This video has been the best explaining how to select the right combination. All of the manufacturers' videos are junk. None of them explain the complete procedure and you cannot find any useful information on their website as well. This was very informative. Thanks a bunch.
Good video. I think a lot of people that try 1k rattle can epoxy, don't clean well then do a dust coat, before they pile it on. Rattle cans are tricky, you got to really shake them up good. It also helps to put them in warm water to warm up the paint a little IMO. If your can has been hitting in doors and the paint is say 72 degrees, its not going to flow as well as a can that is say 85deg.
Someone ELSE knows how to use aerosols....😏 And ESPECIALLY, with "today's aerosol paints", as MOST of em are way more thinned down compared to days of old, when the aerosol paints were way thicker, with actual PAINT!..... Course nowadays? We pay ALOT more and are gettin ALOT LESS "product". Happy Restoring!
you are very welcome, if you have any further questions feel free to drop a comment and i will do my best to get back to you on a timely manner. Best of luck on your 63!
I lay paint down overtop off self etching primer. When I did my 98 I D/A sanded it all down did all the bodywork laid down three coats of Pro Forum self etching primer blocked the primer each coat then went directly to paint this is how I do all my projects and I've yet to have a problem did my 98 years ago still looks great.
The general self etching primer is only designed to be applied to bare metal and top coated with a urethane or high build primer. Pro form 1k self etching primer is designed to be top coated after it is sanded as indicated on the Technical data sheets for THAT product. So in your case it is safe for you to do that. But generally most self etching primers are not formulated to work that way. I appreciate your comment Taylor.
Where ever you got your information from you can thank them for it. They were right and correct about everything you’ve mentioned here. Which makes this an awesome video for people to learn from. I’m so glad that this information is spot on and can be taken to heart by those needing to know the right way to do things. So many people prime panels and cars and then let them set. Regular surface Primer is porous!!! It’s not going to keep the weather off and you are asking for trouble. Meaning oxidizing. Question. Why is the paint can lettering appear like it’s a mirror reflection? We’re you looking into a mirror while you shoot this video? Weird.
This guy knows what he is talking about always use epoxy primer on bare metal and sealing before a paint job always nib sand after sealing for a cleaner job or there is a direct to metal black for chassis and that works very well hard knocks for 30 years
a few questions (1.) if using black epoxy primer if I just clearcoat it then its UV stable right?? (2.) I want to put some metal flake in the paint job should I lay down some 2 coats epoxy with no flake then just 1 top coat of epoxy with flake in and then 3 coats clearcoat over the epoxy , or do my 3 coats of epoxy then a coat of clear with metal flake an then 2 coats of clearcoat over that?? And it is just for my front and rear differentials, driveshafts, and springs and I have it in stock and need to save some money an hoping to not have to buy more paint.. thank for sharing
2k urethane is great but not for bare metal applications. Over time I've noticed that it doesn't do well without having either epoxy or self etch under.
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations ok would it be OK to use a single primer edge? I can use for bare metal and then use a 2K urethane primer over that. Would that work?
@@vincentnarvaez6520 if the 1k primer is designed for bare metal application then yes it would be good to apply it under your urethane but 2k products always give better and longer lasting results.
I’m currently stripping my hood to bare metal, I planned to just clean it, and then put barely metal primer on it and then use some Krylon black and then 2K clear, is there anything I should change about that order? And is there any additional steps or time between those steps you’d suggest? Thanks in advance
By bare metal primer, which primer do you mean exactly? They sell some self etching primers like the one shown on the video in aerosol cans. You can apply that self etch if you dont want to do the epoxy for cost reasons, sand the self etching primer after a few hours. Then apply your krylon, 5-10 minutes between coats, then after about 15 minutes start applying clear. 15 minutes between coats
If you didn't go down to bare metal i would just use a primer surfacer. If you did go down to bare metal i would spray some epoxy primer and then some primer surfacer
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations I went down to bare and put some Bondo it's all strate now . Do I use epoxy primer from a can or can I use it in a gun? Then I'll shoot primer surfacer?
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations okay do I use a polyester primer surfacer or a urethane primer surfacer and once I do that can I shoot my baseco over that or am I missing a step?
@@phillipgonzalez5407 you can spray an epoxy primer first on your bare metal work. Then after that you can spray either a polyester or urethane. Whichever you decide. The epoxy primer is the one that will seal it, the urethane or poly will help you get your body work straight and smooth.
Epoxy primer is good, but it has nothing in it to prevent rust, it's just primer. Self-Etching Primer has Zinc in it, which is a sacrificial metal, so before corrosion will go after the metal below it will go after the zinc in the Self Etching Primer instead. Basically when you are using Self-Etching Primer you are ZINC COATING your metal... and that zinc coating is "ETCHING" into the metal below it, creating no space for water molecules to get in. Epoxy primer is very tough, and you can spray it over existing paint and body work, but it provides no actual corrosion protection in and over itself other than it is a coating.
Correct on the self etching primers but as for the others, E coating and epoxy primer provide corrosion resistance as per the technical data sheets as well as DTM primers which carry the etching process within it. All 4 of those products are designed to give corrosion resistance which is why they are used after sand blasting or media blasting vehicles.
As an ASE master tech since 1978, I am not a painter but have done 6 or 7 of our own (3 boys) but this was clear information about the way to make you project last. Rock chips to bare metal can spiderweb rust under the paint 6” all directions and I was shocked to see that. Epoxy to me “Is” the place to start on cleaned, prepped bare metal. Some have a 24 he window while others have 7 days. The ASTM “Salt Spray” test in hours tell you everything. Epoxy is sticking to everything with chemical cross-linking, solvents evaporating with almost a plastic wrap type protection. At 6’ 3” and big hands, spend the $6 for a rattle can spray handle. It makes it so easy to control, overlap and speed because your thumb is not changing best practices for applying a finish, even if it’s under the vehicle. With practice, 10% quaility urethane reducer added to an epoxy product makes a smooth sealer. I prefer the word primer not even be on the can but it is. As always, follow manufacturers product sheets and measure properly using good overlap and your base will stick to epoxy, epoxy sticks to your paint ready project. Now a rock chip may not flake off as easy. Son, I subscribed and liked what I heard. You will do well and some side-by-side destruction test panels. That will get attention. I too don’t care for DTM coatings because I have seen the feathered edges of primer and filler lift & curl as the acid eats into it. That kills your day! Thanks for the information!
Here's PPGs definition of "properly prepared" What Does "Properly Prepared Bare Metal" Mean? In many of our product data sheets, you may notice this or a similar statement under the Compatible Surfaces or Substrates section: “May be applied over properly prepared and treated bare metal”. But what does this mean? This means that your bare metal substrate must be properly sanded and treated with an appropriate direct-to-metal product such as an SX metal treatment, etch primer, or epoxy primer prior to applying anything else. These coatings insure adhesion for subsequent layers over the bare metal as well as provide additional corrosion protection. This step is especially important when using urethane primers or sealers. Their chemistry typically does not provide adhesion to bare metal - they must only be used over treated bare metal to insure optimum adhesion. So if you happen to sand through to metal, apply a bit of etch primer to insure it sticks! Soooooo--- If you sandblast or aggressively sand steel panels you remove the phosphate coating, which is the first step to protect steel from rusting. There are 2 basic ways to replace the phosphate coating: metal prep/acid wash--and--self etching primer. Epoxy primers do not convert or stop rust chemically, and most of the popular epoxy primers have little film build, long cure times and can absorb moisture and solvent--PLUS--most epoxy primer tech sheets recommend treating the metal with metal prep/acid wash for the best corrosion protection. Over the last 50 years, lead, zinc and chromate have been removed by law from paints. These are heavy molecules added to paints to protect from Ultra Violet, chemicals and moisture. The acid in metal prep (phosphoric acid) can affect the hardner part of epoxy primers causing them to air dry but not cure partially or completely. This is why most epoxy primer tech sheets recommend completely neutralizing the acid/metal prep before applying epoxy primer. Epoxy primers have been "sales promoted" pretty heavily in the last 50 years. I remember PPG/Ditzler promoting their DP40 primers with "Just DP it and Forget it", but that was back when DP epoxy primer actually had lead in it and they kept on promoting it because they knew regulations were already removing lead from paint products. Now they are selling DPLF (lead free) epoxy primer. Back then, if I needed to use epoxy (on restorations) I used DPU 35 epoxy (from their aircraft and industrial line) which had 3 times the film build and cured at least 3 times faster-and contained lead. We used metal prep on rusty steel first, and then the DPU35-per PPG tech sheets. Today, I see PPG has some really nice high build epoxy primers (again from their industrial products) that are becoming popular for high end restorations--VP2050 and CRE-X21--of course lead and chromate free. These are quite expensive and still are recommended over properly treated steel (metal conditioner). For the "informed" hobbyist, I recommend the following on sandblasted steel: 1)Sandblast- carefully to avoid warping. 2)DA sand the sandblasted steel with 180 or 80 grit to soften the blast profile/texture. This helps keep the acid in self etching primer from being trapped in the texture (sandblast profile)--watch out not to apply too heavy of a coat. 3)prime the steel with a "mild" self etching primer (chemical adhesion) followed by at least 2 coats of hi-build 2K urethane primer. This (self etch) will neutralize rust in the pores of the sandblasted steel and the (2K) will add a moisture proof layer to protect during storage. 4) When you are ready to do rust repair or filler, you can cut out the replacement areas and repair/weld and do body filler either by grinding off the primer before filler or sanding the(good quality) 2K and applying filler on it (mechanical adhesion). I prefer filler on bare steel, but good fillers will adhere to good cured 2K. If you do either way, remember to sand far enough out on the areas to reprime (over filler) so you have good adhesion. Also if you apply the reprime 2K too heavy, the solvents can lift/wrinkle your filler edge. Etch primer There are 2 basic etch primers- VINYL WASH primer-has more etching capability but no film thickness or build. It needs to be topcoated with a fill primer or sealer and then paint. This type of etch primer should NOT be put over Bondo. It is for bare metal only. MILD ETCH PRIMER WITH SOLIDS-has a milder etch and some fill. It CAN be applied over Bondo. Vari-prime (DUPONT),Wash primer EM (SIKKENS AKSO/NOBEL) are a couple of names that come to mind. This can also be topcoated with a filler primer or primer sealer or directly with paint (industrial application.) You have to check and see what system/brand you are going to use and then get the technical info on the application requirements and read and follow the manufacturers instructions. DO NOT use metal prep before applying etch primer-it needs just a microscopic amount of oxidation to bond with. The phosphoric acid in the etch primer is usually less than 2.5% (by volume) but that bonds with Iron oxide (rust) to form Iron phosphate which is the etching/phosphatiing process. Removing all the rust with metal prep/conditioner (phosphoric acid) will leave nothing for the primer to bond to and can lead to peeling. These systems usually go as follows: Vinyl wash primer-1 medium wet coat (.5 mil) over clean, dry, sanded/sandblasted bare metal. You can see through this coat-its very transparent (vinyl resin). This followed-probably within 30 minutes (wet on wet-no sanding) by a good catalyzed 2 part filler primer for filling and sanding (5-20 mils). Or in straight refinish (trailers/industrial) applications-vinyl wash primer followed wet on wet by a non-sanding primer sealer(1.5-3 mils)-followed by paint. With the milder etch primer you prepare the metal the same-do your bondo work then clean and apply the milder etchprimer (1-2 mils) followed wet on wet/no sanding (probably within 30 minutes- read the tech sheet for the product) by a good catalyzed 2 part filler primer for sanding and blocking. For project cars I usually rough out the metal-do my filler work on the large areas then use the mild etch primer followed by 2 part filler primer. Then for smaller areas I can use the spot filler/ catalyzed glazing putty over the sanded filler primer to smooth out small imperfections. I will probably reprime areas that need more fill and block sanding-then on to paint. If it is going to sit for as while, I prep the steel-then etch prime (either one) followed by good 2 part filler primer. Then when I'm ready for bondo work, I just hit the repair area with a grinder to bare metal and do my bondo work followed by the filler primer. Epoxy primers DO NOT etch the metal. They bond by mechanical adhesion. There are many different epoxies for specific applications. You need to research what will do the job for your intended purpose for which ever primer/paint system you are going to use. The acid in etching primers can cause the epoxy primer catalyst/hardner to change chemically and not cure or possibly fail/peel. The acid in etch primers slows down the catalytic reaction of the hardner in Bondo/body filler (polyester resin-catalyst MEK peroxide). If you put bondo over etch primer and there is still a minute amount of residual acid-you could have a failure/loss of adhesion etc. The amount of acid is very minimal in these primers. It is mixed with a solvent to reduce/thin the primer. If the etch primer is not fully dry and cured there COULD BE be residual acid/solvent in the primer film which could cause the reactions described above. Self etching primers/wash primers, typically have about 5% phosphoric acid (the etch part) in the hardner/reducer that is mixed 1 to 1 with the primer. This makes the acid content of the mixed primer around 2.5%. Acid is always converting with other substances/compounds like the iron oxide in the steel and the solids part of the etch primer or even the compounds in the 2K primer applied over the etch primer. Eventually all the acid will convert and become non-acid compounds. If your etch primer is applied too heavy it can trap solvents in the film which contain a small amount of acid. There is no real accurate way to know the acid content remaining in a heavy application, so it is best to manage your application to avoid this--don't pound it on!--and be VERY CAREFUL in cold shop conditions, as cold panels and air temperature will slow solvent evaporation and the cure of products with a catalyst/hardner. Self etch primer followed by a good 2K primer is an excellent system/foundation for restoration and custom work and you can shop for products that have good quality and price. It also makes an excellent storage coating for projects that won't be completed soon and is still compatible with almost all of the paint systems available for automotive refinish.
Wow! The amount of information in this post is incredible. Would you please recommend a combination of brands/products and describe the proper procedure for my little project? I have a 1 sq. ft. steel part which was stripped down to bare metal, lightly coated with clean engine oil and wrapped in a plastic bag over two years ago. It has been stored in a plastic container in the garage since then. I do not see any rust spots on it today. It is going to sit inside the engine bay but not directly on the engine. It is not a flat piece, has holes, crevices and spot welds. I would like to paint it black. I only have access to rattle cans and would like to spend somewhere around $60 to paint it. I want to do it right and once. Thanks in advance.
Hey man, thank you for this video. I sanded my rear quarter panels and trunk down to bare metal. I have just cans sadly but have gotten great results. It’s a 1k base coat but 2k clear with hardener. I was wondering what would be best to seal the bare metal out of a can. I was thinking self etch all of the bare metal, scuff, 2k primer, then do a wet 600 to smooth it out, base, clear. What are your thoughts? Thank you for your help🙏🏼
Hey man, yes you are on the right track. But get the self etch primer, spray it, you HAVE TO SAND IT if its out of a can, so yes let it dry then sand it and then you can spray directly over that with base and clear unless you burn through then you will need to cover those areas with more self etch. The 2k is highly recommended as well if you have body work to be done and need to use the high build 2k for your blocking. Self etch sprays thin. The 2k will be thicker but 2k is expensive if you buy through a can. 2k means 2 parts meaning 1 part primer, 2nd part harder. Hope I explained this ok
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations thanks a bunch for your reply! I have a couple body work spots that I did of the clean bare metal. So now I was thinking that self etch in your video maybe to coats with a 10min flash between coats, then wait till it completely cures. Sand with 320 grit, apply 2 coats of the 2k primer 10min flash between coats, let that fully cure. Wet sand with 600, clean with a wax and grease remover, apply 2-3 base coats 10min flash between, then 30min flash and apply the clear 15min flash between. I’d like to do it right the best I can in my garage without a compressor. The base and clear cans have a very good fan type spray out of them so I think I should be good with that plan no?
@@HoonGarage excellent. You have your steps spot on. On the 2k wet sand stage though, you may take a long time wetsanding with 600 so you may want to cut it down with 400 so you can smooth out the orange peel faster and cut on your time. You can paint directly over 400 grit unless its a light metallic color like a silver but if its a darker color metallic or solid color, the paint will cover 400 scratches. For a piece of mind you can go back over the 400 with the 600 if you like real quick to knock down the 400 scratches but very lightly so you don't remove too much material but yes you are spot on. God luck to you!
@@HoonGarage You don't really wanna use anything "out of a can" (assuming you are referring to aerosol cans?🤔) on correctly prepped bare metal. IF you CANNOT actually "spray" a good quality Epoxy Sealer on the bare metal (situation). Then simple getcha a decent disposable paint roller/tray set-up and? ROLL some good quality Epoxy on the properly prepped bare metal, and IF needed? Disposable brush for the other areas. IF needed, you might have to thin the Epoxy Sealer with a bit of the suggested Reducer just a bit. ROLL THAT stuff ON! It IS a good substitute for spraying 👍
I'm still not 100% certain on the science of these things.. but this is BY FAR the best explanation of the differences I've come across and I highly appreciate you brother.
Some good info here, but some misinformation aswell... Most self etch primers do not need to be primed over top. You can top coat most self etch primers after they flash off. I use RM self etch everyday in my paint booth. It is used over burn throughs in paint or primer, prior to painting. Also you do not have to use sealer over most primers. You can paint over sanded urethane primer. Sealer is used to create a uniform surface when panels are spot primed or when a certain colour needs a ground coat. I believe the only exceptions are when you prime with a polyester primer, then it needs to be sealed with primer sealer or urethane primer applied over the polyester. The other times we use sealer is when painting bare plastic bumpers and other parts. But the sealer must contain adhesion promoters.
Hi Eddie I applied a coat of self etching primer over my chassis. Can I apply a second coat of the same self etching primer the next day or will the acid affect the previous coating?
Hey, so the acid in this case would not be the problem. The problem is that with self etch primer, your recoat window is within minutes. After 24hrs it is cured and will no longer chemically bond with the next coats so it will need to be scuffed with atleast some red scotch Brite scuff pads to get a mechanical bond for your next coats.
I sand blasted my Model A. Then sprayed it with epoxy. It took me a while to get the body work done. I sanded everything with 120 after then sprayed with another coat of epoxy. Then spayed with high build primer. I’m now sanding that high build primer with 320 now. Should I spray with epoxy once more or should I use reducer in high build primer 4:1:2 and spray it as a sealer before base coating? Or have I gone about the whole thing the wrong way. I’m a damn good mechanic but this body work and paint stuff takes some serious skill and patience. My wife says I’m too much of a perfectionist but after putting this much work into something, I want it to look good and last a long time afterwords. Oh and all the primer I sprayed using Harbor Freight throw away spray guns. (Didn’t throw them away, just cleaned them well after each use) just an hour ago I ordered a devilblss spray gun. It cost me a good chunk but want that base coat and clear to lay down perfectly. Any advise on the tip I need to use for base coat and clear? Sorry for writing a novel but I like your way of explaining things and value any advise you can give. Thank you for everything!
I am so sorry that i over looked your "novel" of a comment lol. It has been several months now since and i'm sure this question was answered by now but just know that you went about your project the right way. epoxy, then did your body work, then more epoxy to seal your bare metal . then you sprayed your high build primer and sanded it. At this point if you did NOT sand through to bare metal anywhere, you are safe to spray your base coat and clear coat over all of that. Moral of the story is, you dont want to spray base coat over bare metal, if any is showing, you spray the spot of bare metal with epoxy and spray base coat directly over that. Hope i wasnt too late and if i was just know you should have a very long lasting finish. again, apologies on my response time..
And this what makes PPG DP90 so popular in the industry , it’s literally 2 products in one deposing on how you mix it , as dtm or as a sealer , just buy the additive to make it sealer and done .
Great presentation. I was wondering how to approach my 1972 Ford Gran Torino Sport diff and this answered all of my questions. Best breakdown I have seen. Good job.
Most people that look for information on how to prime and paint, will be more confused than informed by this video. You could have just told people what to use. Step one - step two - step three! Finished! Watching this video, was a total waste of time.
I enjoyed your video. Subscribed! I have a couple questions. I had my car glass blasted. I plan to epoxy primer and in some areas go direct with por15 (wheel wells). I had to store the car in a pourus garage in the Midwest. I applied Eastwood fast etch to slow the flash rust and every cloth I used linted on the rough surface like mad. I will remove the fast etch with prepared. What is my best option for cleaning off the lint? Scuff pads even seem to leave stuff on the surface. Also after I clean the surface would you recommend I prime before por15. Thank you very much for your time and advice
I appreciate the subscription! I dont have many videos out but thats only because I run a full time shop so feel free to ask any questions you may have. As for the lint have a designated brush that is ONLY used for dusting lint off. When you first purchase the brush, clean it with alcohol very good and once it dries store it in a zip lock bag. Later when you are done blasting and wiping down with the rags, use that brush ONLY to brush off the lint from your now CLEAN surface and also use compressed air to help aid the brush to removing the lint. After that. With extremely low pressure (drag it along if possible) use a tack cloth to pick up any loose lint that may have landed again on the surface from blowing it off prior to painting. As per the POR15 I prefer not to use it anymore. I have had a bad experience where the surface was prepped good and cleaned and it flaked off. Priming first is also not a good idea for POR15 because It is actually designed to bite into the metal and it won't have that bond if there is a barrier like a primer beneath that. The flaking is just my personal experience. I have done it one other time and it is very tough when it does bite in. I just prefer not to use it. On that one I would ask for a second opinion because in a sense after that experience I dont exactly trust it anymore.
what a great video let me ask you a specific question. If i strip a hood to bare metal, is it safe to use specifically SEM etch primer (aerosol), scuff with red scotchbrite, then spray over it with Hi Tech 1k primer/sealer? You say "surfacer or high build." Hi Tech 1k is "low build" on tds. Is it still sufficient to use over etch primer? Thanks
Hey thank you very much for your comment! By doing the SELF ETCH you take care of treating the bare metal. After that you should use a 2k filler primer or surfacer and do your body work on too of that. I would save the sealer for spraying prior to applying your paint if you have indeed already bought the sealer. But if you haven't yet, I personally wouldn't use the sealer unless you are doing it for color coverage purposes to lighten or darken your surface before applying your color.
This may sound like a stupid wuestion but how to i mix a epoxy primer into a sealer speedokote says you can use it as a sealer, but i cant find a mix ratio for it..
@@TheseBygones not a silly question at all. Just thin it down with urethane reducer to where it's thinner and lays down like a base coat basically. So if the epoxy you are using is mixed 4:1 then I would do. 4 parts epoxy, 1 part hardner and 1 part urethane and then spray a little to see if it is thinned down enough to where it sprays smooth through either your 1.2, 1.3 or 1.4 tip which im assuming is what your paint gun will have. If you have anymore questions feel free to ask, no such thing as a bad question here my friend. We are all here to help eachother out.
Thank you so much for the help! So if I have a mix of patched panels on my cab and spots of old primer would I be able to better to just take the pieces one by one into a local shop to save money? I can’t pay for a 30k paint job right now.
Eddie I am an older man with little to no body work experience. I have an old 67 C10 that someone painted purple over the nice original medium blue color inside and out everywhere. I am sanding down areas and exposing bondo filled holes for side mirror mounting etc. I am exposing metal in places and want to continue to remove this purple paint. This will take time and will expose more metal. What do you suggest I do or use when I expose these areas to protect the metal as I slowly continue to work on this truck? I like the video and the information and look forward to the feedback.
First off thank you for your feedback! We'll there are 2 things you can do if working in small increments. You can get yourself the epoxy primer that you need to mix and let site for 20 minutes before applying which Is the best option and simply clean and spray it on the bare metal. I understand this can be a hassle so another option is avaialable that is also good to do. Get yourself aerosol can self etching primer and when u are done exposing bare metal, clean it with wax and grease remover and then give it 2 coats of self etching primer so it can stay protected. This is the faster option.
u must test brtunox! It works as primer and rust inhibitor. But its wery expensive. But it has its place. It the best to repair bare metal undersides where there is rust. It will kill rust in pours... will work as primer and sealer!
Thanks so much for the good info. Can you tell me what is the best spray can product I can use on bare metal to prevent rust before using body filler on top of it?
On spray can you can use the Self etching primer (green in color). But all can ones pretty much need to be sanded before applying anything over top of it.
yes, you will need to 80 grit the surface including the surrounding perimeter of where the body filler will be becuase as you apply your filler you need to apply filler a little bit past your repair area to allow you to blend the repair. so if you have a 1 inch wide dent, you will need to apply filler 2 inches wide. and once its all sanded and levelled out your repair will look like its 1 inch and half wide. Generally speaking.
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations I'm struggling to strip down to bare metal working on 71 Skylark painted 5 times and the 6th coat was bed liner !!! Yeah what fun that was ! Got two patch panels to install and the car is almost stripped. But I got rust on the rooftop tried to sand it out not sure what to do?
@@biggene1711 aircraft paint remover would have helped you a lot...lol As for the rust on the roof just depends how deep the rust is but you need to get rid of all of it. Sand blasting may be required if its too deep.
Does that mean that fading (on epoxy primer) will be a degradation of the layer and it needs sanded and re-applied down the road vs a scuff and topcoat?
I personally recommend scuffing again and epoxying again just to ensure that the UV hasnt damaged it too much to the point where it has started to lose its rust prevention properties.
Thanks for the feedback Eddie I'm currently restoring my 55 handyman and my paint supplier guy said use all epoxy on it I'm on my 8th coat of epoxy I put two coats on bare metal block sandwich 180 do all my body work
That is awesome!! Keep it up! Once you have covered the all the bare metal with epoxy and have successfully done your body work without cutting through back to bare metal, you can safely just use a 2k urethane primer over top of your body work after that. The use of epoxy won't be necessary after that. The main thing is just making sure no bare metal ever shows that is not covered by epoxy
All that 2k means is that the product is a 2 part system (primer and primer hardner/catalyst). when it comes to choosing your base primer that will go directly over your bare metal, you need to choose one or the other between the self etch and the epoxy. its one or the other. Right after Applying either self etch or epoxy, you can go ahead and apply the 2k primer high build or primer surfacer 15-20 minutes which is enough flash time for the etch primer or epoxy primer to dry off and is ready to accept the other primers ontop of it. The self etch and epoxy is what gives your metal the protection it needs against corrosion. the 2k primer surfacers are to level out your body work and so long as when you are doing your body work, you dont sand all the way down to the metal, you dont need to reapply self etch or epoxy, but if you do end up sanding down to bare metal, that spot will need to be sprayed again with self etch or epoxy to give it the protection again.
2k means you have both the product and a hardner. If you buy rattle can epoxy primers they are gonna be about $30 a can. You're better off using self etching primer in rattle can which is $10 a can on average.
Great job with explaining. I plan on using muriatic acid to get rid of my rust. What do you recommend? I plan on painting the interior with an epoxy primer and then paint. But holding off on the exterior for about 6-8 months. What should I use??
best to use epoxy if your going to leave it for a while. if your going to paint it right after and need to sand it with surfacer. there are DTM urethane primers. Just make sure the urethane is DTM and High build. There are not very many of them need to read those data sheets.
Regular spray can stuff is no good. But if you did the brown rusty metal primer that is sold in quarts at the home goods stores like home depot, those work good. Oil based rustoleum works awesome over metal but only if you plan to use rustoleum products over that primer. Oil based ofcourse, not aerosol can stuff.
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations Says ok over clean metal on the can, I prepped the bare metal with Ospho, seems like the repairs I did are solid, with only some initial shrinking over four or five days depending on ambient temperature I usually sand after 3-4days. Plan is to sand 400 wet after all minor repairs are done then seal the entire car before paint with epoxy sealer. The Black Automotive Primer they sell is like $7.00 a can if you buy in bulk, and works like a guide coat because you can see your highs and low spots during sanding with 180 open cut or other finer grits. Believe their black spray can primer has some solvents in it as it attacked previous repair work that appears to have been done with lacquer based primers there was minor wrinkling where I had sanded through the top coat into repair work. Only draw back is the amount of cans I’ve used about 10 cans on 6 panels, convince wise it’s ok don’t need to get any spray equipment out to start your work, and I have a neighbor that seems to take notice of everything I do on the upper part of the driveway, thankfully I have room to work where she cannot see me working on my cars in the back behind a fence. Still have three more body panels to go, including a air dam that has damage. I’ve use RustOleum oil based paint on primed metal, and bare metal as you say, and had really good results on suspension components… Thanks for your insight now need to find someone that will let me use their spray booth for couple days …
very informative. i have a hood taken to bare metal, i planned to do filler work to bare metal, then epoxy over the bodywork then polyester prime over the epoxy. do you think that would be ok?
God bless you for all your useful information about priming. Many beginers get confused what chose and when. Many thanks for your experience and explanations
What particular degreaser do you recommend after sanding before applying epoxy primer? Also, when sanding the rust off the metal, do you recommend finishing it off with a fine high grit sand paper to get it ultra smooth or it’s not necessary? Thanks!
I recommend picking up some wax and grease REMOVER at any auto parts store. And when you get all the rust off with 36,40,60 or even 80 grit. I recommend either leaving it with 80 scratches or you can do 120, or up to 180. I wouldnt go any finer than that because it's best if you leave the scratches there for the epoxy to bond to
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations This is great info, thank you! Lastly, if I have spot surface rusting all over the vehicle, should I sand the entire vehicle (even the non-rusted sections) down to bare metal or just do the rusted areas only? The car is a 1971 and has one layer of original paint on it so if I only sand the rusted areas, I'm not sure how to prep the good painted areas.
@@EEZYEEEE personally if you have the time I would start fresh and sand it all to bare metal and on the same day make sure you apply epoxy primer so it doesn't flash rust over night. But if you choose to just sand rusty areas clean and lets say for example you sanded the bare metal with 80 grit and you have good paint right next to it, you will need to sand that paint with 180 so that when you apply epoxy primer over the bare metal, all the overspray of primer that lands on the paint will mechanically bond to it with those 180 scratches. The important thing to remember here is that if primer lands on paint that is shiny and not dull, the primer will not stick.
Great video and info…. Would it be a good idea to cover a whole flatbed with epoxy primer prior to painting it with a bed liner paint such as Herculiner or Rhino liner?? Thanks!!!
Decided to treat my 82 sierra has some surface rust on the bed I just sanded certain spots to bare metal other spots that weren’t as bad just sanded enough. Sprayed some sandable primer on the whole bed. Bed was mostly decent just scruffed it all up since it had cracks here and there and sprayed it all out with the sandable primer. Would this be ready for paint or do I have to put something on top of the sandable primer? Also is using sandable primer in that application okay?
well for starters the cracks need to be sanded down all the way to eliminate the chances of the cracks running. What I mean is if the cracks are not completely sanded down to where it is no longer present, the crack will continue to crack the new primer and paint that you apply over top of it. If the sandable primer has already been applied, i would recommend spraying a sealer prior to applying your paint top coat. if a sealer is not used, moisture can find its way down in. its a good rule of thumb to always use an epoxy primer as a base for all of your primers. in your case you already applied the sandable primer so you can spray epoxy primer or primer sealer and then paint. if body work needs to be one, do the body work first completely and then right before you spray your paint, spray a coat of epoxy or sealer and then spray paint directly top of it.
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations thanks for replying so quickly, yes cracks will be sanded down. I just sprayed one coat of sandable primer more or less to spot all the imperfections and gotcha.
So if I am redoing the roof of a car that is covered in surface rust and I do the metal scrub and apply Ospho Rust converter. Should I do a 2x epoxy primer or self etch primer and the surface primer before starting the color base?
That is correct, choose either self etch or 2k epoxy primer then after that apply your primer surfacer. After that, you sand your primer surfacer and spray your color
@@redcorsair14 if you can, pull the headliner to see if there is rust from inside the roof... I'm I a similar situation with some roof rust and I'm going to at least peak under the roof to see if the job is bigger then I thought... its a summer project, and I'm waiting for better weather
It would yes but if you are wanting to do body work to fill in scratches you will need a high build primer for that because epoxy is not meant to fill in voids.
@@nopriors oh well for that I would recommend using bulldog adhesion promoter. That is specifically formulated for plastic bumpers and other plastic panels
I’ve been searching RUclips for weeks, trying to research about primers, and everything I’ve been wanting to know, is mostly in your video! Thank you! I wish you would do one on aluminum now, LOL
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations Well, I have sanded an aluminum boat all the way down to bare. I had planned on using TotalBoat ulimi paint, that doesn’t require any primer. But, I don’t like any of the available colors, so then I thought I would go clear down to bare aluminum, then use a 2 part epoxy primer made just for boats, but then I read something about that primer only accepting a certain type of paint. I just want to “back yard” paint the thing and have it look decent. Not to much orange peel, and maybe a semi gloss? I was thinking I would roll and tip it, but now, huh? 😩
@@danstoops8501 generally, the primer you use will tell you what type of chemical base it is and will help you find what is compatible to spray over it. But rustoleum believe it or not has good stuff. Not talking about the spray can stuff. That stuff is not really all that great but the oil based cans that need to be thinned with acetone is great stuff and have great corrosion resistance
I’m a bit confused. I have 67 Chevelle. Let’s say I blast the body down to bare metal but I still need to do bodywork. Everyone keeps repeating “you can’t sand epoxy primer” so why would you spray bare metal with epoxy primer knowing you need to do bodywork but can’t sand it? I think there’s always some confusion on that. So what’s the solution to a bare steel body freshly blasted that you want to protect while you’re spending a year doing body work like patch panels and fillers etc?
Yes that is always a confusing topic. But let me clarify a little better. The reason it is said that you cant sand epoxy primer is because it cloggs up the paper very quickly. So the practice in my shop and other high quality build shops is i spray the car completely with epoxy primer (Black) and then after it flashes (15 mins) I top coat it with Gray Urethane primer. Now you have all of the body completely sealed and left with a good surface to do body work over. You can now 80 grit this surface of Urethane primer and begin your body work process. Once your body work is complete and you end up with bare metal burn throughs during block sanding, you will then repeat the process of spraying the bare metal areas with a layer of epoxy and then urethane primer over top of it again. Be sure ofcourse that the area to be primed is sanded so that the primer sticks. top coats will not bond to unsanded primers. Always be sure to sand before adding layers of primer, paint, or clear coats.
Aslong as it is a 2k epoxy primer meaning it has a hardener/catalyst, it should work very well for you. Essential products are good. But there are soooo many products out there that you can use. But the most important like I said is for it to be a 2k, NOT a 1k meaning it dries without a hardener.
@@alanc.142 if you get the one that comes with an activator, I would assume it would be a good product. They have a good line of products out. I just personally haven't used their epoxy primer. I usually just go to my local PPG auto paint supply store and get my products from there.
Im a newbie and my trouble was paint swelling. I used self etch primer and it would "desert" around putty edges no matter what i did. After i sanded it, applied more, sanded, applyied more and tried to spray paint - i got real nasty swelling of paint. Maybe sealer is actually for that reason? I ended up with 2k epoxy primer and it seems to have helped.
You can use a urethane high build or primer surfacer over that because under that original paint you have the factory self etched sheet metal that already has the protection so no need to seal the steel again.
I'm starting my next project 1936 coupe you answered my questions thanks but I don't want to spend alot of money on primer what's what's low budget but good epoxy primer for a DYI
Thx for the info! Nice to know difference. Coming from the mechanical side of the industry. Never ready knew the what to use for what. Just used whatever was available at the time. LOL 1. Question: is self etching good for aluminum? That’s what we use at work on aluminum wheels on the inside bead to help stop corrosion. What are thoughts on that… Thanks again
Man I am so sorry for just seeing this but yes there are self etching primers designed to work with aluminum. Should say on the back side of the product or on the technical data sheets for the product
Hi there - I have a rusted washing machine lid (with bits of metal coming off), which I will treat with rust converter, and a wire brush and possibly a sander to get all the rust out. I was thinking maybe I could use auto bondo filler to repair the rusted lid & sand down. I am confused on what to use & the order of steps, if you can help please. 🤣 Is it remove rust > convert > epoxy primer > bondo > sand > base coat > clear coat? I'm leaning towards using epoxy primer (not etch primer), since the lid needs to be water resistant & since I need to use bondo? If the epoxy primer is white, and I don't care about the finish, can I use the epoxy > bondo > epoxy > clear? Also, what's primer surfacer & epoxy enamel? Are either required in my situation? Thank you!!! 🤙
ok so since its for a washer, i have an even more inexpensive way of repairing that which im sure considering how late im responding, you probably already have a new washing machine lol but what you could have done is remove rust as much as possible, go to home depot, get you some rusty metal primer rustoleum that comes in a quart. you would need a little cheap spray gun to do this. Thin that primer down with acetone, then after spraying that maroon looking primer on, get you some oil based rustoleum paint in gloss white and paint it with that. that rustoleum holds up very good to rust. NOT THE SPRAY CANS though. those are not good.
I have some eastwood epoxy primer that I want to use. Will that be ok for any manufacturers paint? I'm planning on a good quality single stage. Thanks.
So I have some rust i sanded down area used bondo filler, sprayed self etching then rustolum sandals primer. It started to bubble. Thought it was from not letting sandable primer dry between coats.
Can you paint epoxy primer over PPG Durathane DTM? I'm scared to do it if it won't stick or some weird chemical reaction. Killer video! I learned so much!
You can definately spray epoxy primer over any product without running the risk if reaction. Epoxy can be used as a sealer as well prior to painting. And thanks a lot for your positive feedback! Means a lot!
I am painting boat trailer fenders that are rusty. I am using paint striper to remove the existing paint and then sand and clean. Next I was going to use rust converter because they are really rusty then seal with epoxy primer then paint with top coat! Is that correct procedure? Also can you recommend good spray paint can topcoat???
That is the correct procedure however read carefully the instructions on the rust converter as to the preparation before you apply the epoxy primer. Since the epoxy primer adds the protection, you can use any spray can of your choice. There are several reviews as to which has the best rust prevention protection and then the best finishes. Strictly preference at that point. I had always used Krylon all in one satin black but lately I've noticed that the shine on the finish has changed. The cans are now spraying a finish with more shine than before. Not sure why.
We are building a river table and found a painted, industrial, base that we have sanded down to bare metal. We have used an angle grinder to get nice swirls and would like to just clear coat it. Can we just use a 2K epoxy and get waterproof and rust protections? What is your recommendation to finish it to keep it from rusting?
Clear coat helps against corrosion when clearing a bare metal finish however you NEED to remove all of the rust because if now it will come back. 2k epoxy has Excellent corrosion resistance. The best option to use atop bare metal
Thank you. You Def answered my questions. I have a 03' Police interceptor and you know what the paint does on them. So I am going to sand it to the metal and get to it. Thanx again brother.
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations I'm currently restoring the t-tops weather stripping and retainer plates on my 88 Cutlass supreme GT. Had a little rust around the front header panel up under one of the weather strip retainers so I cut it out and had my buddy weld in another weather strip retainer and cleaned up the metal everywhere. I wanted to go with self etching primer and I'm just learning from a couple of other sources and your video that I have to use a urethane primer over the top of self etching primer and that I can't just paint over the self etching primer and body work. And that I have to do the body work under the self etching and primer on the metal first. I was about to go about it the wrong way because I know nothing about body work and this is my first car. I'm glad that I know to do body work first, then self etching primer, then some kind of primer sealer high build primer or urethane primer, as the third step. Then base coat and clear coat after. I know I have to wet sand my clear coat and maybe even my base coat if I get some orange peel. Are there any other steps that I'm missing that you could help me out with? I don't have a huge area that I'm painting, but again this is my first time and I'm just trying to make sure I have all the right information and this is done right. The car and I are the same age and this is the car that I came home from the hospital in. So it has nostalgia and kind of has a soft place in my heart. I want to get it done right the first time and I feel like you're the guy to ask. Thank you for your quick reply and your willingness to help.
@@lestatdelioncourt7513 i feel bad now that I took a while to reply this time around. So let me recap. The preferred way to go about it is a bit more costly but its the best method. So clean the metal completely of rust, spray it with either self etching primer OR epoxy primer. Then clean out your spray gun and and by the time you clean it out, and mix up urethane primer, the self etching primer or epoxy primer will be ready to be top coated with the urethane primer of your choice either it be smooth or high build. Once this is done you can 80 grit sand the area that needs body filler and try to only sand the top layer of primer and not to get down to your epoxy primer. Its a good idea to get different colors because this will definitely serve as a guide to know how far you have sanded. I go with black epoxy primer and gray urethane primer. Once i have completed my body filler work, if I burn through the black epoxy primer and am showing metal in any areas, i reapply epoxy primer over the bare metal and then urethane over the top of the epoxy. This is the absolute best way to completely seal and protect your metal underneath to have the longest lasting rust free finish. Again if I wasnt clear in any way, feel free to ask more questions. I dont mind. Just bear with me on the response time.
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations Im I am using self etching primer because of the rust that was there I'm not ever wanting to come back. Is this the best that's what I was told to use and don't want to switch over to epoxy primer if self etching primer is better for rust. I'm also using spray cans and not a spray gun. The area that I'm spraying wouldn't make any sense for me to buy a spray gun because I'm doing a 6 inch by 40 inch area and maybe 1 inch of that is actually my roof all the rest of it is stuff that's going to be covered by t-top plates and weather strip retainers up under my glass. LOL that's the only reason why I'm even comfortable with doing this job is because most of it is going to be covered. I was going to use Rust-Oleum green self etching primer and then rust-oleums sealer primer and gray or high build primer. I'm also curious about the process that you were talking about bc almost everything I've read on the internet and what other people are telling me is that Bondo will not stick as well two primer and especially will not stick to self etching primer so that if I want to use self etching primer the Bondo and body work should be done first and then self etching primer and filler primer after. I was asking you was my way of going about it that I had talked about a correct way to go about it because I would rather you self etching primer and if I use it do I have to do the Bondo first. I'm not using epoxy primer not unless there's some reason or some better coverage for rust if self-etching primer works better for rust long term, I would rather use that. As for the base coat and clear coat, that I've already bought (also in a spray can because this area is so small) I will see what it is and get your opinions on it tomorrow when I can go to the shop and type in the correct labels. I know that the clear coat is by DupliColor and the base coat is a black by Rust-Oleum. I've also heard that black on a car is one of the hardest colors to match and I've been worried about that as well. Just really need to know your opinion about the Bondo process coming first because of the self etching primer if I'm going to be able to match blacks at all, if I'm screwing up with going with the cheap black base coat and the cheap clear coat that I bought in a can, and if you think self itching primer is a better more safe and long-term protection and way to go rather than epoxy primer because if I'm doing epoxy primer I can basically spray paint it anyway I want but I just want it to be more protected from rust. Sorry this is so long thank you so much I'm sorry that I didn't include that I had spray cans and all this other stuff the first time.
@@lestatdelioncourt7513 oh okay i understand now. Okay so lets clesr up the confusion. Body filler DOES stick to primer, and i also DOES stick to paint. If not all the collision businesses are doing it all wrong lol. There is always an area where the bodyfiller overlaps over to the painted surface when doing body work because yoj try to blend it smooth together. Yes you can spray the self etching SPRAY CAN over the body work if you like however you need to do light coats. If you lay it on too heavy it will make a chemical reaction with the body filler. And then you may apply high build primer over top of the self etch once its dry (15 mins after). All your coats need to have about 10-15 minutes dry time between coats. Once you have done body work and both layers of primer now you move on to your final block sand with 400 grit sand paper and smooth out all the body work imperfections. If you burn through to steel, you will need to reapply self etch on the exposed metal then high build primer again. Once you are 400 sanded and all is ready for paint, you spray your sealer, let that flash off for 10 minutes, then spray your black 2-3coats, then clear coat. If it is not a metallic black you should have a problem. There are generally 2 common blocks. One has a brownish color to it and the other a blueish tint to it. You just need to figure out which one you have just by looking at it in the sun or at night with a flashlight. The clear coat will need a lot of coats if you plam to wet sand and buff. If you dont apply enough coats, your clear will be very thin and will burn off eithin a year more than likely. I would apply 4 heavy coats so you can atleast end up with 3
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations ikr 😆 Seriously though, good information, just if you have to explain it to someone that throughly they probably have no business trying to do that kina work, and if you are trying to sell it as a service you are better off saying either you want it done right or done cheap.
There are 2 ways you can do this. The more inexpensive way is sandblast or sand down the whole car, spray the complete car with epoxy primer to seal it so it does not Flash rust overnight. The following day when you are ready to start your body work you can sand the the epoxy primer In the area that you are going to work Down to metal. Apply your body filler and make sure that body filler is always making contact with a sanded surface.. It is OK if the body filler makes contact with sanded epoxy primer. Once you are done doing your body work spray epoxy primer over your body work to seal it off from from any moisture. Another way would be, Sand blast the car, spray your epoxy primer, then spray urethane Primer surfacer Or high build primer on top of the epoxy doing roughly 7-10 minutes between coats on your epoxy then your primer surfacer. Now the following day you can sand with 80 grit your primer surfacer and you can apply body filler directly over that and you will have the best possible seal.
Hmm...ive never used it as a stand alone product but I've used VHT epoxy black paint on its own and has held up great on parts as a stand alone product.
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations vht is ok. I prefer por15 topcoat as it is dtm as well but both are not chemical resistant. I'm going to try black 2k epoxy primer on my next project.
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations I referred to por15 topcoat not the por15 regular. Its a different product. Por15 is on but I didn't like how little pigment in had and it was way too glossy for any chassis work IMO. Their topcoat is great tho as it is dtm, dried extremely hard but as mentioned before is not resistant to chemicals. POR15 tho was very hard and durable for me even painted on untreated raw metal. I just wish there was one product that was durable, sealed, and had the right gloss for chassis work. Anything that is out there either requires primer, or some other atribute that I dont like. Im trying Spraymax epoxy 2k in the aerosol right now and will share my experience. Probably not UV stable product and likely too flat appearance but we shall see.
@@dm9103 in my opinion, rustoleum OIL BASED out of the gallon or quart cans in satin finish is the best long lasting and factory looking finish other than powder coating. The fact that its oil based is what helps against rust
Awesome info... i am doing some rust repair on my car roof... ill need to sandblast just a bit in a few spots, i may need to put a small piece of fiberglass in a dime sized hole, then a bit of bondo. So my process would be: Blast , clean, self etch , primer sealer/surfacer, fiberglass, a bit of bondo or putty, sanding in between, primer, base coat, clear coat?
mostly correct except dont use straight fiberglass, use a reinforced filler that is basically body filler mixed with fiberglass. But yes Blast, clean, self etch, primer surfacer, then sand with 80 grit to scratch up the primer EVERYWHERE that the reinforced filler and bondo will touch and then apply the fillers. you dont want to apply filler to an unsanded surface because it can delaminate.
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations... its too expensive to get any kind of bodywork/ repair done on my 2009 corolla... these bodyshop guys around here are quoting me $2500 to $3500 for what I'm trying to do... the car is worth like $6000 max LOL... I know the price of raw materials is up but geeze
@@mikep509 yea unfortunately the cost of paint is very expensive now. For example, im painting my personal truck soon and in primers, paint, and clear im going to spend roughly $1500 in materials alone. Thats not including my labor so the materials are definately up there. Just to give you an idea, right now I wont paint a bumper for any less than $650..
100% support your statement about the all in one primer paint. I used to use that to cover rusted spots on frame and suspension of my semi. Even w when cleaning all the rust, rust came through, which is exactly why I'm here learning about primer
So doing my 1st paint job car has a lot of spots where it burned through since it was previously ssnded by last owner. I did 320 and 400 now ready for primer. So am i correct here i can spray it with eastwoods epoxy primer (whole car in this instance instead of spots since its got so many lows. Then use my fillers and glazes as needed. Then spray eastwoods contour primer.. then do my block sanding to get my lows and highs taken care of (400grit) then paint my single stage red then clear.
I never used a self etch primer I just paint my own vehicles myself but haven't got a good paint job when painted my truck before but will probably paint my truck again between April-June messed up last time sanding epoxy primer last year but shouldn't of did it got orange peel on truck used a regular clear but this year will apply a glamour clear but still gonna apply a metallic base on my truck but painting my car too from a black that is now to midnight purple. Will be using a DTM epoxy primer though. Never used a glamour clear before just a regular clear urethane clear but using a urethane base.
Well epoxy primer is always DTM. Personally I would strip the existing paint off and start fresh. But thats just me. I like the peace of mind. But wish you the best on your paint job, sounds like its gonna be nice!
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations never stripped a whole vehicle to bare metal but when I do have the time it be the weekend and it would take too long if stripping the paint to bare metal and painting for me. I do have time off work more could take in summer but stripping paint to bare metal would be a long process and was gonna paint two vehicles of mine by myself. Gonna do the car first though is in garage now thinking about doing it outside in backyard sanding it first with 600 grit it has rust on it so will use my paint stripper to get rid of the rust off then use epoxy primer after I clean the bare metal with a wax and grease remover then use Bondo body filler on spots have to fill in then sand the spots flat and then apply a urethane primer. Then apply primer sealer black have a gallon of it then use this metallic urethane basecoat got Starfire I have used before then apply a regular clear last on the car but my truck wanna sand it with 220 grit flat around the whole truck a couple spots are chipped on truck from the last time used a rotary polisher though but after applying base will not apply too wet like have did in past because have gotten too much orange peel then apply a glamour clear last I have medium hardner plus reducer and fast hardner and reducer but never used fast reducer and activator or slow reducer and activator either. I only been trying to paint a couple of years almost but not every month out of the year and not winter plus don't have the right heater to paint in winter in garage.
Nicely Done! 💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥 Ive been saying for a while that epoxy primer is the way to go... Put some Hot Rod Black or Pitch Black KBS Max Seal over it (UV protection) for a top coat and it will last a lifetime!!!! You can mix the both of them to get a Semi Gloss or Satin Black... My question is though what would you recommend on the high heat surfaces? Like Engine blocks, brake rotor hats and calipers? Can the Epoxy still be alright? And then go with a Poly/Urethane top coat? Or will only an Acrylic Enamel or Ceramic have to Work? (I do know that the Ceramic paint for a base is the best on headers/exhaust manifolds and those Enamel/Ceramic combos that they use fir clear coats) I do know that some of the guys swear by brushing on the Rust-Oleum Rusty Metal Primer on Engine blocks, but have to heat up the metal with a blowtorch or something with high heat first to get any moisture out of the metal block (especially an iron block because of it's porous nature, another words prep work will determine the quality and is key!!! So after getting moisture out, wipe entire block down with acetone, then a final wipe with Isopropyl Alcohol, denatured Alcohol, or a surface prep degreaser... Like what you did there on the explanations of the Acid in self etching primers...
epoxy is a very good base for sure but as for the question about high heat surfaces, unfortunately epoxy will not hold up to much heat. Engine blocks dont only get hot themselves but all of the enclosed additional heat in the engine bay makes for an even hotter surface. urethane paints will also flake if its on a vehicle that gets driven a lot. i've painted engine blocks and truth be told, all paint eventually either burns or flakes off in chunks eventually after going through a lot of heat cycles. All of these show cars you see generally dont get driven hardly enough which is why they are able to maintian the paint on there so long. Ceramic coatings are generally the strongest finishes for things like headers. As for using the rusty metal primer on the engine block, I can't say I have ever tried that. i'm not exactly sure how well that rustoleum would hold up to high heat. But it sure holds up to rust very good. NOT the aerosal spray cans, but the quarts or gallons that you mix with acetone. That is good stuff.
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations Uncle Tony's Garage and Dons Manufactory did a nice segment on that Rust-Oleum Rusty Metal Primer in the Qt/Gallon cans... Tony Swears by it on the Engine block... Again, the key is the prep work to get out EVERY bit of moisture in the cold block, so it must be either blow torched or sit in a baking oven for an hour first...
Question for ya- so after spraying a bare metal car in epoxy, I do no sanding and then spray 2k urethane primer over the epoxy and sand THAT to prefection for my top coat clear coat?
That is exactly right. You can do 2 coats of epoxy primer, then RIGHT AFTER the epoxy has about 10 minutes of flash time, you can directly spray the urethane primer or high build primer over it. You can either do your body work under this step, or after this step.. if you do it after this step, you will need to sand your urethane primer with 80 grit in the areas where you will be applying your body filler.
It's me again. So I got my bare metal car sprayed in epoxy primer. I wasn't planning to do any sanding before moving on to urethane primer, but the epoxy has some grit to it, and some dirt as well. Would you recommend a quick knock down sand before urethane? If so, what grit would you choose? Thank you so much!!!
@@designsinorbit hey so glad to hear you're moving forward on your project. So the good news is since this is under the urethane high build, the finish isnt important because the high build primer surfacer will fill all of that. However, if you have a lot of grit that appears to be like dry specs of product then you're going to want to knock that down super quickly with any sand paper from 180-400 depending completely on how severe the grit is but sand VERY LIGHT. Almost no pressure at all just glide over the epoxy with the sand paper just to knock any loose grit down because that gritty dry epoxy can also act like loose dirt on the panel, which would cause adhesion problems. But yes just knock the loose down very lightly and then clean again with wax and grease remover.
Very helpful,. I have recently transferred to working as a sandblaster/ painter and this clip was very clear on what can be a difficult chemistry process.
I'm in the restoration business and speaking to those who are wanting to GET INTO to the restoration business. A person already in it is not going to be watching my video. And if they are then yes the video is for them too because clearly they are in need of a recap 🤣 lol. It happens.
This video has been the best explaining how to select the right combination. All of the manufacturers' videos are junk. None of them explain the complete procedure and you cannot find any useful information on their website as well. This was very informative. Thanks a bunch.
You're very welcome! If you have any further questions about this, feel free to ask. I'll be glad to help
Good video. I think a lot of people that try 1k rattle can epoxy, don't clean well then do a dust coat, before they pile it on. Rattle cans are tricky, you got to really shake them up good. It also helps to put them in warm water to warm up the paint a little IMO. If your can has been hitting in doors and the paint is say 72 degrees, its not going to flow as well as a can that is say 85deg.
Someone ELSE knows how to use aerosols....😏 And ESPECIALLY, with "today's aerosol paints", as MOST of em are way more thinned down compared to days of old, when the aerosol paints were way thicker, with actual PAINT!..... Course nowadays? We pay ALOT more and are gettin ALOT LESS "product". Happy Restoring!
I keep coming back to this video as I do my 63 Biscayne. Good video with great information - Thanks!
you are very welcome, if you have any further questions feel free to drop a comment and i will do my best to get back to you on a timely manner. Best of luck on your 63!
I lay paint down overtop off self etching primer. When I did my 98 I D/A sanded it all down did all the bodywork laid down three coats of Pro Forum self etching primer blocked the primer each coat then went directly to paint this is how I do all my projects and I've yet to have a problem did my 98 years ago still looks great.
The general self etching primer is only designed to be applied to bare metal and top coated with a urethane or high build primer. Pro form 1k self etching primer is designed to be top coated after it is sanded as indicated on the Technical data sheets for THAT product. So in your case it is safe for you to do that. But generally most self etching primers are not formulated to work that way. I appreciate your comment Taylor.
Finally a complete understandable break down.... Thank You!
Youre very welcome 🙏
Where ever you got your information from you can thank them for it. They were right and correct about everything you’ve mentioned here. Which makes this an awesome video for people to learn from. I’m so glad that this information is spot on and can be taken to heart by those needing to know the right way to do things. So many people prime panels and cars and then let them set. Regular surface Primer is porous!!! It’s not going to keep the weather off and you are asking for trouble. Meaning oxidizing. Question. Why is the paint can lettering appear like it’s a mirror reflection? We’re you looking into a mirror while you shoot this video? Weird.
Very good explanation here.
@@charlesloar3210 thank you very much!
This guy knows what he is talking about always use epoxy primer on bare metal and sealing before a paint job always nib sand after sealing for a cleaner job or there is a direct to metal black for chassis and that works very well hard knocks for 30 years
Really appreciate your comment, thank you 🙏
Excellent video! Very informative. Thanks for the info.
Youre very welcome 🙏
a few questions (1.) if using black epoxy primer if I just clearcoat it then its UV stable right?? (2.) I want to put some metal flake in the paint job should I lay down some 2 coats epoxy with no flake then just 1 top coat of epoxy with flake in and then 3 coats clearcoat over the epoxy , or do my 3 coats of epoxy then a coat of clear with metal flake an then 2 coats of clearcoat over that??
And it is just for my front and rear differentials, driveshafts, and springs and I have it in stock and need to save some money an hoping to not have to buy more paint.. thank for sharing
Can you use epoxy primer over a burn through and chipped a small spot on my vehicle.
What can you say about 2K urethane? High build primer to bare metal.
2k urethane is great but not for bare metal applications. Over time I've noticed that it doesn't do well without having either epoxy or self etch under.
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations ok would it be OK to use a single primer edge? I can use for bare metal and then use a 2K urethane primer over that. Would that work?
@@vincentnarvaez6520 if the 1k primer is designed for bare metal application then yes it would be good to apply it under your urethane but 2k products always give better and longer lasting results.
I’m currently stripping my hood to bare metal, I planned to just clean it, and then put barely metal primer on it and then use some Krylon black and then 2K clear, is there anything I should change about that order? And is there any additional steps or time between those steps you’d suggest? Thanks in advance
By bare metal primer, which primer do you mean exactly? They sell some self etching primers like the one shown on the video in aerosol cans. You can apply that self etch if you dont want to do the epoxy for cost reasons, sand the self etching primer after a few hours. Then apply your krylon, 5-10 minutes between coats, then after about 15 minutes start applying clear. 15 minutes between coats
I did somebody work on my car so what primer should I use primer surfacer?
If you didn't go down to bare metal i would just use a primer surfacer. If you did go down to bare metal i would spray some epoxy primer and then some primer surfacer
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations I went down to bare and put some Bondo it's all strate now . Do I use epoxy primer from a can or can I use it in a gun? Then I'll shoot primer surfacer?
@@phillipgonzalez5407 i would use a 2k (2 part) sprayable epoxy and the primer surfacer on top of it right after it flashes off.
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations okay do I use a polyester primer surfacer or a urethane primer surfacer and once I do that can I shoot my baseco over that or am I missing a step?
@@phillipgonzalez5407 you can spray an epoxy primer first on your bare metal work. Then after that you can spray either a polyester or urethane. Whichever you decide. The epoxy primer is the one that will seal it, the urethane or poly will help you get your body work straight and smooth.
Epoxy primer is good, but it has nothing in it to prevent rust, it's just primer. Self-Etching Primer has Zinc in it, which is a sacrificial metal, so before corrosion will go after the metal below it will go after the zinc in the Self Etching Primer instead. Basically when you are using Self-Etching Primer you are ZINC COATING your metal... and that zinc coating is "ETCHING" into the metal below it, creating no space for water molecules to get in. Epoxy primer is very tough, and you can spray it over existing paint and body work, but it provides no actual corrosion protection in and over itself other than it is a coating.
Correct on the self etching primers but as for the others, E coating and epoxy primer provide corrosion resistance as per the technical data sheets as well as DTM primers which carry the etching process within it. All 4 of those products are designed to give corrosion resistance which is why they are used after sand blasting or media blasting vehicles.
As an ASE master tech since 1978, I am not a painter but have done 6 or 7 of our own (3 boys) but this was clear information about the way to make you project last. Rock chips to bare metal can spiderweb rust under the paint 6” all directions and I was shocked to see that.
Epoxy to me “Is” the place to start on cleaned, prepped bare metal. Some have a 24 he window while others have 7 days. The ASTM “Salt Spray” test in hours tell you everything. Epoxy is sticking to everything with chemical cross-linking, solvents evaporating with almost a plastic wrap type protection. At 6’ 3” and big hands, spend the $6 for a rattle can spray handle. It makes it so easy to control, overlap and speed because your thumb is not changing best practices for applying a finish, even if it’s under the vehicle. With practice, 10% quaility urethane reducer added to an epoxy product makes a smooth sealer. I prefer the word primer not even be on the can but it is. As always, follow manufacturers product sheets and measure properly using good overlap and your base will stick to epoxy, epoxy sticks to your paint ready project. Now a rock chip may not flake off as easy.
Son, I subscribed and liked what I heard. You will do well and some side-by-side destruction test panels. That will get attention. I too don’t care for DTM coatings because I have seen the feathered edges of primer and filler lift & curl as the acid eats into it. That kills your day! Thanks for the information!
I am blown away with your awesome comment. Thank you very much for all of your input.
Here's PPGs definition of "properly prepared"
What Does "Properly Prepared Bare Metal" Mean?
In many of our product data sheets, you may notice this or a similar statement under the Compatible Surfaces or Substrates section:
“May be applied over properly prepared and treated bare metal”. But what does this mean?
This means that your bare metal substrate must be properly sanded and treated with an appropriate direct-to-metal product such as an SX metal treatment, etch primer, or epoxy primer prior to applying anything else. These coatings insure adhesion for subsequent layers over the bare metal as well as provide additional corrosion protection.
This step is especially important when using urethane primers or sealers. Their chemistry typically does not provide adhesion to bare metal - they must only be used over treated bare metal to insure optimum adhesion. So if you happen to sand through to metal, apply a bit of etch primer to insure it sticks!
Soooooo---
If you sandblast or aggressively sand steel panels you remove the phosphate coating, which is the first step to protect steel from rusting. There are 2 basic ways to replace the phosphate coating: metal prep/acid wash--and--self etching primer. Epoxy primers do not convert or stop rust chemically, and most of the popular epoxy primers have little film build, long cure times and can absorb moisture and solvent--PLUS--most epoxy primer tech sheets recommend treating the metal with metal prep/acid wash for the best corrosion protection. Over the last 50 years, lead, zinc and chromate have been removed by law from paints. These are heavy molecules added to paints to protect from Ultra Violet, chemicals and moisture. The acid in metal prep (phosphoric acid) can affect the hardner part of epoxy primers causing them to air dry but not cure partially or completely. This is why most epoxy primer tech sheets recommend completely neutralizing the acid/metal prep before applying epoxy primer. Epoxy primers have been "sales promoted" pretty heavily in the last 50 years. I remember PPG/Ditzler promoting their DP40 primers with "Just DP it and Forget it", but that was back when DP epoxy primer actually had lead in it and they kept on promoting it because they knew regulations were already removing lead from paint products. Now they are selling DPLF (lead free) epoxy primer. Back then, if I needed to use epoxy (on restorations) I used DPU 35 epoxy (from their aircraft and industrial line) which had 3 times the film build and cured at least 3 times faster-and contained lead. We used metal prep on rusty steel first, and then the DPU35-per PPG tech sheets. Today, I see PPG has some really nice high build epoxy primers (again from their industrial products) that are becoming popular for high end restorations--VP2050 and CRE-X21--of course lead and chromate free. These are quite expensive and still are recommended over properly treated steel (metal conditioner).
For the "informed" hobbyist, I recommend the following on sandblasted steel:
1)Sandblast- carefully to avoid warping.
2)DA sand the sandblasted steel with 180 or 80 grit to soften the blast profile/texture. This helps keep the acid in self etching primer from being trapped in the texture (sandblast profile)--watch out not to apply too heavy of a coat.
3)prime the steel with a "mild" self etching primer (chemical adhesion) followed by at least 2 coats of hi-build 2K urethane primer. This (self etch) will neutralize rust in the pores of the sandblasted steel and the (2K) will add a moisture proof layer to protect during storage.
4) When you are ready to do rust repair or filler, you can cut out the replacement areas and repair/weld and do body filler either by grinding off the primer before filler or sanding the(good quality) 2K and applying filler on it (mechanical adhesion). I prefer filler on bare steel, but good fillers will adhere to good cured 2K. If you do either way, remember to sand far enough out on the areas to reprime (over filler) so you have good adhesion. Also if you apply the reprime 2K too heavy, the solvents can lift/wrinkle your filler edge.
Etch primer
There are 2 basic etch primers-
VINYL WASH primer-has more etching capability but no film thickness or build. It needs to be topcoated with a fill primer or sealer and then paint. This type of etch primer should NOT be put over Bondo. It is for bare metal only.
MILD ETCH PRIMER WITH SOLIDS-has a milder etch and some fill. It CAN be applied over Bondo. Vari-prime (DUPONT),Wash primer EM (SIKKENS AKSO/NOBEL) are a couple of names that come to mind. This can also be topcoated with a filler primer or primer sealer or directly with paint (industrial application.)
You have to check and see what system/brand you are going to use and then get the technical info on the application requirements and read and follow the manufacturers instructions.
DO NOT use metal prep before applying etch primer-it needs just a microscopic amount of oxidation to bond with. The phosphoric acid in the etch primer is usually less than 2.5% (by volume) but that bonds with Iron oxide (rust) to form Iron phosphate which is the etching/phosphatiing process. Removing all the rust with metal prep/conditioner (phosphoric acid) will leave nothing for the primer to bond to and can lead to peeling.
These systems usually go as follows:
Vinyl wash primer-1 medium wet coat (.5 mil) over clean, dry, sanded/sandblasted bare metal. You can see through this coat-its very transparent (vinyl resin). This followed-probably within 30 minutes (wet on wet-no sanding) by a good catalyzed 2 part filler primer for filling and sanding (5-20 mils). Or in straight refinish (trailers/industrial) applications-vinyl wash primer followed wet on wet by a non-sanding primer sealer(1.5-3 mils)-followed by paint.
With the milder etch primer you prepare the metal the same-do your bondo work then clean and apply the milder etchprimer (1-2 mils) followed wet on wet/no sanding (probably within 30 minutes- read the tech sheet for the product) by a good catalyzed 2 part filler primer for sanding and blocking.
For project cars I usually rough out the metal-do my filler work on the large areas then use the mild etch primer followed by 2 part filler primer. Then for smaller areas I can use the spot filler/ catalyzed glazing putty over the sanded filler primer to smooth out small imperfections. I will probably reprime areas that need more fill and block sanding-then on to paint.
If it is going to sit for as while, I prep the steel-then etch prime (either one) followed by good 2 part filler primer. Then when I'm ready for bondo work, I just hit the repair area with a grinder to bare metal and do my bondo work followed by the filler primer.
Epoxy primers DO NOT etch the metal. They bond by mechanical adhesion. There are many different epoxies for specific applications. You need to research what will do the job for your intended purpose for which ever primer/paint system you are going to use.
The acid in etching primers can cause the epoxy primer catalyst/hardner to change chemically and not cure or possibly fail/peel.
The acid in etch primers slows down the catalytic reaction of the hardner in Bondo/body filler (polyester resin-catalyst MEK peroxide). If you put bondo over etch primer and there is still a minute amount of residual acid-you could have a failure/loss of adhesion etc.
The amount of acid is very minimal in these primers. It is mixed with a solvent to reduce/thin the primer. If the etch primer is not fully dry and cured there COULD BE be residual acid/solvent in the primer film which could cause the reactions described above. Self etching primers/wash primers, typically have about 5% phosphoric acid (the etch part) in the hardner/reducer that is mixed 1 to 1 with the primer. This makes the acid content of the mixed primer around 2.5%. Acid is always converting with other substances/compounds like the iron oxide in the steel and the solids part of the etch primer or even the compounds in the 2K primer applied over the etch primer. Eventually all the acid will convert and become non-acid compounds. If your etch primer is applied too heavy it can trap solvents in the film which contain a small amount of acid. There is no real accurate way to know the acid content remaining in a heavy application, so it is best to manage your application to avoid this--don't pound it on!--and be VERY CAREFUL in cold shop conditions, as cold panels and air temperature will slow solvent evaporation and the cure of products with a catalyst/hardner.
Self etch primer followed by a good 2K primer is an excellent system/foundation for restoration and custom work and you can shop for products that have good quality and price. It also makes an excellent storage coating for projects that won't be completed soon and is still compatible with almost all of the paint systems available for automotive refinish.
Wow! The amount of information in this post is incredible. Would you please recommend a combination of brands/products and describe the proper procedure for my little project? I have a 1 sq. ft. steel part which was stripped down to bare metal, lightly coated with clean engine oil and wrapped in a plastic bag over two years ago. It has been stored in a plastic container in the garage since then. I do not see any rust spots on it today. It is going to sit inside the engine bay but not directly on the engine. It is not a flat piece, has holes, crevices and spot welds. I would like to paint it black. I only have access to rattle cans and would like to spend somewhere around $60 to paint it. I want to do it right and once. Thanks in advance.
This was BEYOND helpful, thank you!
Yup remember dp came out with the lf ,401 to 402 catalyst didn't like it.
Hey man, thank you for this video. I sanded my rear quarter panels and trunk down to bare metal. I have just cans sadly but have gotten great results. It’s a 1k base coat but 2k clear with hardener. I was wondering what would be best to seal the bare metal out of a can. I was thinking self etch all of the bare metal, scuff, 2k primer, then do a wet 600 to smooth it out,
base, clear. What are your thoughts? Thank you for your help🙏🏼
Hey man, yes you are on the right track. But get the self etch primer, spray it, you HAVE TO SAND IT if its out of a can, so yes let it dry then sand it and then you can spray directly over that with base and clear unless you burn through then you will need to cover those areas with more self etch. The 2k is highly recommended as well if you have body work to be done and need to use the high build 2k for your blocking. Self etch sprays thin. The 2k will be thicker but 2k is expensive if you buy through a can. 2k means 2 parts meaning 1 part primer, 2nd part harder. Hope I explained this ok
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations thanks a bunch for your reply! I have a couple body work spots that I did of the clean bare metal. So now I was thinking that self etch in your video maybe to coats with a 10min flash between coats, then wait till it completely cures. Sand with 320 grit, apply 2 coats of the 2k primer 10min flash between coats, let that fully cure. Wet sand with 600, clean with a wax and grease remover, apply 2-3 base coats 10min flash between, then 30min flash and apply the clear 15min flash between. I’d like to do it right the best I can in my garage without a compressor. The base and clear cans have a very good fan type spray out of them so I think I should be good with that plan no?
@@HoonGarage excellent. You have your steps spot on. On the 2k wet sand stage though, you may take a long time wetsanding with 600 so you may want to cut it down with 400 so you can smooth out the orange peel faster and cut on your time. You can paint directly over 400 grit unless its a light metallic color like a silver but if its a darker color metallic or solid color, the paint will cover 400 scratches. For a piece of mind you can go back over the 400 with the 600 if you like real quick to knock down the 400 scratches but very lightly so you don't remove too much material but yes you are spot on. God luck to you!
@@HoonGarage You don't really wanna use anything "out of a can" (assuming you are referring to aerosol cans?🤔) on correctly prepped bare metal. IF you CANNOT actually "spray" a good quality Epoxy Sealer on the bare metal (situation). Then simple getcha a decent disposable paint roller/tray set-up and? ROLL some good quality Epoxy on the properly prepped bare metal, and IF needed? Disposable brush for the other areas. IF needed, you might have to thin the Epoxy Sealer with a bit of the suggested Reducer just a bit. ROLL THAT stuff ON! It IS a good substitute for spraying 👍
Thank you for taking the time to do this video. It was very helpful
Thank you very much! If you have anymore questions feel free to ask
I'm still not 100% certain on the science of these things.. but this is BY FAR the best explanation of the differences I've come across and I highly appreciate you brother.
Well I really appreciate your comment. Its very rewarding to see
Some good info here, but some misinformation aswell...
Most self etch primers do not need to be primed over top. You can top coat most self etch primers after they flash off. I use RM self etch everyday in my paint booth. It is used over burn throughs in paint or primer, prior to painting.
Also you do not have to use sealer over most primers. You can paint over sanded urethane primer. Sealer is used to create a uniform surface when panels are spot primed or when a certain colour needs a ground coat.
I believe the only exceptions are when you prime with a polyester primer, then it needs to be sealed with primer sealer or urethane primer applied over the polyester.
The other times we use sealer is when painting bare plastic bumpers and other parts. But the sealer must contain adhesion promoters.
Hi Eddie I applied a coat of self etching primer over my chassis. Can I apply a second coat of the same self etching primer the next day or will the acid affect the previous coating?
Hey, so the acid in this case would not be the problem. The problem is that with self etch primer, your recoat window is within minutes. After 24hrs it is cured and will no longer chemically bond with the next coats so it will need to be scuffed with atleast some red scotch Brite scuff pads to get a mechanical bond for your next coats.
I sand blasted my Model A. Then sprayed it with epoxy. It took me a while to get the body work done. I sanded everything with 120 after then sprayed with another coat of epoxy. Then spayed with high build primer. I’m now sanding that high build primer with 320 now.
Should I spray with epoxy once more or should I use reducer in high build primer 4:1:2 and spray it as a sealer before base coating?
Or have I gone about the whole thing the wrong way. I’m a damn good mechanic but this body work and paint stuff takes some serious skill and patience. My wife says I’m too much of a perfectionist but after putting this much work into something, I want it to look good and last a long time afterwords.
Oh and all the primer I sprayed using Harbor Freight throw away spray guns. (Didn’t throw them away, just cleaned them well after each use) just an hour ago I ordered a devilblss spray gun. It cost me a good chunk but want that base coat and clear to lay down perfectly. Any advise on the tip I need to use for base coat and clear? Sorry for writing a novel but I like your way of explaining things and value any advise you can give. Thank you for everything!
I am so sorry that i over looked your "novel" of a comment lol. It has been several months now since and i'm sure this question was answered by now but just know that you went about your project the right way. epoxy, then did your body work, then more epoxy to seal your bare metal . then you sprayed your high build primer and sanded it. At this point if you did NOT sand through to bare metal anywhere, you are safe to spray your base coat and clear coat over all of that. Moral of the story is, you dont want to spray base coat over bare metal, if any is showing, you spray the spot of bare metal with epoxy and spray base coat directly over that. Hope i wasnt too late and if i was just know you should have a very long lasting finish. again, apologies on my response time..
And this what makes PPG DP90 so popular in the industry , it’s literally 2 products in one deposing on how you mix it , as dtm or as a sealer , just buy the additive to make it sealer and done .
Used many many gallons dp 40 in the 90's an 2000's.
Thanks Eddie! Excellent explanation of nuanced choices & technology. Maybe the VHT would lay down better if it’s warmed up in a hot water bath.
Yeah, it's pretty hard to beat a good quality Epoxy 👍
Can you use epoxy vth over etching primer
I personally wouldnt risk doing that. When it comes to these 2, you are only supposed to choose one or the other.
Great presentation. I was wondering how to approach my 1972 Ford Gran Torino Sport diff and this answered all of my questions. Best breakdown I have seen. Good job.
Really appreciate the comment and if you need any further help feel free to ask me any questions. I do my best to respond
Most people that look for information on how to prime and paint, will be more confused than informed by this video. You could have just told people what to use. Step one - step two - step three! Finished! Watching this video, was a total waste of time.
I enjoyed your video. Subscribed! I have a couple questions. I had my car glass blasted. I plan to epoxy primer and in some areas go direct with por15 (wheel wells). I had to store the car in a pourus garage in the Midwest. I applied Eastwood fast etch to slow the flash rust and every cloth I used linted on the rough surface like mad. I will remove the fast etch with prepared. What is my best option for cleaning off the lint? Scuff pads even seem to leave stuff on the surface. Also after I clean the surface would you recommend I prime before por15. Thank you very much for your time and advice
I appreciate the subscription! I dont have many videos out but thats only because I run a full time shop so feel free to ask any questions you may have. As for the lint have a designated brush that is ONLY used for dusting lint off. When you first purchase the brush, clean it with alcohol very good and once it dries store it in a zip lock bag. Later when you are done blasting and wiping down with the rags, use that brush ONLY to brush off the lint from your now CLEAN surface and also use compressed air to help aid the brush to removing the lint. After that. With extremely low pressure (drag it along if possible) use a tack cloth to pick up any loose lint that may have landed again on the surface from blowing it off prior to painting. As per the POR15 I prefer not to use it anymore. I have had a bad experience where the surface was prepped good and cleaned and it flaked off. Priming first is also not a good idea for POR15 because It is actually designed to bite into the metal and it won't have that bond if there is a barrier like a primer beneath that. The flaking is just my personal experience. I have done it one other time and it is very tough when it does bite in. I just prefer not to use it. On that one I would ask for a second opinion because in a sense after that experience I dont exactly trust it anymore.
bare metal , deoxidine , etch prime ( with catalyst ) 2k high build primer
what a great video let me ask you a specific question. If i strip a hood to bare metal, is it safe to use specifically SEM etch primer (aerosol), scuff with red scotchbrite, then spray over it with Hi Tech 1k primer/sealer? You say "surfacer or high build." Hi Tech 1k is "low build" on tds. Is it still sufficient to use over etch primer? Thanks
Hey thank you very much for your comment! By doing the SELF ETCH you take care of treating the bare metal. After that you should use a 2k filler primer or surfacer and do your body work on too of that. I would save the sealer for spraying prior to applying your paint if you have indeed already bought the sealer. But if you haven't yet, I personally wouldn't use the sealer unless you are doing it for color coverage purposes to lighten or darken your surface before applying your color.
This may sound like a stupid wuestion but how to i mix a epoxy primer into a sealer speedokote says you can use it as a sealer, but i cant find a mix ratio for it..
@@TheseBygones not a silly question at all. Just thin it down with urethane reducer to where it's thinner and lays down like a base coat basically. So if the epoxy you are using is mixed 4:1 then I would do. 4 parts epoxy, 1 part hardner and 1 part urethane and then spray a little to see if it is thinned down enough to where it sprays smooth through either your 1.2, 1.3 or 1.4 tip which im assuming is what your paint gun will have. If you have anymore questions feel free to ask, no such thing as a bad question here my friend. We are all here to help eachother out.
Thank you so much for the help!
So if I have a mix of patched panels on my cab and spots of old primer would I be able to better to just take the pieces one by one into a local shop to save money? I can’t pay for a 30k paint job right now.
@@jgelien21 you're welcome 🙏 but I'm not sure I understood the question...can you explain it again? I will do my best to answer your question
Eddie I am an older man with little to no body work experience. I have an old 67 C10 that someone painted purple over the nice original medium blue color inside and out everywhere. I am sanding down areas and exposing bondo filled holes for side mirror mounting etc. I am exposing metal in places and want to continue to remove this purple paint. This will take time and will expose more metal. What do you suggest I do or use when I expose these areas to protect the metal as I slowly continue to work on this truck? I like the video and the information and look forward to the feedback.
First off thank you for your feedback! We'll there are 2 things you can do if working in small increments. You can get yourself the epoxy primer that you need to mix and let site for 20 minutes before applying which Is the best option and simply clean and spray it on the bare metal. I understand this can be a hassle so another option is avaialable that is also good to do. Get yourself aerosol can self etching primer and when u are done exposing bare metal, clean it with wax and grease remover and then give it 2 coats of self etching primer so it can stay protected. This is the faster option.
u must test brtunox! It works as primer and rust inhibitor. But its wery expensive. But it has its place. It the best to repair bare metal undersides where there is rust. It will kill rust in pours... will work as primer and sealer!
Oh very interesting, I haven't tested it before.
Thanks so much for the good info. Can you tell me what is the best spray can product I can use on bare metal to prevent rust before using body filler on top of it?
On spray can you can use the Self etching primer (green in color). But all can ones pretty much need to be sanded before applying anything over top of it.
Do you sand epoxy primer before filler?
yes, you will need to 80 grit the surface including the surrounding perimeter of where the body filler will be becuase as you apply your filler you need to apply filler a little bit past your repair area to allow you to blend the repair. so if you have a 1 inch wide dent, you will need to apply filler 2 inches wide. and once its all sanded and levelled out your repair will look like its 1 inch and half wide. Generally speaking.
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations I'm struggling to strip down to bare metal working on 71 Skylark painted 5 times and the 6th coat was bed liner !!! Yeah what fun that was ! Got two patch panels to install and the car is almost stripped. But I got rust on the rooftop tried to sand it out not sure what to do?
@@biggene1711 aircraft paint remover would have helped you a lot...lol
As for the rust on the roof just depends how deep the rust is but you need to get rid of all of it. Sand blasting may be required if its too deep.
Does that mean that fading (on epoxy primer) will be a degradation of the layer and it needs sanded and re-applied down the road vs a scuff and topcoat?
I personally recommend scuffing again and epoxying again just to ensure that the UV hasnt damaged it too much to the point where it has started to lose its rust prevention properties.
What about Isopon rust inhibiting zinc primer on bare metal?
I have not tested that before unfortunately
Thanks for the feedback Eddie I'm currently restoring my 55 handyman and my paint supplier guy said use all epoxy on it I'm on my 8th coat of epoxy I put two coats on bare metal block sandwich 180 do all my body work
That is awesome!! Keep it up! Once you have covered the all the bare metal with epoxy and have successfully done your body work without cutting through back to bare metal, you can safely just use a 2k urethane primer over top of your body work after that. The use of epoxy won't be necessary after that. The main thing is just making sure no bare metal ever shows that is not covered by epoxy
So you cant use self etch for 2k? You neeeed surfacer? Is 2k primer as good as that acid etch?
All that 2k means is that the product is a 2 part system (primer and primer hardner/catalyst). when it comes to choosing your base primer that will go directly over your bare metal, you need to choose one or the other between the self etch and the epoxy. its one or the other. Right after Applying either self etch or epoxy, you can go ahead and apply the 2k primer high build or primer surfacer 15-20 minutes which is enough flash time for the etch primer or epoxy primer to dry off and is ready to accept the other primers ontop of it. The self etch and epoxy is what gives your metal the protection it needs against corrosion. the 2k primer surfacers are to level out your body work and so long as when you are doing your body work, you dont sand all the way down to the metal, you dont need to reapply self etch or epoxy, but if you do end up sanding down to bare metal, that spot will need to be sprayed again with self etch or epoxy to give it the protection again.
No one uses sealer in Europe, all primers are direct to metal here too and paint goes straight onto the high build primer .
How does the paint hold up using direct to metal primer? Does it last many years?
I'm getting a frame sandblasted so is 2k epoxy primer in rattle can the way to go .
2k means you have both the product and a hardner. If you buy rattle can epoxy primers they are gonna be about $30 a can. You're better off using self etching primer in rattle can which is $10 a can on average.
Great job with explaining. I plan on using muriatic acid to get rid of my rust. What do you recommend? I plan on painting the interior with an epoxy primer and then paint. But holding off on the exterior for about 6-8 months. What should I use??
best to use epoxy if your going to leave it for a while. if your going to paint it right after and need to sand it with surfacer. there are DTM urethane primers. Just make sure the urethane is DTM and High build. There are not very many of them need to read those data sheets.
How can a paint that comes out of a can be considered "epoxy" without an activator?
This id what thwy refer to as "1k epoxy" meaning no activator/catalyst is used.
What about just Rustoleum Automotive Primer over bare metal that is clean and dry rust free with a 80 grit scuff?
Regular spray can stuff is no good. But if you did the brown rusty metal primer that is sold in quarts at the home goods stores like home depot, those work good. Oil based rustoleum works awesome over metal but only if you plan to use rustoleum products over that primer. Oil based ofcourse, not aerosol can stuff.
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations Says ok over clean metal on the can, I prepped the bare metal with Ospho, seems like the repairs I did are solid, with only some initial shrinking over four or five days depending on ambient temperature I usually sand after 3-4days. Plan is to sand 400 wet after all minor repairs are done then seal the entire car before paint with epoxy sealer. The Black Automotive Primer they sell is like $7.00 a can if you buy in bulk, and works like a guide coat because you can see your highs and low spots during sanding with 180 open cut or other finer grits. Believe their black spray can primer has some solvents in it as it attacked previous repair work that appears to have been done with lacquer based primers there was minor wrinkling where I had sanded through the top coat into repair work. Only draw back is the amount of cans I’ve used about 10 cans on 6 panels, convince wise it’s ok don’t need to get any spray equipment out to start your work, and I have a neighbor that seems to take notice of everything I do on the upper part of the driveway, thankfully I have room to work where she cannot see me working on my cars in the back behind a fence. Still have three more body panels to go, including a air dam that has damage. I’ve use RustOleum oil based paint on primed metal, and bare metal as you say, and had really good results on suspension components… Thanks for your insight now need to find someone that will let me use their spray booth for couple days …
very informative. i have a hood taken to bare metal, i planned to do filler work to bare metal, then epoxy over the bodywork then polyester prime over the epoxy. do you think that would be ok?
Thank you very much! And it sure would be.
God bless you for all your useful information about priming. Many beginers get confused what chose and when. Many thanks for your experience and explanations
You're very welcome 🙏
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations many thanks
What particular degreaser do you recommend after sanding before applying epoxy primer? Also, when sanding the rust off the metal, do you recommend finishing it off with a fine high grit sand paper to get it ultra smooth or it’s not necessary? Thanks!
I recommend picking up some wax and grease REMOVER at any auto parts store. And when you get all the rust off with 36,40,60 or even 80 grit. I recommend either leaving it with 80 scratches or you can do 120, or up to 180. I wouldnt go any finer than that because it's best if you leave the scratches there for the epoxy to bond to
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations This is great info, thank you! Lastly, if I have spot surface rusting all over the vehicle, should I sand the entire vehicle (even the non-rusted sections) down to bare metal or just do the rusted areas only? The car is a 1971 and has one layer of original paint on it so if I only sand the rusted areas, I'm not sure how to prep the good painted areas.
@@EEZYEEEE personally if you have the time I would start fresh and sand it all to bare metal and on the same day make sure you apply epoxy primer so it doesn't flash rust over night. But if you choose to just sand rusty areas clean and lets say for example you sanded the bare metal with 80 grit and you have good paint right next to it, you will need to sand that paint with 180 so that when you apply epoxy primer over the bare metal, all the overspray of primer that lands on the paint will mechanically bond to it with those 180 scratches. The important thing to remember here is that if primer lands on paint that is shiny and not dull, the primer will not stick.
Great video and info…. Would it be a good idea to cover a whole flatbed with epoxy primer prior to painting it with a bed liner paint such as Herculiner or Rhino liner?? Thanks!!!
Strongly recommend. A good primer is needed since the liners are generally porous
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations Thank you very much for your response 💪🏼🙏💯
@@romualdorodriguezjr.9562 you are very welcome 🙏 best of luck on your projects
I'm currently restoring my 2004 GT. Thank you for the valuable information!!!
Youre very welcome. It sure is a topic that is often not talked about on the interwebs for some reason.
There's really never a reason to use self-etching primer. If you are in a production shop, you should just use a DTM surfacer and you're done.
Decided to treat my 82 sierra has some surface rust on the bed I just sanded certain spots to bare metal other spots that weren’t as bad just sanded enough. Sprayed some sandable primer on the whole bed. Bed was mostly decent just scruffed it all up since it had cracks here and there and sprayed it all out with the sandable primer. Would this be ready for paint or do I have to put something on top of the sandable primer? Also is using sandable primer in that application okay?
well for starters the cracks need to be sanded down all the way to eliminate the chances of the cracks running. What I mean is if the cracks are not completely sanded down to where it is no longer present, the crack will continue to crack the new primer and paint that you apply over top of it. If the sandable primer has already been applied, i would recommend spraying a sealer prior to applying your paint top coat. if a sealer is not used, moisture can find its way down in. its a good rule of thumb to always use an epoxy primer as a base for all of your primers. in your case you already applied the sandable primer so you can spray epoxy primer or primer sealer and then paint. if body work needs to be one, do the body work first completely and then right before you spray your paint, spray a coat of epoxy or sealer and then spray paint directly top of it.
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations thanks for replying so quickly, yes cracks will be sanded down. I just sprayed one coat of sandable primer more or less to spot all the imperfections and gotcha.
@@josevaldes6748 no problem at all. If you have any further questions, feel free to ask. I try to always respond to everyone.
Why did you flip the video into mirror. Checking to see if we are paying attention.
Mirror? Its just my phones front camera. It does that on its own.
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations your right. I never noticed that before. You can flip it in edit if you want.
So if I am redoing the roof of a car that is covered in surface rust and I do the metal scrub and apply Ospho Rust converter. Should I do a 2x epoxy primer or self etch primer and the surface primer before starting the color base?
That is correct, choose either self etch or 2k epoxy primer then after that apply your primer surfacer. After that, you sand your primer surfacer and spray your color
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations Thanks for the info
@@redcorsair14 you're welcome 🙏 if you have any further questions feel free to comment again. I'll do my best to always respond
@@redcorsair14 if you can, pull the headliner to see if there is rust from inside the roof... I'm I a similar situation with some roof rust and I'm going to at least peak under the roof to see if the job is bigger then I thought... its a summer project, and I'm waiting for better weather
Would the epoxy primer work well restoring plastic mud guards then followed with the Satin Black fusion?
It would yes but if you are wanting to do body work to fill in scratches you will need a high build primer for that because epoxy is not meant to fill in voids.
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations Thank you Sir! My main concern has been adhesion to the plastic.
@@nopriors oh well for that I would recommend using bulldog adhesion promoter. That is specifically formulated for plastic bumpers and other plastic panels
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations Thank you I'll find it !
I’ve been searching RUclips for weeks, trying to research about primers, and everything I’ve been wanting to know, is mostly in your video! Thank you! I wish you would do one on aluminum now,
LOL
@@danstoops8501 well I really appreciate that lol. And what would you like to know about aluminum?
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations
Well, I have sanded an aluminum boat all the way down to bare. I had planned on using TotalBoat ulimi paint, that doesn’t require any primer. But, I don’t like any of the available colors, so then I thought I would go clear down to bare aluminum, then use a 2 part epoxy primer made just for boats, but then I read something about that primer only accepting a certain type of paint. I just want to “back yard” paint the thing and have it look decent. Not to much orange peel, and maybe a semi gloss?
I was thinking I would roll and tip it, but now, huh? 😩
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations
Does epoxy primer require a special paint over it, with a special applicator?
@@danstoops8501 generally, the primer you use will tell you what type of chemical base it is and will help you find what is compatible to spray over it. But rustoleum believe it or not has good stuff. Not talking about the spray can stuff. That stuff is not really all that great but the oil based cans that need to be thinned with acetone is great stuff and have great corrosion resistance
@@danstoops8501pe
I’m a bit confused.
I have 67 Chevelle. Let’s say I blast the body down to bare metal but I still need to do bodywork. Everyone keeps repeating “you can’t sand epoxy primer” so why would you spray bare metal with epoxy primer knowing you need to do bodywork but can’t sand it?
I think there’s always some confusion on that.
So what’s the solution to a bare steel body freshly blasted that you want to protect while you’re spending a year doing body work like patch panels and fillers etc?
Yes that is always a confusing topic. But let me clarify a little better. The reason it is said that you cant sand epoxy primer is because it cloggs up the paper very quickly. So the practice in my shop and other high quality build shops is i spray the car completely with epoxy primer (Black) and then after it flashes (15 mins) I top coat it with Gray Urethane primer. Now you have all of the body completely sealed and left with a good surface to do body work over. You can now 80 grit this surface of Urethane primer and begin your body work process. Once your body work is complete and you end up with bare metal burn throughs during block sanding, you will then repeat the process of spraying the bare metal areas with a layer of epoxy and then urethane primer over top of it again. Be sure ofcourse that the area to be primed is sanded so that the primer sticks. top coats will not bond to unsanded primers. Always be sure to sand before adding layers of primer, paint, or clear coats.
good job...thx✌
@@eldigitom9680 you're very welcome 🙏
What brand/type of epoxy primer would you recommend for bare metal on a roof of a truck ?
Aslong as it is a 2k epoxy primer meaning it has a hardener/catalyst, it should work very well for you. Essential products are good. But there are soooo many products out there that you can use. But the most important like I said is for it to be a 2k, NOT a 1k meaning it dries without a hardener.
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations would you recommend Eastwood epoxy primer
@@alanc.142 if you get the one that comes with an activator, I would assume it would be a good product. They have a good line of products out. I just personally haven't used their epoxy primer. I usually just go to my local PPG auto paint supply store and get my products from there.
I was thinking you self etching, phosphoric acid with zinc, and then use the DTM
Thanks a million, I am working on my Avenger and needed a little guidance and you provide that and more
Im a newbie and my trouble was paint swelling. I used self etch primer and it would "desert" around putty edges no matter what i did. After i sanded it, applied more, sanded, applyied more and tried to spray paint - i got real nasty swelling of paint. Maybe sealer is actually for that reason? I ended up with 2k epoxy primer and it seems to have helped.
Yea self etch will swell it or lift it at the edges so the epoxy primer and 2k primer can help with this
Then epoxy primer its the way to go?? On rusted cleaned bare metal panel?
What primer is best to apply over sanded down old paint ?
You can use a urethane high build or primer surfacer over that because under that original paint you have the factory self etched sheet metal that already has the protection so no need to seal the steel again.
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations thanks !
I'm starting my next project 1936 coupe you answered my questions thanks but I don't want to spend alot of money on primer what's what's low budget but good epoxy primer for a DYI
I understand. Well if you get industrial epoxy primer like what is used on planes or 18 wheelers, that is generally the cheapest and good quality
Thx for the info! Nice to know difference. Coming from the mechanical side of the industry. Never ready knew the what to use for what. Just used whatever was available at the time. LOL 1. Question: is self etching good for aluminum? That’s what we use at work on aluminum wheels on the inside bead to help stop corrosion. What are thoughts on that… Thanks again
Man I am so sorry for just seeing this but yes there are self etching primers designed to work with aluminum. Should say on the back side of the product or on the technical data sheets for the product
Is there a clear primer i can use if i want the color of the metal to come thru?
Unfortunately no just clear coat...
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations unfortunately that's what I thought too. Thank you for your response
@@tizben i mean another thing you can do is strip it all down and then coat it with linseed oil and that should keep it from rusting.
Hi there - I have a rusted washing machine lid (with bits of metal coming off), which I will treat with rust converter, and a wire brush and possibly a sander to get all the rust out. I was thinking maybe I could use auto bondo filler to repair the rusted lid & sand down.
I am confused on what to use & the order of steps, if you can help please. 🤣
Is it remove rust > convert > epoxy primer > bondo > sand > base coat > clear coat?
I'm leaning towards using epoxy primer (not etch primer), since the lid needs to be water resistant & since I need to use bondo?
If the epoxy primer is white, and I don't care about the finish, can I use the epoxy > bondo > epoxy > clear?
Also, what's primer surfacer & epoxy enamel? Are either required in my situation?
Thank you!!! 🤙
ok so since its for a washer, i have an even more inexpensive way of repairing that which im sure considering how late im responding, you probably already have a new washing machine lol but what you could have done is remove rust as much as possible, go to home depot, get you some rusty metal primer rustoleum that comes in a quart. you would need a little cheap spray gun to do this. Thin that primer down with acetone, then after spraying that maroon looking primer on, get you some oil based rustoleum paint in gloss white and paint it with that. that rustoleum holds up very good to rust. NOT THE SPRAY CANS though. those are not good.
I have some eastwood epoxy primer that I want to use. Will that be ok for any manufacturers paint? I'm planning on a good quality single stage. Thanks.
That would work good. And you're welcome 🙏
So I have some rust i sanded down area used bondo filler, sprayed self etching then rustolum sandals primer. It started to bubble. Thought it was from not letting sandable primer dry between coats.
Self etching primer does not like being applied over body filler. You have to do extremely thin layers.
Can you paint epoxy primer over PPG Durathane DTM? I'm scared to do it if it won't stick or some weird chemical reaction. Killer video! I learned so much!
You can definately spray epoxy primer over any product without running the risk if reaction. Epoxy can be used as a sealer as well prior to painting. And thanks a lot for your positive feedback! Means a lot!
I am painting boat trailer fenders that are rusty. I am using paint striper to remove the existing paint and then sand and clean. Next I was going to use rust converter because they are really rusty then seal with epoxy primer then paint with top coat! Is that correct procedure? Also can you recommend good spray paint can topcoat???
That is the correct procedure however read carefully the instructions on the rust converter as to the preparation before you apply the epoxy primer. Since the epoxy primer adds the protection, you can use any spray can of your choice. There are several reviews as to which has the best rust prevention protection and then the best finishes. Strictly preference at that point. I had always used Krylon all in one satin black but lately I've noticed that the shine on the finish has changed. The cans are now spraying a finish with more shine than before. Not sure why.
When is the Time use filler primer?
After spraying your epoxy primer or self etching primer, THEN you can apply either a urethane primer, high build, primer surfacer, or filler primer.
We are building a river table and found a painted, industrial, base that we have sanded down to bare metal. We have used an angle grinder to get nice swirls and would like to just clear coat it. Can we just use a 2K epoxy and get waterproof and rust protections? What is your recommendation to finish it to keep it from rusting?
Clear coat helps against corrosion when clearing a bare metal finish however you NEED to remove all of the rust because if now it will come back. 2k epoxy has Excellent corrosion resistance. The best option to use atop bare metal
Thank you!! I am in the process of restoring my 1947 John Deere B tractor and your video was very helpful. Impressed enough to SUBSCRIBE.
Oh thank you very much, feel free to ask any further questions you may have. Happy to help
Where are you located?
Out of McAllen, Texas area
Thank you. You Def answered my questions. I have a 03' Police interceptor and you know what the paint does on them. So I am going to sand it to the metal and get to it. Thanx again brother.
Nice! I hope your project turned out great! Those cars are very reliable!
Man I appreciate you so much I was getting ready to do a big mistake
Really appreciate your comment, thank you 🙏
Yeah, it’s a little longer video, but it actually explains the differences between the primers. Seen many videos on RUclips that claim to but dont
Thank you for your words and I sure hope I was able to help you in understanding the products and their uses.
Thanks, for a very informative video. You answered a lot of my questions.
Happy Thanksgiving
Thank you very much! If you have any further questions, feel free to ask. And happy Thanksgiving!
Ive been needing all this info in one place for so long! thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and helping people with their projects
Youre very welcome! Feel free to ask any questions you may have in the future with your projects.
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations I'm currently restoring the t-tops weather stripping and retainer plates on my 88 Cutlass supreme GT. Had a little rust around the front header panel up under one of the weather strip retainers so I cut it out and had my buddy weld in another weather strip retainer and cleaned up the metal everywhere. I wanted to go with self etching primer and I'm just learning from a couple of other sources and your video that I have to use a urethane primer over the top of self etching primer and that I can't just paint over the self etching primer and body work. And that I have to do the body work under the self etching and primer on the metal first. I was about to go about it the wrong way because I know nothing about body work and this is my first car. I'm glad that I know to do body work first, then self etching primer, then some kind of primer sealer high build primer or urethane primer, as the third step. Then base coat and clear coat after. I know I have to wet sand my clear coat and maybe even my base coat if I get some orange peel. Are there any other steps that I'm missing that you could help me out with? I don't have a huge area that I'm painting, but again this is my first time and I'm just trying to make sure I have all the right information and this is done right. The car and I are the same age and this is the car that I came home from the hospital in. So it has nostalgia and kind of has a soft place in my heart. I want to get it done right the first time and I feel like you're the guy to ask. Thank you for your quick reply and your willingness to help.
@@lestatdelioncourt7513 i feel bad now that I took a while to reply this time around. So let me recap. The preferred way to go about it is a bit more costly but its the best method. So clean the metal completely of rust, spray it with either self etching primer OR epoxy primer. Then clean out your spray gun and and by the time you clean it out, and mix up urethane primer, the self etching primer or epoxy primer will be ready to be top coated with the urethane primer of your choice either it be smooth or high build. Once this is done you can 80 grit sand the area that needs body filler and try to only sand the top layer of primer and not to get down to your epoxy primer. Its a good idea to get different colors because this will definitely serve as a guide to know how far you have sanded. I go with black epoxy primer and gray urethane primer. Once i have completed my body filler work, if I burn through the black epoxy primer and am showing metal in any areas, i reapply epoxy primer over the bare metal and then urethane over the top of the epoxy. This is the absolute best way to completely seal and protect your metal underneath to have the longest lasting rust free finish. Again if I wasnt clear in any way, feel free to ask more questions. I dont mind. Just bear with me on the response time.
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations Im I am using self etching primer because of the rust that was there I'm not ever wanting to come back. Is this the best that's what I was told to use and don't want to switch over to epoxy primer if self etching primer is better for rust. I'm also using spray cans and not a spray gun. The area that I'm spraying wouldn't make any sense for me to buy a spray gun because I'm doing a 6 inch by 40 inch area and maybe 1 inch of that is actually my roof all the rest of it is stuff that's going to be covered by t-top plates and weather strip retainers up under my glass. LOL that's the only reason why I'm even comfortable with doing this job is because most of it is going to be covered. I was going to use Rust-Oleum green self etching primer and then rust-oleums sealer primer and gray or high build primer. I'm also curious about the process that you were talking about bc almost everything I've read on the internet and what other people are telling me is that Bondo will not stick as well two primer and especially will not stick to self etching primer so that if I want to use self etching primer the Bondo and body work should be done first and then self etching primer and filler primer after. I was asking you was my way of going about it that I had talked about a correct way to go about it because I would rather you self etching primer and if I use it do I have to do the Bondo first. I'm not using epoxy primer not unless there's some reason or some better coverage for rust if self-etching primer works better for rust long term, I would rather use that. As for the base coat and clear coat, that I've already bought (also in a spray can because this area is so small) I will see what it is and get your opinions on it tomorrow when I can go to the shop and type in the correct labels. I know that the clear coat is by DupliColor and the base coat is a black by Rust-Oleum. I've also heard that black on a car is one of the hardest colors to match and I've been worried about that as well. Just really need to know your opinion about the Bondo process coming first because of the self etching primer if I'm going to be able to match blacks at all, if I'm screwing up with going with the cheap black base coat and the cheap clear coat that I bought in a can, and if you think self itching primer is a better more safe and long-term protection and way to go rather than epoxy primer because if I'm doing epoxy primer I can basically spray paint it anyway I want but I just want it to be more protected from rust. Sorry this is so long thank you so much I'm sorry that I didn't include that I had spray cans and all this other stuff the first time.
@@lestatdelioncourt7513 oh okay i understand now. Okay so lets clesr up the confusion. Body filler DOES stick to primer, and i also DOES stick to paint. If not all the collision businesses are doing it all wrong lol. There is always an area where the bodyfiller overlaps over to the painted surface when doing body work because yoj try to blend it smooth together. Yes you can spray the self etching SPRAY CAN over the body work if you like however you need to do light coats. If you lay it on too heavy it will make a chemical reaction with the body filler. And then you may apply high build primer over top of the self etch once its dry (15 mins after). All your coats need to have about 10-15 minutes dry time between coats. Once you have done body work and both layers of primer now you move on to your final block sand with 400 grit sand paper and smooth out all the body work imperfections. If you burn through to steel, you will need to reapply self etch on the exposed metal then high build primer again. Once you are 400 sanded and all is ready for paint, you spray your sealer, let that flash off for 10 minutes, then spray your black 2-3coats, then clear coat. If it is not a metallic black you should have a problem. There are generally 2 common blocks. One has a brownish color to it and the other a blueish tint to it. You just need to figure out which one you have just by looking at it in the sun or at night with a flashlight. The clear coat will need a lot of coats if you plam to wet sand and buff. If you dont apply enough coats, your clear will be very thin and will burn off eithin a year more than likely. I would apply 4 heavy coats so you can atleast end up with 3
👁️👄👁️👍
29 min video that could be cut down to 2 min if the same information wasn't repeated over and over.
Your username suits you well lol 😆
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations ikr 😆 Seriously though, good information, just if you have to explain it to someone that throughly they probably have no business trying to do that kina work, and if you are trying to sell it as a service you are better off saying either you want it done right or done cheap.
@@ahole5407 yes sir, I agree with you completely. Just trying to help our fellow hobbyists fulfill their dreams.
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations I had a dream of becoming rich one day... but then I found a hobby 😆
@@ahole5407 and now you're broke like me lol
Excellent video very very helpful in explaining the difference in primers answered my questions. THANKS
Thank you very much! Glad it helped
What’s your opinion with body filler on epoxy primer? Or bare to metal then cover with epoxy primer?
There are 2 ways you can do this. The more inexpensive way is sandblast or sand down the whole car, spray the complete car with epoxy primer to seal it so it does not Flash rust overnight. The following day when you are ready to start your body work you can sand the the epoxy primer In the area that you are going to work Down to metal. Apply your body filler and make sure that body filler is always making contact with a sanded surface.. It is OK if the body filler makes contact with sanded epoxy primer. Once you are done doing your body work spray epoxy primer over your body work to seal it off from from any moisture. Another way would be, Sand blast the car, spray your epoxy primer, then spray urethane Primer surfacer Or high build primer on top of the epoxy doing roughly 7-10 minutes between coats on your epoxy then your primer surfacer. Now the following day you can sand with 80 grit your primer surfacer and you can apply body filler directly over that and you will have the best possible seal.
Thanks you answered some real questions that I had about primers. I am just starting to learn about painting.
If you have anymore questions feel free to ask me. I'll do my best to answer them
What's your take on just using epoxy only for undercarriages?
Hmm...ive never used it as a stand alone product but I've used VHT epoxy black paint on its own and has held up great on parts as a stand alone product.
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations vht is ok. I prefer por15 topcoat as it is dtm as well but both are not chemical resistant. I'm going to try black 2k epoxy primer on my next project.
@@dm9103 yea both are not. Ive had bad experiences with por15 flaking on me and rust coming back with vengeance.
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations I referred to por15 topcoat not the por15 regular. Its a different product. Por15 is on but I didn't like how little pigment in had and it was way too glossy for any chassis work IMO. Their topcoat is great tho as it is dtm, dried extremely hard but as mentioned before is not resistant to chemicals. POR15 tho was very hard and durable for me even painted on untreated raw metal. I just wish there was one product that was durable, sealed, and had the right gloss for chassis work. Anything that is out there either requires primer, or some other atribute that I dont like. Im trying Spraymax epoxy 2k in the aerosol right now and will share my experience. Probably not UV stable product and likely too flat appearance but we shall see.
@@dm9103 in my opinion, rustoleum OIL BASED out of the gallon or quart cans in satin finish is the best long lasting and factory looking finish other than powder coating. The fact that its oil based is what helps against rust
Now, others have said that if you spray another primer over self etching primer it makes the self etching primer soften up and lift
if the self etching primer is not cured and dry, yes you can get reactions. but as long as the self etch is dry it will not cause that.
What a good explain to understand all the primers purpose thank you for the explanation to understand much more better.
Youre very welcome 🙏 I tried my best
Awesome info... i am doing some rust repair on my car roof... ill need to sandblast just a bit in a few spots, i may need to put a small piece of fiberglass in a dime sized hole, then a bit of bondo. So my process would be:
Blast , clean, self etch , primer sealer/surfacer, fiberglass, a bit of bondo or putty, sanding in between, primer, base coat, clear coat?
mostly correct except dont use straight fiberglass, use a reinforced filler that is basically body filler mixed with fiberglass. But yes Blast, clean, self etch, primer surfacer, then sand with 80 grit to scratch up the primer EVERYWHERE that the reinforced filler and bondo will touch and then apply the fillers. you dont want to apply filler to an unsanded surface because it can delaminate.
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations thanks so much for the feedback... helping out a newbie Diyer
@@mikep509 oh its no problem at all, happy to help! Comment whenever you like and I'll respond.
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations... its too expensive to get any kind of bodywork/ repair done on my 2009 corolla... these bodyshop guys around here are quoting me $2500 to $3500 for what I'm trying to do... the car is worth like $6000 max LOL... I know the price of raw materials is up but geeze
@@mikep509 yea unfortunately the cost of paint is very expensive now. For example, im painting my personal truck soon and in primers, paint, and clear im going to spend roughly $1500 in materials alone. Thats not including my labor so the materials are definately up there. Just to give you an idea, right now I wont paint a bumper for any less than $650..
100% support your statement about the all in one primer paint. I used to use that to cover rusted spots on frame and suspension of my semi. Even w when cleaning all the rust, rust came through, which is exactly why I'm here learning about primer
Yes unfortunately those All in ones are not true...
So doing my 1st paint job car has a lot of spots where it burned through since it was previously ssnded by last owner. I did 320 and 400 now ready for primer. So am i correct here i can spray it with eastwoods epoxy primer (whole car in this instance instead of spots since its got so many lows. Then use my fillers and glazes as needed. Then spray eastwoods contour primer.. then do my block sanding to get my lows and highs taken care of (400grit) then paint my single stage red then clear.
Read your primer for the correct bite. Personally I would want 180 grit.
I would sand it with 180 to get the maximum bite as possible for my primer. Generally you do 400-600 when you're ready to shoot paint.
Thanks for the video. What primer do u recommend for direct metal
I would go with an epoxy primer first then a urethane high over top of that before starting body work
I never used a self etch primer I just paint my own vehicles myself but haven't got a good paint job when painted my truck before but will probably paint my truck again between April-June messed up last time sanding epoxy primer last year but shouldn't of did it got orange peel on truck used a regular clear but this year will apply a glamour clear but still gonna apply a metallic base on my truck but painting my car too from a black that is now to midnight purple. Will be using a DTM epoxy primer though. Never used a glamour clear before just a regular clear urethane clear but using a urethane base.
Well epoxy primer is always DTM. Personally I would strip the existing paint off and start fresh. But thats just me. I like the peace of mind. But wish you the best on your paint job, sounds like its gonna be nice!
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations never stripped a whole vehicle to bare metal but when I do have the time it be the weekend and it would take too long if stripping the paint to bare metal and painting for me. I do have time off work more could take in summer but stripping paint to bare metal would be a long process and was gonna paint two vehicles of mine by myself. Gonna do the car first though is in garage now thinking about doing it outside in backyard sanding it first with 600 grit it has rust on it so will use my paint stripper to get rid of the rust off then use epoxy primer after I clean the bare metal with a wax and grease remover then use Bondo body filler on spots have to fill in then sand the spots flat and then apply a urethane primer. Then apply primer sealer black have a gallon of it then use this metallic urethane basecoat got Starfire I have used before then apply a regular clear last on the car but my truck wanna sand it with 220 grit flat around the whole truck a couple spots are chipped on truck from the last time used a rotary polisher though but after applying base will not apply too wet like have did in past because have gotten too much orange peel then apply a glamour clear last I have medium hardner plus reducer and fast hardner and reducer but never used fast reducer and activator or slow reducer and activator either. I only been trying to paint a couple of years almost but not every month out of the year and not winter plus don't have the right heater to paint in winter in garage.
Nicely Done!
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Ive been saying for a while that epoxy primer is the way to go... Put some Hot Rod Black or Pitch Black KBS Max Seal over it (UV protection) for a top coat and it will last a lifetime!!!! You can mix the both of them to get a Semi Gloss or Satin Black...
My question is though what would you recommend on the high heat surfaces? Like Engine blocks, brake rotor hats and calipers? Can the Epoxy still be alright? And then go with a Poly/Urethane top coat? Or will only an Acrylic Enamel or Ceramic have to Work? (I do know that the Ceramic paint for a base is the best on headers/exhaust manifolds and those Enamel/Ceramic combos that they use fir clear coats)
I do know that some of the guys swear by brushing on the Rust-Oleum Rusty Metal Primer on Engine blocks, but have to heat up the metal with a blowtorch or something with high heat first to get any moisture out of the metal block (especially an iron block because of it's porous nature, another words prep work will determine the quality and is key!!! So after getting moisture out, wipe entire block down with acetone, then a final wipe with Isopropyl Alcohol, denatured Alcohol, or a surface prep degreaser...
Like what you did there on the explanations of the Acid in self etching primers...
epoxy is a very good base for sure but as for the question about high heat surfaces, unfortunately epoxy will not hold up to much heat. Engine blocks dont only get hot themselves but all of the enclosed additional heat in the engine bay makes for an even hotter surface. urethane paints will also flake if its on a vehicle that gets driven a lot. i've painted engine blocks and truth be told, all paint eventually either burns or flakes off in chunks eventually after going through a lot of heat cycles. All of these show cars you see generally dont get driven hardly enough which is why they are able to maintian the paint on there so long. Ceramic coatings are generally the strongest finishes for things like headers. As for using the rusty metal primer on the engine block, I can't say I have ever tried that. i'm not exactly sure how well that rustoleum would hold up to high heat. But it sure holds up to rust very good. NOT the aerosal spray cans, but the quarts or gallons that you mix with acetone. That is good stuff.
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations Uncle Tony's Garage and Dons Manufactory did a nice segment on that Rust-Oleum Rusty Metal Primer in the Qt/Gallon cans... Tony Swears by it on the Engine block... Again, the key is the prep work to get out EVERY bit of moisture in the cold block, so it must be either blow torched or sit in a baking oven for an hour first...
@@tnasituning8173 yea the rustoleum quarts oil based paints are awesome and hold up way better than automotive paint!
Question for ya- so after spraying a bare metal car in epoxy, I do no sanding and then spray 2k urethane primer over the epoxy and sand THAT to prefection for my top coat clear coat?
That is exactly right. You can do 2 coats of epoxy primer, then RIGHT AFTER the epoxy has about 10 minutes of flash time, you can directly spray the urethane primer or high build primer over it. You can either do your body work under this step, or after this step.. if you do it after this step, you will need to sand your urethane primer with 80 grit in the areas where you will be applying your body filler.
@@EddiesCustomsandRestorations Thanks much!
@@designsinorbit no problem at all, feel free to ask if you have any further questions
It's me again. So I got my bare metal car sprayed in epoxy primer. I wasn't planning to do any sanding before moving on to urethane primer, but the epoxy has some grit to it, and some dirt as well. Would you recommend a quick knock down sand before urethane? If so, what grit would you choose? Thank you so much!!!
@@designsinorbit hey so glad to hear you're moving forward on your project. So the good news is since this is under the urethane high build, the finish isnt important because the high build primer surfacer will fill all of that. However, if you have a lot of grit that appears to be like dry specs of product then you're going to want to knock that down super quickly with any sand paper from 180-400 depending completely on how severe the grit is but sand VERY LIGHT. Almost no pressure at all just glide over the epoxy with the sand paper just to knock any loose grit down because that gritty dry epoxy can also act like loose dirt on the panel, which would cause adhesion problems. But yes just knock the loose down very lightly and then clean again with wax and grease remover.
Very helpful,. I have recently transferred to working as a sandblaster/ painter and this clip was very clear on what can be a difficult chemistry process.
your feedback is much appreciated thank you!
Is he actually telling the people in the restoration business how to use primer?
I'm in the restoration business and speaking to those who are wanting to GET INTO to the restoration business. A person already in it is not going to be watching my video. And if they are then yes the video is for them too because clearly they are in need of a recap 🤣 lol. It happens.
Thanku ,very informative and accurate...God Bless
Thank you for your kind words