ULTIMATE X-MEN - What Went Wrong?
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- Опубликовано: 14 май 2024
- In this video, Owen explains the history of Ultimate X-Men, the behind-the-scenes origin of Mark Millar's ambitious reinvention, and how this version of the iconic mutant team failed to live up to expectations.
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▶ Timestamps:
0:00 - Introduction
1:46 - X Marks the Spot
4:27 - The Tomorrow People
10:35 - Changing of the Guards
15:13 - Conclusion
18:24 - Outro
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#XMen #Marvel #ComicBooks 
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Cause bendis sucks
How about doing a video about Sam Raimi’s Spider-Man Trilogy?
Owen, with the 60th anniversary of Spider-Man coming up, how about doing a 2 part review of one of the best (and controversial) runs of Spider-Man:
Part 1: J. MICHAEL STRACZYNKI’S SPIDER-MAN - Why It’s Great
Part 2: J. MICHAEL STRACZYNKI’S SPIDER-MAN - What Went Wrong?
Basically each part would cover roughly a half of JMS’ run on ASM
The more I think about it, X-Men Evolution accomplished what Ultimate X-Men attempted to do, but just so much better. It modernized the timeline, aged down a bunch of the characters, and appealed to an entirely new audience. On top of that, it was incredibly less douchey and edgelord-ish.
Well said
No wolverine and the xmen comic did that much better than that shitty show
>X-Men Evolution
>tfw time passes by
@@BowmansWorld What are you talking about? Wolverine and the X-Men comic did none of that. It was a goofy childrens book about Wolverine acting as a headmaster of a school attended by students who were all just weird and random joke characters with no real depth. It was nothing like Ultimate X-Men or X-Men Evolution which were both about the franchise getting back to its roots of featuring a team of teenage superheroes.
@@CinemaniacComicsCorner a group of teenage superheroes is not the “franchises roots.” U are a moron the xmen were never about that aside from the original team which didnt stay young long. And how dare u u obviously didn’t understand any of the storylines because they featured extremely deep stories u probably just saw some of their powers and though “joke character.” The shitty cartoon ur talking about was written for children and nowhere near as good as this comic. Watxm introduced peoppe to a new status quo with similarities to the original stories which is why they then adapted it into another cartoon.
The reveal that actually Mutants are another super soldier program just really feels like it completely misses the point of x-men and what makes them work.
You brought up a good point. I always thought it was a decent concept because it just breaks Magneto, and he deserves it for being such a piece of shit. It was cool to see that reveal just blowback at him, but yeah I guess it really does miss the point of the X-Men.
Yeah I agree
@@CruelPizza213 I don't know. I agree with you that that is an interesting thing.
The X-Men have always had a supremacist problem, and it's really taken center stage now. But they were there in the first couple of issues. It's Chris that seemingly took them away(if not the later original stories).
That aspect of the X-Men would be good for deconstruction and destruction because it doesn't make sense. Or it should called out for all of them having some aspects of it.
The x men just don't qualify for a different species.
Even atlanteans are further away from base humans.
And humans changing due to genetic engineering is just as much of a next step as anything. The change is already there.
It could have been quite interesting - done in a Planet of the Apes prequel type thing, because unlike most superheroes soldier projects which they can’t replicate, mutation spreads far beyond their control.
But, I don’t remember much being done with it beyond “America made mutants.”
@@DSan-kl2yc personally, I'd like for them to take the genetically engineered mutants route for the MCU. But I know people would most likely rather have the cosmic origin with the Celestials.
Gotta love they blame the X-Men problems on little mainstream appeal, and not because it was at the forefront of the speculator market that had fizzled out a decade later. I don’t call a comic with a very popular cartoon series, a film, and the all-time record holder for the most successful single issue sold as something with “little mainstream appeal”.
Yeah, it's irritating when anything that has a big following gets updated because "we have to change what is successful to something else"
Strange logic.
That’s true. The X-Men were, and still are, the biggest team in marvel comics. MCU/Avengers be damned. The X-Men are still the biggest team with mainstream appeal.
@@Linklex7 right? Marvel ACTIVELY worked to undervalue it because of Fox’s stranglehold on the license (y’know, the one they pretty much gave away to keep out of bankruptcy), and it STILL remained on top. Only Spider-Man is bigger than the X-Men in the Marvel Universe. Sure hope it was worth sabotaging Marvel Vs Capcom Infinite, a license that straight up did something amazing with the franchise because the developers were all huge Marvel fans.
I think they meant that 90’s X-Men comics had way too many random characters and too many long-running unresolved subplots, so they were harder for new casual mainstream readers to get into.
This is what I find so interesting about the ultimate universe. It started out strong with Ultimate Spider-Man, but as time progressed, it just got more bizarre and complicated.
At least we've got Warren Ellis doing weird sci-fi shit and making the most out of Galactus trilogy
@@volodymyrbilyk555 omg yes galactus and enemy are some of my favorites
Like it’s main counterpart universe 616
@@volodymyrbilyk555 Gah Lak Tus was really good. The first chapter in particular, could be a great adaptation to introduce Galactus into the MCU.
That’s what the real problem was
“Lack of Mainstream Appeal” is code word for “Mishandling of Characters, Bad Writing and Bad Marketing” in most cases.
I like this saying, may I be allowed to use it?
The X-Men were at their height of popularity in the 90s, so for the executives to say they lacked mainstream appeal shows how out of touch they were.
"Am I out of touch? No, it’s the audience which is wrong"
At this point, that could probably be said of American cape comics in general, sadly...
If there was a "problem" it's that titles like Ult Spidey and The Ultimates were 21st Century re-interpretations of classic titles, but Ult X-Men felt like an alternative version of the X-Men movie.
Don't forget that Ultimate Spiderman also wound up being where some of the most interesting character work for some of the X men like Kitty and Ice Man. Heck when they rebooted a team with those two and Johnny Storm they were literally taking most of Peter;s supporting cast for that new team.
Thats because the movie was the only reference Millar used
I like parts of ultimate x-men honestly I like wolverine initially being a double agent
Eh ult spidey was the only good book from the ultimate universe. It was the only book to be constantly good throughout its run, and didn’t have weird incest angles like the ultimates did.
@@Ultimataco highly disagree
I think the big problem with Ultimate X-Men is that the characters' flaws got larger than the characters' heroism. I mean, for God's sake, Wolverine straight-up tried to murder Cyclops over Jean Grey.
I think that was the issue with the ultimate universe in general, with a few exceptions. I think the issue with the "morally grey" trope is that, as readers, we want to see characters that we want to be aspire to be like, not those that show our...darker traits.
Homophobic nightcrawler.
@@darthjoc Absolutely nothing wrong for anyone to dislike gay people. He stuck by his faith instead of pretending it as okay.
@@celestialsoldier622 Ok bigot
@@darthjoc Why am I not surprised? This nihilistic bullshit has Mark Millar's stink all about it.
I just want to remember that Ultimate Cable is actually Wolverine, because you never have enough Wolverine.
If there's one thing X-Men comics need, it's more Wolverine.
@@OwenLikesComics man, we need a video on Wolverine publicity
The first Old Man Logan
Just relaunch the whole marvel line: The Amazing Wolverine, Uncanny Wolverine, Incredible Wolverine, Wolverine Man without Fear, Fantastic Wol4rine, The Wolveriners, etc
A complete insult to the character. Ultimate Apocalypse was done really well. Ultimate Cable was just a travesty.
It is weird to me how obsessed the Ultimate Universe was with making everything related to SHIELD
Or making everything also about the supersoldier serum
It has to start somewhere lol
just like the MCU....
@@ironmaster6496…in Phase 1 and 2. Phase 3 moved away from SHIELD pretty harshly to the point where I personally forgot they were a part of the saga (until Nick Fury showed up of course).
Oh, and at this point SHIELD has dissipated among the various “secret societies” that has polluted Phase 4 and 5.
@@jasonnguyen2575 They just outright replaced S.H.I.E.L.D. with S.W.O.R.D.
The Ultimate Universe is such a mixed bag. You have absolutely amazing stuff like Ultimate Spider-Man and really weird stuff like Wanda x Pietro. Great video Owen.
I a like the ultimate universe up until an after ultimatum
True it's a mixed bag forsure It really felt like the ultimate Spider-Man titles were pulling the weight of this universe imo
I really don't understand why they did this. What were they thinking?
I still get a good chuckle thinking of the wiki page that compiles the fate of the Ultimate Xmen. Half the List of Ultimate Marvel characters either Drowned or were Eaten by act of Cannibalism. What a weird experiment.
You ain't wrong on any account, they should have brought someone who offered a bit less edgy feeling to the X-Men during the ultimate era. Grant Morrison's run overshadowed even the core X-Men book of that era which was Uncanny
haha!
Grant's New X-Men was the "core" x-men book when it was coming out.
I'm a huge fan of all the 616-universe X-Men books, but Ultimate X-Men never really clicked for me. I think I now have a better understanding of why that is. Excellent video, Owen!
Same.
I could never get into it either, man I tried.
because they were dicks in the ultimate verse.
The longer it goes, the worse it gets. There were a few good ideas, but mostly it just became 'edginess for the sake of edginess.' Ultimatum was pretty terrible, but at least put the line mostly out of its misery.
I rather ultimatum than the new 52 Superman well the new 52 universe as a whole other than the new 52 batman my problems with ultimatum is y they use magneto outta all people why him they should have used thanos but that we make sense(and yes thanos got as far back into the 80s or 70s he not just some new character) if thanos was in the ultimatum it would make sense because he is a simp with black Air Force energy
It's almost like hiring a guy who had no idea of the Xmen shouldn't be writing Xmen
x men rule number one: you can't be a multimedia X men in the 2000s without the damn black suits
The Ultimate black suits were really cool tho.
Honestly the ultimate suits were what I would have preferred for the live action suits if they could done that.
@@anispidey Overall, I think it makes sense for the X-Men to wear identical uniforms.
@@vetarlittorf1807 What's cool about these suits is they have uniformity while still being different for each member. Like how the original X-men's uniforms from 616 were blue and yellow but looked the same. In the ultimate universe it was black and yellow now but everybody's looked different you know.
@@anispidey I agree. I always preferred the X-Men wearing the same colors, but each uniform having slightly different designs. It makes them look distinct from the Fantastic Four (who wear completely identical uniforms) and the Avengers (who wear uniforms of their own designs).
That's why I always liked the Ultimate suits as well as the Grant Morrison designs.
Jeph Loeb and Ultimatum is what went wrong. But Ultimate X-Men run itself is so great especially the Blockbuster arc which DD appears art by David Finch.
Ugg...the ending was so Anti climactic. It was fun seeing wolverine with spider-man and daredevil but the story lost its way quickly.
It's weird that Loeb was serviceable at DC and downright insulting at Marvel.
I agree
@@volodymyrbilyk555 Spider-Man: Blue was pretty good.
@@joshheralal8758 his marvel “color” minis were definitely good. Ultimate X mini was good too
It felt comically cynical, at times. Like the early Weapon X dialogue. Even the X-Men themselves sometimes went too far into increasingly gray areas, that they were nearly unrecognizable compared to their comic counterparts. Compare that to Ultimate Spider-Man, where characters and storylines were revamped, but with a fresh take that really got the overall tone and themes of Spider-Man, without compromising his (or any other characters') morals.
tbh I thought that Kitty had a more interesting arc in Ultimate Spider-Man than in the Ultimate X-Men comics
@Sinmenon
I agree she was more interesting in the Ultimate Spider-Man then in the ultimate X-Men comics and I loved her relationship with Spider-Man,
Unfortunately writers wanted him to be with MJ instead and so both characters were broken up and fans were very divided on the decision
BMB seemed to know what to do with her. Me thinks Bendis should have wrote the first few issues of UXM to get an overall vibe then get someone who understands the X-Men after he leaves.
When The Blob eats The Wasp on panel you need to put down your pencil and think...
Cmoooon it was such a good waste of ink. It’s like hank pym drew it himself
Ultimate X-Men i thought was a very interesting series and tons of fun and honestly I was sad it got killed thanks to the terrible ultimatum destroying the entire team.
I grew up with them offering ultimate comics free on marvels website during the dial up days. I remember reading the first few issues, I don’t know how far they went doing them online but it was a big deal In the early 2000s. I’ll probably never read ultimate X-men because of the way it ended, it just feels like a waste of time.
@@fishin4bass2002 same here as well and honestly i got into the ultimate universe not in its prime unfortnately but a few years later thanks to the ultimate Spider-Man video game.
@@TevyaSmolka I preordered the ultimate Spider-Man omnibus, I heard it was good, I’ll probably read it eventually but probably stay away from the other ultimate series.
@@fishin4bass2002 ooh awesome 😎
As someone who absolutely loves writing and hopes to be a writer for a comic company, seeing videos on what NOT to do with these characters is fascinating. Ultimate X Men had so much potential but got destroyed by ignoring their core traits and changing what made us like them in the first place. I'd love to write my own original X Men series one day, so seeing how bad others have screwed up gives me SOME faith I could write something good
@Magnus Malo
X-Men: Evolution did the X-Men much better than ultimate.
I loved ultimate X men… I remember at one point he writers brought back characters that were supposed to be gone without explaining how they came back.
Just finished the Blockbuster story and have to say it was a nice break to read Bendis’s take on the characters after Millar’s dense and cynical dialogue and high concept action scenes. I love Millar, but his stories are exhausting.
These were the first comics I ever read and I love them so much! Might be nostalgia talking though.
The Ultimates was one my first as well; it’s definitely shows us age; but for me at least there still something endearing and completing about the ultimate universe in general.
My first comics were Savage Sword of Conan, and a few issues of Batman, with the Rhas Al Ghul story about Bruce becoming his son.
Then I went to garage sales with my mom and she got me a full box of various DC and Marvel, couple indie titles, books from the late 70’s through mid 80’s. I found a collected Phoenix story book, with the story having Jean actually dying in the end, and I was hooked.
Ultimate ff #2 was mine
There's nothing wrong with having a different opinion. It's totally ok to be a fan of this book. I'm glad you liked it and started you on a path toward comics!
The main problem was that for every interesting new idea IE the constant aura of ambiguity around Xavier, and the general mistrust of psychics. They threw in a 616 idea to offset it. The Phoenix, for example, was the worst thing they introduced into Ultimate X-Men.
The Sinister/Apocalypse reimaging was a brilliant twist. Cable being Wolverine from the future, was not.
Emma Frost being a school teacher, sharing a romantic past with Xavier, good. Then just making her the 616 member of the Hellfire Club for no reason, wasn't. Beast being killed, was poignant. Resurrecting him, was a terrible decision.
One step forward, two steps back. That seemed to be the mantra of Ultimate X-Men.
I tapped out of the Ultimate universe with Ultimatum. As I'm sure many did. That is where Ultimates and X-Men ended for me.
It actually got better aftee ultimatum when kitty pride lead the new team
Ultimate X-Men was like reading a fanfic especially with how weird they made Jean Gray act as a young teen
Especially since they have Jean full on sleep with Wolverine in The Tomorrow People.
X-men was like fanfic pretty much ever since Claremont left. The dip in quality and consistency was maddening up until Morrison came along and then it went back to utter crap and nothingness between big events. In contrast Ultimate X-men were still mediocre but at least they weren't ridden in terminal clusterfuck.
She’s 19 years old in the Ultimate Universe, not a young teen.
Especially that weird as relationship with her and pedo Logan. Always hated that pair tbh, it felt force and uncomfortable.
@@TheWazzoGames Logan was like in his 30's though
I feel like divorcing characters from their generational relationships was a big mistake from the beginning. Scott Jean Hank Bobby and Warren shouldn’t be strangers. We read X-men for the drama not the action or whatever they were trying to sell us on during the Ultimate X-men run.
True. Xmen is like soap opera, but cool.
@@MirzaAliQasimRaza
So a soap opera
@@MirzaAliQasimRaza
I agree it is a soap-opera that's why the 90s X-Men show, X-Men evolution Wolverine and the X-Men, and the shortly lived X-Men anime were good
The 2000's was a weird time for X-Men. Sure Grant Morrison was knocking it out of the part with New X-Men. But that was a single book. Claremont's UXM run was bad. Austin, taking over from Morrison, was worse. Ultimate X-Men was too much a product of it's time. The whole tone of it screams early 2000's now. The roster being only the most popular, adds to that.
The new introduction to Warren though, was very well done.
@@pious83
I completely agree, imo the 2000s
Was the most messy time to be a X-Men fan, Grant Morrison's X-Men was good in the beginning but it went downhill with the Xorn/Magneto twist, the FORCED/Cheating relationship between Scott and Emma Frost, the FORCED relationship between Logan & Jean, Prof. X having an Evil Sister who he tried to KILL in the Womb of his mother (the 2000s was a decade when writers made Charles Xavier look like look like villain),
Jean Grey dying AGAIN for no REASON whatsoever other then to push Scott & Emma together,
Joss Whedon's X-Men is OVERRATED & Doesn't hold up after rereading it today
Dope video! Would love to hear your thoughts on Joss Whedon's Astonishing X-Men.
Thanks so much!
Isn't that the one that starts with the mutant cure storyline?
@@BradLad56 yes and the alien prophesy shortly thereafter
Every video you make about the ultimate universe just makes me wish that the Ultimate Universe could have come about today rather than twenty years ago. I really want to see what a version of the ultimate universe could look like in the 2020’s
The MCU...
I would love to see a reboot of earth 1610.
Maybe, after the whole story of the Maker trying to remake (no pun intended) the ultimate universe, we could get that.
Still, i think that the MCU it's probably the closest we'll ever get to a less edgy, more 616 accurate version of the ultimate universe (even if it isn't flawless as an adpatation)
@@thegreatavenger5471 didn't the ultimate universe get teased in the newest venom comics?
@@badtaketom7116 Yeah
When i was talking about the story of the Maker wanting to remake the Ultimate Universe, i was talking about Venom
I feel like X-men has always been a morally complex, has always focused on its character's relationships, and has always had a darker edge than a lot of the other Marvel comics. The Ultimate X-men had some of that, but ultimately it was just the edgy X-men.
I really like reading the comments on people's experiences with the Ultimate Universe and Ultimate X-Men in particular
For me it's like a lot of the things in the early 2000s where it's not very good but it's nostalgic in a very specific way that I just can't get enough of, and I love to revisit things from them and let them have the effect on me that they would have if I'd been old enough to understand them at the time instead of just a baby. Also I really love the art and Ultimate X-Men I still collect single issues that I find at dollar bins and comic book shops and stick them up on my wall. The character designs in that Universe I also really like because they remind me of the X-Men: Legends video game I grew up playing, which was the movies was my first introduction to the characters.
Basically I'm really glad it's there even though I can acknowledge that it's incredibly flawed the weird step in the X-Men's history, I just find it fun to revisit.
Does this mean we're gonna get a fully fledged video for Ultimate Spider-man?
100%, its just a matter of when.
besides Spider-Man, every other ultimate titles felt like it wanted to be different for the sake of beign different, then we got some really weird stories, man, like i wish i can forget them
I actually enjoyed Ultimate X-men a bit more when the big players where killed off. Allowed them to actually try and move the X-men in a totally different direction. I was really interested when they put the mutants on a reservation of sorts and they were building up their own nation. Though it was right before Secret Wars happened so that never finished.
I mean, Hickman’s X-Men is basically the final evolution of the “mutant nation” concept introduced in the Ultimate comics. So that’s neat
@@halfmettlealchemist8076 That concept was introduced back when Genosha was claimed by mutants.
Yeah, that idea's been passed around for a while. Hickman's just the guy who actually took it to its logical conclusion by worldbuilding the shit out of that concept
When i did work on my X-men series for my marvel universe i used some elements of the ultimate x-men comics like the x-men having black and yellow uniforms also having Magneto set up shop in genosha when he saved mutants from a Russian prison as well as having Proteus be the younger hafe brother of leagion and the true father of Xavier but using some elements of my own like having Magneto daughter polaris at side to help show he not a monster as well as having Emma frost start x-factor with her own mutant team almost like the academy of tomorrow
@comic book reviewer
Where can I read your X-Men story
I'd be curious in reading your X-Men story.
I LOVED the Ultimate Universe so much every run of ever book. I was devastated we it ended. The art. The darker stories. The long lasting consequences. Everything was so good
I'm right there with you, I enjoyed every title until after ultimatum, mainly because I quit reading after the event besides spiderman. But even ultimatum, I don't mind that story, it's okay, it was meant as a way to just clean the slate of characters and I think it did what it set out to do.
Reading through Ultimate X-Men I always felt like a lot of it was awkwardly written, and focused too much on having "kewl" things happen than presenting coherent stories - even through different writers' runs. The run I enjoyed the most in the book was Brian K. Vaughan's, as I felt it put a good focus on developing the cast well and also presented some cool different takes on X-Men concepts.
Millar's initial run had a lot of what I think is prevalent in many of Millar's books: things that are there to look cool and edgy but don't make much sense, and then some character comments on how it's silly. A lot of it felt like quick story drafts rather than finished story arcs. It got better as the series went on and Return of the King was indeed a standout for the series, but Millar's tenure never properly clicked for me. Bendis' run also feels awkward for me, like he wasn't sure what to do with the Ultimate X-Men. His first story arc in the book didn't even have the full team, just Wolverine and some guest stars which happen to be the characters he always likes to shove into his Marvel books, and then he only did one more arc (which was in fact better than his first). And maybe this is why Vaughan's short run after that seemed better to me.
Frankly I found Robert Kirkman's run completely terrible. It displays every complaint I have from the rest of the series but amplified. You cite his Apocalypse arc as a standout for the book but unfortunately I still think it's pretty bad. The short run following that by Aron Coleite (I had to look up who was the writer) doesn't stand out much since most of it is just Ultimatum tie-ins. There's the Banshee drug arc before the tie-ins which was interesting and a bit of a breath of fresh air, and one of the only parts of UXM that I think couldn't be done with the 616 team, but in the end wasn't really remarkable.
I actually never read Ultimate Comics X. :P After Ultimatum I guess I just felt burned out with Ultimate comics, and in fact I think I only read like 8 random issues of all the post-Ultimatum line.
I thought Ultimate X-Men was great for the most part. There were a few arcs or story beats I didn’t care much for, like Nightcrawler being homophobic and kidnapping Dazzler, or Absolute Power. I thought Hard Lessons (going by the tpb volume titles, volume 12) was pretty underwhelming.
Nonetheless I loved a lot of this series. I genuinely prefer it to The Ultimates and Ultimate Fantastic Four. Y’all wanna talk about edgy for the sake of being edgy, or a revolving door of writers, look at those two series.
Ultimate comics got me into comics recently, and I liked most of the universe, even the ultimates and fantastic four despite their problems. I really liked some of the twists the series made to characters, ie Mr. Sinister, The Shi’ar, etc. I also loved the outfits, and Storm’s goth punk era lives in my head rent free. UXM has its flaws, but I won’t be able to forget it any time soon.
I have similar feelings about the Ultimate universe. It’s what got me into comics, and I read everything published up to the Ultimatum story, which I thought, while way over the top graphic violence and some dumb decisions, as the last story in the universe, it ties together threads running throughout the universe’s entire run, and the epilogue issues wrapped up the characters as well as you could, since these things never really end.
I loved the Ultimate Universe, we got a lot of good stories and characters out of it. Hell Sam Jacksons Nick Fury and Miles Morales both come from the Ultimate Universe.
The Ultimate Spidey comics are what got me into comic books, but it was the Ultimate universe as a whole that got me into Marvel (and other shared universes). For all the good and the bad that came with it, it was fascinating to read about this world as a whole with some many unique characters and points of view. I read through the entire saga, finishing off at the Ultimatum event and really liked how the universe had a beginning middle and end(-ish. I know it continued on, but Ultimatum worked as a bonkers ending to this already dark and edgy universe, like a gigantic what-if universe). I’ve bought the entire set in trades and love it, warts and all.
The Ultimate Universe videos were even how I found your channel Owen! :)
I, actually, was a huge fan of the Ultimate X-Men when it started. It was a great update and restart to "the strangest teens of all." I enjoyed Jean's confidence and Storm's inexperience. They were just a great mix. But as time went on, the stories struggled to stay up
I will never forgive Ultimate X-Men for their mishandling of my favorite mutant, Nightcrawler. First, they make him a traumatized weapon X, but then they turn him from nice guy to intolerant jerk who then has a full-on mental breakdown and KIDNAPS Dazzler and tries to gaslight her into believing the rest of the team died. WTF! When someone mischaracterizes a beloved hero as badly as that, well, that's when I gave up on the Ultimate X-Men. (The creepy Professor X professing his romantic love interest in a teenage Jean Grey AND also have developed telekinesis powers were also contributing factors) But mostly it was their treatment of Nightcrawler. There is no redemption for such a character arc. Like Ultimate Hank Pym, there are certain acts that an audience won't tolerate. You essentially break these characters because the Ultimate Universe is more like our modern society and therefore the consequences are more real. I feel as though Millar or whoever wrote that arc didn't know what to do with Nightcrawler or punk goth Dazzler anymore and decided to ruin them.
Love this channel's coverage of the Ultimate Universe. Ultimate Xmen and Ultimates + events like the Ultimate Galctus trilogy in my mind are far better than the 616 counterpart. The far more grounded and gritty feeling of the Ultimate Universe makes it far more interesting, although I've never been the biggest fan of F4 to begin with and Ultimate Spider-Man dropped the ball pretty hard after Venom. Still, I would have loved for more quality stories to have been made pre Ultimatium, and I feel like it would have helped the universe's longevity in the public eye. Your Ultimate Universe videos have been great, and I appreciate the coverage of my favorite early 2000's edgy take on Marvel.
well 3 epic things that i can see in that cover art of the thumbnail
Cyclops, Colossus, Wolvie etc
i always thought they did look good in their Ultimate versions
i know many people disliked the fact that most of their tactical outfit looked too much the same
some of them looked great to me, also did liked ROGUE and some others
and the fact that X-MEN LEGENDS 1 and LEGENDS 2 video games where made after this timeline gives some Nostalgic values for me
again some of them looked badass as hell
I haven't really fully read much of anything from the Ultimate Universe (which is saying something for me because I am a big fan of alternate reality stories), so I can't really judge on whether it was good or not. Though some of the things that would probably turn me away from it is Magneto being a straight-up terrorist king instead of a morally-ambiguous Holocaust survivor, the sexual tension between Wolverine (who is a fully grown man) and Jean Grey (who is a TEENAGER), and most obviously... the creepy Pietro/Wanda relationship. Though my biggest problem with it would be the fact that the X-Gene is a natural result, but an unintended side effect from an attempt to recreate the Super-Soldier Serum. For me, that just throws the whole idea of them being physical representations of the minorities in society, and replaces it with them just being living weapons. I'm not going to say I could do better if Marvel hired me to write an X-Men story, but I would honestly steer clear of those pitfalls.
Yeah, by removing his back story you lose a lot of Magneto's character.
@@pious83 agreed. I never read any of the X-Men comics Chris Claremont wrote, but I would think he was definitely in the right headspace when he made Magneto a Holocaust survivor, because it gave the character a reason to hate humans (he's seen the worst they have to offer up close and personal).
@@Inky-Wells Exactly. When you base Magneto's motivation on simply seeing himself (and mutants) as superior. That doesn't make for a compelling character. As evident in Ultimate X-Men. He has good stories in this line. Magnetic North is a good example in the video. But his backstory is lacklustre, to say the least.
To get an idea of Magneto's motivations done right. I'd recommend a single issue. Magneto #0 (1993). They attempted to retell Magneto's origin story a few years ago. But made it needlessly convoluted. Ignore that and just read this.
@@pious83 so I did some reading of Ultimate Comics: X and Ultimate Comics: X-Men as of late (and I'm currently doing some reading of the original Ultimate X-Men stories), and while I stand by what I said about Magneto not being as compelling of a character in the Ultimate Universe as he is in the prime universe (which by the way, I read the first part of Magneto #0; pretty dang good story if I do say so), I admit that I may have been a little too quick to judge the direction the X-Men mythos went after the events of Ultimatum.
Admittedly, the X-Gene being an accidental result of the Weapon X Super-Soldier program may carry a bit of stigma to it considering that it was part of the Ultimatum event, but I would be lying if I said it put a damper on me reading the X-Men stories following out of it. While there were some moments where I felt things were getting a little iffy (like Pietro's plan for "saving" the Mutants not making a lot of sense to and the unresolved plot of Mr. Sinister manipulating Pietro and Rogue behind the scenes), it was an overall really good story.
Now I'm getting into reading the original Ultimate X-Men stories, though I'm doing it in reverse order of people who wrote it. My reasoning being if I can enjoy what the other four writers have written, then I can force myself to choke down nearly 30 issues of comics written by a Scottish man who knew barely anything about the characters he was handling.
The mutant gene being a result of a new attempt at the super soldier serum was a late adition to the ultimate universe mythos, in all fairness. And though I might be wrong and have nothing to factually base this statement on, it really feels like it was thought out backwards to fit into the revelation scene in Ultimatum. Like I said, this wasn't a thing until close to the release of Ultimatum, when this mini called Ultimate Origins (or something like it) came out with the intent of... Well, explaining the origins of the ultimate universe XD. There it's also revealed that Peter's dad worked alongside Bruce Banner on reinventing the super soldier serum, which resulted on the Hulk and all and I think that's when Peter's dad dies (????). It also contradicts tons of stuff already stablished in prior series, which bugged me a lot at the time. Anyways, this series was in preparation to the Ultimatum event, and the feeling I get is that Loeb had that Magneto scene planned to play out that way and really believed that was a good idea, so Bendis, the writer of Ultimate Origin (if I remember correctly), had to shoehorn that in, because it makes no sense otherwise. In fact that's How all the series that led directly to Ultimatum feel, being Ultimate Power another prime example of that. The characters are twisted beyond what was stablished from them at that point, the situations feel forced and straight up dumb, such as the characters' own decisions.
...Man, I really hate that era, that was the first time I felt betrayed as a comic book reader.
Another great video Owen! Was looking forward to this one.
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it!
Really good video dude personally I was kinda enjoying is the enjoying the ultimate X-Men when they added Jimmy Hudson because it seems like they were trying some new interesting stuff new interesting stuff Kitty was the leader and the X man were trying to start their own little land which is kind of similar to what they're doing now
Thank you!
@@OwenLikesComics Wow did not expect you to comment and you're welcome
Jimmy was fine, aside from the magical metal claws.
Amazing video essays as always, thanks Owen
Thank you, Mauricio!
Very interesting. Great information, thank you.
Ayy, Full Fat guest appearance. Legit underrated channel.
Owen, you knock it out of the park every time
Thanks so much, Joshua!
Just had RUclips suggest this video and I really enjoyed it. You have a new subscriber!
Thanks so much! I really appreciate that, Steve.
To be honest the ultimate X man feel more like the Inhumans with the mutant genome that the Canadian government spread around the world being used like a terrigen mist.
Fantastic video! Can’t wait to see you talk about Ultimate Fantastic Four.
I don't honestly have much more to say on it right now than what's in the Maker video.
The only part of the Ultimate Marvel line that felt legitimate was Spider-Man; the rest of the line was just a bunch of dark, edgy nonsense that mostly forgot about the fantasy and wonder that's supposed to be in comic books and Ultimate X-Men was no exception. It got MUCH better after Millar left, however. I wonder whatever happened to Jimmy Hudson? There has been a gajillion symbiote events since he got one and he hasn't pooped up yet. Where is he?
@BlackPhoenix77
Honestly X-Men evolution did a much better job of reimagining the X-Men for the 2000s and it did it all without having to ruin / character assassinate any of the characters and histories that they have with fans,
X-Men evolution is the best Marvel cartoon right behind Spectacular Spider-Man, Avengers EMH, and Fantastic Four world's greatest heroes,
As the best Marvel animated shows of the early mid and late 2000s/2010s
(Spider-Man the new animated series deserved another season)
Ultimate Peter Parker died from carrying the Ultimate universe on his back
@@robertdetres747
Ultimate Spider-Man died because of ultimate cap Nick Fury and The Punisher,
@@robertdetres747
Everything that you said is 100% true Ultimate Spider-Man carried the entire Ultimate Universe on his back and as a reward the writers killed them off
Which was a direct result of ultimate cap Nick Fury and ultimate Punisher,
@@naquingreen1603 atleast it gave us miles morales.
Cyclops was always unstable when it came to Jean there. It made me question if he should be leader
Joining the brotherhood
Leaving Xavier in a ship to die
That was a great vid! And wow, your channel is massive! Way to go!
Thank you so much!
If Zach Snyder was ever tapped to direct the MCU X-Men, I doubt he'd use any material other than the Ultimate X-Men stories. They have just the right amount of edge for him.
This series was so good at one point. Stairs, no keys no face
Brilliant video! I’m glad I subscribed
Thanks so much, Greg!
I actually enjoyed Ultimate X-Men up until Ultimatum. It wasn't perfect but It was a refreshing take on the X-Men.
5:00
"Professor Xavier. Magneto has made his move. Recruit a group of teenagers with attitude!"
This was when i started falling off the X-Men and really just pop in from time to time to see what happened to my fave muties growing up. They were like a second family before Ultimate.
I’m mad the ultimate marvel universe ended cause a lot of wild shit happened but I did see they’re going to be reviving the series so I’m highly ecstatic it’s been so many years
I think the reason why Spider Man worked while all the others failed is because It had a solid Idea and a great execution: A young Spider Man in the New Milenium. You can see the writer has a lot of respect for the Spider Man lore, and It treats with respect. And that's the key word: respect. All of the other series don't seem to have any ideas or concepts beyond deconstruction and edgy. It is the characters you know and love, except everyone is a scumbag.
Excited to see what Peach Momoko does with Ultimate X-Men
Honestly,I started watching & reading X-men bc of the X-men Evolution series and im happy I did 😁👍🏾
I liked this series until a little bit after of the Stuart Immonen and Brian K Vaughn arcs. Also, don't care what anyone says, the costumes look siiiick
They do look better then the movie ones I say make em black but can you at least make em more styleized
The Immonen/Vaughn era of UXM was the best. I was not a big fan of even Millar's take compared to Ultimate Spider-Man from Bendis.
I Like Immonen's art style
I did get this at the start of it`s run a few years later I stopped getting comic in general thanks for updating me on how it ended it`s a shame as the series was fresh and started strong.
After this, I think it’s time you touch on the Ultimates 1,2 and 3 honestly. Namely 1, and 2. They had a huge impact
Amex at most I checked out from my local library the first three volumes of ultimate Spider-Man and volumes one of two of ultimate fantastic four I never actually read any of the ultimate X-Men but honestly I think I might want to give it a chance. A lot of the comics I read growing up was from the early and mid 2000s so something like this would be right up my alley.
Do a video on All new All different marvel x-men
Enjoyed this video soo much
Whole all-new x-men storyline into x-men blue would be great; I love the time displaced x-men!
oh, The Tomorrow People storyline! I remember that as bonus content from the videogame Marvel Nemesis: Rise of the Imperfects.
What an obscure time capsule of a game that was.
Awesome review, and I greatly agree it was a missed oppotunity.
Ultimate X-men was a fantastic run. Ultimatum literally killed the team and the X-men as a whole
I love your videos as a request can you review all five volumes of Injustice Year One since the animated movies coming out in October 19th it could be a perfect time to look back on it
best thing from the ultimate x-men is kitty pride for me, specially in her interactions with spider-man
Of course you can mix in some 616 concepts but for the mcu introduction to a mutant team I would choose the ultimate version with maybe Kitty also added.
Your absolutely right, the X-Men Ultimates wasn't really different from their 161 counterparts because of the 1st writer's lack of source material - readers wanted the X-Men but with different & unheard of battles and awesome events and characters.
*616*
I remember reading Ultimate X-Men as a kid and saying "wow this is just like the movie" now it makes sense
Short Answer, *MARK MILLAR* just saved you 20 minutes.
Another banger from Owen
Thanks, Alex!
Love this channel.
Thanks so much!
I really enjoyed a the Post Ultimatum books. With the creation of their own country, it was very much foreshadowing the eventual Karoka stuff.
I unironically love how batshit crazy ultimate X- Men was.
This was a pretty good insight about the Ultimate X-Men. Could you eventually do other Ultimate line-up like Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, or the Ultimates?
I talked about the UFF in depth during my recent Maker video. As for the others, I'll consider it.
The Ultimates upto Grand Theft America (the best Avengers story ever, imo) is great. After that...
Unlikable characters? check
One-off villains? Check
Hackneyed stories? Check
Rushed endings? Check!!!!
Hit the nail on the head. While there are elements that did well and had neat reimagining of thing overall they leaned a bit to heavy with the common status quo. They either played it super safe, so swung for the fences.
I feel like the question why happened to Ultimate *Blank* is usually answered with Ultimatum and that is definitely the case here
I'm not a fan of the Millar's Run, but man, I love Ultimate Comics X-Men from Spencer, Wood, Medina and etc
One thing l like alot about ultimate x-men,the creation of Jimmy Hudson aka the new wolverine aka wolverine's son
For me, it was killing Spider-Man and not punishing the guy who shot him, Ultimate Punisher.
I see that Ultimate X-Men and modern X-Men have something in common. Deviance.
I always felt that the Ultimate Universe should've consisted of Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimates and Ultimate Fantastic Four. They shouldn't have done Heroes Reborn. The ultimate universe could've been Franklin Richard's creation. The X-Men, being the most popular and profitable franchise, would've continued the original universe, dealing with the fallout of Onslaught. Ultimate X-Men, to me, never found it's footing.
11:27 so that's where they got the idea for cables attire in Deadpool 2
The current Xmen stuff is sooooo good though. Loving Krakoa.
A reboot done right!
These where the comics I where reading in real time as a kid and I really enjoyed them. I liked how cut throat they where.
Were*
My favorite part about this comic is when Wolverine, the best assassin of Magneto, who I guess it's an expert in espionage just gave up all his orders and the plan for some teenager love
bro bobby straight ice with the way he ragged up