Dang it ! I had questions, but by the end of the video you answered all of them lol ! I’m so glad I found your channel because I haven’t found another that’s so descriptive. The info you give like sanding grit , primer/paint properties, when and when not to do this or that etc. is unprecedented. Thanks for taking time to make these vids because there are lots of us who really benefit from it. I’m currently tearing down a 69 Roadrunner and have been so stressed about the body work part up until I found your channel. I’m totally confident now with all the info you’ve been giving. Thanks brother !
Polyester primers basically have no shrinkage because there is no reducer to it, only MEKP liquid hardener. Urethane primers usually have shrinkage because of the liquid hardener and reducer added to spray it. 30 years of doing high end paint jobs and only use epoxy ( 48+) hrs dry time and polyester primer all the way to finished sanded in 4-600 grit. Use the epoxy in the end as a sealer and that combination of those two products has produced many killer jobs. The only flaw about polyester primer is that it offers zero flexibility and chips extremely easy on door/hood edges..etc. so you need to be careful how much is applied in certain areas. Your video is definitely better than most that i have viewed on here.
I agree partially the only thing I disagree with is the shrinkage. If you do a shrink test on a bare panel you will see that all of the products have a level of shrinkage. Some are more than others weigh a 1‘ x 1‘ panel on a scale after spraying it with polyester only and then give it a few days and weigh it again then wait a few weeks and weigh it again. He will notice by doing this test the amount of shrinkage that no matter what every product has if it’s losing weight, it is shrinking if it stops losing weight, it is done shrinking.
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS Never thought of looking at the weight aspect of it? If you sand it open and it still has a strong smell then the solvent is still in there. I guess the key here is that the type of work that we do on these old cars there should be no hurry to rush the products. I find that most people that have issues when painting is because they are in a hurry and don't let things dry properly. I give the products plenty of time to gas out. People also will sand and polish a vehicle way too soon because it seems to polish easier, well that is because it is still soft and then it dies back and you have to do it all over again. Be patient people. I have done the shrink test with clear before by leaving around an inch of leftover clear in the bottom of the plastic mixing cup and setting it aside for a few weeks, then look to see how much the puck has shrunk away from the sides. Pretty amazing actually and this test can be applied to primer also. Thanks for responding back and keep up the good work.
I've watched hundreds of videos, read till my eyes want to fall out about this topic and this video is the only one I should have ever watched. I've been totally confused till now. You are awesome!!
He articulates everything your mind could possibly want to know regarding this subject. Fantastic- all info on big subject in one place. AWESOME WORK - thank you from New Zealand 🇳🇿
Thank you very much. This is the best explanation of how each primer is used that I have found to date. I now understand what is going on with the 3 primers and why certain things need to be done to achieve proper adhesion. Because of this, I have subscribed to your channel. Thanks again.
Id like to make a few comments on the Polyester primer. First off l would never suggest spraying polyester over epoxy wet on wet. Because Polyester cures so quickly and so hard, it wont give the epoxy enough time to set up on the substrate, and often leads to delimitation in the future; lve actually had this happen to me. Epoxy should sit for a minimum of 72 hours, preferably baked several times, and then fully scuffed with 150-180 before applying polyester. Secondly in reference to the shrinkage (l was in the pool!) Polyester really doesn’t have any. Perhaps it just comes down to product difference, l used to use slick sand now l use House of Kolor polyester. Because Polyester, or at least the HoK that l use, isn’t reduced and doesn’t have a lot of solvents, the shrinkage is essentially 0 and what you see is what you get when you spray it. Those are just my opinions from experience but ld like to hear what others thing as well
Well said. I've tried a few polyesters. Some Evercoat and PPG VP2100. By comparison, I liked the 2100. PPG was having trouble getting some ingredients a while back so it was offline. That's when I found the 2050 and stuck with it. I have used DP90LV reduced as a sealer for bare metal before polyester and had no issues with decent flash time and using just enough epoxy to cover. I was told by an Evercoat rep that the new generation of their polyesters are direct to metal if using the correct catalyst. Wouldn't recommend the Optex poly. It's a gimmick. Good concept but not enough contrast to call a guide coat. Sands like concrete. "I was in the pool". I caught that! "Like a frightened turtle". 😆
In regards to shrinkage all materials have a certain level of shrinkage the footage that was shown does not show it as good as I could. However, there is a good amount of shrinkage that happens with the ever coat that we sprayed in this video however, the VP 2050 has very little shrinkage and because it’s not just a straight epoxy it is a highbuild, it actually cures in three days And is not continuing to lose weight when measured on a scale. With that being said, you can topcoat the primer that we used with a poly, but I agree with your comment if you are using a traditional epoxy. thank you for your comment.
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS If either of your ever want to use a good polyester, l highly recommend the House of Kolor. Mixes with a hardener, no reducer, and sprays unbelievably smooth for a polyester. Like l said l used to use the evercoat slick sand and l had to reduce that by about 10-15% because it sprayed so chunky. This HoK poly sprays and sands even smoother than a reduced Evercoat product
@@looper451 Thanks for the tip. I'll keep that in mind if I have any supply issues with the 2050 again. Do you happen to have a ballpark price on that?
As a dealer tech, you can't afford mistakes, but as a one income family 40+ years ago, you bought used cars, fixed them and became transportation for everything. Even then, I would sand to bare metal for repair & a color change sometimes. I was shocked to sand a rock chip and find the "fingers of rust" spiderweb out 6", 8" or more. This scared me! We was going on under the paint to allow that? Not knowing it was fixed before using a standard primer, a standard filler, a standard sealer regardless of paint, single stage or base coat / clear. As chemistry has changed so much in 4 decades, now retired with time to research products, almost became more confusing to me. Only to find your channel and get explanations and straight answers from someone other than a guy behind the counter. We get flash rust and serious rust in the upper Midwest states over winter as rock chips are not cleaned, treated and ignored. It is maintenance. No different the gear oil in the final drive. It gets attention once loud, obnoxious and headed for disaster. Then, it may get its first gear lube since new, but has 148 miles on it. Travis, thanks again for a great bucket load of information. Epoxy for my vehicle! Marketing drive the product and "DTM" is showing up everywhere and it scares me. It is not needed if you remove the old finish, sand and clean, spray. It implies that an acid, weak, strong, phosphoric or other is required. DTM to me, logically says skipping a step and costing more. I don't have a "Vibrance VB2050" budget, but I do have time. Not like a 34 year old guy, but one who will do each step, wait for it to shrink, do something else and revisit those panels later. Am I wrong? DK, Omaha. Great info.
Hi Dean! Another epic novel! 😁 Just kidding. Yeah, I hear you on the elements in the midwest. It's a killer. They don't call it the rust belt for nothing. One difference also is the difference in metals that are used from 40+ years ago to today. Some vehicles years ago you could find galvanized metal in certain areas (Mustang rockers) and usually held up pretty well. Now, all the sheet metal has zinc coatings so you dont see that spider rust as much as you used to.Then there is HHS, UHSS, alloys with boron,laminated steel,aluminum and so on. So you really need to know where and what it is. High tech stuff. Take care.
You are 100% correct there’s so many ways in this industry that you can slice anyone project but you were on the right path. We’re happy to help and thanks for watching.
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS Helping others succeed in their project using best practices is what we do. You teach, I learn, pay it forward. That is a true blessing to allow a total stranger to do it and be happy. Time is short. Travis, you pick some great topics for your videos, nice! I will say those that use product and let it cure, then destroy sample A, B, C etc get huge hits and likes. It is like project farms, except for automotive body. Did you ever see MrFireman164 do his Ospho to body filler torture test. I haven't checked but 1.4M views and thousands & thousands of likes & comments. Stay healthy Travis! I hate sinus issues, plus the sales / tech for my electrodes & controller, they gave up and quit. Bummer! DK, Omaha
First time spraying vp 2050 today. Wow! This stuff sprays beautifully. 1.8 tip and it goes on like butter. Love the idea of using this all the way through the job.
Great video. I use VP2050 all day and love it. Definitely a slow sanding product, but it’s physically tough as nails and I trust it with my life. I also use Tamcos 53XX series, best high build urethane in the business, period. I also love Tamcos 770 series, another hi build epoxy.
You sir an an encyclopedia of information... the best for us DIYers.... my summer project is attacking rust on my 2009 corrolla, and keeping the thing going for another 5 years
Man I've been painting, stripping, restorating, and rebuilding for 44 years. If you would write the Painters-Filler bible I would buy it no matter the cost. I found out about flash times decades ago on my 71 Chevy truck. Painting the rebuilt control arms. I past the flash time with the second coat and it crackled. I spent twice the time removing all the paint then I spent on cleaning, priming and painting the parts. I wasn't too stupid then but now I realize now just how much I didn't know then. Thank you for a educational video.
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS am going to restore my old 73 beetle and I live overseas sadly ppl who work in the restoration and body work have no knowledge about products and and the right steps cars get painted after few years all the problems start showing like rust and shrinking and cracks 😞😞 so I’ll be trying to do it by myself or teach someone who has experience in body work what to do and what to use if we have the products here crossing fingers
Hey man im sending love - just a few hours before i watched this video i had ordered my primer- and watching your video im gonna sleep better knowing i finally got it figured out ( i was sweating thinking you were going say dont ever use this product) keep making videos peace
Nice video. When I try to explain to people what epoxy I refer to it as sprayable glue that is water and (depending on the product), chemical resistant
This is BY FAR! HANDS DOWN! one of THEE BEST PRIMER TUTORIALS ON RUclips! VERY DETAILED, VERY INFORMATIVE! question though, once your body filler is all Worked out and you have sprayed a high build feather fill polyester primer, blocked that and primer sealed it... What is best primer to be allowed over the top of the sealer if you STILL have some imperfections? Use a putty/polyester feather fill to get any scratches/imperfections out? Or just go over it with a few coats of a Polyurethane Primer block and Seal prime again? (And yes I understand that you said to only apply filler/putty polyesters over Urethane or epoxy and NOT on Direct metal, so I get that, but if having to re-apply a high build primer or putty for filling/fixing Imperfections, can i just apply some more primer sealer to just those putty areas? Or should I first apply some Urethane Primer over the putty/ployester areas, resand then seal?) Or would it be better to just go with the VP2050 Epoxy Primer over my Primer Sealer since it is technically a Sealer itself, block that, then finish with a Polyurethane Primer and Primer sealer (Sealer layer used once again, 2wice now)? Fir last thing to do before laying down my base coat? As obviously a primer sealer should be the last and final layer before base coat
Thank you very much. If your body work is where you need it to be if you are using a polyester primer, you would keep applying polyester until your body work is done and then you would be sealing it up. You do not want to go back-and-forth with different kinds of primer. It might be OK but you’re just asking for problems. This is specifically why I only use VP 2050 I can use it when I start and when I am finished and when that is wet sanded with 600 grit. Then I can go over the car with a sealer and basecoat back to back wet on wet.
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS that makes sense to me... However though after having to re-apply more polyester primer (like the Evercoat featherfill or Clausen All-U-Need) wouldn't i want to go over that with Urethane Primer, do 1 last FINAL block, then use the primer Sealer? Or should these Polyester Featherfill/high build Primers be only applied OVER scratches instead of any Urethane Primers? It just seems that these Poly-Urethane Primers have alot less shrinkage then the Polyester products so I thought that maybe a high build Polyurethane would just play it safer then the High Build polyester feather fill stuff... I guess it would be also better on which decision at this step of the process to make, based on which of the 2 types of primers are easier and quicker to sand... Again I REALLY have thought long about your advice to only either Etch Prime, then Urethane Prime... or if using EPOXY PRIMER, apply EPOXY PRIMER, then apply POLYURETHANE Primer BEFORE DOING BODY WORK (FILLER, PUTTY, POLYESTER FEATHER FILL PRIMERS) SO THAT ANY OF THE POLYESTER BASED PRODUCTS ARE NOT ON BARE METAL (UNLESS THEY ARE SPECIFIED TO BE DTM)... So I guess what my question is, is that if I still had some small metal spots come through that weren't really high spots but lets say a high body line crease on a hood or top of a door panel, is it perfectly fine to go over that with some more DTM ONLY rated POLYESTER Primer? Or will I have to use the Self Etching Primer over these small bare metal areas??? And what about a PolyUrethane rated DTM Primer? Are those available? And if so Could I even use that still on top of body work before Primer Sealing? Or should that be Only applied on bare metal? But I i do get that if I were to use a DTM Polyurethane over the small metal areas poking through, then NOT to go back and use a Polyester Featherfill DTM Primer again... As this seems the multiple layers of Polyester products would get wavy waves from shrinkage on the multiple layers... I think answering this last FINAL Question will solve my dilemmas im having with the DTM rated stuff, When in doubt I would say that look on the Data Sheet to see if any of these DTM and DTM Polyester products have either typical shrinkage, very minimal, or virtually none! I feel Like we are not only learning bodywork skills, but a blend of that and mad scientist chemists 😆 since if you study and learn your chemical compounds, it should REALLY Help out on what, with, when, where to use in conjunction or next to another chemical compound make up of another product... Whether its the same brand or another Brand...
Working in a shop where we do a lot of overall paint on older vehicles, sometimes will strip bad paint to bare metal & using an etch primer to seal the metal will just use a sealer over the etch primer & then just repaint the entire vehicle, this usually works very good & have never had any problems
Great educational video! 20 yrs ago when I was a paint prepper, shop I worked in mainly used all Sherwin-Williams products including urethane primers. This was so long ago it was before water-based base coats. We used a light spray etch on all bare metals, and they preferred the body men to use filler directly on bare metal. Definitely a lot of products and procedures have changed since then. This channel has a lot of good helpful videos 👍
I only use epoxy/acrylic hybrids or HOK A and B. DTM for the win...usually good for fiberglass too. What I dont like about hybrids is the claim that it is used as a sealer too at a higher reduction. I prefer urethane sealers as they are more UV resistant than epoxies/hybrids. I also use paint stripper to remove old coatings. I prefer to sweep up the gunk rather than have dust all over my entire shop. Spray On!
I’ve used I think every kind of primer you can think of in the last 30 years. My hands down favorite today is valspar DTM. Fills good, sands good, good price, DTM, and can be used as a sealer.
Not having much luck with Instagram lol to old to figure it out. Do have a question I've been researching primers what would you recommend for fiberglass? Father fil g2 or vp 2050 or both? Thanks again for your knowledge!! If your ever in north Carolina holler at me
if you have the opportunity, put the car or pieces out in the sun, the suns uv rays are the best to make sure your primers are dry and won`t shrink later on
What a wealth of usable information. I’m going through your videos now. I have questions for my own project. Working on a 41 Ford coupe for my wife and I just had the engine rebuilt. I’m wanting to paint it with an acrylic enamel, which I already have. I want the aluminum heads, block and oil pan to be painted same color. Questions: 1. Would you clean and acid wash, please keep in mind the engine is assembled and I can’t get water or other stuff in it. 2. Would you use epoxy or urethane primer? I want to do wet on wet. Thank you for all your knowledge sharing.
Ok, so if I understand correctly. I start with bare metal, use wax and grease remover, then spray epoxy high-build sealer that can be sanded (the one you use). After it has dried for a week or so, the bodywork is then performed on top of that. My question is, during bodywork as I sand, if I start to see that I'm sanding through the sealer coat (like seeing pencil marks from a low area) I should stop and apply more coats of high-build sealer and let it cure for another week before continuing sanding/bodywork? Then, after all bodywork is complete, spray one last coat of sealer before the basecoat color goes down?
You are pretty spot on. You don’t have to reapply epoxy vp2050 until filler work is done. But if you are not happy after that you can re spot filler and 2050 as needed. Vp2050 is not a sealer. Actual sealer is different. You do that last before paint. We use Ecs sealer
There must be 10,,000 videos on block sanding & 99% of them are hacks & they're getting great reviews from people who don't know any better. I'm doing my best to get the word out about your channel. Cheers
Hi.....I'm a novice. If I'm doing a repair to bare metal....can I use an DTM epoxy primer up to the feathered edge of the repair???? I like the epoxy primer because of its hardness. I used it on mag wheels with corroded bead surfaces (after grinding and smoothing). Good presentation.....thanks!
Slicksand (polyester) seems like it's not porous at all, used it to seal up a composite thermostat I'm experimenting with - I know its not the intended use - but it's sealed up a few leaks of coolant at 90c for a few months now. It's not the polyester itself that is porous but the additives mixed into the resin so depends on product, after all, every fibreglass hull uses polyester resin. Cheers for the video.
Thank you. Yeah they all have a different make up of chemicals. This video was intended for people to just help them get a clear direction on where they need to start so it’s not overwhelming. Thanks for your comment.
What happens if you're working on a car and you're doing rust repairs so there's sections of the car in bare metal but the paint is decent and I don't want to bare metal the entire car. Do you epoxy only the exposed bare metal, filler work and then a rub down the car car for a high build primer? Great vid and thans for the tips 👌
Best teacher on the internet!! Thank you sir!! I’ve been using HOK KD3000 for my project currently. How do you feel it compares to VP 5050? Have you ever used it?
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS falls under the DTM epoxy hybrid. Can be a high build first then reduced to a surfacer, then sealer depending on the mix ratio. Thanks for your reply. Was just curious if you’d used it before. I’m trying to keep to 1 product line (house of kolor) or else I would have used vp2050. Your videos have helped me tremendously during my process. Thanks again!
6:28 thanks for talking about the TDS. Im so fucken dumb. I forgot to look at the TDS. Just sprayed my urethane primer at wrong psi. Came out all messed up. Now im going to back and spray with TDS guidelines.
It would be nice to see some tests on DTM using the All-U-Need. Seems I hear this alot: "high end shops are using it and Claussen claims it can be used as a DTM but we don't do it......."
I remember being a broke kid back in the late 90s and i wanted to paint my first car a 69 toyota Corona one solid color becuase it had all the doors and hood not matching lol and i went to my nearest paint shop and the guy wanted 500bux to paint the car any color, but like i said was broke kid and asked if i could get anything done with 100bux and paint guys actually said yes lol. He said he could shoot my car with some left over polyester black primer, but i had to mask off the car myself. Let me tell you that 100 dollar primer paint job got me compliments everywhere from the rat rod and gasser dudes. The black polyester primer fades into a color between gray and black like the "Two-Lane Blacktop" 55 Chevy 👍.
I still like my DP 90 over bare metal first, but after my bodyfiller I'm going to try Evercoat super build over it. Have always used NCP 271 for my final prime, but at over 800.00 a gallon I'll use the 2050 reduced.
The main reason I like vp2050 so much is that it’s one product instead of having to use several. Which results in better consistency and less failures. But whatever works👍🏻
Awsome info learned so much so far I have a question I epoxy primed 2 fenders 2 weeks ago now I would like to polyester them I have sanded them with 220,question is is the red scuff pads enough bite for poly also i do have pinholes in the epoxy should I glaze them or will the poly fill them or bridge them also is the 3.0 tip to much for poly
I personally do not trust the scratch from a red scotch pad. But yes, it will definitely cover your pinholes. You can always regulate the needle and flow if the three-point is too big.
there are DTM urethane primers....that are true DTM....and they have them that are high build. I have used a few that are almost the same as Polyester. super high build and still flexible. Unlike Polyester primers, many of the guys I know dont use polyester because they have cracking issues. Honestly I havent had that problem. and I like polyester. But I normally use DTM hight build Urethane primer for all purposes. You just need to READ THE DATA SHEETS.....I say it all the time on my channel too. Another good one is to use Epoxy and NON DTM high build like you do with polyester. Chameleon makes one like that. Great primer.
I mentioned dtm urethanes in this video. So far I get best results with vp2050 it seals and is thicker than any polyester on the market. One product is better than several. I’ll have to check out your channel 👌🏻
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS The PPG products are good but a pretty pricy. There are some other brands that work well and are a bit cheaper. PPG is a big name for large shops and has a good system and training. But there is nothing like many years of getting priced into learning other brands. It seems like so many brands are cheap for a while then once they get you then they raise the price. then your searching for another brand that does the same thing. I think your in socal so we have a whole other ball game of VOC....approved products.
@@Mikefngarage yes I’m in Ca. It sucks!!! Lol I’m actually a small 2k sq ft shop in my back yard. Here’s my thoughts on that…. I started my business in my 3 car garage many years ago using the dtm urethanes and the polys etc. You get what you pay for when it comes to ppg if you are doing quality work the cost of the product is the least of your problems. Stick with one paint system start to finish and learn the product as I’m sure you have. Whatever works for that shop and or job. This channel is dedicated to helping bring back the trade and get younger generations involved in knowing there’s good money to be made in Autobody.
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS yea.....I have been there with PPG many years ago. My fagorite is BASF...RM or Glasso. but too many $$$....I do the same teaching people to restore their own cars at home. Great products out there that way less expensive. Was a painter many years ago....You know they pay the same Flat rate hour today as they did 35 years ago? I just do it for fun now. Moved into real money Sign industy painting which we use PPG paint in that. Or Axzo Nobel....who makes sikkens. LIsten keep up the good work. connect with the younger crowd.
I've been using the VP 2015 for my 57 Chevy truck and it's amazing thank you for the video my only question is when you burn through do you go back with VP 2050 and touch that spot up or do you just use a urethane over the Bondo that you burned through
I always make sure I go back over it with 2050 before I go to a urethane sealer you need uniform coverage and if you just rely on the urethane over the areas that burned through it will shrink back and have a halo later on down the road guaranteed ask me how I know 🤣
Hey Travis, is the PPG CRE dtm high build epoxy a good substitute for VP 2050? VP 2050 is hard to get where I live right now. The paint store called PPG and they are waiting on raw material for the 2050 but they stock the CRE. The technical data sheets look very similar but CRE is the industrial version. Have you had any experience with the CRE?
You are talking two different questions. Etch is for bare metal if you are not using epoxy or a DTM. A sealer is done before paint. Does that answer it?
Great info! I am a newby, working on a 54 chevy car. My local paint shop recommended me using Roberlo DTM 4:2 Urethane primer. I like what you said about the VP2050 for the hardness. I guess using the Urethane primer was not a mistake but could the VP 2050 be used as a sealer on top of it? Thanks for such a wonderful explanation!
Really informative videos. Started out watching the ones from several different people but now just mainly watch yours. I'm restoring a 56 Belair and a nova ss at the moment, have 90% of my metal work done and it's time to start removing the heavy surface before priming. Just wondering if you or any of your followers have tried Picklex 20 rust converter, if it is worth the asking price. Don't have information on application as of yet but it is supposed to be compatible with the ppg 2050.
Wow this video was so helpful! I am in the process of shaving my engine bay. After watching this is seems like the VP2050 epoxy primer is the way to go... I am however worried about all the little nooks and crannies in an engine bay since I won't be able to DA sand a lot of those with 80 grit. I could definitely just use my hands and some 80 grit sandpaper in those spots but not sure if the pattern created by the DA sander is required for the epoxy to stick?
Great video!.......I got a fiberglass camper shell for free that was sanded (probably 80-120) all over exposing quite a bit of gel coat on the corners by the previous owner (sorry for the run-on).....do I need a sealer before a primer? Thanks!
I was told that it’s acceptable to scuff e-coat with 800 scotch-brite with no etch or epoxy primer and straight base coat. Is this incorrect? Great video BTW
Shrinkage is the reason most collision shops done use epoxy primer and only DTM urethane. THey do have TRUE dtm urethane primers. that are high build. Lots of products out there. Not all products are the same.
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS you talked as if urethane primers are not high build. honestly there are so many variations of this stuff there is no 1 way to do this. but yea an epoxy is a good base for some people. where I live they rarely ever use it in a restoration shop that is finishing a car in a short time. Some of the urethanes are really good at sealing as well. Nothing you said was wrong but there are a lot more variations out there that work well and last. It all depends on the weather of where you are places your storing the car while under restoration. I prefer putting filler on bare metal most of the time but over epoxy is just fine if your using a filler with adhesion promoter in it like USC AG47 now called grip filler I think 7000. It is better than any evercoat product I have used. much better than zgrip. easier sanding less pinholes. Cheaper than rage and near the same.
@@Mikefngarage finishing a car in a short time and restoration don’t belong in the same sentence. The benzene in the hardener of filler alone is what causes rust. Also I specifically stated all the primers discussed can be found in a high build and or dtm that’s enough said I don’t need to sit here and talk about every primer out there I’m trying not to confuse people. Get what works for you and that’s it.
Don't you think speed, out the door time, is the deciding factor most of the time for collision shop product choice? That and sticking with a single manufacturer for the warranty claims?
Could this be used on inner quarter panels where they connect to the inner tub? If i were to access through the trunk and spray as much in as I can? Maybe even with a small enough needle to apply it between the tub and quarter between the layers from the outside?
As long as it is approved over, bare Metal. The biggest take away from this video is making sure people take the time to look up the TDS sheet for each product and make sure that it fits their requirements. 👌🏻
The primer/epoxy debate… I miss DP40 and K36 . Silkens Ep and 3+1 from back in the day was really good stuff to..The best is spray a product and let it dry thoroughly before coating it with another product ..Wet on wet is not a good idea for restoration type work…
For most shops, yes. That’s more or less the Collision way of doing things in my opinion. However, I like the VP 2050 because it is one primer that basically does everything you need to do you spray it over bare metal scuffed that up with 80 grit do your bodywork. seal it back up with the exact same primer block that down and wet sand and the only other material you will need is sealer before paint in my opinion you’re using less different materials for less failures and it’s doing everything you need to do with a high quality
heres one for you, 84 Fiero weathered ive had to do lots of sanding to get the roughness out of the hood and roof .which is SMC, the fenders and bumpers i think are the same urethane now there is spidering on the fenders and bumpers should I use epoxy after sanding down past the paint and maybe use a polyester primer to build over the spidering?? not sure what to do here as everything is flexible . urethane primer?? for the whole car? . Thanks in advance . great videos
Thank you! Yep strip it down all the way and epoxy. You are on the right path. If it was me, I would use VP 2050 to do the whole thing start to finish and not use any other primer. I’m not just saying that for no reason that’s all we use and we have great results.
Question: is media blasting sufficient prep for adhesion before applying epoxy? If my car body is completely media blasted do I still need to prep it with 80 grit for proper epoxy adhesion?
Hey sylvertercustoms I have a quick question , what body filler do you recommend ? I seen you use upol lightweight and ever coat rage ultra . I’m currently in school and working on my project but can’t decide what body filler to purchase . Your opinion will save me a headache .
Great video! Also perfect timing. I am stripping my panels to bare metal. And once I was done, I am spraying Eastwood epoxy primer. I also have to do body work on it. So some thin set bondo. At this point would you spray 2k primer, sand, then spray sealer . Then base coat clear coat? Thanks
We only use one primer vp2050 but yes you definitely could do it that way. I try and limit how many different primers I use because of potential failures etc. consistency is always best but do whatever works within your project and budget
I used to use Urethane high build primer to do my final sandblocking. I heard it takes much longer than polyester to fully cure and can produce urethane wave down the line. I loved how great it sanded. I have since moved to polyester (evercoat slicksand) but noticed its much harder to sand and the prices of Polyester primer seem to have skyrocketed. Thinking of going back to Urethane for final blocking. Is it true that it takes weeks to months to final cure and no more shrinking?
Dtm isn't needed for my project since it is fiberglass. I don't like the sound of porous for obvious reasons. What would the best high build product to be to go over fiberglass? Thanks
Thank you. CRE is the industrial version of the same product VP 2050 you are correct when they had shortages with the resin‘s. We were using CRE and it worked amazing. and yes, if you are going over an existing paint job, you can do that with his primary as well.
I don’t even use urethane. I only use vp2050 until I get to my ECS sealer when I’m ready to paint. I like epoxy high build products. It streamlines the headaches and your more consistent with one product
Dang it ! I had questions, but by the end of the video you answered all of them lol ! I’m so glad I found your channel because I haven’t found another that’s so descriptive. The info you give like sanding grit , primer/paint properties, when and when not to do this or that etc. is unprecedented. Thanks for taking time to make these vids because there are lots of us who really benefit from it. I’m currently tearing down a 69 Roadrunner and have been so stressed about the body work part up until I found your channel. I’m totally confident now with all the info you’ve been giving. Thanks brother !
So very glad to hear!! We appreciate every one of these amazing comments. Thank you!!
A
Finally, a single place to learn many things at once. Thank you! Superb.
Thank you!!
This series is like a master class in auto refinishing..so many things explained well and questions answered. You deserve a million subscribers.
Thank you very much
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS Only he doesn't ask you to "join the VIP section" like others 👍
Polyester primers basically have no shrinkage because there is no reducer to it, only MEKP liquid hardener. Urethane primers usually have shrinkage because of the liquid hardener and reducer added to spray it. 30 years of doing high end paint jobs and only use epoxy ( 48+) hrs dry time and polyester primer all the way to finished sanded in 4-600 grit. Use the epoxy in the end as a sealer and that combination of those two products has produced many killer jobs. The only flaw about polyester primer is that it offers zero flexibility and chips
extremely easy on door/hood edges..etc. so you need to be careful how much is applied in certain areas. Your video is definitely better than most that i have viewed on here.
I agree partially the only thing I disagree with is the shrinkage. If you do a shrink test on a bare panel you will see that all of the products have a level of shrinkage. Some are more than others weigh a 1‘ x 1‘ panel on a scale after spraying it with polyester only and then give it a few days and weigh it again then wait a few weeks and weigh it again. He will notice by doing this test the amount of shrinkage that no matter what every product has if it’s losing weight, it is shrinking if it stops losing weight, it is done shrinking.
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS Never thought of looking at the weight aspect of it? If you sand it open and it still has a strong smell then the solvent is still in there. I guess the key here is that the type of work that we do
on these old cars there should be no hurry to rush the products. I find that most people that have issues when painting is because they are in a hurry and don't let things dry properly. I give the products plenty of time
to gas out. People also will sand and polish a vehicle way too soon because it seems to polish easier, well that is because it is still soft and then it dies back and you have to do it all over again. Be patient people. I have done the shrink test with clear before by leaving around an inch of leftover clear in the bottom of the plastic mixing cup and setting it aside for a few weeks, then look to see how much the puck has shrunk away from the sides. Pretty amazing actually and this test can be applied to primer also. Thanks for responding back and keep up the good work.
You are my hero. Finally found someone that actually explains.
Thank you. I try to make it clear and concise
I've watched hundreds of videos, read till my eyes want to fall out about this topic and this video is the only one I should have ever watched. I've been totally confused till now. You are awesome!!
Thank you very much!!
Another great video for the novice hotrodder ...... answered a lot of my questions with reliable information .... really like your content ....
You are very welcome !
A great explanation of these products & there uses, Pros & Cons. Thank you for using laymen terms & being clear & concise.
Rick
Thank you I tried to keep it simple.
He articulates everything your mind could possibly want to know regarding this subject. Fantastic- all info on big subject in one place. AWESOME WORK - thank you from New Zealand 🇳🇿
Thank you very much. This is the best explanation of how each primer is used that I have found to date. I now understand what is going on with the 3 primers and why certain things need to be done to achieve proper adhesion. Because of this, I have subscribed to your channel. Thanks again.
Thank you very much!
Id like to make a few comments on the Polyester primer. First off l would never suggest spraying polyester over epoxy wet on wet. Because Polyester cures so quickly and so hard, it wont give the epoxy enough time to set up on the substrate, and often leads to delimitation in the future; lve actually had this happen to me. Epoxy should sit for a minimum of 72 hours, preferably baked several times, and then fully scuffed with 150-180 before applying polyester. Secondly in reference to the shrinkage (l was in the pool!) Polyester really doesn’t have any. Perhaps it just comes down to product difference, l used to use slick sand now l use House of Kolor polyester. Because Polyester, or at least the HoK that l use, isn’t reduced and doesn’t have a lot of solvents, the shrinkage is essentially 0 and what you see is what you get when you spray it. Those are just my opinions from experience but ld like to hear what others thing as well
Well said. I've tried a few polyesters. Some Evercoat and PPG VP2100. By comparison, I liked the 2100. PPG was having trouble getting some ingredients a while back so it was offline. That's when I found the 2050 and stuck with it. I have used DP90LV reduced as a sealer for bare metal before polyester and had no issues with decent flash time and using just enough epoxy to cover. I was told by an Evercoat rep that the new generation of their polyesters are direct to metal if using the correct catalyst. Wouldn't recommend the Optex poly. It's a gimmick. Good concept but not enough contrast to call a guide coat. Sands like concrete. "I was in the pool". I caught that! "Like a frightened turtle". 😆
Thanks chris!
In regards to shrinkage all materials have a certain level of shrinkage the footage that was shown does not show it as good as I could. However, there is a good amount of shrinkage that happens with the ever coat that we sprayed in this video however, the VP 2050 has very little shrinkage and because it’s not just a straight epoxy it is a highbuild, it actually cures in three days And is not continuing to lose weight when measured on a scale. With that being said, you can topcoat the primer that we used with a poly, but I agree with your comment if you are using a traditional epoxy. thank you for your comment.
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS If either of your ever want to use a good polyester, l highly recommend the House of Kolor. Mixes with a hardener, no reducer, and sprays unbelievably smooth for a polyester. Like l said l used to use the evercoat slick sand and l had to reduce that by about 10-15% because it sprayed so chunky. This HoK poly sprays and sands even smoother than a reduced Evercoat product
@@looper451
Thanks for the tip. I'll keep that in mind if I have any supply issues with the 2050 again. Do you happen to have a ballpark price on that?
As a dealer tech, you can't afford mistakes, but as a one income family 40+ years ago, you bought used cars, fixed them and became transportation for everything. Even then, I would sand to bare metal for repair & a color change sometimes. I was shocked to sand a rock chip and find the "fingers of rust" spiderweb out 6", 8" or more. This scared me! We was going on under the paint to allow that? Not knowing it was fixed before using a standard primer, a standard filler, a standard sealer regardless of paint, single stage or base coat / clear. As chemistry has changed so much in 4 decades, now retired with time to research products, almost became more confusing to me. Only to find your channel and get explanations and straight answers from someone other than a guy behind the counter.
We get flash rust and serious rust in the upper Midwest states over winter as rock chips are not cleaned, treated and ignored. It is maintenance. No different the gear oil in the final drive. It gets attention once loud, obnoxious and headed for disaster. Then, it may get its first gear lube since new, but has 148 miles on it. Travis, thanks again for a great bucket load of information. Epoxy for my vehicle! Marketing drive the product and "DTM" is showing up everywhere and it scares me. It is not needed if you remove the old finish, sand and clean, spray. It implies that an acid, weak, strong, phosphoric or other is required. DTM to me, logically says skipping a step and costing more. I don't have a "Vibrance VB2050" budget, but I do have time. Not like a 34 year old guy, but one who will do each step, wait for it to shrink, do something else and revisit those panels later. Am I wrong? DK, Omaha. Great info.
Hi Dean! Another epic novel! 😁 Just kidding. Yeah, I hear you on the elements in the midwest. It's a killer. They don't call it the rust belt for nothing. One difference also is the difference in metals that are used from 40+ years ago to today. Some vehicles years ago you could find galvanized metal in certain areas (Mustang rockers) and usually held up pretty well. Now, all the sheet metal has zinc coatings so you dont see that spider rust as much as you used to.Then there is HHS, UHSS, alloys with boron,laminated steel,aluminum and so on. So you really need to know where and what it is. High tech stuff. Take care.
You are 100% correct there’s so many ways in this industry that you can slice anyone project but you were on the right path. We’re happy to help and thanks for watching.
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS Helping others succeed in their project using best practices is what we do. You teach, I learn, pay it forward. That is a true blessing to allow a total stranger to do it and be happy. Time is short.
Travis, you pick some great topics for your videos, nice!
I will say those that use product and let it cure, then destroy sample A, B, C etc get huge hits and likes. It is like project farms, except for automotive body.
Did you ever see MrFireman164 do his Ospho to body filler torture test. I haven't checked but 1.4M views and thousands & thousands of likes & comments. Stay healthy Travis! I hate sinus issues, plus the sales / tech for my electrodes & controller, they gave up and quit. Bummer! DK, Omaha
This guy is an excellent teacher.
Thank you so much
First time spraying vp 2050 today. Wow! This stuff sprays beautifully. 1.8 tip and it goes on like butter. Love the idea of using this all the way through the job.
Awesome I agree one stop shop 👍🏻
Great video. I use VP2050 all day and love it. Definitely a slow sanding product, but it’s physically tough as nails and I trust it with my life. I also use Tamcos 53XX series, best high build urethane in the business, period. I also love Tamcos 770 series, another hi build epoxy.
Thank you.
Polyester for high build. Just need to seal them or they might fail. Also need a 2.0 tip gun to spray it correctly.
ever use 53xx over etch? Can you?
the best explained 'primer' video on youtube...
Glad you think so!
You sir an an encyclopedia of information... the best for us DIYers.... my summer project is attacking rust on my 2009 corrolla, and keeping the thing going for another 5 years
Glad we could help!
Man I've been painting, stripping, restorating, and rebuilding for 44 years. If you would write the Painters-Filler bible I would buy it no matter the cost. I found out about flash times decades ago on my 71 Chevy truck. Painting the rebuilt control arms. I past the flash time with the second coat and it crackled. I spent twice the time removing all the paint then I spent on cleaning, priming and painting the parts. I wasn't too stupid then but now I realize now just how much I didn't know then. Thank you for a educational video.
Hey! Thank you very much 🙌🏻
Favorite channel learning a lot from the best all your videos are full of info thanks for teaching us and giving us all these videos 🙏
Thank you very much
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS am going to restore my old 73 beetle and I live overseas sadly ppl who work in the restoration and body work have no knowledge about products and and the right steps cars get painted after few years all the problems start showing like rust and shrinking and cracks 😞😞 so I’ll be trying to do it by myself or teach someone who has experience in body work what to do and what to use if we have the products here crossing fingers
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS can you plz send me your email I have questions about classic painting and restoring
Hey man im sending love - just a few hours before i watched this video i had ordered my primer- and watching your video im gonna sleep better knowing i finally got it figured out ( i was sweating thinking you were going say dont ever use this product) keep making videos peace
We’re very glad to hear that it helped. Thank you so much for your comment that means a lot.
Awesome! This will save me money by not buying products I don't need! Excellent info, thoroughly explained! 🖖🏿😎👍🏿
Glad it was helpful!
Nice video. When I try to explain to people what epoxy I refer to it as sprayable glue that is water and (depending on the product), chemical resistant
Nailed it 💯💯💯
You confirmed exactly what I thought about body filler and polyester primer. Thanks
Awesome!!
Excellent videos, clearly you know your stuff. Would love to see a video dealing with working a fiberglass body, start to stop.
I’ve actually had a couple requests from this. We will have to do one in the future
excellent video as always
i have learnt to read the product data sheet and you can't go wrong
👌🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Another very well explained video. Thank you for taking time to film, edit and post this video.
Glad it was helpful!
Mannn ! Finally someone who can make it easy to understand .I Really Appreciate this video can't thank you enuff .🤘🏾
Glad it helped
This is BY FAR! HANDS DOWN! one of THEE BEST PRIMER TUTORIALS ON RUclips!
VERY DETAILED, VERY INFORMATIVE!
question though, once your body filler is all Worked out and you have sprayed a high build feather fill polyester primer, blocked that and primer sealed it...
What is best primer to be allowed over the top of the sealer if you STILL have some imperfections? Use a putty/polyester feather fill to get any scratches/imperfections out? Or just go over it with a few coats of a Polyurethane Primer block and Seal prime again? (And yes I understand that you said to only apply filler/putty polyesters over Urethane or epoxy and NOT on Direct metal, so I get that, but if having to re-apply a high build primer or putty for filling/fixing Imperfections, can i just apply some more primer sealer to just those putty areas? Or should I first apply some Urethane Primer over the putty/ployester areas, resand then seal?)
Or would it be better to just go with the VP2050 Epoxy Primer over my Primer Sealer since it is technically a Sealer itself, block that, then finish with a Polyurethane Primer and Primer sealer (Sealer layer used once again, 2wice now)?
Fir last thing to do before laying down my base coat? As obviously a primer sealer should be the last and final layer before base coat
Thank you very much. If your body work is where you need it to be if you are using a polyester primer, you would keep applying polyester until your body work is done and then you would be sealing it up. You do not want to go back-and-forth with different kinds of primer. It might be OK but you’re just asking for problems. This is specifically why I only use VP 2050 I can use it when I start and when I am finished and when that is wet sanded with 600 grit. Then I can go over the car with a sealer and basecoat back to back wet on wet.
Also, make sure you read the TDS sheet VP 2050 is not used as a sealer. You cannot paint over it directly wet on wet.
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS that makes sense to me... However though after having to re-apply more polyester primer (like the Evercoat featherfill or Clausen All-U-Need) wouldn't i want to go over that with Urethane Primer, do 1 last FINAL block, then use the primer Sealer? Or should these Polyester Featherfill/high build Primers be only applied OVER scratches instead of any Urethane Primers? It just seems that these Poly-Urethane Primers have alot less shrinkage then the Polyester products so I thought that maybe a high build Polyurethane would just play it safer then the High Build polyester feather fill stuff...
I guess it would be also better on which decision at this step of the process to make, based on which of the 2 types of primers are easier and quicker to sand...
Again I REALLY have thought long about your advice to only either Etch Prime, then Urethane Prime... or if using EPOXY PRIMER, apply EPOXY PRIMER, then apply POLYURETHANE Primer BEFORE DOING BODY WORK (FILLER, PUTTY, POLYESTER FEATHER FILL PRIMERS) SO THAT ANY OF THE POLYESTER BASED PRODUCTS ARE NOT ON BARE METAL (UNLESS THEY ARE SPECIFIED TO BE DTM)...
So I guess what my question is, is that if I still had some small metal spots come through that weren't really high spots but lets say a high body line crease on a hood or top of a door panel, is it perfectly fine to go over that with some more DTM ONLY rated POLYESTER Primer? Or will I have to use the Self Etching Primer over these small bare metal areas???
And what about a PolyUrethane rated DTM Primer? Are those available? And if so Could I even use that still on top of body work before Primer Sealing? Or should that be Only applied on bare metal?
But I i do get that if I were to use a DTM Polyurethane over the small metal areas poking through, then NOT to go back and use a Polyester Featherfill DTM Primer again... As this seems the multiple layers of Polyester products would get wavy waves from shrinkage on the multiple layers...
I think answering this last FINAL Question will solve my dilemmas im having with the DTM rated stuff, When in doubt I would say that look on the Data Sheet to see if any of these DTM and DTM Polyester products have either typical shrinkage, very minimal, or virtually none!
I feel Like we are not only learning bodywork skills, but a blend of that and mad scientist chemists 😆 since if you study and learn your chemical compounds, it should REALLY Help out on what, with, when, where to use in conjunction or next to another chemical compound make up of another product... Whether its the same brand or another Brand...
Working in a shop where we do a lot of overall paint on older vehicles, sometimes will strip bad paint to bare metal & using an etch primer to seal the metal will just use a sealer over the etch primer & then just repaint the entire vehicle, this usually works very good & have never had any problems
Whatever works 👍🏻
I guess if you’re a lot of restoration work & applying body filler, I can see how these primers would be beneficial too!!
Great educational video! 20 yrs ago when I was a paint prepper, shop I worked in mainly used all Sherwin-Williams products including urethane primers. This was so long ago it was before water-based base coats. We used a light spray etch on all bare metals, and they preferred the body men to use filler directly on bare metal. Definitely a lot of products and procedures have changed since then. This channel has a lot of good helpful videos 👍
Thank you 👌🏻👍🏻
I only use epoxy/acrylic hybrids or HOK A and B. DTM for the win...usually good for fiberglass too. What I dont like about hybrids is the claim that it is used as a sealer too at a higher reduction. I prefer urethane sealers as they are more UV resistant than epoxies/hybrids. I also use paint stripper to remove old coatings. I prefer to sweep up the gunk rather than have dust all over my entire shop.
Spray On!
I agree
What do you recommend for a stripper?
This guy knows what he talking bout 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
Thank you
🤣
Man, this is a great informational video!!! Thanks a bunch, I learned a ton!!!
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for sharing your wisdom with a lot of us,I’ve learned so much in a few days God bless
Thank you!
Thanks , great information, very clear and direct , perfect!
The best on RUclips! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Thank you so much
Thank you!!
🙌🏻🙌🏻
I'm using a high build as both primer and sealer works for me nothing worse than shrink back, great video I was bored finger I watch it good info
Which primer?
So very helpful. Awesome explanation.....
Thank you
Excellent job explaining it sir.
Thank you!
These are the answers I needed thank you!
Thank you!
I’ve used I think every kind of primer you can think of in the last 30 years. My hands down favorite today is valspar DTM. Fills good, sands good, good price, DTM, and can be used as a sealer.
Whatever works for you 👍🏻
best video i've found going into finding the suitable primer for my project cheers!
Glad it was helpful!
i use the strip discs, they are awesome,
Once again , fantastic useable information. Many thanks.
Thank you very much
DUDE, YOU ARE MY HERO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻 thank you. Not all hero’s wear capes 🤣
Good video
Thank you!
Really like your videos I'm working on a 68 corvette would love to see some videos on working fiberglass thanks for knowledge 👍
I’ll keep that in mind. If you have instagram we just did a bunch on a cobra
Not having much luck with Instagram lol to old to figure it out. Do have a question I've been researching primers what would you recommend for fiberglass? Father fil g2 or vp 2050 or both? Thanks again for your knowledge!! If your ever in north Carolina holler at me
Thanks for a great video, this clears up a few questions for and old school 1 K paint guy. 🙂
Glad you enjoyed it
Thank you , great info and well presented
Glad it was helpful!
As always good video and info. Thank you
Thank you!
very informative thank you
Thank you!
like this guy....good info
Glad you enjoyed it
if you have the opportunity, put the car or pieces out in the sun, the suns uv rays are the best to make sure your primers are dry and won`t shrink later on
great video - Thank you!
You are welcome!
Best ever see video on the subject.
Thank you
thanks good info
Thank you
Very good video thank you for sharing
Thanks for visiting
What a wealth of usable information. I’m going through your videos now. I have questions for my own project. Working on a 41 Ford coupe for my wife and I just had the engine rebuilt. I’m wanting to paint it with an acrylic enamel, which I already have. I want the aluminum heads, block and oil pan to be painted same color. Questions:
1. Would you clean and acid wash, please keep in mind the engine is assembled and I can’t get water or other stuff in it.
2. Would you use epoxy or urethane primer? I want to do wet on wet.
Thank you for all your knowledge sharing.
I will not acid wash. I clean thoroughly with a degreaser scuff it up as best as I can use an epoxy primer and after that flash’s off go to paint. 👍🏻
Ok, so if I understand correctly. I start with bare metal, use wax and grease remover, then spray epoxy high-build sealer that can be sanded (the one you use). After it has dried for a week or so, the bodywork is then performed on top of that. My question is, during bodywork as I sand, if I start to see that I'm sanding through the sealer coat (like seeing pencil marks from a low area) I should stop and apply more coats of high-build sealer and let it cure for another week before continuing sanding/bodywork? Then, after all bodywork is complete, spray one last coat of sealer before the basecoat color goes down?
You are pretty spot on. You don’t have to reapply epoxy vp2050 until filler work is done. But if you are not happy after that you can re spot filler and 2050 as needed. Vp2050 is not a sealer. Actual sealer is different. You do that last before paint. We use Ecs sealer
There must be 10,,000 videos on block sanding & 99% of them are hacks & they're getting great reviews from people who don't know any better. I'm doing my best to get the word out about your channel. Cheers
We greatly appreciate that!! Thank you!!
Hi.....I'm a novice. If I'm doing a repair to bare metal....can I use an DTM epoxy primer up to the feathered edge of the repair???? I like the epoxy primer because of its hardness. I used it on mag wheels with corroded bead surfaces (after grinding and smoothing).
Good presentation.....thanks!
GREAT Video! Thanks for Sharing! Proud to be a Subscriber! Have A Super Week!…..Gus
Thank you! You too!
Slicksand (polyester) seems like it's not porous at all, used it to seal up a composite thermostat I'm experimenting with - I know its not the intended use - but it's sealed up a few leaks of coolant at 90c for a few months now. It's not the polyester itself that is porous but the additives mixed into the resin so depends on product, after all, every fibreglass hull uses polyester resin. Cheers for the video.
Thank you. Yeah they all have a different make up of chemicals. This video was intended for people to just help them get a clear direction on where they need to start so it’s not overwhelming. Thanks for your comment.
Thankyou. This is perfect
Glad it helped!
What happens if you're working on a car and you're doing rust repairs so there's sections of the car in bare metal but the paint is decent and I don't want to bare metal the entire car. Do you epoxy only the exposed bare metal, filler work and then a rub down the car car for a high build primer? Great vid and thans for the tips 👌
Yeah you can do that 👍🏻
Best teacher on the internet!! Thank you sir!! I’ve been using HOK KD3000 for my project currently. How do you feel it compares to VP 5050? Have you ever used it?
Thank you! Unfortunately I haven’t used it. Which one of the three categories is it?
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS falls under the DTM epoxy hybrid. Can be a high build first then reduced to a surfacer, then sealer depending on the mix ratio. Thanks for your reply. Was just curious if you’d used it before. I’m trying to keep to 1 product line (house of kolor) or else I would have used vp2050. Your videos have helped me tremendously during my process. Thanks again!
@@chetstevens4929 that’s great best route to go. Thanks for watching we’re glad to hear the successes
6:28 thanks for talking about the TDS. Im so fucken dumb. I forgot to look at the TDS. Just sprayed my urethane primer at wrong psi. Came out all messed up. Now im going to back and spray with TDS guidelines.
It should also tell you what tip size is recommended to spray that product too 👌🏻
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS Thanks man. Im new, still learning. Hence why I’m watching all your videos.
Awesome hope they help you tons
It would be nice to see some tests on DTM using the All-U-Need. Seems I hear this alot: "high end shops are using it and Claussen claims it can be used as a DTM but we don't do it......."
We don’t use polyester primer at all sorry
I remember being a broke kid back in the late 90s and i wanted to paint my first car a 69 toyota Corona one solid color becuase it had all the doors and hood not matching lol and i went to my nearest paint shop and the guy wanted 500bux to paint the car any color, but like i said was broke kid and asked if i could get anything done with 100bux and paint guys actually said yes lol. He said he could shoot my car with some left over polyester black primer, but i had to mask off the car myself. Let me tell you that 100 dollar primer paint job got me compliments everywhere from the rat rod and gasser dudes. The black polyester primer fades into a color between gray and black like the "Two-Lane Blacktop" 55 Chevy 👍.
Thanks!
Thank you!!
I still like my DP 90 over bare metal first, but after my bodyfiller I'm going to try Evercoat super build over it. Have always used NCP 271 for my final prime, but at over 800.00 a gallon I'll use the 2050 reduced.
The main reason I like vp2050 so much is that it’s one product instead of having to use several. Which results in better consistency and less failures. But whatever works👍🏻
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS I don't so much about failure, if I'm using the same products from primer, base coat to clear.
Awsome info learned so much so far I have a question I epoxy primed 2 fenders 2 weeks ago now I would like to polyester them I have sanded them with 220,question is is the red scuff pads enough bite for poly also i do have pinholes in the epoxy should I glaze them or will the poly fill them or bridge them also is the 3.0 tip to much for poly
I personally do not trust the scratch from a red scotch pad. But yes, it will definitely cover your pinholes. You can always regulate the needle and flow if the three-point is too big.
there are DTM urethane primers....that are true DTM....and they have them that are high build. I have used a few that are almost the same as Polyester. super high build and still flexible. Unlike Polyester primers, many of the guys I know dont use polyester because they have cracking issues. Honestly I havent had that problem. and I like polyester. But I normally use DTM hight build Urethane primer for all purposes. You just need to READ THE DATA SHEETS.....I say it all the time on my channel too. Another good one is to use Epoxy and NON DTM high build like you do with polyester. Chameleon makes one like that. Great primer.
I mentioned dtm urethanes in this video. So far I get best results with vp2050 it seals and is thicker than any polyester on the market. One product is better than several. I’ll have to check out your channel 👌🏻
We also do not use poly. Poly was performed in the video to break it down for people. We only use vp2050 start to finish
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS The PPG products are good but a pretty pricy. There are some other brands that work well and are a bit cheaper. PPG is a big name for large shops and has a good system and training. But there is nothing like many years of getting priced into learning other brands. It seems like so many brands are cheap for a while then once they get you then they raise the price. then your searching for another brand that does the same thing. I think your in socal so we have a whole other ball game of VOC....approved products.
@@Mikefngarage yes I’m in Ca. It sucks!!! Lol I’m actually a small 2k sq ft shop in my back yard. Here’s my thoughts on that…. I started my business in my 3 car garage many years ago using the dtm urethanes and the polys etc. You get what you pay for when it comes to ppg if you are doing quality work the cost of the product is the least of your problems. Stick with one paint system start to finish and learn the product as I’m sure you have. Whatever works for that shop and or job. This channel is dedicated to helping bring back the trade and get younger generations involved in knowing there’s good money to be made in Autobody.
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS yea.....I have been there with PPG many years ago. My fagorite is BASF...RM or Glasso. but too many $$$....I do the same teaching people to restore their own cars at home. Great products out there that way less expensive. Was a painter many years ago....You know they pay the same Flat rate hour today as they did 35 years ago? I just do it for fun now. Moved into real money Sign industy painting which we use PPG paint in that. Or Axzo Nobel....who makes sikkens. LIsten keep up the good work. connect with the younger crowd.
I've been using the VP 2015 for my 57 Chevy truck and it's amazing thank you for the video my only question is when you burn through do you go back with VP 2050 and touch that spot up or do you just use a urethane over the Bondo that you burned through
I always make sure I go back over it with 2050 before I go to a urethane sealer you need uniform coverage and if you just rely on the urethane over the areas that burned through it will shrink back and have a halo later on down the road guaranteed ask me how I know 🤣
Hey Travis, is the PPG CRE dtm high build epoxy a good substitute for VP 2050? VP 2050 is hard to get where I live right now. The paint store called PPG and they are waiting on raw material for the 2050 but they stock the CRE. The technical data sheets look very similar but CRE is the industrial version. Have you had any experience with the CRE?
During 2020-2022 we also had supply issues where I am and the CRE works great. I still like 2050 better but it’s damn near the same 👍🏻
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS Thank you very much.
Great video so my question is there's no need to use self etch primer when you can use 2k for a sealer it that correct. !! Thanks
You are talking two different questions. Etch is for bare metal if you are not using epoxy or a DTM. A sealer is done before paint. Does that answer it?
Try Southern Poly Epoxy... SPI makes a killer product.
Great info! I am a newby, working on a 54 chevy car. My local paint shop recommended me using Roberlo DTM 4:2 Urethane primer. I like what you said about the VP2050 for the hardness. I guess using the Urethane primer was not a mistake but could the VP 2050 be used as a sealer on top of it? Thanks for such a wonderful explanation!
I do not recommend 2050 as a sealer. Get an actual sealer.
Really informative videos. Started out watching the ones from several different people but now just mainly watch yours. I'm restoring a 56 Belair and a nova ss at the moment, have 90% of my metal work done and it's time to start removing the heavy surface before priming. Just wondering if you or any of your followers have tried Picklex 20 rust converter, if it is worth the asking price. Don't have information on application as of yet but it is supposed to be compatible with the ppg 2050.
I’ve never heard of it we use rust mort converter.
love your content!
Glad you enjoy it!
Great videos! Thank you for doing these videos. What do you do for the backside of panels for protection? Remove e-coat and epoxy prime and sealer?
They all vary. We strip ecoat and epoxy. After epoxy some get painted some get undercoated and some get lizard skin
Thank you for response!
Wow this video was so helpful! I am in the process of shaving my engine bay. After watching this is seems like the VP2050 epoxy primer is the way to go... I am however worried about all the little nooks and crannies in an engine bay since I won't be able to DA sand a lot of those with 80 grit. I could definitely just use my hands and some 80 grit sandpaper in those spots but not sure if the pattern created by the DA sander is required for the epoxy to stick?
No we hand sand all of our cars before body filler
Great video!.......I got a fiberglass camper shell for free that was sanded (probably 80-120) all over exposing quite a bit of gel coat on the corners by the previous owner (sorry for the run-on).....do I need a sealer before a primer? Thanks!
I would epoxy it and then high build primer.
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS 1k or 2k? Thx
I was told that it’s acceptable to scuff e-coat with 800 scotch-brite with no etch or epoxy primer and straight base coat. Is this incorrect? Great video BTW
I def would not trust that adhesion method.
What if I got a rust pitted surface. Etch primer to convert/stick to the damaged steel. Then how do I bondo over that?
Many ways to slice it. Blast it and epoxy but you’ll get some warp. Or rust mort neutralize it then scuff it and epoxy
Shrinkage is the reason most collision shops done use epoxy primer and only DTM urethane. THey do have TRUE dtm urethane primers. that are high build. Lots of products out there. Not all products are the same.
Who said they were the same? Lol also that’s not why epoxy shrinks far less than urethanes or poly we’ve done the shrink tests on them.
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS you talked as if urethane primers are not high build. honestly there are so many variations of this stuff there is no 1 way to do this. but yea an epoxy is a good base for some people. where I live they rarely ever use it in a restoration shop that is finishing a car in a short time. Some of the urethanes are really good at sealing as well. Nothing you said was wrong but there are a lot more variations out there that work well and last. It all depends on the weather of where you are places your storing the car while under restoration. I prefer putting filler on bare metal most of the time but over epoxy is just fine if your using a filler with adhesion promoter in it like USC AG47 now called grip filler I think 7000. It is better than any evercoat product I have used. much better than zgrip. easier sanding less pinholes. Cheaper than rage and near the same.
@@Mikefngarage finishing a car in a short time and restoration don’t belong in the same sentence. The benzene in the hardener of filler alone is what causes rust. Also I specifically stated all the primers discussed can be found in a high build and or dtm that’s enough said I don’t need to sit here and talk about every primer out there I’m trying not to confuse people. Get what works for you and that’s it.
Don't you think speed, out the door time, is the deciding factor most of the time for collision shop product choice? That and sticking with a single manufacturer for the warranty claims?
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Could this be used on inner quarter panels where they connect to the inner tub? If i were to access through the trunk and spray as much in as I can? Maybe even with a small enough needle to apply it between the tub and quarter between the layers from the outside?
What ?
I know this is an old video but if you didn't have an option for a high build epoxy, would the polyester be the one to use?.
As long as it is approved over, bare Metal. The biggest take away from this video is making sure people take the time to look up the TDS sheet for each product and make sure that it fits their requirements. 👌🏻
The primer/epoxy debate… I miss DP40 and K36 .
Silkens Ep and 3+1 from back in the day was really good stuff to..The best is spray a product and let it dry thoroughly before coating it with another product ..Wet on wet is not a good idea for restoration type work…
Agreed 💯
So you use epoxy primer 1st (bare metal), than body work eg: filler/bog, than polyurethane, than urethane is that correct
For most shops, yes. That’s more or less the Collision way of doing things in my opinion. However, I like the VP 2050 because it is one primer that basically does everything you need to do you spray it over bare metal scuffed that up with 80 grit do your bodywork. seal it back up with the exact same primer block that down and wet sand and the only other material you will need is sealer before paint in my opinion you’re using less different materials for less failures and it’s doing everything you need to do with a high quality
During renovation would it be appropriate for epoxy, then filler or body work then urethane primer or sealer, then base, then clear? Thank you.
That’s the standard yes.
heres one for you, 84 Fiero weathered ive had to do lots of sanding to get the roughness out of the hood and roof .which is SMC, the fenders and bumpers i think are the same urethane now there is spidering on the fenders and bumpers should I use epoxy after sanding down past the paint and maybe use a polyester primer to build over the spidering?? not sure what to do here as everything is flexible . urethane primer?? for the whole car? . Thanks in advance . great videos
Thank you! Yep strip it down all the way and epoxy. You are on the right path. If it was me, I would use VP 2050 to do the whole thing start to finish and not use any other primer. I’m not just saying that for no reason that’s all we use and we have great results.
Question: is media blasting sufficient prep for adhesion before applying epoxy? If my car body is completely media blasted do I still need to prep it with 80 grit for proper epoxy adhesion?
If the media you are using leaves a rough profile, then you are good to go directly to epoxy
Hey sylvertercustoms I have a quick question , what body filler do you recommend ? I seen you use upol lightweight and ever coat rage ultra . I’m currently in school and working on my project but can’t decide what body filler to purchase . Your opinion will save me a headache .
Upol went down hill we don’t use it anymore. We use rage ultra or 3m platinum plus
Great video! Also perfect timing.
I am stripping my panels to bare metal. And once I was done, I am spraying Eastwood epoxy primer. I also have to do body work on it. So some thin set bondo. At this point would you spray 2k primer, sand, then spray sealer . Then base coat clear coat?
Thanks
We only use one primer vp2050 but yes you definitely could do it that way. I try and limit how many different primers I use because of potential failures etc. consistency is always best but do whatever works within your project and budget
I used to use Urethane high build primer to do my final sandblocking. I heard it takes much longer than polyester to fully cure and can produce urethane wave down the line. I loved how great it sanded. I have since moved to polyester (evercoat slicksand) but noticed its much harder to sand and the prices of Polyester primer seem to have skyrocketed. Thinking of going back to Urethane for final blocking. Is it true that it takes weeks to months to final cure and no more shrinking?
Depends on the product and mill thickness etc but yes it could. I use an epoxy highbuild
Dtm isn't needed for my project since it is fiberglass.
I don't like the sound of porous for obvious reasons. What would the best high build product to be to go over fiberglass?
Thanks
Vp2050 as stated in this video
cre is the off brand of 2050- ? can you put these over paint ? thank you for your awesome videos you are very through at explaining things !
Thank you. CRE is the industrial version of the same product VP 2050 you are correct when they had shortages with the resin‘s. We were using CRE and it worked amazing. and yes, if you are going over an existing paint job, you can do that with his primary as well.
Thanks ! 👊🏻✌🏻
You bet!
Ok so urethane high build is better for body filler repairs or epoxy then use the urethane as a sealer?
I don’t even use urethane. I only use vp2050 until I get to my ECS sealer when I’m ready to paint. I like epoxy high build products. It streamlines the headaches and your more consistent with one product