ULTIMATE DAREDEVIL - The Forgotten Marvel Superhero
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- Опубликовано: 3 июн 2024
- In this video, Owen and Matt Draper explain the history of Ultimate Daredevil, the original ideas for this reinvention of The Man Without Fear and what caused the character to be killed off and forgotten.
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▶ Timestamps:
0:00 - Introduction
2:00 - A Devilish Beginning
7:57 - What Went Wrong? (feat. Matt Draper)
14:48 - Conclusion
19:40 - Outro
▶ Music Used:
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‘Memories’ by ‘Lukrembo’
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#Daredevil #Marvel #ComicBooks 
Развлечения
“Like most Ultimate characters not named “Spider-Man”, Daredevil is an asshole.”
If that doesn’t sum up the Ultimate universe, I don’t know what does.
That sounds good for spiderman comics like it would make him stand out. They should make ultimate dc everyone is like lobo or macnhester black and superman is the only sane rational guy. Who is like Look I get this is a stressful situation but can we not kill people that surrender I wanted to ask him a question. SUperman could be transport to a mirror world or something and just have him either improve the world slightly or have it break him
@@daraghokane4236 "They should make ultimate dc everyone is like lobo or macnhester black"
Wasn't that the New 52?
@@alexandrefrauches132 No because superman was darker too. And Lobo was toned down
@@daraghokane4236 You should read Morrison's Superman and The Authority, it works pretty much like that
Spider-Man is also an asshole tho but like how he was during the stan Lee run. Kind of a cynical tortured lonely dickhead but the best of em all
This character perfectly illustrated how the Ultimate Universe stopped being relevant as the 616 became more gritty and "real and grounded" enough that they started to occupy the same space but without the edgyness. Reimagining DD as a more realistic story didn't make sense because in the original universe they were already tackling mature themes that the UU started with as a basis that made it seem new and fresh, so DD had no reason to evolve and develop inside the new universe without it going into insane territory.
They could have done a grounded Daredevil were The avengers and spiderman are comic characters he is the only guy that has a power. Kingpin has no power just conections and hes fit, bullseye just has good aim not a power, the owl half the time has no powers they don't matter he is a mob boss, Tone down Mats powers. Purpleman can't exist in this
@@daraghokane4236 I guess they could have also connected his power to the super soldier serum as that was the catalyst for everything from mutants to Spidey. (Which is one of the things I like best from the UU for a reason I can't explain lol)
@@daraghokane4236 so...... Basically Netflix's Daredevil?
@Enigmatic Problematic🍻 yes that's what I mean it has been grim and gritty and more real world grounded than when the UU kicked off
@Enigmatic Problematic🍻 yeah maybe mix the way the relationships between Fisk, Elektra, Matt and everyone else could've been changed way more. Make Fisk to be Murdock's uncle or something else like that. give it a more personal investment into the dynamics of his personal life
I think that Daredevil could've worked in the Ultimate Universe if he was a contemporary of Spider-Man, a teenage superhero as well. They could also foreshadow his future career into becoming a lawyer.
Yeah, that's would be like like Iron Man: Armored Adventures where they have Tony, Rhodey and Pepper be teenagers in the show and still heroes.
I know this is a year later but they had a chance for that with the second Ultimate Daredevil only to kill him off after three issues. There was so much potential in Raymond Connor
... I should finish watching videos before making comments, they ended up bringing Ray up.
Ultimate Daredevil was such an asshole especially towards Spider-Man.
Can't wait for the video
Fantastic work as always, Owen! Thanks for having me on to talk about Daredevil, who is definitely not me.
Fancy seeing you on a Daredevil video.
I mean, I havent seen Daredevil and Matt in the same room...
It was such a joy seeing you here
"What went wrong?" Well for starters he was in the ultimate universe.
Lmao
Damn I actually liked the ultimate universe. Ultimate Spider Man is still my favorite comic book run ever and I actually liked Ultimate Fantastic Four too. Oh well lmao
That’s a little harsh. Lol. I really enjoyed Ultimate X-men and Spider-Man
ultimate universe isn’t bad it was actually really enjoyable
@@ttt9830 No, you're just thinking of Ultimate Spider-Man.
Everyone but Spider-Man in the Ultimate universe was a jerk. I always enjoy your Ultimate Marvel videos!
Even Spider-Man was full of angst
@@rnspurgn3015 Understandable teenage angst. Compared to the rest of the Ultimate universe, that's nothing.
I felt like the writers and editors were trying too hard to make the characters of that universe "edgy" and "complex", which created the opposite effect and made the characters seem cringey and sort of goofy.
@@drinkmorewater3212 it worked for spidey as it is an important part of the character that isn’t always touched on, but is still a part of his history. Meanwhile everyone else just seems, weirdly out of character despite being a different rendition.
Almost. Ultimate Maria Hill was surprisingly reasonable and cool headed, specially compared to her 616 counterpart.
The thing that really drove me nuts about that Ultimates arch was spending an entire issue on Perun, a throwaway villain from a previous story that most people have probably forgotten about, telling us all about his background, his relationships, his ambitions, his desire to matter more than just his previous crimes...all just for the punchline of killing him off in a single panel.
Not that I cared about Perun--nobody cared about Perun, probably--but this was the best possible indication that this franchise was done even pretending it wasn't just wasting our time anymore.
Refresh my memory: wasn't it a vampire incredible hulk that killed him? I vaguely remember the hulk saying perun was "10 for a penny amongst black ops" or something like that...
@@propheci: Yep: Millar had previously created "Nerd Hulk," a clone of the Hulk that had all of Bruce Banner's intellect intact.
Then he instantly undermined this character and ensured nobody would ever care about him by proclaiming that this took away the Hulk's "edge" (whatever that means) and rendered him completely ineffectual...for some reason.
Millar being MIllar, now that he'd gone out of his way to create a character he had no idea what to do with and ensured nobody cared about him, he killed his Hulk off--by turning him into a vampire.
This was actually a great idea, since Vampire Hulk is a terrifying concept for a bad guy, and here we had a ready-made formula for it that didn't demand infringing on the real Hulk character at all. So hey, handy that, finally something to salvage from this debacle.
Then they just killed Vampire Hulk too. Of course.
On top of that, this was actually one of TWO replacement Hulk characters Millar created and then killed off, in a series that only lasted 24 issues. At least the other guy hung around for a year or so; nobody liked or cared about him, but ya know, readers at least had time to not care...
Would have been better to make UDD either way older or really young, so either he’s an old man who protected the streets of New York in secret along with a group of other street level heroes, becoming a inspiration to spider-man maybe showing Peter some moves on how to fight if he ever runs out web or can’t jump.
Or make him the same age as Peter or slightly older, he’s a law student or captain of the debate team, an unassuming disabled kid who shares a class with Peter, he’s always hid his abilities and knows how to fight as he’s trained this helps his abilities.
Him and Spidey meet up on a mission and it goes well, UDD teaches spider some fighting techniques which Spidey teaches him some acrobatics.
Peter who can heal faster starts noticing Matt is injured in school and thinks he’s in an abusive household so he goes to help him, only to reveal he’s daredevil.
These would have been easy ways to introduce the character and it not feel like he’s absent from the universe, show him as being weaker than Spidey so when Spidey becomes and Ultimate it’s very easily explained why Matt does have a book, he’s just simply fighting street crime, could even have him say “I’ll keep the streets safe when you’re up there spidey” creating a unique version of the character while sticking to who he is at his core. Just have him appear every now and then in books, he doesn’t need his own area because he can easily share it.
Agreed that would have been cool especially if they go with the younger version of DareDevil and have him be a sorta reflection of Peter if he was darker and more brutal but did not kill people and have his powers be kore supernatrual based but not OP
Your videos are always a must watch Owen. Using Daredevil as bait to lure in Matt Draper was also just an inspired choice. Hope to see more Collabs from you guys!
Facts. Crazy he doesn’t have more subscribers
I’ll watch anything Owen posts
Daredevil is such an underrated character. My favorite in marvel behind only Spider-Man
I'm more of a DC guy myself, but Daredevil is still my number one hero. Such a fantastic hero to root for. I was always disappointed in Ultimate Daredevil, since Ultimate Spider-Man and Millar's run on Ultimate X-Men were some of my favorite series as a teen.
I would kind of love if Marvel (or DC, honestly) gave the Ultimate thing another go now. Not bringing back the Ultimate universe, but giving exciting creators the chance to create a new alternate universe from scratch and carry it on over a few years at least. I worry Marvel wouldn’t be able to do that now, with the Mouse in control and keeping an eye on brand synergy, but it’s a cool experiment. Earth One could’ve been that for DC, had it been better thought out.
Earth one was like the ultimate universe for Dc but no they missed out big. The latest Batman earth one was good but the ending felt rush like he just wanna get it over with.
I'm pretty sure Disney has no control over the Marvel Comics, only the movies.
DC kinda did that in the 80s with their reboot. And they tried again with new 52 before reverting back.
You would never guess what they are doin
I think one of the reasons why the ultimate daredevil is so underutilized is because writers didn’t know what to do with him since the Frank Miller run has been so iconic and so beloved that they did not know what to do with him. I actually prefer the Kevin Smith run of daredevil. But then that’s just adding on to Frank Miller anyways.
*writers
I remember buying Millar’s post-Ultimatum Ultimates in a stack of trade collections to read when I was recovering from dental surgery, and I swear they stung more than the weapons-grade toothache did.
Say what you want about his first two Ultimates arcs, at least there it felt like Millar was *trying* to put together a decent story, but that post-ultimatum run just felt like he was taking the piss out of both the characters and the reader.
And I can say alot of positives about the first two Ultimates arcs the alot of the other Marvel related stuff oh boy what positives can I say there's barely any
I did think the summation got really silly when it became about vampires
Nothing like making war machine someone who’s perfectly fine with innocent casualties
But Millar didn’t write Ultimates after Ultimatum?
▶ Quick correction: Steve Dillon was the artist of Ultimate Avengers 3 and the co-creator of Ray Connor, Leinil Francis Yu was the cover artist for Ray's first appearance in UA #13.
I love this version. He's more brutal and brooding but I do understand why he went nowhere. Because is basically the same version as his counterpart in general. Same origin, same suit, same old. Marvel clearly didn't know what to do with him or make it different than the 616. But I love all his appearances especially in Ultimate Knights & Ultimate X-men Blockbuster arcs.
As someone who has always enjoyed the ultimate universe for its attempts at reinterpretation, I can agree that Daredevil was definitely a missed opportunity in the Ultimate line. And I remember when I first read Ultimate Avengers and when they almost immediately turned DD2 and killed him, my only thoughts were "Okay, but why was he a daredevil though?" Wish they did more with our favorite blind boy.
when i did work on Ray connor for my Marvel universe my intentions was for him to be the son of the French ambassador and would of ended up blinded when his mom died saving him from terrorists and would be train by Matt to become his sidekick and help him on the right path as i would have Daredevil station in chicago and when moving to New york Ray connor would become Kid devil and would deal with crime more his own style and his mom spirit would end up becoming shroud a phantom like superhero that can use people bodies and skills almost like deadman from DC comics
My thing is that UDD was that it was just TOO similar to that of the 616. Maybe he could have been a judge blinded during an attempt on his life.
Owen + Matt + Daredevil = a perfect comic book video. Great work, guys!
A big reason why Ultimate DareDevil was overlooked was because DareDevil was already going strong in comics at the same time, with Bendis himself writing and Alex Maleev providing some amazing artwork. That, plus the fact that Ultimate DareDevil/Murdock wasn't fundamentally very different from the traditional version made the whole run rather pointless. As someone who bought and collected back then, I didn't feel the need to follow any other DareDevil story but the Bendis/Maleev run.
I really love the Ultimate Team-Up with Spidey, DD and Punisher, especially the scene depicting Matt's enhanced senses.
After seeing Matt always commenting in your videos, this feels like a longtime coming.
Something about Matt talking about Draper just makes me happy bro. Great video
As you mention in your video, the OG Daredevil IS already an „Ultimate“ superheroes in a lot of ways. They should have just been more brave and do something completely different. Just thinking on my feet, how about combining Moon Knight and Daredevil into one character where instead of an Egyptian God he sees the devil, since the costume? I dont know. Just SOMETHING different would have been cool.
hey that sounds awesome
@@Justice_eagle15 It could not be any worse than all the crap we got in the Ultimate universe, right?
Might as well throw a little bit of ghost rider in that mix too since moon knight and ghost rider have similar power acquisitions
Blind, is the vessel of a demon/devil, controls fire, when he pulls back his mask, he uses soul judgment
I just noticed that the panel of Peter holding DD is a homage to the death of Superman, how did I not notice that! 😂
I mainly read Ultimate Spider-Man and I enjoyed when Daredevil would guest star- and I remember being disappointed when I tried to search for an Ultimate Daredevil series only to find out he only ever had that Elektra prequel series.
Honestly I never hated how his death was handled. It sucks that he died off screen but I enjoyed seeing Peter’s POV of finding him and the tragedy of finding a fallen hero that you can’t even recognize who they are underneath the mask (tho of course that’s also a continuity error that I didn’t catch till this video). I think his death would’ve been better if he had his own Ultimate Daredevil solo series where we were with him when he died, and in general he really should have had his own solo run
I knew he had a successor in the pages of ultimate avengers but I never read those comics myself, but hearing their story now WOW what a train wreck. Everything to do with Ultimates between 2 and the Hickman arc involving the Maker seems like complete nonsense trying too hard to be different from 616.
Honestly, while I like comic books and graphic novels, I haven't read many in the last couple of decades. That's why I like channels like yours. I can catch up on favorite characters of my past. One of my all time titles was the Marvel Team-Up when Spidey was the main 1/2 of the team. I especially remember the edition where Spidey and NOVA tried to solve a murder. The solution is on the cover, I think. The Ultimate universe sounds like Daredevil could've been so much more.
The way i always intended to do Daredevil in my marvel universe is set him up with a Teamup with Spider-man when Kingpin and Tombstone would team up together and be from Chicago and would be a mix of his main marvel and Ultimate comics as he would be hard on spider-man for being a kid but would later learn why he became a hero making him realize he was a lot like him and would also have Ray connor be Daredevil sidekick when he was blinded himself and became Kid Devil and be station in new york and be Spider-woman team when dealing with the Hobgoblin uprising
I honestly didn't know Daredevil was even in the Ultimates universe
I really liked Ultimate Daredevil & Elektra
Too bad it didn't continued, was one of the first books I read of the character
Though i'm not the biggest fan of the Ultimate Universe, Owen's videos about it are probably my favorites. I'm fascinated by the Ultimate Universe and respect its attempt to be its own thing. Sadly though it lead to heroes (except Spider-Man) being jerks, Captain America being conservative trash, incest and cannibalism.
I mean, Ultimate spider-man was definitely a bit of a jerk. In a realistic teenage angsty way though, not an edgy ultraviolent psychopath way.
Captain America would be Ben Shapiro. Would own the libs, but would get triggered by John Lennon.
@@mahoganywolf8843 He was NO WHERE near a jerk compared to the other heroes.
@@marko-gj1uj cap would be confined to a lab for vivisection after the gov gave up on sending him to sensitivity training lmao
If you enjoy making these videos on ultimate comics character, please keep doing them! I enjoy them since I've never read ultimate comics other than Miles. Hope you do captain america next!
Congrats on 70 thousand subs! I love watching your channel, such great and interesting content!
Hopefully you can reach 100 thousands subscribers by the end of the year!
Thanks so much, let's hope!
I love your videos. This deep dive into the making of characters and story arcs, be they failures or successes, speaks volumes to the complexity and effort that goes into comics that is sometimes ignored. Thank you for what you do, Owen!!
I'm not sure if it's mentioned in the comments but Elektra dies after getting a moon blade thrown into the back of the head by Moon Knight. I think it's Ultimate spiderman issue 85.
I love your channel and Matt’s, this video is amazing.
Always excited to see a new video from you
Always nice to see a crossover between youtubers I like.
Great video as always
Fantastic information, thank you.
Wasn’t aware of this channel but clicked on it because I really enjoy Matt’s videos. Love what I’m hearing. Subscribing and checking out your other videos.
Thanks so much! Glad to have you here
Ultimate Marvel and Walking Dead were my entry into comic collecting, mainly because they were mostly self contained universes without decades of baggage. It helped they they were sold in volumes of hardcover books that looked nice on a shelf, well until Ultimatum ruined everything including the book covers.
I realised I wasn’t subscribed this whole time, I’m sorry I love this channel.
They did daredevil dirty in this universe.
I just found your channel, you have gret videos. Would love to see a video focus on that ultimate knights tittle and all of its characters.
Great channel, great work and congratulations 😊🏅🥇👏👍🎖🏆🎖🏆🎖👍👏👍🎖🏆
Had no idea there was a replacement Daredevil after Murdock died. The fact that he was basically teen-Matt Murdock really sucks, and yet despite that I still somehow feel bad for him getting turned into a vampire and then dying anyway. Maybe Marvel wasn’t financially bankrupt anymore, but creatively?…..
It put such a big smile on my face when I suddenly heard Matt Draper's voice LOL! I literally just clicked on this video out of boredom, and had no idea that it was a collab LOL!
Great video 👍
Man, they really dropped the ball with the ultimate incarnation of DD.
dope channel my dude!
Thank you!
I wished Ultimate DareDevil would've had more comics. I'll read Ultimate DareDevil and Elektra along with the entire Ultimate Universe.
I need more videos on the Ultimate Comics! Love this channel! ❤️
What a cross over this makes me smile makes me happy
Ultimatum was just like Onslaught... without a Heroes Reborn equivalent.
I always forget Daredevil was in the Ultimate Universe. Awesome job Owen, and fun appearance from Matt. Should have known, Matt is like Beetlejuice if you say Daredevil enough.
ooooooooo, it's my man Matt Draper talking about Ultimate Daredevil. It ain't Darecember but this was a nice extra treat.
I can't remember who wrote it but I remember reading an article about how Ultimate Daredevil just didn't do enough different, and then when they killed Matt off, his replacement was STILL exactly like him which is unfortunate and silly. I'm a huge Daredevil fan and never checked out the Ultimate Daredevil stuff.
Well researched and informative, if however a disappointing look at what transpired. I coincidentally dropped off on the ultimates line around the time Jeph Loeb started on it, so saw the heights of Bendis's run on Spidey and the start of the decline of the whole concept.
More 90s comics series pls! ❤️
Great video, per usual. Always coo hearing Mr. Draper talk about the catholic ginger dressed up in a coo Devil suit
I want Earth-1610 to come back. What happened to Earth after Reed from that Earth came back there.
I'm waiting. I'm waiting. I'm waiting!
Always loved when he teamed up with Ultimate Spider-Man. Sad they didn't do more with the character.
I love Daredevil. He's my second favorite Marvel character behind only Spider-Man. DD is also my 4th favorite Super Hero behind Spider-Man, Batman, and Superman
I have this Digital Comic Book DVD of the first volume.
At least we know that there is a new version of the Ultimate Universe out there.
Kid! Daredevil was wasted potential in Earth 1610 and reeked of Mark Millar's typical "Hahaha this superhero would get REKT in a realistic setting" type of writing.
Thinking more about it, a young blind teenager rocking Matt Murdock's yellow suit who's faith hasn't been severely tested by a corrupt status quo would make for a compelling title in the mainstream line of Marvel comics.
Why did Mark Millar Retcon that Ultimate Daredevil was supposed to fight vampires? The fuck?
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Logan's death was wild
That image of Black Cat & Elektra 😍 Damn, those 2 women are drawn extremely well
I liked everytime DD appeared in the Ultimate universe, despite his presence being only quick and done he had some competency and maturity to contrast Spider-Man. Even him being pushed into breaking the rules and trying to kill Kingpin was interesting.
And then they killed him offscreen in Ultimatum, and even worse they bring a new Daredevil that dies in the same story he debuts.
It felt like Larroca was everywhere in Marvel for a while.granted I don't get many comics at the moment. What is he up to?
Talk about Kieron Gillen's Eternals for your next video.
I’m curious to see how bad this comic went.
A certified hood classic
Ultimate Avengers 3 might not be the best story, but it was drawn by Steve Dillon and I think his art was actually pretty strong in some sequences. Hopefully you can add a correction that actually credits him for his work on the book.
My mistake: Dillion did a really good job on the art and I should have credited him. Leinil Francis Yu provided covert art for DD's debut issue, Steve did the interiors.
Man, No Way Home and Multiverse of Madness got nothing on this.
Yeah. Draper and Owen are like the Mega Powers, except less steroids and racism.
I feel like even in 616 he is definitely one of the most realistic characters.
Hi Owen
" a parade of sadism"
Sounds like invincible. And the replacement characters are so far removed from iconic and have no personality that their deaths mostly don't matter, or get any time.
I remember Ultimatum - I didn't have a lot of cash flow at the time (being a kid) so I ended up buying That One Spider-Man issue with what I had without a lot of context for... literally anything happening. So my one contemporary taste of Ultimate Daredevil and Ultimate Hulk ended up being 'dead and kind of a jerk' and 'Not Automatically Composed Of Raw Terror'. Kinda disappointing to hear how poorly DD was used before that point.
Way late to the party but...I'd say the whole "asshole" aspect of the Ultimate line is directly related to Mr. Mark Millars involvement.
Honestly, mark Miller literally IS a huge lover to assholes apparently
Real Daredevil fans pretend this doesn't exist so that we can just act like Shadowland was the real low point in modern Daredevil comics
I am starting to think that Ultimate Marvel was the New52 of marvel.
As a Daredevil fan just now seeing this video for the first time I must say. WE DO NOT CLAIM HIM!
they have a version from the ultimate universe?
Hey owen. I was wondering what is your favorite fantastic four run?
Good question - I'm a huge fan of the original Lee/Kirby run, but both Waid and Hickman's takes are fantastic too.
@@OwenLikesComics I really love Hickman’s run. I need to check out the original run from Kirby and lee
Its sad that the ultimate marvel universe didn't make daredevil fantastic and badass.
DAREDEVIL !!
I didn't even know there was an ultimate DD...
To be fair. I do think ultimate Daredevil was kinda right for being harder on Spider-man since he was a kid who really didn't know what he was getting himself into and ultimately kinda right since being Spider-man did eventually kill him
While I agree with this video's assessment of the Ultimate Daredevil character, I did appreciate his different relationship with Peter Parker. The way he looked down on the younger Spider-Man felt realistic and earned, if harsh.
I felt like i was being trolled hard with Kid Daredevil, here i thought maybe they'll get him into the Avengers cause he's skilled and what not. Nope.
Ultimate Knights shows that ultimate daredevil actually had a lot of potential (if kept in the hands of a good writer like Bendis)
The placement of lots of the Ultimate Universe's versions of famous marvel characters was really screwed up, and it's part of why I'm not super high on it as other people seem to be. Even people like The Vision, Hercules and yes, Daredevil ended up sorta just getting tossed to one side without that much thought and it ended up making it feel like there were only 3 or 4 pillars to the universe that ever actually mattered.
This is all new to me; I never really got into Ultimate Marvel.
Maybe if they had done something more original, like having ultimate Daredevil be Foggy instead, then the character could have stuck around. Having someone different under the mask, with a completely separate background and morality could done wonders for this version.
Look how well Ellie as Daredevil in Chip Zdarsky’s Run has been received, because it’s something different, fun and exciting. No, Daredevil shouldn’t be a “ mantle character “, but there, we know it’s only going to temporary for as long as Chip sticks around. Which is fine.
The whole purpose of the ultimate universe was to reimagine the characters, and they didn’t do that with ultimate Daredevil. So he’s been forgotten…
Only when you mentioned romance did I realize you were talking about Elektra and not Electro