EPOXY vs ETCH PRIMER - WHICH ONE DO YOU NEED ??
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- Опубликовано: 9 июн 2024
- #bogdustforbreakfast #epoxyprimer #etchprimer #harleydavidson
Which primer do you need for your project?
in this video i give you a guide on which one to use
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Thanks for sharing your knowledge, this is exactly the learning / refresh I need to get up to speed on for my latest JDM project. Subscribed. cheers!
cheers mate loads more great vids coming , youve actually subscribed at a great time next video will be about sanding a car for paint and doing a respray with candy and flakes
@@BogDustForBreakfast That's great. Thanks!
Great info and tips....💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾
Cheers mate
If you use epoxy, dp90lf anyway, plan on putting filler over every spot of primed surface. Ends up looking like undercoating. Gonna have to sand it all off and start over seems to be the best option.
I’m doing a xh Ute bare metal and I’ve found Finishing the bonnet and roof in 120 after removing all the old base paint and clear off from 40 grit to 80 to 120 like a polishing the steel and using a die grinder on any pits or stone chip rust works well then using GP thinner to clean up the bare metal takes a while as the rags go black with sanding residue once cleaned I’m using protec para glaze commercial line 2k epoxy primer works really good as a base primer bonnet has a fibreglass hornet scoop with a hole underneath it sicko flex on and bolted to the bonnet what I found was we’re the urethane met the steel on the bonnet the epoxy was slightly frying it up on the edges so I had to slowly build it up to two to three coats to bridge it for filler finishing later I think a lot of diy blokes don’t clean the steel up enough before primer coats are added from what I’m seeing with mates
Just subbed, great info!
Cheers mate welcome! Got a similar video coming up about grits of paper to sand primer and painting candy
Great learning channel, thanks bud
Glad to hear it!
Ok, im not sure if in Australia prime materials are different than in the states but etch primer is for bear metal and not to be used over filler or any other material on the panel. Then after the etch primer dries and etch to the metal then you add the epoxy 2k over it and "no sanding" of the etch primer before applying epoxy. Now DTM Direct To Metal primer can be applied to "metals" without etch primer being added beforehand. DTM is designed with "etching characteristics" into it for it to be applied over bear metals and give a finish for prepping "by wetsand or dry sand before paint. " Etch primer is not a primer to be paint over, it was not designed to be paint over. It was designed to etch to bear metals to provide protection to keep out moisture that causes rust. Now the DTM is like a combenation of "etching primer and epoxy 2k." No need to use etching if you are using DTM. But if you are using epoxy only then etching needs to be applied to the bear metal first; but if its all filler on the panel "no etching is needed" only where the metal is present around the filler after final leveling of the filler. (No worries if a bit gets on the edge of the filler when you are applying it on bear metal next to filler).
pretty much what ive covered in this video and in this one ruclips.net/video/Q8FRYKBivTY/видео.htmlsi=Qfh6fLBtRpZqbuxH
thanks for sharing, when using debeer Epoxy Primer Grey 2pack on bare metal, can car be left out in rain ? (Melbourne)
appreciate all of the content you put up
thanks again
i wouldnt recommend leaving it out in the rain .
Thanks for sharing that very well explained I have a ford focus mk3 front bumper titanium x its a new one from ford whitch i am buying its already primed but I need to sand the bonnet with 320 grit will I have to use a wet bed to get the match
It’s a good idea to use a primer the same Color over the edge of the bonnet so the Color edge to edge looks the same yes!
@@BogDustForBreakfast so primer it the bumper and the bonnet and tack rag and fade out blend then base coat paint on then clear coat paint
@@ANDY-we7mr no need to prime the whole bonnet if there is no repairs or delamination etc . Just spray your sealer primer over the edge of the bonnet where the bumper meets . So when you blend your Color over the bonnet it all looks the same . I made a blending Color video 2 videos ago
Well I learnt things that others had showed me and now I know why they failed , always know that etch prime absorbs water but was told it was right primer for the job, etch primer on steel should never be wet rubed before base paint , this can cause paint rise and bubbles and moisture expands
A restorer I know, working mostly on cars from 1930-1960, uses etch primer on the steel and then an epoxy over it. He's been doing it for years without problems. His attitude was that the etching primer gives better adhesion and the epoxy makes sure no moisture is going to get in when paint gets chipped. I believe he also overcoats the epoxy with a urethane primer, after scuffing up the epoxy first.
Most of the cars he does end up in in museums or private collections, occasionally taken to a show somewhere. Maybe that makes a difference in regards to his choices.
This primer is some bloody good stuff I got a can 3 months ago, it builds realy good and did not get a cut through when I was bloking it out😊, does DNA do this primer in other colours so I don't have to use alot of black basecoat to get full coverage
DNA has a white primer which can be tinted up to 10% I think from memory there is 4 or 5 Color’s and black being one of them
@Bog Dust For Breakfast thanks bud, I will speak to my paint supplier in malaga next time I'm there to see if he can order me some in, he only had the grey on hand when I got the primer surfacer
Cheers as always for the tips. 2 questions. Epoxy or Etch for suspension components/diffs etc. When stripping then epoxying in sections, is it an issue getting overspray over previously epoxied areas knowing that the whole thing will be getting blocked?
nothing to worry about mate providing the overspray gets sanded off your sweet
have you done any test on alloy 1st card thow it in some water ,second card acid etch ,3rd card epoxy ,4th card acid etch with epoxy on it and see how they deteriorate maybe add some salt to speed up the corrosion
I personally haven’t mate . Although it would be an idea to do some tests to show for a video . Good idea 👍
Out of curiosity what is your opinion on the Wattyl Super Etch Epoxy primer? A local panel beater (in Australia) pointed me to it for respraying a 96 GMC truck cab, which would be mild steel. Is this a 'best of both worlds' product or something else?
Honestly I’m not familiar with that product . In my opinion your better off using a product which is called epoxy or etch . Not one with both names . Wattyl is more known for their House paint products so I would be cautious using their automotive products. With that said so is Dulux . I used delux for about 12 months before the shop changed to PPG . Dulux was great stuff . . I’m a firm believer of if it works then use it . I just can’t say that it’s going to be good to use as I’ve never used it . I’m pretty fussy with what I use and rarely use something I’ve never used before for the fear of it not working or doing what it’s meant to do .
I also feel when a product says it’s a etch and epoxy that it’s not very good at one single purpose. That’s just a opinion not a fact
@Bog Dust For Breakfast thanks for the honest answer. I had a similar thought process to you, but I have yet to find any bad words said about the product, and the technical information seems solid.
I'm not chasing a show winning paint job, but I want quality protection for what will be a daily driven work vehicle.
Good video, I'll be sure to watch more.
I purchased a Capri rolling shell 12 months ago. It had been sand blasted back to bare metal, rust removed and then primed. I assume it was an epoxy primer. How do I tell? Secondly if it was an epoxy primer how long can it go without a base coat? I’m concerned I may have to strip back down to metal.
chances are they epoxied it . i highly doubt they rust treated it . sand blasters mainly just use cheap epoxies to keep cost down . but its mainly only done so the next person inline can sand it back, rust treat and use epoxy of their choice then start the repairs . if the shell was blasted it will defiantly need some form of repairs before a HS primer or polyurethane filler primer.
Hey mate, great video and helpful information as its my first time painting over metal. I had to strip surface rust in some places and im left with some bare metal spots in my engine bay. What do you think of epotec 408 epoxy?
2-3 coats of Epotec 408
1-2 coats of wow
base and clear
Or if you have a better process would be helpful!
Cheers mate
I’ve personally never used the epotec but from what I read online a lot of people use it .It’s hard to comment without seeing pictures . But if there is lots of bare metal areas I’d be using deoxidine on the steel and putting in epoxy then sanding and continuing with your process .
@@BogDustForBreakfastso u treat it first and then primer over it
@@Brandon_obs_ls correct mate
@@BogDustForBreakfast what do you use to clean ur Metal
@@Brandon_obs_ls i use CAM DE OX IT heres a video of it ruclips.net/video/97sAGP7Ca_w/видео.html
Tenho um VW GOL removido a pintura ate o aço qual melhor inicio epoxy ou each primer ????
use a magnet , if it sticks to the car then its steel. use epoxy for steel
So can you actually paint over the epoxy once it has dried? IE if you were painting a bare steel chassis or something in multiple sessions?
Let's say you 80 grit the bare steel. Prepare it. Epoxy it. Leave it to dry for say a few weeks while you're working on other bits of the car. Can you then sand that epoxy and put paint over it with base and clear, or paint it even with no sanding first? Or, do you HAVE to put a urethane primer over it first? This is where I fall over on my understanding, because of when people use epoxy as SEALER, and paint straight over it during its flash time without sanding it (something I imagine you could NOT do if it has actually completely dried)?
You can definitely do exactly as you said . You can sand that epoxy and paint straight over it . It always pays to read the TDS for the primer your using though . But no you don’t need to urethane prime it first . If it’s straight with no imperfections/dents etc then sure, sand and paint .
And what about "sealer"? When do yo use that? Just to prevent a rust farm after blasting, but only if you're going to store the car? (without painting it)
Sealer is mainly used once a car has had all repairs and hs primer sprayed and is ready to spray Color . If you have minor rub throughs in the primer or if you have primed areas in small areas over a body and your painting the whole car . Using a sealer will make the whole car one Color which will save on the amount of Color used on the car and also seal any rubs throughs allowing your basecoat to gain coverage faster
@@BogDustForBreakfast So sealer always goes on top of primer? Never before primer?
@@enermaxstephens1051 depends on the product . Are you thinking of a surfacer or a sealer they are slightly different . I know people in the US call some products a sealer when they can be different here in Australia . Generally a sealer is applied over the primer and used before applying Color
If you use epoxy on stainless or aluminium, is it simply going to fail or is it good enough but just not the best option?
its just not the best option. each primer has chemical properties which help bond to the metal as well which is also why choosing the correct primer is important
What about fiberglass, which primer ?
Normal HS high build primer .
Is it OK to use body filler on bare metal and then cover with epoxy primer?
It’s not ideal or the correct way to do things . I guess it really depends on if the steel is rust treated first and if the epoxy is applied the same day and in low humidity. But honestly if you had the option of doing it either way definitely putting filler over epoxy is the better option
Doesnt the top coats keep the moisture from getting into the primer?
It also does yes .
A lot of epoxya you can just spray your primer right over it after it flashes off
Same for body filler
Depending on how you mix it yes .
Is it ok to put the epoxy over existing etch primer
Or do you need to take it back to bare metal
Love your explanations and videos
depending on how long the metal has had etch on it . if its only etch on the steel its worth sanding off and epoxy priming
The etch would be relatively new on repairs and rust replacement parts
Thanks for your input
@@offcutz-dq5zk I’d definitely be epoxy priming it before you start your filler repairs and priming it . Etch simply isn’t good enough
Thank you for your advice
It is the first time I am restoring a car and it will be a huge learning curve
Appreciate your help
@@offcutz-dq5zk that’s no worries mate . Always happy to answer any questions
Hey mate I am removing the sealer out of the rain gutter of my car, I’ve taken it back to bare metal and have treated a few surface rust areas, I was told to use body pro p961 1k etch primer straight on the bare metal, after watching your video I’m now a bit worried wether I should strip that off and put epoxy on?
Thanks
Yeah use epoxy then right before paint seam seal it again 👌
Can I epoxy the bare metal then seam seal after letting it sit over night? And then prime the seam sealer?
@@jakehdj8099 no your want to epoxy then prime then seam seal then paint it
If you seam seal before primer the seam sealer will likely crack when you sand the primer . Then you’ll be back at square one again
@@BogDustForBreakfast okay I’ve got some epoxy, expoxy the bare metal then seam seal then primer?
Sorry for the confusion..
Yep. THe only thing left to understand, what is "exopy self etch" and if it's epoxy (non pores etc) or it's self etch
A lot of those cross named products are a 1k porous product . Good for a temporary coat but not suitable long term
I’ve heard that DNA paints are really good
they are mate . really simple to use too
Those 2 are like the old car salesman days putting the special wax on your car all you need to do is prep the surface to be primered correctly and follow the directions for mixing and spraying don't waiste your money
Good video just note that your hands are even more porous then that Bondo so please use nitrile gloves when you are using wax and grease remover or any other chemicals for that matter.. most of the old boys have died too early from working with solvent barehanded👍✌🇨🇦
thanks mate
Yes and no. Epoxy doesn't etch into metal, etch primer does, hence the name. If you are sanding or stripping to bare metal, do your first layer in etch primer and then a layer of epoxy. Even when you are doing rust repairs for windscreens the 3m shop always gives you etch primer and 2K paint.
Etching is also a word used to reference a product getting adhesion which was what I was referring to ✌️
Epoxy can not go over etch primers! Most paint systems are totally against this.
@@JR-ho5qm i agree , in some cases depending on the brand of paint used ,and im refering to PPG our rep told us that if repairs have bare metal showing around filler repairs "smash shop, not resto" that a thin dust coat of etch over steel then prime with a HS primer . this helps with adhesion . the issue is there is so many products out there and some people only use some of them and get good results . some do it different and still get good results . its one of those things if it works for you then great! other ways also work so dont knock them lol
@@JR-ho5qm but i believe and as i said in my previous comment, if it works then don't change , i believe that etch shouldn't be used over large areas if your epoxy priming . at the same time a dust coat of etch before epoxy isn't a bad idea but its also a waste of a product as well. etch before HS priming is a good idea as etch is suitable for adhesion to steel. where HS primer is not suitable . theres so many primers out there and so many dam ways of doing something lol
@@BogDustForBreakfast I have been painting for 20 years and in my area you never put epoxy over etch they are not compatible. Honestly I learned that very early on in my career and it’s still holds true for the products I use.
Looks like a lot of work went into that helmet to have to just re-sand. That sucks!!
Yes and no , the helmet gets sanded and repainted every few weeks for different videos . Was no biggy
@@BogDustForBreakfast - Wholey crap!! Well, that was some nice work, even with the wrinkling!!
bit different for sure@@mistersniffer6838
@@BogDustForBreakfast - I personally would not wear the helmet, but the way the art work was inlayed, and the hologram look in the pink was cool as hell! Sure wish you were in my area, could use a painter like you.
If your going to use a primer or if I'm not......? Yea that's the information I came to your video to find out, but instead of telling me what I should do you are asking me what I am going to do. If I knew that I would not have viewed this video. You do understand that as a do it yourselfer, I am looking for information that I don't already have? So useless.
The video title is the different between etch and epoxy . You clicked the video with out reading that . This one might be better
ruclips.net/video/Q8FRYKBivTY/видео.htmlsi=cg0U9C_U_c49NmB1
epoxy everything etch is rubbish
etch is great , flashes off quick , cheaper to etch than epoxy . shelf life is longer , 1.2 1.3mm setups are suitable . great for rub throughs down to steel . lots of positives
@@BogDustForBreakfast I hear what your saying, I was taught epoxy everything. the epoxy is use PPG Deltron DP616 can be used as wet on wet over rub throughs etc once dp616 has been put on over rub throughs I put either DP614 or DP627 depending on the shade of the primer for top coat coverage, that way everything is 2Pac and there's no chance of fry ups like you said in your video using 1k primer over freshly painted parts you had fry ups if you use 2pac threw the whole process I find I don't have any fry ups or redos. just my 2cents what works for me and my jobs are warrantable.
@@coastaboi747 I only used 1k as I was in a rush . Normally a few dust coats first to get build before wet coats works well but not this time . Either one works regarding etch or epoxy tho . Thankfully I don’t work in a smash shop anymore those days are over .
I use proform self etching primer on plastic everyone says you can't do that I do and I did the plastic mirrors on my personal daily drive five years ago and still look as good as the day I did them I use self etching on alot of stuff 🤙 I do also use epoxy on certain stuff aswell I just purposely do self etching primer on plastic just to piss of the idiot's that say you can't do that 🤙
Providing your using a plastic primer before your etch I don’t see it being a problem
@@BogDustForBreakfast no plastic primer self etching directly onto the plastic 😎