As a scientist who is visibly Muslim, I'm often surrounded by people who are either uninterested in religion or have abandoned their religious upbringing. And while I also have religious trauma and can empathize with the pain it inflicts on people, I find it so bizarre how much religion is maligned and berated in these spaces. Which is why I feel my presence as a Muslim woman and my refusal to "tone it down" is important--yes, you can be religious and do literal brain science!
you probably just have the same religion of your parents, if you were born in ancient nordic countries you'd believe in Thor, religion is a matter of child indoctrination, nothing more, and cognitive bias exist even among scientists because it's really hard to remove something that has been strongly reinforced since childhood
@IngeniousMaultasche Okay? Unless you are interested in these aspects of Islam in some way, I don't see why you're responding to me. My comment isn't about the legitimacy of my faith but about the legitimacy of my personhood.
@@Zaureeexcept that your post sounds more like legitimacy of religion and not your personhood. 2ndly these days religious people use scientific terms to make shit up to justify their beliefs... So i can understand the apprehension. Blame the internet. Lastly religion is no longer limited to beliefs, religious people think its all facts. Religion also has a history of standing in the way of science. And lastly, its plausible to distrust someone to be a good scientist when you know they live life guided by things that don't have imperial evidence. So you tell me if its all that unreasonable. Im not saying its right or wrong, just that its not unreasonable. I mean if I was your colleague, I would be ok with your person hood because I come from a place where both coexist in harmony for the most part. But yes, when there is a conflict, its always because of some dumb religious people
Well if your entire personhood is about your Muslim identity and your faith then i suppose you should put more effort into the legitimacy of that faith. Especially considering how aggressive and weird your religion is including the god of your religion who wants people to burn in hell for eternity just for not believing in him. There is so many issues with your religion it is hard to even count how many issues your religion has both scientifically, morally, and even in terms of historical accuracy. I don't doubt your ability to do brain science. I just doubt your ability to meaningfully engage with whether or not your religion is actually legitimate. And in that regard, i do consider that stupid. One could be snart at making music but really bad at math. I don't think being a smart scientist makes you smart enough to tell us your faith is legitimate. I think you're allowed to exist as a Muslim woman. But don't say why is religion maligned and berated, they're allowed to berate and express their opinions towards religion just as you are allowed to exist as a Muslim woman
I used to be really religious, now I’m not. From my experience what I figured is that stupid people exist in EVERY community. They are not exclusive to religious communities. My criticism of religious communities is often they muzzle their followers. I rarely got any straight answers of my questions from a religious leader. They sort of encourage you to be a blind follower. That favours both stupid and dishonest people to have the badge of being the most pious and devoted. As long as they won’t allow questions and constructive moderation, they would have to deal with the stupid and fraud problem.
Pretty much. I believe that anyone that forsakes critical thinking over blindly following dogma, is either not very bright or is willingly decieving him or herself.
As an Atheist, I don't think that I'm smarter than any given religious person. I do think being committed to a specific religious ideology can steer people away from reaching certain logical conclusions. However, I can acknowledge the good religion brings to people in the way it grounds them, provides community, and gives people hope. I just wish people didn't fight over it, force others into it, or threaten them for leaving❤
I agree. And i would to add that religious institutions and identities dont have a monopoly over social coersion. Toeing the line happens in so many other social scenarios (military, political parties, group identities, schools of thought, etc) with just as strong social repercussions
I have my own imaginary friends, who make me happy. Believing in one of my friends, means I will never die, ain’t I lucky. I did find it very hard to imagine dying & my life having no real meaning, scary.
James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Especially in the west, a lot of people who grew up with Christianity project their religious trauma onto other religions and believe that structures that exist in Christianity also exist in other religions even though that is not necessarily true.
I don’t think religious people are stupid. In fact most religious people I’ve met are knowledgeable about a lot of things HOWEVER being a bisexual man I’ve had countless experiences where religious people have been extremely abusive. So, now, every time I meet a person that is deeply religious I’m a little wary because, even though I still give them my trust, there’s a part of me that wonders: are you one of the lovely ones that would volunteer with me or one of the fundamentalists that wants to “save me from sin” by harassing me with insults for three weeks. Sadly is usually the latter, but thankfully there’s kind people like you or my landlord that are kind and friendly and restore my faith in religious people.
I met several people who were intensely religious. In their minds, Halloween is a time when magic and Satan mix. I also encountered a few calm, reasonable believers. I've discovered that they aren't all bad. These People have views that are not the same as mine. Simply be cautious with them and grow to trust them. Tazzy Phe is intelligent enough to understand how people believe, and I respect that.
It's the self righteousness that comes from believing you are God's chosen. And in my case the pressure of feeling that if you don't force the "lost" to convert. God will be so disappointed in you because you are a bad person who wants people to go to hell 😢 I regret how disrespectful I have been in the past. Sorry you have to deal with that.
@@ryojs4286 They are being defensive because they have been though some sh🤬t. Especially when they grown up religious. It's hard to trust people when you have been burnt. And burnt in the name of love and peace too. When you feel threatened even a smile feels dangerous.
@@angel-ke9vs Weve all been thro "some sh8t" doesnt excuse abuse towards Muslims when we show kindess or tell you its haram. It IS HARAM and it will hurt you like alcohol will and society. Those are the facts
I’m sooo glad you made this video!! It’s super relevant to me and my experiences. I was born to a Muslim family that wasn’t suuuper duper practicing, but I still learned the 5 pillars of Islam, fasted, etc. I started questioning Islam when I was 15, thinking “I’m only Muslim because my parents are. If I were born to a Christian family then I’d be Christian.” When I tried to find answers about the meaning of life, doubts in faith, etc., I was met with backlash from other Muslims. I eventually called myself an Atheist and became this shell of a person. I was intensely cynical and felt hopeless about the fate of the world. I would even wish that I could be “dumb enough” to believe in religion because I hated how hopeless everything felt without having any meaning to life. Eventually I started doing research into Islam and slowly made my way back to being a Muslim, by my own choice this time, Alhamdulillah. I still have doubts and lapses in faith to this day and it’s not all ponies and rainbows lol. But it honestly only makes sense that people are here for a reason. Islam truly has so much wisdom in it, I genuinely believe it’s the truth. And Atheists might read this and think I only chose Islam for my mental health/for my own comfort but that’s far from the truth🤣My life in a way would be so much easier if I wasn’t Muslim, but I wouldn’t have it any other way. I chose Islam because I know it’s the truth. Alhamdulillah for everything.
Alhamdulillah sister, I was born and raised Christian, stopped my faith around 16 but now I'm studying Islam but have gained respect for Christianity in some aspects when it's not the Catholic bubbles I lived in.
As an Ex-Muslim Atheist, I'm happy that you found ultimately found some peace in your life! Honestly, as long as you feel happy, fulfilled, not harm others or promote bigotry, just live your life as you see fit! :)
Genuine question: The Quran talks about sending people who don’t believe to hell, especially polytheists or atheists.. so what do you believe about that? Or the fact that men have have 4 wives and marry outside religion (intended for the spread of Islam), but women can’t marry outside of Islam or multiple partners. Or the part about gay people? And the parts that explicitly talk about what will happen to non-believers? I’m an ex Muslim. I’m gay, and that was just the starting block that really opened my eyes to the other things in the Quran, as well as how people and countries who follow their interpretations of the Quran behave like.
@@eidiazcasthat’s the thing though, in Islamic countries of sharia law it is pushed, you legally can’t convert out of Islam. You can be a Christian foreigner, and even in some levant countries as well as Egypt there are millions of Christians, yet you cant actually convert away publicly or on your ID if it is shown (with the exception of ironically the Arab country with the highest Christian population, you can convert religions, however only to Muslim or Christian, not any others). So I feel like the idea of “pushing” religions is honestly out of the question because it’s continuing to happen
SUUPPERR glad that you made this video. My take on why non-religious people think religious people are stupid is because they think believers of any faith, blindly follow something therefore don't have the ability to think critically or, don't know to. But as a Muslim, I know that's not true. In fact, my faith encourages me to constantly evaluate my actions and decisions, weighing the pros and cons of different choices. For example, if I have a job opportunity that goes against my personal and religious beliefs, I have to think carefully about what I should do. Figuring out what's best for me and my life constantly requires critical inquiry.
That’s not true at all Muslims make up 2 billion people and is the most popular religion after Christianity (approx 2.4 billion so not very far behind).
@@akshayde Not really my guy. Most religious individuals are aware of the concept of critical inquiry, although some may not have had a formal education to understand it under academic standards. However, they still possess the ability to think critically, even if they are not aware of it.
People are silly. The vast majority of "non-believing" people I've met (whether the obnoxious "religious people are stupid!" types, or simply ones minding their own business) are incredibly underdeveloped in their understanding of God, religion, or theology in general. I've yet to meet any of these types that have devoted serious study to the idea of God (let alone religion). They seem to kinda get taken up by their social circle's general hedonism(s), reject religion because of some childhood event/experience or simply spend excessive time consuming media to actually approach the subject objectively and critically. It kinda goes back to the point, no one really believes in "nothing". You either believe in God, or you take other things as a deity (be it other people/the opposite sex, consumption patterns/vices, wealth etc etc.). That's not even touching on the general agnosticism of the vast majority of self-declared atheists. The social role of religion is an entirely different discussion.
Shrug? I’m an atheist who’s studied all forms of abrahamic theology pretty intensely, and while I highly respect those religions, none have really managed to convince me in the existence of God. I’ve read the Bible and the Quran, lit menorahs and gone to catholic masses, even studied abrahamic mysticism. I love religion, I just don’t believe in it, and I don’t think that lack of belief makes me any more intelligent and vice versa
The reason why the majority of non-believers have such an underdeveloped idea of god is because theists like you have underdeveloped ideas of god that atheists have to do so little to counter. Your criticisms are so banal and parrot the same nonsense about atheists "making a diety of their own" since no one can "believe in nothing". No one needs a degree in theology or a deeper understanding of god to know that theists fail miserably to prove the existence of god. Your name finally rings a bell, you're the guy that got destroyed by vaush.
This is relatable, I'm not particularly religious but have a respect for religion due to my upbringing that isn't shared in secular spaces. I find it very frustrating. I've also seen the same religion influence the same people very differently in different parts of their lives. There is so much nuance that is lost when people talk about "religion". Thanks for making this. And existing on the internet. 🙂
True secularism , should be where you leave your personal opinions at home and treat everyone equal regardless of what they believe in shared spaces. This is what I follow. What you worship is not my business and what I do should not be yours either.
@@sashamellon822 The most easiest and clearest answer why all religions are false is: ALL RELIGIOUS SOULS LIVE IN BABYLON. CHRIST SAYS: Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. Muslims live in the babylon, being partakers of her sins. Hindus live in the babylon, being partakers of her sins. new agers live in the babylon, being partakers of her sins. Atheists live in the babylon, being partakers of her sins. Ignorats live in the babylon, being partakers of her sins. Satanists live in the babylon, being partakers of her sins. Catholics live in the babylon, being partakers of her sins. Christians = souls who are bible believers and obeyers, live being out from the Babylon and expose her wicked deeds.
I completely disagree. Your experience as a religious person is valid ofc, but doesn't reflect all religious people. It's harmful to assume that everyone who practices a religion has a wild amount of cognitive dissonance. I've seen both religious and non-religious people practice wild amounts of cognitive dissonance. I think cognitive dissonance is especially elevated in the presence of moral superiority, which both religious and non-religious people experience, depending on the environment they are in, much like the video mentions in the LA example.
i believe in god, but i feel religious people start thinking that they are god when they judge people for not living a similar life to theirs. Like they make me so uncomfortable. They always come off a bit condescending and rude... like they can't digest that others do not want to live a similar life to theirs. Some of us don't believe in heaven/hell and that is okay
I think the growing number of atheists has a lot to do with the rise of extremism and grifting (American fundamental mega-churches!). Karen Armstrong has written about this phenomenon also; she posited that WWII, especially the the Holocaust, is the likely reason so many Europeans have turned away from religion all together. I’m a Muslim btw, and love your channel 💚
heavily agree with you on that last point, Allah commands us to think and ponder, yet some of us are incapable of even that. look at Ibrahim (AS) he was searching for His Lord, and he had the intellectual capability to argue and win against those who took idols and objects as their diety, and the ability to actually search and distinguish.. i definitely do not think in any way that we are that much smarter than those who came before us.
Simply put: knowledge, experimentation, and intellectualism (philosophy, science, mathematics, etc.) migrated from religious spheres to secular spheres (academia, governmental institutions, business) Religion suffered brain drain due to the Age of Enlightenment and Reason, which resulted in the secularization of the modern world. Now religion must justify its existence through faith alone, which strips it of its validity and power - for better or worse. Faith based institutions are no longer centers for societal progress…because they are burdened with the task of justifying why they should even exist. And now they only exist to keep alive the philosophical exercise of justifying theism, and now they can only serve to provide moralism, mysticism, and meaning in life. Those of us who believe would do well to incorporate knowledge, science, and reason BACK into the religious spheres if we are to shed the label of stupidity…
For me the problem is hypocrisy. My muslim friends drink, smoke, hookup, go to the strip club, but they draw the line at eating pork or gay people. That's just dumb, pick a side
I loved this video! •I do agree that religion brings about discipline. It gives life a structure, a meaning, a direction. And hence we refer to it as a path. Those who are lost in life find a purpose, a reason through it. •I also understand that people are shifting out of religious labels, mostly because they have had traumatic incidents associated with it. They've experienced cult, religious practices used as punishment and have their artistic and/or emotional flow interrupted through it. •I also agree that meditation is helpful in increasing your focus and attention span. This is probably why people of olden times produced art and tools that have survived decades and centuries. That being said, a lot of religious practices are symbolic. A lower intelligence person finds structure through it and a higher intelligence person finds tools to adapt, change and strengthen themselves. In times of lockdowns, religion and spirituality has given people the will to live. Structure insures growth. But just like every other thing in life, too much of structure, or a hectic structure can suffocate individuality - leading to the desire to break free. I also loved it when you said "We move from one bubble to another." It is such a brilliant quote!
One of your best videos! Brave of you as well (sad to think that one needs bravery to voice such opinions today). Would super enjoy further explorations around this topic should you wish :)
Once again, such a thoughtful post. I'm non-religous myself and I suspect that the negative feelings towards people of faith comes from the (seeming) fact that it's the most extreme, fundamentalist, evangelical branches of the various faiths that are the loudest and most sensational, grabbing all the attention and thus equating being religious with their own personal brand of extreme faith. In other words, it's the extremists that give their religion a bad rep.
Yeps! Theists or atheists who are Fundamentalists are some of the worst people I have met. And it's even more annoying when they are also hypocrites who don't practice what they preach, but rather focus on being self-righteous towards others.
I think "delusional" is more of an appropriate word to describe religious people. You can be a rocket scientist and still be tempted to believe in religion.
Off the bat I don’t think religious people are stupid, but like you and others have said before when it gets into “group think” things can get tricky because people aren’t thinking for themselves. I think even being “religious” is nuanced. There are those that practice religions but opt out of organized religion (like churches). So is it then a spectrum or are those people just “spiritual”? I have questions 😂
group think works the other way around too. Converts are often harshly ostracised by their community, friends, family, and most of the time the reasons are purely ignorance and the immediate shock of someone close to you "rejecting" what you see is the norm
@@jiminici3351 We are not in disagreement. My use of “group think” may not have been clear enough in my comment. My meaning is that any situation in which one blindly agrees with the beliefs or thoughts of a group without question is a problem.
I always hated the reductive statement that religion comforts because "it gives an answer". Maybe that's true for some people, but my own religious experience has been full of uncertainty and questions. It's why "faith" is a necessary part of not just religion, but life and making choices. It's a lot more complicated living with faith in God than people think. Also, on a tangent, the idea that you're just going to die and everything is an accident seems like just as much as of a cop-out and form of solace. There's no uncertainty in such conception.
I agree, and its a very generalising statement. For example, a lot of people frame why religious people observe their religion is because they want to go to heaven and avoid hell-- neither concept exist in my religion, we are not particularly concerned with the afterlife. Our answer is that we don't know. So how does that fit into the idea that religion gives us an answer to these difficult topics?
No matter how much I sit and question and get bothered in my religion I can’t seem to shake away the feeling of needing to seek out a faith or connection to the creator of this planet. Sometimes I feel so conflicted with the small and what might seem like silly detailed rituals but to completely live life as an atheist doesn’t sit right with me. Deep down I can’t convince myself that all of this just exists randomly for no reason. That factor alone is what always brings me back.
I would call some of them "lazy thinkers" instead of calling stupid. Because honestly, it's easier to buy instant food than it is to plant seeds, grow, harvest, and finally eat. It feels good to be in a place where you have a full tummy and feel safe with people like you. So we humans choose comfort and call it a religion (sometimes) On the other hand, I find some religious people "manipulative genius" Because they have the insidiousness to read their religion, they find a way according to their own interests and wishes, no matter what. They have right to steal your foods or ruin your field. And those people don't choose religion actually they choose to be God... And me as a religious person, I hope I am not one of them, in this metaphor. Maybe I am still exploring, foraging or hunting in the wild to survive, not civilized yet😅
I don't think religious people are stupid, but those in religion who are scholarly are just that, scholars. I don't think there are enough religious people who think critically about their religion (and sometimes by extension think critically about things beyond religion), but I think that has less to do with the religion itself and more with culture, upbringing, and the fact that the average person doesn't have the time/resources to think about these things. It also feels like the more question and qualms one has, the more push back is received, so "blind faith" is the more acceptable outcome. I also find that most people who are "religious" aren't actually _that_ religious. Who has the time? I do attribute the word "religion" to organized practice, and not to personal spiritual beliefs. That I call "spirituality" and it's more of the approach I take. I've gone Christian > Wicca > Shinto > exploring Islam and no matter what religions or spiritualities I've explored I've always met people who take the 'that's the way it is, ask no questions or ask a scholar' or 'I don't really care and you shouldn't either' approach and neither work with me. I want discussion without being dogmatic. People long for community but I find fellowshipping hard because of that group think that you mention. But at the end of the day I've realized that "fellowship" could legit just be one other person who's willing to talk with me and when it comes down to it my spirituality is mine and mine alone.
@ImJustJaime if you’re exploring Islam rn I think you might enjoy Bayyinah Institute on RUclips. the content might be appealing to you because the teacher Nouman Al Khan often has a critical lens of viewing the world + is back by religious thinking. It’s a good mix! And I think it’ll place more light on why scholar don’t go beyond just their scholarship.
Very interesting to see a nice, calmly discussed opinion from a religious person on the decline of religiosity and society's acceptance of religious people. I am an atheist, but I am very happy that people find something in religion for themselves and I don't think that it makes anybody 'stupid' or 'less intelligent' to be religious at all. I do however think that religious belief being pushed as social policy to the detriment of other non-religious or differently religious people is a terrible thing. I think a lot of the 'anti-religion' discourse is also from formerly religious people who have suffered religious trauma, or from people who are mostly targeting the political hate movements that dress themselves up as religion that we unfortunately have to deal with in the world (evangelical christian extremism, islamic fundamentalism, hindu extremism, etc.). I don't think it's unfair to criticize those harmful things but we should absolutely not show any prejudice or criticism towards people living their best life with religion being a part of that. I think if religion provides structure and meaning to your life and doesn't impede your ability to think rationally, examine evidence, or accept other opinions then that's great.
I don't think the question "Are religious people idiots?" is the question we should be answering. This statement barely scrapes the surface to the wider topic at hand and, therefore, is not an opinion shared by most people on the other side (non-religious people). However, this statement is constantly uttered by those that have not fully fleshed out their argument because if they had then they would have eventually/hopefully come to the conclusion that it is not about smarts but about if the individual gives the same amount of deep thought to their beliefs as they do with their studies, If the individual is able to look at their beliefs from all angles so that they are able to disprove/prove them, If the individual is able to be objective when it comes to analysing their beliefs, etc. Most religious people are not able to do this, therefore, I think that the question we should be answering is "Do religious people lack critical thinking...when it comes to their beliefs?" But of course, this is just my opinion and people can believe and practice whatever they want as long as it does not harm others.
I never left Islam per se, but after the Pulse Nightclub shooting occurred my local mosque talked about it without actually disavowing homophobia the shooter had and never talked about how to intelligently combat homophobia in the Muslim community - it opened my eyes and made me realize the Muslim community as a whole is behind the times. I definitely have met religious individuals who are hella smart (heck half my friends are brilliant & are observant Muslims to some degree) but I feel that Islam, and really all religions, are still stuck in orthodoxy, sexism, and hetero-patriarchy and aren’t critically challenging these status quos. Edit: Apparently over 100+ Muslim scholars, PhD's, and Islamic organizations in North America just recently signed a statement re-affirming their stance on the separation of Islam & the LGBT community, and it just further proved my point. Even the most educated, literate, and forward thinking Muslims still can't reconcile religion and modern issues. My heart grieves for the pain this is going to cause to so many, both within the Muslim community & in the LGBT community - especially for those who identify with both.
Like you said, it’s so nuanced. I think it’s true that some people are incapable of thinking for themselves and it prevents them from questioning and comprehending their religion on a deep level. Some people are broken and religion helps them heal. Also, we all interpret religious philosophy in different ways. We could listen to the same imam talk for an hour and have a different experience. Ones relationship with God is very personal and we should acknowledge that next time we judge anyone based on their spirituality. I took Shahada 3 years ago. I haven’t been practicing because of the transphobia and homophobia in the community. I don’t, however, believe all Muslims are unintelligent homophobic idiots. I don’t think homophobia and transphobia aligns with Islam but it’s up to every individual believer how they want to interpret that and research that for themselves.
its not the "phobia" its the fact that its forbidden. it has nothing to do with what we think. imagine if we all followed our wishes instead of following Allah's commandments, we would be led astray. of course, we treat them as humans though.
@@gabriellemurphy6330 Of course they don't, it's just that we certainly do not support what they do. Not supporting people for what they do and ostracizing them are two whole different things. And Islam preaches how important it is to respect other human beings, doesn't matter if their values don't allign with yours. I reccomend you watch the lecture of Dr. Ammar Nakhshwani on homosexuality and the same, hopefully that'll make you understand what's islam take is on this whole situation.
If all I knew about islam was that it believes in executing gay people (or those who engage in sexual relations with members of the same sex, if you want to be pedantic), then that would be enough for me to say I fundamentally disagree with its ethos. It’s morally reprehensible. I’m sorry. I have no issues with muslims at all. Not in the slightest.
@@sayyednaqvi7973 homophobia noun ho· mo· pho· bia ˌhō-mə-ˈfō-bē-ə : irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or gay people transphobia noun trans· pho· bia ˌtran(t)s-ˈfō-bē-ə ˌtranz- : irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against transgender people I wasn’t going to say anything else, but these comments have been weighing heavily on my mind. You don’t see the red flag here; your religion states that God forbids the gay people he created. I am bisexual. My brother is trans. My whole family is autistic. Don’t you see that we can’t be Muslim? That is a huge red flag. We can’t just pretend we aren’t queer. God made us a certain way. Being told to ignore our identities for God proves your ignorance. The more I learn about neurodivergence, the more I realize religion was created by man. God would never make participating in religion this impossible for us. It’s man that makes it impossible for us. Man’s ignorance created religion, not God. I don’t believe for a second that God wants me to act heterosexual. I don’t believe God wants my brother to suffer in a body he doesn’t feel safe or comfortable in. I took shahada. I wore hijab for almost a year. I learned how to pray. I was learning Arabic. I fasted for Ramadan. I listened to so many talks and lectures. I followed hundreds of Muslims on social media. But the one thing I couldn’t get past was the idea that homosexuals can’t be Muslim. I learned that being transgender and/or gay is punishable by death in many Muslim nations. Huge. Red. Flag. When my brother came out as trans, I couldn’t be in denial and ignore this any longer. I got sick and tired of looking for excuses for it. I got sick and tired of looking for excuses for the misogyny, too. I’m sorry, but religious texts are written for men by men. These are the reasons people think you’re unintelligent. www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/06/14/countries-where-being-gay-is-legally-punishable-by-death/39574685/ www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/homophobia www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transphobia
Stupid people are just stupid. Infact the more I studied quantum physics the stronger my faith became. My sister had the same experience studying mathematics. At some point you reach a point of scientific knowledge where 0=1 and you realize that believing in science requires the same effort as believing in faith and that the possibilities in this world are endless.
I felt the same when I realized that the possibility of going backwards in time wasn't 0. Highly improbable? Absolutely. But not zero, and all I can think of it what physics on a macro level would look like if we existed in that highly improbable universe.
I also think that since Christianity is the "norm" in the US (so much so that atheists and other non-religious people celebrate Christian holidays like Christmas, Easter, etc), these now ex-Christians struggle to separate other religions from Christianity as the/their norm when they're making these statements. They seem to boil Judaism down to pre-Christianity, and Islam to post-Christianity, which means that when they even bother to think about other religions and what those people's experiences may be, they continue to center Christianity which is incredibly frustrating for those of us in either of those religions, or outside of that religious experience. There's a huge emphasis on learning and being well-read/educated in Judaism that extends past religious texts, in addition to asking questions and questioning g-d, which makes it extra frustrating for me as a Jewish woman to constantly be lumped in with Christians who blindly accept the faith they were brought up in (which I believe is the true target of the "innocent/dumb religious person" commentary many ex-Christians make). My comment is all over the place, but know that I agree with what you're saying here wholeheartedly!
Christianity is a diverse religious group. To believe that EVERY Christian globally and since the first century are like the modern hyper-emotive American Evangelical/Pentacostal trope we see here is ahistorical and deeply misguided. I agree that other (non-Christian) religions should be judged independently on their own merit, but this is more of an American behavioral trend where Americans talk about everything in relation to themselves, as though America existed first and then the rest of the world.
@@lisaburke7506 Hence why I said "I also think that since Christianity is the "norm" in the US..." at the very beginning of my comment. I'm not talking about Christianity globally as that is not my experience with Christianity. My experience with Christians is American-centric.
I’m not very religious person either but islam has many values that are very great can be adopted in our daily life . But definitely its not true that religious people are stupid
Religious people still carry values morals and respect and try there level best not to be duped into materialism or capitalism Self control and awareness of a greater purpose and power I believe anyway A person addicted to worldly gain and pleasure will find it difficult to understand spiritual livelihood
I have too many disorganized thoughts about this topic right now so I'll wait to create coherent sentences BUT I needed to let you know how much I love this video and your content in the past year (or two?). So grateful for all that you do Masha'Allah.
You have lack of understanding in theology and philosophy no this is not what religious people believe they believe in a omnipotent god you are straw manning and have a ad homomiean in your arugment
My brother convertet to islam and stopped drinking so as long as he is using it to support good values I dont care. We were raised orthodox but not much value was put in religion. I just dont support any religion who goes against people, any people.
Atheist here. I grew up Christian Orthodox in Eastern Europe, in a very VERY religious country. Lost my faith ~15 years ago, and in the first few years, seeing what’s going on in my country, I did believe that most religious people are stupid. But the thing is, many religious institutions& leaders exploit the gullibility of ignorant people. Mind you, people are not ignorant cuz they choose to, but because socio-economic and political situation keeps them like that. They have so much to worry about, and work to do, that their only comfort is in God. That’s about the only thing that brings them joy. Now I’ve also met educated people who chose God, they are some of the smartest and kindest people I know. Religious and stupid folks are a tiny minority but unfortunately they are the ones we’re usually shown on tv and social media, and they are usually victims of their environment. Same as every stereotype. We need to start looking past the appearances and stop judging so easily.
Religious and stupid people are a tiny minority?? 1) The overwhelming majority of the world is religious in some way. Roughly 85% of the globe claims to have some kind of super natural beliefs. 2) No matter how you want to measure intelligence, HALF of all people will be "below average". How do you get a "tiny minority" from a ven diagram of 2 groups that encompasses somewhere near 40 to 45% of humanity? When nearly half the globe is below average and is walking around talking about ghosts, or ancestors spirits, or invisible super heros in the sky that they can cast a magic spell to and thar super hero friend will alter or control reality on their behalf...I have trouble thinking of that as a "tiny minority". They are one of the largest blocks of people I can think of, in fact.
If anyone thinks they can generalize 4,000+ recognized religions in sweeping statements with no nuance then I would say that's truly the mark of either a serious ego problem, lack of understanding, or both
It’s frustrating that most people aren’t aware of the contemplative practices of these religions/spiritual traditions. Alan Wallace & Rupert Sheldrake explain how these contemplative practices (which is basically first-person methodology for studying consciousness; aka phenomenology) not only have practical benefits for everyone but also help one to actually have an experience with a nonphysical consciousness (divinity it you will). Neuroscientist Andrew Newberg has written extensively about & provided evidence for how these practices have positive impacts to one’s brain & physical well-being. Western culture is dominated by physicalism which is a philosophical worldview, not a scientific fact. There’s more to this topic than all I just said but I wish the average person was more aware of this. Hopefully the Essentia Foundation gains more recognition as the personnel who’re apart of that organization are trying to help spread the knowledge of this topic & are also attacking physicalism too.
I've got so much to say on this!! I used to be super atheist anti religion and thought all religious people were idiots. I started to change around age 17/18 when I realized lots of extremely intelligent people I respected were religious (to be clear, tons of non religious folks are as well its not cut and dry), so my beliefs did not make sense anymore. Growing up in the West where all I was exposed to was extreme Christianity made me think all religion was some kind of form of Christianity, which is incorrect and offensive to all the different religions and cultures put there. What's crazy is that I don't come from a Christian heritage, but my family chose to raise me secular and ignorant of our culture which seriously impacted me. More recently I have been engaging with my family's old religious/cultural customs and I have had to re learn so much because my entire conceptualisation of religion came from such a Western Christian perspective. Like the concept of an ethno-religion (which I come from) does not make sense to a lot of Christians or Western atheists because religion is seen as something that should be entirely removed from ethnicity or culture when it often is not. My biggest gripe these days is getting non religious people who come from Western/Christian worldviews to understand how much their understanding of religion comes from Christianity even if they themselves aren't Christian. Like recently a non religious person argued with me that I can't celebrate a certain holiday from my heritage unless I am a full believer yet they say that Christmas, Easter, etc are all 100% secular and don't count when its them who do the same. Anyways rant over, thanks for the video.
And don't even get me started on celebrities appropriating Kabbalah and completely misinterpreting it-- similar to randomly using Buddhist symbols and beliefs etc or cherrypicking from other religions like Hinduism that they deem "exotic" while acting as if they are above the people who actually practice those religions. It's interesting to me that having a room full of crystals, reading star signs, and having tarot cards read is seen as cool by young folks but if these were seriously practiced by a devout person it would be ridiculed.
Well said! I agree, a lot of folks who have limited exposure to religion have typically only been exposed to some form of Christianity. They usually try to project that one understanding of “religiosity” onto other religions. I think this prevents people from fully comprehending the expansive diversity of religions around the world. Like, a religion might not just be about “believing where you go after death”. Or “believing what’s good or bad”. Some religions don’t focus on afterlife or morality as much. Some religions focus on lifestyle and daily living instead, which ties into the cultural and ethnic aspects you mention.
hello! i respectfully want to point out that easter actually has pretty much pagan roots in it (u can search up on the topic of ostara as an example, there are more!). have a good day
@@anastasima Yes to an extent, but please understand that 1. Easter as it is practice in the West is Christian currently and saying it is pagan to force non Christians into accepting it is gross, and 2, paganism is not secular. Paganism goes directly against my religion/culture's beliefs and are not compatible. Neo pagans in my experience are some of the most guilty of thinking their practices are secular and appropriate so much stuff from other cultures.
The tooth fairy/ Santa analogy was my Atheist motto from like age 8 to 21. I do try to keep a more open mind on life in general these days, and when it boils down to it: There are stupid atheists. There are stupid religious people. You do you, me do me. But if you start infringing on humans rights or religious freedom, we are going to have a problem.
I agree with you: religion doesn't seem to be linked to "how smart" someone is. According to IQ and standardized tests, I am highly intelligent. But I was raised Pentecostal and spent the first 30 years of my life deeply entrenched in Pentecostalism/Evangelicalism here in the US. Now, though, I am atheist. Reality just did not work the way the "church" told me it would, and I had to put all of that aside to start facing reality as it really is. That led me to questioning a lot of other stuff I had been taught, and I realized it just wasn't for me. I do think, though, religion gives a lot of people ("intelligent" or not) easy answers to questions that can be uncomfortable for them to face, and that's why so many people hang onto it without having to be manipulated the way cults manipulate people. I feel more authentic not hanging onto religion, but I respect that for many people, that is how they get through life's challenges with their sanity intact. (For the record, I felt like I was more susceptible to being drawn into a cult when I was devoutly religious than I am now as an atheist who appeals to reason, not faith.)
Your opinions at the end make sense and I feel you are on the right track. Here are some additional points to ponder over: - Why is it that some forms of ancient wisdom are still passed down to this day? Will the words of the smartest professors or the memes from the most charismatic influencers still be around in a generation or two? Seriously, becoming "irrelevant" is the norm, so there needs to be some truth to a message for it to be passed through time and across different environments and doubly so without any changes to the essence of the original message. Simultaneous denial of ancient wisdom and acceptance of new ideologies is a hypocritical stance to take. - re lower IQ people in religion: Why hate on lower IQ people getting to have structure and a lifestyle that can include them? What happened to respecting organizations that are inclusive? Or is it just a sense of class superiority among the "high IQ"? Sure, smart people can have all sorts of new ideas and opinions about older ideas, but it doesn't mean they are right! Smart people think they are right because they are used to being right in a specific domain and will shun others from stepping into the nuances of their domain, but when they start professing expertise in other domains they seem to forget this. More hypocrisy! When it comes to subjective topics, basically anything not in the math and harder sciences, most "experts" are not "right" either as there are many widely conflicting viewpoints in their fields. - Smart people are beyond cults? Uhh that's not true. Look into the rationalist movement and try to convince anyone they are not a cult. - How does individualism play into all of this? If the individual's feelings are prioritized over the goodwill of the collective, then of course the collective ideology will erode. How long can this mindset last, especially when pretty much any society requires cooperation at the expense of individual freedoms? We can't get everything, that is collective alignment and also individual liberation, for free without swallowing the trade-offs between different approaches.
As an atheist myself, I think it’s complicated LOL. I think people dismiss or take for granted how the information and narratives we adopt are often the information that is made most accessible or convenient to us. In other words, we are not objective arbiters of truth, we are social sponges and parroters of information, information that is adopted within the confines of our social bubbles, be those our local or online communities we access. I would argue belief and an irreligious identity are more informed through social access to information rather than having much to do with intelligence. Worth acknowledging is that “intelligence” has always been a challenge to define and is also informed through social factors. Who defines intelligence, after all? I think the decline in religiosity has to do with access to information and connection through the Internet and social media. It allows for alternative communities to form and break away from traditional communities, with mixed consequences. Social media allows people to be exposed to and engage with others in ways traditional communities didn’t provide many opportunities for. It allows us to immediately access information far beyond the local community and the library. This allows us to both be more informed and misinformed in some rather extreme ways and foster identities that otherwise likely would’ve been unpopular had the conditions been different.
I'm a Catholic revert, who stopped practicing before college and then came back to the faith just before I graduated from college. I definitely agree with a lotttt of what you said, especially around reasons that question the popular take that people are less religious because of higher education. I know your perspective is that of a Muslim, but if one thinks back on the great intellectual minds before the modern era, almost all came from a religious background. The Catholic Church in particular produced so many of the people we can cite for mathematical/astronomical/philosophical understandings that still stand today. If religion only encourages mindless following of the morals laid out in that religion, why are so many of the people we study from history of a religious background? I also would like to point out that there is an obvious (to me, anyways) difference in the intellectuality of followers of "orthodox" faiths (let's say religions like Catholicism, Islam, Eastern Orthodoxy, Judaism, etc) and followers of non-denominational-type faiths. These religions with strong pillars seem to more often than not encourage a lot of reflection on the faith and meditation on the pillars of that faith, whereas some other religions encourage that you blindly follow their directives without discernment, which definitely leads to that cult-like feel that you described.
It’s definitely hard to be a religious person nowadays, I think a lot of people associate religion with religious trauma/abuse/guilt/fear/shame/judgement. A lot of homophobia as well. And that’s usually because of the upbringing and religious community that people grow up in, which is a damn shame. There’s a lot of stuff I’ve had to unlearn as a Muslim woman, behaviours and opinions that I saw as a child and still see in my community. I think if those negative feelings weren’t associated with religion and religious people, maybe there wouldn’t be such a strong anti-religion wave happening right now. But that will take massive and systemic change on the parts of religious communities. Thanks for shining a light on this Tazzy! Great topic and great take.
I agree! There’s a lot of work to do within our community to dissociate the trauma from religious people/ religion. Which is where the true intelligence lies in my opinion. Do we continue to hold on traditional values often misrepresenting Islam or do we go back to the text and see Islam for what it is. I think the answer of religious trauma and guilt lies within the Quran but the way we’re presenting that information atm doesn’t serve benefit.
If I told you that I believe in Santa Claus or a talking monkey from space because it makes me a better person or because my family raised me to believe that; you would also think I’m kinda stupid.
I really think religious people can be disciplined, or are very acute to their surroundings. I remember watching the Olympics one year and seeing one figure skater, Yuna Kim, and being impressed by how in tune and comfortable she was in her surroundings. Then, I learned that she was a practicing Catholic. Now, I'm a Catholic, and I don't necessarily consider myself to be disciplined or acute to my surroundings, but I do feel that there is some sense of pattern and organization to my life as a whole. Also, love the video. Keep up the good work, Tazzy!
I think a lot about this. What has religion brought us throughout history that is being lost? Why do we as humans need it? We know that religious people live longer - I suspect that is due to 1) community 2) sense of purpose and meaning in life 3) lifecycle rituals and 4) washing our hands (at least for Jews and Muslims) For me, connection to my ancestors through ritual is the most important part of religious practice. In Judaism, constantly questioning is part of the core of the religion, so an argument that "lack of questioning" just shows that people don't know enough. A lot of religion is useful tools for approaching complex problems, some of which secular society has solved in modern times without using religious text/instructions like food safety and determining parentage of children. additionally, shame and group-think is often a big part of religion (and religious trauma) and is why a lot of folks leave the space
I was raised Muslim but I knew from an early age that following one organized religion wasn’t going to work for me, yet I have never considered the thought that religious people are stupid! I love learning about all religions and applying this knowledge to help me explore my own spirituality. Undoubtedly religion can provide guidance, like a framework. So I think it is a useful tool for the human mind and depending on the person, religion can be used for good or twisted to inflict harm but I don’t think it is inherently good or bad. If people don’t want to think critically they will do that with or without religion tbh. “religious people are stupid” is a lazy blanket statement imo.
As a former christian, my explanation as to why religion is decreasing is that it has simply become more acceptable to not be religious. I know it sounds obvious, but compare today to 70 years ago, this was not acceptable. Some people are religious while some are not, and so I think the number of people who are religious will continue decreasing but religion will not die out, it will stabilize and the only people left will be those that actually wanted to be religious. Forcing the entire population to be 100% christian (at least in my native country) never made sense to begin with
This is such an interesting video! As someone who grew up religious but stepped away as soon as I left the range of that community, I have seen both sides of the spectrum. It's always felt like a high and mighty game to me from both ends? Being all in on something will bring out that black-and-white thinking, and most humans don't like being told that the way they live is wrong but if you believe a doctrine to the letter in your denomination (whether that be a traditional religion or atheism) then you will end up alienating and wagging the finger at those who don't follow what you believe. At the end of the day though, religion and purposeful non-religion is such a personal thing. I understand that many want to spread the word and bring people into the fold, but the world is far more gray and nuanced than that vision hopes for. I would much prefer to just allow people to believe what they believe (as long as it's not actively harming people) and let them be. I've come to the personal philosophy that if someone says that they are a follower of a doctrine, then they have to uphold and follow the rules they've chosen to guide their life - while others can happily follow their own free of judgment (once again, as long as it's not harming people).
i havent watched the video yet but no, religious people aren't idiots, however given the way that religious people have acted throughout history, non-religious people kinda have the right to believe that a lot of religious people are
I think a lot of religions, especially ones that are more orthodox or controlling, like Mormonism, Catholicism, and Jehovah’s Witnesses incorporate thought-stopping cliches and/or keep members very busy with multiple meetings or activities a week. This doesn’t make the members of high-control religions stupid, but they’re being taught not to think critically about their religion or the world around them in general. If you’re interested in the psychology of cults and high-control groups, I’d suggest looking into the BITE model (Behavior Information Thought and Emotion control) and the influence continuum. Also, I completely agree that meditation and the community surrounding religious groups can be hugely beneficial for people. Religion can satisfy the need for mindfulness and community that we all need as human beings. Religion isn’t the only thing that can satisfy these needs, of course, but there are benefits to religious practice, and it’s not wrong to make it a part of your life. I only think it’s wrong to evangelize and push religion onto others (which is not at all what this video is doing, for the record).
Religious people are not stupid. People believe in or follow religious practices for many reasons. Without an in-depth conversation with someone it's not possible to understand their viewpoint on why they believe or not. Also does it matter if someone is smarter than another person? All humans are inherently valuable. I'm tired of people judging one another for all sorts of attributes outside of our control. Just let people live. If they're not using religion as a tool to harm people (or atheism as a tool for harm) then I honestly could not care less.
Having low intelligence (of one kind or another) isn't an inherently bad thing. When atheists call religious people stupid, they are making an implicit judgment that connects intelligence with an individual's worth. The spectre of intellectual disability looms large. What gets lost in the "are religious people stupid?" debate is the discrimination people with intellectual disabilities face - in religious, secular, and atheist spaces. How can we make the spaces we occupy more accessible? How can we start healing from a long history of exclusion and stigma?
I remember when I was doing my CATs test in my primary school in the UK, they stopped me answering more questions on the paper on my test paper, some other kids were stopped to. So my IQ level was put at low. Later when I went to secondary school, I thought I was stupid. It was more racially mixed school, I became more religious, did CATs again, I got higher but never bother listening to the result as I thought I was stupid. Then later I studied, ended up doing Law LLB in Uni, did several IQ tests got about 120-140 results, so I am a descent IQ and religious, love praying 5x a day, tajjud ( night prayer) and dhikr (similar to meditation but remembering Allah swt alone in solitude) and wearing burka. I would not consider myself stupid....what narrowed minded people
The way I see it, there's nothing inherently better about religious people than non-religious, or vice versa. We all live in our own cultures, and regardless of what we may point at and say "cult" from the outside, there are others outside of our groups who probably think WE are a cult. Linguistically there's no difference between a culture and a cult, just the negative connotation the latter bears. Imo people are far too quick to discount something they are unfamiliar with. If you learn more, and decide that the harm outweighs the virtues, that's okay too, but don't just listen to what other people say about "those people". That's where we get bigotry and essentialism.
I think it depends, spirituality is definitely it’s own intelligence in my opinion, because it comes with being in tune with yourself and the universe on a deeper level.. but I also feel like some religions completely ignore aspects like evolution, and ignoring the history of human existence I feel like is inherently “stupid”, because if you had actually have read on the subject you wouldn’t not believe it, given the overwhelming amount of evidence
Also though, the things some of these religions say, specifically the Abrahamic religions, are contradicting, small-minded, and honestly in my opinion just so morally wrong and unethical. There’s a difference if you believe in the base of it while just ignoring certain aspects, but if you believe in everything in religions such as Christianity or Islam, than you either support contradiction to today’s society and also imo have some extremely unethical beliefs, or you ignore aspects of the religion, whether you realize it or not.. which is which most people do
Okay evolution is still debated by scientists today, that's why we still call it the THEORY of evolution yes there is evidence but that doesn't necessarily mean that makes it true, what about the concepts scientists believed in the past? They also had evidence and thus why science declared them as fact but later on still got debunked
And plus Abrahamic religions do believe in evolution (which involves mutations of animals and them interbreeding with another species - there is evidence for this ) but not in human evolution
I think the points you touched on at the last part of the video have more to do with capitalism than spirituality/lack thereof. But global capitalism could thus be a reason for the shift in religious decline.
Although I think this is a great discussion, but I think I know what is not being taken into consideration: indoctrination Indoctrination can happen anywhere, anytime- but especially in the context of religion. When you’re a child, you’re told many things about (not really) how the world works and you should do this and you should do that, and when you’ve lived your life being told that this is things are for a very long time, you just accept them as true, a fact of life- just as how the sky is blue(and this is regardless weather you’re smart or stupid). When something goes against what you’ve believed your whole life, you usually have to be defensive about it, and will defend what you dearly believe, even if it goes against common sense or basic morality( obviously this isn’t true for all people, but it happens, and still happens) What I think is missing from the ‘religious people are stupid’ argument is that religious people aren’t necessarily dumb, is that they see the world in a flawed point of view, which (depending on the religion) goes against all logic, all moral, and still follow this obviously flawed (to atheists at least) religion, without even a second thought. That’s what I see missing, cus that’s what indoctrination can do, and is why religious trauma exists For the other side however, Tazzy seems to have glossed over religious fanatics( which I get, wasn’t really the point of the video) and what happens in ultra religious countries, especially in Muslim ones( Pakistan, Afghanistan just to name a few) and how backward and intolerant they can be towards other groups (the Yazidis in Iraq for example, and more importantly Jews in general). Again, this is besides the point, but it shows how religious extremism can harm and oppress people, and how that can affect people’s perception of religion as a whole, just by looking at theses places and much more. She also mentioned about how even smart people engage in cults, and that they aren’t necessarily stupid. While I agree, that would also mean that it doesn’t matter how smart you are, it’s more about how impressionable you are. There are many instances of smart people who started cults and exploited the shit out of people, weather it was money, sex or even property, which I see is an even bigger issue than ‘who’s dumber?’ Damn this was long. Anyway, these are just my thoughts on the issue as a whole. You can give your opinions about what I wrote, just be respectful. Thanks so munch if you made it here, it actually means a lot
The funny thing about "intelligence" in religion is that it gets used to reconcile their belief in all kinds of creative ways, there are lots of arguments and philosophy, a lot of it incredibly smart, but the funny thing is, it doesn't converge, it does the opposite, we get more and more variation! This can even cause groups to splinter into different groups, religions seem to keep splitting into more and more diverse groups. This divergence tends to suggest it really isn't anchored in reality, that it's more a creative human phenomenon. When things are anchored in reality, we see the opposite happen, we get convergence, more and more agreeing, more and more different approaches that fundamentally arrive at the same conclusions.
I get what they mean. Maybe stupid is not the best word, but naive and stuck in black and white thinking a lot of the time for sure. Also tribalism. (This is not to say that a person can't engage in tribalism or black and white thinking without religion, sure they can. But this is specifically about religion so I am speaking to that). I think younger people are increasingly identifying as less religious because the worldview of religion is so outmoded and no longer serves most of us. At least speaking about the Abrahamic religions or religions of the book as some folks call them, they're colonial and misogynistic and most people just don't see any use in carrying that forward. The harm they have done far outweighs the good for many people. Also, I don't think discipline and productivity are necessarily a good thing, right? They're really ableist and capitalist concepts, the idea that being "disciplined" makes you an inherently better person. (Joe Rogan is really ableist so I'm not surprised). Also, the idea that religion/ancient people/the natural/ etc had more knowledge that we have now lost is also problematic in a lot of ways.
For me it's not that I think that they are stupid for believing in a God, that's harmless, I think they are stupid because they are believing the words of other people about God, Giving them money because they have faith in them and in the past marching to their drum beats over conflicts that the leaders most likely started themselves. Actually it's safe to say that if religion hadn't caused so much blood to be spilled and division amongst mankind I wouldn't have a bad thing to say about it at all.
Good topic. It seems a lot of people shun religion now because it has many restrictions and sacrifices but they dont see people benefiting from it. Also, they feel that way because such a large percentage of very religious people have not accomplished much. And they dont believe ancient people had greater knowledge based on a lack of evidence.
I have lived most of my life secularly, and more recently embraced Jewish faith. I think my faith has strengthened my intelligence; it forces me to question EVERYTHING. To be Jewish is literally to "wrestle with God", meaning it isn't at all blind faith. Judaism has contributed an incalculable amount of scholars to the world just as Islam has.
@@curiouscat5229 One could not worship both religions at the same time, it would go against rules of both religions. However it is possible to be ethnically Jewish and religiously Muslim. Or to have been raised Muslim and then to convert to Judaism, but still have some of that culture ingrained within you. I think this is beautiful! Cultural exchange and religion are the bread and butter of this life.
I don’t believe religious people are “idiots” anyone can be an idiot. I did want to comment on how you said there are less religious people in places like Turkiye and Iran, I believe that is because of their governments/politics and it’s not a true “freedom” of religion but enforcement upon them.
Sorry if I am being too demanding here but can you share what sort of effect Mr Erdogan's rule has on the religiosity of turkish youth ??? I want to understand the female perspective on this.
i think religion is neutral. from what i can tell all religions have parts about being nice, treating others with kindness, etc. but they also seem to have... not so nice parts. personally, i don't think having faith or lack there of indicates anything about a person's intelligence. what i will say tho is that it seems easier and more common for ppl to use religion as an excuse to harm others. i mean rn the conservative christians are basically trying to do a genocide against trans ppl. and that i have issues with.
Yes, they are. Theres litteraly no scenario where you can argue that its no idiotic to blindly believe in something youve no evidence for and to further blind yiurself by claiming to have a relationship with a god or gods
as an agnostic I personally dislike religion in general, i do sometimes get exasperated when debating with religious people but i respect everyones beliefs and opinions.
U R DAMN RIGHT, BEING STUPID OR NOT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING RELIGIOUS, AND I'M A VERY SECULAR JEW MY BIG BROTHER FOR EXAMPLE IS VERY INTELIGENT AND SMART AND HE BECAME VERY RELIGIOUS MANY YEARS AGO.
Smart people can believe in dumb ideas. However dumb people believe in dumb ideas more often. Religion is, in my opinion, a dumb idea. I know lots of brilliant religious people.
when you die, your loved ones will likely talk more about your impact on them, not your intelligence. and if religion is what helps you be a better person, so be it, i know it helps me personally:) completely agree that socialization matters! we're forgetting how many great scientists and thinkers in the past were religious too, and we know they weren't dumb, they laid the foundations for our modern knowledge. they were raised in a religious world, many of us now aren't, that's the only difference
I'm Mexican-American, was not raised religious but did end up going to my friends' evangelical church for several years and left Christianity by the time I graduated high school. I'm also queer and trans. my biggest difficulties are 1) the history of Christianity and what it's done to my people, both Mexicans and queer/trans people, and 2) any religion that says being queer or trans is wrong. it's anti-historical at best - plenty of cultures all through history have had gender-variant/attraction-variant people. hijra, bakla, mahu, muxe, sworn virgins, nadleeh, etc etc. it's all just another perfectly normal roll of the dice. we've always been here and we'll always be here. also going to add the very specifically US problem of the never ending mass shootings. when you have a whole group of people spending more time trying to force schools to display the Ten Commandments than actually making sure the students in those schools survive to the end of the school day, there's a problem. we have a bunch of supposed Christians whose actions display that they actually worship guns, money, power, or some combination thereof. we also have a bunch of supposedly good people who are too afraid to identify as anything other than Christian because they've never really met anyone who lived happily outside of/without Christianity. (I know I'm missing some stuff, but I've rewritten this three times now so you get what you get lmao)
Where I live we have all the religions and if you don't associate with one or some sort of belief system you are considered strange. Well in my circles 🤷🏾♀️. Belief is armour; life is hard and we grab onto it cause we think deeply about life. We get scared about the vastness of time, space and the smallness of our existence. This causes a crisis as we stare into the abyss. So, we look to those who came before us for meaning. Its a desire for eternity that fills all of us. I say this as person who has moved away from my own religious upbringing. I can't be mad; people use different tools to cope. Every tool can be used as a weapon 😊 does not mean the tool is bad. Some people use their intelligence in the same way as armour.
Just the thumbnail makes this video predictable as hell. I don’t think I am smarter than religious people. I just think they choose to pick easy explanations to complex things out of pure convenience. If you are an atheist - you think about a lot of things and subjects and you acknowledge the fact that we don’t know WHY (unless science already explained it). If you are a believer - you just grab a simple concepts from some old book and choose to believe it despite lack of proof. It’s lazy but I don’t really mind it… Unless religion starts to do what it is designed for: trying to force me (an atheist) into certain type of beliefs and rules. As long as everyone has personal freedom it’s fine, but when religion enters politics - we become enemies.
There is something uniquely dumb about American Evangelicalism, which is the dominant face of religion in the US and has cultural hegemony in many parts. That's what people are reacting to. It's not even "religion" in the traditional sense so much as it's just a confidence game that has alot of social respectability. At alot of these churches, they don't even do anything uniquely religious, once you exclude their privatized sense of "belief" and tribal group loyalty they encourage.
I think the question should be “Is religion stupid” not “religious people”. Any person can be less knowledgeable than any other, however is belief in a higher power a stupid thing? I argue that belief in God and religion is intelligent. We can not even comprehend ourselves, let alone the World around us, and people who admit this are humble. Arrogant people in their stupidity get frustrated with not being able to know everything so their solution is to opt for disbelief and a life that prioritizes their desires. That’s actual stupidity.
"There are parts of yourself and your mind that can be unlocked the more you become religious or the more you dive into certain aspects of your spirituality". LOVED this video! Also, you look amazzzzing mashaAllah--where is your hijab from? I want this color! :)
As a scientist who is visibly Muslim, I'm often surrounded by people who are either uninterested in religion or have abandoned their religious upbringing. And while I also have religious trauma and can empathize with the pain it inflicts on people, I find it so bizarre how much religion is maligned and berated in these spaces. Which is why I feel my presence as a Muslim woman and my refusal to "tone it down" is important--yes, you can be religious and do literal brain science!
you probably just have the same religion of your parents, if you were born in ancient nordic countries you'd believe in Thor, religion is a matter of child indoctrination, nothing more, and cognitive bias exist even among scientists because it's really hard to remove something that has been strongly reinforced since childhood
@IngeniousMaultasche Okay? Unless you are interested in these aspects of Islam in some way, I don't see why you're responding to me. My comment isn't about the legitimacy of my faith but about the legitimacy of my personhood.
@@Zaureeexcept that your post sounds more like legitimacy of religion and not your personhood.
2ndly these days religious people use scientific terms to make shit up to justify their beliefs... So i can understand the apprehension. Blame the internet.
Lastly religion is no longer limited to beliefs, religious people think its all facts.
Religion also has a history of standing in the way of science.
And lastly, its plausible to distrust someone to be a good scientist when you know they live life guided by things that don't have imperial evidence.
So you tell me if its all that unreasonable. Im not saying its right or wrong, just that its not unreasonable.
I mean if I was your colleague, I would be ok with your person hood because I come from a place where both coexist in harmony for the most part. But yes, when there is a conflict, its always because of some dumb religious people
@IngeniousMaultasche What do you believe in ????
Well if your entire personhood is about your Muslim identity and your faith then i suppose you should put more effort into the legitimacy of that faith. Especially considering how aggressive and weird your religion is including the god of your religion who wants people to burn in hell for eternity just for not believing in him. There is so many issues with your religion it is hard to even count how many issues your religion has both scientifically, morally, and even in terms of historical accuracy. I don't doubt your ability to do brain science. I just doubt your ability to meaningfully engage with whether or not your religion is actually legitimate. And in that regard, i do consider that stupid. One could be snart at making music but really bad at math. I don't think being a smart scientist makes you smart enough to tell us your faith is legitimate. I think you're allowed to exist as a Muslim woman. But don't say why is religion maligned and berated, they're allowed to berate and express their opinions towards religion just as you are allowed to exist as a Muslim woman
I used to be really religious, now I’m not. From my experience what I figured is that stupid people exist in EVERY community. They are not exclusive to religious communities. My criticism of religious communities is often they muzzle their followers. I rarely got any straight answers of my questions from a religious leader. They sort of encourage you to be a blind follower. That favours both stupid and dishonest people to have the badge of being the most pious and devoted. As long as they won’t allow questions and constructive moderation, they would have to deal with the stupid and fraud problem.
This captures the essence of what I was gonna say perfectly.
But I'm still religious tho
Pretty much. I believe that anyone that forsakes critical thinking over blindly following dogma, is either not very bright or is willingly decieving him or herself.
As an Atheist, I don't think that I'm smarter than any given religious person. I do think being committed to a specific religious ideology can steer people away from reaching certain logical conclusions. However, I can acknowledge the good religion brings to people in the way it grounds them, provides community, and gives people hope. I just wish people didn't fight over it, force others into it, or threaten them for leaving❤
I agree. And i would to add that religious institutions and identities dont have a monopoly over social coersion. Toeing the line happens in so many other social scenarios (military, political parties, group identities, schools of thought, etc) with just as strong social repercussions
As an atheist, I DO.
I have my own imaginary friends, who make me happy. Believing in one of my friends, means I will never die, ain’t I lucky. I did find it very hard to imagine dying & my life having no real meaning, scary.
short answer yes
wrong answer
@@dontspikemydrink9382 well if you believe fairytales when you're over 20 then someting is wrong
@@dontspikemydrink9382 you do you fam 🤷🏻♂️
@@zshsvsbhshsdo you sit all day in r/atheism with your semen stained carpet making ad hominems please go outside just please
I'm a Christian, and I am so happy that you're talking about this. Keep up the great work, Tazzy!
James 2:18
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
James 2:14
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
@@theharshtruthoutthere Can I ask why you shared these verses? I'm not sure how they relate to my initial post.
Especially in the west, a lot of people who grew up with Christianity project their religious trauma onto other religions and believe that structures that exist in Christianity also exist in other religions even though that is not necessarily true.
I don’t think religious people are stupid. In fact most religious people I’ve met are knowledgeable about a lot of things HOWEVER being a bisexual man I’ve had countless experiences where religious people have been extremely abusive. So, now, every time I meet a person that is deeply religious I’m a little wary because, even though I still give them my trust, there’s a part of me that wonders: are you one of the lovely ones that would volunteer with me or one of the fundamentalists that wants to “save me from sin” by harassing me with insults for three weeks.
Sadly is usually the latter, but thankfully there’s kind people like you or my landlord that are kind and friendly and restore my faith in religious people.
I met several people who were intensely religious. In their minds, Halloween is a time when magic and Satan mix. I also encountered a few calm, reasonable believers. I've discovered that they aren't all bad. These People have views that are not the same as mine. Simply be cautious with them and grow to trust them. Tazzy Phe is intelligent enough to understand how people believe, and I respect that.
When you say abuse thata completely subjective. Someone can be the nicest and Ive seen the LGTV lose their minds completely
It's the self righteousness that comes from believing you are God's chosen. And in my case the pressure of feeling that if you don't force the "lost" to convert. God will be so disappointed in you because you are a bad person who wants people to go to hell 😢 I regret how disrespectful I have been in the past. Sorry you have to deal with that.
@@ryojs4286 They are being defensive because they have been though some sh🤬t. Especially when they grown up religious. It's hard to trust people when you have been burnt. And burnt in the name of love and peace too. When you feel threatened even a smile feels dangerous.
@@angel-ke9vs Weve all been thro "some sh8t" doesnt excuse abuse towards Muslims when we show kindess or tell you its haram. It IS HARAM and it will hurt you like alcohol will and society. Those are the facts
They’re not stupid, they’re just delusional liars
Bye!
I’m sooo glad you made this video!! It’s super relevant to me and my experiences. I was born to a Muslim family that wasn’t suuuper duper practicing, but I still learned the 5 pillars of Islam, fasted, etc. I started questioning Islam when I was 15, thinking “I’m only Muslim because my parents are. If I were born to a Christian family then I’d be Christian.” When I tried to find answers about the meaning of life, doubts in faith, etc., I was met with backlash from other Muslims. I eventually called myself an Atheist and became this shell of a person. I was intensely cynical and felt hopeless about the fate of the world. I would even wish that I could be “dumb enough” to believe in religion because I hated how hopeless everything felt without having any meaning to life. Eventually I started doing research into Islam and slowly made my way back to being a Muslim, by my own choice this time, Alhamdulillah. I still have doubts and lapses in faith to this day and it’s not all ponies and rainbows lol. But it honestly only makes sense that people are here for a reason. Islam truly has so much wisdom in it, I genuinely believe it’s the truth. And Atheists might read this and think I only chose Islam for my mental health/for my own comfort but that’s far from the truth🤣My life in a way would be so much easier if I wasn’t Muslim, but I wouldn’t have it any other way. I chose Islam because I know it’s the truth. Alhamdulillah for everything.
Alhamdulillah sister, I was born and raised Christian, stopped my faith around 16 but now I'm studying Islam but have gained respect for Christianity in some aspects when it's not the Catholic bubbles I lived in.
As an Ex-Muslim Atheist, I'm happy that you found ultimately found some peace in your life! Honestly, as long as you feel happy, fulfilled, not harm others or promote bigotry, just live your life as you see fit! :)
I'm an atheist, if that works for you, it's ok as long as you don't push it to others
Genuine question: The Quran talks about sending people who don’t believe to hell, especially polytheists or atheists.. so what do you believe about that? Or the fact that men have have 4 wives and marry outside religion (intended for the spread of Islam), but women can’t marry outside of Islam or multiple partners. Or the part about gay people? And the parts that explicitly talk about what will happen to non-believers?
I’m an ex Muslim. I’m gay, and that was just the starting block that really opened my eyes to the other things in the Quran, as well as how people and countries who follow their interpretations of the Quran behave like.
@@eidiazcasthat’s the thing though, in Islamic countries of sharia law it is pushed, you legally can’t convert out of Islam. You can be a Christian foreigner, and even in some levant countries as well as Egypt there are millions of Christians, yet you cant actually convert away publicly or on your ID if it is shown (with the exception of ironically the Arab country with the highest Christian population, you can convert religions, however only to Muslim or Christian, not any others). So I feel like the idea of “pushing” religions is honestly out of the question because it’s continuing to happen
SUUPPERR glad that you made this video. My take on why non-religious people think religious people are stupid is because they think believers of any faith, blindly follow something therefore don't have the ability to think critically or, don't know to. But as a Muslim, I know that's not true. In fact, my faith encourages me to constantly evaluate my actions and decisions, weighing the pros and cons of different choices. For example, if I have a job opportunity that goes against my personal and religious beliefs, I have to think carefully about what I should do. Figuring out what's best for me and my life constantly requires critical inquiry.
Bro.... You are a minority in religious circles and you know that
That’s not true at all Muslims make up 2 billion people and is the most popular religion after Christianity (approx 2.4 billion so not very far behind).
@@akshayde Lol. fr
@@akshayde But thats what being Muslim means.
@@akshayde Not really my guy. Most religious individuals are aware of the concept of critical inquiry, although some may not have had a formal education to understand it under academic standards. However, they still possess the ability to think critically, even if they are not aware of it.
People are silly. The vast majority of "non-believing" people I've met (whether the obnoxious "religious people are stupid!" types, or simply ones minding their own business) are incredibly underdeveloped in their understanding of God, religion, or theology in general.
I've yet to meet any of these types that have devoted serious study to the idea of God (let alone religion). They seem to kinda get taken up by their social circle's general hedonism(s), reject religion because of some childhood event/experience or simply spend excessive time consuming media to actually approach the subject objectively and critically. It kinda goes back to the point, no one really believes in "nothing". You either believe in God, or you take other things as a deity (be it other people/the opposite sex, consumption patterns/vices, wealth etc etc.). That's not even touching on the general agnosticism of the vast majority of self-declared atheists. The social role of religion is an entirely different discussion.
Shrug? I’m an atheist who’s studied all forms of abrahamic theology pretty intensely, and while I highly respect those religions, none have really managed to convince me in the existence of God. I’ve read the Bible and the Quran, lit menorahs and gone to catholic masses, even studied abrahamic mysticism. I love religion, I just don’t believe in it, and I don’t think that lack of belief makes me any more intelligent and vice versa
The reason why the majority of non-believers have such an underdeveloped idea of god is because theists like you have underdeveloped ideas of god that atheists have to do so little to counter. Your criticisms are so banal and parrot the same nonsense about atheists "making a diety of their own" since no one can "believe in nothing". No one needs a degree in theology or a deeper understanding of god to know that theists fail miserably to prove the existence of god. Your name finally rings a bell, you're the guy that got destroyed by vaush.
This is relatable, I'm not particularly religious but have a respect for religion due to my upbringing that isn't shared in secular spaces. I find it very frustrating. I've also seen the same religion influence the same people very differently in different parts of their lives. There is so much nuance that is lost when people talk about "religion". Thanks for making this. And existing on the internet. 🙂
True secularism , should be where you leave your personal opinions at home and treat everyone equal regardless of what they believe in shared spaces. This is what I follow. What you worship is not my business and what I do should not be yours either.
@@sashamellon822 The most easiest and clearest answer why all religions are false is: ALL RELIGIOUS SOULS LIVE IN BABYLON.
CHRIST SAYS:
Revelation 18:4
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Muslims live in the babylon, being partakers of her sins.
Hindus live in the babylon, being partakers of her sins.
new agers live in the babylon, being partakers of her sins.
Atheists live in the babylon, being partakers of her sins.
Ignorats live in the babylon, being partakers of her sins.
Satanists live in the babylon, being partakers of her sins.
Catholics live in the babylon, being partakers of her sins.
Christians = souls who are bible believers and obeyers, live being out from the Babylon and expose her wicked deeds.
Religious people are not less intelligent, they just practice a wild amount of cognitive dissonance (speaking as formerly religious person).
I completely disagree. Your experience as a religious person is valid ofc, but doesn't reflect all religious people. It's harmful to assume that everyone who practices a religion has a wild amount of cognitive dissonance. I've seen both religious and non-religious people practice wild amounts of cognitive dissonance. I think cognitive dissonance is especially elevated in the presence of moral superiority, which both religious and non-religious people experience, depending on the environment they are in, much like the video mentions in the LA example.
i believe in god, but i feel religious people start thinking that they are god when they judge people for not living a similar life to theirs. Like they make me so uncomfortable. They always come off a bit condescending and rude... like they can't digest that others do not want to live a similar life to theirs. Some of us don't believe in heaven/hell and that is okay
I think the growing number of atheists has a lot to do with the rise of extremism and grifting (American fundamental mega-churches!). Karen Armstrong has written about this phenomenon also; she posited that WWII, especially the the Holocaust, is the likely reason so many Europeans have turned away from religion all together. I’m a Muslim btw, and love your channel 💚
@@nikkideanmusic That how I view people continuing to believe in capitalism and that voting for the duopoly has meaning.
heavily agree with you on that last point, Allah commands us to think and ponder, yet some of us are incapable of even that. look at Ibrahim (AS) he was searching for His Lord, and he had the intellectual capability to argue and win against those who took idols and objects as their diety, and the ability to actually search and distinguish.. i definitely do not think in any way that we are that much smarter than those who came before us.
Not watched the whole video yet, but I love this comment
short answer "YES"
NO!
@@BeansPredi-ch6xk yes
Simply put: knowledge, experimentation, and intellectualism (philosophy, science, mathematics, etc.) migrated from religious spheres to secular spheres (academia, governmental institutions, business)
Religion suffered brain drain due to the Age of Enlightenment and Reason, which resulted in the secularization of the modern world.
Now religion must justify its existence through faith alone, which strips it of its validity and power - for better or worse.
Faith based institutions are no longer centers for societal progress…because they are burdened with the task of justifying why they should even exist. And now they only exist to keep alive the philosophical exercise of justifying theism, and now they can only serve to provide moralism, mysticism, and meaning in life.
Those of us who believe would do well to incorporate knowledge, science, and reason BACK into the religious spheres if we are to shed the label of stupidity…
Yes, in a nutshell. Next question
no, 😂😂
No and no.
Yes. Next video.
For me the problem is hypocrisy. My muslim friends drink, smoke, hookup, go to the strip club, but they draw the line at eating pork or gay people. That's just dumb, pick a side
the pork thing is because a lot of people who didn't grow up eating a certain kind of meat will find it disgusting.
I loved this video!
•I do agree that religion brings about discipline. It gives life a structure, a meaning, a direction. And hence we refer to it as a path. Those who are lost in life find a purpose, a reason through it.
•I also understand that people are shifting out of religious labels, mostly because they have had traumatic incidents associated with it. They've experienced cult, religious practices used as punishment and have their artistic and/or emotional flow interrupted through it.
•I also agree that meditation is helpful in increasing your focus and attention span. This is probably why people of olden times produced art and tools that have survived decades and centuries.
That being said, a lot of religious practices are symbolic. A lower intelligence person finds structure through it and a higher intelligence person finds tools to adapt, change and strengthen themselves.
In times of lockdowns, religion and spirituality has given people the will to live. Structure insures growth. But just like every other thing in life, too much of structure, or a hectic structure can suffocate individuality - leading to the desire to break free.
I also loved it when you said "We move from one bubble to another." It is such a brilliant quote!
I love this comment it is like a brief essay haha encapsulating each relevant area
Plus I wanted to ask do you happen to be from Kerala 😭
@@helmsmanpacker3456 No
One of your best videos! Brave of you as well (sad to think that one needs bravery to voice such opinions today). Would super enjoy further explorations around this topic should you wish :)
She’s for sure on a roll. Real brave 🙂
Once again, such a thoughtful post. I'm non-religous myself and I suspect that the negative feelings towards people of faith comes from the (seeming) fact that it's the most extreme, fundamentalist, evangelical branches of the various faiths that are the loudest and most sensational, grabbing all the attention and thus equating being religious with their own personal brand of extreme faith. In other words, it's the extremists that give their religion a bad rep.
Agreed!
Yeps! Theists or atheists who are Fundamentalists are some of the worst people I have met. And it's even more annoying when they are also hypocrites who don't practice what they preach, but rather focus on being self-righteous towards others.
I think "delusional" is more of an appropriate word to describe religious people. You can be a rocket scientist and still be tempted to believe in religion.
Off the bat I don’t think religious people are stupid, but like you and others have said before when it gets into “group think” things can get tricky because people aren’t thinking for themselves.
I think even being “religious” is nuanced. There are those that practice religions but opt out of organized religion (like churches). So is it then a spectrum or are those people just “spiritual”?
I have questions 😂
group think works the other way around too. Converts are often harshly ostracised by their community, friends, family, and most of the time the reasons are purely ignorance and the immediate shock of someone close to you "rejecting" what you see is the norm
@@jiminici3351 We are not in disagreement. My use of “group think” may not have been clear enough in my comment. My meaning is that any situation in which one blindly agrees with the beliefs or thoughts of a group without question is a problem.
I always hated the reductive statement that religion comforts because "it gives an answer". Maybe that's true for some people, but my own religious experience has been full of uncertainty and questions. It's why "faith" is a necessary part of not just religion, but life and making choices. It's a lot more complicated living with faith in God than people think. Also, on a tangent, the idea that you're just going to die and everything is an accident seems like just as much as of a cop-out and form of solace. There's no uncertainty in such conception.
This!!
I agree, and its a very generalising statement. For example, a lot of people frame why religious people observe their religion is because they want to go to heaven and avoid hell-- neither concept exist in my religion, we are not particularly concerned with the afterlife. Our answer is that we don't know. So how does that fit into the idea that religion gives us an answer to these difficult topics?
No matter how much I sit and question and get bothered in my religion I can’t seem to shake away the feeling of needing to seek out a faith or connection to the creator of this planet. Sometimes I feel so conflicted with the small and what might seem like silly detailed rituals but to completely live life as an atheist doesn’t sit right with me. Deep down I can’t convince myself that all of this just exists randomly for no reason. That factor alone is what always brings me back.
I would call some of them "lazy thinkers" instead of calling stupid. Because honestly, it's easier to buy instant food than it is to plant seeds, grow, harvest, and finally eat. It feels good to be in a place where you have a full tummy and feel safe with people like you. So we humans choose comfort and call it a religion (sometimes)
On the other hand, I find some religious people "manipulative genius" Because they have the insidiousness to read their religion, they find a way according to their own interests and wishes, no matter what. They have right to steal your foods or ruin your field. And those people don't choose religion actually they choose to be God...
And me as a religious person, I hope I am not one of them, in this metaphor. Maybe I am still exploring, foraging or hunting in the wild to survive, not civilized yet😅
I don't think religious people are stupid, but those in religion who are scholarly are just that, scholars. I don't think there are enough religious people who think critically about their religion (and sometimes by extension think critically about things beyond religion), but I think that has less to do with the religion itself and more with culture, upbringing, and the fact that the average person doesn't have the time/resources to think about these things. It also feels like the more question and qualms one has, the more push back is received, so "blind faith" is the more acceptable outcome. I also find that most people who are "religious" aren't actually _that_ religious. Who has the time?
I do attribute the word "religion" to organized practice, and not to personal spiritual beliefs. That I call "spirituality" and it's more of the approach I take. I've gone Christian > Wicca > Shinto > exploring Islam and no matter what religions or spiritualities I've explored I've always met people who take the 'that's the way it is, ask no questions or ask a scholar' or 'I don't really care and you shouldn't either' approach and neither work with me. I want discussion without being dogmatic. People long for community but I find fellowshipping hard because of that group think that you mention. But at the end of the day I've realized that "fellowship" could legit just be one other person who's willing to talk with me and when it comes down to it my spirituality is mine and mine alone.
@ImJustJaime if you’re exploring Islam rn I think you might enjoy Bayyinah Institute on RUclips. the content might be appealing to you because the teacher Nouman Al Khan often has a critical lens of viewing the world + is back by religious thinking. It’s a good mix! And I think it’ll place more light on why scholar don’t go beyond just their scholarship.
Very interesting to see a nice, calmly discussed opinion from a religious person on the decline of religiosity and society's acceptance of religious people. I am an atheist, but I am very happy that people find something in religion for themselves and I don't think that it makes anybody 'stupid' or 'less intelligent' to be religious at all. I do however think that religious belief being pushed as social policy to the detriment of other non-religious or differently religious people is a terrible thing. I think a lot of the 'anti-religion' discourse is also from formerly religious people who have suffered religious trauma, or from people who are mostly targeting the political hate movements that dress themselves up as religion that we unfortunately have to deal with in the world (evangelical christian extremism, islamic fundamentalism, hindu extremism, etc.). I don't think it's unfair to criticize those harmful things but we should absolutely not show any prejudice or criticism towards people living their best life with religion being a part of that. I think if religion provides structure and meaning to your life and doesn't impede your ability to think rationally, examine evidence, or accept other opinions then that's great.
I don't think the question "Are religious people idiots?" is the question we should be answering. This statement barely scrapes the surface to the wider topic at hand and, therefore, is not an opinion shared by most people on the other side (non-religious people).
However, this statement is constantly uttered by those that have not fully fleshed out their argument because if they had then they would have eventually/hopefully come to the conclusion that it is not about smarts but about if the individual gives the same amount of deep thought to their beliefs as they do with their studies, If the individual is able to look at their beliefs from all angles so that they are able to disprove/prove them, If the individual is able to be objective when it comes to analysing their beliefs, etc.
Most religious people are not able to do this, therefore, I think that the question we should be answering is "Do religious people lack critical thinking...when it comes to their beliefs?"
But of course, this is just my opinion and people can believe and practice whatever they want as long as it does not harm others.
I never left Islam per se, but after the Pulse Nightclub shooting occurred my local mosque talked about it without actually disavowing homophobia the shooter had and never talked about how to intelligently combat homophobia in the Muslim community - it opened my eyes and made me realize the Muslim community as a whole is behind the times. I definitely have met religious individuals who are hella smart (heck half my friends are brilliant & are observant Muslims to some degree) but I feel that Islam, and really all religions, are still stuck in orthodoxy, sexism, and hetero-patriarchy and aren’t critically challenging these status quos.
Edit: Apparently over 100+ Muslim scholars, PhD's, and Islamic organizations in North America just recently signed a statement re-affirming their stance on the separation of Islam & the LGBT community, and it just further proved my point. Even the most educated, literate, and forward thinking Muslims still can't reconcile religion and modern issues. My heart grieves for the pain this is going to cause to so many, both within the Muslim community & in the LGBT community - especially for those who identify with both.
Like you said, it’s so nuanced. I think it’s true that some people are incapable of thinking for themselves and it prevents them from questioning and comprehending their religion on a deep level. Some people are broken and religion helps them heal. Also, we all interpret religious philosophy in different ways. We could listen to the same imam talk for an hour and have a different experience. Ones relationship with God is very personal and we should acknowledge that next time we judge anyone based on their spirituality.
I took Shahada 3 years ago. I haven’t been practicing because of the transphobia and homophobia in the community. I don’t, however, believe all Muslims are unintelligent homophobic idiots. I don’t think homophobia and transphobia aligns with Islam but it’s up to every individual believer how they want to interpret that and research that for themselves.
its not the "phobia" its the fact that its forbidden. it has nothing to do with what we think. imagine if we all followed our wishes instead of following Allah's commandments, we would be led astray. of course, we treat them as humans though.
@@hasanity5220 It’s forbidden but homosexuals don’t need to be executed.
@@gabriellemurphy6330 Of course they don't, it's just that we certainly do not support what they do. Not supporting people for what they do and ostracizing them are two whole different things. And Islam preaches how important it is to respect other human beings, doesn't matter if their values don't allign with yours. I reccomend you watch the lecture of Dr. Ammar Nakhshwani on homosexuality and the same, hopefully that'll make you understand what's islam take is on this whole situation.
If all I knew about islam was that it believes in executing gay people (or those who engage in sexual relations with members of the same sex, if you want to be pedantic), then that would be enough for me to say I fundamentally disagree with its ethos. It’s morally reprehensible. I’m sorry. I have no issues with muslims at all. Not in the slightest.
@@sayyednaqvi7973
homophobia
noun
ho· mo· pho· bia ˌhō-mə-ˈfō-bē-ə
: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or gay people
transphobia
noun
trans· pho· bia ˌtran(t)s-ˈfō-bē-ə
ˌtranz-
: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against transgender people
I wasn’t going to say anything else, but these comments have been weighing heavily on my mind. You don’t see the red flag here; your religion states that God forbids the gay people he created. I am bisexual. My brother is trans. My whole family is autistic. Don’t you see that we can’t be Muslim? That is a huge red flag. We can’t just pretend we aren’t queer. God made us a certain way. Being told to ignore our identities for God proves your ignorance. The more I learn about neurodivergence, the more I realize religion was created by man. God would never make participating in religion this impossible for us. It’s man that makes it impossible for us. Man’s ignorance created religion, not God. I don’t believe for a second that God wants me to act heterosexual. I don’t believe God wants my brother to suffer in a body he doesn’t feel safe or comfortable in.
I took shahada. I wore hijab for almost a year. I learned how to pray. I was learning Arabic. I fasted for Ramadan. I listened to so many talks and lectures. I followed hundreds of Muslims on social media. But the one thing I couldn’t get past was the idea that homosexuals can’t be Muslim. I learned that being transgender and/or gay is punishable by death in many Muslim nations. Huge. Red. Flag. When my brother came out as trans, I couldn’t be in denial and ignore this any longer.
I got sick and tired of looking for excuses for it. I got sick and tired of looking for excuses for the misogyny, too. I’m sorry, but religious texts are written for men by men. These are the reasons people think you’re unintelligent.
www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/06/14/countries-where-being-gay-is-legally-punishable-by-death/39574685/
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/homophobia
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transphobia
Stupid people are just stupid. Infact the more I studied quantum physics the stronger my faith became. My sister had the same experience studying mathematics. At some point you reach a point of scientific knowledge where 0=1 and you realize that believing in science requires the same effort as believing in faith and that the possibilities in this world are endless.
where did you find 1=0?
I felt the same when I realized that the possibility of going backwards in time wasn't 0. Highly improbable? Absolutely. But not zero, and all I can think of it what physics on a macro level would look like if we existed in that highly improbable universe.
I also think that since Christianity is the "norm" in the US (so much so that atheists and other non-religious people celebrate Christian holidays like Christmas, Easter, etc), these now ex-Christians struggle to separate other religions from Christianity as the/their norm when they're making these statements. They seem to boil Judaism down to pre-Christianity, and Islam to post-Christianity, which means that when they even bother to think about other religions and what those people's experiences may be, they continue to center Christianity which is incredibly frustrating for those of us in either of those religions, or outside of that religious experience.
There's a huge emphasis on learning and being well-read/educated in Judaism that extends past religious texts, in addition to asking questions and questioning g-d, which makes it extra frustrating for me as a Jewish woman to constantly be lumped in with Christians who blindly accept the faith they were brought up in (which I believe is the true target of the "innocent/dumb religious person" commentary many ex-Christians make).
My comment is all over the place, but know that I agree with what you're saying here wholeheartedly!
Christianity is a diverse religious group. To believe that EVERY Christian globally and since the first century are like the modern hyper-emotive American Evangelical/Pentacostal trope we see here is ahistorical and deeply misguided.
I agree that other (non-Christian) religions should be judged independently on their own merit, but this is more of an American behavioral trend where Americans talk about everything in relation to themselves, as though America existed first and then the rest of the world.
@@lisaburke7506 Hence why I said "I also think that since Christianity is the "norm" in the US..." at the very beginning of my comment. I'm not talking about Christianity globally as that is not my experience with Christianity. My experience with Christians is American-centric.
I’m not very religious person either but islam has many values that are very great can be adopted in our daily life . But definitely its not true that religious people are stupid
Religious people still carry values morals and respect and try there level best not to be duped into materialism or capitalism
Self control and awareness of a greater purpose and power
I believe anyway
A person addicted to worldly gain and pleasure will find it difficult to understand spiritual livelihood
I have too many disorganized thoughts about this topic right now so I'll wait to create coherent sentences BUT I needed to let you know how much I love this video and your content in the past year (or two?). So grateful for all that you do Masha'Allah.
Ill save you the 11 minutes of your life. YES
Because the magic man in the sky right? 🤣🤣🤣
You have lack of understanding in theology and philosophy no this is not what religious people believe they believe in a omnipotent god you are straw manning and have a ad homomiean in your arugment
My brother convertet to islam and stopped drinking so as long as he is using it to support good values I dont care. We were raised orthodox but not much value was put in religion. I just dont support any religion who goes against people, any people.
Atheist here. I grew up Christian Orthodox in Eastern Europe, in a very VERY religious country. Lost my faith ~15 years ago, and in the first few years, seeing what’s going on in my country, I did believe that most religious people are stupid. But the thing is, many religious institutions& leaders exploit the gullibility of ignorant people. Mind you, people are not ignorant cuz they choose to, but because socio-economic and political situation keeps them like that. They have so much to worry about, and work to do, that their only comfort is in God. That’s about the only thing that brings them joy.
Now I’ve also met educated people who chose God, they are some of the smartest and kindest people I know.
Religious and stupid folks are a tiny minority but unfortunately they are the ones we’re usually shown on tv and social media, and they are usually victims of their environment.
Same as every stereotype.
We need to start looking past the appearances and stop judging so easily.
Yet here they all in the comments, trashtalking the athiests
Religious and stupid people are a tiny minority??
1) The overwhelming majority of the world is religious in some way. Roughly 85% of the globe claims to have some kind of super natural beliefs.
2) No matter how you want to measure intelligence, HALF of all people will be "below average".
How do you get a "tiny minority" from a ven diagram of 2 groups that encompasses somewhere near 40 to 45% of humanity?
When nearly half the globe is below average and is walking around talking about ghosts, or ancestors spirits, or invisible super heros in the sky that they can cast a magic spell to and thar super hero friend will alter or control reality on their behalf...I have trouble thinking of that as a "tiny minority".
They are one of the largest blocks of people I can think of, in fact.
Uhhh what?
@@wyleecoyotee4252You are doing the trashtalking.
If anyone thinks they can generalize 4,000+ recognized religions in sweeping statements with no nuance then I would say that's truly the mark of either a serious ego problem, lack of understanding, or both
Iq is Lower bro....some are believing that earth is flat and some believe that sun was eat nby god.
It’s frustrating that most people aren’t aware of the contemplative practices of these religions/spiritual traditions. Alan Wallace & Rupert Sheldrake explain how these contemplative practices (which is basically first-person methodology for studying consciousness; aka phenomenology) not only have practical benefits for everyone but also help one to actually have an experience with a nonphysical consciousness (divinity it you will).
Neuroscientist Andrew Newberg has written extensively about & provided evidence for how these practices have positive impacts to one’s brain & physical well-being.
Western culture is dominated by physicalism which is a philosophical worldview, not a scientific fact. There’s more to this topic than all I just said but I wish the average person was more aware of this.
Hopefully the Essentia Foundation gains more recognition as the personnel who’re apart of that organization are trying to help spread the knowledge of this topic & are also attacking physicalism too.
I've got so much to say on this!! I used to be super atheist anti religion and thought all religious people were idiots. I started to change around age 17/18 when I realized lots of extremely intelligent people I respected were religious (to be clear, tons of non religious folks are as well its not cut and dry), so my beliefs did not make sense anymore. Growing up in the West where all I was exposed to was extreme Christianity made me think all religion was some kind of form of Christianity, which is incorrect and offensive to all the different religions and cultures put there. What's crazy is that I don't come from a Christian heritage, but my family chose to raise me secular and ignorant of our culture which seriously impacted me. More recently I have been engaging with my family's old religious/cultural customs and I have had to re learn so much because my entire conceptualisation of religion came from such a Western Christian perspective. Like the concept of an ethno-religion (which I come from) does not make sense to a lot of Christians or Western atheists because religion is seen as something that should be entirely removed from ethnicity or culture when it often is not. My biggest gripe these days is getting non religious people who come from Western/Christian worldviews to understand how much their understanding of religion comes from Christianity even if they themselves aren't Christian. Like recently a non religious person argued with me that I can't celebrate a certain holiday from my heritage unless I am a full believer yet they say that Christmas, Easter, etc are all 100% secular and don't count when its them who do the same. Anyways rant over, thanks for the video.
And don't even get me started on celebrities appropriating Kabbalah and completely misinterpreting it-- similar to randomly using Buddhist symbols and beliefs etc or cherrypicking from other religions like Hinduism that they deem "exotic" while acting as if they are above the people who actually practice those religions. It's interesting to me that having a room full of crystals, reading star signs, and having tarot cards read is seen as cool by young folks but if these were seriously practiced by a devout person it would be ridiculed.
Well said! I agree, a lot of folks who have limited exposure to religion have typically only been exposed to some form of Christianity. They usually try to project that one understanding of “religiosity” onto other religions.
I think this prevents people from fully comprehending the expansive diversity of religions around the world.
Like, a religion might not just be about “believing where you go after death”. Or “believing what’s good or bad”.
Some religions don’t focus on afterlife or morality as much. Some religions focus on lifestyle and daily living instead, which ties into the cultural and ethnic aspects you mention.
hello! i respectfully want to point out that easter actually has pretty much pagan roots in it (u can search up on the topic of ostara as an example, there are more!). have a good day
@@anastasima Yes to an extent, but please understand that 1. Easter as it is practice in the West is Christian currently and saying it is pagan to force non Christians into accepting it is gross, and 2, paganism is not secular. Paganism goes directly against my religion/culture's beliefs and are not compatible. Neo pagans in my experience are some of the most guilty of thinking their practices are secular and appropriate so much stuff from other cultures.
The tooth fairy/ Santa analogy was my Atheist motto from like age 8 to 21. I do try to keep a more open mind on life in general these days, and when it boils down to it: There are stupid atheists. There are stupid religious people. You do you, me do me. But if you start infringing on humans rights or religious freedom, we are going to have a problem.
Absolutely.
I agree with you: religion doesn't seem to be linked to "how smart" someone is. According to IQ and standardized tests, I am highly intelligent. But I was raised Pentecostal and spent the first 30 years of my life deeply entrenched in Pentecostalism/Evangelicalism here in the US. Now, though, I am atheist. Reality just did not work the way the "church" told me it would, and I had to put all of that aside to start facing reality as it really is. That led me to questioning a lot of other stuff I had been taught, and I realized it just wasn't for me.
I do think, though, religion gives a lot of people ("intelligent" or not) easy answers to questions that can be uncomfortable for them to face, and that's why so many people hang onto it without having to be manipulated the way cults manipulate people. I feel more authentic not hanging onto religion, but I respect that for many people, that is how they get through life's challenges with their sanity intact. (For the record, I felt like I was more susceptible to being drawn into a cult when I was devoutly religious than I am now as an atheist who appeals to reason, not faith.)
Your opinions at the end make sense and I feel you are on the right track. Here are some additional points to ponder over:
- Why is it that some forms of ancient wisdom are still passed down to this day? Will the words of the smartest professors or the memes from the most charismatic influencers still be around in a generation or two? Seriously, becoming "irrelevant" is the norm, so there needs to be some truth to a message for it to be passed through time and across different environments and doubly so without any changes to the essence of the original message. Simultaneous denial of ancient wisdom and acceptance of new ideologies is a hypocritical stance to take.
- re lower IQ people in religion: Why hate on lower IQ people getting to have structure and a lifestyle that can include them? What happened to respecting organizations that are inclusive? Or is it just a sense of class superiority among the "high IQ"? Sure, smart people can have all sorts of new ideas and opinions about older ideas, but it doesn't mean they are right! Smart people think they are right because they are used to being right in a specific domain and will shun others from stepping into the nuances of their domain, but when they start professing expertise in other domains they seem to forget this. More hypocrisy! When it comes to subjective topics, basically anything not in the math and harder sciences, most "experts" are not "right" either as there are many widely conflicting viewpoints in their fields.
- Smart people are beyond cults? Uhh that's not true. Look into the rationalist movement and try to convince anyone they are not a cult.
- How does individualism play into all of this? If the individual's feelings are prioritized over the goodwill of the collective, then of course the collective ideology will erode. How long can this mindset last, especially when pretty much any society requires cooperation at the expense of individual freedoms? We can't get everything, that is collective alignment and also individual liberation, for free without swallowing the trade-offs between different approaches.
As an atheist myself, I think it’s complicated LOL. I think people dismiss or take for granted how the information and narratives we adopt are often the information that is made most accessible or convenient to us. In other words, we are not objective arbiters of truth, we are social sponges and parroters of information, information that is adopted within the confines of our social bubbles, be those our local or online communities we access.
I would argue belief and an irreligious identity are more informed through social access to information rather than having much to do with intelligence. Worth acknowledging is that “intelligence” has always been a challenge to define and is also informed through social factors. Who defines intelligence, after all?
I think the decline in religiosity has to do with access to information and connection through the Internet and social media. It allows for alternative communities to form and break away from traditional communities, with mixed consequences. Social media allows people to be exposed to and engage with others in ways traditional communities didn’t provide many opportunities for. It allows us to immediately access information far beyond the local community and the library. This allows us to both be more informed and misinformed in some rather extreme ways and foster identities that otherwise likely would’ve been unpopular had the conditions been different.
I'm a Catholic revert, who stopped practicing before college and then came back to the faith just before I graduated from college. I definitely agree with a lotttt of what you said, especially around reasons that question the popular take that people are less religious because of higher education. I know your perspective is that of a Muslim, but if one thinks back on the great intellectual minds before the modern era, almost all came from a religious background. The Catholic Church in particular produced so many of the people we can cite for mathematical/astronomical/philosophical understandings that still stand today. If religion only encourages mindless following of the morals laid out in that religion, why are so many of the people we study from history of a religious background?
I also would like to point out that there is an obvious (to me, anyways) difference in the intellectuality of followers of "orthodox" faiths (let's say religions like Catholicism, Islam, Eastern Orthodoxy, Judaism, etc) and followers of non-denominational-type faiths. These religions with strong pillars seem to more often than not encourage a lot of reflection on the faith and meditation on the pillars of that faith, whereas some other religions encourage that you blindly follow their directives without discernment, which definitely leads to that cult-like feel that you described.
once you see the cloth on the head you can expect there can't be any rational talk..
i have been watching you for years and i really enjoy your videos and love the way you think and how you speak 💞
It’s definitely hard to be a religious person nowadays, I think a lot of people associate religion with religious trauma/abuse/guilt/fear/shame/judgement. A lot of homophobia as well. And that’s usually because of the upbringing and religious community that people grow up in, which is a damn shame. There’s a lot of stuff I’ve had to unlearn as a Muslim woman, behaviours and opinions that I saw as a child and still see in my community. I think if those negative feelings weren’t associated with religion and religious people, maybe there wouldn’t be such a strong anti-religion wave happening right now. But that will take massive and systemic change on the parts of religious communities.
Thanks for shining a light on this Tazzy! Great topic and great take.
I agree! There’s a lot of work to do within our community to dissociate the trauma from religious people/ religion. Which is where the true intelligence lies in my opinion. Do we continue to hold on traditional values often misrepresenting Islam or do we go back to the text and see Islam for what it is. I think the answer of religious trauma and guilt lies within the Quran but the way we’re presenting that information atm doesn’t serve benefit.
If I told you that I believe in Santa Claus or a talking monkey from space because it makes me a better person or because my family raised me to believe that; you would also think I’m kinda stupid.
I work with people from all backgrounds, religion is never a subject ever bought up, it’s irrelevant , everything is geared towards life style.
I really think religious people can be disciplined, or are very acute to their surroundings. I remember watching the Olympics one year and seeing one figure skater, Yuna Kim, and being impressed by how in tune and comfortable she was in her surroundings. Then, I learned that she was a practicing Catholic. Now, I'm a Catholic, and I don't necessarily consider myself to be disciplined or acute to my surroundings, but I do feel that there is some sense of pattern and organization to my life as a whole. Also, love the video. Keep up the good work, Tazzy!
I think a lot about this. What has religion brought us throughout history that is being lost? Why do we as humans need it? We know that religious people live longer - I suspect that is due to 1) community 2) sense of purpose and meaning in life 3) lifecycle rituals and 4) washing our hands (at least for Jews and Muslims)
For me, connection to my ancestors through ritual is the most important part of religious practice. In Judaism, constantly questioning is part of the core of the religion, so an argument that "lack of questioning" just shows that people don't know enough.
A lot of religion is useful tools for approaching complex problems, some of which secular society has solved in modern times without using religious text/instructions like food safety and determining parentage of children. additionally, shame and group-think is often a big part of religion (and religious trauma) and is why a lot of folks leave the space
I was raised Muslim but I knew from an early age that following one organized religion wasn’t going to work for me, yet I have never considered the thought that religious people are stupid! I love learning about all religions and applying this knowledge to help me explore my own spirituality. Undoubtedly religion can provide guidance, like a framework. So I think it is a useful tool for the human mind and depending on the person, religion can be used for good or twisted to inflict harm but I don’t think it is inherently good or bad.
If people don’t want to think critically they will do that with or without religion tbh. “religious people are stupid” is a lazy blanket statement imo.
Tazy, I love your scarf! Where did you get it, and what color is it?
Short answer to save your time: YES.
As a former christian, my explanation as to why religion is decreasing is that it has simply become more acceptable to not be religious. I know it sounds obvious, but compare today to 70 years ago, this was not acceptable. Some people are religious while some are not, and so I think the number of people who are religious will continue decreasing but religion will not die out, it will stabilize and the only people left will be those that actually wanted to be religious. Forcing the entire population to be 100% christian (at least in my native country) never made sense to begin with
This is such an interesting video!
As someone who grew up religious but stepped away as soon as I left the range of that community, I have seen both sides of the spectrum. It's always felt like a high and mighty game to me from both ends? Being all in on something will bring out that black-and-white thinking, and most humans don't like being told that the way they live is wrong but if you believe a doctrine to the letter in your denomination (whether that be a traditional religion or atheism) then you will end up alienating and wagging the finger at those who don't follow what you believe.
At the end of the day though, religion and purposeful non-religion is such a personal thing. I understand that many want to spread the word and bring people into the fold, but the world is far more gray and nuanced than that vision hopes for. I would much prefer to just allow people to believe what they believe (as long as it's not actively harming people) and let them be.
I've come to the personal philosophy that if someone says that they are a follower of a doctrine, then they have to uphold and follow the rules they've chosen to guide their life - while others can happily follow their own free of judgment (once again, as long as it's not harming people).
i havent watched the video yet but no, religious people aren't idiots, however given the way that religious people have acted throughout history, non-religious people kinda have the right to believe that a lot of religious people are
I agree
The way liberals act is making people dislike them
I think a lot of religions, especially ones that are more orthodox or controlling, like Mormonism, Catholicism, and Jehovah’s Witnesses incorporate thought-stopping cliches and/or keep members very busy with multiple meetings or activities a week. This doesn’t make the members of high-control religions stupid, but they’re being taught not to think critically about their religion or the world around them in general. If you’re interested in the psychology of cults and high-control groups, I’d suggest looking into the BITE model (Behavior Information Thought and Emotion control) and the influence continuum.
Also, I completely agree that meditation and the community surrounding religious groups can be hugely beneficial for people. Religion can satisfy the need for mindfulness and community that we all need as human beings. Religion isn’t the only thing that can satisfy these needs, of course, but there are benefits to religious practice, and it’s not wrong to make it a part of your life. I only think it’s wrong to evangelize and push religion onto others (which is not at all what this video is doing, for the record).
Religious people are not stupid. People believe in or follow religious practices for many reasons. Without an in-depth conversation with someone it's not possible to understand their viewpoint on why they believe or not. Also does it matter if someone is smarter than another person? All humans are inherently valuable. I'm tired of people judging one another for all sorts of attributes outside of our control. Just let people live. If they're not using religion as a tool to harm people (or atheism as a tool for harm) then I honestly could not care less.
Having low intelligence (of one kind or another) isn't an inherently bad thing. When atheists call religious people stupid, they are making an implicit judgment that connects intelligence with an individual's worth. The spectre of intellectual disability looms large.
What gets lost in the "are religious people stupid?" debate is the discrimination people with intellectual disabilities face - in religious, secular, and atheist spaces. How can we make the spaces we occupy more accessible? How can we start healing from a long history of exclusion and stigma?
I remember when I was doing my CATs test in my primary school in the UK, they stopped me answering more questions on the paper on my test paper, some other kids were stopped to. So my IQ level was put at low. Later when I went to secondary school, I thought I was stupid. It was more racially mixed school, I became more religious, did CATs again, I got higher but never bother listening to the result as I thought I was stupid. Then later I studied, ended up doing Law LLB in Uni, did several IQ tests got about 120-140 results, so I am a descent IQ and religious, love praying 5x a day, tajjud ( night prayer) and dhikr (similar to meditation but remembering Allah swt alone in solitude) and wearing burka. I would not consider myself stupid....what narrowed minded people
And what does your religion say about apostasy? Or homosexuality?
The way I see it, there's nothing inherently better about religious people than non-religious, or vice versa. We all live in our own cultures, and regardless of what we may point at and say "cult" from the outside, there are others outside of our groups who probably think WE are a cult.
Linguistically there's no difference between a culture and a cult, just the negative connotation the latter bears. Imo people are far too quick to discount something they are unfamiliar with. If you learn more, and decide that the harm outweighs the virtues, that's okay too, but don't just listen to what other people say about "those people". That's where we get bigotry and essentialism.
It is so easy to fool people, come up with some made up new religion and you can be sure you will find followers and make money
Answer to the video headline: Yes.
I think it depends, spirituality is definitely it’s own intelligence in my opinion, because it comes with being in tune with yourself and the universe on a deeper level.. but I also feel like some religions completely ignore aspects like evolution, and ignoring the history of human existence I feel like is inherently “stupid”, because if you had actually have read on the subject you wouldn’t not believe it, given the overwhelming amount of evidence
Also though, the things some of these religions say, specifically the Abrahamic religions, are contradicting, small-minded, and honestly in my opinion just so morally wrong and unethical. There’s a difference if you believe in the base of it while just ignoring certain aspects, but if you believe in everything in religions such as Christianity or Islam, than you either support contradiction to today’s society and also imo have some extremely unethical beliefs, or you ignore aspects of the religion, whether you realize it or not.. which is which most people do
Okay evolution is still debated by scientists today, that's why we still call it the THEORY of evolution yes there is evidence but that doesn't necessarily mean that makes it true, what about the concepts scientists believed in the past? They also had evidence and thus why science declared them as fact but later on still got debunked
@@maxximum9553and name the unethical stuff you are talking about
And plus Abrahamic religions do believe in evolution (which involves mutations of animals and them interbreeding with another species - there is evidence for this
) but not in human evolution
I think the points you touched on at the last part of the video have more to do with capitalism than spirituality/lack thereof. But global capitalism could thus be a reason for the shift in religious decline.
Although I think this is a great discussion, but I think I know what is not being taken into consideration: indoctrination
Indoctrination can happen anywhere, anytime- but especially in the context of religion. When you’re a child, you’re told many things about (not really) how the world works and you should do this and you should do that, and when you’ve lived your life being told that this is things are for a very long time, you just accept them as true, a fact of life- just as how the sky is blue(and this is regardless weather you’re smart or stupid). When something goes against what you’ve believed your whole life, you usually have to be defensive about it, and will defend what you dearly believe, even if it goes against common sense or basic morality( obviously this isn’t true for all people, but it happens, and still happens)
What I think is missing from the ‘religious people are stupid’ argument is that religious people aren’t necessarily dumb, is that they see the world in a flawed point of view, which (depending on the religion) goes against all logic, all moral, and still follow this obviously flawed (to atheists at least) religion, without even a second thought. That’s what I see missing, cus that’s what indoctrination can do, and is why religious trauma exists
For the other side however, Tazzy seems to have glossed over religious fanatics( which I get, wasn’t really the point of the video) and what happens in ultra religious countries, especially in Muslim ones( Pakistan, Afghanistan just to name a few) and how backward and intolerant they can be towards other groups (the Yazidis in Iraq for example, and more importantly Jews in general). Again, this is besides the point, but it shows how religious extremism can harm and oppress people, and how that can affect people’s perception of religion as a whole, just by looking at theses places and much more.
She also mentioned about how even smart people engage in cults, and that they aren’t necessarily stupid. While I agree, that would also mean that it doesn’t matter how smart you are, it’s more about how impressionable you are. There are many instances of smart people who started cults and exploited the shit out of people, weather it was money, sex or even property, which I see is an even bigger issue than ‘who’s dumber?’
Damn this was long. Anyway, these are just my thoughts on the issue as a whole. You can give your opinions about what I wrote, just be respectful. Thanks so munch if you made it here, it actually means a lot
The funny thing about "intelligence" in religion is that it gets used to reconcile their belief in all kinds of creative ways, there are lots of arguments and philosophy, a lot of it incredibly smart, but the funny thing is, it doesn't converge, it does the opposite, we get more and more variation! This can even cause groups to splinter into different groups, religions seem to keep splitting into more and more diverse groups. This divergence tends to suggest it really isn't anchored in reality, that it's more a creative human phenomenon. When things are anchored in reality, we see the opposite happen, we get convergence, more and more agreeing, more and more different approaches that fundamentally arrive at the same conclusions.
I get what they mean. Maybe stupid is not the best word, but naive and stuck in black and white thinking a lot of the time for sure. Also tribalism. (This is not to say that a person can't engage in tribalism or black and white thinking without religion, sure they can. But this is specifically about religion so I am speaking to that). I think younger people are increasingly identifying as less religious because the worldview of religion is so outmoded and no longer serves most of us. At least speaking about the Abrahamic religions or religions of the book as some folks call them, they're colonial and misogynistic and most people just don't see any use in carrying that forward. The harm they have done far outweighs the good for many people. Also, I don't think discipline and productivity are necessarily a good thing, right? They're really ableist and capitalist concepts, the idea that being "disciplined" makes you an inherently better person. (Joe Rogan is really ableist so I'm not surprised). Also, the idea that religion/ancient people/the natural/ etc had more knowledge that we have now lost is also problematic in a lot of ways.
Thinking that religious people are stupid is very small-minded, indeed.
For me it's not that I think that they are stupid for believing in a God, that's harmless, I think they are stupid because they are believing the words of other people about God, Giving them money because they have faith in them and in the past marching to their drum beats over conflicts that the leaders most likely started themselves. Actually it's safe to say that if religion hadn't caused so much blood to be spilled and division amongst mankind I wouldn't have a bad thing to say about it at all.
Good topic. It seems a lot of people shun religion now because it has many restrictions and sacrifices but they dont see people benefiting from it. Also, they feel that way because such a large percentage of very religious people have not accomplished much. And they dont believe ancient people had greater knowledge based on a lack of evidence.
I have lived most of my life secularly, and more recently embraced Jewish faith. I think my faith has strengthened my intelligence; it forces me to question EVERYTHING. To be Jewish is literally to "wrestle with God", meaning it isn't at all blind faith. Judaism has contributed an incalculable amount of scholars to the world just as Islam has.
You studied both Judaism and Islam ??? I was of the opinion that the former is a ethno-religion.
@@curiouscat5229 No! i just mean both religions have contributed a lot of scholars to the world
although for what it's worth it's totally possible to convert from one to the other, and many people have
@@captaindigs9012 Well what do you think about women in Both Judaism and Islam ??
@@curiouscat5229 One could not worship both religions at the same time, it would go against rules of both religions. However it is possible to be ethnically Jewish and religiously Muslim. Or to have been raised Muslim and then to convert to Judaism, but still have some of that culture ingrained within you. I think this is beautiful! Cultural exchange and religion are the bread and butter of this life.
I don’t believe religious people are “idiots” anyone can be an idiot. I did want to comment on how you said there are less religious people in places like Turkiye and Iran, I believe that is because of their governments/politics and it’s not a true “freedom” of religion but enforcement upon them.
Sorry if I am being too demanding here but can you share what sort of effect Mr Erdogan's rule has on the religiosity of turkish youth ??? I want to understand the female perspective on this.
i think religion is neutral. from what i can tell all religions have parts about being nice, treating others with kindness, etc. but they also seem to have... not so nice parts.
personally, i don't think having faith or lack there of indicates anything about a person's intelligence.
what i will say tho is that it seems easier and more common for ppl to use religion as an excuse to harm others. i mean rn the conservative christians are basically trying to do a genocide against trans ppl. and that i have issues with.
Yes, they are. Theres litteraly no scenario where you can argue that its no idiotic to blindly believe in something youve no evidence for and to further blind yiurself by claiming to have a relationship with a god or gods
as an agnostic I personally dislike religion in general, i do sometimes get exasperated when debating with religious people but i respect everyones beliefs and opinions.
This is how i feel as a non liberal, having to deal with insane liberals everyday
And that’s okay, I’m sure they feel equally exasperated with u as well lol
U R DAMN RIGHT, BEING STUPID OR NOT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING RELIGIOUS, AND I'M A VERY SECULAR JEW
MY BIG BROTHER FOR EXAMPLE IS VERY INTELIGENT AND SMART AND HE BECAME VERY RELIGIOUS MANY YEARS AGO.
Smart people can believe in dumb ideas. However dumb people believe in dumb ideas more often. Religion is, in my opinion, a dumb idea. I know lots of brilliant religious people.
when you die, your loved ones will likely talk more about your impact on them, not your intelligence. and if religion is what helps you be a better person, so be it, i know it helps me personally:) completely agree that socialization matters! we're forgetting how many great scientists and thinkers in the past were religious too, and we know they weren't dumb, they laid the foundations for our modern knowledge. they were raised in a religious world, many of us now aren't, that's the only difference
Not all of them
Let me conduct my whole life based on what a PDF file said hundreds of years ago. Thats not idiotic? lol
I'm Mexican-American, was not raised religious but did end up going to my friends' evangelical church for several years and left Christianity by the time I graduated high school. I'm also queer and trans. my biggest difficulties are 1) the history of Christianity and what it's done to my people, both Mexicans and queer/trans people, and 2) any religion that says being queer or trans is wrong. it's anti-historical at best - plenty of cultures all through history have had gender-variant/attraction-variant people. hijra, bakla, mahu, muxe, sworn virgins, nadleeh, etc etc. it's all just another perfectly normal roll of the dice. we've always been here and we'll always be here.
also going to add the very specifically US problem of the never ending mass shootings. when you have a whole group of people spending more time trying to force schools to display the Ten Commandments than actually making sure the students in those schools survive to the end of the school day, there's a problem. we have a bunch of supposed Christians whose actions display that they actually worship guns, money, power, or some combination thereof. we also have a bunch of supposedly good people who are too afraid to identify as anything other than Christian because they've never really met anyone who lived happily outside of/without Christianity.
(I know I'm missing some stuff, but I've rewritten this three times now so you get what you get lmao)
Average IQ is 6 points less than an atheist but is an average so some of them are pretty smart
Always appreciate these really honest and thought provoking videos 🙏
The one you’re looking for to answer your doubts is Pat Condell.
Where I live we have all the religions and if you don't associate with one or some sort of belief system you are considered strange. Well in my circles 🤷🏾♀️.
Belief is armour; life is hard and we grab onto it cause we think deeply about life. We get scared about the vastness of time, space and the smallness of our existence. This causes a crisis as we stare into the abyss. So, we look to those who came before us for meaning. Its a desire for eternity that fills all of us. I say this as person who has moved away from my own religious upbringing.
I can't be mad; people use different tools to cope. Every tool can be used as a weapon 😊 does not mean the tool is bad. Some people use their intelligence in the same way as armour.
i love you
Just the thumbnail makes this video predictable as hell.
I don’t think I am smarter than religious people. I just think they choose to pick easy explanations to complex things out of pure convenience.
If you are an atheist - you think about a lot of things and subjects and you acknowledge the fact that we don’t know WHY (unless science already explained it).
If you are a believer - you just grab a simple concepts from some old book and choose to believe it despite lack of proof.
It’s lazy but I don’t really mind it… Unless religion starts to do what it is designed for:
trying to force me (an atheist) into certain type of beliefs and rules.
As long as everyone has personal freedom it’s fine, but when religion enters politics - we become enemies.
There is something uniquely dumb about American Evangelicalism, which is the dominant face of religion in the US and has cultural hegemony in many parts. That's what people are reacting to.
It's not even "religion" in the traditional sense so much as it's just a confidence game that has alot of social respectability. At alot of these churches, they don't even do anything uniquely religious, once you exclude their privatized sense of "belief" and tribal group loyalty they encourage.
I think the question should be “Is religion stupid” not “religious people”.
Any person can be less knowledgeable than any other, however is belief in a higher power a stupid thing?
I argue that belief in God and religion is intelligent. We can not even comprehend ourselves, let alone the World around us, and people who admit this are humble. Arrogant people in their stupidity get frustrated with not being able to know everything so their solution is to opt for disbelief and a life that prioritizes their desires. That’s actual stupidity.
"There are parts of yourself and your mind that can be unlocked the more you become religious or the more you dive into certain aspects of your spirituality". LOVED this video! Also, you look amazzzzing mashaAllah--where is your hijab from? I want this color! :)
why do you need something like a god?