Hi, The electrification of the Gawler line so ridiculously expensive at $16.7 million/ km. Putting electric wires above an existing suburban train line (double tracked) with support poles should be really cheap given there're no mighty engineering challenges. There're no mighty rivers, valleys, hills and mountains to cross; just electrical cables. This Gawler line electrification project for 42 km long is beyond an embarrassing joke when it comes to insanely high cost blowouts. Perth's Mandurah line is 70.1 km long and only costs $1.22 billion total or $17.5 million/ km (see 1st link below). That cheap and well built Mandurah line included train stations, pedestrians overpasses, fare gates, park n rides, fully integrated bus to train interchanges, new rolling stock, signalling and 25 kV overhead electrical wires (see the 1st & 2nd links below). The double tracked railway track of the Mandurah line was built fully grade separated in the median of Perth's Southern freeway that never stopped flowing. The railway line had to cross two rivers with two bridges. A city block in Perth had to be demolished to accommodate an Underground station for the Mandurah line. The tunneling of the Mandurah line under Perth's CBD was a technically challenging project to connect the South to the Joondalup (North) line. WA's mining boom sucked killed labour out of Perth with limited supply of steel, but the entire Mandurah line project came in budget and slightly overtime. The entire Mandurah line was built for $17.5 million/ km in 2007 dollars without cost blowouts. Rail infrastructure rip offs in Australia links: m.ruclips.net/video/d0kIYfx0fRI/видео.html (The great rail infrastructure rip-off, Ecotransit Sydney) m.ruclips.net/video/ejENsIhwqTU/видео.html (Sydney rail costs rip-off (video), Ecotransit Sydney) Perth's Mandurah line: transportsydney.wordpress.com/tag/mandurah-line/ blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/2013/03/15/if-wa-can-build-rail-lines-cheaply-why-cant-the-other-states/ www.google.com/amp/s/thewest.com.au/news/wa/joondalup-and-mandurah-train-lines-celebrate-significant-anniversaries-ng-b88688795z.amp The Western Australian government sets a good example of how to properly build railway projects cheaply and efficiently with no cost blowouts. It's unbelievable that any railway infrastructure costs significantly more to construct and operate in Australia and America when compared to many parts of the world. These crazy high estimates by state goverments of construction of railway lines are a deliberate attempt by the ruthless motoring lobby to demonise improvements to public transport and forcing more freeway construction. The high cost estimates for vital road, rail and other transport infrastructure (especially cycling) are a cosy duopoly between the state government and private construction companies designed to benefit the greedy construction industry. Also, corruption and bureaucracy of government and the motoring lobby or industry are to blame for the high cost of Australian railway projects and other transport infrastructure. There has to be an independent national inquiry to why countless of recent road, railway and other transport infrastructure cost so much in Australia. A steel railway with grade separated trains are awesome for high capacity, but it simply has to be far cheaper to construct and operate in Australia. We need improvements to Adelaide's suburban train network to so that it can benefit commuters immediately, check road congestion while being value for money of taxpayers.
Couldn't agree more. Every state seems to be suffering from the same problem. Costs have risen to the point where we think a project over $500 million is cheap and insignificant honestly. While I don't know what can really be done about this, I think it's safe to say it's holding a lot of good PT projects back. I doubt much is going to be done about it, as Governments seem pretty happy to just keep borrowing...
@@AussieWirraway, The Gawler electrification project was originally $150 million, but from Adelaide Railway Station (ARS) to Salisbury. Then, the price of electrifying the existing Gawler line from ARS to Gawler Central increased from $300 million all the way to $715 million with cost blowouts. At these expensive prices and slow rates, we in Adelaide will never a direct underground rail link built quickly at a reasonable price. This stupid South Australian government has decided to privatise Adelaide's suburban train network. These state bureaucrats have wasted $2.1 billion on privatising Adelaide's tram and train network while pretending that privatisation is magically going to improve Adelaide's train patronage. The SA government desprately lies and says it will still own the "rail assets" including trains, trams, tracks and stations, and will continue to set the fare price for travel. A private operator, Keolis Downer will continue to demand the entire control of the rail assets. Adelaide's buses were privatised in 2000's where buses often competed against trains lines within close walking distance for the same number of potential passengers. Evidence of privatising public transport shows that services are less frequent, capacity is reduced while costs of fares substantially increases. Why? A private operator has a driven interest in making absolute profit from public transport rather than providing enough services that the public need. Instead, that $2.1 billion can be used for improving capacity constraints (bottlenecks) of Adelaide's train network. Improvements to Adelaide's suburban train network at reasonable costs include: - Excess station removals to improve average speed of an all stations train service - Duplicating tracks of existing train lines, Gawler, Belair and Outer Harbor lines. - Remove existing railway level crossings at road intersections and train stations to improve safety and capacity of road users, pedestrians, cyclists and train passengers. - Turn the branch Grange and Flinders line into frequent feeder train services (10 - 12 mins) with single carriage 3000 class DMU trains. This can improve the capacity and frequency of the entire Outer Harbor and Seaford lines. - Electrify the Outer Harbor line. - Extending the Gawler and Belair lines to Lyndoch and Mount Barker respectively - Lengthen existing train stations to accommodate a 6 carriage 4000 class EMU train. Each carriage of a 3000 or 4000 class train are approximately 27 m long. - Widening existing train platforms, adding faregates, bicycle parking and restrooms in major train stations after excess station removals - Ticket machines must be added at the entry of the train station or before the faregates to facilitate a faster turnover of passengers. - Remove validators on the trains doors and ticket machines inside the trains. - Integrated bus and train interchanges - Bus network redesign from a useless hub and spoke to a frequent all day connected grid. Transferring can be good, as long the connecting services are frequent, comfortable, safe and within walking distance. Even the O'bahn busway junk is highly inadequate for this day and age due to the low capacity nature of buses in a highly patronised corridor. The O'bahn has to be converted to a steel wheeled metro system (third rail) with trains. An O'bahn conversion to a metro system improves the capacity of the Adelaide's North Eastern corridor while allowing buses to be repurposed as cross city routes to serve the suburbs.
@@AussieWirraway, The motoring lobby and their greedy automotive industries have enormous amount of power and influence in politics. Many recent basic railway projects in Australia have crazy high cost estimates by the state treasuries, and it's a very serious problem. It's obvious that the motoring lobby tries to make railway projects or other improvements to public transport as expensive as possible in order to demonise public transport. Even improvements to cycling especially in Adelaide are slow and ridiculously expensive. Then, the motoring lobby and the automotive industries often agrue against the overinflated costs in improving public transport and cycling to aggressively push for more freeway construction and other unnecessary road projects. The automotive agenda has destroyed many North American cities due to excessive low density urban sprawl with single use zoning and frequent traffic congestion from the freeways. Pedestrian, bicycle networks and street networks (with dead ends) are deliberately poorly designed in many North American and Australian cities to make walking and cycling as unusable alternatives to cars for short distance travel (1 km - 4 km). Cars are always a single occupant vehicle, and sometimes 2 people due to practical reasons. Short distance travel (1 km - 4 km) by car is an absolute overkill. Detroit and Denver are American cities where their urban fabric have been completely destroyed for the single occupant car and spaghetti junction of freeways. There were suggestions to double deck the existing freeways in Los Angeles, thankfully it didn't happen; it shows that car travel has gone too far. Of course, excessively overcrowded public transport where lots of passengers are left behind is also bad. Cities are for people vibrant communities first and active transport for short distance travel, not cars. A big mistake to fully neglect public transport for the private car. The purpose of public transport is to successfully keep single occupant car traffic in check. Walking, cycling, zoning and street networks are very important too, and should never be overlooked. A multimodal modal transport network is needed in Adelaide with multi use zoning.
@@michaeleverett1479 Definitely agree with a lot of your points. Adelaide's rail network still has a lot of potential and despite efforts from the Government to run it into the ground for so long at the very least patronage has rapidly climbed since rail revival. I mean in the past decade patronage has doubled, and while the number of people on the system is still low, it's better then it used to be by a long shot. Originally I do believe scope for GREP was platform extensions, but that must of got cut out. The highest priority item I think we still need to do is electrifying the OH line, which should have been done years ago. At that point I do think an underground city loop or expanding capacity at the existing rail terminus would be the best idea. All lines need to run at least 4 tph (except Grange), and the seaford and gawler line should probably get all day 10 minute max waits.
Was wondering if you would consider floating the imaginary idea of a barossa extension from the Gawler line? Since the death of the stone train from Angaston, bit's of railway infrastructure have been removed, making a revitalisation of the line impossible. (Cromers crossing in Tanunda for example)
That project chewed up most of my life in January and February this year. It better bloody be running trains by now. Fun experience to work on and made me switch career tracks.
This was all supposed to have been electrified in the 1940s...Adelaide station has been downsized from 13 platforms to 9, it can not cope with peak arrivals and departures as our population grows. Our town planners only plan for today's needs and not the future.
@@AussieWirraway I hope they get this done soon.an hour on the J1 Bus in either direction to Elizabeth is not fun for personal business after work from town.
In an age where travelling between the burbs instead of the city proper; the Adelaide train system has no Adelaide station bypass, that could make a direct journey from Gawler to Noarlunga possible. I can get from Gawler to Noarlunga in my car via the south road corridor quicker. (notice I didn't call the north south motorway, that's because it isn't!, yet!) I recon if people could get from Gawler to a locale south of the city via train, direct, that'd relieve some congestion at peak times, especially on West Terrace.
Suprised they have to shut the entire line completely for electrification. In North-west England there was a significant electrification project of suburban lines between Liverpool and Manchester when I was living in the area, and it was done mainly with weekend and overnight closures. Admittedly it slowed work down, but it did allow basic weekday daytime service to continue, which I would have thought would be a pretty big deal for Adelaide given the importance of the Gawler route.
I didn't realise Abbot's role in the debacle. We owe a lot to old Tony. The snail pace half NBN sort of fibre sort of not fibre half and half as well as Gawler line mess. I have lived in Perth before moving to Adelaide and Perth electrified their trains so much faster.
India has already electrified 80% of their entire railway network and they are aiming for 100%. Total network length is 67956 km. It is nationalised. Also, the system used is overhead wires
Hi Aussie that may me wondering if there was a test train going to being on the Gawler line or maybe just putting wires down the pole and thanks for the Gawler electric trains I will being looking forward to that when the Gawler line is open for the Gawler rail electrification project will start
There will likely be test trains on the line by late this year, as they have started putting the OE up, but OE will be needed right into adelaide station before testing can begin
Hi, Aussie just needs to tell you the Gawler line won't open until 26.4.21 just need to tell you that but it not going to run to Gawler central it going to terminate at Mawson Lakes and on the 25.4.21 there is going to being a test train to Adelaide to Mawson Lakes and if you click on the link of Adelaide metro adelaidemetro.com.au/Announcements2/Service-updates/Gawler-rail-line-closures#Boxing%20Day and make sure you visit that one so you can see what is going on and see what line is closed and if you see where they are closing from which stations go to Adelaide metro and ask everyone Aussie but make sure you do more electric trains project.
I have no why it's taking so long considering they aren't doing any major engineering works alongside it. In Queensland they regularly put up new bases and poles alongside the current line while the tracks are open. Only needing a weekend closure to do the final finishing touches.
You didn't talk about how electric trains can typically accelerate a lot faster than their diesel counterparts and how this'll make journey times much faster.
With great respect. Hammering on about "cost over runs" is not useful commentary . There are so many unknowns in a big project. The price of Iron and Steel was a lot less before the housing boom brought on shortages in steel and the resultant price increases. The Pandemic interrupted the construction schedule and that also increased the costs. Who would want to be a trades person putting in a quote for construction in the current era? A lot of businesses are going to go broke because of "un-foreseen" cost increases.
Indian railways reached 83% of its 68,000 kilometers of active mainline track at the end of 2022. Australia has only managed a pathetic less than 1%. If India can make it happen, what's Australia's excuse?
I sneeze at your mere $16.9m per KM - Perth's new line is some $231m per KM - Brisbane new line is some $529m per KM - Melbourne's new line is some $1,222m per KM to grow one needs put in the money for these improvements or you can just waste away and end up like Darwin or Hobart that don't even HAVE trains
@@Adelaide_Transit you will find it is not JUST for "electrification" but for the trains themselves, stations redesign and new rails as well, as the dmu rail are X lengths and electric are welded therefore your more-less creating a new line, the other states cost blow out is tunnelling & levelling land, Brisbane/ Melbourne more less use existing trains - Perth getting new trains
@@paulwilliams5208 22 stations are being rebuilt and upgraded (that’s a different program than GREP) The rails aren’t being rebuilt at all, the line was rebuilt in the late 2000s and early 2010s as a preparation for electrification but ipthe budget for it came from rail revival, majority of stations on the Gawler line can take 6-8 car trains, no major grade separations are occurring, the only thing occurring other than electrification is a new signalling system.
@@paulwilliams5208 The C sets are just replacements for the A sets which are life expired by the time the C sets arrive, so hardly an example of "new trains" per se. Melbourne is also getting new trains to replace the time expired Comeng trains, so again hardly an example of using existing trains. Any comparisons between the costs of the Gawler line upgrade compared to what is going on in Brisbane and Melbourne is utterly pointless: the moment you start tunnelling, costs get very expensive, that is why you avoid tunnelling wherever possible.
Great video. I have a transport channel which I recommend you subscribe if your interested in transport video. I plan on filming some bus and train videos more on there later this year. Looking forward to seeing more rail videos on your channel. Also quick question, are there potential Train line extensions for either the Belair line or Gawler line later on down the track to further on?
I've subbed and will be looking out for you videos :) As for your question - no, I'd say we'll be waiting at least 5 years for railway extensions in Adelaide. one might happen if 2023 if Labor gets elected however.
I think that the diesel trains have lots of character, in my opinion the electric trains are petty boring and it compares to a Queensland SMU 260, also I don’t get why Australia has not implanted 3rd rail systems, it would probably be much cheaper because there is no need for supports of the overhead wires, but I guess that the 4000 class trains can’t be converted
3rd rail would have to be DC and there are major issues with DC electrification, notably voltage drop when too many trains are drawing power in a section, and the increased number of substations to feed the system - averaging around every 2km for DC as opposed to around 25km for AC. That is even before even considering the health and safety issues.
@@MichaelTavares Melbourne was first city in Australia to have electric trains, 1919, just after first world war. Sydney electrified in 1926, NOT the 1950s.
@@noelhass3712 well it didn't happen all at once did it. it was a progressive roll out. I think the majority of what we'd call the Sydney suburban network was done by the 50s.
What? Adelaide's population has grown from 1 million in 2000 to 1.3 million today. It's not exactly lightning growth but it's growing quite a lot. South Australia's population will hit 2 million by 2050 as well, there's no signs of it slowing down, the pandemic is a small dip in overseas immigration that will be gone in a few years. Adelaide's population is growing, it's growing a lot still and it's going to do more yet. Most of this growth will be in the northern suburbs too, where it will greatly benefit from the Gawler Line electrification.
@@AussieWirraway, Any city doesn't need a massive population or crazy high density to justify a good public transport system. It's time to open our minds and realise that any city including Adelaide cannot survive without high quality public transport. Adelaide currently has bad public transport which actually contributes to road congestion as buses in mixed traffic serve Adelaide CBD excessively. A hub and spoke system PT in Adelaide is totally unworkable and needs to be redesigned to a connected frequent grid. 90% of people in Adelaide drive on weekdays as a result of a lack of cross city buses, fast and frequent train services. PT experiences in Perth, Australia are a model to inspire in improving Adelaide's struggling PT. Also, Perth is a low density city, but has the best suburban train network for an Australian capital city. There's a comprehensive long term plan to improve Perth's public transport with buses, busways, tram/ light rail and trains/ heavy rail.
It is easy to assume the SA population isn't growing when national MP's are being lost to NSW & Vic etc.. This is due to redistribution, to supply fair and equal representation of the national population overall. This doesn't mean SA's population is reducing, just that we are growing slower than other states. This is a good thing in a way; SA has a 'steady' home building & house price market, unlike Vic and NSW, where it can fluctuate violently from month to month. SA has dealt with the Covid-19 situation pretty well. I think that other states have been watching. SA is in a good place to host NSW workers, working from home (internet).
All I’ve got to say is thay wood have been better off keeping there jumbo train’s or the red hens why’s that you may ask all these questions as to upgrades is just a waste of time and money money that could be put to better use on something els but not technology why I don’t like it don’t use it and never 👎 will it’s old school for me always has and will be technology for me is a sledge hammer ok and that’s how I feel about it and see it also I tell it how I see it
With all due respect the average life span of a train is 45 years. And to get people to ride a service it has to be clean, frequent and up to date. Now call me old fashioned but I doubt the parts for an 80 year old train are made any more, meaning that the train will have reliability issues and cleanliness issues thus driving people away from it. As it is the 3000's are exceeding their lifespan as well. These upgrades are to ensure that ridership keeps increasing. PT is as much about physcology as it is physical services
Hi,
The electrification of the Gawler line so ridiculously expensive at $16.7 million/ km. Putting electric wires above an existing suburban train line (double tracked) with support poles should be really cheap given there're no mighty engineering challenges. There're no mighty rivers, valleys, hills and mountains to cross; just electrical cables. This Gawler line electrification project for 42 km long is beyond an embarrassing joke when it comes to insanely high cost blowouts.
Perth's Mandurah line is 70.1 km long and only costs $1.22 billion total or $17.5 million/ km (see 1st link below). That cheap and well built Mandurah line included train stations, pedestrians overpasses, fare gates, park n rides, fully integrated bus to train interchanges, new rolling stock, signalling and 25 kV overhead electrical wires (see the 1st & 2nd links below). The double tracked railway track of the Mandurah line was built fully grade separated in the median of Perth's Southern freeway that never stopped flowing. The railway line had to cross two rivers with two bridges. A city block in Perth had to be demolished to accommodate an Underground station for the Mandurah line. The tunneling of the Mandurah line under Perth's CBD was a technically challenging project to connect the South to the Joondalup (North) line. WA's mining boom sucked killed labour out of Perth with limited supply of steel, but the entire Mandurah line project came in budget and slightly overtime. The entire Mandurah line was built for $17.5 million/ km in 2007 dollars without cost blowouts.
Rail infrastructure rip offs in Australia links:
m.ruclips.net/video/d0kIYfx0fRI/видео.html (The great rail infrastructure rip-off, Ecotransit Sydney)
m.ruclips.net/video/ejENsIhwqTU/видео.html (Sydney rail costs rip-off (video), Ecotransit Sydney)
Perth's Mandurah line:
transportsydney.wordpress.com/tag/mandurah-line/
blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/2013/03/15/if-wa-can-build-rail-lines-cheaply-why-cant-the-other-states/
www.google.com/amp/s/thewest.com.au/news/wa/joondalup-and-mandurah-train-lines-celebrate-significant-anniversaries-ng-b88688795z.amp
The Western Australian government sets a good example of how to properly build railway projects cheaply and efficiently with no cost blowouts.
It's unbelievable that any railway infrastructure costs significantly more to construct and operate in Australia and America when compared to many parts of the world. These crazy high estimates by state goverments of construction of railway lines are a deliberate attempt by the ruthless motoring lobby to demonise improvements to public transport and forcing more freeway construction. The high cost estimates for vital road, rail and other transport infrastructure (especially cycling) are a cosy duopoly between the state government and private construction companies designed to benefit the greedy construction industry. Also, corruption and bureaucracy of government and the motoring lobby or industry are to blame for the high cost of Australian railway projects and other transport infrastructure.
There has to be an independent national inquiry to why countless of recent road, railway and other transport infrastructure cost so much in Australia. A steel railway with grade separated trains are awesome for high capacity, but it simply has to be far cheaper to construct and operate in Australia. We need improvements to Adelaide's suburban train network to so that it can benefit commuters immediately, check road congestion while being value for money of taxpayers.
Couldn't agree more. Every state seems to be suffering from the same problem. Costs have risen to the point where we think a project over $500 million is cheap and insignificant honestly.
While I don't know what can really be done about this, I think it's safe to say it's holding a lot of good PT projects back. I doubt much is going to be done about it, as Governments seem pretty happy to just keep borrowing...
@@AussieWirraway, The Gawler electrification project was originally $150 million, but from Adelaide Railway Station (ARS) to Salisbury. Then, the price of electrifying the existing Gawler line from ARS to Gawler Central increased from $300 million all the way to $715 million with cost blowouts. At these expensive prices and slow rates, we in Adelaide will never a direct underground rail link built quickly at a reasonable price.
This stupid South Australian government has decided to privatise Adelaide's suburban train network. These state bureaucrats have wasted $2.1 billion on privatising Adelaide's tram and train network while pretending that privatisation is magically going to improve Adelaide's train patronage. The SA government desprately lies and says it will still own the "rail assets" including trains, trams, tracks and stations, and will continue to set the fare price for travel. A private operator, Keolis Downer will continue to demand the entire control of the rail assets.
Adelaide's buses were privatised in 2000's where buses often competed against trains lines within close walking distance for the same number of potential passengers.
Evidence of privatising public transport shows that services are less frequent, capacity is reduced while costs of fares substantially increases. Why? A private operator has a driven interest in making absolute profit from public transport rather than providing enough services that the public need.
Instead, that $2.1 billion can be used for improving capacity constraints (bottlenecks) of Adelaide's train network. Improvements to Adelaide's suburban train network at reasonable costs include:
- Excess station removals to improve average speed of an all stations train service
- Duplicating tracks of existing train lines, Gawler, Belair and Outer Harbor lines.
- Remove existing railway level crossings at road intersections and train stations to improve safety and capacity of road users, pedestrians, cyclists and train passengers.
- Turn the branch Grange and Flinders line into frequent feeder train services (10 - 12 mins) with single carriage 3000 class DMU trains. This can improve the capacity and frequency of the entire Outer Harbor and Seaford lines.
- Electrify the Outer Harbor line.
- Extending the Gawler and Belair lines to Lyndoch and Mount Barker respectively
- Lengthen existing train stations to accommodate a 6 carriage 4000 class EMU train. Each carriage of a 3000 or 4000 class train are approximately 27 m long.
- Widening existing train platforms, adding faregates, bicycle parking and restrooms in major train stations after excess station removals
- Ticket machines must be added at the entry of the train station or before the faregates to facilitate a faster turnover of passengers.
- Remove validators on the trains doors and ticket machines inside the trains.
- Integrated bus and train interchanges
- Bus network redesign from a useless hub and spoke to a frequent all day connected grid. Transferring can be good, as long the connecting services are frequent, comfortable, safe and within walking distance.
Even the O'bahn busway junk is highly inadequate for this day and age due to the low capacity nature of buses in a highly patronised corridor. The O'bahn has to be converted to a steel wheeled metro system (third rail) with trains. An O'bahn conversion to a metro system improves the capacity of the Adelaide's North Eastern corridor while allowing buses to be repurposed as cross city routes to serve the suburbs.
@@AussieWirraway, The motoring lobby and their greedy automotive industries have enormous amount of power and influence in politics. Many recent basic railway projects in Australia have crazy high cost estimates by the state treasuries, and it's a very serious problem. It's obvious that the motoring lobby tries to make railway projects or other improvements to public transport as expensive as possible in order to demonise public transport. Even improvements to cycling especially in Adelaide are slow and ridiculously expensive. Then, the motoring lobby and the automotive industries often agrue against the overinflated costs in improving public transport and cycling to aggressively push for more freeway construction and other unnecessary road projects. The automotive agenda has destroyed many North American cities due to excessive low density urban sprawl with single use zoning and frequent traffic congestion from the freeways. Pedestrian, bicycle networks and street networks (with dead ends) are deliberately poorly designed in many North American and Australian cities to make walking and cycling as unusable alternatives to cars for short distance travel (1 km - 4 km). Cars are always a single occupant vehicle, and sometimes 2 people due to practical reasons. Short distance travel (1 km - 4 km) by car is an absolute overkill. Detroit and Denver are American cities where their urban fabric have been completely destroyed for the single occupant car and spaghetti junction of freeways. There were suggestions to double deck the existing freeways in Los Angeles, thankfully it didn't happen; it shows that car travel has gone too far. Of course, excessively overcrowded public transport where lots of passengers are left behind is also bad.
Cities are for people vibrant communities first and active transport for short distance travel, not cars. A big mistake to fully neglect public transport for the private car. The purpose of public transport is to successfully keep single occupant car traffic in check. Walking, cycling, zoning and street networks are very important too, and should never be overlooked. A multimodal modal transport network is needed in Adelaide with multi use zoning.
@@michaeleverett1479 Definitely agree with a lot of your points. Adelaide's rail network still has a lot of potential and despite efforts from the Government to run it into the ground for so long at the very least patronage has rapidly climbed since rail revival. I mean in the past decade patronage has doubled, and while the number of people on the system is still low, it's better then it used to be by a long shot.
Originally I do believe scope for GREP was platform extensions, but that must of got cut out. The highest priority item I think we still need to do is electrifying the OH line, which should have been done years ago. At that point I do think an underground city loop or expanding capacity at the existing rail terminus would be the best idea. All lines need to run at least 4 tph (except Grange), and the seaford and gawler line should probably get all day 10 minute max waits.
Was wondering if you would consider floating the imaginary idea of a barossa extension from the Gawler line? Since the death of the stone train from Angaston, bit's of railway infrastructure have been removed, making a revitalisation of the line impossible. (Cromers crossing in Tanunda for example)
That project chewed up most of my life in January and February this year. It better bloody be running trains by now. Fun experience to work on and made me switch career tracks.
This was all supposed to have been electrified in the 1940s...Adelaide station has been downsized from 13 platforms to 9, it can not cope with peak arrivals and departures as our population grows. Our town planners only plan for today's needs and not the future.
Hence y there's no trains to Mount Barker and Murray Bridge
Cities in China are opening around 4 metro lines per year, and we have this.
Thanks, onion cruncher.
great video! was trying to learn more about this project, glad to have found this
Thanks, I'm glad it helped you that's what I'm aiming to do here
I liked the use of a ute for Elizabeth, nicely done.
Bit of a cheap gag but I thought it was a little funny
@@AussieWirraway I hope they get this done soon.an hour on the J1 Bus in either direction to Elizabeth is not fun for personal business after work from town.
In an age where travelling between the burbs instead of the city proper; the Adelaide train system has no Adelaide station bypass, that could make a direct journey from Gawler to Noarlunga possible.
I can get from Gawler to Noarlunga in my car via the south road corridor quicker. (notice I didn't call the north south motorway, that's because it isn't!, yet!) I recon if people could get from Gawler to a locale south of the city via train, direct, that'd relieve some congestion at peak times, especially on West Terrace.
Suprised they have to shut the entire line completely for electrification. In North-west England there was a significant electrification project of suburban lines between Liverpool and Manchester when I was living in the area, and it was done mainly with weekend and overnight closures. Admittedly it slowed work down, but it did allow basic weekday daytime service to continue, which I would have thought would be a pretty big deal for Adelaide given the importance of the Gawler route.
I didn't realise Abbot's role in the debacle. We owe a lot to old Tony. The snail pace half NBN sort of fibre sort of not fibre half and half as well as Gawler line mess. I have lived in Perth before moving to Adelaide and Perth electrified their trains so much faster.
I do not use the Gawler line often but when I do it is a study in sociological/zoological variations in human behaviour and morphology.
India has already electrified 80% of their entire railway network and they are aiming for 100%.
Total network length is 67956 km.
It is nationalised.
Also, the system used is overhead wires
Absolutely pathetic that we don't have a fully electrified railway!!
And that there's no regional rail services I think is even more pathetic
Hi Aussie that may me wondering if there was a test train going to being on the Gawler line or maybe just putting wires down the pole and thanks for the Gawler electric trains I will being looking forward to that when the Gawler line is open for the Gawler rail electrification project will start
There will likely be test trains on the line by late this year, as they have started putting the OE up, but OE will be needed right into adelaide station before testing can begin
Hi, Aussie just needs to tell you the Gawler line won't open until 26.4.21 just need to tell you that but it not going to run to Gawler central it going to terminate at Mawson Lakes and on the 25.4.21 there is going to being a test train to Adelaide to Mawson Lakes and if you click on the link of Adelaide metro adelaidemetro.com.au/Announcements2/Service-updates/Gawler-rail-line-closures#Boxing%20Day and make sure you visit that one so you can see what is going on and see what line is closed and if you see where they are closing from which stations go to Adelaide metro and ask everyone Aussie but make sure you do more electric trains project.
2:54 Elizabeth, LOL THAT WAS HOLDEN, there was a Station called GMH Elizabeth it means General Motors Holden’s Elizabeth
true.all but gone now.
I have no why it's taking so long considering they aren't doing any major engineering works alongside it.
In Queensland they regularly put up new bases and poles alongside the current line while the tracks are open. Only needing a weekend closure to do the final finishing touches.
I remember the electrification of the Newport to Werribee line took years and years.
You went there, neanderthal Tony Abbott.
You didn't talk about how electric trains can typically accelerate a lot faster than their diesel counterparts and how this'll make journey times much faster.
Electrification will result in a large patronage increase - as it always has - and it will need 6-car trains in the near future (see Perth).
Thanks for the info body
They were pre2020 data between then and now no one has used it.
Yeah Tony Abbot, but state liberal gov also slowed and scrapped train and tram projects.
Will it be AC 25kv OHL or DC 750v OHL.
25Kv
With great respect. Hammering on about "cost over runs" is not useful commentary . There are so many unknowns in a big project. The price of Iron and Steel was a lot less before the housing boom brought on shortages in steel and the resultant price increases.
The Pandemic interrupted the construction schedule and that also increased the costs.
Who would want to be a trades person putting in a quote for construction in the current era?
A lot of businesses are going to go broke because of "un-foreseen" cost increases.
Indian railways reached 83% of its 68,000 kilometers of active mainline track at the end of 2022. Australia has only managed a pathetic less than 1%. If India can make it happen, what's Australia's excuse?
Great, I want to visit Adelaide now.
electrified? ours lines were electrified in 1991 and all the ones built after were also all electrified
Gawler is pronounced Ghoul-er
I sneeze at your mere $16.9m per KM -
Perth's new line is some $231m per KM - Brisbane new line is some $529m per KM - Melbourne's new line is some $1,222m per KM
to grow one needs put in the money for these improvements or you can just waste away and end up like Darwin or Hobart that don't even HAVE trains
Thats for new lines, that 16.9m pet KM is just for electrification, not a new railway line.
@@Adelaide_Transit you will find it is not JUST for "electrification" but for the trains themselves, stations redesign and new rails as well,
as the dmu rail are X lengths and electric are welded therefore your more-less creating a new line,
the other states cost blow out is tunnelling & levelling land,
Brisbane/ Melbourne more less use existing trains - Perth getting new trains
@@paulwilliams5208 22 stations are being rebuilt and upgraded (that’s a different program than GREP) The rails aren’t being rebuilt at all, the line was rebuilt in the late 2000s and early 2010s as a preparation for electrification but ipthe budget for it came from rail revival, majority of stations on the Gawler line can take 6-8 car trains, no major grade separations are occurring, the only thing occurring other than electrification is a new signalling system.
So no, it’s not like building a new railway line at all :)
@@paulwilliams5208 The C sets are just replacements for the A sets which are life expired by the time the C sets arrive, so hardly an example of "new trains" per se. Melbourne is also getting new trains to replace the time expired Comeng trains, so again hardly an example of using existing trains. Any comparisons between the costs of the Gawler line upgrade compared to what is going on in Brisbane and Melbourne is utterly pointless: the moment you start tunnelling, costs get very expensive, that is why you avoid tunnelling wherever possible.
14,000 people a day.... Is that all?
about 23k a day now I believe
thank you for this video its great for an american trying to understand aussie rail 😂
I can't get to work and stuff because the flaming trains are been electrified and they still run late
Aye he used in the vid lmao
Well the Diesel trains are far worse. I've travelled on the Belair line many times and its very slow and the diesel trains just breakdown regularly.
Great video. I have a transport channel which I recommend you subscribe if your interested in transport video. I plan on filming some bus and train videos more on there later this year. Looking forward to seeing more rail videos on your channel. Also quick question, are there potential Train line extensions for either the Belair line or Gawler line later on down the track to further on?
I've subbed and will be looking out for you videos :)
As for your question - no, I'd say we'll be waiting at least 5 years for railway extensions in Adelaide. one might happen if 2023 if Labor gets elected however.
I want to see the Belair line extended to Mount Barker, get electrified and major station upgrades at the same time. Just common sense
I think that the diesel trains have lots of character, in my opinion the electric trains are petty boring and it compares to a Queensland SMU 260, also I don’t get why Australia has not implanted 3rd rail systems, it would probably be much cheaper because there is no need for supports of the overhead wires, but I guess that the 4000 class trains can’t be converted
3rd rail wouldn't work here because A) it's DC enabled only and B) we couldn't have any at grade level crossings on our lines
3rd rail would have to be DC and there are major issues with DC electrification, notably voltage drop when too many trains are drawing power in a section, and the increased number of substations to feed the system - averaging around every 2km for DC as opposed to around 25km for AC. That is even before even considering the health and safety issues.
3 Electrification RIP BELAIR
TBH the most likely scenario for the Belair Line is probably for it to receive Battery Electric trains which are a lot cheaper
@@AussieWirraway, Are the 3000 class trains going to be electrified in the future?
@@AussieWirraway oh kay
Why did it need electricity if diesel are faster than electricity trains
Bruh imagine only just getting electric trains 40 years after QLD and idk about other states
lmao true I guess, first electrics in 2013 in SA
Sydney electrified in the 50s
@@MichaelTavares Melbourne was first city in Australia to have electric trains, 1919, just after first world war. Sydney electrified in 1926, NOT the 1950s.
@@noelhass3712 well it didn't happen all at once did it. it was a progressive roll out. I think the majority of what we'd call the Sydney suburban network was done by the 50s.
Taking forever.
I don't really see there being a prospect of SA population growing
What? Adelaide's population has grown from 1 million in 2000 to 1.3 million today. It's not exactly lightning growth but it's growing quite a lot. South Australia's population will hit 2 million by 2050 as well, there's no signs of it slowing down, the pandemic is a small dip in overseas immigration that will be gone in a few years. Adelaide's population is growing, it's growing a lot still and it's going to do more yet. Most of this growth will be in the northern suburbs too, where it will greatly benefit from the Gawler Line electrification.
@@AussieWirraway, Any city doesn't need a massive population or crazy high density to justify a good public transport system. It's time to open our minds and realise that any city including Adelaide cannot survive without high quality public transport. Adelaide currently has bad public transport which actually contributes to road congestion as buses in mixed traffic serve Adelaide CBD excessively. A hub and spoke system PT in Adelaide is totally unworkable and needs to be redesigned to a connected frequent grid. 90% of people in Adelaide drive on weekdays as a result of a lack of cross city buses, fast and frequent train services.
PT experiences in Perth, Australia are a model to inspire in improving Adelaide's struggling PT. Also, Perth is a low density city, but has the best suburban train network for an Australian capital city. There's a comprehensive long term plan to improve Perth's public transport with buses, busways, tram/ light rail and trains/ heavy rail.
It is easy to assume the SA population isn't growing when national MP's are being lost to NSW & Vic etc.. This is due to redistribution, to supply fair and equal representation of the national population overall. This doesn't mean SA's population is reducing, just that we are growing slower than other states. This is a good thing in a way; SA has a 'steady' home building & house price market, unlike Vic and NSW, where it can fluctuate violently from month to month. SA has dealt with the Covid-19 situation pretty well. I think that other states have been watching. SA is in a good place to host NSW workers, working from home (internet).
LOL...😆😆 those trains wont last long on that line... 3days and they'll destroyed.
Electric train will destroyed in anytime sooner but diesel train live forever.
😴
Tony Abbott wouldn't give us money that we had proven we couldn't manage, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
All I’ve got to say is thay wood have been better off keeping there jumbo train’s or the red hens why’s that you may ask all these questions as to upgrades is just a waste of time and money money that could be put to better use on something els but not technology why I don’t like it don’t use it and never 👎 will it’s old school for me always has and will be technology for me is a sledge hammer ok and that’s how I feel about it and see it also I tell it how I see it
With all due respect the average life span of a train is 45 years. And to get people to ride a service it has to be clean, frequent and up to date.
Now call me old fashioned but I doubt the parts for an 80 year old train are made any more, meaning that the train will have reliability issues and cleanliness issues thus driving people away from it. As it is the 3000's are exceeding their lifespan as well. These upgrades are to ensure that ridership keeps increasing.
PT is as much about physcology as it is physical services
If you also write it how you see it.... your mind must be pretty jumbled!