I still run a 10 speed Shimano cassette 11-40T with XTR shifter/derailleur. Stayed w a smaller cassette to keep the chain length moderate. Mated w a Sram Eagle 32 chain ring, it shifts flawlessly and is dead quiet and no chain slap. Like you said, "just get more fit." Most don't need a cassette the size of a dinner plate, like Sram 12 speed Eagle. Good vid about being practical and to use reliable parts rather than expensive ones.
I'm using 11-speed as well. My setup is XT 11 speed rear derailleur + xt shifter, xtr 11 speed chain, xt 11-46 cassette, 12 speed slx crankset with Chinese Aluminum chainring. It saves 380 grams in total compared to an 11-50t NX groupset which comes to a lot of $3000 dollar bikes. Also, another big financial advantage for 11 speed Shimano cassette is, that the hg driver wheelsets are heavily discounted. I bought my brand new Mavic XA Elite 27.5 carbon rear wheel with HG driver for only $270. It is a pretty solid wheel.
Still using the ole 2017 xtr Rd and shifter, with a SLX 11-46t cassette. 34t chainring. Im still impressed. The RD still shifts like a champ after 7 yrs of usage and abuse. 😊💪
I just feel the cheaper options are such a better deal and like you say it does not change how much fun i'm having on my bikes, so there is no way I'm going to pay the big money for AXS or any wireless drivetrains. I could buy it but it's just not worth it in my opinion. I also prefer aluminum rims, the Santa Cruz aluminum wheelset is lifetime warranty for a decent price!
I just had this conversation with someone. I built my ‘23 Stumpy EVO, and carried over my Shimano 11sp XT setup. I had to swap out the XT derailleur for a Deore 5100, but I can’t feel a difference, and when it gets smashed on a rock, only cost $35-$40 to replace.
I run Advent X and have no plans to change it unless it breaks in a major way. For what I ride I don't even need bigger range than 11-48, on a 32t chainring, it's perfect.
11 speed xtr, I’ve actually been on the same derailleur for 3 bikes now, close to 10,000 hard miles on it. Just rebuild the clutch every 100 hours or so, and it stays mint. 12 speed and electronic shifting can piss right off.
I'm running a 11 Speed Garbaruk 10-50T cassette with a 11speed X01 shifter paired with a 12 speed X01 rear deraileur. Works and shifts a dream! More space for 11 gears rather than 12 speed, keeps the system running smooth even if you bend your hanger! I use a 12 speed chain, which bites in tightly on the cassette. I can only recommend this setup!
Really similar setup but the "regular guy" gearing (30T front, E13 Helix 9-46 rear). All the range and low-speed I need, reliable, affordable, and light for the money.
i love xt 11 speed. i run it on all my custom builds, its so cheap and just works, if you hit your derailleur and it bends a little its more likely to still shift ok over 12 speed because of the spacing. just so so reliable and cheap
I'm running a used XTR 11sp derailleur, a used XTR shifter, XT cassette and XTR chain on a custom Marino steel fullsus frame. By going used drivetrain I saved a bunch of money, plus I get the badge recognition of the XTR bits splashed around.
I’ve been actively switching back from eagle to 11-speed xt with each new bike I’ve gotten. I completely agree that the ONE bit of the bike that can ripped off should not be $400-500
I still run 11 speed as well and just purchased parts to refresh my drivetrain: - RaceFace steel chainring for $20 - XT 11-46 cassette for $50 - SRAM PC1130 chain for $10 - SLX derailleur pulleys for $11 - Cable and housing I already have on hand Sure I can upgrade to a new bike (I demo a bunch) but for under $100 to keep my bike running like new, I’ll take the more “sustainable” and economical option
Saint 10spd shifter[$44] moving Zee 10 speed short cage(11-38 wrap)[$52] with Goatlink(effective 11-43)[$20], wraping HG-95[$38] over sunrace CSMX3[$55] 11-42 blk, pulled by E13 Helix with 34t or 30t ring[$190] depending on trail system. Shifts best with Shimano chain over CSMX3 cassette, compared to KMC chain. Shimano CUES LINKGLIDE in this range looks nice too, and is cheaper than my grouping here.
That is exactly my approach as well. I am running sram x5 9spd with 11-36 shimano cassette, 34T chainring upfront. Cassette costs 12euros with life expectancy ~7k km in my riding conditions.
You should try VHS 2.0 chain stay protector. The bike is already quite quiet, but this makes it even quieter. It's robust, I have Archer D1X Trail and to remove batteries I twist it up which has not been an issue, it's very secure. It uses VHB adhesive same ad adhesive pads on GoPro mounts, so will last a long time.
@briancahal this cassette is top notch. There used to be a range extender coq made by one-up or wolf tooth for this cassette, where you could change the biggest coq for a 44t or a 46t adding. Which is actually nice because it's the first coq to wear out. Plus they weight only 10-20 g more then the stock ones. However, I can not find them anymore! So if you ever find some of those, buy stock!
Good video. I have used Microshift AdventX, SRAM eagle and Shimano XTR 12 speed. My XT 11 speed /Praxis drivetrain is by far the most reliable. I do not race, but I ride almost everyday. Love how dependable it is!
Advent seems awful, the clutch has a lot of play before it engages. I've not tried it. But seen a vid on it. But cassette gets chewed up, a guy put it under a microscope, it's on RUclips, same issues with Sun Race. Sharp edges at teeth and ramps. But I've tried Sunrace the teeth and cogs bend.
I'm running for all the same reasons. Lighter, cheaper, etc, etc. I also run 26t up front because my trails in PNW are punchy and I don't need the top end speed for my day to day riding.
Awesome idea, I am gonna throw some 11S bits on my playtime bike next refresh and I'm pretty sure I won't miss 1 extra gear and enjoy extra runtime. My monster gravel bike with 2.35 tires has the same 11S setup. It works very well and can't wait to compare 👍🏼
30 tooth chainring and I'm pounding that 10 tooth cog pretty much everyday! I use a 12 speed TRP tr12 with a 10-45 cassette I pretty much hate the cross tension feel in the bigger cogs, indexing is a pain to adjust... I must go up too... I live just next to two abandoned ski stations 🚂 down fhe hill every frigging day 😂
Running an XT body/SLX steel cage, 11 speed 11-46t XT cassette, KMC chain on my G1. Spend your money on the best suspension and bike that will last. Wheels that are durable and repairable. Most expensive drivetrains have such low gears you would be faster and more efficient pushing your bike up the hill.
Been using the very similar Sunrace CSMX8 11-46 aluminum spider cassette for years now on my 11-speed setup. Same weight, but Half the cost of Xt. I do however use a 30t absolute black oval chainring to focus the drivetrain more for climbs instead of top speed. Unbreakable SLX derailleur, KMC chain, and raceface cranks. Cheap and very effective for my ‘19 GT Sensor
I’m right there with you. 11 speed on my mtb. Love this video. On my ebike I run a 10 speed cassette and Saint rear derailleur. 12 speed is over hyped!
I run 3x7 in 2023 on my MTB. It works perfectly well coz I keep it clean and fine tuned. Shifting is flawless. I use my MTB both on road and off-road. So I need the wider selection of gears. I have 22/34/42 front and 11-28 rear. I'm happy with this setup and no modern bs hype will ever convince me that a 1x is better for me.
I too run 11 speed but with 11-50t HG Garbaruk cassette, it's around 300g, cheaper and lighter than the top modes from Sram and Shimano, ths goes for the cd and Microspline 52t cassettes too. But still not super cheap, but it's quality an light. 32t oval which eliminated knee pain. DEORE M6100 SGS rear derailleur. It's cheap and works. I got mine for a great price too. I use Archer D1xtrail with paddle remote, electronic shifting with any mechanical Rd. I need it for ergonomics and thumb misalignment issue. If you don't need it that's great. 11-50t with 32t works for me, still have good tops speed, and 50t is nice for speed climbs. I've not tried 30t. That might work too, but will sacrifice topspeed on long straight sprints.
Brian, love the concepts youre doing, but I think a better comparison to this would have been on a Eagle GX groupset, which retail with crank for a little under $600, and can be found on sale for under $500. While I agree on the top end speed, and on the fitness aspects - since moving to a 50T/52T ring Ive found myself way less fatigued on longer all-day rides.
Smart stuff! You can also dremel off the big cog on a 12-speed cassette to make it run longer. And I think those xt 11-speed shimano derailleurs will work on the shimano 12-speed 45 tooth cassettes.
The max tooth spec on the derailleurs is 46, so in theory they work. I found an 11spd for a good price, but I was about to put the 12spd derailleur on the 11spd cassette
@@helbt You can use an 11 or 12 speed derailleur as long as it's long enough for 45t. The shifter needs to be 12-speed so it's indexed for the cassette. If you have a 12-speed shifter and have dremeled off that big cog, you can just set the low limit screw to prevent the derailleur from going to that 12th cog that's not there anymore.
Ive been running the 11s shiumano M5100 group set and really enjoy it. Does come with the 51T low gear so you dont have to give up the climbing gear. Only downside is 11T high gear but for me I'll give up the 10T fast cog. Cheap, reliable and did I say cheap?
Same thoughts hold me on 1x11 since years. I am on Shimano cassettes still, because otherwise i would have to change all wheelsets to XD Drive or Microspline. Not worth the money. Glad i am not the only one
Great take. For me personally, I like to have a wider range cassette because the climbs on my local trails are very steep, slow, and technical. That said, I see so many bikes specced with really nice drivetrains and lower end suspension packages (Santa Cruz makes some great bikes, but they are the number one offender here in my view). I'd much rather have high end suspension or brakes and GX, SLX, or XT drivetrain over electronic shifting and lower end suspension or brakes. It wild to me that anyone really would prefer otherwise...
Always been a Shimano fan, but the old Sram GX 11 speed 10-42 casette is the peak of all cassettes - when you take range, price, durability into account they simply cannot be beaten, no ones done it before or since. 12 speed XT on my latest bike but got my trusty old 11 speed XTR on the hardtail and its brilliant - I've not been impressed with 12 speed XT. It was literally decades on 9, 10, and 11s shimano since i'd had smashed mechs, broken shifters, constant maintenance and tuning... until i 'upgraded' to 12 speed.
There is an 11-50 11- speed Cassette from sunrace, it is heavy though. X01 chains are worth it too, they are a lot harder because it is a chrome alloy thus they don't lengthen as much as other chains. So they wear a lot slower...
Those are awful, atlead in my experience, I've had two both were a flop. The developed horrible wear, sharp teeth and ramps, bent cogs, teeth, I had to use sand paper to file the cassette so the chain did not get cought, and use a fla head screw driver to straighten teeth and cogs. But the largest cogs developed play due to lose rivets, so I could not shift trough these gears. I would go Deore M5100 if on a budget but that's around 600g, Garbaruk 11-50t HG is around 300g. No issues. I've seen a vid where a guy put a Microshift cassette under a microscope, he had same issue with teeth and ramps, chewed up, sharp edges. 🤦
If you are willing to sacrifice top speed doing what he did makes sense, smaller chain ring, for lighter gearing, smaller cassette which is heavier gearing vu lower weight, achieving a good compromise, might not even be a compromise if th top speed is not needed. That xt cassette will shift smoother than Sunrace and won't get chewed up. But 46t version had an awkward jump between largest cogs.
Ighter cassette means higher gear feels the same as a heavier cassette in a lower gear. If u still need a tooth or so....u can get a 44 to 46 up grade ring for X01 cassette. Though it adds 40 grams or so . I have that X01, but never felt i needed more low gear with 32 chainring.
My old 4x bike is running a deore m5100 11 speed derailleur as an 8 speed with a SRAM grip shift could run the x4 but they don't feel ergonomic. The derailleur, cassette, front sprocket and shifter cost me $160 Canadian. Here in Canada we can't get even a brand name cassette for that price so I just makes sense for me. 11-46 tooth is all I need
You touched on this but most people don't need 500% range on an enduro bike. We would better served with a smaller cassette (less unsprung rotational mass) paired to a smaller chainring. If you go with a high pivot bike, you can run basically any size chainring you want as the suspension's pivot point is moved to the idler.
@@cben86 up here in the PNW, I'm usually in the top two biggest gears for the steep fireroad climbs, and then I'm in the smallest gear for the steep techy descents
I’ve got a 12 speed gx on my main bike and an 11 speed x1 on my old bike. If I wasn’t in such poor shape I’d probably be happy to stick with a quality 11speed but that’s not the case for me at this time so 50t for me please
XT 11spd with an E13 9-46 xd cassette gives me all the range and performance I need. Can’t see paying premium 12 spd pricing for no actual ride benefit.
Randomly in my feed but 4x 11sp in the bike stable. Mostly using PC1110 chains changed reasonably frequently at £$€ 10 a chain. 27.5 rear wheels and 11-46 with 30 or 32 on enduro (11-42 and 34 on xc but I don’t race XC) On the rare occasions I’m spinning out on fireroad transfers it’s seconds can be got back by being less above a HR dropping into the next section If a 30/46 isn’t enough it’s faster pushing anyway
Im running exact same DT on my Tallboy 4. XT everything except I use an oval ring. You cant find the 11 speed XT cranks anymore. Dont want to spend a ton of $ to upgrade because Im very happy with the 11 speed system. Plus I have new chains and cassettes for 11 speed in parts bin. I hear you can run an 11 speed system off the new 12 speed crank/chainring. At some point I will be forced into that.
I have on my bike 1x12 full xt drive train and on my old bike was 1x11 full xt with SGS rear derailleur and 11-51 deore cassette. I don't really feel any difference in shifting qualit, and performance. That 1x11 XT drivetrain is like a tank.
I run a 11 speed too, XTR derailleur (best u can find), I use a 28t cog paired with a e13 9-46T cassette giving me more than 510% change and its super light compared to a 12 speed 10-52t cassette. To make it super smooth change, I spend more money on a high end KMC ELL 11 titanium coated chain. Its a lot cheaper than a 12 speed system.
In my experience even the nicer shimano 12 speed groups seem to really struggle with durability. Seen a lot of derailleurs explode for seemingly no reason
im getting axs on my bike but selling it before even using it. i want that Cable feeel, and peace of mind that i can destroy it with a smile. Cant say that for the other group (Never even tested it) Either gen NIce video, i think excactlty the same way, But actually there is this thing called Link Glide and it should triple durability.
New Shimano is way better and cheap if you getit in SLX.. I'm coming from a trail rider/xc point of view. Sometimes you need those bigger gears. 11speed cogs only go up to 42T. Shimano up to 51.
Just installed xt 8000 because its so cheap. ignoring cranks its a little bit heavier than my mixed gx, xo1 DT but literally the price of the xo1 derailleur i get XT 11spd cassette, shifters derailleur .
i’m inspired to spec out 11 speed xtr dr and shifter on my next build. 11-46 xt cassette with a 32 front ring (or a 10-46 sunrace cassette perhaps) jk. 11 speed xtr derailleur has 0 savings over 12 speed lol.
I’m running the sunrace CSMX8with the red anodized spider. You can also get a black anodized version too (same design). No complaints, shifts fast and reliably using a kmc chain.
@@jokermtb so im learning now that all the 12 speed derailleurs are compatible with 11 speed shifters/cassettes. they dont cost a ton more than 11 speed stuff, and give easty shifting over 11-50/51 cassettes
Thats true to some degree, but there are some 12 speed configurations that are only-12 speed, including mundane things like chains - you really have to double check what you're getting can truly work. That said, you can really save quite a bit of money by sticking to the 'outdated' 11-speed components. I recently converted my wife to 12 speed, and it involved new derailleur, new shifter, new cassette and a new chain since the stocker was too short to handle a 51t cassette. All SRAM GX, and it was quite a bit more $ than 11 speed kit. @@jonamcc
The 12 speed groups at that price point really suffer on quality/durability and they always seem to be needing adjustment. They do have a place if you want more gearing but for me those group sets suffer on weight, shift quality and durability
@@briancahalI know Shimano has a patent for a 3 pulley rear derailleur, with cage having more ground clearnace. This concept is not new. But never been done on a modern Rd. It gets the chain higher up to get ground clearnace. I saw both many decade old patent and the updated patent. Modern cage parallelogram, and different cage. But I don't know if it will ever be a product. I also saw the thave a patent for a direct mount Rd. But Sram released Drivetrain first.
Crazy, I thought I was the only holdout... other than newbies with used bikes, I am the only one I knew of that was still running an XT 11 Speed (11-46, long cage, XT shifter for multi-click). I did use the extra money to go full on bling with White Industries polished cranks/32t chainring. I'm also still holding out on 27.5, but thats for another video I guess lol.
Ther eis, I use Archer D1xtrail with paddle remote. It works iwth any mechanical rear derailleur. I use Shimano Deore m6100 Sgs mechanical rear derailleur. It calibrates the wire tension at boot. Great ergonomics on paddle remote. The remote is wireless.
I still run a 10 speed Shimano cassette 11-40T with XTR shifter/derailleur. Stayed w a smaller cassette to keep the chain length moderate. Mated w a Sram Eagle 32 chain ring, it shifts flawlessly and is dead quiet and no chain slap. Like you said, "just get more fit." Most don't need a cassette the size of a dinner plate, like Sram 12 speed Eagle. Good vid about being practical and to use reliable parts rather than expensive ones.
I'm using 11-speed as well. My setup is XT 11 speed rear derailleur + xt shifter, xtr 11 speed chain, xt 11-46 cassette, 12 speed slx crankset with Chinese Aluminum chainring. It saves 380 grams in total compared to an 11-50t NX groupset which comes to a lot of $3000 dollar bikes. Also, another big financial advantage for 11 speed Shimano cassette is, that the hg driver wheelsets are heavily discounted. I bought my brand new Mavic XA Elite 27.5 carbon rear wheel with HG driver for only $270. It is a pretty solid wheel.
Still using the ole 2017 xtr Rd and shifter, with a SLX 11-46t cassette. 34t chainring. Im still impressed. The RD still shifts like a champ after 7 yrs of usage and abuse. 😊💪
I just feel the cheaper options are such a better deal and like you say it does not change how much fun i'm having on my bikes, so there is no way I'm going to pay the big money for AXS or any wireless drivetrains. I could buy it but it's just not worth it in my opinion. I also prefer aluminum rims, the Santa Cruz aluminum wheelset is lifetime warranty for a decent price!
The warranty does not cover racing or competition use .
I just had this conversation with someone. I built my ‘23 Stumpy EVO, and carried over my Shimano 11sp XT setup. I had to swap out the XT derailleur for a Deore 5100, but I can’t feel a difference, and when it gets smashed on a rock, only cost $35-$40 to replace.
I run Advent X and have no plans to change it unless it breaks in a major way. For what I ride I don't even need bigger range than 11-48, on a 32t chainring, it's perfect.
11 speed xtr, I’ve actually been on the same derailleur for 3 bikes now, close to 10,000 hard miles on it. Just rebuild the clutch every 100 hours or so, and it stays mint. 12 speed and electronic shifting can piss right off.
I'm running a 11 Speed Garbaruk 10-50T cassette with a 11speed X01 shifter paired with a 12 speed X01 rear deraileur. Works and shifts a dream! More space for 11 gears rather than 12 speed, keeps the system running smooth even if you bend your hanger! I use a 12 speed chain, which bites in tightly on the cassette. I can only recommend this setup!
Really similar setup but the "regular guy" gearing (30T front, E13 Helix 9-46 rear).
All the range and low-speed I need, reliable, affordable, and light for the money.
i love xt 11 speed. i run it on all my custom builds, its so cheap and just works, if you hit your derailleur and it bends a little its more likely to still shift ok over 12 speed because of the spacing. just so so reliable and cheap
Yeah I find I’m adjusting it way less then 12 speed. My non axs 12 speed groups seemed like they needed constant adjustment and were pretty finicky
You're the realest. I'm building a new bike with GX Transmission, but I concede you make some great points.
I'm running a used XTR 11sp derailleur, a used XTR shifter, XT cassette and XTR chain on a custom Marino steel fullsus frame. By going used drivetrain I saved a bunch of money, plus I get the badge recognition of the XTR bits splashed around.
I’ve been actively switching back from eagle to 11-speed xt with each new bike I’ve gotten. I completely agree that the ONE bit of the bike that can ripped off should not be $400-500
I still run 11 speed as well and just purchased parts to refresh my drivetrain:
- RaceFace steel chainring for $20
- XT 11-46 cassette for $50
- SRAM PC1130 chain for $10
- SLX derailleur pulleys for $11
- Cable and housing I already have on hand
Sure I can upgrade to a new bike (I demo a bunch) but for under $100 to keep my bike running like new, I’ll take the more “sustainable” and economical option
Saint 10spd shifter[$44] moving Zee 10 speed short cage(11-38 wrap)[$52] with Goatlink(effective 11-43)[$20], wraping HG-95[$38] over sunrace CSMX3[$55] 11-42 blk, pulled by E13 Helix with 34t or 30t ring[$190] depending on trail system. Shifts best with Shimano chain over CSMX3 cassette, compared to KMC chain. Shimano CUES LINKGLIDE in this range looks nice too, and is cheaper than my grouping here.
Hard agree
11sp Chains are stronger too
That is exactly my approach as well. I am running sram x5 9spd with 11-36 shimano cassette, 34T chainring upfront. Cassette costs 12euros with life expectancy ~7k km in my riding conditions.
You should try VHS 2.0 chain stay protector. The bike is already quite quiet, but this makes it even quieter. It's robust, I have Archer D1X Trail and to remove batteries I twist it up which has not been an issue, it's very secure. It uses VHB adhesive same ad adhesive pads on GoPro mounts, so will last a long time.
@briancahal this cassette is top notch. There used to be a range extender coq made by one-up or wolf tooth for this cassette, where you could change the biggest coq for a 44t or a 46t adding. Which is actually nice because it's the first coq to wear out. Plus they weight only 10-20 g more then the stock ones. However, I can not find them anymore! So if you ever find some of those, buy stock!
BRIAN is BACK!!!!! SUBSCRIBED🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘
Good video. I have used Microshift AdventX, SRAM eagle and Shimano XTR 12 speed. My XT 11 speed /Praxis drivetrain is by far the most reliable. I do not race, but I ride almost everyday. Love how dependable it is!
Advent seems awful, the clutch has a lot of play before it engages. I've not tried it. But seen a vid on it. But cassette gets chewed up, a guy put it under a microscope, it's on RUclips, same issues with Sun Race. Sharp edges at teeth and ramps.
But I've tried Sunrace the teeth and cogs bend.
I'm running for all the same reasons. Lighter, cheaper, etc, etc. I also run 26t up front because my trails in PNW are punchy and I don't need the top end speed for my day to day riding.
Awesome idea, I am gonna throw some 11S bits on my playtime bike next refresh and I'm pretty sure I won't miss 1 extra gear and enjoy extra runtime. My monster gravel bike with 2.35 tires has the same 11S setup. It works very well and can't wait to compare 👍🏼
Besides your old pivot with Axs my other bikes are rocking microshift advent X and it runs great.
30 tooth chainring and I'm pounding that 10 tooth cog pretty much everyday!
I use a 12 speed TRP tr12 with a 10-45 cassette I pretty much hate the cross tension feel in the bigger cogs, indexing is a pain to adjust...
I must go up too...
I live just next to two abandoned ski stations 🚂 down fhe hill every frigging day 😂
Cross tension? You mean the crosschaining?
Recently built up a top of the line rocky mountain altitude carbon and put xo 11 speed on it.
Running an XT body/SLX steel cage, 11 speed 11-46t XT cassette, KMC chain on my G1. Spend your money on the best suspension and bike that will last. Wheels that are durable and repairable. Most expensive drivetrains have such low gears you would be faster and more efficient pushing your bike up the hill.
Dude you have the best mullet
Been using the very similar Sunrace CSMX8 11-46 aluminum spider cassette for years now on my 11-speed setup. Same weight, but Half the cost of Xt. I do however use a 30t absolute black oval chainring to focus the drivetrain more for climbs instead of top speed. Unbreakable SLX derailleur, KMC chain, and raceface cranks. Cheap and very effective for my ‘19 GT Sensor
I’m right there with you. 11 speed on my mtb. Love this video. On my ebike I run a 10 speed cassette and Saint rear derailleur. 12 speed is over hyped!
I run 3x7 in 2023 on my MTB. It works perfectly well coz I keep it clean and fine tuned. Shifting is flawless. I use my MTB both on road and off-road. So I need the wider selection of gears. I have 22/34/42 front and 11-28 rear. I'm happy with this setup and no modern bs hype will ever convince me that a 1x is better for me.
The chain slap must be awesome
I too run 11 speed but with 11-50t HG Garbaruk cassette, it's around 300g, cheaper and lighter than the top modes from Sram and Shimano, ths goes for the cd and Microspline 52t cassettes too. But still not super cheap, but it's quality an light.
32t oval which eliminated knee pain. DEORE M6100 SGS rear derailleur. It's cheap and works. I got mine for a great price too. I use Archer D1xtrail with paddle remote, electronic shifting with any mechanical Rd. I need it for ergonomics and thumb misalignment issue. If you don't need it that's great.
11-50t with 32t works for me, still have good tops speed, and 50t is nice for speed climbs. I've not tried 30t. That might work too, but will sacrifice topspeed on long straight sprints.
Brian, love the concepts youre doing, but I think a better comparison to this would have been on a Eagle GX groupset, which retail with crank for a little under $600, and can be found on sale for under $500. While I agree on the top end speed, and on the fitness aspects - since moving to a 50T/52T ring Ive found myself way less fatigued on longer all-day rides.
Smart stuff! You can also dremel off the big cog on a 12-speed cassette to make it run longer. And I think those xt 11-speed shimano derailleurs will work on the shimano 12-speed 45 tooth cassettes.
do you just use a normal 12 speed derailleur on the 12-speed cassette with the removed cog or is it possible to use an 11 speed derailleur? thanks
The max tooth spec on the derailleurs is 46, so in theory they work. I found an 11spd for a good price, but I was about to put the 12spd derailleur on the 11spd cassette
11/12s derailleur are interchangeable, but the gear spacing and shifters are specific and you need a 12s chain for 12s
@@helbt You can use an 11 or 12 speed derailleur as long as it's long enough for 45t. The shifter needs to be 12-speed so it's indexed for the cassette. If you have a 12-speed shifter and have dremeled off that big cog, you can just set the low limit screw to prevent the derailleur from going to that 12th cog that's not there anymore.
The M 8000 rear derailleur is both 10 and 11 speed compatible .The T 8000 is 10 speed compatible . I have tested these .
Ive been running the 11s shiumano M5100 group set and really enjoy it. Does come with the 51T low gear so you dont have to give up the climbing gear. Only downside is 11T high gear but for me I'll give up the 10T fast cog. Cheap, reliable and did I say cheap?
Just upgraded to the praxis girder hd cranks from the cadets on my remedy. great cranks
Same thoughts hold me on 1x11 since years. I am on Shimano cassettes still, because otherwise i would have to change all wheelsets to XD Drive or Microspline. Not worth the money. Glad i am not the only one
Running zeeFR shifter and derailleur w/ a 11-42 4100 cassette and xt chain. the whole setup was $140 on Jenson
Great take. For me personally, I like to have a wider range cassette because the climbs on my local trails are very steep, slow, and technical. That said, I see so many bikes specced with really nice drivetrains and lower end suspension packages (Santa Cruz makes some great bikes, but they are the number one offender here in my view). I'd much rather have high end suspension or brakes and GX, SLX, or XT drivetrain over electronic shifting and lower end suspension or brakes. It wild to me that anyone really would prefer otherwise...
Yeah I agree. Another funny OE spec thing was the old X0 derailleur trick with GX parts everywhere else. I think it used to be more common through
I agree Santa Cruz specs are an insult for the price they charge. 11 speed is so affordable and light.
same, still rocking an xt 11spd setup but with a 46-9t E13 cassette (around 510% range?) . also oval ring up front helps get some top speed out of it
Yeah the e13 cassettes look like a good option to get extra range at a good weight. Never tried them but considered it for these builds
best drivetrain out there, and 34t oval paired with that 9t cog makes for a great top end for hammering!
3x8, 26" and i dont care what you think. im having lots of fun.
Always been a Shimano fan, but the old Sram GX 11 speed 10-42 casette is the peak of all cassettes - when you take range, price, durability into account they simply cannot be beaten, no ones done it before or since.
12 speed XT on my latest bike but got my trusty old 11 speed XTR on the hardtail and its brilliant - I've not been impressed with 12 speed XT. It was literally decades on 9, 10, and 11s shimano since i'd had smashed mechs, broken shifters, constant maintenance and tuning... until i 'upgraded' to 12 speed.
Yeah the 12spd shimano never really impressed me durability wise. Seen so many of those rear derailleurs fail for no hood reason.
There is an 11-50 11- speed Cassette from sunrace, it is heavy though. X01 chains are worth it too, they are a lot harder because it is a chrome alloy thus they don't lengthen as much as other chains. So they wear a lot slower...
Those are awful, atlead in my experience, I've had two both were a flop. The developed horrible wear, sharp teeth and ramps, bent cogs, teeth, I had to use sand paper to file the cassette so the chain did not get cought, and use a fla head screw driver to straighten teeth and cogs. But the largest cogs developed play due to lose rivets, so I could not shift trough these gears. I would go Deore M5100 if on a budget but that's around 600g, Garbaruk 11-50t HG is around 300g. No issues.
I've seen a vid where a guy put a Microshift cassette under a microscope, he had same issue with teeth and ramps, chewed up, sharp edges. 🤦
If you are willing to sacrifice top speed doing what he did makes sense, smaller chain ring, for lighter gearing, smaller cassette which is heavier gearing vu lower weight, achieving a good compromise, might not even be a compromise if th top speed is not needed. That xt cassette will shift smoother than Sunrace and won't get chewed up. But 46t version had an awkward jump between largest cogs.
What in the Chris Porter!
Ighter cassette means higher gear feels the same as a heavier cassette in a lower gear.
If u still need a tooth or so....u can get a 44 to 46 up grade ring for X01 cassette. Though it adds 40 grams or so .
I have that X01, but never felt i needed more low gear with 32 chainring.
My old 4x bike is running a deore m5100 11 speed derailleur as an 8 speed with a SRAM grip shift could run the x4 but they don't feel ergonomic. The derailleur, cassette, front sprocket and shifter cost me $160 Canadian. Here in Canada we can't get even a brand name cassette for that price so I just makes sense for me. 11-46 tooth is all I need
Forgot the chain so add another 24$ for a KMC chain
Cheaper if you're looking new. I've sold afew 11spd drivechains and paid the same for a full 12spd used setup
You should test an E-bike
Or a gear box
You have the most insightful review
Trying to get my hands both!
You touched on this but most people don't need 500% range on an enduro bike. We would better served with a smaller cassette (less unsprung rotational mass) paired to a smaller chainring. If you go with a high pivot bike, you can run basically any size chainring you want as the suspension's pivot point is moved to the idler.
Speek for yourself man, I use every single gear on my 10-52 cassette. I will happily take the extra range in exchange for a slight weight penalty.
@@SpencerBaum I'm impressed! I never use my tallest gears (small ones) when I'm on the trail.
@@cben86 up here in the PNW, I'm usually in the top two biggest gears for the steep fireroad climbs, and then I'm in the smallest gear for the steep techy descents
Actually on a new school setup, that means brand new 10v shimano cues! 😂
I’ve got a 12 speed gx on my main bike and an 11 speed x1 on my old bike. If I wasn’t in such poor shape I’d probably be happy to stick with a quality 11speed but that’s not the case for me at this time so 50t for me please
subscribed withinbthe first minute!
Thanks!
XO1 AXS (non transmission) but wishing I had saved some money for that new half slice I want 😂
XT 11spd with an E13 9-46 xd cassette gives me all the range and performance I need. Can’t see paying premium 12 spd pricing for no actual ride benefit.
Randomly in my feed but 4x 11sp in the bike stable. Mostly using PC1110 chains changed reasonably frequently at £$€ 10 a chain.
27.5 rear wheels and 11-46 with 30 or 32 on enduro (11-42 and 34 on xc but I don’t race XC)
On the rare occasions I’m spinning out on fireroad transfers it’s seconds can be got back by being less above a HR dropping into the next section
If a 30/46 isn’t enough it’s faster pushing anyway
Im running exact same DT on my Tallboy 4. XT everything except I use an oval ring. You cant find the 11 speed XT cranks anymore. Dont want to spend a ton of $ to upgrade because Im very happy with the 11 speed system. Plus I have new chains and cassettes for 11 speed in parts bin. I hear you can run an 11 speed system off the new 12 speed crank/chainring. At some point I will be forced into that.
Yeah pretty sure you can run 11 speed with any 12 speed crank/chainring. At least that’s the case with praxis and sram.
I have on my bike 1x12 full xt drive train and on my old bike was 1x11 full xt with SGS rear derailleur and 11-51 deore cassette. I don't really feel any difference in shifting qualit, and performance. That 1x11 XT drivetrain is like a tank.
I run a 11 speed too, XTR derailleur (best u can find), I use a 28t cog paired with a e13 9-46T cassette giving me more than 510% change and its super light compared to a 12 speed 10-52t cassette. To make it super smooth change, I spend more money on a high end KMC ELL 11 titanium coated chain. Its a lot cheaper than a 12 speed system.
Dunno man. I think u can get an slx 12 speed setup cheaper than that.. other than the heavy cassette. Those xo1 11spd cassettes are amazing
In my experience even the nicer shimano 12 speed groups seem to really struggle with durability. Seen a lot of derailleurs explode for seemingly no reason
0:12 truvativ preSram had removable bash guards that you could install regular or goofy
I use 11 speed on my HT for cross country. Pushed me to be stronger
Totally agree!
im getting axs on my bike but selling it before even using it. i want that Cable feeel, and peace of mind that i can destroy it with a smile. Cant say that for the other group (Never even tested it) Either gen
NIce video, i think excactlty the same way, But actually there is this thing called Link Glide and it should triple durability.
Shimano makes an 11 speed cassette with 11-51 now.
Yes, it's around 600g, it's Deore m5100 11-51t HG. The new ramp design makes it shift smoother.
New Shimano is way better and cheap if you getit in SLX.. I'm coming from a trail rider/xc point of view. Sometimes you need those bigger gears. 11speed cogs only go up to 42T. Shimano up to 51.
Im running a 10 speed. Doesn't affect my riding and the cassette is lighter than 11 speeds
totally agree
You need to switch to Linkglide Xt.
Just installed xt 8000 because its so cheap. ignoring cranks its a little bit heavier than my mixed gx, xo1 DT but literally the price of the xo1 derailleur i get XT 11spd cassette, shifters derailleur .
I don't think I ever use the most upper and lower gears on my 12 speed
Im fairly confident you can run sram gx 12 speed cranks (or any aluminum descendant crankset) with an 11 speed chain and save some $$
Any 12 speed chainring should work with 11 speed
Too loud though, cause the x-sync 2 (12-speed) chainring is smaller than the 11 speed, so the 11speed chain has more play on the 12speed ring
i’m inspired to spec out 11 speed xtr dr and shifter on my next build. 11-46 xt cassette with a 32 front ring (or a 10-46 sunrace cassette perhaps)
jk. 11 speed xtr derailleur has 0 savings over 12 speed lol.
I’m running the sunrace CSMX8with the red anodized spider. You can also get a black anodized version too (same design). No complaints, shifts fast and reliably using a kmc chain.
@@jokermtb so im learning now that all the 12 speed derailleurs are compatible with 11 speed shifters/cassettes. they dont cost a ton more than 11 speed stuff, and give easty shifting over 11-50/51 cassettes
Thats true to some degree, but there are some 12 speed configurations that are only-12 speed, including mundane things like chains - you really have to double check what you're getting can truly work. That said, you can really save quite a bit of money by sticking to the 'outdated' 11-speed components. I recently converted my wife to 12 speed, and it involved new derailleur, new shifter, new cassette and a new chain since the stocker was too short to handle a 51t cassette. All SRAM GX, and it was quite a bit more $ than 11 speed kit. @@jonamcc
And you can turn off the clutch on your Shimano RD for maximum suspension freeing voodoo
I think the argument on price and weight is fair but if you dont want to ride 11sp the slx and deore is a similar price but heavier
True but I think shift quality and durability really starts to suffer at those price points with the 12 speed groups.
a sram gx or shimano xt drivetrain is about 400$ as well, with cranks included so I don't really see your point
The 12 speed groups at that price point really suffer on quality/durability and they always seem to be needing adjustment. They do have a place if you want more gearing but for me those group sets suffer on weight, shift quality and durability
2016 Sram XO 11 speed shifts better than 2023 Shimano XT 12 speed.
And yes my chain line is correct.
I don‘t get it, if money is the reason to do this, why go for xt? I can get the current 11 speed deore for less than half of this and have more range
Also 12s Sram derailleurs have very weak clutch. Don't know about the transmission but 11s gx is strong, shifts well and QUIET!
Better clearance than 12 speed too
@@briancahalI know Shimano has a patent for a 3 pulley rear derailleur, with cage having more ground clearnace. This concept is not new. But never been done on a modern Rd. It gets the chain higher up to get ground clearnace. I saw both many decade old patent and the updated patent. Modern cage parallelogram, and different cage.
But I don't know if it will ever be a product. I also saw the thave a patent for a direct mount Rd. But Sram released Drivetrain first.
because in enduro you dont have rides of 60km with long uphills
Why not 1x9?
Crazy, I thought I was the only holdout... other than newbies with used bikes, I am the only one I knew of that was still running an XT 11 Speed (11-46, long cage, XT shifter for multi-click). I did use the extra money to go full on bling with White Industries polished cranks/32t chainring. I'm also still holding out on 27.5, but thats for another video I guess lol.
Im running a deore m6000 10 speed 11-46
Is he racing? I'm not sure.
11 speed Di2 XT is so cheap to buy right now
What frame is that?!?!
Geometron. will be doing more videos with it soon.
The reason I don't run 11 speed is that there's no electric shifting available.
Ther eis, I use Archer D1xtrail with paddle remote. It works iwth any mechanical rear derailleur. I use Shimano Deore m6100 Sgs mechanical rear derailleur.
It calibrates the wire tension at boot.
Great ergonomics on paddle remote. The remote is wireless.
after I gained 30 pounds and turned 50 the Rholoff looks better and better.
It's actually more durable, fact..
#metoo Shimano Linkglide XT bombproof 💥
And the entire drivetrain is cheaper than a GX 12speed cassette 😂
pff, I'm runnin 7 speed
I saw a 5100 deore groupo on aliexpress for $57 lol. Shifter, rear mech, kmc chain and that cheap sunshine cassette 11-50.