Forgestar F14 Failure at Buttonwillow
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- Left front wheel failure, midcorner on Riverside at Buttonwillow Raceway!
2007 Honda S2000, intake/exhaust, aero
Wheel is a Forgestar F14, 17x10 +55. 14 track days total on various Southern California tracks. 6 days on Hankook RS3, 6 days on R888, and the last two days were on Bridgestone RE71R (which were giving me noticeably higher lateral loads).
Prior to my first day on RE71Rs, there were no visible cracks on the exterior of the spokes. I lazily ran my hand along the backside of the spokes, but obviously missed, well, a lot of cracks. The spoke that was cracked clean-through on the right-rear either cracked at that event (WSIR) or during this event at Buttonwillow. The front left may also have had a complete crack prior to or during the Buttonwillow event.
All wheels are eventually prone to this sort of failure, but some sooner than others. More comprehensive data on these wheels is available here: www.s2ki.com/s2....
Also, if you want a chassis-mount wing for your S2000 that enables you to apparently drive the wheels off your car, let me know here: www.cgtechnic.com
UPDATE, 2014-04-16:
I've put together a sort of debrief on this incident at S2ki, the permalink is right here!
www.s2ki.com/s2...
"There are 14 track days on this set of wheels"
That's why they are called F14s don't you get it ? For 14 days
lmao
😂😂😅
Yup, the takeaway here is to inspect wheels regularly, even in the places that are hard to see. Forgestar actually got a hold of me and are offering a refund on the wheels and are going to buy me a replacement balljoint. They're going to take a look at the remaining wheels and do some analysis.
+Chris Wiita refund and balljoint, thats it!?!? LOL
+Chris Wiita did you ever recover the rest of the wheel/tire?
+Albert Han Its racing. He's lucky he is getting anything at all. I've had tires blow up because tire manufactures can't make a superbike tire that can spin and get hot. they'd expand and touch the swing arm and blow up, destroying your bike and they didn't give a fuck. your fault.
+Chris Wiita Sucks man, but this has made me think otherwise of purchasing their wheels. Might as well save another 1000$ more and get Volks/Works.
+ironmb86 There are many people out there that track these wheels including myself and many companies use flow forming technology without any issues, but like electronics sometimes there is failures. Ive personally have seen many "expensive" higher end forged and flow form wheels have failures its just the nature of the beast when you're putting stress on wheels and cars. Atleast forgestar stood up and are refunding him money and taking care of the balljoint.
After hearing that Forgestar is willing to refund you and pay for some other damages I won't hesitate to buy a set of their wheels in the future if thats what I want. Good customer service is everything, glad you got taken care of
+Ben Dover only because this video is spreading.
+alfred rodriguez Yeah, if he didn't upload this video, and asked forgestar a refund, I reckon they wouldn't even reply to his email.
alfred rodriguez ***** you can't say that with complete certainty. Regardless, they are holding up their end of the deal and thats worth something to customers
+Ben Dover True. But I also experienced this issue firsthand. More than once, when a part fails on me, I contact the manufacturer and they seem to not help at all. Once I go to review sites and write a little paragraph about them, they will contact me again to fix the problem.
perhaps you should look up forgestar issues. the company did not want to replace wheels that were showing cracks.
man...imagine if you were in the canyons.
+Themayseffect rip
Dead laughing guy at that moment. What a dangerous wheel to buy !
Best reaction ever to crashing!
Until you see Colin mcrae roll at the xgames
Your reaction is priceless!
+AMBush Drift
hey alan waht up
AMBush Drift because he was on camera. Good thing he's safe
You're much calmer than I would ever be. Good control!
This is such a badass video lol. Love the positivity made me smile. So glad forgestar took care of you!!
Thaitan94 it’s very rare that they take care of customers. According to their head of sales, the warranty ends as soon as they are mounted on tires. Great company haha
I heard your car went next out into the neighbors farm property, but after watching this video, it didn't look like you went far out like it did from the pits, hope there was no extensive damage to your car or the property. I spoke to your buddy with the E30, he seemed worried about your car but I did not expect the reaction in this video. Thumbs up for the positive attitude and all that safety gear. Hope you're able to race soon!
Sir, your reaction is priceless.
Very good video with a pleasant presentation. Many thanks for the effort which you put into making this.
That forgestar went on to put a dislike on your video..
Cant tell if dude, or girl on steroids
I was saying the same
+Hiroheeto His voice is strange enough
TranceFur he sounds like a fucking girl. You must be deaf.
+Hiroheeto I am a meat popsicle.
Same.
lmao! by far the best reaction I've seen to a crash. I would've lost it! thanks for sharing!
Not the reaction i was expecting lol! You literally drove the wheels off that thing! You're a beast man, keep bangin gears!
Glad you're ok! And I'm glad I never bought Forgestars when I was given the opportunity at a great deal. Amazing reaction BTW. I laughed and cried at the same time.
right before the wheel comes off, you can see a mustang crash into him. Have to slow down the video to see it, but its there.
I think we have a different definition of awesome
how surreal was it driving one direction and watching your tire go off in another direction? Great attitude about the whole thing.
Vibrations from the failing wheel are audible and visible on the video... I don't know how it felt driving but you should have been able to feel it and slow down. I freak out at the slightest sound in my car. But then I don't know if I'm just seeing vibration from the uneven road surface. Check between 0:45 to 0:52
+Sanjuro Makabe That section of buttonwillow is a bit uneven. He's also clipping the curb at T10, as most drivers do. See 0:08 to 0:11
You drove the wheels off it !
This is so fucking trippy I've never seen that before where every spoke had a failure. So bizarre. Nice to see the off track excursion wasn't a total catastrophe
Yep that VTEC will rip them wheels right off the dam car
Glad you weren't hurt, good attitude !
Take it in stride... I'm sure you were pissed but kudos for how you reacted
And this isnt even a heavy car, pretty crazy. How stiff of a setup did you have though? Probably quite a bit stiffer suspension than stock I would assume.
Forgestar is actually a great company that stand behind their product, I have 2 sets of them and never had a problem. HOWEVER I also don't track my car on a regular basis. I have seen VERY expensive wheels crack on tracks and very cheap wheels hold up...or vice versa. People complaining that forgestar is a crap product probably have not done a ton of racing...shit breaks, you fix it and go on. Track is hard on every mechanical aspect of your car...just think about your bearings, wheels, and everything else everytime you hit the apex of a corner..might as well be hitting at pothole at that speed.
We have the same seat and harness set up haha and so that was your car sitting out there for half the day?? I was wondering what what it was doing out there, glad you're ok!
+camcuber They're great seats!
that WAS awesome! glad it wasn't too bad.
Props for keeping your cool during the entire situation.
The Driver's Perspective because he was on camera. Lol
OMG, my F30 335i has F14s, did you call Forgestar and what did they say about this?
Low pressure cast centers with flow form forged barrels.. Forgestar make good wheels and this is unfortunate. I'm surprised this happened. Note to self, check my Apex wheels before my next track day...
I tried to buy wheels from this company a few years ago for my Audi.
I paid in full and got a huge runaround from the online pace I purchased and from the manufacture.
After months past when they would be made I called my CC company and disputed the charge and got all my money back. Bought a nice set of BBS instead.
LMAO, so THAT'S what happened! hahahaha oh man, you made me laugh super hard at my desk just now, now everyone's looking at me like....wtf? hahaha Damn, though, I'm seriously glad you weren't hurt at all though! Coulda been REAL bad! I was wondering how to ask you at the track if that was your car chilling out there at Riverside, haha But I'm glad you thoroughly inspected the rest of the wheels and found them to be unsatisfactory as well. 14 track days are alot, but still, lesson learned, time to get some RPF1's? haha jk See you out there soon my friend! :D
Be safe, fellow s2k owner. Good seeing you on the boards (and Facebook) :)
+TofuProductionCinema Thanks!
what a reality check i will inspect mine for sure now.. luckly you are fine and the car seems to have only light damage
Thanks for posting this
Nice recovery, glad it wasn't more serious. However, that's a valuable lesson on why NOT to black powdercoat your wheels. Keep them clean, inspect them often! Don't ignore signs that 'just don't look quite right.' I have a set of fronts for my Viper that have stress cracks in almost the same spot. I got warranty replacements before crashing.
+Dean Word Down powdercoat aluminium wheels to begin with. Powdercoating is what anneals the metal and causes fractures. Colors don't really have anything to do with your wheels breaking or staying together. Buy a set of wheels that are tested well. That's it. TUV is bulletproof.
+vidurc Foregstar wheels are TUV stamped. They are also powdercoated form the factory, as the process generally doesn't make a difference on a cast wheel like Forgestars. Complete history of these wheels are my s2ki thread (link in description) edit:// sorry, not TUV stamp, just JWL/DOT
Chris Wiita don't know where you got that info from. TUV isn't a stamp it's a certification. The wheels are certified after 10 sets are sent to be tested and a certification is then issued for that particular set of wheels for a particular car.
A lot of companies claim they are tuv approved when their facility conforms to tuv standards. That does not mean the wheels are tuv approved. Forgestar have never been approved. www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=301996&page=13
Forgestar has never conformed and have claimed to conform to a different standard that is not the tuv. Powder coating as a process ALWAYS affects wheels unless it is baked at a colder temp. Aluminium wheels are anodized typically.
Did anyone else think it was a female driver for at least the first 90 seconds of the video?
Perfect reaction!!!
thank you for this video. I believe I will inspect my tires and wheels more often.
Other people when seeing their wheels go: "That's awesome".
Me when hearing a strange noise in the car: "Oh...guess it will be ramen this week"
For the thousands of cars running forgestars this is the first instance I've seen.
Can't say don't buy a brand cause this one car... with no back story known.. as far as how they were driving/(street use too) proper tire load rating and if the wheels were torqued properly...
Or if they had changed color of the wheel..(re powdercoated)
To many variables to go bash a brand...
Sad it happend.. but ide still buy them over a rep any day of week
Katie's point is entirely valid. I think it's pretty clear that the point of this video is to remind people to check their equipment, not to blame the mfr for a certain condition they may or may not be responsible for. You race stuff, you break stuff. So check your equipment and replace it when needed.
+Katie Porter I too agree with Katie. I race three different sanctioning bodies in a car heavier and faster than an S2000 and my F14s over the years have performed well on the stickiest race tires available. I have cracked a few wheels in my time on three different brands and I can trace all the cracks to running the wheel at least once when not properly torqued.
+Katie Porter Yup, there's never one simple explanation. My s2ki thread has a breakdown of my usage for these particular wheels.
Katie Porter: with all due respect, Forged means, "copied fraudulently, faked". Why would English speaking people would buy these rims if it literally means "fakestar" I'd buy the legit ones. Just saying :)
In this instance the use of "forge" is not by that definition.
Forgestar owned by Weld who was acquired by American Racing which was acquired Platinum Equity then acquired by Amentum.
I'll stay oem for now.
Wow, hahaha, you had a much more tamer reaction than I would have to that situation, lol. I saw your car parked way out in the middle of BFE and wondered what happened! Glad your car came out mostly unscathed.
+redpriest26 Thanks!
Looks to left and sees front tire flying away... OH OKAY
gotta love the guys attitude
Dude that sucks but your s2000 looks dope!
It's actually a poor spoke design. All cracks began at the same narrowest corner. It's pretty apparent that zero FEA was completed for this rim, which would of caught this glaring flaw.
That's hilarious! Its in another country! Glad your ok and nothing happened. Especially at the riverside, you were going pretty fast. Time to get some weds/volks
Was this an older set of Forgestars? I thought I heard they made these stronger within the past few years...
I hear the Rota hate-train coming lol.
That is truly too bad about the wheel failure.
Reminds me of when a huge plate of steel that wasn’t strapped down in some dudes truck flew out and hit my car on the freeway. Smashed the windshield and just flew. My response as I walked up to the driver was “did you see that, it was f’ing awesome”. This was back in college in a beater. The drivers response was not as funny, he was more concerned about his load. He’s lucky he didn’t kill new a-hole. For whatever reason I just had this attitude during the moment like I just experienced something crazy and was appreciative at life for some reason. Thinking back it kinda bothers me, but what a strange reaction to just be positive.
Why are you not still making vids? Looks like a good channel Chris :-)
Not racing my car. But after this video. I'll ne ordering my rims tomorrow
Wow I was there this day in another group and remember this happening. Hope all is ok now.
I was considering buying these since they're so popular among the E92 platform, but after seeing this I'm staying far away. I can't believe the ignorance of people below saying that they trust them "because they offer a refund on the wheels." I'm extremely happy that you didn't get hurt from the accident; if you're going to make a high quality mono block wheel than at least test it for track use like this. We gotta put an end to this fake wheel shit, part of the reasons I've only ever bought work or enkeis. And for you rotifer fanboys, they do the same shit.
Rip. It’s that these full forged wheels get so pricey
U think this could happen in every day use or just street racing ?
Can you provide more information in the wheels like when you bought them? Forgestar had several failures of early models due to load ratings. They claimed to have since rectified that. I broke a forgestar wheel exactly like that at Nasa Nationals in 2014. Even those were fine until I put full slicks on them. They were an early version though. Oddly enough the only reason I bought more is because a competitor had the exact same thing happen to him and got uodated models. I have 2 sets of the updated versions now, no issues.
Check out the s2ki.com link in the description for more details about these particular wheels. I got them in early 2014.
+Chris Wiita I think something was wrong with that set of wheels. Maybe they had the old versions laying around and snuck them in there to be cheap (which obviously isnt good). But cracking on the type of tires you run is obsurdly weak. I have 1.5 seasons on A6's/7's and plenty of vettes with multiple seasons, some of which on full slicks. My early model wheel cracked literally after 1 hard corner on slicks, although I had run them for over a year on A6's. To have them crack so soon on such a light car with the limited load of R-comps means something is awry. I hope they didn't go back to making the old weak versions of the wheels. I also order mine raw and paint them myself using duplicolor wheel paint.
+dez white The 17" version of the F14 only just came out in early 2014, so I think Chris' wheels had to be current production (at the time). Good call on ordering them raw to paint yourself... way easier to inspect the wheels with a thin coat of spray paint rather than thick powdercoat
+dez white I remember the older ones had lower load ratings, then they switched to the higher load ratings and the wheels gained a bit of weight in the process. I bought mine in early 2012 and they're the higher rated ones. 18x8.5 and I forget the offsets, but two with lower offset weigh 21 lbs and the other two weigh 20 lbs. Hope mine hold up.
you gota be carefull with thoes types of wheels, they might be flow formed but if the way they are initially cast sucks, the entire wheel blows, look for low pressure cast or high pressure cast rims, unless they specify that then theyre gravity cast witch have alot of air bubbles in the rims, leading to cracks
And I was planning to save up for some Forgestar wheels. Not anymore.
mrjjthor save up for Japanese brand wheels like Rays, Enkei.
THAT REACTION! Bwahahahahahahaaa!
Great reaction, although I'll not be buying Forgestar's anytime soon
This is clearly an inexperienced driver. A driver that knows their car would of notice something wrong when the car started to vibrate on right turns. Slowed down an headed for the pits.
are you going to contact forgestar about this failure?
I crashed! AWESOME!
How do you mount your phone on the dash like that?
I highly recommend SRS wheels. More than Toyo. I ran them on my Z for 10 years, no problems
+Brass 'n Barrels Firearms Channel more than Toyo? as in Toyo... wheels? I don't understand your comment
i meant yokohama
More probably due to jumping the Bus Stop rut, than Riverside.
+Chad Plavan then why are all the wheels on the right side of the car cracked too?
you got what you paid. Other people saying that ROTA wheels are bad.
Was thinking about getting some for my vette but now I guess I just have to spend more and get some forgeline. That’s not cool
what was your tire profile. I can only assume with a 17x10 you had to sacrifice a bit of sidewall to get those to fit.
+Themayseffect They're 255/40-17
Chris Wiita
That seems better suited for a 9 or 9 1/2 wheel, certainly for track use. Looking through your other videos, you beat on these pretty bad. Its hard to blame Forgestar for such rough treatment. Given the info you posted on your forum, seems like they did try to help out though, so good on them.
why is that in the video I can only see the tire and not the alloy running away??
Because only the rim and a few inches of the spokes are attached to the tire, from 100ft away the tire dominates the image.
+83RBurke thanks a lot, this makes sense
I like your armrest setup 😀
Jessie voice from fast & furious.....(was that fun) 😂😂😂😂I would of been mad af and this guy keeps his coo...
What was your camber set to?
Did Forgestar say anything about this? I’m considering some M14s and now I’m concerned
They never followed up with any failure analysis themselves, but if you read through the s2ki thread, we determined that at some point they thickened the spokes significantly (on the 17in wheels). Others have been tracking the thick-spoke versions and I haven't heard of a failure on those. Also, I haven't seen an equally publicized failure on larger diameter F14s--it may just be that someone fat-fingered some FEA when they developed the 17 inch versions and larger diameter versions have always had comfortable margin. If you're looking at an application that a lot of other people are running (similar diameter, width, tire grip, vehicle weight, level of abuse) and there hasn't been any documented failures...probably pretty safe?
Chris Wiita thanks for the reply! Really does seem like an unfortunate case of a defect and from what I’ve seen they’ve been active in rectifying the issues. I’m looking at a 19x11 and 19x12 M14 fitment for my 1LE, similar to the ZL1 1LE fitment so I’m hoping they’re good. The M14 appears to have a rotary forged face as opposed to a cast face seen with most flow forged wheels. But I’ll definitely take heed of this video and even check my OE “forged” wheels before track/autocross days 🙌🏽
Did you ever find the rest of the wheel?
+ZeeKay Some say that tire is still rolling to this day.
+ZeeKay Nah--probably never will. It rained very hard the night of the incident, I'm sure it's buried in silt. It'll make some archaeologist's day 1000 years from now though.
They test rims for 500000 cycles only. It is about 1000 miles. Aluminum endurance limit is very low and starts at some 5000000 cycles. It means that after 1000 miles the strength of the rim can reduce for 4 times
Forgestar or CAST??????????
👍👍 lesson learned
wow!!
Forged wheels dont do this. That wheel is cast. Putting "forged" in the name unfortunately doesn't help with strength and metal fatigue.
damnnn
You literally drove the wheels off that s2000.
the wheel's vtec kicked in...
kHaYdAeRiN it kicked off the body lol
Wow I will keep my rpf1
Puny little wheels can't handle the force of VTEC !
What did you really expect from forgestar
+J Well, there's a pretty low signal to noise ratio on the internet in general, so I didn't really have any expectations from what information I could gather from forum posts prior to ordering. They were the only 17x10 wheels with high offset available when I bought them, and others have run the same style wheel on much heavier cars with stickier tires. Every particularly situation is unique--I've done my best in my s2ki thread (link in description) to describe my experience!
Holy shat !
Shit I was looking to get a set of CF5's. Now fuck that.
It wouldnt be awesome if he was in in some canyon somewhere
Believe me, if the harness jammed your junk, you would be talking in a slightly higher voice for 90 seconds too!
Forgestar just filed for bankruptcy last month bc of this video
no they didnt stfu
Hahahah i have no clue. I never heard of forgestar before
i like your cool attitude bud
Nice work haha
Manonastick: because he was on camera.
there are 18 dislikes from Forgestar. lmao!
That's some poor quality manufacturing right there...
very ´´safe´´ wheels :) but at least you is ok :)