Paper Mario the Thousand Year Door Remake VIVIAN TRANS?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Paper Mario the Thousand Year Door Remake VIVIAN TRANS | Paper Mario the Thousand Year Door Remake Switch Reaction Walkthrough Gameplay garoshadowscale
#papermariothethousandyeardoor #papermario #garoshadowscale
Did you play the original?
I did, and I still have it. I bought the remake yesterday
I have never played it I only watched other people play it but I will play the Nintendo version tho
Yes I had😊
Yes I had for a while
The original Japanese version had allusions to Vivian being Trans.
The Italian translation of the original also has Vivian say “I know I am a real woman.”
i cooka da pizza
@@ToasterLad_I makea da spaghetti.
@@Frostbyte_Ace-XD i crusha da turty
@@ToasterLad_perchance
5
Vivian is Trans in paper Mario?!? Next thing you’re gonna tell me is that Birdo has been trans for the last 35 years….
I'm pretty sure birdo is just it's own species
birdo is canonically trans
I think it was a joke@@rAgeJbear1
Bordo is literally a joke in the series. But here we are with the 41% weirdos taking it like a “trans icon”
@@Ericspil790cause birdo is trans?
the italian translation actually keeps her gender identity and her love interest for mario
Hai visto pure tu il video di Mario's castle?
@@pixellello tipo due anni fà lol
Siiii 😍 💅🏼🔝🫰🏻💕✨🏳️⚧️
Wait, if that's the case...
Mario must be Pansexual.
Same with the spanish one
The thing with the original japanese version is that Vivian refers to herself as female, when other characters and sources refer to her as male, for..a few reasons. Beldam is always meant to be just an abusive bigot and a bully to Vivian, while others such as the original jp Tattle dialogue may come from less understanding of trans 20 years ago.
The remake now adjusts some things to a more accurate translation and adding onto it making it more clear with having a better understanding of it all now.
Exactly, people like to say "but the games says she's a man" without understanding that maybe 2000's Japanese game devs didn't have a spectacular understanding of trans issues. Regardless of the intentions of the devs, they put in an AMAB character who identifies as a woman i.e. a trans woman
W beldam
@@mr.chinglemittsHow original. Wanna add the S number for an extra 4.99?
SO IT WAS A TOMBOY. 😂
To my knowledge Vivian was described as a male that liked to dress female (Crossdresser) in the original Japanese
The big question is:
How does gender even work for a shadow?
If gender for a shadow is a matter of self identification, that makes Beldam even more of a scumbag since if so, shadows can be whatever.
Or am I overthinking a Mario species? XD
Makes sense to me. The Three Shadows also have access to magic, so what's to stop Vivian from altering her appearance with a shape-shifting spell of some kind? Personally, the ones I think are overthinking are the ones making a big deal that she's trans. It just adds to her backstory and helps explain why her sister, Beldam, picks on her.
Yeah it's pretty likely to just be self identification since shadows can likely shapeshift and change their physical form at will.
Doesn’t Vivian also kiss Mario on the cheek at the end of that chapter too or am I making stuff up
@@Pr0fessorUnkn0wn She does.
@@Pr0fessorUnkn0wnshe does cause every female character in ttyd does
*How are shadows even transparent? We can clearly see them.*
*insert crickets.mp3*
in retrospect, the new translation is actually much closer to the original ITALIAN translation, where she specifically comments that she feels like a woman and is proud of it, despite the persecution of her sisters. so this isn't new, just finally being spread globally.
A line in the Japanese script;
"それに じつは アタイ・・・
体は オトコのコだけど
ココロは カワイイ オンナのコなの"
"The thing is... I...
I have a boy's body, but my heart is a cute girl's!"
(using feminine first person pronouns)
'B-but Vivian is a crossdresser. He's a man!'
Nope.
Vivian is degradingly called 'otokonoko' by Beldam.
Otokonoko has two meanings depending on the kanji used:
男の子 = boy
男の娘 = male daughter / crossdresser / femboy
However, in SPM it is written in katakana (オトコノコ) which could mean either, but the first meaning (boy) is SIGNIFICANTLY more common and it can be reasonably inferred to be saying 'boy'. The second one is a pun and only really used in niche circles.
It is also important to note that 'otokonoko' is only used by Beldam, who the story frames as an antagonist and awful person for mistreating Vivian (e.g., Vivian introduces themselves as the 3 shadow sisters. Beldam insults Vivian for using the word sisters, stating that she's a boy, and forcing her to apologize). So even if it were using the second definition, it would be completely meaningless since Beldam is constantly shown by the narrative itself to demean Vivian and not respect her identity.
Other characters, as well as Vivian herself, describe her as a woman and use feminine pronouns when mentioning her.
TL;DR, Vivian is trans. Cope.
"O-oh yeah? The JP script also has the line 'He may look like a girl, but he's actually a boy.' That CONFIRMS Vivian is a man for sure!"
Nope.
This quote is used as a 'gotcha!' as if this isn't just a way to convey the message that Vivian is MtF to the audience in 2004. Do you really expect Japan to use and explain the meaning ofトランスジェンダー in 2004 when that wasn't even a word commonly used in America at the time?
The simple fact is, Vivian self-identifies as a girl despite being born “male”, and the word for that in our language, which the *author does not have control or authority over* is “transgender woman”.
At that point, it really doesn’t matter that the narrator says.
TL;DR, Vivian's direct statements on her identity overwrite ALL other statements about her identity. It is really that simple. Cope.
"W-well even if Vivian is a trans woman, it adds NOTHING to the story! It's just woke pandering!"
Nope.
Vivian being trans IS a huge part of her character and overall story. Her being bullied over her identity is what causes her to leave the Shadow Sirens and join Mario as an ally.
Also, her being trans definitely adds subtext to a chapter all about Mario literally having his body taken from him and having friends turning on him, to the point where he couldn't even say his own name so he has to steal it back.
TL;DR, Trying to downplay Vivian being trans is downplaying the themes of the story and the entire character itself. Cope.
@@Xenomnipotent Sticker Star also calls her an otokonoko.
Thats a really cute description of her.
"In the original Gamecube version"
I think you mean "In the English and German gamecube versions".
Niko?
Niko from the not so known indie game OneShot?
He literally says "at least in the English and German localizations."
Marry me.
“There’s a big controversy right now”
No, there isn’t. There’s the people who understand the fact that this is canonically more accurate to the original as well as impactful for Vivian’s character, and the people who are afraid of change and anything different from them.
I wonder how people would react if they made Mario catholic.
@@WeAreBeanlorDOr muslim
Finally, Vivian and Madeline can recreate that one handshake meme
I don’t really see what the big deal is for the people complaining. It’s not like this confirmation changes the character journey of Vivian. She’s still the underdog and black sheep of her family, is constantly bullied and belittled by her older sister, isn’t really as down with the evil plans as they are, and ultimately decides to join Mario’s party because of his kindness to her when he had no name or body. And her decision to come back after she learns the truth about him still works.
Like nothing about the character redemption has changed. The character still has the same journey. She’s still the same lovable party member she was in 2004. What’s the big deal?
This actually isn’t new… it’s just the original Japanese TRANSlation, it was censored by most other countries though
He said that in the video 🤦🏻♂️
@@IcedCube0310 lok at the capital LETERS
*Seinfeld bass guitar*
She’s my girl
I love her too. My favorite Partner from Paper Mario 2 :D
"He"
@@shriderrad4123 in Japanese not in are contrary
@@shriderrad4123in the Japanese it’s she
@@shriderrad4123 BIGOT😂❤
Wait until people see birdo...
or Crona from the anime Soul Eater
In a nutshell Nintendo did it before it was cool
Yes because Nintendo knows best
@@furkanspider2613 *sometimes*
@@oscarwillimott9296 nah trust me :) (help, I am held at gunpoint by the Nintendo ninjas)
now trans are cool?
It was never cool
I genuinely dont care if Vivian is trans. Vivian is Vivian. Shes a good character either way
Me too.
True
Well said
Facts
Fans of the original game already knew this, even though it was never mentioned in game itself in the US. Other regions still touched on it, and it's not new controversial news. It was actually pretty progressive for the time
In English, it's new
In other languages it's the normal dialogue
People need to grow up and accept that trans people can & will exist, also Vivian was trans in the original japanese version. So her being trans is nothing new.
We let my sister be trans. We loved her regardless. Guess what? She doesn't exist anymore because her mind was poisoned by lies that we all believed were "healthy." That day was when I grew up
Why are people going crazy about this?
Noooo how dare people be themselves
Good thing I rarely have to use it then.
@@Willlowxb23 Gamers (derogatory)
For Hooktail they also changed Cricket to frog if I’m not wrong. I mean smart move who gets poisoned eating crickets
It was actually frogs in the original japanese release too.
I heard it was originally a specific type of frog that only exists in Japan, so when they localized the game to English audiences, they just tried to pick an animal we would've heard of that sounded kinda like the sound effect.
Come to think of it, the sound effect in the GameCube version does sound more like a frog than a cricket
Uh, okay? Why the hell are people mad it's just a game lmao
Do not think that the company supports you, the company wants money and the dirtiest way to earn it is by exploiting people’s issues and problems
I don't care about your gender or your interests, but if you like your case to be exploited by companies, then you are weak
Uh, okay? Why the heck are people okay with that you’re not meant to switch the gender you’re born with lol
@@UltraPlasmaManbro accidentally became supportive
because of the idea that its a retcon. when i didnt know it wasnt a retcon i was kinda uneasy about it feeling like politics (you can claim it isnt but because of us politics nature its become a political topic) were being put into a game 20 years after its releace retconing a character. however now that i realise its not a retcon i dont have an issue with it.
Here's the thing. It's not "new dialog." It's just a correct translation
So heres the thing about transgender and anything LGBTQ in Japan, they don't have a word for it. In the original, they had even less words for it. Otokonoko is a word to basically generalize the queer community, it can mean effeminate (optionally gay) man, trans woman, or simply a cross dresser. It's a word often used by characters who describe people in that position, but there is no distinction between those 3/4 labels under that one word. But through other dialogue, its pretty clear that Vivian is the transgender part of the Otokonoko label
This is an issue Ive been passionate about for awhile. To my knowledge the japanese version has:
The sisters mocking and being transphobic* to vivian multiple times. This was changed to her being mocked for being prettier than them in the english version.
Goombella states explicitly that vivian is male, vivian shows visible discomfort (cries) when referred to as such.
Her little speech at the end of the game focuses on this, thanking mario for accepting her for who she is. (Varies slightly between all versions.)
I hate censorship in media like this, and love to see more trans rep in popular media. I didn't think paper mario ttyd would ever get a remake partially because of this, and when it was announced I thought there was no way they'd ever fix it. Im very happy to be wrong.
*I believe Sticker Star refers to her as an "Otokonoko", which is slightly different from transgender for complicated reasons that don't translate well to other languages, so they are usually localized as the same. This is why the Goombella line didn't make it to certain versions including the remake; in english it would be considered disrespectful to out Vivian, so she gets to reveal that herself. The same doesn't necessarily apply to Otokonoko. If someone has a better understanding of this Im happy to learn more, but the point is she identifies as a woman, she's not a crossdresser and for the sake of our culture she is transgender.
Otokonoto in Japan is basically a mix of a cross dresser and trans female, since the two (and male homosexuality in general) are often conflated. It's really complicated and I'm not japanese so I can't really give good detail.
If I remember correctly, one of the translations said something like "She used to be a man, but now she's a woman and proud of it!"
yeah that was the Italian one
no way people are mad about this.
People got be mad at anything but what's materially hurting them.
Right wing people are always mad about trans representation.
Bigots be bigots
Clout snorting mostly
yes yes yes, they made it cannon in the English versions too! finally
And also in the german version.
But that is literally a single line and everything else stayed the same. You could literally miss it.
@@therethan-family1234 there's another added line early on in chapter 2, but yeah it's pretty low key
For a bit of details, the french version of Beldam in TTYD (gamecube) literally says "What are you talking about ?? You are a BOY." (boy us in red btw.) After Vivian says "Three shadow sisters !".
Vivian, Birdo, Madeline and Bridget all come from some of my favourite games for definitely no reason at all nuh uh nope nuh (transfemme egg panic intensifies…)
For the record I am not a trans egg. I am just transfemme. Today is actually my 4th year on estrogen! :3
In my opinion this is a rare moment of uncensorship
That’s so cute. Vivian is such nice transgender representation.
omori pfp!!!
Omori pfp is appreciated
It's a shadow.
@@GrayLazar a trans one! :3
@@freakyguy5 yeah
Honestly, I don't understand why so many people make things like this such a big thing nowadays. It shouldn't matter what a fictional character's gender is. Just play the game and have fun. 😭
Vivian its cute and lovely, there is no more to argue and just accept it ❤️
Doesn't matter weather or not she's trans, she's the best girl
Im transphobe but not like demonic one but kr blade has the funniest secondary rider
@@professorcraze5559 Yes, Vivian is the best girl.
@@professorcraze5559 *He
"Oh yeah i like-a train choo choo"
that's been known since the early 2000's its not exactly new
Alternatively: She is cis female and Beldam is just that cruel that she viciously bullied her into thinking she was a boy because she refused to let her refer to herself as a sister.
With what limited dialogue we have to work with, it can be interpreted either way. However the fact that Beldam makes a point of shouting at Vivian for referring to the trio as the "Shadow Sisters" on the basis that they should be "The Three Shadows", because "'Sisters' makes us sound less mysterious... and less scary!"
She doesnt say they arent sisters, just thay Vivian is stupid for using a less scary name for the trio.
She even refers to Vivian as being "sappy" for enjoying being referred to us her sister.
So either Beldam is a Bully, or a Transphobe. And I dunno if Nintendo would be up for having an actual transphobic character (even a villain, although she does get redeemed in the ending) in one of their licensed IPs. It seems a bit too heavy for a mario game
Mario is tolerant. He'll accept anyone and anything at face value. He treats anyone and anything with dignity and respect. He has seen too many things in his travels to be narrow-minded.
the italian og had her explicitly trans lol
People are getting pressed over a trans video game character 😭
I'm drinking banana juice on a tropical mug with a straw
Nice
There was a scraped potion shop seller concept in skyward sword where it was a pair of twins. They were both dressed in pretty outfits with one being noted as "wishes he was born a woman" and the other just being born a woman
*New*, hah, yeah right . . .
we couldnt just be happy about a remake??
No, keep that bs away from games
@@dozy3642 It's been there since 2004 tho
@@dozy3642birdo is trans
@@ForestFurgirl06 Birdo is a Dragqueen
@@alfasilverblade nope, in birdos debut game she's referred to as a male then later she was referred to as a female
It’s not “new dialogue” it’s just uncensored as in Japan she was trans. But they censored it in English.
Beldam speech bubble
True true
Are we REALLY still getting so hung up on this issue almost a quarter of the way through the 21st century?! Our species has grown from eating fleas off each other's butts to splitting the atom and walking on the moon! What the actual fluff?! We have watched our planet grow old; isn't it high time we, as a species, finally GREW UP?!?🤯 Love is Love in any shape or form, and both a desperate need and inalienable right of EVERY living thing! Is that pure and simple truth really so hard to accept and honor...?!🥺💔
I totally agree with you. Kinda hope your comment will remain the top comment
Like a certain spiteful god once said "Mortals keep making the same mistakes and never learn"
Very true and well said! Thank you so much
W mans
"Oh no, a trans in my game!? Gross!"
It's just a bloody game. Who cares if a character in game is trans, nonbinary, or anything around that regard. I personally don't give a damn, I just want to play a game where I fight wacky characters and enjoy it.
Side note: I'm purely expressing my thoughts on this topic, in case someone thinks otherwise for some stupid reason.
Vivian was always Trans in the original Japanese version. It got censored on US Markets and Europe.
Only German translation IIRC, the rest go pretty hard on the trans
Respect, I want the original dialogue, even if I may not like it. (I mean that generally, not specifically here)
I mean cross dressing does commonly lead to trans awakenings
SMASH! What's next?
Smash ether way
Whoa, HOLD UP 🤨📸
Fellas, is IT *G A Y* -
LMAO
I'm agree
based
I played the old paper, mario, religiously, and vivian was always my favorite, so I see vivan as her since I was using the western version it's crazy how 20 years something originally not accepted at all is widely accepted today
Cant be controversial if it was done in 2004! Seriously we can’t just change what was already established, sorry most English players didn’t do their research unlike you did. Besides most (OG) Paper Mario fans accept that Vivian is trans, sorry the new Mario fans cant accept what we did 20 years ago.
they were always Trans tho
We stan trans representation
I mean they have been doing that since SMB2 cause Birdo is also Trans
@@agilecandle428 Exactly
We still stan trans representation
We stan trans rep, even when it's retconned! (though as someone else stated, Birdo is actually trans, and not just a femboy like Vivian).
@@schorltourmaline4521Beldam speech bubble
@@schorltourmaline4521how can someone be female and a femboy at the same time?
Im buying the switch remake just for that
Doesn't matter I still love Vivian, she's an awesome character and super cute ❤
Hooktail is also a female but was not really referred to as female in the american version outside of like one instance
well, there goes Undertale red and yellow.
He grew out of that phase. Happens to the best of us.
Haha sorry, I'm burnt out on Undertale, but I'm sure I'll return at some point for Deltarune Ch1 and later Ch2 before Ch3's release
@@GaroShadowscale yay I can’t wait for deltarune
@@RouxlsKaardOfficial I guess so
Wasn't Vivian always presented as trans in the original Japanese version of the game? 🤔🤔
Vivian being trans isn't exactly *new* information to a lot of Mario fans who are aware of what the original Japanese game is **supposed** to be translated to, the original English translation of the game just chose to intentionally censor it.
I was concerned before about how'd they'd handle it in the remake, but sounds like they did it right
A better explanation for Japanese (since meta text at the time could not be trusted but culturally does in fact reference Vivian's trans identity but that's a whole other story) is that she calls her group the "Shadow Sisters" which is immediately followed up by Beldam calling her a man.
Now, in the Switch's Japanese, she at one point says "I may have the body of a man, but my heart is a cute girl's!". All localizations of the scene where Beldam berates Vivian are now gender-neutral, saying "Shadow Trio" or "Three Shadows" because "'Shadow Sisters' isn't as menacing".
It was never Shadow Sisters. It was Shadow Sirens, which definitely sounded way cooler.
I have no problem with the change frankly as it doesn’t remove much from the character
It adds to the character more
@@MicahMotion exactly
In French it's the exact opposite. She was actually trans back on GameCube and now she isn't anymore, or at least it's not explicit
Im trans too
In the japanese original version, it's pretty much discussed that she is trans: it starts right before the first shadows sirens fight where they introduce themselves and Vivian accidentally calls them "3 shadow sisters" instead of "shadow trio", to which Beldam responds with "how are we 3 sisters?!? You're a boy aren't you?" (JP: どうが三姉妹だよ あんた、オトコじゃないかい！！！！！！！). When Vivian joins the team, she states "I have the body of a boy, but inside my heart, I'm a cute girl" (JP: それにじつはアタイ。。。体はオトコのコだけど、ココロはカワイイオンナのコなの).
Vivian is a shadow sister, there was a typo error, in the Japanese versions and regardless of what people say, proof and evidence shows she is a woman (Shadow sister) a spawn of the Shadow Queen's creation. She has a passionate love for Mario, and most characters at some point even mention shes a girl including beldam.
Happy that it’s being represented in the remake
I played all of the Poshley Height’s chapter with Vivian because my girl deserved that all inclusive 3 day train ride after what she’s been through.
Very interesting 😁
Thanks
@@GaroShadowscale your welcome 😁👍
How exactly does a Shadow that only wears a hat and gloves cross dress?
Honestly this just makes me like this character more, glad to see some reputation
Oh my god a ghost, call Luigi
shadow not ghost
In the italian gamecube version her partner description says "... she used to be a man but now she's a woman and she's proud ..." or something aling the lines of that, so it's not hiding the fact that she's trans at all
I'm French and it seemed obvious to me, I didn't know it was censored in other versions!
It kills me when "current year" people lose their mind over stuff they used to play as kids but overlooked the details back then, but call it "woke, controversial" today. Vivian was bullied by her sisters, was mocked about how different she was and how her sisters don't see her as their real sister. For people not in the know, okay benefit of the doubt. But looking at the dialog and researching the character in the early 2000's to 2010's to affirm how she is trans hurts my heart.
The same thing happened when people realized the character Poison was developed to combat the "violence against women" talks, cause assaulting trans women is socially accepted. Or how Bridget wasn't a mentally confused cross dressing "trap".
i don't understand why they care like, it's a game, leave the characters alone.
Beyond their goal of genocide of us? There is no reason at all
I don't care that gender she is.
I still will love her anyway❤
Def was trans back then
Actually would be considered otokonoko
@@SnipingIsFuncope
@@SnipingIsFunbeldam speech bubble
I knew that Vivian was trens that is the details that make her/him my fav character/partner in paper Mario ttyd
Good for her
Japanese context: Vivian is an 男の娘 (otoko no ko), which has the kanji for “boy” and “daughter.”
In anime/manga fandom, these characters are commonly referred to as “traps,” which is distinct from transgender. In fact, calling a transgender person a trap is derogatory.
The difference between 男の娘 and transgender people is that 男の娘 are males who, whether unintentionally or intentionally, present themselves as women. Transgender people have the opposite gender of their sex.
For 男の娘, it has nothing to do with body dysmorphia or believing they are in the wrong bodies. They are males who often love cute and feminine things and almost always present themselves as such.
Third-person pronouns don’t exist in Japanese, but we do use first-person pronouns based on gender. 男の娘 use either gender-neutral pronouns (boku, which is used by young boys or tomboy girls/women) or feminine pronouns (atashi, atai, etc). Vivian uses atai.
By the way, when people say, “kareshi,” “yatsu,” or “kanojo” are third-person pronouns that we use, I mean, yeah. Technically.
But we usually use them for people we aren’t associated with or don’t know.
It would be weird to go up to a stranger, ask them their pronouns without asking their names first, and then go “yeah, that guy over there…”
When Bildam calls Vivian a boy in the original game, that doesn’t upset Vivian. Vivian was upset that they can’t be sisters because Vivian is a boy.
Like, why can’t a boy be a sister?
@JoshSJoshingWithYa I'm going to go with the other Japanese people.
Especially when trans people are often referred to as traps as memes tend to be a sludge hammer not a scalpel
Im not transphobic but vivian is and will always be full female in my opinion.
Yes that's right! Even though she's trans she's full female ❤️ 🏳️⚧️
If nintendo do it BEFORE, it's ok because they didn't change it to be more """actual"""
She was trans in the original japanese version though
Brother in any version of the original game apart from the us release it was said they were trans
People try to say she’s a crossdresser because of the party description and how others refer her disregarding how Vivian presents and calls herself which is a woman and sister
Which otokonoko's do, yes.
@@Badgerpawif that’s true what’s the difference between a trans girl and an otokonoko?
@@Badgerpaw hun if they do theyre not "traps" at that point
fixed translation
Can we not just have nice things, can we not just have one positive trans rep without people getting angry about it
I didn't play the original. garoThink
I have no problem if Vivian is trans. I find them interesting and nice all the same garoPog 🤗💗👌🏽🐉
Awesome
That original description of Vivian just makes it seem like they’re a femboy rather than trans
girl we been knew
Based Nintendo? (Still wish the remake was cheaper)
As a trans woman, I'm happy to get represented in the Mario series. Idk why people are complaining
Vivian is a ghost do ghosts technically have genders
Yeah
Yes....honestly depends on the franchise the ghost is from, but in Paper Mario's Case Yes
I was joking
The same thing happened in Spanish, I played the game in Spanish because it is my native language and I didn't like certain details of the new translation, not because Vivian is Trans, it is more faithful to the original language like that, but rather because of other aspects, such as the format in which Vivian's sisters pick on her for being "ugly" and not because she is Trans, since that would be "promoting transphobia" when what it really does is show a real problem and how it should be faced (there are people who don't accepts you for who you are, and you should stay away from them even when they are family), or the Goombas who tried to flirt in a sexist and disgusting way with Goombella, in the original game Goombella humiliates them and defends herself by showing that she is a strong character and showing to the Goombas as the pathetic ones that they are, in the translation they removed this because "it was very sexist" and they made the Goombas bother Mario and Goombella defends him, the original dialogue showed how strong Goombella is, the new one seems very stupid to me, as if Mario needed someone to defend him
Turns out Paper Mario was ahead of its time on LGBTQ+ representation.
Pretty much, yeah.
It just really makes me happy that Vivian is trans, and even though it does have relevancy to her character it’s not a huge deal to the plot. Trans or not, she’s in a bad situation with her family and chooses to switch sides and work with Mario. Her identity just adds more to her character and implies a life outside the story, which is nice. Our transness doesn’t have to be something we brand ourselves with, we can simply exist as we are and be casually proud.