make a man commit to them. It takes more then “love” to turn the wheels of life
I always have to use the analogy. You love your wife conditionally. No you don’t have unconditional love for her. If she wanted to do whatever she wanted and you unconditionally supported that. Then you’d be ok if she brought over three dudes and kicked you out of your house to have fun in bed with them. No you would not love that person anymore because why….. an unmet expectation that you have in the relationship she would never dare dream of doing something like that. It’s all conditional at the end of the day. Best accept it so you don’t get ran over at the railroads of divorce court or at least be informed what consequences could be.
@@ssing7113 I don’t deny at all that there’s always a layer of game theory happening, not only in all human interactions, but in all of nature, and I think it’s interesting and it’s good to have an understanding of it. But there are many other layers in a relationship, especially with a friend or spouse, including (sure, always conditional) love. Perhaps I’m a sap, but I’ll always intentionally focus on my affection for people over ever contemplating their carrots/sticks, and this outlook has resulted in a social life and a marriage that keep me happy and healthy. Again, I agree that one should have some awareness of incentives, but I find that people who put an intentional focus on game theory in their relationships tend to reap what they sow.
What if my stick is other people trying to figure out what my carrot and sticks are and my carrot is people just trying to chill and hang out and not stress too much about trying to get things from me.
Now I'm in the mood to snack on some carrot sticks
But the important question is... with or without ranch? ☺
A GSOH is always refreshing...I definitely chuckled 👍
Great video
Edit this: although I like most of your contributions, I must say this one really disappointed me. I am a coach and know how personality types can help people see their own filters, as well as the filters of others. Of course filters are not all what count, but in a Family setting or office relationship, it really helps.
Sun in Leo 🤣 I love you Doc! This is gold
I’ve thought this for a long time.
I think, that the sticks and carrots are consequences of deeper emotions, and even the perception of them is.
My father used to quote someone, I don't remember who:" If a woman loves you, she forgives all your mistakes, but if she doesn't, she won't even forgive what you do right."
Or maybe it was with flaws and streghts, but it is the same,
Excellent discussion
Fascinating
Orion, you just scratched the surface. You need to develop this topic more.
Love your channel bro
Will you please make a video of examples of psychological carrots and sticks. I beleive that would add some great clarity as to how people interact with each other. How can carrots and sticks be used properly. Such a great topic "Corrots and sticks."
This is awsome
Personalities in human beings are a very real thing.
The best!
Great videos............would you expand it to people over 65 ............espically widowers ,........as we have different issues
using carrot and sticks are fine and as you pointed out finding out what is a carrot and what is a stick to every individual is extremely variable. now this is where I think other frameworks come in, carrot and sticks! yes I agree, so what framework would you use to know whether something is a stick or a carrot for a particular individual, if you decided to use trial and error on every human on the planet there would be a lot of variance but some people would still fall closer to some than others. then you would have created your own framework. For example a person's father passes away, some people would like to be constantly around other people while some would like to be alone, and just like that a category has been created. as you said most people are not special and we all know someone in our lives who behaves very similarly to someone else that we are also close to. I simply would not recommend going trial and error with every single person in our lives, even if that's what most people do, understanding them a little before hand will definitely be more effective in getting what one wants in almost all scenarios. As someone with a Ph.D in psychology i would to clarify if you think all the research on personality types (Big five and MBTI) was a waste of time and it is not really useful?
As a Virgo-Tiger, INTJ, Right-leaning libertarian Sigma Male, with an IQ somewhere between 155-160 (depending on the day), I can categorically confirm all the above is bollocks, when push comes to shove... You're absolutely correct. Carrots and sticks trump all.
Virgo Tiger. Love it 😂
@@hondahirny - 😂... Honestly, as you've obviously spotted, I've come across so many ridiculous generalisations, that supposedly reveal one's character, and none of them mean squat, ultimately. If nothing else, the variations, within various groups, are so great - and overlap so far - as to make them pointless for attempting any meaningful (or useful) character assessment of a specific individual.