Thanks for the video and especially for Nick's impressions about Firebird. I was considering that one but yes, the chainstays seems too short for a modern bike.
Love these discussions Brian, thanks for sharing! I have limited experience with different bikes but from a what I have learned over three years with modern bikes is that I like a slack head tube, long chainstays and high bottom bracket. I have a steel enduro bike and it has a 480 reach, 64 degree head angle and adjustable chainstays from 435 to 450mm. Currently I ride with the chainstays in the middle position so maybe 443mm. I run a bunch of spacers under the stem and 35mm rise bars with 9degree backsweep so that shortens up the reach a bit. I am 5'10" I have washed the front at times, been thinking of getting a -1 degree headset to bring the bars back a bit. I like where the front wheel is now but could easily try a 63ha and I think the shorter reach will help me weigh the front better. But first I will slide the wheel back all the way in the dropouts. My hardtail is super slack I have a -2 angleset on that bike. It makes the reach super short but the wheelbase is long. Chainstays on that bike is 438mm and reach probably around that number too. Keep the content coming, I have an injured wrist so I cant shred right now.. Cheers
I'm new to MTB and I'm certainly not racing stock, but I've been tending toward longer rear ends (especially since my wrist injury). Not having to consciously weight the front wheel is helping me feel more confident because the weight is off my wrist, and today I got the opportunity to use a longer stem (35mm -> 45mm) it feels a lot more optimal. Long, low and slack makes 0 sense to me as a beginner since I haven't really developed the technique for bike/body separation yet. I've got a Vitus Sommet 290 in Large, set up as a mullet (every 29er I've tried has buzzed me) and if I could make the rear end longer, I would. I like hearing your theories on bike handling as it differs from what the industry has been doing for the past 5 or so years.
i want a banshee phantom (don't live near mountains). different bike but banshee is doing a lot of things right, premium alloy , decent geo, decent pricing, swappable drop outs, progressive (coil friendly) linkages through the whole range, decent cable routing, and they just look great , priced right i have a build idea that would be very comfortable, very resistant to wear, as a kind of a marathon XC trail tool for long rocky rides
I Think you would have loved the Raaw Madonna V3. High Stack but with reasonable STR, long chainstay with adjustability +/- 5mm longer/shorter for every size
I've ended up happy with my short cs bike by going with a 50mm stem. Definitely the shorter stems these bikes come stock with make is so easy to wash the front end.
Nice, I'd agree that putting a longer stem is often an excellent solution to getting weight on the front and getting it the front end hook up. This works great on flatter trails but I have found in the past that when you set up a bike like this it becomes a bit scary to ride on the steeps.
@@briancahal Yea, I live in vancouver and primarily ride the north shore and Squamish so no strange to the steeps. The bikes I ride on have a 63.5 and 64 deg ht angle with 180 forks. If it was less slack and shorter forked i'd agree it would be more scary.
Yoann rides a bigger bike that guy shreds. But it comes down to what your style of riding and what you are comfortable with. I am 6’1 185cm I went with the XL size banshee I haven’t ridden yet still building it up. I am super excited about this thanks for the share
Yeah I think bigger sizing is all good as long as it’s balanced. If I were to get this bike again I’m not sure if I’d go with the large or the xl. Curious how it goes for you
@@briancahal yeah I was riding a commencal meta tr v4 size L. 490mm and 435 cs awesome bike but I rode a XL Rocky Mountain altitude with the longer CS setting dude I felt so neutral and actually more playful on the bike and that reach is a 510mm just a tad stretched out with a 40mm stem. Just gotta get up to par jumping. So I did my research funny the Rocky is my dads he wanted to get that Titan a couple of years back lol now I have it.
Don't have a titan but for the DH Rockies race season I got a Banshee Legend XL (480 reach, 473 cs, 645 stack) and I'm pairing it with a wacky stem which is honestly more like a moto clamp - 18mm reach, 38mm rise. I also have a custom link to make the bike mullet and reduce progression to about 17%. Gonna test a lot of ideas out!
The Orange Stage 7 has the best geo of any Enduro race bike that I've seen. The one review that's online praises the bike to no end. They're mad money though.
@@briancahal Yeah man, 16mm in difference between the reach and CS on a large, talk about being centered on the sucker. The size small has a 10mm longer CS than its reach which is mental. Having thrown a leg over a large (me being 177cm) at Malverns Classic last year, it felt like a perfect fit for me. SQ lab bars, 30mm stem and I couldn't imagine a better bike. Loving the content too btw 👍🏻.
Im very interested in the Banshee Titan. Where did you land on the Geometron? Long reach experiment over? How does the rear suspension feel compare between these 2 bikes?
Long reach experiment isn't over haha I've got a couple more things to try on the geometron and want to spend some more time on it. It's been too long since I've ridden the banshee so I don't think I can give a fair comparison
Nice opinions on the Banshee Titan. Just wondering how tall are you guys and what size are you riding? I have an Evil Offering, Its a large and has 490reach, I'm 183cm am I'm starting to feel like it might be to long. I think I might get a shorter stem. I just came across this vlog after watching Rulezman swearing by the Banshee and long reach but short stem.
Would love to here your take on an evil Offering or wreckoning to take this conversation is the other direction of wheelbases. I've never seemed to jive with the longer wheelbase on my altitude.
I've ridden the reckoning briefly. Unfortunately I think Evil is a bit behind on chain stay length and the ones I've ridden have felt unbalanced and light on the front wheel. I actually love their suspension, it feels incredible and if they adopted some size specific chain stays I think they would be great. Wheel base wise I think they operate in a similar window to a lot of other brands.
Shorter the chainstay, the more weight is over the rear tire. Ideal riding position/technique, you should be able to drive force through your feet and get both ends of the bike to dig in. In an ideal world you wouldn’t be weighting your hands significantly in corners/while pumping. If your rear end is too short. You pump the axis of a corner and the rear wheel digs in, but the front doesn’t grab as hard and understeers. A good example of this is Jeff Kendall-weeds video on the Shuttle SL today. He washes the front and can’t comprehend why it happened… It’s pretty obvious what happened, and that’s on a medium.
For me personally it kills the fun. I figured out that for me reach should be the same as chainstay or probably chain stay a bit shorter by 1-2 cm at 170 mm 27.5 fork and 64° head angle. I also have a relatively high stack for my height, that also influences the weight distribution.
For a while I've thought that wheelbase has a bigger impact on how a bike actually 'feels' and rides than reach. Seems to me the industry is too focused on reach numbers as a way of choosing a bike. Personally I think it's better to think of reach as a fit measurement rather than being a defining performance measurement.
Both are great bikes but they are different. I would be hard-pressed to say which one I liked better, plus it's been a bit longer since I've ridden the banshee. I'd love to ride one again and compare.
Yeah i was interested in this comment too, because out of all the bikes you've ridden lately, the banshee and the dreadnought seem to share similar geo with that high stack and chainstay length, albeit the forbidden having longer reach numbers and a totally different suspension design with that high-pivot.
I think it mainly comes down to suspension performance and how the high pivot effects things. The banshees suspension is really good but feels a bit more conventional. Super predictable and a little more playful and efficient especially with the 450 chain stay. If you want something that's going to be a bit more composed suspension wise through the roughest stuff and like the fact that the chain stay lengthens through the travel the dreadnought is probably better.
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The high stack, long CS idea is exactly where I want to go on my next bike.
Thanks for the video and especially for Nick's impressions about Firebird. I was considering that one but yes, the chainstays seems too short for a modern bike.
Love these discussions Brian, thanks for sharing!
I have limited experience with different bikes but from a what I have learned over three years with modern bikes is that I like a slack head tube, long chainstays and high bottom bracket.
I have a steel enduro bike and it has a 480 reach, 64 degree head angle and adjustable chainstays from 435 to 450mm. Currently I ride with the chainstays in the middle position so maybe 443mm.
I run a bunch of spacers under the stem and 35mm rise bars with 9degree backsweep so that shortens up the reach a bit. I am 5'10"
I have washed the front at times, been thinking of getting a -1 degree headset to bring the bars back a bit. I like where the front wheel is now but could easily try a 63ha and I think the shorter reach will help me weigh the front better.
But first I will slide the wheel back all the way in the dropouts.
My hardtail is super slack I have a -2 angleset on that bike. It makes the reach super short but the wheelbase is long. Chainstays on that bike is 438mm and reach probably around that number too.
Keep the content coming, I have an injured wrist so I cant shred right now..
Cheers
I'm new to MTB and I'm certainly not racing stock, but I've been tending toward longer rear ends (especially since my wrist injury). Not having to consciously weight the front wheel is helping me feel more confident because the weight is off my wrist, and today I got the opportunity to use a longer stem (35mm -> 45mm) it feels a lot more optimal. Long, low and slack makes 0 sense to me as a beginner since I haven't really developed the technique for bike/body separation yet. I've got a Vitus Sommet 290 in Large, set up as a mullet (every 29er I've tried has buzzed me) and if I could make the rear end longer, I would. I like hearing your theories on bike handling as it differs from what the industry has been doing for the past 5 or so years.
i want a banshee phantom (don't live near mountains). different bike but banshee is doing a lot of things right, premium alloy , decent geo, decent pricing, swappable drop outs, progressive (coil friendly) linkages through the whole range, decent cable routing, and they just look great , priced right i have a build idea that would be very comfortable, very resistant to wear, as a kind of a marathon XC trail tool for long rocky rides
The phantom build sounds rad. Yeah banshee checks a lot of boxes for me too.
ive ridden my rune in 60 mile endurance xc races, they are comfortable bikes
Forget about the decent cable routing
Be curious to hear your thoughts on the Commencal Meta SX V4
I Think you would have loved the Raaw Madonna V3. High Stack but with reasonable STR, long chainstay with adjustability +/- 5mm longer/shorter for every size
I've ended up happy with my short cs bike by going with a 50mm stem. Definitely the shorter stems these bikes come stock with make is so easy to wash the front end.
Nice, I'd agree that putting a longer stem is often an excellent solution to getting weight on the front and getting it the front end hook up. This works great on flatter trails but I have found in the past that when you set up a bike like this it becomes a bit scary to ride on the steeps.
@@briancahal Yea, I live in vancouver and primarily ride the north shore and Squamish so no strange to the steeps. The bikes I ride on have a 63.5 and 64 deg ht angle with 180 forks. If it was less slack and shorter forked i'd agree it would be more scary.
Yoann rides a bigger bike that guy shreds. But it comes down to what your style of riding and what you are comfortable with. I am 6’1 185cm I went with the XL size banshee I haven’t ridden yet still building it up. I am super excited about this thanks for the share
Yeah I think bigger sizing is all good as long as it’s balanced. If I were to get this bike again I’m not sure if I’d go with the large or the xl. Curious how it goes for you
@@briancahal yeah I was riding a commencal meta tr v4 size L. 490mm and 435 cs awesome bike but I rode a XL Rocky Mountain altitude with the longer CS setting dude I felt so neutral and actually more playful on the bike and that reach is a 510mm just a tad stretched out with a 40mm stem. Just gotta get up to par jumping.
So I did my research funny the Rocky is my dads he wanted to get that Titan a couple of years back lol now I have it.
Don't have a titan but for the DH Rockies race season I got a Banshee Legend XL (480 reach, 473 cs, 645 stack) and I'm pairing it with a wacky stem which is honestly more like a moto clamp - 18mm reach, 38mm rise. I also have a custom link to make the bike mullet and reduce progression to about 17%. Gonna test a lot of ideas out!
Killer! The legend is high on the list of dh bikes I'd like to try. Keep us updated sounds like a rad build.
Yeah I'm fired up. Got a dorado on it too! @@briancahal
Love my titan great bikes and platform
Appreciate the support and kind words 🤘
The Orange Stage 7 has the best geo of any Enduro race bike that I've seen. The one review that's online praises the bike to no end. They're mad money though.
Damn 468 chain stay goes hard, never even looked at that bike before. Thing looks sick!
@@briancahal Yeah man, 16mm in difference between the reach and CS on a large, talk about being centered on the sucker. The size small has a 10mm longer CS than its reach which is mental. Having thrown a leg over a large (me being 177cm) at Malverns Classic last year, it felt like a perfect fit for me. SQ lab bars, 30mm stem and I couldn't imagine a better bike. Loving the content too btw 👍🏻.
Im very interested in the Banshee Titan. Where did you land on the Geometron? Long reach experiment over? How does the rear suspension feel compare between these 2 bikes?
Long reach experiment isn't over haha I've got a couple more things to try on the geometron and want to spend some more time on it. It's been too long since I've ridden the banshee so I don't think I can give a fair comparison
The Forbidden Dreadnought is now 460 chainstay on the S3
Is it right to say ‘short cs, long reach, tall bars - pick two’?
Have a prime and would love to switch frames to a titan and see the difference
I have a titan and phantom. I love banshee
Nice opinions on the Banshee Titan. Just wondering how tall are you guys and what size are you riding? I have an Evil Offering, Its a large and has 490reach, I'm 183cm am I'm starting to feel like it might be to long. I think I might get a shorter stem. I just came across this vlog after watching Rulezman swearing by the Banshee and long reach but short stem.
I’m 6’1” and Nik is 5’11” that bike is tough because I feel like you need a bit of a longer stem to weight the front wheel without a longer chainstay.
@@briancahal Thanks. The higher stack thing, wouldn't a couple of spacers do the trick on a low stack frame? or a high rise handle bar?
Would love to here your take on an evil Offering or wreckoning to take this conversation is the other direction of wheelbases.
I've never seemed to jive with the longer wheelbase on my altitude.
I've ridden the reckoning briefly. Unfortunately I think Evil is a bit behind on chain stay length and the ones I've ridden have felt unbalanced and light on the front wheel. I actually love their suspension, it feels incredible and if they adopted some size specific chain stays I think they would be great. Wheel base wise I think they operate in a similar window to a lot of other brands.
@@briancahal what attributes of frame geometry are you contributing to a light feeling front wheel? In general, not specifically evil.
Shorter the chainstay, the more weight is over the rear tire.
Ideal riding position/technique, you should be able to drive force through your feet and get both ends of the bike to dig in.
In an ideal world you wouldn’t be weighting your hands significantly in corners/while pumping.
If your rear end is too short. You pump the axis of a corner and the rear wheel digs in, but the front doesn’t grab as hard and understeers.
A good example of this is Jeff Kendall-weeds video on the Shuttle SL today. He washes the front and can’t comprehend why it happened…
It’s pretty obvious what happened, and that’s on a medium.
@@alexthemtbr ok that makes logical sense, I'm with ya. At a certain point you have to be sacrificing agility? Short board vs longboard
Any drawbacks on the medium Banshee with the chainstay being longer than the reach?
For me personally it kills the fun. I figured out that for me reach should be the same as chainstay or probably chain stay a bit shorter by 1-2 cm at 170 mm 27.5 fork and 64° head angle. I also have a relatively high stack for my height, that also influences the weight distribution.
Not sure as I’m not a medium sized rider but i liked some older bikes I had where the reach was about the same as the chainstay
i rode a year 2000 K2 monkey for 24 years it just got stolen , so much to update , my next bike will be like going in the future.
For a while I've thought that wheelbase has a bigger impact on how a bike actually 'feels' and rides than reach. Seems to me the industry is too focused on reach numbers as a way of choosing a bike. Personally I think it's better to think of reach as a fit measurement rather than being a defining performance measurement.
Sounds like Brian should start making his own frames?
A massive undertaking and I don’t know the first thing about building frames haha. I’ll stick with testing them for now
@@briancahal bro I'm certain you are more than capable. Your reviews are top notch.
Cheers from New Zealand 🇳🇿
what if head tube was a hinge
What happened to Forbidden Dreadnought? Is Titan better?
Both are great bikes but they are different. I would be hard-pressed to say which one I liked better, plus it's been a bit longer since I've ridden the banshee. I'd love to ride one again and compare.
Yeah i was interested in this comment too, because out of all the bikes you've ridden lately, the banshee and the dreadnought seem to share similar geo with that high stack and chainstay length, albeit the forbidden having longer reach numbers and a totally different suspension design with that high-pivot.
I think it mainly comes down to suspension performance and how the high pivot effects things. The banshees suspension is really good but feels a bit more conventional. Super predictable and a little more playful and efficient especially with the 450 chain stay. If you want something that's going to be a bit more composed suspension wise through the roughest stuff and like the fact that the chain stay lengthens through the travel the dreadnought is probably better.
What about a transition spire for you?
The spire looks good, Nik rode that bike for the past year or so. I think we’ll cover it in another episode.
Not the first cracked bike nik has bought 😂