I'm surprised that the detrimental effect of current agricultural methods on our land hasn't been addressed. I shop organic as much as I can for the sake of my health, but also for the sake of being a good steward of this good earth that our Lord has given us. I find Pastor Wilson's stance on this incongruent with his optimistic, victorious escatological views. I so appreciate the ministry of the Wilsons in general and hope to see further change in this area. His former video on the topic was more extreme than this ("God doesn't care what you eat"), so I'm hopeful.
Doug's a little too dismissive of the potential effects of pesticides in our food but we aren't going to feed seven billion people with organic techniques any time soon.
@Ben Höflinger RUclips isn't showing me your whole response so forgive me if I'm missing part of your point but I can assure you based on extensive knowledge drawn from personal experience that we can not produce the same quantity of food from the same acres with organic techniques as with pesticides/synthetic fertilizer, and certainly not at the same cost. If buying organic is accessible to you it may well be the best choice for you and your family but for most of the world's population trace amounts of glyphosate is a small price to pay to avoid malnutrition.
I understand what Douglas is saying. Just like marijuana (i do not condone it nor do I condone alcohol or even MOST medications). Science says marijuana is bad and there are many studies proving this YET we have the Willie Nelsons and Joe Rogans of the world being incredibly successful and productive, even at 80+ years old. So it can’t be as bad as they say, just like processed/GMO food (I do not condone eat this kinda food either). Again, not saying I would do either (I barely take medicines) but I totally get his argument
I just love this. He has so much common sense about this subject. It’s sad to see Christians fall for the “natural, organic” line. I mean, eat what you want, but don’t push non scientific baloney just because it “sounds” nice.
Advances in medicine can't be ignored in longevity. It has helped to extend life in spite of the poor quality of our food. I try to use organic when I can (sometime $$ limited) to avoid GMOs. I don't like GMO because it is playing God by messing with the firmware of creation in a way we ought not to do. The other problem is that the modifications are being done in many cases to allow the use of sketchy chemicals. I would prefer to have my own land on which to produce as much of my food as possible so that I can use proper rotation and companion methods to improve the nutrition of my food. I am working toward that end as much as possible. Trying to have better quality of food need not be a religious idolatry even though it can be.
My father is 89. He is strong and healthy. He cooks for himself. Processed foods. He eats fresh fruit and vegetables every day. He enjoys his sweets. He eats what his budget will allow and according to what his body needs. Not the packaging and hype that a product is adverted.
I definitely agree that how someone eats should not be judged as moral or immoral, and if how you eat keeps you from fellowshiping with another family that eats differently than you, then that is wrong. I also agree that chasing after health fads is foolish, and the stress caused for many Christians (especially women) by trying to "eat healthy" is taken to the point of idolizing health. But I do think it can be considered a biblical principle to work *with* God's creation and design to source our food rather than against it. Joel Salatin is a fantastic resource on this topic.
Pastor Doug, you seemed to say that our eating habit, or food consumption today is alright. Evidence is we live longer. But would that be possible people today live longer than people in the, let's say, 20s because medicine is way better today, not because of our eating habit?
Good point. There are many different factors that have contributed to a longer lifespan. Boomers exercise more, drink less, smoke less, and have had more advanced medical care than earlier generations. Along with plenty of other factors I'm sure - like eating a wider variety of plant foods. Wilson's argument is pretty dumb tbh
Correct me if I am wrong, it seems like you are trying to define the principle vs methods in the area of food, health and diet. There is much work to do in this area. I agree we cannot morally call certain methods of eating "evil." Paul speaks to this Biblical principle very well in Romans 14 (the whole chapter). Let us not judge others in these areas of methods. In wisdom though we have to define terms as we grow in the work of dominion. If we are weak at defining our concepts (organic, natural, etc.) then more work needs to be done in these areas which will be revealed with time. Some terms seem to be relative to the times and seasons of a culture. How food affects the body is Dominion of nutrition and we should not ignore this work. (Gen 1:26, 2:5, Is 6:3). So if we do work that concludes for example, different macro nutrients have different effects on the body. And the source of macro nutrients can have a different affect on the body according to how God created us then we ought to affirm that. If Doug is saying be careful on the movement you follow in the same way Paul talks about in Romans 14 then I agree. Usually any movement (or clique) can become idolatrous.
I have no health issues with most GMO foods. I am wary about patents on genomes and seeds. And I a disgusted with farmers sued because unlicenced ROUNDUP resistant seeds blew onto his field.
I like how pastors are experts in every field of study from cannabis to virology to food and health. They study 50+ hours a week for 1 sermon based off 2 verses, squeezing water out of a rock (exegetically speaking) but read a few articles on GMO's talk to another pastor or 2 and presume to instruct in fields they haven't even begun to grasp.
What’s the scriptural standard for playing God with a crop’s DNA or spraying poisonous insecticides all over them? I’m just eating what my grandparents ate. It wasn’t a sin then and it isn’t a sin now. It’s food as God designed it. That’s why the Amish still farm that way. They never changed their agricultural methods and are probably healthier for it.
The Bible isn’t a nutrition manual so it’s not gonna tell you what’s healthy to eat but it’s a good idea use science to determine what’s going to help us live longest and be the most effective. I don’t think we have to eat crazy healthy but we should keep ourselves reasonably healthy i.e. diet, exercise.
Why are you living 30 years longer than your grandparents? Because you are not getting kicked by a mule or falling off a tractor. These longevity charts are highly skewed by 1) Farm and blue collar accidents, 2) infant mortality where you are skewing the average with lots of people dying at age zero, and 3) women dying in child birth. If you normalize for these societal changes you will find that we are not living longer. Love this channel, but this topic really deserves a much more studied response.
Conditional probability of (example) living twenty more years given one has achieved age X has been increasing for higher values of X over time, I believe. But you are right that infant mortality skews mean averages. The median is a much better measure.
Foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they gender strides. Doug is unlearned on the topic of organic. This conversation should have been avoided.
There are plenty of Christians out there who would say eating organic is a moral issue, as in, you're immoral if you don't. This is important for Christians to talk about. Doug has no problem talking about what's healthier or what's the best source for a particular food.
@@CanonPress Right but just because it needs discussing, that doesn't mean we just hop in there. The need to address the issue doesn't preclude the need to do the necessary work that is required to have an informed discussion. Consult a Christian nutritionist or a nutritionist with integrity real time. Be informed or pass the topic.
I'm surprised that the detrimental effect of current agricultural methods on our land hasn't been addressed. I shop organic as much as I can for the sake of my health, but also for the sake of being a good steward of this good earth that our Lord has given us. I find Pastor Wilson's stance on this incongruent with his optimistic, victorious escatological views.
I so appreciate the ministry of the Wilsons in general and hope to see further change in this area. His former video on the topic was more extreme than this ("God doesn't care what you eat"), so I'm hopeful.
Doug's a little too dismissive of the potential effects of pesticides in our food but we aren't going to feed seven billion people with organic techniques any time soon.
@Ben Höflinger RUclips isn't showing me your whole response so forgive me if I'm missing part of your point but I can assure you based on extensive knowledge drawn from personal experience that we can not produce the same quantity of food from the same acres with organic techniques as with pesticides/synthetic fertilizer, and certainly not at the same cost. If buying organic is accessible to you it may well be the best choice for you and your family but for most of the world's population trace amounts of glyphosate is a small price to pay to avoid malnutrition.
What stance? I did not hear Doug give a stance on pesticides or organics.
Cheers! :)
I understand what Douglas is saying. Just like marijuana (i do not condone it nor do I condone alcohol or even MOST medications). Science says marijuana is bad and there are many studies proving this YET we have the Willie Nelsons and Joe Rogans of the world being incredibly successful and productive, even at 80+ years old. So it can’t be as bad as they say, just like processed/GMO food (I do not condone eat this kinda food either). Again, not saying I would do either (I barely take medicines) but I totally get his argument
Thought this would be a dialogue about the organic church movement :)
Oh well...
Wasn't sure which way it was going to go, but would love to see Doug's thoughts on this and Frank Viola's writings.
I just love this. He has so much common sense about this subject. It’s sad to see Christians fall for the “natural, organic” line. I mean, eat what you want, but don’t push non scientific baloney just because it “sounds” nice.
Haha, I misheard "By what standard?" as "Buy what's standard", but I think the outcome is the same :-)
For a biblical standard, read Joel Salatins, The Marvelous Pigness of Pigs.
I was coming here to comment his name. What a podcast that would be. Doug and Joel!!!
Advances in medicine can't be ignored in longevity. It has helped to extend life in spite of the poor quality of our food.
I try to use organic when I can (sometime $$ limited) to avoid GMOs. I don't like GMO because it is playing God by messing with the firmware of creation in a way we ought not to do. The other problem is that the modifications are being done in many cases to allow the use of sketchy chemicals. I would prefer to have my own land on which to produce as much of my food as possible so that I can use proper rotation and companion methods to improve the nutrition of my food. I am working toward that end as much as possible.
Trying to have better quality of food need not be a religious idolatry even though it can be.
My father is 89.
He is strong and healthy. He cooks for himself. Processed foods. He eats fresh fruit and vegetables every day. He enjoys his sweets. He eats what his budget will allow and according to what his body needs. Not the packaging and hype that a product is adverted.
I definitely agree that how someone eats should not be judged as moral or immoral, and if how you eat keeps you from fellowshiping with another family that eats differently than you, then that is wrong. I also agree that chasing after health fads is foolish, and the stress caused for many Christians (especially women) by trying to "eat healthy" is taken to the point of idolizing health. But I do think it can be considered a biblical principle to work *with* God's creation and design to source our food rather than against it. Joel Salatin is a fantastic resource on this topic.
Pastor Doug, you seemed to say that our eating habit, or food consumption today is alright. Evidence is we live longer. But would that be possible people today live longer than people in the, let's say, 20s because medicine is way better today, not because of our eating habit?
Good point. There are many different factors that have contributed to a longer lifespan. Boomers exercise more, drink less, smoke less, and have had more advanced medical care than earlier generations. Along with plenty of other factors I'm sure - like eating a wider variety of plant foods. Wilson's argument is pretty dumb tbh
Canon press needs to do a Wise Traditions podcast deep dive based on the Weston A Price foundation.
Correct me if I am wrong, it seems like you are trying to define the principle vs methods in the area of food, health and diet.
There is much work to do in this area. I agree we cannot morally call certain methods of eating "evil." Paul speaks to this Biblical principle very well in Romans 14 (the whole chapter). Let us not judge others in these areas of methods.
In wisdom though we have to define terms as we grow in the work of dominion. If we are weak at defining our concepts (organic, natural, etc.) then more work needs to be done in these areas which will be revealed with time. Some terms seem to be relative to the times and seasons of a culture.
How food affects the body is Dominion of nutrition and we should not ignore this work. (Gen 1:26, 2:5, Is 6:3).
So if we do work that concludes for example, different macro nutrients have different effects on the body. And the source of macro nutrients can have a different affect on the body according to how God created us then we ought to affirm that.
If Doug is saying be careful on the movement you follow in the same way Paul talks about in Romans 14 then I agree. Usually any movement (or clique) can become idolatrous.
I think you and Doug are saying the same thing!
I have no health issues with most GMO foods. I am wary about patents on genomes and seeds. And I a disgusted with farmers sued because unlicenced ROUNDUP resistant seeds blew onto his field.
I like how pastors are experts in every field of study from cannabis to virology to food and health. They study 50+ hours a week for 1 sermon based off 2 verses, squeezing water out of a rock (exegetically speaking) but read a few articles on GMO's talk to another pastor or 2 and presume to instruct in fields they haven't even begun to grasp.
Does Doug strike you as such?
What’s the scriptural standard for playing God with a crop’s DNA or spraying poisonous insecticides all over them? I’m just eating what my grandparents ate. It wasn’t a sin then and it isn’t a sin now. It’s food as God designed it. That’s why the Amish still farm that way. They never changed their agricultural methods and are probably healthier for it.
What is the scriptural stand for employing rhetoric like 'playing God' loosely and without definition?
The Bible isn’t a nutrition manual so it’s not gonna tell you what’s healthy to eat but it’s a good idea use science to determine what’s going to help us live longest and be the most effective. I don’t think we have to eat crazy healthy but we should keep ourselves reasonably healthy i.e. diet, exercise.
Why are you living 30 years longer than your grandparents? Because you are not getting kicked by a mule or falling off a tractor. These longevity charts are highly skewed by 1) Farm and blue collar accidents, 2) infant mortality where you are skewing the average with lots of people dying at age zero, and 3) women dying in child birth. If you normalize for these societal changes you will find that we are not living longer. Love this channel, but this topic really deserves a much more studied response.
Conditional probability of (example) living twenty more years given one has achieved age X has been increasing for higher values of X over time, I believe.
But you are right that infant mortality skews mean averages. The median is a much better measure.
We do know that roundup causes serious issues in our bodies. But making eating organic an idol isn’t good either.
I don't know that. But I am pissed at farmers sued because patented seed has blown onto their field and taken root.
Normally I find his videos interesting, but this was a sad display of ignorance. :(
I came to comment something similar but you said it much better.
Foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they gender strides.
Doug is unlearned on the topic of organic. This conversation should have been avoided.
There are plenty of Christians out there who would say eating organic is a moral issue, as in, you're immoral if you don't. This is important for Christians to talk about. Doug has no problem talking about what's healthier or what's the best source for a particular food.
@@CanonPress Right but just because it needs discussing, that doesn't mean we just hop in there. The need to address the issue doesn't preclude the need to do the necessary work that is required to have an informed discussion.
Consult a Christian nutritionist or a nutritionist with integrity real time. Be informed or pass the topic.
@@internetneverlies I have found few nutritionists with integrity. They are out there, but many are duds.