Id just be happy if there was a way to have details show a class bar on the other dps bar that shows how much we contributed to their dps. That way they have their bigger numbers but we also see how much we helped them.
Details already added an option similar to this. Go to options, combat log, class options and check the evoker options. It does not show a bar next to the other dps but it does show a bar next yours. It adds your damage plus whatever damage you contributed
@@pabs9550 The problem is that option isn't accurate. It's basically just guesses how much dps you added, not the actual amount. There is no way for details to track the actual dps augvoker adds. Addons don't have access to the hooks necessary for it.
Preach had a good comment about this on his Augmentation Evoker vid. He said back in TBC there was a similar issue with resto shaman changing the way they healed and it took roughly a month or two for everyone to realize how powerful it was. The spec hasn't even been out for a week yet and casual players usually do not watch YT vids like this so I'd just give it some time for the masses to be educated, if we don't see a change in two month then I'll worry.
@@mariosarkis3859 only the groups with bad players kick the augs the good players are only taking in augs you can the moment the group is form is they know nothing about aug is best you dont bother with them.
@@table2187but you should. Literally im unable to join any key as dps evoker at all, because a lot o peoples think, that im aug. Even when i type them, that im dev, they dont want me in their group, because im dps evoker... thats really bad... when i try to make a party with my key, im in lfg for 2-3 hours no cap. And on top of that, if im on aug by that time, testing on dummy, and someone join, he leave right after, because im on aug spec.
I have been Augmentation in quite a lot of runs (M+, new mega dungeon & raids), groups are fine with the numbers shown on details, never got kicked so far. Instead most are excited (mainly fire mages XD) when I joined the group! Fun spec so far!
Yup i dont know who’s getting kicked but I always take augmentation evokers. And the details meters are obviously not going to be accurate idk why people would ever kick them.
details has an option to turn on under "Combat Log" and "Class Options" called "Predict Augmentations Buffs" and itll show a light green bar showing his effective dps he provided from buffing the party. how accurate it is, idk. but for me so far, they are still usually under 2nd place dps a bit. but it also doesnt factor the survivability and utility they provide, just the dps they add to the group. so i still think they are good because of that.
Remember how hard it was for blizz to balance PI's in Shadowlands? When some specs like fire mages or destro locks dominating the scene just from +20% haste? Well now they've introduced an entire spec full of such spells. Fatality. Imo they either have to add more of such specs and dedicate a specific role for it, or rework augmentation asap to prevent the chaos.
As someone who loves the support role, I really like seeing my allies blow up the meters. I like hearing them laugh over discord because of the absolutely ridiculous numbers. I think having an option to show it is fine, but I don't think showing augmentation damage should be the default
The problem is that you shouldn't have to go to third party websites to judge your performance. There has to be some way in game for the average user to be able to tell how they're doing without going to third party sites.
jumpin in here to echo @thundreChicken 's sentiment... seeing my allies doing big numbers using a THIRD PARTY addon is quite entertaining and joyous.. If blizz is adding hooks for an external website to display thats all the power to em... the default experience without addons should be pure FUN
@@MrMrSymmetrywhile I agree with your sentiment this game has been around for far too long for it to just be as simple as pure fun, people in this game are obsessed with numbers and if you aren’t pulling them, and people don’t understand why, bad things happen
I like the fact that my allies damage is a lot higher thanks to my contribution, but it would be nice to be able to quickly see in Details what is shown in logs to see if I'm doing well.
Does that mean buffing classes that has not accumilation, pets will be better for evoker parsing? Like ret pally or ele shammy ?almost getting %90 of their damage ?
The main problem I was afraid of was that there was no way to see and feel if you were doing a contribution to the party because your own damage wouldn't tell anything. I've been doing low M+ and I can't tell the difference yet.
People will eventually learn. Especially when there's more support specs out there - it's just new and there's people who just play and don't read patch notes. They should keep the option to show both so Supports can have an idea of their performance but it feels better to really see your teammates pop off - that's essentially the whole mentality of wanting to play support. If it just looks like a normal dps than what's the point. It's going to be extremely complicated for meters and logs to attribute everything to Augmentation too. If it's already difficult for just PI, imagine the whole Augmentation kit..
With how people are making Augvokers pariahs, there won't be more support specs. The meme of them being a dps and not a support that needs to do 500k needs to die or no tinkers or bards or anything in the future.
This is literally the plot of some Japanese fantasy manga where the l33t party kicks the main character who is the support class for "not contributing" then they cannot understand how they are weaker after that. I did not expected to see that plot happen in a video game
From my experience. I played a lot of runs since it came out, so far didnt get kicked or complained at, instead the random ppl i get are excited to have me- plus i could tell what i do is paying off when i see my party members numbers just blow up high sky. 👍
Maybe not have the damage directly shown, but there needs to be a metric to measure performance on the fly. It would be nice to see a stacking bar to see what we're adding to others.
There is. Remember your old dps and then you'll know how much the aug is helping you with. People seem to realize they're smart enough to look that up themselves as a dps. But they've got so much brainrot, they became too stupid to do that lol
This is in a similar category with initially how absorbs worked with healing meters. However, because Aug amplifies damage it still requires the core character to optimize the buff which means the damage that is being amplified belongs to the character that is using it not the character that casted it in a similar way you don't add PI damage that a priest gives to someone back to the priest.
in honesty i think it's good that it shows only ur allies dmg especially if u are a premade group however i think there needs to be a way to see all of ur own attributed dmg so that u can learn from it
I shared this with my raid leader as I'm bringing augmentation into our mythic raid for the first time tomorrow. I don't really mind details being the way it is now, the other DPS having their meter showing huge numbers strokes their ego and hopefully makes them want to keep bringing me so they can continue to see those numbers, but I really need an accurate tool personally to measure my performance so I can work out improvements, and right now warcraft logs isn't really fit for purpose for doing that.
In most of the elitist groups where bragging rights determine efficacy of how you play. we need some measuring stick to determine if the aug you brought is doing their job. saying " i'm doin x% better" is also going to just be a best guess at best. This is a support role, and it would be god to be able to measure how well we're doing and see where we might be able to improve as Augs. love the data you're presenting here!
I literally predicted this was going to happen. Back in Shadowlands all the top Boomies told us to go Kyrian when SL launched. This included Tettles, Naguura, Goop, Sang and many others. Well here was the problem, the Kyrian ability had us link with the top damage dealer in the party which is fine, but our damage did not show up on the logs. It made the other dps look great and us look like crap, so we were kicked from groups. Almost instantly everyone dropped Kyrian and took up Night Fae. This is what's happening now with Augmentation. Augmentation is looking like crap on the meters and getting kicked from groups.
Everyone with 1 functioning braincell foresaw this. I mean not just your example but look at Enha shamans during sanctum. No pug took it because "low damage" while at the same time every mythic guild under the sun was either trying to recruit one or already had one. The majority of the playerbase is so fucking retarded its absolutely astonishing how they even manage to breath.
Moonkins swapped to nf because it was better, not because damage didnt show on logs. Kyrian didnt become theoretically better until the cov legendaries were usable as an extra with double lego. But by then venthyr was found. Outside of pvp, kyrian was just never the play.
We have 2 augs in our guild, myself included. We ran heroic raid for our usual weekly run and our dps was hyping us up so much. On details we were bottom 2 dps but everyone else was pumping
What would be a good asset to Augmentors would be seeing our uptime, possible in Primary per Second and Seconary per Second (PpS/SpS). Like, I dont care about the damage, I care about my performance and I feel like all thes hoops to reclaim damage are math games, I want to see what Im doing (buffing) not what my buffs are doing. Add me to the chourus of people that want to boost my mates, my dps meter may as well have one name on it and its me looking how I can get better.
Agree they need to improve accuracy on logs, but I am totally fine with friction from the details reports, I am a support and I want to see my buffs make others better. People just need to learn what this spec does.
Im loving augmentation. My guild likes what I bring to them. But there is no way to track how well I’m doing in real time and like you have pointed out, the logs aren’t necessarily accurate. I just need to show that I’m helping and see what I can do to improve.
Well, it is the same for all raid wide buffs right ? Is it getting back to the Monk when all melee are doing 5% more damage ? Is it getting back to the Warrior for the battle cry ? How about the 10% intel your Mage is giving ? The 3% vers of your Druid is so insignificant when your Avoker gives over 20%, I doubt those 3% were getting back to your Druid... It is just so that this particular spec here is all about those buffs and they are way more significant than what we were used to with other specs...
Yes I would like the option to see my contribution via dps meter. Having the option to show augmentation dps with or without ally damage included would be the best decision.
This is exactly what I was afraid of. So even in ffxiv on damage meters you do not see the damage you give to others as a bard or dancer or any class that gives buffs. You do see it in logs. With 3 types of logs which I wish wow logs would use. I really don’t want the dps I buff to get shown on my details. My damage is my damage there damage is there damage. When people keep saying there damage is mine it is false. They could hit zero buttons and get nothing from my buffs. I do not want details to show my damage based upon the damage of how good or bad the other players are. I love the dancer/bard play style they created.
I have only run mythic plus in my guild groups and even though my contribution doesn’t show on details they are loving this damage increase. This is because they are not clueless and understand how augmentation works. That said, I would like to see my output on details to make it easier for me to see what I need to do to improve.
I think that if it makes its way into details then it would be nice if it still showed against the other dps, but perhpas a slit bar so that they can see its given by the augmentor. Im happy with buffing them and thats why im enjoying aug.
I am fine with in-game meters showing it on teammates. I don't mind logging my runs and digging through stuff on WarcraftLogs. However, a reasonable middle ground is an extra option for in-game meters. Have traditional damage done show as it does currently, but add, let's call it effective dps or group dps, so edps or gdps option. That way, it is there if needed, but it doesn't need to be shown if the player doesn't care or want to see it.
They want me to see that my buffs increase my allies' damage, but when you're pugging dungeons, it's not like you get get to see the "before and after" damage meters. You get nothing to give you any idea how well you're doing.
I had a resto druid that didn't know how to battle rez or what their overall healing plan was in a 21 (!) Uldaman that pointed at my Aug damage as if that was the problem for not timing the key. Guy was our only battle rez and didn't spend a single one. Would've easily timed it. 😭😭😓
I just started a fresh Augmentation Evoker after playing Arcane Mage since BC. The buddy i run with noticed a huge difference in me playing AGEvoke. Most people i run into while out in about when in just world quest comment to me about the huge increase they see.
It would be nice to have ways of seeing if you are doing it right.. lol That's what I use the meters for as a dps and healer. To see if I am doing what I am supposed to. It includes interrupts, purges or damage taken too. With augmentation, I just have to read what I have to do and then just have to trust it.
Do people no realized details has a feature under combat log in options to enable estimated augmentation buff.... which estimates the dps they are doing via their buffs. It has been there for the last week.
Is there a way to see how much mana is returned from using Source of Magic? I cant see anything. Also I was kicked and flamed the first two days, but last two days have been good. (I even made a macro at the start apologizing for my details numbers, explaining it was wrong and would explain it if they liked) Today I've had nothing but praise from the groups saying they fully understand. So its getting better.
Ilvl is big, u want Mastery on every slot, as much as you can get, avoid Vers like the plague. Sims are being worked on, but it's difficult cuz Aug is different from other dps.
Does anyone know if the augmentation buffs stack? Like in an M+ with 2 augvokers, and another single DPS would that other DPS get double buffs during Ebon Might?
My guild has 3 dps evokers in our raid. 1 went aug when it dropped. Me and the other guy are 1&2 every fight usually but with the aug buffing us we were untouchable on dmg. Casually finishing fights around 170k on heroic vs 115-125 depending on the encounter before.
Is be happy for it to show on my allies instead of me. I did a couple of lower keys (13 and 14) and in both groups someone made a comment about my ilvl and 'horrible dmg' .
I honestly love seeing my friends DPS break the meters and laugh at my own doing healers DPS, BUT i would really like an option to switch between "Fixed warcraft logs" Meter and "Details" meter in game so i could still see my friends' DPS high, but also judge my own performance easier. I don't have a lot of knowledge in programming and stuff like that, so i don't know if it is too complicated to do or not. As long as Warcraft logs' issue gets fixed so it attributes everything correctly, i'd be satisfied enough to not have any complains!
Do I contribute more damage as Aug or Dev? It's kind of a big problem we don't even have a way to answer that question, nor does it appear answerable in logs/details.
Imo details should show the damage gains from Aug. as pet damage so the game can at least beak down where the extra damage is coming from. Else, how will you know a good Aug Vs an afk Aug?
I don’t personally want a change to details. It’s a support class so I like that when I’m in groups people are obsessed with having an aug because now they’re doing 250k overall in a dungeon. And if logs can get to a point where they’re accurate, it’s great that you can then go look there if you really want to see your contribution .
Never been kicked from a group, it’s actually the opposite people love seeing me in groups. Got a whisper from a warrior after run telling me “Idk what you were doing but please keep doing I was seeing 600k crits.” Something else I notice is the bigger the pull the more my damage goes to where sometimes I exceed the other DPS even with the buffs I give them.
The standard has always been "bigger bar = better dps" So seeing a dps like this feels weird. Details will get a good hook here soon, so maybe they can tabulate and parse the data and represent it properly.
Maybe it’s time Blizz implements their own damage meter in the game. They build the game, they understand the code architecture and have all the necessary data available to read the game code. If the information for the combat hooks are to sensitive to give to third party addons, fix it internally then. They did implement e.g. some years ago WeakAura like functionality with showing proccs and stuff, with DF they build in Bartender as the „Edit Mode“, so they clearly thought it’s good for player experience, so it wouldn’t be the first time an addon became part if the core game.
I'd love if details didn't add the damage to me but instead had it in brackets next to whatever dps the person I'm buff is then i could add it after the fact if I wanted and it would let people get a better understand of how helpful I was for each person.
I hope it gets to a point where Either details or Logs is 99% accurate. Before we knew how logs were not attributing correctly to the augs, our raid assumed aug just wasnt performing well. Cause we were primarily buffing our unholy/demo/fire mages, we later learned we were actually doing very well.
Ive been unable to do any m+ this week, everyone is saying things like "kick the trashvoker" or things like "if you want a carry go pay someone". Im seriously considering going back to devastation.
So what I'm getting is if you are pugging your going to hate life. But if you are in a large group or guild that play together on a regular slot your good to go?
"You are doing less damage than the healer" - Aug life in pugs :( Good point its not a WCL issue rather blizz not allowing them to capture the information.
The issue with augmentation is the 20k dps i do made up with the buffs i give? If so how much damage do my buffs give? Is it more than doing 90k as devastation?
It can, Aug can outperform dev in keys, but the other players need to be good. Dev has very strong carry potential, whereas Aug builds off of everyone else. But realistically, an Aug vs a dev in a good group, Aug is better overall due to the support in cc, dmg, and survivability.
BM hunters are pretty bad for logs too. on our rashok kill last night, they did 137k overall, and i was 89k :( would love to go back and look at how much i was missing
in the early interviews they said it was going to show up on details and now it doesnt. Really makes me wary about playing this is anything but guild groups
Genuinely not sure what the answer is here. I'm with blizzard in that it's better for everyone if augmentation isn't constantly on top of meters making it about their dps when it should be about buffs. But also only being able to see the full damage in logs and not details is really bad. Maybe there needs to be an option where the default details is what we have now but you can press the menu and enable evoker damage if you so wish. Maybe the answer isn't to add our damage to details but to add some visual stuff to the ui that shows our buffs being put out. Like a bar on people or something
I like how it is right now. I don’t like my high DPS that’s why I like augment I don’t feel so pressured to do a ton of damage. My job is to buff/heal and cc. I think the problem is that they need to heal a bit more. Augment should be a in the middle class in my opinion. If my healer is healing for 70k I should be able to heal for 30k. And my DPS should be at the bottom. I’m not there to do damage. I’m here to support my Allie’s help keep tank alive help my Allie’s do more damage or more healing. I should be able to cc affix’s and stuff like that.
We need some sort of metric to gauge performance on, but I don't think calculating it and putting it on our bar on details is right. Personally I think we need to move away from that otherwise that mentality will never evolve. I am having an insane ammount of fun as Aug. The whole point of the class is to be selfless, so bringing all the numbers back to you is defeating the objective. Maybe they should gauge performance on buff uptime and hps instead of outright dps
Its weird, cause Ion said that they wanted to make sure people would be able to see what they have done in groups. But i guess they couldnt figure it out quick enough and now say "this is intended". Who knows...
The Aug Evoker is going to force the player base to think differently about how the DPS meters are looked at when it's in a raid/group. People that understand what the class brings to a group will be happy to bring one along with them.
Im in agreement with what you had to say at the start. I cant guage how well im playing with this spec in the group. Did they buff my at the right times? did they buff me at all in a raid?. Okay will check logs to see. Oh thats fuckd too and doesnt track correctly? Great i now have zero information to use to see how i am performing.
Idk, but if augmentation details showed your damage what would be The meaning of The spec... you would prob be better off making ebon might a dot and it will be a spec like all The others. I dont play augmentation, but I love how I double my dps in a key by having one with me.
A damage log tracker (Details/Warcraft Logs) is never going to show this 'extra damage' on the Augmentation. The Augmentation is buffing other characters to do more damage. They do not do the damage themselves. People need to look at the team as a whole and realize that they are doing % more damage. We don't give a priest the damage when they PI on someone to increase their haste so the dd can do more damage do we? No. Of course not. The only thing that is broken here is people's mindsets.
Not even just the damage, but me queuing as a tank, as I usually do for those sweet sweet loot bags, looking at the new buffs I have on my buff bar. _Goddamn!_ Come on in, augvokers! Bring your friends! (do any augvoker effects stack? I don't really know anything about it yet)
Honestly, I think being a support spec means you *shouldn't* care that much about what you damage is. It's very feelycraft, but you know when you're going through a dungeon at a good pace and when you aren't (same with bosses in raid). So, I think it's fine personally. People just need to understand it's a support and not a dps.
Lotro captain(support class) main here. Heck yeah good points there dude. The support role is to buff the groups you're in and to help in any way they can to ensure the group succeeds. Plus having support just makes the raid groups more chill.
Who could have seen this coming. Certainly not all the PTR players complaining there's no way in-game to determine effectiveness of Aug. If I'm pugging I have no way of knowing what someones usual DPS is to see what increase I'm giving them. Details doesn't show my damage contributions. And if a DPS is a bad player, then the group really suffers with Aug being present.
Maybe at this point Blizz should put in their own DPS meter in game and not having it be a third party addon. I mean they build the game and have all the information needed in their code. If they think it is an issue to give the public important and sensitive data, fix the issue internally then. They did implement e.g. some years ago WeakAura like functionality with showing proccs and stuff, with DF they build in Bartender as the „Edit Mode“, so they clearly thought it’s good for player experience, so it wouldn’t be the first time an addon became part if the core game.
I've had people rage quit keys because of my DPS as an Aug voker, I was in a +20 and the boomie actually said "I will come and find you for wasting my time" I wish I screen shot it but I obv reported him to blizz. But honestly IMO blizz is making the player base more toxic by not allowing details access to the API they need.
I would like !details to show aug evoker's contributed dmg as a staple ontop of the dps, so if I play pala and do 130k avg dmg with a pink staple I see the aug evokers dmg as a green staple ontop of my and he gave me 50k more dps so in total I did 180k dps, this whey I as the paladin player know how great I did compared to my previus runs and I know how well I did, and if I was the evoker in this case I know how well I did compared to my other runs. I think the biggest Issue is ''I have played both'' is that before I could always compare my runs to my previus runs but as soon is I get an an evoker I cant gauge my performance at all as a dps. And the same goes for me when I playevoker, If I play evoker and my dps did 150k dps with 444 ilvl, I dont know if it was the dps that played bad or if it was me not keeping up my buffs well enough. I love the evoker play style and I love playing with the but I lost sence of how well im doing when I play with them, the only reference I have is '''it felt good''.
For sure i was kicked from m+ party. Unfortunately not because of aug evoker, but rather because i give them a choice, to play dev or aug and i was kicked a sec after. Sometimes i just cannot even fill the party for my own m+ key, because when peoples join and check whitch spec im on, they lave by themselves if im on aug. Funny thing is, i was messing with talents and build at that time, because i was curious about whats aug about i wasnt thinking about to run it and i was on lfg for like 3 hours. What the heck is wrong with those peoples, that hate dps evokers. Dayum..
Meters need to be more dynamic in general. The meta slave class of the month player that never interrupts/stuns, does not drink healing potions, and takes more damage is not being properly gauged on how they are really doing in the dungeon
the damage aug bring and also with the utility, its stupidly broken honestly lmao. the health buff and 1.5 min rally i just insane for m+ since theres only 5 members.
I was running an LFR on Tuesday and a few people tried to kick me because as ilvl 437 i should be doing more DPS than 30k or what ever it was, but thankfully there was a guild group in there for what ever reason (probably rashok trinket) that was a 444 enhance shaman i was buffing, 2 healers and a tank who said they would also leave if they kicked me and then told people to go read the patch notes and educate themselves.😂 Played it in our heroic raid on Friday night and got sone good parces (not that it matters week 1 with like no competition) but i also did manage to beat some of my devestation PBs on a few bosses with what warcraft logs was saying so thats cool.
Id just be happy if there was a way to have details show a class bar on the other dps bar that shows how much we contributed to their dps. That way they have their bigger numbers but we also see how much we helped them.
Details already added an option similar to this. Go to options, combat log, class options and check the evoker options. It does not show a bar next to the other dps but it does show a bar next yours. It adds your damage plus whatever damage you contributed
@@pabs9550 The problem is that option isn't accurate. It's basically just guesses how much dps you added, not the actual amount. There is no way for details to track the actual dps augvoker adds. Addons don't have access to the hooks necessary for it.
@@pabs9550 I did not know this, thank you!
@@pabs9550 Its hugely inaccurate; tested it earlier today.
If they wanted to they could just have the augmentation evoker go afk a few pulls and compare their dps.
Preach had a good comment about this on his Augmentation Evoker vid. He said back in TBC there was a similar issue with resto shaman changing the way they healed and it took roughly a month or two for everyone to realize how powerful it was. The spec hasn't even been out for a week yet and casual players usually do not watch YT vids like this so I'd just give it some time for the masses to be educated, if we don't see a change in two month then I'll worry.
This. Worrying this soon after the patch is nonsensical
@@TheSilverwing999not when augs are getting kicked out of groups constantly and being griefed
@@mariosarkis3859 only the groups with bad players kick the augs the good players are only taking in augs you can the moment the group is form is they know nothing about aug is best you dont bother with them.
@@table2187but you should. Literally im unable to join any key as dps evoker at all, because a lot o peoples think, that im aug. Even when i type them, that im dev, they dont want me in their group, because im dps evoker... thats really bad... when i try to make a party with my key, im in lfg for 2-3 hours no cap. And on top of that, if im on aug by that time, testing on dummy, and someone join, he leave right after, because im on aug spec.
@@FiREFLY_SvKoh please….
I have been Augmentation in quite a lot of runs (M+, new mega dungeon & raids), groups are fine with the numbers shown on details, never got kicked so far. Instead most are excited (mainly fire mages XD) when I joined the group! Fun spec so far!
This has been my experience as well.
Im a fire mage want to play lolol
Yup i dont know who’s getting kicked but I always take augmentation evokers. And the details meters are obviously not going to be accurate idk why people would ever kick them.
details has an option to turn on under "Combat Log" and "Class Options" called "Predict Augmentations Buffs" and itll show a light green bar showing his effective dps he provided from buffing the party. how accurate it is, idk. but for me so far, they are still usually under 2nd place dps a bit. but it also doesnt factor the survivability and utility they provide, just the dps they add to the group. so i still think they are good because of that.
its usually a 3rd of the real dps for me
Remember how hard it was for blizz to balance PI's in Shadowlands? When some specs like fire mages or destro locks dominating the scene just from +20% haste?
Well now they've introduced an entire spec full of such spells. Fatality.
Imo they either have to add more of such specs and dedicate a specific role for it, or rework augmentation asap to prevent the chaos.
I wish that details would turn on “predict augmentation dps” by default. Yeah, it’s not very accurate, but better than nothing
As someone who loves the support role, I really like seeing my allies blow up the meters. I like hearing them laugh over discord because of the absolutely ridiculous numbers. I think having an option to show it is fine, but I don't think showing augmentation damage should be the default
The problem is that you shouldn't have to go to third party websites to judge your performance. There has to be some way in game for the average user to be able to tell how they're doing without going to third party sites.
@@FurballTTV details is literally a third party app LOL?
jumpin in here to echo @thundreChicken 's sentiment... seeing my allies doing big numbers using a THIRD PARTY addon is quite entertaining and joyous.. If blizz is adding hooks for an external website to display thats all the power to em... the default experience without addons should be pure FUN
@@zyongli5760you know what he means my guy, quit being a shithead if you’re not gonna contribute anything useful to the conversation
@@MrMrSymmetrywhile I agree with your sentiment this game has been around for far too long for it to just be as simple as pure fun, people in this game are obsessed with numbers and if you aren’t pulling them, and people don’t understand why, bad things happen
I like the fact that my allies damage is a lot higher thanks to my contribution, but it would be nice to be able to quickly see in Details what is shown in logs to see if I'm doing well.
I like that details and WCL have different data sets; so that I can compare the two and do some mental math on my contributions.
100% - tried today and was quite disappointed w/ DPS numbers and moved back to normal spec. Glad I found this vid so I'm not the only one!
Does that mean buffing classes that has not accumilation, pets will be better for evoker parsing? Like ret pally or ele shammy ?almost getting %90 of their damage ?
The main problem I was afraid of was that there was no way to see and feel if you were doing a contribution to the party because your own damage wouldn't tell anything. I've been doing low M+ and I can't tell the difference yet.
People will eventually learn. Especially when there's more support specs out there - it's just new and there's people who just play and don't read patch notes. They should keep the option to show both so Supports can have an idea of their performance but it feels better to really see your teammates pop off - that's essentially the whole mentality of wanting to play support. If it just looks like a normal dps than what's the point.
It's going to be extremely complicated for meters and logs to attribute everything to Augmentation too. If it's already difficult for just PI, imagine the whole Augmentation kit..
With how people are making Augvokers pariahs, there won't be more support specs. The meme of them being a dps and not a support that needs to do 500k needs to die or no tinkers or bards or anything in the future.
This is literally the plot of some Japanese fantasy manga where the l33t party kicks the main character who is the support class for "not contributing" then they cannot understand how they are weaker after that. I did not expected to see that plot happen in a video game
From my experience. I played a lot of runs since it came out, so far didnt get kicked or complained at, instead the random ppl i get are excited to have me- plus i could tell what i do is paying off when i see my party members numbers just blow up high sky. 👍
Maybe not have the damage directly shown, but there needs to be a metric to measure performance on the fly. It would be nice to see a stacking bar to see what we're adding to others.
There is. Remember your old dps and then you'll know how much the aug is helping you with.
People seem to realize they're smart enough to look that up themselves as a dps. But they've got so much brainrot, they became too stupid to do that lol
This is in a similar category with initially how absorbs worked with healing meters. However, because Aug amplifies damage it still requires the core character to optimize the buff which means the damage that is being amplified belongs to the character that is using it not the character that casted it in a similar way you don't add PI damage that a priest gives to someone back to the priest.
in honesty i think it's good that it shows only ur allies dmg especially if u are a premade group however i think there needs to be a way to see all of ur own attributed dmg so that u can learn from it
I think a fix for details would be not directly attributing but having an extra section for ebon might.
I shared this with my raid leader as I'm bringing augmentation into our mythic raid for the first time tomorrow. I don't really mind details being the way it is now, the other DPS having their meter showing huge numbers strokes their ego and hopefully makes them want to keep bringing me so they can continue to see those numbers, but I really need an accurate tool personally to measure my performance so I can work out improvements, and right now warcraft logs isn't really fit for purpose for doing that.
In most of the elitist groups where bragging rights determine efficacy of how you play. we need some measuring stick to determine if the aug you brought is doing their job. saying " i'm doin x% better" is also going to just be a best guess at best.
This is a support role, and it would be god to be able to measure how well we're doing and see where we might be able to improve as Augs.
love the data you're presenting here!
I literally predicted this was going to happen. Back in Shadowlands all the top Boomies told us to go Kyrian when SL launched. This included Tettles, Naguura, Goop, Sang and many others. Well here was the problem, the Kyrian ability had us link with the top damage dealer in the party which is fine, but our damage did not show up on the logs. It made the other dps look great and us look like crap, so we were kicked from groups. Almost instantly everyone dropped Kyrian and took up Night Fae. This is what's happening now with Augmentation. Augmentation is looking like crap on the meters and getting kicked from groups.
It's only getting kicked from groups by braindead people that don't understand what the spec does, most high keys use augmentation
Everyone with 1 functioning braincell foresaw this. I mean not just your example but look at Enha shamans during sanctum. No pug took it because "low damage" while at the same time every mythic guild under the sun was either trying to recruit one or already had one. The majority of the playerbase is so fucking retarded its absolutely astonishing how they even manage to breath.
Moonkins swapped to nf because it was better, not because damage didnt show on logs. Kyrian didnt become theoretically better until the cov legendaries were usable as an extra with double lego. But by then venthyr was found. Outside of pvp, kyrian was just never the play.
Honestly mindblowing that so many people don’t know what the spec does. The upside of having a key group that runs one, I suppose.
We have 2 augs in our guild, myself included. We ran heroic raid for our usual weekly run and our dps was hyping us up so much. On details we were bottom 2 dps but everyone else was pumping
i love having aug evokers in my m+ runs they make everything soo much smooth and easy
Same dude, friend of mine supported me with his 398 ilvl Evoker and pretty much doubled my dps even with his low gear
What would be a good asset to Augmentors would be seeing our uptime, possible in Primary per Second and Seconary per Second (PpS/SpS). Like, I dont care about the damage, I care about my performance and I feel like all thes hoops to reclaim damage are math games, I want to see what Im doing (buffing) not what my buffs are doing.
Add me to the chourus of people that want to boost my mates, my dps meter may as well have one name on it and its me looking how I can get better.
Agree they need to improve accuracy on logs, but I am totally fine with friction from the details reports, I am a support and I want to see my buffs make others better. People just need to learn what this spec does.
Im loving augmentation. My guild likes what I bring to them. But there is no way to track how well I’m doing in real time and like you have pointed out, the logs aren’t necessarily accurate. I just need to show that I’m helping and see what I can do to improve.
Was this fixed on WClogs???
Cuz I can't find any of those "small squares" that represent the extra dmg-done cuz of the Augmentation Evoker's buffs...
I actually like that our damage is low on details personally.
Well, it is the same for all raid wide buffs right ? Is it getting back to the Monk when all melee are doing 5% more damage ? Is it getting back to the Warrior for the battle cry ? How about the 10% intel your Mage is giving ? The 3% vers of your Druid is so insignificant when your Avoker gives over 20%, I doubt those 3% were getting back to your Druid... It is just so that this particular spec here is all about those buffs and they are way more significant than what we were used to with other specs...
Yes I would like the option to see my contribution via dps meter. Having the option to show augmentation dps with or without ally damage included would be the best decision.
This is exactly what I was afraid of. So even in ffxiv on damage meters you do not see the damage you give to others as a bard or dancer or any class that gives buffs. You do see it in logs. With 3 types of logs which I wish wow logs would use. I really don’t want the dps I buff to get shown on my details. My damage is my damage there damage is there damage. When people keep saying there damage is mine it is false. They could hit zero buttons and get nothing from my buffs. I do not want details to show my damage based upon the damage of how good or bad the other players are. I love the dancer/bard play style they created.
I have only run mythic plus in my guild groups and even though my contribution doesn’t show on details they are loving this damage increase. This is because they are not clueless and understand how augmentation works. That said, I would like to see my output on details to make it easier for me to see what I need to do to improve.
i was so worried when i saw i had awful damage in a dungeon, turns out there was a bm hunter and it wasnt logging ANY of its damage as mine
I think that if it makes its way into details then it would be nice if it still showed against the other dps, but perhpas a slit bar so that they can see its given by the augmentor.
Im happy with buffing them and thats why im enjoying aug.
I am fine with in-game meters showing it on teammates. I don't mind logging my runs and digging through stuff on WarcraftLogs. However, a reasonable middle ground is an extra option for in-game meters. Have traditional damage done show as it does currently, but add, let's call it effective dps or group dps, so edps or gdps option.
That way, it is there if needed, but it doesn't need to be shown if the player doesn't care or want to see it.
i think it would be good to change the damage contribution to 50/50 instead of 30/70
They want me to see that my buffs increase my allies' damage, but when you're pugging dungeons, it's not like you get get to see the "before and after" damage meters. You get nothing to give you any idea how well you're doing.
I had a resto druid that didn't know how to battle rez or what their overall healing plan was in a 21 (!) Uldaman that pointed at my Aug damage as if that was the problem for not timing the key. Guy was our only battle rez and didn't spend a single one. Would've easily timed it. 😭😭😓
I just started a fresh Augmentation Evoker after playing Arcane Mage since BC. The buddy i run with noticed a huge difference in me playing AGEvoke. Most people i run into while out in about when in just world quest comment to me about the huge increase they see.
It would be nice to have ways of seeing if you are doing it right.. lol That's what I use the meters for as a dps and healer. To see if I am doing what I am supposed to. It includes interrupts, purges or damage taken too. With augmentation, I just have to read what I have to do and then just have to trust it.
Do people no realized details has a feature under combat log in options to enable estimated augmentation buff.... which estimates the dps they are doing via their buffs. It has been there for the last week.
i think it's fine. Details never tells the full story anyway. WCL is always they place to be for analysing your gameplay after a raid/m+
Is there a way to see how much mana is returned from using Source of Magic? I cant see anything. Also I was kicked and flamed the first two days, but last two days have been good. (I even made a macro at the start apologizing for my details numbers, explaining it was wrong and would explain it if they liked) Today I've had nothing but praise from the groups saying they fully understand. So its getting better.
Great video. Any advice on simming for gear? I tried to use Raidbots and it said the spec is not supported. Is there an alternative I can use?
Ilvl is big, u want Mastery on every slot, as much as you can get, avoid Vers like the plague.
Sims are being worked on, but it's difficult cuz Aug is different from other dps.
Does anyone know if the augmentation buffs stack? Like in an M+ with 2 augvokers, and another single DPS would that other DPS get double buffs during Ebon Might?
My guild has 3 dps evokers in our raid. 1 went aug when it dropped. Me and the other guy are 1&2 every fight usually but with the aug buffing us we were untouchable on dmg. Casually finishing fights around 170k on heroic vs 115-125 depending on the encounter before.
This make sense, in my last night right I was close to buff the DK, and after raid my dmg were so low compare to other classes I was near
Is be happy for it to show on my allies instead of me. I did a couple of lower keys (13 and 14) and in both groups someone made a comment about my ilvl and 'horrible dmg' .
i dont see the evoker dmg on the abilities shown on WCL is this a setting i have to activate first?
Think it would be great like u said to have details be able to flip and show the damage both ways
I honestly love seeing my friends DPS break the meters and laugh at my own doing healers DPS, BUT i would really like an option to switch between "Fixed warcraft logs" Meter and "Details" meter in game so i could still see my friends' DPS high, but also judge my own performance easier. I don't have a lot of knowledge in programming and stuff like that, so i don't know if it is too complicated to do or not. As long as Warcraft logs' issue gets fixed so it attributes everything correctly, i'd be satisfied enough to not have any complains!
Do I contribute more damage as Aug or Dev? It's kind of a big problem we don't even have a way to answer that question, nor does it appear answerable in logs/details.
i like making ppl happy on details. dont need to be high on the meter
Imo details should show the damage gains from Aug. as pet damage so the game can at least beak down where the extra damage is coming from.
Else, how will you know a good Aug Vs an afk Aug?
I’ve been quite fortunate with the m+ team I’ve been playing with. Augment is incredible and we pushing quite high keys with it like 24 25
I don’t personally want a change to details. It’s a support class so I like that when I’m in groups people are obsessed with having an aug because now they’re doing 250k overall in a dungeon. And if logs can get to a point where they’re accurate, it’s great that you can then go look there if you really want to see your contribution .
Never been kicked from a group, it’s actually the opposite people love seeing me in groups. Got a whisper from a warrior after run telling me “Idk what you were doing but please keep doing I was seeing 600k crits.” Something else I notice is the bigger the pull the more my damage goes to where sometimes I exceed the other DPS even with the buffs I give them.
The standard has always been "bigger bar = better dps"
So seeing a dps like this feels weird. Details will get a good hook here soon, so maybe they can tabulate and parse the data and represent it properly.
thankfully details just added a new update that adds real time predictive dps and so over time as people update details, should see it being better
Maybe it’s time Blizz implements their own damage meter in the game. They build the game, they understand the code architecture and have all the necessary data available to read the game code. If the information for the combat hooks are to sensitive to give to third party addons, fix it internally then.
They did implement e.g. some years ago WeakAura like functionality with showing proccs and stuff, with DF they build in Bartender as the „Edit Mode“, so they clearly thought it’s good for player experience, so it wouldn’t be the first time an addon became part if the core game.
i got multiple times where people leave the key because aug voker dmg doesn't show on details
Actually when I make the details, I'm gonna make so:
Shows the difference of the buffed and not buffed dmg. And this difference give to ur dps.
I would LOVE to see my damage in Details. But I am also worried, if this ever is the case, why would even consider a devastation evoker anymore then.
Because devastation is still one of if not the best all around dps class right now.
Augmentation Evokers are awesome to have in grps. Played with an undergeared evoker making our key just as smooth as butter lmao.
Is details better than recount? I’ve only ever used recount
I'd love if details didn't add the damage to me but instead had it in brackets next to whatever dps the person I'm buff is then i could add it after the fact if I wanted and it would let people get a better understand of how helpful I was for each person.
Also the spec relies on your team actually staying alive or goodbye damage.
I hope it gets to a point where Either details or Logs is 99% accurate. Before we knew how logs were not attributing correctly to the augs, our raid assumed aug just wasnt performing well. Cause we were primarily buffing our unholy/demo/fire mages, we later learned we were actually doing very well.
Ive been unable to do any m+ this week, everyone is saying things like "kick the trashvoker" or things like "if you want a carry go pay someone". Im seriously considering going back to devastation.
So what I'm getting is if you are pugging your going to hate life. But if you are in a large group or guild that play together on a regular slot your good to go?
"You are doing less damage than the healer" - Aug life in pugs :( Good point its not a WCL issue rather blizz not allowing them to capture the information.
The issue with augmentation is the 20k dps i do made up with the buffs i give? If so how much damage do my buffs give? Is it more than doing 90k as devastation?
It can, Aug can outperform dev in keys, but the other players need to be good. Dev has very strong carry potential, whereas Aug builds off of everyone else. But realistically, an Aug vs a dev in a good group, Aug is better overall due to the support in cc, dmg, and survivability.
Just got my legendary quest item so, guess whos spending 500k and getting the bIS aug weap
BM hunters are pretty bad for logs too. on our rashok kill last night, they did 137k overall, and i was 89k :( would love to go back and look at how much i was missing
in the early interviews they said it was going to show up on details and now it doesnt. Really makes me wary about playing this is anything but guild groups
I was going to say they noted the pet classes won’t be fixed until later on which is sad times.
Genuinely not sure what the answer is here. I'm with blizzard in that it's better for everyone if augmentation isn't constantly on top of meters making it about their dps when it should be about buffs. But also only being able to see the full damage in logs and not details is really bad. Maybe there needs to be an option where the default details is what we have now but you can press the menu and enable evoker damage if you so wish.
Maybe the answer isn't to add our damage to details but to add some visual stuff to the ui that shows our buffs being put out. Like a bar on people or something
I like how it is right now. I don’t like my high DPS that’s why I like augment I don’t feel so pressured to do a ton of damage. My job is to buff/heal and cc. I think the problem is that they need to heal a bit more. Augment should be a in the middle class in my opinion. If my healer is healing for 70k I should be able to heal for 30k. And my DPS should be at the bottom. I’m not there to do damage. I’m here to support my Allie’s help keep tank alive help my Allie’s do more damage or more healing. I should be able to cc affix’s and stuff like that.
We need some sort of metric to gauge performance on, but I don't think calculating it and putting it on our bar on details is right. Personally I think we need to move away from that otherwise that mentality will never evolve. I am having an insane ammount of fun as Aug. The whole point of the class is to be selfless, so bringing all the numbers back to you is defeating the objective. Maybe they should gauge performance on buff uptime and hps instead of outright dps
Augment evoker feels awesome in m+. I always try to invite one if i can
Its weird, cause Ion said that they wanted to make sure people would be able to see what they have done in groups.
But i guess they couldnt figure it out quick enough and now say "this is intended".
Who knows...
The Aug Evoker is going to force the player base to think differently about how the DPS meters are looked at when it's in a raid/group. People that understand what the class brings to a group will be happy to bring one along with them.
Im in agreement with what you had to say at the start. I cant guage how well im playing with this spec in the group. Did they buff my at the right times? did they buff me at all in a raid?. Okay will check logs to see. Oh thats fuckd too and doesnt track correctly? Great i now have zero information to use to see how i am performing.
Am I the only one with the augmentation specific setting in details?
Idk, but if augmentation details showed your damage what would be The meaning of The spec... you would prob be better off making ebon might a dot and it will be a spec like all The others. I dont play augmentation, but I love how I double my dps in a key by having one with me.
A damage log tracker (Details/Warcraft Logs) is never going to show this 'extra damage' on the Augmentation. The Augmentation is buffing other characters to do more damage. They do not do the damage themselves.
People need to look at the team as a whole and realize that they are doing % more damage.
We don't give a priest the damage when they PI on someone to increase their haste so the dd can do more damage do we? No. Of course not.
The only thing that is broken here is people's mindsets.
Not even just the damage, but me queuing as a tank, as I usually do for those sweet sweet loot bags, looking at the new buffs I have on my buff bar. _Goddamn!_ Come on in, augvokers! Bring your friends! (do any augvoker effects stack? I don't really know anything about it yet)
Yes, they do stack.
Honestly, I think being a support spec means you *shouldn't* care that much about what you damage is. It's very feelycraft, but you know when you're going through a dungeon at a good pace and when you aren't (same with bosses in raid). So, I think it's fine personally. People just need to understand it's a support and not a dps.
Lotro captain(support class) main here. Heck yeah good points there dude. The support role is to buff the groups you're in and to help in any way they can to ensure the group succeeds. Plus having support just makes the raid groups more chill.
'overall is everything' - a 20 pusher
'overall does not time the key' - a wise man
Who could have seen this coming. Certainly not all the PTR players complaining there's no way in-game to determine effectiveness of Aug. If I'm pugging I have no way of knowing what someones usual DPS is to see what increase I'm giving them. Details doesn't show my damage contributions. And if a DPS is a bad player, then the group really suffers with Aug being present.
Maybe at this point Blizz should put in their own DPS meter in game and not having it be a third party addon.
I mean they build the game and have all the information needed in their code. If they think it is an issue to give the public important and sensitive data, fix the issue internally then.
They did implement e.g. some years ago WeakAura like functionality with showing proccs and stuff, with DF they build in Bartender as the „Edit Mode“, so they clearly thought it’s good for player experience, so it wouldn’t be the first time an addon became part if the core game.
I've had people rage quit keys because of my DPS as an Aug voker, I was in a +20 and the boomie actually said "I will come and find you for wasting my time" I wish I screen shot it but I obv reported him to blizz. But honestly IMO blizz is making the player base more toxic by not allowing details access to the API they need.
I would like !details to show aug evoker's contributed dmg as a staple ontop of the dps, so if I play pala and do 130k avg dmg with a pink staple I see the aug evokers dmg as a green staple ontop of my and he gave me 50k more dps so in total I did 180k dps, this whey I as the paladin player know how great I did compared to my previus runs and I know how well I did, and if I was the evoker in this case I know how well I did compared to my other runs. I think the biggest Issue is ''I have played both'' is that before I could always compare my runs to my previus runs but as soon is I get an an evoker I cant gauge my performance at all as a dps. And the same goes for me when I playevoker, If I play evoker and my dps did 150k dps with 444 ilvl, I dont know if it was the dps that played bad or if it was me not keeping up my buffs well enough. I love the evoker play style and I love playing with the but I lost sence of how well im doing when I play with them, the only reference I have is '''it felt good''.
For sure i was kicked from m+ party. Unfortunately not because of aug evoker, but rather because i give them a choice, to play dev or aug and i was kicked a sec after. Sometimes i just cannot even fill the party for my own m+ key, because when peoples join and check whitch spec im on, they lave by themselves if im on aug. Funny thing is, i was messing with talents and build at that time, because i was curious about whats aug about i wasnt thinking about to run it and i was on lfg for like 3 hours.
What the heck is wrong with those peoples, that hate dps evokers. Dayum..
Meters need to be more dynamic in general. The meta slave class of the month player that never interrupts/stuns, does not drink healing potions, and takes more damage is not being properly gauged on how they are really doing in the dungeon
Udk and demolocks damage by pets. Pets dont get profit from aug. So its less then 5% damage
the damage aug bring and also with the utility, its stupidly broken honestly lmao. the health buff and 1.5 min rally i just insane for m+ since theres only 5 members.
I was running an LFR on Tuesday and a few people tried to kick me because as ilvl 437 i should be doing more DPS than 30k or what ever it was, but thankfully there was a guild group in there for what ever reason (probably rashok trinket) that was a 444 enhance shaman i was buffing, 2 healers and a tank who said they would also leave if they kicked me and then told people to go read the patch notes and educate themselves.😂
Played it in our heroic raid on Friday night and got sone good parces (not that it matters week 1 with like no competition) but i also did manage to beat some of my devestation PBs on a few bosses with what warcraft logs was saying so thats cool.