We have a SURPRISE as Customer taking us to Court phones us up!
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- Опубликовано: 2 июл 2024
- youtube.com/@LifeOutsideBarum...
Hit the link guys for a look into our second channel 👍
In todays video we get a surprise phone call by the guy taking us to court, this is what he said 
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Remember that he's not your customer. He has to claim against his supplier, the garage.
100%
Probably recording you while sitting with his solicitor
exactly
@@keithgreen9009I was thinking that as well but I am certain that anything said on recording without knowledge of being recorded is inadmissible and his lawyer would face sanctions for doing something stupid. Aside from that, I don’t think anything Lee would have relayed would give them the “edge” they are looking for.
I believe only one party needs to be aware as classed as ethical call recording used for a legitmate purpose - was also thinking the same, you can though also record calls for private use without other parties consent @@andrewwasson6153
He is not your friend, despite him trying to be pleasant. He is taking you to court, so dont forget that.
It's him being insincere, not nice 👍
He should be taking the garage to court
Any communications from or to the guy should go through your solicitors.
Said the £££ solicitor £££....
If that guy calls again, decline to discuss the issue with him, but tell him to send you any communications via HIS lawyer, so you have it on record for the upcoming court case. This will also ensure that he is incurring costs.
@@ataxpayer723 Exactly. Make no comment or any further comments as this is going to court. Here's a story...at Walmart USA a white female customer was going mad (unsure why) & there's a white female employee/manager communicating with her in a good & professional way....until a "I will sue you" was mentioned by the customer. The manager realised what was going on & straight away said "No comment" to all of her questions. It will harm her/Walmarts defence. That's why being accused by a law enforcement/old bill it's best to remain silent asap.....police will stitch you up to make an easy/easier conviction....always remember that! Police can do you for talking to them then remaining silent! You wanna remain silent as soon as an allegation/accusation is made as it will turn against you!
Nonsense. This is a case where straight talk and not legal talk is necessary. Lee is a good bit smarter and more confident than the average solicitor
Better still, Any communications from that guy should go through HIS solicitors, thereby incurring him with additional costs!
Stand your ground...
Without wishing to give legal advice, I was involved in a lot of county court disputes and we were told once a summons has been issued NOT to talk direct to the client, it could prejudice your case. But the fact he rang you trying to do a deal is significant, and possibly prejudices his...
It could also prejudice BE's, as courts don;t like parties that won't budge at all.
However. This guy is NOT a client or customer of Barum Engines, therefore Barum should not be a party to the case.@@dopiaza2006
Sounds like this guy is having some misgivings and will work a deal to appease his ego by not admitting total defeat. IMO, proceed to court and let the burden of proof fall on his shoulders. Personally I don’t think he has a leg to stand on.
He doesn't, but sounds like he is trying the US approach of suing everyone related to the engine.
Hands up for Crank Grinding by John...
🙋
No solicitors fees with small claims court, so just let it run.
In future charge for everything and if taken to court, counterclaim. Hence why you need to bill for the stuff so there’s a paper trail.
NO SURRENDER.......
MGB guy is dithering, as he Knows he will lose the case, so as it gets closer, counter Sue the Garage, for the extra work you put in, plus rings, gaskets etc, and NEVER do business with this Garage again
once he looses in court send him an invoice for dealing with it😂
Lee, you must be psychic! After watching Thursdays video and see John. I would love to see how he measures a crank and most importantly how he grinds it. Seen how Issac balances a crank but hopefully John will show the first step. Great to see him and his Austin 7. Many thanks Dave Boscher, Guernsey, Channel Islands.
Never Back Down if You are Not in The Wrong ...... Opens a Can of Worms
Tell him to jog on, have your day in cort prove him wrong, respect,
I would of told him anything you have to say to me tell your solicitor to put it in writing and send it to my solicitor..
Anyone who gets the government involved for something so petty doesn’t deserve your time of day
Indeed. The government only ever make things worse, they aren't there to help you.
Follow it through to court if you cave in and make an offer without court you open yourself up in future
Great video 👍 The issue is with the garage not the customer he should not be getting involved on the garages behalf😮
As we say in Australia: fair suck of the sauce bottle. You’ve gone above and beyond doing work you didn’t have to do, helping where you could but didn’t have to! Don’t budge
Lee,
No deal man! You are 100% correct. The PVC was damaged, a good setup would have been impossible to reach. Therefore, the engine smoked like a sailor. Stick to you guns bro! If you don't win in court, you stood on principal. Well worth the cost of business.
About the King bearings. Have you spoken to someone at the manufacturer. If I were the owner of a company with the reputation of King Bearing, I would hope a customer would call me and let me know what is going on with QC. The kind of miss packaging errors you are finding just in two shipments points to a very serious problem. How many sets do the ship in a week? How many engines are getting mixed sized bearings. The cost of making things right could be catastrophic. Go ahead and at least call the sales representative for your area. Invite him to visit your place and show him what you have found. Sales guys usually have a lot of power over production and are the ones that bring these issues to the top at the plant. Hey, it will give you a chance to show off your remodeled shop, pass out a few pieces of merch for him to give the guys on the manufacturing floor and he might even mention BE along his route doing business. FREE ADVERTISNG is worth its weight in gold. Maybe send the guy a few passes to see your car running on track day. Hey, not a bad idea. Spread a few of these passes along to some of your customers.
Oh yeah, nice to see John in front of the camera. More power to you John. Being camera shy is perfectly normal. Hey, I bet you family will love it. Now a big RUclips star! 😀
Well, that being said, I'm going to let you go. Keep up the good fight. She running like a fine watch now.
Cheers,
Alan from the USA
B2b transaction different rights, he is not your customer so should be thrown out of court due to this, he has no invoice in his name from you so can’t see him getting anywhere
Agreed...believe it will be thrown out of court..
That case will go to preliminary hearing and the judge will say you have no case to answer and kick it out. He has ZERO legal ground to take you to court. He's not your customer
No retreat, no surrender.
I think you explained the situation very well on this video Lee. You are a business at the end of the day. And your attitude “I will pay if I have too but I don’t think I should” is perfect.
The PCV was faulty all along ! So the first engine rebuild was probably not required anyway 🤣 ! So the garage really did @@@@ up big time ! Basic error in the original diagnosis ! Do not give in on this please 👍🇬🇧
As many people have said and will say - he's not your customer.
He should be suing the company that presented him with the final bill and then it's up to that garage to sue you if they have a leg to stand on (which personally I don't think they do)
Don't waste your time, we keep telling him all this repeatedly but he is not listening!
Guy might suspect some kind of conspiracy between workshop and Barnum's in order to get people to pay for unneeded work.
Sounds like it was the valve all along.
That customer knows you are right Lee, stick to your guns even if it goes to court mate ...👍
As a business owner you HAVE to draw the line in the sand.
If you don't then you will get a reputation as being someone who simply folds when threatened with legal action.
And if you get that reputation then every dickhead and their cousin will have a go at you.
Conversely, if you get the reputation of being hard BUT FAIR then you will attract a better class of client.
Especially if you are doing top class work.
You had no contract with him, therefore nothing to pay.
With you all the way.
I can't believe the MG fracas isn't resolved, yet! I'm going to give you a bit of grief, here, Lee- I really felt that not charging for the work you did when the engine was returned, lead to them trying this on. I thought you'd been clear that you'd fix anything you had done wrong, but otherwise, it was on them, and they'd pay for the teardown. Yes, you were a good lad, and didn't labor the point, and it does speak well of the type of man you are, but doing so set you up for the less-than-honorable chancers at the other shop to give you the blame. I'm not going to say "good guys finish last", but I will say that good guys have to keep an eye open for slimy bastards who'll try and dodge the consequences of their own ineptitude.
Yes Lee mate stick to it. The easy way is pay up but it wont make you feel very good. Win or lose you make a point. Go to court, at the least it will be experience for you and the future.
Lee, please don't lock yourself in a room in the workplace. If you suffer a traumatic injury or medical event it will delay help getting to you ♥
Never give up. Never surrender!
A suggestion, take photos of a part (a head, crankshaft, camshaft, block, etc) that you intend to replace that comes without certain other parts so there will no mistake when that part is sold or installed. I hope what I said made sense. All the best.
No deal. Learn your lessons from this situation.👍👍👍👍👍
Great news John’s going to be a RUclipsr 👏🏻also Lee No way pay money to him you have done enough it’s the other Garage problem not yours
no deals, he knows he's not going to win, let him take u to court
Go court and make sure he pays all your lawyers fee's as well
The guy who owns the car is not your customer, no liability…
You did the top job here. You did it once for free!! That shop miss diagnosed it in the first place.
Don't forget to claim all your legal fee's from him when you WIN.
I may be incorrect but I believe that fees in a small claims court are not recoverable.
@@RonSeymour1 you are correct
did Lee say it's the small claims court@@RonSeymour1
Lee, you should've stated, talk to my lawyer and put the phone down.
I doubt lawyers are involved as this will be a small claims matter.
Dude That PCV wasn't "damaged" it was fucked.
Anyone working on a car like that should be able to spot it immediately on dismantling
In court, put it in simple terms for them; you, in good faith, reconditioned an engine for your customer (the garage) who had misdiagnosed a fault (the pcv valve)which subsequently continued to present original symptoms. Again, in good faith, you redid some of your work and yet again paid a further bill for work done by another party who finally diagnosed the fault.
I can’t see how a reasonable person can’t see in your favour and suggest the aggrieved mg owner direct his angst toward the original garage.
Sounds to me that the chap is getting cold feet, things he will lose but is trying to save his pride - and trying you on for a few quid!
Surely this will end up going through mediation and you’ll probably be persuaded to compromise - I had a very similar experience recently 😂
As far as King Bearings goes, the mix up will continue until they have some skin in the game. Suggest the drive to your shop with a set of bearings, when you get them, open them up in front of the King representative, before you accept them. That would only have to happen once.
Mate, not a lawyer, but you have the ability to provide a clear description of the workings of the motor and without the confusing shorthand most mechanics use. You can easily provide a judge a clear description (like the one in this vid) in a manner that shows that your work and the other work undertaken mean that motors are more elemental than dependant on the functions of a single supplier. Highlight the problem with the pcv valve as an item outside your control and liability, and show that in isolation your work was completed. satisfactorily as well as your willingness to pay for the MG specialist work. You have paid enough, it has cost you a lot of time dealing with this on top of the work undertaken, and it is time this guy stopped trying to get everything for free.
You're absolutely correct to be sticking to your guns / making it a point of principle. Remember, no good deed goes unpunished ... sadly!
Bloody heck. Can not get parts and then they are boxed wrong. Part of the set of bearings being wrong is definately a problem. Seems now you have to request the supplier unbox bearings and verify the sizes.
Excellent news, welcome John, it will be great to see what’s involved with the crank grinding 👍
I would go to court and do a counter claim for your HR rate and solicitor costs for being at court because he should be claiming from the garage that did the job for him and I would let him know
He phoned you at home??
You need to bring this up in court.
It's harassment.
Trying to get a heads up on your defence, very sly. Will look bad in court.
Hold your ground and insist on court.
Be great to see what John does 👍👍
Look forward to see John a bit more. Go to court and have your say, If you lose, Its as you say not much.
Yes Lee it was great listening to John
Sounds like he’s having second thoughts and regretting his actions
Get your costs , and make them substantial , puts off future chancers
Sounds like his solicitor has told him he's not likely to win this case so he's got on the phone to try and befriend you just the way he's said about a reasonable offer.
I doubt a solicitor would tell him that, not once it's headed for court.
Though often cases are sent for mediation first to see if the parties can come to an agreement.
Pretty cool to see the engines you work on over on that side of the Atlantic. From the US.
Stay logical. Stay pleasant. And stay firm. If you lay it out just as you did for us, you have your best shot. From there, it's up to the judge/majestrate. Good luck.
I second what EricaMTB says not your customer so he has the dispute with them not you. He should have raised it with them in them first instance. Remember when you win the court case to claim back ALL costs incurred. Time off work ect ect that's if its going through the small claims court ????? Would love to see more of the carnk work being done. Thanks for the link for the second channel. I couldn't see a link any where before. As always looking forward to next weeks video.
Let’s have an episode on John and his Austin, must be plenty to go at, there’s a passion for historical motoring there
Lee your in the right that garage messed up trying to blame you good luck in court mate 👍👍
Awesome quality checks there with the bearings.
You gotta stand up for your principles. Learn when you can !!
I would never spoke on the phone, but politely asked him to put it in an email. They can always change their minds conveniently when it suites them in court. If its an email, its in writing.
He's not your customer, so the case will be dismissed straight away.
It will be thrown out in court as you had no contract with him.
Lee stand your ground he's just trying to get your cash as he knows he isn't going to win he's case , keep up your good work 😊
Lee, if and when you do end up in court, make sure you've prep'd an explanation that's pitched at a level that a non-mechanic will understand, because that's who's going to be sitting in the big chair. If you go in with jargon and tech-speak, the magistrate will simply just come down on the side of the claimant. They probably won't be aware that there was another garage involved, the claimant is unlikely to have disclosed the full details. And there's not a judge on the planet that will want to waste time listening to stuff they don't understand, they'll just come down on the side of the claimant and have done with it. It might be an idea to have a brief written outline that you can submit to the court by way of support.
STAND YOYR GROUND MATE. YOUR BANG ON IN WHAT YOU SAID WTHE THE MG
If he wants to make a deal out of court, he knows he is on shaky ground.
Go to court, I think you'll win, that said I think he may drop the action
No Deal ....😂
If the garage had done their job, you wouldn't have had the engine back in the first place.
In future take photographs as evidence of each job uploaded to A folder on Google Drive see you have clear evidence of dates and what work was done and keep that data for up to 6 years
A daft question but why does cam offset vary between two and four wheel drive ?Also ref.the MG lump why did no one change the PCV diaphram knowing it was split in the first place?
Doesn't seem a daft question to me
Go to court. Set your rules and stick with them.
I reckon you could edit all the vids together on this subject and have a mini series out of it, can't bloody wait for the outcome.
Think you will find the customer can not take you to court only the garage can
Stand your ground
He has no claim on Barum Engines..not in anyway shape or form....as he will find out.
Great news to see more of John we haven’t seen any crank grinding being done👍
Any communications MUST be in writing and if it’s in court then it’s through the courts now.
The customer that complains the loudest (the other garage) in my experience is the one that knows they mucked it up and are trying to cover there arse.
Sometimes its not about money it's the principal.
No deals. The garage is responsible - he's trying to get his wasted money off the wrong people.
100% in the right. That garage screwed up and isn't even honest enough to take it on the chin and learn from it!
Looking forward to crankgrinding by John.😊
Stock to your guns. You've been MORE than fair
This is classic case law - there must be a similar precedent but if you do win it gives you a strong basis to argue any future similar claims. As long as you get a judge capable of understanding the technicalities and not just cop out and find in favour of the customer.
Bring on John!
Courts like facts. The judge will not understand the technicals, unless it can be explained very simply. Who was to blame and why. Judgement is made ' on balance of probabilities' so if supplier A did not do what they were supposed to, that must be stated. Your role must be explained along with the reason you should not have to pay anything. All the best.
PS I used to 'lap in' piston rings loooong ago
Yup, keep it simple. You don't have any contract with this person. They are not your customer. But Judges will get annoyed with piles of facts and overbearing legal reps for a small case.
SUGGESTION. To help the court, you draw a diagram that shows each of the parties, and who was dealing directly with whom. ( use arrows to show the direction of the relationship ) The diagram needs to show that Barum had no direct dealing with the owner of the MG.@@nickbea3443
No Deal,stick to it.
Cheers Lee, I would think the court would ask the guy why he hasn’t claimed against the Garage. If you have documents with his signature on and a judge can see a trail where you have acted appropriately then all well and good but if it’s he sez we sez then the judge will just say pay the guy.
Might be a good idea to take photos of your work to give to the customer and save yourself just in case.
not your customer, not your issue!
Seeing as it is raining, and it too wet to go outside to do some sunbathing, you could take advantage of the weather, and finish painting around your doors, and above the fire escape.
Get John back on and lets see him in action at Wiscome Hill 👍
Lee Miester, stay the course, I get a feeling that "word on the street" is that you fold easily, believe it or not, shops not only get a rep for quality, or lack thereof, but also how Warrantee issues are handled. What happens, is some folks come to a shop and for some reason, maybe because you are not so formal, not having specifics in your warrantee, they think you are their nephew and you will do a bunch of freebees, by holding the line on this case, and tightening your warrantee requirements, you can put a stop to this. You can include, improper fuel setup, improper ignition setup, improper fuel, improper oil, "Racing", etc. This covers all bases, and if you wish to extend courtesy, then you can, but are not obligated. Oh as someone said below, and I think we have told you this before, "hello, oh Mr Blackadder, I'm sorry, any communications between us must go through my attorney, have a great day Click" think WWAAD, What Would An American Do 🤣🤣🤣🤣