I've noticed a rent a segway pop up under some canvas in Glenelg near the square. Just seems to be the dumbest idea. Bikes do as much and more. You can even have e-bikes.
@@neku2741 I can afford the 50c ticket to travel around the world in a hyperloop pod, but I cant afford the $25 it costs me to travel 10km to the hyperloop embarking center
The construction costs aren't the main issue. The daily use costs are much more problematic, as you need more vehicles & more drivers than any alternative, which drives up both fuel costs & wages.
And all those tyres. BRT vs light rail is like for like - the cost of tyres vs the cost of rails, effectively. Musk's loop meanwhile, uses a LOT more tyres. And you have to haul around all that car for each person.
they are working to have the LVCC loop automated by the end of the year(2021), the cars have the systems already built it, it is just a matter of collecting data and doing safety tests, but that takes time, the drivers are hired to get the system operational as soon as possible in the least complicated way
@@coreysuffield thats just idiotic, there have been automated people mover all over the world since the 80s. some of those system have as much computing power as a flipphone.
@@coreysuffield You think building a project intended to be automated, making it not automated and then retro actively making it automated is the least complicated way of doing things? I think your confusing "complicated" with cheapest chattiest solution that they can delay indefinitely if needed.
@@guiagaston7273 Maybe we could do something like a novelty train. Those are not very large tunnels by the looks of it. You could possibly replace it with mini-busses though
@@guiagaston7273 the deep tube tunnels used in the London Underground are about the same width as the tunnels in the LA Loop. But they were mostly built 100 years ago and are problematic for evacuation.
“The greatest trick Musk ever pulled was convincing the world he was a genius” “The second greatest trick Musk ever pulled was convincing the world he is the good guy”
@@coweatsman Tesla is not his. Buddy tesla has had the leadership of elon. Without elon tesla would've been like other electric car companies. It doesn't matter if elon didn't invent electric car, or found tesla. Because what he did was still fucking bonkers
The proposed pods that carry multiple people for the loop look like a waste of glass. We don't need futurism, we need efficient and reliable designs that have already been proven.
That's why buses, trams, suburban trains and metro trains should be used for fixed line public transport, not some crazy gadgetbahn. Monorails are a gadgetbahn, but they're relatively successful in some parts of the world especially when the line is nearly or fully elevated. A monorail should be considered regular public transport as the straddle beam (ALWEG) and suspended designs are well proven in practice. The rubber wheels of monorail trains allow it to climb steep gradients unlike conventional steel railways.
@@michaeleverett1479 This has the benefit of theoretically allowing multipoint to multipoint without any transfers. It remains to be seen how merging will work.
Well, I, for one, don't doubt the ability of Tesla to build a van minibus in the slightest. Or the ability of any other car manufacturer. And it's not as if the end product of a Tesla "artist's rendition" looked A LOT more shoddy in the past, too.
@@michaeleverett1479 You ever heard of cog railways? In a university where I studied for a time, there were demonstrators of the cog systems from its heyday. In the 1920s, the "animal class" of steam locomotives, however, proved that in *many* cases, a cog system wasn't necessary; this led to the Reichsbahn Baureihe DRG BR 95. Still, there are some alpine cog railways left. With new semiconductor technology and the incredibly lightness of electric motors, it's not that big of a problem to add a cog in the middle for the steep parts to be retracted in normal operation.
I think you are discounting the fact that the tunnels underground essentially transforms a 2D transport space into a 3D space. Each level is a multiplier, like having another BRT system on top of an existing one. And with tunnels that can be dug cheaper than roads can be built, the efficiencies of scale can quickly add up.
To free Las Vegas from cars has an easy solution: let cars park outside of the city in a parking garage and let a tram carry people to the center. In Holland we have already solutions like that
OR we could Organise their cars in an: Ultra capacity condensed archieve; then transport these people on Hyper Logic Self correcting articulated units into the city. The Hyper Logic Self Correcting Articulated Units, would be RGB. I'd like $30 Billion for a pilot program.
@@joelman1989 that's a genuine reason like not even sarcasm, rich really don't like having to sit next to 'normal' and poor people, they are overly represented in your government, that's why you don't have any well-planned functional public transport in US(there are exceptions of course), they would rather spend billions digging entirely new tunnels and building even more ridiculous ideas than adopt something that is proven to work just so they don't have to interact with the plebs.
This is a good idea for the Strip. Las Vegas made its downtown Main Street pedestrian only about 25 years ago. It’s now The Fremont Street Experience. They could do the same for much of Las Vegas Blvd. Having the Las Vegas Loop in place will allow people to quickly travel from any casino to any other, eliminating cars from the surface. Trams or buses could operate along the Strip also. They would be slow, with frequent stops, but really good for sightseeing. And for tourists with tired feet.
@@francessimmonds5784 while this point can be distorted pretty easily, but there can be qualities about a person that one can like, even if that person's moral goals are warped. I don't like Hitler, but I can't say the same about his paintings, it's good work. But the guy who made it, also liked to play with poop, I don't like to play with poop. Although I still like his work. (only if it's with real paint though, Idk what this man did with his free time) Elon factually HELPED push ev's to the market, for better or worse, we can use this technology to better ourselves. Being able to have my own 'gas station' equivalent (charge station) at home is a solid win. If the law doesn't disagree, we can up-cycle old batteries, motors, upholstery materials and Avoid landfills ( if stuff is going to end up there anyway might as well use it as much as possible). With that said, I still don't like or agree with quite a few things he does and said. Extraterrestrials are real (fight me, if you dare), tunnels are a no go on earth, neuralink being bluetooth is a NIGHTMARE of a bad idea. So ya
I feel like they could very easily be fitted to the inside of the BRT tracks. But only have them turn on when it gets dark. Y'know, like regular street lights.
Wrong, it's an attempt to market HIMSELF, as he is his own brand. He needs the hype for his other project to find investors. He is litterally a human Ponzi scheme. He could litterally take a useless invention and have you think it's genius and futuristic, because ie he believes in it, it must be, right? Doesn't matter if it's true or practical. That's why he likes being called a genius philantroprist, or a personnal earth savior-jesus.
The Loops they have built so far are attempts to market The Boring Company. The Convention Center Loop proved they could deliver on a project and they could tunnel with minimal disruption at the surface. That helped them sell the Las Vegas Loop to Clark County for the low low price of Free. Free isn’t really free if it brings a lot of traffic disruption. The Las Vegas loop will be to sell full Loop systems to other cities. It will demonstrate trip times and capacity.
8:10 lol i love how 1. it blocks an entire lane to use slow lifts 2. it still has no exits or any safety features... 3. and is utterly unrealistic 9:43 not even handrails or covers. ... people walking by break their neck falling. gj
That's because it was never seriously considered, even by Elon Musk. It's a half-baked idea that is designed to look futuristic, make people think that public transportation is obsolete, and sabotage America's infrastructure upgrades. A high-speed rail or metro means fewer Teslas on the road, and he can't have that.
A proposal to take us back to the days of constant road investment. Would do nothing to improve congestion or driving times, only slow them down. Just build more transit.
Busway/ BRT systems with buses on their own right of way even at grade (3 - 5 minute frequency) with train like platforms (all door boarding, turnstiles and off board fare collection) are perfect for medium capacity applications. Yes, even the largest buses (bi articulated bus) have less capacity per unit than long trams/ light rail, but the superior stopping distance of buses make up for their high frequencies even when operating at grade. Trams/ light rail have much higher operating and maintenance costs. A long tram like those in North America can only be a 3 carriage EMU set (60 m) due to restrictions of length of the city block. Massively long trams at grade contribute to road congestion due to blockage of road intersections. Buses are competitively manufactured by hundreds of companies around the world whereas trams or trains are only manufactured by a handful of companies which are subjected to highly expensive no bid contracts. Bus manufacturers can also custom design buses with high floor platform boarding and doors on both sides of the vehicle. Electric propulsion on buses (trolleybuses of battery powered buses) with driver training on smooth bitumen can enhance the buses stability, reduce jerkiness and increase ride quality.
@@michaeleverett1479 At this point you may as well just build a proper tramway already, considering the expense of a high quality BRT systems. I'd always prefer a tramway if frequency has to be really tight in order to match capacity. 5 min frequencies and better can easily be done, if right of way and signal priority exist. Though 5 mins should be enough, otherwise consider a light metro, if crowding gets an issue. Spending to much money on infrastructure like tunnels, or elevated structures "just" to run buses doesn't seem like a great deal to me.
Musk seem to want to introduce "efficient" systems that keep rich people separate from the poor masses. God forbid you create something akin to public transport, lmao
They will be automated free taxis that run on an exclusive tunnel on over 40 stops throughout the city which you will be able to ride from point to point. The next phase is under way.
@@markharmon4963 so why not just use the money to build a BRT or better yet, an actual metro? Musk is trying to reinvent the wheel at best, and straight up scamming at worse. This sounds more of a marketing stunt rather than a genuine attemp to improve the lives of common men.
@@LautaroArgentino A BRT requires elevated tracks and set aside real estate to accommodate it. Tunnels can go in practically any arbitrary direction and not interfere with traffic, buildings, th roads, views and are quiet. TBC is making tunneling cheaper and faster. And at the end of the day it would only be a BRT. 40,000 passengers a day is far less than I expected for a BRT. The Loop carrys more than 4,000 passengers per hour. And that is with chauffeured cars. When automation is on line pod capacity is boosted by 25%. And no bloody intermittent stops.
@@markharmon4963 you can build tracks for BRT underground. It'd basically be a suboptimal metro, but if you are really that concerned about money it would work. You should probably make it a trolley, so you don't have to concern yourself with battery use. Again, Musk is trying to reinvent the wheel.
@@markharmon4963 That 4k p/hr claim is through a controlled and testing environment. The real numbers will come out when hundreds or even thousands descend on these during the height of the actually events.
I'll give it to Elon he's knowledgeable in his field namely running a business, but he knows nothing about Urban planning, or even Public transport for that matter
Billionaire with no knowledge of Urban planning, and also public transport, he just a science guy without understand of how public transport work, US has been destroyed by a capitalism and also run too much by capitalism
@@oldcowbb he learn physic, but not at scientist level, his warning about AI is just a marketing promo for his neuralink chip, and he warn the danger of AI without any research or knowledge, so he is not Tony Stark or Thomas Edison heir, he fear AI, while Tony don’t, because Tony had AI assistant in his suit
Urban planning & transport planning have a totally different set of skills when compared to a Physicist, Aerospace Engineering, Particle Physics, Laser Physics, Space Scientist, Chemist and etc. Automotive, maritime and aviation are radically different from public transport with their thinking even though all of these industries use vehicles. It's often assumed that all our transport problems particularly public transport can be easily solved by scientists just by using seeing a network of lines with some fancy technology. The wider public often see the bunch of lines on a public transport system and think it's incredibly easy; they're sadly mistaken. Designing a multi modal public transport system as a fully networked grid with good frequency across the whole metropolitan area while being cost effective are not an easy task. Politics often make improvements to public transport a long winded progress even with a straightforward extension of the network. There're lots of effort to making a good public transport system by design and consultation between politicians, urban planners and acceptance of the wider community. All scientists have no understanding in urban planning such as politics, land use planning, relevant statistics, capital costs (construction), maintenance and operating costs.
Las Vegas should built a subways serving the Vegas strip and connecting it's two airports since the strip is pretty dense and walkable. Elon Musks tunnels are terrible and not innovative.
"Elon Musks tunnels are terrible and not innovative." how do you know? they haven't even built a real one yet, you haven't even seen one yet. the LVCC is just simple local loop system to get across a convention center to save people from walking up to 45 minutes and get there in just 2-3 min a real city loop would have an array of tunnels 2x2 or 3x3 and branch of to many destinations across a city the problem with a subway is it is super expensive and it is only 2 dimensional, and it is only a sequential point to point system, and takes for ever to build out meanwhile a "City Loop" is 3 dimensional, multi-point to multi-point on demand transit(cost and time to build out are unknown to due increases in technology by the time they start actually constructing one)
If there's one city that would benefit from a light rail or Subway system it's Las Vegas. It's tons of tourists without cars. Atleast implement it around the strip itself.
Vegas has a monorail system that opened in 2004. People don't use it enough to make profitable. It is about 4 miles long and cost about $150M per mile to build back around 2000.
@@Goldsteinphoto I think a good part of the reason why that is, is due to the fact said monorail doesn't go to the airport, where most of the tourists enter the city from. I bet that it would see a lot more use if it did.
In your conclusion i missed that the solutions are denser neighborhoods, bicycle infrastructure, light rail for high capacity routes, busses for low capacity routes, regional and long distance high speed rail, as well as generally taking away space from cars and giving it to people
Cars still have some place, I mean try taking bags for a family of four on a two week holiday and not losing one of the bags on the train. If you must attack personal transport, attack it in the towns where pedestrians walk around. Cars and bikes should never have the opportunity to run into pedestrians. Bikes especially, since I know two people who've been punched by a cyclist who's then robbed them and sped off. A car barreling towards you is scary, but no one cares about a bike doing the same until you see the fist raise to the level of your face, by which its too late.
@@dafoex pedestrians are not the offenders, cars kill them and cyclists, not the other way around. Of course everyone needs to abide by traffic rules, the consequences of cars not following them are way more severe though
So, to sum up the video in a few sentences. Metros/Light Rail/Trams can carry the biggest amounts of passengers thanks to their ability to extend to 2-3+ (zero pollution most of the time) carriages, something a Bus (Rapid) System will always struggle to do. However, the Bus will always carry far more than a single car or pod will ever be able to.
On the contrary, this BRT is a joke. It is only 7.3 miles long, has only 3 stations, is mostly a concrete track overland wasting gobs of space and splitting the surrounding area and travels at an average of only 22mph, also has to negotiate traffic lights and transports only 40,000 PER DAY. Not per hour - that’s per day! And the cost of this wondrous system of slow buses? $98 million dollars. That’s $13.4m per mile and that isn’t even underground! And Aussie Wirraway goes on to laud the IndyGo Redline BRT which costs $19m per mile all above ground! This compares to the Vegas Loop which will be 29 miles long, have 51 stations, will transport at least 57,000 people PER HOUR and costs taxpayer ZERO dollars. Even if taxpayers were paying, the cost of Loop tunnels is as low as $6m per mile and cost of stations is $2m each. BRT just doesn’t compare.
I really can't stand how many of these public transit alternatives exist. Every day I learn about a new one and how it failed. Aerotrain, the other Aerotrain, 3d-printed personal pods, hyperloops, trackless light rails... It's ridiculous. Think of where we could be as a society if all the brains who are inventing these things worked on developing better light rails and bus systems!
Am I the only one that noticed but all of these "new innovative mass transportaion" vehicles are just updated buses\trains that have been used since the 1800's???
@@jimlincoln1283 Same thing people said before when he was bringing some innovation in Spacex and Tesla. It never made sense to them but now they are back to their cave. I wouldn't be shock if same things happen this time with the tunnel loop.
@@tandinwangyel1897 SpaceEx did everything Nasa did with more cost. His greatest contribution to Tesla is marketing. Tesla got more junk features but the money of its investers are the one keeping it alive.
Elon Musk is great at taking other people ideas, like the hyperloop, giving them a new cool name, and then selling them as his own. To maintain his status as a genius inventor he has to keep coming up with new ideas, like this dumb Las Vegas Loop thing which is just laughable.
I remember the hyperloop being an idea way before I heard of Elon. I first heard of it as a possibility for a transatlantic train system, where it was a maglev train in a vacuum tube tunnel, which removes almost all friction and allows it to reach supersonic speeds. Musk just gave it a brand name and said he'd build it eventually™
Can you imagine if the Vegas Loop were a government project? Can you imagine how much scrutiny it would get for "wasteful spending"? But because it was built by a supposed "entrepreneur", no one says a thing about what a dumb idea it is
@@kevinbailey8827 That doesn't say much... Sure the metro system costs 4 times as much to build when compared to this car based tunnel. But if the metro moves over four times as many people over the day. Then the metro would end up being cheaper *per person it carries.* And this isn't even mentioning the running cost of both systems.
@@vulduv In this particular case a metro would never break even based on cost per passenger or operating costs. So far, the busiest day this system has experienced was 27,000 passengers, most of those in the 8 hours that the SEMA show was open. The loop carried 27,000 passengers that day. If there had been a metro there instead, it would have carried 27,000 people. The most they expect to have is about 60,000 people per day over a 13 hour period. Either the Loop or the train would be able to handle that. They'll carry the same number of passengers, but the underground train would have cost four times as much to do it. It doesn't matter how many more the train could carry at a time, because it can only carry the number who show up. The bigger your train, the more empty it will run. In terms of operating cost, the LVCVA is paying TBC $6 million a year to operate it. Let's assume the metro costs half as much a year to operate. That means it would take 50 years to make up for the fact that the train cost at least $150 million more to build. Even if the train were absolutely free to operate, it would take 25 years to break even.
@@dafoex That bit is less significant since we have technologies that can produce energy with a smaller environmental impact, but lithium batteries and batteries in general are much harder to make clean.
The O’Bahn should absolutely be replaced with light rail at a minimum, and ideally connect with existing tram services in front of the train station. Adelaide railway station just needs a throughway and honestly a connection from the O’Bahn entry and railway station wouldn’t be exceptionally complicated, relative to how most other modern cities are much denser than Adelaide.
The loop is nothing more then a simple one way road tunnel. Hardly a solution to mass transit issues around the world. Only trams, metro and high speed railway combined with high frequency bus transport are the solution.
For people living in distant parts of the world with their social media flooded with fancy lies and stuff, this is really eye opening and informative, great work👍
No, it was built underground because that is what the call for bids defined and rightly so. Surface traffic in Las Vegas is hell and contributing 4000 rides an hour would have made it that much worse.
@@markharmon4963 Does Las Vegas have a tram/light rail? That would completely replace large parts of the surface traffic and may make anything underground redundant.
@@Alias_Anybody Maybe. Maybe the planners decided it would be easier to make a dedicated slim tunnel than to set all the alignments of a rail and upset traffic for years and dedicate all of the road service and traffic signals just to have a train that gets stuck in traffic and would have to demo the ground floor lobby of four exhibition centers in order to point to point people where they wanted. I was not in the room when they made that decision. All I know is they asked for an underground system.
@@markharmon4963 1. Electric trams are older than the damn city of Las Vegas. Not having one in the first place is a huge oversight and a testament to persistent stupidity. 2. They won't get stuck in traffic if they get at least two lanes just for themself. Those two could offer a drastically higher capacity than two car lanes. That's how it's done everywhere as long as you have at least 4 lanes total without having to tear down historical buildings or something. 3. If it HAS to be underground, make a Subway, not a stupid car tunnel. Though a Subway without proper bus- and tram-lines is not ideal.
so he made a bus lane, underground, filled it with lower capacity vehicles, and that's supposed to solve traffic? Does Elon know about this ancient technology called Tha TrAiN?
When Musk tell something is "personalized" it simply means "expensive that only rich people could afford". Once you consider his tunnels would only run for the rich, then the rationale behind the project becomes clear.
The cost to ride in the Vegas loop will be about the same as the cost for an Uber. $5 to $20, depending on the distance. Per car, not per person. If you can afford an Uber, you can ride the Vegas Loop, Mr. Moneybags! Loops in other cities will set their own rates, and they may choose to subsidize those fares as they currently do for metro fares and other public transportation. That could make the loop as cheap for passengers as a subway.
I tell u wut playa, that obahn works bloody brilliantly for an aging piece of infrastructure. It can get me from TTP to CBD faster during peak hour than driving down northeast road or lower northeast road. My biggest gripe with the Obahn is that the way services are organized on it leaves a bit to be desired as far as being intuitive for someone unfamiliar. More specifically it’s too easy to catch the wrong bus relative to where you’re going. Real world example, I needed to get to the city and didn’t want to drive in and deal with the hassle of finding parking. So I got to the closest interchange and caught the bus into town arriving soonest. Unfortunately for me that happened to be a bus that went on a circuitous route before getting back onto the obahn costing me valuable time and making me late for something. I later learnt that there is a particular stop for the busses going express to town. But there was no signage or anything to make that clear. It annoys me greatly that not all the obahn oriented bus routes are designed to radiate outwards from their obahn path which would better serve the suburbs surrounding interchanges. Some routes go on a suburban jaunt between interchanges for reasons I do not fully understand. I’d much prefer the bus stop closest to my place be part of a route that can go to the nearest interchange that’s also on the way to avoid back tracking and then for that bus to continue on the obahn to town. At present it’s more efficient to drive to an interchange because the buses that will get me to an interchange not only slowly take a winding route there but they also back track to an interchange that’s more out of the way creating more distance to make up but also I have to get off that bus at the interchange and then wait for a bus that will get me express to town. That just seems ridiculous when with a little bit of lateral thinking they could come up with something better by better utilizing what they already have. Also that Vegas loop looks lame as hell. Musky promised a lot and delivered bugger all for the 50 plus million that all cost.
Since the route is so short, it should be seen as a test route, as there have been other (new) solutions for transport. Some were failures, others revolutionised. I think this is normal. I see the following Options: 1. the whole thing is discontinued after a certain time (The Skybus Pittsbugh; M-Bahn Berlin) 2. it continues as an isolated operation, but does not really spread (suspension railways along the lines of the Wuppertal suspension railway). 3. the concept is improved and the improved solution spreads (Londen Underground in steam operation) 4. it spreads almost unchanged (railways in general; motorways)
Thanks for the video. I see it was made a few years ago. Being of Dutch back ground, but living in Adelaide, I see so many mistakes in our roads, footpaths, bike paths. We are always 40 years behind everything in this country. The o Bahn was started in 1985. What is the life of the o Bahn before it will need to be replaced. Hopefully, a smart government ( not many of those around) will replace with trams. Now that battery operated trams exist overseas , it could make a significant improvement. The city is terrible with all the buses. All the fumes and noise. Buses are such a terrible form of transport.
No there will not be speeds fast enough to make that likely to happen. And the tunnel is ventilated. It could be a simple solution to plumb in fire suppression equipment.
@@markharmon4963 *battery* accident. And the low speed is a whole separate problem for it that only makes it even worse in comparison to other public transit systems.
@@EgorKaskader I think the battery fires are not as common as people think. They are rare. I good foam fire suppression system would be a reasonable requirement. I know the current system is well ventilated.
@@markharmon4963 And the people in the car, just let them die? Besides, you know what the problem is with the battery fires? They keep restarting. And if a freaking subway system *designed to double as a nuclear shelter* cannot pull out all the smoke, then I highly doubt a small tunnel without any ventilation shafts or filtering equipment rated to keep the air clear from nuclear fallout for a whole week would be able to pull all of it away. There's also no good way to *escape* the tunnel if the fire starts aside from just hoping the signalling still works and the vehicles can move, which for *any* European tunnel system would be unacceptable. This goes for subways, light rail subways, and even just car tunnels. Even the tiny system of the Vegas Loop shows the problem, but if you scale it up to an actual public transit system? Yeah, good luck. There's also the simple problem of the fire inside the small tunnel potentially damaging the ventilation itself, and there not being any way to vent smoke *outside* the stations, putting passengers there at risk, and there not being any fire survival shelters as mandatory for car tunnels above certain lengths, varied by country, but always required.
@@EgorKaskader I think the foam is an effective suppressant. The tunnels are ventilated. Public car tunnels have far greater risks. This will only have automated vehicles on a closed system. I do not think either of us advocate closing public tunnels.
A patch that is designed to be efficient by removing all safety features. The Boring Company has pretty much designed a multi-car pile-up tunnel, with no escape routes. Great job, Elon.
For a cautionary tale of Buses operating on a guideway consider the case of the city of Nancy in France, where they are tearing out the busway and installing light rail. The guided busway had much lower initial costs but the concept caused premature pavement and tire wear, and suspension component failure.
Busway's are best used where there isn't high enough capacity to justify light rail. We have one in my area which is pretty much designed to service schools. This is great as during peak times it takes a lot of buses off our roads for a 31 km stretch and links them directly to two major rail stations. it started off servicing just 1570 passengers per week in 2003. Even now it's hard to justify upgrading to light rail when it's just 30,000 riders per week.
High Frequency is a good thing. Passenger demand responds much more to reduced waiting time on Metro-like (turn up and go) service than to a similar reduction to the in vehicle component of the journey - as waiting time has a higher 'generalised' cost for most passengers. I would suspect that the bus service will carry substantially more passengers with (say) 30 buses per hour, than a rail service along the same corridor offering 4 trains per hour. Both clearly much better than 30 cars per hour going from one side of an exhibition centre to the other at a cost of $50 million plus though!
Depends on the demand, but an advantage of some of the new automated light rail systems is that you can run smaller trains in general, and even smaller trains off-peak hours. A new system being built in Montreal will have trains passing every 4 to 5 minutes at any time of the day.
The next time one of these projects comes up for bids, the people who could have done it better and cheaper need to get a proposal together and submit it! Otherwise The Boring is going to have the lowest bid and the winning proposal.
I'm not usually a fan of BRTs, but I'll make an exception for the O-Bahn as it actually works *really* frikkin well. Replacing it with a tram extension sounds good, but when you think about the number of direct, no-interchange journeys that the O-Bahm provides high quality service too, I actually think it should stay. The only thing I'd really like to see done is for it to be fitted with electric catenary so that we can convert the buses along the routes using it to trolley buses (with modest batteries for the final few KMs of their route). It's more sustainable and cheaper in the long run than using electric buses with gigantic batteries, and it's proven popular in Europe for extending their trolley systems.
It's so fun to know that the system from Elon could very easily be rebuilt to a metro or BRT (don't know if the tunnels have the space for busses though)
Agree with everything you said here, apart from the Heathrow Pods being a failure. Their purpose is to transport you between Terminal 5 and one of it's small car parks. They don't need to serve lots of people a day, just the few people every hour that are arriving and departing and have parked in said car park. So in that aspect, I think they do are a success. And that's coming from someone who's been on the pods. But it is true that personalised rapid transit just never works when you're talking about it in the sense of an actual commuter transport system.
You could maybe call the pods a failure in that they haven't built more of them. If it was game changing you'd have thought they'd made more routes for more pods from more car parks to more terminals. Still, I think they are much more successful than anything else that's attempted to replace the car's niche for personal rapid transit.
@@dafoex Yeah, I agree. But for solely the purpose it serves at LHR T5, I think it does the job perfectly. But the idea as a whole is a bit of a flop, yes.
i am glad i live near a BRT as when it opened in 2015 it cut 15-30 minutes of journey time on certain bus routes as most of the routes got replaced or just removed when it opened as the BRT routes served similar routes expect using the guided busway
Amazing content! Elon Musk knows his stuff with Tesla and SpaceX but in other areas, he's just as clueless as anyone else - The problem isn't that he's wrong about public transportation and COVID-19 and baby names etc. No, the problem is that he is taken seriously simply because he's rich and famous and those that try to counter his ideas and plans with counter-arguments are met with disapproval by Musk's fans.
He doesn't even know his stuff regarding those. SpaceX consepts about mars colonization are extremely unrealistic and missing key elements. Tesla is pretty much entirely marketed on providing eventually Full Self Driving, and they aren't even close to achiving that. Their sensor array isn't sufficient for self driving (and they are removing radar). Having test driven both Tesla and VW Id3 (in Europe obviously) it was very clear Tesla was less aware of it's surrounding and noticably missinterperted multiple road features. While VW might not have been even trying to interpret all of them eather, it also didn't try to drive us to every bus stop. If a Tesla can't make a smooth turn on motorway exit ramp, on pristine road with fresh lane markers on clear day, or read a speed limit sign on straight motorway, it's nowhere near truly self driving.
@@Ruinwyn I’m starting to think self driving is pointless. Do we have to be constantly entertained to the point that we need movies and video games during a car ride?
@@Goldsteinphoto the sensors are still the same. If the car doesn't know where the road/lane is it can't drive itself. If it can't read the speedlimits it can't drive itself. Are you claiming they haven't kept the AP up to date regarding these basic features? If the cameras miss the speedlimit sign, they miss the speedlimit sign. Doesn't matter if it's AP or FSD. That should only determine what it does with the info. And if they miss 2 signs on straight highway, there is no chance it's any better at detecting them in residential areas.
I think they should focus on cheap tunnels. There are several uses for them, like bike lanes and infrastructure cables. A small tram in those tunnels, connected to the major subway lines, could be very cool.
I havent been there since I was a child, but anyone here from Eastern Europe remembert those old buses that run through town and had like atrain antena or wire above ? Troleybuz or something ?
@@AussieWirraway, You should a video about converting the Adelaide O'bahn guided busway to train/ heavy rail. While the North East O'bahn busway is one of the best public transport services in Adelaide, it fails miserably when large volume buses during peak hour from the O'bahn tunnel enter onto Grenfell to Currie Street. Putting O'bahn buses in a tunnel under Grenfell to Currie Street to increase reliability, capacity and frequency defeats the purpose of the buses flexibility. A bus only tunnel with 2 lanes per direction like sections of Brisbane's busway under Brisbane's CBD is prohibitively expensive in while being totally outclassed in capacity with a long train in a tunnel.
Adelaide Metro's official website (see link below) shows all the possible bus lines operating only the O'bahn guided busway. Some of these O'bahn bus lines only operate in the morning and afternoon peak hours with high passenger volumes. In other times, passengers are forced to change buses to from the off peak O'bahn bus lines and other bus lines to continue along the concrete guideway into Adelaide CBD. adelaidemetro.com.au/Timetables2/Special-services/Adelaide-O-Bahn The link below shows all stopping patterns and frequency for the entire O'bahn. This link shows that the O'bahn busway with buses branching away from the busway stations are a complicated system with low frequency buses in mixed traffic which hurts potential passengers. railmaps.com.au/routedetails.php?TableSelect=5092
Trains are way more efficient than buses. But try explaining to a south australian that a train carries more passengers than a bus. Their reply would be "Well we'll just have 10 buses which equals one train"............but they just don't get it do they? And they say the Irish are dimwitted.
BRTs are often cheaper to build than trams, but in TCO, trams are cheaper. Trams last longer (wheels, engine etc), they can accommodate more people, and be coupled in rush hours to raise capacity even further. They can be linked with light rail or full sized railways and use their tracks too. And in town when they use their own tracks, the track bed can be filled with grass improving the city climate. And they can be made even quieter than electric buses.
The biggest bottleneck in this system would not be the tunnel itself but the way in/way out. It looks like one transfer to and from road level would take at least 30 seconds, more realistically about a minute. So the stations would need to be either every 20m (which would mean that the whole tunnel is one big continuous station) or the whole system would be one huge traffic jam.
Another fundamental bottleneck is the turnaround time. All public transport systems suffer from this, but the Loop suffers more due to the vehicles' small capacity. If each vehicle holds 3 people comfortably, and the turnaround time is 30 seconds (that's likely to be a minute or longer in many cases), you can transport 6 people per minute per car. That equates to 360 people per hour, and you have five bays per direction, so you get 1800 people per hour. That's the _absolute maximum_ number of people you can transport, even if the cars travelled at 99.9% the speed of light.
It will also be a showpiece. People from all over the world will experience the Loop. They’ll see first hand how quickly they can get from one place to another. Some of them will be part of local governments considering mass transit options. TBC will be able to give them details such as actual capacity and construction costs.
Except for the fact that this o-Bahn is a joke compared to the just approved Vegas Loop. this Adelaide O-Bahn video had me laughing. It is only 7.3 miles long, has only 3 stations, is mostly a concrete track overland wasting gobs of space and splitting the surrounding area and travels at an average of only 22mph, also has to negotiate traffic lights and transports only 40,000 PER DAY. Not per hour - that’s per day! And the cost of this wondrous system of slow buses? $98 million dollars. That’s $13.4m per mile and that isn’t even underground! And Aussie Wirraway goes on to laud the IndyGo Redline BRT which costs $19m per mile all above ground! This compares to the Vegas Loop which will be 29 miles long, have 51 stations, will transport at least 57,000 people PER HOUR and costs taxpayer ZERO dollars. Even if taxpayers were paying, the cost of Loop tunnels is as low as $6m per mile and cost of stations is $2m each. BRT just doesn’t compare.
They have this from the surrounding towns and villages into Cambridge in the UK. I've been on it, it's good. All the busses have air con and leather seats and run on biodiesel and there's a cycle path through a nature reserve with lakes and planting next to it the entire length for miles.
That sounds awesome. So what does that have to do with a convention hall in a city street crowded with a surge of conventioneers and their roads cannot accommodate them? You build a dedicated loop underneath that can drop people at a station directly underneath the middle of the hall. There is no comparison to the two problems.
The loop is only possible in the US because it fullfills the most important wish of Americans: to stay safe in their cars without getting in contact with other americans. Those could be poor, razy or violent.
@@Goldsteinphoto There is one in New York, one in Seattle and one in Washington I think. Busses can only be used by poor people, and, yes there is one historic cable car in San Francisco.
The Las Vegas request for bids asked for an underground system. Those buses are very expensive and when you enter them you must stop at every stop along the way. The LV Loop allows you to share a vehicle with others going to the same location. This is important as the convention center is only the first stage of a city wide project with 40 or more stops.
The worst part about the Vegas loop is that the problem it was supposed to solve is a 15 minute walk from one end of the convention centre to the other
Loop: speed is slower by roughly 3/4 of the proposed speed; the cost is roughly ten times higher than proposed; passenger capacity at the absolute mathematical possible capacity, assuming FULL vehicles in every single instance is max 1/2 of proposed capacity; vehicles are not driver-less so there are WAGES to be paid for drivers, increasing the cost massively due to the low capacity of each vehicle (maximum of four passengers per car, if they are all very slim AND fit three into the read bench; three passengers max with an average American); saftey measures are NOT built into the loop at any point (so the cost should go up should there even be a sprinkler system added); NO ventilation for a longer tunnel as the current tunnel is so short it can rely on air circulation by convection, making the costs explode again; it is a single lane, one way system barely wide or tall enough for a standard Tesla car but not even their cybertruck would fit into the tunnel, much less ANY other larger vechicle. Should there EVER be ANY kind of accident, or medical emergency the tunnels would be blocked by the cars traveling into it but being unable to reasonably reverse or bypass the stuck vehicle; much less would the tunnel be able to accomodate an ambulance or other rescue vehicle. Oh, and the Tesla cars have to be charged regularly increasing the number of vehicles required to keep up the maximum capacity proposed. Not like with trains that - gasp - get their electricity from a power rail... wow what a novel concept... Yeah, I see why it is worse... 😂😋
there is a plan to have the LVCC loop automated by the end of the year, in the recent test they achieved the expected capacity, there is room for people on foot to walk past a stalled car, the cars in front of the stalled vehicle would drive forward and the cars behind would reverse out, why would there be need to "bypass", they have vehicles capable of pulling a vehicle out of the tunnel there is safety systems in place, you don't the think the LVCC had other Las Vegas safety officials involved? when it will be publicly accessible Teslas are very well proven, they can charge them in 30 minutes and run for hours(if not all day) at the tunnel speeds
@@coreysuffield Yepp, and there has been a 'plan' to travel up to 150 mph... ...with 16 people per fully automated pod... ...in much longer tunnels... How many of those 'plans' have been achieved? ...still in a single lane, one way tunnel... How would you have the cars reverse back out through a tunnel that is blocked when Americans can't even do that on multi-lane highways that are blocked? Much less in a tunnel. Ever seen a Tesla crash? Yeah? They burn HOT... really, really hot. That stuff literally melts concrete. There is currently no system in place that is able to stop such a battery fire. These fires on open-air roads are simply allowed to burn out. In a tunnel that will spell disaster due the extremely high oxygen consumption, plus the smoke that the non-existant ventilation system will fail to extract. How quickly do you believe that people will be boarding these Teslas crawling in and out of their parking spots? Faster than a metro? If you say yes, I'll just scoff laugh at your claims. Your claims of having achieved the expected capacity is definitely wrong. It was the adjusted and LOWER expected capacity, definitely NOT the assumed 4400 peope per hour as advertised in the beginning. Which, no matter how you twist and turn the fact, is roughly 50 times lower than a well developed metro system at even medium capacity. At much lower cost, due to the much better passengers per driver ratio. Assuming there ever will be reliable automation. Which I have my serious doubts within the foreseeable future. BTW: there are fully automatic light rail systems in place in multiple countries that have worked reliably for decades by now. Why not implement those?
Las Vegas can definitely built a bus route right through their convention center building. Lmao These people thinking they got it all figured out. What a hilarity.
As a causal user of the Adelaide O-Barn I must say we should be investing more money into it and expand its services. I understand the reason for it as the eastern suburbs of Adelaide don’t have access to trains but BRT is great and should be made north and south of Adelaide also.
I didn't know about those busses. Canberra just got super expensive lite rail. Elon is a knob head pretending to invent new tech which its not and also useless. Nice video mate. 👍🤓
This is honestly so cool. I am shocked I have never heard about an o-bahn. My favorite thing about it is that it has benefits of both worlds, buses and trams. It is fast and separated from the traffic like a tram, but the infrastructure is (probably) easier to construct and maintain, and it can drive on the rest of the roads, or in parts, where the tracks haven't been laid yet. I think it's just brilliant! Thanks for letting me know.
It’s a Bus Rapid Transit system - without the Bus or the Rapid...
and it's barely got the 'transit' part... the loop is a 1 mile distance. 10-15 minute walk.
without the transit too really
And without all the gross poor people.
@@Shadowdncer don’t bet on it, snotty.
@@madsam0320 sir, would you be interested in a sprinkling of sarcasm?
For those of us old enough to remember when Segway was supposed to "revolutionize transportation", Musk's loop feels like deja vu.
At least the segways didn't cost a city government 50 million dollars
I've noticed a rent a segway pop up under some canvas in Glenelg near the square. Just seems to be the dumbest idea. Bikes do as much and more. You can even have e-bikes.
At least Segway did SOMETHING
what about Dip n' Dots - is it still the ice cream of the future?
feels like the monorail thing on the simpsons.... everything.
Samething going on with people drooling over hyperloop when they should just be building highspeed rail instead
Almost like that was elons plan all along
People will call Elon Pro-China
its for rich people to use, rich people refuse to use trains like us plebs
@@neku2741 I can afford the 50c ticket to travel around the world in a hyperloop pod, but I cant afford the $25 it costs me to travel 10km to the hyperloop embarking center
Americans will literally avoid building railways like it’s the plague, what did you expect
The construction costs aren't the main issue. The daily use costs are much more problematic, as you need more vehicles & more drivers than any alternative, which drives up both fuel costs & wages.
And all those tyres. BRT vs light rail is like for like - the cost of tyres vs the cost of rails, effectively.
Musk's loop meanwhile, uses a LOT more tyres. And you have to haul around all that car for each person.
_Trollybuses_
they are working to have the LVCC loop automated by the end of the year(2021), the cars have the systems already built it, it is just a matter of collecting data and doing safety tests, but that takes time, the drivers are hired to get the system operational as soon as possible in the least complicated way
@@coreysuffield thats just idiotic, there have been automated people mover all over the world since the 80s. some of those system have as much computing power as a flipphone.
@@coreysuffield You think building a project intended to be automated, making it not automated and then retro actively making it automated is the least complicated way of doing things?
I think your confusing "complicated" with cheapest chattiest solution that they can delay indefinitely if needed.
there's one upside to the boring company, when everyone realizes how impressively stupid it is we can use the tunnels for metro
They are waaaaay to small for that
@@guiagaston7273 I mean there's metros that are similar sizes depends on what exact size they go for in the end
@@afgor1088 you know of metros that are as small as model Xs? because that is what fits in the tunnel under the convention center.
@@guiagaston7273 Maybe we could do something like a novelty train. Those are not very large tunnels by the looks of it.
You could possibly replace it with mini-busses though
@@guiagaston7273 the deep tube tunnels used in the London Underground are about the same width as the tunnels in the LA Loop. But they were mostly built 100 years ago and are problematic for evacuation.
“The greatest trick Musk ever pulled was convincing the world he was a genius”
“The second greatest trick Musk ever pulled was convincing the world he is the good guy”
Elon's solution appeals to the rich and elite that doesn't want to mix with public transport peasant.
Disagree. His greatest trick was innovation which brought forth progress the likes of which haven't been seem before
Genius or not, good guy or not, the guy is making change to the world and went from average to one of the richest people alive
@@arnavrawat9864 He never actually invented anything. He's only grab the limelight for his own glory. The Tesla is not his for the credit.
@@coweatsman Tesla is not his. Buddy tesla has had the leadership of elon. Without elon tesla would've been like other electric car companies.
It doesn't matter if elon didn't invent electric car, or found tesla. Because what he did was still fucking bonkers
The proposed pods that carry multiple people for the loop look like a waste of glass. We don't need futurism, we need efficient and reliable designs that have already been proven.
That's why buses, trams, suburban trains and metro trains should be used for fixed line public transport, not some crazy gadgetbahn. Monorails are a gadgetbahn, but they're relatively successful in some parts of the world especially when the line is nearly or fully elevated. A monorail should be considered regular public transport as the straddle beam (ALWEG) and suspended designs are well proven in practice.
The rubber wheels of monorail trains allow it to climb steep gradients unlike conventional steel railways.
@@michaeleverett1479 This has the benefit of theoretically allowing multipoint to multipoint without any transfers. It remains to be seen how merging will work.
Hey dont you want to see all that white monotone tunnel from the inside, in all its mediocre glory
Well, I, for one, don't doubt the ability of Tesla to build a van minibus in the slightest.
Or the ability of any other car manufacturer.
And it's not as if the end product of a Tesla "artist's rendition" looked A LOT more shoddy in the past, too.
@@michaeleverett1479 You ever heard of cog railways? In a university where I studied for a time, there were demonstrators of the cog systems from its heyday.
In the 1920s, the "animal class" of steam locomotives, however, proved that in *many* cases, a cog system wasn't necessary; this led to the Reichsbahn Baureihe DRG BR 95. Still, there are some alpine cog railways left.
With new semiconductor technology and the incredibly lightness of electric motors, it's not that big of a problem to add a cog in the middle for the steep parts to be retracted in normal operation.
Trains and Busses: **look at Loop and Hyperloop**
Trains to Busses: "Look what they need to mimic a fraction of our power"
I think you are discounting the fact that the tunnels underground essentially transforms a 2D transport space into a 3D space. Each level is a multiplier, like having another BRT system on top of an existing one. And with tunnels that can be dug cheaper than roads can be built, the efficiencies of scale can quickly add up.
@@procrastination168 Have you ever heard of a Metro or Subway as they are also called? xDDD
@@procrastination168 You can have a multilevel train/subway system too.
The Busses, They be Bussin'.
@@procrastination168 found the guy who has never been on a subway system
To free Las Vegas from cars has an easy solution: let cars park outside of the city in a parking garage and let a tram carry people to the center. In Holland we have already solutions like that
OR we could
Organise their cars in an: Ultra capacity condensed archieve; then transport these people on Hyper Logic Self correcting articulated units into the city. The Hyper Logic Self Correcting Articulated Units, would be RGB.
I'd like $30 Billion for a pilot program.
But we are American. Buses and trains are socialist. Along with free healthcare and apparently common sense ideas.
@@joelman1989 that's a genuine reason like not even sarcasm, rich really don't like having to sit next to 'normal' and poor people, they are overly represented in your government, that's why you don't have any well-planned functional public transport in US(there are exceptions of course), they would rather spend billions digging entirely new tunnels and building even more ridiculous ideas than adopt something that is proven to work just so they don't have to interact with the plebs.
They are doing this in the UK too in some cities. Called Park and Ride.
This is a good idea for the Strip. Las Vegas made its downtown Main Street pedestrian only about 25 years ago. It’s now The Fremont Street Experience. They could do the same for much of Las Vegas Blvd.
Having the Las Vegas Loop in place will allow people to quickly travel from any casino to any other, eliminating cars from the surface.
Trams or buses could operate along the Strip also. They would be slow, with frequent stops, but really good for sightseeing. And for tourists with tired feet.
Musk fans can't take this without tears. Great video, mate
I'm a Musk fan, and I agree with this video. Cheers m8
@@jonnupe1645 you’re pretty damn rare
@@JJ-yz6xe I'm the wrong 1% lol
Jon Nupe how can you still be a fan? He's nothing but a grifter, a con man. This is a joke and cost millions.
@@francessimmonds5784 while this point can be distorted pretty easily, but there can be qualities about a person that one can like, even if that person's moral goals are warped.
I don't like Hitler, but I can't say the same about his paintings, it's good work. But the guy who made it, also liked to play with poop, I don't like to play with poop. Although I still like his work. (only if it's with real paint though, Idk what this man did with his free time)
Elon factually HELPED push ev's to the market, for better or worse, we can use this technology to better ourselves. Being able to have my own 'gas station' equivalent (charge station) at home is a solid win. If the law doesn't disagree, we can up-cycle old batteries, motors, upholstery materials and Avoid landfills ( if stuff is going to end up there anyway might as well use it as much as possible).
With that said, I still don't like or agree with quite a few things he does and said. Extraterrestrials are real (fight me, if you dare), tunnels are a no go on earth, neuralink being bluetooth is a NIGHTMARE of a bad idea.
So ya
Can we talk about the needless RGB that these "loops" have everywhere?
They had planned to only have them on some of the time, but the passengers seem to like them.
They don’t affect the operation of the system.
But where can you put all those cute color changing lights on a BRT system? Clearly, you just don’t get it.... 🤣
You could just slap some neons on your bus and bam
make the stoplights and blinkers 10x it's original size
I feel like they could very easily be fitted to the inside of the BRT tracks. But only have them turn on when it gets dark. Y'know, like regular street lights.
It is an attempt at marketing Teslas. That's it.
Wrong, it's an attempt to market HIMSELF, as he is his own brand. He needs the hype for his other project to find investors. He is litterally a human Ponzi scheme.
He could litterally take a useless invention and have you think it's genius and futuristic, because ie he believes in it, it must be, right? Doesn't matter if it's true or practical. That's why he likes being called a genius philantroprist, or a personnal earth savior-jesus.
@@ouicertes9764 He's a modern day PT Barnum, who he has mobs of fanboys defending his stupid antics.
The Loops they have built so far are attempts to market The Boring Company.
The Convention Center Loop proved they could deliver on a project and they could tunnel with minimal disruption at the surface. That helped them sell the Las Vegas Loop to Clark County for the low low price of Free. Free isn’t really free if it brings a lot of traffic disruption.
The Las Vegas loop will be to sell full Loop systems to other cities. It will demonstrate trip times and capacity.
8:10 lol i love how
1. it blocks an entire lane to use slow lifts
2. it still has no exits or any safety features...
3. and is utterly unrealistic
9:43 not even handrails or covers. ... people walking by break their neck falling. gj
Good thing they are not building those.
@@kevinbailey8827 they did one prototype.
Ofc it's too insanely stupid to get a pass. Sadly much more got one...
That's because it was never seriously considered, even by Elon Musk. It's a half-baked idea that is designed to look futuristic, make people think that public transportation is obsolete, and sabotage America's infrastructure upgrades. A high-speed rail or metro means fewer Teslas on the road, and he can't have that.
A proposal to take us back to the days of constant road investment. Would do nothing to improve congestion or driving times, only slow them down. Just build more transit.
Busway/ BRT systems with buses on their own right of way even at grade (3 - 5 minute frequency) with train like platforms (all door boarding, turnstiles and off board fare collection) are perfect for medium capacity applications. Yes, even the largest buses (bi articulated bus) have less capacity per unit than long trams/ light rail, but the superior stopping distance of buses make up for their high frequencies even when operating at grade. Trams/ light rail have much higher operating and maintenance costs. A long tram like those in North America can only be a 3 carriage EMU set (60 m) due to restrictions of length of the city block. Massively long trams at grade contribute to road congestion due to blockage of road intersections. Buses are competitively manufactured by hundreds of companies around the world whereas trams or trains are only manufactured by a handful of companies which are subjected to highly expensive no bid contracts. Bus manufacturers can also custom design buses with high floor platform boarding and doors on both sides of the vehicle. Electric propulsion on buses (trolleybuses of battery powered buses) with driver training on smooth bitumen can enhance the buses stability, reduce jerkiness and increase ride quality.
@@michaeleverett1479 At this point you may as well just build a proper tramway already, considering the expense of a high quality BRT systems. I'd always prefer a tramway if frequency has to be really tight in order to match capacity. 5 min frequencies and better can easily be done, if right of way and signal priority exist. Though 5 mins should be enough, otherwise consider a light metro, if crowding gets an issue. Spending to much money on infrastructure like tunnels, or elevated structures "just" to run buses doesn't seem like a great deal to me.
Musk seem to want to introduce "efficient" systems that keep rich people separate from the poor masses. God forbid you create something akin to public transport, lmao
@@Sizifus Who wants to take the bus and train with all the weird people filling it?
@@Antiyoukai Who would want to ride a car alone with a crazy driver?
Bruh, it's just taxi's on a private road with RGB lights.
They will be automated free taxis that run on an exclusive tunnel on over 40 stops throughout the city which you will be able to ride from point to point. The next phase is under way.
@@markharmon4963 so why not just use the money to build a BRT or better yet, an actual metro?
Musk is trying to reinvent the wheel at best, and straight up scamming at worse. This sounds more of a marketing stunt rather than a genuine attemp to improve the lives of common men.
@@LautaroArgentino A BRT requires elevated tracks and set aside real estate to accommodate it. Tunnels can go in practically any arbitrary direction and not interfere with traffic, buildings, th roads, views and are quiet. TBC is making tunneling cheaper and faster. And at the end of the day it would only be a BRT. 40,000 passengers a day is far less than I expected for a BRT. The Loop carrys more than 4,000 passengers per hour. And that is with chauffeured cars. When automation is on line pod capacity is boosted by 25%. And no bloody intermittent stops.
@@markharmon4963 you can build tracks for BRT underground.
It'd basically be a suboptimal metro, but if you are really that concerned about money it would work. You should probably make it a trolley, so you don't have to concern yourself with battery use.
Again, Musk is trying to reinvent the wheel.
@@markharmon4963 That 4k p/hr claim is through a controlled and testing environment. The real numbers will come out when hundreds or even thousands descend on these during the height of the actually events.
I'll give it to Elon he's knowledgeable in his field namely running a business, but he knows nothing about Urban planning, or even Public transport for that matter
Why would he? He's a billionaire, he doesn't care about us commoners
Billionaire with no knowledge of Urban planning, and also public transport, he just a science guy without understand of how public transport work, US has been destroyed by a capitalism and also run too much by capitalism
@@curious5887 he is no science guy please not even engineer
@@oldcowbb he learn physic, but not at scientist level, his warning about AI is just a marketing promo for his neuralink chip, and he warn the danger of AI without any research or knowledge, so he is not Tony Stark or Thomas Edison heir, he fear AI, while Tony don’t, because Tony had AI assistant in his suit
Urban planning & transport planning have a totally different set of skills when compared to a Physicist, Aerospace Engineering, Particle Physics, Laser Physics, Space Scientist, Chemist and etc. Automotive, maritime and aviation are radically different from public transport with their thinking even though all of these industries use vehicles. It's often assumed that all our transport problems particularly public transport can be easily solved by scientists just by using seeing a network of lines with some fancy technology. The wider public often see the bunch of lines on a public transport system and think it's incredibly easy; they're sadly mistaken.
Designing a multi modal public transport system as a fully networked grid with good frequency across the whole metropolitan area while being cost effective are not an easy task. Politics often make improvements to public transport a long winded progress even with a straightforward extension of the network. There're lots of effort to making a good public transport system by design and consultation between politicians, urban planners and acceptance of the wider community. All scientists have no understanding in urban planning such as politics, land use planning, relevant statistics, capital costs (construction), maintenance and operating costs.
Las Vegas should built a subways serving the Vegas strip and connecting it's two airports since the strip is pretty dense and walkable. Elon Musks tunnels are terrible and not innovative.
"Elon Musks tunnels are terrible and not innovative." how do you know? they haven't even built a real one yet, you haven't even seen one yet. the LVCC is just simple local loop system to get across a convention center to save people from walking up to 45 minutes and get there in just 2-3 min
a real city loop would have an array of tunnels 2x2 or 3x3 and branch of to many destinations across a city
the problem with a subway is it is super expensive and it is only 2 dimensional, and it is only a sequential point to point system, and takes for ever to build out
meanwhile a "City Loop" is 3 dimensional, multi-point to multi-point on demand transit(cost and time to build out are unknown to due increases in technology by the time they start actually constructing one)
@@coreysuffield Yep.
@@coreysuffield a single point a to point b loop cost more that any other system possible or imaginary. A real loop would not exist
@@coreysuffield LOL. Go back to electrek.co and peddle your BS there.
@@coreysuffield I know all these people on RUclips 🤣🤣. Well I've Google it and I road a bus to school 🙋♂️.
How the shivering hell do you name a bus company "IndyGo" - and then have not a drop of blue on the vehicles? :)
Probably because the budget didn't specify Blue Paint.
Or purple. I'm pretty sure indigo is more purple than blue
If there's one city that would benefit from a light rail or Subway system it's Las Vegas. It's tons of tourists without cars. Atleast implement it around the strip itself.
And it’s all centralized.
Vegas has a monorail system that opened in 2004. People don't use it enough to make profitable.
It is about 4 miles long and cost about $150M per mile to build back around 2000.
@@Goldsteinphoto I think a good part of the reason why that is, is due to the fact said monorail doesn't go to the airport, where most of the tourists enter the city from. I bet that it would see a lot more use if it did.
@@Goldsteinphoto Is that the one that goes to Luxor. It is a joke. I had no idea it was that much.
Vegas isn't that big a place . Doesn't need this
It hurt my head when I realized all this fuss was basically just two more lanes of road. Two low-volume lanes of road.
My RUclips reccs are just beating up Musk, and I’m here for it
Same lol
Same. Australians be hating Musk obviously and the algorithm’s put me in that pipeline. Good.
lol after watching adam something , i am getting recomendation of this chanel
@@rohan14040 Yep, binged there, ended up here.
@@tethergobrrr though adam something is hungarian not australian. i guess
The lengths people go to avoid admitting that transportation on rails is a really good invention is always astonishing.
In your conclusion i missed that the solutions are denser neighborhoods, bicycle infrastructure, light rail for high capacity routes, busses for low capacity routes, regional and long distance high speed rail, as well as generally taking away space from cars and giving it to people
Cars still have some place, I mean try taking bags for a family of four on a two week holiday and not losing one of the bags on the train. If you must attack personal transport, attack it in the towns where pedestrians walk around. Cars and bikes should never have the opportunity to run into pedestrians. Bikes especially, since I know two people who've been punched by a cyclist who's then robbed them and sped off. A car barreling towards you is scary, but no one cares about a bike doing the same until you see the fist raise to the level of your face, by which its too late.
@@dafoex pedestrians are not the offenders, cars kill them and cyclists, not the other way around. Of course everyone needs to abide by traffic rules, the consequences of cars not following them are way more severe though
So, to sum up the video in a few sentences. Metros/Light Rail/Trams can carry the biggest amounts of passengers thanks to their ability to extend to 2-3+ (zero pollution most of the time) carriages, something a Bus (Rapid) System will always struggle to do. However, the Bus will always carry far more than a single car or pod will ever be able to.
On the contrary, this BRT is a joke. It is only 7.3 miles long, has only 3 stations, is mostly a concrete track overland wasting gobs of space and splitting the surrounding area and travels at an average of only 22mph, also has to negotiate traffic lights and transports only 40,000 PER DAY.
Not per hour - that’s per day!
And the cost of this wondrous system of slow buses? $98 million dollars. That’s $13.4m per mile and that isn’t even underground!
And Aussie Wirraway goes on to laud the IndyGo Redline BRT which costs $19m per mile all above ground!
This compares to the Vegas Loop which will be 29 miles long, have 51 stations, will transport at least 57,000 people PER HOUR and costs taxpayer ZERO dollars.
Even if taxpayers were paying, the cost of Loop tunnels is as low as $6m per mile and cost of stations is $2m each.
BRT just doesn’t compare.
Ah yes, fix traffic by putting it underground. Truly a “genius” idea.
Maybe he is trying to one-up those underground roundabouts?
I really can't stand how many of these public transit alternatives exist. Every day I learn about a new one and how it failed. Aerotrain, the other Aerotrain, 3d-printed personal pods, hyperloops, trackless light rails... It's ridiculous. Think of where we could be as a society if all the brains who are inventing these things worked on developing better light rails and bus systems!
Am I the only one that noticed but all of these "new innovative mass transportaion" vehicles are just updated buses\trains that have been used since the 1800's???
Visualy updated. Functionally they are worse.
Can’t wait to watch it fail miserably! Cheers!
Why would you hate on somebody who is working for the betterment of the people?
@@tandinwangyel1897 The system makes zero sense he should have stopped it when it became apparent that it was.
@@jimlincoln1283 Same thing people said before when he was bringing some innovation in Spacex and Tesla. It never made sense to them but now they are back to their cave. I wouldn't be shock if same things happen this time with the tunnel loop.
@@tandinwangyel1897 SpaceEx did everything Nasa did with more cost. His greatest contribution to Tesla is marketing. Tesla got more junk features but the money of its investers are the one keeping it alive.
@@Account.for.Comment Do some research. You have misinformation with regard to Elon and his work
Elon Musk is great at taking other people ideas, like the hyperloop, giving them a new cool name, and then selling them as his own. To maintain his status as a genius inventor he has to keep coming up with new ideas, like this dumb Las Vegas Loop thing which is just laughable.
I remember the hyperloop being an idea way before I heard of Elon. I first heard of it as a possibility for a transatlantic train system, where it was a maglev train in a vacuum tube tunnel, which removes almost all friction and allows it to reach supersonic speeds.
Musk just gave it a brand name and said he'd build it eventually™
Can you imagine if the Vegas Loop were a government project? Can you imagine how much scrutiny it would get for "wasteful spending"? But because it was built by a supposed "entrepreneur", no one says a thing about what a dumb idea it is
One of the alternatives that was proposed was an underground train for FOUR TIMES as much money. THAT would have been wasteful spending!
@@kevinbailey8827 That doesn't say much...
Sure the metro system costs 4 times as much to build when compared to this car based tunnel. But if the metro moves over four times as many people over the day. Then the metro would end up being cheaper *per person it carries.*
And this isn't even mentioning the running cost of both systems.
@@vulduv In this particular case a metro would never break even based on cost per passenger or operating costs.
So far, the busiest day this system has experienced was 27,000 passengers, most of those in the 8 hours that the SEMA show was open. The loop carried 27,000 passengers that day. If there had been a metro there instead, it would have carried 27,000 people.
The most they expect to have is about 60,000 people per day over a 13 hour period. Either the Loop or the train would be able to handle that. They'll carry the same number of passengers, but the underground train would have cost four times as much to do it. It doesn't matter how many more the train could carry at a time, because it can only carry the number who show up. The bigger your train, the more empty it will run.
In terms of operating cost, the LVCVA is paying TBC $6 million a year to operate it. Let's assume the metro costs half as much a year to operate. That means it would take 50 years to make up for the fact that the train cost at least $150 million more to build. Even if the train were absolutely free to operate, it would take 25 years to break even.
Nice, I always appreciate a Musk reality check as well as rational talk on public transit.
I think the loop is just a gimmick for rising Musk’s stock prices
So, basically spend billions to create an underground traffic jam
Great video!
"Environmentally friendly" but what about the lithium batteries?
Or the coal in the power stations?
@@dafoex That bit is less significant since we have technologies that can produce energy with a smaller environmental impact, but lithium batteries and batteries in general are much harder to make clean.
It's almost as if no Musk fan is taking into consideration a concept known as Passengers/Vehicle(or Operator).
The O’Bahn should absolutely be replaced with light rail at a minimum, and ideally connect with existing tram services in front of the train station. Adelaide railway station just needs a throughway and honestly a connection from the O’Bahn entry and railway station wouldn’t be exceptionally complicated, relative to how most other modern cities are much denser than Adelaide.
He just want to sell his cars.
He wants to sell more tunnels.
If you thought the O-Bahn sucks, then the Tesla Loop brings public transport to a whole new level of bad.
Mom can we get a BRT?
No, we have a BRT at home.
The BRT at home:
The loop is nothing more then a simple one way road tunnel. Hardly a solution to mass transit issues around the world. Only trams, metro and high speed railway combined with high frequency bus transport are the solution.
Road tunnels have safety features
or trolley bus( full elettric bus)
The tunnels are tunnels. A Loop is a system of tunnels, optimized for throughput, including all systems for maintenance, safety, and security.
For people living in distant parts of the world with their social media flooded with fancy lies and stuff, this is really eye opening and informative, great work👍
Overlord Elon's loop is literally just the same as the above-ground road system, but underground instead to make it more expensive.
No, it was built underground because that is what the call for bids defined and rightly so. Surface traffic in Las Vegas is hell and contributing 4000 rides an hour would have made it that much worse.
@@markharmon4963
Does Las Vegas have a tram/light rail? That would completely replace large parts of the surface traffic and may make anything underground redundant.
@@Alias_Anybody Maybe. Maybe the planners decided it would be easier to make a dedicated slim tunnel than to set all the alignments of a rail and upset traffic for years and dedicate all of the road service and traffic signals just to have a train that gets stuck in traffic and would have to demo the ground floor lobby of four exhibition centers in order to point to point people where they wanted. I was not in the room when they made that decision. All I know is they asked for an underground system.
@@Alias_Anybody No, I do not think Las Vegas has a light rail system.
@@markharmon4963
1. Electric trams are older than the damn city of Las Vegas. Not having one in the first place is a huge oversight and a testament to persistent stupidity.
2. They won't get stuck in traffic if they get at least two lanes just for themself. Those two could offer a drastically higher capacity than two car lanes. That's how it's done everywhere as long as you have at least 4 lanes total without having to tear down historical buildings or something.
3. If it HAS to be underground, make a Subway, not a stupid car tunnel. Though a Subway without proper bus- and tram-lines is not ideal.
so he made a bus lane, underground, filled it with lower capacity vehicles, and that's supposed to solve traffic? Does Elon know about this ancient technology called Tha TrAiN?
Good man, replacing it with a tram would be far better!
Elon Musk does have some very... passionate... ideas. Nice breakdown!
When Musk tell something is "personalized" it simply means "expensive that only rich people could afford".
Once you consider his tunnels would only run for the rich, then the rationale behind the project becomes clear.
The cost to ride in the Vegas loop will be about the same as the cost for an Uber. $5 to $20, depending on the distance. Per car, not per person. If you can afford an Uber, you can ride the Vegas Loop, Mr. Moneybags!
Loops in other cities will set their own rates, and they may choose to subsidize those fares as they currently do for metro fares and other public transportation. That could make the loop as cheap for passengers as a subway.
I tell u wut playa, that obahn works bloody brilliantly for an aging piece of infrastructure. It can get me from TTP to CBD faster during peak hour than driving down northeast road or lower northeast road. My biggest gripe with the Obahn is that the way services are organized on it leaves a bit to be desired as far as being intuitive for someone unfamiliar. More specifically it’s too easy to catch the wrong bus relative to where you’re going. Real world example, I needed to get to the city and didn’t want to drive in and deal with the hassle of finding parking. So I got to the closest interchange and caught the bus into town arriving soonest. Unfortunately for me that happened to be a bus that went on a circuitous route before getting back onto the obahn costing me valuable time and making me late for something. I later learnt that there is a particular stop for the busses going express to town. But there was no signage or anything to make that clear. It annoys me greatly that not all the obahn oriented bus routes are designed to radiate outwards from their obahn path which would better serve the suburbs surrounding interchanges. Some routes go on a suburban jaunt between interchanges for reasons I do not fully understand. I’d much prefer the bus stop closest to my place be part of a route that can go to the nearest interchange that’s also on the way to avoid back tracking and then for that bus to continue on the obahn to town. At present it’s more efficient to drive to an interchange because the buses that will get me to an interchange not only slowly take a winding route there but they also back track to an interchange that’s more out of the way creating more distance to make up but also I have to get off that bus at the interchange and then wait for a bus that will get me express to town. That just seems ridiculous when with a little bit of lateral thinking they could come up with something better by better utilizing what they already have.
Also that Vegas loop looks lame as hell. Musky promised a lot and delivered bugger all for the 50 plus million that all cost.
Since the route is so short, it should be seen as a test route, as there have been other (new) solutions for transport. Some were failures, others revolutionised. I think this is normal.
I see the following Options:
1. the whole thing is discontinued after a certain time (The Skybus Pittsbugh; M-Bahn Berlin)
2. it continues as an isolated operation, but does not really spread (suspension railways along the lines of the Wuppertal suspension railway).
3. the concept is improved and the improved solution spreads (Londen Underground in steam operation)
4. it spreads almost unchanged (railways in general; motorways)
My boy Elon just wants a cool place below the surface to throw some RGB Tesla parties give him a break
Thanks for the video. I see it was made a few years ago. Being of Dutch back ground, but living in Adelaide, I see so many mistakes in our roads, footpaths, bike paths. We are always 40 years behind everything in this country. The o Bahn was started in 1985. What is the life of the o Bahn before it will need to be replaced. Hopefully, a smart government ( not many of those around) will replace with trams. Now that battery operated trams exist overseas , it could make a significant improvement. The city is terrible with all the buses. All the fumes and noise. Buses are such a terrible form of transport.
One battery accident later and you have the world's first crematorium with RGB lights
No there will not be speeds fast enough to make that likely to happen. And the tunnel is ventilated. It could be a simple solution to plumb in fire suppression equipment.
@@markharmon4963 *battery* accident. And the low speed is a whole separate problem for it that only makes it even worse in comparison to other public transit systems.
@@EgorKaskader I think the battery fires are not as common as people think. They are rare. I good foam fire suppression system would be a reasonable requirement. I know the current system is well ventilated.
@@markharmon4963 And the people in the car, just let them die? Besides, you know what the problem is with the battery fires? They keep restarting. And if a freaking subway system *designed to double as a nuclear shelter* cannot pull out all the smoke, then I highly doubt a small tunnel without any ventilation shafts or filtering equipment rated to keep the air clear from nuclear fallout for a whole week would be able to pull all of it away. There's also no good way to *escape* the tunnel if the fire starts aside from just hoping the signalling still works and the vehicles can move, which for *any* European tunnel system would be unacceptable. This goes for subways, light rail subways, and even just car tunnels. Even the tiny system of the Vegas Loop shows the problem, but if you scale it up to an actual public transit system? Yeah, good luck. There's also the simple problem of the fire inside the small tunnel potentially damaging the ventilation itself, and there not being any way to vent smoke *outside* the stations, putting passengers there at risk, and there not being any fire survival shelters as mandatory for car tunnels above certain lengths, varied by country, but always required.
@@EgorKaskader I think the foam is an effective suppressant. The tunnels are ventilated. Public car tunnels have far greater risks. This will only have automated vehicles on a closed system. I do not think either of us advocate closing public tunnels.
I love the Adelaide O-Bahn, I used to catch it to and from high-school for 5ish years. It was always a blast when speeding down the track.
He fixes city bad traffic design with a totally costly complicated patch.
A patch that is designed to be efficient by removing all safety features. The Boring Company has pretty much designed a multi-car pile-up tunnel, with no escape routes. Great job, Elon.
Didn't he start out as a software engineer? This might explain his "it's not bug, it's a feature" attitude.
@@Improbabilities feels like a great idea... as a cyberpunk dystopian story not for a real life mass transport solution.
@@Improbabilities Would you please explain a scenario where that would likely happen?
For a cautionary tale of Buses operating on a guideway consider the case of the city of Nancy in France, where they are tearing out the busway and installing light rail. The guided busway had much lower initial costs but the concept caused premature pavement and tire wear, and suspension component failure.
Busway's are best used where there isn't high enough capacity to justify light rail. We have one in my area which is pretty much designed to service schools. This is great as during peak times it takes a lot of buses off our roads for a 31 km stretch and links them directly to two major rail stations.
it started off servicing just 1570 passengers per week in 2003. Even now it's hard to justify upgrading to light rail when it's just 30,000 riders per week.
High Frequency is a good thing. Passenger demand responds much more to reduced waiting time on Metro-like (turn up and go) service than to a similar reduction to the in vehicle component of the journey - as waiting time has a higher 'generalised' cost for most passengers. I would suspect that the bus service will carry substantially more passengers with (say) 30 buses per hour, than a rail service along the same corridor offering 4 trains per hour. Both clearly much better than 30 cars per hour going from one side of an exhibition centre to the other at a cost of $50 million plus though!
Depends on the demand, but an advantage of some of the new automated light rail systems is that you can run smaller trains in general, and even smaller trains off-peak hours. A new system being built in Montreal will have trains passing every 4 to 5 minutes at any time of the day.
@@alexseguin5245 still better than Loop system, which just use car or pods, which have smaller capacity than Monstreal small light rail train
@@curious5887 Yeah, just about anything beats that loop system lol.
The next time one of these projects comes up for bids, the people who could have done it better and cheaper need to get a proposal together and submit it!
Otherwise The Boring is going to have the lowest bid and the winning proposal.
this man invented the automobile and the rocket, have some respect, mkay
lmao please tell me this is sarcasm
@@kenshin6553 yes it is, and i also send him my paycheck for more inventions. he needs more money
Actually Elon Musk's tunnel could be converted into a better use such as the Subway, Premetro Light Rail, or even the BRT.
I'm not usually a fan of BRTs, but I'll make an exception for the O-Bahn as it actually works *really* frikkin well. Replacing it with a tram extension sounds good, but when you think about the number of direct, no-interchange journeys that the O-Bahm provides high quality service too, I actually think it should stay. The only thing I'd really like to see done is for it to be fitted with electric catenary so that we can convert the buses along the routes using it to trolley buses (with modest batteries for the final few KMs of their route). It's more sustainable and cheaper in the long run than using electric buses with gigantic batteries, and it's proven popular in Europe for extending their trolley systems.
It's so fun to know that the system from Elon could very easily be rebuilt to a metro or BRT (don't know if the tunnels have the space for busses though)
They seems pretty small so metro with tiny wagons (like lot of UK do) seems more reasonable.
Adelaide could really do with some medium density housing. Soooo many standalone houses around the O-Bahn!
Agree with everything you said here, apart from the Heathrow Pods being a failure. Their purpose is to transport you between Terminal 5 and one of it's small car parks. They don't need to serve lots of people a day, just the few people every hour that are arriving and departing and have parked in said car park. So in that aspect, I think they do are a success. And that's coming from someone who's been on the pods. But it is true that personalised rapid transit just never works when you're talking about it in the sense of an actual commuter transport system.
You could maybe call the pods a failure in that they haven't built more of them. If it was game changing you'd have thought they'd made more routes for more pods from more car parks to more terminals.
Still, I think they are much more successful than anything else that's attempted to replace the car's niche for personal rapid transit.
@@dafoex Yeah, I agree. But for solely the purpose it serves at LHR T5, I think it does the job perfectly. But the idea as a whole is a bit of a flop, yes.
i am glad i live near a BRT as when it opened in 2015 it cut 15-30 minutes of journey time on certain bus routes as most of the routes got replaced or just removed when it opened as the BRT routes served similar routes expect using the guided busway
Amazing content! Elon Musk knows his stuff with Tesla and SpaceX but in other areas, he's just as clueless as anyone else - The problem isn't that he's wrong about public transportation and COVID-19 and baby names etc. No, the problem is that he is taken seriously simply because he's rich and famous and those that try to counter his ideas and plans with counter-arguments are met with disapproval by Musk's fans.
He doesn't even know his stuff regarding those. SpaceX consepts about mars colonization are extremely unrealistic and missing key elements.
Tesla is pretty much entirely marketed on providing eventually Full Self Driving, and they aren't even close to achiving that. Their sensor array isn't sufficient for self driving (and they are removing radar). Having test driven both Tesla and VW Id3 (in Europe obviously) it was very clear Tesla was less aware of it's surrounding and noticably missinterperted multiple road features. While VW might not have been even trying to interpret all of them eather, it also didn't try to drive us to every bus stop. If a Tesla can't make a smooth turn on motorway exit ramp, on pristine road with fresh lane markers on clear day, or read a speed limit sign on straight motorway, it's nowhere near truly self driving.
@@Ruinwyn I’m starting to think self driving is pointless. Do we have to be constantly entertained to the point that we need movies and video games during a car ride?
@@Ruinwyn Since you did not drive a Tesla with the beta Full Self Driving how could you know?
@@Pancakegr8 self driving cars would greatly reduce the number of traffic accidents (if they work properly of course)
@@Goldsteinphoto the sensors are still the same. If the car doesn't know where the road/lane is it can't drive itself. If it can't read the speedlimits it can't drive itself. Are you claiming they haven't kept the AP up to date regarding these basic features? If the cameras miss the speedlimit sign, they miss the speedlimit sign. Doesn't matter if it's AP or FSD. That should only determine what it does with the info. And if they miss 2 signs on straight highway, there is no chance it's any better at detecting them in residential areas.
A lot of people don't like public transport but want to get places quickly. They're never going to ride a bus or train though.
I perfer trollybuses......which worked.
I think they should focus on cheap tunnels. There are several uses for them, like bike lanes and infrastructure cables. A small tram in those tunnels, connected to the major subway lines, could be very cool.
This is a great video. I was gonna mention donoteat01 but u allready did 😂
He's a good content creator, just wished he uploaded more often
I havent been there since I was a child, but anyone here from Eastern Europe remembert those old buses that run through town and had like atrain antena or wire above ? Troleybuz or something ?
old bus? trolley bus, here in italy in major city we still use it and they are full elettric
There is plenty towns and cities who use them till these days and often use new vehicles.
Parts of Boston have them.
You've got to do a video on possible O-Barn extensions, being golden grove or other new possible routes
I will and I should, might be an SA state election video though, Labor looks like it might commit to it
@@AussieWirraway, You should a video about converting the Adelaide O'bahn guided busway to train/ heavy rail. While the North East O'bahn busway is one of the best public transport services in Adelaide, it fails miserably when large volume buses during peak hour from the O'bahn tunnel enter onto Grenfell to Currie Street. Putting O'bahn buses in a tunnel under Grenfell to Currie Street to increase reliability, capacity and frequency defeats the purpose of the buses flexibility. A bus only tunnel with 2 lanes per direction like sections of Brisbane's busway under Brisbane's CBD is prohibitively expensive in while being totally outclassed in capacity with a long train in a tunnel.
Adelaide Metro's official website (see link below) shows all the possible bus lines operating only the O'bahn guided busway. Some of these O'bahn bus lines only operate in the morning and afternoon peak hours with high passenger volumes. In other times, passengers are forced to change buses to from the off peak O'bahn bus lines and other bus lines to continue along the concrete guideway into Adelaide CBD.
adelaidemetro.com.au/Timetables2/Special-services/Adelaide-O-Bahn
The link below shows all stopping patterns and frequency for the entire O'bahn. This link shows that the O'bahn busway with buses branching away from the busway stations are a complicated system with low frequency buses in mixed traffic which hurts potential passengers.
railmaps.com.au/routedetails.php?TableSelect=5092
Trains are way more efficient than buses. But try explaining to a south australian that a train carries more passengers than a bus. Their reply would be "Well we'll just have 10 buses which equals one train"............but they just don't get it do they? And they say the Irish are dimwitted.
@@michaeleverett1479 Exactly. TRAIN please!!!!!
BRTs are often cheaper to build than trams, but in TCO, trams are cheaper. Trams last longer (wheels, engine etc), they can accommodate more people, and be coupled in rush hours to raise capacity even further. They can be linked with light rail or full sized railways and use their tracks too. And in town when they use their own tracks, the track bed can be filled with grass improving the city climate. And they can be made even quieter than electric buses.
When you’ve never used public transit, this is what you’d come up with.
Either that, or you did use public transit and you hated the "public" part of it.
Actually, it's more like an HOV lane, without the HO.
Aussie Adam Something
I love how this guy sounds slightly drunk when speaking! Subscribed!
Elon Musk is the Donald Trump of technology.
The biggest bottleneck in this system would not be the tunnel itself but the way in/way out. It looks like one transfer to and from road level would take at least 30 seconds, more realistically about a minute. So the stations would need to be either every 20m (which would mean that the whole tunnel is one big continuous station) or the whole system would be one huge traffic jam.
Another fundamental bottleneck is the turnaround time. All public transport systems suffer from this, but the Loop suffers more due to the vehicles' small capacity.
If each vehicle holds 3 people comfortably, and the turnaround time is 30 seconds (that's likely to be a minute or longer in many cases), you can transport 6 people per minute per car. That equates to 360 people per hour, and you have five bays per direction, so you get 1800 people per hour.
That's the _absolute maximum_ number of people you can transport, even if the cars travelled at 99.9% the speed of light.
To be fair, the Loop fits in perfectly with the rest of Las Vegas. A massive, completely unnecessary waste of money in the middle of a desert.
It will also be a showpiece. People from all over the world will experience the Loop. They’ll see first hand how quickly they can get from one place to another.
Some of them will be part of local governments considering mass transit options. TBC will be able to give them details such as actual capacity and construction costs.
but the gamer lights
Why don't you just use Kangaroos as transportation and hop with them in their pouches?
always
fackin straya mate
😂😂😂
Elon musk comes from South Africa and lives in America.
None of these countries are known for public transport culture
We need to force him to travel in Europe cities with just few buck. He will probaly loose it from metro, trams and trolleybuses!
but but muh ELeTriC cArs
it's like Musk took the worst parts from metro, BRT and cars and slapped them together
I love how you're comparing Musk's "FUTURE OF TRANSPORTATION" to pretty much a basic public transportation and just beating the shit out of the "loop"
Except for the fact that this o-Bahn is a joke compared to the just approved Vegas Loop. this Adelaide O-Bahn video had me laughing. It is only 7.3 miles long, has only 3 stations, is mostly a concrete track overland wasting gobs of space and splitting the surrounding area and travels at an average of only 22mph, also has to negotiate traffic lights and transports only 40,000 PER DAY.
Not per hour - that’s per day!
And the cost of this wondrous system of slow buses? $98 million dollars. That’s $13.4m per mile and that isn’t even underground!
And Aussie Wirraway goes on to laud the IndyGo Redline BRT which costs $19m per mile all above ground!
This compares to the Vegas Loop which will be 29 miles long, have 51 stations, will transport at least 57,000 people PER HOUR and costs taxpayer ZERO dollars.
Even if taxpayers were paying, the cost of Loop tunnels is as low as $6m per mile and cost of stations is $2m each.
BRT just doesn’t compare.
They have this from the surrounding towns and villages into Cambridge in the UK. I've been on it, it's good. All the busses have air con and leather seats and run on biodiesel and there's a cycle path through a nature reserve with lakes and planting next to it the entire length for miles.
That sounds awesome. So what does that have to do with a convention hall in a city street crowded with a surge of conventioneers and their roads cannot accommodate them? You build a dedicated loop underneath that can drop people at a station directly underneath the middle of the hall. There is no comparison to the two problems.
The loop is only possible in the US because it fullfills the most important wish of Americans: to stay safe in their cars without getting in contact with other americans. Those could be poor, razy or violent.
How many subway systems, trams, busses, trolleys, and trains do you think are in US?
@@Goldsteinphoto There is one in New York, one in Seattle and one in Washington I think. Busses can only be used by poor people, and, yes there is one historic cable car in San Francisco.
@@JakobFischer60 Wrong.
@@Goldsteinphoto You know I am right.
@@JakobFischer60
Subway - rapid transit.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_rapid_transit_systems_by_ridership
The Las Vegas request for bids asked for an underground system. Those buses are very expensive and when you enter them you must stop at every stop along the way. The LV Loop allows you to share a vehicle with others going to the same location. This is important as the convention center is only the first stage of a city wide project with 40 or more stops.
O-Bahns for all
The obarn will have to either be rebuilt or replaced soon as the concrete will crumble in 10-15 years from what I've heard
I mean, that's gonna happen with the Loop too though. THat's just a concrete problem
I think you're being unfair to Elon. He has georgeos, colour-changing LEDs in his Las Vegas loop. Your bus system doesn't have that.
The worst part about the Vegas loop is that the problem it was supposed to solve is a 15 minute walk from one end of the convention centre to the other
According to the LVCVA, that walk takes 45 minutes or more when the convention is crowded during the largest shows.
Can anyone translate this into English, please?
Loop: speed is slower by roughly 3/4 of the proposed speed; the cost is roughly ten times higher than proposed; passenger capacity at the absolute mathematical possible capacity, assuming FULL vehicles in every single instance is max 1/2 of proposed capacity; vehicles are not driver-less so there are WAGES to be paid for drivers, increasing the cost massively due to the low capacity of each vehicle (maximum of four passengers per car, if they are all very slim AND fit three into the read bench; three passengers max with an average American); saftey measures are NOT built into the loop at any point (so the cost should go up should there even be a sprinkler system added); NO ventilation for a longer tunnel as the current tunnel is so short it can rely on air circulation by convection, making the costs explode again; it is a single lane, one way system barely wide or tall enough for a standard Tesla car but not even their cybertruck would fit into the tunnel, much less ANY other larger vechicle. Should there EVER be ANY kind of accident, or medical emergency the tunnels would be blocked by the cars traveling into it but being unable to reasonably reverse or bypass the stuck vehicle; much less would the tunnel be able to accomodate an ambulance or other rescue vehicle. Oh, and the Tesla cars have to be charged regularly increasing the number of vehicles required to keep up the maximum capacity proposed.
Not like with trains that - gasp - get their electricity from a power rail... wow what a novel concept...
Yeah, I see why it is worse... 😂😋
there is a plan to have the LVCC loop automated by the end of the year,
in the recent test they achieved the expected capacity,
there is room for people on foot to walk past a stalled car,
the cars in front of the stalled vehicle would drive forward and the cars behind would reverse out, why would there be need to "bypass", they have vehicles capable of pulling a vehicle out of the tunnel
there is safety systems in place, you don't the think the LVCC had other Las Vegas safety officials involved? when it will be publicly accessible
Teslas are very well proven, they can charge them in 30 minutes and run for hours(if not all day) at the tunnel speeds
@@coreysuffield Yepp, and there has been a 'plan' to travel up to 150 mph...
...with 16 people per fully automated pod...
...in much longer tunnels...
How many of those 'plans' have been achieved?
...still in a single lane, one way tunnel...
How would you have the cars reverse back out through a tunnel that is blocked when Americans can't even do that on multi-lane highways that are blocked?
Much less in a tunnel.
Ever seen a Tesla crash? Yeah?
They burn HOT... really, really hot.
That stuff literally melts concrete.
There is currently no system in place that is able to stop such a battery fire.
These fires on open-air roads are simply allowed to burn out.
In a tunnel that will spell disaster due the extremely high oxygen consumption, plus the smoke that the non-existant ventilation system will fail to extract.
How quickly do you believe that people will be boarding these Teslas crawling in and out of their parking spots? Faster than a metro?
If you say yes, I'll just scoff laugh at your claims.
Your claims of having achieved the expected capacity is definitely wrong. It was the adjusted and LOWER expected capacity, definitely NOT the assumed 4400 peope per hour as advertised in the beginning.
Which, no matter how you twist and turn the fact, is roughly 50 times lower than a well developed metro system at even medium capacity.
At much lower cost, due to the much better passengers per driver ratio. Assuming there ever will be reliable automation. Which I have my serious doubts within the foreseeable future.
BTW: there are fully automatic light rail systems in place in multiple countries that have worked reliably for decades by now.
Why not implement those?
The Vegas loop was nothing more than a marketing gimmick for Tesla.
Las Vegas can definitely built a bus route right through their convention center building. Lmao These people thinking they got it all figured out. What a hilarity.
It can go... around it
@@AussieWirraway Sure, because there's a vast free land for that special bussing route there. Lol
@@jovanleon7 You know you can add extra bus lanes to existing roads, right?
As a causal user of the Adelaide O-Barn I must say we should be investing more money into it and expand its services. I understand the reason for it as the eastern suburbs of Adelaide don’t have access to trains but BRT is great and should be made north and south of Adelaide also.
I didn't know about those busses. Canberra just got super expensive lite rail. Elon is a knob head pretending to invent new tech which its not and also useless. Nice video mate. 👍🤓
This is honestly so cool. I am shocked I have never heard about an o-bahn. My favorite thing about it is that it has benefits of both worlds, buses and trams. It is fast and separated from the traffic like a tram, but the infrastructure is (probably) easier to construct and maintain, and it can drive on the rest of the roads, or in parts, where the tracks haven't been laid yet. I think it's just brilliant! Thanks for letting me know.
try selling public transportation to people in the US lulz...
Yup. This is the real issue.