Yes absolutely! Which is why their leaders strictly forbid the members from going to any other sources (like the internet) about the religion. They beat it into the members’ heads that any literature about them that they don’t teach is “Anti-Mormon” and shouldn’t be trusted 😉
Isn’t that exactly what almost all organizations and groups do? Buy the definition of how most people today use the word cult, that puts most of Society within that circle. You have people against any religious organization that dictates How one Should lead their lives. Yet The very ones preaching down that same vain are just as strict with their dogma and how we should live our lives. I do find that many religious organizations are not good at allowing their members to ask certain questions which I do believe can be harmful down the road. But like most atheist societies they didn’t even allow people to own books or ask questions that had anything to do with God.
@@sammiller4321 “Cult” has more than 1 definition. But here’s the primary definition… “a group or movement expressing a great and/or excessive devotion and/or dedication to someone or something.” So even Christianity is a cult in that definition. Mormonism matches up with every aspect of any definition of a cult
I was so obsessive about being pure that when I was a youth, I talked to the bishop about the whole "committing adultery in your heart" thing. I felt so guilty that I thought about sex. But looking back it's like "Of course I thought about it back then. It was puberty!"
That made him cool? To think that a punishment for thinking about a natural thought is absurd and people that claim they dont have any thoughts about sex outside of their marriage is likely lying, even a leader in the church.
Matthew 5:27-29 King James Version (KJV) Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
@@downy1202 Matthew 5:27-29 King James Version (KJV) Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
@@HrafnNordhri You should be able to find a good description of the BITE Model by googling the term. There are also books you can read such as by the author mentioned in this video.
I appreciate the work you put in to finding direct quotes from church leaders. It makes it so members can't deny the source and I find it to be extremely helpful
They are also Matthews words, Sherlock. Matthew 5:27-29 King James Version (KJV) Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
@@HrafnNordhri Matthew 5:27-29 King James Version (KJV) Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
@@Hometheaterfan what is the point you are trying to make? That verse has nothing to do with what I said. Ok here.. let's play a game. 1. Open your Bible to a random page. 2. Follow exactly what is written. 3. The last one to go to jail wins.
Matthew 5:27-29 King James Version (KJV) Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
As well as working through the B.I.T.E. model I think you should show how people are gradually indoctrinated. First, parents indoctrinating children, then how "new" converts are gradually indoctrinated. That can help people see the warning signs in advance.
It's was funny to me that after nine eleven, people at church were talking about Islam. They were saying it's horrible how they indoctrinate their children, and I would say but it's not horrible how you indoctrinate yours. People at church didn't love me 🤣
@@learnhope7895 Matthew 5:27-29 King James Version (KJV) Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Matthew 5:27-29 King James Version (KJV) Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
@@learnhope7895 Matthew 5:27-29 King James Version (KJV) Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
I got shunned from the church I grew up in over my sexuality. The pastor tried to force my parents to disown me with the threat of shunning them from the church too, but they refused. He wanted them to cut off all contact with me, including financial support, right after I’d enrolled in college. He wanted them to kick me out on the streets, literally. I’m forever thankful that my parents had the guts to stand up for me. I lost every other social connection I had overnight. But, I found new community with people who aren’t as flaky. I confronted the pastor about it recently, about eight years later. I got him to sit down for an interview. He really didn’t understand how using the threat of hellfire to drive a wedge between someone and their support system was controlling or manipulative. But, I didn’t let him wiggle out of it or excuse any of it. I got his side of things for the story I’m working on, but I told him that I used to look up to him and was immensely disappointed in him. I gotta say, it felt pretty great to watch him run out sobbing after that. He’s no longer an authority figure in my mind, just a sad man who can’t handle the weight of the impact of his messed up actions.
@@kylethedalek Matthew 5:27-29 King James Version (KJV) Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
I’ve always been bemused how the Mormon church will vehemently support or oppose something until it becomes inconvenient for them to do so and then it suddenly changes.
When I was still active LDS, I had A LOT of cognitive dissonance about the idea of cults. I believed that groups like The Church of Scientology and Jehovah's Witnesses were cults but the LDS Church wasn't, even though the three groups are all incredibly similar in terms of things like information control, sexual control, dietary restrictions, shaming, disowning people who leave the group, etc. I justified it at the time by thinking "sure, the church has some intense and strict teachings and practices, but it's ok because it's the one true church." Ummmmm, yeah Past Me, it's a fucking cult.
Sexual feelings? I think they know most people can't suppress that. It's just an excellent way to make people dependent because of induced shame and guilt.
Right, like what Dr. Darrel Ray says in "The God Virus." Make people feel super guilty for something they're almost guaranteed to do anyway, which will keep them coming back to the church/organization for forgiveness. Interesting idea. I don't know if it even has to be intentional to work this way. I would expect no.
I know jesus lives sin is a sin and the thuth is in the scriptures the word of god .any religion should be a.personal piritual and individual relationship with god and jesus who died for our sins means the atonment the sacrifice of jesus clean us and help us to live with out shame and guilt if you dont have a tesimony then ypu have not convert your life jet thrue values and principles that protect you from sin but from abortion deseases adictions unwanted pregnancies promiscuity betrail etc etc and the word of wisdom should be seen as a proteccion from adiccion and to be healthy. The garments the temple etc are things we deside to practice as we decide to be a remember of the church of jesuschrist the covenant we deside to make with god we deside to live the gospel with faith obedience and all should be testified in our mind heart and soul after search study practice as a desicion of our style of life but because we receive a personal revelation of evething first as we PRAY im a convert i know the church is perfect and the gospel of jesuschrist is true not the members .
Matthew 5:27-29 King James Version (KJV) Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
It's actually not uncommon for cult leaders to heavily restrict the sexual activities of their members, while indulging in large amounts of sexual activities themselves. It's often not even so much about the sexual pleasure for them as it is about power, with sexual excess for them and restrictions for their followers just being one more means of exercising their power.
My bishop would ask me extremely uncomfortable questions about chastity, he would go into extreme detail. It made me so uncomfortable I stopped going to church. I was 16.
Moses had a more comprehensive set of commandments that he smashed before bringing diwn the ten cimmandments. I'm pretty sure the original one had something like: "Thou shalt licketh it before thou sticketh it."
I think it also had something to the effect of "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife...unless thy neighbor's wife is scorching hot and thou hast a clear shot of her rockin' little bod through the bathroom-window. Then thou can not covet enough!!!"
Interestingly enough, I totally missed the memo on no oral sex - in 1982 I was on my mission, and for some strange reason, it never came up in my interviews with my mission president. However, I do remember a few years later talking with a friend of my wife - she was married at the time and was told about the no oral sex policy. She basically told her bishop to mind his own business, in so many words.
@@donnavaughn9409 Did you and your friends of your generation even know about oral sex or even consider it a possibility? Maybe it never came up because the concept was "just so far out there"?
I am an OG and I left the church 20 plus years ago and I thoroughly enjoyed listening to you. I thoroughly enjoy the mindset of younger people today who are leaving the church. Your presentations are very well-thought-out and researched. Thank you!
I really like that you point out how sexually repressed that LDS church really is... They aren't allowed to do anything on their own, because every little thing is judged, controlled, and interviewed about.
This is what one person revealed that was said during their worthiness-interview... Bishop: Are you having any problems with masturbation? Teen: No problem at all. It's going great. How is it going for you?
Yes, some would contend that to do things properly, if you feel any pressure in your digestive tract, you should inquire of your local leaders as to whether the pressure might be caused by something solid, or merely a gas.
Matthew 5:27-29 King James Version (KJV) Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
"Filthy communications." Oh my. How does one even define that? Anyway, when I was a member somebody handed me a copy of "The Miracle of Forgiveness". That book is all about mind control and making you ashamed of your own sexuality and desires. I remember that there were so many stupid stories. There was one about a man who had a copy of a work of art from the Italian Renaissance hanging in his living room and because a woman was naked in the painting, it led him to cheat on his wife. Then there is the story where Kimball claims to have personally sat next to the manager of a "famous" rock and roll band once on an airplane, and during their conversation the manager says that they intentionally calculate their music to drive teenagers toward sex! These stories are ridiculous and vague. They lack context or a critical explanation as to why these events took place. I feel bad for anybody who has to go through the LDS Church's anti-sexual rhetoric and those who end up reading that book.
I had a "problem" as a teenager and I remember how much I felt like the most evil person in the world when I read that book. I completely forgot about that until this video.
No, the airplane incident was one recounted in detail (in a talk at Ricks College, if I remember correctly), and involved not Kimball, but Gene R. Cook, of the First Council of the Seventy. Anyone who knows even the FIRST thing about the "rock star" in question would immediately know that the whole thing was not only made up, but an extreme example of pure asinine nonsense. It could also be maybe an effective litmus test for stellar stupidity and gullibility . . . if someone sincerely believed that story, they would be very likely to believe practically anything imaginable.
Yeah, my wife is convinced that Spencer "NottheCEOofSpencer's" W. Kimball was sex crazed, and Dallin "Woody" h'Oaks is repressing his inner gay. Honestly, I could see it.
So, I grew up with a lot of mixed messages. I lived in the Bible Belt which pushes a lot of shame about sex, particularly outside of the bonds of marriage. But, I was raised as an Episcopalian, and the Episcopal Church highly rejects purity culture (that said, Episcopalians vary, of course, in their views, but the Church itself doesn't force things one way or the other). For example, when I was in my twenties, I was house sitting for my childhood priest and his wife when they went out of town. Before they left, his wife, literally said to me, "If you want to have a man over, that's fine, just wash the sheets." I have literally known these people since I was eight, and they have been like second parents to me.
After my parents got engaged, my dad went camping with my mom’s family. My dad and grandpa didn’t stay as long as everyone else because they had work and on their way back home my dad asked my grandpa what the church’s stance on oral was. 🤦🏼♀️ My grandpa is the LAST person I would ever ask a sexual question. My dad’s parents have always been so open about answering questions like that so it mystifies me why he chose my mom’s dad to ask. My mom and grandma (dad’s mom) have never let him live it down.
You know, it’s hard for me to see others around me who are still in the church. Some of the greatest people I’ve ever met, and it breaks my heart to know they are still following such a stifling system. It makes me want to reach out, but I value my friendships far more than I do being ‘right’ or pushing what makes me happy onto someone else. Just because it’s right for me doesn’t mean it’s right for everybody. Everybody flourishes in different environments, just like plants and animals do
I think you've got the right mind-set. Establish some boundaries, and if you ever feel like they're being crossed, then you have the right to address some issues. If anyone ever started pressuring me to come back to church, I might casually bring up topics like why did God choose a con-man of all people to restore the gospel, the many conflicting 1st-vision accounts, the rock in the hat, The Book of Abraham, polygamy & D&C 132, racism, anti-LGBT, women being 2nd-class citizens, etc. Boy, they had better never get me started!
The issue I had with The Miracle Of Forgiveness is that the whole first half tells you that almost everything you do is probably sinful and, when you’ve beaten yourself up for your sinful ways, the second half tells you that everything you DON’T do is probably sinful as well. What chance do any of us stand! To be fair, the laws of chastity are not unique to the LDS church. The same principles are, or were, key to almost every Christian denomination you could chose to mention, although many of them have become a little bit more relaxed in recent years. Puritanism probably being the most extreme, with Catholicism also being up there. With the exception of the Khlysty I can’t think of a single Christian-based religion that would encourage or advocate sex outside of marriage. Some still actively forbid it. I’m sorry to have to say it, but I can’t think of a single religion, ancient or modern, that wasn’t about mind and behaviour control in some way.
Inspiration "corn" is a conversation the church should make bishops have with members - when they're turning the disabled person at the meeting into an Inspiration "corn" star.
I’m glad you brought up D&C 132. That’s what broke my shelf. All I did was read the chapter. The later verses, that directly address and name Emma, were like a punch to the eye socket. That language is very obviously the language of an abusîve, controlling narcissistic man. That’s when I knew the church was a fraud.
No kidding. It was all "Emma, let thy Joseph take as many wives as his holiness desires, and if thou mutter even the slightest peep in objection, I shall have no choice but to destroy thee!" And people really believe this shit comes from God???
The Mormon Church also uses sex to sell the Idea of missionary work to young adult men. can't have sex unless you're married. Woman get raised thinking they have to marry a temple worthy male or such, meaning missionary men are made to seem more worthy as such. So woman are manipulated into being set up as some sort of sexual reward for men who serve missions. Men aren't as likely to get married as those that serve a mission, there's a limited amount of woman in the local area who are also in their church, so there's peer pressure to serve a mission with incentives being sex and marriage. This is abusive ideology for anyone growing up in it.
So much of what you have to say resonates with me. Since I was 14yo and Spencer W. Kimball, along with local church leaders, hammered and hammered the sin and shame and lack of worthiness for even THINKING about sex, let alone doing anything like passionate kissing, or "petting" or God forbid sexual intercourse. I was beginning to think for myself at this age, asking questions and wanting to understand. I wanted to fit in with my entirely Mormon community in Utah, but things also didn't gel for me in my own heart. My questions were viewed as apostate, as sinful, and I was treated like one of "those" kids that the other kids wouldn't associate with....because they'd bought into the entire Mormon culture. They used very cruel words and actions to show that I didn't belong if I dared to question and not toe the line. I became very much the person who questioned if it truly was Christ's church, how was this behavior not only tolerated but completely condoned and encouraged (and acted upon) by both the leaders and kids alike? I come from original pioneer stock, my parents are devout, so I've gone back and tried church again 3 or 4 times since I left it as a teenager, each time willing to be open minded and open hearted toward trying to feel what all my family and neighbors, and my few friends, all claimed to feel and know and understand. As long as I was talking the talk and doing the "things" that made me an "active" member all was good....I had friends, a social life, people acted like they cared about me, I had something of value to offer. But each. and. every. time. I stopped going to church or became inactive, the so-called "friends" would suddenly disappear and I'd be left alone again. I've lived in the same house in the same neighborhood for 30 years now. The neighbor hood has changed over the years, and at the moment most people keep to themselves, and most are non-LDS. But occasionally I'll have someone from the "ward" do something to make their little heart feel good about reaching out to the "inactive"....but if I'm not interested in church but express and interest in friendship, I get a polite positive response...then crickets. It's all so sanctimonious and holier-than-thou. A group of people I used to hang out with for about 10 years were all "good Mormons" and for a while I thought I'd found my people...we shared the same hobby, got together once a month or so to pursue the hobby together, and they seemed like they accepted me even though I was inactive. TEN. YEARS. I believed these people were my friends. Then I made a mistake...a big one. I lost my temper and yelled and ranted about how one of the friends had humiliated me. I used the F-bomb. Many times. I screwed up big time. I owned up to it, and I tried to apologize and make amends, MULTIPLE TIMES, to be humble and so sorry for lashing out with sincere sorrow and willingness to work on myself and do better. But you know what? Forgiveness isn't given when you question, when you make mistakes, when God forbid you say FU*K...it's a reason to ostracize and to ghost someone who never "really quite fit in anyway". So much for the Christ-like love, for fellowshipping, for caring for someone...if they aren't TBM (True Believing Mormons.) I could go on and on...but this is long enough. I'm just glad I've come across your videos....for the first time I don't feel crazy being in my head with my thoughts I've struggled with my entire life.
I have a HUGE issue with polygamy. I had an aunt who went to BYU in the sixties and met up with a student there and eventually joined a group that practiced it. It caused a sad rift in the family and the poor woman ended up living in squalor in a waterless, no electric double wide just south of Cedar City. She hade several children and one that died after a home-birth. The bunch of them moved to Independence MO and are still there. Some of her kids left the group but others remain. A bit off topic but still makes me 😢
the church’s stance on the lgbtqia+ community is so sad to me. i already left but my family is all still there, including three siblings who have come out (to me at least) as bisexual. one of them is planning on leaving when she moves out but the other two are entrenched in it and it makes me really sad.
Right: sexual feelings have one purpose, and that is to make babies for Jesus. This is very similar to conservative Christian churches and certainly true of the Catholic Church in which I was raised. Such a teaching also ignores reality. Women past menopause still like sex and , and many species of animal perform sexual acts that cannot result in reproduction. In Catholicism this high standaard ensures control over the believer: "You are young and healthy and you will sin again and again and endanger your soul, so you must repent and be absolved again and again, and for that you need the Church." Yes, yes, of course, irresponsible sexual acts can do damage, but these are few compared to the many harmless acts that get the label of deadly sin.
When this was spoken about in the small ranching ward I was attending at the time, the poor bishop with the obligation of delivering that oral sex message made him stammer and blush so deeply I remembered it happening. Exmo here
I picked up on a leftover LDS phrase: sexual preference, which implies attraction to be like an ice cream flavor. Upon reflection, it does not resemble a chocolate-over-strawberry affinity, more how we're built, our orientation, how our software processes stimuli. Imagine instructing a cis-het [straight] person to change their "sexual preference" and suddenly the misnomer gets the sharp focus it deserves. I'm still deconstructing my religious indoctrination 35 years later. I got married in the SLC temple early in 1982 & the temple president himself spoke to us, declaring oral sex as disrespectful & depraved -- added much weight to my shelf of belief -- and the cultish temple ordinances later broke it completely that day. Great episode, Lexington.
Maybe, but there is a benefit if you use prefrence in a modern context. Orientations can sometimes overily imply that sexuality is like a block. You can potentially use prefrence to discuss the idea of less block type reasons for why people are attracted to some people and yet represent that is part of their attraction.they may be under a block but they arent just a block
I couldn't agree more. Sexually isn't like choosing a flavor. Especially when I was an active card carrying member, I felt broken. I would say I'm not a bad apple, I'm a perfectly good orange. I'm just different. I had almost the same experience with leadership, except it was in a recommend interview and I'm a woman. My bishop asked me if I performed oral with my husband. Mind you I was twenty two. He told me that it was a filthy and impure practice. I laughed. I said to him. For your sake I'm not going to answer that, because if I do you will be laying in your bed thinking about what goes on in mine and not what goes on in yours. By the way how where and when I touch kiss and caress my husband is none of your business. It's a voyeuristic question. He came to me later and said I never asked that question again
@@runenorderhaug7646 Hence, the terms bisexual or omnisexual to indicate a range of attraction. Note the context of how church leaders use "preference" to denigrate our existence, disparaging & minimizing LGBTQIA as though they can change their attraction, referring members to supposed reparative therapies & even administered electroshock therapy at BYU to "afflicted" students. Within the last 5 years, Apostle David Bednar claimed that there were no homosexual church members, attempting yet again to minimize sexual attraction as a major component of a person. The regressive context has been horrible, it emboldened parents to kick teens out of their home & contributed -- possibly caused -- many suicides.
I feel like my sexuality has become much healthier since leaving the church and doing 🌽 professionally. There is nothing inherently wrong or bad about sex. The value and meaning of it should be left up to each person to find what they like and want to do. But the restrictions on sex are one of the most controlled things that the church does and I hate it!
Behold, thus, in the For the Strength of Youth pamphlet, saith the Lord: "Thou shalt not commit Onanism with thyself, yea, verily thou shalt not polish thine own shaft in the quiver of thy pants."
I have moved beyond anger towards the church since leaving two years ago i have been able to process a lot and luckily because of where I live the church has left me and my family alone, respecting our wishes. However, the church's stance and teachings on sexuality and their multiple failures to adequately address this topic CORRECTLY before marriage is one thing that still angers me immensely. It has ruined so many marriages and has even ruined many lives, whether they be homosexuals or heterosexuals. Keep fighting the good fight Lexi You're doing a great service to many. Also you mentioned "the first presidency has INTERPRETED that oral sex is unholy" uh, just a bunch of old white men INTERPRETED, who is to say their "interpretation" is wrong? This is where i lose it with these leaders. Are they speaking for god or as a man? We know those waters can get real mucky. Nobody knows. It's all bullshit. Lexi, can you please make sure you put all these in depth videos in a playlist for the BITE model so they are all in one place. makes sharing them with members on the fence much easier. Thanks
I find it suspicious that there's no mention of teaching consent (even within a church approved marriage). Of course, if they teach consent, then they can't keep victim blaming. Teaching consent could also be too empowering and undermining the whole "submit to priesthood authority" shtick.
I had a religion teacher (first year) at BYU in the mid- 80's who was a SP in southern California when the new recommend question was introduced. He talked about the failures of this question. Invariably, the times when a wife would have concern about a certain act or practice the husband never shared the same concern. There was no guidance on what to do at that point. Also, a number of bishops came forward at an area leadership conference confessing that they were excluding that specific question from their temple recommend interviews because they didn't feel comfortable with it. This yet another ill conceived policy from the first presidency became a shelf item for me. Interestingly, 15 years after that questions was removed from the handbook, a SP in Utah valley held a must attend Saturday night fireside warning couples that he would not be giving recommends to couples engaging in BJs.
Former cult member also obsessed with cults, especially LDS because it's easier to trace my "quirks" to my indoctrination. You're giving me an outlet since my (never religious) husband has finally gotten to the point where he rolls his eyes and sighs that "Yeah, but you're not Mormon anymore so it doesn't matter anymore."
Best way to control the masses is to restrict their survival needs, like, food, sex and emotional / physical security (threats of hell or being disowned). These restrictions are common among most religious sects. What's interesting is, these organizations both Love Bomb people with giving them a sense of "specialness" but also unworthiness and the only way to balance the two is to follow our strict rules. Religion, pretty much all religion is problematic, unless it has a secular nature to it where you can follow all the rules or barely any and still be welcomed.
The same rules for everyone, gay or straight! In other news, all animals have to be vegetarians, and if the cats complain they can't survive on plant food, they're asking for extra special rights noone else gets, the sinful creatures
And coffee! Everyone or should I say almost everyone lies to their bishop to get a temple recommend! I know I did! I am not going to discuss my dietary habits, my sex life or other personal things with that bishop guy! Why should I , just give me my pass, I paid my money so just do it! Mmm my bad, I lied to him about that too! Lol
🤢🤢🤢 I couldn’t imagine not being friends with my friend because she’s bisexual 🤣🤣 image before we became friends going “hey jes !!! Soooo like before we become friends do you like women “ 🤣🤣🤣 I didn’t even know till months later when she said “ugh why is dating so hard 😩😩😩😩every girl I talk to we end up going no where” I’m so glad I told the church “bye bye bye” 🙄🙄🙄
One thing members dance around, and I've been told that by discussing it, I was to remember that the members are not perfect. If you look at the Word of Wisdom, it clearly states that meats "are to be used sparingly; And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine." I've not seen a Ward summer pic-nic without meat... ever. Also, since the obeying of the Word of Wisdom is a Temple Recommend question, and it was made a commandment by Brigham Young.. you'd think members would do more to follow it right? Nope. At my last Temple interview, I asked the Bishop what he was having for dinner.. Chicken was mentioned.. it was summertime. Bishop isn't following Word of Wisdom. At the follow up, the member of the Stake was having steak.. BBQ steak.. yum but also not living the Word of Wisdom. So if those who are judging my worthiness are in themselves not worthy... how does that work? Glad I left.
I could never understand how breaking part of the Word of Wisdom made you unworthy, but the other part was never even mentioned (and the Mormons I knew were BIG meateaters).
@@debbiefodor7088 yeah they like to only quote part of that. the "sparingly" part is always quoted.. the other part about when to eat meat.. not so much.
Oh and the all things in moderation, that should mean all LDS are reasonably thin. Um, no. I've noticed it's their favorite joke that food is the only vice they're allowed. Scripture is scripture. Unless it's inconvenient. Then just ignore it and it will go away.
@@alwaysathome So true. We've been in a heatwave and it is summer. Yet every week with my weekly lunch with a Mormon friend, I have to remind him he's broken the word of wisdom. I've heard every excuse and rationalization possible I think.
If "the brethren" fart, surely it smells like a rose garden, since they're such elevated super mortals and even semi-deity. They're so special they even had to convince "the Lord" that all the stuff applying to "blacks" and those of African descent should be changed and abandoned. Good thing they're there to keep "the Lord" on the right track, don't you think?
I often use the BITE model to explain the difference between LDS/JW churches and "normal" Protestant churches. And yeah, Spence is positively obsessed with it! I personally still own a copy of TMOF specifically because it's out of print and I'm a book collector.
I'm so glad my father left the LDS church when I was in my teens. I see your videos and the THOUSANDS of comments on your videos, and I will be forever grateful I escaped before I had to cope with the hugely damaging and controlling doctrines of the LDS cult. Thank you for helping those not fortunate enough to escape without help.
The ban on BJs had me laughing so hard! 🤣 I came into the church as a convert and well, I knew a few things 😎 So my husbands, both members, were not so sad about a few things that "went down" in the bedroom... Now I imagine them having to fess up to it in their temple recommend interviews and coming home to tell me that we "had to repent and b*** no more" or we wouldn't get our recommend renewed 🙈
I never understood why it was so terrible for people to be intimate before marriage. The Mormon church encourages people to be married in the temple, but a civil marriage is still recognized as a marriage. So a couple could get married by a female civil celebrant and it would be recognized as a legal marriage by the Mormon church, so long as a legal marriage certificate was signed. Even as a teenager, I could not understand why 'intimacy' was condemned before any sort of legal marriage, but then okay as soon as someone said a few words and the couple signed their names on a piece of paper (their marriage certificate). There is nothing religious about a civil marriage performed by a non-religious celebrant, so why is 'intimacy' okay by the church after that? I asked a counsellor who worked for LDS Family Services this question once, and she just shrugged her shoulders (and this was when I was a believer).
It's actually nobody's business what people do with their own spouses in their own bedrooms! The rest of it I pretty much agree with the law of chastity! Have fun!
Yes, some would say that contending that "Mormon theology" is the real deal would be blasphemy, because the idea is that (a) the "anointed" ones have a direct pipeline to God for information they then distribute to the membership, but (b) God can't seem to make up his mind about lots of stuff, and keeps flip-flopping on so many issues and points of doctrine (does anyone need a list of examples?)--which would be contrary to MANY scriptures (even like Moroni 8:18), which state that God is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity.
Although some people consider adultery to be bad and the ten commandments clearly forbid it, I do think that there needs to be a different way of teaching about sex in all sects if Christianity and not just Mormonism. Having grown Christian myself and used to believe that pre-marital sex was a complete no-no, I began to question that idea over time and realized that this is complete nonsense. Sex and reproduction is completely normal for all species that reside on planet Earth. With animals like insects, birds, foxes, horses, turtles, fish, dogs, and deer, there's no god telling them that pro-creating is wrong. It's natural, and that same should apply to humans. I have always thought that if the church stayed out of people's lives and not insisted on how people should think and live (not just Mormonism but all religious organizations) and made their teachings a bit simpler and was able to teach based off fact vs myth, then i think there will be less controversy and more understanding between the church and it's followers rather then telling people to live by this pseudoscientific, fear-inducing mindset.
I believe the "revelation" regarding polygamy occurred about the same time the United States declared that Utah could not become a state as long as polygamy was an accepted practice.
You are correct. It's even in the D&C prior to the mid 90's. I no longer have my original BoM to look, but in 1995 I remember reading the letter from the Secretary of State to the Prophet and the Prophet's letter to the men of the Church in the D&C. Might even still be there 🤷
The church said, "It's ok to be gay just not a practicing gay!" My reply was, "Bishop it's ok to be straight just not a practicing straight!" Bishop responded, "That does not make any since!" My reply, "Neither does yours!"
I was apart of the church and converted but they are way too strict. No drinking tea, coffee etc. Me being African American I had a racist experience that made me leave and not too many women gave me the time of day I guess because of how black people were viewed as a curse back in the day. So, dating outside of my race was a little different.
I was newly married when that oral sex proclamation came out needless to say my wife told them it was none of their business and then nine months later they changed it. As if it never happened
Wtf? So they thought that having no attraction to anyone (arguably ace), and incontinence were sins?! And likely still think that today? So you can't lust after anyone because that's a sin, but you also can't not like anyone, because that's also a sin? Wtaf? And incontinence?! Really?! Assuming I heard that right, that's literally not something you can control, it just happens. Moms, older people, people with any number of conditions could all have incontinence and that's considered a sin/sinful????
Good breakdown! Cornography can be terribly damaging to women and children. But if it was just consenting adults with no violence or misogyny...It would be fine.
To @Darronsanderson I say: "The Lord created man and woman and filled their bodies with hormones to encourage them, nay to drive them wild with lust, that they might be fruitful and multiply.
Saying "you can't prove this church is a cult by using sources outside the church" is mad culty behavior.
that logic makes zero sense, do they hope people dont see how biased that would be?
Amway logic.
Fear of knowledge outside of church doctrine is the first inculcation of the young.
It's ironic that Mormons will say they're not in a cult, but automatically dismiss all outside information that challenges their organization.
Yes absolutely! Which is why their leaders strictly forbid the members from going to any other sources (like the internet) about the religion. They beat it into the members’ heads that any literature about them that they don’t teach is “Anti-Mormon” and shouldn’t be trusted 😉
@@nsasupporter7557 Hence, Mormonism is a cult.
Testify!
Isn’t that exactly what almost all organizations and groups do? Buy the definition of how most people today use the word cult, that puts most of Society within that circle. You have people against any religious organization that dictates How one Should lead their lives. Yet The very ones preaching down that same vain are just as strict with their dogma and how we should live our lives. I do find that many religious organizations are not good at allowing their members to ask certain questions which I do believe can be harmful down the road. But like most atheist societies they didn’t even allow people to own books or ask questions that had anything to do with God.
@@sammiller4321 “Cult” has more than 1 definition. But here’s the primary definition… “a group or movement expressing a great and/or excessive devotion and/or dedication to someone or something.” So even Christianity is a cult in that definition. Mormonism matches up with every aspect of any definition of a cult
I was so obsessive about being pure that when I was a youth, I talked to the bishop about the whole "committing adultery in your heart" thing. I felt so guilty that I thought about sex. But looking back it's like "Of course I thought about it back then. It was puberty!"
My bishop was cool though. He basically told me I was okay.
That made him cool? To think that a punishment for thinking about a natural thought is absurd and people that claim they dont have any thoughts about sex outside of their marriage is likely lying, even a leader in the church.
No wonder most of their missionaries seem so effeminate. They deny themselves of their natural testosterone.
Matthew 5:27-29 King James Version (KJV)
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
@@downy1202 Matthew 5:27-29 King James Version (KJV)
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
I always love BITE analysis of the Mormon church. It helps shut up the "But what if it's true?" voice that pops up in my head every so often
I hate that voice. It never does go away completely.
is there a link I can use to go learn about BITE?
@@HrafnNordhri You should be able to find a good description of the BITE Model by googling the term. There are also books you can read such as by the author mentioned in this video.
@@amytheshihtzumom Thanks! I actually did find some info on it, I just forgot to update here. :)
It feels like I have to completely rewire my brain before it goes away 🥲
I appreciate the work you put in to finding direct quotes from church leaders. It makes it so members can't deny the source and I find it to be extremely helpful
Members here still find a way to dodge it. Everything from "we're not perfect" to "I think that's out of context"
They are also Matthews words, Sherlock. Matthew 5:27-29 King James Version (KJV)
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
@@HrafnNordhri Matthew 5:27-29 King James Version (KJV)
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
@@Hometheaterfan what is the point you are trying to make? That verse has nothing to do with what I said. Ok here.. let's play a game. 1. Open your Bible to a random page. 2. Follow exactly what is written. 3. The last one to go to jail wins.
context is important. @@HrafnNordhri
Oh man, I remember ALL of this. I'm SO glad I left.
Words cannot describe how much I hate this cult. There’s nothing I want more than to destroy it and see it fall
Matthew 5:27-29 King James Version (KJV)
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
As well as working through the B.I.T.E. model I think you should show how people are gradually indoctrinated. First, parents indoctrinating children, then how "new" converts are gradually indoctrinated. That can help people see the warning signs in advance.
It's was funny to me that after nine eleven, people at church were talking about Islam. They were saying it's horrible how they indoctrinate their children, and I would say but it's not horrible how you indoctrinate yours. People at church didn't love me 🤣
@@learnhope7895 Matthew 5:27-29 King James Version (KJV)
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Matthew 5:27-29 King James Version (KJV)
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
@@learnhope7895 Matthew 5:27-29 King James Version (KJV)
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
@@Hometheaterfan Okay so what's your point?
I got shunned from the church I grew up in over my sexuality. The pastor tried to force my parents to disown me with the threat of shunning them from the church too, but they refused. He wanted them to cut off all contact with me, including financial support, right after I’d enrolled in college. He wanted them to kick me out on the streets, literally.
I’m forever thankful that my parents had the guts to stand up for me. I lost every other social connection I had overnight. But, I found new community with people who aren’t as flaky.
I confronted the pastor about it recently, about eight years later. I got him to sit down for an interview. He really didn’t understand how using the threat of hellfire to drive a wedge between someone and their support system was controlling or manipulative. But, I didn’t let him wiggle out of it or excuse any of it. I got his side of things for the story I’m working on, but I told him that I used to look up to him and was immensely disappointed in him.
I gotta say, it felt pretty great to watch him run out sobbing after that. He’s no longer an authority figure in my mind, just a sad man who can’t handle the weight of the impact of his messed up actions.
The pastor chose the easy way out - cry and run to the nursery.
@@MrBilgeyI'm so glad you had the opportunity to sit down and let him know the fallout from his actions. I'm so glad your family supported you!
Dam what religion was this? Your pastor seems so judgemental. Sticking his nosy into someone else business that is crazy.
HJAHAHA NOT THE LDS CHURCH ...THEY DON;T HAVE PASTORS.... ARE YOU LYING?
Show me where The Church of Jesus Christ approves of and or encourages "shunning" anyone
I’m grateful this controlling nonsense is being dragged into the light.
Words cannot describe how much I hate this cult. I’m gonna be doing what Exmo Lex is doing soon too
I don’t see how all of it is bad?
@@kylethedalek Matthew 5:27-29 King James Version (KJV)
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
@@Hometheaterfan If I make myself unattractive by not bathing or brushing and wearing Eskimo clothing, this will help others not to sin.
@@nanoparticle5988 omg- Eskimo Skin 8s hot! 🔥
I’ve always been bemused how the Mormon church will vehemently support or oppose something until it becomes inconvenient for them to do so and then it suddenly changes.
Inconvenient, or profitable.
When I was still active LDS, I had A LOT of cognitive dissonance about the idea of cults. I believed that groups like The Church of Scientology and Jehovah's Witnesses were cults but the LDS Church wasn't, even though the three groups are all incredibly similar in terms of things like information control, sexual control, dietary restrictions, shaming, disowning people who leave the group, etc. I justified it at the time by thinking "sure, the church has some intense and strict teachings and practices, but it's ok because it's the one true church." Ummmmm, yeah Past Me, it's a fucking cult.
I did the same when I was a Catholic
I did the same as a young Muslim!
@@debbieescobar6267hello im also an excatholic.
Sexuality is controlled, unless you are Joseph Smith.
Sexual feelings? I think they know most people can't suppress that. It's just an excellent way to make people dependent because of induced shame and guilt.
Right, like what Dr. Darrel Ray says in "The God Virus." Make people feel super guilty for something they're almost guaranteed to do anyway, which will keep them coming back to the church/organization for forgiveness. Interesting idea. I don't know if it even has to be intentional to work this way. I would expect no.
I know jesus lives sin is a sin and the thuth is in the scriptures the word of god .any religion should be a.personal piritual and individual relationship with god and jesus who died for our sins means the atonment the sacrifice of jesus clean us and help us to live with out shame and guilt if you dont have a tesimony then ypu have not convert your life jet thrue values and principles that protect you from sin but from abortion deseases adictions unwanted pregnancies promiscuity betrail etc etc and the word of wisdom should be seen as a proteccion from adiccion and to be healthy. The garments the temple etc are things we deside to practice as we decide to be a remember of the church of jesuschrist the covenant we deside to make with god we deside to live the gospel with faith obedience and all should be testified in our mind heart and soul after search study practice as a desicion of our style of life but because we receive a personal revelation of evething first as we PRAY im a convert i know the church is perfect and the gospel of jesuschrist is true not the members .
Matthew 5:27-29 King James Version (KJV)
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
By her logic all religions are cults she's dam athiist
“As a person who has anxiety… I always have anxiety.”
I felt this in the core of my being
‘If it worries you, then avoid it’ aka how to feed an anxiety disorder
I know! Which means people that tend to have a personality that's carefree get to do more stuff. Totally not fair.
😂
My bishop told me “ don’t ever quote me on this … but it’s normal to experience sexual attraction “ .
What’s hilarious is when you ask questions and they basically tell you to “shut up!” Lol
It turns out that is essential.
Stopppp 😂
A bishop who knows something about actual human behavior? Wow!
So then, what is their stance on Asexuality?
It's actually not uncommon for cult leaders to heavily restrict the sexual activities of their members, while indulging in large amounts of sexual activities themselves. It's often not even so much about the sexual pleasure for them as it is about power, with sexual excess for them and restrictions for their followers just being one more means of exercising their power.
My bishop would ask me extremely uncomfortable questions about chastity, he would go into extreme detail. It made me so uncomfortable I stopped going to church. I was 16.
Moses had a more comprehensive set of commandments that he smashed before bringing diwn the ten cimmandments. I'm pretty sure the original one had something like: "Thou shalt licketh it before thou sticketh it."
"I give you these fifteen,*drops one tablet* I mean ten commandments." That movie is a gem.
I think it also had something to the effect of "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife...unless thy neighbor's wife is scorching hot and thou hast a clear shot of her rockin' little bod through the bathroom-window. Then thou can not covet enough!!!"
Interestingly enough, I totally missed the memo on no oral sex - in 1982 I was on my mission, and for some strange reason, it never came up in my interviews with my mission president. However, I do remember a few years later talking with a friend of my wife - she was married at the time and was told about the no oral sex policy. She basically told her bishop to mind his own business, in so many words.
I've been married in the temple, and that has never come up, I'm 70 years old and none of my friends have ever had a bishop bring that up.
@@donnavaughn9409 Did you and your friends of your generation even know about oral sex or even consider it a possibility? Maybe it never came up because the concept was "just so far out there"?
Lex, I’m not just gay, I’m gaaaaayyyyyy 😂😂🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
I am an OG and I left the church 20 plus years ago and I thoroughly enjoyed listening to you. I thoroughly enjoy the mindset of younger people today who are leaving the church. Your presentations are very well-thought-out and researched. Thank you!
I really like that you point out how sexually repressed that LDS church really is...
They aren't allowed to do anything on their own, because every little thing is judged, controlled, and interviewed about.
This is what one person revealed that was said during their worthiness-interview...
Bishop: Are you having any problems with masturbation?
Teen: No problem at all. It's going great. How is it going for you?
Yes, some would contend that to do things properly, if you feel any pressure in your digestive tract, you should inquire of your local leaders as to whether the pressure might be caused by something solid, or merely a gas.
Matthew 5:27-29 King James Version (KJV)
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
@@HometheaterfanAKA “do not cheat” ✨nothing else!
Thankfully I figured wearing the funny looking underwear was enough and the rest was our business. 😸
"Filthy communications." Oh my. How does one even define that? Anyway, when I was a member somebody handed me a copy of "The Miracle of Forgiveness". That book is all about mind control and making you ashamed of your own sexuality and desires. I remember that there were so many stupid stories. There was one about a man who had a copy of a work of art from the Italian Renaissance hanging in his living room and because a woman was naked in the painting, it led him to cheat on his wife. Then there is the story where Kimball claims to have personally sat next to the manager of a "famous" rock and roll band once on an airplane, and during their conversation the manager says that they intentionally calculate their music to drive teenagers toward sex! These stories are ridiculous and vague. They lack context or a critical explanation as to why these events took place. I feel bad for anybody who has to go through the LDS Church's anti-sexual rhetoric and those who end up reading that book.
I had a "problem" as a teenager and I remember how much I felt like the most evil person in the world when I read that book. I completely forgot about that until this video.
No, the airplane incident was one recounted in detail (in a talk at Ricks College, if I remember correctly), and involved not Kimball, but Gene R. Cook, of the First Council of the Seventy. Anyone who knows even the FIRST thing about the "rock star" in question would immediately know that the whole thing was not only made up, but an extreme example of pure asinine nonsense. It could also be maybe an effective litmus test for stellar stupidity and gullibility . . . if someone sincerely believed that story, they would be very likely to believe practically anything imaginable.
I remember the rockstar story. Lmao
Spencer Kimball? YIKES!
Yeah, my wife is convinced that Spencer "NottheCEOofSpencer's" W. Kimball was sex crazed, and Dallin "Woody" h'Oaks is repressing his inner gay.
Honestly, I could see it.
Comment for the algorithm! I love your content. Thanks for helping us al deconstruct! Keep up the great work, Lexi!
So, I grew up with a lot of mixed messages. I lived in the Bible Belt which pushes a lot of shame about sex, particularly outside of the bonds of marriage. But, I was raised as an Episcopalian, and the Episcopal Church highly rejects purity culture (that said, Episcopalians vary, of course, in their views, but the Church itself doesn't force things one way or the other). For example, when I was in my twenties, I was house sitting for my childhood priest and his wife when they went out of town. Before they left, his wife, literally said to me, "If you want to have a man over, that's fine, just wash the sheets." I have literally known these people since I was eight, and they have been like second parents to me.
After my parents got engaged, my dad went camping with my mom’s family. My dad and grandpa didn’t stay as long as everyone else because they had work and on their way back home my dad asked my grandpa what the church’s stance on oral was. 🤦🏼♀️ My grandpa is the LAST person I would ever ask a sexual question. My dad’s parents have always been so open about answering questions like that so it mystifies me why he chose my mom’s dad to ask. My mom and grandma (dad’s mom) have never let him live it down.
He asked his father-in-law that question?? Awk-ward!!!
Like let it down in a fun way? Or a mean way?
Thanks! You are awesome! Keep up the great work!
You know, it’s hard for me to see others around me who are still in the church. Some of the greatest people I’ve ever met, and it breaks my heart to know they are still following such a stifling system. It makes me want to reach out, but I value my friendships far more than I do being ‘right’ or pushing what makes me happy onto someone else. Just because it’s right for me doesn’t mean it’s right for everybody. Everybody flourishes in different environments, just like plants and animals do
♥️♥️♥️
I think you've got the right mind-set. Establish some boundaries, and if you ever feel like they're being crossed, then you have the right to address some issues. If anyone ever started pressuring me to come back to church, I might casually bring up topics like why did God choose a con-man of all people to restore the gospel, the many conflicting 1st-vision accounts, the rock in the hat, The Book of Abraham, polygamy & D&C 132, racism, anti-LGBT, women being 2nd-class citizens, etc. Boy, they had better never get me started!
The issue I had with The Miracle Of Forgiveness is that the whole first half tells you that almost everything you do is probably sinful and, when you’ve beaten yourself up for your sinful ways, the second half tells you that everything you DON’T do is probably sinful as well. What chance do any of us stand!
To be fair, the laws of chastity are not unique to the LDS church. The same principles are, or were, key to almost every Christian denomination you could chose to mention, although many of them have become a little bit more relaxed in recent years. Puritanism probably being the most extreme, with Catholicism also being up there. With the exception of the Khlysty I can’t think of a single Christian-based religion that would encourage or advocate sex outside of marriage. Some still actively forbid it.
I’m sorry to have to say it, but I can’t think of a single religion, ancient or modern, that wasn’t about mind and behaviour control in some way.
Just to bring some ease, the author admitted he was too harsh with the book and it’s no longer being circulated.
Inspiration "corn" is a conversation the church should make bishops have with members - when they're turning the disabled person at the meeting into an Inspiration "corn" star.
I’m glad you brought up D&C 132. That’s what broke my shelf. All I did was read the chapter. The later verses, that directly address and name Emma, were like a punch to the eye socket. That language is very obviously the language of an abusîve, controlling narcissistic man. That’s when I knew the church was a fraud.
No kidding. It was all "Emma, let thy Joseph take as many wives as his holiness desires, and if thou mutter even the slightest peep in objection, I shall have no choice but to destroy thee!" And people really believe this shit comes from God???
@@mylesmarkson1686 and she probably wasn't allowed to leave him if she wanted to, right?
@@cindys9491 Good point. Can you imagine the uproar if Russell Nelson's wife were to leave him? That would NOT look good on The Church!
The Mormon Church also uses sex to sell the Idea of missionary work to young adult men.
can't have sex unless you're married.
Woman get raised thinking they have to marry a temple worthy male or such, meaning missionary men are made to seem more worthy as such.
So woman are manipulated into being set up as some sort of sexual reward for men who serve missions.
Men aren't as likely to get married as those that serve a mission, there's a limited amount of woman in the local area who are also in their church, so there's peer pressure to serve a mission with incentives being sex and marriage.
This is abusive ideology for anyone growing up in it.
So much of what you have to say resonates with me. Since I was 14yo and Spencer W. Kimball, along with local church leaders, hammered and hammered the sin and shame and lack of worthiness for even THINKING about sex, let alone doing anything like passionate kissing, or "petting" or God forbid sexual intercourse. I was beginning to think for myself at this age, asking questions and wanting to understand. I wanted to fit in with my entirely Mormon community in Utah, but things also didn't gel for me in my own heart. My questions were viewed as apostate, as sinful, and I was treated like one of "those" kids that the other kids wouldn't associate with....because they'd bought into the entire Mormon culture. They used very cruel words and actions to show that I didn't belong if I dared to question and not toe the line. I became very much the person who questioned if it truly was Christ's church, how was this behavior not only tolerated but completely condoned and encouraged (and acted upon) by both the leaders and kids alike?
I come from original pioneer stock, my parents are devout, so I've gone back and tried church again 3 or 4 times since I left it as a teenager, each time willing to be open minded and open hearted toward trying to feel what all my family and neighbors, and my few friends, all claimed to feel and know and understand. As long as I was talking the talk and doing the "things" that made me an "active" member all was good....I had friends, a social life, people acted like they cared about me, I had something of value to offer. But each. and. every. time. I stopped going to church or became inactive, the so-called "friends" would suddenly disappear and I'd be left alone again.
I've lived in the same house in the same neighborhood for 30 years now. The neighbor hood has changed over the years, and at the moment most people keep to themselves, and most are non-LDS. But occasionally I'll have someone from the "ward" do something to make their little heart feel good about reaching out to the "inactive"....but if I'm not interested in church but express and interest in friendship, I get a polite positive response...then crickets.
It's all so sanctimonious and holier-than-thou. A group of people I used to hang out with for about 10 years were all "good Mormons" and for a while I thought I'd found my people...we shared the same hobby, got together once a month or so to pursue the hobby together, and they seemed like they accepted me even though I was inactive. TEN. YEARS. I believed these people were my friends. Then I made a mistake...a big one. I lost my temper and yelled and ranted about how one of the friends had humiliated me. I used the F-bomb. Many times. I screwed up big time. I owned up to it, and I tried to apologize and make amends, MULTIPLE TIMES, to be humble and so sorry for lashing out with sincere sorrow and willingness to work on myself and do better. But you know what? Forgiveness isn't given when you question, when you make mistakes, when God forbid you say FU*K...it's a reason to ostracize and to ghost someone who never "really quite fit in anyway". So much for the Christ-like love, for fellowshipping, for caring for someone...if they aren't TBM (True Believing Mormons.) I could go on and on...but this is long enough. I'm just glad I've come across your videos....for the first time I don't feel crazy being in my head with my thoughts I've struggled with my entire life.
Worthiness interviews….omg because bishops determine this. My God.
Gross gross gross gross
Lexie you are turning into a wrecking ball for the church! Keep informing people!
If every sperm is sacred, why are so many wasted when a baby is conceived?
Good point, and the last I checked, the world isn't running out of humans.
I bet Spencer W Kimball would have excommunicated Joseph Smith and his flaming sword.
@Riverrstone: Now I'm imagining a "Celebrity Deathmatch" episode between SWK & JS!
I have a HUGE issue with polygamy. I had an aunt who went to BYU in the sixties and met up with a student there and eventually joined a group that practiced it. It caused a sad rift in the family and the poor woman ended up living in squalor in a waterless, no electric double wide just south of Cedar City. She hade several children and one that died after a home-birth. The bunch of them moved to Independence MO and are still there. Some of her kids left the group but others remain. A bit off topic but still makes me 😢
That is so sad. I am sorry to hear this
the church’s stance on the lgbtqia+ community is so sad to me. i already left but my family is all still there, including three siblings who have come out (to me at least) as bisexual. one of them is planning on leaving when she moves out but the other two are entrenched in it and it makes me really sad.
5:55-6:00 you made my day 😂
Right: sexual feelings have one purpose, and that is to make babies for Jesus. This is very similar to conservative Christian churches and certainly true of the Catholic Church in which I was raised. Such a teaching also ignores reality. Women past menopause still like sex and , and many species of animal perform sexual acts that cannot result in reproduction. In Catholicism this high standaard ensures control over the believer: "You are young and healthy and you will sin again and again and endanger your soul, so you must repent and be absolved again and again, and for that you need the Church." Yes, yes, of course, irresponsible sexual acts can do damage, but these are few compared to the many harmless acts that get the label of deadly sin.
When this was spoken about in the small ranching ward I was attending at the time, the poor bishop with the obligation of delivering that oral sex message made him stammer and blush so deeply I remembered it happening. Exmo here
I picked up on a leftover LDS phrase: sexual preference, which implies attraction to be like an ice cream flavor. Upon reflection, it does not resemble a chocolate-over-strawberry affinity, more how we're built, our orientation, how our software processes stimuli. Imagine instructing a cis-het [straight] person to change their "sexual preference" and suddenly the misnomer gets the sharp focus it deserves. I'm still deconstructing my religious indoctrination 35 years later.
I got married in the SLC temple early in 1982 & the temple president himself spoke to us, declaring oral sex as disrespectful & depraved -- added much weight to my shelf of belief -- and the cultish temple ordinances later broke it completely that day.
Great episode, Lexington.
Maybe, but there is a benefit if you use prefrence in a modern context. Orientations can sometimes overily imply that sexuality is like a block. You can potentially use prefrence to discuss the idea of less block type reasons for why people are attracted to some people and yet represent that is part of their attraction.they may be under a block but they arent just a block
I couldn't agree more. Sexually isn't like choosing a flavor. Especially when I was an active card carrying member, I felt broken. I would say I'm not a bad apple, I'm a perfectly good orange. I'm just different. I had almost the same experience with leadership, except it was in a recommend interview and I'm a woman. My bishop asked me if I performed oral with my husband. Mind you I was twenty two. He told me that it was a filthy and impure practice. I laughed. I said to him. For your sake I'm not going to answer that, because if I do you will be laying in your bed thinking about what goes on in mine and not what goes on in yours. By the way how where and when I touch kiss and caress my husband is none of your business. It's a voyeuristic question. He came to me later and said I never asked that question again
Damn autocorrect; it completed Lexi's name as Lexington -- very sorry!
@@palousetrance2823 Hey, maybe "Lex" is short for "Lexington". If I ever have a kid, that's what I'm gonna call her!
@@runenorderhaug7646 Hence, the terms bisexual or omnisexual to indicate a range of attraction.
Note the context of how church leaders use "preference" to denigrate our existence, disparaging & minimizing LGBTQIA as though they can change their attraction, referring members to supposed reparative therapies & even administered electroshock therapy at BYU to "afflicted" students.
Within the last 5 years, Apostle David Bednar claimed that there were no homosexual church members, attempting yet again to minimize sexual attraction as a major component of a person. The regressive context has been horrible, it emboldened parents to kick teens out of their home & contributed -- possibly caused -- many suicides.
4:56 my (very LDS) aunt thinks I’m queer because my friends are lol no that’s not how it works
I feel like my sexuality has become much healthier since leaving the church and doing 🌽 professionally. There is nothing inherently wrong or bad about sex. The value and meaning of it should be left up to each person to find what they like and want to do. But the restrictions on sex are one of the most controlled things that the church does and I hate it!
Weird. It’s like people don’t like having old men tell them what they can and can’t do in the bedroom with someone else
Excellent video. I love how you brought up the BITE Model as an objective way to define the characteristics of a cult.
Behold, thus, in the For the Strength of Youth pamphlet, saith the Lord: "Thou shalt not commit Onanism with thyself, yea, verily thou shalt not polish thine own shaft in the quiver of thy pants."
I have moved beyond anger towards the church since leaving two years ago i have been able to process a lot and luckily because of where I live the church has left me and my family alone, respecting our wishes. However, the church's stance and teachings on sexuality and their multiple failures to adequately address this topic CORRECTLY before marriage is one thing that still angers me immensely. It has ruined so many marriages and has even ruined many lives, whether they be homosexuals or heterosexuals. Keep fighting the good fight Lexi You're doing a great service to many.
Also you mentioned "the first presidency has INTERPRETED that oral sex is unholy" uh, just a bunch of old white men INTERPRETED, who is to say their "interpretation" is wrong? This is where i lose it with these leaders. Are they speaking for god or as a man? We know those waters can get real mucky. Nobody knows. It's all bullshit.
Lexi, can you please make sure you put all these in depth videos in a playlist for the BITE model so they are all in one place. makes sharing them with members on the fence much easier. Thanks
I find it suspicious that there's no mention of teaching consent (even within a church approved marriage). Of course, if they teach consent, then they can't keep victim blaming. Teaching consent could also be too empowering and undermining the whole "submit to priesthood authority" shtick.
...So based on the Law of Chastity, it sounds like Joseph Smith would most definitely NOT qualify for a temple recommend.
I had a religion teacher (first year) at BYU in the mid- 80's who was a SP in southern California when the new recommend question was introduced. He talked about the failures of this question. Invariably, the times when a wife would have concern about a certain act or practice the husband never shared the same concern. There was no guidance on what to do at that point. Also, a number of bishops came forward at an area leadership conference confessing that they were excluding that specific question from their temple recommend interviews because they didn't feel comfortable with it. This yet another ill conceived policy from the first presidency became a shelf item for me.
Interestingly, 15 years after that questions was removed from the handbook, a SP in Utah valley held a must attend Saturday night fireside warning couples that he would not be giving recommends to couples engaging in BJs.
Former cult member also obsessed with cults, especially LDS because it's easier to trace my "quirks" to my indoctrination. You're giving me an outlet since my (never religious) husband has finally gotten to the point where he rolls his eyes and sighs that "Yeah, but you're not Mormon anymore so it doesn't matter anymore."
In Mathew 23, Jesus blasts Jewish leaders for "sitting in Moses' seat" and using that positional power to burden people. That's LDS inc.
Best way to control the masses is to restrict their survival needs, like, food, sex and emotional / physical security (threats of hell or being disowned). These restrictions are common among most religious sects. What's interesting is, these organizations both Love Bomb people with giving them a sense of "specialness" but also unworthiness and the only way to balance the two is to follow our strict rules. Religion, pretty much all religion is problematic, unless it has a secular nature to it where you can follow all the rules or barely any and still be welcomed.
Of course they only talk about fel tio, i.e., "between a man and his wife" and not c lingus.SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO sexist.
Exactly. Why do the LDS leaders talk a lot about sexual behaviour?
The same rules for everyone, gay or straight! In other news, all animals have to be vegetarians, and if the cats complain they can't survive on plant food, they're asking for extra special rights noone else gets, the sinful creatures
And coffee! Everyone or should I say almost everyone lies to their bishop to get a temple recommend! I know I did!
I am not going to discuss my dietary habits, my sex life or other personal things with that bishop guy! Why should I , just give me my pass, I paid my money so just do it!
Mmm my bad, I lied to him about that too!
Lol
🤢🤢🤢 I couldn’t imagine not being friends with my friend because she’s bisexual 🤣🤣 image before we became friends going “hey jes !!! Soooo like before we become friends do you like women “ 🤣🤣🤣 I didn’t even know till months later when she said “ugh why is dating so hard 😩😩😩😩every girl I talk to we end up going no where” I’m so glad I told the church “bye bye bye” 🙄🙄🙄
One thing members dance around, and I've been told that by discussing it, I was to remember that the members are not perfect. If you look at the Word of Wisdom, it clearly states that meats "are to be used sparingly; And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine." I've not seen a Ward summer pic-nic without meat... ever. Also, since the obeying of the Word of Wisdom is a Temple Recommend question, and it was made a commandment by Brigham Young.. you'd think members would do more to follow it right? Nope. At my last Temple interview, I asked the Bishop what he was having for dinner.. Chicken was mentioned.. it was summertime. Bishop isn't following Word of Wisdom. At the follow up, the member of the Stake was having steak.. BBQ steak.. yum but also not living the Word of Wisdom. So if those who are judging my worthiness are in themselves not worthy... how does that work? Glad I left.
I could never understand how breaking part of the Word of Wisdom made you unworthy, but the other part was never even mentioned (and the Mormons I knew were BIG meateaters).
@@debbiefodor7088 yeah they like to only quote part of that. the "sparingly" part is always quoted.. the other part about when to eat meat.. not so much.
Oh and the all things in moderation, that should mean all LDS are reasonably thin. Um, no. I've noticed it's their favorite joke that food is the only vice they're allowed.
Scripture is scripture.
Unless it's inconvenient.
Then just ignore it and it will go away.
@@alwaysathome So true. We've been in a heatwave and it is summer. Yet every week with my weekly lunch with a Mormon friend, I have to remind him he's broken the word of wisdom. I've heard every excuse and rationalization possible I think.
I visited my parents and walked in to hear them listening to Glenn Beck Ironically going over the BITE model.
WHAT HAHAHA
LOL, had to look up "zipper sparking". That led to the term "Provo Push", and the term I originally knew it as, "Levi Lovin". Gigglesnort.
I love this series and I look forward to the rest of the videos. Thanks for doing all that work, it's so helpful and healing!
Wait, incontinence is a sin?
If "the brethren" fart, surely it smells like a rose garden, since they're such elevated super mortals and even semi-deity. They're so special they even had to convince "the Lord" that all the stuff applying to "blacks" and those of African descent should be changed and abandoned. Good thing they're there to keep "the Lord" on the right track, don't you think?
I often use the BITE model to explain the difference between LDS/JW churches and "normal" Protestant churches. And yeah, Spence is positively obsessed with it! I personally still own a copy of TMOF specifically because it's out of print and I'm a book collector.
I'm so glad my father left the LDS church when I was in my teens. I see your videos and the THOUSANDS of comments on your videos, and I will be forever grateful I escaped before I had to cope with the hugely damaging and controlling doctrines of the LDS cult. Thank you for helping those not fortunate enough to escape without help.
Here from Mr Atheist 💓
Exmolex, where did you find the blurb about romance novels?
"SUPER-VANILLA" Lol!
I thought you were going to say, "SUPERVISED"!!! 🤣🤣🤣
😂
I thought you wrote PJ'S
A restriction of the garment policy
The ban on BJs had me laughing so hard! 🤣 I came into the church as a convert and well, I knew a few things 😎 So my husbands, both members, were not so sad about a few things that "went down" in the bedroom... Now I imagine them having to fess up to it in their temple recommend interviews and coming home to tell me that we "had to repent and b*** no more" or we wouldn't get our recommend renewed 🙈
I never understood why it was so terrible for people to be intimate before marriage. The Mormon church encourages people to be married in the temple, but a civil marriage is still recognized as a marriage. So a couple could get married by a female civil celebrant and it would be recognized as a legal marriage by the Mormon church, so long as a legal marriage certificate was signed. Even as a teenager, I could not understand why 'intimacy' was condemned before any sort of legal marriage, but then okay as soon as someone said a few words and the couple signed their names on a piece of paper (their marriage certificate). There is nothing religious about a civil marriage performed by a non-religious celebrant, so why is 'intimacy' okay by the church after that?
I asked a counsellor who worked for LDS Family Services this question once, and she just shrugged her shoulders (and this was when I was a believer).
I wish that candle🕯️ was in my budget, especially since I wanna get romantic with this LDS girl @ my school. She's so cute...
It's actually nobody's business what people do with their own spouses in their own bedrooms!
The rest of it I pretty much agree with the law of chastity! Have fun!
it's no one's business what two consenting people do, married or not.
Yes, some would say that contending that "Mormon theology" is the real deal would be blasphemy, because the idea is that (a) the "anointed" ones have a direct pipeline to God for information they then distribute to the membership, but (b) God can't seem to make up his mind about lots of stuff, and keeps flip-flopping on so many issues and points of doctrine (does anyone need a list of examples?)--which would be contrary to MANY scriptures (even like Moroni 8:18), which state that God is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity.
"God can't seem to make up his mind about lots of stuff" is great lol
I left at 20 as well, it's definitely a cult..
I'm really happy I got away from the LD$ Church.
Although some people consider adultery to be bad and the ten commandments clearly forbid it, I do think that there needs to be a different way of teaching about sex in all sects if Christianity and not just Mormonism. Having grown Christian myself and used to believe that pre-marital sex was a complete no-no, I began to question that idea over time and realized that this is complete nonsense. Sex and reproduction is completely normal for all species that reside on planet Earth. With animals like insects, birds, foxes, horses, turtles, fish, dogs, and deer, there's no god telling them that pro-creating is wrong. It's natural, and that same should apply to humans. I have always thought that if the church stayed out of people's lives and not insisted on how people should think and live (not just Mormonism but all religious organizations) and made their teachings a bit simpler and was able to teach based off fact vs myth, then i think there will be less controversy and more understanding between the church and it's followers rather then telling people to live by this pseudoscientific, fear-inducing mindset.
How would they know what goes on behind closed doors to know whether someone lied or not in their interview?
they rely on shame.
I believe the "revelation" regarding polygamy occurred about the same time the United States declared that Utah could not become a state as long as polygamy was an accepted practice.
You are correct. It's even in the D&C prior to the mid 90's. I no longer have my original BoM to look, but in 1995 I remember reading the letter from the Secretary of State to the Prophet and the Prophet's letter to the men of the Church in the D&C. Might even still be there 🤷
So... don't go through puberty?
you can go through puberty, you're just gonna be shamed for it.
Truth is so powerful
The church said, "It's ok to be gay just not a practicing gay!" My reply was, "Bishop it's ok to be straight just not a practicing straight!" Bishop responded, "That does not make any since!" My reply, "Neither does yours!"
@Exmo Lex love the Evanstar necklace!
I was apart of the church and converted but they are way too strict. No drinking tea, coffee etc. Me being African American I had a racist experience that made me leave and not too many women gave me the time of day I guess because of how black people were viewed as a curse back in the day. So, dating outside of my race was a little different.
I was newly married when that oral sex proclamation came out needless to say my wife told them it was none of their business and then nine months later they changed it. As if it never happened
Wtf? So they thought that having no attraction to anyone (arguably ace), and incontinence were sins?! And likely still think that today? So you can't lust after anyone because that's a sin, but you also can't not like anyone, because that's also a sin? Wtaf? And incontinence?! Really?! Assuming I heard that right, that's literally not something you can control, it just happens. Moms, older people, people with any number of conditions could all have incontinence and that's considered a sin/sinful????
Good breakdown! Cornography can be terribly damaging to women and children. But if it was just consenting adults with no violence or misogyny...It would be fine.
I object to “unnatural and impure”, but unholy is just another word for fun!
Love your podcasts honey thanx so much
Don't even get me started on the mess this religion did to me
To @Darronsanderson I say: "The Lord created man and woman and filled their bodies with hormones to encourage them, nay to drive them wild with lust, that they might be fruitful and multiply.
Corn...ography. 😆