It was hilarious that in one of the runs everyone was shitting nonstop on Cyclops' horrible crime after he diedm making him out to be history's greatest monster... And then it turned out his horrible crime was changing the terrigen mists so that they did not murder mutants anymore.
Yeah... I do like the Inhumans... but the terrigen mist was a fucked up thing. More so when it was for all intents and purposes... a russian roulette, even those with the Inhuman potential at least half of them got out of it dead(the lucky ones) or horrifically deformed, even those that were "successful" had to pray that their power didn't demand extreme discipline of them. By letting the mist be, Medusa and Black Bolt technically did a chemical attack on the world, and when the people who were most suffering for it did something... they got pissy and played victim.
Pretty sure, that was because Ike Perlmutter was trying to kill the X-Men at the time, just because he didn't want comics advertising Fox's movies. At least that was the rumour circulating the net back then.
@@Verebazs I wouldn't call that a rumor. It was clear they didn't want any property they didn't have full control over being popular. Couldn't call Wanda and Pietro mutants, they were no longer Magneto's kids. Couldn't say mutant at all, and the inhumans were their replacement. Hell, even marvel vs Capcom 3 couldn't include the most popular fan-favorite characters, and they mainly had to be characters that had movies or story lines in the MCU at the time. The game even made Spider-man unplayable with every move being a dragon punch motion which is difficult, while Taskmaster had the same moves that were stronger and had very easy inputs. Its the little things that add up.
@@courvewait which characters are you referring to? You might be thinking of MVCi cause their was a big controversy of them not adding any of the X-men to the roster. Also, the reason it was so controversial was because the x-men are extremely important to the series. The first game was just an X-men fighting game and the first actual crossover was X-men vs street fighter.
None of these actions make him a "villain". This is Cyclops at his peak. I don't understand understand why people label this era Cyclops as a "villain". Just because Avengers fought him? What part of this version of Cyclops is not heroic? He saved the mutant species
As a hardcore Cyclops fan (hence my profile pic), I find a lot of other hardcore Cyclops fans to be annoying. They act like Cyclops is some perfect paragon who can do no wrong, when in actually, Cyclops' failures and questionable actions are huge aspects of what makes his character interesting
Oh definitely. I loved him in New X men having his existential crisis about his stoic nature and coming to terms with the merging with Apocalypse. The idea of him and Jean clutching onto each other in desperation in the old days and wondering what they now were? It’s so much more interesting than just “he was a boy, she was a girl”. It’s like with Jean. I love the idea of her as the Sanctimonious bully that, with the Bendis era Teen Jean, tries to avoid her worst behaviours.
Not a cyclops fan boy, but he has always been one of my favorite characters because of his fall from being the paragon you think of from "God Loves Man Kills" to the decimation of the avengers and xmen and then back to an antihero type
That conversation between Cable and Cyclops where Cable acknowledges Scott as his father, and tells Scott that he should stop before he would be killed both physically and in the eyes of the public was amazing. It sticks with me. One of the few conversations they had, and the only one I can remember where Cable acknowledges Scott as his father. A beautiful analog for Magneto and his children.
This is some of the craziest spin I’ve ever heard. He never wanted to “Eradicate” people who disagreed with the mutant cause with the Phoenix. He used the Phoenix to undo Scarlet Witch’s “No More Mutants” spell.
@@siritalis4956 Yes, but from the beginning Cyclops wanted Hope to have the Phoenix because one way or another it was going to restore mutant kind. It was Iron man’s interference that caused Cyclops to have the Phoenix. Cyclops never intended to have it.
@@hummingbirdcity Once he did have it he ended genocides in Africa, gave free energy to the globe, and established water sources in desolate places. He didn’t go Dark Phoenix until like the 5th time the Avengers attacked him.
Cyclops didnt fall down.. he simply focused himself to the task as the commander he was raised to be. X Force was amazing. If someone proved this child was the only hope of your race what would you do? Also i loved his dialog with Cap.
left of the part where every telepath tried to bang him lolz. Got weird when Psylocke tries to make it a 3way while Jean and Emma are duking it out. Then you remember that Mr. Sinister added that trait to make sure "Cable" was born and it never switched off. Poor Madylene!!!
Not sure i agree with some of your takes but love the video! He was only really defined as a “villain” in the framework of marvel comics we were meant to view him as such but it kinda backfired around this time and readers rallied around him Related regarding Schism I always thought the event made little to no sense with Logan as the opposing side and it should have been Storm. The argument itself was so odd when you realize X-Men were trained since they were teens to begin with
Especially with the Decimation, Civil War and World War Hulk happening around that time. Frankly, the moment I grew to dislike him was a mix of Namor destroying Wakanda and Scott knocking Emma out. What can I say? Emma’s great.
Yes I would say during AvX (which I consider to be just poor character writing across the board) is where you could argue the most that he was acting villainous even then he was going off what Cable told him/had his hand forced by the Avengers. Besides that I wouldn’t consider any actions pre or post villainous more just morally grey out of desperation…unrelated agreed Emma is great always 😂
@@christopherhart4058 Frankly, AvX and IvX were bad. They were little more than using a team that they didn’t have the film rights for to prop up the lesser team. I will say, proud of Beast for continuing the Original 5 tradition of doing heinous things when opposing what they believe to be an extreme leader. I wasn’t a fan of the first run of X factor because of all of guys’ secret keeping, Scott being awful and Warren trying to get with Jean when Candy Southern, a Saint, was his girlfriend and running his company for him.
Yup completely agree with all of this. Marvel “vs” events are particular bad but I should go back and read the original X-Factor run now that you brought it up I’ve only ever read the Peter David runs. I do want to add I’d like a video to examine Beast around this time you could almost argue his actions were almost worse at points
@christopherbennett5858 Remember, Cyclops didn't choose to become the Phoenix. None of the Phoenix 5 did. It was the Avengers who, in an attempt to stop Hope from getting the Phoenix, inflicted the Phoenix on the 5. Oh and how did the Avengers defeat the Phoenix? By doing a 180 and giving it to Hope. Which was what Cyclops wanted to do in the first place.
It's the opposite for me. Cyclops was my favorite while I heavily disliked Wolverine. The only Wolverine-related character I really liked was X-23. It took a couple of years before I appreciated Wolverine, though mainly Hugh Jackman's version.
I always found myself annoyed by how everyone treated Cyclops as this horrific monster. A lot of X-Men condemned Cyclops for X-Force during Second Coming, and for the longest time I wanted to jump into the panels and tell them all to grow up, their race was on the brink of extermination and hard choices had to be made. I also really didn't like how he was treated for killing Xavier. Look, it was wrong, he shouldn't have done it, but the writers have gone on record to say he was being influenced by the Phoenix at the time, and whenever that was brought up in the comics characters just dismissed that. Jean Grey killed billions of aliens when she was Dark Phoenix, but she was instantly forgiven by the others, and they even fought to protect her. I know it was retconned that that wasn't Jean after all, but the X-Men didn't know that at the time! The only difference between Cyclops and Jean in this scenario was that Cyclops killed someone they knew, while Jean killed a bunch of faceless aliens they hadn't met.
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Cyclops has always been my guy. My hatred for Wolverine is infinite lol. Cyclops is literally the guy who always did the right thing and got fucked over anyway.
Can anyone tell me why or what's so bad? I heard he was buddies with Norman obsourne that can't be right? Can it? Completely uninitiated on current Spidey stories
He was a revolutionary not a villain. Man said child soldiers but he was teaching them to defend themselves if they get attacked. Cyclops did what he thought was right to protect his people and he didnt sugar coat anything. Cyclops was right!
In fairness he was basically reading Wolverine’s lines at that point. If my grasp on the timeline is right he’d already been friends with Magneto for a while, and Magneto had been asked by the X-men’s PR if he’d consider dropping the red outfit as it could be seen as revolutionary and he’d told them to get lost. The whole period was really a load of ‘revolution is necessary in the circumstance’ vs ‘yes but are these means appropriate’ stories
I mean, they're still child soldiers, Wolverine was in the right saying they should be moved away. First ones to die in a battle would be the weak, untrained children.
On one hand, sure, but on the other hand, if you have child soldiers fighting, that's risking your entire future, cause if they die, who knows if you could replenish your numbers and you could go extinct. There's also the fact that, unless you do complete _GENOCIDE_ of the human race, those children will, not maybe, _will_ hate humans and we'll go right back to where we started regardless of whether the roles are swapped. A revolution without a an end is just endless violence.
Cap was, but more so Wolverine who was egging the Avengers on and telling them half the information because of his bias against both The Phoenix and Cyclops.
@@christopherbennett5858Funnily enough bringing back an older version of Beast is how Marvel's resolving it. The version of Beast who teamed up with Wonder Man has been brought back to take down Current Beast.
@@Timewarpiaman The Beast from New Defenders. When Candy Southern was the leader Aka me wondering if the host of the Cerebro podcast has been giving story ideas lol.
Funniest part of the era was Beast bringing the OG x-men to the future to stop Cyclops "by any means necessary", only for them to switch to Cyclops' side after like 10 issues. Also a bit annoyed that he referred to this action as being before AVX when it was after.
@@finnanbreathnach4729 Yeah it was after when Cyclops formed his own X-Men recruiting newly created mutants. I found it funny how Cyclops was sent to prison and was in there for like a couple issues max.
This was the era of X-men I got into reading the comics with. Seeing Scott Summers in the position to have to make the hard decisions when the mutants backs were pushed against the wall like never before made for some fantastic storytelling and I was there for it. When he could do nothing but defend, he had to figure out how to go on the offensive.
The X Men finding out the Prof. had intentionally enslaved the Shiar AI; Danger (Room), made the team look at him a lot differently around that time as well. In "Astonishing".
Schism era cyclops was where i truly came to respect the character. Read bits and peices of the saga along with x men vs the avengers and knew about the all the events that happened during this time (house of x, no more mutants, civil war, krakoa/genosha, etc). I loved cyclop's transition from the ideal golden boy of the mutant race to being it's leader and eventual savior through preservation. Also liked the fact that he took on more of magneto's idealogy and slowly backed away from professor x's ideals (nothing wrong with them, but with the way charles was written during this time, it slowly caused a rift everything cyclops was taught....).
also it's not like he backed away form Charles's ideals full stop. he wants coexistence, but didn't want it on the backs of mutants looking like second class citizens. all cyclops wanted was mutants to live in peace without being hated, mutants to stand up to oppression/bullies and the governmental officials to back off on their treatment of mutants.
Thanks for doing this video Rob! You covered the X-Men pretty well there during my favorite stretch of Marvel. A little correction there; The Bendis titles, All-New and Uncanny, came after Avengers Vs. X-Men not before. Beast brought the O5 team back as a last ditch effort to get his old friend to admit all his wrongs up to and killing Xavier. I personally liked what they did with his character. I like when the big 2 do different and interesting things with their characters. We have decades of these characters being eagle scouts. It's good to shake it up once in a while. Take care and peace.
Cyclops was like the Captain America of the X-men. So seeing his values that he holds dear be twisted and altered by trauma was ingenious. His fall from grace made him more empathetic as a character.
I loved parts of that Bendis run. It had so much potential with the new characters we were introduced to and Cyclops continuing to build his team up. If I remember correctly, he even made peace with Havok and it looked like Havok would join him. But Axis or Secret War plans derailed everything and the run ultimately meant nothing in the grand scheme of the characters. Even Dazzler's dark/emo phase was forgotten, and I thought it was the most interesting thing the character had ever done. So yeah.... maybe go back and look at the Uncanny run of Bendis in detail. I'd like to remember those days with a little trip down memory lane.
You a little out of order. Avengers v X-Men happened before cyclops started saving and recruiting new mutants. Otherwise wow ur bringing back so many good memories, I have all of these major story arcs. I loved this era of cyclops.
I was a marvel wiki reader as a kid so him be out of order in AvX was a little enraging. But he still delivered Personally marvel comics was at his peak during civil war to secret wars
Beast bringing the pasr x-men into the present and Cyclops leading the mutant revolution was after Avengers vs X-Men, not before. Also this video is very biased against Cyclops, because if Cable Cyclops knew about Hope's importance, it wasn't just a supposition, Bishop was a psychopath during that era, he endangered countless X-Men. Also Wolverine was the ultimate hypocrite, criticising Scott for putting children in danger but he himself was willing to kill Hope who was still a teenager. Last thing, during the Revolution era, Cyclops never forced anyone to fight with him, on the contrary.
Also yes odd that he says he forced people to fight with during the Revolution era when I can legit remember an issue of Uncanny where he let one of the new recruits go home after training. Also when Beast brought the O5 to the present they eventually go with Cyclops and the rest of the X-Men not with Scott at the time agree Hank was in the wrong. Not to be picky of the video but I legit just did a speed run of that era of X-Men
@@christopherhart4058 Honestly, fair. You did the research, Frankly, I feel like, at that moment in time, after Academy X, I wasn’t really Team Cyclops or Team Wolverine. I was Team Dust and Team Martha Johanson. Because I just wanted them and the rest of the kids to get out of it okay. Necrosha is probably my favourite event of that time. Because of Selene and Destiny.
@@christopherbennett5858 Necrosha ruled! Anything involving the younger mutants around that time was really solid. I actually prefer Utopia to the current era sort of a hot take.
There's a well explained context behind that. The speculation that Cable goes crazy and boycott everyone to takes Hope for his purposes; or Bishop was mad and wants to kill Hope. In the end, was the Bishop alternative. Scott lets Cable takes Hope to gives her protection and a childhood that he never could give to Nathan
Man, some of this is just blatant misrepresentation of what happens, both Cyclops' actions and the actions of others. Imo, at the end of the day he's the reason we're able to have the Krakoa era today. He is THE xman!
I agree completely! And I am sure other parties would disagree, from THEIR point of view, which would be equally valid! See, THIS is the type of story that is PERFECT for the new MCU resuming in 2025! _"How far are you willing to go to avoid the extinction of your own race?"_
I think the official "Big three" of the X men should be Cyclops, Storm and jean Grey and when Jean dies the new big three would be Cyclops, Storm and wolverine.
@@thatonkgau5221 I'd say it should be Cyclops and Storm as the leaders of the team and Jean mainly as the emotional/mental anchor then when she passes that aspect splits and it becomes almost a "big four" between the two as well as Rogue and Wolverine. The MCU Wolverine obviously shouldn't be the major focus he was with FOX at all, his storyline already has the potential of becoming redundant.
@@dawb86 Hell Yeah, that's kinda what I was going for. Storm, Cyclops and Jean are the original big three of the X Men. Cyclops and Storm are the leaders and jean is the emotional anchor, the mother figure and heart of the X men giving them hope. And When Jean dies Rouge steps up to become the new heart of the X men giving them hope. Wolverine is obviously the warrior of the group.
Super biased take against Cyclops. For example, an entire class of mutant students were nearly slaughtered. They were trained to be soldiers for their survival. Mutants exist only because of Scott.
And this happened because, during the Decimation, the Academy X books lost over 40 kids because William Stryker and Nimrod had their buses blown up, children sniped, forcibly amputated and murdered. Meanwhile, the Avengers were all focused on their competitive tool measuring contest known as Civil war. And the kids had to fight back. Made me feel sorry for Dust afterwards.
@@RaGiAn87 You can't read comics and think Cyclops is a villain. The entire dynamic of the Krakoa and post Krakoa age is based on dynamics set by Cyclops in Utopia.
Cyclops' heel-turn in the last chapter felt more like an editorial decision than the natural flow of the story. Most of AvX shows the X-Men fighting for a better world for as many people as possible, while the Avengers were only interested in maintaining the status quo. The only way that could end where the Avengers don't look like villains was to have Scott & the team go "mad with power", which was frankly out of character for them. Yay for Deus Ex Phoneixia!
Truth, the xmen's logic made sense. They kept trying to say it didn't then threw their hands in the air couldn't. I have so many thoughts about that run but it boiled down to this, they wanted Scott to be the villian so they broke the story to make him one.
Man, a perfect summary. People like you should talk to Marvel to handle the scriptwriting for the movies. People with passion and who know how to summarize without losing the essence. Great video
Rob PLEAAAAASSSEEE keep making X-men content. I’ve stuck with your channel since my literal childhood. And everytime you release something I watch it, but I don’t click on it nearly as fast as I do anything X-men
I would like for you to cover "Cable& Deadpool". Probably needs to be a mini series, but you have already covered all the bigger happenings it touches. The even older Deadpool stuff is pretty great too.
I'm not a comic book guy but I love this channel! The guy is so passionate about what he loves and he's really good at telling a condensed story even if the audience has little to no reference points.
That all ties in. hope is shuttled to the "future" for safety while Avengers VS Xmen plays out. only the future is unsafe as fuck cause for some reason Bishop decides she's better off dead. And just as that is reaching a crazy do or die climax where Bishops nukes a 100 year period of the timeline (hence a back story for why Kang The Conquerer can't just travel to the past at his lesiure) , a mind controlled Deadpool pops up and leads they to the one thing more dangerous than Bishop, Tyler/Stryfe cables evil clone with the absolute full power set. Even better, the x-force team sent to rescue them only has close range attacks against a guy who is already their equal, but but has long range strikes, mind taking, and reality bending lolz.
AvX was the first comic i ever read, and I found that Cyclops becoming the main antagonist by the end of it was really cool, I'm starting to get into X-Men more and I'm excited to see Scott's development as a character throughout these books.
Omg that was all my teenage years reading comics resumed on a video! To be fair at the beginning People were complaining about the way that cyclops was being written but im glad they kept him that way, he becomes a more complex character and drops away the good boy persona that People usted to associate him to also, his black-red costume with the x visor was badass! Loved your video man!!
Hard disagree on this take, man made mistakes no doubt but saying he was a villain? comparing him to Vader? I think it really undervalues how much the 616 world was just absolutely attacking the mutants while the rest of the supers did practically nothing
@@imaginaryking5276he broke the Phoenix apart and it was forced into the Phoenix Five. They didn’t ask for the Phoenix force, or want it for themselves.
Agreed, if they don’t go down this route with his character in the cinematic or at least the All New X Men time travel run to bring back old and new versions of characters to get new actors to take over their roles and change their futures it’ll be a miss.
Damn, what a trip through memory lane. I stopped reading comics during secret wars, and it's exactly because X-men was getting so good but then it went nowhere and I was like, f this shit. Also, by that time even hank admitted that Cyclops was right.
Damn you covered a lot of ground with this one, Rob! Gotta say this was a good time to be an X-Men fan, after many years of forgettable stories. And yes, please cover Decimation, District X, and Schism/Regenesis!
Love your channel for a long time. And for some reason this particular vídeo reminded me the OG ones. Almost could hear the old sountrack in the background...
As always you do an amazing job at explaining and retelling these stories. And as many would say this is Cyclops's "villain arc", I disagree with even calling him a villain. Someone else in the comments said it best, Cyclops is the perfect blend of Professor X and Magneto's philosophies. He was young and naive growing up under Charles, and grew to mature and understand Magneto. Even though Magneto tried to "talk some reason" into him, ultimately Cyclops reminded him that we are definitely in the times that Magneto was preaching back then on what he didn't want. And then ultimately when Magneto joins his crew, Cyclops never shied away from telling Magneto that their not doing things "his way", they're doing them better. Which in itself is a combination of both what Prof X and Magneto taught him. He's also younger than both of them and has lived in a world where both of them made an impact, and the govt has evolved. Sometimes helping mutants, but still often times oppressing them. And just like in the cartoon now where everyone easily says "Magneto was right", they too stated that "Cyclops was right". And he was. He definitely was unhinged and going off the rails, but circumstances pushed him there and he could no longer go about situations the same way Prof X would have advised. And again his distrust for Prof X had a great impact on him, because he now also distrusted those philosophies and ideals Prof X used to impose on him.
Xmen Schism convinced me that cyclops was a great leader, dude was trying to protect what was left of the mutants and people try to label him a villain. The mans a boyscout or started out that way because Xavier need his child soldiers to be obedient, but all the betrayals made him more protective and militant so he could effectively lead honestly(he is a deadbeat dad though)
@@SenseiSeagal420 I like how everyone conveniently leaves out that it was the original X-Men (Warren, Bobby, and Hank, y'know... his three oldest friends ), telling him to come see only the FOURTH oldest friend he had, how Madelyn had already abusive to him, hitting and berating Scott, and told him not come back. That, when he did come back to see everything gone and the house destroyed he broke down immediately. AND, most of all, that Madelyn was LITERALLY CREATED BY SINISTER for the -sole- purpose of bearing a child AND how she'd actually been psychically manipulating him the entire time. But y'know... brain washing's only wrong when it's not Cyclops.
@@SenseiSeagal420 He didn't abandon them. Madelyn LEFT because he went to go check on a recently resurrected jean. You youtubers really don't read the comics
Oh yes. Cyclops is a villain. He only - organized the remaining 198 after Decimation (something that the Scarlet B!tch was responsible for but is still seen as a hero) - helped fix Wanda's crime and brought mutantkind back from the brink of extinction. - refused to keep begging for tolerance after seeing Xavier's dream fail time and again. - took a very active role in protecting mutants and mutant rights from trigger happy cops and "heroes" - helped fix the Inhuman's mistake and made their mists non-lethal to mutants. Yeah. He's a "villain". He should have just stayed down like a good dog and kept begging humans to accept his kind while being kicked in the head to keep being a hero. 🙄🙄🙄
I forget which run it was on the AvX stores or the plenty of times they fought. But the words he spoke to Steve then (paraphrase) While the Sentinels hunted us, House of M & the other events, where were the Avengers, we fought beside you in your battles but left to ourselves to die" That line was the coldest lone every written to the Avengers to call them out since they had a all white team and someone called them out on that. So in a complete flip and see Steve take what is basically the X-Force mentality and form another Unity Squad that straight murked Orchid. It felt good to see, especially people like Tony who previously had a FWB relationship with Emma be a ally in the Fall of X & Kingpin using his street power to help as well is damn good to see. So seeing Marvel give this character development to Scott and the people he has went against is awesome
Sorry, but this is a bad take. There have been other "Cyclops is an ahole" runs, but these were not it. He was just being a decisive leader, making the best decisions he could given the circumstances. Was everything he did perfect? No, not by a long shot, but it was all motivated from a pretty clear concern for the future of his people. For example, Cyclops didn't say he would kill all his teammates to save Hope, he was saying that ALL of them (himself included) should be willing to lay down their lives to keep Hope safe, because her presence was clearly connected with re-creating mutantkind. In Utopia, he wasn't making child soldiers, he was teaching kids to fight for their home and to defend themselves from people who wanted to kill them. He wasn't trying to eradicate anyone with the Phoenix Force, he was trying to bring about the rebirth of his race. He also, as part of the Phoenix Five, spent tons of time and effort remaking the entire world (not just mutantkind) into an actual utopia, but after being attacked several times, the Phoenix Force had had enough and went to town on them all. AND at the end, he did indeed bring about the rebirth of his race. Cyclops was right. This overall run in the comics is what makes him the GOAT defender of mutantkind, in my mind.
I feel so sorry for Cyclops that his Powers never got a chance to evolve/change. His mutant powers is only primarily by firing Optic Blasts from his eyes, whereas his other brothers can do so much more than that. Despite being one of the original characters of the X-Men, his power still remains the same since his debut. All I can see in Cyclops is just a great leader making so many hard decisions with no growth & improvements towards himself.
It's good writing when both sides of the fandom see some right or justification in the horrible things some characters do. The best part is Cyclops getting a more textured treatment, over his long-time portrayal in the early days of the X-Men.
I agree that this era was some of the best stories for Cyclops, but I highly disagree with people thinking he is a villain. X-Force? Not all wars or genocides are formally declared. When the species was facing extinction and groups are out to eliminate them all, they need to be dealt with. Child Soldiers? He literally said that if anyone doesn't want to fight, they can leave. And we all know that Sentinels spare children, right? RIGHT?! Killing Xavier? Phoenix did it. Literally. He didn't seek it out and wasn't made to control it. He also didn't conscript any mutant he liberated, they all joined willingly. That's a really wild and inaccurate take. I also love the notion that Beast breaking the time stream with the O5 is somehow ok and "move out of concern" and not just Beast being INCREDIBLY cavalier with time. Other than that, great vid Rob!
Are you sure it was willingly? Slim was the main man back then you think people gonna be like "nah, i'm good" nope. It was basically a rock and hard place. Since mutants can only do one thing and that's suffer.
Being right doesn't mean you cant be a villain. All the best villains were motivated by something we all relate to. The ones that suck are the mustache trilling guys with the maniacal laugh. One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist. This video is looking at how Scott become like that. Like how Magneto become like he was. The difference between a comic hero and comic villain is how they do better morally. Not who is right or wrong. You can be completely right doing something immoral. Who is wrong in Gaza? People were killed in October. Does that mean Israel is the hero for hearting those people? even if killing them all would be in their best interest?
@@pfc_church the problem is that cyclops doesn't want to kill anyone during his "terrorist" days: in uncanny x-men by bendis. most of what cyclops preached was coexistence, wanting mutants to stand up to oppression and having governmental officials to stop hunting mutants down as second class citizen.
I’d love to hear more about Cyclops. Him and Wolverine have always been the most prominent X-men in my mind. Plus I’ve never been much into reading comics so this definitely the best way for me to consume them haha
I do love the split in teams. Logan and Jean Grey School (which was basically Harry Potter) and Cyclops and his "brotherhood of mutants". It really showed how the two characters had change so much that they were now polar opposites. Logan carrying on the professor's dream and Cyclops being a version of Magneto that even made Eric a little nervous.
It was a good story. It felt weird for along time thinking Logan became Professor and Scott is now Eric. So many times and alt universes this happens. I think writers from for the past 10 years now were fans of the 90s and early 2000s thought scott was always a dick and here we are.
What? Wolverine was opposed to the Professor as well, and even went so far as to rename the school to snub him. The Professor's dream was to bring understanding to humans, and Wolverine didn't do that, he just isolated the mutants (and not even all of them, just the kids) from humans. Arguably, that would make everything way worse, since it's opposed to the statement, "People fear what they don't understand, and they hate what they fear." And, _worse,_ it was more dangerous for the kids to stay in Wolverine's school than not.
@@ClockworkGearhead I think you missed the point if that is as far as you got. Wolverine adopted the professors fight. Scott was the natural successor didn't want anything to do with it rejecting what the professor stood for. It is a dynamic Marvel repeats with the team over and over. Wolverine starts out one way becoming a beloved hero while Scott starts out as a hero becoming less one as time goes on. Every reboot or alt world same thing. They each adopted the general position of professor and magneto originally had.
For my money, the years that the X-Men were in San Francisco were some of the best Cyclops moments. I would love to watch you cover their role in Secret Invasion.
It’s debatable if he was ever a “villain.” More like “he wasn’t on the same side as a lot of other heroes.” And as far as him taking out Prof X, remember that the storyline IMMEDIATELY PRECEDING THIS ONE was Dark Genesis, where Xavier was outed for getting an entire team of X-Men annihilated, then covering it up by mind-wiping everyone, and hiding the fact that Cyke had a brother on the team that was also mind wiped from him. Xavier had no moral high ground upon which to lecture Phoenix Cyclops.
Anakin Skywalker is the best analogy ive seen. I used nick fury as an analogy. He's not a captain America type because hes not bound to loyalty to a single country. Hes pretty unique but thats a great comparison anakin because of the heel turn
THANK YOU!!! I never understood the Cyclops was Right people. I remember reading these stories and having the same take. X-Men was the first book i picked up as a kid and they're the ones i still read consistently but I've read enough cross over stories and big events that it is in my soul to trust Cap before anyone else. Cyclops is the villain in AvX. He's a tragic villain and i think that's what makes the story compelling, but he's still the villain.
Idk mayne. I'm used to your coverage being a little reductive for consumption but I think Cyclops' character summary needs more nuance. But this was good overall! I'd like to see these old stories covered again
It was hilarious that in one of the runs everyone was shitting nonstop on Cyclops' horrible crime after he diedm making him out to be history's greatest monster...
And then it turned out his horrible crime was changing the terrigen mists so that they did not murder mutants anymore.
Yeah... I do like the Inhumans... but the terrigen mist was a fucked up thing.
More so when it was for all intents and purposes... a russian roulette, even those with the Inhuman potential at least half of them got out of it dead(the lucky ones) or horrifically deformed, even those that were "successful" had to pray that their power didn't demand extreme discipline of them.
By letting the mist be, Medusa and Black Bolt technically did a chemical attack on the world, and when the people who were most suffering for it did something... they got pissy and played victim.
Got compared to Hitler for being against poison gas
Pretty sure, that was because Ike Perlmutter was trying to kill the X-Men at the time, just because he didn't want comics advertising Fox's movies. At least that was the rumour circulating the net back then.
@@Verebazs I wouldn't call that a rumor. It was clear they didn't want any property they didn't have full control over being popular. Couldn't call Wanda and Pietro mutants, they were no longer Magneto's kids. Couldn't say mutant at all, and the inhumans were their replacement. Hell, even marvel vs Capcom 3 couldn't include the most popular fan-favorite characters, and they mainly had to be characters that had movies or story lines in the MCU at the time. The game even made Spider-man unplayable with every move being a dragon punch motion which is difficult, while Taskmaster had the same moves that were stronger and had very easy inputs. Its the little things that add up.
@@courvewait which characters are you referring to? You might be thinking of MVCi cause their was a big controversy of them not adding any of the X-men to the roster. Also, the reason it was so controversial was because the x-men are extremely important to the series. The first game was just an X-men fighting game and the first actual crossover was X-men vs street fighter.
None of these actions make him a "villain". This is Cyclops at his peak. I don't understand understand why people label this era Cyclops as a "villain". Just because Avengers fought him? What part of this version of Cyclops is not heroic? He saved the mutant species
Better description is definitely Anti Hero.
As a hardcore Cyclops fan (hence my profile pic), I find a lot of other hardcore Cyclops fans to be annoying. They act like Cyclops is some perfect paragon who can do no wrong, when in actually, Cyclops' failures and questionable actions are huge aspects of what makes his character interesting
Do no wrong? No.was he more right during AvX? Yes.
Oh definitely.
I loved him in New X men having his existential crisis about his stoic nature and coming to terms with the merging with Apocalypse.
The idea of him and Jean clutching onto each other in desperation in the old days and wondering what they now were? It’s so much more interesting than just “he was a boy, she was a girl”.
It’s like with Jean. I love the idea of her as the Sanctimonious bully that, with the Bendis era Teen Jean, tries to avoid her worst behaviours.
As a Vegeta maga fan, I understand what you mean 😂😂😂
Not a cyclops fan boy, but he has always been one of my favorite characters because of his fall from being the paragon you think of from "God Loves Man Kills" to the decimation of the avengers and xmen and then back to an antihero type
@@jaimemarquez2597i don’t think vegeta fans think he cant do any wrong
Cyclops has always been best as the combination of professor x’s and magneto’s philosophies
That's my favorite take on him, too.
So, a centrist. Like a agnostic drinking doctor pepper "we have no way of knowing, so we don't take a side. We don't drink coke OR sprite!"
@@geraldbouvy1222exactly. That’s why he is always at odds with Wolverine. That guy is drinking way too much Pabst Blue Ribbon
Agreed
@@geraldbouvy1222 Willfully missing OP's point to bring real world political reductionism into pop culture. Get that brainworm shit out of here.
That conversation between Cable and Cyclops where Cable acknowledges Scott as his father, and tells Scott that he should stop before he would be killed both physically and in the eyes of the public was amazing. It sticks with me. One of the few conversations they had, and the only one I can remember where Cable acknowledges Scott as his father. A beautiful analog for Magneto and his children.
Damn I've been missing out!
They had one after X-Cutioner's Song.
Cyclops is a great leader, great villain, but he’s even better at being a soldier! He’s no slouch, he will kill, but he also reasons.
Which us why fellow X Men must save him from himself 😔
Its been the other way around for quite a while now
@@DJVirgoNeun1
This is some of the craziest spin I’ve ever heard. He never wanted to “Eradicate” people who disagreed with the mutant cause with the Phoenix. He used the Phoenix to undo Scarlet Witch’s “No More Mutants” spell.
No he didn't. Scarlet Witch and Hope with some Iron Fist powers did.
@@siritalis4956 Yes, but from the beginning Cyclops wanted Hope to have the Phoenix because one way or another it was going to restore mutant kind. It was Iron man’s interference that caused Cyclops to have the Phoenix. Cyclops never intended to have it.
@@Aureilius2112But, once he did have it...
@@hummingbirdcityThe Phoenix took control like it usually does.
@@hummingbirdcity Once he did have it he ended genocides in Africa, gave free energy to the globe, and established water sources in desolate places. He didn’t go Dark Phoenix until like the 5th time the Avengers attacked him.
Cyclops didnt fall down.. he simply focused himself to the task as the commander he was raised to be. X Force was amazing. If someone proved this child was the only hope of your race what would you do?
Also i loved his dialog with Cap.
This era of Cyclops was FUCKIN WILD and I loved it!
It was always there, you just noticed now.
left of the part where every telepath tried to bang him lolz. Got weird when Psylocke tries to make it a 3way while Jean and Emma are duking it out. Then you remember that Mr. Sinister added that trait to make sure "Cable" was born and it never switched off. Poor Madylene!!!
Not sure i agree with some of your takes but love the video! He was only really defined as a “villain” in the framework of marvel comics we were meant to view him as such but it kinda backfired around this time and readers rallied around him
Related regarding Schism I always thought the event made little to no sense with Logan as the opposing side and it should have been Storm. The argument itself was so odd when you realize X-Men were trained since they were teens to begin with
Especially with the Decimation, Civil War and World War Hulk happening around that time.
Frankly, the moment I grew to dislike him was a mix of Namor destroying Wakanda and Scott knocking Emma out.
What can I say? Emma’s great.
Yes I would say during AvX (which I consider to be just poor character writing across the board) is where you could argue the most that he was acting villainous even then he was going off what Cable told him/had his hand forced by the Avengers.
Besides that I wouldn’t consider any actions pre or post villainous more just morally grey out of desperation…unrelated agreed Emma is great always 😂
@@christopherhart4058 Frankly, AvX and IvX were bad. They were little more than using a team that they didn’t have the film rights for to prop up the lesser team.
I will say, proud of Beast for continuing the Original 5 tradition of doing heinous things when opposing what they believe to be an extreme leader. I wasn’t a fan of the first run of X factor because of all of guys’ secret keeping, Scott being awful and Warren trying to get with Jean when Candy Southern, a Saint, was his girlfriend and running his company for him.
Yup completely agree with all of this. Marvel “vs” events are particular bad but I should go back and read the original X-Factor run now that you brought it up I’ve only ever read the Peter David runs.
I do want to add I’d like a video to examine Beast around this time you could almost argue his actions were almost worse at points
@christopherbennett5858
Remember, Cyclops didn't choose to become the Phoenix. None of the Phoenix 5 did. It was the Avengers who, in an attempt to stop Hope from getting the Phoenix, inflicted the Phoenix on the 5.
Oh and how did the Avengers defeat the Phoenix? By doing a 180 and giving it to Hope.
Which was what Cyclops wanted to do in the first place.
Didnt like Cyclops as a kid, but as I get older i appreciate him more. Hes my 3rd fave Xman
Ditto, ditto, and ditto
I didn’t like him as a kid too. I thought he was boring. I definitely appreciate him and like him now.
I thought he was corny lol. I also hated how he dealt with his feelings for Jean after Phoenix saga until i went through the ringer with a woman.
It's the opposite for me. Cyclops was my favorite while I heavily disliked Wolverine. The only Wolverine-related character I really liked was X-23. It took a couple of years before I appreciated Wolverine, though mainly Hugh Jackman's version.
I always found myself annoyed by how everyone treated Cyclops as this horrific monster. A lot of X-Men condemned Cyclops for X-Force during Second Coming, and for the longest time I wanted to jump into the panels and tell them all to grow up, their race was on the brink of extermination and hard choices had to be made. I also really didn't like how he was treated for killing Xavier. Look, it was wrong, he shouldn't have done it, but the writers have gone on record to say he was being influenced by the Phoenix at the time, and whenever that was brought up in the comics characters just dismissed that. Jean Grey killed billions of aliens when she was Dark Phoenix, but she was instantly forgiven by the others, and they even fought to protect her. I know it was retconned that that wasn't Jean after all, but the X-Men didn't know that at the time! The only difference between Cyclops and Jean in this scenario was that Cyclops killed someone they knew, while Jean killed a bunch of faceless aliens they hadn't met.
Cyclops be having too many secret family members
They write cyclops how you would think they would write stereotypical black man in a comic book 😂
Can confirm. I am Cyclops' other secret brother.
I've been saying this since I was 10 years old
@@TGKArcI am Electro and too im his brother, brother 😊
@@mikenedd1 WOW, This is something I never realized, you opened my eyes man...
Loved the video!💕 Just started my comic book collection and found Toon Haven. They offer a huge variety of digital comics for every genre, and lifetime updates too!😍
Na Scott was right. This man has saved the Mutant race from extention several times, but for some reason, everyone hates him. I'm riding with Cyclops.
“Extention” is crazy
@@sean999-l5m theres was only 200 mutants left after wandas spell
That’s a bold claim, Rob, in a universe with Victor von Doom, Magneto, Owen Reese, and Galactus in it.
Cyclops has always been my guy. My hatred for Wolverine is infinite lol. Cyclops is literally the guy who always did the right thing and got fucked over anyway.
Wrong. The writers for spiderman are the true villains
This is why I don't like Spiderman. He goes through too much shit
@@falconeshield don't hate on spiderman, hate on the writers!
Can anyone tell me why or what's so bad? I heard he was buddies with Norman obsourne that can't be right? Can it? Completely uninitiated on current Spidey stories
He was a revolutionary not a villain. Man said child soldiers but he was teaching them to defend themselves if they get attacked. Cyclops did what he thought was right to protect his people and he didnt sugar coat anything.
Cyclops was right!
Hells yeah 💯
In fairness he was basically reading Wolverine’s lines at that point. If my grasp on the timeline is right he’d already been friends with Magneto for a while, and Magneto had been asked by the X-men’s PR if he’d consider dropping the red outfit as it could be seen as revolutionary and he’d told them to get lost. The whole period was really a load of ‘revolution is necessary in the circumstance’ vs ‘yes but are these means appropriate’ stories
I mean, they're still child soldiers, Wolverine was in the right saying they should be moved away. First ones to die in a battle would be the weak, untrained children.
So basically Shane from TWD
On one hand, sure, but on the other hand, if you have child soldiers fighting, that's risking your entire future, cause if they die, who knows if you could replenish your numbers and you could go extinct. There's also the fact that, unless you do complete _GENOCIDE_ of the human race, those children will, not maybe, _will_ hate humans and we'll go right back to where we started regardless of whether the roles are swapped. A revolution without a an end is just endless violence.
Obligatory Cyclops was right. Captain America was the villain of AvX.
Cap was, but more so Wolverine who was egging the Avengers on and telling them half the information because of his bias against both The Phoenix and Cyclops.
Cap was the villain in AvX
😂 You might be right
Nah Capt was in the wrong in this one I agree.
@@ShadowProject01 I still like Cap though. I’ve always been more of an Avengers guy, so it’s not something I’m happy about.😅
What's ironic is that now it's Beast whose gone down this path of "By any means necessary"
Frankly, after the Threnody story in the 90’s, I kind of suspected Beast’s character would go downward morally.
@@christopherbennett5858Funnily enough bringing back an older version of Beast is how Marvel's resolving it.
The version of Beast who teamed up with Wonder Man has been brought back to take down Current Beast.
@@Timewarpiaman The Beast from New Defenders. When Candy Southern was the leader
Aka me wondering if the host of the Cerebro podcast has been giving story ideas lol.
Funniest part of the era was Beast bringing the OG x-men to the future to stop Cyclops "by any means necessary", only for them to switch to Cyclops' side after like 10 issues.
Also a bit annoyed that he referred to this action as being before AVX when it was after.
@@finnanbreathnach4729 Yeah it was after when Cyclops formed his own X-Men recruiting newly created mutants.
I found it funny how Cyclops was sent to prison and was in there for like a couple issues max.
This was the era of X-men I got into reading the comics with. Seeing Scott Summers in the position to have to make the hard decisions when the mutants backs were pushed against the wall like never before made for some fantastic storytelling and I was there for it. When he could do nothing but defend, he had to figure out how to go on the offensive.
I would love a video on Cyclops' top general Magik. She's so unappreciated, and her growth has been amazing since her debut
She's one of my favorites for sure
Cyclops is my favorite marvel character so good bad or bad guy the character is dope
The X Men finding out the Prof. had intentionally enslaved the Shiar AI; Danger (Room), made the team look at him a lot differently around that time as well. In "Astonishing".
Schism era cyclops was where i truly came to respect the character. Read bits and peices of the saga along with x men vs the avengers and knew about the all the events that happened during this time (house of x, no more mutants, civil war, krakoa/genosha, etc). I loved cyclop's transition from the ideal golden boy of the mutant race to being it's leader and eventual savior through preservation. Also liked the fact that he took on more of magneto's idealogy and slowly backed away from professor x's ideals (nothing wrong with them, but with the way charles was written during this time, it slowly caused a rift everything cyclops was taught....).
also it's not like he backed away form Charles's ideals full stop. he wants coexistence, but didn't want it on the backs of mutants looking like second class citizens. all cyclops wanted was mutants to live in peace without being hated, mutants to stand up to oppression/bullies and the governmental officials to back off on their treatment of mutants.
Thanks for doing this video Rob! You covered the X-Men pretty well there during my favorite stretch of Marvel. A little correction there; The Bendis titles, All-New and Uncanny, came after Avengers Vs. X-Men not before. Beast brought the O5 team back as a last ditch effort to get his old friend to admit all his wrongs up to and killing Xavier. I personally liked what they did with his character. I like when the big 2 do different and interesting things with their characters. We have decades of these characters being eagle scouts. It's good to shake it up once in a while. Take care and peace.
Cyclops was like the Captain America of the X-men. So seeing his values that he holds dear be twisted and altered by trauma was ingenious. His fall from grace made him more empathetic as a character.
The irony in the entire story is the people deriding him for his actions are the same people that usually inflicted said actions _upon_ him.
Cyclops Was Right X
Rob's refusal to acknowledge Black Bolt was my favourite part of this video 😂
I loved parts of that Bendis run. It had so much potential with the new characters we were introduced to and Cyclops continuing to build his team up. If I remember correctly, he even made peace with Havok and it looked like Havok would join him. But Axis or Secret War plans derailed everything and the run ultimately meant nothing in the grand scheme of the characters. Even Dazzler's dark/emo phase was forgotten, and I thought it was the most interesting thing the character had ever done.
So yeah.... maybe go back and look at the Uncanny run of Bendis in detail. I'd like to remember those days with a little trip down memory lane.
You a little out of order. Avengers v X-Men happened before cyclops started saving and recruiting new mutants. Otherwise wow ur bringing back so many good memories, I have all of these major story arcs. I loved this era of cyclops.
I was a marvel wiki reader as a kid so him be out of order in AvX was a little enraging. But he still delivered
Personally marvel comics was at his peak during civil war to secret wars
Beast bringing the pasr x-men into the present and Cyclops leading the mutant revolution was after Avengers vs X-Men, not before.
Also this video is very biased against Cyclops, because if Cable Cyclops knew about Hope's importance, it wasn't just a supposition, Bishop was a psychopath during that era, he endangered countless X-Men. Also Wolverine was the ultimate hypocrite, criticising Scott for putting children in danger but he himself was willing to kill Hope who was still a teenager. Last thing, during the Revolution era, Cyclops never forced anyone to fight with him, on the contrary.
Thank you for saving me the time to write all of this 😂 I think I wrote it on another video about Cyclops he posted
Exactly. Frankly, I wasn’t a fan of Wolverine for that.
At that point, I was team Dust:
Also yes odd that he says he forced people to fight with during the Revolution era when I can legit remember an issue of Uncanny where he let one of the new recruits go home after training.
Also when Beast brought the O5 to the present they eventually go with Cyclops and the rest of the X-Men not with Scott at the time agree Hank was in the wrong.
Not to be picky of the video but I legit just did a speed run of that era of X-Men
@@christopherhart4058 Honestly, fair. You did the research,
Frankly, I feel like, at that moment in time, after Academy X, I wasn’t really Team Cyclops or Team Wolverine.
I was Team Dust and Team Martha Johanson.
Because I just wanted them and the rest of the kids to get out of it okay.
Necrosha is probably my favourite event of that time. Because of Selene and Destiny.
@@christopherbennett5858 Necrosha ruled! Anything involving the younger mutants around that time was really solid. I actually prefer Utopia to the current era sort of a hot take.
When you talked about cyclops saying they could kill cable .. yeah cable is cyclops's son
With Maddie.
If she was able to hear that, she would’ve dragged him down to Hell.
There's a well explained context behind that.
The speculation that Cable goes crazy and boycott everyone to takes Hope for his purposes; or Bishop was mad and wants to kill Hope.
In the end, was the Bishop alternative. Scott lets Cable takes Hope to gives her protection and a childhood that he never could give to Nathan
@@joanaalmeida8903 Except he did give a childhood to Nathan. Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix.
Man, some of this is just blatant misrepresentation of what happens, both Cyclops' actions and the actions of others. Imo, at the end of the day he's the reason we're able to have the Krakoa era today. He is THE xman!
THE DIFFERENT SUITS OF CYCLOPS SHOWN IN THJS VIDEO WERE ALL COOL AF. i especially liked the cosmic looking one.
Cyclops was Right and he preserved the mutant race🥰❤️❤️☺️
I agree completely! And I am sure other parties would disagree, from THEIR point of view, which would be equally valid! See, THIS is the type of story that is PERFECT for the new MCU resuming in 2025! _"How far are you willing to go to avoid the extinction of your own race?"_
He was right and wrong.
Cyclops was right!
@@ChineduOpara Yes indeed ☺️🔥
He is a highly flawed character but when it came to the welfare of Mutants, he unquestionably stood on business .
Cyclops deserves "Big three" status in the next iteration of the MCU. He can fill Cap's role as the tactician.
I think the official "Big three" of the X men should be Cyclops, Storm and jean Grey and when Jean dies the new big three would be Cyclops, Storm and wolverine.
@@thatonkgau5221 I'd say it should be Cyclops and Storm as the leaders of the team and Jean mainly as the emotional/mental anchor then when she passes that aspect splits and it becomes almost a "big four" between the two as well as Rogue and Wolverine. The MCU Wolverine obviously shouldn't be the major focus he was with FOX at all, his storyline already has the potential of becoming redundant.
@@dawb86 Hell Yeah, that's kinda what I was going for. Storm, Cyclops and Jean are the original big three of the X Men. Cyclops and Storm are the leaders and jean is the emotional anchor, the mother figure and heart of the X men giving them hope. And When Jean dies Rouge steps up to become the new heart of the X men giving them hope. Wolverine is obviously the warrior of the group.
Big three could be Mr. Fantastic, Doctor Strange and Cyclops.
Cyclops was right.
Super biased take against Cyclops. For example, an entire class of mutant students were nearly slaughtered. They were trained to be soldiers for their survival. Mutants exist only because of Scott.
And this happened because, during the Decimation, the Academy X books lost over 40 kids because William Stryker and Nimrod had their buses blown up, children sniped, forcibly amputated and murdered. Meanwhile, the Avengers were all focused on their competitive tool measuring contest known as Civil war.
And the kids had to fight back. Made me feel sorry for Dust afterwards.
Well, no. He was both right and wrong. Training kids for assassinations is a red flag, and Wolvie was right to call it out
Calling Cyclops a villian is biased?? Lmao cyclops fans never cease to amaze me. Not a single word in your sentence is reasonable.
@@RaGiAn87 You can't read comics and think Cyclops is a villain. The entire dynamic of the Krakoa and post Krakoa age is based on dynamics set by Cyclops in Utopia.
Cmon man just live it you know ?
Like take it on the street
I know you get burned out doing this stuff sometimes Rob, but thank you. This was awesome.
Nope, Cyclops was right ❌️
Cyclop was the true hero in AVX
Cyclops' heel-turn in the last chapter felt more like an editorial decision than the natural flow of the story. Most of AvX shows the X-Men fighting for a better world for as many people as possible, while the Avengers were only interested in maintaining the status quo. The only way that could end where the Avengers don't look like villains was to have Scott & the team go "mad with power", which was frankly out of character for them. Yay for Deus Ex Phoneixia!
Truth, the xmen's logic made sense. They kept trying to say it didn't then threw their hands in the air couldn't. I have so many thoughts about that run but it boiled down to this, they wanted Scott to be the villian so they broke the story to make him one.
Mmhhh...nope
Some of my times of reading x men and being a fan of cyclops. Loved telling my friends about the evolution of cyclops. Great video!
Yes, New Xmen post AvX made Cyclops one of my favorite Marvel characters.
Man, a perfect summary. People like you should talk to Marvel to handle the scriptwriting for the movies. People with passion and who know how to summarize without losing the essence. Great video
Scott wasn't a villian he was just down for his people. As time went on he realized Magneto was right all along
At least you thought Magneto was hero right?
Yea mass murder is t right but ok?
This is textbook fascism bro
That's an oversimplification. Magneto might have had some principles that made sense but his methods to achieve them were flawed.
@@Minigrub id do the same if I had powers.
Rob PLEAAAAASSSEEE keep making X-men content. I’ve stuck with your channel since my literal childhood. And everytime you release something I watch it, but I don’t click on it nearly as fast as I do anything X-men
I would like for you to cover "Cable& Deadpool". Probably needs to be a mini series, but you have already covered all the bigger happenings it touches. The even older Deadpool stuff is pretty great too.
Deadpool #11 was a classic issue in particular
I'm not a comic book guy but I love this channel! The guy is so passionate about what he loves and he's really good at telling a condensed story even if the audience has little to no reference points.
Hope they do him well in the MCU.
LOL
We know that's impossible
Agreed 💯 agreed with your comment, they always try to downgrade him, but he is a BAD ASSSS
They won't do ANYONE well in the MSHEu
He's a straight white dude, I guarantee you they won't.
Thanks for the video, Robbery! It made me think and choose to communicate with the community. That felt good.
I remember you did Cable vs The Avengers, and you talked about it leading in to Messiah Complex and Messiah War. I’d love to cover that.
That all ties in. hope is shuttled to the "future" for safety while Avengers VS Xmen plays out. only the future is unsafe as fuck cause for some reason Bishop decides she's better off dead. And just as that is reaching a crazy do or die climax where Bishops nukes a 100 year period of the timeline (hence a back story for why Kang The Conquerer can't just travel to the past at his lesiure) , a mind controlled Deadpool pops up and leads they to the one thing more dangerous than Bishop, Tyler/Stryfe cables evil clone with the absolute full power set. Even better, the x-force team sent to rescue them only has close range attacks against a guy who is already their equal, but but has long range strikes, mind taking, and reality bending lolz.
Those villain summers comics sound AMAZING honestly. Id love to see you cover them. Id love to buy and read them
Cyclops’s crazy missions were some of the best X-force comics!
AvX was the first comic i ever read, and I found that Cyclops becoming the main antagonist by the end of it was really cool, I'm starting to get into X-Men more and I'm excited to see Scott's development as a character throughout these books.
Villain? Or just doing what needed to be done?
Omg that was all my teenage years reading comics resumed on a video! To be fair at the beginning People were complaining about the way that cyclops was being written but im glad they kept him that way, he becomes a more complex character and drops away the good boy persona that People usted to associate him to also, his black-red costume with the x visor was badass! Loved your video man!!
Hard disagree on this take, man made mistakes no doubt but saying he was a villain? comparing him to Vader? I think it really undervalues how much the 616 world was just absolutely attacking the mutants while the rest of the supers did practically nothing
As usual, thank you for this Rob. I love listening to these while working out 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Cyclops wasn’t the bad guy in that time. Iron man was
Ironman was TOO.
Lol no.
What did iron man do?
@@Fullmetalobiwan🤡
@@imaginaryking5276he broke the Phoenix apart and it was forced into the Phoenix Five. They didn’t ask for the Phoenix force, or want it for themselves.
Agreed, if they don’t go down this route with his character in the cinematic or at least the All New X Men time travel run to bring back old and new versions of characters to get new actors to take over their roles and change their futures it’ll be a miss.
That's some run on sentence. Lol
Damn, what a trip through memory lane. I stopped reading comics during secret wars, and it's exactly because X-men was getting so good but then it went nowhere and I was like, f this shit. Also, by that time even hank admitted that Cyclops was right.
Great video! I'd love if you made more videos about X-Men history. This was a good era.
Wow, am I the only one who didn't think nor look at Slim as a bad guy during this arc?
Not at all, based on the comments. cyclops was right
Damn you covered a lot of ground with this one, Rob! Gotta say this was a good time to be an X-Men fan, after many years of forgettable stories. And yes, please cover Decimation, District X, and Schism/Regenesis!
Love your channel for a long time. And for some reason this particular vídeo reminded me the OG ones. Almost could hear the old sountrack in the background...
Or the intro music
@@HungL0W that"s rhe one? What was the name...?
@@anthonyandrade5851 The Heavy - Short Change Hero
As always you do an amazing job at explaining and retelling these stories. And as many would say this is Cyclops's "villain arc", I disagree with even calling him a villain. Someone else in the comments said it best, Cyclops is the perfect blend of Professor X and Magneto's philosophies. He was young and naive growing up under Charles, and grew to mature and understand Magneto. Even though Magneto tried to "talk some reason" into him, ultimately Cyclops reminded him that we are definitely in the times that Magneto was preaching back then on what he didn't want. And then ultimately when Magneto joins his crew, Cyclops never shied away from telling Magneto that their not doing things "his way", they're doing them better. Which in itself is a combination of both what Prof X and Magneto taught him. He's also younger than both of them and has lived in a world where both of them made an impact, and the govt has evolved. Sometimes helping mutants, but still often times oppressing them. And just like in the cartoon now where everyone easily says "Magneto was right", they too stated that "Cyclops was right". And he was. He definitely was unhinged and going off the rails, but circumstances pushed him there and he could no longer go about situations the same way Prof X would have advised. And again his distrust for Prof X had a great impact on him, because he now also distrusted those philosophies and ideals Prof X used to impose on him.
Is the future success of the MCU in the hands of a Henry Cavill Cyclops storyline??
The answer is always YES for any new content! Cover it all!
Xmen Schism convinced me that cyclops was a great leader, dude was trying to protect what was left of the mutants and people try to label him a villain.
The mans a boyscout or started out that way because Xavier need his child soldiers to be obedient, but all the betrayals made him more protective and militant so he could effectively lead honestly(he is a deadbeat dad though)
He loved Cable, he went to the future with Jean to find a cure for then techno organic virus
@@justinguardner3129 I like how you conveniently left out that he abandoned Cable and his mother to be with the Xmen after they found Jean alive.
@@SenseiSeagal420 lol that did happen
@@SenseiSeagal420 I like how everyone conveniently leaves out that it was the original X-Men (Warren, Bobby, and Hank, y'know... his three oldest friends ), telling him to come see only the FOURTH oldest friend he had, how Madelyn had already abusive to him, hitting and berating Scott, and told him not come back. That, when he did come back to see everything gone and the house destroyed he broke down immediately. AND, most of all, that Madelyn was LITERALLY CREATED BY SINISTER for the -sole- purpose of bearing a child AND how she'd actually been psychically manipulating him the entire time. But y'know... brain washing's only wrong when it's not Cyclops.
@@SenseiSeagal420 He didn't abandon them. Madelyn LEFT because he went to go check on a recently resurrected jean. You youtubers really don't read the comics
Oh yes. Cyclops is a villain. He only
- organized the remaining 198 after Decimation (something that the Scarlet B!tch was responsible for but is still seen as a hero)
- helped fix Wanda's crime and brought mutantkind back from the brink of extinction.
- refused to keep begging for tolerance after seeing Xavier's dream fail time and again.
- took a very active role in protecting mutants and mutant rights from trigger happy cops and "heroes"
- helped fix the Inhuman's mistake and made their mists non-lethal to mutants.
Yeah. He's a "villain". He should have just stayed down like a good dog and kept begging humans to accept his kind while being kicked in the head to keep being a hero. 🙄🙄🙄
I forget which run it was on the AvX stores or the plenty of times they fought.
But the words he spoke to Steve then (paraphrase)
While the Sentinels hunted us, House of M & the other events, where were the Avengers, we fought beside you in your battles but left to ourselves to die"
That line was the coldest lone every written to the Avengers to call them out since they had a all white team and someone called them out on that.
So in a complete flip and see Steve take what is basically the X-Force mentality and form another Unity Squad that straight murked Orchid.
It felt good to see, especially people like Tony who previously had a FWB relationship with Emma be a ally in the Fall of X & Kingpin using his street power to help as well is damn good to see.
So seeing Marvel give this character development to Scott and the people he has went against is awesome
Yes cover all these stories in full, id watch them all
Indeed a hottake but a correct one. But he was not a villain but a revolutionary.
Oh absolutely. Especially with all the stuff going on in the 2000’s.
Those two things are not mutually exclusive. He was in fact a villain
Anti hero at best… and it really depends where you stand…
So was Magneto trying to murder all non mutants
@@Makaveli5136 he’s definitely a villain lmao
I'd love for you to cover those stories!
*Rob* Please Review *Zero Tolerance*
That was my favorite X-Men series and the Artwork 🤌🏿
Absolutely cover those stories!!!
Sorry, but this is a bad take. There have been other "Cyclops is an ahole" runs, but these were not it. He was just being a decisive leader, making the best decisions he could given the circumstances. Was everything he did perfect? No, not by a long shot, but it was all motivated from a pretty clear concern for the future of his people.
For example, Cyclops didn't say he would kill all his teammates to save Hope, he was saying that ALL of them (himself included) should be willing to lay down their lives to keep Hope safe, because her presence was clearly connected with re-creating mutantkind. In Utopia, he wasn't making child soldiers, he was teaching kids to fight for their home and to defend themselves from people who wanted to kill them. He wasn't trying to eradicate anyone with the Phoenix Force, he was trying to bring about the rebirth of his race. He also, as part of the Phoenix Five, spent tons of time and effort remaking the entire world (not just mutantkind) into an actual utopia, but after being attacked several times, the Phoenix Force had had enough and went to town on them all. AND at the end, he did indeed bring about the rebirth of his race.
Cyclops was right. This overall run in the comics is what makes him the GOAT defender of mutantkind, in my mind.
I feel so sorry for Cyclops that his Powers never got a chance to evolve/change. His mutant powers is only primarily by firing Optic Blasts from his eyes, whereas his other brothers can do so much more than that. Despite being one of the original characters of the X-Men, his power still remains the same since his debut. All I can see in Cyclops is just a great leader making so many hard decisions with no growth & improvements towards himself.
Cyclops is underrated. I still have a grudge against Bryan Singer for ruining his character and Superman.
It's good writing when both sides of the fandom see some right or justification in the horrible things some characters do. The best part is Cyclops getting a more textured treatment, over his long-time portrayal in the early days of the X-Men.
Always a firm believer of "Cyclops was right".
@ComicsExplained Speaking of Dark Reign, when are you going to cover that? I would really love it!
Always been a Cyke stan
I was a kid when this run was coming out, that suit will always be the most memorable Cyclops suit for me
I agree that this era was some of the best stories for Cyclops, but I highly disagree with people thinking he is a villain.
X-Force? Not all wars or genocides are formally declared. When the species was facing extinction and groups are out to eliminate them all, they need to be dealt with.
Child Soldiers? He literally said that if anyone doesn't want to fight, they can leave. And we all know that Sentinels spare children, right? RIGHT?!
Killing Xavier? Phoenix did it. Literally. He didn't seek it out and wasn't made to control it.
He also didn't conscript any mutant he liberated, they all joined willingly. That's a really wild and inaccurate take.
I also love the notion that Beast breaking the time stream with the O5 is somehow ok and "move out of concern" and not just Beast being INCREDIBLY cavalier with time.
Other than that, great vid Rob!
In a way, Hank's time travel stunt telegraphs *his* decent into villainy.
Are you sure it was willingly? Slim was the main man back then you think people gonna be like "nah, i'm good" nope. It was basically a rock and hard place. Since mutants can only do one thing and that's suffer.
Being right doesn't mean you cant be a villain. All the best villains were motivated by something we all relate to. The ones that suck are the mustache trilling guys with the maniacal laugh.
One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist. This video is looking at how Scott become like that. Like how Magneto become like he was. The difference between a comic hero and comic villain is how they do better morally. Not who is right or wrong. You can be completely right doing something immoral. Who is wrong in Gaza? People were killed in October. Does that mean Israel is the hero for hearting those people? even if killing them all would be in their best interest?
@@pfc_church the problem is that cyclops doesn't want to kill anyone during his "terrorist" days: in uncanny x-men by bendis. most of what cyclops preached was coexistence, wanting mutants to stand up to oppression and having governmental officials to stop hunting mutants down as second class citizen.
I’d love to hear more about Cyclops.
Him and Wolverine have always been the most prominent X-men in my mind. Plus I’ve never been much into reading comics so this definitely the best way for me to consume them haha
I do love the split in teams. Logan and Jean Grey School (which was basically Harry Potter) and Cyclops and his "brotherhood of mutants". It really showed how the two characters had change so much that they were now polar opposites. Logan carrying on the professor's dream and Cyclops being a version of Magneto that even made Eric a little nervous.
It was a good story. It felt weird for along time thinking Logan became Professor and Scott is now Eric. So many times and alt universes this happens. I think writers from for the past 10 years now were fans of the 90s and early 2000s thought scott was always a dick and here we are.
What? Wolverine was opposed to the Professor as well, and even went so far as to rename the school to snub him. The Professor's dream was to bring understanding to humans, and Wolverine didn't do that, he just isolated the mutants (and not even all of them, just the kids) from humans. Arguably, that would make everything way worse, since it's opposed to the statement, "People fear what they don't understand, and they hate what they fear."
And, _worse,_ it was more dangerous for the kids to stay in Wolverine's school than not.
Cyclops wasn't becoming Magneto. Magneto followed him, not the other way around
@@ClockworkGearhead I think you missed the point if that is as far as you got. Wolverine adopted the professors fight. Scott was the natural successor didn't want anything to do with it rejecting what the professor stood for. It is a dynamic Marvel repeats with the team over and over.
Wolverine starts out one way becoming a beloved hero while Scott starts out as a hero becoming less one as time goes on. Every reboot or alt world same thing. They each adopted the general position of professor and magneto originally had.
@@pfc_church wolverine wasn't fighting, you get that right? He ran and hid
For my money, the years that the X-Men were in San Francisco were some of the best Cyclops moments. I would love to watch you cover their role in Secret Invasion.
I never liked cyclops. Always thought he was a goodie two shoes but when he was being evil and anti hero style I super dug it.
And frankly, weak sauce.
It just sounds like you finally understood him in his anti-hero era.
@@Aureilius2112 possible. I was also older by the time. Kid me was not down with cyclops being the snooty boy scout
It’s debatable if he was ever a “villain.” More like “he wasn’t on the same side as a lot of other heroes.” And as far as him taking out Prof X, remember that the storyline IMMEDIATELY PRECEDING THIS ONE was Dark Genesis, where Xavier was outed for getting an entire team of X-Men annihilated, then covering it up by mind-wiping everyone, and hiding the fact that Cyke had a brother on the team that was also mind wiped from him. Xavier had no moral high ground upon which to lecture Phoenix Cyclops.
Anakin Skywalker is the best analogy ive seen. I used nick fury as an analogy. He's not a captain America type because hes not bound to loyalty to a single country. Hes pretty unique but thats a great comparison anakin because of the heel turn
Great cover! I love this song
Off topic but who agrees that Jason Isaacs should be Magneto?
Agreed 100 percent
Not a bad casting
Nice choice
I’m all for villain cyclops videos. Any cyclops videos really
I'm 17 minutes in and so far I'm not hearing villain in any of this. We'll see if the end makes him look bad.
... and no, it's all self-defense.
THANK YOU!!!
I never understood the Cyclops was Right people. I remember reading these stories and having the same take. X-Men was the first book i picked up as a kid and they're the ones i still read consistently but I've read enough cross over stories and big events that it is in my soul to trust Cap before anyone else. Cyclops is the villain in AvX. He's a tragic villain and i think that's what makes the story compelling, but he's still the villain.
More cyclops videos ❤❤❤❤
Nah!! More Storm!! ❤
@@koolrodStorm is cool, but Cyclops is the more interesting and popular character.
Idk mayne. I'm used to your coverage being a little reductive for consumption but I think Cyclops' character summary needs more nuance. But this was good overall! I'd like to see these old stories covered again