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the biggest problem with your simulation is that you turned the lions into pokemon. It stopped being pokemon vs 1 billion lions, it became the pokemon vs 1 billion pokemon.
Its probably the best shot lions have at winning considering if we went by real world logic they all just insta lose to mons like yveltal, magcargo, gardevoir, and even deoxys/rayquaza that can camp in outer space. Gonna need a lion rocket ship to reach them
@@Flapjack3734 yea it's almost like the lions don't have a snowball's chance in hell. If they have to take away every advantage that pokemon have and strap them with all of the disadvantages caused by game mechanics, while also giving the lions every buff you can justify to yourself in order for them to have a possibility of success then you've kind of already declared the pokemon the winners.
Exactly. It's annoying. It's like he only cared about getting the video look good and didn't care about making sure the simulation (the whole point of the video) was done well.
@@gigas115 100% Any pokemon with a damaging move, a healing move and recycle has the potential to go infinite (if its defence is high enough). Give it +6 attack,defence, and evasion from baton pass to minimize the impact of flinch chain RNG, let the 4th move be substitute for the same reason, let the pokemon fight the same way as the lions (one after another) so max entry hazards can be set up so incoming lions will have 2/3 health and toxic poison and I think it’s likely that 1 blissey could beat all the lions. Add on all the other back up pokemon and it's probably certain that pokemon win.
@@TopOfAllWorldsUh, no. What do you want, realistic lions? Lions _ACTUALLY EXIST_ so one easily solos every copy of Pokémon since data can't fight back. Lions are also stronger than humans, who created the fiction of Pokémon. If you don't make lions Pokémon like, they break the rules of the Pokémon universe, and it's a stomp. So what's your pick? One lion solos, or lions have Pokémon stats?
came here expecting charisse’s and rayquaza to be like flying over a billion lions shooting shit out there mouth, instead the lions became pokémon and waited in a single file line to attack
lowk i just though a dugtrio would dig a hole and then a machamp would grab a gyrados and spin it in circles by its tail and then gyrados uses hyper beam and disentegrrates all the lions
Probably the only fair method, as using real life lions vs lore-based pokemon capabilities would be a billion lions dying for sport and not for challenge.
@@2yoyoyo1Unplugged The debate has never even been about power scaling too, but about how much you can nerf the pokemons while screaming about how it would be stupid to believe the pokemons should have the thing they're nerfing, duh! Like take PPs for example, they're a thing in the game and sorta in the anime too, but wild pokemons always have max PPs which means you can realistically think pokemons have ways to naturally restore their PPs, meaning they should be able to leave the fight, rest a bit and restore their PPs- making the entire argument pointless, right? WRONG! Because OF COURSE they can't leave the fight to rest and OF COURSE you're gonna have to strictly adhere to pokemons having a limited set of PPs, heh! The Pokedex? It's made up, of course. Forget that in every generations it's touted as being a very accurate encyclopedia that they gave first to talented trainers and then to literally any fucking kids as an app on their phone, it's OBVIOUSLY all a lie! A few pokedex entries being hard to accept OBVIOUSLY means all pokedex entries are to be discarded! Lions? Well OF COURSE their bite is the same as the move bite! Just, forget the fact about those few pokemons with jaws and teeth who learn neither crunch nor bite, like, let's say, half the fucking gen 1 roster. Pokemons have stats and Litleo/Pyroar is a lion pokemon, so obviously lions have the same stats. Discard that Pokemons canonically have some weird form of energy that powers both their moves and their bodies, of course. It's just a meaningless detail. And in game, Earthquake never managed to hit more than [insert number depending on which game the person talking played]. So OBVIOUSLY EQ would only hit 2/3/5 lions max. Canonical abilities *as shown in game* like being able to push an entire town to sleep, isolate a town from the very fabric of space and time, flood or dry the whole fucking world, destroy a meteor, make a cloning machine, create portals to other worlds, *travel* to other worlds, fuck up the weather? I made sure to mix up both anime and game feats to make sure if we discarded one as less canon than the other we'd still have material but NOPE, it doesn't count! Why? Because fuck you I guess, haha! So, yes, sure, if you remove the pokemons' pokedex descriptions, canonical feats, ability to flee the battle to rest and recover their energy, higher-than-animals intelligence, drive for battle, and nerf their moves, all while boosting the lions' cohesion, staying power, and offensive capabilities, then the fight is in favour of the lions, who the fuck would have guessed?
@@Sairiui the simulation here was also just wrong and very much 1 of every pokemon vs 1 billion litleo, all pokemon at the same level (which in and of itself doesn't make sense logically)
@@whitefri2z The earthquake thing and disregarding feats irks me, because the mere fact that earthquake has never hit more than five pokemon at once due to the game's limitations does not mean it can't hit more, and in fact it's pretty common sense that even if a gamemode did come out where you could battle 100 or more pokemon at once for some reason, it's safe to say moves like earthquake, or surf that literally spawns a tidal wave, would be able to hit every pokemon on screen regardless.
True. Yveltal could fly directly into the lion army, get defeated after draining as much as its can, then it goes into its cocoon form, eliminating all lions in roughly a cubic mile @Bobboerba
I was expecting registeel to have KO’ed the most lions, but I spit out my drink when you said “gave his own life”, because I KNEW it meant he would explode 😂
Giving the Lions stats comperatively to a Pokemon does NOT work. When Pokemon use flames lightning and other magic and have actual lore where some can move or even eat mountains. Even if you give lions ingame stats you need to compair how a lion would work vs a typical pokemon. Where my initial assumption is that a lions stat would be bellow 50 base stat TOTAL. And thats HIGH BALING THE LION!!! For example giving the Lion a attack stat over 70 and even giving it the strong jaw ability just because it can scratch cars? Aron has an attack stat of 70, and that thing litterally EATS RAILROAD TRACKS AND CARS thats just his meal. Aron doesnt even have a Jaw strong enough to get Strong jaw and I dont know if you have seen railroad tracks but that is just having full metal bars for dinner!!! You need several lions to even be able to damage a car with their biteforce "Which is impressive in the human world" lets stand start consuming it as if it was a regular meal. But it has strong jaw and a higher attack stat then Aron? Just because something is strong in the human world does not mean its strong in the Pokemon world. A lions biteforce within the Pokemon Universe is NOTHING! When a little baby Aron can OUT Perform a freakin lion. Just for Comparison of a Pokemon that does get Strong Jaw, Drednaw who can Sheer off Metal pipes and Crush a boulder with ease in a single bite. Lions dont come even remotely Close. They dont even have a fraction of the biteforce of a Pokemon without Strong jaw. Just a little bit of extra information, Bite force of a lion tops 1000 psi. The biteforce needed to Sheer of metal. 60.000 psi. And that is not even the peak of drednaws bite strenght. vs the absolute peak of a lions. Like Pokemon are insane creatures and giving a lion an base stat total that is comperatively to a Pokemon that has the ability to control fire. Is not a fair comparison. That is how powerfull Pokemon are comperatively vs real animals, Even a caterpie one of the weakest bugs can tackle a human meters away in to a tree. A Lion doesnt even come close to having that much of a force to tackle with. Better said AN ELEPHANT or HIPPO might not even reach that strenght at full speed. Caterpie did it from a standstill without runup. That means an Elephant or a Hippo have an attack stat of below 30? Giving a lion Litleos base stat total is just putting the lions on a spectrum that they dont have or never will reach. So for the next bit I dont know if you mention this in your video i refuse to watch it after 5 min i realised you did 0 research on this topic. If you use gameplay mechanics, you didnt even need to boost lions power and there is no reason to calculate anything because Pokemon will autolose, Every single time. Just for the sole reason that PP exist every pokemon will eventually run out of moves and then struggle to death. WAY WAY before you run out of Lions. Even if you have a Lion that has each stat in 1. And every pokemon can oneshot every single lion. There are not enough Pokemon/PP moves available to kill every Lion. Also last but not least several animals that have higher biteforce then a lion. Crocodiles have a bite force of maximum of 5000 psi 5x higher then a lions. Hippotamus have a biteforce of maximum 1800 PSI which is also quite a bit higher then Lions. Even Hyenas have a average higher biteforce score then Lions with a 1100 Psi... They aint even the strongest Feline bite force cuss a Tiger has a biteforce of 1200 psi... NO CLUE where you got strong jaw from. That just shows the lack of research for this video. Im sorry but set your standards higher please. I looked up this information in a couple of min.
To be fair, yes, the video makes no sense, but Pokédex descriptions even less so. Or at the very least, they are completely inaccurate to in-game stats. Like, Machamp is stated to be able to literally hurl trains around and move mountains but its base Atk is 130, whilst Hoppip’s is 35. Does that mean 4 Hoppips can move a mountain? Those guys are literally everywhere, how can a world where a handful of them can move a mountain even have a consistent geography anymore??
@@KoriKeiji They have to balance the game is the issue, you realistically have to nerf the pokemon. Just like in Dragonball games. Can Chiatzu beat a full power Jiren? no! But he can in the games because they are more balanced for the sake of the player.
@@DakumunDahBat Yes but the problem is Pokémon is not taking information from an already existing IP and rebalancing it for gameplay’s sake. The same people who balanced the stats are the ones who wrote the Pokedex. I’m not saying give Machamp 15 million Atk, I’m saying don’t write shit in your Pokedex that so blatantly makes no sense whatsoever. ‘Cause this ain’t even a slight exaggeration, this is like “This Pokémon is many times stronger than the strongest nuclear bomb ever built” and then it literally scales with the pigeons you find just outside your house
to be fair you made every single lion a Littleo, and it's hella unfair to give the pokemon game stats then boost the lions irl stats to stats beyond that, which made it go from 1 billion lions against around 1K pokemon to 1 billion littleos against around 1K pokemon
People also forget there's actually probably hundreds of thousands if not more pokemon assuming we take how many there are in the lore rather than just 1 of each
The problem with giving lions a moveset is the fact that a normal lion won't be dealing dark type damage if it bites something. Like pokemon can bite food and other things but still not know the attack bite. So shedinja would be untouchable and good luck fighting a ghost
How do you think the move bite works then? Because I'd say it's just a bite that's intended to hurt an opponent. I think lions can do that pretty easily
@@Splinter-ge9pf then you try biting a ghost and tell me how effective it is. Like I said pokemon can bite things but not be able to even learn the attack. meaning the move bite has dark elemental energy in the attack. Lions are not pokemon so their bite won't have that dark elemental energy. which means they can't even touch ghost type pokemon.
@@Elysium.S fym "dark energy" dark literally meant "evil/bad" in original Japanese I'm pretty sure a lion biting your face off is pretty bad Ghosts also aren't real, so they obviously work differently to our understanding of them. Hell, have YOU tried biting a ghost? For all we know it might work
@@Splinter-ge9pf in that case why hasn't any human in the pokemon universe tried using moves that they could "use." again their bite won't be dealing dark damage because they're not pokemon. if anything all their attacks should be considered normal type
@@devlindysqyz6345 since when could it do that!?!? Just because someone is strong doesn’t mean it can vaporize a million lions! Also, why is it an ultra necrozma? You can’t just make up that you get the Pokémon in its strongest form. I can’t give the lions mounted turrets, why do you get to?
I’m going to be honest. I’m all for team Lion, but there are so many issues with simulating this. The first of them being, Lions don’t have a “type.” Their bite isn’t the same bite as the dark type move “bite.” Ghosts would absolutely be immune to a lion. Full stop. That also means I would say that ghost moves would affect lions, fighting moves would not be super effective, and lions wouldn’t get stab or a type boost to their moves. It would be a simple straight damage. Also, I think the size of the Mon and what it’s made of play a role in this as well. We have literal boulders and mountains as Pokemon. A lion’s bite would do next to nothing. I’m not convinced that 100 lions all attacking at the same time could kill a golem. I’m just not. Like, they might be able to bite its legs off or something, but unless golem actually bleed and have the ability to bleed out, then that’s ALL they could do. Meanwhile, rollout doesn’t require legs and would eventually kill the lions. Another thing is explosion damage. When you showed the registeel exploding, it made me think about my main issue with this, and that’s that it’s not on a battlefield where everyone is fighting at once. Explosion on a battlefield would be so much more catastrophic to the lions if Registeel went into the middle of 1,000 lions and just exploded. That would 100% work and it would take all of them out. Being on a full battlefield might also be in the lion’s favor because they have the numbers to overwhelm so many Pokemon. Like, if it’s not faster than the lions, they wouldn’t even get an attack off. So I think I talked myself into a different opinion. I think this battle would consist of lions killing everything that isn’t unbitable like ghosts and mountains and boulders and icebergs and steel buildings or whatever… and then all of those mons could just exploded or something to kill as many as possible. So I think it would be an insane battle, but Pokemon would come out on top, unless the Pokemon use up all their PP. If they don’t have the PP to finish, the Pokemon would struggle themselves to death, but at least I think what I’m imagining would be a fairer battle
I agree that the simulation is not done well, but we can't both ignore type chart and claim it applies at the same time. Lions either obey Pokemon typing and therefore are hitting with Bite to do Dark-type damage, or they're Typeless in which case they still hit Ghost-types (as proven by Struggle). Ultimately the whole thing is impossible to simulate because you have to select some level of logic to work off and Pokemon logic contradicts itself around every corner.
@ I’m not applying the type chart to the lions at all because they aren’t pokemon. I’m applying real world physics. You let me know when a lion can bite a ghost in real life. That’s the main property of ghosts. You can’t touch them. A Pokémon ghost is not the same as a real world ghost. A lion cannot bite something that doesn’t have something tangible to bite. It has nothing to do with the type chart. It’s just real world physics applied to the lion. “Typeless” is still pokemon logic. I’m not applying pokemon logic to real world animals at all. Lion’s don’t have a type at ALL. It’s not that they are the “typeless” type. It’s just, can a lion bite a ghost? No. So a pokemon that is a ghost, is completely immune to a lion’s bite. Unless the argument is that pokemon ghost types aren’t actual ghosts and that they are physical beings. Which, I disagree with heavily, but at least that’s an argument.
You are claiming that ghost pokemon would behave in the same way a "real" ghost would, but are saying that a real lion would not behave in the same way a pokemon lion would, which is an inconsistent argument. Ghost pokemon are based on our fictional ghosts the same way a lion pokemon would be based off a real lion. Ghosts aren't real so it's pointless to argue IRL ghost vs lions, but in Pokemon, lions and ghosts coexist, so that is what makes sense.
@ Ghosts aren’t real, but there is a consistent consensus on certain traits that ghosts have. Which is different from the pokemon world. Ghosts do not have tangible matter. We cannot touch them, and we largely cannot see them. They can move through walls and objects as they please and it takes quite a bit of energy for them to interact with the physical world. We are in agreement that a lion could not bite a ghost in real life even if ghosts were real, right? So the only plausible way that a lion could bite a ghost type pokemon is if your argument is that a pokemon like Gastly isn’t actually a gaseous ghost form, but rather a physical entity that just has a ghost type label. And I disagree with that, because there are plenty of examples of actual ghost pokemon that are based on our mythical consensus on ghosts in the real world. There is no way a lion is physically capable of biting a shuppet or a misdreavus, for example. These are obviously not physical entities. On top of that, Shedinja’s ability only allows it to be hit by super effective moves, and because lions don’t have a type and don’t have the same bite as the dark type bite, they also wouldn’t be able to bite shedinja
@@PtylerBeats you are saying that ghosts are different than Pokemon ghosts, but also saying that because a lion wouldn't be able to bite a ghost, it would also not be able to bite a ghost pokemon. This line of reasoning makes no sense. You either have to say that ghosts and pokemon are comparable, or not comparable. Your main argument to explain why a lion wouldn't be able to bite a ghost pokemon, is because a lion would not be able to bite a real ghost. To make this conclusion, you have to assume that real ghosts would have the same properties as a ghost pokemon. We already know this is not true, since ghost pokemon are clearly affected by physical moves, bite included. So you truly cannot apply the logic of an interaction between a real ghost and a real lion, to a pokemon ghost and a real lion. We also cannot compare pokemon ghost vs pokemon lion with real ghost vs real lion, since the outcomes are obviously different. We either have to imagine a ghost pokemon brought into the real world, or a real lion brought into the pokemon world. I think bringing a lion into the pokemon world (and giving it pokemon properties) makes a lot of sense and is straightforward to analyze.
Everyone's debating the logistics of the fight and meanwhile 3 minutes in before he even explains how it'll go down i'm like "what the fuck do you mean NO animal has topped this bite force, have you entirely forgotten about crocodilians, sharks, hippos, orcas and probably FUCKIN DINOSAURS ???"
@@craigyeah1052 Oh absolutely, but i mainly meant the animals that bite MAGNITUDES harder than any feline, can't compete with orcas at nearly 20000 psi
Not to mention... HOW are the lions even gonna get to him?? he flys! xD Every flying type (and several other psychic or levitate) pokemon have an insane match up against them; there's a reason the "lion ladder" comes up in people's arguments, it's cause without it the lions literally can't win! xD
@@ninjablade2 this argument isn't even about if a billion lions could beat all the pokemon (they can) anymore, it's about people having a good time vs idiots wasting their time theorizing about fake monster "gods" that can be beat by a single red and white ball.
@@vincenth.8709 "theorizing about fake monster "gods" that can be beat by a single red and white ball" Is such an insane bad faith representation of the facts; applying in game logic to a theoretical situation, let alone discrediting a literal god level creature because there was a way found to capture them (and somehow thinking that matters when considering their raw power vs a bunch of lions) is simply trying anything to discredit the massive advantage the pokemon side has Pokemon can create fissures in the earth, spatial dimension rifts, they can straight up send you into an reverse dimension, let alone the fact that... many of them can fly and the lions can't! Just Deoxys and Rayquaza alone could chill in the upper stratosphere/in orbit and rain shit down for days and days on end; we never see them eat and Deoxys has shown it has no need for breathing all of this is without getting into the rulers of time and space! Or the progenitor of earth! You said "it's about people having a good time vs idiots wasting their time theorizing" as if there are not people theorizing *literal lion ladders* to deal with the pokemon that fly, as if both sides are not theorizing; you do not speak for everyone and i'd thank you if you have your own opinions to keep them as such, your own and nobody elses The pokemon win
@@ninjablade2 see but to an extent i think the person has a good point, anyone that says the lions win is literally just fucking around, trolling. They know the lions don't win but it's really fun to just repeat "1 billion is a lot of lions tho" If anyone takes the question seriously, the pokemon win hands down, but everyone on the side of the lions knows that, so they just decide to not take the question seriously.
@@ninjablade2 you see Lion ladder is actually fun, saying Pokemon automatically win because they have magcargo is like the annoying kid on the playground who says his superpower is that he beats everyone else’s powers
You forget just how powerful lions actually are. Pokemon SHOULD be scared of how dangerous and ferocious lions could be. Many Pokemon are based off of animals, after all. So you're argument is incredibly invalid.
@Sambrostar Piplup is capable of generating enough force to wipe out a town with 1 move (whirlpool calc). You could get me the most roided out, tanky, damage resistant lion on planet earth today, and it still wouldn't have enough durability to survive more than one move for a most pokemon. Nor would it have the AP to even fucking damage most of them. Add into that AoE on most of these moves and 1 billion lions isn't a challenge for the pokemon roster, it's target practice.
@@thatguyonyoutube2063 If piplup could destroy a town quickly enough before it could be attacked, then sure, but a Lion would quickly pounce on it before it even became a threat. I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion that a lion couldn't hurt a single Pokemon, but I assume it's based on imagination, not logic. Unless all Pokemon's skin and bone structure were to be made of literal adamantium (which it isn't), then that claim is wrong. In fact, Lions have enough bite force to crush a car, as explained in the video. If that's the case, steel types can be beaten just as easily as any other type.
@@Sambrostar Couldn't find the profile on VsBattle wiki about piplup but could find one for torchic. Torchic durability scales too SMALL CITY LEVEL. Torchic has LESS defence then Piplup thus we can conclude that Piplup's durability upscales Torchic's Small city level durability. Just for fun I looked up what pokemon has the lowest defence stat, turns out chancy. It's VSbattle wiki has it's durability at building level. As in it can survive an attack that would wipe out a standard sized building. Oh did I mention the fact that Shuckle, the slowest pokemon by stats (who is thus by definition upscaled by all other pokemon in terms of speed) is MASSIVELY HYPERSONIC+ So assuming you're not about to tell me Lions are capable of Levelling your average apartment complex with relative ease or have somehow surpassed the sound barrier. There, the logic you assumed didn't exist because you couldn't fathom basic power scaling. I hope this teaches you to actually do your fucking research before accusing someone else of delusion.
ive never seen someone miss the mark so bad in my life, this is not every pokemon fighting 1 billion lions, this is every pokemon having 1 billion individual battles with another pokemon. The point is that there are pokemon that the lions can never even damage, as well as AoE abilities that would level every single lion on the battle field. Dont ever show up on my home page again thank you :)
@@xcwarrior that's the problem, the debate isn't game mechanics. It's 1B lions vs all pokemon. Enforcing game mechanics is like playing a DBZ game, picking Yamcha and then beating the Goku AI and saying "See Yamcha solo's goku" He clearly doesn't, that's just the game balanced to be somewhat fair for the players, to keep all characters at least somewhat playable. We all know how that fight would ACTUALLY go down
The logic of this video was "what if we brought the lions in the pokemon games" I'm on the side of "what if we brought the pokemons in the real world" (no pps no stats no turns)
wolfe already did the math on a theoretical battle where all pokemon and lions on the field at the same time and worked out that kyogre and support pokemon one shot all the lions with absolutely no contest
While I do think the pokemon still win, all damaging AoE moves only hit the opposing opponent and the allies next to them. We know this from triple battles. (any ghost type with recycle + damage move wins 1v1000000000 easy.)
@@norock_ Horde battles have 6 mons, and are positioned as if your mon was the centre mon in a triple battle. AoE moves can only hit pokemon opposite, adjacent, and diagonal pokemon with a limiting distance of 1. At most 1 move can hit 9 if we extrapolate from horde/triple battles, but that's still no where near enough to hit all lions
Many people have already pointed out the many flaws in this simulation. But for the sake of it, I decided to figure out what the least number of things you'd need to change about it for pokemon to win, and the answer is basically that you only need to make it a double battle. If it's one double battle in which both sides have the whole team in reserve (1 billion lions vs all 1000 or whatever pokemon), you can set up an infinite combo as follows: Lead with Exeggutor-A + typhlosion, equipped with a leppa berry. Typhlosion protects turn 1 while exeggutor skill swaps harvest to Typhlosion. The only fail chance for the whole set up is if exeggutor gets flinched on this turn - the lions can't kill a max defense exeggutor even with 2 crits + crunch def drop. Once that's done, just switch every turn between 2 drought mons (like ninetales and torkoal) while typhlosion spams eruption. Sun boosted eruption always OHKOs even the bulkiest lions with your given stats, typhlosion has infinite PP with harvest + leppa berry, and switching doesn't use PP so you never run out of drought Edit: you can have Exeggutor equipped with a covert cloak or choice scarf, guaranteeing the skill swap for a 100% success rate Edit 2: you can go infinite with 1 pokemon, no rule changes necessary. I made another comment with the set but TLDR: recycle drain punch medicham
assuming all 1025 Pokémon are AI Controlled for the simulation, the chances they'd be the right pair, have the right moves, held items, and the coordination to set up an infinite stall is astronomically low. It's a billion lions vs one of every pokemon, not a billion lions vs a competitive trainer that caught one of every pokemon
@@nataliecoronado4206and the simulation he made was 1 billion litleos vs 1000 pokemon, not 1 billion lions vs 1000 pokemon. if theres any problem here its that.
@Snas-nm2ij well, how would you have done it? Litleo (not even its evolved form Pyroar) is a pretty fair in-universe approximation to me. Even if you gave it the stats of Sunkern, people would have been upset either way
@@nataliecoronado4206pokemon has to be a moderately balanced game so the actual power of most pokemon is vastly undersold by their in game battle statistics. And it takes 2 seconds to realize the stupidity of having this simulation run like a pokemon battle. So for starters, I would not equate 1 billion lions vs 1 of every pokemon to 1 billion pokemon vs 1 of every pokemon, which is what this video did in the traditional battle format for pokemon
@@seongjaeoh8742 using real world logic most pokemon would be useless so we have to use in game logic, for instance alot of flying types are too heavy to get airborne irl. Wailmer wouldnt be able to move because it doesnt have a tail for locomotion, Onix wouldnt be able to move and would literally be a pile of inanimate boulders, scizors body and muscles are all made of metal as hard as steel. Steel cannot bend the way a szizor moves so technically scizor would be immobile and pokemon like him the same. This simulation was the most balanced it can be given the data provided to us from the games. There is no way you could simulate 1 billion lions vs 1 of every pokemon as a giant warzone, it would be impossible to simulate which pokemon was attacking which lion. Pokemon would technically hurt each other in the AOE's etc and wipe each other out, far too many variables. so the most controlled way is to make the lions battle the same way pokemon always have. Especially when they stats are based around turn based combat.
I think the main problem with this is that you assumed that each Pokémon was basically fighting alone, and the lions were all fighting as a team, albeit one at a time. But if we were to assume that the Pokémon were all in a line like that it becomes pretty trivial for them to win. Just have a Pokémon to set up entry hazards, especially Toxic Spikes, and then have Pokémon that can outlast them like we saw with Tropius. I think this strategy would work even if you gave the lions the full stats of Pyroar. And you could obviously change the order of the Pokémon to utilize their strengths like Harvest Pokémon following Sun setters.
Let's take all those in consideration, the Pokémon still need to beat on average almost 1 million lions each. 19 of them didn't do any damage meaning the remaining 19 million has to be KO by other pokemons. The Pokémon will run out of PP and just hit themselves through struggle, and lose. The best case scenario Astro showed was 200(something)LPL, that's nothing compared to the needed 1 million LPL for EACH Pokémon.
@@Nex123 If they set up toxic spikes, you can run sets where a pokemon is designed to just never die, and the lions lose. All you need is a pokemon faster than the lions that can set up substitute (and the sub survives one bite), has a recovery move of some sort, and has recycle. Toxic + Stealth Rocks + double spikes puts the lions on a pretty short timer. The lions would need to crit 16 times in a row to take out the subs, then 1hKO (probably also with a crit) the pokemon on the turn it sets up recycle on sub. Each of these pokemon would require such absurd luck that only a handful of pokemon need to do this to completely swing the battle.
@@Nex123sticky webs to make even less speed EVs making all mons able to invest more in bulk or offensive, poison spikes to poison or badly poison every lion entering the battle, rocks (be it from stealth rocks or our stoney axed friend from old Hisui, meaning he could also get a kill with it, spikes (again, could also be put up while still attacking and defeating a lion), and, if dynamax/gigantamax is possible there's also the sharp steel
The main reason people even think lions could win is because everyone treats them as if they were pokemon, no, bite and crunch aren't in the lions "moveset" its a lion, not a pokemon. It does NOT have typing, it cannot touch Shedinja. It is NOT super effective on anyone.
random thought, could we possibly say that shedinjas wonder guard only works on the POWER of a Pokemon? as in non-pokemon are unaffected by the wonder guard ability because their attacks have no type. not even normal type. for example, can a trainer hug their Shedinja?
I think the problem with this is that it's a 1v1 when the whole point is to have an all-out brawl. 1 earthquake and it's over. This is like putting an Olympic sprinter into a marathon.
Groudon uses Earthquake and eliminates half of all Pokemon and a country's worth of lions. Kyogre creates a tsunami and wipes out the rest of the land pokemon, but still just a small dent of lions. There would still be like 900,000,000 lions left over to clean up. Do you know how big 1 BILLION is? Pokemon get SLAMMED, no questions. Kyogre would create a tidal wave and then just get jumped in the ocean by a lion submarine. Their best bet is sending Deoxys into space to win the war of attrition - oh wait, Lion Ladder into space! Face it bro, it's over for the Pokemon.
I think something that’s kinda flawed with this method that isn’t talked about is assuming the Lions and Pokémon would be on the same level playing field like is the average lion really going to be level 50 in Pokémon standards?
Klefki Steel / Fairy (resists normal and dark) Prankster Leppa berry -recycle (restores leppa berry. must be in 1st move slot so that last 1 pp of recycle will restore recycle) -substitute (to stop flinches and defense drop from crunch) -draining kiss (to recover hp) -calm mind (so draining kiss kills) OR Iron Defense (so substitutes take more hits) Edit: Also it outspeeds anyway. 75 vs 72. Edit 2: please try this in a simulator Edit 3: now with Nature and EVs Nature: Bold (+Def -att) EVs: HP: 80 (just enough for Crit crunch not to kill a sub in one hit. It leave would leave sub at 1% health) Def: 252 Sp. Attack: 178 252+ Atk Strong Jaw Litleo Crunch vs. 80 HP / 252+ Def Klefki on a critical hit: 56-66 (20.3 - 24%) -- possible 6HKO 1) FYI. This litleo has its attack changed to 73. Adamant with max attack EVs. 2) prankster means speed doesn't matter as long as you use draining kiss only when you have a sub, since all other moves have priority 3) at no boosts, it takes about 2 draining kiss to recover HP lost to sub (12.3 to 14.9%) 4) at +2, you recover 24.7% to 29% Edit 4: changed move order. Turns out that is important. If recycle is not in your first move slot, your last pp of recycle will restore pp on a different move if another move has 0 pp which means you can't recycle anymore. Also updated detail for sub blocking defense drop from crunch which would be a death sentence to klefki
TL:DW He turned 1 billion lions into 1 billion pokemon and made them fight every pokemon. So it was really "Would 1 billion pokemon beat 1 thousand pokemon."
Interestingly, through these rules, you need only one pokemon to win: Gallade. Gallade can learn Drain Punch, Recycle, and Swords Dance (and is one of the only pokemon to do so). Using Swords Dance to set up, he only need guarantee that he doesn't die on the first three turns. He out speeds the lions, instantly KOs with drain punch, which heals him, and then when he consumes his leppa berry he has more drain punches. He is an eternal lion-killing machine.
0:46 the reason in games Arceus is not the strongest pokemon is because the Arceus we see is just part of it's true form. So it makes sense both in lore and games (this is explanined in pLA)
@@maxurmon A heavily neutered hand of god lost to specialized metal concrete. The actual full power Original One can’t even fit inside a universe. In the anime, that Arceus was also heavily weakened due to lacking a piece of itself, so you’re fighting a small fragment of a small fragment.
@@maxurmon We don’t know, it’s likely that it’s one fragment per universe. But yeah, it should also be noted that there’s a reason that movie isn’t acknowledged anymore by Pokémon themselves. It doesn’t exactly fit the newly established lore in Legends Arceus.
@@catherinejaddii828 It's also a baby. Adrenaline filled Lion Charging in to end a bloodline. I put my bet on the lion (though I would have to assume the lion is fighting to the death and knows only one of 2 is getting out of the cage.)
@@ediscaptain A magical baby. No matter at what stage of development, pokemon are able to damage things like a steelix. I wouldn't compare a magical creature that can cut steel with its claws to a normal animal. They're not comparable just because they're both felines. Not to mention lions wouldn't have pokemon moves and somehow able to infuse their bites with dark energy to hit the incorporeal.
@TheBlueKio the fuck is a "dark energy"? That is not a thing, not in battles at least. In the original Japanese dark literally means evil or bad I think lions are capable of doing bad things (for example - biting your face off)
1 billion lions dont have the strenght to condense into a black hole, even with the hive mind people say they have (for some reason). Even if they managed to do it, the black hole would be smaller than grain of sand and dissapear almost instantly
i mean theyd basically kill themselves in the process, not to mention any pokemon that can control blakcholes and wether you consider ghost pokemon as physical beings that could get sucked into the black hole
Which begs the question: How many lions do you think you'd have to condense into a 1-meter cubed volume to create a black hole?? And how massive would the.. pile(?)... orb(?) of lions have to be to produce enough force to compress the other lions down that much?
They probably looked at typical competitive movesets (So what they would "normally" run) However, it appears they just picked the first moveset in the list as Toxic Aegislash is not what I'd think of when running Aegislash. Mixed Attacker Aegislash would have been way more fitting.
To be honest first up Wolfe did the Callcs for free for all, Double battle: guess what shedinja with Type switch works decent. In his video he made a mistake, he put all Lions in a row for every Pokémon individually. That means the field resets every time. If you want to make it a fair battle you need to put them all in a row. The strat: You set up all Hazards for 3/8 damage and Bad poison (idk if one layer is better), then you get Set up mons for +6 evasion, +6 def, +6 sp def, ingrain, +6 speed, substitute and batton pass it onto the "unkilleable" Exeggutor. And look after a long battle they'll win. So as long as you you don't give the lions the advantage of an unfair battle, Pokémon will win. (Shout out to anyone who read the entire comment)
Since the origin form palkia and dialga were in the sim does that mean it's one of every *form* of pokemon? if so theres 4 billion forms of spinda, as long as each spinda did at least a quarter of a lions health bar they win.
Origin Dialga and Palkia are alternate forms, with base stats different to their regular ones. The Spinda forms are just pattern variations, so using all 4 billion of them would just the same as using 4 billion regular Spinda. The same goes with Pokemon like Arceus and Silvally (they have 18 different forms, one for each type) - you wouldn't be able to use them since they're all just the same pokemon. However you would probably be allowed to use the Therian and Incarnate forms of Landorus, Tornadus, Thundurus and Enamorus, as well as the different forms of Zygarde and Rotom, among others - since they're all different forms, not variations.
As I always say, if you're questioning who wins in a fight, it's always the one you have to nerf the most to make it a fair fight. Disregarding lore and only taking into account ingame logic, while buffing the lions by forcing every battle to be a 1v1, clearly shows that at full power Pokemon do in fact win. This video is simulating "weakest every Pokemon vs strongest 1 billion lions"
this comment should be pinned. If you have to essentially buff the lions to scale to even weaker pokemon and then nerf the pokemon and scale in accuracy by game logic, ofc the lions will win. Kyogre in the game isn't drowning everything but in the lore nough said.
Except that the lions weren't buffed in any way - hell, they even had to be scaled down to litleo's stats instead of pyroars, and the pokemon still weren't able to do jack squat until round 2 where they had to get precise sets to specifically counter the lions while lions remained in their initial nerfed state. Even in the most numerous battle format that exists in pokemon - 3v3, pokemon would probably still need to tryhard against what's basically a bunch of pre-evolutions. Edit: Oh, and don't forget the part where pokemon had to use held items, something that lions also weren't given. The only format where pokemon could just aoe all the lions is 1000 vs. 1 billion (aka the Wolfey video), which is, as far as i checked, a format that never existed in any of the games. So you literally need to invent an entirely new format to buff the pokemon enough to be able to consistently win.
@sophiasabkv1372 You call giving litleo stats a fire breathing cub to lions a nerf? I say no way. you can't scale a real lion to a pokemon that has tons of possibilities depending how you build it, moves, etc. it's definitely a buff to an animal which otherwise would have a hard time on its own. I'm not saying they can't beat lesser mons ofc with these numbers. But to scale the lions already to a pokemon come on that's clearly a buff.
@sophiasabkv1372 Let's think about it like this then, what happens when you put pokemon on earth, with 1 billion lions, do the same thing lions got the treatment for in games but now for pokemon in the real world. No stats, no pp, no held items, nothing, just pure ability of what that pokemon can do.
"I simulated 1 of Every Pokemon VS 1 Billion of a Pokemon that I made up" You also gave the lions a good moveset, when they could have had shit like growl and roar
@@kingwinifred4393main problem: the lions fucking being so kind to do a single file line instead of doing a horde battle against all Pokemon just for Kyogre to use surf
@@chuamingkun5781 assuming 4 moves all with 64 pp, and every battle being a horde battle against 5 opponents, AND every single move killing everything, AND every single pokemon(including caterpie, etc) being able to do that that leaves us with 64*4*5*1025=1,312,000 so about a million and a half lions before the pokemon start struggling to death. do you REALLY think that the struggles can do 1000x the kills as the moves did?
You're thinking about this way too hard. All you really need to beat every lion are two Pokémon: a Smeargle with Focus Sash (for extra consistency) and a max Attack Gliscor with Poison Heal and Toxic Orb. You don't even need that much luck to pull it off. Smeargle puts a lion to sleep with Spore, then sets up Aqua Ring and Ingrain to Baton Pass them onto Gliscor. Gliscor comes into the fight already poisoned and starts using Swords Dance until the move runs out of PP, using Roost to stay healthy. When it runs out of all PP it will start using Struggle at +6 Attack, outspeeding and killing a lion every turn and taking 25% HP recoil, which it will then immediately heal back thanks to Poison Heal, Ingrain and Aqua Ring.
in frank's scenario, it's only one pokemon per battle, they don't have the benefit of having a whole setup pokemon for them to enable those kind of strategies
@@julesm5892 Yeah it is kinda.. idk dumb i guess, lot of the pokemon are good because of the the support they provide/ receive, a lot of moves and abilities are specifically meant for double battles like friend guard, hospitality, moves hitting all foes like water spout , eruption etc.., Ally helping moves like helping hand pollen puff, instruct, tailwind, heck even the official completive pokemon is double battles, also in the video stat changes, recharge moves persist while encountering new Lions and he describes as "Randomly Encountering infinite lions" in Which Case The Stat Changes would be removed and the recharge turn would be cancelled ,it was like they are all in a single battle not random encounters i just think it could be phrased a bit differently , still cool video tho
realistic situation: "Pikachu uses thunderbolt!" *Every lion in a 5 meter radius is instantly vaporized by a 200,000 ampere current* "It's super effective!"
arceus lost to concrete in its own movie, even the lore doesn't support them, they only win if you take pokedex entries as truth and if you think magcargo having the heat of the son makes sense then you just win because i'm not arguing with you
UM ACTUALLY BECAUSE OF HORDE BATTLES WE KNOW NO MATTER HOW MANY TARGETS ARE THERE IT WILL ALWAYS -25% MEANS EVEN IF THERE ARE 1B LIONS EARTHQUAKE WILL STILL DO 75% DAMAGE@@somerandommusicianSRM
You're just mad that he's being fair and objective using game logic, which is what Pokémon is. Pokémon did not start as an anime, nor as a lore, but a game. While I'd argue that lions are closer to Persian, which is normal, using a similar Pokémon as a basis for the powerscale is perfectly reasonable.
Except there is one Pokemon that automatically beats every lion although he's from a very obscure spin-off. Christmas Pikachu has infinite health in his game.
And not once did he think to use Giga Drain as the healing I don't think. Like, Arboliva with Harvest+Leppa, Reflect, Sunny day, Growth, Giga Drain. Open reflect, Growth, Giga. Growth, Giga. Repeat until +6 Sp Atk. Sunny day, Giga. Then spam the Gigas.
Next lets use a simulation where lions have to eat, fight eachother for territory and sleep most of the day while slowly starving to death while Rayquaza sits in space infinitely
Lion fans when they discover horde battles: "I'mma pretend I didn't see that!". Edit: Kinda funny how both Astroid and Wolfey made a video about this following game logic, but with one using the battle mode with most pokemon on the field and Frank using the one with the least.
@@shamussarrazine6623 and there were multiple reasons why Eternamax Eternatus solos this despite what he said: Unlimited PP (raid boss) Untouchable (needs doggo) 4 targets at once
The only thing I learned from this video is that Litleo, with a bit of setup, can effectively body legendaries. And, arguably, do it better with legit hidden ability Moxie instead of not legit ability Strong Jaw.
It’d work pretty well if you purposefully make EV spreads that aren’t 252 speed and max attack and click focus blast instead of thunderbolt lmao, it’s pretty much the entire genre of those staged pokemon showdown videos if you think about it
except you need multiple litleos and moxie wouldn't do shit cause you need to ko for it to activate and you get 1 kill every 20 litleos and then revenge killed right after if there's a second legendary, so no litleo can't, a shit ton of litleos can but strong jaw is still better than moxie
To do that you would need for the legendary to have a set madr by someone who has never tried competitive. So its: perfected set for the litleo vs extremely flawed and straight up silly set for the pokemon.
Anyone who says the Pokémon aren’t smart enough/aren’t going to work together is being INCREDIBLY disingenuous, especially if they expect 1 billion lions to somehow coordinate with each other
the fact they all run away from any intimidate mons trampling and infighting. The lions would also just starve to death while all the pokemon just hide in the distortion world for like a week
Especially considering most pokemon are of human or greater intelligence (Greatest examples of extremely intelligent are Alakazam and Metagross, Alakazam with 5000 IQ and Metagross with 4 Super Computers)
realistically no, they aren't pokemon, so they dont have "Dark" energy their bites and slashes wouldn't even be the move bite or slash. unfortunately this doesnt translate in game logic, but a more fair comparison to game rules is putting the lions at 1 in all stats (they shouldn't even outspeed weaklings like magicarp as even magicarp can react to some electric attacks and dodge them.) and giving them Leer, rest, growl, and scary face, as those are the ONLY kinds of attacks a lion could even HOPE to so much as emulate. Even scratch can inflict damage, and lions wouldn't even be able to hurt the pokemon, so literally no attacking moves should be learnable by the lions. with game logic however, even using this method pokemon still run out of pp eventually. but the harvest method used in the video would work just as well, if not better against lions who are incapable of doing damage other than via struggle, which will only ever do 1 damage (thanks to their low stats) to any given pokemon. (even struggle they shouldn't have but we can't code struggle out of the game) though allowing use of items is perhaps, somewhat iffy, I think it's fair play since the pokemon are not allowed to team up, nor fight the lions all at once which would make this challenge trivial even using game logic, as EQ simply hits all targets on the field and even with split damage would auto kill all the lions no matter what stats they had, as the EQer could be boosted to hell and back by it's fellow supporting pokemon. (pokemon challenges covers this way better than I could.)
@@prodecks6654 I mean there are several problems with your logic here (nothing indicates that bite and crunch have special "dark" energy within the game, saying that lions are weaker than literally every known Pokemon doesn't make any logical sense, in-game Earthquake only hit adjacent targets not every opposing Pokemon as seen in triple battles). You're stacking the deck an insane amount for the Pokemon by assuming that lions are incapable of replicating literally any feat that a Pokemon is capable of, which anyone examining how Pokemon function logically both in the games specifically and in the franchise as a whole could see doesn't actually hold any water as an argument
"PP run out eventually" to be fair, if the pokemon kill the lions in a single turn (which was proven possible following game logics, by Wolfe Glick), PP would not be an issue
@@tpfoxCastro they can't take out all the lions in one turn if we stick strictly to mechanics and logic that are replicable in the actual games- the maximum number of opponents any one Pokemon can fight at once is 5 (via gen 6 horde battles), and spread moves like Earthquake and Surf only affect adjacent targets (as seen in Triple battles, where an offensive move used by a Pokemon on either side can only affect targets adjacent to it with the exception of some Flying type moves and Pulse-type moves). If we're going to use in game logic to debate, we have to stick to what's actually possible within the games
"One little banana dinosaur could solo a billion lions if given enough time, resources and fuck ton of luck" So Tropius is the Batman of the Pokemon universe, at least in the Battle against the lions arc.
Im pretty sure if one bulky pokemon set all the spikes, tropius would get a ko every four turns, so only around 250 million turns to kill all the lions
I mean, there's multiple pokemon that could probably just straight up destroy Earth and kill all the lions by suffocating them in the vacuum of space if we look at lore. Turning it into game logic just kinda makes it impossible though since Pokemon are significantly powered down for gameplay purposes.
Pyroar: Remember my son these lions that spread out as far as the eye can see are ours to conquer, they are our enemies. Litleo: But father what's out there beyond the lions? Beyond what we see? Pyroar: Freedom....
This is basically just saying “how many lions can one Pokémon kill at a time and then just add them all up” but it’s not taking into account that a real battle would be taking into account that all Pokemon would be battling all lions at the same time. They would also benefit from any other Pokemon, whether it be by ability (one Pokemon setting up sun for fire types or harvest, etc) or Movesets (helping hand + drizzle water spout Kyogre would like to have a word with you). There are so many situations that you don’t account for. Pokemon always win.
if we're taking that into account then helping hand doesn't have priority since priority isn't a thing irl. every move would be based on your speed. also if irl, any spread moves used would also hurt your whole team.
@@TwoBsTwoTsthe thing is we have multi battles so he chose to do singles even though that's not at all what one of every Pokemon versus a billion lions and if you want to take real-world applications Pokemon gets rocks that are alive god a snail that is made out of magma a caterpillar
Pokémon attacks are not ordinary physical actions like a simple bite or scratch; they are imbued with a unique energy system that sets them apart from real-world animal behaviors. Pokémon have the ability to harness mystical energies often referred to as chakra, chi, or elemental energy. These concepts, deeply rooted in various forms of Asian folklore and popular anime like Naruto, Dragon Ball, and The Legend of the Monkey King, emphasize the manipulation of internal energy to produce extraordinary abilities. For instance, the move Bite, categorized as a "Dark-type" attack, goes beyond a physical bite. While it deals physical damage in the game mechanics, its depiction in the Pokémon anime often shows an aura or energy resembling fangs. This energy is created using the Pokémon’s innate "chi" or elemental power, akin to techniques like the Hadoken from Street Fighter. In contrast, a lion from the real world lacks this ability to channel energy or manipulate its aura. A lion’s bite is purely physical and cannot generate the kind of elemental or spiritual energy Pokémon utilize. Similarly, when a Pokémon like Sprigatito uses an attack involving leaves, such as Leafage or Magical Leaf, it’s not hurling ordinary, tangible leaves. Instead, it manipulates "flora energy," which is referred to in the Pokémon universe as Grass-type energy. These "leaves" are condensed forms of energy designed to mimic their physical counterparts, much like how a fireball in martial arts fiction isn't made of literal flames but concentrated energy. If a lion were struck by this attack, it wouldn't simply feel the impact of lightweight leaves. Instead, it would experience the force of highly concentrated elemental energy, which it has no natural defense against. This energy-based nature of Pokémon attacks gives them a distinct advantage over real-world animals. Unlike Pokémon, real animals lack chakra or chi-based mechanisms to shield themselves or counteract such attacks. The result is that these energy-infused moves would inflict far more damage on a real-world creature than their game designation of "neutral" or "super-effective" might suggest. For example, Grass-type energy could disrupt a lion’s physical and metaphysical and spiritual equilibrium, potentially overwhelming it in ways that Pokemon wouldn't even experience. Pokémon attacks, therefore, transcend the physical realm, operating on an entirely different level of power and complexity. And this is only the tip of the iceberg of Pokemon moves and abilities.
You turned the Lions... INTO POKEMON??? That's basically doing 1 BILLION Pokemon Vs 1 of every existing Pokemon SCAM! If this logic were true, humans in the Pokemon universe are also Pokemon
The problem with this question is it is never specified if it is under pokemon battle rules or the rules of nature (free-for-all). In free for all you have to account for things like Surf, Earthquake, Inferno, etc being able to hit many lions at once. Hyper-Beam is basically condensed solar energy fired directly at an enemy, so that's definitely tearing through several lions in a line. Dragon-types that can fly, Psychic, Ghost, and Fairy types subduing/possessing lions to fight other lions. All kinds of variables
I looked into it myself and I am pretty sure that, of all things, Corsola can do it with an OFFENSIVE set and no Leppa berry. (Edit: Dang it. This set just barely does not work reliably, purely because Curse has such low PP and Noble Roar has so much PP. It can still work if certain conditions are met, like the lions having PP maxes on their attacking moves, but probably doesn't in the most likely scenario.) (Might recommend looking into a fast Harvest Trevenant with Power-up Punch, Drain Punch, and Horn Leech. If it can get past the first couple of turns and use Power-Up Punch once or twice, it oneshots lions, and it becomes so incredibly unlikely for it to run out of PP that it might actually be able to defeat a billion lions. Assuming the lions aren't running speed investment, anyway.) Corsola resists Normal, and gets access to both Aqua Ring and Ingrain, as well as speed and attack boosting moves. This set can endlessly OHKO lions with Struggle at plus six: Corsola @ Shell Bell (Only item that can heal you for over 1/8th of your HP a turn) Ability: Hustle (Hustle is actually perfect here since Struggle has perfect accuracy.) Tera Type: Water EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Def Impish Nature (Adamant if lions are defensively invested) IVs: 21 HP (If lions have no HP IVs, need to lower HP so that Struggle does less recoil damage than Shell Bell heals. If they do have HP IVs, then 31 works.) - Rock Polish - Curse - Ingrain - Aqua Ring This set also is capable of getting set up, though it demands avoiding a few flinches and crits from the lions' strongest move (crunch) at the start of the battle. I think the optimal sequence of moves would be Curse -> Ingrain -> Aqua ring -> Curse until +6 defense -> Rock Polish until plus 6 -> burn all PP, using Curse last to make sure you have +6 attack at the end despite Noble Roar. If the lions roll high every time, during the first three turns they would deal 54.2% of Corsola's HP with their strongest move (max 72.1% if offensively invested). And, Corsola's passive healing starts to outpace the lions' damage once it gets to +3 defense. Which means that Corsola would definitely be able to get set up if the lions have no offensive IVs, even if it gets flinched or crit a few times. In the worst case scenario for lion IV investment (max attack and HP), it becomes a lot tighter, as you really don't want a flinch on the first few turns or a crit in the last few. But, it is still doable. After that, the only thing that can break this strategy is if the first lion crits specifically Crunch 4 times in a row (3 times if worst case investment) but that will probably not happen before Crunch runs out of PP. So, could a single Corsola beat a billion lions? In this scenario, it stands a good chance, depending on how lucky it is. But, could 10ish Corsola with this set beat a billion lions? Probably!
A pre-poisoned Poison Heal Gliscor with Agility + Swords Dance + Attacking move + Shell Bell could probably also do it, if you lower its HP IV to 0. If pre-poisoning is allowed. And a bunch of pokemon can probably do it if they can be relied upon to use Recycle. Specifically, a Leppa Berry + Body Press + (defense boosting move) + Recycle + (speed boosting move). Stakataka, Arceus, Mew, Jirachi, probably more. Klefki might also be able to win with a Leppa + Recycle + Draining Kiss + Calm Mind set, maximally physically defensive. It is faster than the lions and only takes 22% from a crit from the strongest possible lion, so it could probably avoid death forever so long as the AI isn't using moves at random
I came wanting to see a pokemon vs lion battle royal, like a million toads vs 1 giant bowser. Instead i got was the feel i was in a conference meeting talking about numbers.
I havent even finished the video and I can tell based on your explanation of how this will work that the Pokemon will lose. The problem isnt necessarily that you turned the Lions into Pokemon like that other commenter said. The biggest problem is that you eliminated every advantage by just going with an extended 1v1 rather than a massive 1,000 vs 1,000,000,000 like it should be. The playing field is not uneven as claimed at the beginning because no matter which choice of logic you choose, the Pokemon have a way to ensure that the lions cannot even touch them. 1. Game rules: Pokemon can use Earthquake and hit literally every single lion at once AND flying type pokemon are untouchable because the Lions cannot hit them and the pokemon do not need to land on the ground because they never exhaust. 2. Pokedex rules: Magcargo is hotter than the sun, the lions wouldn't even be able to react before they vaporized. 3. Lore rules: Arceus is literally god, it could just will the lions out of existence 4. Anime rules: Arceus is still all powerful in the anime, and pokemon also don't have PP, so area of effect attacks (like earthquake) will never run out.
simulation gotta be ragebait, especially bc it’s 1v1s while down a billion in numbers. you’re making moves like earthquake or draco meteor, oblivion wing, all target one instead of the mass.
also giving the outspeeding pokemon that have oneshot moves draco meteor or explosion is kinda like giving all lions the worst moveset they could have thought of
with these rules and mechanics you could have 1 billion magikarp at level 5, with only splash, and the magikarp would still win. At some point the pokemon would run out of PP on all their movies and struggle themselves to fainting
Yes, that is the point. And he still found one way for the Pokémon to win. Also, not really. The lion's speed and ability to do damage was critical to only one Pokémon being able to win. Otherwise, many Pokémon with leftovers probably beats infinite Magicarp.
HOLD ON! STAT CHANGES DON'T CARRY OVER BETWEEN BATTLES! which means this wasn't 1 Billion 1 on 1 battles, this was around 1,000 battles, each for 1 pokemon to fight against a team of millions of lions! You can't say this is 1 on 1 battles, and then not let the stat changes return to normal after each battle. Just switching which pokemon is out in a normal battle will remove stat changes!
hold on. the way it was simulated, the lion team was just an infinite team. after all, it would be easier to code an infinite team than infinite connections. also if the 1 billion lions are indeed splitting up like that, its one continuous battle because if it can only be 1v1 then the lions have to form a team, similar to a lion ladder having to be one lion on top of the other. how else does a queue work??? if the lions are making a line for longevity reasons (like some moves target multiple mons in double battles which buffs pokeon chances), obviously the lions would still be 1 team you greasy ahh fried pickled tomato.
@@TheShadowMaven And that's exactly the problem. He described it as "encountering a wild lion over and over again," not "one pokemon vs a team of 1000 or more lions. He broke his own rules. If he wanted for the lions to all be on a team, is it not reasonable to also have all the pokemon on a team as well? And yet, that's clearly not the case since there's no mention of setup moves like stealth rocks, leech seed, or poison rocks. Also, it's hard to take your argument seriously when you choose to resort to insults.
@@steelhorn2029yeah the important part is he specifically said it would be like wild encounters over and over and then immediately turned around and kept stat debuffs between battles, it bothered me too 😭
Here's the problem with "Game Logic." No one is ever going to agree what that means. The in-game battles are part of Game Logic, but then how do you go about the battle? Do you do what you just did and do multiple singles in a row? Is it a weird horde battle? If it's a horde battle, what can spread moves hit? Do the Pokémon work together or have a trainer? What stats and moves do Lions have? What are the EVs and IVs. Then you have the realization that game logic is more than just those battles. In Legends Arceus, Pokémon can attack outside of battles. Pokédex entries (which Legends Arceus proves are true, btw) are appart of the game and therefore are part of Game Logic. In ORAS, Mega Rayquazua (who doesn't need a trainer to Mega Evolve) destroys an earth destroying asteroid, and Deoxys can survive that. Or in Platinum and PLA, we see Arceus being a god. Those cut scenes are in the game and, therefore, are Game Logic. All this to say, Game Logic is more than just battles, and with true Game Logic, there is much more to consider.
You got one fact wrong. Legends arceus proves that BEHAVIORAL pokedex entries are completely factual. Statistics based pokedex entries are still an overexaggeration. So yes, swablu does pretend that it is a hat, but no, despite being incredibly hot, magcargo is not hotter than the surface of the sun.
@@shaddowofthelost1750 That's not nessissarily true at all. And we have no real proof that's an overexaggeration. Besides, what people fail to realize is that this is a fictional world. Something that is ridiculous to real world standards isn't to the Pokémon world.
@jeremymorris345 yeah, I know it's different from the real world, I mean, the humans there are far more durable and strong than the humans in this world, but even then, magcargo can walk, well, "walk" over metal, rock, and other things without instantly melting or burning them. Other things, like legendaries, are far less exaggerated than others, but even then, it's still stretching things a bit, like yveltal "killing all life when it enters its cocoon" being more of a "killing all life in a 1 kilometer radius when it enters its cocoon". Just because it isn't necessarily true doesn't mean it isn't necessarily false. So let's just accept my stance of "some statistics and feats of power are more exaggerated than others" because it's the stance that makes the most sense out of the nonsensical pokedex entries.
On the other hand, still using in game stats/rules, if we assumed all lions and pokemon were on the field simultaneously, a single Kyogre water spout wipes their entire population in one move, to say nothing of any additional spread moves.
When someone did the math they found that if the Pokemon coordinate and buff each other then a single spread move from basically any Pokemon can kill all the lions a billion times over. If they get to buff each other with priority moves then the damage they put out becomes logarithmic.
Based on your simulation, Alolan exeggutor could solo all the lions with this set (barring a crit/flinch barrage in the first few turns): Exeggutor-Alola @ Leppa Berry Level: 50 Lax Nature Ability: Harvest EVs: 224 HP / 12 Atk / 244 Def / 28 Spe - Trailblaze - Sunny Day - Growth - Giga Drain Even assuming the lions are Jolly, 252 attack and speed EVs, Exeggutor wil outspeed them after 2 trailblazes, and then giga drain's healing will outpace the lions' damage output. and once exeggutor manages to get a sunny day+growth up he oneshots the lions with giga drain. If he then gets another growth up for +4 attack, Trailblaze also oneshots the lions. Approximately 1 billion turns of harvest/giga drain shenanigans later, Exeggutor stands atop 1 billon drained lion corpses 😎
@@Canaris4 Unless I'm mistaken the turn would go like this: giga drain -> lion dies and unnerve switches off -> berry is eaten -> new lion comes in and unnerve is back on. So unnerve wouldn't help the lions at all.
I don't think it makes sense for the simulation to include the ways a Pokemon would behave if it had a trainer. Wild Pokemon don't make the most ideal decisions
@@trikitrikitriki I think this is supposed to be an ideal scenario since the lions are also being put into an ideal scenario technically speaking, also let’s remember all of this are hypothetical scenarios
@@trikitrikitriki my brother in christ Alakazam has an iq of 5000 and can communicate telepathically. -1 Pokémon in fight, +1 expert trainer that can instruct klefky or A-Exeggutor to solo every single lion.
He literally said what this battle actually was at the very beginning. This isn’t one of every Pokémon versus 1 billion lions, this is one of every Pokémon versus one billion Litleo. Of course Pokémon are going to lose. This entire debate comes down to two questions: are you using the lore or are you using the game mechanics. If you’re using the game mechanics, how exactly are you setting up those mechanics? If it’s a billion one on one battles, of course Pokémon are going to lose because you can’t choose to skip turns so they’ll just struggle themselves to death which is an asinine argument. If it’s all Pokémon versus all lions at once in a massive multi battle format, Kyogre would slaughter every single lion in one move with origin pulse. If you’re going off Mystery Dungeon’s rule set (which would actually be the most realistic scenario out of all the options) Pokémon would actually win because they are able to neutral attack and deal damage without using PP limited moves.
This argument is hilarious to me because there’s only one scenario in which the lions are undefeatable and that’s always the only one which the lion fans use: abusing the hell out of the main games’ single and double battle mechanics. ANY other scenario, even the ones he mentioned in this video, result in the Pokémon trouncing. For example: killing Dialga is mutually assured destruction because the fabric of time shatters resulting in the world being paralyzed. Forever. Killing Yveltal is a win for Pokémon because if he dies literally everything on the surface of the planet dies. There’s a lot of Pokémon who would not be on the surface of the planet. You get the gist. The thing I find the funniest though is that even if you put it into single and double battle format: the lions would actually still lose. Pokémon don’t die in the mainline games, they feint. After 24 hours, the Pokémon is recovered and ready to go if it’s in the wild. That doesn’t apply to the lions who, if they lose a battle, actually die. So in actuality, every Pokémon so long as it can deal damage to the lions would eventually be able to solo simply by feinting, resting, and then going back in.
@alphastronghold715 and the ghosts couldn't even faint by anything other than themselves so they would last the longest by far before fainting the only version of pokemon that die are Manga and these lions don't want to mess with them they are the strongest form of pokemon
Well yes it would probably be a better way although your moves also have limited PP in Mystery Dungeon and the only attack you can perform infinitely is a standard attack. So again, not that realistic. Also the pokemon would get bullied as soon as they don't have moves that can hit multiple targets. Moreover, Mystery Dungeon is also turned based in the end.
Actually, even with game mechanics, leppa berry + recycle or harvest literally destroys, plus putting stealth rock, spikes, and toxic spikes and then just infintely switching out regenerator pokemon also wins
@@kyurei4478 Mystery dungeon is turn based but functions more as if everything all happens at once rather than one person followed by one person. As for the limit to move PP, that is realistic because it signifies stamina (same with the hunger mechanic). Most Pokémon would not be able to fight indefinitely, but moves like discharge or Roar of Time would very quickly even the odds, even with the limited move pools. It would also be able to actually simulate a billion lions all being in one room provided you have the computational power for such a large scale sim as well as simulate intelligence as IQ skills are a thing.
@@unanchoRED1 Too bad lions beat Pokemon when the pokemon are not fighting Lions and are instead fighting 1 Billion Litleos... oh wait that's a pokemon-
This guy is doing everything in his power to not talk about Lucario or other fight type running leppa berry, recycle, drain punch, bulk up, filler. Or a grass type running cotton spore, giga drain, recycle, leppa berry, growth. Or any combination of draining move, recycle, boosting move, leppa berry. There are specific rules on smogon against creating infinite battles, and if you break them (which you could easily do inside the available framework of the game) you can prolong any series of moves into infinity.
Even this would work, which i find fun. You don't even need to kill anything Klinklang would win! Clear body prevents crunch defense drops, base 90 speed lets it outspeed, high base bulk makes it so with max hp max defense and +def nature it takes 24% from max roll crunch crit meaning it WILL live 4 turns, leppa berry gives it PP, recycle gives it infinite PP, rest gives it infinite health and from there it just sits. It can singlehandedly PP stall every single one of the billion lions without needing harvest.
@@thatguyhanzo3468 I’ve got another comment here somewhere but prankster Klefki with sub, cm, draining kids and recycle is the lion killing goat. Literally cannot be touched and can obliterate everything in its path.
Finally, an intelligent comment. I hate the people trying to argue it's unfair to the lions to use in-game Pokémon, and the lions shouldn't get Pokémon stats and moves blah blah. Here we have a comment that gives the lions their fair stats and still beats them. In game. Nicely done.
Stakataka @ Leppa Berry Ability: Beast Boost EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD Bold Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Rest - Iron Defense / Substitute is actually better, yea. - Recycle - Body Press The lions will literally never break through this thing. 252 Atk Litleo Bite vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stakataka on a critical hit: 28-34 (8.5 - 10.4%) -- possibly the worst move ever They'd have to consistantly crit+flinch more than 10 times in a row for Stakataka to just fall, else it can just heal right back up with Rest. Edit: Yea, with Substitute over Iron Defense, you can avoid flinches and Beast boost gives you the defense boosts anyways.
While you are wrong most of the time, in these parameters the lions absolutely win. In almost every other interpretation of the situation, Pokémon win EASILY. I appreciate the time and effort that went into this video though. Good stuff.
Good thing to add is that by "the pokemon didn't know the lions would fight" they meant we just decided to take the moves they started with when we caught them or are supposed to catch them
I like your real life simulation in a game unlike the dummies who use logic like "uh all pokemon vs lions mean, they'd all be stat boosted to knock lions off the observable universe" or "uh going by pokedex entry, machamp alone can yeet all lions into the sun". This is objective, measurable and repeatable.
If we're talking about numbers and stats instead of canonical power, then the lions should be Typeless (or ???) and should have moves that deal Typeless damage as they do not comprehend the type mashup of pokemon, making it a neutral playing field for everyone.
After looking through the comments, and assuming that the pokemon have the abolity to work as a team. The optimal strategy would be the following. 1. Have Pokemon set up all possible field hazards 2. Have pokemon with extreme speed and baton pass get to +6 speed. Repeat this with pokemon with every boostable stat (including evasion) to get a +6 to every stat. 3. Baton pass all these stat changes to a Blissey holding a leppa berry with Max Health EVs, IVs, and a health boosting nature. Bissey should have Recycle, Substitute, hardboiled, and draining kiss. 4. Set up substitue. With a +6 speed boost and a -1 on the lions (sticky web), it is garaunteed to outspeed. 5. Use hardboiled if low health. 6. Use recycle if low pp. 7. Use draining kiss if you have high hp and pp. 8. Substitue whenever it gets broken. That's it. This blissey will survive indefinitely while the lions die from poison (poison spikes). Flinches aren't possible since the Blissey would outspeed. And it would take 2 turns minimum to destroy the substitute. And even then, it would take 6 turns minimum for them to kill Blissey assuming they crit every time. If they don't crit, it will literally take roughly 4-6 attacks just to break through substitute. Keep in mind she would also have +6 evasion meaning she has a 66.67% chance of outright dodging all attacks.
Actually any pokemon with a leppa berry, recycle, a healing move and attacking move, or a draining move, substitute, and potentially a stat boosting move like bulk up, calm mind, or iron defense becomes immortal and defeats 1 billion lions without ever falling below half health, and the last two moves aren't even necessary either, just recommended.
The real problem here is that these aren't lions, they're lion-like Pokemon. But also, yeah, game mechanics Pokemon is the weakest interpretation of Pokemon possible. This isn't how many lions can all the Pokemon fight, this is how many litleos can one Pokemon fight assuming game rules. Which, fair, is an interesting argument in itself, but not the actual question.
@@im50yearsold They can breathe freaking fire. How is that weak. You know how they talk about super effective? Everyone on earth is weak to fire attacks.
@@im50yearsold Even if we ignore poke-dex shit and most of the random lore about various pokemon, just using their raw abilities they are still monsters. Celesteela is 30 feet tall and made of pure metal. Hell, most Ultra-Beasts are terrifying. Even beyond that, you STILL have things like Steelix.
It doesn't really matter if you balance the lions into pokemon hybrids stat-wise, the main flaw is it's game logic. This is literally the ONLY argument you can make for lions. If you have this battle in the real world, with Pokémon vs 1B real lions, Pokémon win. If you have the battle in the Pokémon verse, be it 1B real lions or 1B lion Pokémon counter parts. Pokémon win The only way the lions win, is if you apply the game mechanic logic, which is specifically balanced for playability not the actual "lore"/"cannon" It's like playing a DBZ game, and picking Yamcha and beating the computer AI Goku and saying "see Yamcha beats Goku" He doesn't, that's just the game balanced to be somewhat fair for the players, to keep all characters at least somewhat playable.
Earth has like 8 billion humans, presumably, the Pokémon world is too. And a Pokémon like Kyogre, can destroy the entire world with a severe flood and rainfall, and it can even fly! No way in heck a 1 billion lions would win in a more realistic battle!! 😭
I feel like the answer is just: 1. Lions win in normal game combat. 2. Pokemon win in a field battle where something like earthquake just hits everything. 3. Pokemon win going off of pokedex entries and nothing else.
I don't think there's any scenario where lions win since you either assume trainer pokemon in which case you can build a winning set, or you assume wild pokemon in which case PP isn't a problem and Koraidon will never lose
@@motherlove8366 They do win in an in-game scenario (and technically in an actual irl scenario), I kinda liked the comparison of a Lion to a Litleo, it makes a lot more sense that a irl animal is remade inside a Pokemon game than the reverse. They all say "what if Pokemon were in real life against lions?", Pokemon are in real life, just look at your cartridge, make a living dex and chuck it at a single lion, see how well they do in real life. Plus the dex isn't at all accurate in lore anyway, proof being simply magcargo, no one would feasibly be able to live in its proximity, let alone capture it and use it in-universe, yet they do use him and no one is dying. In lore/anime move types are also inconsistent, considering that Pikachu can hit ground types with electric moves, Ghost types might not have their full immunities either.
I saw this as a pokemon defender, with game logic pokemon are so nerfed. When i saw the goat tropious I knew hed win. There are so many factors when deciding something liek this but i appreciate all teh time and effort you put into this. Finally as always, another banger by Astroid Videos
Pokemon win in every logic. The only time Lions 'win' is when you have to jump through several logic hoops to restrict it extremely heavily in the lions favor. Even then lions get destroyed by a leppa berry.
@@NatePhan Where are the pokemon getting a leppa berry and how are they learning recycle? Do they have a trainer? The trainer was never mentioned in the question.
I would like to say that this is biased the lions had to have planned this in someway why don’t the Pokémon get to also Pokémon not fighting together is so bad for them because support Pokémon are horrible and many of the “strong” Pokémon actually rely on support pokemon
Dude using in game logic only it was already proved that just about 40 pokemons would defeat any amount of lions you want to put against them... because of the nature of double and triple battles and moves that hit the whole enemy team.
A: Big AOE moves that pokemons have like tsunamis or literally necrozmas "taking all light from the universe and shooting it" would only hit one lion. This is an approach that benefits the side with simply higher numbers if a tsunami only hits 1 lion B: you turned it into a turn based game and assigned the lions types and moves, you made it 1 billion pokemon vs other pokemon. C: You went based off the game not the lore, while the debate really is "but hes a god" vs "but theres a billion lions" rather than "in the games hes weaker". Overall, in a simulation that would mimic an all out fight between 1 billion simultaneously alive and independant lions vs one of every pokemon capable of doing what the lore of pokemon says, the lions just stand no chance.
I personally love how everyone forgets how some pokemon have multiple forms, for example there are 4,294,967,296 different variations of Spinda and 8 trillion if you count shinys
Dawg i think his computer would crash if he tried to simulate all of that 😂 plus most spindas would die unless they all have some crazy tech. And they don’t technically count as unique forms in the pokedex so its sorta bending the rules a bit. But if 4 Spindas can take down 1 lion, they’re on pace to win the war by themselves
This video has been a LONG time in the making, I hope y'all enjoy! Thanks again to Manscaped for sponsoring: Get 20% Off + Free International Shipping with promo code ASTROID or visit manscaped.com/astroid #ad
First
I don’t want to label you as a furry just yet… buuut
You did not have to choose between single battles and "extended triple battles". You could've just done horde battles.
How long did the simulation take to run? and were you running them in parallel?
I hope Patterz reacts to this video!
the biggest problem with your simulation is that you turned the lions into pokemon. It stopped being pokemon vs 1 billion lions, it became the pokemon vs 1 billion pokemon.
Its probably the best shot lions have at winning considering if we went by real world logic they all just insta lose to mons like yveltal, magcargo, gardevoir, and even deoxys/rayquaza that can camp in outer space. Gonna need a lion rocket ship to reach them
@@Flapjack3734 yea it's almost like the lions don't have a snowball's chance in hell.
If they have to take away every advantage that pokemon have and strap them with all of the disadvantages caused by game mechanics, while also giving the lions every buff you can justify to yourself in order for them to have a possibility of success then you've kind of already declared the pokemon the winners.
@@jypsridicThe lions have an amazing matchup in their favor the pokemon are doing nothing to them 💯
You raise a good question. 1 billion stunfisk vs every pokemon
@@Flapjack3734 this is using game mechanics, not lore
its kinda funny how you gave the lions pokemon stats, pokemon moves, pokemon abilities, and made sure they could hit every type- hey wait a minute…
Exactly. It's annoying. It's like he only cared about getting the video look good and didn't care about making sure the simulation (the whole point of the video) was done well.
Sponsored by Big Lion
Plus, pokemon using moves to go for fastest lion knockout rather than sustainability.
@@gigas115
100%
Any pokemon with a damaging move, a healing move and recycle has the potential to go infinite (if its defence is high enough).
Give it +6 attack,defence, and evasion from baton pass to minimize the impact of flinch chain RNG, let the 4th move be substitute for the same reason, let the pokemon fight the same way as the lions (one after another) so max entry hazards can be set up so incoming lions will have 2/3 health and toxic poison and I think it’s likely that 1 blissey could beat all the lions.
Add on all the other back up pokemon and it's probably certain that pokemon win.
@@TopOfAllWorldsUh, no. What do you want, realistic lions? Lions _ACTUALLY EXIST_ so one easily solos every copy of Pokémon since data can't fight back.
Lions are also stronger than humans, who created the fiction of Pokémon.
If you don't make lions Pokémon like, they break the rules of the Pokémon universe, and it's a stomp.
So what's your pick? One lion solos, or lions have Pokémon stats?
came here expecting charisse’s and rayquaza to be like flying over a billion lions shooting shit out there mouth, instead the lions became pokémon and waited in a single file line to attack
lowk i just though a dugtrio would dig a hole and then a machamp would grab a gyrados and spin it in circles by its tail and then gyrados uses hyper beam and disentegrrates all the lions
lions aren't even that smart lol they'd kill each other waiting for their turn
> Says it's like infinite wild encounters
> Stats don't reset after each KO, recharge turns still happen
I don’t think that would’ve changed much.
@@lazyspade1559 It does a lot for pokemon that need to recharge pp
Pick a lane, lions lose.
@@danteloparco6708 or pokemon where their stats lower after their moves
I want to like your comment. But I like the number
you see, despite the fact that you state that it's not a pokemon battle, you simulate it as if it's a pokemon battle
Probably the only fair method, as using real life lions vs lore-based pokemon capabilities would be a billion lions dying for sport and not for challenge.
@@Sairiuithe debate isn’t about CHALLENGE, it’s about power scaling.
@@2yoyoyo1Unplugged The debate has never even been about power scaling too, but about how much you can nerf the pokemons while screaming about how it would be stupid to believe the pokemons should have the thing they're nerfing, duh!
Like take PPs for example, they're a thing in the game and sorta in the anime too, but wild pokemons always have max PPs which means you can realistically think pokemons have ways to naturally restore their PPs, meaning they should be able to leave the fight, rest a bit and restore their PPs- making the entire argument pointless, right? WRONG! Because OF COURSE they can't leave the fight to rest and OF COURSE you're gonna have to strictly adhere to pokemons having a limited set of PPs, heh!
The Pokedex? It's made up, of course. Forget that in every generations it's touted as being a very accurate encyclopedia that they gave first to talented trainers and then to literally any fucking kids as an app on their phone, it's OBVIOUSLY all a lie! A few pokedex entries being hard to accept OBVIOUSLY means all pokedex entries are to be discarded!
Lions? Well OF COURSE their bite is the same as the move bite! Just, forget the fact about those few pokemons with jaws and teeth who learn neither crunch nor bite, like, let's say, half the fucking gen 1 roster.
Pokemons have stats and Litleo/Pyroar is a lion pokemon, so obviously lions have the same stats. Discard that Pokemons canonically have some weird form of energy that powers both their moves and their bodies, of course. It's just a meaningless detail.
And in game, Earthquake never managed to hit more than [insert number depending on which game the person talking played]. So OBVIOUSLY EQ would only hit 2/3/5 lions max.
Canonical abilities *as shown in game* like being able to push an entire town to sleep, isolate a town from the very fabric of space and time, flood or dry the whole fucking world, destroy a meteor, make a cloning machine, create portals to other worlds, *travel* to other worlds, fuck up the weather? I made sure to mix up both anime and game feats to make sure if we discarded one as less canon than the other we'd still have material but NOPE, it doesn't count! Why? Because fuck you I guess, haha!
So, yes, sure, if you remove the pokemons' pokedex descriptions, canonical feats, ability to flee the battle to rest and recover their energy, higher-than-animals intelligence, drive for battle, and nerf their moves, all while boosting the lions' cohesion, staying power, and offensive capabilities, then the fight is in favour of the lions, who the fuck would have guessed?
@@Sairiui the simulation here was also just wrong and very much 1 of every pokemon vs 1 billion litleo, all pokemon at the same level (which in and of itself doesn't make sense logically)
@@whitefri2z The earthquake thing and disregarding feats irks me, because the mere fact that earthquake has never hit more than five pokemon at once due to the game's limitations does not mean it can't hit more, and in fact it's pretty common sense that even if a gamemode did come out where you could battle 100 or more pokemon at once for some reason, it's safe to say moves like earthquake, or surf that literally spawns a tidal wave, would be able to hit every pokemon on screen regardless.
The entire debate is basically: How much can you nerf Pokémon for them still to win
While also pretending Lions are a hive mind and work in unison.
primal groudon/primal kyogre easily clears 1 billion
yeah like no one in their right mind would actually think the lions would win
@@ren_pogiy veltal about to feast
True. Yveltal could fly directly into the lion army, get defeated after draining as much as its can, then it goes into its cocoon form, eliminating all lions in roughly a cubic mile @Bobboerba
I was expecting registeel to have KO’ed the most lions, but I spit out my drink when you said “gave his own life”, because I KNEW it meant he would explode 😂
Yeah iron defense + body press would have gone hard, but I guess he wanted to pull an iron giant
I knew it was explosion the second he showed up! xD
@@seejoshrun1761 suuuupermaaaan
And if that explosion was against real lions, this would make Oppenheimer look like he was playing with toys.
Giving the Lions stats comperatively to a Pokemon does NOT work.
When Pokemon use flames lightning and other magic and have actual lore where some can move or even eat mountains.
Even if you give lions ingame stats you need to compair how a lion would work vs a typical pokemon.
Where my initial assumption is that a lions stat would be bellow 50 base stat TOTAL.
And thats HIGH BALING THE LION!!!
For example giving the Lion a attack stat over 70 and even giving it the strong jaw ability just because it can scratch cars?
Aron has an attack stat of 70, and that thing litterally EATS RAILROAD TRACKS AND CARS thats just his meal. Aron doesnt even have a Jaw strong enough to get Strong jaw and I dont know if you have seen railroad tracks but that is just having full metal bars for dinner!!!
You need several lions to even be able to damage a car with their biteforce "Which is impressive in the human world" lets stand start consuming it as if it was a regular meal. But it has strong jaw and a higher attack stat then Aron? Just because something is strong in the human world does not mean its strong in the Pokemon world. A lions biteforce within the Pokemon Universe is NOTHING! When a little baby Aron can OUT Perform a freakin lion.
Just for Comparison of a Pokemon that does get Strong Jaw, Drednaw who can Sheer off Metal pipes and Crush a boulder with ease in a single bite.
Lions dont come even remotely Close. They dont even have a fraction of the biteforce of a Pokemon without Strong jaw.
Just a little bit of extra information, Bite force of a lion tops 1000 psi. The biteforce needed to Sheer of metal. 60.000 psi.
And that is not even the peak of drednaws bite strenght. vs the absolute peak of a lions.
Like Pokemon are insane creatures and giving a lion an base stat total that is comperatively to a Pokemon that has the ability to control fire.
Is not a fair comparison.
That is how powerfull Pokemon are comperatively vs real animals, Even a caterpie one of the weakest bugs can tackle a human meters away in to a tree.
A Lion doesnt even come close to having that much of a force to tackle with. Better said AN ELEPHANT or HIPPO might not even reach that strenght at full speed.
Caterpie did it from a standstill without runup.
That means an Elephant or a Hippo have an attack stat of below 30?
Giving a lion Litleos base stat total is just putting the lions on a spectrum that they dont have or never will reach.
So for the next bit I dont know if you mention this in your video i refuse to watch it after 5 min i realised you did 0 research on this topic.
If you use gameplay mechanics, you didnt even need to boost lions power and there is no reason to calculate anything because Pokemon will autolose, Every single time.
Just for the sole reason that PP exist every pokemon will eventually run out of moves and then struggle to death. WAY WAY before you run out of Lions.
Even if you have a Lion that has each stat in 1. And every pokemon can oneshot every single lion. There are not enough Pokemon/PP moves available to kill every Lion.
Also last but not least several animals that have higher biteforce then a lion.
Crocodiles have a bite force of maximum of 5000 psi 5x higher then a lions.
Hippotamus have a biteforce of maximum 1800 PSI which is also quite a bit higher then Lions.
Even Hyenas have a average higher biteforce score then Lions with a 1100 Psi...
They aint even the strongest Feline bite force cuss a Tiger has a biteforce of 1200 psi...
NO CLUE where you got strong jaw from.
That just shows the lack of research for this video. Im sorry but set your standards higher please.
I looked up this information in a couple of min.
To be fair, yes, the video makes no sense, but Pokédex descriptions even less so. Or at the very least, they are completely inaccurate to in-game stats.
Like, Machamp is stated to be able to literally hurl trains around and move mountains but its base Atk is 130, whilst Hoppip’s is 35.
Does that mean 4 Hoppips can move a mountain? Those guys are literally everywhere, how can a world where a handful of them can move a mountain even have a consistent geography anymore??
@@KoriKeiji They have to balance the game is the issue, you realistically have to nerf the pokemon. Just like in Dragonball games. Can Chiatzu beat a full power Jiren? no! But he can in the games because they are more balanced for the sake of the player.
@@DakumunDahBat Yes but the problem is Pokémon is not taking information from an already existing IP and rebalancing it for gameplay’s sake.
The same people who balanced the stats are the ones who wrote the Pokedex. I’m not saying give Machamp 15 million Atk, I’m saying don’t write shit in your Pokedex that so blatantly makes no sense whatsoever.
‘Cause this ain’t even a slight exaggeration, this is like “This Pokémon is many times stronger than the strongest nuclear bomb ever built” and then it literally scales with the pigeons you find just outside your house
Ok but a billion lions is a LOT of lions
@KoriKeiji tbf I've always considered pokemon stats to be more exponential than linear as you're suggesting.
to be fair you made every single lion a Littleo, and it's hella unfair to give the pokemon game stats then boost the lions irl stats to stats beyond that, which made it go from 1 billion lions against around 1K pokemon to 1 billion littleos against around 1K pokemon
And the litleo have optimal stat spreads
I think it's kind of Fair since it's the stats of a baby lion Pokemon representing adult lions.
@@TheLeftySwordsman It's the stats of a flaming baby lion, ergo not really fair XD.
@@DakumunDahBat even if it were a sunkern it wouldn't matter, it's just too many.
People also forget there's actually probably hundreds of thousands if not more pokemon assuming we take how many there are in the lore rather than just 1 of each
The problem with giving lions a moveset is the fact that a normal lion won't be dealing dark type damage if it bites something. Like pokemon can bite food and other things but still not know the attack bite. So shedinja would be untouchable and good luck fighting a ghost
How do you think the move bite works then? Because I'd say it's just a bite that's intended to hurt an opponent. I think lions can do that pretty easily
@@Splinter-ge9pf then you try biting a ghost and tell me how effective it is. Like I said pokemon can bite things but not be able to even learn the attack. meaning the move bite has dark elemental energy in the attack. Lions are not pokemon so their bite won't have that dark elemental energy. which means they can't even touch ghost type pokemon.
@@Elysium.S fym "dark energy" dark literally meant "evil/bad" in original Japanese
I'm pretty sure a lion biting your face off is pretty bad
Ghosts also aren't real, so they obviously work differently to our understanding of them. Hell, have YOU tried biting a ghost? For all we know it might work
@@Elysium.S it makes since. like if a lion pounces on something I don't think it's going to deal bug type damage
@@Splinter-ge9pf in that case why hasn't any human in the pokemon universe tried using moves that they could "use." again their bite won't be dealing dark damage because they're not pokemon. if anything all their attacks should be considered normal type
How polite of the lions to wait in single file lines
How polite of ultra necrozma choosing not to vaporize millions of lions a second.
How polite of kyogre not to click water spout
Spread moves would instantly ohko all the lions if they weren't in a single battle
How polite of the pokemon to also wait in single file lines
@@devlindysqyz6345 since when could it do that!?!? Just because someone is strong doesn’t mean it can vaporize a million lions! Also, why is it an ultra necrozma? You can’t just make up that you get the Pokémon in its strongest form. I can’t give the lions mounted turrets, why do you get to?
I’m going to be honest. I’m all for team Lion, but there are so many issues with simulating this. The first of them being, Lions don’t have a “type.” Their bite isn’t the same bite as the dark type move “bite.” Ghosts would absolutely be immune to a lion. Full stop. That also means I would say that ghost moves would affect lions, fighting moves would not be super effective, and lions wouldn’t get stab or a type boost to their moves. It would be a simple straight damage.
Also, I think the size of the Mon and what it’s made of play a role in this as well. We have literal boulders and mountains as Pokemon. A lion’s bite would do next to nothing. I’m not convinced that 100 lions all attacking at the same time could kill a golem. I’m just not. Like, they might be able to bite its legs off or something, but unless golem actually bleed and have the ability to bleed out, then that’s ALL they could do. Meanwhile, rollout doesn’t require legs and would eventually kill the lions.
Another thing is explosion damage. When you showed the registeel exploding, it made me think about my main issue with this, and that’s that it’s not on a battlefield where everyone is fighting at once. Explosion on a battlefield would be so much more catastrophic to the lions if Registeel went into the middle of 1,000 lions and just exploded. That would 100% work and it would take all of them out. Being on a full battlefield might also be in the lion’s favor because they have the numbers to overwhelm so many Pokemon. Like, if it’s not faster than the lions, they wouldn’t even get an attack off.
So I think I talked myself into a different opinion. I think this battle would consist of lions killing everything that isn’t unbitable like ghosts and mountains and boulders and icebergs and steel buildings or whatever… and then all of those mons could just exploded or something to kill as many as possible. So I think it would be an insane battle, but Pokemon would come out on top, unless the Pokemon use up all their PP.
If they don’t have the PP to finish, the Pokemon would struggle themselves to death, but at least I think what I’m imagining would be a fairer battle
I agree that the simulation is not done well, but we can't both ignore type chart and claim it applies at the same time. Lions either obey Pokemon typing and therefore are hitting with Bite to do Dark-type damage, or they're Typeless in which case they still hit Ghost-types (as proven by Struggle).
Ultimately the whole thing is impossible to simulate because you have to select some level of logic to work off and Pokemon logic contradicts itself around every corner.
@ I’m not applying the type chart to the lions at all because they aren’t pokemon. I’m applying real world physics. You let me know when a lion can bite a ghost in real life. That’s the main property of ghosts. You can’t touch them. A Pokémon ghost is not the same as a real world ghost. A lion cannot bite something that doesn’t have something tangible to bite. It has nothing to do with the type chart. It’s just real world physics applied to the lion.
“Typeless” is still pokemon logic. I’m not applying pokemon logic to real world animals at all. Lion’s don’t have a type at ALL. It’s not that they are the “typeless” type. It’s just, can a lion bite a ghost? No. So a pokemon that is a ghost, is completely immune to a lion’s bite. Unless the argument is that pokemon ghost types aren’t actual ghosts and that they are physical beings. Which, I disagree with heavily, but at least that’s an argument.
You are claiming that ghost pokemon would behave in the same way a "real" ghost would, but are saying that a real lion would not behave in the same way a pokemon lion would, which is an inconsistent argument.
Ghost pokemon are based on our fictional ghosts the same way a lion pokemon would be based off a real lion. Ghosts aren't real so it's pointless to argue IRL ghost vs lions, but in Pokemon, lions and ghosts coexist, so that is what makes sense.
@ Ghosts aren’t real, but there is a consistent consensus on certain traits that ghosts have. Which is different from the pokemon world. Ghosts do not have tangible matter. We cannot touch them, and we largely cannot see them. They can move through walls and objects as they please and it takes quite a bit of energy for them to interact with the physical world. We are in agreement that a lion could not bite a ghost in real life even if ghosts were real, right?
So the only plausible way that a lion could bite a ghost type pokemon is if your argument is that a pokemon like Gastly isn’t actually a gaseous ghost form, but rather a physical entity that just has a ghost type label. And I disagree with that, because there are plenty of examples of actual ghost pokemon that are based on our mythical consensus on ghosts in the real world. There is no way a lion is physically capable of biting a shuppet or a misdreavus, for example. These are obviously not physical entities. On top of that, Shedinja’s ability only allows it to be hit by super effective moves, and because lions don’t have a type and don’t have the same bite as the dark type bite, they also wouldn’t be able to bite shedinja
@@PtylerBeats you are saying that ghosts are different than Pokemon ghosts, but also saying that because a lion wouldn't be able to bite a ghost, it would also not be able to bite a ghost pokemon. This line of reasoning makes no sense. You either have to say that ghosts and pokemon are comparable, or not comparable.
Your main argument to explain why a lion wouldn't be able to bite a ghost pokemon, is because a lion would not be able to bite a real ghost. To make this conclusion, you have to assume that real ghosts would have the same properties as a ghost pokemon. We already know this is not true, since ghost pokemon are clearly affected by physical moves, bite included.
So you truly cannot apply the logic of an interaction between a real ghost and a real lion, to a pokemon ghost and a real lion. We also cannot compare pokemon ghost vs pokemon lion with real ghost vs real lion, since the outcomes are obviously different. We either have to imagine a ghost pokemon brought into the real world, or a real lion brought into the pokemon world. I think bringing a lion into the pokemon world (and giving it pokemon properties) makes a lot of sense and is straightforward to analyze.
Everyone's debating the logistics of the fight and meanwhile 3 minutes in before he even explains how it'll go down i'm like "what the fuck do you mean NO animal has topped this bite force, have you entirely forgotten about crocodilians, sharks, hippos, orcas and probably FUCKIN DINOSAURS ???"
Almost the comment I was looking for, but you forgot tigers, the other cats who bite way harder. Like way harder.
@@craigyeah1052 Oh absolutely, but i mainly meant the animals that bite MAGNITUDES harder than any feline, can't compete with orcas at nearly 20000 psi
And then there's the actual King Of Bite: Hyenas!
bro was all over the place w this one
Pokemon fans never seen a real lion or something like i see some videos where lion and tigger can kill anuthing
Ultra Necrozma literally destroyed an entire universe. The idea that he can only manage fighting 17 lions is ridiculous
Not to mention... HOW are the lions even gonna get to him?? he flys! xD
Every flying type (and several other psychic or levitate) pokemon have an insane match up against them; there's a reason the "lion ladder" comes up in people's arguments, it's cause without it the lions literally can't win! xD
@@ninjablade2 this argument isn't even about if a billion lions could beat all the pokemon (they can) anymore, it's about people having a good time vs idiots wasting their time theorizing about fake monster "gods" that can be beat by a single red and white ball.
@@vincenth.8709 "theorizing about fake monster "gods" that can be beat by a single red and white ball"
Is such an insane bad faith representation of the facts; applying in game logic to a theoretical situation, let alone discrediting a literal god level creature because there was a way found to capture them (and somehow thinking that matters when considering their raw power vs a bunch of lions) is simply trying anything to discredit the massive advantage the pokemon side has
Pokemon can create fissures in the earth, spatial dimension rifts, they can straight up send you into an reverse dimension, let alone the fact that... many of them can fly and the lions can't!
Just Deoxys and Rayquaza alone could chill in the upper stratosphere/in orbit and rain shit down for days and days on end; we never see them eat and Deoxys has shown it has no need for breathing
all of this is without getting into the rulers of time and space! Or the progenitor of earth!
You said "it's about people having a good time vs idiots wasting their time theorizing" as if there are not people theorizing *literal lion ladders* to deal with the pokemon that fly, as if both sides are not theorizing; you do not speak for everyone and i'd thank you if you have your own opinions to keep them as such, your own and nobody elses
The pokemon win
@@ninjablade2 see but to an extent i think the person has a good point, anyone that says the lions win is literally just fucking around, trolling. They know the lions don't win but it's really fun to just repeat "1 billion is a lot of lions tho"
If anyone takes the question seriously, the pokemon win hands down, but everyone on the side of the lions knows that, so they just decide to not take the question seriously.
@@ninjablade2 you see Lion ladder is actually fun, saying Pokemon automatically win because they have magcargo is like the annoying kid on the playground who says his superpower is that he beats everyone else’s powers
Bro massively upscaled lions to pokemon levels and then proceeded to act like real world lions are that powerful
You forget just how powerful lions actually are. Pokemon SHOULD be scared of how dangerous and ferocious lions could be. Many Pokemon are based off of animals, after all. So you're argument is incredibly invalid.
@@Sambrostar not arceus, big steel type pokemon, and most legendaries with moves than can wipe out thousands of lions in seconds
@Sambrostar Piplup is capable of generating enough force to wipe out a town with 1 move (whirlpool calc).
You could get me the most roided out, tanky, damage resistant lion on planet earth today, and it still wouldn't have enough durability to survive more than one move for a most pokemon. Nor would it have the AP to even fucking damage most of them.
Add into that AoE on most of these moves and 1 billion lions isn't a challenge for the pokemon roster, it's target practice.
@@thatguyonyoutube2063 If piplup could destroy a town quickly enough before it could be attacked, then sure, but a Lion would quickly pounce on it before it even became a threat.
I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion that a lion couldn't hurt a single Pokemon, but I assume it's based on imagination, not logic. Unless all Pokemon's skin and bone structure were to be made of literal adamantium (which it isn't), then that claim is wrong. In fact, Lions have enough bite force to crush a car, as explained in the video. If that's the case, steel types can be beaten just as easily as any other type.
@@Sambrostar Couldn't find the profile on VsBattle wiki about piplup but could find one for torchic.
Torchic durability scales too SMALL CITY LEVEL.
Torchic has LESS defence then Piplup thus we can conclude that Piplup's durability upscales Torchic's Small city level durability.
Just for fun I looked up what pokemon has the lowest defence stat, turns out chancy. It's VSbattle wiki has it's durability at building level. As in it can survive an attack that would wipe out a standard sized building.
Oh did I mention the fact that Shuckle, the slowest pokemon by stats (who is thus by definition upscaled by all other pokemon in terms of speed) is MASSIVELY HYPERSONIC+
So assuming you're not about to tell me Lions are capable of Levelling your average apartment complex with relative ease or have somehow surpassed the sound barrier.
There, the logic you assumed didn't exist because you couldn't fathom basic power scaling. I hope this teaches you to actually do your fucking research before accusing someone else of delusion.
ive never seen someone miss the mark so bad in my life, this is not every pokemon fighting 1 billion lions, this is every pokemon having 1 billion individual battles with another pokemon. The point is that there are pokemon that the lions can never even damage, as well as AoE abilities that would level every single lion on the battle field. Dont ever show up on my home page again thank you :)
This is objectively one of the least likely ways a fight between every Pokémon and a billion lions would go down 😂
Yes but it's still fun
Ah yes, because turn based combat is how we battle in real life. It's a game, stop overthinking it.
@@xcwarriori dont think you can read pal
That's actually true. That's probably the most measurable way though.
@@xcwarrior that's the problem, the debate isn't game mechanics.
It's 1B lions vs all pokemon.
Enforcing game mechanics is like playing a DBZ game, picking Yamcha and then beating the Goku AI and saying "See Yamcha solo's goku"
He clearly doesn't, that's just the game balanced to be somewhat fair for the players, to keep all characters at least somewhat playable.
We all know how that fight would ACTUALLY go down
The logic of this video was "what if we brought the lions in the pokemon games" I'm on the side of "what if we brought the pokemons in the real world" (no pps no stats no turns)
Going by anime real time combat..... lions would be even more screwed.
So I'm going to hide In my nuclear fallout shelter and pray to God a charizard doesn't rip out the latch
@@Thunder01528 a charizard is the least of your worries lmao
jokes on you
CHOICE SCARF WATER SPOUT
Magikarp solos our world we have no answer to splash.
wolfe already did the math on a theoretical battle where all pokemon and lions on the field at the same time and worked out that kyogre and support pokemon one shot all the lions with absolutely no contest
While I do think the pokemon still win, all damaging AoE moves only hit the opposing opponent and the allies next to them. We know this from triple battles.
(any ghost type with recycle + damage move wins 1v1000000000 easy.)
@@Jawsome-ou9ke Horde battles are where Wolfe took the logic from. The billion lions would be more like a horde than an organized 3v3 battle.
@@norock_ Horde battles have 6 mons, and are positioned as if your mon was the centre mon in a triple battle. AoE moves can only hit pokemon opposite, adjacent, and diagonal pokemon with a limiting distance of 1. At most 1 move can hit 9 if we extrapolate from horde/triple battles, but that's still no where near enough to hit all lions
@@Jawsome-ou9ke aoe moves hit everyone in a horde battle
@@norock_ So does the middle pokemon in a triple battle.
Many people have already pointed out the many flaws in this simulation. But for the sake of it, I decided to figure out what the least number of things you'd need to change about it for pokemon to win, and the answer is basically that you only need to make it a double battle.
If it's one double battle in which both sides have the whole team in reserve (1 billion lions vs all 1000 or whatever pokemon), you can set up an infinite combo as follows:
Lead with Exeggutor-A + typhlosion, equipped with a leppa berry. Typhlosion protects turn 1 while exeggutor skill swaps harvest to Typhlosion. The only fail chance for the whole set up is if exeggutor gets flinched on this turn - the lions can't kill a max defense exeggutor even with 2 crits + crunch def drop. Once that's done, just switch every turn between 2 drought mons (like ninetales and torkoal) while typhlosion spams eruption. Sun boosted eruption always OHKOs even the bulkiest lions with your given stats, typhlosion has infinite PP with harvest + leppa berry, and switching doesn't use PP so you never run out of drought
Edit: you can have Exeggutor equipped with a covert cloak or choice scarf, guaranteeing the skill swap for a 100% success rate
Edit 2: you can go infinite with 1 pokemon, no rule changes necessary. I made another comment with the set but TLDR: recycle drain punch medicham
assuming all 1025 Pokémon are AI Controlled for the simulation, the chances they'd be the right pair, have the right moves, held items, and the coordination to set up an infinite stall is astronomically low. It's a billion lions vs one of every pokemon, not a billion lions vs a competitive trainer that caught one of every pokemon
@@nataliecoronado4206and the simulation he made was 1 billion litleos vs 1000 pokemon, not 1 billion lions vs 1000 pokemon. if theres any problem here its that.
@Snas-nm2ij well, how would you have done it? Litleo (not even its evolved form Pyroar) is a pretty fair in-universe approximation to me. Even if you gave it the stats of Sunkern, people would have been upset either way
@@nataliecoronado4206pokemon has to be a moderately balanced game so the actual power of most pokemon is vastly undersold by their in game battle statistics. And it takes 2 seconds to realize the stupidity of having this simulation run like a pokemon battle. So for starters, I would not equate 1 billion lions vs 1 of every pokemon to 1 billion pokemon vs 1 of every pokemon, which is what this video did in the traditional battle format for pokemon
@@seongjaeoh8742 using real world logic most pokemon would be useless so we have to use in game logic, for instance alot of flying types are too heavy to get airborne irl. Wailmer wouldnt be able to move because it doesnt have a tail for locomotion, Onix wouldnt be able to move and would literally be a pile of inanimate boulders, scizors body and muscles are all made of metal as hard as steel. Steel cannot bend the way a szizor moves so technically scizor would be immobile and pokemon like him the same.
This simulation was the most balanced it can be given the data provided to us from the games. There is no way you could simulate 1 billion lions vs 1 of every pokemon as a giant warzone, it would be impossible to simulate which pokemon was attacking which lion. Pokemon would technically hurt each other in the AOE's etc and wipe each other out, far too many variables. so the most controlled way is to make the lions battle the same way pokemon always have. Especially when they stats are based around turn based combat.
I think the main problem with this is that you assumed that each Pokémon was basically fighting alone, and the lions were all fighting as a team, albeit one at a time. But if we were to assume that the Pokémon were all in a line like that it becomes pretty trivial for them to win. Just have a Pokémon to set up entry hazards, especially Toxic Spikes, and then have Pokémon that can outlast them like we saw with Tropius. I think this strategy would work even if you gave the lions the full stats of Pyroar. And you could obviously change the order of the Pokémon to utilize their strengths like Harvest Pokémon following Sun setters.
exactly what i was thinking
Let's take all those in consideration, the Pokémon still need to beat on average almost 1 million lions each. 19 of them didn't do any damage meaning the remaining 19 million has to be KO by other pokemons. The Pokémon will run out of PP and just hit themselves through struggle, and lose. The best case scenario Astro showed was 200(something)LPL, that's nothing compared to the needed 1 million LPL for EACH Pokémon.
@@Nex123 In this case, the lions would take 3/8 of their health when they enter battle, then slowly die of poison while Harvest mons stall them out
@@Nex123 If they set up toxic spikes, you can run sets where a pokemon is designed to just never die, and the lions lose. All you need is a pokemon faster than the lions that can set up substitute (and the sub survives one bite), has a recovery move of some sort, and has recycle. Toxic + Stealth Rocks + double spikes puts the lions on a pretty short timer. The lions would need to crit 16 times in a row to take out the subs, then 1hKO (probably also with a crit) the pokemon on the turn it sets up recycle on sub. Each of these pokemon would require such absurd luck that only a handful of pokemon need to do this to completely swing the battle.
@@Nex123sticky webs to make even less speed EVs making all mons able to invest more in bulk or offensive, poison spikes to poison or badly poison every lion entering the battle, rocks (be it from stealth rocks or our stoney axed friend from old Hisui, meaning he could also get a kill with it, spikes (again, could also be put up while still attacking and defeating a lion), and, if dynamax/gigantamax is possible there's also the sharp steel
The main reason people even think lions could win is because everyone treats them as if they were pokemon, no, bite and crunch aren't in the lions "moveset" its a lion, not a pokemon. It does NOT have typing, it cannot touch Shedinja. It is NOT super effective on anyone.
random thought, could we possibly say that shedinjas wonder guard only works on the POWER of a Pokemon? as in non-pokemon are unaffected by the wonder guard ability because their attacks have no type. not even normal type. for example, can a trainer hug their Shedinja?
Shedinja loses to Struggle
Then they would be "typeless" and therefore would still hit through Wonder Guard.
@@Gazoney first fair point omg 😧
@@DxShadow7 I stand corrected
I think the problem with this is that it's a 1v1 when the whole point is to have an all-out brawl. 1 earthquake and it's over.
This is like putting an Olympic sprinter into a marathon.
Groudon uses Earthquake and eliminates half of all Pokemon and a country's worth of lions. Kyogre creates a tsunami and wipes out the rest of the land pokemon, but still just a small dent of lions. There would still be like 900,000,000 lions left over to clean up. Do you know how big 1 BILLION is? Pokemon get SLAMMED, no questions. Kyogre would create a tidal wave and then just get jumped in the ocean by a lion submarine. Their best bet is sending Deoxys into space to win the war of attrition - oh wait, Lion Ladder into space! Face it bro, it's over for the Pokemon.
@@burntdraggeddragon You had me in the first half ngl.
Damn rage baiters
@@burntdraggeddragon u dont hit ur team mate with origine pulse
Can't charizard fly over them and flamethrower them
@@burntdraggeddragonhits all adjacent targets
the "they have god" at 0:22 sounds exactly like Dean Pelton from Community TV series
"I have good news and bad news. The bad news is there's one billion lions."
I think something that’s kinda flawed with this method that isn’t talked about is assuming the Lions and Pokémon would be on the same level playing field like is the average lion really going to be level 50 in Pokémon standards?
You're right. Lions would probably be higher leveled
@@mayojarr6243fire breathing lizards are literally like level 5😭😭😭
Is the average pokemon level 50?
@stanfleerackers4495 ig you could find the average of a pokemons level by adding up all the possible levels a pokemon can be in a game.
@@mayojarr6243there are human sized bugs that can snap your neck at lvl 1. It'd be generous to give them lvl 5
Klefki
Steel / Fairy (resists normal and dark)
Prankster
Leppa berry
-recycle (restores leppa berry. must be in 1st move slot so that last 1 pp of recycle will restore recycle)
-substitute (to stop flinches and defense drop from crunch)
-draining kiss (to recover hp)
-calm mind (so draining kiss kills) OR Iron Defense (so substitutes take more hits)
Edit: Also it outspeeds anyway. 75 vs 72.
Edit 2: please try this in a simulator
Edit 3: now with Nature and EVs
Nature: Bold (+Def -att)
EVs:
HP: 80 (just enough for Crit crunch not to kill a sub in one hit. It leave would leave sub at 1% health)
Def: 252
Sp. Attack: 178
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Litleo Crunch vs. 80 HP / 252+ Def Klefki on a critical hit: 56-66 (20.3 - 24%) -- possible 6HKO
1) FYI. This litleo has its attack changed to 73. Adamant with max attack EVs.
2) prankster means speed doesn't matter as long as you use draining kiss only when you have a sub, since all other moves have priority
3) at no boosts, it takes about 2 draining kiss to recover HP lost to sub (12.3 to 14.9%)
4) at +2, you recover 24.7% to 29%
Edit 4: changed move order. Turns out that is important. If recycle is not in your first move slot, your last pp of recycle will restore pp on a different move if another move has 0 pp which means you can't recycle anymore.
Also updated detail for sub blocking defense drop from crunch which would be a death sentence to klefki
It would be strong, but it wouldnt kill enough, it would last for, at maximum 300 and something turns, and that is nowhere near 1 billion
A lot of cats vs Infinite food glitch
this actually probably wins outside of extremely unlucky setup turns
@@ferrisffalcisno, it avoids flinches thanks to substitute. This wins.
@@paulovitorsouzanunes4854brother it has INFINITE PP. It KILLS INFINITE LIONS. FYM 300.
TL:DW He turned 1 billion lions into 1 billion pokemon and made them fight every pokemon. So it was really "Would 1 billion pokemon beat 1 thousand pokemon."
What would you propose instead? He used real world logic for lions and pokemon? If anything bro gave the lions a chance.
@@YvxhaThat is exactly why it’s a pointless debate beacause making both the lions and the Pokémon real the Pokémon can’t lose
Omg even if you give the lions one HP the pokemon being pokemon will still run out of pp.
@@Yvxha nothing you can do except not do it.
@@DGice2 pp is only for gameplay reasons. Pokemon canonicaly dont have or need pp
Interestingly, through these rules, you need only one pokemon to win: Gallade. Gallade can learn Drain Punch, Recycle, and Swords Dance (and is one of the only pokemon to do so). Using Swords Dance to set up, he only need guarantee that he doesn't die on the first three turns. He out speeds the lions, instantly KOs with drain punch, which heals him, and then when he consumes his leppa berry he has more drain punches. He is an eternal lion-killing machine.
0:46 the reason in games Arceus is not the strongest pokemon is because the Arceus we see is just part of it's true form. So it makes sense both in lore and games (this is explanined in pLA)
Exactly the only cannon form of acreus is 0.01 of its full power after you already beat giratina
arceus lost to concrete in its own movie
@@maxurmon A heavily neutered hand of god lost to specialized metal concrete. The actual full power Original One can’t even fit inside a universe. In the anime, that Arceus was also heavily weakened due to lacking a piece of itself, so you’re fighting a small fragment of a small fragment.
@@jacksonvoet8312 then why couldn't he use another fragment to break the concreten if it was only a fragment?
@@maxurmon We don’t know, it’s likely that it’s one fragment per universe. But yeah, it should also be noted that there’s a reason that movie isn’t acknowledged anymore by Pokémon themselves. It doesn’t exactly fit the newly established lore in Legends Arceus.
Sooo this isn't really Pokemon VS 1 Billion Lions this is Pokemon vs 1 Billion Pokemon (Litleos)
I would argue a lion is way more powerful than a litleo, and the lions still won.
@@ediscaptain Litleo can literally shoot flames...
@@catherinejaddii828 It's also a baby. Adrenaline filled Lion Charging in to end a bloodline. I put my bet on the lion
(though I would have to assume the lion is fighting to the death and knows only one of 2 is getting out of the cage.)
@@ediscaptain A magical baby. No matter at what stage of development, pokemon are able to damage things like a steelix. I wouldn't compare a magical creature that can cut steel with its claws to a normal animal. They're not comparable just because they're both felines. Not to mention lions wouldn't have pokemon moves and somehow able to infuse their bites with dark energy to hit the incorporeal.
@TheBlueKio the fuck is a "dark energy"? That is not a thing, not in battles at least.
In the original Japanese dark literally means evil or bad
I think lions are capable of doing bad things (for example - biting your face off)
The only way lions win in this argument is if they condense themselves into a black hole, at which point you’d ask ‘do the lions even exist anymore?’
1 billion lions dont have the strenght to condense into a black hole, even with the hive mind people say they have (for some reason).
Even if they managed to do it, the black hole would be smaller than grain of sand and dissapear almost instantly
There are multiple pokemon that are either immune to or can control black holes, and at least 1 that eats black holes
@@sewd1289Dusclops I believe.
i mean theyd basically kill themselves in the process, not to mention any pokemon that can control blakcholes and wether you consider ghost pokemon as physical beings that could get sucked into the black hole
Which begs the question: How many lions do you think you'd have to condense into a 1-meter cubed volume to create a black hole?? And how massive would the.. pile(?)... orb(?) of lions have to be to produce enough force to compress the other lions down that much?
Lions: WHY!? WHY WON'T YOU DIE?!
Tropius: B a n a n a
“Pokemon have their normal movesets”
“Aegislash tried to TOXIC”
???????
They probably looked at typical competitive movesets (So what they would "normally" run)
However, it appears they just picked the first moveset in the list as Toxic Aegislash is not what I'd think of when running Aegislash. Mixed Attacker Aegislash would have been way more fitting.
Ya know, the Detroit Lions did surprisingly well here
Indeed, it was a great day for the Met- err, Lions
I was gonna make that joke but you made it first
We will make it to the bowl at least this year mark my words
@@bathamsterytBUCCS ALL THE WAY 🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️
To be honest first up Wolfe did the Callcs for free for all, Double battle: guess what shedinja with Type switch works decent. In his video he made a mistake, he put all Lions in a row for every Pokémon individually. That means the field resets every time. If you want to make it a fair battle you need to put them all in a row.
The strat: You set up all Hazards for 3/8 damage and Bad poison (idk if one layer is better), then you get Set up mons for +6 evasion, +6 def, +6 sp def, ingrain, +6 speed, substitute and batton pass it onto the "unkilleable" Exeggutor. And look after a long battle they'll win.
So as long as you you don't give the lions the advantage of an unfair battle, Pokémon will win.
(Shout out to anyone who read the entire comment)
Since the origin form palkia and dialga were in the sim does that mean it's one of every *form* of pokemon? if so theres 4 billion forms of spinda, as long as each spinda did at least a quarter of a lions health bar they win.
Forms yes except ig the Arceus and Silvally formes. I only saw one Arceus.
But the Spinda patterns arent formes, so no they wouldn't count.
We go by the game, so Spinda ends up being just one
Best argument ever.
Spinda army carries.
This is no longer 1000000000 lions vs ~1000 Pokémon, it is 1000000000 lions vs 4000000000+ Pokémon.
Origin Dialga and Palkia are alternate forms, with base stats different to their regular ones. The Spinda forms are just pattern variations, so using all 4 billion of them would just the same as using 4 billion regular Spinda.
The same goes with Pokemon like Arceus and Silvally (they have 18 different forms, one for each type) - you wouldn't be able to use them since they're all just the same pokemon.
However you would probably be allowed to use the Therian and Incarnate forms of Landorus, Tornadus, Thundurus and Enamorus, as well as the different forms of Zygarde and Rotom, among others - since they're all different forms, not variations.
So the question would be"Can 1 billion lions beat 4 billion spinda with friends"
Forget the 1 of every Pokémon vs a billion lions argument. I want to see 1025 Scraggy vs 1 billion lions
As I always say, if you're questioning who wins in a fight, it's always the one you have to nerf the most to make it a fair fight. Disregarding lore and only taking into account ingame logic, while buffing the lions by forcing every battle to be a 1v1, clearly shows that at full power Pokemon do in fact win. This video is simulating "weakest every Pokemon vs strongest 1 billion lions"
this comment should be pinned. If you have to essentially buff the lions to scale to even weaker pokemon and then nerf the pokemon and scale in accuracy by game logic, ofc the lions will win. Kyogre in the game isn't drowning everything but in the lore nough said.
@@andrewmahabir589 with Surf / Origin Pulse it can hit everything so both in game and in lore its drowning all of the lions
Except that the lions weren't buffed in any way - hell, they even had to be scaled down to litleo's stats instead of pyroars, and the pokemon still weren't able to do jack squat until round 2 where they had to get precise sets to specifically counter the lions while lions remained in their initial nerfed state.
Even in the most numerous battle format that exists in pokemon - 3v3, pokemon would probably still need to tryhard against what's basically a bunch of pre-evolutions.
Edit: Oh, and don't forget the part where pokemon had to use held items, something that lions also weren't given.
The only format where pokemon could just aoe all the lions is 1000 vs. 1 billion (aka the Wolfey video), which is, as far as i checked, a format that never existed in any of the games. So you literally need to invent an entirely new format to buff the pokemon enough to be able to consistently win.
@sophiasabkv1372 You call giving litleo stats a fire breathing cub to lions a nerf? I say no way. you can't scale a real lion to a pokemon that has tons of possibilities depending how you build it, moves, etc. it's definitely a buff to an animal which otherwise would have a hard time on its own. I'm not saying they can't beat lesser mons ofc with these numbers. But to scale the lions already to a pokemon come on that's clearly a buff.
@sophiasabkv1372 Let's think about it like this then, what happens when you put pokemon on earth, with 1 billion lions, do the same thing lions got the treatment for in games but now for pokemon in the real world. No stats, no pp, no held items, nothing, just pure ability of what that pokemon can do.
"I simulated 1 of Every Pokemon VS 1 Billion of a Pokemon that I made up"
You also gave the lions a good moveset, when they could have had shit like growl and roar
oh no, he gave them a good moveset? stacked with moves like "bite" lmao
@@kingwinifred4393 they got crunch
@@kingwinifred4393main problem: the lions fucking being so kind to do a single file line instead of doing a horde battle against all Pokemon just for Kyogre to use surf
@@chuamingkun5781 assuming 4 moves all with 64 pp, and every battle being a horde battle against 5 opponents, AND every single move killing everything, AND every single pokemon(including caterpie, etc) being able to do that that leaves us with
64*4*5*1025=1,312,000
so about a million and a half lions before the pokemon start struggling to death. do you REALLY think that the struggles can do 1000x the kills as the moves did?
@@-Ano-Ano- Spread moves hit all enemies. Primal kyogre with water spout kills all of them.
You're thinking about this way too hard. All you really need to beat every lion are two Pokémon: a Smeargle with Focus Sash (for extra consistency) and a max Attack Gliscor with Poison Heal and Toxic Orb. You don't even need that much luck to pull it off.
Smeargle puts a lion to sleep with Spore, then sets up Aqua Ring and Ingrain to Baton Pass them onto Gliscor. Gliscor comes into the fight already poisoned and starts using Swords Dance until the move runs out of PP, using Roost to stay healthy. When it runs out of all PP it will start using Struggle at +6 Attack, outspeeding and killing a lion every turn and taking 25% HP recoil, which it will then immediately heal back thanks to Poison Heal, Ingrain and Aqua Ring.
in frank's scenario, it's only one pokemon per battle, they don't have the benefit of having a whole setup pokemon for them to enable those kind of strategies
@@julesm5892 Yeah it is kinda.. idk dumb i guess, lot of the pokemon are good because of the the support they provide/ receive, a lot of moves and abilities are specifically meant for double battles like friend guard, hospitality, moves hitting all foes like water spout , eruption etc.., Ally helping moves like helping hand pollen puff, instruct, tailwind, heck even the official completive pokemon is double battles, also in the video stat changes, recharge moves persist while encountering new Lions and he describes as "Randomly Encountering infinite lions" in Which Case The Stat Changes would be removed and the recharge turn would be cancelled ,it was like they are all in a single battle not random encounters i just think it could be phrased a bit differently , still cool video tho
@@TPfor1 its not a cool video its made for the lions to win
I assumed these were wild Pokemon. These are strategies a trainer would come up with
@@josephvaccariello4181 and they still somehow lost
realistic situation:
"Pikachu uses thunderbolt!" *Every lion in a 5 meter radius is instantly vaporized by a 200,000 ampere current* "It's super effective!"
So basically, the lions win from a gameplay standpoint, the Pokémon win from a lore standpoint, and Tropius just stands points
even gameplay wise if the last living form remaining is tropius it's a pokemon so lions still lose
Pokemon still win gameplay wise as long as we get Recycle/Leppa berry on a steel type like Klefki that can outspeed & heal with draining kiss
Even from gameplay pokemon legends arceus proved pokemon can fight outside classical battles without being limited by pp
arceus lost to concrete in its own movie, even the lore doesn't support them, they only win if you take pokedex entries as truth and if you think magcargo having the heat of the son makes sense then you just win because i'm not arguing with you
@@maxurmon yeah it's also been proven that the arceus we see is just an avatar so that's still only the fraction of arceus powers.
How to kill all the lions in one step “Groudon use earthquake!”
I know!!!!!!!
Very weird to time to be posting this lol
UM ACTUALLY BECAUSE OF HORDE BATTLES WE KNOW NO MATTER HOW MANY TARGETS ARE THERE IT WILL ALWAYS -25% MEANS EVEN IF THERE ARE 1B LIONS EARTHQUAKE WILL STILL DO 75% DAMAGE@@somerandommusicianSRM
@@somerandommusicianSRM We hire some help “Kyogre use Surf!”
My guy it does the same thing lmao. @@MatteoTheFuture
What we wanted: Every Pokemon against 1B Lions
What we got: Every Pokémon against 1B Litleos without healing between battles
You're just mad that he's being fair and objective using game logic, which is what Pokémon is. Pokémon did not start as an anime, nor as a lore, but a game. While I'd argue that lions are closer to Persian, which is normal, using a similar Pokémon as a basis for the powerscale is perfectly reasonable.
we dont wanna give pokemon the edge alright?
Except there is one Pokemon that automatically beats every lion although he's from a very obscure spin-off. Christmas Pikachu has infinite health in his game.
@@Eagle-2448 Yes
@@unanchoRED1 I do
Video starts at 22:15
But u are skipping the whole momentum to the climax,,, no fun
@ActualBlueBlu actually, he's skipping the climax too.
And the falling action.
And the video
you lied to me 😑
I like how in a battle of stamina it took frank 17 minutes to consider the Pokemon using a stamina strategy
And not once did he think to use Giga Drain as the healing I don't think. Like, Arboliva with Harvest+Leppa, Reflect, Sunny day, Growth, Giga Drain. Open reflect, Growth, Giga. Growth, Giga. Repeat until +6 Sp Atk. Sunny day, Giga. Then spam the Gigas.
@@Xios_Angelis you lose to flinch or crunch def drops tho
@@motherlove8366 replace Sunny day with Trailblaze then. You don't need guaranteed Harvest, just enough to keep your pp up
Next lets use a simulation where lions have to eat, fight eachother for territory and sleep most of the day while slowly starving to death while Rayquaza sits in space infinitely
Sounds like how it would go in the TerminalMontage battle royale version
bro doesn't know about the lion ladder
@@darwinthing LMAO I GET THIS
@@darwinthing Rayquaza in ozone. Ozone cold and no O2. Lion die from cold and no O2. Ryquaza win.
Wait so he didn’t even simulate 1 billion lions vs every Pokémon, he simulate 1 billion physical Litleos vs every Pokémon
This is how you know why RoyalPear Don’t mess around 21:37 RoyalPear The Goat
Lion fans when they discover horde battles: "I'mma pretend I didn't see that!".
Edit: Kinda funny how both Astroid and Wolfey made a video about this following game logic, but with one using the battle mode with most pokemon on the field and Frank using the one with the least.
It's funny how Water Spout + Helping Hand just clears
It was a competitive player vs a casual one. A very biased casual one
@@LuckyNumber39 I think Frank is also forgetting that realistically the Pokemon win because they can fly
@@shamussarrazine6623 and there were multiple reasons why Eternamax Eternatus solos this despite what he said:
Unlimited PP (raid boss)
Untouchable (needs doggo)
4 targets at once
The only thing I learned from this video is that Litleo, with a bit of setup, can effectively body legendaries. And, arguably, do it better with legit hidden ability Moxie instead of not legit ability Strong Jaw.
It’d work pretty well if you purposefully make EV spreads that aren’t 252 speed and max attack and click focus blast instead of thunderbolt lmao, it’s pretty much the entire genre of those staged pokemon showdown videos if you think about it
except you need multiple litleos and moxie wouldn't do shit cause you need to ko for it to activate and you get 1 kill every 20 litleos and then revenge killed right after if there's a second legendary, so no litleo can't, a shit ton of litleos can but strong jaw is still better than moxie
To do that you would need for the legendary to have a set madr by someone who has never tried competitive.
So its: perfected set for the litleo vs extremely flawed and straight up silly set for the pokemon.
Anyone who says the Pokémon aren’t smart enough/aren’t going to work together is being INCREDIBLY disingenuous, especially if they expect 1 billion lions to somehow coordinate with each other
the fact they all run away from any intimidate mons trampling and infighting. The lions would also just starve to death while all the pokemon just hide in the distortion world for like a week
They listen to trainers, so they're definitely smart. Also, Pokemon like Alakazam have 5000 IQ
People forget that pokemon are on human intelligence level.... well, except for Magikarp.
Especially considering most pokemon are of human or greater intelligence (Greatest examples of extremely intelligent are Alakazam and Metagross, Alakazam with 5000 IQ and Metagross with 4 Super Computers)
"What if Pokémon had prep time? "
What if... What if the lions were just lions and not pokemon😭
Because this is simulated wrong😂
The lions being super effective with Crunch is interesting. Would a regular animal have types?
realistically no, they aren't pokemon, so they dont have "Dark" energy their bites and slashes wouldn't even be the move bite or slash.
unfortunately this doesnt translate in game logic, but a more fair comparison to game rules is putting the lions at 1 in all stats (they shouldn't even outspeed weaklings like magicarp as even magicarp can react to some electric attacks and dodge them.) and giving them Leer, rest, growl, and scary face, as those are the ONLY kinds of attacks a lion could even HOPE to so much as emulate. Even scratch can inflict damage, and lions wouldn't even be able to hurt the pokemon, so literally no attacking moves should be learnable by the lions.
with game logic however, even using this method pokemon still run out of pp eventually. but the harvest method used in the video would work just as well, if not better against lions who are incapable of doing damage other than via struggle, which will only ever do 1 damage (thanks to their low stats) to any given pokemon. (even struggle they shouldn't have but we can't code struggle out of the game) though allowing use of items is perhaps, somewhat iffy, I think it's fair play since the pokemon are not allowed to team up, nor fight the lions all at once which would make this challenge trivial even using game logic, as EQ simply hits all targets on the field and even with split damage would auto kill all the lions no matter what stats they had, as the EQer could be boosted to hell and back by it's fellow supporting pokemon. (pokemon challenges covers this way better than I could.)
@@prodecks6654 I mean there are several problems with your logic here (nothing indicates that bite and crunch have special "dark" energy within the game, saying that lions are weaker than literally every known Pokemon doesn't make any logical sense, in-game Earthquake only hit adjacent targets not every opposing Pokemon as seen in triple battles). You're stacking the deck an insane amount for the Pokemon by assuming that lions are incapable of replicating literally any feat that a Pokemon is capable of, which anyone examining how Pokemon function logically both in the games specifically and in the franchise as a whole could see doesn't actually hold any water as an argument
"PP run out eventually" to be fair, if the pokemon kill the lions in a single turn (which was proven possible following game logics, by Wolfe Glick), PP would not be an issue
@@tpfoxCastro they can't take out all the lions in one turn if we stick strictly to mechanics and logic that are replicable in the actual games- the maximum number of opponents any one Pokemon can fight at once is 5 (via gen 6 horde battles), and spread moves like Earthquake and Surf only affect adjacent targets (as seen in Triple battles, where an offensive move used by a Pokemon on either side can only affect targets adjacent to it with the exception of some Flying type moves and Pulse-type moves). If we're going to use in game logic to debate, we have to stick to what's actually possible within the games
Bro you would LOVE TierZoo
When I saw Frank enter frame with the Lion outfit, I knew I was in for a golden video
Now build it irl
it was aight
No
"One little banana dinosaur could solo a billion lions if given enough time, resources and fuck ton of luck"
So Tropius is the Batman of the Pokemon universe, at least in the Battle against the lions arc.
Im pretty sure if one bulky pokemon set all the spikes, tropius would get a ko every four turns, so only around 250 million turns to kill all the lions
ROYAL PEAR MENTIONED
He's the hero Unova deserves, but not the one it needs right now. *Laughs in overrated movies*
I mean, there's multiple pokemon that could probably just straight up destroy Earth and kill all the lions by suffocating them in the vacuum of space if we look at lore. Turning it into game logic just kinda makes it impossible though since Pokemon are significantly powered down for gameplay purposes.
Pyroar: Remember my son these lions that spread out as far as the eye can see are ours to conquer, they are our enemies.
Litleo: But father what's out there beyond the lions? Beyond what we see?
Pyroar: Freedom....
That frame of Scraggy surrounded by the three legendaries he outperformed was comedy gold
Don’t sleep on Scraggy or he’ll sleep on you.
This is basically just saying “how many lions can one Pokémon kill at a time and then just add them all up” but it’s not taking into account that a real battle would be taking into account that all Pokemon would be battling all lions at the same time. They would also benefit from any other Pokemon, whether it be by ability (one Pokemon setting up sun for fire types or harvest, etc) or
Movesets (helping hand + drizzle water spout Kyogre would like to have a word with you). There are so many situations that you don’t account for.
Pokemon always win.
if we're taking that into account then helping hand doesn't have priority since priority isn't a thing irl. every move would be based on your speed. also if irl, any spread moves used would also hurt your whole team.
@@TwoBsTwoTsthe thing is we have multi battles so he chose to do singles even though that's not at all what one of every Pokemon versus a billion lions and if you want to take real-world applications Pokemon gets rocks that are alive god a snail that is made out of magma a caterpillar
@velocirex3984 now you're talking lore again, this isn't a fucking lore video. It does not matter that arceus is a god,
@@Splinter-ge9pf okay what about Steelix
@@velocirex3984 I mean... how much LPL did it have? Prolly wasn't that good since it wasnt even mentioned
Pokémon attacks are not ordinary physical actions like a simple bite or scratch; they are imbued with a unique energy system that sets them apart from real-world animal behaviors. Pokémon have the ability to harness mystical energies often referred to as chakra, chi, or elemental energy. These concepts, deeply rooted in various forms of Asian folklore and popular anime like Naruto, Dragon Ball, and The Legend of the Monkey King, emphasize the manipulation of internal energy to produce extraordinary abilities.
For instance, the move Bite, categorized as a "Dark-type" attack, goes beyond a physical bite. While it deals physical damage in the game mechanics, its depiction in the Pokémon anime often shows an aura or energy resembling fangs. This energy is created using the Pokémon’s innate "chi" or elemental power, akin to techniques like the Hadoken from Street Fighter. In contrast, a lion from the real world lacks this ability to channel energy or manipulate its aura. A lion’s bite is purely physical and cannot generate the kind of elemental or spiritual energy Pokémon utilize.
Similarly, when a Pokémon like Sprigatito uses an attack involving leaves, such as Leafage or Magical Leaf, it’s not hurling ordinary, tangible leaves. Instead, it manipulates "flora energy," which is referred to in the Pokémon universe as Grass-type energy. These "leaves" are condensed forms of energy designed to mimic their physical counterparts, much like how a fireball in martial arts fiction isn't made of literal flames but concentrated energy. If a lion were struck by this attack, it wouldn't simply feel the impact of lightweight leaves. Instead, it would experience the force of highly concentrated elemental energy, which it has no natural defense against.
This energy-based nature of Pokémon attacks gives them a distinct advantage over real-world animals. Unlike Pokémon, real animals lack chakra or chi-based mechanisms to shield themselves or counteract such attacks. The result is that these energy-infused moves would inflict far more damage on a real-world creature than their game designation of "neutral" or "super-effective" might suggest. For example, Grass-type energy could disrupt a lion’s physical and metaphysical and spiritual equilibrium, potentially overwhelming it in ways that Pokemon wouldn't even experience. Pokémon attacks, therefore, transcend the physical realm, operating on an entirely different level of power and complexity. And this is only the tip of the iceberg of Pokemon moves and abilities.
You turned the Lions... INTO POKEMON??? That's basically doing 1 BILLION Pokemon Vs 1 of every existing Pokemon SCAM!
If this logic were true, humans in the Pokemon universe are also Pokemon
The problem with this question is it is never specified if it is under pokemon battle rules or the rules of nature (free-for-all). In free for all you have to account for things like Surf, Earthquake, Inferno, etc being able to hit many lions at once. Hyper-Beam is basically condensed solar energy fired directly at an enemy, so that's definitely tearing through several lions in a line. Dragon-types that can fly, Psychic, Ghost, and Fairy types subduing/possessing lions to fight other lions. All kinds of variables
but its a nightmare to decide these things and determine exactly how it would work
I looked into it myself and I am pretty sure that, of all things, Corsola can do it with an OFFENSIVE set and no Leppa berry.
(Edit: Dang it. This set just barely does not work reliably, purely because Curse has such low PP and Noble Roar has so much PP. It can still work if certain conditions are met, like the lions having PP maxes on their attacking moves, but probably doesn't in the most likely scenario.)
(Might recommend looking into a fast Harvest Trevenant with Power-up Punch, Drain Punch, and Horn Leech. If it can get past the first couple of turns and use Power-Up Punch once or twice, it oneshots lions, and it becomes so incredibly unlikely for it to run out of PP that it might actually be able to defeat a billion lions. Assuming the lions aren't running speed investment, anyway.)
Corsola resists Normal, and gets access to both Aqua Ring and Ingrain, as well as speed and attack boosting moves.
This set can endlessly OHKO lions with Struggle at plus six:
Corsola @ Shell Bell (Only item that can heal you for over 1/8th of your HP a turn)
Ability: Hustle (Hustle is actually perfect here since Struggle has perfect accuracy.)
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature (Adamant if lions are defensively invested)
IVs: 21 HP (If lions have no HP IVs, need to lower HP so that Struggle does less recoil damage than Shell Bell heals. If they do have HP IVs, then 31 works.)
- Rock Polish - Curse - Ingrain - Aqua Ring
This set also is capable of getting set up, though it demands avoiding a few flinches and crits from the lions' strongest move (crunch) at the start of the battle. I think the optimal sequence of moves would be Curse -> Ingrain -> Aqua ring -> Curse until +6 defense -> Rock Polish until plus 6 -> burn all PP, using Curse last to make sure you have +6 attack at the end despite Noble Roar.
If the lions roll high every time, during the first three turns they would deal 54.2% of Corsola's HP with their strongest move (max 72.1% if offensively invested). And, Corsola's passive healing starts to outpace the lions' damage once it gets to +3 defense.
Which means that Corsola would definitely be able to get set up if the lions have no offensive IVs, even if it gets flinched or crit a few times. In the worst case scenario for lion IV investment (max attack and HP), it becomes a lot tighter, as you really don't want a flinch on the first few turns or a crit in the last few. But, it is still doable. After that, the only thing that can break this strategy is if the first lion crits specifically Crunch 4 times in a row (3 times if worst case investment) but that will probably not happen before Crunch runs out of PP.
So, could a single Corsola beat a billion lions? In this scenario, it stands a good chance, depending on how lucky it is. But, could 10ish Corsola with this set beat a billion lions? Probably!
A pre-poisoned Poison Heal Gliscor with Agility + Swords Dance + Attacking move + Shell Bell could probably also do it, if you lower its HP IV to 0. If pre-poisoning is allowed.
And a bunch of pokemon can probably do it if they can be relied upon to use Recycle. Specifically, a Leppa Berry + Body Press + (defense boosting move) + Recycle + (speed boosting move). Stakataka, Arceus, Mew, Jirachi, probably more.
Klefki might also be able to win with a Leppa + Recycle + Draining Kiss + Calm Mind set, maximally physically defensive. It is faster than the lions and only takes 22% from a crit from the strongest possible lion, so it could probably avoid death forever so long as the AI isn't using moves at random
BIG BRAIN LET SOMEONE SEE THIS
actually, i an pretty sure that smeargle can do this too! considering bro can learn every single move
@@dawsonwu7272 I checked that, it unfortunately isn’t bulky enough to get set up and literally is too weak to OHKO the lions even at +6 lol
you have to assume the worst case scenario: eventually, a lions will crit with a defence drop on crunch 5 times in a row or flinch 5 times
I came wanting to see a pokemon vs lion battle royal, like a million toads vs 1 giant bowser. Instead i got was the feel i was in a conference meeting talking about numbers.
I havent even finished the video and I can tell based on your explanation of how this will work that the Pokemon will lose. The problem isnt necessarily that you turned the Lions into Pokemon like that other commenter said. The biggest problem is that you eliminated every advantage by just going with an extended 1v1 rather than a massive 1,000 vs 1,000,000,000 like it should be.
The playing field is not uneven as claimed at the beginning because no matter which choice of logic you choose, the Pokemon have a way to ensure that the lions cannot even touch them.
1. Game rules:
Pokemon can use Earthquake and hit literally every single lion at once AND flying type pokemon are untouchable because the Lions cannot hit them and the pokemon do not need to land on the ground because they never exhaust.
2. Pokedex rules:
Magcargo is hotter than the sun, the lions wouldn't even be able to react before they vaporized.
3. Lore rules:
Arceus is literally god, it could just will the lions out of existence
4. Anime rules:
Arceus is still all powerful in the anime, and pokemon also don't have PP, so area of effect attacks (like earthquake) will never run out.
simulation gotta be ragebait, especially bc it’s 1v1s while down a billion in numbers. you’re making moves like earthquake or draco meteor, oblivion wing, all target one instead of the mass.
also giving the outspeeding pokemon that have oneshot moves draco meteor or explosion is kinda like giving all lions the worst moveset they could have thought of
with these rules and mechanics you could have 1 billion magikarp at level 5, with only splash, and the magikarp would still win. At some point the pokemon would run out of PP on all their movies and struggle themselves to fainting
bro is coping
that made me laugh lmao but real
Yes, that is the point. And he still found one way for the Pokémon to win.
Also, not really. The lion's speed and ability to do damage was critical to only one Pokémon being able to win. Otherwise, many Pokémon with leftovers probably beats infinite Magicarp.
@@WilliamWillamski big fire lizard and metal bug prob can kill a hundred million lions a alone
@@WilliamWillamski Me when I have no argument but don't want to admit I'm wrong:
Are we just supposed to assume the lions are smart enough to form a ladder? They’re lions
HOLD ON! STAT CHANGES DON'T CARRY OVER BETWEEN BATTLES!
which means this wasn't 1 Billion 1 on 1 battles, this was around 1,000 battles, each for 1 pokemon to fight against a team of millions of lions! You can't say this is 1 on 1 battles, and then not let the stat changes return to normal after each battle. Just switching which pokemon is out in a normal battle will remove stat changes!
hold on. the way it was simulated, the lion team was just an infinite team. after all, it would be easier to code an infinite team than infinite connections. also if the 1 billion lions are indeed splitting up like that, its one continuous battle because if it can only be 1v1 then the lions have to form a team, similar to a lion ladder having to be one lion on top of the other. how else does a queue work??? if the lions are making a line for longevity reasons (like some moves target multiple mons in double battles which buffs pokeon chances), obviously the lions would still be 1 team you greasy ahh fried pickled tomato.
@@TheShadowMaven And that's exactly the problem. He described it as "encountering a wild lion over and over again," not "one pokemon vs a team of 1000 or more lions. He broke his own rules. If he wanted for the lions to all be on a team, is it not reasonable to also have all the pokemon on a team as well? And yet, that's clearly not the case since there's no mention of setup moves like stealth rocks, leech seed, or poison rocks.
Also, it's hard to take your argument seriously when you choose to resort to insults.
@@steelhorn2029yeah the important part is he specifically said it would be like wild encounters over and over and then immediately turned around and kept stat debuffs between battles, it bothered me too 😭
Here's the problem with "Game Logic." No one is ever going to agree what that means.
The in-game battles are part of Game Logic, but then how do you go about the battle? Do you do what you just did and do multiple singles in a row? Is it a weird horde battle? If it's a horde battle, what can spread moves hit? Do the Pokémon work together or have a trainer? What stats and moves do Lions have? What are the EVs and IVs.
Then you have the realization that game logic is more than just those battles. In Legends Arceus, Pokémon can attack outside of battles. Pokédex entries (which Legends Arceus proves are true, btw) are appart of the game and therefore are part of Game Logic. In ORAS, Mega Rayquazua (who doesn't need a trainer to Mega Evolve) destroys an earth destroying asteroid, and Deoxys can survive that. Or in Platinum and PLA, we see Arceus being a god. Those cut scenes are in the game and, therefore, are Game Logic.
All this to say, Game Logic is more than just battles, and with true Game Logic, there is much more to consider.
You got one fact wrong. Legends arceus proves that BEHAVIORAL pokedex entries are completely factual. Statistics based pokedex entries are still an overexaggeration. So yes, swablu does pretend that it is a hat, but no, despite being incredibly hot, magcargo is not hotter than the surface of the sun.
@@shaddowofthelost1750 That's not nessissarily true at all. And we have no real proof that's an overexaggeration. Besides, what people fail to realize is that this is a fictional world. Something that is ridiculous to real world standards isn't to the Pokémon world.
@jeremymorris345 yeah, I know it's different from the real world, I mean, the humans there are far more durable and strong than the humans in this world, but even then, magcargo can walk, well, "walk" over metal, rock, and other things without instantly melting or burning them. Other things, like legendaries, are far less exaggerated than others, but even then, it's still stretching things a bit, like yveltal "killing all life when it enters its cocoon" being more of a "killing all life in a 1 kilometer radius when it enters its cocoon". Just because it isn't necessarily true doesn't mean it isn't necessarily false. So let's just accept my stance of "some statistics and feats of power are more exaggerated than others" because it's the stance that makes the most sense out of the nonsensical pokedex entries.
Not only that, but game logic means that Pokemon can breed insanely quickly.
@@brutusthebear9050 That's a really good point. DITTO YOU'RE NEEDED. But they would still be babys.
On the other hand, still using in game stats/rules, if we assumed all lions and pokemon were on the field simultaneously, a single Kyogre water spout wipes their entire population in one move, to say nothing of any additional spread moves.
When someone did the math they found that if the Pokemon coordinate and buff each other then a single spread move from basically any Pokemon can kill all the lions a billion times over. If they get to buff each other with priority moves then the damage they put out becomes logarithmic.
@@somethingorother7440 yes we both watched the Wolfe video lol
spread moves lose power when used on multiple targets. just give up bro.
@@RainbowLizardOne there is a hard coded cap on how low they can go. Turns out they will always hit for at least 70% no matter how many targets.
@@RainbowLizardOne dude, somebody else has already done the math, that decrease is irrelevant, you just give up bro
I came here expecting a serious answer to a serious question. Instead I got a dude laughing at his own jokes for 20 minutes.
Based on your simulation, Alolan exeggutor could solo all the lions with this set (barring a crit/flinch barrage in the first few turns):
Exeggutor-Alola @ Leppa Berry
Level: 50
Lax Nature
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 224 HP / 12 Atk / 244 Def / 28 Spe
- Trailblaze
- Sunny Day
- Growth
- Giga Drain
Even assuming the lions are Jolly, 252 attack and speed EVs, Exeggutor wil outspeed them after 2 trailblazes, and then giga drain's healing will outpace the lions' damage output. and once exeggutor manages to get a sunny day+growth up he oneshots the lions with giga drain. If he then gets another growth up for +4 attack, Trailblaze also oneshots the lions.
Approximately 1 billion turns of harvest/giga drain shenanigans later, Exeggutor stands atop 1 billon drained lion corpses 😎
If the simulation were good, Alolan Exeggutor wouldn't be able to eat the berries since the lions'd all have the Unnerve ability.
@@Canaris4 Unless I'm mistaken the turn would go like this: giga drain -> lion dies and unnerve switches off -> berry is eaten -> new lion comes in and unnerve is back on. So unnerve wouldn't help the lions at all.
I don't think it makes sense for the simulation to include the ways a Pokemon would behave if it had a trainer. Wild Pokemon don't make the most ideal decisions
@@trikitrikitriki I think this is supposed to be an ideal scenario since the lions are also being put into an ideal scenario technically speaking, also let’s remember all of this are hypothetical scenarios
@@trikitrikitriki my brother in christ Alakazam has an iq of 5000 and can communicate telepathically. -1 Pokémon in fight, +1 expert trainer that can instruct klefky or A-Exeggutor to solo every single lion.
He literally said what this battle actually was at the very beginning. This isn’t one of every Pokémon versus 1 billion lions, this is one of every Pokémon versus one billion Litleo. Of course Pokémon are going to lose.
This entire debate comes down to two questions: are you using the lore or are you using the game mechanics. If you’re using the game mechanics, how exactly are you setting up those mechanics?
If it’s a billion one on one battles, of course Pokémon are going to lose because you can’t choose to skip turns so they’ll just struggle themselves to death which is an asinine argument.
If it’s all Pokémon versus all lions at once in a massive multi battle format, Kyogre would slaughter every single lion in one move with origin pulse.
If you’re going off Mystery Dungeon’s rule set (which would actually be the most realistic scenario out of all the options) Pokémon would actually win because they are able to neutral attack and deal damage without using PP limited moves.
This argument is hilarious to me because there’s only one scenario in which the lions are undefeatable and that’s always the only one which the lion fans use: abusing the hell out of the main games’ single and double battle mechanics.
ANY other scenario, even the ones he mentioned in this video, result in the Pokémon trouncing. For example: killing Dialga is mutually assured destruction because the fabric of time shatters resulting in the world being paralyzed. Forever.
Killing Yveltal is a win for Pokémon because if he dies literally everything on the surface of the planet dies. There’s a lot of Pokémon who would not be on the surface of the planet.
You get the gist.
The thing I find the funniest though is that even if you put it into single and double battle format: the lions would actually still lose. Pokémon don’t die in the mainline games, they feint. After 24 hours, the Pokémon is recovered and ready to go if it’s in the wild. That doesn’t apply to the lions who, if they lose a battle, actually die. So in actuality, every Pokémon so long as it can deal damage to the lions would eventually be able to solo simply by feinting, resting, and then going back in.
@alphastronghold715 and the ghosts couldn't even faint by anything other than themselves so they would last the longest by far before fainting the only version of pokemon that die are Manga and these lions don't want to mess with them they are the strongest form of pokemon
Well yes it would probably be a better way although your moves also have limited PP in Mystery Dungeon and the only attack you can perform infinitely is a standard attack. So again, not that realistic. Also the pokemon would get bullied as soon as they don't have moves that can hit multiple targets. Moreover, Mystery Dungeon is also turned based in the end.
Actually, even with game mechanics, leppa berry + recycle or harvest literally destroys, plus putting stealth rock, spikes, and toxic spikes and then just infintely switching out regenerator pokemon also wins
@@kyurei4478 Mystery dungeon is turn based but functions more as if everything all happens at once rather than one person followed by one person. As for the limit to move PP, that is realistic because it signifies stamina (same with the hunger mechanic). Most Pokémon would not be able to fight indefinitely, but moves like discharge or Roar of Time would very quickly even the odds, even with the limited move pools. It would also be able to actually simulate a billion lions all being in one room provided you have the computational power for such a large scale sim as well as simulate intelligence as IQ skills are a thing.
You do not understand how pissed I was throughout this whole video. I swear the easiest way to piss a pokemon fan off is to bring this up.
But lions solo?
too bad lions beat yall 🤷♂
@@unanchoRED1litleos*
@@unanchoRED1 Too bad lions beat Pokemon when the pokemon are not fighting Lions and are instead fighting 1 Billion Litleos... oh wait that's a pokemon-
Everyone needs to chill out with these comments, it’s a funny simulation and nothing more nothing less.
you forgot the 4,294,967,296 different spindas
This guy is doing everything in his power to not talk about Lucario or other fight type running leppa berry, recycle, drain punch, bulk up, filler. Or a grass type running cotton spore, giga drain, recycle, leppa berry, growth. Or any combination of draining move, recycle, boosting move, leppa berry. There are specific rules on smogon against creating infinite battles, and if you break them (which you could easily do inside the available framework of the game) you can prolong any series of moves into infinity.
Even this would work, which i find fun. You don't even need to kill anything
Klinklang would win! Clear body prevents crunch defense drops, base 90 speed lets it outspeed, high base bulk makes it so with max hp max defense and +def nature it takes 24% from max roll crunch crit meaning it WILL live 4 turns, leppa berry gives it PP, recycle gives it infinite PP, rest gives it infinite health and from there it just sits. It can singlehandedly PP stall every single one of the billion lions without needing harvest.
@@thatguyhanzo3468 I’ve got another comment here somewhere but prankster Klefki with sub, cm, draining kids and recycle is the lion killing goat. Literally cannot be touched and can obliterate everything in its path.
Finally, an intelligent comment. I hate the people trying to argue it's unfair to the lions to use in-game Pokémon, and the lions shouldn't get Pokémon stats and moves blah blah. Here we have a comment that gives the lions their fair stats and still beats them. In game. Nicely done.
1 bil lions vs the pokemon, not 1 bil versus pokemon and your headass
Stakataka @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Iron Defense / Substitute is actually better, yea.
- Recycle
- Body Press
The lions will literally never break through this thing.
252 Atk Litleo Bite vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stakataka on a critical hit: 28-34 (8.5 - 10.4%) -- possibly the worst move ever
They'd have to consistantly crit+flinch more than 10 times in a row for Stakataka to just fall, else it can just heal right back up with Rest.
Edit: Yea, with Substitute over Iron Defense, you can avoid flinches and Beast boost gives you the defense boosts anyways.
Damn. This guy would solo no doubt
PP
@@Burnieterr Recycle leppa berry
@@Burnieterr Reading comprehension is hard. I understand. Recycle recovers a held item, in this case Leppa Berry. So you essentially have infinite PP.
The lucky lion:
Level 50 lions??? Dang them lions be juicing at the gym 🏋️
"you'll never use algebra in real life"
...bro using algebra to find out how many lions a Pokemon can KO
While you are wrong most of the time, in these parameters the lions absolutely win. In almost every other interpretation of the situation, Pokémon win EASILY. I appreciate the time and effort that went into this video though. Good stuff.
Good thing to add is that by "the pokemon didn't know the lions would fight" they meant we just decided to take the moves they started with when we caught them or are supposed to catch them
@@ConnorKrohnicles at least that's what i think they did seeing the movesets
You basically said "so in wrong parameters the lions win"
No matter how unfair is the fight, with wrong parameter ANYONE can defeat everyone
nah man 1 billion is a lot
he made the lions too strong here, like seriously lions are much weaker than this
I didn't think TROPIUS out of all the Pokemon would be the key to beating a billion lions.
“He’s a normal type”
Fighting type Pokemon, Ghost type Pokemon or Pokemon that learn counter:You dare oppose us, mortal
They have dark type moves
He's a normal type with Crunch lol Ghost types are dead
Pyukumuku would win
Two words: Cursed Body
@@plushskitz2119 lions aren’t cursed
I like your real life simulation in a game unlike the dummies who use logic like "uh all pokemon vs lions mean, they'd all be stat boosted to knock lions off the observable universe" or "uh going by pokedex entry, machamp alone can yeet all lions into the sun". This is objective, measurable and repeatable.
If we're talking about numbers and stats instead of canonical power, then the lions should be Typeless (or ???) and should have moves that deal Typeless damage as they do not comprehend the type mashup of pokemon, making it a neutral playing field for everyone.
It's funny that the lion does neutral damage to ghosts and steel, lmao
Also the lion stats seem way too high
If so what moves would it have just the moves in this video?
@@bilboswaggings eh it's stats are based on a lion cub pokemon
@@bilboswaggings Literally their stats could all be 1 and the results would be the same.
After looking through the comments, and assuming that the pokemon have the abolity to work as a team. The optimal strategy would be the following.
1. Have Pokemon set up all possible field hazards
2. Have pokemon with extreme speed and baton pass get to +6 speed. Repeat this with pokemon with every boostable stat (including evasion) to get a +6 to every stat.
3. Baton pass all these stat changes to a Blissey holding a leppa berry with Max Health EVs, IVs, and a health boosting nature. Bissey should have Recycle, Substitute, hardboiled, and draining kiss.
4. Set up substitue. With a +6 speed boost and a -1 on the lions (sticky web), it is garaunteed to outspeed.
5. Use hardboiled if low health.
6. Use recycle if low pp.
7. Use draining kiss if you have high hp and pp.
8. Substitue whenever it gets broken.
That's it. This blissey will survive indefinitely while the lions die from poison (poison spikes). Flinches aren't possible since the Blissey would outspeed. And it would take 2 turns minimum to destroy the substitute. And even then, it would take 6 turns minimum for them to kill Blissey assuming they crit every time. If they don't crit, it will literally take roughly 4-6 attacks just to break through substitute. Keep in mind she would also have +6 evasion meaning she has a 66.67% chance of outright dodging all attacks.
Actually any pokemon with a leppa berry, recycle, a healing move and attacking move, or a draining move, substitute, and potentially a stat boosting move like bulk up, calm mind, or iron defense becomes immortal and defeats 1 billion lions without ever falling below half health, and the last two moves aren't even necessary either, just recommended.
The real problem here is that these aren't lions, they're lion-like Pokemon. But also, yeah, game mechanics Pokemon is the weakest interpretation of Pokemon possible.
This isn't how many lions can all the Pokemon fight, this is how many litleos can one Pokemon fight assuming game rules. Which, fair, is an interesting argument in itself, but not the actual question.
pokemon are pretty weak in all media they're portrayed in. The notes on the pokedex don't really mean anything
@@im50yearsold They can breathe freaking fire. How is that weak. You know how they talk about super effective? Everyone on earth is weak to fire attacks.
@@im50yearsold Weak compared to what? Because it ain't weak compared to a lion...
@@im50yearsold Even if we ignore poke-dex shit and most of the random lore about various pokemon, just using their raw abilities they are still monsters.
Celesteela is 30 feet tall and made of pure metal. Hell, most Ultra-Beasts are terrifying. Even beyond that, you STILL have things like Steelix.
It doesn't really matter if you balance the lions into pokemon hybrids stat-wise, the main flaw is it's game logic.
This is literally the ONLY argument you can make for lions.
If you have this battle in the real world, with Pokémon vs 1B real lions, Pokémon win.
If you have the battle in the Pokémon verse, be it 1B real lions or 1B lion Pokémon counter parts. Pokémon win
The only way the lions win, is if you apply the game mechanic logic, which is specifically balanced for playability not the actual "lore"/"cannon"
It's like playing a DBZ game, and picking Yamcha and beating the computer AI Goku and saying "see Yamcha beats Goku"
He doesn't, that's just the game balanced to be somewhat fair for the players, to keep all characters at least somewhat playable.
Yeah, but can a lion attack a flying pokemon IRL? Kinda wierd
You know it’s gonna be a good video when Frank drops in the middle of the night
Earth has like 8 billion humans, presumably, the Pokémon world is too. And a Pokémon like Kyogre, can destroy the entire world with a severe flood and rainfall, and it can even fly! No way in heck a 1 billion lions would win in a more realistic battle!! 😭
Yeah and a billion ain't nearly as big as people think
I feel like the answer is just:
1. Lions win in normal game combat.
2. Pokemon win in a field battle where something like earthquake just hits everything.
3. Pokemon win going off of pokedex entries and nothing else.
I don't think there's any scenario where lions win since you either assume trainer pokemon in which case you can build a winning set, or you assume wild pokemon in which case PP isn't a problem and Koraidon will never lose
@@motherlove8366 They do win in an in-game scenario (and technically in an actual irl scenario), I kinda liked the comparison of a Lion to a Litleo, it makes a lot more sense that a irl animal is remade inside a Pokemon game than the reverse.
They all say "what if Pokemon were in real life against lions?", Pokemon are in real life, just look at your cartridge, make a living dex and chuck it at a single lion, see how well they do in real life.
Plus the dex isn't at all accurate in lore anyway, proof being simply magcargo, no one would feasibly be able to live in its proximity, let alone capture it and use it in-universe, yet they do use him and no one is dying. In lore/anime move types are also inconsistent, considering that Pikachu can hit ground types with electric moves, Ghost types might not have their full immunities either.
the lions still lost based on the simulation, tropius singlehandedly broke the simulation by fighting so long
“They have God” pretty much solidified it lol
I saw this as a pokemon defender, with game logic pokemon are so nerfed. When i saw the goat tropious I knew hed win. There are so many factors when deciding something liek this but i appreciate all teh time and effort you put into this. Finally as always, another banger by Astroid Videos
To be fair, WolfeyVGC already proved that the pokemon can win in a single turn with game logic
Pokemon win in every logic. The only time Lions 'win' is when you have to jump through several logic hoops to restrict it extremely heavily in the lions favor. Even then lions get destroyed by a leppa berry.
Games are the original source material. I'd argue that pokemon are buffed in every other form of media, rather than being nerfed in-game.
@@NatePhan Where are the pokemon getting a leppa berry and how are they learning recycle? Do they have a trainer? The trainer was never mentioned in the question.
@@tejasvenugopal5183 Why are the billion lions not eating each other? Do they have a trainer? The trainer was never mentioned in the question
I would like to say that this is biased the lions had to have planned this in someway why don’t the Pokémon get to also Pokémon not fighting together is so bad for them because support Pokémon are horrible and many of the “strong” Pokémon actually rely on support pokemon
Dude using in game logic only it was already proved that just about 40 pokemons would defeat any amount of lions you want to put against them... because of the nature of double and triple battles and moves that hit the whole enemy team.
A: Big AOE moves that pokemons have like tsunamis or literally necrozmas "taking all light from the universe and shooting it" would only hit one lion. This is an approach that benefits the side with simply higher numbers if a tsunami only hits 1 lion
B: you turned it into a turn based game and assigned the lions types and moves, you made it 1 billion pokemon vs other pokemon.
C: You went based off the game not the lore, while the debate really is "but hes a god" vs "but theres a billion lions" rather than "in the games hes weaker".
Overall, in a simulation that would mimic an all out fight between 1 billion simultaneously alive and independant lions vs one of every pokemon capable of doing what the lore of pokemon says, the lions just stand no chance.
I personally love how everyone forgets how some pokemon have multiple forms, for example there are 4,294,967,296 different variations of Spinda and 8 trillion if you count shinys
Dawg i think his computer would crash if he tried to simulate all of that 😂 plus most spindas would die unless they all have some crazy tech. And they don’t technically count as unique forms in the pokedex so its sorta bending the rules a bit. But if 4 Spindas can take down 1 lion, they’re on pace to win the war by themselves
@@Flapjack3734if lions can hive mind to form a lion ladder I don’t see why Spinda couldn’t do the same
where is schlatt and jaiden, this will settle the eternal argument
LION JACKET
lion jacket!
IVE BEEN LOOKING FOR THIS COMMENT
4:10 Charmeleon is still standing lol
He's build different
Save pokemon society, charmeleon!