Why Do Mormons Lie About Their Church?
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- Опубликовано: 4 июл 2024
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I have to tell a personal story about the dress code in the church. When my husband and I were young newlyweds he was in the army so we were transferred here and there. One ward we attended was in Oklahoma. My second child was a newborn and frequently had to be walked around in the back of the chapel to be soothed. I stayed in the room so I could hear te addresses as long as the baby was quiet. My mother had sent me a lovely outfit as a gift and I was wearing it for the first time one Sunday. A beautiful patterned top and matching palazzo pants. Mind you, the legs of these pants were sooooooo hugely full that it absolutely looked like a skirt and went all the way over my ankles. Modest and attractractive. And definitely not easily detectible as a split skirt or "pants." But as I was at the back of the chapel on the isle apparently I stood with my legs fairly far apart to sway with my babe. And that was enough for the bishopric on the stand to see daylight between the wildly full legs of my split skirt. Later that week a member of the bishopric visited us at our home and informed me that I could not wear that outfit again. Seriously inappropriate, apparently. Let me tell you, I was miffed! Every inch of my skin, save my hands and face were modestly covered!!!! I was not inclined to abandon the outfit as I had so few. So I did what any woman who had been schooled by a stupid man enforcing a stupid rule...I remade the palazzo pants into a rather short flirtly flared skirt. My knees peeked out. A small wind would have exposed my ass easily. But it was the "required" skirt and I felt wickedly vindicated everytime I wore it. No more complaints. Should have recognized the beginning of the end of my membership right there.
“How DARE YOU!”
Signed,
Sister Greta
I’d think I’d have sewn the inner seams together! But then I’ve offered to just make kids who want to wear their pants so their crotch is at their knee a pair of pants that fit at their waist, they didn’t have to hang on to for fear they’d fall down, and with the crotch cut to their knees -- so fr no takers😥
A friend (non-Mormon like me) told me about a man he knew who was going to be barred from attending his son's temple wedding because he wasn't in good standing with his tithing. The thing was - the man was already in debt for borrowing money to pay for his son's mission. Where is the mercy?
Mormon con man don't care they just want your money
I'm sorry. What is this word "mercy" you use? Never heard or seen I in the church.
Yes, tithing is a requirement. I was asked when I was 12 (going into the young women program) if I paid a full tithe. I said I didn't. (My parents never told me I needed to) The bishop told me it was necessary. No bishop will tell you it is optional.
That is true. They will tell you it is required. I just choose not to believe them.
while I can understand asking adult people who earn money to pay voluntary membership fees for an organization you chose to belong to, but asking CHILDREN to give you portion of their allowance is borderline child abuse and is abhorrent. Those people should be ashamed of themselves!
@@Coastal1931it’s perfectly reasonable for a billion dollar organization to demand little Timmy gives ten percent of his birthday money. 🙄
@@Coastal1931I hope you stretched before that reach
I agreed and the Mormon is NOT honest about the tithing.. the stake encouraged me to pay full tithing when I was Branch Presidency and my ex wife and I had argument about it and we were very behind debit. We don’t paying the tithing and never works.. We decided to stop and left church and divorced and We feel a lot better and less pressure also we became as friend and we are very happy and feel less problems from Mormon church.. our 3 adult are not Active church but one of my daughter and her hubby still active. They are totally understand and respectful me!
Never mormon here. WhenI first moved to Idaho, I had a co-worker who would deny everything and even told me that members who told me otherwise were lying and he would have to report them to the proper authorities in the church that they were spreading these lies. I had mormon friends who told me about garments and when I asked my co-worker, he said the members were lying to me and because I was new to the area and had few friends, he could narrow down who had told me and ratted them out to the bishops or whoever. My friends eventually told me to not bring things they had told me up with others because they had gotten into trouble for spreading lies.
That's insane.
Actually, I'd be willing to bet they got in trouble for sharing "meat" instead of "milk" with you, it probably wasn't phrased as lying. Since what thy told you is actually true, but you have to be indoctrinated to a certain level before those more "elevated" truths were shared. Only _special_ believers learn the secret truths.
I'm a member of the church but that co-worker sounds...interesting. I hope he was joking. If not, I hope he's on the local law enforcement's radar to prevent an incident.
When my family first started going to the church, we missed a couple Sacrament meetings because the weather was icy and snowy and we didn't have snow tires. The bishop bought us snow tires and told us, "Now you don't have an excuse to miss any Sacrament meetings." I was greatful for the tires, but I felt like a kid going to the principal's office because our family missed 2 Sundays in a row and had to have a "talk" with the bishop. We left the church about a year ago when we found out that we were lied to (by church members) about random stuff in the church. They told me when we left that if they told us the "truths" straight away, we probably would of never joined the church.
Did any of your family go through the endowment? Seeing everyone dressed in temple clothes was a watershed moment for me.
That is so wild. I know people who can't attend because they work. Someone missed sacrament because he went on a date. Maybe it's because I'm in the Seattle area, but everyone is pretty chill here.
(Definitely not discounting your experience. I have definitely heard horror stories about how strict and/abusive the church can be)
You shouldn’t lie either when talking about the Mormon church. Tithing is not “buying your way into Heaven” as you allege. Tithing is a biblical principle of showing our faith in God. If you don’t have enough faith to pay tithing, then you don’t have enough faith to keep the covenants you will make in the temple. Hence, tithing is a prerequisite to attending the temple. People of many religious faiths wear special clothing to remind them daily of the covenants they have made with God. That is the purpose of LDS garments. They should be worn at all times, the same as you would wear regular underwear.
In another video you say that Mormons have family prayer 10 times a day. That’s a lie. I have never heard of any Mormon family doing that. In that video you also say that Mormons have multiple religious service each week for multiple hours. Another lie. We have one religious service a week on Sunday for two hours. You are desperately trying to prove you were indoctrinated. You weren’t. You simply chose to not believe probably because you were having sex with your boyfriend before you got married (your video on “soaking” where you say you were doing it) and decided to say you didn’t believe the church was true so it wouldn’t seem like you were breaking any commandments. I’d be willing to bet you didn’t discover the CES letter until after you decided to leave the church and needed some reasons why the church isn’t true.
I find your videos interesting but, please be honest and don’t lie or stretch the truth. You will be found out and it will discredit everything you say.
One of my first cracks was watching Gordon b. Hinkley interviewed by Larry King or Mike Wallace and realizing some of his answers weren't entirely honest....
you did not see little yale guy saying temple pentalties not in temple?
The worst interview I saw was Elder Holland lying his ass off in a BBC documentary on the church.
"Do you wear the garment day and night as instructed?"
Just because miillenials and Gen Z ignore it doesnt mean its not a rule.
I would say it is def a rule for the temple. Other than that no.
@@sarahanderson7594 It's not just for the temple--It's for ALL times. If you're constantly taking your garmies off, you are definitely not following the rules.
@@sarahanderson7594 Looks like someone missed General Conference.
Rule? Or commandment? Or suggestion? Or personal covenant with God?
@@mylesmarkson1686 yes. I should’ve added that you don’t wear garments unless you have been to the temple.
Someone had a dig at me for wearing trousers in the middle of winter (we had snow). I said if you do not like it, I will not attend meetings. Nothing else was said . Later on In sacrament meeting an announcement was made that sister could wear trousers on bad weather.
I (a guy) started wearing blue docs to church. When they wore out I got red ones. I mean red ! Later I grew a beard, and then a ponytail. Then I stopped wearing a suit and tie and white shirt. Nobody said anything, except for a few positive comments from sisters !
There are women in Japan who wear pants to church and the temple. First time I saw it I was surprised. Then my brain started thinking again and I remembered that there are a lot of cultural things that go on in SLC that do not go on in say Alabama or Japan or Germany.
your probably ,sexy as hell ,and all the blue hairs are lustfully remembering there own happy days while ,drinking you right in, That’ll keep the fantasy going till next Sunday. 😅
sounds like cult
As an ex Catholic, I feel like Mormons looked at the Catholic tithing bs from the middle ages and were like, "Yes!! Pay to get out of your sins!! That's IT!" And brought it back and ran with it.
Just curious, wat human creature pulled u out of the Catholic Church?
THE Catholic Church that is the largest, yes even more so than the richer Mormon church, charity organization in THE WORLD, bar none.
I am an ex-Catholic as well and they still have a “pay to pray” mentality. But when you really think about it praying itself can be thought of as bribing God!
It’s disingenuous when they say tithing is optional. When a hungry family is told to tithe before paying the bills, that’s not optional.
How do Mormons in good standing who tithe and toe the line feel about Mormons who can’t go to the temple because they aren’t tithing? Do people who aren’t tithing go to services or do they have to stay home?
Paying my USA tax's are optional too !! Pay 10% on whatever your check stub says is NET icome! Why are most mormons I know self employed- lmao
I once had a member in a comment section tell me that tithing was optional after I said it was required. I asked her how one gets to the temple then. She said to lie about it in the recommend interview. I’m pretty sure she was serious.
Yeah, it makes you wonder why did she need to lie in her recommend interview… it’s almost like if you told the truth and say that you didn’t pay your tithing you would be shamed for it and be denied access to the temple. I’ve also lied all the time about tithing during these interviews bc I didn’t want to get shamed by others especially if it was my own family but now I left that church not owing that scam anything 😎
Members of the Mormon church are experts at mental gymnastics.
You don't have any friends that are members of the LDS faith? What you said doesn't describe any of the friends that I have in the church. That's actually why I'm even a member to begin with, because of my wanting to be the kind of person that I saw in them.
If you leave your disagreement with our beliefs aside, what do we do that demonstrates a "mental gymnastics" type of lifestyle?
Con Artists
@@TtotheMIM the answer to your question is in this video. You should rewatch it until you have an answer.
@@michaelnicholas5587 how??
And Hebophilia, GroupThink/Shared Psychoses, Accounting, turning a blind eye to what's obviously a delusional fantasy concocted by the Pater Familiaris of Hebophiles himself. (Mr. Smith.)
It's unfortunate few of them are good at useful things.
I love how you create a safe space for conversation about these topics!
Yes. It’s self denial at one end of the spectrum and gaslighting at the extreme.
Are you friends with active members of the church? If so, would you really describe them as people who are comfortable with gaslighting others?
@@TtotheMIMYes and yes.
@@TtotheMIM not all Mormons engage in this behavior. But just because some Mormons don’t, like the ones I choose to be friends with, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t call out the ones who do.
@@piercewilson5915 I completely agree!
I was raised very strictly with all the church’s rules and it really annoys me when Mormons try to make it seem like everything is no longer an issue. My best guess is they realize on some level how insane it is for a toddler to not be allowed a two-piece bathing suit because it’s not modest, and they’re trying to sound more normal to try to lure in more members. They will learn the truth later, but maybe they’ll be baptized by then.
Yes! Or say canned responses like we are a strange and peculiar people. Who cares? It's not the weirdness or the dorkiness. It's the dishonesty and this obsession with tithing. Oh and the Patriarchy and the sex abuse
There are many atheists that I know that have made the similar types of decisions. What if this is just a case of humans trying their best to human? Honestly, I would have likely made the same decision about my toddler daughter wearing a two-piece, and my wife may have even disagreed with that decision. I will never know; I was only blessed with boys. Parenting is hard, though! I hope we're all just trying to do our best.
@@TtotheMIM I see that common thread in your comments. Everyone is just “human” and are bound to make mistakes. I find it to be pithy and doesn’t address the very real way that various commentators are expressing their experiences. It diminishes and invalidates what they are saying. Please don’t do that! Think about what they are saying instead. Maybe even say you are sorry to hear about their bad experience. And if being only “ human” is going to be a default excuse I would think the Church should be training their leaders better and to not do harm
@@dianethulin1700👏👏
@@michaelnicholas5587 I find it sickening that innocent toddlers must be taught the concept of “ modesty” because of perverts who are predatory. It’s really sad that adults in their lives are the ones who are the threats; not so-called morals that are put on a child’s natural body. They lose their innocence too soon. Children can’t just be children
I WANT MY TITHING BACK WITH INTEREST ... I grew up in the cult ... 7th generation ... I gave that money out of fear because of delusional brainwashing, not because I wanted to ... I was coerced ... GIVE ME MY FUCKING MONEY BACK!!!
Amen!
@@whittlesmcskittles5791 😇
@@Coastal1931 And what 'services' were rendered to me? Brainwashing and delusions ... what is your point here, James?
@@Coastal1931 Are you trying to justify the POS cult?
@@Coastal1931 'Protection in case something nasty happens to your nice family.' isn't really a service.
We’ll see how the mental gymnastics with garments go from now on because we had two different conference talks EXPLICITLY saying that wearing garments day and night is a requirement
I was once held back in a bus for a temple trip by church leaders when I was 13 because I wore cullottes, basically a skirt with shorts built into them. Completely modest and possibly more modest than a skirt because it wouldn't show my underwear if there ever is a breeze. The temple workers said it was technically not a skirt so I couldn't enter when everyone else could. Not only was it embarrassing because I was singled out in front of all my peers, but I got chided by the church leaders because I held one of them back who needed to watch me while everyone else participated in the baptism for the dead ceremony.
So... Yes. It was more important that they follow dress requirements to the letter than to actually let a young girl participate in their sacred ceremonies because their skirt had shorts built into the design. Also, this was my nicest outfit at the time because my family was really poor.
That’s nuts lol :o I would never be allowed in lol. I ALWAYS wear those types of skirts because feel nude with out shorts under it .
A conclusion that I have come to based on MANY conversations with TBMs since my departure from Mormonism is that a LOT of members don’t care about the standards nearly as much as I did while an active member, youth and young adults who barely read the BoM, have never read the for the strength of youth, and don’t regularly tune into conference. While the old school leadership still emphasizes things like modesty, following the WoW, church and temple attendance, etc. I think they’re also banking on cultural members who don’t care enough to deeply understand the church’s beliefs who will still pay tithing and present a good face out to the “world” without necessarily following all the standards and sometimes not even realizing how strict those standards are.
The biggest thing that keeps someone a Mormon is ignorance about it.
I agree that sometimes it’s to paint the church in a better light and make it sound less controlling or demanding.
I also think sometimes it is part of the dialogue some members use internally with themselves to justify some of their own choices - maybe they only sometimes wear their garments, or only pay some tithing, or have additional piercings, or only sometimes attend, or watch some R rated movies. They have to make themselves feel like they aren’t sinning, are ‘in good standing,’ and need a way to justify their decisions as okay. I remember doing it when they used to say caffeine was bad to justify having a coke - “it’s not specifically forbidden, just discouraged.”
Good point!
OMG the amount of control people have over other lives-all driven by the fear of going to hell!
There are two bishops that gossiped and still gossip about me to the point that no one will speak to me. I didn't do any "sin" and I certainly was not excommunicated, they just say horrible things about me so no one speaks to me when I attend. Discrimination to the max. Especially when I live a wholesome life, I am not immoral and I am mortified at what I heard them say.
I know that feeling, but in my case, bishops were more or less good guys who couldn't do anything, but gossiping, bullying and gaslighting was done by mission and stake presidents, members and missionaries. I even started recording all my conversations at church to analyze them later with a linguist and make sure I'm not crazy.
I never heard any of those things referred to as "optional" until I started seeing Morons arguing on the internet. During Sunday School lessons, from the pulpit during sacrament meeting, straight from the GAs at General Conference, they're all "required". What they say in their meetings and what they say out in the world are surprisingly different considering they're also "required" to be honest
What really gets me, is that we live in a relatively free country, there are enough rules and requirements to live in this society, eg. our jobs, raising our children, taxes, the list goes on, now we choose to bring this horrible church with its restrictions on clothing , sex, language, attendance, and so on, these people want to control our very thoughts, the sex , and dress restrictions and even what we eat ,in the privacy of our own homes is mentally crippling, after a long day of work, I want to enjoy my wife, a good novel, play ball with my kids, dog, enjoy a walk in the woods, pursue a hobby guilt free. Not sit and study church doctrine, they infuse themselves in every aspect of our lives, if you count family home evening sessions, home teaching, church twice on Sunday, primary, priesthood meetings home teaching , being told to feed the missionaries at least once a week ,going hungry once a month and giving the food money to the church, I cannot remember the name of all women’s meetings , and more, on top of all that work, most of us have two jobs to make ends meet, let’s not even talk about retirement savings. One day you wake up, and if your wife is still in bed and not left home to work, you look at each other, and think , who the hell are you? We just live in the same house, but there’s no time for romance, shared secrets, a guilt free break by ourselves, we’re too busy satisfying the church required tasks , meetings, and paying to go to heaven. I am in love with my wife! My priorities are my wife and our relationship, my child, my dog, making enough money so we can live, with less stress and finally maybe a hobby if time allows, next is the unexpected, looking after my sick aged father ( now that is a stressful job ). Finally, under the dog shit I’m shoving in the back yard ( also a labour of love ) there just might be a spark of religious concern, but I doubt it, the mental a physical anguish this cult causes, I think I’ll leave it with the dog shit. I choose to love enjoy my wife and all that I’m passionate about and leave this stinking cult under the more fragrant dog shit. I appreciate your videos, it adds clarity to my life and the direction we are headed.
Exmormon & exchristian here. Is it just me, or did you basically describe all of "religion" & that's INCLIDING Christianity as well?? Damn that hit hard! ❤ thanks, man! Loved it! Something inside guided me to read this!
@@marebear6727I wouldn't say that. I attend a protestant denomination that is somewhat "mainline" and somewhat conservative. Church is about an hour on Sunday but completely voluntary. I suppose if you are in a small enough congregation, the pastor might call to check on you if you normally come to church and miss it. But tithing is rarely ever discussed and what you choose to give is voluntary, as are any other activities at church. The minister at your church and other members only know as much or as little about your life as you choose to tell them. I had a couple of LDS friends in high school and I was amazed at how huge a role church activities played in their daily lives.
If a donation is required, it's no longer a donation. It's a fee.
Also, there is no alternate ending to The Emperor's New Clothes where the child is arrested for talking back, and the empire reeducating the masses as to how the emperor is totally wearing clothes.
I was behind on tithing and wanted to go to my niece’s wedding in the temple. My bishop told me I could pay triple tithing to get to the temple faster 😮
Melissa from the channel "Growing up in Polygamy" was mainstream LDS and when she was going to get married or get back into good graces, she was told by one of the higher ups in her church that that could be expedited if she "caught up to date" with her tithing. It was basically telling her she could BUY her way to whatever it was she needed to do in the temple. She said it rattled her to the core. It seemed so so so wrong to her. But it was just an everyday occurance to the bishop who told her to do it.
I was raised in Ohio, in a relatively small, spread out ward, and I can't count the number of times I had lessons about tithing, modesty, chastity, the word of wisdom, etc. I remember being told inspirational stories about women who had more than one piercing before Pres. Hinckley said they could only have one in each lobe over the pulpit, and how they made the tough but right decision to stop wearing multiple earrings.
I remember learning even when I was young women's age that garments were worn at all times of the day. Basically any time you were wearing clothes, you should be wearing your garments under them. Some years later, when I got endowed myself, that was still what was being taught. And I got endowed less than 10 years ago! I am not an old person. I'm not even 30!
The most frustrating part is that they just pick and choose what rules they want to follow and then claim the rules dont exist at all
Oh I learned to “lie for white Mormon Jesus” really well on my mission 😂
We’re taught to make the church look good, with leaving things out
I was told I was going to go to hell cause I had a skirt that was to short at church and had to go home
The Mormon church really trying to be that one Netflix subscription charging your account randomly every month
My spouse and I call it the temple subscription service! 😂
They already do something similar with the elderly (you know the ones on a fixed SS income) LD$ before food !
They covered all of that in Conference this time. even wear your garments night and day.
that was so cringey when the RS sister said that garments were like "putting on Jesus".
@@dreibel It's putting on garments with the secret Masonic markings.
By not paying tithing The Bretheren say that you are robbing god. So no pressure 😊
This makes me more excited not to pay my tithing! :D
God can make his own money any time he wants.. he owns planets made entirely of diamonds why would he care about our filthy lucre.. when did Jesus ever lust for cash?
@@sjenson6694exactly this! Mormon corporation has hundreds of billions. Jesus would have used that to end world hunger and homelessness. Not the mormons
@@sjenson6694 Exactly! There's an asteroid out there that's worth more than everything we've ever done on earth. From the BBC website:
Somewhere between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter lurks a massive metal asteroid known as 16 Psyche.
The asteroid is thought to contain a core of iron, nickel and gold worth a whopping $10,000 quadrillion.
That's enough money to make everyone on the planet a billionaire.
I grew up attending the Mormon church, but I was never a member. I attended a church in upstate NY, and I think there really ARE stricter rules in Utah. That said, the things you are talking about here were required for SURE in the church I went to, and I would say we were a more chill branch than some of the others, even in our area.
EDIT: I was never baptized and was still HEAVILY shamed for not paying tithing and for missing church on occasion.
Tithing is a requirement to get a recommended.
They also have started asking people for back tithing.
Started? They've been doing that for decades.
they ask for back tithing???? I've never heard that before.
It's been years ago but my brother-in-law lost his job and consequently his health insurance. A month later he was diagnosed with cancer and had to pay the full amount of the cost of his care. He refused to bankrupt and paid off every dime, omitting paying tithing while doing this. His new job wasn't very lucrative. When he want for an interview to attend the temple after his medical care he was told that he would have to make up thousands of dollars of back tithing to qualify for a recommend. Cuz God giveth and God taketh away but you better not cheat God even if he has determined to try and kill you with cancer!!!!
@@rebeccaking4493 This is one of the grossest stories I have ever seen! I am sure there are faithful members who allege this is okay and no other way to get into Heaven
@@mustanggenerations691 I think there are a variety of experiences re-asking for back tithing
My mom just got second ear piercings again and when I brought it up to her that it is against church doctrine (i am ex-mormon and they made my childhood hell due to church stuff, so I take every chance I can get to make fun of it) she told me “it’s fine” and then immediately started ranting about tattoos 🙄
They took the verbiage out of questions and booklets for the youth. A sil of mine also got more piercings when that happened. 🙃
@@piperarcher9706Did they take out the verbiage regarding tattoos, too? Either way, the piercing thing is a retcon of doctrine bc they say prophets are as good as the word of god, Hinkley says no extra piercings back in 1995-2000ish, and now they’re saying “actually that’s not a sin anymore”?
I am an ex wife - of an RLDS member who was in the military. I can confirm about the Tithes. We would receive invoices for the tithes each month. Since he got a military paycheck, they knew exactly how much money he made. It didn't matter if we lived on base (no rent payment) or if we were forced to live in civilian housing (rent payments), they would bill us for the 10% no matter what. I had to live with his parents at one point and was blown away with all the "rules". I had been raised Catholic, which has many rules as well, but they are more kind and don't require your neighbors/family members to narc you out. This is one huge reason why I am Atheist now.
I think they lie about it because they're embarrassed about it and don't want to feel like they're in a religion that doesn't make sense. Or, they don't want to believe that they're in a cult, and admitting some of those things really make it look more like a cult.
Thank you for calling this out!Exmo here, who is always arguing these points with members. Tithing,garments and purity culture are absolutely necessary if you are expected to go to the highest level of heaven.
Pay your way to heaven, for sure! And guilt you all along the way 😂.
I am a member and have been my whole life. That being said, I appreciate you calling people out for not being honest about all the excuses people give for not doing things. Those are the same ones that are not convinced they are in the right place. And people will justify what they are struggling to live with to make it ok to not do it themselves, if that makes sense. I know that at some point all members are going to have to decide if they are all in or all out. There won’t be any if this fence sitting or justification for choices. I totally agree with you that being honest is at the core foundation of any belief in Jesus Christ.
Exmo, maybe things changed!
I left the church after a brief period as a member. One of the Bishops of the ward I was part of here in Olympia Washington he works on Sundays and he actually told me that he understood that I had to work on Sunday considering my low economic situation. We don’t to each other he passes by me as if I am nothing but I get to see him on Sundays at the grocery store that we both work….
… Make a video of what do you know about the planet kolob…
You can stop paying tithing if you want to stop getting callings, being able to commune with god in the temple, see your kids or any friends weddings, and not be accepted by other members(if they find out). It’s like not paying the “resort fee”, if that was possible. You can stay in the hotel you just can’t use the pool, weight room, classes, WiFi etc.
This made me think of Nuancehoe’s conversation with Kwaku, where he seems to run in these crowds where “the Church is true” but they all take complete license with all of its tenets. None of his single friends are virgins, people just all do whatever and plan to repent when it’s time to get serious and settle down. It’s absolutely bizarre.
Look, I’m glad for anyone who sees a ban on coffee as nonsensical and takes moral license. Good for them. But it’s quite another thing to think that’s condoned by the institutional church.
So I don’t know that it carries the intent needed for lying, but it absolutely doesn’t reflect reality.
It’s all a choice … that you are required to make.
Throwback: if confronted about what goes on in the temple - all good members will deny and lie.
Yet, all the ‘whistleblowers’ told the same version.
Reminds me of Joseph Smith’s answer when asked about polygamy in the church…
I wish she added that if a member of the bishop "class" had to talk with her about a teeny bit of cleavage...that bishop was 100% a guy. There are no women bishops, so the person whose job it is to talk to young women with developing bodies about how to dress and cover themselves will be men. So, if you are a convert with young girls and you believe the lie that dressing "modestly" is optional, it will be a rude awakening to find out a man talked to your daughter about her cleavage. And not a PROFESSIONAL clergy person as the title "bishop" suggests...not at all. The role of bishop is rotating, and any "temple-worthy" man could be "called" to be the next bishop. So the man who talks to your child about masturbation, modesty, cleavage, etc, could be the father of one of their friends.
If you have to do something to get full access to the program it's a requirement. In this way, tithing is a 10% full access membership fee.
You do such a great job Lex! Only two suggestions? Do longer videos! And start doing lives! It will help you grow your channel tremendously and people will make donations every live! You''re providing a tremendous service to those who are deconstructing. Keep up the good work!
Just had to say you are absolutely stunning with and without makeup!
I remember a non member came to young woman's and she was completely berated in front of everyone for wearing a tank top 🤦🏼♀️
And we had the Manti pool open up and the bishop brick came to the young woman's and blessed that no one would wear bikinis 🤭 Luckily I was a rebel mormon and wore one with my non member friends. It was freeing.
Another time I was chastised during a Sunday school lesson for having colored hair and piercings. I knew he was talking about me cause I was the only one in the room that fit the description of going down a dark path because of it 😂 That was the last time I ever went to church but still believed many years until I found you a couple years ago! Thanks for helping me out! 😀
Im not an ex Mormon but was brought up in quite a strict Christian environment and when we went to conferences I used to 'bait' the leaders by wearing grungy clothes and heavy metal jewllery to see how they reacted. I did get the comment of 'I noticed you were wearing a led Zeppelin badge. Do you think thats the sort of music we ought to be listening to as Christians?' I have to admit I would get a kick out of winding them up! Like 'Ill wear a cannabis leaf necklace and see if anyone notices!' To be fair, he was a lovely guy, but so entrenched in evangelical thinking. they genuinely think they are doing the right thing and helping you!
@@michaelnicholas5587 But what if God is also a Led Zeppelin fan?
Cults twist your minds with their ridiculous lies about “heaven”
I literally feel I can speak on this based on being a part of an MLM. We were strictly told to not tell any prospective prospects the full truth or they would not join or think it was a pyramid scheme, which it technically was, but we just didn't lead onto that. I think it's a lot of the same way. To not tell the full truth and only speak on a little. In much of the same way we were to not research the MLM and we were told only to listen to our upline's, and to the books and tapes. Again very similar. It took me only a few years after I left to realize I was in a cult and I think that's why Mormons/LDS don't share the full truth. Just my two cents
Good job! 👏 that was nicely put!
To ''make the church look bad" all that is needed is that you explain what Mormons really believe. Mormons are not upfront about their teachings and for good reason Knowing what they really believe would turn most people away.
I think you must have a lot of Jack Mormon viewers lol who have the attitude of well as long as I am not caught! lol
No, it's more, "as long as I'm not excommunicated, it's optional."
Lex as an exmo you nailed one of the reasons members to include me stretch the truth. It's not that members are trying to lie. There are two things. There are very weird things about mormonism and we don't want to look bad personally and it's embarrassing. The other bigger reason is the every member a missionary. We will stretch the truth or avoid the topic if it does not make the church look good. Everything is within the context of trying to convert that person. So we try to always be the perfect mormon and say everything we can to make the church look amazing. At home, at church, at school, at work. And we take bad information about the church as a slap on us as people so we will go to extreme lengths to make ourselves and the church look christ like so people will join.
Non-mormon here. Experiences with Mormonism...
1st: Mormon housemate: low-key racist, definitely judgy about "immodest" clothes, definitely judgy about drinking alcohol, definitely judgy about lesbianism (our other housemate), definitely judgy about cannabis use, definitely judgy about sex outside of marriage. She was the prissiest person I've ever met in my life. Oh and she would never take out the garbage.
2nd: A Russian girl friend who somehow got a visa to come to the U.S. by "converting" to Mormonism: I don't know what kind of special privileges the Mormon church has to give visas to foreign converts, but my Russian friend got one. But there were these Mormon church "minders" who would check to make sure she was being Mormon. I remember once I was visiting this friend at her work and one of these Mormon "minders" came and started asking her questions about how often she had prayed that week and other stuff. It was crazy! My friend was so embarrassed.
3rd: Mormon guy at work: Used to lecture me about drinking coffee. Said it would "kill me." So annoying and obviously wrong.
ETA: I do like the choir though.
When my aunt was getting married in the temple, my grandma was told she couldn't attend because she was behind on paying her tithing. It's humiliating especially when you're poor and otherwise a loyal member. My aunt had to pay the tithing for her to be able to go. I dont know how they're still mormon.
I'm a never member and I think they'd say those things aren't a requirement because it wouldn't be very enticing to new members at all!
Every bishop is different too. And tithing is an option- FOR HEAVEN OR HELL ! Just as its an option to pay tax's IN USA !
I used to attend Scout meetings in several stakes. They all had posters about dressing modestly.
I heard someone being very disapproving of wearing sexy underwear for your husband in the bedroom. It was seen as 'worldly' and 'lustful.' Well if youre gonna suck all the fun out of sex, why even bother?! I honestly dont know how Mormon men survive without going insane-no masturbation, no head, no porn, cant even see their wives looking sexy, prob not allowed to talk dirty or share naughty pics of each other, and prob have to have the lights off and stay under the duvet. What a way to ruin peoples lives!!!
Love a good "Lex Rants & Rambles" ! So many valid points and observations here
The Mormon church in my area will send elders to your house to collect the money if you miss 2 sundays!!!!!! I was shocked proud X morman i left a cple of years ago
When I was a kid, one of the youth priesthood groups (I think it was Deacons) was responsible for collecting fast offerings every Fast Sunday. This was supposed to be the money you would have spent on the food you and your family did NOT eat that day because you were fasting. Looking back on that now, I cringe at the memory of being 12 or 13 and going door to door collecting money from the people in my ward. This was separate from tithing. From what I understand, that practice went away a long time ago and fast offerings are made with tithing. Even at such a young age I remember feeling bad knocking on Mobil home doors in a trailer park and basically guilting people who had nothing into giving me money for the church. Just so wrong on so many levels.
I've had one foot out the door as a teenager and have been out for over a decade at this point and had just assumed the church was just another conservative organized religion. Recently, I've taken an interest in early church history which put me in some forums with some former members, nuanced members, members of other sects, some who are less orthodox in their practice, the occasional neverMo, and a few TBMs out defending the church. Anyway, a neverMo came by to ask a question and polygamy came up. I described how one can argue very well that the mainstream church does still practice polygamy in a very roundabout way by playing out the rules on sealing according to the handbook (widowers can be sealed to more than one woman, but a widow can't be sealed to more than one man). Some other people commented with some experiences on the impact that this has had on real women.
There was a little bit of a misunderstanding about what "sealing" meant and some TBM swooped in and tried to make it sound like we were just mad that widowers were remarrying even though remarrying after the death of a spouse was normal and really pushed the whole "just like other faiths" thing and acted like they couldn't figure out why I was "trying to make it sound like something it wasn't." Thankfully, we did clear up with the neverMo that the sealing was the point of miscommunication and that they saw the issue.
But that was the moment I went from thinking I had just been in some conservative organized church to realizing I grew up in a cult. It was wild!
I cant ever remember lying about the church growing up personally
Great stuff Lex, you are spot on!!
Comment for the algorithm. Thanks Lex! ❤
My partner’ wife, yes that’s correct, is worried about tidying now bc their daughter is getting married and they need the recommends. So much cult type rules….
I was a non-mormon living in Ogden in the 80's...definitely was an eye opening experience.
As part of the temple recommend interview they would read a statement about wearing the garment.
One time a stake presidency member bore his testimony of garments after reading the statement. He said I would be blessed for always wearing the garment and said I should wear it when playing basketball or working out at the gym. So I did even though it was uncomfortable. A few years later I ended up in the dermatologist office with a skin condition on my chest and the doctor told me I needed to work out without wearing the garments and even go shirtless when running. The garments were irritating my skin. Why did I feel the need to follow some old dude's advice?😂😂😂
Yep ! I was once a Mormon and I am glad I am out of the Cult and lies of the Church even my Bishop lied about tithing and still he gave me a temple recommend your right that’s the reason why they lie they don’t want to look bad look even the prophet and General authorities lie I am at peace now guess what my name has been removed from LDS membership role great video thanks for getting out the truth God bless you and the family !
Not on topic: Lexi, you've talked a lot in the past about how horribly your husband's family has been toward you. With that in mind, I noticed that the plant behind you, the one with big, spiky leaves, is growing crazy, with one leaf shooting up sharply, a lot higher than the rest of the plant. Coincidentally, one of the names for that plant is a Mother-in-law's Tongue.
Maybe this is kind of weird, or seems illogical to you. I thought it it was funny that it looked a little bit like that the Mother-in-law's Tongue was about to attack you.
I'm just being silly.😂
Back on topic now the: I love your videos. You are so honest and brave even though the people of your former faith attack you incessantly. I think it's wonderful that you strive so hard to not let them get to you. Keep it up! You help so many others who are trying to gain their freedom from that abominable organization (they take in too much money to just call it a church.)
It’s all about control.
It's the bread-and-butter of any successful cult.
Never Mormon here. I think that when you have a religion based on legalism it creates a desire to find all the technicalities and exploit them. No different from a defense attorney using a technicality to get their client released.
The people won’t haz the blessings without the tithing. The church cares about the people, wants the people to haz the blessings so they must tithe.
Mormons lie online, and elsewhere, constantly. It doesn’t “count” to them because it’s theocratic warfare. We call it Lyin’ For Jebus!
All of this is ridiculous.
I had a sister of my ex gf once tell me that looking at porn was ok as long as you did it with your spouse.
I feel like every ward had its own rules sometimes.
But yeah, tithing was DEFINITELY required and being modest was THE most important thing (mostly for women OF COURSE).
Me: Hey honey, I've got Back-Door Sluts 9 all lined up for our fabulous viewing tonight.
Spouse: Seriously? Do I have to watch it with you?
Me: Those are the rules. Do you want me to join you in heaven or not?
I kinda heard this, too. More from Mormon men than women, but yes
Or maybe they're lying to themselves? 🤔
I know these are all true and is teached to them. I remember all the young women lessons and missionary lessons (I had loads because my refused my baptism for 10 months)
A few years back I lived in an apartment in Cairns, Australia. The Mormons also had an apartment in our block and about every 3 months a new bunch of American missionaries would come in. The new bunch would knock on the door or bail me up at the gate. The first thing I would ask them is “Do you follow the commandment; I shall not bear false witness.” “Yes” Ok, “How many wives did your prophet Joseph Smith have?” Answer was “one or five, maybe seven” or “don’t know”. I would tell them 34! They would shake their heads. I then told them the youngest was a little girl of 14. In Australia, having sex, even consensual sex with an underage child is classified as rape. I tell them, your prophet Joseph Smith was a child rapist. That’s why the townsfolk of Carthage stormed the jail and killed him. Away they scurry. I then yell at them “May your Gods go with you!”
Very important to be honest! All these are requirements. We maybe told it’s a choice however, exactly as said in this video, we are required to do all these things or will face consequences, ie, less promised blessings, not wearing garments = being more vulnerable to the temptation on the Devil, no tithe equals = 🔥 to a crisp, lovely!!
Thank you Ex mo Lex
Honestly the best policy!
❤️
I would even say that tithing is required for certain callings as well. (Higher ward and stake leadership).
My wife is literally a poster child for the Mormon church. I tried it while we dated but left soon after we were married as the more I learned especially when they started "getting me ready" for my temple recommend left with tons of questions no one could answer and I got push back for even asking. My wife's friends and family almost exclusively consist of Mormon members and it amazes me how little they actually know about their religion even after 30-40-50 yrs of following it. When challenged on anything negative they tend to just ignore it rather than face it or deal with it. They are good people in their hearts and have a good set of moral values for the most part. While it's not for me and many others I also find it's fruitless to think you'll ever get them to admit fault or question something as the "brainwashing" runs deep as I like to say.
How does the church know how much you earn? Do you have to show them your paystubs or tax returns.
I think it’s actually the teaching of “agency” that makes people lie. They don’t want to believe they HAVE to do anything, and that it’s just a good choice to do so. It’s a choice you have to make to be a member in good standing though.
My LDS father claimed that he (and the church) have always supported civil rights. That's a lie.
Yes, tithing and wearing garments is a requirement to be in good standing with maintaining a temple recommend. You choosing to pursue and take upon yourself temple covenants and all that entails is OPTIONAL, but well worth the requirements
You are 100% correct, I think they are in denial or like you said they want to look good and lie to get people to get baptized
Lex--Great Video. I have found Mormons lie by omission; withholding information when asked any honest question.
I think it is learned behavior from church leadership. If it's ok for the church to be dishonest about its history, doctrines, past beliefs (polygamy), etc. Members subconsciously see that and assume dishonesty for righteous reasons must be OK?
I worked for the welfare department in Utah, and I had Bishops come in all the time with a ,member to apply for welfare and food stamps. One time he was pushing really hard for something I couldn’t do for some reason. So I said to the Bishop; “I thought that was the kind of things your church helped members with”. He was pretty taken aback and hemmed and stuttered and admitted they could do something. I was told by ex Mormons that my client must not have been paying tithing and that was why.
How some people must struggle 😢 I hope they get an option after this 👍🏻♥️♥️♥️
Definitely, tithing is a requirement; a HUGE, the most critical requirement.
3:18 "Why are people not being completely honest about what the church expects from its members?"
I think that's too broad a brush. It is possible to be honestly mistaken. You should at least allow for those members who are ignorant of the items, but still subject to the social indoctrination that "anything bad said about the church is anti-Mormon rhetoric." If so, the thought process may be:
It would be bad if the church teaches/requires X.
I have never heard the church teach/require X.
A non-Mormon says the church teaches/requires X.
Non-Mormon's commonly misrepresent the church to oppose the church and lead people astray.
Therefore the non-Mormon is wrong that the church teaches/requires X.
I think there are generational members and converts who have sufficient awareness to have been baptized and maybe done some things in the temple, but not be aware of a lot of the teachings. This is even more enhanced as the teachings continue to morph over time. Given the variance inherent in the concept of "bishop roulette," that "The Church" is sending a consistent message to all of its members is unlikely.
Take tithing as an example. If a person is in the church and has not heard much about exaltation, but does enjoy the church and likes being a member, and does not consistently pay tithe. To them "required" would mean, "required to continue attending and be considered a member." When they say "tithing isn't required" they're not being dishonest, they're talking about what they understand the concept of "required' to mean, especially if they've come from a more traditional Christian context where there is a distinction between "What is required for salvation" and "what is required to be a member of this congregation."
I totally agree with your argument that it’s mostly about making the church look good rather than bad. I also think a small part of it (at least this is my experience as an ex-Mormon with friends who are still in the church) is because they themselves want to justify their own behavior. I’ve noticed my Mormon friends that are a little more relaxed tend to say these sorts of lies like the Mormon church doesn’t care if you don’t always pay tithing, wear your garments, or if you watch r rated movies because they are doing those things themselves. And since they’ve been taught these behaviors are “bad” perhaps they want to stretch the truth to make it fit their lifestyle? Idk this is just my experience.
Current Mormon. Baffled someone would lie about some of that stuff.
Modesty is such a huge thing, to the point the teens had slogans about it.
Yeah, we're supposed to pay tithing. I'd argue as someone who doesn't pay tithing I could still visit the temple as I did as a teen for the baptisms for the dead, as the end question was always if I felt temple worthy, and that seemed to be the important aspect, but I haven't been ever since I came out as queer and got married to my beautiful wife.
Garments were highlighted as important, and my parents picking up a new set from a church bookstore is a fixture in my memory. You're supposed to wear them. To say otherwise is false. It's like saying we're allowed to have coffee. People always gave me funny looks when I told them Mormons don't drink coffee. I still don't, though not for Word of Wisdom reasons, I just don't care for it.
I don't think it's always because those things look bad.
When I was in the church, I stretched the truth on this stuff, too. Like, 'you don't haaaave to ___' , it just means that you won't get excommunicated. True, it's disingenuous in that, by doing this, you are basically saying that the goal or purpose of the church is to not get excommunicated. BUT - I didn't do it to protect the church or stop it from looking bad.
There were really 2 reasons for it.
1. Proselytising. If being a member seems too hard to prospects, who we're taught have much lower standards and values, they won't investigate further. I was sure that once the holyghost would tell them it's all true, they'd just want to live that way.
2. My own cognitive dissonance. Not because I think Tithing etc. are bad but because, I felt manipulated and controlled. I could either admit this and face the question of whether that's really how God wants stuff done (are we going to heaven if the celestial kingdom is run that strictly? type questions) or I could become an apologist (which we're basically taught to do from childhood) playing the semantics games and mental gymnastics to justify things. Either way the psyche wants to feel better and it can either feel better plus go to the Celestial Kingdom, become a god, keep my social circle... or feel better but risk wandering in the fog with basically bad people and without the iron rod to hold on to.
"Lying for the Lord"- because honesty is admitting that the 'church' is in fact a cult.
The worst lies are the one that leaves your lips and you know it’s a blatant lie.
There is the members and how they keep/interpret the rules, and then there is the church's rule. They are both different. Sometimes the culture of the members has a more strict rule, but most times the Mormon Church is more strict. I know SO many members that lie about tithing, coffee, garments and beliefs so they can participate in the church at the highest level.
Someone literally in a recent chat claimed "real" polygamy isn't about sex.
Another commenter claimed no one that has ever left the Church served their ward. Like ever. 😮😅😂
It’s also optional until you need services when you fall on hard times because you won’t get help.
The biggie for me was that I was born in the church, pressured to get baptised at 8, pressured to serve a mission at 19, then teaching people we have free will to choose. 🤔 Also they teach they don’t judge, yet they judge if they think you’re worthy enough to enter the temple and they have a court to judge you, if you do wrong in the church . I’m pretty sure that’s judging. Didn’t Christ say he who is without sin cast the first stone? So to judge are they saying they don’t sin?!?
Sure you probably won't get excommunicated or stoned if you don't wear your garments, don't pay tithing, choose to wear a bikini or shop on Sundays..but we have been taught that certain "blessings" will be withheld in this life or the next. Whether that be being able to go to the temple, hold certain positions in the church, be with our families in the afterlife or be able to feel the spirit. I believe that they are being completely dishonest. Those things might not be a requirement for membership but they are heavily taught! And you'll probably be heavily judged by the majority of members for doing them..
I wonder how many of these apologists were actually raised in the church, as opposed to joining as adults.
If the latter, I think they see the rules as something they voluntarily take upon themselves, as opposed to forced upon them since birth.