I had this idea that he could’ve been called, “Martian Manhunter”, because he was probably hunting down the Manhunter robots from Oa when they went nuts OR He was part of Oa’s Manhunter program for some reason.
Agreed. I enjoyed the movie but much of it would have been improved if we didn't have to focus on establishing every character's motivations and backstories.
I came to say the same. If we had Flash, Cyborg, WW and Aquaman movies before this, it would have been easy to cut 45 minutes. Cut another 20 minutes by having slomo at normal speed. Cut the ending. Then tighten a minute her and there and you have a 140 minute movie.
I like Cyborg being intertwined with this movie's plot, it's unique. Flash should've had a standalone though, his solo scenes feel like we're watching a completely different movie.
Cyborg being so tightly linked to the McGuffin makes it pretty hard to introduce him beforehand. I don't think the motherboxes are as big a deal to the DCverse as the infinity stones are to Marvel, so keeping them contained to a single movie makes the most sense. The other characters don't have any reason whatsoever to be introduced in this movie.
In all honesty, I think the best way to handle Martian Manhunter's introduction here... is for him to give his actual name. Have him introduce himself as J'onn J'onzz, and at some point (not necessarily even in this movie), have someone else start calling him the 'Martian Manhunter' - especially if he gets a movie set in the '40s as suggested (which would, in fact, be awesome).
I honestly think making Manhunter responsible for Batman's Knightmares would've made his appearance worth it and the Knightmares actually make sense. Manhunter's powers including telepathy and empathic precognition, right? Well, put them together and you have Manhunter implanting the post-apocalyptic future into Bruce's dreams as warnings in both BvS and The Snyder Cut of what it is to come.
Really liked how Cyborg was the heart of the story and had a big part in the finale, same as Flash. However, I definitely would want a more simplified version look for Cyborg with a bit more color. Steppenwolf and Cyborg have a Michael Bay's Transformers vibe to them.
Fr. Just shards of undulating metal. I liked Cyborg more in this one, but hot damn they will NOT let Ray Fischer ACT in these! Poor guy just has to deadpan all of his line deliveries and is forced to emote in like 2 total scenes. WB, Joss, and Zack did him dirty
I mean other than the teen titans cartoon back in the day adding blue. I think Cyborg is always just silver. Sometimes they add a bit of black. Also I know this is opinion, but I don't think every character needs to be colorful. Grey and silver don't necessarily have to be boring colors. The same way black doesn’t always mean evil.
@@byronsenior6499 I think adding some blue circuitry and some black parts for contrast would go a long way, especially since Zack Snyder really likes to make his movies look unsaturated and gray. Teen Titans has my favorite design for Cyborg since he also a distinctive silouhette. In this movie, I honestly think he looks better when you can only see his head and just the red light on his chest under his clothes.
@@grimbostink7607 If Cyborg's body was a bit more like Steppenwolf where the metal is shifting around out since he can't control it all the time, I think it would have been a cool effect.
The best way I’ve seen the Snyder Cut described is, the story of how it came to be is more interesting than the movie itself. Like if we got this movie the first time around, we could take it or leave it, but it feels so much bigger now due to the road to bringing it to life.
@@captainmarvelous7678 well said. Plus, the dedication to Autumn at the end made me realize. This is 100% Zack Snyder's. No more excuses about studios or deals. And, this artwork was ultimately made for his daughter. We fans are just along for the ride.
Lmao majority of the people I’ve seen praising this movie don’t even have any idea what happened BTS. I think it’s time you lot just accepted that most think this movie is very good.
I read on twitter that Zack Snyder originally wanted Green Lantern John Stewart but WB didn't allow it. Snyder still wanted to include another POC hero in the movie so he had to go for Martian Manhunter instead.
Don’t trust everything you read on Twitter. But if that’s true, John Stewart definitely would have been a better choice, considering how they were hyping up the lanterns in this cut
@@daniellins4114 I haven't seen the theatrical cut of JL and have never felt the need to. I put off seeing BvS for YEARS until seeing it about a month ago in preparation for the Snyder Cut. Long story short, BvS (Ultimate Edition) was the most frustrating comic book film I've ever seen and The Snyder Cut of JL was pretty ok with a lot of small moments impressing me. The fleshing out of Cyborg (along with Steppenwolf) was superb, Flash was actually entertaining, Batfleck earned has status as arguably the best iteration of that character (shame his movies weren't as good as Bale's though) and I was finally driven to unironically cheer for Superman. But the overly long music video scenes for Aquaman and Wonder Woman's theme might have given my ears PTSD.
The Norweigean people are actually Icelandic and are speaking Icelandic, also of the three women in the front at 4:54 the one on the right is Ágústa Eva who competed at eurovision in the early 2000’s Another ester egg, she was also my kidnergarten teacher
Re: Act 3 big super hero moment: “If you’ve seen the movie, you know exactly what I’m talking about”... I actually don’t know what he’s talking about... is it Barry?
Also should Martian Manhunter help out in the world-ending conflict? Seems very cowardly. He shows up at the end, saying: "hey if something like this, but not this, happens again, I may stop by to help out a little."
Why should he have helped before? He's not human. He's hiding here illegally. If you were illegally living in another country would you be in a hurry to join their army if they got attacked?
Well this seems kinda Captain Marvel in the MCU, but applying logic, Martian Manhunter has precognition skills, maybe he was waiting for the creation of the proper JL
I like to believe he was actually busy keeping the military away from the Russian city so the Justice League could do their thing without interference Either that or he didn't wanna help because there was alot of fire
Part of why you go to a superhero movie is because you like the characters and you want to watch them fight. Wonder Woman was literally blocking bullets with her gauntlets and standing a foot in front of those hostages saving their lives, was amazing. This scene showed how she's inspires others from the little girl asking her if she could be like her when she grows up
We've had a lot of superhero movies over the last decade where a character's Superhero Name was never even said out loud, and it was fine. If there was ever a character where that should've applied, it's Martian Manhunter. And they did it so on the nose. I didn't actually know that "manhunter" was a term for private detective, though. And now I want a solo movie of John Jones as P.I. that's a period piece that actually contextualizes that terminology.
i absolutely hated the conversation with flash and batman about “saving just one”, because i feel barry is just so instinctively protective that he would just try to help in anyway
I think the problem is that we got to see Superman learn his abilities and become a hero, but we didn't get to see that for Flash. So there's some people that want him to just be a hero and some people (like me) that would prefer to have seen a proper origin for him where he actually becomes a hero in his own right. Some moments in both versions of the Justice League movie show that they're trying to catch Flash up (ironically) to the rest of the heroes but he deserved to have that story in his own movie before the team up.
This was a great movie experience for me. The only issues i had the film was 1. The dialogue at certain parts of the film. 2. The constant use of the Wonder Woman's theme every time she had an action sequence on camera. 3. The children singing as Aquaman dives into the ocean. 4. The last scene with Martian Manhunter was not necessary.
@@rob.carrillo the only thing I found was another person saying the same thing as you and a reply saying Barry Allen. This makes me think they're talking about him reversing time
Truth be told Nando, I'm not sure that a 2-hour version of this film would even be fully coherent(it would be definitely better than what we got in 2017 though). I think that there's just too much that they need to cover in this one film; establishing 2-3 new characters and a lot of background. However, I do think it could definitely be trimmed down to about 2.5 - 3 hours(a lot of scenes that were just a little too long and some scenes that could easily be removed altogether).
In this day and age TV shows are kinda doing better than movies Cinemas are dying out, it's a sad thing but truthful The Boys is a great example, you spend alot more time with the characters than in a simple 2 hour movie, Marvel did this thing where characters would show up in other movies so its basically a really long series Well if you just stream line it and go for series you'll have a much better time A 4 hour movie seems like alot when you put it that way A 4 episode mini series you binge for 4 hours Makes it seem alot less long
@@GMYSTERYICTNF People have been predicting the end of cinema for years, maybe even decades, and they’re always proven wrong. People enjoy the cinema experience and the industry has only gotten stronger with each year. So good look with that theory What do you mean tv shows have been “doing better” than movies? If you mean they are more profitable, than that’s blatantly false. If you mean they are better at telling stories, that’s a subjective opinion. At the end of the day, a four hour long movie IS different to a mini series. Movies are paced differently, and the episodes in a series have a self contained narrative, with a beginning, middle and end. Obviously they are interconnected but they have to also be watchable on their own. The same can’t be said about the Synder Cut, each part does not work on its own. It’s clearly meant to be watched in one sitting.
Having not seen either cut of this movie: strongly disagree that you can cut the Wonder Woman scene where she stops the terrorists at the bank. How many scenes are there, in either version, depict the heroes actually *saving* people? If we're cutting scenes with superheroes blocking bullets aimed at innocent people and tossing bombs into the sky at the last second, we're cutting what makes them superheroes in the first place. Anyway, keep up the interesting content!
It’s SO simple. make Flashpoint. When it’s done, change everything that didn’t work. Keep everything that did, and then just keep the DCEU going forever
5:01 and 7:01 HIGHLY disagree. They shot the arrow to warn Diana and send her to the ruins where the history of what happened in the past, resided. It was crucial to her character to introduce the information necessary for the rest of the movie. Aquaman scene at 7:01 was necessary to show the chip on his shoulder, that would eventually play out in the Aquaman movie. In this Justice League movie, it was to show his acceptance of his Atlantean culture and work with it against a single cause.
these likely make the most sense in retrospect. 5:01 doesnt need to be so long, and really this is only really necessary if it pays off. With this being the end of all of this story, it really doesnt matter. 7:01 doesnt matter because the theatrical cut and aquaman adequately convey that issue without needing to force it into the justice league movie. if this had all been done well, we could have had man of steel, a batman movie that introduces this batman and hints at the coming confict with superman. Wonder Woman that introduces Diana, and parts of atlantis. BvS, Flash movie that introduces cyborg, and THEN Justice league. The fact they thought they could make this work in 3 steps was insane and ultimately pointless.
It's a very important point, but in a standard movie the arrow scene would have been 20-30 seconds long, tops. It was super drawn out, like so many other things that didn't need to be.
@@rui5421 I think that your idea for small team ups and introductions works great. Especially since many don't want every single character to need their own movie. (I personally would rather get more small stories than few big stories, but your suggestion is exactly what I think works as well.)
i believe Martian Manhunter didn't fit in, and all this footage that didn't fit, but I just viewed it as Snyder's bonus clips. He put all of the footage on the table, probably knowing he won't get this chance again. That's the perspective I get from this. Still a good to great film!
I saw in a interview from ZS where he said that originally he didn’t plan for a Martian Manhunter appearance, the epilogue was supposed to end with the appearance of green lantern warning batman. Warner bros didn’t want him to use Green lantern so he had to pick another hero who could fit the idea of extraterrestrial help against Darkseid. That’s probably why the scene where MMH incarnate Martha Kent feels wrong, i speculate that it was supposed to be just a regular Martha+Loïs emotionnal scene at first but he changed things to make the appearance of MMH consistent.
This is exactly how I felt about the movie as well. I would only add the pet cemetery bit when Superman attacks. Not the buildup to it but just the one line the Flash says. It's only a couple seconds, it's hilarious and if you someone doesn't get the joke it's done already so they shouldn't care. If that was tossed in there I would be happy too. Great vid.
It’s an improvement over the theatrical cut (save for a handful of moments), as the characters have more dignified personalities and Cyborg gets his character arc back. However, judged solely on its own merits, I think it’s just fine. It’s watchable enough and has solid acting and cinematography, but the story doesn’t have much to write home about.
Martian Manhunter, the Swiss Army knife of superheroes, was looking at things from afar and then saying thanks afterwards instead of........joining them??? Imagine Captain Marvel at the end of Infinity War being like “Oh I wasn’t far into space, I was getting a latte. Thanks for trying tho. You guys looked great.”
I saw this movie in black and white and so I didn't even know that Supes was in the black suit till now. Geeze, they really just thought we'd all fan-swoon at that. Missed the mark by a long shot.
Idk if anyone else felt this way, but the manhunter scene, especially where he says his name, it feels to me at lot like the scene in Star Trek: Into Darkness where Khan goes "my name... is khan" and then we the audience are supposed to go like oooOOOOooh and the characters just stand there like "ok cool is that supposed to mean something"
I couldn't have reviewed this video better myself. Perfect amount of harshness on the Martian Manhunter thing, and I love that character!! I'm so hyped I'm avout to go sign up for curiosity stream and then head to patreon lol
7:14 So pretty sure I know what scene Nando is talking about also Spoilers It's the scene where Barry goes faster then the speed of light to save everyone.
I feel like people still have hype goggles with this movie. Don't get me wrong, I definently think it's better than the Joshtice League, but it suffers from some of the same problems the Joshtice League does. For example, StepenWolf, while better than in the Joshtice League, is still pretty bad, he went from Malekith do...something better than Malekith. And that's without mentioning the more...personally bad stuff, like Snyder's directorial style, which is being praised in this while hated in Snyder's other movies by the same people. Again, I definently think it's better than Joshtice League, and as Nando said, even though the whole Twitter thing and fans was...weird to say the least, I am happy for Zack. I just believe people aren't seeing it's flaws because of all the hype it had and how it delivered on being better than the Joshtice League. As for the duration thing...I mean, i definently think a Snyder Cut - Cut would be awesome, but as someone who watches every Thursday 3-5 hour DnD show...yeah, I don't mind that much.
It has flaws but I feel as though people are getting that confused with just nitpicks and personal likes and dislikes. A movie can objectively have a flaw but those who pick at them suddenly always diverge from what may make the movie flawed as whole, and go more so into what makes it flawed for them. Like how none of these characters could be to ur exact liking of how they are in the comics. Or the directing style. These all seem like personal nitpicks that I’m not saying u shouldn’t have, but I wouldn’t say they should make the film bad as a whole for the people who liked. The people saying it’s a great film are either people who had been wanting this for a long time or those who genuinely weren’t expecting much from it. I’m one of those people. So yea I see your point, but hype goggles or not, they liked what they saw and that should be more than enough. No one is saying that the film doesn’t have flaws.
@@darkfire2942 A lot of people are, unfortunetly. About the other thing, of course, personal dislikings are different than flaws, that's why I separated my Steppenwolf example from Zack's direction style.
I mean I expected to fucking despise the movie, as i did the original, but i was genuinely surprised, I still dislike a few parts (Martian Manhunter didn't need to be there) but I genuinely think it's a way better experience than the Josstice league. The 4 hour runtime was good for me, really good, I've watched the LotR movies in a day, this is child's play I gave the original a 2/10 this was a solid 7.5/10
He the son and frankly he was interesting. I enjoyed his character and accepted it wasn’t a traditional copy paste of boring old Lex like we’ve had for the last 40 years.
@@sullivandmitry1416 that's what I've been telling people for ever and they always come to the same conclusion " I didn't know that.. that makes me like him more"
To be honest, I don't think the "parts" are meant as chapters, but meant as pause time, like interludes at the opera: but instead of one interlude between two sections, we had like 5 interludes between the 6 parts.
There’s so much restraint coming from this man, trying to express that it isnt a great movie, but also trying to avoid upsetting the mega fans of this cut XD
So he wants to make money without being true to himself, AKA he's a sell-out, okay. It's been a couple of years since Nando's content has taken a downturn really bad.
@@AdellRedwinters The toxic mega fans that the Snyder haters made up as something to use as a trashing tool. Exactly like SJW's needs their racists, or whatever they find in their political opponents.
I definitely like this movie, but I agree with Nando that there should be a perfect version of this movie, one that manages to depict Superman in a heroic light (like the Whedon version) and give us amazing moments like “Faster than light”.
10:32 I don't agree with that point. That scene had people dying, and then Flash and Batman stepped back to say a couple jokes. Granted Steppenwolf wasn't killing anyone in Snyder's version, but the fact that they went straight in and saved people instead of sitting back and joking about the situation is much better.
If there was a sixth not nice thing I’d say, Superman did not need to come back to life in this movie. I get that he’s supposed to be their Godzilla threshold against Steppenwolf, but he never really seemed all that tough and they already had three heavy hitters anyway. So when Superman shows up to clobber Steppenwolf, it feels less like the tables have turned and more just another character to beat the crap out of him. In fact, Supes got some major plot armor in that scene because Steppenwolf’s ax should’ve cut him in half. Superman’s invulnerability has never been that strong before. But even then, it felt like Superman returning to life required its own film. Having him return with like 30 or so minutes left felt like a waste of a good idea.
In other NandoVMovies videos, he says pretty much what you've said. Although in his Justice League rewrite (before the Snyder Cut was released), he had a very different story that would have worked much better as a sort of team-up prequel to the whole Steppenwolf arrival and allowed the DCEU to properly build up to it.
Can we talk about how the Martian Martha scene took away Batman agency in bringing Lois to the Superman fight, meaning that Bruce ignored the advice from future self? He never saved Lois and the ending Wastland scene means nothing, because we se the future created by ignoring the advice, like in this one. Also, I want a Wasteland Batman film
I'm not a Snyder fan by any means, but most of the stuff before the dream sequence crap at the end makes for a pretty damn good movie. If it was trimmed down to 3 hours, I'd love it.
I don't have much of an issue with the black suit because the first thing Superman does with it, is go straight to space to recharge (fulfilling in the main intended purpose for it being in the black color). If that scene was not there and he immediately went for Steppenwolf, then it would be just a color change with no other purpose to suggest in the "show not tell category". I agree that ZSJL can be edited down from 4 hours. Take out the epilogue, some of the indulgent character scenes (like the Aquaman one you mentioned) and the slow mo scenes, I do believe we could have gotten around a coherent 3 hour theatrical cut of this movie even in 2017. I personally enjoyed watching it and at least felt there was a purpose/through-line from MoS, BvS Ultimate and now with ZSJL to how characters were portrayed. It made sense to me.
I think the first half of the film can be trimmed down. There were a lot of dull spots, the second half of the movie was solid and keeps my attention pretty well.
This movie never existed. I recall reading a story saying it was "unwatchable". Whatever this movie would've been it has changed through time, hindsight and changing sensibilities. It's definitely nothing like the movie that would've come out if Zack had made it originally. I think he still indulges some of his worst instincts. Like excessive slo mo and overlong scenes. Given that he made this without the studio because it was going to streaming you can be sure they would've involved themselves much more in a cut that would have gone to theatres.
I believe the unwatchable comment was referring to the fact the cut was unfinished and unedited back when Snyder made that comment, that is what the money to make it was spent on, I think the only reshoots were the final scenes
97 percent of the movie was shot before the release of the theatrical version. U do know that this version is the compromise between him and the studio story wise before whendon came with his reshoots
Martian man hunter at the end was supposed to be Green Lantern, it Warner Brothers begged Zack Snyder to not use green lantern so instead he just used Martian Manhunter
The black suit is still the regeneration suit. That’s why he immediately flies up towards the sun after putting it on so he can absorb sunlight before going to join the others against Steppenwolf. Snyder often visually explains things to the audience rather than explaining through dialogue.
Also I don't get why Superman took the black suit. He wasn't a bad guy in this movie and there was no other reasoning behind him taking it. He just decides he wants the black suit this time
This is the first review where I’ve agreed with EVERYTHING said! Specifically I don’t get the love fest for Barry Allen and shoehorning in Martian Manhunter
I completely agree about the "different version of something else that doesn't actually exist" feeling. I get that same feeling watching Pacific Rim, like my brain keeps trying to fill-in the voltron-esque anime series that I would have loved as a kid so much that I almost felt nostalgia watching it the first time.
I swear to christ how we are still acting that a 4hr movie is "too long" and "too big of a committment" I just don't understand given our current day culture's obsession with binging watching.
Movies and TV series are two different things. Movies are intended to be watched all at once, while series are expected to be watched one episode at a time.
@@frick_____you how does that account for the modern model of binge watching? Or the fact that a lot of modern shows are written and filmed in a way where it’s done as a 10-13hr movie instead of 10-13 individual episodes?
While JL definitely has elements it could cut out, I don't disagree with your overall sentiment. At the same time though, I personally treat my own time as a commodity, and if a movie seems too long for me I'll have to skip, unless I make the time for it like JL
All I gotta say is that I have passed out trying to watch The lord of the rings on 4 different occasions and it only took me one time to finish the Snyder cut of the Justice league.
No. What really happened is it's more of just something he put in because people were theorizing that General Swanwick was Martian Manhunter and he thought that was cool so he put a cameo in Justice League to confirm that theory. I'm sure he wanted to give him an actual story in the sequel, but yeah it's just fan service. That's fine, but the bad part is that if anyone who isn't really a comic fan and doesn't know who Martian Manhunter watches the movie, they will be super confused.
I read that Zach originally had John Stuart Green Lantern at the end talking to Bruce and even shot the scene with him but WB understandably said not to because they have future plans for him and Zach found that reasonable enough and changed the scene to Martian Manhunter. Not sure if that Martha scene was shot before or after that decision though.
It was great but in my opinion it was still too long. Obviously there was a lot to do in it and beyond a certain point a movie has to be a certain length but my concentration was slipping by the time it got to the big fight at the end
I think it’s AWESOME they showed us the whole lot. They bundled it up and delivered it amazingly. I’m inline with you, this is a Directors Cut of the Snyder Cut so you do have to enjoy it with invested interest. Great video!
I hope with streaming these days, more movies become longer. The 2hr movie is for theatres, now that theatres are phasing out we should make 4hr movies a new norm
I loved the whole thing, and I never watched the theatrical release. That said, these are excellent criticisms, and I agree with every single one. I absolutely WOULD love a series set in the post-apocalyptic future, but it's gotta go a different route than, say, Injustice.
huge dc fan, massive martian manhunter fan, and whilst the snyder cut was great id still give it a 6/10, but considering id give the original 2/10 its aa huge improvent
This is a very fair review, but I feel like everyone is just ignoring how the plot of this cut of the movie makes no gosh dang sense. So Darkseid apparently came down to Earth thousands of years ago, got curbstomped, and then just forgot he left his cubes there until Superman screamed and woke them back up? And by this movie's depiction, he was defeated pretty easily in the past, so why were the Amazons so nervous about him returning? What was with the room with the murals depicting this whole event? Did Diana not know it happened until she read the murals? Why would nobody tell her about it if this was such an important even in Amazon history? It would have generally made MUCH more sense to leave it as Steppenwolf failing in the past and then returning to finish what he started. It would have left Darkseid feeling like a more intimidating threat and would have given the villain more characterization. How did the Motherboxes know the Antilife Equation was on Earth? Did Darkseid know this at one point and forgot that too? Was that why he went to Earth originally? Did he just lose track of where Earth was? Why was Stepp's vision just mirrored footage of Darkseid's arrival on Earth earlier in the movie with Wolfie boy pasted over it? Martian Manhunter impersonating Martha is not only dumb, but it takes what could have been a really great character scene for those two characters and completely undermines it for no reason at all. There are definitely scenes that are better in this movie, but I can't say it's better than the original release when there's so much nonsense and pointless scenes weighing it down.
I gotta disagree with alot of what you said here, Darkseid was Defeated by the Amazonians, Atlantians, All armies of man, Several Greek Gods, and A Green Lantern. The Amazons feared his return because the world is so divided, this is partially explained by the war between the Amazons and Atlantis but its also social commentary on how Humans hate each other. Supermans death awakens the motherboxes as it tells them earth has no current defender now. (Its not directly said but Steppenwolf says there are no Lanterns here which would mean Earth had Lanterns Protecting it Previously)
@@dyltack5349 I can believe that was the intention, but they failed to explain that over the course of a 4 hour movie. The visual language made proto-Darkseid (which they also didn't bother explaining) appear weak and barbaric, really not the threat he's supposed to be and appears to be later. This also doesn't explain what the mural was for and why Diana had to go look at it. It was a waste of screentime and its inclusion actually weakened the overall plot. It also doesn't explain why Darkseid or one of his minions never bothered coming to Earth before Superman appeared. Perhaps there was a Lantern there, but if that's the case they have to give us reason WHY he waited thousands of years. It also doesn't address the antilife equation, his connection to it, and how the motherbox knew it was on Earth. Basically my biggest complaint is that they spent 4 hours wasting time instead of actually explaining what was happening. I'm all for less exposition and more showing in film, but they couldn't even be bothered to do that.
I think calling it not a movie because it’s 4 hours long is a bit of an odd statement. Throughout the history of film, there have been movies of all lengths released, and the precedent that “a movie should be between 1hr30 and 2hrs30” was only really set in the 1980s. I do get that a shorter version could be useful for casual audiences, and I’ll say with complete confidence that if Zack Snyder has been able to complete the vision in 2017, that would have been the version, it would not have been this 4 hour epic we got this time around. But, the pacing does work, and you do get the impression that this is the raw version that Snyder wanted to release, if anything I think this might be a precedent for studios to be a little less apprehensive towards longer films going forward
"No spoilers, but if you've seen the movie, you know what I'm talking about!" I have no idea what you're talking about. 'It's at the end' really doesn't narrow it down.
People complain about the runtime yet will watch a whole season of something in one day. Also, to say that because of the runtime is not a movie, would be like saying Ben-hur is not a movie, Gone by the Wind, The Irishman, The Wolf of Wall Street (a lot of Scorssese movies), even Endgame, etc. and those should be shortened in time too. At most, it could be a three hour and a half movie, or three but that is losing a lot, since it is introducing three new characters, because we haven't seen the Aquaman movie before. Oh, and 12:15 that's not a bank robbery. #RestoreTheSnyderVerse ;)
While I agree that movies can be long, (personally I love the extended Lord of the Rings and rewatch them every year in one day) a movie has to earn it. Every moment needs to matter, whether you are introducing new characters or not. So much of what made this move feel long was just directorial choices, nothing that moved the plot. Watching Aquaman walk into water for 5 minutes was unnecessary. I think if it was 3 hours without all that stuff a lot less people would have that complaint, myself included. I'm also not a fan of the "people watch a whole season of a show in a day" argument. Yes they do but the difference is that each episode of a show should have a complete arc to where stopping after that episode shouldn't feel like we just wasted our time. If I stopped watching this movie at the end of part 1 I would've felt like nothing happened.
@@MaxIronsThird but the episodes on this movie...arent episodes. If you watch just episode 1, you get nothing from it. There is no conclusive end to that episode. You don't feel satisfied. But a TV show, that's different
@@hasthehighground8560 Yes, a four hour movie where you can press pause and watch later. And a 10 episode season you can watch in one go with not much a problem if you are interested in the story and characters.
I missed the "You won't let me live, you won't let me die" line from Superman. So much of both Justice League movies seemed like they were trying to ignore how scared and untrusting everyone was of Superman in the previous two movies but I felt that line at least acknowledged it a little bit.
I’d probably make a 3 hour version as the “Theatrical Cut” version of this and then release this 4 hour version as an Extended Cut. The only scenes I’m positive I’d cut are the villagers singing about Aquaman, the Iris West scene(she never appears or is mentioned again so a little pointless), and the whole Knightmare sequence. Just giving someone any ideas if you want to make that kind of version.
2:50 How to recommend a director's cut of either Guardians of the Galaxy movie to someone (or just me): Give them the extended Awesome Mixes first, and don't tell them about the scenes that go with the new songs. If they love the complete album, they'll love the director's cut And I'd keep the Barry/Iris scene. I think it's good to see Barry looking into other jobs
Completely agree with all of your criticisms. The Martian Manhunter scene is so weird. You literally just killed an alien warmonger who succeeded in killing you had Barry not reversed time, and suddenly this alien you've never seen before shows up... wouldn't you think it might possibly be associated with Steppenwolf or Darkseid? Instead, Bruce is like, "Hello, can I help you with something?"
Nando, I love your channel, and your vision on how to make movies better, but your big issue with the Snyder Cut is that it is 4 hours long? Come on. The individual parts of the Lord of the rings were around 3 hours and they were in the theaters. Also, a "major commitment" to watch a 4 hour movie. Most of us will be watching this from home (not only because it's not in the theaters, but because of COVID), with Streaming services, you can put it on hold. Have your own intermission halfway through, order in food, then continue on after. Just because it's 4 hours long, is NOT a deal breaker for this version of the movie.
Personally I’m not the biggest DC fan, some of the movies left a bad taste in my mouth, and I want to like DC. But I was surprised at how much I liked this movie
I have one note: The scene where wonder woman stops the bank robber is there for a plot purpose bc in the first act, it's all about the consequences of supes' death: after the death scene, it cuts to wonder woman stopping the bank, afterwards it cuts to themyscira and the amazons being attacked. This follows a natural thought process; supes is dead so who's replaced him? wonderwoman but if she's protecting earth who will protect themyscira in her place? No one, which causes the first box to get stolen, which is the inciting incident of the film. Steppenwolfe goes so far as to lay it out flat in their fight although I don't think it needed spelling out 2.5hrs later.. I guess what I'm saying is agree that there's dead weight scenes in this film but I'm gonna defend the bank scene for it's purpose in the first act of the story.
To be fair, Zack DID want to go all out and make Superman’s black suit more like it’s function in the comics, but he wasn’t able to film anything like that because WB told him not to. The closest he could get was color-correcting it to black but I’m just thankful for that.
@@keithwilliams1795 True, but that wasn’t entirely his wish. He wanted to do more but he used what he was given and got as close as he could. I still wish they did more too
"Manhunter is Golden age slang for detective" finally answers for me the longstanding question of what his name is supposed to imply. Thank you.
I had this idea that he could’ve been called, “Martian Manhunter”, because he was probably hunting down the Manhunter robots from Oa when they went nuts OR He was part of Oa’s Manhunter program for some reason.
All I can think of when I hear “manhunt” is Minecraft now lol
In spanish-speaking countries, the character was always called "Detective Marciano", which makes more sense than "Martian Manhunter".
I thought Manhunter was what Martians called their police officers
@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 that’s probably the in universe justification for such a silly/non fit name by today’s standards.
Wonder Woman: *is on screen for .2 seconds*
Movie:AAAAHAHAAAAAAAAHAAAAAHAAHAAAAAAAA
The woman hollering over the movie made me want to eat styrofoam. I'm so pissed they pissed on the WW theme like thag
After the 4th time that god aweful scream played, I was literally about to throw my food at the screen
Yeaa... That was annoying
It didn't really ruin the film for me. It was just something I could laugh at everytime WW was on screen
*LAMENTING INTENSIFIES*
Perhaps the real League was the Justice we made along the way.
Oddly, it makes more sense the other way around.
@@ZealStarMedia what?
@@kp1x
You must’ve replied to the wrong person.
@@kp1x
Your replying to the wrong person.
Making a 2 hour version of Zacks version?
Don’t tempt me bro.
👀
DO IT!
@Slippy Frog #releasethetheatricalsyndercutcut
I’d watch a cutdown 2 hour version, not really up for sitting through the current 4 hour one.
Synder himself said he made multiple versions from 2 hours to 4 hours+. So it’s possible :p
Aquaman: I'm out
Villagers: let us sing the songs of our people for several minutes
Over 10 solid minutes of Superman's Death yell
lol, I think the point is this small village views him as a God, protector, like being
"Several minutes"
They sang for like 1 minute and 5 seconds.
Don't know how anyone can turn that into "several minutes" ???
Love the movie. That shit was hella cringe haha
@@The80sWolf_ they sang in slow mo
"You can call me The Martha Manhunter."
"WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?"
"Eh, well it was my mother's name.
Manhunter. Anna Manhunter."
🤣
Martha Manhunter
No. Anna.
Martha was my mom.
Anna was my mother.
The one good thing about Joker: Jared Leto's performance reminds me of Tommy Wiseau.
Oh Hai Batman
It's not true, I did not hit her. I did not!
let me introduce you to the new joker.
AAAEEEEEEUUUUUUAAAAAAAAAA
I did not kill him, it's not true, it's bs, I did not kill him, I did not
Oh hi Bats
YOU'RE TEARING ME APART HARLEY
There is a 2 hour and 45 minute cut that flows the best. There would be a two hour cut if we had Cyborg's and Flash's movies before this movie.
And Aquaman's movie beforehand, too
Agreed. I enjoyed the movie but much of it would have been improved if we didn't have to focus on establishing every character's motivations and backstories.
I came to say the same. If we had Flash, Cyborg, WW and Aquaman movies before this, it would have been easy to cut 45 minutes. Cut another 20 minutes by having slomo at normal speed. Cut the ending. Then tighten a minute her and there and you have a 140 minute movie.
I like Cyborg being intertwined with this movie's plot, it's unique. Flash should've had a standalone though, his solo scenes feel like we're watching a completely different movie.
Cyborg being so tightly linked to the McGuffin makes it pretty hard to introduce him beforehand. I don't think the motherboxes are as big a deal to the DCverse as the infinity stones are to Marvel, so keeping them contained to a single movie makes the most sense.
The other characters don't have any reason whatsoever to be introduced in this movie.
In all honesty, I think the best way to handle Martian Manhunter's introduction here... is for him to give his actual name. Have him introduce himself as J'onn J'onzz, and at some point (not necessarily even in this movie), have someone else start calling him the 'Martian Manhunter' - especially if he gets a movie set in the '40s as suggested (which would, in fact, be awesome).
I honestly think making Manhunter responsible for Batman's Knightmares would've made his appearance worth it and the Knightmares actually make sense. Manhunter's powers including telepathy and empathic precognition, right? Well, put them together and you have Manhunter implanting the post-apocalyptic future into Bruce's dreams as warnings in both BvS and The Snyder Cut of what it is to come.
WB should have just let Snyder introduce Green Lantern. It makes more sense anyway.
@@DGenerationMC oh that would be really cool! Telepathy through time!
I was expecting him to say J'onn J'onzz
@@DGenerationMC That's what i'm saying. He was possibly implanting those visions in Bruce as he visited him.
Really liked how Cyborg was the heart of the story and had a big part in the finale, same as Flash. However, I definitely would want a more simplified version look for Cyborg with a bit more color. Steppenwolf and Cyborg have a Michael Bay's Transformers vibe to them.
Fr. Just shards of undulating metal. I liked Cyborg more in this one, but hot damn they will NOT let Ray Fischer ACT in these! Poor guy just has to deadpan all of his line deliveries and is forced to emote in like 2 total scenes. WB, Joss, and Zack did him dirty
@@grimbostink7607 You knoe Ray has to stand up for Zack too right?
I mean other than the teen titans cartoon back in the day adding blue. I think Cyborg is always just silver. Sometimes they add a bit of black. Also I know this is opinion, but I don't think every character needs to be colorful. Grey and silver don't necessarily have to be boring colors. The same way black doesn’t always mean evil.
@@byronsenior6499 I think adding some blue circuitry and some black parts for contrast would go a long way, especially since Zack Snyder really likes to make his movies look unsaturated and gray. Teen Titans has my favorite design for Cyborg since he also a distinctive silouhette. In this movie, I honestly think he looks better when you can only see his head and just the red light on his chest under his clothes.
@@grimbostink7607 If Cyborg's body was a bit more like Steppenwolf where the metal is shifting around out since he can't control it all the time, I think it would have been a cool effect.
The best way I’ve seen the Snyder Cut described is, the story of how it came to be is more interesting than the movie itself. Like if we got this movie the first time around, we could take it or leave it, but it feels so much bigger now due to the road to bringing it to life.
The Movie is a 6.5 or a 7. The entire DEAL with it and it's legacy and the surprise of it is like a 8.5
@@captainmarvelous7678 Yep
@@captainmarvelous7678 well said. Plus, the dedication to Autumn at the end made me realize. This is 100% Zack Snyder's. No more excuses about studios or deals. And, this artwork was ultimately made for his daughter. We fans are just along for the ride.
It makes me wonder how kids will watch it a few years from now, having not heard/lived everything leading up to it.
Lmao majority of the people I’ve seen praising this movie don’t even have any idea what happened BTS.
I think it’s time you lot just accepted that most think this movie is very good.
I read on twitter that Zack Snyder originally wanted Green Lantern John Stewart but WB didn't allow it. Snyder still wanted to include another POC hero in the movie so he had to go for Martian Manhunter instead.
Green is indeed a color
Poc is such a weird way to refer to black or brown people, native english speakers are funny.
@@Niop_Tres But both picks were black actors
@@oldmanlogan9616 POC stands for person of colour, it is more of a blanket term which includes asians
Don’t trust everything you read on Twitter. But if that’s true, John Stewart definitely would have been a better choice, considering how they were hyping up the lanterns in this cut
It’s quite literally my favorite DCEU Film right now
Well, the bar is really low at this point, with the exception of Wonder Woman and Shazam. I don’t think Joker (2019) counts.
Yea it’s my new favorite
If there wasn’t the Aries twist at the end, Wonder Woman could’ve been so much better
@@EvillClown11 I keep thinking this. Ares being in the film was a blunder.
I'm probably there with you. This and then Man of Steel are the only ones that I think are actually above average movies.
Wonder Woman - Does anything
Soundtrack - Ancient Lamentation plays
Imagine waking up from an apocalyptic nightmare then meeting an alien introduce himself as MARTIAN MAN HUNTER
Surprised Bruce wasn't scared
@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 like he hasn't seen worse
@@anmatrix5207 But him calling himself Manhunter would freak anyone out
@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 haha yeah
Watching this movie as its own without EVER having seen the 2017 Justice League was quite the experience
I'm curious to know the perspective of someone like you, all my friends have watched the 2017 one
@@daniellins4114 I haven't seen the theatrical cut of JL and have never felt the need to. I put off seeing BvS for YEARS until seeing it about a month ago in preparation for the Snyder Cut. Long story short, BvS (Ultimate Edition) was the most frustrating comic book film I've ever seen and The Snyder Cut of JL was pretty ok with a lot of small moments impressing me.
The fleshing out of Cyborg (along with Steppenwolf) was superb, Flash was actually entertaining, Batfleck earned has status as arguably the best iteration of that character (shame his movies weren't as good as Bale's though) and I was finally driven to unironically cheer for Superman. But the overly long music video scenes for Aquaman and Wonder Woman's theme might have given my ears PTSD.
I envy you haha
That’s how I did it and it ruled
this is what i did and i liked it
I like it when Flash grabbed the glizzy
Hey look a reply.
Wazzup
Barry the Glizzy Gladiator.
I was yelling at my tv GET THE GLIZZY
🅱️lizzy
The Norweigean people are actually Icelandic and are speaking Icelandic, also of the three women in the front at 4:54 the one on the right is Ágústa Eva who competed at eurovision in the early 2000’s
Another ester egg, she was also my kidnergarten teacher
Wow... that's pretty cool lol.
cool
Cool
Cool
I wish my kindergarten teacher was in a scene with Aquaman :/
I could not stop seeing HBO Ozymandias every time Alfred walked into frame.
Re: Act 3 big super hero moment: “If you’ve seen the movie, you know exactly what I’m talking about”... I actually don’t know what he’s talking about... is it Barry?
I also don’t know what he means. Could some smarter person weigh in?
Def Barry Allen
I was so confused too! I was so done by the that I couldn't remember it. When he then talked about Barry it suddenly clicked.
Also should Martian Manhunter help out in the world-ending conflict? Seems very cowardly. He shows up at the end, saying: "hey if something like this, but not this, happens again, I may stop by to help out a little."
Why should he have helped before? He's not human. He's hiding here illegally. If you were illegally living in another country would you be in a hurry to join their army if they got attacked?
Well this seems kinda Captain Marvel in the MCU, but applying logic, Martian Manhunter has precognition skills, maybe he was waiting for the creation of the proper JL
I like to believe he was actually busy keeping the military away from the Russian city so the Justice League could do their thing without interference
Either that or he didn't wanna help because there was alot of fire
@@captainmarvelous7678 If the attacker is gonna destroy the place I'm hiding out on yeah maybe.
The "world ending conflict" has not happend yet
Part of why you go to a superhero movie is because you like the characters and you want to watch them fight. Wonder Woman was literally blocking bullets with her gauntlets and standing a foot in front of those hostages saving their lives, was amazing. This scene showed how she's inspires others from the little girl asking her if she could be like her when she grows up
We've had a lot of superhero movies over the last decade where a character's Superhero Name was never even said out loud, and it was fine. If there was ever a character where that should've applied, it's Martian Manhunter. And they did it so on the nose. I didn't actually know that "manhunter" was a term for private detective, though. And now I want a solo movie of John Jones as P.I. that's a period piece that actually contextualizes that terminology.
I love how Nando's "Hot take" about the post apocalyptic ending is exactly how basically everyone feels
Yeah, probably the worst thing about the Snyder Cut. Could have cut it and lost nothing at all.
Nope 🤷
Nah I wanted it, I liked it, I think it added to the movie aswell as be a good tease for JL2
not me nor everybody I know feels the same way
I mean I liked the scene itself but I don't like it's placement in the movie
I think this may have been the most honest take on the Snyder Cut and I really appreciate it. Thank you Nando V Movies.
i absolutely hated the conversation with flash and batman about “saving just one”, because i feel barry is just so instinctively protective that he would just try to help in anyway
That mad flash look so weak.
I think the problem is that we got to see Superman learn his abilities and become a hero, but we didn't get to see that for Flash. So there's some people that want him to just be a hero and some people (like me) that would prefer to have seen a proper origin for him where he actually becomes a hero in his own right. Some moments in both versions of the Justice League movie show that they're trying to catch Flash up (ironically) to the rest of the heroes but he deserved to have that story in his own movie before the team up.
As a 4 hour movie, this movie competes with things like Wrestlemania and Wrestle Kingdom.
Or Avengers Endgame times a hundred
Never excepted a shout-out Wrestle Kingdom shoutout here
@@AB.a1.6 Shoutout to Zack Snyder for maintaining WRIST CONTROL.
Justice League over Wrestlemania any day. Wrestlemania is a chore to watch.
This was a great movie experience for me. The only issues i had the film was 1. The dialogue at certain parts of the film. 2. The constant use of the Wonder Woman's theme every time she had an action sequence on camera. 3. The children singing as Aquaman dives into the ocean. 4. The last scene with Martian Manhunter was not necessary.
7:14 I've seen the movie 3 times and I have NO IDEA what moment you're talking about here
SAME. WTH Nando? Just say: Okay Spoilers in 10 seconds. If you don’t want to be spoiled skip to _this time._
Yep. Landed here while searching comments to figure out what he's referencing.
Nando! What's the deal!?
@@bretthake7713 if you find out from another comment or something let me know
@@rob.carrillo the only thing I found was another person saying the same thing as you and a reply saying Barry Allen. This makes me think they're talking about him reversing time
Truth be told Nando, I'm not sure that a 2-hour version of this film would even be fully coherent(it would be definitely better than what we got in 2017 though). I think that there's just too much that they need to cover in this one film; establishing 2-3 new characters and a lot of background. However, I do think it could definitely be trimmed down to about 2.5 - 3 hours(a lot of scenes that were just a little too long and some scenes that could easily be removed altogether).
In this day and age TV shows are kinda doing better than movies
Cinemas are dying out, it's a sad thing but truthful
The Boys is a great example, you spend alot more time with the characters than in a simple 2 hour movie, Marvel did this thing where characters would show up in other movies so its basically a really long series
Well if you just stream line it and go for series you'll have a much better time
A 4 hour movie seems like alot when you put it that way
A 4 episode mini series you binge for 4 hours
Makes it seem alot less long
@@GMYSTERYICTNF People have been predicting the end of cinema for years, maybe even decades, and they’re always proven wrong. People enjoy the cinema experience and the industry has only gotten stronger with each year. So good look with that theory
What do you mean tv shows have been “doing better” than movies? If you mean they are more profitable, than that’s blatantly false. If you mean they are better at telling stories, that’s a subjective opinion.
At the end of the day, a four hour long movie IS different to a mini series. Movies are paced differently, and the episodes in a series have a self contained narrative, with a beginning, middle and end. Obviously they are interconnected but they have to also be watchable on their own. The same can’t be said about the Synder Cut, each part does not work on its own. It’s clearly meant to be watched in one sitting.
I watched it in one sitting and my first thought was “that was really good but it didn’t need to be 4 hours”
Having not seen either cut of this movie: strongly disagree that you can cut the Wonder Woman scene where she stops the terrorists at the bank. How many scenes are there, in either version, depict the heroes actually *saving* people? If we're cutting scenes with superheroes blocking bullets aimed at innocent people and tossing bombs into the sky at the last second, we're cutting what makes them superheroes in the first place.
Anyway, keep up the interesting content!
It’s SO simple. make Flashpoint. When it’s done, change everything that didn’t work. Keep everything that did, and then just keep the DCEU going forever
That HAS to be what the Flash solo movie is going to be about. They even got Micheal Keaton Batman!
Yeah, watch the film theory vid, he honestly makes me excited for the flash film.
My primary takeaway is this: I want a four hour Guardians cut.
Release the #NandoCut
5:01 and 7:01 HIGHLY disagree. They shot the arrow to warn Diana and send her to the ruins where the history of what happened in the past, resided. It was crucial to her character to introduce the information necessary for the rest of the movie.
Aquaman scene at 7:01 was necessary to show the chip on his shoulder, that would eventually play out in the Aquaman movie. In this Justice League movie, it was to show his acceptance of his Atlantean culture and work with it against a single cause.
these likely make the most sense in retrospect. 5:01 doesnt need to be so long, and really this is only really necessary if it pays off. With this being the end of all of this story, it really doesnt matter. 7:01 doesnt matter because the theatrical cut and aquaman adequately convey that issue without needing to force it into the justice league movie.
if this had all been done well, we could have had man of steel, a batman movie that introduces this batman and hints at the coming confict with superman. Wonder Woman that introduces Diana, and parts of atlantis. BvS, Flash movie that introduces cyborg, and THEN Justice league. The fact they thought they could make this work in 3 steps was insane and ultimately pointless.
It's a very important point, but in a standard movie the arrow scene would have been 20-30 seconds long, tops. It was super drawn out, like so many other things that didn't need to be.
@@rui5421 I think that your idea for small team ups and introductions works great. Especially since many don't want every single character to need their own movie. (I personally would rather get more small stories than few big stories, but your suggestion is exactly what I think works as well.)
THANK YOU FOR NOT BEING AFRAID TO SPEAK YOUR MIND....literally every other youtuber who covered this was scared of backlash
Can't wait until the flash movie, when he meets Iris for the first time again.
If you play all the SLOMO scenes in this movie at regular speed it would be 45 min long.
Hey, they gotta justify that four hour runtime somehow.
That would be a really interesting cut.
25
I would love to see a cut where the slowmo is spread up to normal speed.
no
i believe Martian Manhunter didn't fit in, and all this footage that didn't fit, but I just viewed it as Snyder's bonus clips. He put all of the footage on the table, probably knowing he won't get this chance again. That's the perspective I get from this.
Still a good to great film!
I saw in a interview from ZS where he said that originally he didn’t plan for a Martian Manhunter appearance, the epilogue was supposed to end with the appearance of green lantern warning batman. Warner bros didn’t want him to use Green lantern so he had to pick another hero who could fit the idea of extraterrestrial help against Darkseid. That’s probably why the scene where MMH incarnate Martha Kent feels wrong, i speculate that it was supposed to be just a regular Martha+Loïs emotionnal scene at first but he changed things to make the appearance of MMH consistent.
This is exactly how I felt about the movie as well. I would only add the pet cemetery bit when Superman attacks. Not the buildup to it but just the one line the Flash says. It's only a couple seconds, it's hilarious and if you someone doesn't get the joke it's done already so they shouldn't care. If that was tossed in there I would be happy too. Great vid.
It’s an improvement over the theatrical cut (save for a handful of moments), as the characters have more dignified personalities and Cyborg gets his character arc back. However, judged solely on its own merits, I think it’s just fine. It’s watchable enough and has solid acting and cinematography, but the story doesn’t have much to write home about.
My #1 gripe is the warrior scream that they played EVERY SECOND that wonder woman was on screen
Martian Manhunter, the Swiss Army knife of superheroes, was looking at things from afar and then saying thanks afterwards instead of........joining them??? Imagine Captain Marvel at the end of Infinity War being like “Oh I wasn’t far into space, I was getting a latte. Thanks for trying tho. You guys looked great.”
I genuinely think he was scared of revealing his identity because humanity is so hateful and racist.
And also probably doing Military Jobs or Trying to not Make america well Have control on superman
I saw this movie in black and white and so I didn't even know that Supes was in the black suit till now. Geeze, they really just thought we'd all fan-swoon at that. Missed the mark by a long shot.
Idk if anyone else felt this way, but the manhunter scene, especially where he says his name, it feels to me at lot like the scene in Star Trek: Into Darkness where Khan goes "my name... is khan" and then we the audience are supposed to go like oooOOOOooh and the characters just stand there like "ok cool is that supposed to mean something"
I couldn't have reviewed this video better myself. Perfect amount of harshness on the Martian Manhunter thing, and I love that character!! I'm so hyped I'm avout to go sign up for curiosity stream and then head to patreon lol
I think the volko scene is necessary to explain why Arthur goes to Atlantis a place he hates
It's used liked that, that doesn't make it "necessary".
It’s necessary for some of us.
Definitely necessary.
@@tipcherubin7163 @shaun richards The explanation being necessary doesn't make that scene necessary.
7:14
So pretty sure I know what scene Nando is talking about also Spoilers
It's the scene where Barry goes faster then the speed of light to save everyone.
Could be. I don't know what scene Nando's talking about either, but that's a likely candidate.
@@Roykirk Yeah it's just a theory,a film theory
It is obvioulsy that one. I am surprised how many people are not getting it, haha.
"I dont want to spoil this really cool thing happening in the finale" keeps on talking about the last 15 minutes that come after that scene lol
I feel like people still have hype goggles with this movie.
Don't get me wrong, I definently think it's better than the Joshtice League, but it suffers from some of the same problems the Joshtice League does. For example, StepenWolf, while better than in the Joshtice League, is still pretty bad, he went from Malekith do...something better than Malekith. And that's without mentioning the more...personally bad stuff, like Snyder's directorial style, which is being praised in this while hated in Snyder's other movies by the same people.
Again, I definently think it's better than Joshtice League, and as Nando said, even though the whole Twitter thing and fans was...weird to say the least, I am happy for Zack. I just believe people aren't seeing it's flaws because of all the hype it had and how it delivered on being better than the Joshtice League.
As for the duration thing...I mean, i definently think a Snyder Cut - Cut would be awesome, but as someone who watches every Thursday 3-5 hour DnD show...yeah, I don't mind that much.
It has flaws but I feel as though people are getting that confused with just nitpicks and personal likes and dislikes. A movie can objectively have a flaw but those who pick at them suddenly always diverge from what may make the movie flawed as whole, and go more so into what makes it flawed for them. Like how none of these characters could be to ur exact liking of how they are in the comics. Or the directing style. These all seem like personal nitpicks that I’m not saying u shouldn’t have, but I wouldn’t say they should make the film bad as a whole for the people who liked. The people saying it’s a great film are either people who had been wanting this for a long time or those who genuinely weren’t expecting much from it. I’m one of those people. So yea I see your point, but hype goggles or not, they liked what they saw and that should be more than enough. No one is saying that the film doesn’t have flaws.
Jsyk the director of Justice League 2017 was Joss Whedon, so nando is saying Josstice
@@darkfire2942 A lot of people are, unfortunetly. About the other thing, of course, personal dislikings are different than flaws, that's why I separated my Steppenwolf example from Zack's direction style.
I mean I expected to fucking despise the movie, as i did the original, but i was genuinely surprised, I still dislike a few parts (Martian Manhunter didn't need to be there) but I genuinely think it's a way better experience than the Josstice league.
The 4 hour runtime was good for me, really good, I've watched the LotR movies in a day, this is child's play
I gave the original a 2/10 this was a solid 7.5/10
@@darkfire2942 but plenty of people ARE saying or inferring that the film is a flawless masterpiece.
How about a video on Lex Luther isn’t Lex Luther in the DCEU?
He the son and frankly he was interesting. I enjoyed his character and accepted it wasn’t a traditional copy paste of boring old Lex like we’ve had for the last 40 years.
@@sullivandmitry1416 that's what I've been telling people for ever and they always come to the same conclusion " I didn't know that.. that makes me like him more"
Lex LuthOr
To be honest, I don't think the "parts" are meant as chapters, but meant as pause time, like interludes at the opera: but instead of one interlude between two sections, we had like 5 interludes between the 6 parts.
There’s so much restraint coming from this man, trying to express that it isnt a great movie, but also trying to avoid upsetting the mega fans of this cut XD
I was gonna say, he sounds so frustrated the whole time he's trying to speak about the movie haha. Synder's toxic mega fans are scary!
So he wants to make money without being true to himself, AKA he's a sell-out, okay.
It's been a couple of years since Nando's content has taken a downturn really bad.
@@AdellRedwinters
The toxic mega fans that the Snyder haters made up as something to use as a trashing tool. Exactly like SJW's needs their racists, or whatever they find in their political opponents.
@@The80sWolf_ lol - says one of the toxic megafans.
I definitely like this movie, but I agree with Nando that there should be a perfect version of this movie, one that manages to depict Superman in a heroic light (like the Whedon version) and give us amazing moments like “Faster than light”.
10:32 I don't agree with that point. That scene had people dying, and then Flash and Batman stepped back to say a couple jokes. Granted Steppenwolf wasn't killing anyone in Snyder's version, but the fact that they went straight in and saved people instead of sitting back and joking about the situation is much better.
If there was a sixth not nice thing I’d say, Superman did not need to come back to life in this movie. I get that he’s supposed to be their Godzilla threshold against Steppenwolf, but he never really seemed all that tough and they already had three heavy hitters anyway. So when Superman shows up to clobber Steppenwolf, it feels less like the tables have turned and more just another character to beat the crap out of him. In fact, Supes got some major plot armor in that scene because Steppenwolf’s ax should’ve cut him in half. Superman’s invulnerability has never been that strong before. But even then, it felt like Superman returning to life required its own film. Having him return with like 30 or so minutes left felt like a waste of a good idea.
What if theres not another JL? I think he made the choices he did incase theres not another one
In other NandoVMovies videos, he says pretty much what you've said. Although in his Justice League rewrite (before the Snyder Cut was released), he had a very different story that would have worked much better as a sort of team-up prequel to the whole Steppenwolf arrival and allowed the DCEU to properly build up to it.
Can we talk about how the Martian Martha scene took away Batman agency in bringing Lois to the Superman fight, meaning that Bruce ignored the advice from future self?
He never saved Lois and the ending Wastland scene means nothing, because we se the future created by ignoring the advice, like in this one.
Also, I want a Wasteland Batman film
Alright. Time for me to make that edit. See you all in a couple months
I'm not a Snyder fan by any means, but most of the stuff before the dream sequence crap at the end makes for a pretty damn good movie. If it was trimmed down to 3 hours, I'd love it.
wtf
I agree the whole destruction stuff just doesn't work for me but everything else was great!
my family watched this straight with no breaks at all. guess we got used to it from binge watching kdramas, which are usually 1hr per ep 😂
I don't have much of an issue with the black suit because the first thing Superman does with it, is go straight to space to recharge (fulfilling in the main intended purpose for it being in the black color). If that scene was not there and he immediately went for Steppenwolf, then it would be just a color change with no other purpose to suggest in the "show not tell category".
I agree that ZSJL can be edited down from 4 hours. Take out the epilogue, some of the indulgent character scenes (like the Aquaman one you mentioned) and the slow mo scenes, I do believe we could have gotten around a coherent 3 hour theatrical cut of this movie even in 2017.
I personally enjoyed watching it and at least felt there was a purpose/through-line from MoS, BvS Ultimate and now with ZSJL to how characters were portrayed. It made sense to me.
I think the first half of the film can be trimmed down. There were a lot of dull spots, the second half of the movie was solid and keeps my attention pretty well.
One thing I really liked is how animalistic stephenwolf is. He looks like a shark/bull when fighting and that was amazing
This movie never existed. I recall reading a story saying it was "unwatchable". Whatever this movie would've been it has changed through time, hindsight and changing sensibilities. It's definitely nothing like the movie that would've come out if Zack had made it originally. I think he still indulges some of his worst instincts. Like excessive slo mo and overlong scenes. Given that he made this without the studio because it was going to streaming you can be sure they would've involved themselves much more in a cut that would have gone to theatres.
I believe the unwatchable comment was referring to the fact the cut was unfinished and unedited back when Snyder made that comment, that is what the money to make it was spent on, I think the only reshoots were the final scenes
97 percent of the movie was shot before the release of the theatrical version. U do know that this version is the compromise between him and the studio story wise before whendon came with his reshoots
Martian man hunter at the end was supposed to be Green Lantern, it Warner Brothers begged Zack Snyder to not use green lantern so instead he just used Martian Manhunter
17:50 can’t believe you’re doing a director’s cut (the Nando Cut, if you will) of this video!
Your 2 second pitch for a 40s noir Martian Manhunter is everything I need
The black suit is still the regeneration suit. That’s why he immediately flies up towards the sun after putting it on so he can absorb sunlight before going to join the others against Steppenwolf. Snyder often visually explains things to the audience rather than explaining through dialogue.
Yep
You can easily watch it in 2 sittings, and the movie is very cohesive this way.
Its definitely not
I’m glad they improved the flash and cyborg scenes, but Jesus Christ, the flash suit is gonna kill me
Also I don't get why Superman took the black suit. He wasn't a bad guy in this movie and there was no other reasoning behind him taking it. He just decides he wants the black suit this time
@@tuffdude7795 you always wear the same clothes? Lol. But seriously though the Black suit helps him absorb radiation better than the regular one.
@@captainmarvelous7678 That wasn't explained at all in the movie unless I missed it
@@tuffdude7795 in the comics he wears the black suit when hes first resurrected i heard
@@tuffdude7795 zack painted it post production.
This is the first review where I’ve agreed with EVERYTHING said! Specifically I don’t get the love fest for Barry Allen and shoehorning in Martian Manhunter
Here is my take on the black suit : if you want to make a black and white version, don't make a COLOR CHANGE that important to your movie
I completely agree about the "different version of something else that doesn't actually exist" feeling. I get that same feeling watching Pacific Rim, like my brain keeps trying to fill-in the voltron-esque anime series that I would have loved as a kid so much that I almost felt nostalgia watching it the first time.
I swear to christ how we are still acting that a 4hr movie is "too long" and "too big of a committment" I just don't understand given our current day culture's obsession with binging watching.
Binge watching doesn't apply to everyone. A lot of people dont have the time or desire to sit through 4 hrs straight of movie.
Movies and TV series are two different things. Movies are intended to be watched all at once, while series are expected to be watched one episode at a time.
@@frick_____you how does that account for the modern model of binge watching? Or the fact that a lot of modern shows are written and filmed in a way where it’s done as a 10-13hr movie instead of 10-13 individual episodes?
@@WinningProduction420 I’m aware of that but a large amount of people do binge watch these days.
While JL definitely has elements it could cut out, I don't disagree with your overall sentiment. At the same time though, I personally treat my own time as a commodity, and if a movie seems too long for me I'll have to skip, unless I make the time for it like JL
All I gotta say is that I have passed out trying to watch The lord of the rings on 4 different occasions and it only took me one time to finish the Snyder cut of the Justice league.
about martian manhunter: do you think he's impersonating a general because of the CW Supergirl version?
No. What really happened is it's more of just something he put in because people were theorizing that General Swanwick was Martian Manhunter and he thought that was cool so he put a cameo in Justice League to confirm that theory. I'm sure he wanted to give him an actual story in the sequel, but yeah it's just fan service. That's fine, but the bad part is that if anyone who isn't really a comic fan and doesn't know who Martian Manhunter watches the movie, they will be super confused.
I read that Zach originally had John Stuart Green Lantern at the end talking to Bruce and even shot the scene with him but WB understandably said not to because they have future plans for him and Zach found that reasonable enough and changed the scene to Martian Manhunter. Not sure if that Martha scene was shot before or after that decision though.
Why does it have to be 2 hours? It can be 3 hours. Endgame was 3 hours and it was great.
It was great but in my opinion it was still too long. Obviously there was a lot to do in it and beyond a certain point a movie has to be a certain length but my concentration was slipping by the time it got to the big fight at the end
@@ericlayton8888 While I love along movie but didn't care for Endgame.
@@johnstovall7503 yeah, I actually preferred Infinity War to Endgame. Both were great, but I liked Infinity War's pacing a bit better.
I think it’s AWESOME they showed us the whole lot. They bundled it up and delivered it amazingly. I’m inline with you, this is a Directors Cut of the Snyder Cut so you do have to enjoy it with invested interest. Great video!
I hope with streaming these days, more movies become longer. The 2hr movie is for theatres, now that theatres are phasing out we should make 4hr movies a new norm
I loved the whole thing, and I never watched the theatrical release.
That said, these are excellent criticisms, and I agree with every single one.
I absolutely WOULD love a series set in the post-apocalyptic future, but it's gotta go a different route than, say, Injustice.
huge dc fan, massive martian manhunter fan, and whilst the snyder cut was great id still give it a 6/10, but considering id give the original 2/10 its aa huge improvent
Flash using the speed force tho 🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯 fucking legendary
This is a very fair review, but I feel like everyone is just ignoring how the plot of this cut of the movie makes no gosh dang sense. So Darkseid apparently came down to Earth thousands of years ago, got curbstomped, and then just forgot he left his cubes there until Superman screamed and woke them back up? And by this movie's depiction, he was defeated pretty easily in the past, so why were the Amazons so nervous about him returning? What was with the room with the murals depicting this whole event? Did Diana not know it happened until she read the murals? Why would nobody tell her about it if this was such an important even in Amazon history?
It would have generally made MUCH more sense to leave it as Steppenwolf failing in the past and then returning to finish what he started. It would have left Darkseid feeling like a more intimidating threat and would have given the villain more characterization.
How did the Motherboxes know the Antilife Equation was on Earth? Did Darkseid know this at one point and forgot that too? Was that why he went to Earth originally? Did he just lose track of where Earth was? Why was Stepp's vision just mirrored footage of Darkseid's arrival on Earth earlier in the movie with Wolfie boy pasted over it?
Martian Manhunter impersonating Martha is not only dumb, but it takes what could have been a really great character scene for those two characters and completely undermines it for no reason at all.
There are definitely scenes that are better in this movie, but I can't say it's better than the original release when there's so much nonsense and pointless scenes weighing it down.
Agreed, and it's not like the runtime justifies leaving out some plot points. Biggest offense of this movie imo.
I gotta disagree with alot of what you said here, Darkseid was Defeated by the Amazonians, Atlantians, All armies of man, Several Greek Gods, and A Green Lantern. The Amazons feared his return because the world is so divided, this is partially explained by the war between the Amazons and Atlantis but its also social commentary on how Humans hate each other. Supermans death awakens the motherboxes as it tells them earth has no current defender now. (Its not directly said but Steppenwolf says there are no Lanterns here which would mean Earth had Lanterns Protecting it Previously)
@@dyltack5349 I can believe that was the intention, but they failed to explain that over the course of a 4 hour movie. The visual language made proto-Darkseid (which they also didn't bother explaining) appear weak and barbaric, really not the threat he's supposed to be and appears to be later. This also doesn't explain what the mural was for and why Diana had to go look at it. It was a waste of screentime and its inclusion actually weakened the overall plot. It also doesn't explain why Darkseid or one of his minions never bothered coming to Earth before Superman appeared. Perhaps there was a Lantern there, but if that's the case they have to give us reason WHY he waited thousands of years. It also doesn't address the antilife equation, his connection to it, and how the motherbox knew it was on Earth.
Basically my biggest complaint is that they spent 4 hours wasting time instead of actually explaining what was happening. I'm all for less exposition and more showing in film, but they couldn't even be bothered to do that.
4:54 Dude, those are not Norwegian people, they're probably Icelandic. Can confirm as a Norwegian myself.
The subtitles even say that they are singing Icelandic
Well Martian Manhunter was supposed to be Green Lanterns Hal Jordan and John Stewart
I think calling it not a movie because it’s 4 hours long is a bit of an odd statement. Throughout the history of film, there have been movies of all lengths released, and the precedent that “a movie should be between 1hr30 and 2hrs30” was only really set in the 1980s.
I do get that a shorter version could be useful for casual audiences, and I’ll say with complete confidence that if Zack Snyder has been able to complete the vision in 2017, that would have been the version, it would not have been this 4 hour epic we got this time around.
But, the pacing does work, and you do get the impression that this is the raw version that Snyder wanted to release, if anything I think this might be a precedent for studios to be a little less apprehensive towards longer films going forward
Exactly.
"No spoilers, but if you've seen the movie, you know what I'm talking about!"
I have no idea what you're talking about. 'It's at the end' really doesn't narrow it down.
A 2.5hr cut of the Snyder cut with the "save one" and "Alfred/Bruce chat" added in. There you go.
People complain about the runtime yet will watch a whole season of something in one day.
Also, to say that because of the runtime is not a movie, would be like saying Ben-hur is not a movie, Gone by the Wind, The Irishman, The Wolf of Wall Street (a lot of Scorssese movies), even Endgame, etc. and those should be shortened in time too.
At most, it could be a three hour and a half movie, or three but that is losing a lot, since it is introducing three new characters, because we haven't seen the Aquaman movie before.
Oh, and 12:15 that's not a bank robbery.
#RestoreTheSnyderVerse ;)
While I agree that movies can be long, (personally I love the extended Lord of the Rings and rewatch them every year in one day) a movie has to earn it. Every moment needs to matter, whether you are introducing new characters or not. So much of what made this move feel long was just directorial choices, nothing that moved the plot. Watching Aquaman walk into water for 5 minutes was unnecessary. I think if it was 3 hours without all that stuff a lot less people would have that complaint, myself included. I'm also not a fan of the "people watch a whole season of a show in a day" argument. Yes they do but the difference is that each episode of a show should have a complete arc to where stopping after that episode shouldn't feel like we just wasted our time. If I stopped watching this movie at the end of part 1 I would've felt like nothing happened.
Because watching a 4 hour movie in one sitting is different than watching multiple episodes of tv
@@hasthehighground8560 Guess what, you have a pause button and even title cards separating the "episodes"
@@MaxIronsThird but the episodes on this movie...arent episodes. If you watch just episode 1, you get nothing from it. There is no conclusive end to that episode. You don't feel satisfied. But a TV show, that's different
@@hasthehighground8560 Yes, a four hour movie where you can press pause and watch later. And a 10 episode season you can watch in one go with not much a problem if you are interested in the story and characters.
I missed the "You won't let me live, you won't let me die" line from Superman. So much of both Justice League movies seemed like they were trying to ignore how scared and untrusting everyone was of Superman in the previous two movies but I felt that line at least acknowledged it a little bit.
I’d probably make a 3 hour version as the “Theatrical Cut” version of this and then release this 4 hour version as an Extended Cut.
The only scenes I’m positive I’d cut are the villagers singing about Aquaman, the Iris West scene(she never appears or is mentioned again so a little pointless), and the whole Knightmare sequence.
Just giving someone any ideas if you want to make that kind of version.
Diana having already been taught as a child about Darkseid and the motherboxes would cut that temple scene out as well.
@@keithwilliams1795 yeah that could work. Or trimmed instead and have that painting of Darkseid be the only thing she sees?
I'm not sure why the scene with Aquamen saving a boat was even in the original movie, but it could be really trimmed down, if not removed
Cutting out two of the best scenes in the movie... oh man
Personally I’d rather have it split into 2 parts since the tunnel battle ends at the 2 hour mark and would be a good ending to part 1.
2:50 How to recommend a director's cut of either Guardians of the Galaxy movie to someone (or just me):
Give them the extended Awesome Mixes first, and don't tell them about the scenes that go with the new songs. If they love the complete album, they'll love the director's cut
And I'd keep the Barry/Iris scene. I think it's good to see Barry looking into other jobs
This film had more endings then Return of the King.
Also, the CGI is OK, I like the over the top cartoony design, they look good.
Completely agree with all of your criticisms. The Martian Manhunter scene is so weird. You literally just killed an alien warmonger who succeeded in killing you had Barry not reversed time, and suddenly this alien you've never seen before shows up... wouldn't you think it might possibly be associated with Steppenwolf or Darkseid? Instead, Bruce is like, "Hello, can I help you with something?"
Nando, I love your channel, and your vision on how to make movies better, but your big issue with the Snyder Cut is that it is 4 hours long? Come on.
The individual parts of the Lord of the rings were around 3 hours and they were in the theaters. Also, a "major commitment" to watch a 4 hour movie. Most of us will be watching this from home (not only because it's not in the theaters, but because of COVID), with Streaming services, you can put it on hold. Have your own intermission halfway through, order in food, then continue on after.
Just because it's 4 hours long, is NOT a deal breaker for this version of the movie.
I don't understand how some people can bear more than six hours of school dayly during so many years, but can't watch four hours of a nice movie.
Personally I’m not the biggest DC fan, some of the movies left a bad taste in my mouth, and I want to like DC. But I was surprised at how much I liked this movie
I have one note: The scene where wonder woman stops the bank robber is there for a plot purpose bc in the first act, it's all about the consequences of supes' death: after the death scene, it cuts to wonder woman stopping the bank, afterwards it cuts to themyscira and the amazons being attacked. This follows a natural thought process; supes is dead so who's replaced him? wonderwoman but if she's protecting earth who will protect themyscira in her place? No one, which causes the first box to get stolen, which is the inciting incident of the film. Steppenwolfe goes so far as to lay it out flat in their fight although I don't think it needed spelling out 2.5hrs later.. I guess what I'm saying is agree that there's dead weight scenes in this film but I'm gonna defend the bank scene for it's purpose in the first act of the story.
To be fair, Zack DID want to go all out and make Superman’s black suit more like it’s function in the comics, but he wasn’t able to film anything like that because WB told him not to. The closest he could get was color-correcting it to black but I’m just thankful for that.
Then it's just a superficial change that means nothing. It's just black version of his suit that adds nothing to the story.
@@keithwilliams1795 True, but that wasn’t entirely his wish. He wanted to do more but he used what he was given and got as close as he could. I still wish they did more too
@@keithwilliams1795 It doesn’t hurt the story though, and it will please fans of the comics so I don’t see a problem.
yeah i'm also looking forward for someone to recut this into a manageable length lmao