-let Devastation evokers to cast deep breath twice.. as its exclusive.. im basically saying a Devastation should have a build around deep breath.. (like the raid boss has) -Buff Pyra (aoe fire) builds lowering the charge to 2 orbs instead of 3.. buff the chance to shoot out another Pyra chance to 50% instead of 35%.. -Buff fire storm by 10-25% damage so its used more.. -Add a talent that makes it so Living flame has a 50% chance to shoot more then 2 projectiles when targeting hostiles.. -Living flame when targeting hostiles increased haste by 50%.. -Talent based on shadowflame that makes living flame unable to heal allies anymore but deals 25% more damage.. Devastation exclusive.. -Let Devastation evokers use pole arms... that's how I would buff Devastation evoker.. @preheat
I think Blizz should just accept that they have added a whole new role to the game and commit to adding more supports as quickly as possible to give players more options when it comes to which support they bring, otherwise just rework Aug into a full on dps spec.
New issue then. You now forever remove 1/3 of the available slots for DPS in dungeons. You're forcing then dps players to play support, just to be able to do dungeons.
@@nitomurray6137 in 20+ keys I am pretty sure that is already the case with Aug rn, I mean they could do better to balance Aug fs but that is kind of already happening
@@nitomurray6137 perhaps but a great many are now playing support, I don't think they would struggle to get a third of dps players into a support role if more were added. I do think part of the fail here is a support role with a dps label, they need to either remove the support role or add it in fully so tank, heal, support and dps.
I submitted a suggestion in game last week addressing this issue since there is no reason to bring an Aug and a Dev when you can bring an Aug plus another class so you get another group buff. Even Warcraft Logs raid stats are showing Aug does both more damage and brings more survivability than Dev. I switched to Aug for Magmorax because logs were showing a 10k gap in damage between Aug and Dev! I decided to swap over mid-raid without the perfect itemization (no re-gemming, re-crafting, or re-enchanting). I had less than 7k mastery, while our two dedicated Augs had around 9k mastery. But I estimate I still did 5k more DPS as unoptimized Aug than fully optimized Devastation. Dev also now falls lower on PI priority than Affliction, so unless you have an abundance of priests in raid or no Unholy DK, Demo Warlock, or Aff Warlock, Dev is likely not getting PI, which further widens the damage gap between Aug and Dev.
The deva nerf is not a small nerf actually. The single target suffered a very slight dps loss, but the AoE is basicly dead if you have no CDs. Overall the nerf hit hardar, the harder you built on mastery.
It’s not as hard of a fix as folks think. Augmentation doesn’t have a dmg upper threshold. Other dps do. If I add more mobs - the damage doesn’t scale linearly for say a fire mage. It decays as you get more and more mobs. With Augmentation they need to implement a similar dmg cap ( so the more damage a pair of dps do- eventually the ebon might buff decays to zero). This would be similar to how glimmer works for hpal.
Some possibilities: 1) Make Aug only buff DPS classes & parse down the group utility to be in line with most other DPS (acknowledging that there is also a utility imbalance across other dps as well). It is a DPS support that should only support DPS doing DPS. 2) Nerf Aug into the ground and make it a troll spec 3) Leave Aug as is and it is now. It is BIS for all high keys until another support spec is added. Now we have even more people clogging up the DPS roll making group finding even more difficult.
I started the expansion as Evoker Dev, then switch to Preservation to help into raid and it was cool to switch what is need it dps or heal, when Aug came out, I swap and now Is the noly spect I'm allow to play hahaha, it because it really makes the difference, it's crazy how ppl invite to high keys just for been Aug, that never happened to Dev at all xD
Adding more utility/survivability for Dev would go a long way making it more "playable" for keys. If there are other specs with more damage and more utility than Dev, is normal that people don't feel inclined to bring it to key pushing (if you kick dev players and demand aug in 20 or less keys, you just want to be carried). Other specs suffer from it, not just Dev. It just feels particularly bad for them because you have the ability to actually open your spec window and just change it, and considering how bad secondary stats are for Aug, gearing is not actually such an issue. I think the Dev/Aug comparison debate is a trap for both specs. Aug is a SUPPORT. just because it uses a dps slot (since it is the only "disposable" slot they could pick), it shouldn't be compared to a DPS, IMO. Dev's issues come from way before Aug was a thing. As you've mentioned, the threat issue, the survivability issue, etc. All of these were here before Aug and are STILL here. Fixing these would go a long way to making Dev feel better, because, in the end, it's just another dps spec. If Dev has good survivability and bring good (not necessarily the BEST) damage, it CAN be brought to keys. The "God Comp" issue came not just from Aug being busted, but also how strong the other specs were. Mage just got reworked, so it was "expected" that it would either come out broken or weak as hell. HARDLY a spec come out of a rework "balanced". SPriests get reworked every patch or so as well. Hpally got reworked. You get the idea. The problem with Aug's logs is that people tend to think that "yo, Aug's doing great damage". When it's not Aug that is doing great damage. Aug allows OTHER SPECS to do great damage. You can and should make sure that it doesn't look like "top dps spec does 100k damage, but Aug contributes a total of 150k damage on logs". It should be somewhat balanced, but Aug depends directly on other people doing the damage for you. If your comp sucks or doesn't get as much benefits from Aug as other comps, you don't get a lot of saying in that as the Aug player. You can control, realistically, 2 out of 4 Ebon Might buffs through Prescience. The other 2 depends on people standing near you or you standing near them. Not a thing for 99% of the player base to actually manage that. If you play Overwatch, the closest comparison I can think for Aug is Lucio's speed boost. Its power comes directly from how good the rest of the team is in playing around it. But give it to a non-optimal group, then suddenly it doesn't feel as strong. SUPPORT role is a staple that makes everything smoother, not Aug per se. Add 1 or 2 more SUPPORT specs and legit make a support 4th ROLE (like tank/dps/healer), and suddenly Aug's "issues" become just the new way of how the group composition in the game works, IMO.
If I were to make a fundamental change to augmentation, I would redesign the black/bronze attunement (or remove them and replace with something else) and the talent associated with the attunements.
The only way I see this being fixed is to change group size. If you go to 6 you have 3 dps spots which is needed simply because 70%+ of the player base is dps. By further limiting dps spots it has made M+ more elitist than it already was. This would allow groups to have 4 dps spots with one support spec per group max. This would also allow a ton more class diversity.
I felt that supports should fit in as a healer. not a dps. tank/sup/3dps or tank/heal/3dps. yet here we are. dumbass blizzard wants to make support a dps and it's going oh so well.
I understand how on point Preheat assessment of the class is, but the one factor that is hard to quantify is how well people use the buff from AUG once they get it. Basically if blizz steps in an micromanage the benefit of the buff it will turn similar to how Bard is in FF14 now. Basically in FF14 Bard would give massive benefits to the group and their personal dmg was subpar compared to other dps; same as the concern pre-heat has mentioned the FF devs though it was to much so they nerf the buffs so much that they are basically useless at this point. In addition, since bard has always worked like that they have not been able to buff their personal dmg enough to compensate which resulted in Bard being dropped and not played since there was better options that using a subpar spec. In my opinion that is what will happen to AUG Evoker if they nerf the buff to much. TLDR is that if they keep nerfing AUG Evoker to the point the buff are minimal they will go from mandatory to never played. They just introduced a spec that does not work well with the trinity they had establish for years, so is either going to be extremely good (which im personally ok with) or unplayable.
Augmentation should just be a healer spec. Or either make their dps less that of a tank. Another thing they could do is to have an "empowerment" that focuses on either tank/dps/healers that gives that x person significant amount more stats or procs w/e and everyone else is reduced significantly.
IMO, if this is supposed to be a DPS support class, then it should be just that, focused on dps. By trying to add a little bit of everything it makes it, as you had mentioned, just better overall than devastation . You're not just being a DPS force multiplier, but also now are responsible for helping to reduce threat, help the tank, add stamina....why? It should just be helping to DPS and maybe like movement speed/utility, which would be helpful but not as solidly necessary. They should take all the stamina, survivability, etc and maybe add another support role but healer based. Kind of like Disc but less of a barrier profile and more number based.
Then, they could add other support specs to classes that focus on tank or healing. Give a choice on which and how many, though, maybe combine tank and heal support, as a pure tank support would have very limited vacancy. I think one shouldn't limit their class to just a spec and try to learn all roles of your class. You will never feel like there's no vacancy for you.
the solution unfortunately is more aug-like specs to compete with it. It's at this point a new role, and the only one who can fill it is aug. Im ok with the new role, but not that only one spec fills it.
I know that it doesn't really work, since it would take a while for them to make more, but I would honestly love this. I said it on the previous upload of this video, but I main buffers/enchanters in every game. Augmentation is a spec I thought I would never get in WoW. And I really love it and I hope they won't just make it useless or turn it into a normal dps class. So I hope they figure something out on how to make supports viable.
Yep. As you , I’m loving augvoker but what make me start this expansion as a evoker was DeV . Now , every time im trying to play it im not allowed or people say they only invit me for been augvoker
If they nerf the spec they need to only do it toward keys dont ruin the support spec in everything cuz people are crying they're not getting invited to keys!
Blizzard took pre-dragonflight windwalking and gave it to augmentation...a buffed version of it too. Current windwalking is no longer baseline, costs 2 talent points, and gives 4% speed total. Bronze gives 10% base and a whopping 40% during hover. Its the greatest troll blizzard has ever committed. They didnt just yoink it from windwalker... They deliberately smeared dung all over it until it was unrecognizable, and it has had me FUMING!
I think going forward all current classes with only dps specs (rogue, mage, warlock, hunter etc.) will all need to have 1 spec converted to a utility support spec.
If they bring the buffs of Aug in line with other DPS classes you lose the entire point of bringing an Augmenter. If they end up with the same overall group damage with an Augmenter as if you brought anything else you end up with "bringing the Augmenter" being the objectively wrong choice every time. The lower the group damage buff is the harder a dead DPS hits - effectively, if you bring an Augmenter and the group isn't a super imba mega team you run the risk of your Augmenter providing less group dmg the second someone dies. The only real way to solve this issue is to rebalance the buffs by loading them off on the Augmenter's personal DPS - at which point you might as well play a Devestator (same goes for nerfing Aug's non-dps support). Any way you slice it the Augmenter has to be overpowered to have a chance of being brought, or it has to be turned into just another DPS spec. Imo i'd love it if Aug just did no personal damage and buffed the rest to obscene amounts instead. I want the full Bard.
This might be a red herring comment, but isn't a big part of why Aug is so busted because of SPriest bringing PI? With Fire Mage (which is very good for PI) and SPriest which can obviously spread PI to 2/3 of the DPS specs, Aug just buffs already buffed classes so really you have (the vast majority) of all 3 DPS specs are having their damaged buffed by PI? I feel Aug needs its own role and friends for the support role, I dont thing any nerf can take away from PI buffing 3 specs in the God comp..
I see only 3 options: 1. They add more support specs, and 1tank-1heal-1support-2dps becomes the overall new meta 2. They remove aug/nerf aug to the ground so it is numbers-wise unplayable 3. Aug stays obligatory
I posted this in the latest Wowhead thread about Warcraftlogs average raid damage: This statistic is misleading the average player because it's set to the 95th percentile. They should show 50% and not 95% since the game should be balanced for the average player. for 50%, Augment Evoker is just middle of the pack lower half and that is easy to understand. Augment benefits a lot if you optimize your raid for it and if you have good other players in the raid. If you further nerf Augment, it will be absolute dog ^&*! in normal and heroic raids and can only be used by the top guild who know how to perfectly optimize their setup for Augment. Same in M+, sure it's OP for keys >+25 since these keys are being done by the best players who, again, optimize for it. But when you do key
Aug should bring more to the table than a standard dps because you are giving your damage away to others, that's the tradeoff of a support spec. If you look at final fantasy 14, a good dancer is way more valuable to the group than the pure dps classes. I think they should leave Aug alone because for a support spec it's right where it should be power wise but in the coming tiers they need to increase the number of 'support' specs. Devastation is an amazing buff target and I look forward to groups with a devastation in it because they get more from my buffs than most specs in the game. Aug is the meta right now only because there are no other options in the support playstyle and an ideal meta comp should be 1 tank 1 healer 1 support 2 dps
Make some suggestions, all you did was list why aug is better for 12minutes. Your are pro player give them some changes like what spell to buff or talent. You just spent time crying over aug. Yes it strong and hard to balance but this does not help give suggestion rather then saying I want all that… and coming off as if you just want to be op
I refuse to fill the servile role of augmentation to my guild. I am devastation or bust. Thankfully my guild doesn't actually care since we are a casual mythic guild. We made it all the way to sark w/o me having to go augment and i think we can get CE still.
I don’t know what should or even could be done to bring Aug in line. Even if it dealt slightly less damage than Dev (which it doesn’t), it makes the tank tankier, the healer can heal more, it has insane defensives for the whole group and it just never dies itself. I almost feel like I’m cheating when I play Aug, cause I just cannot die. Up to +23 I don’t even proc the cheat death because I’m just so damn tanky in so many ways, including the fact that I never even need to consider greeding for damage, if my buff is running I am basically free to run around and dodge stuff, can probably even keep casting cause hover lasts forever on aug.
Aug should just be removed. It's a failed experiment at this point. One is being "required" for every key I see, mythic raid bosses die in 20 seconds, this simply isn't working. I was just pugging a weekly 20 last night, saw a devoker get invited/kicked and the lead waits 10 minutes ignoring ALL alternatives to find a lesser geared aug. It's not only silly, but a train wreck of game balance. I've been collecting portals on 7 characters this season, and it's the worst season I've ever seen for pugging as I swap between meta/non-meta specs.
I can't express to you how much this spec (Aug) has ruined the game for me. I get kicked and declined from groups constantly for not playing Aug. I'm a 2.6k Dev who doesn't even know Aug, but can no longer play my spec - that keep in mind is totally viable. I can't even get into farm groups......I was doing 19s before Aug dropped and now I can't even get into 16s!!! I have NO friends playing endgame to help me gear another toon and with all the horrible things going on for me IRL right now, I doubt I have the time to get a brand new spec choice (since I do NOT want to play Aug, nor do I know how to) that I know, up to the high af ilvl my evoker is at - even if I DID have friends. Blizzard has literally killed devestation and my ability to play this game. I'm so depressed irl and now aug has killed my ability to play a game I love, thanks a lot Blizzard.
Maybe I just don't understand, but how would they have a spot in M+ or Raid then? No one would ever take a class that does no damage if there isn't a dedicated support spot in the queue (which would need more support classes).
@@ren_9353 the amount of damage, utility, and survivability they provide to others on the team far surpasses just taking another normal DPS right now. They assist all parts of the team, making the tank harder to kill, allowing healers to heal easier, and boosting the main stat of all members.
@@ren_9353 Look at Lost Ark. Every party has 1 support and they do almost no damage. they buff and heal and help with other mechanics in the raids. Funny how that works.
I stopped playing evoker because of this i had so much fun with devastation then augmentation came out and ruined it all. I don't like playing augment and i can't even play mythic without being one.
Devastation is still a very solid spec and there's no reason why you can't run it with an Aug. It's just lumped in the same boat as every other non god-comp spec. The real culprit here is Priest... for the love of god blizzard please delete truesight from mobs.
Hasn't this been the same with all classes that has a 2-3 dps specs ? Mage was in the same boat. U either played fire or frost rarely arcane, and everytime 1 of the dps specs of a class was dead. If augmentation will be brought in line as u say there will never ever be a reason for anyone to play augmentation and then what ur just going to be stuck with dev spec for the rest of the time unless u go prevoker. What Blizz can do if ever actualy take in consideration player base is buff the dps leave aug the way it is so that it's a flavor of what u want in ur group. The other solution is just remove the suport aspect and have aug just be another pure dps with black and bronze magic ( black beeing like big burst dps and bronze dot type of dps ) and that will solve the issue. Blizz steals ideas from other games but fails to nail the suport aspect like FFXIV and GW2 did. SO it's either buff dev , compleatly kill aug or make aug just another dps spec. Keep in mind this was also not fair for another class that started with 2 specs ( DH ) wich did not recived a 3th spec but thats a different subject.
Blizzard just needs to admit that the community and the game weren’t ready for a support spec. Great idea but terrible execution. I’ve seen so many people compare it to the dancer job in ffxiv but I think are failing to understand that only 3 jobs in ffxiv don’t bring in a “support” dps. Even then those 3 jobs damage is the main reason you bring them and is meant to equalize it’s lack of utility. Unless blizzard and wcl are ready to give DH the damage from chaos brand, damage from Battle shout they, monks mystic touch, and etc then blizzard had to have known this was either gonna be unplayable or broken. It’s pretty obvious they chose broken.
aug is just omega annyoing like u need an aug in every key. but when u get an aug u can't even see ur own dmg without the aug buff's so u cannot tell how good or bad u are playing like mid key
The argument of "I feel pressured to play spec X because its powerful" I feel is kinda weak. You can say the same thing about almost any dps class that has multiple dps specs. You may want to play spec X, but if spec X is dogwater and spec Y of your class is OP, it doesnt matter what you like you are going to be pressured to play whats good. Augmentation while certainly different in how it does damage is still at the end of the day a dps spec, in a competitive environment youre always going to be pressured to play what is better.
Sure. Blizzard just needs to find a balance between the value of its utility and the value of its damage. I figured the damage of aug would be lower and provide other buffs. yet, here we are where aug is doing more damage than dev while also providing more utility. it's no contest.
I like augmentation and getting tired of the top 1% players and streamers to complain about it. But sadly they are the vocal minority. For the average player Aug is a good thing. As Aug I can help players who barely could time a 20 to do just that. Because I can soften their mistakes and bring their damage to an acceptable level. and in regards to Aug being required in +29/30 keys? who cares? that are like a few dozen players. There are 61 timed +29 FH and that aren't 61 unique players. There are always 3 meat DPS specs
Atm the only solution is a rework of Aug to make its personal dps more inline with a real dps. Even if it provides less overall dmg in a key or raid fight it still has a broken defensive/utility kit. As a DPS Evoker I do not like playing Aug, but when like what was hit on in the video you are so pressured to play the spec and I most often than not get removed from a group above a 20 key if I don't want to play it.
Or just have EM go to DPS classes. The issues are from AUG making the tank tankier, the healer healier(?) and bringing all the utility on top. If it was shifted so the class supported DPS roles only that may be a compromise for maintaining a support feel. It would probably be a lot less satisfying to play, but at least the "our dps" aspect is maintained.
Adding Aug made me feel miserable. I knew from the getgo dev is dead because auf has just like 500% of the utility with more or less the same dmg. its just not fair.
Let’s also talk about how mage might also be dead. Frost spec was already behind boomy, shammy dps, spriest, augment and a good rogue in many dungeons outside but they nerfed it even more today.
Please nerf them all. I don’t want to play any of these 5 specs I want to play what I want to play and still do 26-27 keys. I don’t want to be forced to play this
Previous upload has audio issues due to a copyright claim on the intro. This is the reupload.
-let Devastation evokers to cast deep breath twice.. as its exclusive.. im basically saying a Devastation should have a build around deep breath.. (like the raid boss has)
-Buff Pyra (aoe fire) builds lowering the charge to 2 orbs instead of 3.. buff the chance to shoot out another Pyra chance to 50% instead of 35%..
-Buff fire storm by 10-25% damage so its used more..
-Add a talent that makes it so Living flame has a 50% chance to shoot more then 2 projectiles when targeting hostiles..
-Living flame when targeting hostiles increased haste by 50%..
-Talent based on shadowflame that makes living flame unable to heal allies anymore but deals 25% more damage.. Devastation exclusive..
-Let Devastation evokers use pole arms...
that's how I would buff Devastation evoker.. @preheat
I think Blizz should just accept that they have added a whole new role to the game and commit to adding more supports as quickly as possible to give players more options when it comes to which support they bring, otherwise just rework Aug into a full on dps spec.
New issue then. You now forever remove 1/3 of the available slots for DPS in dungeons. You're forcing then dps players to play support, just to be able to do dungeons.
@@nitomurray6137 in 20+ keys I am pretty sure that is already the case with Aug rn, I mean they could do better to balance Aug fs but that is kind of already happening
As already commented: With augmentation evoker, this meta with 1 tank, 1 heal, 1 support and 2 dps is already reality.
@@nitomurray6137 perhaps but a great many are now playing support, I don't think they would struggle to get a third of dps players into a support role if more were added. I do think part of the fail here is a support role with a dps label, they need to either remove the support role or add it in fully so tank, heal, support and dps.
@@nitomurray6137Could add a 6th group slot for support specs.
I submitted a suggestion in game last week addressing this issue since there is no reason to bring an Aug and a Dev when you can bring an Aug plus another class so you get another group buff. Even Warcraft Logs raid stats are showing Aug does both more damage and brings more survivability than Dev. I switched to Aug for Magmorax because logs were showing a 10k gap in damage between Aug and Dev! I decided to swap over mid-raid without the perfect itemization (no re-gemming, re-crafting, or re-enchanting). I had less than 7k mastery, while our two dedicated Augs had around 9k mastery. But I estimate I still did 5k more DPS as unoptimized Aug than fully optimized Devastation. Dev also now falls lower on PI priority than Affliction, so unless you have an abundance of priests in raid or no Unholy DK, Demo Warlock, or Aff Warlock, Dev is likely not getting PI, which further widens the damage gap between Aug and Dev.
The deva nerf is not a small nerf actually. The single target suffered a very slight dps loss, but the AoE is basicly dead if you have no CDs. Overall the nerf hit hardar, the harder you built on mastery.
It’s not as hard of a fix as folks think. Augmentation doesn’t have a dmg upper threshold. Other dps do. If I add more mobs - the damage doesn’t scale linearly for say a fire mage. It decays as you get more and more mobs. With Augmentation they need to implement a similar dmg cap ( so the more damage a pair of dps do- eventually the ebon might buff decays to zero). This would be similar to how glimmer works for hpal.
Some possibilities: 1) Make Aug only buff DPS classes & parse down the group utility to be in line with most other DPS (acknowledging that there is also a utility imbalance across other dps as well). It is a DPS support that should only support DPS doing DPS. 2) Nerf Aug into the ground and make it a troll spec 3) Leave Aug as is and it is now. It is BIS for all high keys until another support spec is added. Now we have even more people clogging up the DPS roll making group finding even more difficult.
As a devoker since beta, I've been playing some outdoor content only to get a taste of devastation back into my life
I started the expansion as Evoker Dev, then switch to Preservation to help into raid and it was cool to switch what is need it dps or heal, when Aug came out, I swap and now Is the noly spect I'm allow to play hahaha, it because it really makes the difference, it's crazy how ppl invite to high keys just for been Aug, that never happened to Dev at all xD
Adding more utility/survivability for Dev would go a long way making it more "playable" for keys. If there are other specs with more damage and more utility than Dev, is normal that people don't feel inclined to bring it to key pushing (if you kick dev players and demand aug in 20 or less keys, you just want to be carried). Other specs suffer from it, not just Dev. It just feels particularly bad for them because you have the ability to actually open your spec window and just change it, and considering how bad secondary stats are for Aug, gearing is not actually such an issue. I think the Dev/Aug comparison debate is a trap for both specs. Aug is a SUPPORT. just because it uses a dps slot (since it is the only "disposable" slot they could pick), it shouldn't be compared to a DPS, IMO. Dev's issues come from way before Aug was a thing. As you've mentioned, the threat issue, the survivability issue, etc. All of these were here before Aug and are STILL here. Fixing these would go a long way to making Dev feel better, because, in the end, it's just another dps spec. If Dev has good survivability and bring good (not necessarily the BEST) damage, it CAN be brought to keys. The "God Comp" issue came not just from Aug being busted, but also how strong the other specs were. Mage just got reworked, so it was "expected" that it would either come out broken or weak as hell. HARDLY a spec come out of a rework "balanced". SPriests get reworked every patch or so as well. Hpally got reworked. You get the idea. The problem with Aug's logs is that people tend to think that "yo, Aug's doing great damage". When it's not Aug that is doing great damage. Aug allows OTHER SPECS to do great damage. You can and should make sure that it doesn't look like "top dps spec does 100k damage, but Aug contributes a total of 150k damage on logs". It should be somewhat balanced, but Aug depends directly on other people doing the damage for you. If your comp sucks or doesn't get as much benefits from Aug as other comps, you don't get a lot of saying in that as the Aug player. You can control, realistically, 2 out of 4 Ebon Might buffs through Prescience. The other 2 depends on people standing near you or you standing near them. Not a thing for 99% of the player base to actually manage that. If you play Overwatch, the closest comparison I can think for Aug is Lucio's speed boost. Its power comes directly from how good the rest of the team is in playing around it. But give it to a non-optimal group, then suddenly it doesn't feel as strong. SUPPORT role is a staple that makes everything smoother, not Aug per se. Add 1 or 2 more SUPPORT specs and legit make a support 4th ROLE (like tank/dps/healer), and suddenly Aug's "issues" become just the new way of how the group composition in the game works, IMO.
If I were to make a fundamental change to augmentation, I would redesign the black/bronze attunement (or remove them and replace with something else) and the talent associated with the attunements.
The only way I see this being fixed is to change group size. If you go to 6 you have 3 dps spots which is needed simply because 70%+ of the player base is dps. By further limiting dps spots it has made M+ more elitist than it already was. This would allow groups to have 4 dps spots with one support spec per group max. This would also allow a ton more class diversity.
I felt that supports should fit in as a healer. not a dps. tank/sup/3dps or tank/heal/3dps. yet here we are. dumbass blizzard wants to make support a dps and it's going oh so well.
I understand how on point Preheat assessment of the class is, but the one factor that is hard to quantify is how well people use the buff from AUG once they get it. Basically if blizz steps in an micromanage the benefit of the buff it will turn similar to how Bard is in FF14 now.
Basically in FF14 Bard would give massive benefits to the group and their personal dmg was subpar compared to other dps; same as the concern pre-heat has mentioned the FF devs though it was to much so they nerf the buffs so much that they are basically useless at this point. In addition, since bard has always worked like that they have not been able to buff their personal dmg enough to compensate which resulted in Bard being dropped and not played since there was better options that using a subpar spec.
In my opinion that is what will happen to AUG Evoker if they nerf the buff to much.
TLDR is that if they keep nerfing AUG Evoker to the point the buff are minimal they will go from mandatory to never played. They just introduced a spec that does not work well with the trinity they had establish for years, so is either going to be extremely good (which im personally ok with) or unplayable.
Augmentation should just be a healer spec. Or either make their dps less that of a tank. Another thing they could do is to have an "empowerment" that focuses on either tank/dps/healers that gives that x person significant amount more stats or procs w/e and everyone else is reduced significantly.
IMO, if this is supposed to be a DPS support class, then it should be just that, focused on dps. By trying to add a little bit of everything it makes it, as you had mentioned, just better overall than devastation . You're not just being a DPS force multiplier, but also now are responsible for helping to reduce threat, help the tank, add stamina....why? It should just be helping to DPS and maybe like movement speed/utility, which would be helpful but not as solidly necessary. They should take all the stamina, survivability, etc and maybe add another support role but healer based. Kind of like Disc but less of a barrier profile and more number based.
Then, they could add other support specs to classes that focus on tank or healing. Give a choice on which and how many, though, maybe combine tank and heal support, as a pure tank support would have very limited vacancy.
I think one shouldn't limit their class to just a spec and try to learn all roles of your class. You will never feel like there's no vacancy for you.
the solution unfortunately is more aug-like specs to compete with it. It's at this point a new role, and the only one who can fill it is aug. Im ok with the new role, but not that only one spec fills it.
I know that it doesn't really work, since it would take a while for them to make more, but I would honestly love this. I said it on the previous upload of this video, but I main buffers/enchanters in every game. Augmentation is a spec I thought I would never get in WoW. And I really love it and I hope they won't just make it useless or turn it into a normal dps class. So I hope they figure something out on how to make supports viable.
It’s time to add another icon for a support role
Yep. As you , I’m loving augvoker but what make me start this expansion as a evoker was DeV . Now , every time im trying to play it im not allowed or people say they only invit me for been augvoker
Well crap. Just read an Aug nerf is incoming reducing breath of eons from 15 to 10 and fates mirror proc from 15 to 10
If they nerf the spec they need to only do it toward keys dont ruin the support spec in everything cuz people are crying they're not getting invited to keys!
Blizzard took pre-dragonflight windwalking and gave it to augmentation...a buffed version of it too. Current windwalking is no longer baseline, costs 2 talent points, and gives 4% speed total. Bronze gives 10% base and a whopping 40% during hover. Its the greatest troll blizzard has ever committed. They didnt just yoink it from windwalker... They deliberately smeared dung all over it until it was unrecognizable, and it has had me FUMING!
The only time I have been asked to go Deva was to dps carry two alts in a +16. I thunk they were both under 410 ilevel at the time.
I think going forward all current classes with only dps specs (rogue, mage, warlock, hunter etc.) will all need to have 1 spec converted to a utility support spec.
Who let u cook
More support specs will bring devastation back into play. Short of deleting augmentation or all its group buffs, this is the only way forward.
Aug does more damage than dev. so explain how adding more supports does anything. lol
If they bring the buffs of Aug in line with other DPS classes you lose the entire point of bringing an Augmenter. If they end up with the same overall group damage with an Augmenter as if you brought anything else you end up with "bringing the Augmenter" being the objectively wrong choice every time. The lower the group damage buff is the harder a dead DPS hits - effectively, if you bring an Augmenter and the group isn't a super imba mega team you run the risk of your Augmenter providing less group dmg the second someone dies. The only real way to solve this issue is to rebalance the buffs by loading them off on the Augmenter's personal DPS - at which point you might as well play a Devestator (same goes for nerfing Aug's non-dps support). Any way you slice it the Augmenter has to be overpowered to have a chance of being brought, or it has to be turned into just another DPS spec. Imo i'd love it if Aug just did no personal damage and buffed the rest to obscene amounts instead. I want the full Bard.
Summed it up well "We are buffing how strong we feel as a comp", nice deep dive into the actual solution not just the doom and gloom version.
This might be a red herring comment, but isn't a big part of why Aug is so busted because of SPriest bringing PI?
With Fire Mage (which is very good for PI) and SPriest which can obviously spread PI to 2/3 of the DPS specs, Aug just buffs already buffed classes so really you have (the vast majority) of all 3 DPS specs are having their damaged buffed by PI?
I feel Aug needs its own role and friends for the support role, I dont thing any nerf can take away from PI buffing 3 specs in the God comp..
fantastic opening of the video, 10/10 no notes
Stop nerfing: Buff the rest
I would love to see devastation buffed. Augmentation is a ton of fun and nerfing it such that people can play devastation again would kill the spec.
I see only 3 options:
1. They add more support specs, and 1tank-1heal-1support-2dps becomes the overall new meta
2. They remove aug/nerf aug to the ground so it is numbers-wise unplayable
3. Aug stays obligatory
I prefer a 4th option, make all healers more support focused.
4. Make party 6ppl and make another at least 3-4 more support specs.
I posted this in the latest Wowhead thread about Warcraftlogs average raid damage:
This statistic is misleading the average player because it's set to the 95th percentile. They should show 50% and not 95% since the game should be balanced for the average player. for 50%, Augment Evoker is just middle of the pack lower half and that is easy to understand. Augment benefits a lot if you optimize your raid for it and if you have good other players in the raid. If you further nerf Augment, it will be absolute dog ^&*! in normal and heroic raids and can only be used by the top guild who know how to perfectly optimize their setup for Augment.
Same in M+, sure it's OP for keys >+25 since these keys are being done by the best players who, again, optimize for it. But when you do key
Aug should bring more to the table than a standard dps because you are giving your damage away to others, that's the tradeoff of a support spec. If you look at final fantasy 14, a good dancer is way more valuable to the group than the pure dps classes. I think they should leave Aug alone because for a support spec it's right where it should be power wise but in the coming tiers they need to increase the number of 'support' specs. Devastation is an amazing buff target and I look forward to groups with a devastation in it because they get more from my buffs than most specs in the game. Aug is the meta right now only because there are no other options in the support playstyle and an ideal meta comp should be 1 tank 1 healer 1 support 2 dps
1 tank. 1 healer. 1 support. 1 pi. 1 dps. yeah great system we got here.
Make some suggestions, all you did was list why aug is better for 12minutes. Your are pro player give them some changes like what spell to buff or talent. You just spent time crying over aug. Yes it strong and hard to balance but this does not help give suggestion rather then saying I want all that… and coming off as if you just want to be op
I refuse to fill the servile role of augmentation to my guild. I am devastation or bust. Thankfully my guild doesn't actually care since we are a casual mythic guild. We made it all the way to sark w/o me having to go augment and i think we can get CE still.
give the aug powers to the evoker healer, make a tank evoker and keep dev. Or split up the aug abilities between other classes
I don’t know what should or even could be done to bring Aug in line. Even if it dealt slightly less damage than Dev (which it doesn’t), it makes the tank tankier, the healer can heal more, it has insane defensives for the whole group and it just never dies itself. I almost feel like I’m cheating when I play Aug, cause I just cannot die. Up to +23 I don’t even proc the cheat death because I’m just so damn tanky in so many ways, including the fact that I never even need to consider greeding for damage, if my buff is running I am basically free to run around and dodge stuff, can probably even keep casting cause hover lasts forever on aug.
to fix aug or any futur support all they need to do is add a 6th slot for mytjic+ groups for support specs.
i know excatly what u talking about and that's why i start to main sp rn
Aug should just be removed. It's a failed experiment at this point. One is being "required" for every key I see, mythic raid bosses die in 20 seconds, this simply isn't working. I was just pugging a weekly 20 last night, saw a devoker get invited/kicked and the lead waits 10 minutes ignoring ALL alternatives to find a lesser geared aug. It's not only silly, but a train wreck of game balance. I've been collecting portals on 7 characters this season, and it's the worst season I've ever seen for pugging as I swap between meta/non-meta specs.
Augmentation isn't stepping on Devastation's toes.
It's stomping on those toes with heavy steel toed boots
Buff devastate, nerfing Aug will suck. I main Aug and ill never get keys if you hamstring us more. Give devastate more defensive and threat dump.
I can't express to you how much this spec (Aug) has ruined the game for me. I get kicked and declined from groups constantly for not playing Aug. I'm a 2.6k Dev who doesn't even know Aug, but can no longer play my spec - that keep in mind is totally viable. I can't even get into farm groups......I was doing 19s before Aug dropped and now I can't even get into 16s!!! I have NO friends playing endgame to help me gear another toon and with all the horrible things going on for me IRL right now, I doubt I have the time to get a brand new spec choice (since I do NOT want to play Aug, nor do I know how to) that I know, up to the high af ilvl my evoker is at - even if I DID have friends.
Blizzard has literally killed devestation and my ability to play this game. I'm so depressed irl and now aug has killed my ability to play a game I love, thanks a lot Blizzard.
Support specs should do no/very little damage.
Maybe I just don't understand, but how would they have a spot in M+ or Raid then? No one would ever take a class that does no damage if there isn't a dedicated support spot in the queue (which would need more support classes).
@@ren_9353 the amount of damage, utility, and survivability they provide to others on the team far surpasses just taking another normal DPS right now. They assist all parts of the team, making the tank harder to kill, allowing healers to heal easier, and boosting the main stat of all members.
@@ren_9353 Look at Lost Ark. Every party has 1 support and they do almost no damage. they buff and heal and help with other mechanics in the raids. Funny how that works.
I stopped playing evoker because of this i had so much fun with devastation then augmentation came out and ruined it all. I don't like playing augment and i can't even play mythic without being one.
Devastation is still a very solid spec and there's no reason why you can't run it with an Aug. It's just lumped in the same boat as every other non god-comp spec. The real culprit here is Priest... for the love of god blizzard please delete truesight from mobs.
The best thing about Devastation evoker? You can play Augmentation or Preservation XD
Hasn't this been the same with all classes that has a 2-3 dps specs ? Mage was in the same boat. U either played fire or frost rarely arcane, and everytime 1 of the dps specs of a class was dead. If augmentation will be brought in line as u say there will never ever be a reason for anyone to play augmentation and then what ur just going to be stuck with dev spec for the rest of the time unless u go prevoker.
What Blizz can do if ever actualy take in consideration player base is buff the dps leave aug the way it is so that it's a flavor of what u want in ur group. The other solution is just remove the suport aspect and have aug just be another pure dps with black and bronze magic ( black beeing like big burst dps and bronze dot type of dps ) and that will solve the issue.
Blizz steals ideas from other games but fails to nail the suport aspect like FFXIV and GW2 did.
SO it's either buff dev , compleatly kill aug or make aug just another dps spec. Keep in mind this was also not fair for another class that started with 2 specs ( DH ) wich did not recived a 3th spec but thats a different subject.
Blizzard just needs to admit that the community and the game weren’t ready for a support spec. Great idea but terrible execution. I’ve seen so many people compare it to the dancer job in ffxiv but I think are failing to understand that only 3 jobs in ffxiv don’t bring in a “support” dps. Even then those 3 jobs damage is the main reason you bring them and is meant to equalize it’s lack of utility. Unless blizzard and wcl are ready to give DH the damage from chaos brand, damage from
Battle shout they, monks mystic touch, and etc then blizzard had to have known this was either gonna be unplayable or broken. It’s pretty obvious they chose broken.
NGL I don't miss dying on pull as Aug....
aug is just omega annyoing like u need an aug in every key. but when u get an aug u can't even see ur own dmg without the aug buff's so u cannot tell how good or bad u are playing like mid key
The argument of "I feel pressured to play spec X because its powerful" I feel is kinda weak. You can say the same thing about almost any dps class that has multiple dps specs. You may want to play spec X, but if spec X is dogwater and spec Y of your class is OP, it doesnt matter what you like you are going to be pressured to play whats good. Augmentation while certainly different in how it does damage is still at the end of the day a dps spec, in a competitive environment youre always going to be pressured to play what is better.
Sure. Blizzard just needs to find a balance between the value of its utility and the value of its damage. I figured the damage of aug would be lower and provide other buffs. yet, here we are where aug is doing more damage than dev while also providing more utility. it's no contest.
the only way they goin to fix dev to be as good as aug is if they buff the damage for dev and then give it more utility abilities
I like augmentation and getting tired of the top 1% players and streamers to complain about it. But sadly they are the vocal minority. For the average player Aug is a good thing. As Aug I can help players who barely could time a 20 to do just that. Because I can soften their mistakes and bring their damage to an acceptable level. and in regards to Aug being required in +29/30 keys? who cares? that are like a few dozen players. There are 61 timed +29 FH and that aren't 61 unique players. There are always 3 meat DPS specs
I agree
Atm the only solution is a rework of Aug to make its personal dps more inline with a real dps. Even if it provides less overall dmg in a key or raid fight it still has a broken defensive/utility kit. As a DPS Evoker I do not like playing Aug, but when like what was hit on in the video you are so pressured to play the spec and I most often than not get removed from a group above a 20 key if I don't want to play it.
Or just have EM go to DPS classes. The issues are from AUG making the tank tankier, the healer healier(?) and bringing all the utility on top. If it was shifted so the class supported DPS roles only that may be a compromise for maintaining a support feel. It would probably be a lot less satisfying to play, but at least the "our dps" aspect is maintained.
Adding Aug made me feel miserable. I knew from the getgo dev is dead because auf has just like 500% of the utility with more or less the same dmg. its just not fair.
Solution: dont cut down anything. Just add another support class to the game :)
so change nothing and add another support to swap in and out with aug? that solves nothing. congratulations.
Let’s also talk about how mage might also be dead. Frost spec was already behind boomy, shammy dps, spriest, augment and a good rogue in many dungeons outside but they nerfed it even more today.
East fix, make devastation a tanking spec Boom now we do it all 😂😂😂😂
Could be worse. You could main a Hunter.
Dev is plenty defensive, just have to be decent at it.
Serious question did you even watch the video
yep@@cavscoutsampson
Augmentation needs to be nerfed, it is only way. There is a reason support spec didnt work in classic wow..
Please nerf them all. I don’t want to play any of these 5 specs I want to play what I want to play and still do 26-27 keys. I don’t want to be forced to play this
The irony
6 man keys
Make dev a tank. Done
They will kill aug. Im calling it
Duh all the streamers cry about it constantly
pi is bad game design, blizz turned pi into a spec. shocked its now mandatory