The gifts have not ceased. It’s amazing to me how Doug admits that by his own laying on of hands according to James 5 that a modern day miracle took place. That is a good gift. “Seek earnestly the best gifts.” And yet somewhat befuddled, he tries to deny the continuing of the gifts today. Get out of your bubble and study those believers who see miracles manifest on a regular basis.
Aren't the miracle worker gifts all listed with charismata for the church though? How do you reach the conclusion that the gift of healing etc was an apostolic sign gift in that sense.
Doug is trying to be cute here by distinguishing between miracles and miracle workers. Miracles don't exist in a vacuum, so if God stopped sending miracle workers, then He has stopped doing miracles. That's not to say that God isn't active. He's still sovereign, but the signs and wonders have ceased.
Jared Pine I don’t think he’s trying to be cute, I think it’s fair to distinguish the difference, because the difference between miracles and miracle works is about authority.
Jared is being cute here. Pastor Wilson clearly made the distinction between God miraculously healing someone according to NT standards of bringing them to the elders but maintaining that the office of healer has ceased.
I’m okay with being cute, as long as you don’t mean it in the feminine way, but you have now invented a new office. Healer is not an office in the Bible. Healing was done by the apostles and those who were under the apostles, so when the office of apostles ceased, so too did miraculous healing. The miracles served to confirm the apostles, not today’s elders.
Bryan Jacobs I affirm whole-heartedly that regeneration is a monergistic act of God. However, it isn’t a “sign and wonder.” Regeneration takes place in the soul of the elect. Miracles take place in the observable world. Everything that the Bible calls a miracle takes place in such a way that it can be observed by others. When God parted the Red Sea, everyone present could observe it. I hope that answers your question.
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Not a cessationist, but clearly also had a wrong view of cessationism's taking on present-day miracles. Thanks for this clarification!
The gifts have not ceased. It’s amazing to me how Doug admits that by his own laying on of hands according to James 5 that a modern day miracle took place. That is a good gift. “Seek earnestly the best gifts.”
And yet somewhat befuddled, he tries to deny the continuing of the gifts today.
Get out of your bubble and study those believers who see miracles manifest on a regular basis.
Aren't the miracle worker gifts all listed with charismata for the church though?
How do you reach the conclusion that the gift of healing etc was an apostolic sign gift in that sense.
Doug is trying to be cute here by distinguishing between miracles and miracle workers. Miracles don't exist in a vacuum, so if God stopped sending miracle workers, then He has stopped doing miracles. That's not to say that God isn't active. He's still sovereign, but the signs and wonders have ceased.
Jared Pine I don’t think he’s trying to be cute, I think it’s fair to distinguish the difference, because the difference between miracles and miracle works is about authority.
Jared is being cute here. Pastor Wilson clearly made the distinction between God miraculously healing someone according to NT standards of bringing them to the elders but maintaining that the office of healer has ceased.
I’m okay with being cute, as long as you don’t mean it in the feminine way, but you have now invented a new office. Healer is not an office in the Bible. Healing was done by the apostles and those who were under the apostles, so when the office of apostles ceased, so too did miraculous healing. The miracles served to confirm the apostles, not today’s elders.
@@pinejared So if God doesn't do miracles, what do you call regeneration? Is that not a miraculous act of God?
Bryan Jacobs I affirm whole-heartedly that regeneration is a monergistic act of God. However, it isn’t a “sign and wonder.” Regeneration takes place in the soul of the elect. Miracles take place in the observable world. Everything that the Bible calls a miracle takes place in such a way that it can be observed by others. When God parted the Red Sea, everyone present could observe it. I hope that answers your question.