ULTIMATE IRON MAN - The Forgotten Comic Book Series
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- Опубликовано: 10 июн 2024
- In this video, Owen explains the history of Orson Scott Card and Andy Kubert's Ultimate Iron Man, the original ideas for this reinvention of Tony Stark and what caused this series to be retconned out of continuity.
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▶ Timestamps:
0:00 - Introduction
2:12 - An Ultimate Debut
4:35 - The Forgotten Origin
9:13 - Stark Contrast
11:51 - Conclusion
▶ Music Used:
/ bored
chillhop.bandcamp.com/track/s...
/ rose
/ angel-eyes-chillhop-es...
/ melancholy
/ sugiwa-memories
#IronMan #Marvel #ComicBooks 
Развлечения
▶ Quick addendum: I just wanted to make a short additional statement to highlight some of the controversies surrounding Orson Scott Card. Throughout his career, he's openly expressed a lot of homophobic and anti-LGBTQ+ views, views I don't condone and personally find abhorrent. While it's incredibly difficult to separate art from its artist, I believed there was an interesting story to tell with Ultimate Iron Man, and sought to do so whilst minimising Card's presence in the video. In order to talk about Ultimate Iron Man, I had to mention who he was, the fact he wrote both volumes and the fact there was significant backlash against him, but I didn't want to give him any more time of day.
Nevertheless, I wanted to leave links here and in the video description for anyone looking for more information:
www.wired.com/2013/10/enders-game
www.theguardian.com/film/2013/aug/16/ender-s-game-orson-scott-card-essay-obama-hitler
www.wired.com/2013/03/orson-scott-card-superman-comic
bleedingcool.com/comics/orson-scott-card-responds-on-gay-marriage-and-boycotts
Whatever man, as long as he's not assaulting someone I don't care. People are to sensitive
I think it’s perfectly fine to separate art and artist but I understand your approach. Great video
According to polling, in 1990, 92% of Americans were opposed to homosexuality. In 2000, the figure was still 57%. (To this day, a poll of British Muslims found that 90% of them believed homosexuality was "immoral" and 10% said they were "not sure".)
Can't 'cancel' everyone of that generation. Heck, 30 years from now, a future generation will probably look back on views 92% of us hold today, as being reprehensible. And they in turn will be considered bigots by the generation that follows them.
The fact is, there is no objective morality - new taboos emerge constantly and old ones fall by the wayside. I could lose my job today for saying things that five years ago 95% of my work colleagues would have agreed with (and probably 80% still do but are too scared to speak up).
@@AdmiralBonetoPick If they're homophobic, regardless of background, screw the lot of them. If they're open to change, I'm open to giving them the chance, but if not, I got no time for you.
@@christopherb501 this
retconning the ultimate Ironman origin series into being a in Universe animated series is actually a pretty cool, because it mean Tony Stark basically gave the producers free rein to tell their own version of Iron Man.
Iron man Armored adventures?
@@juliiju0484 it honestly wouldn't surprise me if that was actually the in Universe title.
Animated. By the look of it was live-action by their look.
@@juliiju0484 man I forgot that show existed.
@@juliiju0484 YOU MEN *ONE OF THE BEST SHOWS EVER MADE?*
And of course Tony's brain tumor was eventually revealed to be an Infinity Gem. But of course, we all saw that coming.
Comics are weird, aren't they?
@@OwenLikesComics those tend to be the best! Something that is in the decline now that they write and draw with a TV show, movie, or Twitter in mind. [Shudders]
@@OwenLikesComics It was star lord real father, ego who put the tumor inside her brain
@@annedrieck7316 "now I know that sounds bad"
@@OwenLikesComics for me the only reason why this ultimate iron man origin didn't work is because they made it too different enough from the main continuety and it didn't work that well so marvel decided to revamp his origin for real much later that is kinda better than the one they did years ago.
I get the Ultimate universe was about new ideas and revamping characters…but there’s a difference between revamping a character with shades of what you knew, and a whole completely different character with the same name
I mean yes, that’s very true, but we buy into alternate reality tales all the time where we know what we’re seeing is a different iteration of a character we know. There were what if comics that did the same. There’s no reason why you from a different universe should be exactly/relatively the same as you in this universe
Ultimate Spider-Man was only a kid and a lot more inexperienced compared to the 616 version.
@@famousthaneus9810 but at the same time as well, you should be consistent with your writing, this Tony already had a partial background, all he should have done is explore it, not uproot everything and replant it with different roots from a different plant glued on like that doesn't hinder the plant.
Wasn't Reed Richards a villain with completely different powers? Or was that another universe Reed?
@@hamshankscps1049same powers but becomes a villain when Susan storm rejects him.
You know I can’t entirely even say that Ultimate Iron Man was bad but it was definitely weird as hell, I’m talking weird even by comic book standards
may I remind you peter parker made out with an insect girl which transformed him into a giant spider that gave birth to himself all so they could give him organic webs?
@@projekttaku1 I think I might’ve mentally blocked out that particular comic storyline (or just not read it) cause I don’t remember that one
@@DarkKnightofAnime tbh that would make alot of sense but if you want proof I recommend watching a video called "spider man got organic webs from a kiss"
I always thought organic webs made more sense than a teenager creating something that would CHANGE THE WORLD, and using it to chase down robbers instead. Think of all the AMAZING applications of web fluid… They never bring this up in ANY iteration of Spider-Man. SUPERIOR Spider-Man may have mentioned it, but I’m not sure.
Besides, even with ORGANIC webbing, Peter can still have limitations on it. He could only produce so much of it at any given time, after all.
Strangely this comic seems to be the main inspiration for the amazing Iron Man Armored Adventures cartoon. Between a teenage Tony Stark and the crux of the show being searching for a missing Howard there's some clear parallels. Although I think Armored Adventures did a better job adapting more mainstream elements of the character.
The theme song helped too
And also kept some of iron mans personality traits
Good show.
Good show.
@@matthewplays7232 can't think of a Marvel song that was more hype than that theme.
I liked the dynamic of young Tony and Obadiah.
This doesn't even sound all that bad as a superhero comic on its own, it just doesn't fit Iron Man whatsoever, let alone what the Ultimate universe already had set up.
Actually with the more grounded and the whole Marvel universe's traits in play from the start it fits Earth-1616's Iron Man well.
Tbf the ultimate universe in general you could say that to
The issue is that they tried too hard to be different. The whole point of the Ultimate universe was to streamline some of the continuity without getting rid of 616, and modernize some of these characters. But sometimes as apposed to being modern reincarnations of these characters they ended up being completely different instead.
Yet one of the first characters we got from the Ultimates was pedo Wolverine so they screwed up right out the gate
I love the look of ultimate iron man it looks like a combination of elements from Iron Man, master chief and doom slayer
Looks more realistic ngl
I looks like a robot to me
I always thought he looked a bit like a bionicle.
Even the nose armor from the 616 is a step up from the 1610’s overdesigned mess. Not too long after they even scrap it for something more akin to the 616’s.
I like how it look less human and more like an alien armor, it's awesome, my favorite Iron Man armor ever
I liked the Ultimate version of Iron Man immensely, he was a very fun and engaging character. But the Ultimate Iron Man series was way too out there and imo not great. But Ultimate Armor Wars is a cool Ultimate Iron man story that is much better even with the kinda abrupt ending, I would recommend that to people who want more of the character.
Also I'd like to see the Ultimate universe to return, Miles Morales would benefit from being reintergrated there to have space to grow.
man, I only got the first issue and 2nd one way later, but I read it too many times to count, sure it was weird as hell but I love weird as hell comics lol
I miss the ultimate universe. They were actually allowed characters to change and grow, something that 616 characters only get as a temporary change
The Ender’s Game writer writing for Iron Man? What could go wrong??
So, so much
My thoughts exactly
Yeah. Orson Scoty Cards opinion on marriage equality is the same as Barack Obama's position in 2008, and nowadays Marvel hires people with zero experience selling stories of any kind, so it makes sense that you guys foresaw difficulties.
Enjoy your hideous She Hulk.
You seems triggered rightoid
@@dragonsmith9012 "dragon smith"
Looking back at Iron man armored adventures i kinda felt they used some elements of Ultimate iron man with Stark being a Teenage and having Roadie and Peppa as teens reminds me a lot of Vr troopers with three teens dealing with a evil Business man
I'm a big fan of iron man armored adventure yeah I love that iron man show it was such a unique take on Iron Man that show has my favourite version of the mandarin, ghost and living laser also they also took inspiration from the Teen Tony Iron Man character from the Heroes Reborn comics
@@isinganddootherthings4616 Yes, best mandarim.
Although the story (including the origin concept) was weird, I love the Ultimate Iron Man armor, it looks weird (its the weirdest Iron Man Armor i've ever seen), but I love how they reimagined Tony's super armor.
The best part about this series was the introduction of the Ultimate armour, my favourite Iron Man suit
It didn’t do that. You have Mark Millar and Brian Hitch to thank for that. This came way later.
No please don't make me remember
BLUE BABY STARK
Iron Man 3 was onto something with their use of Eiffel 65's I'm Blue.
@@OwenLikesComics did they really use that song??? When? I really wanna see that with this story in mind😂
Very interesting! It's been great to see Owen covering so much Ultimate universe stuff lately, it's such a fascinating corner of Marvel comics.
It was definitely *unique*. It's debatable whether or not it was good. Another great video Owen.
Back when I was a kid, I had an issue of Ultimate Iron Man and was always confused on why he was a bald, blue child, but actually hearing a summary of the whole story, it makes it sound like a really interesting comic! Even if it fell a little flat in terms of giving meaning to Tony Stark and his choice to become Iron Man, it's still really cool to hear about. Having a well known author write the comic is also something that's quite unique; I can't think of many other times when comics have gotten more well-known authors aside from some of the early parts of American Vampire and the very odd process that went into Heroes for Hope (admittedly, I'm sure there are a lot more, I just don't know any of them).
Wonderful job on this as always Owen! I never gave this series much attention when it came out, so it was great learning about it here.
Now knowing what this comic book run was about, I don't blame Marvel from retconning out this from the Ultimate Universe. The story, the origin, and the character is so different and doesn't even match up with the Iron Man from the Ultimates.
Thanks for making a video about Ultimate Iron Man! Ultimate is my favorite Iron Man armor and it was great to learn about the back story behind this version of Tony.
...I personally really enjoyed both series. I thought it was a unique way to bring Tony into the Ultimate Universe.
What i love about these videos is that you are reminding me what comics I have locked away in my wooden chest and have not read in over 10 years. Let's just say, i have a few hundred comics stored away.
As a big X-men fan who hasn't read any of Ultimate X-men (Mainly because the way it characterises Nightcrawler always put me off) It would be really interesting to see your take on the series as I've heard a lot of conflicting opinions and probably know the least about it of all the ultimate runs. Also as a big fan of blue superheroes, Iron Man should not be blue.
May I ask, how did they characterize Nightcrawler? (I’m not trying to sound like a smart ass, I’m just curious)
@@ilg9677 he’s a stalker that’s obsessed with Kitty or jean I can’t remember.
@@ilg9677 he's a raging homophobe that ditched his best friend when colossus came out.
616 kurt would whoop the blue muffin outta him.
@@pathevermore3683 I like that storyline. I grew up with religious friends as a bi dude so seeing Piotr go through that and ultimately Kurt apologizing was very familiar to me
@@mero7731 I never made it that far. That bit kind of made me drop out of the ultimate X-Men books
I remember getting a copy of this around spring time 2015, I remember finding it hard to get into and not being able to quite put my finger on why. But now many years later I feel like your video touched on many of the issues I had.
Great video as always Owen. Really enjoying your coverage of the Ultimate universe.
Armored Adventures took inspiration from this comic 100%.
When I heard about "Ultimate Iron Man", the website gave the fans advice to not treat this series as canon to Ultimate Universe years before they've retconned it. Same went to some of Ultimate Team-Up stories.
I like this series, but only because I've never seen it as a part of Ultimate Universe
Wasn’t this book and Bill Jemis leaving Marvel literally the reason Marvel wanted to kill the Universe? Like one book fucks up and it’s all “nope pure trash universe, erase it”. Is that really what happened?
He made a video on the end of the ultimate universe
Nah the ultimate universe ended because it's goal was no longer feasible, creating a starting point for new readers a great sentiment but doesn't work if they keep making more issues. Also it stopped being special, a bunch of it's best ideas and characters got folded into the main continuity
@@kingpin1331 that and the MCU coming into play not too long after. The movies forced the main continuity to conform a bit for the movie viewers. And if the MCU was another version of the Ultimate universe, you can see what happened there
If you're like me and love the Ultimate Universe (pre Ultimatum) and want more Iron Man content outside of the amazing first 2 volumes of "The Ultimates", I highly recommend "Ultimate Armor Wars", it's a very good mini series!
Great video on the history of Ultimate IM! It seems like such a bizarre and almost unrecognizable take on the character that is so far out there that even Marvel has removed it from continuity. ….That is so bizarre to even type out, that’s wild!
I think there is a very fine line you have to walk when reinventing characters that already have such a storied history. (Even Ultimate Spider-Man didn’t stray too far from the original origin besides bringing it into the modern day…) I think the ones that move too far away from what made the character known are gonna have a harder time, and Ultimate IM seemed to have the hardest time of all.
I’m such a huge Iron Man fan; even though I’m still quite new to comics the character intrigues me so much that he’s grabbed a hold of me and hasn’t let go. I’ve read all of his major series and mini series (even Heroes Reborn, dammit!!) and several events of which he is a major part of (except the Crossing…never, NEVER touching that one; don’t know why anyone ever thought that was a good idea… 😫😭). I’m only just really digging into the Ultimate universe, but Ultimate IM is a series where its reputation precedes it; I had prior knowledge of it going in and told myself I’d avoid it like the plague; some part of me still wants to go back and judge it for myself, but, it’s such a bizarre and farfetched take on the character for me to really accept it… 😔
Love your videos, sir! I appreciate all of the hard work and research you put into each video which makes them fun to watch and helps me to learn more about this medium that I’m still very new to. Keep up the great work! 👍🏽
Great video!
This really is a strange origin for the character.
Please make more videos about Iron Man!
This is actually my favorite form of Iron Man but of cause i love Iron Man no matter what and i love alot of the other characters so yeah
Thanks for this video.
I’ve waited 5 days for this I’m so excited to watch
Well now I know where that hideous armor from the avengers game came from lmao
Love this channel.!!!!
Great video on covering ultimate iron man origin man 😀
I never read the comic, but while listening the video i hade a Deja Vu of Iron Man Armored Adventures ,and is a bit funny the many times marvel maded Tony a Teen
Can’t believe you didn’t talk about the part where Tony’s legs get burnt off in an incinerator
Been missing you mate!
Great video I actually didn’t about this one
Will you ever do videos on Marvel Noir?
I found Card's take to be fascinating. IMO it elevated the Ultimate line to a new level.
I remember how pushed and advertised Ultimate Iron Man was, at one point after the 90s show Modular armor, the ultimate armor was my favorite Iron Man design. But despite all that I have 0 recollection of this story line and events.
i read ultimate iron man as a fairly young person, and a big orson scott card fanboy. now, as an adult, i can look back on it and recognize the flaws in the material, but there’s always that nostalgia and my initial awe at the new concepts introduced.
Even though it's non-canon now, I still like to imagine it is because the idea is so funny to me.
lol as a kid, the orson scott card was the first iron man comic i ever read. i was way too young to understand any of it hahaha. i bought it in an airport bookstore
Liked this dynamic
I can see why this series was divisive, but it's still pretty interesting, and the potential is there. I wouldn't mind seeing elements of this origin implemented in a new book or adaptation in the future
The story reminds me of Iron Man armored adventures in how it portrayed Tony
Despite that confusing story, I still think that his Armor looks really good. I could definitely say its my favorite
Imo his helmets just wrong
the ultimate suit is awesome though
I've heard of Ultimate Iron man from a review that Linkara made a few years ago. I know that this series is weird, but this series is really interesting. Also, I heard about the series retcon in Ultimates vs Ultimate Avengers #2, where the Ultimate Iron Man cartoon was shown.
Omar, someday can you look at the Ultimate Avengers trilogy and Ultimate X series
I want linkara to cover his old shitty comic.
This sounds awesome asf
Personaly, i love it, Howard is much as the Tony on 616... After extremis i loved reading the two versions
I've always imagined an alternative ultimate universe where that story was canon
I do love the armor design
The googly eyes from the suit still haunts me in my nightmares
I have the 5 original issues of Ultimate Iron Man. It’s definitely a weird story but it’s really interesting!
So this book was so off the rails it had to be relegated to an alternate universe of an alternate universe. This is why mainstream writers typically don’t write comics: it’s good to have some reinvention, but outsiders don’t care about continuity or the main tenets of an iconic character.
I hope you won't stop making videos about ultimate comics universe
I fricken loved the stories,remembered buying UI novels back in 08
They killed off rdj,they're diving into the multiverse
Give us young tony with his brain tumor and have daddy howard alive as his mentor
Can you do some digging into why the WildCATS cartoon was never sindicated?
that suit is gorgeous
I kind of liked the blue Tony thing, and the very different design for the armor.
The fact that I was also conflicted with how Iron Man was introduced in the Ultimate universe in Team-Up and Ultimates compared to this just solidifies how bizarre this approach was. By the end of issue 2 of vol 1 when toddler Tony is strapped into a chair with the top of his head being washed off of blue gunk and getting mind sucked or whatever just had me befuddled to my core. Also was this version of Obadiah Stane not the most insufferable turd we've ever read in comics?!
When making an alternate version of a beloved character the author has to walk a very fine line. If you play it too safe, people won't see the point in having your character in the 1st place. Whereas if you change too many of the characters touchstones, you might as well just invent an original character and not piss The fickle comic fan base off... 👍
Honestly I didn't have a huge problem with most of Ultimate Iron Man outside of the of the brain tissue permeating his entire body and the Wolverine healing factor...
1610 armor making even the nose armor look sharper by comparison
Let's get a video about Arthur, Merlin, Shining Knight, Morgan le Fay, etc!!!
Sounds like an editorial misstep. It's understandable that you'd want to grant a well known author like Card a degree of carte blanche, but the story still needed to follow the existing story. I haven't read this series, and it sounds like an interesting story in its own right, but it failed to meet the brief of being the origin story for Ultimate Iron-Man.
I knew i didn't imagine this comic, it was so weird
Reminds me a lot of Iron Man armored adventures.
They can't all be winners.
For me having the yellow face but having the main color scheme be grey and red makes the armor look over designed. I think using the grey and red color scheme would have been a good way to go for future armors.
It was definitely polarizing, but I think the mcu did have the best approach because iron man should just be a regular (physically) human being who’s outstanding traits are his intelligence and cleverness.
Before the series the most abnormal thing was having a brain tumor, which is normal but also acted as motivation, but his mother being infected with some type of virus that was passed down to him, and even the extremis addition in 616 didn’t sit well with me.
I can see where iron man armored adventures came from
The ultimate universe is still my favorite
What went wrong is the Ultimate Universe itself. Change my mind
Ultimate armor wars is a interesting story
What is the green goo in ultimate iron man when the armor is off him?
Can we get clarification as to why you showed a different ultimate suit in the thumbnail?
I want an animated series about the Ultimates comics
I didn't buy Ultmate Ironman back in tha day but the artwork looks GOOD!!!! May have to pickup some back issues tho.
I wonder how people will react if this version of Iron Man inspired the MCU version
They very clearly did take some inspiration. That’s why Obadiah Stane is the villain of the first movie, and the Iron Man armor seen in Spider-Man: Homecoming heavily resembles the default Ultimate Iron Man one.
@@Gemnist98 Obadiah Stane was around since the early 80s, created by Dennis O'Neil. This miniseries was just a (bad) reinterpretation of O'Neil's brilliant villain, which neither this, the movie, or the cartoon got right.
But the MCU Ironman is alot better than the comics in general.
@@spideyguy3315 lol no. I'll take CB IM over MCU IM any second. He has better stories, better villains (his nemesis isn't a guy named Trevor) and went through awful a lot of trauma.
@@antona.8659 Yeah but Tony Starks personality in the Ultimate Comic's is terrible, while in the films u can relate to him and actually enjoy his character ( thanks to RDJ) let's face it? Ironman wasn't even popular until the 2000s
I love this comic. I dont think is good. But is wild
I really love the reinvention tbh, that armor is insane.
I think that the Ultimates Tony Stark would have been better served if you had taken the Obidiah Stane and RDJ characters from the movie and swapped personalities. Obidiah betrays Tony by trying to back out of a black market weapon deal and gets hurt, Tony's black ops team rescues him and installs the same Arc reactor to save Obidiah but rigs it to explode if Obidiah tries any funny business again. Tony develops the iron man tech to sell to the highest bidder, Obidiah tries to build one to stop Tony, Tony blows him up and decides to wear the suit as a PR stunt to smooth over the fallout for shareholders. His time with the Ultimates is him fighting in war zones where he starts wars and sells weapons to both sides while faking the hero.
How about an ultimate Cable video?
Nice
Thanks
@@OwenLikesComics nice
I really like the ultimate iron man suit
Scott Card is a brilliant sci-fi writer. Anyone familiar with Ender knows this. It's a shame that they brought his, in my opinion, brilliant iron man run to an end
Do you think it would have worked if this was the original Ultimate Iron Man that was introduced in the Ultimates? or if simply, the series and origin remained, but he was another character not named Tony Stark or Iron Man?
Ironically, I think Ironman Armored Adventures did this story as it’s origin lol
They tried way to hard to reinvent the battle armor with that origin story. I don't really think you need to update Tony's story that much. I did like what the did for Ultimate Thor though.
i love the ultimate iron amn armor
I have this comic book :)
Wasn't Ultimate Iron Man's suit adapted into the Mark 47 suit in the MCU?
I did really like Spider-Man and Ironman's friendship in the ultimate universe.
They should have just given Orson his own elseworlds story rather than trying to merge his take in with Ultimate continuity