Worth mentioning, the rules for this one was no infinite combos. You can do whatever you want to gain life, as long as it's not infinite. Also we banned cards that say "players/opponents can't gain life."
What if someone exiles a card from their library so they can't draw 99? And if that doesn't lose them the game, why not exile all but the last card and draw that to win? What about milling?
We should totally do a Catan style achievement system, longest road, most settlements, ports and so on. Wonder what that would look like in Magic form...1000 life is a fun alternate win con.
I wanted this for my group, but the arms race eventually put them in cedh and they do NOT want to return to casual. For them, I complained a lot. And i complained a lot, bc they were only interested in winning.
@@JustAChickn I know it sounds ridiculous, but to me commander is like showing off a presentation about a topic or thematic. Even Voltron (one dude against armies)
@@nCedric1Not ridiculous. The beauty of commander is the fact it is inherently less competitive than all other formats. I would go so far as to say the main goal of a commander game is not to win, but rather have fun / have your deck do its “thing.”
Esix should only target the first activation of creating a token each turn, and Tomer had already made a treasure toke from the undercity at his upkeep.
That is no where near close for record of life loss for them XD A long while back on moto, Seth delt so much damage it crashed the game iirc, and the later calculation was like 1 x 10²⁰ or something nuts like that
59:32 Tomer making a Treasure Token here is actually the first token he makes on his turn, which means that Esix wouldn't have triggered later on with the Avenger of Zendikar. "I'm going to make a treasure token; why not?" This is EXACTLY why not! Lol. Too bad no one caught it!
I dunno if that treasure token was mandatory or not, but that would have been the first Esix trigger that turn, which meant it couldn't have been used for the Avenger of Zendikar
commenting to see if anyone noticed that esix's trigger should have been wasted on the treasure tomer made at the beginning of his turn. it is a once per turn effect
He’s a terrible deck builder. He plays no interaction. He’ll never be able to contribute to helping stop other players from winning the game. Play a deck that’s faster than his and he has no chance.
@@dgreenlonghorn1 that doesn't make Phil a "terrible deck builder". he just clearly doesn't build towards the goal you want him to build. and he clearly doesn't care.
Props on even playing that game - besides the exact count of the counters on Tomer's creatures, I think you guys actually got all the rules right. And props to editing all that as well.
For some reason I find it delightful that Phil has the phrase "out the wazoo" in his personal lexicon. No idea what his relationship with the English language is, but that's a phrase you could go a long time without coming across if you don't hang around a lot of Americans of a particular age.
By my math, Tomer ended up on 53,857 life. This is based on my count of him having 28 lands and 3 permanents that gain him 1 life whenever a creature ETBs. Also, just 8 Righteous Valkyries entering the battlefield at the same time is enough to gain 1280 life (assuming you are starting with at least 7 more life than your starting life total).
If anyone is wondering why the Valkyrie situation works out like that (like I was); it can be helpful to remember that each additional Valkyrie is not only an additional +2/+2 aura, but an additional trigger of it's ability. So the formula for calculation would be a summation from 1 to n, where n is the number of Valkyries entering, with the summation term being: (4+2n)(n). 4 comes from the original toughness of the Valkyrie, and 2n comes from the fact that each Valkyrie creates a new +2/+2 aura. Then, you multiply by n for each individual Valkyrie that has already entered. For instance, the first copied Valkyrie, n=1, is as follows, it receives the original Valkyries buff, becoming a 4/6, and then triggers the original Valkyries ability, gaining 6 life. The second copy then enters, receiving the previous 2 auras, becoming a 6/8; and upon entering triggers BOTH of the previous two valkyries abilities (both the original and the copy). Meaning, he would gain 8+8 or 8*2, 16 life. This process continues from this point, with both the auras getting larger, and the number of triggers increasing as well; leading to the life gained to increase rapidly. Leading to a final value of: 6 + 16 + 30 + 48 + 70 + 96 + 126 + 160 + 198 + 240 + 286 + 336 + 390 + 448 + 510= 2960 (at least if I'm right about him putting 15 tokens onto the battlefield after resolving the first valkyrie). Edit: Minor correction, or possible misunderstanding on my part. The second valkyrie might enter as a 6/8. I was under the impression that the aura effect would not come into affect during the other valkyries triggers, but I believe that is incorrect. So the summation changes to (4+2(n+1))(n). The n plus one is just there to catch that the aura of valkyrie that is currently entering is also triggered.
@@loganvannevel9104 The valkyries are all entering simultaneously. This means that they are all buffing each other, and that they all see each other enter. Thus, the formula is (4+2m)(m)(n) where 'm' is the number of valkyries on the field and 'n' is the number that entered simultaneously. There are two other ways of setting this up that lead to different outcomes. The one that happened leads to the most life, and the one you assumed leads to the least. You treated this as each valkyrie being a separate object on the stack (this would be what would happen if you copied the valkyrie while it was a spell however many times), and thus all the triggers from each one resolve before the next one enters. The last way to set this up is so they enter sequentially but from the same effect. In this scenario, they would all be buffing each other when the life-gain triggers resolve, but they don't all see each other enter. This would be equal to (4+2m)(n^2/2 + n/2) life where 'm' is the total number of valyries and 'n' is the number that entered sequentially.
@@_claymore you're allowed to put mana rocks with your lands, but anything that's a creature (ie dryad arbor) has to be in front with your other creatures
43:20 for anyone curious: 15 total RVs. 1 RV sees 14 enter. All are getting +2/+2 (x15), so each has 34 toughness. The first one will then gain life for each of the 14 new ones, so 34×14 = 476. Then you'll have 14 instances of each token RV gaining 34 life for each other RV. So that will be 14x34x13=6188. 476+6188=6664 life gained. 6737 total life since Tomer was at 73.
1:01:15 Stcking all triggers properly, I believe there are 3 "Enter gain 1" sources and counting lands it looks like 27 including the 14 token lands. So first 27*3 is 81 putting us at 94, which means all 28 RVs (27 tokens plus the real one) are giving +2/+2. So each one has a nice easy 60 toughness. The original one will gain 27x60 life for 1620. The other 27 will each have 26 instances of gaining 60 life because they don't see themselves. So 26x27x60 for 42,120. Plus the 1620 and the 94 starting gives us 43,834. You may have noticed that you can simply this by shortcutting to a square. Number of tokens =X Their toughness =Y X² × Y life gained. It doesn't appear obvious right away because they all say "another" but it works. So, if I missed the land count, then the numbers need changed, but I didn't hear a definite number and went with what I could see.
Oh, and if you want to add Archangel of Thune, that adds an extra 81 counters to each RV from the Soul Warden effects meaning we gain 102,789, except another counter is added between each instance. This means that there are 27² instances of life gain. 729, to be exact. How do we do this? We actually have a formula for adding consecutive numbers, and since this is just a single point increase in each instance, that's all this is. Using the Gauss sum formula, we can find that this will add a cumulative total for the counters added between each trigger resolving. So add another 266,450 life on top of our 102,789. So that puts us round 369,239 life gained. This is still not the exact amount because I didn't even include the life from the Avenger itself entering. But you would either gain that life first and not get counters on the tokens or gain if after all of their triggers resolve and not gain the additional counters until after the life was gained based on the toughness of the tokens, so it would really only add 3 either way. Anyway Tomer gained well over 360k life in that moment.
I have a 6th doctor deck specifically made to break legendary rule and I consistently use trostani to make many many trostanis. One game I had 19 Ojer Taqs, and populated 1 of my 3 trostani tokens... 😅
With one [[Righteous Valkyrie]] on the battlefield and with X of them entering as copies, the formula for life gained (assuming you are already have 7 more than starting life total) is `X * (X+1) * (4+2X)`. This means Tomer would have gained 6720 life with X=14. You only need X of 7 to gain 1008 life.
I think that's slightly off. When I did the math I got (X^2) * (4 + 2(X+1)). The expression on the right side of the multiplier is the toughness of each creature. Since X Valkyries are entering and 1 is already in play, every creature gets +2 for X+1 Valkyries (since they buff themselves). Let's call this expression T = 4 + 2(X+1) The left expression comes from a bit of simplification, but there are two pieces. The original Valkyrie sees X new ones enter, so it gains X*T life, and each new Valkyries sees the other X-1 Valkyries enter, so they each gain (X-1)*T, meaning you have X instances of that, or X*(X-1)*T. Adding these together would be T*(X + X*(X-1)), which simplifies to (X^2)*T. With X=14 new Valkyries entering in addition to the original, Tomer would've gained 14^2*(4+2(14+1))=6664 life
I got 7596 life. 16 valks mean 36 toughness. First valk sees 15 enter the battlefield. 15 x 36 = 540 life Other 15 valks see the other ones entering. 14 x 36 = 504. Happens 14 times. 504 x 14 = 7056. Add the original to get 7596 life gained
that trouble of pairs looked so good, seth was totally keeping up with the 5 cards a turn tomer was drawing and the 20 cards a turn phil was drawing /s
Serra Avatars power and toughness are equal to your life. Give her lifelink and double strike. Or equip with celestial mantle to double your life every atk u do damage. That's x8 life every turn u swing
Great Garfield, Tomer! A Crested Sunmare w/ an easy life-gain trigger is usually enough to bury a table. A legion of Archangels of Thune would be kinda beautiful, though.
21:46 So, here’s a fix for your little issue: instead of defending yourself, or clamming up into “leave me alone” or “invisible” mode. Thank them for the better idea and learn from your mistakes ;)
@@wedgearyxsaber One With the Multiverse only lets you cast for free during your turn. It looks to me like Phil had two creatures and no mana left untapped. I think Crim was stuck on the play of bouncing Heliod's Intervention so he could cast it again later. That way Clever Concealment would also have been used up. When he realized that wasn't legal, he either didn't consider bouncing Clever Concealment, or decided it wasn't worth it.
Took me a second to realize that Crim was cosplaying Gambit! He pulls it off so well I thought he was just wearing a jacket and gloves cause he was cold!
People should start using d10s for creature counters. Makes it easy to show counters up to 99 with just 2 dice. I don't understand how it's not more common. I'm the only one in my lgs that doesn't use d6s.
At 22:41, it's worth noting that Tomer doesn't actually have to cast Veil of Summer to give Crim another round of priority, he just has to tap a land. Tapping a land is a special action, and 117.4 says: "117.4 If all players pass in succession (that is, if all players pass without taking any actions in between passing), the spell or ability on top of the stack resolves or, if the stack is empty, the phase or step ends."
This would have been a fun episode to see 'Trostani, Selesnya's Voice' with tokens of creatures the size of your lifetotal so each populate will dubble your life.
If the valkyries enter 1 at a time, I think you 12 to enter to reach 1000 (working below). If I mathed correctly, 11 will get you 990, so they would have won with only 11. I'm not sure if the valkyries 'see' their own +2/+2 buffs as they enter so I've tried to calculate it with only buffs from valkyries already on the filed. ETB trigger count : Valkyries already on the field : valkyrie toughness this step : Life gained this step : total life gained 1: 0 : 4 : 0 : 0 2 : 1 : 6 : 6 : 6 3 : 2 : 8 : 16 : 22 4 : 3 : 10 : 30 : 52 5 : 4 : 12 : 48 : 100 6 : 5 : 14 : 70 : 170 7 : 6 : 16 : 96 : 266 8 : 7 : 18 : 126 : 392 9 : 8 : 20 : 160 : 552 10 : 9 : 22 : 198 : 750 11 : 10 : 24 : 240 : 990 12 : 11 : 26 : 286 : 1276
so the righteous/reflection: when they enter they all see each other enter, they all give +2/+2 so with 14 total they give +28/+28, for a total tougness of 32 on each of them, all thirteen entering will trigger the 14 valkeries each so the total math equation is 32*13*14 a generic version of the equation is (2x+4)(x+1)(x) where x is the number of copies entering, because of this equation we know the minimum copies that need to enter is 7 to reach 1000 life
A first to put "100 cards in your hand" episode would be fun too, same thing as this episode, no infinites, also good luck because your gone have 0 permanents in play (other than tokens)
Could Seth have let the Mystic Reflection resolve and then used Return the Favor to copy the Elendra's Hierophant death trigger and win with Tomer's Hierophant trigger on the stack?
According to my calculations: since Tomer would make 15 copies of Righteous Valkyrie, they would be 34/36. The original one sees 15 enter and each of the 15 sees 14 enter, so you get a total of 15+15×14 triggers. Total life gained: 36×15×15=8100 At the end of the video I count 28 lands which would be 48608 life gained from the valkyries (not counting the soul sister triggers that end up putting +1/+1 counters on them if you want to maximize it)
The original valk sees 15 entering. The original makes 540 life. But the other 15 valks only see 14 entering. It happens 14 times per valk. 14 x 36 = 504. 14 x 504 = 7056. Total life gain 7596
@@laytonjr6601 I counted the original valk as its own trigger because it gains more life than the ones entering. So that wasn’t part of the main equation. So it should be 14 valks entering x 14 valks triggering x 36 toughness = 7056. Then 540 life from the original. Total 7596. Only the original valk triggers 15 times. The other ones that come after trigger 14 times. They only see the other valks that enter, not themselves.
On this week of "Punt or Bluff?" The Millennium Calendar is the key. Will Crim delve deeply into ancient Aztec rituals or will Phil have some sort of value combo to win? Tune-in to find out!
I am assuming other rules involve say you don’t lose the game for 0 cards in library, 0 life, instant win/lose effects, etc? If so I would run transcendence.
@@michaelcollins4534 The format would clearly require some form of minimum price restriction. And/or maybe your starting life total is impacted by the deck value, so budget means starting precariously low. =P
So... I just had the thought that when everyone is trying to get to 1000 life, setting your opponent back and gaining life through that might be one of the most effective strategies. Like say everyone is at 300-ish, Hidetsugu with lifelink will just give you 450 life on the spot.
I would have brought Heartless Hidetsugu to this challenge. Perfect for this. "But... Isn't that mono red? The commander doesn't even have life gain synergies, wtf?" At face value, sure. But what happens if you use a colorless equipment card to give Heartless Hidetsugu Lifelink? And what happens when all your opponents are playing Life decks to increase their own life totals as high as possible? The more life they gain, the more damage Hidetsugu deals, and if all his damage gains me life, I can win very easily while keeping everyone else's life in check because it's still Red and that's what Red does best... Mono Red Lifegain, baby!
Pretty sure if the reflection goes off they all enter as 36/38 from there own effects then you gain 17 x 38 life with is 646 so you didn’t have game anyways
Tomer, bubby, I'm gonna tell you something I was told many years ago: If you're gonna make a mistake and you know it, make it big! How is anyone supposed to notice that you may need help if you hide your mistakes? Fwiw, that was a perfectly fine pronunciation. Have some faith in yourself my guy!
i think that Kenrith would be a good choice to these matchs, he has skills that really can help to make so much things, Heal, Draw, Ressurection, and all, it's a good choice
![[#2024MAMA] BIGBANG (빅뱅) - 뱅뱅뱅 (BANG BANG BANG) + FANTASTIC BABY | Mnet 241123 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EQsYfiPR9uM/mqdefault.jpg)
Worth mentioning, the rules for this one was no infinite combos. You can do whatever you want to gain life, as long as it's not infinite. Also we banned cards that say "players/opponents can't gain life."
Smart, it makes the challenge that less cheap.
Was Leyline of Punishment legal though?
Is Judith and b-act a combo? 😅
Watch Crim’s deck list have tainted remedy
@@bardhoagWell that wouldn't be infinite so yeah that would be totally fine with these rules.
Crim - "I didnt make you waste it, I'm just illiterate" All time quote right there
This was one of the crazier edits I've had to do, but WOW! Such a crazy, fun game!
Bless you
Thanks for your work, man!
how long wa the whole game
@@mralumina3566 Roughly 2h 45m
@@geeknseek you deserve absolute praise for this. I've edited videos before, my brain would be liquified. How in the world do you do it? Lol
I think a "First to draw their entire deck fairly" episode would be fun too, same thing as this episode, no infinites, just draw all 99
I can almost do that with my Gale deck.
It'd be cool, but there are a couple cards that kind of trivialize the challenge to draw all 99
Mordenkainen goes brr
What if someone exiles a card from their library so they can't draw 99? And if that doesn't lose them the game, why not exile all but the last card and draw that to win? What about milling?
@pa7764 They could just rule 0 that stuff out, same way they seem to have rule 0'd reducing a player to 0 life in this video.
Is no one gonna talk about how Crim is doing a Gambit cosplay?
The Ragin' Asian
@@marcozijlmans3953It really just wrote itself didn’t it?
wdym, you don't hang around at home in cosplay?
Thank you, I thought wolverine, obviously that wasn't right, then Cyclops, same thing, it's like I could place it but couldn't identify it.
What cosplay?
love how crim will dress up like a comic book character in front of thousands of people but can't say clash on with his friends lol
We should totally do a Catan style achievement system, longest road, most settlements, ports and so on. Wonder what that would look like in Magic form...1000 life is a fun alternate win con.
I wanted this for my group, but the arms race eventually put them in cedh and they do NOT want to return to casual.
For them, I complained a lot. And i complained a lot, bc they were only interested in winning.
Biggest Stick (Greatest Power)
Bakery (Greatest Toughness)
Gold Digger (Most Thefts)
Kingdom (Most Lands)
Legion (Most Creatures)
Artificer (Most Artifacts)
Savant (Most Enchantments)
Traveler (Most Planeswalkers)
Scholar (Most Sorceries Cast)
Objection! (Most Instants Cast)
Farmer (Most Food)
Treasurer (Most Treasure)
Investigator (Most Clues)
Explorer (Most Maps)
Glass Jaw (Lose to a single attack)
Etc.
Each is worth 2 points, or half if acquired through Tokens. (Excluding token specific achievements.)
@@nCedric1 Winning is the point of the game???
@@JustAChickn I know it sounds ridiculous, but to me commander is like showing off a presentation about a topic or thematic. Even Voltron (one dude against armies)
@@nCedric1Not ridiculous. The beauty of commander is the fact it is inherently less competitive than all other formats. I would go so far as to say the main goal of a commander game is not to win, but rather have fun / have your deck do its “thing.”
Esix should only target the first activation of creating a token each turn, and Tomer had already made a treasure toke from the undercity at his upkeep.
Esix 's effect is actually only on your own turns.
@@TastesLikeNachos yep, and the undercity created the treasure token during his upkeep
It would have been very funny on MtGO
Tomer don’t worry, it’s pronounced “hierophant”
😂
how helpful
slight correction, it’s actually pronounced “hierophant”
It’s pronounced HIEROPHANT GREEN!
@@daniellawson9894you fool! You shall witness the power of *_ZA WARUDO!_*
Can we all say a prayer for the editor this week. The true hero of this episode
Many thanks 🙏
That stack battle at like 20 minutes was freaking hilarious. 😂
I think Crim broke the Commander Clash record for causing the single largest life loss ever. 416 life down at 59:16
That is no where near close for record of life loss for them XD
A long while back on moto, Seth delt so much damage it crashed the game iirc, and the later calculation was like 1 x 10²⁰ or something nuts like that
Nyxbloom punch would like a word
It was 406. He was at 416 and got to 10. And the he got the world biggest life gain. 600000 ish or smth)
At least the most amount of damage a magister sphinx has ever dealt
59:32 Tomer making a Treasure Token here is actually the first token he makes on his turn, which means that Esix wouldn't have triggered later on with the Avenger of Zendikar.
"I'm going to make a treasure token; why not?" This is EXACTLY why not! Lol.
Too bad no one caught it!
I dunno if that treasure token was mandatory or not, but that would have been the first Esix trigger that turn, which meant it couldn't have been used for the Avenger of Zendikar
No. He has the option to Goad something. He chooses to Goad the Solemn or whatever, which gives him the option to use Esix for the Avenger.
commenting to see if anyone noticed that esix's trigger should have been wasted on the treasure tomer made at the beginning of his turn. it is a once per turn effect
Man I really enjoy Phil's deckbuilding. All of it just feels so clean with the synergies.
He’s a terrible deck builder.
He plays no interaction. He’ll never be able to contribute to helping stop other players from winning the game.
Play a deck that’s faster than his and he has no chance.
@@dgreenlonghorn1 that doesn't make Phil a "terrible deck builder". he just clearly doesn't build towards the goal you want him to build. and he clearly doesn't care.
@@dgreenlonghorn1god shut up
He just puts the cards that generate the most value in his decks depending on theme. It's uninspired honestly.
@@BludMun Yeah better play 10 sweepers, much more inspired
Props on even playing that game - besides the exact count of the counters on Tomer's creatures, I think you guys actually got all the rules right. And props to editing all that as well.
22:15 after this was the funniest stuff I've heard in a while 😂" I cast my veil or summer for zero value " 😂 tomer cracks me up
Setting Tomers life to 10 made me laugh so hard I cried
For some reason I find it delightful that Phil has the phrase "out the wazoo" in his personal lexicon. No idea what his relationship with the English language is, but that's a phrase you could go a long time without coming across if you don't hang around a lot of Americans of a particular age.
My favorite commander clashes are the ones with crazy and insane premises, and this is no exception! Great game and great video!
By my math, Tomer ended up on 53,857 life. This is based on my count of him having 28 lands and 3 permanents that gain him 1 life whenever a creature ETBs. Also, just 8 Righteous Valkyries entering the battlefield at the same time is enough to gain 1280 life (assuming you are starting with at least 7 more life than your starting life total).
If anyone is wondering why the Valkyrie situation works out like that (like I was); it can be helpful to remember that each additional Valkyrie is not only an additional +2/+2 aura, but an additional trigger of it's ability. So the formula for calculation would be a summation from 1 to n, where n is the number of Valkyries entering, with the summation term being: (4+2n)(n). 4 comes from the original toughness of the Valkyrie, and 2n comes from the fact that each Valkyrie creates a new +2/+2 aura. Then, you multiply by n for each individual Valkyrie that has already entered. For instance, the first copied Valkyrie, n=1, is as follows, it receives the original Valkyries buff, becoming a 4/6, and then triggers the original Valkyries ability, gaining 6 life. The second copy then enters, receiving the previous 2 auras, becoming a 6/8; and upon entering triggers BOTH of the previous two valkyries abilities (both the original and the copy). Meaning, he would gain 8+8 or 8*2, 16 life. This process continues from this point, with both the auras getting larger, and the number of triggers increasing as well; leading to the life gained to increase rapidly. Leading to a final value of: 6 + 16 + 30 + 48 + 70 + 96 + 126 + 160 + 198 + 240 + 286 + 336 + 390 + 448 + 510= 2960 (at least if I'm right about him putting 15 tokens onto the battlefield after resolving the first valkyrie).
Edit: Minor correction, or possible misunderstanding on my part. The second valkyrie might enter as a 6/8. I was under the impression that the aura effect would not come into affect during the other valkyries triggers, but I believe that is incorrect. So the summation changes to (4+2(n+1))(n). The n plus one is just there to catch that the aura of valkyrie that is currently entering is also triggered.
@@loganvannevel9104 The valkyries are all entering simultaneously. This means that they are all buffing each other, and that they all see each other enter. Thus, the formula is (4+2m)(m)(n) where 'm' is the number of valkyries on the field and 'n' is the number that entered simultaneously.
There are two other ways of setting this up that lead to different outcomes. The one that happened leads to the most life, and the one you assumed leads to the least. You treated this as each valkyrie being a separate object on the stack (this would be what would happen if you copied the valkyrie while it was a spell however many times), and thus all the triggers from each one resolve before the next one enters.
The last way to set this up is so they enter sequentially but from the same effect. In this scenario, they would all be buffing each other when the life-gain triggers resolve, but they don't all see each other enter. This would be equal to (4+2m)(n^2/2 + n/2) life where 'm' is the total number of valyries and 'n' is the number that entered sequentially.
Crim's gameplan being to just take advantage of everyone else's life is the most Crim thing possible
These alternate win conditions and rules games are definitely my favorite of this channel.
Geez, Tomer dominated that one. He threatened a win over and over.
Great job, man!
Tomer hating it when people put their mana rocks/ dorks in their lands. Finally, someone on the right team
Isn't it technically also against the rules?
Same reason you cannot hide the dryad-forest thingy amongst your lands I think.
@@_claymore in a tournament setting probably. Most commander players don’t know the rules
@@_claymore you're allowed to put mana rocks with your lands, but anything that's a creature (ie dryad arbor) has to be in front with your other creatures
@@samogburn2662 oh really? I thought it was lands in one line, everything else in front. good to know, thx
@@_claymore No problem! Its definitely a weird fringe rule. For reference its in the Magic Tournament Rules section 4.7
43:20 for anyone curious:
15 total RVs. 1 RV sees 14 enter.
All are getting +2/+2 (x15), so each has 34 toughness. The first one will then gain life for each of the 14 new ones, so 34×14 = 476.
Then you'll have 14 instances of each token RV gaining 34 life for each other RV. So that will be 14x34x13=6188. 476+6188=6664 life gained. 6737 total life since Tomer was at 73.
1:01:15
Stcking all triggers properly, I believe there are 3 "Enter gain 1" sources and counting lands it looks like 27 including the 14 token lands.
So first 27*3 is 81 putting us at 94, which means all 28 RVs (27 tokens plus the real one) are giving +2/+2. So each one has a nice easy 60 toughness.
The original one will gain 27x60 life for 1620. The other 27 will each have 26 instances of gaining 60 life because they don't see themselves. So 26x27x60 for 42,120. Plus the 1620 and the 94 starting gives us 43,834.
You may have noticed that you can simply this by shortcutting to a square.
Number of tokens =X
Their toughness =Y
X² × Y life gained.
It doesn't appear obvious right away because they all say "another" but it works. So, if I missed the land count, then the numbers need changed, but I didn't hear a definite number and went with what I could see.
Oh, and if you want to add Archangel of Thune, that adds an extra 81 counters to each RV from the Soul Warden effects meaning we gain 102,789, except another counter is added between each instance. This means that there are 27² instances of life gain.
729, to be exact. How do we do this? We actually have a formula for adding consecutive numbers, and since this is just a single point increase in each instance, that's all this is. Using the Gauss sum formula, we can find that this will add a cumulative total for the counters added between each trigger resolving. So add another 266,450 life on top of our 102,789.
So that puts us round 369,239 life gained. This is still not the exact amount because I didn't even include the life from the Avenger itself entering. But you would either gain that life first and not get counters on the tokens or gain if after all of their triggers resolve and not gain the additional counters until after the life was gained based on the toughness of the tokens, so it would really only add 3 either way. Anyway Tomer gained well over 360k life in that moment.
@@r4g1ngph03n1x (x)(x-1)(Y)=total gain?
Feel like Oloro stax would have been funny, assemble Karn Lattice or some other hardlock, a way to stop opponents from decking and wait 500 turns
Wouldn't everyone just deck out before you reached 1000? (Including yourself, potentially first)
@@patrickchickey6428 yeah, you would need a card to stop this, but there are a couple of options
elixir of immortality@@patrickchickey6428
Crim is about to make a name for himself
Not Tomer whispering Uro when he discards it. 😂
is Crim cosplaying as Vetega?
This not being the top comment is a travesty
I'm surprised that no one went with Trostani, Selesnya's Voice, my personal life gain Commander
I have a 6th doctor deck specifically made to break legendary rule and I consistently use trostani to make many many trostanis. One game I had 19 Ojer Taqs, and populated 1 of my 3 trostani tokens... 😅
With one [[Righteous Valkyrie]] on the battlefield and with X of them entering as copies, the formula for life gained (assuming you are already have 7 more than starting life total) is `X * (X+1) * (4+2X)`. This means Tomer would have gained 6720 life with X=14. You only need X of 7 to gain 1008 life.
I think that's slightly off. When I did the math I got (X^2) * (4 + 2(X+1)).
The expression on the right side of the multiplier is the toughness of each creature. Since X Valkyries are entering and 1 is already in play, every creature gets +2 for X+1 Valkyries (since they buff themselves). Let's call this expression T = 4 + 2(X+1)
The left expression comes from a bit of simplification, but there are two pieces. The original Valkyrie sees X new ones enter, so it gains X*T life, and each new Valkyries sees the other X-1 Valkyries enter, so they each gain (X-1)*T, meaning you have X instances of that, or X*(X-1)*T. Adding these together would be T*(X + X*(X-1)), which simplifies to (X^2)*T.
With X=14 new Valkyries entering in addition to the original, Tomer would've gained 14^2*(4+2(14+1))=6664 life
X=15: the Hierophant creates X creatures where X is its power, and it was a 1/1 with 14 +1/+1 counters
@@patrickchickey64288100 life actually because X=15
@@skykur the equation makes it easier to compute the result for whatever the number of Valkyries entering is
I got 7596 life.
16 valks mean 36 toughness. First valk sees 15 enter the battlefield. 15 x 36 = 540 life
Other 15 valks see the other ones entering. 14 x 36 = 504. Happens 14 times. 504 x 14 = 7056. Add the original to get 7596 life gained
Imo a Bilbo, Birthday Celebrant deck would be crazy, you could gain into 111 life or more and then drop all of your creature life gain effects at once
Lmao Crim having the cards that reset his opponents to lower numbers is so perfect
Anyone else do a double-take when Seth said "fog" at 37:34? XD
Very good week and I hope you were all able to keep your sanity with all those triggers happening.
Omg that Mystic Reflection play would have been awesome! ❤❤❤ Good stuff Tomer.
Pours one out for the editor this week 💜
Thanks 🍻
That Rise Against-reference in the Gambit-cosplay got me quite good at the start of the game
that trouble of pairs looked so good, seth was totally keeping up with the 5 cards a turn tomer was drawing and the 20 cards a turn phil was drawing /s
Serra Avatars power and toughness are equal to your life. Give her lifelink and double strike. Or equip with celestial mantle to double your life every atk u do damage. That's x8 life every turn u swing
Great Garfield, Tomer! A Crested Sunmare w/ an easy life-gain trigger is usually enough to bury a table.
A legion of Archangels of Thune would be kinda beautiful, though.
8:35 in case anyone’s wondering, it’s pronounced hierophant
You’re wrong it’s pronounced hierophant
21:46 So, here’s a fix for your little issue: instead of defending yourself, or clamming up into “leave me alone” or “invisible” mode. Thank them for the better idea and learn from your mistakes ;)
These weird type games are super fun! Keep them coming!!
Did I miss something? Why didn't Crim sink into stupor the phasing spell to get the destroy off on both of Phil's enchantments? 😅
I'm guessing Phil could use one with the multiverse to cast it for free?? Or convoke and then spend remaining mana to cast it?
@@wedgearyxsaber One With the Multiverse only lets you cast for free during your turn. It looks to me like Phil had two creatures and no mana left untapped. I think Crim was stuck on the play of bouncing Heliod's Intervention so he could cast it again later. That way Clever Concealment would also have been used up. When he realized that wasn't legal, he either didn't consider bouncing Clever Concealment, or decided it wasn't worth it.
Seth did nothing but "you're plans are foiled because I love spending time with friends" all game xD
This is the perfect deck to run that wall that exchanges its toughness and the life totals of target opponent
Took me a second to realize that Crim was cosplaying Gambit! He pulls it off so well I thought he was just wearing a jacket and gloves cause he was cold!
Hell yeah, Crim! Rocking my 1993 halloween costume as Gambit!
People should start using d10s for creature counters. Makes it easy to show counters up to 99 with just 2 dice. I don't understand how it's not more common. I'm the only one in my lgs that doesn't use d6s.
I ENJOY ALL OF YALLS THEMED GAMES KEEP IT UP
At 22:41, it's worth noting that Tomer doesn't actually have to cast Veil of Summer to give Crim another round of priority, he just has to tap a land. Tapping a land is a special action, and 117.4 says:
"117.4 If all players pass in succession (that is, if all players pass without taking any actions in between passing), the spell or ability on top of the stack resolves or, if the stack is empty, the phase or step ends."
What an awesome episode!!!
Y'all need to stop bullying Phil for his placement it's perfectly fine everything is super clear just open your eyes 😂😂
woah loving the recent themes. Keep it up, y'all
Crim's laughter at Tomer's Sink into Stupor was the best.
This would have been a fun episode to see 'Trostani, Selesnya's Voice' with tokens of creatures the size of your lifetotal so each populate will dubble your life.
The non stop talking over reading One With the Multiverse is nuts
If the valkyries enter 1 at a time, I think you 12 to enter to reach 1000 (working below). If I mathed correctly, 11 will get you 990, so they would have won with only 11.
I'm not sure if the valkyries 'see' their own +2/+2 buffs as they enter so I've tried to calculate it with only buffs from valkyries already on the filed.
ETB trigger count : Valkyries already on the field : valkyrie toughness this step : Life gained this step : total life gained
1: 0 : 4 : 0 : 0
2 : 1 : 6 : 6 : 6
3 : 2 : 8 : 16 : 22
4 : 3 : 10 : 30 : 52
5 : 4 : 12 : 48 : 100
6 : 5 : 14 : 70 : 170
7 : 6 : 16 : 96 : 266
8 : 7 : 18 : 126 : 392
9 : 8 : 20 : 160 : 552
10 : 9 : 22 : 198 : 750
11 : 10 : 24 : 240 : 990
12 : 11 : 26 : 286 : 1276
Crim was so excited to be the monarch he overlooked that it was introduced by Court of Ardenvale
This game had me chuckling and laughing the entire time. 😁
Seth really recreated the defective turret sabotage from Portal 2 when he forked the combo setup to stop Tomer
so the righteous/reflection:
when they enter they all see each other enter, they all give +2/+2 so with 14 total they give +28/+28, for a total tougness of 32 on each of them, all thirteen entering will trigger the 14 valkeries each so the total math equation is 32*13*14 a generic version of the equation is (2x+4)(x+1)(x) where x is the number of copies entering, because of this equation we know the minimum copies that need to enter is 7 to reach 1000 life
That Mystic Reflection! 15 righteous valkyries!!!!
44:38
For anyone curious, the amount of life gained would have been 8100 even.
He would have gained 6664 life
A first to put "100 cards in your hand" episode would be fun too, same thing as this episode, no infinites, also good luck because your gone have 0 permanents in play (other than tokens)
Amazing episode
Could Seth have let the Mystic Reflection resolve and then used Return the Favor to copy the Elendra's Hierophant death trigger and win with Tomer's Hierophant trigger on the stack?
Heirophant: eye - row - fant
According to my calculations: since Tomer would make 15 copies of Righteous Valkyrie, they would be 34/36. The original one sees 15 enter and each of the 15 sees 14 enter, so you get a total of 15+15×14 triggers.
Total life gained: 36×15×15=8100
At the end of the video I count 28 lands which would be 48608 life gained from the valkyries (not counting the soul sister triggers that end up putting +1/+1 counters on them if you want to maximize it)
The original valk sees 15 entering. The original makes 540 life. But the other 15 valks only see 14 entering. It happens 14 times per valk. 14 x 36 = 504. 14 x 504 = 7056.
Total life gain 7596
@@skykur you're missing something: 15 Valkyries see 14 entering so it's 15×14×36= 15×504 and not 14×504
@@laytonjr6601 I counted the original valk as its own trigger because it gains more life than the ones entering. So that wasn’t part of the main equation.
So it should be 14 valks entering x 14 valks triggering x 36 toughness = 7056. Then 540 life from the original. Total 7596.
Only the original valk triggers 15 times. The other ones that come after trigger 14 times. They only see the other valks that enter, not themselves.
@@skykur
@laytonjr6601 is correct. 15 enter after the original. There are 16 total, so each one entering triggers 15 others.
The Tomer Salt 🧂😂
Thank you Seth
Amazing prompt lol, great game
42:15 wow this part!
Richard looks weird with dyed hair. Also, super disappointed in Seth not having turn 1 soul sister.
I like the oddball stuff you can do by playing in paper instead of mtgo
Life swap wouldve been so funny this week
Tree Of Perdition. 0/13 Plant
(3)(B) Defender.
Tap- exchange this card’s toughness with target opponent’s life total.
On this week of "Punt or Bluff?" The Millennium Calendar is the key. Will Crim delve deeply into ancient Aztec rituals or will Phil have some sort of value combo to win? Tune-in to find out!
where can i find that 6 color token that phil uses to keep track of floating mana?
SPOILER
Sick play by Tomer, hiding the valkyrie with Chord of calling
But equally sick save by Seth
It's real easy to spray paint a burger king crown and have the coolest crown in town.
I am assuming other rules involve say you don’t lose the game for 0 cards in library, 0 life, instant win/lose effects, etc?
If so I would run transcendence.
I feel like mono white Light-Paws would be nice for this. My Light-Paws deck gets up in the 10s of thousands pretty easily.
Don't know why, but seeing "first to 1000" in the title made me think "first to destroy $1000 of cardboard." Another possible theme episode. =P
Budget decks op there
@@michaelcollins4534 The format would clearly require some form of minimum price restriction. And/or maybe your starting life total is impacted by the deck value, so budget means starting precariously low. =P
@erfunk I like the idea of your value being your life total
Anytime a card get exiled they have to physically tear it in half. The first player who destroy a 1000$ worth of cards win the game !
So... I just had the thought that when everyone is trying to get to 1000 life, setting your opponent back and gaining life through that might be one of the most effective strategies.
Like say everyone is at 300-ish, Hidetsugu with lifelink will just give you 450 life on the spot.
I wanna see tomars deck in a regular game, there is some sweet stuff in that list
I would have brought Heartless Hidetsugu to this challenge. Perfect for this.
"But... Isn't that mono red? The commander doesn't even have life gain synergies, wtf?"
At face value, sure. But what happens if you use a colorless equipment card to give Heartless Hidetsugu Lifelink? And what happens when all your opponents are playing Life decks to increase their own life totals as high as possible? The more life they gain, the more damage Hidetsugu deals, and if all his damage gains me life, I can win very easily while keeping everyone else's life in check because it's still Red and that's what Red does best... Mono Red Lifegain, baby!
Closest I've ever come is nearly 600 when resolving a Blasphemous Act with a tamanoa on the field
Sad to see no The Archimadrite.
Would've loved to see big draw and hand sizes, then getting big life gain from the Ivory Tower effects.
Pretty sure if the reflection goes off they all enter as 36/38 from there own effects then you gain 17 x 38 life with is 646 so you didn’t have game anyways
44:20 favorite moment
Tomer, bubby, I'm gonna tell you something I was told many years ago: If you're gonna make a mistake and you know it, make it big! How is anyone supposed to notice that you may need help if you hide your mistakes?
Fwiw, that was a perfectly fine pronunciation. Have some faith in yourself my guy!
I wish Tomer had played his Zedruu deck and gave someone a Platinum Emperion. Lol
I think that counts under the "players can't get life" ban
@@laytonjr6601 aw true
i think that Kenrith would be a good choice to these matchs, he has skills that really can help to make so much things, Heal, Draw, Ressurection, and all, it's a good choice
I just accidentaly did this the other day by doing scoot swarm into soul warden. Then cracked aftermath analysis
To be honest, I don't see a point in banning the infinites when you're not going to ban the significantly easier methods too.
Tomer coulda just taped a land to make another round of priority for the clever concealment stack
That Sink Into Stupor @ 56:42 was both spot-on and hilarious. Great play.
Surprised no one just made a super big creature and then swords to plowshares their own creature
Have not watched yet but let’s go Grim oloro deck ❤️🤣