ACROSS THE SPIDERVERSE | Visually Stunning, But Creatively Borked
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- Опубликовано: 4 июн 2023
- So basically, Miguel is the hero and Miles is the villain. If only the movie understood that, we'd be in much better shape. And don't even get me started on the Spot.
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"Bicycle" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
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"Industrial Cinematic" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
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My twitter: / therealfk9
My livestreaming channel: / @thoriasunlimitedlives...
#Spiderverse #AcrossTheSpiderverse 
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Prediction for Beyond The Spiderverse:
“They’ll never know what you sacrificed for them.”
I hope not😂
God damn I hope not as well...
Oh good God, no 😔🤣
The spider in the wheelchair is actually a spider-sona who got canon from a contest, named Sun Spider, a spider named Charlotte Webber who has EDS.
I actually hated the comic version cuz it was just.... pathetic.
However, the movie version had a spiderchair that is awesome and creepy cool to see in action.
Okay so?
Whats the issue?
Yes the comic where they appeard wasn’t good
But there isn’t any problems with the character
All the character did in the movie
Was just push miles of a hourse
That's gotta be one of the dumbest things ive heard this week lol
Miles has one trait he didn’t get from someone else, he got it because it’s a stereotype. He likes to mix beats.
????? You mean listen to music like loads of people like to do? And his love of hip hop clearly comes from his uncle established in the first movie lol
@@jasoningramx3731
"his love of hip hop clearly comes from"...the writer giving Miles his own personality trait.
The "get from someone else" part, is about all the traits Miles has, that are just copies of Peter's.
@jasoningramx3731 come on lol, get real. It's INCREDIBLY obvious why he makes beats...
Totally not racist head writer of the movie whos a white man btw >:C
Thorias telling it like it is
Love it😂😂
He's giving his opinion and nothing more boy get off your knees 😂.
@@lovelyminx6444 And his opinion is right xd.
@@lovelyminx6444 And what is wrong about his opinion? Outside of Miguel's handling of the situation?
@@scottchaison1001 An opinion can't be right that's not how it works. I suggest more books without pictures.
While I enjoyed the film. Thorias, for the most part has made some strong points about Miles and the Spider verse films.
More salt in the wound considering Miles and Miguel is when Miles was first introduced you had "journalists" praising Miles for being the first Spider-Man of Color, Completely ignoring Miguel as Spider-Man 2099 or original diverse characters. Which is a another reason many are annoyed with some of the newer diversity characters as they overshadow older characters who happen to be diverse and deserve a push, sometimes straight up ignoring said older characters. Hell, the person created Sun Spider, aka Wheelchair Spider Person, thought disabled heroes didn't exist before.
This reminds of G.I. Joe. when we got the last movie which raceswapped Snake Eyes.
Larry Hama, an Asian American Vietnam vet, former SAG actor, and former employee of DC comics and Marvel; and the main creator of the G.I. Joe Marvel comics run which he helped create many of the characters alongside a Hasbro employee designer, said one time at a comic-con panel of sorts, some Asian kid stood up in a Q&A and asked him "So how come the world's most badass Ninja is just some lame white guy" (because that isnt racist). Nevermind the fact this kid completely ignored Storm Shadow who was always equally baddass to Snake-Eyes and had just as much character development if not even arguably more; Larry said he was 'left dumbfounded by the question'.
Which is insane because 40 years before all this woke shit, if there was ANY property that CORRECTLY pushed inclusivity and diversity without it feeling fake or ham fisted, it was G.I. Joe.
You had characters from all walks of life; al ethnicities in there and it never felt like cheap pandering.
So the fact Larry somehow forgot that and sided with this dumb teen made no sense.
This resulted in him being producer on Snake-Eyes movie and raceswapping him; and it did the movie no favors.
Because the main problem of that movie was he didnt feel like Snake Eyes at all since he 1)talked, 2)story was completely changed 3)had almost NO morals or honor.
Complete character assassination. He felt like the villain not the hero.
Which is ironic because Miles is played off to be less sympathetic in this movie (to Spot) and is placed as the villain.
We see this a lot now. Even Wanda was the villain in her own story (Wandavision) but Monica Rambeau let her go and was like "they'll never know what you sacrificed".
Then she went full villain in MoM lol
Wakanda Forever; somehow we were supposed to sympathize with Namor even AFTER he kills Queen Ramonda.
Shuri even starts to exhibit villain like traits and dont get me started on Riri Williams.
And in the comics, Captain Marvel and Ms Marvel had gotten so bad at points in near fascist like behavior they felt like villains at times.
Spider-Punk in the comics feels like the antihesis to Spider-Man with his anarchist near Communist like ways; plus he's a murderer and a thief and now he's modeled after a graffiti artist known for vandalizing who prostituted himself and was a heroin addict. Real hero mateiral thre. but thats okay I guess.
The whole thing is ridiculous. But hey they wanna keep hiring these no talent virtue signaling activist writers so be it.
@Budgie Cat I wasn't aware about all of that concerning Snake Eyes. It's also a shames as I remember when people were complaining how it seemed Asian heroes were almost always ninjas or samurai and now if a character's speciality is martial arts they MUST be Asian, i.e. Iron Fist complete with shoe horsing an original Asian hero to be the new Iron Fist. That's also something I'm dreading to see more of: older creators feeling the need to make changes to their work for "diversity" even if it was fine before and reeks more of desperation.
I legitimately had an arguement with a guy who claimed there was no problem with spider-woman being pregnant while fighting crime because (and I shit you not) she has super powers........that's it just the fact that she has super powers means the child could not be harmed and was basically a spounge that could twist and contort so spider-woman could fight un hindered.
The fact that a pregnant woman (superpowered or not) is in any sort of danger willing is NOT heroic in the least.
We don't know what she's pregnant with, it could be a whole swarm of mutated spider monsters.
They have an entire spiderverse that could have helped her out
@@Hanmacx Funnily enough that was one of my arguements. I said that superheroing wasn't her job, she could take time off and let literally anyone else pick up the slack for however long she needed.
I think his response was something along the lines of it was her duty and superheroing doesn't have maternity leave or something like that and if Spiderman can fight though a broken rib Jessica could fight pregnant.
It was wild how stupid this guy was.
@@officerbucktuddrussel394 technically he is right, superheroing doesn't have maternity leave
But I still think other heroes could have helped her out
I thought the movie was enjoyable, but I’m glad you brought up legit criticisms that I had and have heard basically no one bring up
I liked it right up until the ending.
Even the cliffhanger would have been fine if they picked another subplot to resolve so you feel like something "got done" by the end of it.
Same here. I was like, it was a fun and enjoyable movie with hardly any wrong doings... But then my mind was like " yeah about that..."
Some people were saying that this is the best Spider-Man movie ever
I'd been saying these same things about Marvel movies since they introduced Thanos, who wanted to save the Universe from war, famine, etc. while the, "good guys" stopped him.
@@Freakazoid12345 Yeah, but... While Thanos realized in the movie universe was a really top notch character, his way of saving the universe from war and famine and whatever evils you imagine by halving the population... Doesn't make a lick of sense.
So now you have half the amount of rich people - meaning, the remaining rich people are now twice as rich on average (you didn't think their money and wealth were going anywhere but to the people that would normally inherit it?). And you have half as many very poor people... Because you just killed half the poor people. And then you have the people living within their means, half of them will die and that will cause immeasurable pain and suffering.
And for what? For the misguided notion some of our biologists had that overpopulation will kill us? We're not bacteria on a dish. We change our behavior and our surroundings. We learn to use it in different ways. We evolve our technology and culture.
While it's in vogue today in the rich world to hate on humanity and treat having children like it's some kind of luxury one has to afford, it will all quickly change back to what it was before when we start expanding to the Solar System, and especially, beyond.
This movie is incredibly redundant. They just showed Miles learning what it means to be Spider-man in the first movie, and now he's saving the Multiverse again? Why not just finally give him a story where he's actually the Spiderman of his universe. Fighting new and old bad guys, and dealing with drama.
12:30 Because, bizarrely, she did that in the comics too. Literal supervillains called her out on it.
Peter Parker/Spiderman whole foundation is "with great power comes great responsibility"
...Miles: "stop telling me what to do, I'll do my own thing", great representation of newer generations, also It was very obvious that they want to force miles to be the "best" of the bunch, better than P.Parker and the movie full of checked boxes that makes no f@#king sense, if you can make a spider Trex and Spider cat why the need to race/gender bend and then sideline actual popular versions?
you missed the point as miles was saying they are asking him to let his dad die do you realize how fucked up that is
@@PointingouttheObvious No because he's a Peter Stan so let be honest most of these goofs had problems with Miles from day 1
@@legacy8171 because Miles is nothing but a token without a real identity of his own he's just Peter Darker
@internetjerk2839 Both parents are alive, father is a cop, uncle is a crimal Villlain, both the movies and games have made him his own so tf are you talking about exactly? Come with intelligence instead of emotions next time, pal. 🕊 ✌️
@@legacy8171 how different. Creativity is blowing my mind
For me you hands down have the best thumbnails for your videos.
LMFAO When you were saying "I didn't feel satisfied, I felt..." , an ad cut you off. I was like "EXACTLY! That is exactly how the movie felt." Seriously, it just cut off. There was nothing storywise to indicate the end of the movie. Just the words "To be continued". It didn't set up for the next film. They just cut a giant film in half and left it at that.
What movie were you watching ? The whole idea of being stranded in the wrong universe was set up alone and people must have not been paying attention if they didn't think this movie was a half of the story. When the movie's titled was released, it was Across the Spider-Verse Part 1, then the next movie got the Beyond the Spider-Verse title and they dropped the parts 1 & 2.
@@ThePSWarrior Ever heard of third act structure? Let me guess, you didn't even watch what Thorias said, didn't you?
I thought it went like this:
1st Act: Reintroduce Miles and Gwen
2nd Act: Mambatten New York
3rd Act: Spider Society
@@swiftstrike4044 Pretty sure, it's not a location thing.
It's more like a story's beginning, middle and end. If you want a good example, just look at all pixar movies or even the first Spider-Verse movie.
I mean he isn't lying. I was going to say he's gasing his reaction up for views, he's a hater, etc. but in reality he's right. Miles is screwing everything up, he seems like he has no sympathy for the villains he fights, and he's the ripoff for Peter's leftovers 😂. I never saw him as the villain of this movie but they way you laid it out makes sense and the way you make Miguel (the best spiderman) out as a person who doesn't want bad things to happen is great too. I'm also glad I'm not the only one that saw how stupid drew is with her fighting while being pregnant. Overall I liked the movie and it's beautiful to look at with the visuals and characters, but it's pretty bad when you look at it closely. I'm glad I subscribed to you bro. Keep up the good work.
I also agree with you when it comes down to the lack of originality for miles. That's one of the reasons why I don't like miles either
Spot was a scientist that worked on the dimensional super-collider for Kingpin. He was fine with potentially compromising the fabric of reality to make a few bucks. If Miles deserves no sympathy for wanting to save his dad, then Spot definitely doesn't deserve any. Plus, the first thing he does with his powers is to rob an ATM? So why does Miles need to be sympathetic towards him?? Double-standards much.
@@Birthday888 What if spot was doing the job because he was forced to or he needed the extra money? Maybe he did know what was going to happen and waned to stop but what if he couldn't because kingpin was there ready to break him like a twig? You make him sound like he's the worst villain and he deserves what's coming. Sure, he was robbing an ATM (kinda) but he was doing it because he can't get a job.
Anyone would do that if they lack the physical features that's makes themselves human. I liked the movie mainly because of spiderman 2099 (the best spiderman) and I don't like miles or spot. However I'm willing to understand spots situation. His life is destroyed thanks to miles and kingpin so he's pretty much wants revenge. If kingpin was alive, he would probably go after him too. Don't use the excuse of he's going after Miles dad because he just wants to get even and sure yea it's wrong and I don't agree, but it's what an potential person would do in that situation.
Meanwhile, Miles treats him like a joke, fails to take responsibility, wants to save his father even though it could destroy his universe, not listening to people who has experience, and is constantly sticking his nose in people's business. I mean he shouldn't even be a spider man but he is and now we seen a universe without one. Who's the bigger villain? Spot who wants revenge because of his life being pretty much over or miles who wants to destroy millions of lives and universes just because of one person? 😂😂. If you say spot, then the fan boy is a sickness 🤣. I don't see any form of Double standards and he should be sympathetic to spot because HE PUT HIM IN THAT SITUATION 😂.
@@KingWolf101 If Spot was willing to create the collider, something that was beginning to destroy Miles' universe because he needed extra money, and you think that makes him sympathetic, then by that logic, Miles wanting to save his dad even after being told that doing so could destroy his universe should be just as sympathetic or even more so.
If Spot was forced to work on the collider, then he already understood that the collider was a bad thing and needed to be stopped, and so shouldn't be blaming Miles.
Miles treats him like a joke, because he finds him trying to steal money from an ATM. If Miles made fun of him while Spot was trying to ask Miles for help, or was just explaining his situation, then you would have a point.
It's not Miles' fault the 42's Spider got warped over to his universe? It's the Spot's?
The entire point of the film's plot in the later half is that canon can be changed without breaking the universe, and that Miguel's understanding of how the multiverse works is faulty. Especially since it's just as likely that Spot is the source of the anomalies as Miles is. Even, by the end of the film since Universe 42 is still intact despite having canon drastically changed, while Spot's power is explicitly stated to be multiversal in nature.
The Canon of universe 42 is intact because Miles father, who was a captain, is straight up dead. Also Miles threw the candy at Spot and doesn't even take responsibility for it. Miles made fun of Spot before he knew about Spot's backstory, and still acts like it's not his fault. He still doesn't care. They're both wrong.
@@crono100lv8 100% agree with you. They both in the wrong
To be fair, Spot's accident and Miles becoming Spiderman when he shouldn't have is hardly the latter's fault.
Nobody knew Spot was there when the collider blew up and he's wrong to blame Miles instead of Kingpin or Doc Ock. The lack of sympathy Miles showed is shitty tho.
And Miles himself literally couldn't have known he was an anomaly and nobody really sat down and explained it, he literally had to see for himself that the spider that gave him his powers really didn't come from his universe.
That being said, the story definetly lays it on thick and makes Miles look really irresponsible. Miguel literally made the same mistake and an entire universe paid the price. He's the only one who's being objective about the situation and is, rightfully, trying to stop Miles from making everything worse.
Except he's really not? Mayday's existance, Gwen's father not becoming Police Captain, and the entire existence of Universe 42 shows that canon can be changed quite dramatically without the universe going poof. Miguel's caution is understandable, but he's let his trauma from his mistakes blind him from having an objective look at the situation.
Also, I feel like people don't understand what "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility" means? It means that those with great power have a responsibility to use it to help people, not just to use the power responsibly. Otherwise, Peter wouldn't need to be Spiderman? All he would need to do is to avoid abusing his superpowers if it was solely about being responsible with his powers..
In actively avoiding helping people despite having the power to do so, and furthermore, actively impeding someone else from helping someone who needs it, Miguel's the one furthest away from living up to the ideal of Spiderman, not Miles.
Mayday is not from another universe, Mayday is from the same universe as Peter B. Parker. Captain and Uncle Ben are already dead, they died BEFORE the events of the first movie. A Spider-Man visiting another Spider-Man's universe is not the issue here.
@@crono100lv8 Are you responding to me?
@@crono100lv8 Mayday being from B Parker's universe is irrelevant. Miles is trying to save his dad in his own universe after all.
@@Birthday888 Yes i am dude. Miles' father is dead from universe 42, because that's a canon event. Next is going to be his uncle sadly.
It's fine Thorias. You expressed your opinion on the matter and it's as simple as that. I still have yet to see the movie, so who knows if I'll come out with a similar opinion, but I am happy that you gave the whole movie a chance to win you over at least.
Keep up the good work!
The only thing I didn't like about it was the actual structure of the film. Even knowing that it's a "Part 1" I expected SOME resolution by the end.
Instead of tying up one of the subplots, it opens up *another one* for the final "act"
That type of cliffhanger ending is totally fine in a TV show where I get the conclusion next week... but a 2 hour long movie? No thanks
@@the_inquisitive_inquisitor That's fair.
@@the_inquisitive_inquisitor Fast X, Dune, Back to the Future 2 lol
Like Thorias said, Infinity War did it but it still had proper story arcs
@@the_inquisitive_inquisitor Yeah, that's a fair criticism. The movie should ideally be able to stand on it's own, but none of the story arcs really get resolved by the end of the film due to it ending so abruptly. It very much is a "Part 1" movie as opposed to it's own thing.
I liked the original Into the Spiderverse a lot. It had visual flair and a story that helped me root for Miles Morales. His story of learning to be Spiderman worked well. And the multiverse stuff was limited to a few cool characters, and it built in a good reason why multiverse travel should be limited. I appreciate that.
This seems to use the multiverse to create "look at me" noise and throw easter eggs in. I find I only like multiverses when a handful of characters come to our main characters universe. Too many alt versions and frankly it becomes about the alt versions being a chance to show off.
This review seems fair to me is what I am saying.
This movie is like what I expected the first one to be and the only reason I liked the original is because it wasn't like this.
The Spot, another villain originally created to fight Peter, given to Miles.
(His powers come from an accident involving Cloak's abilities in the comics, all his own doing. Still a scientist doing experiments for Kingpin though.)
To be fair, Marvel hasn't really used Spot as Peter's villain in a serious capacity.
@@camerondalton1495 They gave Mile ONE original villain in this movie, HIMSELF.
Miles isn't a Peter villain.
BUT what did they do...they made him The Prowler, even though Aaron is alive. They just could not give Miles his own identity. They had to make him a Peter villain.
@@CyGea To be fair, that was to show that without a Spider-Man his dad died and he walked a path of villainy similar to his uncle as a result. So there is a method to the madness.
@@camerondalton1495 No path of his own.
Or did it show, if he was NOT bitten (because he wasn't suppose to be bitten, his spider was supposed to bite Peter from Earth 42) Aaron lives, his dad still dies (just sooner), and Miles just becomes A Prowler.
@@CyGeano, the spider was supposed to bite earth-42 Miles. It's brief but shown in the movie
12:05 I don’t get this Hollywood fetish with very pregnant women fighting criminals and monsters! I am not a psychologist, so I can’t even begin to explain it, but I think we need a large team of professionals on this… 😂
99% sure it’s a fetish
@@keatsiannightingale2025 That’s part of it, but I think some “male feminists”, and strong independent women who have never been pregnant, seem to think it’s EMPOWERMENT!
Agreed, it's weird. I'll also slap in Peter B. Parker with child endangerment just for comedic effect, twice. Just because she has abilities? lol
It makes them feel empowered, I guess? It fights the patriarchy, I guess?
There's also comedians like Amy Schumer that like talking about their bodily functions, and treat them as quirky or funny instead of gross. I don't get it. You don't see guys making heroes revolve around the 'lower appendage' sizes, do you? And even when they do, it's done as a joke, not as something to be proud of.
someone in the Board of Directors in hollywood must have like 10tb of pregnant women porn, with this movie and avatar
8:20 Too be fair The Spot flat out admitted he was working with Doc Ock on the Collider which Miles had to the destroy to prevent the Multiverse from being annhilated. What happened to the Spot was something Miles had no idea would happen.
He's still responsible to what he did to Spot though. And doesn't even cares after Spot tells him his origin.
@@crono100lv8 That latter sentence is the worst part yeah. Miles has zero remorse. Peter would never act like that.
@@budgiecat2885Peter has messed up like that as well when he was wasn't caring about the villians he faced. He did the same thing to Electro in Spectacular
@@budgiecat2885 but has literally made a device that could redefine our way of travel, nevermind the knowledge gained, but turns to petty thievery.
Granted the same can be said of all the villains...
Exactly! The argument that Miles wasn’t supposed to be Spider-Man is due to The Spot literally bringing the spider to Earth-1610. So he is the reason he became what he became. So the people who say Miles is to blame, I feel have no real argument. And I feel that Thorias not watching the first film doesn’t have the full context.
*Peter Parker is dead*
Gwen is a meme that's gone to far, and Miles Morales is a corporate-fueled diversity character.
All hail Spider-Oct
Am I the only one who thought Gwen was strangley infatuated with Miles, given that they only spent the better part of a day together in Spiderverse 1?
Yeah its weird Gwen is so distant from her band members. Like usually you are friends with your band members otherwise its work.
Gwen is so fixated on Miles since she misses her Peter who she lost and her dad blames her for it
I guess we can add Peter B Parker to that as well since he only knew Miles for like a day or two. But hey its the plot so we gotta roll with it.
The whole trans allegory thing with Gwen is also weird and feels forced. Now we got people saying she's trans which may either be a reach or maybe true who knows. Shit we had multiple obese Spider-people in this movie; I know that was for all the fat acceptance crowd smh
Like Thorias said; this whole thing has gotten beyond gimmicky, "Peter Parkedcar"? A lame joke becomes reality huh. Way to dilute your brand Marvel. smh
No wonder Peter is a joke right now in the comics..
@@budgiecat2885 I'm not sure, but wasn't part of Gwen's journey in the first film learning to trust others and make friends again?
Nah it felt warranted. She didn’t even seem all that infatuated over him. Him for her, absolutely, but she was more subdued.
@@budgiecat2885 What trans thing again? I didn't notice anything of the sort in the movie.
@@tomaszwota1465 protect trans kids flag in her room. Then journos and twitter freaks caught a wind of iz
Ah the old nostalgia bait. I knew they were going to cut Spectacular Spider-man to a bit part. I think I saw him in the trailer, and I was like "yeah this is a bit part, isn't it?"
What's really funny is that the whole first movie was about Miles trying to stop the Kingpin from doing the same stuff Miles is doing here.
So, this review comes off like the people making this movie knew nothing about the first one.
On the first note, have you ever reviewed Spectacular Spider-man, or would you ever consider doing so if you had a gap in your schedule?
Not really? Kingpin was trying to bring back his family that he pushed away and already killed. Completely ignoring whether his family would even want to see him and that he'd be ripping away a version of his family from everything that they would know.
Miles is just trying to save his dad from a future event. Like, if Kingpin had been trying to save his family and Peter was trying to stop him on the grounds that it might cause harm to other people instead trying to talk to Kingpin, instead of
trying to find some kind of alternative, Peter would be the antagonist to Kingpin's story.
@@Birthday888 They're both tampering with the multiverse with unknowable consequences.
They both love their families (or think they do) but both are messing with the natural order of things in order to see them again.
Aside from the question of how legitimate the threat to the multiverse is, and what the extent of their personal connections are, in what way are they meaningfully different?
@@fictiontheorizer4253 Miles isn't messing with the natural order of things though. His dad is still alive. Plus, Kingpin was willing to actively kill people in order to see his family. And it's not like he's even saving his own family, he's just getting one from another universe. It's a completely selfish action.
Plus, with Kingpin we had demonstratable and definitive proof that his shenanigans with the collider were actively harming his reality. With Miles, all we have is Miguel's hunch, which has been explicitly called out in-universe as them erring on the side of caution rather than the 100% guaranteed reality as to what will happen. Plus, even without the collider, Kingpin is still a massive criminal and murderer.
Also, let's say Miles never learned about Miguel's team and never learned about his father's death being a canonical event. Would his actions meaningfully change? He would still try to save his father, and it's not like him learning that it's canon would change his behavior.
See, what I don't understand about people arguing for Miguel's perspective is that what Miguel is suggesting runs contrary to every version of Spiderman we've had in media thus far. If Peter B. Parker in the first movie had followed Miguel's train of logic, he wouldn't have cared about Miles' safety and focused on stopping Kingpin and the collider, because the collider would've represented a bigger threat to a greater number of people compared to Miles' single life.
And to make this clear: The moment Spiderman ignores a falling child because what he's doing is more important, is the moment he is no longer Spiderman to me.
@@Birthday888 Two things. First off all I haven't seen the movie. This is simply what I am picking up from Thorias.
But it sounds like Miguel at least has some prior experience to draw on.
How valid it is I don't know, but it does seem like there's some precedent going on there.
So without knowing more specifics, I can't really take a side on this.
That said, the similarities between Miles and the Kingpins conflict are there, even if they aren't the same.
Two, Miguel has questioned stuff like this before in Edge of Time.
He never went to these lengths, but there is precedent. I don't know how accurate that one game is to the comics though, so I can't speak to Miguel as a character.
Frankly though, I think Into the Spider-verse adopted a lot from that game and it's prequel Shattered Dimensions.
.... Uh what? 2099 (Miguel) is objectively wrong because we have several examples of canon being averted without the universe being destroyed. Gwen's father stops being a police captain, Peter B Parker gets back together with MJ and has Mayday. Heck, if what Miguel thinks was true, then Universe 42 wouldn't exist anymore due to that Miles Morales never becoming Spiderman and becoming the Prowler instead. That's a pretty freaking huge deviation from that universes "canon", but it's still intact.
The entire point of Miguel's character is that he's letting his past trauma blind him to the actual facts of the situation.
You kinda botched this one Thorias if I'm being honest. Also not sure if it's fair to say that the movie doing the multiverse thing is uncreative, when it's the movie that introduced that concept as applied to comic books. That's like saying that the 8th Harry Potter movie was kinda uncreative in how it was about wizards and magic.
Exactly
@Zoomer Stasi And? Your point is? Spot was a joke villain, and they turned him into an interdimensional threat in this movie. Venom originally didn't impact Peter's personality at all, but every single iteration of the Symbiote Suit arc after the cartoon initially introduced has involved Peter's personality changing.
You can argue about how Miles is the comics is flawed, that doesn't really have any sort of bearing on how he is in the Spiderverse movies.
If Miguel is wrong then how come you explain his own universe getting destroyed? Also how do you explain Pavtir's universe collapsing as well? Also what was Miles plan again? Stop the dead of his father, then what? His universe would be destroyed and we see that happening twice! "I can do both! I can save my father and the spider-verse!" How? Just How? Also nevermind the fact that Miles is an anomaly, he wasn't meant to be Spider-Man and unnecessarly killed Peter Parker from his universe. So yeah, Miles is straight up a FanFiction character
@@crono100lv8 I don't know because Miguel doesn't know because he doesn't actually understand the multiverse as well as he thinks he does. This isn't me coming up with reasons as to why Miguel is wrong, the movie outright points out that he's wrong in the movie.
Pavtir's universe beginning to collapse could be due to the Spot. There's actually a decent chance that the Spot is the anomaly and not Miles. Spot was created around a day after Miles was bitten, his powers are directly connected to the multiverse and he had juiced himself up in Pavtir's universe.
Also, even if Miles was an anomaly, it's not like he chose to be bitten by the Spider. And the Spot is the reason why the Spider was brought into this universe in the first place. And it's not Miles' fault that Peter died, even if he is the anomaly? That would still be on Kingpin and the Spot, since it's the 42 Spider biting someone and turning them into Spiderman that ends up changing Peter's canon. If it wasn't Miles, it would have been someone else.
@@Birthday888 Dude, Miguel flats out shows evidence of the universe getting destroyed, and we witness Pav's own universe getting destroyed. Yes it is Miles fault that Peter is dead, because he's the o.g spider-man, not Miles. Is not due to the Spot, we flat out witness Miles saving the captain that was supposed to get killed dude. You can't argue agaisnt that because there's two evidences proving what happens when you don't let cannon events be cannon. If Miles wasn't bitten by the spider, Peter would've won agaisnt Kingpn, did you not understand his point about being an anomaly? Miguel has tech that allows him to TRAVEL between universes, WITNESS and ALERT when a cannon event is about to happen, and when an ANOMALY happened. How in the world he does not know that?
This is the first review I heard actually criticize the film and I'm grateful for it. This is why I trust this channel above the rest.
Valid criticisms sort of but you don’t hear much criticisms because it’s just that good. Thorias will always have criticisms lol
@@yugiblox3274 Criticism is always subjective. Personally, I thought it was terrible. Even the animation style/design which most people seem to be gushing over, I thought was overdone and headache-inducing. And I liked that aspect of the first movie. IMO it just seemed over-done here.
@@JamesBurrTV You can have too much of a good thing. They really over did it with the visuals.
@@JamesBurrTV I noticed that too with the visuals. I liked the first movie's visuals a lot better. There was way too much this time.
Same here. While I enjoyed the movie, thorias raised some very good points with the issues of the film.
Miles morales at least isn't as bad as the comcis, but honestly he's suffering from harley quinn problem, too much exposure, miles has in the past decade alone appeared in every major event in the comics, every animated series, had a entire game based around him, is staring in the sequel of that game, is now staring in a trilogy of animated movies PLUS a live action movie is apparently in the works. I understand the character is popular but he's popping up in way way to many places
They are going to replace Peter Parker with him. how are people not seeing this?
especially given Marvel's treatment of Peter lately.
@@jaredfrancis5062 That would suck. Peter has been given really BAD treatment in the comics lately.
They're both terrible characters who wound up being written to one up more popular ones. Harley Quinn was a fan service gimmick with little to no personality who got turned into someone Joker couldn't do without and Poison Ivy felt the urge to simp for.
Miles Morales is more or less the brown carbon clone of Peter Parker. You're not sick of them because of overexposure. Overexposure is simply showing how little there was to them in the first place.
I think his personality is too much like Peter's. I think he needs something like Jason Todd treatment.
In the first movie, Peter Parker plays more of a mentor. He's supposed to be Toby McGuire's Spider-man but due to scheduling, McGuire couldn't do the film. That said, he's kind of broken. He and MJ have split up and he's in the dumps. The film kind of was a preview of Spider-man No Way Home (which I loved). There are other Spider-men who interact in the movie. One is played by Nic Cage and deserves his own movie. I do recommend watching the first movie. It fleshes out Miles more and establishes Mile's and Gwen's relationship a bit. Visually it's stunning. I haven't seen this new movie yet. Including a pregnant Spider-Woman is a huge mistake that feels like filling check boxes.
I did think the preggo spiderwoman was a bit odd but after like 5mins of her I was over it and enjoyed the rest of this great movie
I would have really loved a scene where weird pregnant Jessica Drew is fighting some of the more decent bad guys, say Sandman, rhino, and shocker, and they’re spending half the “fight” trying to avoid hitting her and get her to stop only for her water to break and the the villians working together to rush her to the hospital
I guess you can go back and try to buy the comics in which she fought crime pregnant if you wanna see that. I personally wouldnt care to as the mere idea sounded awful to me lol
That comic of JD could've been handled better. My friends and I suggested what if the pregnancy was a surprise at the end. then making the reader go " oh my gosh, Spider woman been fighting bad guys without knowing she had a bun in the oven." Cliche, yes, but with better results.
It's sad, that they can't give Miles an original villain (one that wasn't Peter's foe first).
The Spot's first appearance was in Peter Parker, the Spectacular Spider-Man #97. They took so much from that appearance from Peter, and gave it to Miles...for this movie. The writers of this movie, didn't come up with The Spot kicking his own ass.
And even when facing another Miles, he is a variant of one of Peter's original foes...The Prowler.
Let Uncle Aaron (who is alive) stay the Prowler, and give Miles his own identity for once!
Miles could have been his own Spider-Hero. He could have been the immortal Shadow Spider, where Miles comes from a family that was BORN WITH SPIDER POWERS, Spider powers that deals with invisibility, bullet immunity, organic webbing, and hell, give him the power to teleport. It would have made him the first Spider Hero who doesn't get bitten by a radioactive Spider.
This is some of the most shallow criticism ever because the stories and character arcs are still entirely different.
@@robotboy1722 You just described Tarantula. (Well, except for most of the powers.) But the family powers handed down and the "immortal" title, are both used by Tarantula. He is even Hispanic, so that isn't original either.
@@dancingvalkyrie They aren't "entirely different," they are the same arcs, with some details and the parts played changed.
@@CyGea Did you even read the synopsis for his first appearance? How he originally got his powers and his motivations for fighting Spider Man in the comic are nothing like in the movie.
Yeah the pregnant Spider woman thing feels off
Plus black washed
@@GingerZombie29 She was originally Black on debut
Nvm, I stand corrected. They merged two versions of Spider-Woman...for w.e reason.
They have an entire spiderverse that could help that pregnant person out
Reminds me of the opening scene in Spy Kids 4 where the mother fights while visually pregnant. Except that was a gag in a movie that isn't meant to be taken super-seriously, at least at that moment. Spiderverse is comedic, but is still meant to have some grounded seriousness.
Very off. I mean SW could be in action, but on the sidelines while tending to her child.
What I love about this movie is the eternal conflict. The story doesn't necessarily take Miles side, it wants you to look at both sides of the same coin. Miles wants to save his dad because he believes in free will and not letting a prophecy defy you and Miguel is the responsible leader that has to teach miles that he can either save one person or the entire universe.
Yet he tries to make it seem Miles is the bad guy in the movie is dumb and he at least I hope he knows it.
If Miles is considered anomaly and wasn't supposed to exist, then why should he follow the rules. If anything you really can't hold him to the same standard.
A spiderman 2099 movie would have been better than miles morales. The issue I have with miles is that he's too derivative of peter parker.
They both got bit and both got powers, outside of that. They're nothing alike and movies and games have done a great job of making him his own. Tf are yo even talking about clown? 😂 Seriously I would say go cry somewhere else but this comment section would be the place to cry.
I would love to see a 2099 film
And agreed. Miles really is when you think about it. Never got popular until the spider verse film.
@@lovelyminx6444 Bruh, you sound like a fanboy, chill. Compared to Thorias, these comments don't even remotely come across as hateful.
@@lovelyminx6444 Conceptually, peter and miles are very similar. Miles is a teenager from a working class family living in NY and was bitten by a spider to become spiderman. Miles will always be derivative of peter. At least 2099 is a lot different since he's got a very different origin and takes place in a different setting (being in the future). It's why I like the robbie reyes ghost rider (comics not AoS) because he's very different from johnny blaze.
If you ask me, visuals are great but visuals are always secondary, if not tertiary or ancillary, to most other aspects... it's definitely not the be-all, end-all that story & script are. I come from a time when pixels on a screen and blocky low-poly-count characters moved my heart for decades to come, so, really, it's in the eye of the beholder, but I *know* that you can make a compelling and amazing story out of popsicle sticks if you have a great imagination, a story to tell and a great script. Too many people are blinded and distracted by spectacle.
True.
True. Ironically Gow Ragnarok needed alot of that-spectacle. Too focused on trying to make the veiwers cry or feel something that they forgot where they came from.
Plot twist. Beyond the spiderverse presents Miles with the option of losing his powers,never becoming spiderman and fixing all the anomalies or doing his own thing. Miles gives up his powers and the writers make peace with the fact that Miles Morales is Miles Morales.
What a pipe dream
Speaking of Miles making bad decisions, theres a scene where Miles throws pregnant Spiderwoman into an oncoming bus. This is supposed to be our hero.
She has clearly lost the baby bump so no she was not pregnant at the time
@@soilderzero2982 I'll have to check again, but I'm pretty sure she was till pregnant. I'll let you know.
@@jeggsonvohees2201 Dont bother I just checked; he's full of shit lol She was still way pregnant when Miles did that. 1 hour and 40 min in the movie.
@@budgiecat2885 Thanks! 😀
@@budgiecat2885 clearly you need your eyes check then. She was not pregnant
What sucks is they are setting up for Beyond The Spider-Verse to prove Miles right, which will make 0 sense and should doom the multiverse
I mean, they kinda set it up. Gwen's dad didn't die in the last scene she had with him and the universe did not explode.
If they're any smart they will use a loophole and bend the rules. If they were writing smart characters, they would already by looking for that loophole.
I left the movie thinking Miles was 100% wrong. Pretty sure he said he was 15, but he wasn't a kid. Then proceeded to throw a tantrum instead of talking it out and accepting that this is what a Spiderman has to go through to be Spiderman. He also should have been caught by Miguel. They did my man dirty with that.
I felt like they were telling me in the trailer and in the movie miles is more of a spiderman than any of these spiderpeople I don't like diminishing characters to raise others up
Eh, I'm kinda fine with Miles being his own Spiderman and insisting on being the decision maker in his own story -- for better or worse.
@@the_inquisitive_inquisitor That's not what the original post is talking about.
I agree to a degree. Its gimmicky. And why do the spidermen have their own rules in place over every other character? And they try to tie it into the other cinematic universes which sounds great, but it goes against the canon of other multiverse rules
Multiverses used to be a thing that existed in the background but then they became the whole thing 'cause it gave them carte blanche to "fix" and write for "modern audiences" it all went down hill, greedy corpos don't understand what made super heros special and why we loved them.
I forget if it's the same thing in the comics, so I'll use the game's explanation for Miles' bioelectricity and invisibility. In the game, Oscorp/Osborn was trying to recreate spider man's powers with some additional enhancements (bioelectricity and optical camouflage).
Which still feels tacked on and arbitrary to be honest, because it deviates from the 'Spider' concept. War Machine's suit is different from Iron Man's, but it works because it's an armored suit primarily made for combat, among other things. You can weaponize a suit in different ways and still hold true to the core that Iron Man's abilities revolve around. That doesn't work with Spider-Man, especially since his powers are genetic, not tied to a suit or weapon. Why not give Miles the ability to shoot fire and teleport at that point?
@@flarestorm9417 I guess. I'm not sure about the camouflage yet, but spiders do use electricity to either fly/glide or attract potential prey by gliding it across their webs. Sure, it is most definitely not how miles uses his power, but the bioelectricity stuff has some genetic background (however small it might be).
Also it's not like Miles is the only one spider character who has extra abilities or attributes. Miguel is part vampire and spider woman (Jessica drew) can do things that peter can't.
Edit: Got some more information on the camouflage ability and that is something regular spiders can do.
@@QTRemnant Those are what Spider-Woman does. She "glides" with her armpit webs, has bio-electric "Venom Blasts," can stick to surfaces with the bio-electricity, and also has a passive pheromone power she couldn't always control and adaptive immunity. I know A version of Spider-Man has some invisibility tech in his suit in a one season show around 2000 and the Venom symbiote can camouflage. So the reason Miles has these powers is because other Spider-characters had them.
@@robinthrush9672 True. That's just what happens with every spider character after peter and Jessica, I guess.
@@QTRemnant Yeah, even the third Spider-Woman in 616 has the bio-electric thing. Second one (in the Venom-looking suit) had psi powers.
Wow,
He's the Barry Allen of the Marvel Universe.
It's ironic that both characters have movies out now.
How is he like Barry Allen?
No, he's the New 52 Wallace West.
Is anyone surprised though ? Marvel has been trying to legitimize Miles Morales as a more improved version of Peter Parker since day one. If you can't tell, a lot of the beloved originals are being pushed out to pasture unceremoniously for 2nd or 3rd rate copycats.
You’re the first reviewer I seen, reviewing this movie honestly. Normally I have a few bones to pick with your reviews. But all I was doing here, was agreeing with you.
RUclipsr Tyrone Magnus who's not really a dedicated reviewer, gave this 3/5. Some of the stuff Thorias touched upon Tyrone said as well; (mainly the pacing)
Nah...I like Thorias but he's not reviewing this honestly, he's coming at this with an Agenda (bro didn't even watch ITSV for those same reasons)
@@justbless6074 He is one of the ONLY reviewers coming at it "honestly."
"coming at this with an Agenda" No, that is called bias, and EVERYONE has them. Honest reviewers tell you their biases, which he did. He doesn't like the Spider-verse stuff, and it's his right to complain about it, and refuse to validate the story with his participation. Many Spider-Man fans HATED the Spider-verse story-lines in the comics, and don't want to experience it again.
Many reviewers are acting/grading this movie like it is a live-action movie...it is NOT.
Flashy, amazing art, doesn't make a animated movie good. Especially when it is over-done to the point of distraction, like it is here. If you're thinking about art styles, you're not thinking about story.
It wasn't presented as a two-parter to the general public.
The story was all over the place.
They over-cooked Miles and his parents, while adding a ton of characters and giving us almost nothing about them.
Spider-Punk is just a 70s British punk stereotype.
(I don't know much about the new people, outside of what I know about them from "where-ever they were taking from, tv/movies/comics/animation.")
For some reason the algorithm got me to this channel... and i cant be more grateful. Awesome honest review
The preggo spider-women was my biggest reason for not watching this. Superheroes, multiverses and time travel I can believe, a 5 month preggo woman diving head first into danger, fighting and flipping and not having to pee every 10 minutes with swollen ankles is a bridge too far.
We don't know what she's pregnant with, it could be a whole swarm of mutated spider monsters.
The reason for Miles invisibility and electric powers was to give him an edge so he can go against seasoned villains without much training
so a Gary Stu...
@@jaredfrancis5062 you spelled "spiderman" wrong.
@@the_inquisitive_inquisitor Spiderman my ass. Peter is Spiderman. Miles is Spiderthief.
@@JavelinAngel1295 correction: Miles is "Peter Darker"
lol. of course the movie didn't include superior spiderman, kane, japanese spiderman, captain britain spiderman and cosmic powered spiderman. and in the comics that's the reason why miles didn't do anything like that from the movie. lol. i still prefer miles from spiderverse comics.
I'm glad your honest. Remember Lego movie 2. I have a feeling the Spider-verse animated movie will be oversatuation as sooner and later will get sick and tired of Multiverse. Oh man Miles just how dumb he is for making terrible decisions.
You're not too mucj in the minority. I watched the first movie and it was... okay. That's the best I can say. Was it good, yeah I guess. Definity not bad. But I also can say it's not memorable. I honestly couldn't tell you anything I remember about watching it that wasn't in the trailers. Miles is just kind of a nothing character that Marvel keeps trying to push on people who don't care for his derivative character (or any of the mindless derivatives) and all it does is annoy people. Even Marvel's Spider, Peter's first real outing in years and they couldn't wait to force several Miles segments into the game and even give him his own spin off before we even got 2. They never even bothered to ask if anyone even wanted him in the game in the first placem
I am so happy my spider-man was not in this turd! Christopher Daniel Barnes you are a treasure and made the right choice!
When we get to Earth 42 we see there’s a Miles there and no Peter. To me it stands to reason the Spider that bit Miles just bit the wrong Miles, not that a Miles was never supposed to be Spider-Man at all.
Also it’s a stretch to blame Miles for Spot’s condition. Miles didn’t start the reactor experiments, he didn’t cause his universes Peter’s death, and he didn’t cause the reactor to over load. That was all Kingpin. He’s to blame.
Spot was still a victim and Miles treated him like crap though. Also he had portals all over his body and miles was obsessed with dimensional travel. If his IQ is really as big as people said it was, I'm pretty sure he would have been able to put two and two together pretty quick and it came to realize even if he wasn't going to be a human being and treat this guy well. This guy potentially could be his way to see Gwen again. So either he was an unbearable. A hole not caring about someone whose life was ruined or he was an unbearable moron not taking up on an opportunity to fix something that is admittedly his obsession.
@@robinjameson4261Miles treated Spot like you would treat anyone who randomly tried to pick a fight with you and declared themselves your nemesis. And when he learned of Spot's backstory he immediately got kicked through a portal so there wasn't jack Miles could do
@@radioraheem9820 again, my house has enough of an intellect to know you did this to me. Might possibly mean something. Enough of an inflect to go. I've never met you followed by how could I have done anything? He spent the entire first movie coming in terms with his abilities. Do you think that he's not going to be like something that had to do with me directly might have affected this guy? Also, the spot is a living breathing collection of wormholes. It's specifically showed in the movie when he was with the guidance counselor and his parents. He's obsessed with dimensional travel. Wormholes are the stepping stones to dimensional travel. They nerfed his intelligence to hell. He has a living breathing, everything he's ever wanted in front of him and he doesn't notice it at all?
@@robinjameson4261 Miles was confused, as anyone would be since this is one of many random villians that he had faced in over a year of being Spider-Man. Miles, Kingpin, and his father were all closer to the colider when it exploded and they were unaffected by it so there was no reason to automatically assume it gave Spot his powers. And Spot's intelligence was fine in this movie, he just wasn't that athletic at first
@@radioraheem9820 I didn't say that he should assume the collider did something. Like I've done the work today. The man said that Miles created him. All miles had to do if it's like he was 1/10 of what it has ever been. Was asked how. He has enough intellect to ask the simple word. How did I do this? As a side note, separate from asking that very very simple question even if this guy did not get caused by miles. Anyone with a rudimentary intellect and a pair of eyes can see that this guy is a living breathing. Wormhole. As a side note, completely setting aside Miles having any compassion or the simple decency to ask. How did I cause this? This guy is a living breathing. Freaking wormhole. Play very much. Very big Miles has shown that he is obsessed with dimensional travel. A. Wormhole is a step in the direction. A huge step we're talking going from doing little tippy toes to jumping miles. But no, he didn't notice that because they made him dumb. So very dumb. Extra dumb.
I'm so glad I found this review! My husband and I both HATED it, but we felt like we were the only ones.
This is the first time I have disagreed with your review. Not watching Into the spider-verse and reviewing this one is a mistake with all due respect. His identity was formed in that movie very well with incredible character development. It was a love letter to all things Spiderman. I can guarantee you would have seen this one from a very different perspective had you watched the first one.
I'm glad to see a review that's not worshiping this movie like it's the second coming of Jesus or something. Personally, I felt it was above average but nothing revolutionary and I'm not a huge fan of the art style to be honest, actually gives me a headache after a while with the flickering colors, I can see this movie being a problem for people with epilepsy. It's different and unique but not my preferred style. I too love Miguel O' Hara but hated how they made him like a di*k and more of a villainous role which I didn't like but of course we have to make Miles look like the saint while punking Pete as usual, what did he have like 3 of 4 scenes? The Jessica Drew point and that dumb poster also doesn't help the movie(but people won't care about either sadly) Agreed, honestly even for a regular movie at times 2 and half hours+ that's pushing it nevermind an animated movie...
No pregnant woman would ever put herself in danger, superpowers or not
Example a female wrestler stops wrestling as early as she can
13:39 Glad you brought it up - a lot of the reviewers I usually watch shied away from the topic, because they didn’t want to criticize the movie too much! I get it - compared to The Woke Mermaid, it’s definitely beyond a masterpiece, but we still need to call them out on crap like this (or the pregnant fighting fetish, or the “trans kids” bullshit). Otherwise, there will be even more of it with each next movie!
I think that's because the movie makes it pretty apparent that a) Miguel doesn't handle the situation correctly (Seriously, he of all people should know how Miles would probably react and what he is going through), and b) Miguel doesn't have a complete understanding of the situation? Like, they even point out that they don't really know if Miles' dad dying is a canon event or not. Just that it fits the bill.
Yup, they just have to get that "message" in there...lol they can't help themselves.
@@Birthday888 If Miguel had listened to his gut and not listen to annoying preggos raceswap Jessica Drew/Valerie the Librarian from Electric Company, and not bring Gwen onto the team, she wouldnt have contacted Miles and then they wouldnt be in this mess.
Its kinda similar to the mess that 838 Dr. Strange did in MoM which resulted in whole worlds getting destroyed (Incursions) because he thought he could handle it.
also similar to the mess Sylvie created in Loki series which thanks to her opened the multiverse.
"Or the “trans kids” bullshit" Not even trying to hide your transphobia, eh? Anyway, trans lives matter!
The reason why I saw this movie was because I saw the first one and thought it was pretty good. They actually did all the dumb stuff in this movie that they kind of avoided in the first one.
This movie's only purpose seemed to be a big middle finger to all the people who say Miles Morales shouldn't exist and that Peter Parker is Spider-Man. They kept hammering that point home as hard as they possibly could throughout the entirely way too long movie's runtime.
Absolutely the best review channel on RUclips.
I really wanted to see this movie, but when I learned that the ends in a abrupt cliffhanger, I cancelled. I will never forgive movies for abrupt cliffhangers, because they never are upfront about them. Pirates of the Caribbean 2 still pisses me off to this day with that cliffhanger crap. I will wait until part two is out. Great review. lots of great points to think about
peter parker is the only spiderman, although in the comics book they turned him into a cuck and a simp, who's still in love with MJ who's not only pregnant. she's about to be married to another man.
If you rail on Spiderwoman doing action while pregnant, which is dumb, you gotta rail on Peter bringing his baby to fights too, which is dumb. Yes, the little one has powers and even keener spider sense than adults, but she's still a baby and shouldn't be in battles. It's all endangerment.
Both are extremely stupid ideas that should have never been written on paper
9:20 I feel like this reveal in the story is an unintentional allegory to the creation of Miles Morales in the first place. (though tbf, in an interview, the director and writers acknowledged they were purposely trying to draw parallels here but only to the comic fans who never felt Miles should have existed which goes against the previous film's message of 'anyone can wear the mask';' as some sort of I guess eventual payoff in the third movie which will have them 'proving the naysayers wrong' I gather.).
When Miguel says Miles should have never existed and was a mistake; and his existence only opened the floodgates of bringing in all these derivatives, that's how I feel about the actual character.
Ever since Disney bought Marvel and 2 years later Bendis created Miles based off inspiration of then Pres, Obama, a scene from Community with Danny Glover, and whatever virtue signaling race hustler bait reason Bendis said that he wanted his biracial kids to have a POC character too look up to (nevermind we already had that with Miguel, not to mention Blade, Storm,. Luke Cage, Cloak, Black Panther, Bishop, Blue Marvel; you know, actual original POC characters no based off preexisting legacy characters or white ones), we've only been inundated with the Spider-verse comic (before the movie), and dozens upon dozens of even more Spider-clones from the mundane to the absolute ridiculous.
And it didnt stop there; Miles opened the floodgates to any and ALL derivatives from various heroes,. Kate Bishop, Kamala Khan, Riri Williams, Gwenpool, the push Shuri got for the BP movie, creating sisters for Shang Chi, a successor to Iron Fist thats Asian because god forbid an Irion Fist not be Asian etc; these are 'pass the mantle' characters that try to cover up the real problem at Marvel (and Disney) which is theyve become creatively bankrupt for years now and only see product, not ingenuity and originality and passion.
So we ended up getting Miles, Cindy Moon, Anya (Arana), Spider-Gwen, Cooper Coen (Web-Weaver), that wheelchair Spider-Woman, Spider-Man India, and a slew of others and counting
We even got Miles being Captain America, and Thor and those were SO bad in the comics, the writer had to come out and apologize.
Hell, we even got Hobie Brown, the original Prowler, to be a 2015 created derivative of Spider-Man called Spider-Punk, an anarchist thief and nigh communist at times; based off an 80's real life graffiti artist who was a bit of an anarchist himself and died of a heroin overdose and prostituted himself on the streets as a teen after he got raped by a transgender.
And so this Spider-Punk in the comics, killed the president of the united states with his guitar (who happened to also be the Green Goblin AND Venom and wanted to 'Make America Great Again'; and looked like Ronald Reagan; Talk about on the nose); so yeah, great inspirations to create a hero there.
Sure, prior to Miles we had Jessica Drew, Ben Reilly, Miguel O'Hara and Julia Carpenter, but those were separated by years and decades to the point they were irrelevant to making things an issue on the whole diluting the brand as much as its happening now.
One of the main things Marvel had separate from DC was the fact they since the 60's had the talent of creating original characters. It wasnt until Filmation's attempt at creating a "Spider-Woman" in the mid 70s that sparked this whole derivative push since Marvel was afraid of other companies making unlicensed derivatives (Spider-Woman, She-Hulk, a female Captain Marvel) etc
But like I said; it was never this bad until Miles came.
When Stan Lee and Jack Kirby back in 67' wanted to create an original POC character, we got T'Challa aka Black Panther. Then we got Falcon, Luke Cage and Storm. Then Blade.
They could have back in 1967, made a black version of Spider-Man but didnt.
That was DC's thing. Thats why they had 5 Flashes, 7 Robins, multiple Green Lanters, 3 Blue Beetles etc.
But Marvel for a long period of time was kicking DC's ass because they had original and more relatable characters.
So yeah, Miles was a mistake. Thanks movie I knew that already.
Kate Bishopp existed before Miles was created. Also DC has legacy characters that are supoose to take over from their mentors.
@@zemox2534 Unlike Peter, Hawkeye didn't have to die so Kate could live. Also people hate Kate, so using a bad example to prop up Miles isn't really a good argument.
It certainly made a lot worse when the creators basically butchered Miquel for such a message and essentially reduced him into a paper-thin strawman of people who don't like Miles.
So basically Miles doesn't know that with great power comes great responsibility,
To be fair, the scene with Gwen and her dad at the end kinda implied that a "cop father" does not have to die and that Miguel is not 100% right. Afterall Gwen's dad didn't have to die.
He has a responsibility to save his dad
@@radioraheem9820 Exactly.
So basically, Miles Morales is Spider-Kang and Spider-He Who Remains is evil for trying to save the multiverse. Cool.
I'll probably watch this regardless, because pretty lights still distract me, but I'll probably turn my brain off beforehand to prevent any Phase 4-like damage.
I cheers to that.
The argument that "Miles Morales has NO identity of his own," was given weight by this movie, by making "bad" Miles, The Prowler.
Just a name from Parker-legacy super-villains, nothing original.
Aaron is still alive in this universe.
Why can't "bad" Miles have an ORIGINAL super-identity????
This was their chance to give Miles an identity of his own, outside of the Parker-legacy!!!
I was actually thinking about that part where the movie was showing that miles was supposed to become the prowler. And that’s funny as hell because it was foreshadowed in the first film when his spider sense activates and it has the colors green and purple and then turn red and blue. Marvel made comics with Miles morales being wolverine, captain America, and even Thor. And what’s funny to me is that when we say that miles isn’t Spider-Man we’re racist but marvel isn’t when promoting black stereotypes in that issue where of miles becoming Thor. It’s so stupid and asinine.
To add on to what your saying and just in general. Since this foreshadowing was shown in the first spider verse film doesn’t this mean Sony was reinforcing that idea of miles was going to become the prowler instead of Spider-Man?? So if that’s the case doesn’t that in actuality mean that he wasn’t destined to become Spider-Man? And if that’s the case that seems to enforce that miles morales is miles morales.
@@honestabe7373 It reinforces that Miles has NO identity of his own.
"Not destined to become Spider-Man," so he becomes Prowler.
Always someone else's identity, never one for Miles alone.
@@CyGea Agreed
I loved that Miles had a thing going with an original character deaf girl in the PlayStation game. She was a good character, and cute too.
When I went to see across the Spider verse, I was going to see my boy Spectacular Spider-Man and his role in the entire Movie. He was there for 5-9 seconds. This was due to having too many Spider-people. And why does this sequel has to have another sequel when they could have done it all in one shot? In all honesty, I think they're making it like this for cash grab.
I love both movies. I love your reviews. While I disagree with your take this time, I appreciate your ability to communicate your perspective in a reasoned and engaging manner. Thanks for the video!!
I will probably see it, unlike current Disney drivel, but I find it hard to get excited about it. The animation seems great, and the writers have talent (shocking nowadays) - it even seems that at least some of them don’t hate the source material or the fans (even more shocking, nowadays)! But I find it hard to get excited about it. In part, because it’s more multiverse stuff (and it’s also pretty clear why they wanted a Spider-verse in the first place). But in part, because I can see that they are under pressure to put more and more identity politics into their movies! I remember from my childhood that you can actually have propaganda that is well shot, with a good script, and great acting - but it is still propaganda, nonetheless! I wonder - are they merely paying lip service to ideology, in order to be able to make mostly great movies? Or are they drawing us in, so that they can shove increasingly large doses of dogshit down our throats?
I watched it last night and I think this is one you can wait to see until Part 2 comes out.
I didn't think anything in it was "bad" per-se, but it is an incomplete story.
Was wondering where the videos were at. Thanks for the update brother
Been sayin Miguel should've been on the screen, somehow Miles skipped in front of everyone.
It's crazy to see so many people praising the art, because that's literally the one thing keeping me from watching either movie. They both just look pretty jarring and usually just make me end up shuddering if I look at it for too long.
So you say all that without even have watched either movie...? Lol
You know that wheelchair Spidey was horrible in her comic but was pretty fun in the movie (I mean swinging via crutches vs mechanized spiderchair which sounds cooler to you)....which proves the point that execution always determines if an idea works or not.
The crutch pun got a chuckle from me.
@@simonmatrix I kinda disagree. Miles is more a wasted concept.
He's a character who hasn't been truly allowed to find his footing in the comics.
The movies are more successful in defining what makes Miles appealing.
@@rotimigbadebo9609 Basically, what Thorias said in video.
@@simonmatrix Obviously not the female ones or Hobie Brown (who canonically was the OG Prowler but Spider-Punk is a variant), Miguel O'Hara, Ben Reilly, Cooper Coen (Web-Weaver; was he even in this? I'd have to check) Peter Porker, Peter Parkedcar, Devil Dinosaur, that cat etc
Miles is worse than the wheelchair because Miles is what opened the floodgates to all this nonsense
Having a crippled Spider-Man(or Girl) doesn’t make sense since it was established in the comics that their Spider powers basically heal & genetically improve the host, so after she got her powers she shouldn’t be crippled anymore🤨
Thorias, I definitely agree with the whole “the multiverse is overused”-thing. And yes, the movie isn’t perfect. It has some problems. But I think that some of your arguments for why this movie is bad are downright stupid.
Yes, Josh Keaton was announced and confirmed to be in the movie. But it was NEVER said that he was going to have a big role or even a starring role. We were promised a cameo and we got a cameo.
Yes, some spiders are actually able to produce electricity in their webs to attract prey. Miles just uses this ability like a stinger. And Miles does not turn invisible! he uses camouflage to blend into his environment and YES, some spiders can actually do that!
Your point about the Spot makes no sense! Kingpin in the first movie created the collider that turned Spot into what he is now. You know what Miles did? He shut down the collider because it was about to blow up the entirety of New York city and maybe even the world! And you call Miles the villain in that situation? But I guess you wouldn't know that because you haven't watched the first movie!
Thorias, I love your Batwoman reviews. But you should do your research before you start complaining! I agree that everyone should have an opinion, but not when some of your points doesn’t make any sense!
from what they did to miguel o hara, i knew the movie is crap to me. since i read the spiderverse and spiderman 2099.
Miles is 1/2 black. thus he's the hero, even if he's an asshole.
My man. 👊 Voicing reason as taught by Stan Lee's Spider-Man universe, in the face of the screeching Modern Marvel Comics horde.
I really appreciated the Meta Commentary that the writers introduced into the story. "Miles breaks Cannon." "Miles is not Spiderman." These are things people have said in comment sections across the internet for going on years. It shows that they are intelligent enough to play with that in a significant way that addresses their detractors directly but still allows for the story to be well developed and consistent.
That is pretty smart plot, but doesn't change Miles' character writing. He seriously needs something like Jason Todd makeover.
@@nnnnmhughuuhhjiijj9457 Even if he does; his existence and creation alone has already damaged the brand. Miles opened the floodgates to Marvel relying solely on derivative knock offs and pass the mantles and that includes all characters now not just Spider-Man.
Its one of the reasons Phase 4 was such shit and one of the reasons the comics have been selling like shit.
Miles started off as an honest concept but in reality was dishonest.
Bendis didnt create. He didnt originate. He only imitate.
When Stan Lee and Jack Kirby saw they could make a POC character to appeal to minority comic book fans in the late 60s, they didnt make a 'black Spider-Man;'. They didnt make a derivative like DC had been known to love to do for years (all those Flash's, Robins, Lanterns, Beetle,s et)
They made Black Panther and then Falcon and then Storm and then Luke Cage.. All within the span of 10 years since 1967, 5 years after Spider-Man was created in 1062.
But Marvel doesnt have anyone like Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko.
They only have Bendis, Dan Slott, Dana Schwartz, Corey Barlog, etc.
These people arent as talented arent as unique.
And ever since Disney bought Marvel (as well as Star Wars) its only gotten worse.
Because Disney themselves have been creativeyl bankrupt for decades. Thats why Bob Iger's only solution was to 'buy up other properties'
They bought National Geographic, Pixar, Marvel, Fox, Star Wars, etc.
Hell, they even at one point bought Power Rangers for 5.8 billion (and part of Fox Family back then) and couldnt do anything with it for 9 years so they sold it back to Haim Saban for 65 million...then he turned around and sold it to Hasbro for 550 million (talk about a savvy businessman)
So yeah, Marvel has been here before, hell, they even once back in the 70s almost went under if it werent for the Star Wars comics saving the (and later G.I. Joe comics)
But yeah Miles was a later catalyst to really open the floodgates to this derivative medocrity.
We even got a Miles Thor who was SO bad the author had to apologize for it and donate his earnings to charity
@@budgiecat2885 True.
@@budgiecat2885 Also, when I was referring to 'Jason Todd's makeover'. I meant a complete rewrite, because Jason Todd was originally a clone of Dick Grayson with a same backstory before they completely rewrite him.
@@nnnnmhughuuhhjiijj9457 Yeah I get that: I wasnt arguing that; I merely was stating the damage to the company (Marvel) is already done.with these bucket loads of unoriginal characters
The fact that this movie even addresses this in a meta way by having Miles be the 'mistake' as noted by Miguel speaks volumes. Even the writers & director admitted to alluding to it in an interview; but, it was their goal to give the Miles haters a gotcha moment which I assume will be resolved in the third movie; but its still not going to change people's minds that the concept of Miles was indeed a mistake to begin with. Bendis couldnt create an original character so he took a fan request poll of people vying for actor Donald Glover to play Spider-Man, as well as the popularity of then President Obama as an excuse to make yet another Spider-Man derivative; and that opened the floodgates to many more Marvel derivatives.
And now sales are declining in comics because people see the mess that it all is.
The Spider-Verse movies are well made visually and story wise (first more than the second imo) but the concept of the Spider-Verse which existed before said movies was always dumb imo
The whole multiverse thing and pass the mantle things are clear signs of running out of ideas. Every time.
there’s actually a lot of clues that miguel isn’t a reliable narrator. First, he attempts to end the vultures life by biting into his neck with fangs, he never even returned him to his dimension, he wasn’t planning on it in the first place. In the indian spider city, that corrupted hole in the ground was created by spot merging with the collider and crashing the building 200 stories into the ground. Next, we see miguel taking spider drugs to retain his powers. When he’s explaining his backstory, he explains that he replaced a version of HIMSELF who had DIED in that universe, and as his universe was unraveling we see Peter B is there? there’s clearly something more to that. the truth is miguel isn’t spider-man either, he takes those drugs to be spider-man, Miles even has a line about this “are those claws? dude, are you sure you’re even spider-man?” this is treated as a throwaway line, but given everything else, there are absolutely details that miguel has omitted.
fantastic video though, love ur vids man.
Oh, they are making his own story, the story of how he is the best of all the Spiderman and he isn't even suppose to be one (like them) but because he is the "unique" Spiderman a.k.a. Black he will be better than all those other Spiderman in the end. Watch the new live action Spiderman man appearance will have Miles.
The spectacular spider man is so gooooddd. Can’t believe that canceled it on that cliffhanger.
I legit thought it was pretty awesome, no pandering of any kind...except race swapping Spider Woman and making her pregnant which just felt weird, but otherwise the characters were fun, animation was great, I had a good time. My only real complaint is other than Gwen and Peter B none of the other spiders from the previous movie show up for anything but a brief cameo.
Agreed
Yeah. Looks like we're going to get them in the next one though, so silver lining.
It wss dumb fun, kind of like Hollywood blockbuster but just like them, it's not very smart in my opinion.
Spider woman wasn't race swapped there's actually a black spider woman in the comics.
@@lovelylife3012 Doesn't matter, the most well known Spider woman named Jessica Drew is a White woman.
To me the Spiderverse animation style is the equivalent of shakycam.
In the first movie it was a stylistic choice. In this one they went so overboard it was like being beaten around the head with a bag of fireworks.
Always a better day with a Thorias upload
What? The Gwen and Miles relationship wasn’t forced. It felt organic and they had good chemistry.
Your opinion is wrong.
@@frankie3010I didn’t have a problem with their relationship
Miles' "electricity" is called his "venom blast."
Because spiders have venom.
And he doesn't turn invisible, he is in camouflage mode.
Because some spiders have camouflage.
That's how Marvel explains it.
Big cats have camo too or prey mantis or stick insects. It's not a good explanation but a lazy one. Why stop there why not give him flight and laser vision. Venom blast wasn't actual electricity you could throw it was more like an eel, it needed physical contact. The Spiderman games are doing this and it looks cartoony.
It's clearly portrayed here as an electrical thing. Referred to mulitple times. He shorts out electrical equipment. He is hanging in front of Gwen, in kissing distance, with nothing around him. She can't see him. That's invisibility. I agree that comics Miles has the traits you mention. This movie has little to do with that.
@@guyjperson This is nothing more than MARVEL'S very bad explanation of why Miles' has these extra "Spider" powers.
It is NOT arguable.
These movies, haven't addressed it, the first one just said, "It must be a fight or flight thing."
Because why would they want to point out the stupidity of Miles' extra NON-spider powers, by going into detail?
@@CyGeado you know how many spidermen have extra (non spider) powers
@@radioraheem9820 Plenty.
But those guys aren't the movie's lead Spider-Man.
When you have your main character named Spider-Man, having non-spider powers, needs explanation (or it is just weird).
Imagine not seeing A New Hope and then being upset that you don't understand Empire Strikes Back. Basically this entire "review".
Thank God. I'm not the only one. I was extremely disappointed in this movie and this movie has so many flaws it's annoying.
Things that made no sense in the movie
Miles Morales didn't get Peter Parker killed. You could say maybe spiderman gave up after he gave the USB away but I don't think it's clear enough to say it's Miles' fault.
What did everyone discuss about doing with Miles? It seems he was supposed to be quarantined from all other universes.
Why didn't Miles universe collapse not following canon but Mumbai universe did begjn collapse directly because of Miles forcing canon not to happen. Is only Miles universe allowed to not follow canon?
Spiderman doesn't tell people he is spiderman because he is afraid to put them in danger. This movie made it an allegory about being accepted even if you are different (canon alteration).
Spiderman 2099 is the original anomaly since he destroyed a universe by living in it when he wasn't supposed to.
Alcamex is in multiple universes and I feel it's odd that only one in the entire multiverse successfully launched its universal thing.
Spot is the one causing issues, not miles.
Miles lost Aaron and it wasn't addressed but forced to be that he should lose his father as well with no explanation other than "he has to die because I said so"
Maybe in the next movie it answers all this and they did a poor job editing but as a stand alone film, it is a bad film.
Infinity war wasn't a good movie because of end game. It was a good movie because it was a good movie.
BRAVO WELL DONE THORIAS 👍👏👏👏
I really wish that we had a more serious Peter Parker in these films, all the other Spider-People are down to Earth and Miles himself is far better than how he is in the comics at least but Peter himself is just a goofball who everybody looks down on and it’s irritating because when we have a Peter like Web of Shadows or Edge of Time Spider-Man the story flows more naturally but here he feels like he’s just there for the sake of it.
We do but theyre either dead, sidelined or have like one line (Spectacular).
If you havent figured it out by now, both in this movie, and in the current comics, Marvel has been trying to push Peter to the back of the line so they can promote his variants more; to the point of making Peter worse in his iterations.
The current Peter Parker in the comics is so cucked right now its not even funny.
Its that whole 'destroy a legacy character to build up a 'pass the mantle' one Disney is a part of.
We see it in Star Wars, Marvel comics, the MCU and now Indiana Jones.
Now we got dumb idiots drinking all this kool-aid saying shit like "Spider-Man was never a character he was a mantle", and people disingenuously misquoting Stan Lee (which the first movie did as well), by saying that "anybody can be Spider-Man" which was based off his Larry King interview where he said that it was an unintentional design that they gave Peter a full mask when creating him but it was a good 'mistake' in that it allowed for so many kids of all backgrounds to cosplay as him. THATS what it meant. Not that in the comics 'anyone can be Spider-Man'. lol
THAT is Marvel corporate taking his words and using it as a green light to make 151 derivatives and knock-offs further diluting the brand and showing theyre creatively bankrupt and only care about product.
@@budgiecat2885 Believe me I’m more than well aware about what’s going on with him in the comics rn, what they fail to understand is that no matter how hard they try ruining Peter he will always be seen as Spider-Man and nothing will change that and since the people at Marvel are creatively bankrupt there’s nothing they are capable of doing that makes Miles or Gwen more likeable than Peter ever will be.
@@RogueFox2185 Look what Disney has done to the Star Wars legacy characters. Its like rinse and repeat here.
@@budgiecat2885 At this point I only acknowledge the EU as canon, it wasn’t perfect by all means but they actually succeeded with their goals after defeating the Empire. With Disney Star Wars there’s not a single legacy character that didn’t end up as a failure, but back to the main topic of Marvel however I’ll be honest I never thought I would hear about a run possibly worse than OMD but Zeb Wells pulled it off with the way he’s cucked Peter thanks to Paul (Screw Paul btw, I hope his ass gets taken out by a Supervillain) and has the whole world hating him for no reason.
Web of,Shadows Peter was a terrible take on the character as he felt overly dramatic and Edge of Time Peter felt more meh at times. The only balance Peter I can think of is Marvel Spider-Man version on PlayStation 5 and they only messed up his face to make him more like the MCU version of the character in the remastered version.
But but hes blllllack!!!
I wasn't planning on seeing this anyway, and you did not change my mind. I'm sorry you felt it necessary to sit through this.
It's refreshing to see a take that isn't ridiculously positive while also being frustratingly vague, like every review on this movie is. I don't trust anything that only has positive buzz about it.
I'm glad someone brought up Pregnant Spider-Woman. Its literally insane.
Very good & honest film review, Thorias. of the latest Spiderverse animated film. I'm looking forward to more new videos soon. :)
I liked the picture of the 3-person pointing party on the vid "cover". Very clever.
I hope watching across the spider verse makes you want to watch into the spider verse. These movies are such a treat for actual Spider-Man fans. Fuck the comics these days.🤷🏾♂️
True.
I think this is the first time I dislike a video. I disagree with pretty much everything you say in this video up to a point except on the length part. It is too long half an hour should have been cut. Other than that the fact that you are hating miles for trying to save his dad is beyond me. Even if it were true that the only way to save the multiverse was to letting his father die, could you do it? Letting someone you love and care just die not even being able to see them one last time. I wouldn't be able to and I hope neither do you. Because that would tell me that you are a really unempathetic person. Is that what miles should have done for you to not hate him? Really? Regarding the Spot, Miles is just not guilty for what happened to him, Kingpim is. The collider existing was his fault, miles was effectively just trying to stop a bomb from destroying his city. A bad guy in your eyes I guess... And he did not try to sympathise with him, but first he didn't knew and after that the spot was constantly putting civilians in danger so I don't know. I guess probably peter would have been more sympathetic then again he is not peter. You were complaining about them not having differences right?. I would have like him more if he did maybe, but saying he is the bad guy for that, not at all. I do like Peter Parker more however you should probably put your "big boy" pants and accept that it is not his film is miles. And saying they are ridiculing peter b parker for being a father and being happy for his child? Seriously? This just makes me think you hate the movie because your peter b parker is not the protagonist and Miguel o Hara was the villain. Because yes, he was the villain, a sympathetic villain but a villain nonetheless. He was freaking screaming to miles that he was a mistake. I do understand him but he is the antagonist of the story(I did like him a lot). Ok I do agree that a pregnant woman should have not been there but also peter b parker should have left his child at home.
I also feel that the miles morales you are complaining about for being too similar to peter is not the one in the movie is the one in the comic. I think that movie miles just shares the nerdy side with peter, just that. The fact the he is in love with Gwen for me is just natural, a kid his age who understand what is happening to him and who he doesn't need to keep secrets from. I don't think there is crazy chemistry between them but not every couple needs to have it
Other than that I think is a solid movie not as good as the first one but the problems I had with it you didn't mention(other than the length). Also for something you say didn't care you did get pretty heat up about it...
the spiderverse is bascially created to shit on peter parker... you dont miss anything for not watching the 1st one..
Glad to see someone else noticed there was no third act.
The chase scene was amazing, but the movie did drag out and I was checking the time as well in the wait for the third act... Then the movie ended. Huh.
I am so glad now that I walked out before half way through this movie.
I loved Spider-Baby.
May-Day is my second favorite Spider-person (after Peter).
I'd say she be just as affective as Spider-Cat in a fight.
She reminded me of "baby in danger" cartoons, where the kid Mr Magoos their way through a dangerous situation.