Fear kept me in the church for a long time. I was the first member in my family, and was told I was supposed to be the example to lead my family to the church and the celestial kingdom. It took me way too long to realize that was way to much to put on a young child's shoulders and heart.
Fear keeps me around bc of my kids, my youngest overheard me talking about possibly leaving the church and had a panic attack 😢. I’ve honestly been questioning the church a long time.
One of the first abusive things this organization does to it's youth is inculcate a sense of fear that the "anti-Mormons" are out to get them so this artificial mentality of "us vs. them" is instilled in their minds.
I have many gripes with the church but teaching us vs. the world to kids really gets me upset. Seeing little kids getting programmed and conditioned to say things they can’t understand feels so sleazy and manipulative. ‘Repeat after me. I know the church is true…)’ grrrrrt
Umm... Let me tell you what is 'anti-Mormon'. Drinking Alcohol, Smoking, Drugs/harmful substances, Pre-marital Sex, Killing, Adultery, Bearing False Witness, Denying the Holy Ghost, Denying Christ, Denying God, and Hating your neighbor are all 'anti-Mormon'. So parents and leaders that are trying to prevent their kids from 'Anti-Mormon' just want to keep their kids from any of these things. It is not an Us/Them more than it is a Predator/Prey type of situation. Parents are entitled and obligated to protect their kids from harmful influences that will cause them to participate in 'anti-Mormon' behaviors.
When I was in 3rd grade, a girl I had been friends with came up to me and asked me what religion I was. I told her none. She said, “I thought so.” She walked around asking other kids on the playground the same question. Kids said different things, and she always replied, “ I thought so.” She rarely talked to me after that. We lived near each other. Many years later when we were in high school her brothers knocked on our door sometime around Christmas. They asked if they could sing carols and talk to us. My dad has always been very welcoming and said of course. They sang and proselytized for a bit. We didn’t agree, but we’re kind regardless. After listening to various former Mormons, I think I have an understanding as to why this girl decided we could no longer be friends.
@@denz4133 As a mother, I listened to the songs they were teaching in primary. The kids were crying. Tired and hungry. Certain songs were being forced upon them. It was actually terrifying.
I have seen this very thing in my own family. My parents tried to guilt me and say things like, "We will be failures as parents if you don't stay in the church." It's so manipulative and sad that they have been programed to believe such things.
More recently I realized that you can't go to heaven (the highest degree) unless you pay for it. That's some scary stuff. When the pandemic hit around March of 2020 and it naturally provided detachment from church meetings I actually felt such a sense of relief. I started to think about all the things that we were required to do that are attached with guilt and fear. Much of my life I got a sense that I was never enough. It is drilled into the members as they're sitting in sacrament meetings, the youth programs and the temple. And many of the general conference talks just came off to me as very condescending, cold and unloving. I believe the conditioning and indoctrination from the church has kept me in a lot of abuse throughout my life. That's where I'm at now, freeing myself from the control.
@Beverly A. I really think that you are making excuses so you don't have to go to Church or listen to General Conference. Take your first point, you can't go to heaven unless you pay for it. Are you talking about you can't go to the temple unless you pay your tithing? Tithing is paying 1/10th of your increase. Your increase suggests that you are producing something that you didn't have before. If you truly believe in God, you would also believe that He made EVERYTHING you have. On Mother's Day have you ever given a gift to your Mom to show that you Love Her. It is also to acknowledge that she gave you a life worth living. You would do this for your Mom if she asked and if God asked who created your mom's greatest grand mom, you would think he was just interested in your money and nothing else. Newsflash, God is not interested in your money. Just like your Mom, he is interested in your Love and your increase doesn't have to equate to dollars and bills, that is just an easy way of valuating your personal increase. Heck back in the day, Christ asked his followers to give up ALL that they had in order to follow Him. A life without possessions really does humbles someone and find out their real worth. Leaving God will make you feel like you can do whatever you want, but the real lesson and the real pain are just the same for all of us, just one is with God and one is without Him.
Jacob Samuelson... Obviously you made the assumption that I don't believe in God which I do but I don't have to prove anything to you. what I'm talking about is the psychological and emotional effect of a process of conditioning over many years. I don't have to defend myself of what my life's experiences especially those related to abuse through church participation along with a very dysfunctional family and a husband of 19 years has taken it's toll on me. My ex-husband used unrighteous Dominion to try to control me and our children. Doing all the things you are talking about is something that I did and that did not prevent me from being mistreated and misguided in many ways.
@@beverlya.8751 When did I assume you didn't believe in God? Please? Because I really hate it when people put things in my mouth when it is clearly documented that I didn't assume anything. I understand your dysfunctional family and your abusive relationships. I have had them too (mostly outside the church) and you should seek healing as best as you can, but to do as every 'Ex-mormon' on these shows do and make absurd generalizations and blame shift all of your problems on the Church, not only doesn't help you or your trauma, but I sort of 'gaslights' others to believing that their lives will magically be better by running away from their problems. The Church is from Christ. So if you believe in the Bible and believe that the Saints went through some pretty traumatic stuff than I don't know what you would expect from following Christ today? People like your unrighteous dominant husband is specifically rebuked in D and C 121. The Church wants to help people like him to understand what he should be doing. If he doesn't want to listen to the Church, that is his fault and I am glad you are rid of him, but the Churches teaching stay the same.
Yes, I would like a video about scrupolosity. I utterly enjoy your videos, and now when I'm deconstructing my faith, (I used to be a JW, still am, on paper, but not attending reunions anymore), they are a true consolation, and make me feel less lonely.
Seeing how well the church fits in the bite model really helped me process so many of my emotions and experiences. I love that you are going over these points thank you lex!
This same friend of mine went to BYU right after his mission. We actually served in the same one. Through a friend he was set up on a blind date with a beautiful girl. She had just gotten back from her mission. They dated, it was getting serious and he asked me if I'd come to the temple for the wedding which they were planning. A few weeks later he called me and was crying. I asked him what was wrong. It turns out that because he wasn't a Utah boy from good Utah stock, the mother said I don't approve. She was heartbroken he was but she had to obey her mother and the father apparently gave in. She married somebody the mother approved of from a good old Utah family. They ended up having 7 kids and she's unhappy. She told a mutual friend that they still both talk to. BUT.......her husband has a major job at BYU, and will probably move up in the Church. He has written books, represents the university at big conferences but the wife puts on a happy face. How sad. My friend got over it 5 years later and found the love of his life and they have been together now for over 30 years. He said it still bothers him sometimes.
Oooh! This bullying mormon rhetoric makes me so angry!! I was so sucked in! Did you ever hear them say that if you served your family it was selfish?? Serving your own children, parents, siblings was taught to be selfish, that you were only serving yourself if you served your own family members... The only service that "counted" was service given to the church or other members not directly related to an individual. Sheesh! Thanks for your affirming discourse regarding: "I did the right thing to leave!"
You forgot a couple things. They want you to pray pay and obey... With a strong emphasis on paying because without a full tithing you can't go to the temple and have a forever family. Sounds like the mob collecting a ransom after kidnapping your children.
@@GuyRegular oh I remember lol but I found just dealing with the weekly stuff more fearful because it was more routine. The temple was more of a annual thing. But yeah, tithing was enforced, fast offerings were enforced, just pure lunacy
I think I lost my salvation at the thought of boobies and coffee lol. But they do use fear to make you stay or try to make you feel wanted. When I was living in Manchester a missionary started talking to me so I decided to listen and just play along a bit ( I was in a new city with hardly any friends) then I gave the game away and told him I was an ex-member then he said the strangest thing to me well it seemed odd to me !?? he said: "We miss you !!" I turned around and said "How can you miss me if you don't even know me" He got all flustered and couldn't think what to say at that point, so I felt sorry for him, gave him my thoughts and why he shouldn't say a thing like that politely and went on my way.
I was lucky I was 16, so hadn't gone through the temple, hadn't entered adulthood as a member, etc, I think for that reason it was easier to notice the control and decide I didn't like it and reject it. But, it was super scary, I didn't tell a soul for about a year, and "coming out" (so to speak) as a non-Mormon and atheist the experience I had proved why I was scared. People can be awful when you leave a cult.
That is a perfect expression of leaving the church. Their are a lot of closeted non-believers in the church, afraid to come out because of the persecution, and abandonment that would ensue
That’s exactly my experience as well, except I lost my faith at 18. I’m thankful I got out while still young. I couldn’t take that church anymore. So many things that didn’t add up or make any sense and no matter how faithful and devoted I was, I could never understand all the hate, bigotry and hypocrisy that goes on within the church. I just wanted to love people and I realized I didn’t need a cult to tell me how to do that.
I've never understood the transforming from "Mormon" to atheist. To me, that's just summarily throwing the proverbial baby out with the bathwater. Thinking that all this (ALL OF IT) just popped up out of nowhere for no reason makes no sense at all. I think a lot of people will be searching for truth as long as they're alive, but at least they're searching, and looking for things that add up and make sense.
My grandmother (not mormon) was in a cult when I was growing up. she came out for thanksgiving one year and wouldn't eat the turkey because her der leader said eating meat was bad. The next year when she came out, my mom made her a vegetarian option and grandma went right for the turkey. when my mom and other family members said, "I thought the leader said you can't eat meat", grandma denied ever having been told that or having said that, though there were many family members who remembered her saying that. sorry for the sidebar, but your comment about controlling what members eat and drink brought that back up for me.
I’d known fear throughout my 42 year tenure in the Church. I remember a talk in GC Priesthood where Ezra Taft Benson gave a dire warning to unmarried Elders that they risked their salvation by not finding wives in the starkest terms. It left me afraid and crying for months afterwards. (I was not able to be married because I hadn’t gone on a mission, so I was being politely shunned by the sisters in the ward - and the one sister I got engaged to had rage issues). Even when I went inactive, the conditioning that The Brethren subjected me to left me fearful and paranoid, and I felt that unless I returned to Church and the straight and narrow, I would be condemned to Hell. Even though being there made me suicidal. Thankfully the Church’s actions regarding the November Policy was what really motivated me to question everything. Much research later - podcasts with John Dehlin and Radio Free Mormon, discovering the rock in a hat story was true, and finally hearing M. Russell Ballard blatantly lie about the Church’s hiding things from members, and I was done - I hit QuitMormon. I’m still alone, but I’m in a much happier, calmer place. Even with the most recent calamities I’ve gone through, I feel stronger and more positive about life. Having the yoke of fear the Church put on my neck removed was the best thing. I love what you do Lex, and keep doing what you do.
Sometimes people get up to a pulpit have have some wisdom and sound advice. But sometimes, it's all overshadowed by the heavy dose of asinine nonsense that may be there too.
Crazy how while Jehovah’s witnesses and Mormons are so different.. and yet in other ways, they are Very much alike. Such as the Instilling fear in members, fear independent thinking, fear being shunned… etc… and not to mention both being cult religions. The mind control, sisters having to be So submissive do the brothers & elders, and JW’s also say the same things about the world, and “worldly” and also “in the world” and “of the world” and being “counseled” by 3 elders (alone) because I have “worldly” friends.” And having to read 1 Corinthians 15:33 “Do not be misled. Bad associations spoil useful habits.” My “worldly friends” are not even bad. Very sweet people. “Worldly people” are Not bad associations just because they don’t want to be JW’s. Or because they celebrate holidays & birthdays. I am one of Many who had the fear instilled in me, of being destroyed at Armegeddan and not inheriting everlasting life on a paradise earth if we commit sins or decide to not be a Jehovah’s witnesses. Definitely big threats about that stuff as well. Oh and JW’s also will tell you that there is “no true happiness and love” outside the religion. JW’s & Mormons are a lot more alike than they will ever admit. (JW’s just don’t celebrate holidays & birthdays and believe in everlasting life on a paradise earth with all the wicked & “worldly” people and Satan and bad and demons gone. Other than those differences, JW’s & Mormons really are So much alike. Especially with the disfellowshipping/ex communication and shunning. And all the control.
My sister was a 25 year member of the Jehovah's Witnesses. I could see this control and fear instilled in her for myself. It's so sad. We were raised Episcopalian, and I am one to this day. I feel blessed to be in a faith community where I can think for myself!
If your leaving the church then there’s a good chance you didn’t have a very grounded testimony. It’s not hard for strong members to leave. I have 2 siblings who are inactive and one that has left. It’s always a choice for you to stay or leave. We don’t make you leave.
This lady will be held very accountable for her what she is putting out there even if she doesn’t agree with the church. We are all held accountable for our actions. It has been said in the scriptures that even the very elect will fall. It’s interesting that she is proof of scripture. Good luck to you all
@@trishachristensen2238 Don't be so sure of your "testimony" - you're only one major faith crisis away from becoming an exmo just like us. 😊 Better enjoy the view from that lofty perch while you're up there!
@@natalieholt8477 There's a 100% chance that NONE of them have a well-grounded testimony because their religion is all one big fraud, and I get so sick and tired of this Holier-than-thou nonsense. People leaving The Church isn't proof of "Even the very elect will fall". It's proof of people finding out the truth and not being afraid to stand up to their peers and speak out about it. She doesn't wish any of us "good luck". Right now she's praying that we'll all rot in Hell so that she can rub it in our faces how right she was. It's a real immature mentality that people really need to grow up from. It is really getting old.
@@trishachristensen2238Also, I sure hope you’re kinder to your sisters than you were in the comments. It doesn’t take a lot to love one another. I think it’s easier out of the church to do so though. 🤷♀️ At the end of the day, the final judgement is up to God not you! 🙌 Only He knows people’s hearts perfectly. People are allowed to share their experiences and how they feel. You’re also allowed to feel threatened by it I suppose.
You’re absolutely gorgeous. Thank you for helping put words to my trauma and experiences. I’ve really appreciated your input during my deconstructing journey❤️
My parents moved the goalposts constantly with fear. First I left their house at 16, moved in with my ExMo dad and they pressured me to keep up church/seminary. Then they tried to pressure me to go on a mission and that didn't work because I joined the military and got far away. In the military, I actually found true faith in God, fell in love with a Greek Orthodox woman, converted and they threatened to disown me. Unlike the LDS church, they were also allowed to attend my own wedding as non-members, and welcomed as guests with open arms. Then I had my kids and baptized them in my new faith, and they said they would for real for real disown me for not bringing them up in the one true church. Then and only then did they finally gave up on their empty threats and decided they didn't want to lose their son and grandkids from their life. For those who were my age, be aware that you have a choice. Most people in this world also don't do what they say, and say what they mean; if they don't follow through on a promise once, they will probably give up ground again.
A great and specious building is more like it. I believe Jesus talked of buildings that the Pharisees had which seemed great but were “whited sephulcures” inside (in other words, a tomb.) I swear, if Christ returns and goes to SLC, he’s going to be carrying a whip.
Well to be fair. It can be argued everyone uses the bite model in some shape or form. Not just religion but even none religious groups use it But you do bring up good points I am not going to lie. I mean guys how would you feel if your dad would rather see you come home dead instead of coming home alive from your mission? That's pretty f*uck up sh*t right there. That's not love, that's just flat out hatred / child abuse If I was a father I'd sooner see my son come home alive then to see him dead. So what if he lost his virginity? His life is more valuable then his sexual innocence. In the story of the Prodigal son the father welcomed his son back regardless of the stupid stuff he did. That's showing true love.
Well thats why she said they have to have at least like 90% of the terms in order to actually be considered a cult. I once heard a story of a young woman who had gotten hurt and was in the hospital her Mormon family loved and supported her and was going to pay the hospital bill in full, as soon as they caught wind that she was bi, they withdrew their money so her check would bounce and then told her they will not support her in any way shape or form, because then they'd loose their salvation. Just literally a complete 180. I commented that's not real love.
Yes, and now we're supposed to totally ignore all McHonky said about the difference in races, etc. But of course, he was inspired as one of the duly anointed ones, right? No? So we can still quote A LOT from Joseph'sMyth and a lot of current folk like Dallin Hoax . . . but don't you dare be picking on Bruce R., 'cause you're not supposed to criticize the recently departed.
@@joetaylor8687 I am with you that these guys like Bruce McConkie were just making crap up, but if you are going to criticize someone for past racism, it doesn't help your cause by being racist yourself. McHonky? Really? Don't complain about racism if you are casually throwing out racial slurs yourself.
@@joetaylor8687 You never considered "Honky" a slur? Really?? Why don't you go up to a black person and label them "McNi__R" and see how that works out for you...... Racism is racism. And if you think that racial slurs are okay so long as they are against one racial group and not okay for another racial group, that is racist. Bruce McConkie seemed like a real asshole based on what I have read from him. But making a racial slur at him just reduces you to his level.
I’ve even heard from a member that women are not supposed to turn down more than 2 marriage proposals . I have an LDS friend who is getting engaged after one month ( barely ) after meeting him on an LDS dating site. I’m so scared for her. I sure hope it works. That “ church” gets you from every side of life by instilling fear of just living your own life and making your own choices. I resigned almost 3 years ago. I’m still afraid of losing her. She doesn’t know I left, but she knows I got to “ apostate “ churches. Lol, the look on her face, when o pointed out a non Mormon church I currently attend . How is she going to react when I finally get up the courage to tell her I’m no longer a church member. I just thought she could put 2 and 2 together, as when I visit her Ward I do not take the sacrament. She will probably “ demote” me as a friend.
Ever find it hilarious how they talk about the evils of ‘the world’ and ‘things’ but Monson built multimillion dollar Condos and yelled ‘Let’s shop!’ At the opening of City Creek (ya know where the church rents store fronts to little family stores like Tiffany’s and Nordstroms). The irony of it all.
Upon watching this, I realized that my devout (not a thought in her head that wasn't put their by someone else) LDS mom-in-law makes most of her major decisions out of fear. Particularly when it comes to medicine, her fear of adverse side effects consistently outweighs her fear of the disease itself. She refused the COVID-19 vaccine, caught it, felt horrible for about a month, recovered, and now cites the fact that she didn't _die_ as justification for her fear of a medicine that _could have_ greatly minimized her suffering. Far more heartbreaking is the fact that her fear motivated her adult son to fight cancer with "natural treatments" rather than even _try_ chemo. They bought him some time, but ultimately never stood a chance...and now he's gone. As briefly referenced in this video...and more extensively in another..."Follow the Prophet," _is_ her default, _but_ she defaults to _personal revelation_ and rationalizations like, "Well, it's a _recommendation,_ not a _commandment,"_ whenever it comes to things she _fears._ Unfortunately, her lifelong efforts to avoid _worldliness_ have resulted in such a high degree of _ignorance_ about damned near every topic imaginable, that she is easily manipulated by any authoritative speaker who reinforces her _fears,_ so much so that it even short-circuits her _faith._
Excuse me! Made up things can’t bring "love and comfort." First; understand this. Secondly; understand that religions in general…all of them around the world…ARE, made up stories.
I can definitely agree that fear outside of the church is very real. When I was first dipping my toes in watching ex mormon content I felt so much fear I was going to be eternally punished for watching youtube videos. I started watching your videos first ExMo Lex! I said to myself "I'll watch her videos, but I won't subscribe." I felt that if I subscribed I would literally burn in hell. Luckily I've been able to snap out of the fear the church instilled in me. Now I create my own exmo content on Instagram! Thank you for your wonderful content! You helped me more than you will ever know!
I have a friend who has held Church positions in his ward and stake and is still somewhat active. Covid meant zoom meetings but he still clicked on them on Sundays. He told me a story of what happened to him when he went to a specialist appointment in Florida. He and the doctor were talking and it came up that he was LDS. The doctor wasn't. He said I have a good story for you. One of my patients is Jewish and from Ireland originally. He designed and helped build many of the temples (this was about 10 years ago he told me). Apparently the GAs have a Christmas dinner and this man was a guest of honor as he was so important. The only thing on the menu was roast pork. The man looked around and asked Elder Ballard if there was anything else to eat. Elder Ballard (now this was told to the doctor who told my friend who told me) said to him don't tell me you're Jewish and he laughed. You don't look like a Jew. The man asked him Elder Ballard what do Jews look like and why can't there be Irish Jews? Blacks weren't allowed to be full Mormons until the late 70s true? Nobody talked to this man the rest of the night and he no longer is involved in the temple building.
I was a committed member of the church for my whole life (brought up in it), then I got with my now fiancé who isn't a member and he realised how much it was damaging me and I discovered your channel around the same time and now I'm not a member at all I go to a church now who is just basic christians and I have never felt happier and more accepted. if you're a member of LDS ad you're questioning you're believes, trust your instinct, I did and I've never been happier.
"....the enemies of the Lord Jesus Christ and his saints... False doctrines, false teachers and pride..." Now this presents a serious problem for the church because Brigham Young taught that Adam was God and they only god with which we have to do and he taught it to the whole church and he also said in the journal of discourses that any sermon that he preached was as good as any scripture couched in the Bible.... But now the church denounces the Adam God doctrine has false doctrine and is to another prideful profit of the church Joseph Smith said he's done more than Jesus Christ did. I think the church leaders have to have a compartmentalized mind to ignore these teachings and lie to the church that they never really happened.
Yeah, about the only meaningful constant is continual flip-flopping regarding doctrine, theology, policy, etc. But what gig, huh! If you can convince a lot of people of your moral, spiritual, and / or intellectual superiority (and claim that you're the "Lord's anointed"), many will send you 10% of their earnings for life, and you'll never have to actually work for a living. What deal, huh? Get up occasionally and run your mouth, and as long as you're one of the SELF-APPOINTED or WELL-CONNECTED ones, all will be rosy for the duration of your mortality.
The fear is so real, and can often be difficult for the non-religious or mildly religious to understand. I think it’s one of the hardest & also one of the final things to conquer. Great video!
You go to kinda purgatory but not hell because it's not all your fault you didn't learn the true church. But you can choose to accept and learn the gospel before you've been sorted and have still alive people do your temple work and make it into mid-tier heaven. You still won't qualify for ultra-heaven though.
@@angelicataylor7179 I’ve never heard that nonmembers who got their temple work done after death would still never get to the celestial kingdom. That was always the whole point of doing temple work! To offer that person the same chance as every other member. I remember being taught that once a (deceased) person’s temple work had been done, they were able to get out of “spirit prison” and their blessings were the same as any living member. If they accepted the work done on their behalf they could eventually reach exaltation (the highest degree of the highest kingdom). What’s the point of doing all that temple work if those people have no chance of true salvation? I mean, I know the point of the temple is actually to keep control over the members, get people to pay their 10% and “otherize” those “worthy” enough to go in. But from a member’s perspective it is to give that dead person the chance they never had in life (to learn and accept the gospel and make their covenants). Why wouldn’t they be able to also go to the highest degree? Don’t get me wrong, I understand it’s all nonsense, but they have to at least give a plausible reason to keep people coming back.
The part about how members agree to do things out of fear of social repercussion reminded me of something: Back when I went to BYU Idaho (ironically, my time there was a big factor in me leaving the church) I was in a religion class. And as all byu classes do, we had opening prayers. The professor was going down the rows to decide who was going to say it. That day it was my turn. I was already nervous since I didn’t like saying prayers in front of people, and I misheard the question. I heard “have you said the opening prayer yet?” when the question ACTUALLY was “will you say the opening prayer?” So I said no. The professor just said okay and moved to the next person in the row, but I was so ashamed I went up to him afterwards to APOLOGIZE for hearing the question wrong and saying no. He was very nice about it and told me not to worry, but now looking back I now see how messed up that was.
Ah, yes, Nephi's dream... The "great and spacious building" with people whose "manner of dress was exceedingly fine." I'm just like... is that not describing the church? Their temples and their garments? They look down upon the world and scoff or worse?
Islam is not much different. The Quran in summary: A) be good (be obedient, worship Allah and put Muhammad on a pedestal - you are on the winning team!) B) others are bad (disbelievers, free thinkers, challenge to religious claims) C) if you have characteristics of B, you will be tormented and punished in hell. D) if you have characteristics of A (and are male) you will live in a hedonistic paradise. E) the end.
I have also been judged so so judged. I stopped being super active when I had my first brain surgery and not a soul from my ward except for my mom cared. It was at this time (during recovery) that i separated from my now ex husband. So yep plenty of judgement…and then when President Monson passed and Nelson was “called “ to be prophet something in me screamed NO THIS ISN’T RIGHT
Thinking for yourself does lead to apostasy because we can see the problems with the church and it’s teachings. They want us to just follow, even in its leaders.
How about anything that is critical of past doctrine or history or challenges assumptions about past church narratives is automatically dismissed as "anti-mormon." The majority of the time it is is true and can be found in books often written by church members or on the LDS church website. An example is the top hat and seer stone in the Book of Mormon translation. I was told for decades that this was "anti-mormon" folklore, yet this is now accepted as fact on the church website.
8:20 that statement contradicts itself on so many levels. So they admit we can't purify ourselves and yet they say we have to live righteous lives to be forgiven? Lol yeah that's not grace.
emotional control (fear) is tied closely with informational control; when we realize that the historicity of the first vision, and the BOM , is bogus then the fear in emotion control melts away. If the standard works, as well the leadership of prophets and seers, is all bullshit then there is nothing to fear. marcus
This is a very important point on the BITE model that clearly shows the church falls into the cult category. I struggle with the idea of the church controlling people, as in does the church control behaviour and thoughts or does it just teach things but not control? But I can definitely see that it instills fear through these various ways layed out in this video.
Please do a vid on scrupulosity! I've got OCD and scrupulosity used to be a MASSIVE part of it when I was in the church (a very specific religious fear that started thanks to an *amazing* (catch the sarcasm) seminary lesson). Fortunately now I'm gone the fear is mostly gone too, but it still flairs up even now. It's awful. No kid should have to go through that.
I've kinda wondered if they now have a policy / program of basically informal disfellowship--kind of a chickens__t way of dealing with people they consider undesirable without actually making a fuss or taking any of the risks that might accompany direct confrontation.
@@joetaylor8687 that is interesting. I caught my bishop and stake president lying to me (and I got them on video). I was released from my calling (Gospel Doctrine teacher) and all of a sudden they were radio silent with me. I have now been open that I question many church claims, but I am still active because my wife wants to still go. Although they have not told me that they have put any restrictions on me, I wouldn't be surprised if they did put me on some sort of probation (like maybe I can't hold a calling or pass the sacrament or take the sacrament) but never told me. I can see this happening because they are afraid of confrontation and I have no problem with confrontations.
@@nickdipaolofan5948 Your situation sounds a lot like mine. My wife won't go to any F & T meetings, but otherwise seems to have no complaints . . . so we often go. But yeah, it's pretty apparent they want about as little of me as they can possibly arrange--and I now oblige them my rendering ZERO dollars donated. I figure most members who are "active" just never study or question anything, and then they rely on that monthly situation with F & T meetings, where people jump up and verbalize what they "know" to be true on open-mike day. In fact, many "leaders," like Dallin Oaks and Boyd Packer have encouraged essentially "lying for the Lord," teaching that the best way to gain or strengthen a testimony is to BARE the testimony. In other words, jump up and profess what you "know" to be true, when you know no such thing; I guess the idea is that in time, you'll have even yourself convinced.
@@joetaylor8687 you are probably right in your assessment. And the "lying for the lord" unspoken policy was one of the major things that solidified to me that this was not God's church, but rather a good ol boys club that one climbs the ranks through nepotism and not merit or devotion. After understanding this, my eyes were opened and I could see the connection for just about every calling. The bishop was life long friends with the stake president who called him. The RS president happens to be the best friend of the bishops wife. The EQ president was the bishops employee. etc. Every calling had more to do with who was connected with the person doing the choosing. Started guessing who was going to be the next bishop or RS president and was crazy accurate to the point where my wife thought I had a gift. She was disappointed when I told her how I was guessing (based on who is in what click in the ward, who was wealthy, from what family, etc). Once you see how the magic trick is done, it is no longer impressive.
@@nickdipaolofan5948 I firmly believe that at least 80% of "active" members are there for social (as opposed to spiritual) reasons, and that nearly all missionaries are out there due to social pressure rather than any personal conversions / convictions. The pressure for these young people is intense, and they can get it from parents, grandparents, siblings, aunts, uncles, cousins, neighbors, ward members, teachers, girlfriends, girlfriends' parents . . . you name it. So they wander into something they actually know very little about, get involved in "covenants" (rituals) they previously knew NOTHING about, and follow that path which consumes a good portion of their young lives, and impacts the rest of their mortality. I notice that the Fauci flu restrictions weeded a lot of people out of attendance in my ward, and I've also noticed that a lot of the ones who are left to attend these days are also some of the least well-adjusted ones, and the ones who are there largely because it's often their ONLY social venue.
Social consequences are a big part of why I was baptized at 8, accepted the oaths in the temple, and went on a mission. When I stopped attending, 99% of the members I was friends with ghost me, but it gets better.
Open-minded and broad-minded are two different things. A broad-minded person doesn't consider which ideas they should accept or neglect. An open-minded person actually puts thought into choosing to accept or neglect a new idea. Narrow-minded, doesn't that include not accepting the ideas of leaders?
4:00 or so "the Lord expects more of us than he does of them." I got the same thing as an evang. Christian child. We were practically born "knowing better" so we had no excuse not to be good examples to "nonbelievers" all the time. It made me feel important but scared.
Unfortunately, happens a lot. A lot of people have apparently inherently totally screwed up values, and ecclesiastical affiliation can be a cover / facilitator for their goofiness.
Fear, guilt, shame, and accusation are staple influence tactics from toxic organizations and people. When I shared concerns about what I was learning about LDS truth claims, I was told that I would spend eternity in outer darkness for questioning God's truth, be hated by my family in this life, and lose my wealth. Some family member turned on me, but others respected my path. I'm fine financially. Outer darkness would be staying in the cult.
Call me Johnny Come Lately, but I finally watched Under the Banner of Heaven this week. Every time I think that I can''t get more pissed off about how Religion Poisons Everything (Great book by Christopher Hitchens') I see something else that makes my blood boil just a little bit more. Binging the show was probably not the best choice. I would recommend limiting oneself to two episodes a day. Your blood pressure will thank you. While I absolutely think that you're right about Mormonism being based on high control, I really see the parallels between what was discussed in UTBOH and my perspective of the role Christianly played in my life growing up. "Leave Your Doubts on the Shelf" is not a purely Mormon attitude. I feel like growing up I was told to do that very thing on multiple occasions. And in the spirit of full disclosure, it was something I gladly did.. For instance, the story of Abraham and Isaac. How is a parent being willing to gut their own child to show obedience to anything or anyone a good thing? Yet I was taught that Abraham was to be praised for tying up his son and raising his knife to kill him, only to get the "just kidding' reprieve at the last possible second. So in that last scene in UTBOH when one of the killers was being put in a police car screamed, "WAS ABRAHAM A CRIMINAL?" I found myself saying, "Well yeah, fucktard, actually he was." While I have no experience with the Mormon church, I see the similarities. What really strikes me about what you and so many others experienced was what I can only describe as a widespread infliction of trauma on so many for so long. It's so good that you and others are doing this. It's absolutely necessary for others inside to know that they can get out and they are not alone. Keep up the good work!
It’s amazing as an ex Jehovah’s Witnesses I can completely relate! The governing body of JW’s and Mormon leaders speak the same language and instill the same tactics of fear and control!
It seems that leaving the Mormon church is easier than leaving regular Christianity because the control and weirdness is more intense. But the fallout is similar in some ways. Family problems and rejection by friends can happen in both cases.
My journey out of the church began at Ricks College (now BYUI). I was not prepared for the all Mormon 24/7 and being laser focused on preparing for one's mission call. I knew at age 12 I was NEVER going to waste 2 years.
I sincerely hope that you are taking precautions to protect yourself and loved ones. My own opinions and questions has led to threats of violence and intimidation. I love your honesty and efforts to make truth be known of this horrific church and its followers. Please watch out for the haters. Big hug. BK
I'm a big fan of DISCIPLINE=FREEDOM! However I get to choose what my discipline will be, I get to choose what brings purpose to my life. I have never been afraid of any social scrutiny at church, Ever! Of course I tended not to get offended either. I'm a big fan of something Jordan Peterson said "in order to think you have to risk offending" if I was to get asked questions about my personal life, I would probably say, what makes you think I trust you enough to talk to you about my personal life? By the same token I don't want to ever cast aspersions upon somebody's faith because it might be the only thing that gives them hope in life. However, if somebody is offended by my existence at church, that motivates me to want to show up more. I love coffee with my breakfast. I love beer with my dinner. I support my kids in doing the things that bring them joy, they don't have to be perfect. They just got to do their best, at whatever their life purpose. If it offends somebody's delicate sensibilities of others, I don't care!
I would love a video on scrupulocity (I have no idea how to spell that!) As to where I will go? Well, my children and I walked past a Christan preacher near the mall a few weeks ago with the typical 'you will burn in hell for your sins' banner. (Obviously it wasn't LDS but the sentiment was similar) I told my kiddos that obviously my Queer Trans butt will be in hell but clearly that is where all of the fun people will be, so it is fine. * major eye roll vibes * honestly, I may be a lot lonelier but I don't have to deal with transphobia and my relationship with my kiddos isn't subject to me going to through the temple with somebody I don't want to be with, etc.
I agree with this idea to an extent. To be perfectly fair, I have found people in many church organizations and groups, including the LDS, who I believe are genuinely trying to do what’s best for their community through their church. That also includes some of the leadership in those organizations. I have nothing against those people at all. However, you’re unfortunately correct that ultimately many religious organizations use fear to rule people. That can be especially true the higher up the leadership ladder that you go in those organizations. People with more power often have more to lose, and unfortunately are more prone to corruption and abuses of power.
With absolutely all of this in play, fear, guilt, and everything else, imagine what it was like being a teenager, already scared shitless of the church, then finding out you're trans on top of all of that, and not knowing how to deal with it??? The church itself was exactly like that Abrahamic hell or outer darkness it taught us about for me. I never remember one shred of happiness being raised in that church, only fear, guilt, unworthiness, deep loneliness, self-hatred, and sheer unrelenting misery and depression.
Fear kept me in the church for a long time. I was the first member in my family, and was told I was supposed to be the example to lead my family to the church and the celestial kingdom. It took me way too long to realize that was way to much to put on a young child's shoulders and heart.
Tithing, money generational support
Fear keeps me around bc of my kids, my youngest overheard me talking about possibly leaving the church and had a panic attack 😢. I’ve honestly been questioning the church a long time.
@@crystalcordell7102 I'm so sorry. I feel for your kiddo. 🥺😢
Pray for you kids teach them how to obtain their personal testimony but get yours first
One of the first abusive things this organization does to it's youth is inculcate a sense of fear that the "anti-Mormons" are out to get them so this artificial mentality of "us vs. them" is instilled in their minds.
I have many gripes with the church but teaching us vs. the world to kids really gets me upset. Seeing little kids getting programmed and conditioned to say things they can’t understand feels so sleazy and manipulative. ‘Repeat after me. I know the church is true…)’ grrrrrt
Umm... Let me tell you what is 'anti-Mormon'. Drinking Alcohol, Smoking, Drugs/harmful substances, Pre-marital Sex, Killing, Adultery, Bearing False Witness, Denying the Holy Ghost, Denying Christ, Denying God, and Hating your neighbor are all 'anti-Mormon'. So parents and leaders that are trying to prevent their kids from 'Anti-Mormon' just want to keep their kids from any of these things. It is not an Us/Them more than it is a Predator/Prey type of situation. Parents are entitled and obligated to protect their kids from harmful influences that will cause them to participate in 'anti-Mormon' behaviors.
When I was in 3rd grade, a girl I had been friends with came up to me and asked me what religion I was. I told her none. She said, “I thought so.” She walked around asking other kids on the playground the same question. Kids said different things, and she always replied, “ I thought so.” She rarely talked to me after that. We lived near each other. Many years later when we were in high school her brothers knocked on our door sometime around Christmas. They asked if they could sing carols and talk to us. My dad has always been very welcoming and said of course. They sang and proselytized for a bit. We didn’t agree, but we’re kind regardless. After listening to various former Mormons, I think I have an understanding as to why this girl decided we could no longer be friends.
Yes and I grew up with that. It’s so damaging and I’m really trying to unlearn a lot of things
@@denz4133 As a mother, I listened to the songs they were teaching in primary. The kids were crying. Tired and hungry. Certain songs were being forced upon them. It was actually terrifying.
I have seen this very thing in my own family. My parents tried to guilt me and say things like, "We will be failures as parents if you don't stay in the church." It's so manipulative and sad that they have been programed to believe such things.
I'll often get the "But where do your morals come from without God?" question, and all I can think of to say is "From my brain like everyone else!"
I went threw the same thing but my parents are devoted Catholic .They told me if I didn't make my first communion I would be the ashamed child.
More recently I realized that you can't go to heaven (the highest degree) unless you pay for it. That's some scary stuff. When the pandemic hit around March of 2020 and it naturally provided detachment from church meetings I actually felt such a sense of relief. I started to think about all the things that we were required to do that are attached with guilt and fear. Much of my life I got a sense that I was never enough. It is drilled into the members as they're sitting in sacrament meetings, the youth programs and the temple. And many of the general conference talks just came off to me as very condescending, cold and unloving. I believe the conditioning and indoctrination from the church has kept me in a lot of abuse throughout my life. That's where I'm at now, freeing myself from the control.
Thank you for sharing. Glad you got off the hamster wheel and started thinking for yourself. It’s rewarding to discover reality.
LOL, I missed the fear part guess I need to read the Bible again.
@Beverly A. I really think that you are making excuses so you don't have to go to Church or listen to General Conference. Take your first point, you can't go to heaven unless you pay for it. Are you talking about you can't go to the temple unless you pay your tithing? Tithing is paying 1/10th of your increase. Your increase suggests that you are producing something that you didn't have before. If you truly believe in God, you would also believe that He made EVERYTHING you have. On Mother's Day have you ever given a gift to your Mom to show that you Love Her. It is also to acknowledge that she gave you a life worth living. You would do this for your Mom if she asked and if God asked who created your mom's greatest grand mom, you would think he was just interested in your money and nothing else. Newsflash, God is not interested in your money. Just like your Mom, he is interested in your Love and your increase doesn't have to equate to dollars and bills, that is just an easy way of valuating your personal increase. Heck back in the day, Christ asked his followers to give up ALL that they had in order to follow Him. A life without possessions really does humbles someone and find out their real worth. Leaving God will make you feel like you can do whatever you want, but the real lesson and the real pain are just the same for all of us, just one is with God and one is without Him.
Jacob Samuelson... Obviously you made the assumption that I don't believe in God which I do but I don't have to prove anything to you. what I'm talking about is the psychological and emotional effect of a process of conditioning over many years. I don't have to defend myself of what my life's experiences especially those related to abuse through church participation along with a very dysfunctional family and a husband of 19 years has taken it's toll on me. My ex-husband used unrighteous Dominion to try to control me and our children. Doing all the things you are talking about is something that I did and that did not prevent me from being mistreated and misguided in many ways.
@@beverlya.8751 When did I assume you didn't believe in God? Please? Because I really hate it when people put things in my mouth when it is clearly documented that I didn't assume anything. I understand your dysfunctional family and your abusive relationships. I have had them too (mostly outside the church) and you should seek healing as best as you can, but to do as every 'Ex-mormon' on these shows do and make absurd generalizations and blame shift all of your problems on the Church, not only doesn't help you or your trauma, but I sort of 'gaslights' others to believing that their lives will magically be better by running away from their problems. The Church is from Christ. So if you believe in the Bible and believe that the Saints went through some pretty traumatic stuff than I don't know what you would expect from following Christ today? People like your unrighteous dominant husband is specifically rebuked in D and C 121. The Church wants to help people like him to understand what he should be doing. If he doesn't want to listen to the Church, that is his fault and I am glad you are rid of him, but the Churches teaching stay the same.
Yes, I would like a video about scrupolosity. I utterly enjoy your videos, and now when I'm deconstructing my faith, (I used to be a JW, still am, on paper, but not attending reunions anymore), they are a true consolation, and make me feel less lonely.
Seeing how well the church fits in the bite model really helped me process so many of my emotions and experiences. I love that you are going over these points thank you lex!
This same friend of mine went to BYU right after his mission. We actually served in the same one. Through a friend he was set up on a blind date with a beautiful girl. She had just gotten back from her mission. They dated, it was getting serious and he asked me if I'd come to the temple for the wedding which they were planning. A few weeks later he called me and was crying. I asked him what was wrong. It turns out that because he wasn't a Utah boy from good Utah stock, the mother said I don't approve. She was heartbroken he was but she had to obey her mother and the father apparently gave in. She married somebody the mother approved of from a good old Utah family. They ended up having 7 kids and she's unhappy. She told a mutual friend that they still both talk to. BUT.......her husband has a major job at BYU, and will probably move up in the Church. He has written books, represents the university at big conferences but the wife puts on a happy face. How sad. My friend got over it 5 years later and found the love of his life and they have been together now for over 30 years. He said it still bothers him sometimes.
Oooh! This bullying mormon rhetoric makes me so angry!! I was so sucked in! Did you ever hear them say that if you served your family it was selfish?? Serving your own children, parents, siblings was taught to be selfish, that you were only serving yourself if you served your own family members... The only service that "counted" was service given to the church or other members not directly related to an individual. Sheesh! Thanks for your affirming discourse regarding: "I did the right thing to leave!"
Fear of hell, fear of losing family, losing the fellowship. They want you to be afraid of everything so you stay and obey
You forgot a couple things. They want you to pray pay and obey... With a strong emphasis on paying because without a full tithing you can't go to the temple and have a forever family. Sounds like the mob collecting a ransom after kidnapping your children.
@@GuyRegular oh I remember lol but I found just dealing with the weekly stuff more fearful because it was more routine. The temple was more of a annual thing. But yeah, tithing was enforced, fast offerings were enforced, just pure lunacy
"Stay & obey."
So that the exploit you…as they wish.
I think I lost my salvation at the thought of boobies and coffee lol. But they do use fear to make you stay or try to make you feel wanted. When I was living in Manchester a missionary started talking to me so I decided to listen and just play along a bit ( I was in a new city with hardly any friends) then I gave the game away and told him I was an ex-member then he said the strangest thing to me well it seemed odd to me !?? he said: "We miss you !!" I turned around and said "How can you miss me if you don't even know me" He got all flustered and couldn't think what to say at that point, so I felt sorry for him, gave him my thoughts and why he shouldn't say a thing like that politely and went on my way.
We do miss you!!
I was lucky I was 16, so hadn't gone through the temple, hadn't entered adulthood as a member, etc, I think for that reason it was easier to notice the control and decide I didn't like it and reject it. But, it was super scary, I didn't tell a soul for about a year, and "coming out" (so to speak) as a non-Mormon and atheist the experience I had proved why I was scared. People can be awful when you leave a cult.
That is a perfect expression of leaving the church. Their are a lot of closeted non-believers in the church, afraid to come out because of the persecution, and abandonment that would ensue
It’s so weird
That’s exactly my experience as well, except I lost my faith at 18. I’m thankful I got out while still young. I couldn’t take that church anymore. So many things that didn’t add up or make any sense and no matter how faithful and devoted I was, I could never understand all the hate, bigotry and hypocrisy that goes on within the church. I just wanted to love people and I realized I didn’t need a cult to tell me how to do that.
I've never understood the transforming from "Mormon" to atheist. To me, that's just summarily throwing the proverbial baby out with the bathwater. Thinking that all this (ALL OF IT) just popped up out of nowhere for no reason makes no sense at all. I think a lot of people will be searching for truth as long as they're alive, but at least they're searching, and looking for things that add up and make sense.
@@joetaylor8687 Things that add up and make sense? How does a sky daddy "make sense"?
I’m loving this series! Once you break down the BITE model it is so glaringly obvious tscc is a cult.
Keep up the great work, Lexi!! 👍🤩
My grandmother (not mormon) was in a cult when I was growing up. she came out for thanksgiving one year and wouldn't eat the turkey because her der leader said eating meat was bad. The next year when she came out, my mom made her a vegetarian option and grandma went right for the turkey. when my mom and other family members said, "I thought the leader said you can't eat meat", grandma denied ever having been told that or having said that, though there were many family members who remembered her saying that. sorry for the sidebar, but your comment about controlling what members eat and drink brought that back up for me.
I’d known fear throughout my 42 year tenure in the Church. I remember a talk in GC Priesthood where Ezra Taft Benson gave a dire warning to unmarried Elders that they risked their salvation by not finding wives in the starkest terms. It left me afraid and crying for months afterwards. (I was not able to be married because I hadn’t gone on a mission, so I was being politely shunned by the sisters in the ward - and the one sister I got engaged to had rage issues).
Even when I went inactive, the conditioning that The Brethren subjected me to left me fearful and paranoid, and I felt that unless I returned to Church and the straight and narrow, I would be condemned to Hell. Even though being there made me suicidal.
Thankfully the Church’s actions regarding the November Policy was what really motivated me to question everything. Much research later - podcasts with John Dehlin and Radio Free Mormon, discovering the rock in a hat story was true, and finally hearing M. Russell Ballard blatantly lie about the Church’s hiding things from members, and I was done - I hit QuitMormon.
I’m still alone, but I’m in a much happier, calmer place. Even with the most recent calamities I’ve gone through, I feel stronger and more positive about life. Having the yoke of fear the Church put on my neck removed was the best thing. I love what you do Lex, and keep doing what you do.
Sometimes people get up to a pulpit have have some wisdom and sound advice. But sometimes, it's all overshadowed by the heavy dose of asinine nonsense that may be there too.
Amen. I've been there too man. I know how you feel
I'm not a Mormon but I have ancestors who were in the very early church. Listening to your story is very moving and I admire your courage so much.
Crazy how while Jehovah’s witnesses and Mormons are so different.. and yet in other ways, they are Very much alike. Such as the Instilling fear in members, fear independent thinking, fear being shunned… etc… and not to mention both being cult religions. The mind control, sisters having to be So submissive do the brothers & elders, and JW’s also say the same things about the world, and “worldly” and also “in the world” and “of the world” and being “counseled” by 3 elders (alone) because I have “worldly” friends.” And having to read 1 Corinthians 15:33 “Do not be misled. Bad associations spoil useful habits.” My “worldly friends” are not even bad. Very sweet people. “Worldly people” are Not bad associations just because they don’t want to be JW’s. Or because they celebrate holidays & birthdays. I am one of Many who had the fear instilled in me, of being destroyed at Armegeddan and not inheriting everlasting life on a paradise earth if we commit sins or decide to not be a Jehovah’s witnesses. Definitely big threats about that stuff as well. Oh and JW’s also will tell you that there is “no true happiness and love” outside the religion. JW’s & Mormons are a lot more alike than they will ever admit. (JW’s just don’t celebrate holidays & birthdays and believe in everlasting life on a paradise earth with all the wicked & “worldly” people and Satan and bad and demons gone. Other than those differences, JW’s & Mormons really are So much alike. Especially with the disfellowshipping/ex communication and shunning. And all the control.
My sister was a 25 year member of the Jehovah's Witnesses. I could see this control and fear instilled in her for myself. It's so sad. We were raised Episcopalian, and I am one to this day. I feel blessed to be in a faith community where I can think for myself!
Gaslighting used to make members think they are going crazy when in fact they were told the opposite in the past and those memories are real.
Amazing video as usual. Perfectly articulated. Solid research. I bare my testimony that this video is true :)
Incorrectly blaming the person for leaving the church saying "Oh, they must have had a weak testimony."
If your leaving the church then there’s a good chance you didn’t have a very grounded testimony. It’s not hard for strong members to leave. I have 2 siblings who are inactive and one that has left.
It’s always a choice for you to stay or leave. We don’t make you leave.
This lady will be held very accountable for her what she is putting out there even if she doesn’t agree with the church. We are all held accountable for our actions. It has been said in the scriptures that even the very elect will fall. It’s interesting that she is proof of scripture. Good luck to you all
@@trishachristensen2238 Don't be so sure of your "testimony" - you're only one major faith crisis away from becoming an exmo just like us. 😊 Better enjoy the view from that lofty perch while you're up there!
@@natalieholt8477 There's a 100% chance that NONE of them have a well-grounded testimony because their religion is all one big fraud, and I get so sick and tired of this Holier-than-thou nonsense. People leaving The Church isn't proof of "Even the very elect will fall". It's proof of people finding out the truth and not being afraid to stand up to their peers and speak out about it. She doesn't wish any of us "good luck". Right now she's praying that we'll all rot in Hell so that she can rub it in our faces how right she was. It's a real immature mentality that people really need to grow up from. It is really getting old.
@@trishachristensen2238Also, I sure hope you’re kinder to your sisters than you were in the comments. It doesn’t take a lot to love one another. I think it’s easier out of the church to do so though. 🤷♀️ At the end of the day, the final judgement is up to God not you! 🙌 Only He knows people’s hearts perfectly. People are allowed to share their experiences and how they feel. You’re also allowed to feel threatened by it I suppose.
This helps me so much to understand why I “lost” a friend who is Mormon.
You’re absolutely gorgeous. Thank you for helping put words to my trauma and experiences. I’ve really appreciated your input during my deconstructing journey❤️
My parents moved the goalposts constantly with fear. First I left their house at 16, moved in with my ExMo dad and they pressured me to keep up church/seminary. Then they tried to pressure me to go on a mission and that didn't work because I joined the military and got far away. In the military, I actually found true faith in God, fell in love with a Greek Orthodox woman, converted and they threatened to disown me. Unlike the LDS church, they were also allowed to attend my own wedding as non-members, and welcomed as guests with open arms. Then I had my kids and baptized them in my new faith, and they said they would for real for real disown me for not bringing them up in the one true church. Then and only then did they finally gave up on their empty threats and decided they didn't want to lose their son and grandkids from their life.
For those who were my age, be aware that you have a choice. Most people in this world also don't do what they say, and say what they mean; if they don't follow through on a promise once, they will probably give up ground again.
So why did you baptise your kids if everyone has a choice and you know first hand what it's like when parents try to force religion on their children?
Where will I go if I’m not in the church? Wherever the f I want. FREEDOM!!
Also isn’t a temple a great and spacious building?
Yes, they usually tower over all other structures in the area!
A great and specious building is more like it. I believe Jesus talked of buildings that the Pharisees had which seemed great but were “whited sephulcures” inside (in other words, a tomb.)
I swear, if Christ returns and goes to SLC, he’s going to be carrying a whip.
The moment you realized the church is a cult is one of the angriest yet happiest days you’ll ever experience.
Perfectly said. Thank you.
We won't miss you. Adios!
@@ThirdBrainLives spoken like a true cult mormon
Well to be fair.
It can be argued everyone uses the bite model in some shape or form.
Not just religion but even none religious groups use it
But you do bring up good points I am not going to lie.
I mean guys how would you feel if your dad would rather see you come home dead instead of coming home alive from your mission?
That's pretty f*uck up sh*t right there. That's not love, that's just flat out hatred / child abuse
If I was a father I'd sooner see my son come home alive then to see him dead. So what if he lost his virginity? His life is more valuable then his sexual innocence.
In the story of the Prodigal son the father welcomed his son back regardless of the stupid stuff he did.
That's showing true love.
Well thats why she said they have to have at least like 90% of the terms in order to actually be considered a cult.
I once heard a story of a young woman who had gotten hurt and was in the hospital her Mormon family loved and supported her and was going to pay the hospital bill in full, as soon as they caught wind that she was bi, they withdrew their money so her check would bounce and then told her they will not support her in any way shape or form, because then they'd loose their salvation. Just literally a complete 180. I commented that's not real love.
I had major scrupulosity. You should totally do a video about it! Also, I love your content. Keep up the good work!
“Through obedience, one finds freedom” wowza like they keep using that word i do not think it means what they think that means
Former Catholic, started questioning it when I was 12, and by the time I was 14 I left. I’m 27 now, and everyday I value my agnosticism so much more
“So true things become untrue because I say them?”
That is a fantastic quote!
Bruce R. McConkie was a Gold Mine with a lot of quotes.
Yes, and now we're supposed to totally ignore all McHonky said about the difference in races, etc. But of course, he was inspired as one of the duly anointed ones, right? No? So we can still quote A LOT from Joseph'sMyth and a lot of current folk like Dallin Hoax . . . but don't you dare be picking on Bruce R., 'cause you're not supposed to criticize the recently departed.
@@joetaylor8687 I am with you that these guys like Bruce McConkie were just making crap up, but if you are going to criticize someone for past racism, it doesn't help your cause by being racist yourself. McHonky? Really? Don't complain about racism if you are casually throwing out racial slurs yourself.
@@nickdipaolofan5948 I thought I was just being open and honest. Never considered it any "slur" or any kind.
@@joetaylor8687 You never considered "Honky" a slur? Really?? Why don't you go up to a black person and label them "McNi__R" and see how that works out for you......
Racism is racism. And if you think that racial slurs are okay so long as they are against one racial group and not okay for another racial group, that is racist.
Bruce McConkie seemed like a real asshole based on what I have read from him. But making a racial slur at him just reduces you to his level.
I don't know what scrupulosity is? It could be a good video.
Basically religious OCD!
Thanks!
I’ve even heard from a member that women are not supposed to turn down more than 2 marriage proposals . I have an LDS friend who is getting engaged after one month ( barely ) after meeting him on an LDS dating site. I’m so scared for her. I sure hope it works. That “ church” gets you from every side of life by instilling fear of just living your own life and making your own choices. I resigned almost 3 years ago. I’m still afraid of losing her. She doesn’t know I left, but she knows I got to “ apostate “ churches. Lol, the look on her face, when o pointed out a non Mormon church I currently attend . How is she going to react when I finally get up the courage to tell her I’m no longer a church member. I just thought she could put 2 and 2 together, as when I visit her Ward I do not take the sacrament. She will probably “ demote” me as a friend.
Ever find it hilarious how they talk about the evils of ‘the world’ and ‘things’ but Monson built multimillion dollar Condos and yelled ‘Let’s shop!’ At the opening of City Creek (ya know where the church rents store fronts to little family stores like Tiffany’s and Nordstroms). The irony of it all.
Is it open on Sunday?
@@learnhope7895 No, it's closed on Sundays
@@RedTheThief Funny!🤣 Their greed is okay as long as you don't shop on Sunday 🤣 That is your tithing dollar's at work for the Lord
Oh yeah, it's a multi-billion "non-profit" corporation!
Upon watching this, I realized that my devout (not a thought in her head that wasn't put their by someone else) LDS mom-in-law makes most of her major decisions out of fear. Particularly when it comes to medicine, her fear of adverse side effects consistently outweighs her fear of the disease itself. She refused the COVID-19 vaccine, caught it, felt horrible for about a month, recovered, and now cites the fact that she didn't _die_ as justification for her fear of a medicine that _could have_ greatly minimized her suffering. Far more heartbreaking is the fact that her fear motivated her adult son to fight cancer with "natural treatments" rather than even _try_ chemo. They bought him some time, but ultimately never stood a chance...and now he's gone.
As briefly referenced in this video...and more extensively in another..."Follow the Prophet," _is_ her default, _but_ she defaults to _personal revelation_ and rationalizations like, "Well, it's a _recommendation,_ not a _commandment,"_ whenever it comes to things she _fears._ Unfortunately, her lifelong efforts to avoid _worldliness_ have resulted in such a high degree of _ignorance_ about damned near every topic imaginable, that she is easily manipulated by any authoritative speaker who reinforces her _fears,_ so much so that it even short-circuits her _faith._
My intuition tells me no faith or religion should cause fear or anxiety. It should bring love and comfort. No matter what.
Excuse me!
Made up things can’t bring "love and comfort." First; understand this. Secondly; understand that religions in general…all of them around the world…ARE, made up stories.
This series is excellent, keep up the great work! Thanks for all you do, it really helped me find my way out and get back on my feet =)
As we always joked as kids, that little Primary hymn "Follow the Prophet" is an ominous song that would perfectly fit a movie villain.
Yes please, I *definitely* want a video on mormon scrupulosity 😑 Please do make one covering it!
Great episode! Thank you so much for your content and commentary, Lexi. Your commentary is very healing for me!
I was never really scared, but I HATED being told a bunch of stupid rules just meant to control me.
did my cult copy your cult or did your cult copy my cult?
"Outer darkness" sounds awesome, Like something from Tolkien. Better than "telestial"...whatever that means. Just saying.
I can definitely agree that fear outside of the church is very real. When I was first dipping my toes in watching ex mormon content I felt so much fear I was going to be eternally punished for watching youtube videos. I started watching your videos first ExMo Lex! I said to myself "I'll watch her videos, but I won't subscribe." I felt that if I subscribed I would literally burn in hell. Luckily I've been able to snap out of the fear the church instilled in me. Now I create my own exmo content on Instagram! Thank you for your wonderful content! You helped me more than you will ever know!
I have a friend who has held Church positions in his ward and stake and is still somewhat active. Covid meant zoom meetings but he still clicked on them on Sundays. He told me a story of what happened to him when he went to a specialist appointment in Florida. He and the doctor were talking and it came up that he was LDS. The doctor wasn't. He said I have a good story for you. One of my patients is Jewish and from Ireland originally. He designed and helped build many of the temples (this was about 10 years ago he told me). Apparently the GAs have a Christmas dinner and this man was a guest of honor as he was so important. The only thing on the menu was roast pork. The man looked around and asked Elder Ballard if there was anything else to eat. Elder Ballard (now this was told to the doctor who told my friend who told me) said to him don't tell me you're Jewish and he laughed. You don't look like a Jew. The man asked him Elder Ballard what do Jews look like and why can't there be Irish Jews? Blacks weren't allowed to be full Mormons until the late 70s true? Nobody talked to this man the rest of the night and he no longer is involved in the temple building.
I was a committed member of the church for my whole life (brought up in it), then I got with my now fiancé who isn't a member and he realised how much it was damaging me and I discovered your channel around the same time and now I'm not a member at all I go to a church now who is just basic christians and I have never felt happier and more accepted. if you're a member of LDS ad you're questioning you're believes, trust your instinct, I did and I've never been happier.
Praise God!!! It sucks that a lot of Mormans go to atheism.
I'd love an episode on scrupulousity!
Absolutely agree!
Me too!
"....the enemies of the Lord Jesus Christ and his saints... False doctrines, false teachers and pride..." Now this presents a serious problem for the church because Brigham Young taught that Adam was God and they only god with which we have to do and he taught it to the whole church and he also said in the journal of discourses that any sermon that he preached was as good as any scripture couched in the Bible.... But now the church denounces the Adam God doctrine has false doctrine and is to another prideful profit of the church Joseph Smith said he's done more than Jesus Christ did. I think the church leaders have to have a compartmentalized mind to ignore these teachings and lie to the church that they never really happened.
Yeah, about the only meaningful constant is continual flip-flopping regarding doctrine, theology, policy, etc. But what gig, huh! If you can convince a lot of people of your moral, spiritual, and / or intellectual superiority (and claim that you're the "Lord's anointed"), many will send you 10% of their earnings for life, and you'll never have to actually work for a living. What deal, huh? Get up occasionally and run your mouth, and as long as you're one of the SELF-APPOINTED or WELL-CONNECTED ones, all will be rosy for the duration of your mortality.
The fear is so real, and can often be difficult for the non-religious or mildly religious to understand. I think it’s one of the hardest & also one of the final things to conquer. Great video!
Me: why does this seem so familiar?
*Looks on in Ex-Jw*
Which kingdom does lds believe protestant christians and catholics go to?
You go to kinda purgatory but not hell because it's not all your fault you didn't learn the true church.
But you can choose to accept and learn the gospel before you've been sorted and have still alive people do your temple work and make it into mid-tier heaven. You still won't qualify for ultra-heaven though.
Probably Terrestrial if they were generally good people, or Telestial if they were bad.
@@angelicataylor7179 Wow nuts. Thank you.
@@ExmoLex Interesting. Thank you.
@@angelicataylor7179 I’ve never heard that nonmembers who got their temple work done after death would still never get to the celestial kingdom. That was always the whole point of doing temple work! To offer that person the same chance as every other member.
I remember being taught that once a (deceased) person’s temple work had been done, they were able to get out of “spirit prison” and their blessings were the same as any living member. If they accepted the work done on their behalf they could eventually reach exaltation (the highest degree of the highest kingdom). What’s the point of doing all that temple work if those people have no chance of true salvation?
I mean, I know the point of the temple is actually to keep control over the members, get people to pay their 10% and “otherize” those “worthy” enough to go in. But from a member’s perspective it is to give that dead person the chance they never had in life (to learn and accept the gospel and make their covenants). Why wouldn’t they be able to also go to the highest degree?
Don’t get me wrong, I understand it’s all nonsense, but they have to at least give a plausible reason to keep people coming back.
This series is so great!
The Church is the Great and Spacious Building. Pointing and mocking.
The part about how members agree to do things out of fear of social repercussion reminded me of something:
Back when I went to BYU Idaho (ironically, my time there was a big factor in me leaving the church) I was in a religion class. And as all byu classes do, we had opening prayers. The professor was going down the rows to decide who was going to say it. That day it was my turn. I was already nervous since I didn’t like saying prayers in front of people, and I misheard the question. I heard “have you said the opening prayer yet?” when the question ACTUALLY was “will you say the opening prayer?”
So I said no.
The professor just said okay and moved to the next person in the row, but I was so ashamed I went up to him afterwards to APOLOGIZE for hearing the question wrong and saying no.
He was very nice about it and told me not to worry, but now looking back I now see how messed up that was.
Ah, yes, Nephi's dream... The "great and spacious building" with people whose "manner of dress was exceedingly fine."
I'm just like... is that not describing the church? Their temples and their garments? They look down upon the world and scoff or worse?
Islam is not much different. The Quran in summary:
A) be good (be obedient, worship Allah and put Muhammad on a pedestal - you are on the winning team!)
B) others are bad (disbelievers, free thinkers, challenge to religious claims)
C) if you have characteristics of B, you will be tormented and punished in hell.
D) if you have characteristics of A (and are male) you will live in a hedonistic paradise.
E) the end.
I have also been judged so so judged. I stopped being super active when I had my first brain surgery and not a soul from my ward except for my mom cared. It was at this time (during recovery) that i separated from my now ex husband. So yep plenty of judgement…and then when President Monson passed and Nelson was “called “ to be prophet something in me screamed NO THIS ISN’T RIGHT
Thinking for yourself does lead to apostasy because we can see the problems with the church and it’s teachings. They want us to just follow, even in its leaders.
I'm a simple guy my friend posts a new video. And I watch it. :)
How about anything that is critical of past doctrine or history or challenges assumptions about past church narratives is automatically dismissed as "anti-mormon." The majority of the time it is is true and can be found in books often written by church members or on the LDS church website. An example is the top hat and seer stone in the Book of Mormon translation. I was told for decades that this was "anti-mormon" folklore, yet this is now accepted as fact on the church website.
Yeah south park showed it 15 years ago, and it was dead on.. how many of these cult members still don't even know it was what really happened?
@@sjenson6694 Most of them haven't a clue.
Anxiously engaged.
8:20 that statement contradicts itself on so many levels.
So they admit we can't purify ourselves and yet they say we have to live righteous lives to be forgiven?
Lol yeah that's not grace.
Kinda does doesn't it.
emotional control (fear) is tied closely with informational control; when we realize that the historicity of the first vision, and the BOM , is bogus then the fear in emotion control melts away. If the standard works, as well the leadership of prophets and seers, is all bullshit then there is nothing to fear.
marcus
Well stated
This is a very important point on the BITE model that clearly shows the church falls into the cult category. I struggle with the idea of the church controlling people, as in does the church control behaviour and thoughts or does it just teach things but not control? But I can definitely see that it instills fear through these various ways layed out in this video.
Please do a video about scrupulosity! I know so many people who suffer from it
F.....ING CRAZY MAKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would be very interested in a video on scrupulosity.
Please do a vid on scrupulosity! I've got OCD and scrupulosity used to be a MASSIVE part of it when I was in the church (a very specific religious fear that started thanks to an *amazing* (catch the sarcasm) seminary lesson). Fortunately now I'm gone the fear is mostly gone too, but it still flairs up even now. It's awful. No kid should have to go through that.
I have rescued many girls from the church so I am one the enemies they talk about
I wonder when "the church" is going to start calling you out by name. You are that good at what you do, and are a threat to the lies.
I've kinda wondered if they now have a policy / program of basically informal disfellowship--kind of a chickens__t way of dealing with people they consider undesirable without actually making a fuss or taking any of the risks that might accompany direct confrontation.
@@joetaylor8687 that is interesting. I caught my bishop and stake president lying to me (and I got them on video). I was released from my calling (Gospel Doctrine teacher) and all of a sudden they were radio silent with me. I have now been open that I question many church claims, but I am still active because my wife wants to still go.
Although they have not told me that they have put any restrictions on me, I wouldn't be surprised if they did put me on some sort of probation (like maybe I can't hold a calling or pass the sacrament or take the sacrament) but never told me. I can see this happening because they are afraid of confrontation and I have no problem with confrontations.
@@nickdipaolofan5948 Your situation sounds a lot like mine. My wife won't go to any F & T meetings, but otherwise seems to have no complaints . . . so we often go. But yeah, it's pretty apparent they want about as little of me as they can possibly arrange--and I now oblige them my rendering ZERO dollars donated. I figure most members who are "active" just never study or question anything, and then they rely on that monthly situation with F & T meetings, where people jump up and verbalize what they "know" to be true on open-mike day. In fact, many "leaders," like Dallin Oaks and Boyd Packer have encouraged essentially "lying for the Lord," teaching that the best way to gain or strengthen a testimony is to BARE the testimony. In other words, jump up and profess what you "know" to be true, when you know no such thing; I guess the idea is that in time, you'll have even yourself convinced.
@@joetaylor8687 you are probably right in your assessment. And the "lying for the lord" unspoken policy was one of the major things that solidified to me that this was not God's church, but rather a good ol boys club that one climbs the ranks through nepotism and not merit or devotion. After understanding this, my eyes were opened and I could see the connection for just about every calling. The bishop was life long friends with the stake president who called him. The RS president happens to be the best friend of the bishops wife. The EQ president was the bishops employee. etc. Every calling had more to do with who was connected with the person doing the choosing.
Started guessing who was going to be the next bishop or RS president and was crazy accurate to the point where my wife thought I had a gift. She was disappointed when I told her how I was guessing (based on who is in what click in the ward, who was wealthy, from what family, etc). Once you see how the magic trick is done, it is no longer impressive.
@@nickdipaolofan5948 I firmly believe that at least 80% of "active" members are there for social (as opposed to spiritual) reasons, and that nearly all missionaries are out there due to social pressure rather than any personal conversions / convictions. The pressure for these young people is intense, and they can get it from parents, grandparents, siblings, aunts, uncles, cousins, neighbors, ward members, teachers, girlfriends, girlfriends' parents . . . you name it. So they wander into something they actually know very little about, get involved in "covenants" (rituals) they previously knew NOTHING about, and follow that path which consumes a good portion of their young lives, and impacts the rest of their mortality. I notice that the Fauci flu restrictions weeded a lot of people out of attendance in my ward, and I've also noticed that a lot of the ones who are left to attend these days are also some of the least well-adjusted ones, and the ones who are there largely because it's often their ONLY social venue.
thanks for sharing.
Thanks!
Great stuff, Lex!
i love you and ur eyelashes
Social consequences are a big part of why I was baptized at 8, accepted the oaths in the temple, and went on a mission.
When I stopped attending, 99% of the members I was friends with ghost me, but it gets better.
Open-minded and broad-minded are two different things.
A broad-minded person doesn't consider which ideas they should accept or neglect.
An open-minded person actually puts thought into choosing to accept or neglect a new idea.
Narrow-minded, doesn't that include not accepting the ideas of leaders?
4:00 or so "the Lord expects more of us than he does of them." I got the same thing as an evang. Christian child. We were practically born "knowing better" so we had no excuse not to be good examples to "nonbelievers" all the time. It made me feel important but scared.
Thanks!
🫶
My heart hurts for your husband. I can’t imagine any reason I could outright disown my child.
Unfortunately, happens a lot. A lot of people have apparently inherently totally screwed up values, and ecclesiastical affiliation can be a cover / facilitator for their goofiness.
always helpful content
Thank you so much for all you do!
Fear, guilt, shame, and accusation are staple influence tactics from toxic organizations and people. When I shared concerns about what I was learning about LDS truth claims, I was told that I would spend eternity in outer darkness for questioning God's truth, be hated by my family in this life, and lose my wealth. Some family member turned on me, but others respected my path. I'm fine financially. Outer darkness would be staying in the cult.
Call me Johnny Come Lately, but I finally watched Under the Banner of Heaven this week. Every time I think that I can''t get more pissed off about how Religion Poisons Everything (Great book by Christopher Hitchens') I see something else that makes my blood boil just a little bit more.
Binging the show was probably not the best choice. I would recommend limiting oneself to two episodes a day. Your blood pressure will thank you.
While I absolutely think that you're right about Mormonism being based on high control, I really see the parallels between what was discussed in UTBOH and my perspective of the role Christianly played in my life growing up.
"Leave Your Doubts on the Shelf" is not a purely Mormon attitude. I feel like growing up I was told to do that very thing on multiple occasions. And in the spirit of full disclosure, it was something I gladly did..
For instance, the story of Abraham and Isaac. How is a parent being willing to gut their own child to show obedience to anything or anyone a good thing? Yet I was taught that Abraham was to be praised for tying up his son and raising his knife to kill him, only to get the "just kidding' reprieve at the last possible second.
So in that last scene in UTBOH when one of the killers was being put in a police car screamed, "WAS ABRAHAM A CRIMINAL?" I found myself saying, "Well yeah, fucktard, actually he was."
While I have no experience with the Mormon church, I see the similarities. What really strikes me about what you and so many others experienced was what I can only describe as a widespread infliction of trauma on so many for so long.
It's so good that you and others are doing this. It's absolutely necessary for others inside to know that they can get out and they are not alone.
Keep up the good work!
It’s amazing as an ex Jehovah’s Witnesses I can completely relate! The governing body of JW’s and Mormon leaders speak the same language and instill the same tactics of fear and control!
Christians and Buddhist teach all these concepts about the worldly pursuits
I wonder when exactly "unclean" became a permenant condition. In Judaism you just take a bath.
Excuse me can’t drink tea of coffee when caught elders do it in there home
It seems that leaving the Mormon church is easier than leaving regular Christianity because the control and weirdness is more intense. But the fallout is similar in some ways. Family problems and rejection by friends can happen in both cases.
Heaven as they claim....isn't for those willing to manipulate humans. They have us praying for their sins. Not ours.
Thumbnail is premium content.
A+ thumbnail! 😂
Do not fear anything except the Lord (1 Samuel 12:24; Isaiah 8:13 plus many more verses).
My journey out of the church began at Ricks College (now BYUI). I was not prepared for the all Mormon 24/7 and being laser focused on preparing for one's mission call. I knew at age 12 I was NEVER going to waste 2 years.
Lots of cults who proclaim God....but instead, it is the devious nature of a group who takes liberty to harm anyone who stands.
I sincerely hope that you are taking precautions to protect yourself and loved ones. My own opinions and questions has led to threats of violence and intimidation. I love your honesty and efforts to make truth be known of this horrific church and its followers. Please watch out for the haters. Big hug. BK
I'm a big fan of DISCIPLINE=FREEDOM! However I get to choose what my discipline will be, I get to choose what brings purpose to my life.
I have never been afraid of any social scrutiny at church, Ever!
Of course I tended not to get offended either. I'm a big fan of something Jordan Peterson said "in order to think you have to risk offending" if I was to get asked questions about my personal life, I would probably say, what makes you think I trust you enough to talk to you about my personal life? By the same token I don't want to ever cast aspersions upon somebody's faith because it might be the only thing that gives them hope in life. However, if somebody is offended by my existence at church, that motivates me to want to show up more. I love coffee with my breakfast. I love beer with my dinner. I support my kids in doing the things that bring them joy, they don't have to be perfect. They just got to do their best, at whatever their life purpose. If it offends somebody's delicate sensibilities of others, I don't care!
I would love a video on scrupulocity (I have no idea how to spell that!)
As to where I will go? Well, my children and I walked past a Christan preacher near the mall a few weeks ago with the typical 'you will burn in hell for your sins' banner. (Obviously it wasn't LDS but the sentiment was similar) I told my kiddos that obviously my Queer Trans butt will be in hell but clearly that is where all of the fun people will be, so it is fine. * major eye roll vibes * honestly, I may be a lot lonelier but I don't have to deal with transphobia and my relationship with my kiddos isn't subject to me going to through the temple with somebody I don't want to be with, etc.
I always wondered 🤔 how was I supposed to follow a person when I did not "know the person's character " even my bishops I did not know them.
What's "scrupulousity?"
I agree with this idea to an extent. To be perfectly fair, I have found people in many church organizations and groups, including the LDS, who I believe are genuinely trying to do what’s best for their community through their church. That also includes some of the leadership in those organizations. I have nothing against those people at all. However, you’re unfortunately correct that ultimately many religious organizations use fear to rule people. That can be especially true the higher up the leadership ladder that you go in those organizations. People with more power often have more to lose, and unfortunately are more prone to corruption and abuses of power.
With absolutely all of this in play, fear, guilt, and everything else, imagine what it was like being a teenager, already scared shitless of the church, then finding out you're trans on top of all of that, and not knowing how to deal with it???
The church itself was exactly like that Abrahamic hell or outer darkness it taught us about for me. I never remember one shred of happiness being raised in that church, only fear, guilt, unworthiness, deep loneliness, self-hatred, and sheer unrelenting misery and depression.