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Did Painting Warhammer in the 90's SUCK?
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- Опубликовано: 15 авг 2024
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0:00 Intro
0:51 Paint Older Than Most of You
2:16 A Model Equally as Ancient
3:10 I'm Scared to Use this Paint...
6:48 This Train is Off the Tracks!
8:40 Weird Time Travel Story
9:28 Clown Fiesta~
10:37 Hallucinogenic Paint???
12:07 WTF Was this all For?
12:37 Outro & Outtakes
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90's painter and former GW staff painter here. This was a fun trip down memory lane. However, a few things to mention:
1. Most of those paints have lost a lot of opacity due to age. That said it was hit or miss but if you knew which paints covered back then, you kept track of them as good base coats, and boy did they coat over black with no problem. For instance, the yellowish base green highlight you couldn't dry brush was better with Bilious Green, the choice most sought after by everyone. Also, the washes/inks back then are still some of the best ever produced (when still fresh). They ran into cracks, tinted slightly, and needed no water/medium.
2. A lot of the cartoonish paint jobs back then weren't because people were really not "aware" of grim paint jobs. It was because the photography was really bad and would never pick up a lot of nuanced color shifts in dark colors combined with the fact that the model sculpts were still based on a real "beer and pretzels" feel to the game developed by the English writers.
3. Airbrushing wasn't used much back then mainly because people really didn't dedicate as much $$$ into painting set ups like they do today. There were painting pros who put in countless days/weeks into painting and really took it as a challenge to do it all by hand/brush...but then there was a huge gap to the average painter that was looking for quick dry brush and play. Today, there's really a whole industry of miniature painting that has very little to do with the gaming aspect. I remember the first US Golden Demon contests...we had like 20 entries total :P.
Awesome videos as always man and you bring a great positive vibe to all you do!
I never considered that the photography would push the paint job, but it totally makes sense. I just tried to do what Mike McVey said, and then suddenly in the late 90's it wasn't cool anymore. My brother had an old eldar army (long since stripped) we called "Day-glow Craftworld" because they were so bright. So that's saying something!
I think for total 90s nostalgia you need to paint the rim of the base green as well 😉
I felt a little sad when he blacked it…
Goblin Green all the way.
Yeeee boy!
I was stunned when he said nostalgia and while painting the rim black, it must be intentional lmao
Ahhh you beat me to it. Lol
One thing that immediately comes to mind is 90's GW telling you to drybrush everything in their painting tutorials even though the minis in the tutorial clearly weren't dry-brushed.
Figuring out how GW actually painted their minis was so frustrating with no online tutorials and no one to ask.
Even today they tell you sht about how they do the models in their own paint tutorials. Ninjon made a video about that. The Boxart Models are painted way more complicated than their 3-5 Step manuals.
You had to shell out for an additional book "How To Paint Citadel Miniatures" by Rick Priestly.
I could never crack the code, and the written descriptions even in their painting guides from the time left a lot to the imagination. I realize now that I was missing even the foundational knowledge of painting and color theory that the best painters either internalized naturally from experience, or were learned from places like art schools. As a result, I never thinned my paints, never protected the brush ferrules from paint, didn't clean brushes well, and had no concept of building up layers by considering which order of colors would best produce that effect. As a result most of my models look like the thickly painted, shapeless monstrosities that make up so many of the memes used by miniature painters to refer to that time.
I started painting in about 93/94 using only the White Dwarf guides as help. I had no idea about thinning the paint and I dry brushed everything. Furthermore, I just had one brush LMAO. Needless to say my results were dreadful.
You weren't supposed to paint with just the colours in the box. In typical GW fashion they used the box to sell you colours that you wouldn't use and made sure you would have to buy other sets or extra paints to get the ones you were missing.
Yeah, I thought the same thing. Lol
Yes, all of the later sets pretty much assumed you had the basic set. The Ork & Eldar set would be an add on to those basic colors.
at this period military plastic modelism was a thing kid have for cheap everywhere
i made lot of warplanes and tank before own warhammer figurine, so the first i painted were with my big collection of "revell pot", i only bought special color to GW like gold/silver/red/orange which arent typically of military camo lol :D
Or to buy the rest of the paint sets like I did back then. Lol
The paints have always been available separately so no it wasn’t just a marketing ploy to make you buy colours you didn’t need.
I started painting GW models in 1996. This is a fairly accurate trip down memory lane. A few thoughts/memories:
1) The lack of colors and crappy bottles Citadel used is what drove me to craft paints, which were cheaper and came in many more colors. I still have and use some to this day. They work well if you know how to manipulate them... and I got a lot of practice.
2) Everyone was big on black-lining. Everything needed to be blacklined. Learning to do it right helped me with my fine brush control.
3) Converting metal minis sucked. Painting them was a breeze. Stripping paint from them is even easier.
4) Your observation about using a light colored primer was spot-on. I still basecoat all my Eldar in white, even though they're Ulthwé, just so the colors will pop.
5) Bases were simple, usually flocked. I still use flock so my new Eldar will match the old.
Loved the video!
I was into miniature painting as a teenager in the 90s but stopped. I started again a few months ago. First thing I did was to go to the local GW shop and ask where the Bretonnians were 😳 😪...
Outch I feel your pain
I did something similar, but I started back up a few years ago. The single biggest thing that has changed is videos like this one.
Long gone are the days of reading, scrutinizing, puzzling over, analyzing, rereading, and rereading again some vague instructions written in some pamphlets or modelling magazine and such in order to learn techniques. Now there are a thousand creative people you can learn from right here. Everything from fundamentals to advanced techniques. By watching tutorials on youtube, you'll almost certainly find that you will lean and progress more in like six months than you did the whole time you where struggling in the 90s.
There is a danger though. It's easy to fall into a trap of watching too many tutorial videos on YT instead of actually doing things.
The second biggest thing? You can actually get things now. Used to be that if you couldn't find a certain supply or tool in your local hobby and game stores, you probably didn't even know it existed. Even if you did know it existed, you probably couldn't get it.
@@ColonelSandersLite Spot on! As a kid in 90s I simply couldn't afford Citadel paints, so I got other, cheaper ones, and then only the basic colors. I mixed all skin tones from white, yellow and red for example. Those were the days...
I won contests in the 90s and started again after almost 25 years a few months back. This is my go-to hobby to calm my head down now. Phones off, audiobook on, go. Love it.
The old Jes Goodwin models are so good they still use the sculpts today! especially for the Eldar character range. Another direction you can go is Juan Diaz's daemons, such as the daemonettes or the demon prince on foot model. These are extremely well sculpted and detailed that I'm really not sure why they don't sell them.
In a recent interview he said that GW was (is) too puritan. So probably his daemonettes at some point were too naked to be acceptable.
That Eldar warlock is a legendary sculpt.
@@andresperedo1275 Most likely, I remember a few years back I went to go to the gw website one day and it came but blocked under BT's content block scheme under 'adult interest'.
@@NB-uy4wl I has it.
@@basstedson Well, it's a classic in English speaking countries: boobs = bad ; dead and gore = OK
I don't know, for the people from outside it always feels weird, and it is even weirder that nowadays we have to accept that view in all this big online platforms.
But well, this is not the place to discuss it I guess :D
I had that Ork and Eldar paint set! Tin bitz was useless back then as well.
It was however a rusty, metallic brown, not a dark silver like Jon assumed!
@@anotherzingbo My pot was more like some weird crackle paste.
I recently got an old collection of citadel paints from a facebook group and the tin bitz pot was in perfect condition. Silky smooth. I was expecting it to be one of the worst, along with skull white, but I was genuinely shocked. When it works as it should the colour is gorgeous.
God I miss Tin bitz. The best metallic of the entire line. An orc player's best friend
Rough Iron from Army Painter is an awesome alternative to Tin Bitz.
I was painting in the 90s, it may have been a simpler time, but it was awesome! 😆
I miss bags of green "flock" lol
@@Nethezbet there was something special about those bags.
@@Nethezbet I have one unopened in my kit.
I was a teenager in the early 90s painting Ultramarines. Dry brushing was done just using white paint, was the only highlight I knew how to do. And basing wasn't really a thing amongst my friends, was lucky if anyone even bothered painting them green. I've recently bought Phoenix Lord Baharroth (another 90s eldar metal mini) and after watching this I can't wait to paint it. Great vid, thanks
I've not painted any minis since the 90s, so hearing how far the paints have come is making me want to dip my foot back in the pool. The old Eldar and Chaos models were amazing fun to paint.
Same here, haven't been painting for over 20 years and only started again last month. Painting is so much fun, really addictive in fact, and there is so much more to learn and improve at. Such a good idea to get back into the hobby!
There was a "basic set" back in that range, just called Citadel Paint Set, that was to be combined with these other sets. It contained the base colors (red, blue, green, yellow) together with black, white, gold and silver and a flesh tone.
The 1994 basic set came with mithril silver, enchanted blue, sunburst yellow, Goblin green, skull white, black, bronzed flesh, and skin wash. Bronzed flesh and the skin wash made everything look like it was jaundiced
The inks set was really useful.
@@bagel_guy9495 that was the newer set in a box with the new design that featured the paints on the lid. Came with a brush as well and, iirc, a space marine and a chaos warrior model. The old set, in the same kind of box that is shown in the video, with a demon on top, had different paints.
That Jes Goodwin sculpt is absolutely iconic, and this paint job really makes it pop.
@Lavinia Whateley GW released an art book with a lot of his pencil sketches in. One of the favourite things I worked on, as I was just given a docu-box of his stuff and told to "make something cool".
I love Mordheim, and most of the models I paint are old, metal ones. I'd recommend checking out the original Mordheim releases. A really great line indeed!
Always cracks me up when someone motions and makes reference to "this video... right here!" and they're just motioning at the naked air
Tin bitz looked like that when you got it in the 90s as well, so you got the genuine experience. To this day I have no idea how or for what it was supposed to be used.
Check out the old metal Abaddon.
When I sold all my WH40K decades ago, the only miniature I kept is Abaddon. So many painful memories with him and stabbing my fingers.
The new one looks so much better though.
No way! I did the exact same, kept Abaddon. :)
(And an unpainted Fabius Bile, what a mini)
Metal Grimgor Ironhide! I recommend this one, it's awesome!
Also, when stripping metal models I recommend just a technical acetone! Fast and efficent 😀
I still have (and was showing my son who just started the hobby) a vintage carry box full of random 40k metal miniatures. Find yourself some Squats!
You’re speaking so much truth in painting in the 90s - on my first go around. Metals and there was no RUclips’s to help understand that you needed a true base coat - so was painting direct over the metal. There was also no metal etching primers either to give a great base coat so after a bit of play time most of your paint work started wearing off.
Also they were backing you into a jail cell on NEEDING the other paint lines to do blacks metals etc. And yeah the brushes were kinda crappy - but better than some unless you knew to go to a artist supply shop to get good ones
"Dungeons and/or Dragons" had me busting up. Daryl is a treasure 😂
"I'm not drinking that deep from the Emperor's sippy-cup." LMAO XD
I always loved the basic Von Carstein vampire on foot, the dude who looks straight up like Dracula. I have that one in a box somewhere probably aching to be stripped and repainted.
Old wood elf waywatchers are awesome. I fell in love with the leaf cloaks immediately. Also the chaos champion with the snake lower half (not sure if it was actually for slaanesh specifically). Green Knight is great as someone else said.
The green knight is a really nice model! I also remember the old Doombull model for Beastmen 6th edition, super cool at the time but a real nightmare to put together, you needed to pin the shit out of that to keep parts from falling off. Another fun thing that you had to learn the hard way in the 90s, pinning everything!
I second the Doombull, really love that model.
Came here to recommend the Green Knight as well.
"The pages of this book smell like BO and tears." That made me spew coffee, thanks.
Love your incredibly though videos, Ninjon. Thanks for being an inspiration!
Interesting to see those colours from an original box.
Now I didn't start painting WH40K until the mid 90's with the hex pots,
but I do have some Nostalgia 88 paints I purchased this year,
and their version of Fire dragon crimson is a medium purple-ish red.
This one from your box is a light purple.
Those old Jes Goodwin sculpts still look amazing 35 years on. I need to finish my warlocks!
The Ikit Claw model is metal and still available (listed as Arch-Warlock on the GW website since they haven't brought the character back for AoS yet). I painted it last year and it was an absolute joy. Darren Latham did an amazing version of it (which I used heavily as a reference for my NMM :P ).
I started playing 40K back in the early 90's I think? I miss those old, simple, Eldar models. I always liked the Howling Banshee's. Back then, there was no internet, so you only got to see pro painted models by buying White Dwarf, or similar magazines!
I just got what must be one of the last metal models still sold on the website. The missionary with powersword.
I must say I am impressed by the sculpt. The details (bar the powersword) are nice and crisp.
Remembering things I didn't know I forgot!! In the 90s we used to mix ground oats with our paint for bases.
ummm painting back in the 90's, air brushes were just becoming affordable and still cost waaay too much for me and for that matter those GW paints were about 5x the price of other model paints so I never actually got to use them. Price was really what made my models look like crap because after I scraped up enough cash to actually get the models I simply had no money left to properly paint and also I needed them painted fairly quickly so I could actually go play with my friends. Honestly its also the reason why I eventually quit 40k all together.
Having painted alot of old metal Eldar, I'd say that Karandras would be a fun next project, just look at the model and you'll see why.
The aspect lords are just adorable, I'd be happy with any being done
@@daedalus6796 same I just think Karandras would be hilarious just because of his massive head.
A note about dry brushing. The dry brush technique has completely changed since then. Back then we used hard bristled brushes that were tightly packed with a flat tip. Instead of lightly brushing over the top, we vigorously move the tip of the brush back and forth over the surfaces.
A second side note, Tin bitz wasn't silver at all. It was an almost dark rust color. Orks used it as a base coat and then we dry brushed silver over top
Awesome video Jon 👍 Thing is we didn't thin our paints back in the 90s Jon, well I didn't anyway, cos we didn't have RUclips, the internet or even Duncan to tell us too 😉
I still have paints from the 90s and I don't recall them being so thin. I'll have to check later
For me, the biggest difference back then was that there was very little good advice on painting techniques or guidance on how to actually improve your painting.
You would get 'painting guides' in books or white dwarf, that were a bit like that meme about how to draw a horse...
As a teenager back then, I kind of just assumed the eavy metal team were using some kind of black magic to get the amazing results you saw on the official models. It seemed completely unattainable for someone like me.
These days, thanks in no small part to people like Jon, we have access to a wealth of detailed information that really breaks down and demystifies the art of mini painting.
So whilst I'm still nowhere near the standard of those eavy metal paintjobs, I have improved a lot and I actually know the techniques I need to practice to continue improving.
My guess is that back in the day, the eavy metal team jealously guarded the nature of their 'dark arts'. The teenage plebs in their bedrooms weren't supposed to know this stuff.
Great video Jon! Now you know why everyone was so impressed with the eavy metal blacklining back in the day. Its much harder to do when you have no well defined edges and you need to have highlight lines right next to them. Also you should have a greater appreciation to those of us that used to follow the base, wash, drybrush standard back then too - drybrushing was an art in itself with those paints and washes and glazing just plain made sense.
I started painting just a little bit after this set, when GW came out with the black plastic flip top pots where the paint dried out shortly after you opened the pot and looked the other direction. God, what I wouldn't have given for a simple tutorial on thinning paints and color theory back then!
Love this! This was my first set of paints and eventually worked for Games Workshop in Aberdeen, Scotland, teaching people to paint models. Washes coming in were a real game changer but this is a glorious splash of nostalgia.
its crazy to me as someone similar age to you Ninjon, that GW have done basically nothing in my entire lifetime to ease the barrier of entry to the hobby as a whole. Its just too much for the average person, you have to be so invested before you even start!
I don't think there is anything they could do if you find what you said to be true tbh, i'm no GW fan, but let's see: Tutorials on how to use their paints and paint their models on youtube, contrast paint line designed initially to make painting faster and easier that's revolutionized our painting options, higher detail models so as to make worse paint jobs less obvious (think death guard for example), easier building of models compared to the old days of frustration at trying to get arms to set on skeletons/etc, free sample models given out sometimes at stores to new customers, better painting starter kits than before, paint starter kits now come with brush, clipper and mold line remover, newer instruction manuals way better.
I can shit on GW for days, there is an enormous amount of things they do wrong, but it pains my heart that you and seven other people actually believe that the entry barrier of the hobby hasn't improved, GW are probably one of the most easy to get into of the wargaming hobbies out there, pretty much part of why they are the most popular.
Credit should always be given where credit goes, now if we want to talk about worst balance of a wargame, pricing issues, using fomo negatively etc oh they the worst by far out there, it's not even close.
I cant really think of anything that would work except for publishing good informational material. If you make the game so easy that you can learn it in 30min, its going to be boring. Same thing with army building, if there is less detail, it becomes bland. Its a highly complex hobby after all and comes with its challenges, but after all, we all managed to start somewhere right?
@@nameisbad You are viewing this through your own experience. I am viewing this through the experience of getting my nephew into the hobby and trying to understand all the different lines, intro boxes, having a rule book then codexes that add to rules and trying to explain this all to my sister is a bloody nightmare so that she can relay this information to my nephew who simply doesnt understand what is good value and what isn't. He was asking for spacemarineheroes line which is a bloody gacha! Why does this even exist? Stuff like this confuses people like me, so how can a complete layman have any understanding without hours and hours of research?
@@tobiaspieringer1653 Try and get someone completely new (especially children) and help them understand what they need to learn before they can even make proper decisions about what minis to buy. The boxes are designed to be sold in such a way that they have annoying combinations of units that preys on FOMO and absurd pricing makes the commitment that much larger. Why is codex nearly £20 RRP? Its insane!
@@hughwoodford you are right with that. Codices and rulebooks are far far to expensive
I am mostly painting old WHFB stuff myself, so a couple of dozen great sculpts come to mind. But the old Teclis model from the 4th Edition High Elves remains one of my favourite minis of all time. Great character and quite an intimidating model to paint even now.
Oh for Warlocks and Farseers you could go with whatever you wanted back then since they were Seers but I have a few of those Warlocks and the Farseer as well with my Eldar Army since that was my first 40K army.
Great video. In my recollection of the 80’s and 90’s Warhammer techniques, it was all about washes and dry brushing. Also I remember the paints being a little thicker than yours, so they might have aged out some if my memory serves.
I’m really enjoying your channel!
I was thinking the same, even sealed I remember those paints thinning out quite a bit later but originally being pretty darn thick. It was one of the things I never liked about them, but they did do the best bone color I have ever used back then.
If we're talking old models, my favorite has to be the Fulgrim snake model was part of the Epic 40k line. I'm hoping one day a version will get released for actual 40k
Brings back so many memories, then it was just that or enamals. For the record Coat d'arms magic metal is a pretty good analygy for tin bits. They have all the old colours but to me they vary in how close they are (was disapointed in the goblin green analogy) it'd be interesting to compare them to the paints you have there to actually see for sure how close they actually are.
Coat d'Armes was the manufacturer for those old paint ranges.
@@DanielEbeck yep but often there is shift between batches nevermind over this time. Not my favourite paints but have some good colours.
Yesssss! Nostalgia galore. I don’t even think zenethal highlighting was a thing back then. I don’t remember it at all.
The washes in the hex pots they sold in the mid-late 90's were ELITE, took them years to bring back anything near as good, i only wish 8 year old me had taken better care of them. The brown one for leather was particularly insanely good.
This is timely. I only just got back into painting 40K, having last painted a few in the early 90's during my teens. Dragged out an old box to find a bunch of 1st edition Freebooterz & Space Marines. Heck I've even decided to finally paint my Space Crusade board game figures. Funny thing is with the assistance of youtube my 7 year old paints better than I did in my teens.
For those wanting these kind of paints, Coat d'arms still makes them though without the Citadel names on them.
Growing up in the 80's and painting in the 90's (last time i did any painting) I really liked the Eldar Phoenix Lord models. The older Metal Abaddon the Despoiler model was pretty cool as well.
On another note, I'm born and raised in Nottingham, so nice for it to get a mention!
Would love to see you take on the Goffik Rok Band trio. They were one of my fave groups back in the day.
As someone who first collected in the 90s I'm so happy to see this video - I don't understand the obsession with the old paints, they were horrible and painting in general has come so far. Zenithal highlighting though? That's like some futuristic nano tech - in the 90s there was just white or black. Also they are made from lead - don't lick the brush (maybe it wasn't the fermented paint?)
"painting in general has come so far..." yea, down the drain! X-D shut up, you know-nothing zoomer
pretty sure they're made of pewter, as its illegal sell lead toys in the USA. dunno where their classification fell, or if they were imported or whatever but I'm pretty sure they were pewter.
@@grazzitdvram They didn't start producing lead free miniatures until 1997 - it was an alloy prior. It was a very notable change because they reduced the metal miniatures in most blisters from 4 to 3.
Hey there! Few thoughts on this from someone who did paint in the '90s (albeit as a relative newbie and younger, so please don't call me a "Warhammer boomer")...
First, of course the paints aren't designed for "crisp edge highlighting," because that wasn't a thing at the time. That started to come about with GW models as the company shifted away from caring much about the games as games and more about promoting themselves as a "premium miniatures producer." They started doing comically extreme edge highlights on models to try to show off all the detail, in ways that frankly makes them look worse because they lose any sense of subtlety (and these days just highlights how their CAD miniature design has some areas it's still lacking in). Some people might like this method, but as GW goes, it was mainly meant to help market the models and photograph better for showing off "look how detailed our models are!"
And yeah, as you mentioned, the older models weren't over-saturated in a bunch of junk just to claim they're "super detailed" to charge a premium price. A lot of the junk on newer models just looks absolutely silly, makes them a pain to assemble and paint, and they'd be better models without it. But the newer target demographic buys the idea that shoving as much junk on a model as possible somehow makes it "better" so... here we are.
Tin Bitz isn't a dark silver or anything of the sort. You're thinking Boltgun Metal. Tin Bitz was more like a dark bronze. It's a paint I know well because I loved using it with my Orks, but sadly, it doesn't age well, so I'm not surprised it wasn't usable here.
A lot of your issues with trying to make this set work stem from it being a starter box intended to work with starter miniatures and get someone going. So it wasn't designed with the idea of blending and all in mind. You'd cut your teeth with a set like this, then go into picking up the shades or washes to help create shadows. Mixing paints to make darker or lighter highlights, much less blending in those shadows/highlights, was a more "advanced" concept at the time.
The paints work better over a white basecoat because that's what you were expected to use. Black basecoats were recommended only on models that were mostly metal or would be really dark. Zenithal priming wasn't even a thing, so no one took into consideration how that'd work with paints.
A lot of your paint points were in trying to apply modern concepts with an incomplete paint set designed for '90s style painting. If you want to really experience what painting in the '90s was like (for your own enjoyment/entertainment and/or another video), I'd recommend trying to find either a few more old Citadel Colour paints including washes, inks, and glazes, and one or two of the old books they produced on painting miniatures, and then trying the techniques shown in the books on some miniatures with those colors, and fight against the urge to use modern techniques to make them look better. You might be surprised how good they turn out with very basic work.
That's also kind of the huge difference between painting GW minis in the '90s versus today: In the '90s we all knew these were toy soldiers for playing games (GW themselves would admit that), so it was more about painting something that looked pretty good on a tabletop, not on a shelf. Top painters would compete in Golden Demon, but most people didn't put in a ton of techniques to paint their models. These days the hobby tries to focus people into painting up shelf pieces and producing them, rather than recognizing that from across the table no one will notice that subtle transition of fourteen different shades of color. Fair game to the folks who love to go all-out... but it has led to more situations of people just not trying because they can't produce top paint jobs, when they don't really need to. Lucky for me, I grew up in that era, I use simple techniques, so my models might not win awards, but I can put out a pretty nice looking gaming army in reasonable time. But yeah, that's also why Contrast wasn't available sooner, it's something they *could* have done but its whole premise is to create the most basic usable paint job and that goes against the newer idea of "You must paint these premium models to premium levels and display them on a shelf!"
Last thing... The ring around the base should be green. Preferably the base would be Goblin Green, not Scorpion Green, but don't know if you had that. But that's the "true" '90s experience. (No idea when black rings became the "norm.")
Sorry for this "wall of text" but hey, I like to reminisce on that stuff, and if I shared anything useful, bonus! Regardless of anything else, I definitely recommend looking up their old painting books, because they're interesting looks into the past of the hobby. (Ditto the terrain books... huge look into how the company changed there, from telling people how to make terrain out of scrap to now trying to pretend you can't use terrain that isn't their overpriced chunks of plastic.)
Wow, what a nostalgia trip. That Eldar Warlock is the very first mini I ever painted as a kid!
The great thing about the old paint bottles (still used by P3 and Coat d'arms) is that even if you have broken the seal, they'll keep for ages.
I remember discovering "zenithal" by drybrushing black coated models from the top with white when I was 14. We told nobody about it. We just assumed that was what you were supposed to do. I also remember discovering glazing because the paints were so thin. However, the paint viscosity was very variable on the old paints.We kept a few pots of thicker paint around for drybrushing purposes.
There were blacks available, but for some reason they were only included in the Citadel Color paint set and, as I recall it, the Space Marine paint set. The idea was probably that you either had them already or could buy them seperately. They also had Inks in the Expert Paint set.
Also, as you say, the old models were not as overdesigned as the modern ones. It doesn't make you a Warhammer Boomer :) Also, paint RT era Slann. They are amazingly silly. Paint one of those.
It was the best of times...... It was the blurst of times.
The simplicity of the minis is something I kind of miss.
Less physical details on a mini allows me to add more details with paint and brush.
Also - 'I knew I should have painted an Ork'.
I'd buy that t shirt.
So here me out……
Eldar Avatar.
He’s chunky has lots of detail, and there’s lots of room for color creativity. I’ve painted 3 or 4 in my hobby life and I’ve always had a great time.
I also have recently painted (still WIP) an Inquistor scale (54mm) Deathwatch Space Marine: Artemis.
Inquisitor scale would be rad too see you paint.
Add in no online videos and limited websites so that you were getting all your advice from magazines and people at the local game store it was a lawless time of painting experimentation and poorly done models. You really nailed it with your assessment at the end, that you leaned into what your tools did well which shaped your painting style. We are fortunate to have a huge assembly of tools and resources to teach us different styles that really make this a great time to be in the hobby. As for old models that I really loved, the Emperors Champion which might technically have been from 2000, with the "Your schwartz is as big as mine pose." It was so exciting when it came out and one of my favorite models to paint. I might brave a look in my old model box just to see how well I did..
The original Teclis is a beautiful model. I started painting Warhammer in college in 92. I bought a 5 lb bag of green aquarium sand for basing and still have over half of it.
I think it's pretty mean that you didn't invite Darryl to Adepticon. The dude works so hard for you, the least you could have done was take him with you.
Darryl was at Adepticon! Jon said on the TUP podcast that he spent most his time at the Army Painter booth in a full ghillie suit
@@Reyat_Minis Haha yeah I think you’re right! I’ve been binge watching TUP lately while I’ve been working on projects!
Delete?
@@oliverp3545 Nahh dude this was just a joke. Jon can invite whoever he wants.
@@Tericho how?
The old metal Chaos Lord in terminator armor is **chef's kiss**
I lost my original body of the model to the sands of time, but I'm currently using it's sword on my current Chaos Lord I converted from Space Marine Aggressor armor.
One of the rare content creators out there that produces quality content; always a treat when you upload a video to help us nerds LOL! Keep up the great videos and advices to slay the gray!
Great video. For oldhammer metal models, I'd recommend the classic Marauder centrepieces like Orc Shaman on War Wyvern, Marauder Giant, Treemen, High Elf War Griffon (Eltharion on Stormwing), The Emperor's War Griffon Deathclaw (Emperor Karl Franz on Monstrous Steed)... all of these were dream models for early 90s kids and so full of character that I fell is missing in modern sculpts. Would love to see you tackle on of these Jon 👍🏽
Warhammer boomer here. Really great job on this model. I am glad to hear you found some appreciation of the character the models of this era had in spades. I could never get anywhere close to these effects back in the 90s but it's great to see someone using modern techniques and equipment to see what these old paints are capable of. As for a model suggestion, you should check out Aekold Helbrass. As a Chaos Champion of Tzeentch, this miniature displays some of the best craftwork of the time in its intricate and textured scale armor, horns, and studded armor along with its own banner pole and Chaos Icon. Great piece but hard to find these days.
Mixing paints, and using techniques was PART of the hobby back in my day.
I used to paint during the 90s. The way I did it back then was white prime, black line with chaos black, then go back and clean up with the white. Because of how thin the paints were, mistakes wouldn't show up too much when going over the black. Decent results.
This is a topic I'm really into lately. I recently hunted down all of the original Citadel range sets (minus the Epic set because I didn't see the point) still shrink-wrapped as well as all the old Eavy Metal painting guides by Mike McVey from the era. I set about painting up an entire 1989 HeroQuest set using only those paints, inks, recipes and nothing newer. I just finished a few weeks ago.
Painting 5 layers of basecoat over white and having to reapply white whenever you spilled over into another area was a real chore. I learned too late that John Blanche's intention for the range was to have you mix inks into the paints and I found that really improved base coat coverage. Layering up smooth layers is wonderful though with these paints and that's really what they were made to do. I wouldn't recommend them to most folks though.
It was a passion project 33 years in the making. But finally looking at an Orc I painted and seeing something pretty damn close to the minis I saw in White Dwarf all those years go was really special.
I have a small collection of old Eldar models and I believe this guy is among them. Maybe I need to sit down and rediscover my love of Eldar.
All takes me back... I was painting both a dark elf army and ultramarines from 88-95. Just started painting again after introducing my kid to D&D this time around, rather than Warhammer. Took some of my painted models to the NEC in Birmingham for a big GW meet up. Remember getting on a bus from my local Games Workshop at 5am to get up there. Think I had the Ork & Eldar paint set and some of those citadel brushes. There was a trick with dry brushing to leave the pains out for about 30-60 minutes before getting them on your dry brush!
Earth Elemental from GW i think from the late 80s is one of the best to my opinion ! It is my lucky charm mini since i was 13 (and am now 47)
I'm glad someone else thinks these old metal minis have so much character to them. I got an old Harlequin avatar mini that's like five years older than me that's still full of detail, like if it was a mini made by a small company today I'd see it as a modern mini if that makes sense.
Look for the old original greater Demons - I spent 2 weeks on the original great unclean one and probably another 2 on the bloodthirster - be sure to pin those pieces together on assembly!
If you're going to collect classic minis then you need to start with Jes Goodwin, his stuff is phenomenal and some of it still holds up today. His ogres have a special place in my nostalgic heart.
Oh man, i remember going to the "fantasy shop" in my area here in germany. I bought that exact eldar guy with the sword waaay back in the 90s. I was never into painting those miniatures myself. Not even WH(40k) back then. Was more of a 'Runner back in the day. But I had that exact one... glad to see it finally come to life.. somewhere :) good job :)
I originally painted minis back in the 90s and remember when the warhammer minis were made from lead before switching to white metal. Then life happened and the hobby was put aside now I have a son who has gotten into the horus heresy age of darkness and the joy of painting has filled the house again. On top of that I've descoverd your chanel and thank the gods your around I've learnt a lot from watching your vids so from a father and son from England a very big thank you.
I always loved the trenchcoated metal Incubi from the Asdrubael Vect kit. I spent too much money back in 3rd edition so my 10-dude Incubi squad all had trenchcoats.
I remember stumbling across Tactics Ogre at my local Blockbuster, renting it, and having my mind blown by my first ever tactics RPG. My Blockbuster had a policy where if a game wasn't rented for a period of 6 weeks, it would be put up for sale. The restraint and patience I showed as a 10 year old has outstripped all achievements in my life since. Two different times it made it to five weeks before someone else rented it, but the evening when I begged my parents to stop by the store on the way home (even though it wasn't movie night) and found it there waiting for me on the used games shelf for 5$ brought on a flood of euphoria that I will never ever forget - First kiss: close but no...College Graduation: HA, no...Day I got married: .
I loved that game SO MUCH. Several years later we moved and the game somehow got lost in the process. I wept.
My first experience with GW was in '89 when a GW representative came into a hobby shop in Florida and had a box of chaos knights no blister packs talk the owner in to put them in to the display case for sale 350 $4 I think I purchased two and painted them with testers paint.... Wish I still had them
I love how you explain the things you've learned and use it to build upon your growing experience. Really inspirational, can't wait for more content.
Your comment about the vibrancy and transparency of those paints brings back memories.
When I rejoined the hobby recently I was surprised folks frequently use different colour undercoats inc. gray.
When I tried that back when these paints were around, they resulted in bad coverage and contrast (though I didn’t know that at the time).
Now I understand why I don't click with modern paints, your description of the paint I learnt on, match my experience and skillset. I have to unlearn it all to get into the new paints.
Not many people primed straight black in the 90s. Like you said it was murder to cover over black. Most of the primer we used back then was grey automotive primer or white, so doing black with a white zenithal is a pretty good approximation of the time.
Also your take on them being like contrast is probably why I like contrast so much since I started painting in the 80's and 90s. I prefer painting with inks and stains over straight colors.
Whilst I didn't have the paint set you used, I had the others on the box to go with my box of space marines and imperial guard. Still have them somewhere along with the original 40K rulebook. Yes... I'm that old.
This was a really fun video - very enjoyable and you still managed to insert some thoughtful suggestions for us to consider. Thanks!
Great video! For metal models, the old Eltharion on griffon it's such an awesome 90s model.
One of the first minis that I painted was a metal, skeleton warrior with a huge winged helmet, a shield with a skull and crossbones on it and wielding a battleaxe. He is in robes and chainmail. According to the 1990 catalogue it is a Classic Wight. I painted it with craft acrylics and I will always keep it that way! It even gets used sometimes in miniature agnostic games.
I want to see what you can do with the Brettonian Green Knight. It was pretty much the absolute PEAK of 1990's Warhammer Fantasy sculpting, first released in 1998.
This!
Regarding older metal miniatures, if you can find a metal Njal the Stormcaller, I love that model. I recently painted a finecast version and it was not a good model, with lots of mold lines and mold slip, but if you can find a clean metal version, it's a super beautiful model from the early 90s.
Also, Old High Elf Dragon Princes--while their horses are not fun--are just excellent. And Phoenix Guard.
Damn, Tin Bitz was the second paint colour I bought (outside of the starter paint set) back in 96/97 , the other was of course a Metallic green. I can still remember the smell haha. It brings back the many challenges I remember of trying to do crisp edge highlights, and now makes me want to try out some modern paints after a 20+ year hiatus. 😅
I starded painting in '97. Those models have a special place in my heart and shelf. Great nostalgia but I'm happy to have better paints and more sources to learn ouside of white dwarf, but the journey was good. I still play with my old metal chaos chaos models.
Back then, many of us used the high quality paints from Tamiya, Gunze Sanyo, Modelmaster, and Polly Scale. One coat coverage, great color ranges, ready to use. Good times. Tried some GW paints back then and tossed them.
Some years back, when my parents moved from our old house, I got a box of someo of my old things. In it was three of the old Citadel Paints, from about this era.
They had been used by me, so I expected them to be ruined, but they were all in pretty good shape. I can't say that for my three year old GW paints...
Sadly in my box of things was none of my old minis... of which that Warlock was one... I loved that Warlock dude.
Hah, I had a pot of tin bitz back in the day and it went just like that at the time. Red and yellow was always a nightmare to paint with the old paints.
It's on the much older side but the Citadel LE10 Power Armored Trooper is a fun sculpt with too many little wires that later inspired the mechanicum's thallax models for Horus Heresy
For cheap and effective stripping of miniatures: LA's Totally Awesome. It's carried in dollar stores where I am. Leave it for a few hours, undiluted, then rinse and brush with an old toothbrush. Repeat as necessary (thick paint jobs). I've done this on Reaper and GW minis and it doesn't hurt the model (metal or plastic).
The blood-axe warboss is a personal favourite old metal model. Big axe and stick-bomb in a relaxed pose, a smug orky grin and a military cap. Screams classic GW design, pre-gorkamorka ork renaissance.
I the comment you made about how metal models have not a crazy amount of details but still have lots of character. This is so true even with other companies like reaper, and the big reason why I enjoy painting metal models over plastic lots of the time!!
We black lined with a small micron art pen in the 90s. Also Tin Bits was a unique dark bronze color that was key to 90s rust effects by stippling or dry/over brushing it on. Also it was a good undercoat for Ork stuff. You could stipple or dry/over brush you Ork tribal colors over it and get the incidental micro scratches that are trendy now. Was it as sexy as modern paint jobs? No, but it made me extra money doing commission jobs, and more people know how to paint now as well.
The old skaven grey seer "Gnawdoom" is my favorite metal GW model from antiquity. (C47) 1986.